Speaker 1: Well, here we are. It is officially Autumn Equinox. It's
Speaker 1: the beginning of autumn, September twenty second to the twenty third.
Speaker 1: It is an energy change and this is also a
Speaker 1: special edition of Earth Ages. This clip your host of
Speaker 1: Earth Ancients, and today we are presenting a look at
Speaker 1: the rainforest of the Amazon. In the book we're focusing
Speaker 1: on is Rainforest Medicine, which was written by Jonathan Miller
Speaker 1: Weisberger almost eleven years ago, and it's very appropriate today
Speaker 1: because we're talking about plant medicines from an ethnobotanist who
Speaker 1: can give us not only the insight on the medicines
Speaker 1: that are psychedelic based ayahuasca, DMT and other plant derivatives
Speaker 1: that cause us to leave our conscious minds and move
Speaker 1: into other dimensions, but it's a chance to also celebrate Earth,
Speaker 1: celebrate the changing seasons, and also consider how we move forward,
Speaker 1: what the next phase of our evolution is. You might say,
Speaker 1: how does that fit in with the Earth Ancients theme. Well,
Speaker 1: as you will hear we're talking about lost realms. You've
Speaker 1: heard of move which is also known as limoria. Of
Speaker 1: course we talk about Atlantis, but in part of our
Speaker 1: interview today there are regions of the Amazon that are
Speaker 1: recognized as being populated by people who migrated from Limoria
Speaker 1: and move and there's a there's a region that also
Speaker 1: was home to giants, people that were over seven feet
Speaker 1: tall and left their wisdom with the people known as
Speaker 1: the Sequoia Indians of the Amazon. And we're gonna learn
Speaker 1: about not only the giants, but some of the plant
Speaker 1: medicine wisdom that was handed down thousands and thousands of
Speaker 1: years ago. We don't hear enough about plant medicine used
Speaker 1: from ancient, an ancestral point of view, how our ancestors
Speaker 1: incorporated it. Another thing that I didn't realize is this
Speaker 1: book that we're talking about today gets into the proper
Speaker 1: preparations for ayahuasca and how to collect the leaves and
Speaker 1: who to work with, because there's a lot of different
Speaker 1: people who are claiming to be ayahuasca experts and this
Speaker 1: is becoming some kind of an industry, especially in Peru.
Speaker 1: We know that people like our friend Graham Hancock travels
Speaker 1: to Peru occasionally and partakes in ceremony vision quest. But
Speaker 1: you have to be very very careful who you get
Speaker 1: involved with. So there's steps in this book reinforest medicine,
Speaker 1: on how to look for the good shaman, how to partake,
Speaker 1: how to prepare a tea or a broth, and most importantly,
Speaker 1: how to prepare and what intentions to use for the
Speaker 1: ayahuasca ceremony. But again that's only part of our discussion.
Speaker 1: This is actually gets into some important anthropology, some archaeological
Speaker 1: parks that we will talk about archaeology as a whole,
Speaker 1: all in celebration of the autumn equinox. So today's program
Speaker 1: is Rainforest Medicine, and my guest is Jonathan Miller Weisberger. Hey,
Speaker 1: we're going to be in the jungle this December first
Speaker 1: through the twelfth on the Guatemala Sacred Temple Tour, and
Speaker 1: this is an opportunity not only to climb pyramids, but
Speaker 1: to interact with the local shaman in understanding what the
Speaker 1: Maya were up to, their state of mind and ceremony,
Speaker 1: to connect with the sacred temples and pyramids that we'll
Speaker 1: interact with. This is a chance to not only climb
Speaker 1: pyramids connect with them, but also to take in the
Speaker 1: spirit and the consciousness that is the genius of the Maya.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to join us, go to Earthancients dot com,
Speaker 1: forward slash Tours and you'll see all the details. To
Speaker 1: get details on the Guatemalo tour, send an email to
Speaker 1: me at Earth Ancients the number four the letter you
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com and join me for a private
Speaker 1: zoom conference with our hosts Lydia and Arturo Di Leong. Again.
Speaker 1: The Guatemalo tour is December first to the twelfth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. For more information, go to earth Agents dot com,
Speaker 1: forward slash Tours or send me an email earth Agents
Speaker 1: the number four the letter YOUU at gmail dot com
Speaker 1: for a discussion on just what we'll be doing. This
Speaker 1: tour is perfect for you.
Speaker 2: Another rain he as tonon. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: I just miss you more than anything.
Speaker 1: We haven't talked enough about the rainforest of the Amazon.
Speaker 1: When we had Graham Hancock on the program, he discussed
Speaker 1: his trips to the rainforest for ayahuasca journeys. And today
Speaker 1: we're talking with Jonathan Miller Weisberger, who is the author
Speaker 1: of Rainforest Medicine, and this is a book that came
Speaker 1: out in twenty thirteen that really highlights not only ayahuasca,
Speaker 1: but the sacred plants in the Amazon forest. And really
Speaker 1: what to look for when you're taking an eye I
Speaker 1: watch a journey. It's just a really well written book.
Speaker 1: But there's so much more we want to talk about today.
Speaker 1: So Jonathan, welcome to Earth Ancients. Great to have you
Speaker 1: on the program.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. An It's an honor and a
Speaker 3: joy to be here. Listens to program for quite a
Speaker 3: well known It's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I want to mention and get an idea from you.
Speaker 1: You're an ethnobotanist, which is really and I want to
Speaker 1: get your definition of it, because this is somebody who
Speaker 1: is relating plants to how people use those plants, but
Speaker 1: not only that, how plants can be turned into two food, clothing,
Speaker 1: and other I guess you could call them beneficial projects.
Speaker 1: Give me an idea of what you how you decided
Speaker 1: to become an ethno botanist, but also the region that
Speaker 1: you chose, which is Northern Amazon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean in the northern northeast from northwestern Amazon.
Speaker 3: Reasion is the pinnacles terrestrial botanical and biological diversity. But
Speaker 3: I was raised in Equator, so I guess the jungle
Speaker 3: chose me circumstances. I was raised in Equator and when
Speaker 3: I was about eleven, and then again thirteen years old,
Speaker 3: a friend of my parents was an ethnobotanist. We lost
Speaker 3: touch with and he hasn't have any publications. It's been
Speaker 3: a mystery. And he brought me to the Amazon with
Speaker 3: him and I helped him press plants. But what most
Speaker 3: impressed me is the seeing nettle bush. You know, I
Speaker 3: brushed up against the steeing nettle and now they're they're
Speaker 3: pretty potent. The nettles, all nettles, some especially where then
Speaker 3: other's been in the Amazon. They got some metals that
Speaker 3: you really feel it when they get you. I was
Speaker 3: just amazed that a plant can sting you. That really
Speaker 3: she brought me in. That was my first like. And
Speaker 3: then I learned that the use of the nettles, and
Speaker 3: later I'm living amongst the wallwood. I the what Arnie
Speaker 3: called the nettle the mother of all medicines. And it's
Speaker 3: because they use the nettle to transmit their energy to
Speaker 3: the younger generation. Like if a parent's come back from
Speaker 3: or a father comes back from a successful hunting trip,
Speaker 3: he'll grab the nettles and the kids will run off.
Speaker 3: He'll chase them down and he'll spank his the nettle
Speaker 3: on their on his child, and that asses that that
Speaker 3: success of the triumph of a good day onto their child.
Speaker 3: So the mother of the medicine, because the waite Arnies
Speaker 3: use very few medicinal plants because they're a remote wilderness
Speaker 3: tribe and they don't have many illnesses, is really how
Speaker 3: to transmit ones like chi they call your invite energy
Speaker 3: to onto their children. So it's interesting. But yeah, and
Speaker 3: so ethnobotany, you know, at in essence is the study
Speaker 3: of the relationship between people and plants. Ethnos, people and
Speaker 3: botany plants, and like you said, mentioned there's it's you know,
Speaker 3: ethnobotany is all the relate ways that we relate to plants.
Speaker 3: So later when I went on to study at the
Speaker 3: Humble State University.
Speaker 1: Humble, Northern California, Humble in San Francisco, that's my backyard. Wow. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: were you raised in like Eureka or where were you raised?
Speaker 3: No, I was actually I was born here in the
Speaker 3: East Bay in Berkeley, and okay, and I'm in al
Speaker 3: so Bronte, else Bronte. That's awesome. Yeah, I was raised
Speaker 3: in Equador. My parents had a Vegetarian Cultural Center in
Speaker 3: Ecuador when I was growing up, and there's a there's
Speaker 3: a book that spoke about them, called The Making of
Speaker 3: an un American, and there's a chapter in there where
Speaker 3: my mom she put a complaint to this supermarket where
Speaker 3: we used to go shopping, because they had the indigenous
Speaker 3: people would go to buy the dog meat, which was
Speaker 3: that they sold for dogs, which was actually quality beef,
Speaker 3: but just like you know, sides and pieces and or
Speaker 3: the bones. But they wouldn't let them buy there. And
Speaker 3: so my mom put a complaint and they got the
Speaker 3: the store owners to realize that there was no reason
Speaker 3: why they couldn't buy there, so then they were allowed
Speaker 3: to buy the natives there. So she was written up
Speaker 3: in the book. So I come from a family of
Speaker 3: you know, like activists, I guess you could say, working
Speaker 3: to improve the quality of life for other people, for
Speaker 3: the planet. And yeah, so that's about me. Is a
Speaker 3: fascinating way to you know, it's just led me on
Speaker 3: a lot of journeys ten years in the Amazon.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And so this book, this wonderful book you wrote,
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, Jonathan, was it because there was a
Speaker 1: growing interest in these ayahuasca journeys that you decided to
Speaker 1: give people a definition not only of the plant itself,
Speaker 1: the importance of the plant and how to journey correctly,
Speaker 1: but also who to do it with, what to look for,
Speaker 1: how to have an intention because you were working with
Speaker 1: the uh and we're gonna talk about this in a minute,
Speaker 1: the Sequoia people of the of the Amazon, and how
Speaker 1: the indigenous people were working with this psychedelic So, I mean,
Speaker 1: it seems because I mean, the book has so much
Speaker 1: more depth to it than what I'm mentioning, but it
Speaker 1: seems like it's your helpful guide to psychedelics and the
Speaker 1: importance of having good intention to talk about that because
Speaker 1: so much of the book is really not only focused
Speaker 1: on ayahuasca. But I guess you call it yeah yahee
Speaker 1: as well yeah hey yeah he yeah yeah right.
Speaker 3: Well. I worked between nineteen ninety and the year two thousands,
Speaker 3: and when I was studying botany at humble Se University
Speaker 3: of Music, about the music of the plants, I returned tequitor.
Speaker 3: It took a year leave of absence that turned into
Speaker 3: ten years, and because it was just too exciting, my
Speaker 3: parents supported me too on it, and I worked with
Speaker 3: an organization who, well, at first a prior student a
Speaker 3: Humboldt State who I'm still very close friends with, founded
Speaker 3: an organization in Equator that started a biological reserve called
Speaker 3: hatun Sascha the Big Forest. And so I went to
Speaker 3: volunteer on the creation of minicial plank Guard and I
Speaker 3: got in touch with them and they said they're starting,
Speaker 3: they need some volunteers. So simultaneously there was another organization
Speaker 3: called the Reinforced Information Center that was organizing this project
Speaker 3: to begin the demarcation of the waward Any People's ancestr homelands.
Speaker 3: The what any people received one thing, it's about one
Speaker 3: third of their ancestral lands, which is a huge area.
Speaker 3: It was probably like a few million acres. And it
Speaker 3: was an oil company road that went down south to
Speaker 3: this colonization frontier town called Coca, and so it was
Speaker 3: a canyon of colonization. So it was one hundred and
Speaker 3: thirty kilometers that we had to create the boundary lines
Speaker 3: of so that the colonists in this canyon of colonization
Speaker 3: wouldn't go into the wa Ani territory to make their adjudication.
Speaker 3: I'm irrelevant at ground level that was there's a chapter
Speaker 3: in the book that I talked someone about that the
Speaker 3: deep forest perspective of the Wildernie. And anyway, I worked
Speaker 3: a bunch of years in the Amazon before we could
Speaker 3: say Ayahuasca became or yahi became popular. And then after
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five the project with the wat Onnie came
Speaker 3: to a conclusion. But some close friends of mine had
Speaker 3: been working with the Sieko Pie or the Sequoia, a
Speaker 3: province to the north of where the ones lived in
Speaker 3: the Equador in Amazon, and so I went to go
Speaker 3: collaborate there because I was always fascinated by the Sequoia
Speaker 3: because when I was a kid growing up in Ecuador,
Speaker 3: there was a postcard that you would see at a
Speaker 3: lot of the gift shops, and it was a face
Speaker 3: and he's a photo of like two elders, very happy, smiling,
Speaker 3: just ribbing, a smile familiar to ear, with a feathered
Speaker 3: crown and flowers in their ears. I was like, these
Speaker 3: guys are amazing. The imagery stuck with me and said
Speaker 3: those are the so my I finally had the opportunity
Speaker 3: to go down there with some friends, and I went
Speaker 3: and then I became friends off the first trip with
Speaker 3: who became my maestro, Don Cesardio Piaguay. May his name
Speaker 3: be a blessing to all that here. He passed a
Speaker 3: year and a half ago at one hundred and twenty
Speaker 3: amazing years of age. He had great age, one hundred
Speaker 3: and twenty, one hundred and twenty. He passed on Eastern Friday,
Speaker 3: and he was laid to rest on the Resurrection Sunday.
Speaker 1: And so was he was he a shaman.
Speaker 3: He was a yahead drinker with the way the sequoia
Speaker 3: caused yahe and cuckoo. The yeah, they don't use the
Speaker 3: word sharming, but yeah, that's the equivalent a yahead drinker.
Speaker 3: He was a high level maestro the yahid realities, and
Speaker 3: the great healer and a great friend and anyone whoever
Speaker 3: came met him, and a very accomplished healer too, a
Speaker 3: spiritual healer who he could help woman. He learned from
Speaker 3: the celestial Doan immortals that he would commune with a
Speaker 3: magic cure where he would enchant invocation over a cotton
Speaker 3: flower just recently opening up cotton flower, and then and
Speaker 3: then with that she would help women who weren't able
Speaker 3: to conceive to have children. That's one of his famous attributes,
Speaker 3: And there was a French woman who came who her
Speaker 3: husband had an eco lodge up river. They couldn't have children,
Speaker 3: and she has like three children now thanks to hint too. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so he's a very effective filer on that level and
Speaker 3: then the other levels. Yeah, don't Socidia. So I we
Speaker 3: became friends, and he invited me back, and he was
Speaker 3: amazed that I had worked amongst the wilde any Indians.
Speaker 3: And he said, if I learned how to make the
Speaker 3: arrow poisons, And sure enough I had actually studied the
Speaker 3: making of the arrow poison among the waite Anie from
Speaker 3: a from a waite Antie by the name of Webbe.
Speaker 3: Grandfather Wepe and Houstle lived a great age. Webbe in
Speaker 3: the last month of his life, he never laid down.
Speaker 3: He just sat up until and without eating for a
Speaker 3: whole month. He was also great age, well over one
Speaker 3: hundred and when he laid down, he was on the
Speaker 3: other side. And I visited Webbe and worked with him.
Speaker 3: Finally we met on the boundary line demarcation. But finally
Speaker 3: I went. I took a four day journey across the
Speaker 3: territory to his home and spent a month there. And
Speaker 3: it was amazing. And when I was living with him,
Speaker 3: he would never lay down. I got to see that firsthand,
Speaker 3: like what they talk about in Chuangsu, the wise men
Speaker 3: of old, like thousands of years back, still in existence.
Speaker 3: He would never lay down. And I had read I
Speaker 3: was moved by the French anthropologist uh Levy Strauss's book Tropeque.
Speaker 3: I read that. So he said that to studying the natives,
Speaker 3: he wanted to be the first one up and the
Speaker 3: last one to sleep. So I tried that, and Web
Speaker 3: immediately knew what I was up there. She would when
Speaker 3: I'd fall asleep, and he'd come and light my fire
Speaker 3: and wake up, and he's giggled and like retreating to
Speaker 3: his to his hammock, like Katia, you never to be
Speaker 3: the first one up or the last one to sleep here, buddy.
Speaker 3: Let that settle in for a while, you know. And
Speaker 3: he would literally never lay down. He never laid down
Speaker 3: the whole month that was there. So but I learned
Speaker 3: the water on the arrow poisoning technique from whip it,
Speaker 3: and so I taught society. We went out to the
Speaker 3: forest in the sequor tert where we found the plants,
Speaker 3: and his wife made the clay pot so we made it,
Speaker 3: and then we went out hunting with the blowpipe he had,
Speaker 3: and sure enough we stuck a wild boar and the
Speaker 3: thing ran off like a little bit and dropped, and
Speaker 3: he was just like amazed. He couldn't believe it. They
Speaker 3: we're smoking meat. He's like that. Then that's like huge
Speaker 3: to the Sequoia is to be smoking a wild boar.
Speaker 3: And then you start talking real story, you know. And
Speaker 3: then so he's like, what, we got to drink your head?
Speaker 3: And I was like sure, I'd love to, and so
Speaker 3: we started drinking yeah hey, And then I was blown
Speaker 3: to a million pieces and managed to pull myself back together.
Speaker 1: That the first time you had yeah hey? Uh you
Speaker 1: know while you were down there, or had you had
Speaker 1: ayahuasca or other psychedelics.
Speaker 3: I had tried to the ayahuasca once when I was
Speaker 3: thirteen years old with my friend Fred, who brought my
Speaker 3: mother's friend who brought me to the Amazon who's death
Speaker 3: no botanist, and he said that I couldn't. He was
Speaker 3: going to be away for the night and I just
Speaker 3: to stay in this lot. And then then so I
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, right, I'm saying. So when he left,
Speaker 3: I followed him. I snuck behind him because I wasn't
Speaker 3: going to stay in this hut on the forest all alone.
Speaker 3: I'm following Fred because I was thirteen. He was my mentor,
Speaker 3: like my father there and so I and I was like,
Speaker 3: so I snuck behind him, and then he got to
Speaker 3: the ceremony lodge and then I walked in and once
Speaker 3: the tradition is that you get to the ceremony lodge
Speaker 3: right before a ceremony, you can't leave. You have to
Speaker 3: stay there to the night. So they ended up giving
Speaker 3: me the drink because they asked me directly, you want
Speaker 3: I was like sure.
Speaker 1: So Fred was like, uh oh, my my god.
Speaker 3: I must have said, whatever you do, don't give any
Speaker 3: of that. And then I drank it when I was thirteen.
Speaker 3: But I mean, really with the sequoias is then when
Speaker 3: I started having the really full blown experiences, you know,
Speaker 3: because we were drinking and doing society was prepared very strong.
Speaker 3: You taught me how I was. I became designated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he cook, so you understand the combination to make
Speaker 1: a a ayahuasca brew.
Speaker 3: Correct. In my book, I described that chapter five, Preparing
Speaker 3: a proper Brew. I was the chef for five years
Speaker 3: for the Master and when you cook it wrong, he'll
Speaker 3: get a headache and he can't sing. And he said,
Speaker 3: I would be out in the forest cooking and I
Speaker 3: do what I'd make a mistake, and that night you
Speaker 3: have a headache. The Master's like, we're not going to
Speaker 3: drink this. And he explains to me what I did wrong.
Speaker 3: He said, son, you took off your tunic right when
Speaker 3: when you were cooking. I was like, I did because
Speaker 3: it was so hot. He said, then you can't because
Speaker 3: you're you have to fast all day when cooking the
Speaker 3: yeah and something, and then you have to like down
Speaker 3: there it was rough. You have to haul water from
Speaker 3: the slip creek up the slippery muddy bank.
Speaker 1: Subtle preparation that have to be followed for the brew
Speaker 1: to be just right.
Speaker 3: For sure. It's a lot of a lot of things.
Speaker 3: And so she saw he and the visions that I
Speaker 3: basically took off my two and then you have you
Speaker 3: dumped the brew, bad brew. Dump it. But when you
Speaker 3: finally get it right and everything comes together, the Master,
Speaker 3: like you know, he puts us both of his hands
Speaker 3: together up into the sky, and when he opens his hands,
Speaker 3: the most exquisite reality you can ever imagine, just comes
Speaker 3: cascading down. You're just engulfs and you're in heaven.
Speaker 1: Talk about your understanding of the history of ayahuasca and
Speaker 1: ya hey, because it seems to me that it's been
Speaker 1: taken out of context. Now it's like I want a trip,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to Peru to do so ayahuasca. What
Speaker 1: is it traditionally or from an indigenous perspective?
Speaker 3: What does it use for that's a great question. Let
Speaker 3: me get to Let me just summarize the last question.
Speaker 3: So that the book came came out later many years later,
Speaker 3: seeing that this is, you know, traveling the world over.
Speaker 3: The book came out of more of an active social
Speaker 3: responsibility because it's it's quite a bit of work. At
Speaker 3: the time, I was already in full swing and running
Speaker 3: the eco Lodge. And also so I'd wake up at
Speaker 3: three in the morning. For three straight years, I woke
Speaker 3: up at three in the morning till sunrise. It was
Speaker 3: the only time I had to work without interruptions. And
Speaker 3: I wrote the book more, as I say, not the
Speaker 3: social responsibility to share the some of the information and
Speaker 3: the oral traditions. Because plants, they travel, but the oral
Speaker 3: tradition gets left behind, and that's the pinka. The pinta
Speaker 3: is like the spiritual cloud. That's why, like when the
Speaker 3: eye has harvested, you have to harvest it slowly and
Speaker 3: put it down. You can't throw it down so that
Speaker 3: the pinta doesn't get disturbed. The energetic essence that like
Speaker 3: engulfs the vine and that's easy to disperse. And so
Speaker 3: that's the one thing is alkaloid soup. Another thing is
Speaker 3: like an ecstatically charged sacred beverage. That's that is owned
Speaker 3: by the celestial divine immortals and we're just just for
Speaker 3: a little bit we can experience what the reality is like.
Speaker 3: And so that's the that's the purpose of the And
Speaker 3: so yeah, the hopefully of the book is to sort
Speaker 3: of kind of guide this ayahuasca or yahi bards that's
Speaker 3: floating the world over and guide it steered an auspicious
Speaker 3: directions so that the original intentions of this can be
Speaker 3: what prevails, which is as a medicine to heal all
Speaker 3: kinds of things. This can heal from physical elements like
Speaker 3: cancer to like CycL you know, to like you know,
Speaker 3: emotional things to help people find their life path. When
Speaker 3: it's so the proper intentions of the yahey in yahuasca
Speaker 3: are are positive to help make the world a better
Speaker 3: place and community on the personal, community and planetary level.
Speaker 3: But of course, up one of the International Irbal Symposiums
Speaker 3: two years ago, I was invited to give a talk
Speaker 3: precisely this topic, and so I thought about it quite
Speaker 3: a bit, and I came up with the with the
Speaker 3: title for the talk. It was called And there's a
Speaker 3: blog on my that we'll mention at the end of
Speaker 3: my website too, about this the delicate nature, right, the
Speaker 3: delicate nature of ayahuasca, and yeah, hey and so and so.
Speaker 3: I asked the question to a group of maybe fifty
Speaker 3: or sixty participants. I said, who here has seen has
Speaker 3: participated in yaousca ceremony? And almost everyone rose her hands.
Speaker 3: And I asked, how many people have seen the nyausca ceremony,
Speaker 3: go haywire, and like eighty percent of the you know
Speaker 3: the people rose your hand. And I've heard one too
Speaker 3: many stories of people having you know, like getting knocked
Speaker 3: off course, kind of like Humpty dumpty fell off the wall, right,
Speaker 3: But who's there to put the peace?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Off the court? You mean a
Speaker 1: bad trip or just poor guidance?
Speaker 3: Well, a lot of things can converge and people. Sometimes
Speaker 3: you have spoken to people that have bad trips and
Speaker 3: left them frailed and shattered. So the purpose and then
Speaker 3: like not knowing what they're doing with themselves totally discombobulated,
Speaker 3: like nothing that we could call positive because they're confused.
Speaker 3: So the proper intention when this is upheld properly, people
Speaker 3: leave the ceremony completely integrated, charge the room with positive energy,
Speaker 3: with a clear understanding what their life purposes and understanding
Speaker 3: of maybe what's been going on with them how to
Speaker 3: improve their life. Some people radically change their life. They
Speaker 3: have the courage to maybe just drop what they were
Speaker 3: doing because they know it's not the correct thing for
Speaker 3: them to follow their highest path like to you know,
Speaker 3: like get out of the karmen into the dharma, so
Speaker 3: to say, you know, so they become spiritual too, like
Speaker 3: people when so the positive effects of it are are
Speaker 3: is what your original intentions are. And so back to
Speaker 3: your question is the indigenous people For them, this is
Speaker 3: a sacred medicine that's used to for many reasons, but
Speaker 3: you know, basically to up you know, to merge with
Speaker 3: what they call like a celestial wind or an energy
Speaker 3: alignment that gives them the energy to live, you know,
Speaker 3: more joyously in the wilderness, because to live in the
Speaker 3: wilderness is not an easy thing, so you need energy
Speaker 3: for that. So it gives them energy. And then it's
Speaker 3: also the school of life or their own basically Native
Speaker 3: indigenous university, because they learn the cosmology bursthand by experiencing
Speaker 3: the cosmology. So the yahe is used for on oral
Speaker 3: transmission of the oral traditions. And then it's completely taken
Speaker 3: out of context now of course in the modern times.
Speaker 3: But since this is the Earth Ancients podcast, let me
Speaker 3: share before we go into modern day uses one of
Speaker 3: the oldest stories I know because I asked Don Delphine
Speaker 3: pay why may his memory be a blessing for all
Speaker 3: who knew him as well? One of the great traditional
Speaker 3: ethors who passed some years ago. Now she was the
Speaker 3: master of silence, because of course we relate ayahuasca ceremonies
Speaker 3: to you know, chanting and singing, and the sequoia have
Speaker 3: incredible songs. There's some they call them the he hen yeah.
Speaker 3: And then another kind of song is the weenia kaye,
Speaker 3: which is a call and response between the participants in
Speaker 3: the ceremony. And the divine immortals, the weenia pay. So
Speaker 3: the fundamental purpose of yahe Sequoia drinking is to basically
Speaker 3: understand the truth of the weenia pie the divine immortals.
Speaker 3: And Weenya is a beautiful word because weenia means like
Speaker 3: burgoning or crispy, ultra fluffy clean, or like it can
Speaker 3: be compared to like young young young flower just opening,
Speaker 3: or the butterfly that just comes out, or the down
Speaker 3: of the baby bird, the most ultra ultra clean, ultra
Speaker 3: fluffy clean like phenomena.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So it is the is the ween ya. So the
Speaker 3: Wenia pinea, the divine immortals always new divineing mortals. So
Speaker 3: the sequoia drink that I had to understand the truth
Speaker 3: and the reality of these divine immortals, which are the
Speaker 3: you can be looked at as the extensions of of
Speaker 3: God or the Creator, the great Spirit, the subtle origin
Speaker 3: that goes through all the dimensional realities without out the
Speaker 3: eluding assessence. Anything that touches the windia bind becomes divine,
Speaker 3: is more divine, so we become healed. That's why people
Speaker 3: who drink I understand their life purpose because the windia
Speaker 3: pine anything that is in touch with that celestial type
Speaker 3: of energy basically becomes a whole.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
Speaker 1: my guest today, Jonathan Miller Wisberger, discussing his book Rainforest Medicine,
Speaker 1: will be right back. We're talking plant medicines, most notably
Speaker 1: ayahuasca in our program today and the book we are
Speaker 1: focusing on is Rainforest Medicine. With my guest today, Jonathan
Speaker 1: Miller Weisberger. Do they talk about the ancestors, the ancestral
Speaker 1: history of the plant usage and sacred plants and how
Speaker 1: far back it goes?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, they go. I asked done Delphine, which is
Speaker 3: the oldest or the first legend of the head that
Speaker 3: he knows. He shared me with the story. That's just remarkable.
Speaker 3: So before humanity existed on the planet, it's like long
Speaker 3: before there were any ancestors of the human us humans
Speaker 3: here Yan Yeah, or also known as Pina, the Creator,
Speaker 3: which was created the Earth, not the universe, but created
Speaker 3: the Earth and formed many animals and also created humanity,
Speaker 3: was experimenting with different types of beings and he brought
Speaker 3: to the earth the ni pie, and so Nigh is
Speaker 3: the dawn or the dusk. So these are the dawn
Speaker 3: or dusk immortals. And he brought them to the earth.
Speaker 3: And Creator had two bundles. The story goes that one
Speaker 3: was a day bundle and the other was a night bundle.
Speaker 3: And so he would open the day bundle and out
Speaker 3: would come to day, and then you would close it
Speaker 3: and it would put the day away, and then you'd
Speaker 3: open the night bundle, and that would come to night
Speaker 3: and all the stars. So the Creator went on a
Speaker 3: walk and he he he he had in formed the
Speaker 3: night pie no one to mess with his bundles, you know,
Speaker 3: not no one touched my bundles, he would say. And
Speaker 3: so he went on the walk, and then the night fell.
Speaker 3: So he knew one of the knight Pie was mischievous
Speaker 3: and went against his word and opened the night bundle.
Speaker 3: And so he started to break sticks along the trails
Speaker 3: that when the day came he would find his way back.
Speaker 3: But he came across the ceremony of yah hey that
Speaker 3: was occurring, because the Sequois say that yeahe. Many different
Speaker 3: legions of divine immortals have the yah For example, the Nypie.
Speaker 3: These immortals have yeah he as well as like the
Speaker 3: Usseppo Pie, the sndianmmortals have yeah hey. The high Quinti
Speaker 3: Pai that are inside the Earth in the holographic Universe
Speaker 3: universal vision of the Earth is inside is like a heaven.
Speaker 3: So inside the Earth there's alternate dimensions where these high
Speaker 3: Quintipai exists, and those are the they have yeahey as well.
Speaker 3: So in this case, the Nightpie were in the ceremony,
Speaker 3: Yeah hey, Concho Pie. The Psykata psychicata in worlds have
Speaker 3: yeahey as well, and so one other there was a
Speaker 3: master sitting on the bench blowing on the yah and
Speaker 3: one of the drinkers went up and said, Master, I
Speaker 3: wanted in the future, when the people exist on the planet,
Speaker 3: they're going to damage, They're going to ruin this beautiful paradise.
Speaker 3: I want to have the powers to stop that from happening.
Speaker 3: And so he gave them. He blew on the yahey
Speaker 3: so that that person, that Knightpie, would have those powers.
Speaker 3: And then the Knight Pie went and said Master, in
Speaker 3: the future, I want to just live simply the want,
Speaker 3: and so I'm blowing the powers for me to live simple,
Speaker 3: and so the Master blew on the powers from to
Speaker 3: live simply. Another one went and said, Master, I want
Speaker 3: to have the powers to heal with the singing nettle.
Speaker 3: Give me. And so so he blew on the powers
Speaker 3: so that he could heal with singing metal. When the
Speaker 3: day came and the Creator came back and he brought
Speaker 3: all the knight Pie together, he scolded them. He said,
Speaker 3: you all, someone amongst you touched the day and night bundles,
Speaker 3: which I had said not to touch. And so he
Speaker 3: took a bundle in each hand and he clapped his hands,
Speaker 3: Creator ah, and the cloud clap came out in all directions.
Speaker 3: In that moment, the day and the night became the
Speaker 3: same amount of time. He unified the day of the
Speaker 3: night on the ear, so it's twelve hours and twelve hours,
Speaker 3: and the Knypie he sent them back to their realm.
Speaker 3: But many of them transformed into different animals right when
Speaker 3: that clap happened, mostly when flying back to the other
Speaker 3: to their immortal abode, and some turned into wild boarers,
Speaker 3: others turned into into pirates. And the Master that that
Speaker 3: was blowing the ahe he transformed into the Mikaka, which
Speaker 3: is the Amazonian cupra it's a giant venomous snake.
Speaker 1: That is.
Speaker 3: His bench that he was sitting on transformed into a turtle.
Speaker 3: The knypie that wanted to in the future harm people
Speaker 3: top of people from you know, existing it was transforming
Speaker 3: to the non poisonous snakes. The one that wanted to
Speaker 3: just live simply was transformed into the poisonous snakes. And
Speaker 3: I have quite a bit of experience with them. When
Speaker 3: you live in the jungle, you come across them, and
Speaker 3: the venomous snakes are not aggressive unless they're molested, and
Speaker 3: so when you're poison it's easier for them to hunt.
Speaker 3: So that the one who wanted to live simply was
Speaker 3: transformed into the non venomous snake, and then the one
Speaker 3: who wanted to learn how to heal with the thing
Speaker 3: that was transformed to the giant caterpillar.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh are we supposed to uh use ayahuasca? You
Speaker 1: know in a lifetime? Is I mean, is it your
Speaker 1: belief as someone who prepares the brew, that it's it's
Speaker 1: made for people to awaken?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, it has a it has a place. At
Speaker 3: the time, the sequoia has learned the tradition of ye
Speaker 3: from the yan Nyanya Skopai. Yanye is the name of
Speaker 3: creator and sieko Pai is multi colored people from God's
Speaker 3: multicolored people. There's a legend that in this room of
Speaker 3: my book they were they encountered the squois were like
Speaker 3: nomadic swid and agriculturalists. There were loin cloths, and they
Speaker 3: encountered this group of divine immortals that were striped multicolored tunics,
Speaker 3: and they had these bushes cane bushes were the hum
Speaker 3: and out of them would come flying from the tips
Speaker 3: beautifully redesceded bluebirds. And they taught to Sekoyas how to
Speaker 3: prepare the yaha for the sunrise renewal to vomit at
Speaker 3: three in the morning, and then how to prepare yahi
Speaker 3: water we drink a bunch of that, and then how
Speaker 3: to do the graduation yeah what they call yah the
Speaker 3: yah or oh yeah, that has the consistency of honey,
Speaker 3: very thick. They taught them everything how to prepare. But
Speaker 3: sure enough, some of the Sekois this obeyed some of
Speaker 3: the hierarch some of the basically guidelines they laid out,
Speaker 3: and so they disappeared when they vanished. But the Sequoias
Speaker 3: in that encounter completely transformed their culture. Now they start
Speaker 3: to wear tunics and cross necklaces and feathered crowns, and
Speaker 3: they learn many many wisdoms from them, how to recuperate
Speaker 3: or nature, and so indigenous mythology and cosmology has to
Speaker 3: be interpreted. And that's part of my task is to
Speaker 3: find the modern day interpretation of ancient truths without diluting
Speaker 3: the essence of this right. And so the fact that
Speaker 3: to the multicolored people, God's multicolored people, this shows it's
Speaker 3: I guess we could say it's similar to the eging
Speaker 3: the eaching. It's like it could have been right, it
Speaker 3: could have been all in Chinese calligraphy that only you know,
Speaker 3: people that understand that could understand. Well, it's no, it
Speaker 3: was in a very simple, broken and whole line terminology.
Speaker 3: So it's definitely the eaching is a universal tool. So
Speaker 3: you know, many Daoist you know, scholars have gone through
Speaker 3: great efforts seeing the value and seeing the oneness of
Speaker 3: humanity to you know, make lucid modern day renderings like
Speaker 3: the New Masternee. Watching these versions of each thing that
Speaker 3: I've studied extensively has helped me a lot for all
Speaker 3: my projects. But so the Yaha tradition as well. It's
Speaker 3: it's indeed one of the great world heritage traditions that's
Speaker 3: here to help humanity. And what's important is that it's
Speaker 3: used correctly. It's like the sword, a double edged sword,
Speaker 3: you know, of the master's sort in the novice's hand.
Speaker 3: You know, like you know, there's so good can come
Speaker 3: from it as well as harm. So the important thing
Speaker 3: is the guidelines. That's what the book is intended to share,
Speaker 3: that guide this in the auspicious direction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Graham talks about the use of ayahuasca in his
Speaker 1: book Hallucinations as a evolutionary tool, and I'd like to
Speaker 1: hear from you on that topic, where sacred journeys are
Speaker 1: used to understand what the future is looking like, where
Speaker 1: the problems are, and how to set up the next
Speaker 1: move and the next the life.
Speaker 3: Ayahuasca has always been used to transform culture to live
Speaker 3: a life more aligned. It shows that basically, like you know,
Speaker 3: the way to you know, to salvation can only happen
Speaker 3: when we align with the integral salvation because the illusion
Speaker 3: of duality, there's not a you or an I to save.
Speaker 3: It's like everything together, you know, basically, when it aligns
Speaker 3: that's why it's called the integral salvation. But each person
Speaker 3: we cultivate ourselves. If one person saves themselves, you know,
Speaker 3: then that that's going to be you know, step in
Speaker 3: the right directory for all all life, all humanity. So
Speaker 3: these tools help us to align with spiritual reality. What's
Speaker 3: phenomenal too, is that no matter what religious you know,
Speaker 3: belief someone might have the yah hey or ayahuasca, it
Speaker 3: doesn't go against that. It's not a religion or a
Speaker 3: culture to spiritual reality. It helps any person wherever they are,
Speaker 3: with whatever ideology or whatever belief their purpose, find that clarify,
Speaker 3: oxygenate their their place in the mosaic of life. And
Speaker 3: it just has to be used correctly. For example, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of medications now that are contradicative. People on
Speaker 3: certain medications, if they were to take this, they could
Speaker 3: be greatly harmed different kinds of like and you know,
Speaker 3: there's more and more medications different like antidepressants basically because
Speaker 3: the you know, it's a certain.
Speaker 1: Anti psychotics, I mean they're everywhere precisely.
Speaker 3: So that's that's something for modern day people that really
Speaker 3: has to be looked into before they embark on the
Speaker 3: Niawak contry. They have to make sure they're they're qualified. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, if it's a special plant medicine, should we use
Speaker 1: it more than once in a lifetime? I mean other
Speaker 1: than a I mean I'm wondering, because when I hear
Speaker 1: people doing multiple journeys, I'm thinking, Okay, this is a
Speaker 1: this is a kind of a fun game for them.
Speaker 1: But somebody who's serious about it, like you are, who's
Speaker 1: written an entire book about it, what's your interpretation on
Speaker 1: the usage?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's such a vast phenomenon. But basically,
Speaker 3: there's a story of a person in nineteen thirties from
Speaker 3: Colombia that came to the Sequoid territory and drank one
Speaker 3: well place ceremony, just boom, the proper one, and he
Speaker 3: became a famous healer that never drank iOS again. He
Speaker 3: just became a famous healer that used many kinds of
Speaker 3: methods to healer. I forget this person's name, but he
Speaker 3: became a well known, renowned, very famous healer in Columbia.
Speaker 3: And the Sequoias they go back all the time. This is,
Speaker 3: you know, because they want to stay aligned and keep
Speaker 3: the energy because it's easy to drift and go out
Speaker 3: of balance. So, but so there's everything from in between
Speaker 3: from you know, going back regularly to drinking once and
Speaker 3: letting that one time and you know, like basically affect
Speaker 3: the rest of your life. There's a I wanted to
Speaker 3: hear something about the you know, how vast the ways
Speaker 3: this is used and as an example of how I
Speaker 3: was because it always used to improve the person's life.
Speaker 3: In the Colombian coastal region of the Choko, amongst the
Speaker 3: Afro Colombians, there black Colombians on the coast of very
Speaker 3: remote wilderness areas where they live on the Pacific coast
Speaker 3: of Columbias and natives. They're natives, they're blacks. But even
Speaker 3: in Equador, indigenous Afro Equadors have been declared they're very
Speaker 3: different than they're more like Africans because these people up
Speaker 3: into the nineteen thirties, it was only there was African
Speaker 3: tongues still being spoken in coastal Ecuador from escaped slaves
Speaker 3: from these slave boats, and so these wilderness, tropical wildness
Speaker 3: areas were very much like Equatorial Africa, and so it's
Speaker 3: really amazing. So and then they merged with the indigenous peoples, right,
Speaker 3: a lot of beautiful culture have come out of that marimba.
Speaker 3: And but they learned the use of ayahuasca. But I
Speaker 3: learned a very strange use. So these these Afro Colombians
Speaker 3: and would drink what they call the pinde, they drink
Speaker 3: the syauasca beverage. And then they'd sit down, squatting down
Speaker 3: with their head between their knees, and the master would
Speaker 3: with a vine of the ayahuasca vine would walk around,
Speaker 3: you know, swinging this violin there slowly like this in
Speaker 3: the air. And then at some point in the night,
Speaker 3: like at randomly, he just like swipe it down onto
Speaker 3: the back of one of the participants, random like just
Speaker 3: she's in the transit of the medicine too. And in
Speaker 3: that moment they'd get up and scream, and they're screaming.
Speaker 3: They'd see in their vision where on the river was
Speaker 3: the gold deposits, and they'd use it to find gold. Wow,
Speaker 3: and it actually worked, well that's how they use it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they would work, they'd find the gold amazed. So that's
Speaker 3: a strange, very strange use. But basically the ihusca offers
Speaker 3: a soccer right in that case is like getting whip
Speaker 3: by the master mastroom and then so like in other cases,
Speaker 3: you know, it always so that the minimal cases, that's
Speaker 3: why the people fast. The sequoia is fast all day.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of amazed how in Lahuasca traditions, I've seen
Speaker 3: people that don't fast, but the Sequoias they fast all
Speaker 3: day because they you know, they they're gonna put something
Speaker 3: so holy in their body that they wanted to be
Speaker 3: the only thing about the experiences if you're had breakfast, sunch,
Speaker 3: and dinner, that's the body is absorbing all the nutritients
Speaker 3: from all those foods. Right.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a very special part of the world,
Speaker 1: that Central American area. Is there any legends of it
Speaker 1: being related to the ancient place of Limoria, which is
Speaker 1: also known as MoU uh i mean, and and we
Speaker 1: we don't know a great deal about that place because
Speaker 1: it's you know, ancient tens of thousands of years ago.
Speaker 1: But is there any any legends or any related to
Speaker 1: the use of ayahuasca or yahi by these ancient people.
Speaker 3: With MoU I think the plant that goes back there
Speaker 3: is the lotus. The lotus is considered to be the
Speaker 3: oldest known cultagen and it comes originally from MoU from
Speaker 3: Limuria and there's a legend. Let's go back to cosa ekanaw.
Speaker 3: So in the year two thousand and I returned to
Speaker 3: basically you know the millennium bugs at me into another
Speaker 3: part another wilderness area, the Oxcept Peninsula. For like lived
Speaker 3: out there, built this eco lodge and for the first
Speaker 3: fifteen years we had a very limited solar system and
Speaker 3: had to only access was by boat. After an hour
Speaker 3: boat drive, we had the land up on the beach
Speaker 3: and now we had we built up with the Ocean
Speaker 3: Forest Eco Lodge and it's our family business. We have
Speaker 3: a beautiful visitor center right on the beach run by
Speaker 3: Rainforest and at the potential garden. The Sequoia elders have
Speaker 3: visited many times back in the day and we hold
Speaker 3: our annual Rainforest Medicine Council gathering retreats there and then
Speaker 3: so I had also mentioned the Living Bridges Foundation. So
Speaker 3: the founder of the Living Bridges is a woman named
Speaker 3: Donna Ronald's a very dear friend of mine who worked
Speaker 3: many years in Peru with the Ketto natives with water projects,
Speaker 3: and so she was very inspired by the work of
Speaker 3: Doune an Equador with High Indian natives to as well
Speaker 3: with different water projects that we've done there to help
Speaker 3: imput the life of Purua. Indigenous families were in a
Speaker 3: combative with the people had to go elect basically forty
Speaker 3: an hour by donkey to get water from the creeks,
Speaker 3: and now they have, you know, water in their communities.
Speaker 3: We did this whole engineering, really amazing projects. So that
Speaker 3: joined me onto the Living Bridges Foundations many years ago,
Speaker 3: and then I'm a board member of the foundation and
Speaker 3: the Donna. So some in two thousand and seven, it
Speaker 3: was she contacted me and said that she's been organizing
Speaker 3: these talks for these Taoist masters in the in the
Speaker 3: Bay Area and they had asked her about Costadika, a
Speaker 3: site called the Kanye Island because they heard there's these
Speaker 3: petro spheres there and if they if she knew anybody,
Speaker 3: and and because they wanted to visit. So of course
Speaker 3: she contacted me because I have the lodge. So she's like,
Speaker 3: do you know what what what lodge? Can we say?
Speaker 3: That's the closest we can get to the Kanye Island.
Speaker 3: I was like, Donald, not just because they're great friends
Speaker 3: and I want to hear, but actually our lodge is
Speaker 3: the closest you can get to the Kanye Islands.
Speaker 1: Really it is.
Speaker 3: You can see it right out in front of the
Speaker 3: lodge is the Kanye Island. And so they so of course,
Speaker 3: so then they booked her stay and they came and
Speaker 3: so we went to pick him up. And I having
Speaker 3: a friend, don't man Meeto Morales, who's in his nineties
Speaker 3: now still doing good, who's a blunka elder, Indigenous elder.
Speaker 3: And he years ago came out to visit us. We
Speaker 3: became friends and stayed at our lodge like eight years,
Speaker 3: just lived with us out there, and so he was
Speaker 3: living with us, and so I was really excited, so
Speaker 3: I told him because they wanted so I said, I
Speaker 3: have an indigenous elders. This will be awesome because I
Speaker 3: think it'd be really important for the meeting of the minds,
Speaker 3: you know, because they wanted to visit these spears, and
Speaker 3: they said, No Memo knows the stories of all these fears.
Speaker 3: So they were really excited. I have a blog on
Speaker 3: an article about this is called c d the ninth
Speaker 3: dimensional goddess that protects the Eosa Peninsula. And so we
Speaker 3: met No Memo. We met with the Taoist masters. They came.
Speaker 3: We went to different sites near Palmarrto where the ancient
Speaker 3: petro spheres are found. And I'm going to get to
Speaker 3: Limoria in a bit, because the sphears have to do
Speaker 3: with Moo and Limoriah and they don't have Before we
Speaker 3: get into this topic specifically, I haven't heard any connection
Speaker 3: with ayahuascar Yeahe and Limoria or MoU. But I think
Speaker 3: the consciousness that these energetic realities, that the that the
Speaker 3: Yahey opens up was they were you know, the Limurians
Speaker 3: were for sure tapped into that same and I don't
Speaker 3: think they even needed it because they were so pure.
Speaker 3: I think their holy plant was the loaded Well there's
Speaker 3: information about that, yeah, and so anyway, so the article
Speaker 3: that I wrote, which is fascinating and it goes the
Speaker 3: Taoist masters in their meditations, we're seeing the Burunka cosmology
Speaker 3: because after they came out of these sacred sites we'd meditated,
Speaker 3: they shared these encounters with this goddess that told them
Speaker 3: all the stuff, and the memo was like that's that's
Speaker 3: our stories, and like you're seeing our stories. So I
Speaker 3: wrote about that in this article. When you went off
Speaker 3: to the Kanyu Island, the Kanyu Island is a very
Speaker 3: special place. It's an island that's off the coast right
Speaker 3: in front of our lodge, and there's still a few
Speaker 3: spheres there. It was an indigenous burial site of pre
Speaker 3: Columbian times and it's considered to be a magnetic vortex
Speaker 3: compasses go around in circle. Is one of the spots
Speaker 3: that's most hit by lightning, and then the other location
Speaker 3: in Central America.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take an extra commercial right to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves and will return shortly with my
Speaker 1: guests today, Jonathan Miller Weisberger discussing his book Rainforest Medicine,
Speaker 1: will be right back. My guest today is Jonathan Miller Weisberger,
Speaker 1: and we're discussing sacred plants, plant medicines of the northern
Speaker 1: region of the Amazon and just how special this part
Speaker 1: of the world is. Thank you. So on this island,
Speaker 1: Kanye Island. The uh, the gravity, the magnetic feels very high,
Speaker 1: is what.
Speaker 3: You're suggesting, correct?
Speaker 1: Okay? Is there any ruins of buildings there from an
Speaker 1: earlier civilization or just these stone spheres in great quantity.
Speaker 3: There's not that many of the stone spheres, just a
Speaker 3: few and they're not they're not the mega big ones
Speaker 3: like found in Palmer Norte on the mainland just across
Speaker 3: from the island, but they're smaller. But there's many, many,
Speaker 3: many rock line pits, like hundreds, if not thousands, and
Speaker 3: still there's intact in digitous ceremonies anders like insane level
Speaker 3: archaeology was found there. That's at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Speaker 3: And the Gold Section of meso America, like triple gold eagles,
Speaker 3: like pound one pound of gold and like three gold
Speaker 3: eagles embracing each other. Jaguar head made a solid gold
Speaker 3: and jade Moeller's. They were very, very advanced, and these
Speaker 3: were navigators, these ancient pre Columbia Corso people's were jade
Speaker 3: Carver's and they were navigators and they visited. That's when
Speaker 3: you are Zapp talk talks about these spheares of and
Speaker 3: they used as navigational sight lines, you know for these
Speaker 3: natives who at the right time, they were so skilled
Speaker 3: that the patterns and they knew when they could just
Speaker 3: drift across as happy, you know, like ego tourists. You know,
Speaker 3: it's completely sustainably being blown over.
Speaker 1: That I was gonna ask you, uh, if.
Speaker 3: They pop into ceremonies and Giza. Uh huh.
Speaker 1: I mean, did you do you believe iv are Zapp's
Speaker 1: theory that they were navigational tools these stone spheres, because
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. They're they're solid cut stone, granted,
Speaker 1: and I mean maybe they float if you put them
Speaker 1: in certain water situations. I don't know.
Speaker 3: No, there they're granite, and I think it's probably close
Speaker 3: to impossible, from which I've read some studies say to
Speaker 3: replicate them even with modern lays. So back then there
Speaker 3: was no way they made anyone made him in the brunka.
Speaker 3: What they say about this fears is that there were
Speaker 3: very teardrops of compassion from the from the divine realms
Speaker 3: that God that when they fell to the earth at
Speaker 3: a time of apocalypse, the earth burned up, and there
Speaker 3: were like seeds of fire that fell from heaven and
Speaker 3: burned the whole earth. There was a time of apocalypse
Speaker 3: like before the Great flood, and then from the ashes,
Speaker 3: and there are more tear drops of the gods grew
Speaker 3: with the first cowtry that gave birth out of the
Speaker 3: pod of the CACW pod to the first woman who
Speaker 3: gave birth to the first man. But INDI just myths
Speaker 3: have to be interpreted, right, so I have some ideas
Speaker 3: of what that means, what that could be indicating basically
Speaker 3: what kind of interpret well, what can we do interpret
Speaker 3: from that, because you know, it seems pretty highly unlikely
Speaker 3: that a person would you know, be born out of
Speaker 3: a woman, you know, would be born out of a
Speaker 3: cow pod. I look at it as more that Cacao
Speaker 3: had a very profound impact on transforming culture, you know,
Speaker 3: and and these fears basically the alignment was like splattered
Speaker 3: by heaven like of course it have to be that way,
Speaker 3: like you know, it's like God, you know, throwing down
Speaker 3: some speckles onto the planet and the align and so
Speaker 3: they will served for so many multiple purposes. One as
Speaker 3: you were as that pretty much prob and Ericsson, you know,
Speaker 3: they they lay out all the arguments of how they
Speaker 3: were used to go to all the Verst sacred sites,
Speaker 3: and I can just imagine these old times, you know,
Speaker 3: these boss arrassed very deep keels going to popping into
Speaker 3: ceremonial life, you know, just going wow, look like like
Speaker 3: we go to festivals today and just bugging out and
Speaker 3: then just you know, vanishing back across the ocean to
Speaker 3: their stomping grounds. But what if these fears were used
Speaker 3: for navigation, which is transportation, you know, from one place
Speaker 3: to the next. And maybe it's it's here's another idea.
Speaker 3: This is even less blow our minds a bit more ready.
Speaker 3: So the Taoist masters when they were there, Master Tiang Ying,
Speaker 3: who has the Berlin Institute of Chiang Chiang, he is
Speaker 3: called it. It's a Chigung institute. I think it's called
Speaker 3: She's a Chigung teacher in Berlin, Master Chiang Yin and
Speaker 3: her grandmaster Leed Tyeung. They Tiangong is the name of
Speaker 3: their group, and they they're very in in connected with
Speaker 3: the Limorian realities. And they saw that this CD, this
Speaker 3: ninth dimensional goddess explained to them that a thousand years
Speaker 3: ago that the people along those coasts, these navigator cultures
Speaker 3: that were jade karbers, they could they spent a whole
Speaker 3: year carving with their like no tools at all other
Speaker 3: than jay dust and a bosaw or a jade carving
Speaker 3: to hang on her neck. That thousands of years later
Speaker 3: is like the first day was made listening immaculate. And
Speaker 3: so these people were so pure that she won basically
Speaker 3: appeared to them and said that I'm going to transform
Speaker 3: you into the fourth dimension of the water realm, because
Speaker 3: there's going to come a time when if you don't
Speaker 3: do it now, you won't be able to do it later.
Speaker 3: So she transformed all these people into the fourth dimension
Speaker 3: of the water reality. And so the memo was shocked
Speaker 3: because he said, there's an indigenous legend that a thousand
Speaker 3: years ago all the natives along that land committed collective suicide.
Speaker 3: Because he's part of the Brunka. He's Brunka. They migrated
Speaker 3: from Columbia up into Costainica. They found the series where
Speaker 3: they were, and but there was the land was uninhabited.
Speaker 3: There was rumors of these people that once live there,
Speaker 3: but they all and so and so he we discussed
Speaker 3: this like and he even thought about like she thought,
Speaker 3: and the memo was is a very intellectual and most
Speaker 3: of the Native elders that are versed in the oral
Speaker 3: tradition are highly intellectual analytical because these their mythologies and
Speaker 3: legends have are so long, and they have so many
Speaker 3: aspects of them, and there's so much meaning to it all.
Speaker 3: That's their science. They're indigenous science. And he said five
Speaker 3: hundred years ago, would makes sense that you know, you
Speaker 3: hear about the first arrival of the conquistad Ortis and
Speaker 3: killing everyone in their weight. They're like they were so
Speaker 3: pure and they they were not afraid of death, and
Speaker 3: so you could think how they'd take the leap. A
Speaker 3: whole culture would commit collective suicide rather than like Saul
Speaker 3: in the Bible, who like fucked ell On is his spear,
Speaker 3: you know, instead of getting caught, they'd collect commit undertake
Speaker 3: such a crazy act. But a thousand years ago, when
Speaker 3: this is like the Christine Paradise five hundred years ago,
Speaker 3: before this quote unquote discovery of the Americas, and so
Speaker 3: it made us perfect sense that like and you know,
Speaker 3: don't know, was like that, I like, that's it, that's it.
Speaker 3: He was like a moment of enlightening. The CD, this
Speaker 3: ninth dimensional goddess. She transformed the cultures into the water
Speaker 3: reality where they still exist today as divide immortals in
Speaker 3: the alternate dimension inside the water and get this the masters,
Speaker 3: the Daoist master said that CD did this accomplish this
Speaker 3: through the use of the spheres, the granite spheres, so
Speaker 3: like the spheres had uses that regular people or not regular,
Speaker 3: but like advanced navigators with you know, very skilled knowledge
Speaker 3: of the earth climatic patterns could use to you know,
Speaker 3: travel across the ocean. And then CDA goddess she was
Speaker 3: able to use these fears to like save a whole
Speaker 3: culture into an alternate dimension inside the water?
Speaker 1: Did she did those did the thinking that the suicide
Speaker 1: was so that they could pass into the different dimension.
Speaker 3: Well, that was probably just a way of you know,
Speaker 3: like saying that you know, they disappeared because there's indigenous
Speaker 3: legend that they all just killed the committed collective suicide
Speaker 3: thousand years ago before the Brunkahs arrived as a way
Speaker 3: of explaining whether it was underhabited. They just found remnants
Speaker 3: of these people in large amounts pottery, all kinds of pottery,
Speaker 3: stone work, but that they were gone. So but so
Speaker 3: the dow Masters they basically you know, received this informasion
Speaker 3: from this ninth dimensional goddess that it wasn't that they
Speaker 3: collective committed suicide, they were transformed into an alternate dimension
Speaker 3: and then dow Masters that they went in there in
Speaker 3: the in the article I speak about that that they
Speaker 3: that was masters to their cultivation. They achieved as well
Speaker 3: as Shawnman masters extra your ability to be able to
Speaker 3: send part of their soul into immortal realms and see
Speaker 3: what it's like in there. That's not a few regular
Speaker 3: mortals can do. Masters can.
Speaker 1: Damn. It's funny because you were you were talking about
Speaker 1: the Taois masters, Dawis masters, whatever. And I wondered if
Speaker 1: anybody had considered the stone spheres as some form of
Speaker 1: technology or some form of perhaps they have an energy
Speaker 1: field or a gravitational fiel that has that these ancient
Speaker 1: ones thought were technology of some kind.
Speaker 3: Well, I saw this article that I've searched high and
Speaker 3: low for and had not been able to find again
Speaker 3: years ago. I saw that it was a someone from
Speaker 3: England who photographed the spheres with infrared photography and published
Speaker 3: the photos. And there was art and there was messages.
Speaker 3: It was not just a granite ball coming out in
Speaker 3: the photo. You can see like faces of ancient shamans
Speaker 3: and like see who it was, Like, yeah, it was
Speaker 3: next level. There was like a lock of like archaic
Speaker 3: arcastic records, you know, kind of information, right, was coming off.
Speaker 1: And what were they doing? They were shining lights into
Speaker 1: the stone spheres and this was coming off or they
Speaker 1: just used some kind of a technology like an aura
Speaker 1: camera or something.
Speaker 3: That's what I didn't take the article seriously enough. And
Speaker 3: when I went to when when I want to go
Speaker 3: back now, I don't even know if it was a thing,
Speaker 3: you know, like a pigment of my imagination. I could
Speaker 3: never find this, but it was they were doing, settling
Speaker 3: up cameras and doing something like you're mentioning, is if
Speaker 3: I recall infra red or or imagery of like, you know,
Speaker 3: resident imageries of these spheres from like I think it
Speaker 3: was infrared photographs he was, and then he played with
Speaker 3: the photos a bit, you know, to like kind of
Speaker 3: make the bring out contrasts and and so. But yeah,
Speaker 3: there was much more than this fears coming off of them.
Speaker 1: Do the Sequoia people relate to the spheres? Is there
Speaker 1: a cosmology that we are not paying attention to that
Speaker 1: they talk about that is related to the spheres at all?
Speaker 3: Well, just before we get to that, the doomsters they
Speaker 3: said something else too. They said that the same goddess
Speaker 3: who could be prayed to, They said, her name is Cid.
Speaker 3: She protects the Osa Peninsula. She's the ninth dimensional goddess,
Speaker 3: divine immortal. She transformed. When Limoria was sinking, the sinking
Speaker 3: continent of MoU, she translocated a group of giants that
Speaker 3: were very noble and took pledges to you know, live
Speaker 3: noble lives and celestial pledges they made, so they lived
Speaker 3: on the Kanye Island for a long time. After this
Speaker 3: seeking of Limoria.
Speaker 1: There's a giant a giant race or the actual race.
Speaker 1: Some people think that the Melmorians were actually giants.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's church Ward studies of Limoria, which is pretty
Speaker 3: far out the criminal church Ward. Yeah, she transformed them
Speaker 3: and then she knew that since they were so noble,
Speaker 3: that they'd be like massacred, you know, once they were discovered.
Speaker 3: So she transformed them into a fourth dimension. And there's
Speaker 3: so there's water temples near Kanyo Island where these giants
Speaker 3: still live, but an alternate dimension. So these the spheres
Speaker 3: again are mentioned as tools for transimensional or transportation or
Speaker 3: transoceanic transportation. Who knows what else on Earth could come
Speaker 3: of these if their studies born over time. But the
Speaker 3: Sequoia they don't know about the spheres. There there is
Speaker 3: an indigenous legend and the Amazon with Amasanga Supai, which
Speaker 3: is the spirit of nature where nature and gold deposits
Speaker 3: are found, and these are seen in Costainika. And there's
Speaker 3: the orbs. So orbs just mentioned of orbs being seen,
Speaker 3: I can talk. I can check quite a bit about
Speaker 3: that because in our area in Cosaka, we have seen orbs.
Speaker 3: But when the Sequoias were at the lodge and they
Speaker 3: drank the medicine, they corroborated that these divine and mortals
Speaker 3: were there because this was before the Doois came and
Speaker 3: the Sequoyas, who are you know, bless your hearts, they're
Speaker 3: on the other side. Now, these elders they had they
Speaker 3: can see visions that regular people we can't see because
Speaker 3: they're advanced masters from the whole life of drinking yea
Speaker 3: and living in the wildernes. So they called them the
Speaker 3: nyan ye sie. Yeah, hoopo pai so Nyanya is the
Speaker 3: creator ci Ya Hoopo is this high. Cia is the
Speaker 3: salty high on c Cia is the salty ocean, the
Speaker 3: salty lake, and the Hoopo is from the center. So
Speaker 3: anything that has the word hoopo, it comes from the
Speaker 3: center of creation. So there's the divine immortals that come
Speaker 3: from the center of the creation of the Great Salty Lake,
Speaker 3: and they had visions to them and they said that
Speaker 3: the coast all all off the beach where our Eco
Speaker 3: lodges is these fourth dimensional water temples in there, and
Speaker 3: they were encountering them. And then when the Dowers came,
Speaker 3: they went in there and their visions and they have
Speaker 3: these energy swings. They don't need to eat any food.
Speaker 3: They look like they're about forty years old, but they're
Speaker 3: a thousand years old. The Organs don't perish, and so
Speaker 3: the Sequoias were really happy because in the Amazon they
Speaker 3: have to deal with a lot of heavy stuff, and
Speaker 3: so drinking the medicine in their territory oftentimes their sorcery.
Speaker 3: They have to set up ar khanas, which takes a
Speaker 3: lot of effort to set up, like protection seals around
Speaker 3: and so it's a whole Here on Theiosa, they felt
Speaker 3: like it was like an open reality and they were
Speaker 3: able to Like one of the Sequoi elders came and
Speaker 3: when he drank and he said he saw the entire
Speaker 3: spiritual cosmology. He saw this boat come across the water
Speaker 3: and mermaids came out, and all the divine beings came down.
Speaker 3: It was just he had the most one of the
Speaker 3: most glorious visions that he's never seen in his own country.
Speaker 3: They were amazed by the fears. I brought the Sekoy
Speaker 3: elders to see the sphears and and they they remembered
Speaker 3: the legend of Pina. So the creator who I mentioned
Speaker 3: earlier in yan Ya Pina who brought and dismissed the
Speaker 3: Knypie when he merged the two bundles and made the
Speaker 3: same amount of time for day and night, he was born.
Speaker 3: And there's a Taoist legend too, they called pang Kaw
Speaker 3: that was born from a stone drum. The Sequoya also
Speaker 3: say Pina was born from a stone drum. So that
Speaker 3: immediately was the first thing that came to mind in
Speaker 3: the Sequoya saw these fears Pina, that the drum were
Speaker 3: out came the creator from.
Speaker 1: That amazing Uh. Did the Dallas masters actually do a
Speaker 1: plant medicine ceremony with you? Did you prepare the Brew
Speaker 1: or did somebody else prepare the Brew?
Speaker 3: They didn't prepare. We didn't. They didn't. We didn't even
Speaker 3: talk about that. They were on a whole different mission.
Speaker 3: They don't even need the brew. Freaking master cheg In.
Speaker 3: They was there for ten days and didn't eat anything
Speaker 3: the whole time she was there. I mean, these are masters,
Speaker 3: they're not regular people, and like they.
Speaker 1: Just got regular Probbably.
Speaker 3: You're happy like that, you're having you know, like I'm
Speaker 3: Champagne and there she wasn't even eating. She did like
Speaker 3: the Guayusa tea a lot, though we grew Guayusa tea there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she said, it's one of the finest teas she's tried.
Speaker 3: Amazing the Guayusa, which is a yeh but mati relative.
Speaker 3: It's ilex Kuayusa and it's it's the longevity tree. It's
Speaker 3: the oldest living tree in the Amazon. It's a oscoll.
Speaker 3: It's the tea that's used for cultural transmission, to drink
Speaker 3: in the morning and it inspires conversation. So we we
Speaker 3: did drink the Guayusa with them quite a bit. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so the lodge is amazing in them. But we have
Speaker 3: our our plant, we have we have our ceremonies there
Speaker 3: the Rainforest Medicine Council gatherings that we hold once twice
Speaker 3: a year. The next one is at the lodge in
Speaker 3: January and twenty twenty six and then in Ecuador in
Speaker 3: this November to Galta's Wilderness. Yeah, to a really nice camp.
Speaker 3: About the pet about the orbs? Have you heard about that?
Speaker 3: What's your take on those orbs?
Speaker 1: Or the orbs are in different parts of the world.
Speaker 1: We see them in ancient England. Uh, They're actually have
Speaker 1: been found at different sites here in the United States.
Speaker 1: American Stonehenge apparently has them there. Places where there's ancient
Speaker 1: dwellings is one place. But you know, they're also found
Speaker 1: in daily life, you know. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's because you have if you have to have people
Speaker 1: that are conscious for them to appear, But what's your
Speaker 1: feeling on them? Are they Are they in abundance where
Speaker 1: you live?
Speaker 3: Well? You know, I first heard about these equarters from
Speaker 3: the Qischwa. They call them amasanga amazangas, and these amasangas
Speaker 3: are the spirit of nature where nature's pristine and we're
Speaker 3: deep in the earth and the river's there's gold deposits,
Speaker 3: and these fears appear like orbs of light, and the
Speaker 3: shamans could have them like merge into their bodies and
Speaker 3: gain energy and wisdom to heal. And but in Costadica
Speaker 3: they're quite common and I heard about him and I
Speaker 3: finally I heard about him first from the memo or
Speaker 3: bunka elder, and he's heard some amazing stories.
Speaker 1: What do they have to say about it? What do
Speaker 1: the indigenous people say?
Speaker 3: Well, don't mean to live along the banks of Costadika's
Speaker 3: largest river, called the Telaba River. And sometimes he gets
Speaker 3: it in him in the middle of the night to
Speaker 3: go on a bicycle ride down the highway. So he
Speaker 3: was telling me he went out of the bike ride
Speaker 3: down the highway and this orb came up the river
Speaker 3: and it came out over and it came out like
Speaker 3: about three hundred meters in front of him and was
Speaker 3: overy so obviously he stopped his bike and he was
Speaker 3: just standing on the middle of the road, just in
Speaker 3: the middle, like three in the morning, and then it
Speaker 3: dropped down. He's told me with explicit detail. It dropped
Speaker 3: straight down like it had weight, and when it hit
Speaker 3: the road, it sparked up and he sparks went up
Speaker 3: like four meters. In the sparks was a giant black
Speaker 3: person that ran right there into the rock. And it
Speaker 3: turned out that right when the orb dropped it was
Speaker 3: a large almost like a door shaped face like thirty
Speaker 3: you know, that went up quite like one hundred feet
Speaker 3: or thirty meters high a rock, and the being went
Speaker 3: just into the rock like if it was you know,
Speaker 3: a doorway. It just disappeared into the rock.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 3: Yep. And so one time I actually have to admit
Speaker 3: I did see one of these orbs. I was with
Speaker 3: two other people and thank goodness, was three of us.
Speaker 3: Could probably no, I would believe me if it was
Speaker 3: just myself, dig get alone. And we were right up
Speaker 3: by the cafeteria at their lodge and the full moon
Speaker 3: was shining beautifully, and I was we were happy with
Speaker 3: conversations and we started mining.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: We were like, wow, what a beautiful full moon. Yeah,
Speaker 3: look how beautiful the full moon is. And then I
Speaker 3: was like, it's not the full moon because I keep
Speaker 3: track of the moontime. It's like a crescent moon. And
Speaker 3: looked over there was the crested moon. But what there's
Speaker 3: the crystal moon. Would have looked back, he was gone.
Speaker 3: But for like ten minutes we were there basking in
Speaker 3: the beautiful orb light. It was just like a full moon.
Speaker 1: Amazing, three of us.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: So you don't see orbs on a regular basis when
Speaker 1: you're doing ceremony or you're with the Sequoia people or whatever.
Speaker 3: Now it's the orb is an advanced vision. To see
Speaker 3: the orbs, you have to have a lot of virtue
Speaker 3: or you have to do diets, dietas and the orbs
Speaker 3: like I say, these are amasanga soup i'es believe there's this.
Speaker 3: It's a spirit of nature. So it comes to you
Speaker 3: and comes to the people when they're ready. It has
Speaker 3: its purpose. It's like you know, like sometimes you if
Speaker 3: you go out into the ocean and I'm floating out
Speaker 3: in front of our lodge, it's amazing. You can hear
Speaker 3: the whales singing. It's like an amphithea or the whales.
Speaker 3: They be hundreds of one hundred miles. The way you
Speaker 3: can hear them singing, the way their sound travels through
Speaker 3: the water is just incredible.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: With a little with a snorkeling mask, you can see
Speaker 3: like amazing little creatures floating by there like sacred geometry,
Speaker 3: very intricate little sea creatures floating by What purpose does
Speaker 3: that sea creature have? You know, like a little microsopics,
Speaker 3: Just super beautiful little sea creature, like translucent like jellyfish
Speaker 3: type thing. Right. Wow, the orb is the same it
Speaker 3: just happens to be something bigger that floats around once
Speaker 3: in a while, like there's like Earth when it's in
Speaker 3: the prestige. That's what's so wonderful. The Daoist master said,
Speaker 3: the Osa Peninsula has to be protect it. It's like
Speaker 3: a celestial island.
Speaker 1: It has to do with energy though, because I know
Speaker 1: when I'm in Maya Land, which is Mexico, and looking
Speaker 1: at an ancient archaeological park, there's certain pyramids that attract orbs.
Speaker 1: In fact, they've been photographed and it's an energetic thing.
Speaker 1: There's energy. A lot of these pyramids were built over
Speaker 1: uh Tolleric energy fields, and I think that the the
Speaker 1: the orbs are are attracted or perhaps they're even generated
Speaker 1: by the said dimensional portal or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, the that makes that brings it into what
Speaker 3: the phenomena of the Ayahuasca world, thea tekuna or believe orbs,
Speaker 3: or that out of the orbs comes seekret geometry. They
Speaker 3: can be there. There's there's no Don Pablo on Marico,
Speaker 3: our great friend and spiritual mentor, Don Pablito, who had
Speaker 3: a good portrait of befriendly his cover. His artwork graces
Speaker 3: the cover of my book, Reinforce Medicine. He encouraged so
Speaker 3: much that book to be written because when we were friends,
Speaker 3: he came to the lodge three times.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that paintings looking like Ayahuasca journeys beautiful.
Speaker 3: Of course, and he has there's a book that you know,
Speaker 3: if if people haven't seen that, the iconography of the
Speaker 3: proving shaman divisions of Ayahuasca visions by Don Pablo Almardigo
Speaker 3: are incredible insights into the visionary realities that these elder
Speaker 3: shamans perceive and can witness and be testimony of. But
Speaker 3: in some cases he shows orbs coming in other it's
Speaker 3: like trend it's like sacred geometry. But these tiagunas are
Speaker 3: like portals, so they're the way the divine supertle, you know,
Speaker 3: higher dimensional energies enter into this three D reality where
Speaker 3: we are temporarily. They come through the orbs or through
Speaker 3: the tuna, the portals passageways.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and will return shortly with my
Speaker 1: guests today, Jonathan Miller Weisberger discussing his book Rainforest Medicine,
Speaker 1: will be right back. My guest today is ethnobotanist Jonathan
Speaker 1: Miller Weisberger. He's coming to us today from Costa Rica
Speaker 1: and he has spent a good portion of his life
Speaker 1: studying the indigenous people of the Amazon as well as
Speaker 1: the sacred plant medicines that are cultivated there. Amazing. Hey,
Speaker 1: I want to get into Cacau here regarding an article
Speaker 1: you wrote, but before I jump into that, on these giants,
Speaker 1: these Limorian giants, you're saying that they were transformed into
Speaker 1: a different dimension and they're still on the island. But
Speaker 1: what do we know about the giants? Is there anything?
Speaker 1: Is there any local mythology or lore regarding their existence?
Speaker 3: You know, amongst there is legends, not that many amongst
Speaker 3: the natives of South America that I've lived amongst the Sequolitas,
Speaker 3: and they talk more about small spirits like Mannahuoni South
Speaker 3: Hawaiian Manahni's a little pig, small spirits. But there's been,
Speaker 3: you know, I of course, quite extensive research that can
Speaker 3: be found about giants and hobby South America, and I
Speaker 3: think there was different racism giants from what I understand,
Speaker 3: nobal one that were very noble in others that were
Speaker 3: not as noble. So it's it's a field of study
Speaker 3: that I haven't had the opportunity yet to go down
Speaker 3: that far.
Speaker 1: So yeah, cool, great, all right.
Speaker 3: But the artist amazing is that the giants of the CD.
Speaker 3: Since she's a divine motal, she saved the giants from Lamoria.
Speaker 3: They were very noble race. They had taken They shared
Speaker 3: with us that they had taken oaths, celestial oaths to
Speaker 3: help basically, you know, maintain things as they are and
Speaker 3: keep the peace, so to say, you know, they have powers.
Speaker 3: So they they had. CD saved these giants that were
Speaker 3: living after Lemoria sank on the Kanye Island by transforming
Speaker 3: them into a protected as she did with the coastal
Speaker 3: people's fourth dimensional water temples, like inside the water, scuba
Speaker 3: divers can't see them because there was you know, scuba
Speaker 3: divers is going to go down there and see you know,
Speaker 3: white tip ree sharks and you know, like parrotfish. But
Speaker 3: on the fourth dimentioned they're inside the water, these giants.
Speaker 3: So it's interesting that that cave into being as you know,
Speaker 3: related with the spears.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great story. I haven't heard that before.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, talk about the article cacao, the World tree
Speaker 1: and her planetary mission. This is an article you wrote
Speaker 1: and I had to say this. I've been fascinated with
Speaker 1: cancao for decades because it's thought that it was one
Speaker 1: of the gifts from Quetzaquattle, the Mayan god. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was a gift from him, and it's a superfood in
Speaker 1: many ways. But talk about the energy behind this article.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a super food in all regards to
Speaker 3: the term. Raw cocu powder is the highest ranking on
Speaker 3: the ORG scale of anti antioccidents as the most antioxidants
Speaker 3: of any known food supplement, which is of itself amazing
Speaker 3: knowing the effects and anti oxidens out on the body.
Speaker 3: So that's that makes some of course, if it's the
Speaker 3: food of the gods, and you know is some and uh,
Speaker 3: like you mentioned, you know the legend of questal Quatto
Speaker 3: bringing questal Cuado was the god of culture who transformed
Speaker 3: culture and about the early people so many skills, literally
Speaker 3: taught them civilization right and brought cacao. But uh, according
Speaker 3: to the genetics by the name of Omar Cornell, he
Speaker 3: studied the old cacao varieties. He says that their co
Speaker 3: cow strains come from the Amazon originally and the oldest
Speaker 3: known are archeological remnants of cacau use utensils come from
Speaker 3: Ecuador on on the eastern slopes of the Andes, and
Speaker 3: the mon archaeological cycle left Florida and a culture known
Speaker 3: as the Mayo chin Chipe and five five hundred year
Speaker 3: old beautiful red jasper arakati which is the small two
Speaker 3: con bowls and then clay bowls too. All the clay
Speaker 3: vessels that we used for pouring cacao are holding you know,
Speaker 3: jug with two spouts merging into one spout. So it's
Speaker 3: again like the using cacao is the phenomenon to bring
Speaker 3: two sides together spirit matter, you know, oppose your opposite,
Speaker 3: the merging of opposites. So cacao, like all cigaret places
Speaker 3: kind of we could say, used to help us approach
Speaker 3: a non dual the non dual reality. And that's always
Speaker 3: that the has been the stry for, you know, for
Speaker 3: you know, first nation peoples is to stay close always
Speaker 3: to the non dual reality while we're living in the
Speaker 3: you know, dual reality, and to hold the truth of
Speaker 3: non duality in the realms bounded by duality, you know,
Speaker 3: the indigenous culture and traditions. You can say all our
Speaker 3: you know, technologies to help us sustain that one act
Speaker 3: there our entire life. They can view it as like,
Speaker 3: for example, like when you're born, it's like diving into
Speaker 3: a river and you're swimming underwater, holding your breath until
Speaker 3: you pop out to the other side. Is when in
Speaker 3: this world we die boom. They were back in the
Speaker 3: spirit room. And like they say, like the physical awakened
Speaker 3: reality is like a shadow of the spirit world. Master
Speaker 3: and he says the proportion of the physical realms to
Speaker 3: the spiritual realms could be looked at as less than
Speaker 3: one to four quadrillion. So we live on this planet
Speaker 3: for purpose to you know, to like you know, maybe
Speaker 3: work something out so that we can learn experience the
Speaker 3: wake in reality before you go back to a higher reality.
Speaker 3: So these cacao bowls that have two spots going into one,
Speaker 3: which I find fascinating, I interpret that as definitely cacao
Speaker 3: because all of them are like that was used for.
Speaker 1: So describe describe the ball because I've always wondered if
Speaker 1: it's if they're venting getting air into the mixture somehow
Speaker 1: because of those tubular shapes, or maybe that's just something
Speaker 1: to hold on to. I don't know, it.
Speaker 3: Could be something to hold on to because it's practical,
Speaker 3: like you know, because there's two years a bowl and
Speaker 3: then two two determintive spots, so that it does offer
Speaker 3: a handle and the kid oxygen as well. Usually the
Speaker 3: cacao is highly frothed the Aztecs in the code Ses,
Speaker 3: there's instructions they froth. They like the cacaw well frothed
Speaker 3: with a outer of quandity, bad flowers, certain flowers they
Speaker 3: dry of cacao relatives that have been unique aromas and
Speaker 3: powder that and there's many recipes. But what's amazing is
Speaker 3: that the cacaw is brought to Mexico most likely by
Speaker 3: intercultural exchange, because there was you know, I haven't intercultural
Speaker 3: exchange in pre Columbian times. That's shown because you know,
Speaker 3: like for example, pasta rica you find oh mec jade,
Speaker 3: and many foods were brought up, such as cacao. And
Speaker 3: so what amazes me is how profound and the impact
Speaker 3: the cow has been on Central American cultures, Like it's
Speaker 3: even in the Popol Vu and the you know, the
Speaker 3: creation of the hero twins when they find the outsmart
Speaker 3: every possible trap of the gods of death. Everyone day
Speaker 3: out smart, but they know that they count outsmart the
Speaker 3: last one. So they saw sacrifice themselves, throw themselves into
Speaker 3: the fire, and then are the gods and death are furious.
Speaker 3: They also defang the gods of death seriously that hold
Speaker 3: bout and made them less harmful. They're thrown into the river.
Speaker 3: They swim off as fish. That's why the Mayan asked
Speaker 3: the Omec and then is and then Maya. The Maya
Speaker 3: stand out at the old Mac and their language and
Speaker 3: culture of the word cacao comes from Omek. First the
Speaker 3: glyph is of of like a man looking up or
Speaker 3: like the hero at the hero twins with fishkills and
Speaker 3: cacao means two fish, and it's like so they say
Speaker 3: that cow gives the energy like fish to swim through
Speaker 3: the rapids of life, the rapids of the water. But
Speaker 3: and then out comes the cacao tree is born from this,
Speaker 3: but it's originally underneath and like the the underworlds like
Speaker 3: a garden that nobody can look at. It's like a
Speaker 3: cow tree that spat on the the daughter of the
Speaker 3: god of Death's hand when she disobeyed his advice that
Speaker 3: don't go anyone to my garden. Of course, the daughter
Speaker 3: of the god of death goes and sees it. Her
Speaker 3: hand gets spot on because the first her parents, the
Speaker 3: first hero two were sacrifice immediately because they were too noble,
Speaker 3: they were too simple. They didn't And then so their
Speaker 3: heads are hung on this tree, which is like a
Speaker 3: cow tree. It'd split the blue light onto her head.
Speaker 3: And there's a whole song in the popol vu with
Speaker 3: the copal, you know, that blinds the guy so she
Speaker 3: can escape. And then those are born, and then they
Speaker 3: become ballplayers that make so much noise, and again this
Speaker 3: time they're more savvy. But so Cacao is such a
Speaker 3: mystic tree. And then you know and and like you know,
Speaker 3: as mentioning the Brunca legend of Cacao being born from
Speaker 3: the tudor ups of God to be, you know, the
Speaker 3: outcoming of fish humanity. That to me, that says it
Speaker 3: totally transformed culture. There's may I pottery showing Chuck, the
Speaker 3: god of agriculture, exchanging Cacao, and the thunder God exchanging
Speaker 3: Cacau with east Shell, the godess of fertility and medicine. Right,
Speaker 3: so you know it could be the cacao or the
Speaker 3: phenomena of cacau. Like what cacao does to you know,
Speaker 3: how delates us is the phenomena that pertains the spiritual
Speaker 3: realms because alkaloids, you know, can be found on many
Speaker 3: other plants, but co cow's unique mixture, you know, theo
Speaker 3: bruma and what that does in the bodies like opening.
Speaker 3: That's why like modern day like they say cacao ceremony,
Speaker 3: what theobromine is like affects the center like the hard chakra.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a very powerful, uh, stimulant and healer.
Speaker 1: But what is there a variety that they use of
Speaker 1: cacao that they turn into cocoa or chocolate or is
Speaker 1: it just that they cook the seeds and that's what
Speaker 1: we get today for present day cocoa.
Speaker 3: There's a there's a team bank of a cacao Gebak
Speaker 3: in Trinidad and Tobago that has over two thousands varieties
Speaker 3: of cacao. It's amazing how many varieties there are. Wow.
Speaker 3: The ones that go into like the mainstream you know,
Speaker 3: consumer flow of chocolate or cacao beads are usually hybridized.
Speaker 3: They require a lot of pesticide. It's it's the cacao,
Speaker 3: like all sacred plants that make yourself, you know, bring
Speaker 3: get brought out into the world, has a lot of
Speaker 3: It's like the sword, the double edged sword on the
Speaker 3: one handed. You know, it does both good and also harm.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like because of the mass growth,
Speaker 1: commercial farming, and they got to grow it quicker, so
Speaker 1: they're going to add harm. Not hormones, but enhancers and
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 3: Well, also because it grows in the wettest parts of
Speaker 3: the planet, which is also the most diverse part. So
Speaker 3: the tropical wet forest on the eastern slopes and western
Speaker 3: slopes of the Indies, it's the most diverse part of
Speaker 3: the region. Has been greatly deforced for chocolate tree plantations,
Speaker 3: you know, turning like a forest that has three hundred
Speaker 3: species of trees pro hector into one tree, and consequently
Speaker 3: there's cocw blights. So there's a lot of So it's
Speaker 3: hard to find organic basically cacao because a lot of
Speaker 3: it is if you beginning, I think cow is brought
Speaker 3: to Africa. There's a lot of deforestations, there's childhood slavery.
Speaker 1: I kind of believe that when I read that in
Speaker 1: your article and there's a huge cocw uh plantations in Africa.
Speaker 3: There's been class actual lawsuits against the big companies to
Speaker 3: prove that another cocow comes, but it's kind of silence.
Speaker 3: It's hard to track. But ultimately, you know, coco is
Speaker 3: a super food and her message. I call it the
Speaker 3: world tree because it's one tree that gotten around the
Speaker 3: entire globe. Who doesn't know chocolate, right, So, and it's
Speaker 3: also it's kind of symbolic of the world tree that
Speaker 3: could be maybe seen as the tree of life in Genesis.
Speaker 3: You know, Adam and eve Ache from the Tree of
Speaker 3: Knowledge that were given were booted out of the garden
Speaker 3: of Eden, but the Tree of Life was protected by
Speaker 3: divine hours. I think we're the cultural beams were to
Speaker 3: protect this tree, so that the knowledge of the Tree
Speaker 3: of life. But what does that mean? So if the
Speaker 3: sages that are able to perceive the wisdom, the knowledge
Speaker 3: of the Tree of life have aligned themselves with celestial
Speaker 3: virtues so that the divine the guardians, the celestial gardens
Speaker 3: that are protecting the Tree of life allowed them to
Speaker 3: receive this wisdom. And so I think cacao is one
Speaker 3: of those trees because if people see her as the
Speaker 3: representative of the precious element water. Without water, we'd all
Speaker 3: be dead. It's the most precious element, way more valuable
Speaker 3: than gold or any or anything else that's considered highly
Speaker 3: valuable in this time. And so Cacao she comes from
Speaker 3: the most the wettest part of the planet. So consequently
Speaker 3: she's a representative, the ambassador for water. We're just not
Speaker 3: seeing her that way yet. And for diversity, there's I
Speaker 3: study permaculture. There's a there's like an interconnecting cycle in
Speaker 3: permaculture that speaks of diversity, engenders fertility and fertility and
Speaker 3: genders stability and stability in gender's diversity. It's like a triangle,
Speaker 3: like a circle that's like in perpetual unison. So basically,
Speaker 3: without diversity, we can't have fertility nor stability, diversity and
Speaker 3: genders stability stability, and gender's fertility and fertility and gender's diversity.
Speaker 3: So it's so Picao is the representative of the most
Speaker 3: of the peak pinnacle of planetary botanical diversity. So I
Speaker 3: think if we can see her as that and aligned
Speaker 3: with heavily virtues, Cacao can become part of helping improve
Speaker 3: the quality of life of people, both where she it's
Speaker 3: grown and all the world over, both in health her health.
Speaker 3: The cacao is not just a superfood, is also a
Speaker 3: health tonic. People who consume rock cocau daily will be
Speaker 3: much healthier and it can heal a lot of ailments
Speaker 3: if it's taken like you know, like rock cow in
Speaker 3: the morning, like a remedy every day. The Natives have
Speaker 3: three types of cacao. According to Bruca, there's a bitter
Speaker 3: cacaw that's used as medicine for healing all ailments. The
Speaker 3: sickle to drink bitter cacao every morning on an empty
Speaker 3: stomach and they'll heal whatever they got going on, and
Speaker 3: it could be from high level antioxidants and the other
Speaker 3: amazing things that hasn't it's as well, there was this sweet,
Speaker 3: a neutral cacao that wasn't too sweet nor too bitter
Speaker 3: for daily use as food. And then the sweet cocow
Speaker 3: was for ceremonies, for weddings and for festivals.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, I didn't realize that the raw cacao as
Speaker 1: well as the prepared cocou was considered a super food.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the antioxidants, uh, but there's also properties that appear,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask you a little bit about
Speaker 1: the spiritual side of it. If it's used in a
Speaker 1: ceremonial fashion, uh, to enhance meditation or enhance spiritual journeying,
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily psychoactive.
Speaker 3: That's one of the most douible plants for our cocau.
Speaker 3: I mean, it does have some caffeine and theobromine, but
Speaker 3: most people probably you know, can handle that. It's not
Speaker 3: It's a lot of people that you know would never
Speaker 3: dare drink ayahuasca could benefit greatly from cacao and it's not.
Speaker 3: And then theogin so it's just more like a but
Speaker 3: the cow is I believe active based like the finest
Speaker 3: gland in the heart chok or. So it helps people
Speaker 3: to open their hearts more. With continual use, people are
Speaker 3: stuck holding on to grudges, so the cacciumony gives us
Speaker 3: that extra nudge. I think it's a modern day thing.
Speaker 3: It might have been, you know. Cacao has always been
Speaker 3: used ceramon instantation times as a form of community with
Speaker 3: divine energy with the gods, basically the name theobroma's food
Speaker 3: of the gods, but when used in the modern day setting.
Speaker 3: I've participated in ca causumeries that are very enriching and healing,
Speaker 3: where you know, people sit together and drink cocao and
Speaker 3: usually you know, talk about something that perturbs you, something
Speaker 3: that's holding you back in your heart, you know, so
Speaker 3: you talk about it, you get it off your chest.
Speaker 3: People cry together, they laugh together, people feel more relieved.
Speaker 3: So that can be very healing. So it's it's centered
Speaker 3: around like heartwarming. Opportunity to unpack rudge is maybe you know,
Speaker 3: like they're say in Hawaii, forgive and pardon, to forgiveness
Speaker 3: and pardoning ourselves and others, we can come to like,
Speaker 3: you know, peace on things.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, fantastic, Jonathan. We can speak for hours. Uh,
Speaker 1: wonderful world that you live in as an ethnobio Uh botanist.
Speaker 1: Uh what do you want to leave us with? Uh?
Speaker 1: What's what's some wisdom from your part of the world
Speaker 1: for us modern ah seekers.
Speaker 3: Well, cacao can be purchased at Kayati k A L
Speaker 3: L A R I. And he's like Kayati talk to
Speaker 3: company from Ecuador the past. In these past, President of
Speaker 3: the future, they're restoring the greatest farmland. It's an amazing
Speaker 3: source of wholesome, energetically high quality cacao. And but yeah,
Speaker 3: what I'd like to say is, you know, back to
Speaker 3: where you know the begin Thank you so much Cliff
Speaker 3: for having me on, for having this opportunity to share.
Speaker 3: We have, you know, quite a few projects going. Just
Speaker 3: maintained the lodge, like we got the ocean rows and
Speaker 3: we had a very strong RADI season last year to
Speaker 3: wash out our bridge. We were working on a thin budget,
Speaker 3: so we're raising funds to build a new bridge out
Speaker 3: to the lodge. We have a Perma Culture teaching center
Speaker 3: that's still a fledged league and we're trying to you
Speaker 3: eventually get out. We have half the materials ready to
Speaker 3: build attle volunteer teaching center. We support projects in Equador.
Speaker 3: So we can't receive donations through the Living Bridges Foundation
Speaker 3: for our work. I'd love to we have that, you know,
Speaker 3: it's basically that I don't know how we could share
Speaker 3: that with people, but.
Speaker 1: It's living what's the web address? Give us the web
Speaker 1: address and I'll also place it. I'll also place it
Speaker 1: on the show notes so people can go there.
Speaker 3: Okay, great, Yeah, So donations can be made tax deductible
Speaker 3: in the United States, through the Living Bridges Foundation, which
Speaker 3: is a five O one see through non profit organization,
Speaker 3: and the website to that is basically the Living Bridges Foundation.
Speaker 3: And let me just pull that up because kind of
Speaker 3: cart mef guard. I really appreciate you bringing that up.
Speaker 3: So that's some Living Bridges Foundation dot org. Perfect, And
Speaker 3: then my work is the main site. Our family business
Speaker 3: is the Oceanforest Ecolodge. That's Oceanforest dot org. And we
Speaker 3: have a blog there too, and we have a visitor
Speaker 3: center and that's in that's in Coasta Eca on the
Speaker 3: Osa Peninsula. It's surrounded by wildlife. It's a nature sanctuary.
Speaker 3: We have moved from to twenty three visiting guests. This
Speaker 3: January twenty twenty six, we have our classic all Time
Speaker 3: Rainforest Medicine Council gatherings. Those are posted on my book's
Speaker 3: website under the link that's his gatherings. It's Rainforest Medicine
Speaker 3: dot net and you can read about the book. There's
Speaker 3: videos about the treatises. Yeah hey, and you'll see the
Speaker 3: retreats are posted there. Both Ecuador, we go out to
Speaker 3: the Knapoca let Us Wilderness this November twenty first and
Speaker 3: twenty ninth. I would love for some of your listeners
Speaker 3: to join us and be wonderful. And also there are
Speaker 3: Rainforce Medicine Council gathering in Costaika which would be the
Speaker 3: seventeenth of January to the twenty ninth of January in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. Fantastic, Yes, So, Oceanforest dot org is
Speaker 3: the lodge, Rainforestmedicine dot net is the book and the retreats,
Speaker 3: the medicine retreats and then the Living Bridges Foundation dot
Speaker 3: org to donate to our work if you'd like to
Speaker 3: tax exempt status for your donation, yep.
Speaker 1: And you lead, you lead seminars a couple of times
Speaker 1: a year down there, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we do our what we call our Rainforce Medicine
Speaker 3: Council gatherings. Those are bi annual two times a year
Speaker 3: in Nequarter and then in Costa Eka and those are
Speaker 3: seven day wilderness immersions. Was really good yet to Filly Neils.
Speaker 3: We have a very good chef and we the opportunity
Speaker 3: for people to experience the plant medicine ceremonies an authentic
Speaker 3: fashion and so we we do wilderness trekking and because
Speaker 3: I think has a bit more plush, because we have
Speaker 3: the cabins and that wit where it's wildern is camping.
Speaker 3: So it's more for people who like to experience the
Speaker 3: elements really close up. Because you think, we have our
Speaker 3: beautiful cabins right on the beach, and we have a
Speaker 3: beautiful ceremony lodge up on the hill of beautiful facility.
Speaker 3: That's just really really wonderful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic, Jonathan, A pleasure, really great to meet you
Speaker 1: and get to know about the details of the book
Speaker 1: and your work and continued success in what you're doing.
Speaker 1: I think you're doing a great job and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate speaking with you.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much. It's been a great shot
Speaker 3: to meet you that I really appreciate this opportunity to share.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Check the Facebook page for some images from Jonathan, not
Speaker 1: only the rainforest photographs, but some of the beautiful types
Speaker 1: of fruit that are derivatives from cacao, from Ayahuasca. The
Speaker 1: plants that they use are just many of them are
Speaker 1: gorgeous plants and you don't see them because they're deep
Speaker 1: in the rainforest and they don't last very long without
Speaker 1: you know, staying in the ground. So interesting the interview.
Speaker 1: Fun to have him on the program, and a lot
Speaker 1: that I didn't expect in that interview that was made
Speaker 1: it memorable. It was fun to have him on the program. Hey,
Speaker 1: I want to mention I am really excited about our
Speaker 1: new Megalithic Egypt tour coming up April twenty eighth through
Speaker 1: May tenth. We're all gonna meet in Cairo. The itinerary
Speaker 1: is such that most of the sites we go to
Speaker 1: we'll have private visits, and this is where you need
Speaker 1: to have a expert tour guide with us who can
Speaker 1: open doors. And what makes us fun is that we
Speaker 1: get out, we get to touch, we get this walk
Speaker 1: among these amazing sites, and the concluding event is a
Speaker 1: walk inside the Great Kufu Pyramid. I've been talking about
Speaker 1: this forever and this tour is special because it's everywhere
Speaker 1: we go to is unique special. We get to climb
Speaker 1: in pyramids, we get to climb on temples and sacred sites.
Speaker 1: It's fun to be a part of that tour. I'm
Speaker 1: excited about it because we're all will almost half full
Speaker 1: right now and I want to get as many people
Speaker 1: on this tour as possible. For the full itinerary and
Speaker 1: details go to Earth Ancients dot com. Four Slash Tours.
Speaker 1: You'll see the full itinerary. If you have any questions whatsoever,
Speaker 1: send me an email. Send it to the ancients the
Speaker 1: number four of the letter you at gmail dot com
Speaker 1: and I'll get right back to you. All of our
Speaker 1: tours are reasonably priced and we even have payment plans
Speaker 1: if you're a little tight. So come out join us
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty six, the seventh annual Grant Egyptian Tour
Speaker 1: April twenty eighth through May tenth. Come on and see us.
Speaker 1: All right, that's it for this program. I want to
Speaker 1: thank my guest today, Jonathan Miller Weisberger, coming to us
Speaker 1: from Costa Rica. As always, the team of Guil Tour,
Speaker 1: Mark Foster and Faeiya in Pakistan. You guys rock all right,
Speaker 1: take care if you will, and we will talk to
Speaker 1: you next time.
Speaker 2: Another rainy afternoon. I don't know what I'm to do.
Speaker 2: I just miss you more than anything. It's way to
Speaker 2: quiet in the house. I'm just waste it on the
Speaker 2: couch because I don't want to feel anything. Wish you
Speaker 2: stay stayed here excited me. This isn't how it's supposed
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 3: Wish you stay stay here with me?
Speaker 2: I can't shame the feeling