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Speaker 1: I want you to just for a second close your

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eyes picture this. You're strapped into a seat that costs

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more than a high end sports car. You're inside this

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fuselage and it has that distinct smell, you know, that

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mix of recycled air, a little bit of ozone and

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high octane fuel.

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Speaker 2: You're in a Merlin C twenty six A. This is

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a serious piece of military hardware exactly.

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Speaker 1: And you're not just looking out a window. You are

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staring into this bank of monitors and they're all hooked

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up to a star Safire three electro optical system.

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Speaker 2: Which is I mean, that's just the fancy, sterilized way

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of saying you have a camera that can see a

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lit cigarette from three miles away in the pitch black.

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Speaker 1: You're the eye in the sky. Your whole job is

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incredibly specific. Find the heat signatures, find the drug runners

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who are just skimming across the Gulf of Mexico.

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Speaker 2: And you know the rules of the game. Physics is

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a strict mistress. Everything, and I mean everything in our

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atmosphere has to play by her rules.

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Speaker 1: Right. You want lyft, you need airflow, you want propulsion.

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Speaker 2: You generate heat. There's no way around it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but then something happens. A blip appears on your

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screen and it's not a plane. It is definitely not

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a boat. It's a fleet eleven glowing orbs. They're locked

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in this like rigid formation. They're moving its speeds they

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just don't make sense. And their thermal signature, yeah, shouldn't exist.

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Speaker 2: And then comes the part that really messes with your head,

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the scariest part.

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Speaker 1: Your eyes. Your own two eyes, they see eleven of them,

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but your million dollar radar system it only sees three.

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That discrepancy. That's the stuff of nightmares for a pilot,

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for an operator.

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Speaker 2: It's the ultimate reversal, isn't it. The watcher becomes the watched.

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It forces you to question your instruments, then your eyes,

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and then you know, eventually your entire sense of reality.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. I'm your host, and today we

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are pulling on a thread that I think leads us

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straight into the unknown. We aren't looking at some grainy

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polaroids from the nineteen fifties that someone found in their

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grandpa's attic.

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Speaker 2: No, and that's a really crucial distinction to make. Right

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at the top, we are analyzing data. This is data

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captured by government agencies with military grade sensors. This is

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verified footage from the modern era.

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Speaker 1: This is an anecdotal No, it's empirical.

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Speaker 2: We have this whole stack of investigations that were conducted

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by the proof is out there from the History channel,

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and this includes analysis from military experts, physicists, video forensics teams,

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I mean, the whole nine yards.

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Speaker 1: A lot of smart people have looked at this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And the mission for this particular thread is simple, but

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it is also slightly terrifying.

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Speaker 1: We are looking at orbs spheres glowing lights, you know,

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the tic TACs of the sky as they've been called

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more recently, right, and.

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Speaker 2: We're going to examine four distinct cases where these spheres appear.

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They fly in these perfect formations, they dive straight into

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the ocean without making a splash, and this is where

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it gets really really interesting. They seem to have a

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habit of just hanging out new nuclear facilities, which just

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raises this massive question. Are these natural atmospheric phenomena that

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we just don't understand yet? Are they maybe adversarial drones

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from I don't know, a superpower that's way ahead of us,

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or are they something else? Entirely.

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Speaker 1: So let's unpack all of this. We are going to

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start with a case that is I think widely considered

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one of those significant pieces of military footage ever released

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to the public.

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Speaker 2: We're going back to the Gulf of Mexico. This is

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the Mexican Air Force flotilla.

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Speaker 1: Incident, right, so set the scene for us. Get us

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right there in the cockpit. What's happening?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So it's March fifth, two thousand and four. It's

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a routine patrol. You've got this Mexican Air Force surveillance

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plane that's see twenty six a we mentioned, and it's

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scanning the Gulf of Mexico, specifically the campesh region.

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Speaker 1: And their job is counter oncotics purely.

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Speaker 2: They are looking for drug smugglers. And the tool they're

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using is FLR for looking infra red. Now, for anyone

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listening who might not be a total military tech geek,

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FLR doesn't see light the way our eyes do.

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Speaker 1: It sees heat.

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Speaker 2: It sees heat. It's detecting infrared radiation. So on the

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monitor inside that plane, the operator is probably looking at

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what they call white hot or black hot mode.

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Speaker 1: What's the difference there, It's just a.

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Speaker 2: Preference for the operator in white. Hot hotter objects appear white,

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and cooler objects appear black. So a cold ocean at

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night would look dark, gray or black. But the hot

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engine of a smuggler's little Go fast.

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Speaker 1: Boat that would light up like a Christmas tree.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, it would show up as this blindingly bright white dot.

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The whole system is designed specifically to spot that kind

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of heat signature against a cold background. But on this night,

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the camera operator, Lieutenant Mario Adrian Vosquez, he sees something

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that just stops the whole crew in their tracks.

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Speaker 1: It's not a drug runner.

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Speaker 2: It's not a drug runner. It's lights, not just one light.

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The footage which is now famous, it captures the string

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of glowing orbs. At one point they count eleven distinct lights.

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Speaker 1: Eleven and they aren't just you know, buzzing around randomly

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like fireflies. They seem organized, highly organized.

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Speaker 2: They appear to be flying in a four formation, a

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very specific line. And the camera operator, you have to remember,

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this isn't just some guy with a camquorder. This is

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a trained military observer.

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Speaker 1: His job is to identify things in the sky.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and you can hear him on the recording. He

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declares the footage one hundred percent reel and the object's real.

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He's not saying, h I think I see something. He

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is saying, there are solid objects out there, okay.

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Speaker 1: And this is where it gets weird for me. This

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is the detail that always gives me goosebumps when I

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think about this case. They check their other instruments, they

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look at the.

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Speaker 2: Radar, and that is where the whole thing just breaks down.

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That's the core of the anomaly. The infrared camera sees

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eleven objects the planes radar.

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Speaker 1: It only picks up three. Only three, So wait, what

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does that mean are the other eight? What are they?

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Are they ghosts? Are they using some kind of stealth?

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How is that possible?

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Speaker 2: That is the mystery. That's why this case is still

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debated so fiercely. You have a visual confirmation on thermal

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of an entire fleet, but you have a radar return

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that suggests only a few solid objects.

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Speaker 1: So it implies that whatever these things are, either they

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have a radar cross section that radar waves are just

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passing right.

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Speaker 2: Through, or they're implying some kind of advanced jamming or

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stealth technology that we don't understand, or maybe the three

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on radar were different from the eleven on FLR. The

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whole thing is a paradox.

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Speaker 1: And now when this video was released, and it's a

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huge deal that it was released by the Mexican Secretary

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of Defense General Ricardo Clemente Vega Garcia. I mean that's

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not some.

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Speaker 2: Fringe group, No, that's the government, that's the top.

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Speaker 1: They released it, and the UFO community obviously went absolutely wild.

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They saw this as definitive proof of fleets.

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Speaker 2: Well, it definitely echoes those historical accounts, doesn't it. It

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goes all the way back to the Foo fighters from

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World War Two.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, the orbs that would just follow Allied pilots

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over Europe exactly.

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Speaker 2: Pilots would come back from missions and report these glowing

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balls of light that would just track their wingtips. They'd

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move it impossible speeds. They never shot at them, they

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never showed any hostility. They were just watching.

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Speaker 1: And we saw something pretty similar much more recently, didn't

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we That incident in twenty twenty with Captain Eric Delgadoovermonare.

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He was a commercial pilot flying a cargo plane I

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think correct.

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Speaker 2: An Airbus A three twenty, and he recorded this glowing

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orb just pacing his plane, tracking it for a full

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twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: Twenty minutes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just like this Mexican Air Force case, Delgado's TCAs,

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that's the traffic collision avoidance system, and the air traffic

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controllers on the ground saw absolutely nothing on their radar.

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Speaker 1: So we have a clear pattern here, visual confirmation sometimes

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on multiple spectra like thermal and visible light, but total

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electronic silence on radar.

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Speaker 2: The pattern is what's so compelling.

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Speaker 1: But because this is thrilling threads, we have to look

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at the other side of the coin. Not everyone looks

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at that footage and sees a fleet of alien craft.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. And skepticism is healthy here, in fact,

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it's necessary. The source material we're looking at highlights the

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analysis of Mickwest, who is a very well known forensic

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video analyst and a prominent skeptic, and he.

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Speaker 1: Takes a very pragmatic, very grounded look at the Mexican

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Air Force.

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Speaker 2: Footage he does, and his theory is oil wells oil wells.

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Speaker 1: But the pilot, the crew, they said the objects were flying,

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they were moving with them. Oil Wells tend to stay

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in one place.

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Speaker 2: They're famously stationary they are, but West's argument isn't about

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the oil wells moving. It's about perspective and optics. Specifically,

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it's about something called the parallax effect.

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Speaker 1: Okay, left unpacked parallax. This is one of those concepts

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that I sort of get, but I struggle to visualize

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it sometimes. Can you break it down? Sure?

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Speaker 2: Think of it like this. Imagine you're in a car.

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You're driving down the highway at say, seventy miles per hour.

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You look out your side window. What do you see?

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Speaker 1: The fence posts, the trees right next to the road.

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They're just a blur whush, whush.

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Speaker 2: Whish, exactly impossible to focus on. They are blurring past

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you at high speed. Now, in that same car, look

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past those trees way out to the look at a

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distant mountain range or maybe a bright full moon in

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the sky.

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Speaker 1: It looks like it's standing still, or sometimes it even

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feels like it's following me.

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Speaker 2: Precisely. That is parallax. The closer an object is to you,

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the faster it appears to move relative to your motion.

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The farther away it is, the more stationary it seems. Now,

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to make it more complicated, let's introduce a middle layer

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let's say some clouds.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so clouds between me and the distant mountain. Right.

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Speaker 2: So now if the plane is flying forward and there

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are clouds between the plane and the distant lights, and

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those clouds are also moving, your brain completely loses its

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fixed point of reference. It gets confused, very confused. And

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Mick West argues that the flir camera on that C

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twenty six A was pointing more or less horizontally out

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toward the horizon right where a huge oil field is located,

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the Canterrell oil field.

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Speaker 1: So the argument is that the orbs are actually just

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the burnoff flares that you see on top of the

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oil rigs.

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Speaker 2: That is the theory. The formation of the lights, he argues,

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perfectly matches the known layout of the oil platforms in

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that field and the motion. The fact that they look

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like they're flying alongside the plane is an optical illusion.

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It's caused by the plane moving past them and the

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clouds drifting by in the middle ground.

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Speaker 1: So the free isn't moving at all. The observer is.

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Speaker 2: That's the argument. It's a very clever, grounded explanation.

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Speaker 1: It sounds plausible on paper. I mean, it explains the

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formation perfectly because the oil rigs don't drift out of formation.

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But there have to be holes in that theory, right,

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it feels too simple.

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Speaker 2: There are some significant ones, and the investigators in the

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Proof Is out there really dug into them. First, there's

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the issue of distance.

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Speaker 1: Half far away were they?

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Speaker 2: The investigation team calculated that those oil wells were nearly

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one hundred miles away from the plane's position.

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Speaker 1: One hundred miles Wow. Yeah, with a flame, even a

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big one one hundred miles away, show up that hot

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and that large on a FLR camera.

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Speaker 2: That is the central debate. FLIR is incredibly sensitive, but

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one hundred miles is some massive distance to look through,

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especially through humid maritime air over the Gulf of Mexico.

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There's a lot of atmospheric distortion.

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Speaker 1: But there was something more damning than that, Wasn't there

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something about the light itself?

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Speaker 2: Yes, the visual characteristics. This is the part of the

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counter argument I find most compelling. Fire behaves in a

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very specific way. It flickers, It flickers, it's turbulent. An

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oil flare is an open flame, a chaotic chemical reaction.

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It pulses, it expands, it contracts, it dances.

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Speaker 1: Around, and these orbs in the video.

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Speaker 2: They were steady, They had a constant luminosity. There was

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no flickering at all. They appeared as solid, glowing spheres,

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not like dancing flames. If you look at a simple

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candle flame on a thermal camera, you can see it dancing.

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These were locked in solid.

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Speaker 1: Plus, that still doesn't explain the radar, does it not?

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Speaker 2: Really, the radar issue was still there. If they were

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oil rigs, they wouldn't show up on an airborne radar

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as moving aircraft targets. But they also probably wouldn't appear

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as three distinct blips that seemed to be moving with

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the plane.

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Speaker 1: Right, oil rigs don't show up as bogies on your

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six o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, So you're left with this split decision. If you

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believe mcwest, the crew was disoriented, they misread the range

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to the horizon, and they got spooped by a complex

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optical illusion of distant fire.

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Speaker 1: But if you believe the crew and the other analysts.

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Speaker 2: Then they were surrounded by eleven objects that defied both

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radar and our understanding of aerodynamics.

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Speaker 1: And then another expert they brought in, marked D'Antonio. He

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looked at the other conventional theory. Could it have been

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a convoy of drug smuggler planes?

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Speaker 2: Right, maybe they were flying in formation. But D'Antonio points

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out that smugglers just don't do that. They don't fly

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in these championship level formations like the Blue Angels or

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the Thunderbirds.

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Speaker 1: It's the opposite of stealthy exactly.

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Speaker 2: Smugglers separate to avoid detection. They fly low, they fly erratically,

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they scatter, They do not form a tidy parade line

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in the sky. D'antonio's conclusion was that the behavior of

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the lights completely rules out conventional aircraft.

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Speaker 1: So we are left with a Mexican Air Force crew.

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These are trained observers, and they are on the record

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saying it's real. We have their government releasing the tape

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and essentially saying we don't know what this is, and

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then we have debunkers saying it's just oil rigs, which

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doesn't quite fit all the data.

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Speaker 2: It remains a genuinely unexplained event. And what I find

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so fascinating and frankly refreshing is that the Mexican government

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was willing to say science, please help us. They didn't

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bury it, they didn't classify it into oblivion.

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Speaker 1: They ask for answers, which is more than we can

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say for some other governments, certainly historically. But let's shift gears.

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Let's move from the air over the Gulf of Mexico

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to the waters of the Caribbean. Because if you think

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formation flying is weird, just wait until you hear about

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what happened in Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: This is the Aguadilla incident August twenty fifth, twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: This one is just it's wild. The setup is a

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US Customs and Border Patrol plane, it's a DHC eight

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turboprop and it's taking off from Rafael Hernandez Airport in Aguadilla,

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Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: It's a routine mission, just after nine pm, so it's dark,

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and as they're climbing out, they spot a strange pinkish

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light approaching from the northwest over the ocean.

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Speaker 1: And again, what's the first thing they do. They switch

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to thermal imaging. This is high quality military grade equipment.

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We're not talking about an iPhone.

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Speaker 2: Video here, No, this is top of the line gear and.

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Speaker 1: What they captured has become absolutely legendary. In these circles.

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On the thermal camera, it's this metallic looking sphere and

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it's maybe three to five feet wide, and it is

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booking it.

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Speaker 2: It's moving fast, it's zipping around the airport. Then it

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heads out over the ocean. And this is where we

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have to talk about a concept called trans medium travel

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trans medium.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like something from a seance.

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Speaker 2: It does, but it's a real physics and engineering term.

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A medium is just the substance you're moving through. Air

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is a medium, water is a medium.

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Speaker 1: And moving through them requires totally different physics.

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Speaker 2: Totally different. Moving through air requires aerodynamics, wings, lift control surfaces.

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Moving through water requires hydrodynamics, propellers, ballast. They are vastly

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different environments with completely different densities.

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Speaker 1: Right, you can't fly a plane underwater, and you definitely

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can't fly a submarine in the air exactly.

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Speaker 2: Water is roughly eight hundred times denser than air. If

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a conventional aircraft hits the water at high speed, it's

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like hitting concrete. It disintegrates. But in the Anguidilla video,

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this sphere flies over the ocean. It's moving at about

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ninety five miles per hour and then it just enters

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the water.

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Speaker 1: It splashes down, but it doesn't crash.

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Speaker 2: No, it submerges. It barely even slows down. It just

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goes right in and then just a few seconds later

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it re emerges. It transitions from air to water and

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then back to air seamlessly.

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Speaker 1: And then, as if that's not impossible enough, it does

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something even crazier.

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Speaker 2: It splits bifurcation, that's the term for it. Upon re

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emerging from the water, the single object splits into two

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separate distinct craft. They fly in formation for a little bit,

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and then one seems to be absorbed back into the

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other before it flies away.

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Speaker 1: Ploop. Now there are two yes.

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Speaker 2: And this is the point where all the conventional natural

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phenomenon arguments just start to completely fall apart. You can

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argue about balloons or drones for a light in the sky,

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but you can argue that a balloon can fly, submerge

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without damage, pop back out of the ocean, and then

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clone itself midair.

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Speaker 1: No know on Earth technology can do that, not even close. Now.

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The source material mentioned a group called the Scientific Coalition

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for UAP Studies or SCU. They did a really deep

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dive pun intended into this footage. What did they find

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out about its physical properties? Like it's heat?

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Speaker 2: This is just a brilliant piece of forensic analysis by

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Rich Hoffman and his team at SCU. They needed to

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determine the temperature of the object to get a clue

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about its propulsion system.

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Speaker 1: So how do you do that from a grainy thermal video.

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Speaker 2: Well, they got lucky. They used the thermal footage and

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they found a frame where there were cows on the

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ground near the airport. Cows cows. They used the cows

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as a thermal baseline because we know the approximate body

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temperature of a cow. By analyzing the gray scale of

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the video, breaking the image down into two hundred and

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fifty six shades of gray, they could match the temperature

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of the object to the known temperature of the livestock.

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Speaker 1: That is unbelievably clever. It's like something out of a

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detectives show.

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Speaker 2: It is, it's brilliant. And the result they got was

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that the object was approximately one hundred and four degrees fahrenheit.

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Speaker 1: One hundred and four degrees so that's warm, but.

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Speaker 2: It's not hot exactly. A jet engine's exhaust is somewhere

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around fifteen hundred degrees, fifteen times hotter than this object.

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If this were a missile or a jet power drone,

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it would be glowing white hot off the charts on

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that camera one hundred and four degrees. Is it's strangely

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biological or maybe it's indicative of some kind of low

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heat mechanical system we just can't comprehend.

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Speaker 1: What about the size? How do they figure that out?

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Speaker 2: Another clever bit of analysis. There's a point in the

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video where the object flies behind a light post at

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the airport. Since they know the dimensions of the light post,

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they can use it as a ruler, essentially to calculate

385
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the object's size.

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Speaker 1: And they came up with three to five feet in diameter.

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Speaker 2: Correct, So it's small.

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Speaker 1: So let's go through the checklist of conventional explanations. What

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00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,440
about a bird, a really warm one.

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Speaker 2: They looked at that. Hoffman notes that the thermal signature

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didn't match what they call biological avionics. The way a

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bird's heat is distributed across its body, its wings, its head,

393
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plus the speed the maneuvers the lack of any flapping

394
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wing structures, it rules out a bird pretty definitively.

395
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Speaker 1: Okay, what about a balloon? That's always the go to

396
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explanation for weird things in the sky.

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Speaker 2: The wind data just kills the balloon theory. The SCU

398
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team pulled the meteorological records for that night. The wind

399
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was blowing steadily at eighteen miles per hour from the

400
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northeast and the object, the object was moving against the

401
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wind and also maneuvering in all directions. Balloons are slaves

402
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,640
to the wind. They don't do that, okay, So.

403
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Speaker 1: Not a balloon, not a bird, not a conventional drone,

404
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,720
because drones have rodors or wings, and this was a

405
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smooth sphere that's certainly not a drune that can go

406
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,000
for a swim and then duplicate itself.

407
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Speaker 2: We are left with a genuine high strangeness anomaly. And

408
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what's interesting is that it fits into a much larger

409
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context for that specific area. Puerto Rico has this long

410
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documented history of USO's unidentified sub merged objects.

411
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Speaker 1: Right The sources mentioned a case from way back in

412
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nineteen sixty three involving the USS.

413
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Speaker 2: WASP, Yes, a major anti submarine warfare exercise. They were

414
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tracking a submersible objects that was traveling at speeds and

415
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depths that were frankly impossible for any submarine of that

416
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era or even this era, something like one hundred and

417
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fifty knots underwater, and.

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Speaker 1: Then in the nineties there were other reports.

419
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Navy pilots operating in the region reported seeing these

420
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huge dark masses moving at incredible speeds deep underwater.

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Speaker 1: It really makes you wonder what is going on down

422
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there in the Puerto Rico Trench, the deepest part of

423
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the Atlantic. We're always looking up at.

424
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Speaker 2: The sky, so maybe we should be looking down. The

425
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ocean is the perfect place to hide. It cover seventy

426
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percent of our planet, and we have mapped less of

427
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the ocean floor than we have the surface of Mars.

428
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If you were an advanced intelligence and you wanted to

429
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monitor Earth.

430
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Speaker 1: The ocean is the perfect base of operations absolutely, which

431
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:12,160
brings us to our next thread. We've talked about military

432
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surveillance planes, We've talked about border patrol, but what happens

433
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when these things show up near something even more sensitive

434
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than our borders. Let's talk about nukes.

435
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Speaker 2: This is a deeply disturbing pattern, and it's one that

436
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goes back to the very dawn of the atomic age.

437
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Speaker 1: So we're jumping forward now to twenty nineteen. We're in

438
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Two Creeks, Wisconsin, and this is a civilian sighting this time.

439
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Speaker 2: That's right, The witness is a man named Miles Pinoche.

440
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He's a Marine Corps veteran. He's at home. He looks

441
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at his window and he sees this bright light in

442
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the sky. He doesn't have a good camera, so he

443
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actually calls a neighbor who comes out and films it.

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Speaker 1: And the footage shows this large, glowing orange orb in

445
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the darkness, and there are three smaller dimmer lights nearby.

446
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Speaker 2: Visually it's pretty spooky, but the context here is everything.

447
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,200
The location is what makes this case so important. This

448
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was filmed directly over the Point Beach Nuclear power plant.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we have to ask the question, why do

450
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they love our nuclear facilities? Is it like a refueling station?

451
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Are they siphoning off energy somehow?

452
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Speaker 2: That is one of the more exotic theories that they

453
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,119
utilize the high energy output from these plants for some

454
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,240
kind of recharge. But there is another theory one that

455
00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:25,920
is a little bit more well, a bit more humbling

456
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for us. It's called the galactic zoo theory.

457
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Speaker 1: I love this one, ok tell us about the galactic zoo.

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Speaker 2: The concept, in a nutshell is that some advanced non

459
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,400
human intelligence is monitoring us the same way we monitor

460
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animals in a wildlife preserve or a zoo.

461
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Speaker 1: So we're the monkeys and Earth is the enclosure.

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Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, And the theory goes, when the monkeys and

463
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the enclosure get a hold of matches or in our case,

464
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nuclear weapons, the zookeepers get very, very concerned.

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Speaker 1: So they aren't intervening to say hello, they're intervening to

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make sure we don't and down the habitat exactly.

467
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Speaker 2: It's a planetary management perspective. They're just checking on their investment,

468
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making sure the pets don't destroy the cage with their

469
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new toys.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't just a theory that was born from

471
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this one Wisconsin case, right, I mean, there's a serious

472
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,000
historical precedent for this. Oh.

473
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely. The source material brings up the famous Malmstrom Air

474
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,240
Force Base incident from nineteen sixty seven. And this isn't folklore.

475
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,839
This is a case that has been verified by multiple

476
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,839
military witnesses, including officers, and it's been discussed in recent

477
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:30,880
congressional hearings.

478
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 1: So what happened at Malmstrom?

479
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 2: A red glowing orb appeared over one of the minute

480
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,240
Man nuclear missile launch facilities in Montana, and suddenly the

481
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,839
missiles in that silo. These are independently powered, heavily secured,

482
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,599
isolated systems. They started shutting down one by one. The

483
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,240
launch readiness lights went from green to red. They went offline.

484
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: That is absolutely terrifying. I mean, if they have the

485
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,559
capability to turn them.

486
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 2: Off, can they turn them on? That's the terrifying implication.

487
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,400
It demonstrated a capability to remotely manipulate our most secure,

488
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:05,759
most dangerous technology. So when we see an orange orb

489
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,759
hovering over a nuclear plant in Wisconsin in twenty nineteen,

490
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,160
the immediate thought in this community is they're back. They're

491
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,519
checking on the inventory butt and.

492
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: There was always a butt on thrilling threads. We have

493
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,680
to look at the specific evidence for this Wisconson case,

494
00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:22,160
and the analysis here takes a very sharp turn away

495
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:22,960
from the paranormal.

496
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,799
Speaker 2: It does. An aviation expert they consulted, Tim McMillan. He

497
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,279
points out that while the object was in restricted airspace,

498
00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:31,599
the light itself didn't do anything extreme. There was no

499
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,160
sudden acceleration, no impossible turns like we see in other cases.

500
00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:37,200
It was just hanging there.

501
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: In rich Hoffman, the same analysts who did that brilliant

502
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,480
work on the Puerto Rico video. He had a very

503
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,599
different take on this one.

504
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 2: Yes, and this shows how good science works. Hoffman didn't

505
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,880
go in with a preconceived notion. He analyzed the video

506
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,759
frame by frame, and he noticed something very subtle. There

507
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,680
was a brief flash of a structure that was illuminated

508
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,359
below the light. It looked like the roof of a building.

509
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:00,759
Speaker 1: So the light wasn't slowing eye up in the sky.

510
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: Baffman believes it was attached to a structure on the

511
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,200
ground or at least very low. He analyzed the perspective

512
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,640
of the shot and concluded that the camera was looking

513
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,599
more or less straight ahead, not angled up at the sky.

514
00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: And the color the orange glow.

515
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: High pressure sodium vapor lights. They're extremely common for industrial areas,

516
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:23,480
parking lots, street lights. They emit that very distinct monochromatic

517
00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:27,680
orange glow. Hoffmann's conclusion is that despite the sincere belief

518
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,599
of the marine veteran that it was an object in

519
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,559
the sky, the video most likely shows distant street lights

520
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,799
or security lights on a building, perhaps distorted by atmospheric conditions.

521
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: Wow, that is a tough one because you have a

522
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:45,039
very credible witness and marine saying I know what I saw.

523
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,880
It was in the sky, and then you have careful

524
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,319
video analysis that says it's a street light.

525
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: And it highlights this constant tension between eyewitness testimony and

526
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,359
forensic video evidence. At night, without any points of reference

527
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,960
for depth perception, a light on a distant hill can

528
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,799
easily look like a light hovering in the sky. There's

529
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:06,200
even a name for it. It's called the autokinetic effect.

530
00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:08,079
Speaker 1: Autokinetic effect, what's that?

531
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 2: It's a physiological trick your own body plays on you.

532
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,920
If you stare at a single stationary point of light

533
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,160
in a pitch black environment, your eye muscles make these tiny,

534
00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:21,119
involuntary micro movements to keep the image centered. Okay, your

535
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,440
brain doesn't know your eyes are moving, so it interprets

536
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,720
that motion as the object itself moving around. It's a

537
00:25:25,839 --> 00:25:29,640
very common illusion. Even experienced pilots get fooled by it

538
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,839
when looking at a single star or a distant light.

539
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: So the Wisconsin case might be a bust as far

540
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,640
as proving alien visitation goes, But that galactic zoo theory

541
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,559
it still remains a pretty compelling explanation for why the

542
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,680
genuine phenomena seem to congregate around our military and nuclear sites.

543
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: It does. It provides a motive if we are being watched,

544
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,000
our weapons of mass destruction are probably the most interesting

545
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,759
and alarming things about us from an outside perspective.

546
00:25:57,039 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move to our final case for today. We've

547
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,279
had the deepot ocean, we've had the nuclear plant. Now

548
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,000
let's go to a much more mundane setting. Let's go

549
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,200
to a backyard.

550
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: Barbecue Independence Day, Almans, North Carolina.

551
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,599
Speaker 1: It's July fourth. You can imagine the scene. Fireworks are

552
00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:14,359
probably going off. A local man is outside with his family,

553
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,720
just looking up at the sky and he sees something

554
00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:18,640
that is definitely not a firework.

555
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: It's a classic orb a bright glowing sphere. But the

556
00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:24,359
key detail here right off the bat is the duration.

557
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,799
Speaker 1: Right meteors last for a second, maybe two fireworks last

558
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:30,880
for a few seconds. This object was filmed for over

559
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:31,759
eight minutes.

560
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: Eight minutes is an eternity when you're holding a camera

561
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:35,720
up to the sky.

562
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: It really is. And at the six and a half

563
00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:42,599
minute mark of the video we see that familiar trick again, bifurcation.

564
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:44,599
It splits. You can hear the witness on the tabe

565
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,799
he's just yelling one went up, one's coming down.

566
00:26:47,319 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: The main orb appears to release smaller objects. It splits

567
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,599
into three distinct lights, and as it does this, the

568
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,440
shape of the main object changes. It streamlines that elongates

569
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,559
into a kind of tear drop shape.

570
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: Now I've seen my share of weather balloons. They are around,

571
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,799
there's spheres usually yes.

572
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 2: But the skeptics and specifically marked Antonio in this initial

573
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,119
phase of analysis, they looked at that tear drop shape

574
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,440
and he suggested that maybe it was a weather balloon.

575
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,680
And what they filmed was the payload breaking off.

576
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,319
Speaker 1: So like the box with the instruments, the bottom falls

577
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,759
off and the now lighter balloon just shoots up.

578
00:27:21,759 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: Work, that's the idea. And as it shoots up rapidly,

579
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:28,599
the aerrsistance would stretch it vertically, potentially creating that tear

580
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,039
drop shape. It's a very logical physics based theory, but.

581
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: Logic has to match all the data. And this is

582
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,319
where Deanna Hence, who is an atmospheric scientist, comes in

583
00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:40,400
to sort of rain on the balloon parade.

584
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:43,839
Speaker 2: She does. She points out a few critical flaws in

585
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,480
that weather balloon theory. First, the payload the weather instruments,

586
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,519
they usually come down on parachutes. They're designed to be recovered.

587
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:53,599
They don't just break off and plummet to the ground.

588
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. What else?

589
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,559
Speaker 2: The brightness? This is a big one. Balloons are reflective,

590
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,279
they reflect sunlight. But this was at night and the

591
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:05,400
object in the video isn't reflecting light, it's emitting light.

592
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:07,960
It was glowing intensely on its own.

593
00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:09,079
Speaker 1: And the real ticker.

594
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: The local National Weather Service office confirmed there were no

595
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:15,799
official weather balloons released in that area at that time.

596
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: So no balloon. The reflectivity ruled out birds. There were

597
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,799
no FAA lights, so it's not a plane or a drone,

598
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:25,279
and it lasted way too long to be a meteor.

599
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: We are left with another genuine unidentified label on this case.

600
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,200
But I want to touch on something else that was

601
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,480
brought up in the investigation by a researcher named Alexis Brooks.

602
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:38,279
She mentioned the contact encounter hypothesis.

603
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:40,759
Speaker 1: This is the idea that's linked to the duration of

604
00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:41,519
the sighting. Right.

605
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,759
Speaker 2: Yes. She suggests that if a sighting lasts for an

606
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,680
extended period, say five minutes or more, it might be

607
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,519
more than just a passive observation. It might involve a

608
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:54,599
form of non human intelligence making some kind of subconscious contact.

609
00:28:54,359 --> 00:28:57,319
Speaker 1: That feels like a bit of a stretch. But it's

610
00:28:57,359 --> 00:28:59,920
interesting that the witness himself said he felt a conne

611
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,680
to it. He actually called the local military base to

612
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,279
report it, got no real answers, and he felt, well,

613
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:08,119
he felt ignored.

614
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: It adds this whole other psychological component to the phenomenon.

615
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,279
If these things are real and they are watching us,

616
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,920
is the interaction purely physical, a nuts and bolts thing,

617
00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:21,039
or is there a cognitive a consciousness aspect that we

618
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:22,240
are completely missing.

619
00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:24,759
Speaker 1: So let's try to bring all these different threats together.

620
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,960
We have Mexico, Puerto Rico, Wisconsin, in North Carolina. When

621
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,640
you lay them all out, what's the picture that's forming here?

622
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,599
Speaker 2: I think the picture is one of a technology or

623
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,440
a phenomenon with an incredibly advanced capability, a capability that

624
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:40,640
ignores our borders and our physical mediums. We see this

625
00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:44,799
recurring theme of bifurcation, the ability to split into multiple objects.

626
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,799
Speaker 1: We saw it in the water in Puerto Rico, and

627
00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:49,079
we saw it in the air in North Carolina.

628
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,319
Speaker 2: Which suggests it's not just a single vehicle. Maybe it's

629
00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:55,400
a carrier of some kind or a probe deployment system.

630
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: It can multiply its presence exactly.

631
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: Then you have the heat signatures. In the Porto ric case,

632
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:03,079
the object was one hundred and four degrees warm, but

633
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:07,119
not propulsion hot like a jet engine. In the Mexico case,

634
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,799
the objects didn't flicker like fire. This points to an

635
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,519
energy source that is efficient and low heat, something we

636
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:15,079
don't have.

637
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: And then there are locations they are consistently seen watching

638
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,400
our borders, like in Mexico, They're in our oceans like

639
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,920
off Puerto Rico, and they are very interested in our

640
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,839
energy and weapons and infrastructure like in Wisconsin and the

641
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,440
historical Malmstrom case.

642
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: It all reinforces that surveillance hypothesis. Whether you want to

643
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,519
call it the galactic zoo theory or just simple reconnaissance,

644
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,359
the pattern suggests an intelligence that is methodically gathering data

645
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,160
on Earth's capabilities and strategic assets.

646
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: And in terms of the sources themselves, we have this

647
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:47,599
mixed bag, which I think actually adds credibility to the

648
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,079
whole topic.

649
00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:51,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree. If every single video was one

650
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,039
hundred percent definitely aliens, it would actually be more suspicious.

651
00:30:56,079 --> 00:30:58,599
What we have is a more realistic picture, right, so

652
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:02,519
Mexico genuine Un explained that radar visual mismatch is just

653
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,480
too hard to debunk with simple explanations. Puerto Rico genuine

654
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:10,200
unexplained and probably the strongest case of the four, that

655
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:13,680
trans medium capability is the smoking gun for a technology

656
00:31:13,799 --> 00:31:17,160
far beyond our own was a concept Likely explained. It's

657
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,839
a great example of why we have to be so

658
00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:22,759
careful and not let our desire to believe override the evidence.

659
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,000
It shows that even credible witnesses can be mistaken.

660
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: And finally, North Carolina, I'd.

661
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,519
Speaker 2: Say genuine unexplained the weather balloon theory was the best

662
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,119
conventional shot and it just doesn't hold up against the

663
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,000
atmospheric data and the visual evidence.

664
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:39,079
Speaker 1: So it really is a puzzle, a puzzle with pieces

665
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:41,640
that just don't fit into the box that science and

666
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,640
physics have given us.

667
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: And that is the most exciting part of science, isn't it.

668
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,160
When the pieces don't fit, it means you need a

669
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:47,839
bigger box.

670
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,799
Speaker 1: So here's the thought I want to leave all of

671
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:51,920
you with Today. We talked about this idea of the

672
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,000
galactic zoo. We humans, We love our zoos, We build them,

673
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,079
we feed the animals, we treat their disease as we

674
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,559
watch them. But if we saw a chimpanzee in an

675
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,079
enclosure suddenly playing with a live hand grenade, we would

676
00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:05,599
step in.

677
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:08,799
Speaker 2: Or if the chimpanzee started systematically dismantling the cage.

678
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: Right, So, if there is a higher intelligence out there

679
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:15,640
watching our zoo, are they benevolent keepers? Are they just

680
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,000
trying to stop us from nuking the cage? Or are

681
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,720
they just watching the greatest reality show in the cosmos

682
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:22,480
waiting to see if we get canceled.

683
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: It's a very humbling question to ask. Are we as

684
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:32,119
a species worth saving or are we just interesting to watch?

685
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, the listener, directly, if

686
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,960
you were the zoo keeper of Earth, would you intervene?

687
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,480
Would you stop us from making our big mistakes? Or

688
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:42,160
would you let nature take its course? And what do

689
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,400
you make of that split we saw in Puerto Rico,

690
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,799
that bifurcation? Is that technology or could it be some

691
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,279
kind of strange biology we haven't even discovered yet.

692
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 2: Leave your answer in the comments. We do read them,

693
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,240
and honestly, the theories that you all come up with

694
00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:58,119
are often better and more creative than the experts.

695
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on this session of thrilling threads.

696
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:04,720
Keep your eyes open, keep watching the skies, and we

697
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:05,960
will see you in the next one.

698
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:06,799
Speaker 2: Stay curious,