Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos. I am Dan Valley coming
at you in advance of another twenty twenty four twenty
five MMA look Ahead. We're on to the Denver Nuggets.
So I got to speak with Adam Modes of DNVR
Sports of Lockdown, Nuggets of Coast at All City NBA
podcast with Tim Legler. Those guys are sickos. They're gonna
be ramping back up soon, he tells us later on
in the episode we get into all things Nuggets wanted
to discuss very quickly. We did record this. I think
it was like a day or two before Jamal Murray
signed his MAX extension four years about two hundred and
eight million. Adam Adaes actually reported himself on the d
NVR show. I think that day in the emergency podcast
that there's no options or anything on it, so just
the full four years. So he's under contracts for another
five years when you include next season. We didn't We
talked about the extension as if it wasn't done, but
we did discuss Jamal Murray in the terms of he's
just going to be a Nugget, not for only next season,
but just beyond. So but wanted to give a note
because while there are some notes about whether he's going
to get the extension, is he we didn't really talk
about whether he's worth it. I think I said, is
like the Nuggets have no other choice that they give
it to him. Why would this even be a debate?
I did ask him why it might have been taking
so long, so again recorded before that, But the rest
of the episode is all extremely GERMANE got Adam for
over an hour, so I think you're really going to
enjoy it. If you're new around these parts and you're
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whole nine. Anyone who can like, comment, help theago, love
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And with that, I take us to the Denver Nuggets
twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five NBA Season look Ahead
with the One and only Adam Modis. Adam, welcome back.
Thank you so much for coming back number one to
do the Denver Nuggets look Ahead with me. How are
you doing this year?
Speaker 2: Man? I'm doing great. Needed this offseason, I think more
than any other one. But you know, it's that time
where I'm ready to be back into the NBA, So
I'm excited.
Speaker 1: The Olympics didn't kind of mess with that at all, No.
Speaker 2: Because it felt so different from the NBA. It felt
like a whole separate thing. So it was fresh and
new and exciting. But the NBA I definitely needed, like
the four month break we got.
Speaker 1: I totally feel that from you. So the Nuggets lots
of stuff like kind of happened or feels like, there's
lots of stuff to talk about. So I have to
start off rip Piers. I think leading into free agency,
it became pretty clear that Kentavious called what Pope was
going to leave, or at least that seemed like the
most likely outcome. Where you still at all and I've
heard you talk about this a bunch, but were you
still at all surprised that Denver didn't even go though, Okay,
we'll pay him and we'll just figure this out later
if we're trying to cut cost route.
Speaker 2: Well, I would. I mean, surprise is the operative word
there for me. I wasn't surprised because I think I
have a pretty good sense of how of what Calvin
Booth in the front office's vision is and what things
they value. So I kind of assume that this was
going to happen, but I am surprised in that I
disagree with it. You know, I thought he was a guy.
The way you put it was great. I think the
second A brind concerns are real and in many ways valid,
and I don't think it's just financial and a lot
of people think it's just Cronky's wanting to cut money.
I don't think it's that. I do think it's flexibility
and the concern about what you could do going forward.
But my philosophy in the NBA is everyone thinks they
can see around the corner better than they actually can.
And I think you can only plan one year at
a time, and if you sign him and it's like
we have to get off of him or make maneuvers
next summer, so be it. That's just the way the
world works, that's the way the NBA works. It's not
going to be it would not have been more difficult
to do that try to maneuver under the second April
next summer, then it will be to try to build
a contender next summer. So to me, I think the
calculus was wrong on that. I think they were to
have been a better team with him this year, and
you just figured it out down the road.
Speaker 1: You you know, I'm gonna get there in a second.
So I have to talk about the Jamal Murray thing
first though. Sets the other sort of thing that's looming
over this. I've had him penciled in for just a
four year extension. I know you've kind of assumed that
that's coming. Is that still the expectation and what if
anything has gone into just this delay?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is the two hundred and ten
million dollars question. Why is it taking so long? And
I think that I think there's a couple of things.
I mean, let's not kid ourselves, Jamal Murray is now
injury prone. Like if we're going to start from the
top about concerns with him, some of them can be fair,
some of them can be speculative or banners of opinion.
But one that can't be is that he's just injury prone.
And the one big injury you could point to and
say could have happened to anybody, But now all the
subsequent ones, and even if you go back before that,
he always had little things that he was just banged up.
You know, missed five games here, missed seven games here.
So I think now as you set out to say
the best player in franchise history, Nikola Jokic, you want
to have him for forever. His entire career and his
prime will span the entirety of this extension that you're
likely to give Jamal. I think it's a fair question
to say, is he going to be healthy and motivated
for that period? And if not, then there's reason to
be concerned about it. And when you watch how injured
he was last year with things like cash strains, hamstring strains,
like soft tissue injuries, that you sit there and go,
come on, what is going like Zion Williams esque injuries
that make you concern for a player when you go
through those, and then you watch him go through two
months of not playing into Team Canada and all of
a sudden he doesn't look any better. I think it's
natural to say, like, what are we getting from Jamal
going forward? Is that a you know, what is his
motivation level? So part of me thinks that the team
likely wanted to give it the summer to kind of
evaluate him, his approach and different things. And there's likely,
though this has never been reported, this is my own opinion,
my own speculation, there's likely some of these nagging injuries
that the team and probably the ownership group wants to say,
let's just see what he looks like in September. Let's
just see if he actually has rehabbed properly from these
injuries and is healthy before handing out that contract. What
leverage do we have to lose at that point? He
still will almost certainly sign it if you give it
to him on September twenty ninth, the night before media Day,
he'll still sign it. So why don't we just give
it to that and see how he rehabs. That's my
hunch That's what I think is going and I think
the organization is probably uncomfortable giving him that extension, even
though they know they probably have to.
Speaker 1: Is there like any risk though not the word ruins
too strong, but like fracturing, then the relations, and then
there's also just the element of what is Denver's actual leverage,
because like Jamal Murray is in a vacuum, is Jamal
Murray max player debatable to the Nuggets and how valuable
he is to them? It's not really up for debate.
And so I guess that's why I'm most fascinated why
this is taking so long.
Speaker 2: Book.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, whatould the alternative even look like? Denver?
Speaker 2: I don't even think it's Denver doesn't have any leverage.
You're a hundred percent right, And it's I don't even
think it's anything that they have done, you know, to
position themselves necessarily. I just think it's in the NBA,
when you have players like this Brandon Ingraham, Andrew Wiggins,
guys who are not quite worthy of a MAX, but hey,
what else, what other option do you have? You kind
of have to give it to him. But what I
think there is is there is more risk and less risk,
and there was more risk in giving this to him
in June, you know, right the first day that they
could do it, than if they give it to him
September twenty ninth, because at least you give the opportunity
to see like does he pull a hamstring in September?
Does he blow out his knee in September? So it
might as well just be like, hey, this guy seems
to get hurt every time he ramps himself up, so
why don't we just ramp him up and give it
to him the last day to make sure, just to
mitigate our risk as much as we possibly can. And
that's my hunch about what's going on. I expect it
to get signed. I predicted this week. We're on Thursday,
so I don't I'm probably gonna be wrong on that,
but I do expect it before media day.
Speaker 1: Is it weird? And maybe not because how they prioritize
your suplexibility that we haven't heard any rumblings on an
Aaron Gordon extension. And the second part of that is
is it all concerning about like, well, okay, well, what's
going to happen with Aaron Gordon? Given how they viewed
the KCP situation, I think that you.
Speaker 2: Have to view those two together and look, we're gonna
find out, right. I think it's very realistic that Aaron
Gordon could be a player that they move on from
and the exact same scenario that you viewed KCP, especially
if this season you see a big year from Peyton
Watson and they say, hey, maybe maybe he is ready
to the degree Christian Brown was like, if you go
through the season, Christian Brown actually replaces KCP in a
way that you go that was actually good. He was
ready to go. I mean, this is Calvin boost theory, right,
He's going to be ready to go, and that's a
good You just swap one guy and for the other.
If that happens this year in Denver has a successful season,
whatever that means, do you go into next year and
I think you would be in bolden to say, well, okay,
now Peyton Watson can do the same thing for Aaron
Gordon allows us spend money elsewhere. So I think there
is a possibility of that. But what I would say is,
if you were ranking players in terms of their value
to what Denver does, KCP would have ranked fifth in
my opinion, maybe fourth. You could talk me into fourth,
but probably season maybe, yeah, for sure, Yeah, playoffs is probably,
You're probably almost certainly fifth. I think Aaron Gordon is
clearly third or fourth. I would say third, but fourth
is the lowest you would go. So to me, he
ranks higher in the priority list and I think more
likely to be extended, retained, or what have you. But
at the same time, when you go into a free agency,
teams can offer him more years, and Denver is obviously
going to be very concerned about their flexibility giving guys years.
So I think it is a concern.
Speaker 1: I will say the one thing that's working in their favors.
It does seem like everyone's getting very extension happy and
the market for just non stars is so turbulent. Maybe
a lot of people think this was a one summer blip.
I think it might be a couple summer blips, just
even based off some of the things we've seen since
the transaction. Tumult has slowed down, so that bodes well
for Denver unless it's just what we just we don't
even want to pay him, you know, beyond next season.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing about the Denver organization, And I
think this goes back to Tim Conley and now to
Calvin Booth. So I think there might be something structurally.
I mean, we know the kron Keys like a skeleton crew.
They like things to be as thin as possible. The
more people you high, and there's reason, there's pros and
cons to that. By the way, I know, it's like
easy to say, oh, that's just cheapness, and I think
it is motivated by that. But there are strengths to
having a smaller, tighter crew making decisions. But the teams
that seem to have more people there, especially that run
it well, more decision makers. There's people that specialize in
things like you're talking about, Okay, let's forget what we need,
our team needs, what's the market going to be in
a year or two from now based on everything that's happening.
And I think Denver has been bad at that, Like
some of the contracts they've offered, they haven't seen around
the corner as well as other teams have in terms of, well,
are we going to have leverage or aren't we based
on some of the indicators we see already. So I
think Denver probably honestly doesn't necessarily have an in depth
strategy there but I could be wrong.
Speaker 1: I've been asking everyone what their biggest storyline is that
they're tracking for the specific team, but for the Nuggets,
And I would love it if you have a different
opinion on this. We're going to talk about either. Is
it just like the development of the three core youngsters
at this point is particularly viewed against the backdrop of
KCP leaving.
Speaker 2: So I actually think that might be third for me.
So it's really important and I understand and this is
probably a semantic answer, but Number one to me is
Jamal Murray. Even last year Denver had was winning at
a sixty two win pace when Yokichen Murray played. The
truth is, we just don't know how many games he's
going to miss. He missed twenty three last year, no matter,
Denver won fifty seven games, a franchise record, and their
second best player missed twenty three games. So I look
at this and I go, I think Denver is actually
better than what we all were the very high on him.
I think we were appropriately high on them last year.
You get an injury to your second best player, he
misses a ton of time, and the team runs out
of gas and they end up coming up short in
the playoffs. But I think that on March tenth, out
of the All Star break, they're on a big win streak.
I was like, they are the favorite to win the title,
and they might have another sixteen and four run in them.
They were playing at that level. To me, all these
other things are important margins and of big margins. But
Jamal Murray's health, motivation, conditioning, and you know, consistency, to
me are by far more important than all the other
variables for Denver. So to me, that's number one. And
to be honest with you, I have no idea what
to expect from Jamal. Is he going to play? He's
always been bad in October and November? Is he going
to be good this year in ways that are meaningful?
And this is like, Look, his stock is at an
all time low, and I have to think that he
hears all the noise. He also ended last year, if
you recall by throwing a heat pack onto the floor.
I think his reputation not only in how he plays,
but I think also to some extent his character is
in question in ways that I hope and I would
expect him to say, Okay, I need to remind people
this year because at the moment, there's valid arguments that
I am the guy the haters think I am, and
not who I think I am.
Speaker 1: He's like, might be just one of the players that
have explored the most extreme peaks and valleys and this
past like year, eighteen months whatever. It might be a
perfect example. Where I was being asked to go on
podcast radio shows last year after they won the title.
Is Jamal Murray a top fifteen player? Was the question,
and now it's like, oh, man, like, should the Nuggets
even pay this guy?
Speaker 2: It's like, so, I think ESPN had him seventeenth last
year in the player rink, like really really high all,
you know, coming off of that incredible finals. I'm so
curious to see where ESPN has them this year. I'm
guessing it's like fortieth somewhere somewhere around there. And it's crazy, right,
like that you should he should be ascending as a player,
not dropping that far right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a fascinating way to frame it. I
think my biggest storyline for them is Michael Malone had
said I think it was his exit interview. I don't
think it was a random one where he mentions like
I need to do a better job of emerging from
the bunker basically of the regular season to play the
longer game. Is that actually gonna happen? I'm assuming we're
just referring to, you know, the staggering patterns in the
way when you look at the you know, after the
Julian Strother injuries, specifically, Denver Post had a great article
where they're looking at minute usage and how heavily the
Nuggets relied unlike their top seven guys, and just those
staggering patterns. You and I have talked about it a
bunch in years past. Is there potential for change here?
Even Zach Lowe kind of casually mentioned on his return
podcast that, like, you know, there's mumblings now that the
disconnect between the front office and the coaching staff is growing,
And I was like, that doesn't really square with what
Michael Malone said at the exit interview. So I'm just
I'm so confused by what is going on here.
Speaker 2: So, first of all, this is such a fascinating thing.
There's three ways I want to answer this to see
if I can remember all three. The first is, it
wasn't an exit interview. It was an unscheduled press conference
that was kind of bizarre when it happened, like why
are we doing a press conference? And the reason was,
you know, it had been reported at multiple places that
there was, you know, some tension behind the scenes. Josh Cronkey,
Calvin Booth, and Michael Malone come out again on a
press conference, and it was clearly a united front, right, like, Hey,
we're gonna come out here and show them that we're together.
So when Michael Malone says things like that, first of all,
I go, okay, Well, that was the point of the
press conference, right for everybody to kind of say, we
have to come together. We all made mistakes's let's show
a united front. Number two, there are personality types that
I think are good at wearing different masks, seeing different
perspectives and maybe having flexibility and core values and things
like that. Michael Malone is the opposite of that. Michael
Malone is a guy who is insanely principled and and
you know, really believes what he believes. And then number three,
Michael Malone is the son of a coach, Brendan Malone,
a very popular you know, he grew he's a lifer,
he grew up in the NBA, he grew up around
coaches and Michael Malone's first coaching job, he was fired
because DeMarcus Cousins got spiral meningitis. They were having a
good season, he gets sick, they go on a losing streak,
and he's fired. I think that has scarred Michael Malone
in ways that really texture all of his decision making,
which is to say, I need to play the long game.
Well what happens when we're five hundred in November? I
get fired? Like just I'm doing I'm doing a good
job over here, We're actually there's good indicators. But you
said this is what you needed. I did it, and
now I'm fired for it. And I think that's how
Michael Malone thinks, and that's why he will ride starters
and play veterans and do all these things, because at
least he can point to, hey, we were nine and
four in November, like you're not gonna fire me. Now
we're nine and four. You can't fire me at that moment.
Speaker 1: Is could there have been any element to that factoring
into the KCP walking where it's well we need to
take this, you know, as everyone's at the club out
of Michael Malone's bag, Like now you have no choice
but to play at least two of these young guys now,
because you can't not play the bench at all.
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent think that all of Michael Malone's
decisions as a coach are at least partially influenced, whether
consciously or subconsciously, by that factor. And I'll tell you
some crazy examples of this. I mean, one, we remember
Nikoli Joki took a year and a half before he
could start consistently for the Nuggets, which is, in hindsight
obviously an insane thing. But you even look at Christian
Brown comes in Davon Reach started over him for half
the year his rookie season when they needed somebody to
play in that position, and you look at it and go,
why on earth would you do that? Well, I think
there is a level of you know, you play a
rookie and lose like it's on you. So if you
kind of go the other way. So if you look
at Justin Holiday played last year, and Michael Malone when
he said and when you mentioned that show that you
show a United Front press conference. Again, I'm digesting every
single phrasing and every single word of this because you know,
I understand the different dynamics at play. One of the
things he said was, yes, I need to play some
of the other guys, but what options do I have?
Like I had to play, He's basically saying I had
to play Justin Holiday in the playoffs. I had to
because all I had was a rookie, you know, Peyton Watson,
who again, by the way, I think Peyton Watson clearly
the better option in that spot. But it's easy for
him to say and logical, I think for people to believe, well, yes,
you had to do it because just A Holladay has
ten years of experience and Peyton Watson has two thousand
minutes of experience and this is an elimination series, so yes,
you have to go out there. And I think that
is how he thinks. So now you take the training
wheels off, there is no Justin Holiday. I don't think
the KCP move was that necessarily, but I do think
when you look at the end of the roster Hunter Tyson,
Jalen Pickett, Ron Holmes, guys that are not going to play,
there are no options that are your break glass in
case of emergency options for Denver.
Speaker 1: So that's gonna be something then just to be what
what is his response to that, Like they've given him
no options to but like, is he going to figure
out away around that anyway? Type deal?
Speaker 2: One thousand percent. I mean, this is the thing is
there is no full proof method. And I think for
and I've said this a lot, I think Calvin Booth
is a very smart basketball mind with really great, great
perspective and opinions. But I do think he struggles with
the interpersonal dynamics of a person like Michael Malone. A
stubborn and by the way, Michael Malone's not an anomaly.
Most NBA coaches. You rise to that level through shrewd
thinking and being able to like, hey, you know, you
have the mind of a general, so being able.
Speaker 1: To knock on coach. But like that was just like
he just wouldn't adjust anything.
Speaker 2: Everyone thought Tibbs. I mean, you go through the list,
there's a lot of great coaches who are like, yeah,
you know what, it's my way, and you stay out
of the kitchen. Here, you give me the ingredients and
then get out of the kitchen. I think if I
look at it, you know there's a couple of things.
One I don't love the way Michael Malone has been
tied to his rotations. I know we're talking about that
late later. He plays his five man starters and four
four starters one bench guy more than anyone else, and
he plays zero starters or one's starter more than anyone else.
I think Denver's roster is gonna you're gonna have to
go away from that. But there's decisions like where do
you play Peyton Watson? His value, in my opinion, is
that he has the mobility of a guard in the
length of a forward. But if you play him at forward,
all of a sudden, like you've lost some of that advantage.
So do you play him there? Do you play DeAndre
Jordan any minutes? Do you play Russell Westbrook? And positions
that really make it fail? I mean, I look at
that and I go Russell Westbrook is so volatile. If
you're gonna believe in him working out in Denver, there's
a lot of variables that you think are gonna hit.
But it'd be very easy to sabotage that. If you
are trying to make Russell Westbrook fail as a like,
what were I supposed to do? You gave me Russell
Westbrook in a championship year, That's.
Speaker 1: Easy with all the nonspacers in those secondary I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I'm not even kidding when I say this. If
you play Russell Westbrook, Peyton Watson, Aaron Gordon together and
maybe throw out Saritch out there and the bench just
killed you, it's every columnist in America will write, well,
look at this bench. The front office gave him the
worst bench of all time, and like what's going on?
Like Michael Blowe did all he could and it's a
very easy argument to make.
Speaker 1: So Russell Westbrook, I want I'm gonna start with this.
Speaker 2: That was number two, by the way, number two storyline,
the young Guy's number three.
Speaker 1: I think the Westbrook is polarizing. I will say two
things have almost sold me on it. One is that
Nicole Jokic wanted this to happen, and so I'm just like,
you know what I'm wrong about everything. Two you recorded,
I think it was a solo podcast for Locked on
Nuggets where you really went into detail about the things
they could use him, like how they could use him,
the lineups that they could tailor. And two so I
came away from that and I was like, Okay, this
might work. But now like I've had more time and space,
and it's just like, I look at the track record
of Russell Westbrook and I can't quite get there. So
I'm just curious. As you know, your viewership has already
heard all this, but I'm just curious. It's like, where
are you at with this fit? What are you monitoring?
Is what intrigued you the most about it?
Speaker 2: Again, the number one part part of this is I
think organizational alignment is so important. I do think that
everybody in the organization wants that alignment. I don't think
this is a thing where it's like everyone is so
dug in. I think everybody will come into a new
season with sort of fresh perspective and hey, let's work
together on this. But that being said, the number one
thing is just are you going to have the same
vision for how to maximize Russell Westbrook? Because for this
to have a chance, everything kind of has to go perfect.
In my opinion, this is not one that you can
get the fiftieth percent dile and it's going to work out.
You kind of need it to work out big time.
But Number one, what he brings his leadership, and I
know that his type of leadership. Maybe people will roll
their eyes at that, but Denver's a weird team. Jokic
is their best player, but he's a weird leader, greatly
by example guy. Everybody looks up to him, and I
think everybody has a healthy respect for him so that
they want to do right by him. But he doesn't
necessarily call anyone out. And I think when we talk
about the number two leader, Jamal Murray is the guy
that probably needs the most calling out. So you have
a weird dynamic here, and Russell Westbrook represents an example
of a guy that I think can be that type
of leader for Denver in the locker room, and hopefully
he pushes Jamal to be the best version of himself.
You know, I tell this story on the other podcast
I do, but I was told Russell Westbrook and his
first arrival in Denver to sign his contract, took stock
of the locker room and called people and told him
what the heck's going on with your locker It's disgusting,
total mess, And like that's the type of stuff that
sounds simple and dumb, but I think Denver actually needed it,
Like nobody else would have said, Hey, man, your locker
room kind of smells like you're kind of marrored in
it for everybody else. So I think he's a guy
that's going to have everybody working as hard as they
possibly can, and that's important. But the on court fit
one thousand percent comes down to how much Wes Russell
Westbrook is willing to adapt his shot profile, because I
think he's adapted his game pretty well with the Clippers.
We saw him try to adapt and come off the
bench and play different styles, But he still doesn't seem
to understand where he what is a good shot and
what is a bad shot relative to where he is
as a player right now. And Denver is a team
that doesn't get a bunch of just bucket getter buckets,
and I don't think Westbrook's going to provide those. What
they get is smart basketball and efficiency because they're smart
about what shots they take. One player can ruin all
of that. One player taking bad shots lowers your efficiency
enough to now it's like, well, we can't survive without it,
And that's by far the biggest concern.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's more important to get and obviously
he'll play with both of them, but is it more
important to get him to when you're looking at some
of those stagger lineups minutes with Jamal Murray or minutes
with NICOLEA. Jokicch Like, what is going to be like
the more optimal way to maximize his fit.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a nine and ten year sample size
that if you play with Joki you optimize, you're optimized,
and if you play with Jamal Murray you're not optimized.
Jamal Murray without Nikola Jokich, I mean, Jamal Murray has
ran Denver's bench for several iterations and it just never
seems to elevate it. It's not something that works. On
top of that, as we saw with Team Canada. I mean,
part of what, in my opinion went on with Team
Canada was he just doesn't look healthy or in great shape,
and that's concerning. But another part of it is Jamal
Murray kind of needs to the ball in his hands.
He's not good at reducing his role into other other spots.
And I think if you play with Russell Westbrook, unless
Russell Westbrook is your off you know, off ball floor spacer,
which I don't think is great, then you probably need
to share the rock a little bit and play off.
And Jamal Murray just does. I don't think he's very
interested in that, but he also doesn't seem especially good
at that, which is surprising because it was the role
he found himself in at Kentucky. So it's something he
seems to have lost along the way, or at least
lost the impact of. So I don't think so. I
think you play with Westbrook and Murray opposite. Michael Malone
has never done this, though Jamal Murray has been the
one starter that he has put with his bench in
the entirety of Murray's existence. I think one of the
big questions is does Malone go away from that because
it clearly doesn't seem like it's the right play.
Speaker 1: Uh. The dariusarag fit. What kind of intrigues you about that?
Speaker 2: Well, what intrigues me is that I think he is
a Jokiic facsimile, which which is important. You know, Denver
has tried players that are not at all like Jokich. Okay,
we're giving a different lookof of our bench, and it
just hasn't worked. I do think there's something too. You
can run your elbow offense through Sarich and everything kind
of looks and feels the same, even though it's a
lesser version of it. But at least there's continuity of
what we're trying to do and the reads we're making.
Speaker 1: He is a.
Speaker 2: Backup center, and by the way, I know there's a
lot of discussion about whether or not he's a center
for Denver and the NBA. I think six ten is
fine center for a backup center. You have DeAndre Jordan
for the three or four teams you're gonna need a
bigger body against if you actually need that. But I
think he'll be good as the fulcrum of the second unit.
He passes the ball extremely well. And then the last
piece of this is Dario Sarich. I think I'm not
sure we've actually seen the best of him. His last
two healthy years have been the best version of him.
But because he's only twenty nine thirty years old, I think,
and he doesn't really rely on his athleticism, I think
it's possible that he is a better player than what
he has shown, and you know the ramp up to
him in his career. The thing I'm not excited about
sarch is I just don't think he's a Westbrook player.
So you have a player that I actually love before
you sign Westbrook, but putting him in Westbrook together seems
like a bit of two different philosophies.
Speaker 1: He also, you know, when he was in Phoenix, I
think probably some of his best moments like that was
just him at the five, and so like, I think
he's perfectly fine as a backup center. My qualm with
it was viewing it in tandem with the Westbrook signing,
is Sarge hit his threes, and he hit his threes
in the past, he doesn't take a ton of them,
like six per thirty six minutes. I guess at the
center spot like that'll probably be well above average. But
I don't think defenses care. And I also just didn't
understand why he got the mini MLI. That was the
other thing that just like was like, is this the
second year of their just giving this out just because
so I found that interesting, especially because it's a player who,
in theory, you're using to play your best player's best position.
Speaker 2: And this is when I talk about Denver. While I
like some of the like basketball decisions and thinking, I
don't always love that they maximize the value that they're getting.
And that's an example of it. As same with Reggie
Jackson getting two years on his deal and then you
have to pay to get rid of him on the
second one, I just it seems like Denver can, even
when they are right on things seem to mess except
the Margins just a little bit that ended up coming
back to hunt you. So I agree with you. I'm
not sure there was other teams that were out there
trying to get him for that.
Speaker 1: And I guess, just because you had mentioned this before
we had actually started, that you thought I was a
little bit lower on their offseason overall than you, And
I guess, like, do you know where our disconnect then
comes from? Is it just like you're waiting while I
understand like the vision of this team, and I'm coming
at it from like, well, you could have just maintained
that vision and kept KCP two. And I'm getting too caught.
Speaker 2: Up in that, No, because again the CACP part is
the hugest part of this, right I'm and I'm with
you lock Step on that one. I just think you
figured out down the road. Where I differ with most
people is Denver just having Murray come back from injury,
and remember he was terrible for twenty games that year.
He came back and they still have a high seed
and then go on to go sixteen to four in
the playoffs, and then last year, missing him for twenty
three games and winning fifty seven, still going to the
second round even though he clearly was hobbled. Jamal Murray
didn't have a good game in the playoffs. I know
people will point to Game seven. I thought he was
terrible in Game seven. In the second half of the
first half, he was pretty good, but in the second
half he wasn't. So I look at this and I go,
Murray was good for roughly half of the season last
year and they still won fifty seven games, and if
he was healthy at the end, I think they would
have at the very least gone to the finals. Boston
was such a good team that I think you have
to at least give them respect and say that who
knows what would have happen there. They want it, so
they get to say they would have. But I look
at that and say, Denver was at least still a
title favorite last season and what they lose in KCP.
And I'm higher on probably Christian Brown, Peyton Watson than
most people are. I think that they you look at
them and say they're still contender, they might not be
the favorites that they were of the last two years.
But I don't think that they are very far below
the Bostons of the world. And that's where the disc
that to me is just where I look at it. Yes,
I think this was not the most optimized offseason, but
I still look at Denver and go their margins. They're
small margins that hurt them and handicap them a little bit,
but their margin for air in twenty twenty three was
so wide, and even last year, I think it was
whiter than people realize that. I still think that they're
right there in that mix.
Speaker 1: I think one of the players who can maybe perception,
especially during the regular season. Of all this is what
Christian Brown does in his expanded role. Is there just
a chance that Denver's better off defensively by elevating him
into that KCP spot.
Speaker 2: This is a controversial opinion, and I say this as
somebody that fully respects what KCP does, especially on the
offensive end, because I think he was a really it's
underrated how good of a fit he was, both in
usage percentage and the skill set he had. But yes,
I think that when you look at KCP and what
he did for this team, he's one of the best
at getting through screens. He's incredibly smart, he's locked in
and never takes possessions off. But he did get bullied
by a lot of really good players in ways that
and I know everybody gets bullied by star players. You
can't shut him down, but in ways that you go, man,
it doesn't really feel that different from anyone else. Devin
Booker's just given him the business and he's making zero
impact on him. Anthony Edwards is almost looking for him
and hunting him in matchups. Christian Brown is a really
good defender and there are things he brings to the
table that KCP did not, So I wouldn't put it
that I think he will be better. I just put
it in that he will be different. And I think
the NBA is as level as it's ever been. There's
as much parody as it's ever been, and a lot
of this comes down to do you match up with
a team that you just match up well with defensively.
Last year, Anthony Edwards was a guy that I wish
Christian Brown would have guarded more because I think he
would have had a bigger impact than KCP. If that
happens again this year, I think it it favors Denver.
If you go up against say a Steph Curry, now
I think you want a KCP. So it's kind of
just a I think it's in one hand out the
other with them, and that's why I think the team
is more or less similar to what they were last year,
maybe a slight step below. It's just gonna come down
to what matchups do you get.
Speaker 1: It's funny that my first reaction, and I don't mean
to make this so much about KCP, but when he
left was my It wasn't the defense I was worry
about as well. How are they just going to replace
that three point volume? I know it's not been like
a huge part of their offense and the way they
generate shots it doesn't always matter, but then you had
Russell Westbrook into it all and it becomes combustible and
it just feels like that type of volume is super important.
So what does if Christian Brown's gonna make an offensive leap,
what does that look like? Is it just the addition
of three point volume? Where is there's something else that
you're really looking for in that area of his development?
Speaker 2: To me, the three point volume is I just don't
buy that he's a three point shooter, right. I mean,
there's some guys you can tell they have fluidity of
motion in their shot that you think Okay can grow.
He's a little rigid looks like. I mean, he practices
it and everything else, but he doesn't look to me
like a guy that's going to be a forty percent
guy on volume. But he also brings other things to
the table. One size, He's enormous compared to KCP, and
size is important today's NBA, I always say, and this
goes back to the Wilson Chandler era. Yoke is really
good at throwing passes when there's a size advantage to
his receiver. And Christian Brown is going to have a
size advantage against almost every single shooting guard. So when
you talk about cuts, yokis doesn't need you to beat
your guy on the cut. He just needs you to
be taller than him so he can throw that fade
pass over the top. And Christian Brown is going to
be taller, bigger, stronger, and equal, if not more athletic
than most of the guys he's going to And on
top of that, one thing he does that KCP did
not do well, Christian Brown cuts hard and in a
motion offense, a motion heavy offense like Denver runs. Having
people that cut hard makes the defense react more strongly.
It opens up more passing lane, so I think, and
then you go to offensive rebounding, which is one of
Christian Brown's strengths. He needs to emphasize that this year
and give Denver second chance opportunities, which is one of
his strengths. So I think you gain some there from
him that CACP didn't provide. But at the end of
the day, shooting is the easiest thing. You don't need
to even make your shots to space the floor. With shooting.
Christian needs to cut hard, he needs to rebound, He
needs to do those things, and like there'll be nights
he doesn't do him. So it is again in one
hand out the other. But I think it's still a
concern because shooting is the easiest thing to have night tonight.
Speaker 1: What is Peyton Watson ceiling on defense?
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I think it's a Herb Jones level defender,
a shutdown type guy. He's that good. He does it
in a little bit of a different way than say
the Jade McDaniels and the Herb Joneses. He's more of
a shot blocker. He gets beat off the dribble more
than those guys. Those guys kind of bottle people up.
You can't get around him. Peyton Watson, you know, more
tracks guys and then surprises them and blocks them, which
I think if I had to pick between the two,
I would rather have the containment. But maybe the containment
comes this year. What I think is tough about Peyton
Watson so I think he can be an elite All
NBA caliber defensive player. I think he's that good. I
don't know if it comes this early, but I think
at some point in his career he can be that
caliber player. The thing that I think is tough for
Peyton Watson is I don't love his fit on this bench.
Denver's biggest weakness is shooting. Across their entire lineup. Peyton
Watson is not a shooter. But I have a feeling
he's gonna have to play the role of shooter this
year just by default, but just based on who he's
going to be next to. It's like, well, we need
you to be in the corner knocking down shots, and
that's not a strength of his. And then on top
of that, you know Michael Malone had hinted that the
starting shooting guard position is up for grabs in camp,
which I think is a little crazy. Christian Brown, to
me think clearly like he has earned that to what
he's done, but Michael Malone likes to do this, And
then it gets you thinking Peyton Watson might be best
in that role, like if you played him there, that
might be the best thing for him. But I don't
think he'll ever get a chance there. You have Julian Straw,
that you have Christian Brown, so he's gonna be off
the bench in the small forward role, needing to shoot
the ball to provide enough spacing. And it's just this season.
It's not anybody's fault necessarily, Like I'm not trying to
set Malone up here for something, but I don't know
that the rotations are gonna work out in his favor.
So I hope I'm wrong on that because I love
Peyton Watson as a player, but I think he might
have to swim upstream this year.
Speaker 1: And so I guess there's just going to be even
with the addition of Westbrook, even Starch, if you want
to use your big man in a way where he's
gonna have the ball more. The ship is kind of
sounding like, well, we've seen him experiment more with Peyton
Watson as kind of a ball handler, because he does.
To me, he probably has that element of his game
more than a Christian Brown would. And so if they're
trying to like plumb the depths of these guys, I
would like to see more of that.
Speaker 2: If this was Eric Spolstra, I would one thousand percent
expect that, I would say if this was Mark Dagnott,
I would one thousand percent expect, like, well, what does
he do well on offense? He has a really good handle,
he seems to be able to get into the paint
really well. Well, he's not a great finisher. He doesn't
shoot the ball well, but he's a good passer. How
do we tailor our offense so that he does the
things he's good at and we try to mitigate the
things he's not good at. I just don't think that
is how Michael Malone operates. I think he looks at
and goes, we need somebody in the corners. Peyton Watson
get there, and you're gonna get four a game, and
you need to make two of them. And I just
don't count on him to do that, I think he'll
have a lot of oh for four nights. And again
that is a criticism of Michael Malone. I don't think
he always thinks that way about how to maximize each
individual talent. And Peyton Watson to me is I just
play the numbers game. He seems to be the guy
that I think will have the least tailored to him.
Speaker 1: What did you make of Julian Strother last year pre
that's bray knee injury, and then even just I know
a lot of people were happy about what they saw
from him in Summer League too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was lower on him than I think
most people were, and not even lower on him long term.
He just looked to me like a rookie, and he
looked like a late first round pick rookie that okay,
this guy could be something in a couple of years.
He shoots the ball extremely well. He needs to shoot
and to shoot the ball for three to be effective.
And when you're a young player and not a star,
it's hard to get especially on a championship team, it's
hard to get shots. So I think that's kind of
how I evaluate him. Is I think a lot of
people pencil him into oh, he's gonna help the bench
score and this or that he's played half of the season.
To expect a guy with a thousand minutes under his
belt to go out there and now save your bench,
it's scoring is a really big ask, and I think
he's up for the challenge a few years from now.
I don't know if he's going to be up for
that challenge this year. I think he'll have games where
he scores thirty points this year, because when he gets hot,
he's one of those guys that makes four or five
in a row. So I think he'll have some big
scoring games. But you need consistency probably from him more
than I think he'll be able to provide. And then
defensively when you get to a playoffs, one of the
concerning things for Denver is all right, Christian Brown the starters.
I'll bet you that lineup is really good this year.
If he plays, you go to the bench and say,
who are your guys? I hope it's Peyton Watson, Dario Sariz,
probably Westbrook. I have no idea he was certainly wasn't
one last year. He was a playoff anchor last year,
like but pretty big one, Julian Strather. Regular season teams
aren't going to do this, But in the playoffs, is
he gonna be up to snuff to where you're playing
Dallas Mavericks and Luka Doncic is playing against your bench?
Do they just hunt him every single time? And if so,
I don't think he's going to develop in this one
year up to the level of well, obviously nobody wants
him to be hunted, but we can survive based on this,
this and this. He might just be a guy that
gets scored on every single time and becomes unplayable.
Speaker 1: So you think he would be that much of an
issue defensively that there's no scenario in which, because of
the concerns we just met with mentioned with Peyton Watson
in the role you think he's gonna have in the
Nuggets where maybe Julian Strother just becomes more important to
those bench units because of the spacing.
Speaker 2: I mean, they have opposite strengths and weaknesses, right, So
it might come down to into one how right, Well,
that would be a superstar, right, I mean if you
had both of those guys on out each side, But
you might I think that Michael Malone will come to
a point at some point in the playoffs where you
have to make the decision of, well, do we put
Peyton Watson out there so Luka Doncic isn't just get
free reign to the paint, but we don't have any
shooting hut the court and we can't score. Or do
we put Julian out there and we're gonna make some shots,
but Lucas probably gonna score eighteen points this quarter. I
think that's gonna be a situation Denver finds himself in
unless Peyton develops a better shot throughout the year and
becomes a more consistent shooter, or Julian is better defensively
than I kind of anticipate he will be by the
end of this year. And again, it's not even a
knock on Julian. It's hard to play defense at that
level in the NBA, especially when you're an offensive player.
And I think he'll get there, But will he get
there by April of next year? We'll find out.
Speaker 1: Michael Porter Junior healthy last season. That's always fun. None
of what I'm about to ask him as an insult
to Michael Porter Junior, who I tend to be higher
on thank consensus, but is this his final form? Are
there more liars to it? And also one this is
like a personal agenda question. Why does he feel like
or to me the streakiest all time great shooter in
NBA history, Like I just you look at his percentages
in the volume knocked down sniper all time, and it's
just he seems so streaky.
Speaker 2: Anecdotally, I can tell you the answer that second one,
and I know it. But his shot is so perfect
that you just expect them all to go in. And
at the end of the year he shoots forty percent
and you're like, man, he was off all year. It's like, no,
he wasn't it just every time he shoots it. I
think it's in literally every time, because it's always balanced,
it's always perfect for him. It's everything. I think the
thing with Michael Porter, when you ask if it's his
final form, I kind of do. But that meaning I
don't think there's like a major change in the style
that he plays or unlocks all these skills he's off
the ball, dribbling or this or that. I think Denver
can unlock him a little bit more, getting more movement
in their offense. I know that has been a when
we talk about alignment between coach and front office. I
think that's probably one of them that I think Michael
Malon would say, you want me to run him around more? No, like,
this guy belongs in the corner. Our offense is fine,
and I tend to side on the other side where
I think that they can be a little more dynamic
and using his gravity, using his movement to increase his
gravity and his role in the offense. But here's where
I think he can be a little different. Michael Porter
is a pure shooter, and his shot selection his first
two seasons in the NBA was laughable, and yet he
shot really well. He shot even better forty four percent
from three to forty two percent from three because he's
such a good shooter that bad shots can be good
shots for him. And I think there's a value to
having a guy. Klay Thompson was this guy. He would
take bad shots, but guess what, he made enough of
them that you ran out on him all the time,
even if he thought like it would be dumb for
him to shoot this, but I have to go and
run him off the line because there's that gravity there.
I think Michael Porter has called those bad shots. He's
reduced him in a way that has been It was
smart and it served its purpose. They won a title
that way. But I think now you can open it
up a little bit. Sometimes you have to reduce a
guy a little bit overcorrect and then say, okay, but
there is a little more leeway, and to me, that's
where he can make himself a more impactful player. It's
just it's not a lot. It's one or two shots
a game that Denver builds into their offense that says, hey,
we're living with this. You come off the handoff and
you just go into your shooting motion like you see
a tiny little bit of daylight. Not the best shot,
doesn't matter. We need that defender to jump out at
you every time you're running off of a handoff. So
go off of them. And some games you're gonna go
three for three on those and it'll break the game
wide open.
Speaker 1: Even just the pure concept of having him on the
floor seems more important than ever now when you remove
KCP from the equation and throw maybe some question mark
shooters into the fold.
Speaker 2: Well, this is why another one of the most interesting
storylines to me is in years past, Jamal Murray is
always the guy that you stagger, and Michael Porter is
not well rounded enough of a player to carry a
bench unit. He just isn't. And we've seen him when
Murray and Yokicha been out. What it looks like. It
looks horrible. He looks worse than you know, what you
would expect of a player that caliber, like Kevin Herder
would probably carry a team better than Michael Porter would
in that position. But you give Russell Westbrook and Dario
Sariz two playmakers, two set up guys. I think that
he needs to be the stagger guy at least would
love to see it for fifteen games. Just give it
a long sample size of Okay, you need shooting off
the bench, and you need a guy who now you
can really slide that scale up of who else is
going to shoot the ball. So you're out there and
if Westbrook kicks it to you, man, that ball goes up.
I don't care how open or not open you are.
That ball goes up from three. And I think that
would that when you talk about does he have more
to go? It's the same skill set but in a
different role that might allow him to shine a little
bit more.
Speaker 1: The three players are going to ask you about not
playing roles, but they're taking up roster spots. So I
think that it's important. Denver has all fifteen guaranteed contracts
in the books right now, so on a start, just
if any impressions or thoughts on them over archingly Jalen Pickett, So.
Speaker 2: Jalen Pickett, I think is a guy that is over.
He's done, and I think he is an example of him.
We talk about the schism, and I knew this early on.
I'd always tell people it was going into his rookie
season because he I like the skill set you go
in the summer league, and I thought he had a
pretty good summer league, and then going into camp and
just talking to people, and I was like, this guy
is not a guy that the coaching STAPHF likes. This
guy is out from day one, and of course from
there he has gotten progressively worse. So he's a guy
that I look at and I say, I think it's done.
I think there's zero chance for him. I think is
confident shot and he this last several weeks he has
not been spotted in the gym, and I don't believe
he's been in Denver. All the other young guys are
in Denver working out in front of the coaching staff,
and I just look at that and I go, I
think the coaching staff knows that's not our guy. He
knows the coaching staff things, that's not our guy. So
he's out hundred are are you moving on to the
next one.
Speaker 1: Yeah? He of two first names, hunter Tyson.
Speaker 2: Hunter Tyson to me is interesting because I think he's
another guy that when we talk about Calvin Booth had
a vision. Okay, we have this new CBA, We're we
have to bring in some young guys.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I think Michael Malone looked at that and said, three
rookies on a defending title team like no way the
out Pickett out, hunter Tyson out. But unlike Pickett, who
I think was always like a risky play, he's just
short Eddie slow, like he was always going to be
a risk to hit. Hunter Tyson to me, has a
skill set. Denver needs shooting. He might be the third
best or fourth best shooter on the entire team. He's
really reliable, he's tall. He's not a great player in
my opinion all around, although we haven't seen a ton
of him, but he is a good shooter. And you
look at it and go need shooting. That bench lineup
might need him over time, So I think he might
actually get a chance at some point this year. I
think he's still on the outside looking in. But in
most years I would look at him and say, no
chance he's getting in. What's he doing on the roster?
Why do you have this guy? And now I look
at it and go, Denver doesn't have that many guys
and they need shooting. He might get a chance.
Speaker 1: Doron Holmes obviously has the Achilles injury. But when you
go back, we were just doing our Western Conference grades,
and I don't think I appreciate in the moment, like
how much they gave up, like to move up and
get him. It was It's not like super egregious, but
it was like stuff. Any early impressions on him were
just the organization's view of him.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's kind of tragic, to be
honest with you, because here's Doron Holmes brought shooting, and
I actually think he was a pretty good shooter, and
I know that's one of the number one things he
was emphasizing. His numbers weren't great his first two years. Obviously,
last year it was phenomenal, and I think from everything
i'd heard it in the gym and everything else, he
was showing that he was actually a real shooter, a
guy that you know in the years to come would
be a shooter defensive like he kind of tied the
team the vision together in some ways, and I don't
think you should have expected that this year. But the
problem with using draft capital moving up in the draft,
having so many young players on your roster is every
year of development matters, and you kind of lose one
development year for him being out this entire year. So
even if that plan was a good one, which we
don't know if it was, but even if it was,
you basically reset the clock next year and he's a
rookie next season. So for me, that hurts. I think
if your Calvin Booth, your vision was the team is
good this year, maybe wins a title, and then next
year you basically have a first round pick in Deron
Holmes because he went through the system in a year
and he's coming to your team. That's not going to
happen now. He's going to be another year behind, and
that hurts. But I like him as a player. I
just circumstances matter and he unfortunately got hurt in his
very first Summer League game.
Speaker 1: I want to couch this next question by saying, if
anyone's doing this through the lens of just because they
like ACP walk, that's not why I feel. That's why
I almost can't just like it's ineffable. Like I can't
describe why I feel this way, But I don't know
if I have PTSD from the Jamal Murray experienced last
season and through the Olympics. But is there just a
chance with the emphasis they're placing on the youth and
just looking at this like adding Russell Westbrook into the fold,
that they're just putting too much or asking too much
of Nikole Jokis to tie this entire thing together on
the offensive end.
Speaker 2: Uh. I mean, of course, but that's true of every
superstar player, right like Heavy as the head that wears
the crown. So for me, yes, Jokic has to be
the best player in the world for Denver to have
a chance. But I think that's just inevitable. The way
I would answer your question, though, that I think is fair,
is Jokic has put this team on his back for
five straight seasons. Murray was out for two of those,
they obviously won a title. You know, in twenty twenty
three last year, he's carrying the team. I think it's
some point he's now twenty nine, he'll be thirty by
the end of the year. At some point you look
at it and go, can he do that? Though, like
Lebron could carry his team for the first ten years
of his career, no problem, not even tired. I'm carrying
this team. I'm playing forty minutes a night. I can
do it. But at some point you get to an
age where it is, Yeah, but that's not smart to
write him that many minutes. And I think Denver has
to be at that point, and I would agree with
you that again, Michael Malone knows you get fired for
seven and seven, you don't get fired for nine to five.
So I think there's gonna be some games in November
where it's very clear that Jokic is at thirty five minutes.
We probably shouldn't play him this many, but man, if
we just play him another four minutes tonight, we can
still win here. And I just think he's gonna We're
gonna see him at some point start to wear down.
And by the way, I think it happened last year.
I was thinking about this, Yoke. We're not that far
removed from when Yoke played sixty five of sixty eight minutes,
and it was one of the most impressive feats. He
sprints the floor, he does all this stuff. He's still
in great shape. But he wore down last year in
the playoffs, and he wore down because of the regular
season and cumulative wearing everything else. But I look at
that and I go, could Yoke play sixty five of
sixty eight Not that he should, but could he play
that like he did a few years ago? I don't know.
And maybe that's the age, right. You can do that
at twenty five, you can't do that at twenty nine.
And that was one of Yokic's advantage that he didn't
wear down when other people did. And so if you
lose that, that is one like I don't think has
really lost anything in Room's game. He's still a sending
but that might be the one thing he's lost, is
that ability to not wear down against other teams.
Speaker 1: And I was gonna say that maybe that extra break
because you lose it. He's played so much basketball over
the past few years. But then so you have that break,
but then you go right into the Olympics where he's
playing his ass off. Anyway, So are you ready for
the cookie cutter lightning Round portion of the podcast?
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: So is there anything about this team that we haven't
discussed that you think is just flying under the radar
deserves more attention?
Speaker 2: To be honest, not really. I mean we talked about
all these the major storylines here. I think Denver everybody
knew Denver was gonna take Deron Holmes. Like, there's so
much about Denver that it's kind of known. I think
they're less mysterious than they have been in years past.
So the cards are to some degree out on the table.
Speaker 1: We've come a long way from the discourse of Kennon
Cooleyoak to be the best player on a championship team.
Speaker 2: Though. Yeah, for two years.
Speaker 1: When you look at this roster before we see any games,
before training camp opens, what do you view is its
biggest need? Uh?
Speaker 2: Shooting? I think it's probably just if you're going to
be optimistic about all the pieces fitting all the pieces
that Denver has, the shooting is the one thing where
it's just hard to say, well, you need Sarch to
really make his threes, and you need Strawther, who's a
rookie and even though we think he's a good shooter,
didn't shoot a good percentage his rookie year. And maybe
Peyton needs a little bump, and that there's just a
lot of guys that you feel like need to shoot
better than what their market average would be, and so
that's probably shooting and then depth. I mean, the other
thing about this is we're talking about Denver's fully healthy roster.
Let's just look at point guard. You have Murray and
you have Russell Westbrook, and then we have Jalen Pickett
and Trey Alexander, who I like, but he's a two
way player, so you have only two guys. Well, Murray
missed twenty three games last year, If he missed twenty
three this year, Westbrook starts, who's the backup point guard,
There's not a clear option there, so lots in time, Adam,
maybe it is, maybe it's Trey Alexander. Who knows. But
I look at it and I just go Denver fully
healthy playoffs. I can talk myself into a lot, but
we just know there's gonna be games throughout the course
of the year where you're like, Wow, Aaron Gordon's out
and there's really nobody what is the guy behind him?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Who's hunter Tyson's in the game. I think there's gonna
be a lot of games where there's the depth will
really uh, You'll see Denver's thin depth at points throughout
the regular season.
Speaker 1: It was a nice segue to this. And when you
look at when they're fully healthy, and if you had
to pin it down to a top ten rotation, it
feels like there's nine locks right when you look at
the starters. If we include Brown, then you're gonna throw
Peyton Russ Charich and Julian Strauther. So it would that
be to nine locks? And then who would you think
he gets that tense spot?
Speaker 2: Well, there's not a great option there is there, because
you're either talking about Blacko Chanchar Zeke Naji or Hunter
Tyson or maybe even DeAndre Jordan if you'd decide to
move starage to four or what have you. I don't know.
I think sik Naji maybe has the inside track. I
mean Blacko Chanchar I like a lot. And in theory, again,
the Westbrook piece of this complicates things. But in theory,
Asarich Vlatko, both of those guys are very smart. They
both can shoot a little bit, They know how to
defend their position and play team defense, and they're just
smart players. And I like them together. But does Westbrook
kind of mitigate their strengths? Does the ball in his hand?
And those guys are good as connectors, right, they're swinging
the ball. Well, Westbrook's not necessarily swinging the ball himself,
So does it take something out there? And then Zeke Nagy,
he might be in the sweets, but this, this is
the this is the but it might just work this year.
Zeke Naji has been a guy that has been like
it's his time now for two years. Two years it's like,
well here it is. The red carpet has rolled out
for you. And both years and again, I think a
little bit of this is he's a casual and Michael Malone.
I don't think Michael Malone has ever liked him. I
don't think he has gotten the best chance. If you
look at players who have played the most minutes but
the fewest with other starters, I think he's number one
on the list. He never plays with the good players
on Denver's roster, so I think he's been set up
in a way into some because some of this is
on him, but he's been put in the toughest position
of all players on Denver. That being said, this year
he needs to make shots and if he gets he'll
get his chances because Denver so thin. There is a
world where he can shoot the ball well this year
and it's like, hey, zig Naji out there alongside Sarch
and now we actually have some shooting because both of
those guys can shoot. I'm not betting on it, but
that is the avenue now. And by the way, zeke Naji,
everyone's given up with, the fan base, is given up on,
the coaches, given up on Sometimes that's nice to be
over the hump to where it's like, Okay, nobody expects
anything of me, so maybe i'll make my threes this year.
Speaker 1: I won't ever quit on the Ichnagi. I'm just going
to continue to go to Billy. I was elated when
they signed that extension him. I was like, oh, that
was so smart. It's a contract they could move or
he's gonna look like a margin that take age like milk.
So far, but I'm holding out hope. So this is
like the ninth consecutive year where this question is stupid,
But what is is their best most used crunch time
unit just going to be the starters with we're assuming
Christian Brown is in that.
Speaker 2: What I think is interesting of that question is Denver
has had a clear cut starting and closing five for
most of their Jokich Murray era. And I think when
you look at a lot of your best teams, and
again I keep going back to the Spolsters and the Dagnats,
they didn't have that. And it wasn't a weakness, it
was a strength. It was what is the game call for? Oh,
we need a little bit more of this Isaiah Joe
out there, we need a little bit more of this.
Let's put Giddy out there, we need a little more
of this. Let's put Cason Wallace out there. Denver, I
think this year is in position for that. I don't
think it fits Michael Malone's coaching style. I think he
really likes to we are who we are and we
go out there. So I would say, yes, it's gonna
be Christian Brown. But my opinion, there would be nights
where it'd be nice to see Julian in that role.
It would be nice to see Peyton Watson in one
of those roles, and to me, that would be Denver's strength.
That would really prepare them for a postseason, which, by
the way, Michael Malone will do that in a postseason,
but he never does that in a regular season. So
this year, I think they have a clear cut closing four,
and I think that there is a spot that you
have three options. Maybe even for let's say Russell Westbrook.
It surprises us all. Maybe he could be a guy
that closes in certain circumstances there and I just think
Michael Malone would need to have his finger on the
pulse and be willing. I think one of the reasons
he doesn't do that, This is my own opinion. One
of the reasons he likes to have his starting five
is there's no controversy there. Everybody closes the same every year.
We don't have to go to the locker room explain myself.
You choose a guy and then you lose the game.
Everybody knows in the NBA like that's tough you have
to have. You know, that can hurt your culture if
you have to answer for why did he do this
and not that? And I just think Michael Malone knows
that's a vulnerability I'm gonna avoid.
Speaker 1: Do you think because I guess we didn't kind of
set on this. You mentioned how principle he is, but
do you think the roster is going to force him
to like just we're not even talking about just the
crunch line, but experiment on some level here because he's
out of other options or out of the way to
like I'm gonna use these like you don't even have
eight guys. You can just view on a crutch as
a crutch on this roster anymore.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm telling you, I think that you and
I it's easy to do that because we don't have
a million dollar contract that could go away in one
month when we do something wrong. And I just think
that experiment, Yes, but if you we all know when
a coach experiments and it works, genius, man, they throw
out all these combo and look, he's willing to get
crazy and zany, and it's great. If coach throws out
combinations like that and that doesn't work, there's no consistency,
nobody knows what the role is, nobody knows what's going on.
It's like it's a very easy thing to criticize a
coach for and I think Michael Malone knows that. Whereas,
as I said earlier in the show, if you kind
of play this this straight, no creativity, no no adjusting
night but none of that stuff, you can just look
at it and say we got killed because we just
didn't have the right guys. I played the guys I'm
given and they don't. They don't do the job, and
I'm doing the best I can and in a year
where by the way, he doesn't have a contract extension,
neither's Calvin Booth. I think both guys are like trying
to impress Dad, and you know, both guys trying to
be the one that's left standing at the end of
this and just to fight game theory this out. Maybe
I'm overthinking this, Maybe they don't think.
Speaker 1: I honestly would have thought from my like million foot
perspective of if you're going this route that Calvin Booth
has gone, I just would have expected that there needed
to be more alignment between coach and front office, because,
like you, like, if you're in the front office, Okay,
Michael ol Won will get criticized in the you know,
the media for if the Nuggets loose, but like if
you've actually wanted these young guys to play. You have
to understand that, like the opportunity costs, there might be
victories or regular season awkwardness. I understand Malones if you
want to call it stubborness or perspective, especially based off
what happened in Sacramento, But like, I find it mind
bothering that we're like, we're multiple years of like the
Nuggets clearly laying this out, and like, how do you
not like how is there not more of an alignment
here between the coach and the front off? Is that?
Speaker 2: Again? I just think that you have very principled people
that you know have succeeded. It's just the same thing
with the you know, you get the star college players
drafted twenty eighth and he comes in, It's like, hey,
can you be a corner shooter? That's not what got
me here? Man, What got me here was doing what
I do. It's like, yeah, but you're at a new level.
You need to change. I think Michael Malone's a guy
that I know what got me here, and I know
how coaches get fired. And I grew up and I've
gotten all this advice from, you know, following my father's footsteps.
And I just think that he knows that. Again, and
I know this personally, like I'm part of a startup
right at all city that I see these different dynamics.
You can be right about something and feel principled about
the direction, but the truth is, nobody in a team,
or in a corporation, or in anything is a sole
decision maker. And I think that he kind of understands,
you know, everybody kind of understands that, Hey, Calvin Booth
might have had one vision, but if everybody doesn't buy
into that vision, it doesn't matter. And Michael will in
the same thing. He has a vision, but if Calvin
Booth doesn't buy into it, it doesn't matter. And those
two are just gonna have to find the right harmony.
And by the way, not just them. I think ownership
is a part of this, and I even think some
of the players are a part of it, to be
honest with you, because when we talk about who plays
on the bench and who doesn't, some of this I
think has a little bit to do not a lot,
but a little bit to do with what do the
players want? Does Jokich want to play with those guys?
Does Michael Porter want to play with the bench, like,
I think there's a level of Yeah, I don't want
to be responsible for that.
Speaker 1: Is there a weirdo, funky, offbeat lineup? You're hoping that
Michael Malone might roll out this season?
Speaker 2: So there's just so many funky lineups, right, Like anything
with Westbrook and Jokich is funky to me. I have
no idea how that's going to work. If it works,
it's awesome. So there. I mean, I would like to
see those two play again quite a bit. I want
to see Peyton Watson handle the ball. I don't expect it,
but I would love to see opportunities for him to
play with a little bit more shooting and a little
bit more Hey, you're bringing the ball up, you're coming
off this dribble handoff and trying to read the cord
off of it. So those would be the things I
think I'm most interested in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what we need to see the Peyton
Watson will just throw Julian Strather, Michael Porter, Junior, Dario
Sarz and Zeke Nauji out there and it's a Peyton Watson.
Speaker 2: I think that one might be bad. A Zeke Naji,
So I'm so worried about I will say this, I
want to see Michael Porter play more four with the bench.
So if you put Sarch at the five and him
at the four, I'm curious how you build a lineup
so that he is a true four in that and
not like him and Peyton Watson together. Who's the three,
who's the four defensive? It doesn't matter. But if he
is alongside Christian Brown and Julian Strather, Okay, he's clearly
the four here, and I think that gives you some
good spacing.
Speaker 1: As we record this, they're over under a set at
fifty one point five. Taking everything into account, would you
go with the over the under on that?
Speaker 2: Every single year from of the entire I have taken
the over, and I think I've been right every single
year except for one in the Bubble where they lost
all those bubble games. If you're a call, so they
were on pace to beat it, and then they went
like two and eight in the Bubble to end the
season that technically put them as another. But I think
so so every year I've gone over. This might be
the first year where I'm tempted to take the under,
and I think I actually, I mean again, I have
a month I probably won't make this real pick until
I see preseason and see how some of this stuff
comes together. But at this very moment, I think under
might be the better play. And it's not because I
don't think they'll be good. They're just so thin and
there's so many question marks. Are they gonna get off
to a hot start? This is the least continuity we've seen.
I imagine there's gonna be a period of time where
they figure out who and what they are and what
their rotation is, So that hurts you a little bit.
The West is more loaded than ever, so I think
that hurts you a little bit. And then if any
of Jokic, Gordon or Murray or even Westbrook probably to
some degree miss any amount of time ten games, I
think Denver's going to struggle over that stretch. So I
think there's too many variables that would lead me to
think Denver wins fifty games this year, maybe fifty one
and not above. So this might be the first year
I take the under on Denver in the OCACHERA.
Speaker 1: Now when you give it through a championship equity perspective,
where you can kind of like, maybe they don't have
a great regular season, but you're looking at who can
win the title, where you think they stack up in
that Minnesota, Oklahoma City, Dallas tier of it on if
you want to throw another team from the like if
you think Phoenix is going to be on that level too.
Speaker 2: I do think Phoenix is on that level this year.
I am buying the moves.
Speaker 1: What's that there's no wings like?
Speaker 2: I just don't. I mean, look, they have their flaws.
They're like they've been in years past, and that their
hupside is so high, but they do have their tragic flaws.
But I think the things that have made them weak
in the past will be there a little bit. But
to me, it's matchups and I think Denver, if they
are healthy at the end of the season, I still
think that they're going to be a Tier one contender.
Boston has done it and they have a little bit
more well rounded in depth, so they might be the
favorite overall. But when I look at a Dallas also
a flawed team. I mean, even last year, as impressive
as it was that they went and they and they
went to the finals and they were very good, they
didn't look like an unbeatable team to me, especially out
West Minnesota is a great matchup for Denver, and I
think that they might even be a better matchup against
Denver than they were last year, just by account of
whatever you think of Russell Westbrook, however high you want
to be on, it fits and all of a sudden,
all the pieces fit. Minnesota is the type of team
though that they're gonna have people in the paint and
when you don't, when you have length on the perimeter
to close out and guys in the paint, like what
does Westbrook do? So I think Minnesota matches up with
Denver really well. I don't think they're better than Denver,
but I think they match up with Denver really well.
But I think Denver should be to me, alongside Phoenix, Dallas,
Minnesota if they get to the playoffs healthy, I think
they'll have a top seven that is as good as anyone,
and they'll have the best player in the series.
Speaker 1: Before I end my interrogation, is there anything about this
team I did not ask you about that you think
we need to touch upon before I let you skie
that them?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. You know, the contract piece of
this is important to me. Michael Malone, by the way,
is going to become here's what's so funny about it. So,
Michael Malone Collum Booth both need contract extensions. Right, Michael
Malone is nine games away from becoming the winningest coach
in Denver Nugget's history, currently held by Doug mo Doug
Moe's jersey is hung up in the raptors at Ball Arena.
That's what a figure he has. So you're talking about
a guy without a contract extension, and what direction do
you go forward if things go south? And oh, by
the way, this was going to be a season of
celebration of Michael Malone, So it's kind of a funny layer, right,
like he might get all these accolades and we're talking
about history and everything else, and oh, by the way,
you're out the door.
Speaker 1: If things don't go well, we could be in store
for some epic press conferences from this team, that from
Michael Malan specifically that throughout the season.
Speaker 2: I think that's definitely true. Michael Malone is the king
of that and I think Michael Malone will be musty
TV this year.
Speaker 1: Adam, this was great as always, Thank you so much
for your time. Are you just able to tell our
listeners and viewers where they could find you in all
the great work.
Speaker 2: They obviously DMBR nuggets. Most people watching this probably know that.
And then the All NBA Show, Me and Tim Legler
will be back hearing about a month or so. We'll
be back in about a month.
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm excited. That's real Seco stuff. You got to
do a great tige.
Speaker 2: He's the best man. And then this year we're adding
some new people to the rotation, so I'm excited for.
Speaker 1: That as well. Well. Thank you so much once again,
and as you know by now, I will be bestering
you again in the future.