1
00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:05,200
Speaker 1: Ola the gates. Dear Rich, how are you already?

2
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,919
Speaker 2: Irish people are helping to shape the EU of the future.

3
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,439
Now it's your turn. The EU is currently recruiting for

4
00:00:11,519 --> 00:00:14,679
roles across lots of exciting areas. If you're an Irish

5
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,800
citizen with a degree and the second EU language which

6
00:00:17,839 --> 00:00:20,679
includes Irish, that could be a role for you. Bring

7
00:00:20,719 --> 00:00:24,000
a little more Ireland to the EU. Find out how

8
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,120
to apply at Ireland dot e forward slash EU Jobs

9
00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:29,519
brought to you by the Government of Ireland.

10
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,679
Speaker 1: But police don't think Kevin's death what's an accident?

11
00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,200
Speaker 2: In the new Sky original crime drama three years.

12
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 3: Apart, Kevin died and they say, starring Kelly Riley and

13
00:00:41,719 --> 00:00:44,359
Race Spawn, if we find anything that could link the cases,

14
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,679
then we'll link them. We don't have time.

15
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,600
Speaker 1: Evidence has already been washed away.

16
00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:50,799
Speaker 3: No secrets are safe from the storm.

17
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 2: I need to find out.

18
00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:55,119
Speaker 3: What watch under Soul to Marsh, available now on Sky

19
00:00:55,439 --> 00:00:57,359
eighteen plus requires a Sky TV subscription.

20
00:00:57,399 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: Content available from thirtieth of January twenty twenty six.

21
00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 3: Further terms of place.

22
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,959
Speaker 2: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly, flapping

23
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,560
his wing, big down in the forest.

24
00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:08,959
Speaker 4: Man it gonna cause the tree.

25
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,040
Speaker 2: Fall letting five thousand miles away.

26
00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 4: Man, nobody seen it.

27
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,680
Speaker 1: Nobody else, you know, mean.

28
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,879
Speaker 2: No man like you followed a little story.

29
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,519
Speaker 1: And you got backed like that, win Man got.

30
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:26,400
Speaker 2: Back to day on the panel.

31
00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:36,799
Speaker 4: Man Man, you don't don't matter many, all right, bug

32
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,840
Man Hagel, Welcome to the Jay Burdon Show. How you doing?

33
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,480
Speaker 3: Hi, glad to be here.

34
00:01:43,359 --> 00:01:46,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we got connected. We have some some mutuals

35
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,359
on Twitter, and so, you know, I'm familiar with who

36
00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:50,920
you are and what you do, but some of my

37
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,079
audience might not be. So what do you do on

38
00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:53,640
the internet?

39
00:01:55,159 --> 00:02:00,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I started my account of the long and

40
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,840
short of it is. I was active on Reddit. I

41
00:02:03,879 --> 00:02:06,640
wasn't really active anywhere else. I got permanently banned from Reddit,

42
00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:09,159
and so I just started posting on Twitter. I was

43
00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:13,520
in law school. I was really frustrated with the environment

44
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,439
in law school. It was it was obviously very asymmetric

45
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,560
in terms of the opinions of the professor the students

46
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,960
in general, and so I kind of used Twitter as

47
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,560
my outlet to kind of lamit the cultural environment as

48
00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:37,280
well as the political environment. On Twitter, I have a

49
00:02:37,439 --> 00:02:41,159
mix of topics. I cover. I used to cover a

50
00:02:41,159 --> 00:02:44,639
lot more of kind of esoteric history. I covered a

51
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,159
lot more about Hegel, kind of the hermetic influences on

52
00:02:49,199 --> 00:02:57,199
the Protestant Reformation, some stuff about Kabbola, how Kabla had

53
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,680
influenced certain Protestant schism movements, the Moravians and the Atabaptists.

54
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,840
But nowadays I'm really busy, So I just I just

55
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,360
kind of do some like a surface level of political commentary.

56
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:11,960
And that's kind of the long and short of it.

57
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because if you talk to older people,

58
00:03:19,879 --> 00:03:24,800
right boomers will just use that that slur. There's you know,

59
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,439
this idea that, oh, you know, once these these college kids,

60
00:03:28,719 --> 00:03:30,800
you know, as broadly defined as that term is, hit

61
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,879
the real world, then they'll realize right there, their parents

62
00:03:34,919 --> 00:03:39,240
were right all along. And I didn't get anything after

63
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,560
my undergrad degree. I burnt out on education for you know,

64
00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:48,000
any number of reasons. But it's sort of interesting that

65
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,520
that you know, idea of you know, getting in the

66
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,280
real world, you know, quote unquote uh really never seems

67
00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,280
to pan out, to be perfectly honest, and that track

68
00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:03,240
of education, you know, from undergrad to your graduate degree

69
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,879
post grad all that it's like this this treadmill to

70
00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:10,919
make you more and more of an obnoxious progressive hall monitor.

71
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,120
You know, it's kind of like chasing gold stars. And

72
00:04:14,639 --> 00:04:17,480
so you mentioned, of course, right that you know law

73
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,079
school was non representative, right, it was very much one opinion.

74
00:04:22,759 --> 00:04:25,199
So what was it like being a sort of a

75
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,360
dissident in that in that space, if you will.

76
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I I went to a Bury. My my

77
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,160
undergrad degree is in biochemistry, and I also I did

78
00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:39,920
a dual jd and masters as a little background, my

79
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,920
undergrad my undergrad, I was a bit more insulated despite

80
00:04:43,959 --> 00:04:48,439
going to a more liberal undergraduate program because of the

81
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,360
fact that I was in STEM and so I was

82
00:04:52,519 --> 00:04:57,319
less I was less around the more kind of let's say,

83
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,959
radical cohorts in my undergrad but I was still exposed

84
00:05:01,959 --> 00:05:04,920
to it here and there. I won't go into the details.

85
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,639
So there's a couple of big scandals with uh, like

86
00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:11,439
people got suspended from the sports teams for let's say,

87
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,759
throwing tortillas at a date auction and things like that.

88
00:05:17,879 --> 00:05:21,079
I thought they were outrageous, but I kind of kept

89
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,560
more to myself. It like, it wasn't really in my

90
00:05:23,639 --> 00:05:25,560
face because of the program I was in so I

91
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,839
was like, you know, I'm just want to get this

92
00:05:27,879 --> 00:05:31,480
over with. And then law school, it was it was

93
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:38,480
more unavoidable because this stuff was integral to the coursework itself.

94
00:05:39,079 --> 00:05:42,560
Like in criminal law, you're talking about different types, different

95
00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:47,399
theories for justice, like you have retributive justice, you have

96
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,399
rehabilitative justice, and then you have punitive justice. And there

97
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,439
was obviously a clear preference among U with that particular professor,

98
00:05:56,079 --> 00:05:58,959
like for rehabilitative justice. And for those who don't know,

99
00:05:59,399 --> 00:06:04,160
that's basically where the point of incarceration is rehabilitation of

100
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:09,160
criminals as opposed to protecting the public from them. And

101
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,879
a lot of our problems in criminal justice dim from

102
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,560
the back of the fact that the rehabilitative justice school

103
00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:21,399
is kind of the overarching trend we have been consistently

104
00:06:21,439 --> 00:06:27,680
heading to really since the night late night, And really

105
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,000
I was being successively radicalized in the right wing direction,

106
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,319
and it was really something that happened to me after

107
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,720
I graduated law school and moved to Houston for a

108
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,920
job that really kind of like just blew the whole

109
00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,920
thing up my face, because, like I was, I had

110
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,199
been in Houston for less than a week starting my

111
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,839
new job, and I got burglarized about four days after

112
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,839
I moved there at two am, and it was just

113
00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:01,759
like I just started kind of looking into like the

114
00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:05,160
political environment of the city of Houston, and it was

115
00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:08,480
just kind of one of the first times where like

116
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,800
my politics kind of or like the opposition to my

117
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:18,959
politics viscerally interacted with me. And I was just like,

118
00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:23,480
this is not working. Like I'm a young new grad

119
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,920
and I'm being I'm just having all these things like

120
00:07:26,959 --> 00:07:28,800
throw it in my face by no fault to my own.

121
00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:32,759
And I talked to like Boom or family members, and

122
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,439
they just kind of treat it as like the cost

123
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,199
of doing business, like the cost of existing. And I

124
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,720
was like, why why are we accepting this? Like why

125
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,199
why is this something that we are going to put

126
00:07:44,279 --> 00:07:46,439
up with as a society that like like kind of

127
00:07:46,519 --> 00:07:48,319
people who go out of their way to be lawbiding,

128
00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:54,759
productive citizens are just effectively at the whims of any

129
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,199
petty criminal that should choose to victimize them. It was

130
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,120
just an incoherent frame of mind.

131
00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm glad that you brought up the fact that,

132
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,160
in the example of a word, I have a hard

133
00:08:10,199 --> 00:08:14,040
time saying justice. One of the things that I find

134
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,639
incredibly frustrating in an academic setting with many of these

135
00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:20,240
people is that they don't know their own history. They

136
00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:22,839
assume that they are at the cutting edge of a

137
00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:26,720
new idea, right Whereas if you understand it, and you know,

138
00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:29,839
we're antribute to justice, thank you, I finally got it out.

139
00:08:29,839 --> 00:08:33,240
There is one of kind of this cluster of different

140
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,519
ideas that have effectively been in academia since the late

141
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,360
fifties to early sixties. And there's not a new experiment, right,

142
00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:45,559
this is this that we have tried this before with

143
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,840
predictable results, and you know, look like, of course it

144
00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:53,600
produces bad results. You get broken into and you know,

145
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,879
your apartment in Houston. But similarly, it just kind of

146
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,320
bothers me that by alling to power, they get to

147
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,080
sort of play pretend as radicals. Right. Play pretend is

148
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,360
if they've come up with this great new idea that

149
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,879
was old by the time my grandparents were going through school.

150
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,919
It's you know, not the primary objection to it, but

151
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,679
very much something that kind of rubs me the wrong way,

152
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:17,720
if you see what I'm getting at.

153
00:09:18,519 --> 00:09:23,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think part of it is liberalism has

154
00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,240
a degree of staying power and I believe it's because

155
00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:31,759
it is a comforting idea, especially like just Anglo Saxons

156
00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:37,919
in general, but especially Anglo Saxon's post twentieth century kind

157
00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:40,879
of have built their I don't want to say have

158
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,559
created new like American ethogenesis, especially postththr they kind of

159
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:51,039
have where American culture espeal, specifically American Anglo Saxon culture

160
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:58,159
is one of like overcoming basically the constraints of the material,

161
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,919
and they do that through this like having this like

162
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,480
platonic ideal that man is infinitely malleable and you can

163
00:10:06,639 --> 00:10:11,320
infinitely mold man by altering the conditions. It's it's almost

164
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,720
Faustian to the degree because like it allows you to

165
00:10:14,919 --> 00:10:20,919
like this iterative infinitely overcoming the bounds of my bounds

166
00:10:20,919 --> 00:10:23,679
to my conditions. And I believe kind of this like

167
00:10:23,759 --> 00:10:29,960
blink slate egalitarianism is residual of that where like not

168
00:10:30,039 --> 00:10:33,120
even biology is a constraint for us, and you kind

169
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,480
of see this developing in like I know, like transhumanism

170
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,120
is kind of a buzzword, but transhumanism just in terms

171
00:10:40,159 --> 00:10:46,200
of let's say, widening human cognitive capacity through things like

172
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,480
neuralink and like exploring the final Frontier, which is Elon

173
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,759
Musk's entire project. And so I think this kind of

174
00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:58,480
blink slate egalitarianism is just another facet of this, of

175
00:10:58,519 --> 00:11:03,360
this kind of Faucian concept that you can terrorform literally everything,

176
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,720
including like humankind individually and as groups.

177
00:11:10,039 --> 00:11:14,679
Speaker 4: Well, and that's that same idea in the perfect malleability

178
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,320
of man. I think you see it nowhere else more

179
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,639
than in education. The idea is that, you know, the

180
00:11:22,639 --> 00:11:27,399
these certain fields are and kind of stasis made up

181
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,080
of demographics that we don't approve. We want it to

182
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,039
be more representative, more made up of our of our clients.

183
00:11:34,519 --> 00:11:37,519
And so the idea is by simply passing people through

184
00:11:38,039 --> 00:11:41,600
you know, the hallowed halls. It's like, oh, well, Harvard

185
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,759
makes Supreme Court justices. So if we just jam a

186
00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:49,000
bunch of our people, you know, people we decide that

187
00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:53,039
we want through that door, well will just produce you know,

188
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,559
similarly august figures, and by sort of passing through the

189
00:11:56,639 --> 00:12:01,080
magic door, they will become the same thing. You see

190
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:07,240
this as well, honestly, probably more clearly in public school system, right,

191
00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:10,759
the idea is simply like the piece of paper is

192
00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:14,039
the signifier. And so if you can simply increase the

193
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,279
number of people or the sort of people getting something.

194
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,720
They can be molded into that sort of idealized form.

195
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,720
It's very much related to the sort of magic dirt

196
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,200
fallacy you see with immigration, where if we simply take

197
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,799
the entire world and stick them into a place that

198
00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:36,159
was nice ten years ago, well they will enjoy the

199
00:12:36,159 --> 00:12:39,320
benefits of that place being nice, and it become the

200
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,440
same sort of people. Weirdly enough, this kind of reminds

201
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,279
me of the and there's no polite term for this,

202
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:56,679
but the we'll go Friedman's schools after the American Civil War,

203
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:02,600
where effectively you had basic you know, Massachusetts wasps coming

204
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:09,840
down to the reconstructive South in designed to basically eradicate

205
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,480
what was black culture at the time and turn them

206
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:19,440
into progressive white people. Right. And it's funny because, weirdly enough,

207
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,240
a lot of the kind of like Nation of Islam

208
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,039
black separatist types make this exact same point, one of

209
00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:28,480
very few points of agreement I have with those guys.

210
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,440
But effectively it's the same project, right. It's this idea

211
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,159
that we can, through education and training, turn this culture

212
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:39,840
into something like us. It's sort of this bizarre kind

213
00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:43,000
of progressive imperialism, if that term makes sense to.

214
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 1: You, Bookman.

215
00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I believe kind of the one of the

216
00:13:49,759 --> 00:13:54,000
primary historical modes of operation that have or let's say

217
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,440
substraits that have allowed for this to be facilitated. I really,

218
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,279
I might make the stance mad, but I think Protestantism

219
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,720
was really integral as the delivery method for a lot

220
00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:13,440
of these ideas. I'm an orthodox Christian and so but

221
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,720
so take that with what you will. My biases are

222
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,799
out there. But the kind of issue or what I

223
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:29,759
see with Protestantism, especially especially kind of the more apocalyptic types,

224
00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:33,440
they like to compress the transcendent and the inminet and

225
00:14:33,559 --> 00:14:36,960
basically flatten that difference. And so therefore the idea is

226
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,399
like this, we have to pure, imminently purify the world

227
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,559
in order for skistological project to proceeed. And you see

228
00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:50,679
this kind of with the Social Gospel movement and Raush

229
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,960
and Bush back in the eighteen fifties. And like the

230
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,200
Social Gospel and Raush and Bush were really deprogenitors of

231
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,399
a lot of the the Northeast social justice initial initiatives.

232
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,919
They were the kind of inspiration behind the whole house.

233
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,799
They're the inspiration behind a lot of a lot of

234
00:15:10,799 --> 00:15:14,000
the civil civil rights movements. You have a lot of

235
00:15:14,039 --> 00:15:21,200
progressive progressive Protestants participating and encouraging civil rights movements. And

236
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,720
part of this is I think, I think it is

237
00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:27,919
specifically a type of I guess a apocalyptic strain that

238
00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:34,720
is especially unique to evangelicalism, where the mot the mode

239
00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:38,320
of thinking is that purification of the world is necessary.

240
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,840
And so obviously you have to look at the frame

241
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,759
of which one is purifying the world, Like if if

242
00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:51,320
you think the world will be pure given certain precepts,

243
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,879
you are going to follow those precepts to their logical conclusion.

244
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,679
And so if that kind of delivery method is combined

245
00:15:57,759 --> 00:16:02,799
with these pre extant, uh aggressive precepts, that that kind

246
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,399
of religion is going to pull these precepts to their

247
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,799
logical conclusion, which ends up being blank slade galitarianism. Part

248
00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:14,080
of purifying the world is this absolute state of equality.

249
00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:18,759
And that's why the Social Gospel where they were an

250
00:16:18,759 --> 00:16:25,120
integral movement with the Christian socialists, and you kind of

251
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,720
see the Protestant influence on the Fabian society, and there's

252
00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:32,480
all these kind of overlapping strands that kind of point

253
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:39,559
to this weird imanitizing, almost quasi apocalyptic mode of thinking

254
00:16:39,559 --> 00:16:44,120
about politics and human society. I mean, I don't know

255
00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:46,720
if you're familiar with Eric Boglin, but it's Eric Boglin's

256
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,000
famous line of iminitizing the esketon. And that's kind of

257
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,639
what at least the evangelical strain of Prosantism has has

258
00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:55,720
ushered in.

259
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 4: Well, I think fundamentally. And it's funny. I'm not necessarily

260
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,039
like a Southern lost cause type, but you know, they

261
00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:12,960
talk about this quite a bit that effectively what you

262
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,759
have in America is two distinct cultures, right, Northern and

263
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:22,319
Southern culture, with profoundly different views on human nature and

264
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,960
effectively the perfectibility of man. So in a cultural sense,

265
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,119
you see the output of this kind of tragic understanding

266
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,920
of human nature and things like Southern Gothic literature, right,

267
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,680
the idea that man is at his core deeply flawed,

268
00:17:39,319 --> 00:17:42,039
but there is nobility to be found in how you

269
00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:45,720
manage that flaw. Right. Whereas you know the concept of

270
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:48,559
you know, the city on a Hill, which I believe

271
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:54,839
was initially coined by oh, shoot, what was his name?

272
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,920
He was one of the initial pilgrims. I can't quite remember, right,

273
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,039
but this idea of setting up a new novel and

274
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,960
perfected society is something you can sort of bring the

275
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,480
city of God into being in the world. The idea that,

276
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,039
in much the same way talking about education, that you

277
00:18:13,079 --> 00:18:18,359
can fundamentally change what a man is. And actually, if

278
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,039
we're gonna I realized mold Bug has become sort of

279
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:28,519
unfashionable recently, but he has a series of essays on Quakers,

280
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,000
and he particularly talks about the idea of prison, you know,

281
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:35,319
not simply as like a dungeon, we throw you before,

282
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,039
we either let you go or peel your skin off

283
00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:40,920
and set you on fire. You know, this was more

284
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,400
common before they came around, and the idea in that

285
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,119
was basically that, you know, prison was a sort of

286
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,400
like state and judicial form of purgatory or you could

287
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,039
sort of you know, work off your sins. And so

288
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,960
in the early days of these reformatory prism prisons are

289
00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:01,559
what they call them is they have these sort of

290
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:07,119
like comedically like sissify and jobs, you know, like they

291
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,599
just have a box with a paddle full of sand

292
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:12,559
and they just make you turn this wheel for hours

293
00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:14,920
on end, and that was your prison sentence. And okay,

294
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,440
maybe that's better than just you know, eating you know,

295
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,119
mac and cheese and you know, getting in you know,

296
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,119
shive fights with Mexicans or whatever we do in our

297
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,640
prisons now. But you still you have that idea that,

298
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,079
you know, the point of criminal justice is not to

299
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,640
avenge the wrong, punished the guilty, but it is to

300
00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:43,960
produce a measurable like a moral improvement and change in

301
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,079
the criminal himself. It sort of becomes this social engineering project,

302
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,079
and that same idea is scaled up, of course, the

303
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,240
idea that you can do that to an entire society,

304
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,400
which becomes there is a moral duty to do that too,

305
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,920
cultures who are not as enlightened as you are, that

306
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,240
you can you know, wage a massive war or you know,

307
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:07,799
with your own society, or the idea that democracy needs

308
00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:10,279
to be exported to the world. It's this sort of

309
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,720
belief in both the perfectibility of man and also in

310
00:20:14,759 --> 00:20:18,000
your personal moral duty to expand that system as far

311
00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:20,640
as possible. Again, it's that same sort of kind of

312
00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:23,000
progressive imperialism mentioned earlier.

313
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:34,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think two we also kind of forget what

314
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:40,480
civilization is in these conversations, specifically progressive or I don't know.

315
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:43,839
It's like if they forget per se, but they had

316
00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:48,519
this idea of civilization as this kind of abstract thing

317
00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:54,200
that exists independent of people. Like institutions have their kind

318
00:20:54,200 --> 00:21:00,240
of like own ontologically independent existence, and it's it's on

319
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:05,519
the institutions are comprised of people who whom the society

320
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,400
is comprised of institutions or kind of these like standalone

321
00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:17,200
things that exist independent of the society. And to that extent,

322
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,200
like if you've sent that content of the institution to

323
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:22,160
the civilization is like civilization is just a thing that

324
00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:28,039
exists and people happen to inhabit civilization. Whereas I think

325
00:21:28,319 --> 00:21:30,759
my perspective and probably probably it is probably close to

326
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:34,480
your perspective, Like civilization is not independent of the people

327
00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:38,559
that comprisee it. Civilization is an extension of the Ethnos.

328
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,000
It's not something that you can interchange. It is mutually

329
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:47,799
dependent upon the Ethnos. And when we had this kind of.

330
00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 4: Go ahead, oh well, and this is is Demeister's whole

331
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,559
point right writing about constitutions, where it's like the constitution

332
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,680
does not create a people, it describes a people at

333
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,359
a certain time. It has no power in and of

334
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,920
itself and this idea and exactly what you just mentioned

335
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,359
is why when I very rarely decide to post to

336
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,599
social media on Twitter at least, I very afflic get

337
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,720
into the dumbest arguments in the world with both constitutional conservatives,

338
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,160
you know, for the idea that you know, a constitution

339
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:25,160
does not have the ability to enforce or create a culture,

340
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,640
which in my mind is demonstrably true. Right does America

341
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,200
look like it did in seventeen seventy seven? I rest

342
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,119
my point, but also right with the an caps who believe,

343
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,200
you know, that no state should be allowed to regulate

344
00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:44,119
you know, who lives in a certain area and simply

345
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,400
culture is not a factor. But at the same time,

346
00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:50,920
right these these even something is as kind of liberal

347
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,720
as the conception of human rights, you know, the rights

348
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:56,200
enumerated to you, you know, by God or the state,

349
00:22:56,279 --> 00:22:59,519
depending on your view of it. Those are highly cultural.

350
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:06,599
Those are effectively Anglo conceptions, right. The other cultures do

351
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,599
not conceptualize things in such a way. And sorry, I'll

352
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,000
kick it back to you, but I think that's what

353
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,720
makes Demeaster's work so interesting is because he is addressing

354
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,640
that very very early, right, you know, briefly after the revolution,

355
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,440
you know, the idea that you can create a sort

356
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,039
of formalized description or a set of rules that will

357
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,880
guide culture. And clearly that doesn't work. But excuse me,

358
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,400
I interrupted you.

359
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,799
Speaker 3: And this kind of like goes back to the classical

360
00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:42,480
liberal idea, well, let's say the small government conservative Like

361
00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:45,920
the kind of point they're failing to understand is that

362
00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:51,039
small government is only possible when you have authoritarian government

363
00:23:51,319 --> 00:23:55,799
on the borders, on the edges of society. Like I

364
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:58,039
like to think about as like let's say, hard and

365
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,039
stern strictures facing the outside and a more kind of

366
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,519
soft a soft belly. And we we kind of have

367
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,599
this concept in the Orthodox Church with it where it's

368
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,960
called like economia, where the priest has leave to kind

369
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:17,039
of grant you, let's say a little bit of latitude

370
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:21,240
on certain things, given the circumstances of your situation. And

371
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:26,559
I think that that that concept is applicable to civilization.

372
00:24:26,839 --> 00:24:31,880
But it's only and that like basically libertarianism on the

373
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,160
in on the inside of society, whereas a hard shell

374
00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:40,880
facing the outside of society, that type of like kind

375
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,079
of free market, free association where you kind of let

376
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,559
let society run on its own substrates is only possible

377
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,279
if you maintain the integrity of the society from the

378
00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:55,039
inside facing the outside.

379
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:56,799
Speaker 1: Well.

380
00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:02,599
Speaker 4: And it's sort of based in uh a similar a

381
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,119
similar myth, the idea of the neutral institution. You know

382
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,720
that an institution, whether it's the judiciary or you know, education,

383
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,200
whichever can deal with can deal with everyone fairly, that

384
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,119
it has no I guess a negative way to say it,

385
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,559
but it has no sort of bias or prejudice built

386
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,880
into it. Clearly that is is not the case. And

387
00:25:28,079 --> 00:25:31,319
you know, as regards this kind of mix of you know,

388
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,079
authoritarian and libertarianism, it's like, well, to be honest, it's

389
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,079
it's freedom to do what because you know, even when

390
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,599
you look at the constitutional conservative types they hold up

391
00:25:43,079 --> 00:25:45,039
you know, the era of the American founding, the kind

392
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:47,519
of first American republic or if they don't know a

393
00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:49,440
whole lot about history, kind of the first and second

394
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:52,559
you know, pre Lincoln as this example of you know,

395
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,480
maximal freedom. And it's like, well, well, sure like from

396
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,079
a certain perspective, you have quite a lot of freedom.

397
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,599
You don't really have to pay a lot in taxes.

398
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,480
You know, no one can say, you know, no one

399
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,799
can tell you not to you know, drop gamer words

400
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,240
or you know where you can live. But at the

401
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:13,640
same time, like your other forms of kind of modern

402
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,559
freedoms are radically restricted. You have George Washington, for example,

403
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,079
you know, executing soldiers for sodomy. There were blasphemy laws.

404
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,359
You know, if you slept with another man's wife, you

405
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,160
might well end up in a duel and get shot

406
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:31,599
or lynched. So again, right, it is freedom to do

407
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:36,200
what and that is highly cultural, culturally contextual, and also

408
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:41,799
that depends on a certain certain common cultural understanding of

409
00:26:41,839 --> 00:26:46,319
what is and is not acceptable. And in a multicultural society,

410
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:48,119
like there's a reason that you know when you can

411
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,559
look at Aristotle, right, this leads to tyranny because there

412
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:56,640
is no common cultural understanding for that small l libertarian

413
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,880
amount of social freedom. And again I'll reference them twice,

414
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,799
which will said chatting to just an absolute fit of

415
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,640
rage is mold Budd makes this exact point where he

416
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,319
talks about speaking to libertarians, where he says, you know,

417
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,839
the libertarian's mistake is he thinks that he can bring

418
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,039
about and capistan by acting as if it were already

419
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:20,720
the case, by acting as sort of an agorist, and

420
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,200
his point is, no, if you were a libertarian in

421
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:26,720
the current moment, you should be a fascist. You know,

422
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:29,680
you should advocate for, you know, the harshest police state

423
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,720
in the world, because you know, once you have that,

424
00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:35,039
once you have that, you know, that perfect security, that

425
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,680
perfect you know, assurance of punishment of wrongdoers, then that

426
00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:43,960
spontaneous order quote unquote can occur, but does not come

427
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:47,720
out of Somalia. You know, it does not come out

428
00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:53,119
of you know, a lawless, decentralized society. It's plainly not

429
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,279
the case. And so hey, we we've been been talking

430
00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:02,599
a lot about these of critiques of liberalism, these critiques

431
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:06,240
of progressive liberalism, and one of the things that I

432
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,960
can't stop talking about is many of these defenders of

433
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,400
liberalism look at that, look at that attack on the

434
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,279
idea of neutral institutions, look at that, attacks on ideas

435
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:23,480
of secularism, and they say, well, that's exactly what that,

436
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:29,160
in scare quotes woke left does. Therefore, because you criticize liberalism,

437
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,480
you are woke. Therefore the woke right is born a

438
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,359
subject I cannot stop writing long articles on. So I

439
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,559
assume everyone listening to this is sick to hear me

440
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
talk about it, but I'm curious to get your thoughts

441
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:42,960
on that term.

442
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: It's just beyond idiotic and I have negative patience for

443
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:57,480
this type of attempt to shoehorn, say right wingers outside

444
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:02,079
of that classic libertarian conventional oh sorry, classical liberal conventional

445
00:29:02,119 --> 00:29:08,079
libertarian motive politics, because it's kind of like you said,

446
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:13,400
in terms of like the and caps they treat they

447
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,880
try to precipitate and capistan by treating it, treating society

448
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,160
as if it were already in Capistan. Classical liberals and

449
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,759
libertarians they want to implement their policies as society exists,

450
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:31,599
and that requires this having this kind of platonic ideal

451
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,039
of what society currently is and then pretending as if

452
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:41,240
that's the actual way it is. And so the classical

453
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,960
liberals they deny this, but they still operate on the

454
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,240
basis of this kind of blank slatism, this type of

455
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:56,319
almost like dialectical evolution of society where we're all poor,

456
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:02,400
we're all pulled towards this ultimate constitution idea, and if anything,

457
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,680
whenever we stray from that idea, that's because that's not

458
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,279
because of the actual society or constitution itself. That's just

459
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:14,400
because that's just how it works. That's just a temporary setback,

460
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,319
and we cannot lose faith in the ultimate project. And

461
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:19,440
and it's about to be this kind of this kind

462
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:25,319
of like self referential, self referential idea where like great

463
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,920
real classical liberalism hasn't been tried, like it's the ideal

464
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,480
project hasn't been achieved. But they and they and they

465
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,440
point to this era of society. I don't even really

466
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,880
know what area era of society they American society they

467
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,440
point to to kind of justify this point. It's always

468
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:45,880
kind of some ambiguous pleading to the founders or the

469
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,599
Federal's papers. But then you have you have other founders

470
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:55,680
who directly refute their kind of concept that of American

471
00:30:55,759 --> 00:31:00,519
society is this kind of uh, let's say, put potentially

472
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,240
multicultural like utopia. I can't remember. I think it was

473
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:11,720
I think it was James Monroe who who it was

474
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:13,599
it was to Toke Folle and then James Monroe who

475
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:20,240
were speaking of the constitution specifically for white Anglo Saxon Protestants.

476
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,759
And then so it's this like degree of cherry picking,

477
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:27,000
trade picking. The founders they want to idolize, and then

478
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:30,079
even then what words of the founders they want to idolize.

479
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,960
And it's absolutely a deification of the founding. Right in

480
00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:37,160
order in order to have this type of fealty to

481
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,279
this classical liberal idea, you have to you have to

482
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,240
you have to kind of elevate the Constitution to a

483
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:47,759
sacred document one and two, you have to deify the founders.

484
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,960
The Constitution and its processional nature is therefore infallible. The

485
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:59,519
Constitutional conventions are comparable to the Nicean Councils. They're given

486
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:03,000
this staff of infallibility. It is the American founding myth.

487
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:06,119
And if you call that into question, that all of

488
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:09,000
a sudden that you are a heretic. And that's how

489
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,279
they treat you, like the woke word, attaching woke to

490
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,880
these kind of like political categories, all that is a

491
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:22,839
synonym for you've committed a heresy. And obviously some heretics

492
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:27,119
are worse than others, are more destructive, but they're effectively

493
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,319
tranching anyone with the woke label as an equally destructive

494
00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:35,680
heretic and making no distinction between quote unquote heresies.

495
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:40,519
Speaker 4: Well, and the thing that bothers me about this is

496
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:46,880
that they're not even and this was proven by Joel

497
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,920
Berry's I think it was Joel Berry. I didn't watch it.

498
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:53,519
I can't listen to him debate with Dave Green, the

499
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:58,599
distributist or. Dave Green asked him a very simple question, right,

500
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,440
is Thomas Jeffers and racist? Because you know, if you're

501
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,319
an adult about it, regardless of your opinion on Thomas Jefferson,

502
00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:09,519
you can say, well, yes, probably by the standards of

503
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:13,440
our time. But you know, I don't view that as

504
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,000
you know, affecting other things we could or couldn't take

505
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:19,359
from it. You know, it's not a sainted figure. You're

506
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,279
simply a man, a cringe atheist, but you know, impressive

507
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:28,359
in other ways. But the reason that the constitutional conservative

508
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:33,799
position is especially ridiculous is that they truly are the

509
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:39,440
progressives of yesteryear, and so they have to hold that,

510
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,000
you know, simultaneously, are all of these founders sainted figures?

511
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,119
But also they were so ahead of their time they

512
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:50,720
could see into the future, and what they actually meant

513
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:54,880
was something in between, you know, kind of like Ronald

514
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,359
Reagan and you know Bill Clinton's Democratic Party platform. That's

515
00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:01,240
what they really meant. It's this idea that because they

516
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,839
are infallible, and this is what I think they must

517
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:07,480
you know, have all along, you've been in accordance with

518
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:12,199
exactly what I think. And the progressive types run rings

519
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:17,280
about them on this issue because it's it's plainly clear

520
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,119
by again the standards of the modern left that all

521
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:25,280
these men were horrifically racist, again in scare quotes, by

522
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,679
the standards of the day. But it's because of simultaneously

523
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,400
that kind of like deification where they must be perfect,

524
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:39,840
and also the problem of deep down effectively just being progressive.

525
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,599
And so in a way i'd almost I wouldn't agree

526
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,519
with it, but I almost respect the position more if

527
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:51,119
it were. Yes, they were, and it's awesome. You know,

528
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,599
I want to literally, to quote Alex Jones, you know,

529
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:58,000
seventeen seventy six will commence again, warts and all. But

530
00:34:58,079 --> 00:34:59,920
it's not that, you know, it's this sort of ten

531
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,639
tactical invocation where you know, it is sort of bringing

532
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:10,159
these figures kind of like we're casting yourself as a

533
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,280
you know, strict constitutionalist doing exactly what you know, the

534
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,519
sounding document said, while also kind of twisting them to

535
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:22,199
meet modern standards. I am, you know, a Protestant, albeit

536
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:26,280
you know, not a particularly uh when you read enough

537
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,239
to meister right, it kind of throws you for a loop.

538
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,440
But to me it reminds me very much of the

539
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:38,199
Catholic critiques of Soul's scriptura, the idea that you know,

540
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,360
scripture is you know, entirely preminent. You know, it's this

541
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,199
for this literalist interpretation, because you see a sort of

542
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:52,599
echo in that in the you know, constitutional liter literalists.

543
00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:57,400
Excuse me, it's light here, and in both cases, I

544
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,400
maybe I shouldn't say that, but I in both of

545
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,280
those I see a certain degree of cope because again,

546
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,239
as we see both, you know, in the example of

547
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,800
scripture and in law, what matters is not what's written

548
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,760
on the page. What matters is who interprets it right,

549
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,840
And that becomes the Schmidtian question, right, who decides? And

550
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,239
so to me, that's what one of the many things

551
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,960
I find frustrating is about these you know, constitutional conservative

552
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,880
types that we could consider, you know, their their ancestors

553
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,800
to be right, or their predecessors to be successors, excuse me,

554
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:30,519
to be the sort of you know, good classical liberals,

555
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:33,719
the IDW types who still kind of run around. But

556
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:41,559
ultimately there is that law right, that that fundamental misunderstanding

557
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,519
that you know, the law as written actually matters, and

558
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:48,280
I think that there is a theological route to that,

559
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,199
but I'll kick it back to you.

560
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:54,199
Speaker 3: I will add one of one of the hilarious things

561
00:36:54,280 --> 00:37:00,760
about constitutional conservatives in our quotes is often very they

562
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:06,400
like to call themselves a originalist originalists. There's a couple

563
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:12,880
of different schools the constitutional interpretation. There's originalism, purposivism, and textualism. Right,

564
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:18,000
Anton Scalia was a different different Conservative judges of the

565
00:37:18,039 --> 00:37:21,199
Court like, they typically plead to the thing called originalism,

566
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,760
where it's like interpreting the Constitution from the lens of

567
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,079
the founder, or the lens in the perspective or the

568
00:37:29,199 --> 00:37:32,320
historical president of the time that was originally written in

569
00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:37,000
And so these makes the kind of jewel berrys joel

570
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,000
Berry's retort to the distributists even more interesting and kind

571
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:48,440
of incoherent, because if you actually look at the perspectives

572
00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:51,679
of the founders at the time that the Constitution was written,

573
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:56,400
and we interpret the Constitution from that lens, what do

574
00:37:56,559 --> 00:38:00,800
we think the new kind of prevailing sets of precedent

575
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:05,320
would be if we were actually originalist, Well, there would

576
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,719
be no civil rights framework, there would be there would

577
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,519
be none of this kind of this kind of progressive

578
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:17,159
what have you read into the Constitution. And so it's

579
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:19,400
like by the very fact that you can have and

580
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,599
this is kind of Socrates. By Socrates preferred the spoken

581
00:38:24,639 --> 00:38:28,280
word the written word. When things get put into writing,

582
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,400
there is a effectively a barrier between the person writing

583
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,559
and the person reading it. And you can interpret interpret

584
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:41,079
the same sentence and obviously how many different ways. And

585
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:45,800
that's effectively how how the judiciary works. You can read

586
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:50,719
almost anything you want that's politically expedient into the Constitution.

587
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,639
You can try to put bounds on it by these

588
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:58,039
different interpretive schools, but effectively you're still just doing the

589
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:01,679
same thing because any like and this is kind of

590
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:06,599
like the problem with doing quote unquote history even from

591
00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:10,639
an originalist interpretation, you're still a modern person trying to

592
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,599
understand the historical context of the founders, and so therefore

593
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:20,440
you are still there's still multiple points of mediation, like

594
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,440
or points of distance, points of error between you and

595
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,039
the founders. And so this type of this entire type

596
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:30,199
of frame that the Constitution works as long as we

597
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:34,000
as long as we defer back to the Founders is

598
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,719
ridiculous on its face, and it's it's incoherent because it's like, sure,

599
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,440
we can extrapolate the mentalities of the Founders, but there's

600
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,079
many Founders and they came from many different schools of thought.

601
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,400
So it's what motivation behind the Constitution, even from an

602
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,000
originalist perspective, are we pursuing? And so this is the

603
00:39:52,079 --> 00:39:56,800
entire problem with this deification of the Constitution. The Constitution

604
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,320
it has to run on a substrate, and that substrate

605
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,079
is the people itself. And so when you had this

606
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:08,239
idea that like, and I've seen Joe Barry tweet that

607
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,599
I don't remember off off the top of my head,

608
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:15,239
but it was like, it'd be preferential to have like

609
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:22,000
browns compared to the woke, right. I cannot remember the quote,

610
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:25,159
but that was the general sentiment I remember, And it's like, okay,

611
00:40:25,199 --> 00:40:28,320
so then you don't actually respect like the milieu of

612
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,679
the founders because that would have been incomprehensible to the founders.

613
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,039
But even being I believe it was Monroe or Madison,

614
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,519
I don't remember, but I remember like reading this quote

615
00:40:40,679 --> 00:40:43,800
from one of the founders that was effectively like it

616
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,639
is entirely possible that we will have a Mohammedan as

617
00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:50,960
president of the United States, and he expresses of woe

618
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:53,519
the day that occurs. But within this framework, that is

619
00:40:53,639 --> 00:40:58,199
entirely possible. So it was not a foregone conclusion when

620
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,039
the Framers wrote the Institution that this our current situation

621
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,880
was a possibility. In fact, it was thrown out there

622
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:11,440
as a possibility. And so like from that perspective, your

623
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:14,360
view of the Constitution as a success or a failure

624
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,480
just depends on your ability to reckon with the acceptability

625
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:23,440
of being replaced or being subjucated, subjugated by by foreign cultures,

626
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,360
foreign peoples in your own nation, do you have such

627
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,840
little legions to your nation or culture that that is

628
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,119
an acceptable proposition? And for people and for constitual conservatives,

629
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,519
people like Joe Berry, if they are truly originalist or

630
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:40,199
they are truly differing back to the Founders, it must

631
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,960
be an acceptable proposition because that is what the founders

632
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:49,159
viewed as a potential, inevitable and evitability of the document

633
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:50,199
that they created.

634
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 4: Well, and one of the things that I think is interesting,

635
00:41:56,199 --> 00:42:01,880
and this kind of dovetails with your recent kind of

636
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,199
Twitter posting about student debt, but also with a lot

637
00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:10,800
of the data I'm seeing from Mark Mitchell at Resmusen

638
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:16,880
about specifically Generation Z is that the sort of pre

639
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,480
existing political theology is completely and totally dead. It was

640
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:24,840
sort of, you know, gradually losing steam. The state religion

641
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:29,320
was no longer able to produce political miracles anymore. And

642
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,440
so you know, there's several subsequent generations who believed in

643
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:35,159
it less, you know, they didn't hold to the same

644
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:41,360
kind of sacred strictures of you know, impartiality or into

645
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,199
the belief in you know, the rule of law, democratic norms.

646
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,760
Right as someone might say, because to be perfectly honest,

647
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:53,840
I don't actually care about the Constitution one way or

648
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,719
the other. Right, there's stuff and I like their stuff,

649
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,679
and I don't. And when it helps me, right, when

650
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,880
there's court case going and you know, a strict literalist

651
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,000
interpretation of the Constitution gets me what I want, then great.

652
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:12,840
If not, who cares? And what Mitchell has done it

653
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,280
Resmussen is basically go through and ask people in our

654
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,920
rough age demographic number of questions and basically he's found

655
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,119
that it's like almost sixty percent that basically want a

656
00:43:24,159 --> 00:43:27,119
dictator and look like I'm not a populist. You know,

657
00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:30,199
I don't believe that there's some magic significance in a

658
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,360
lot of people wanting something, but I think it is

659
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,519
an interesting sort of trailing indicator of the decline of

660
00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:42,400
liberalism per se, right, the decline of the belief in

661
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,760
these institutions, the belief in you know, these sort of

662
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,639
kind of lies that we've laid out earlier. And you know,

663
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:52,360
among that sixty percent, and who knows, I might be

664
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,119
wrong on that number. I saw it on Twitter several

665
00:43:55,199 --> 00:43:58,719
days ago, so forgive me on that. But I'm not

666
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,840
naive enough to assume that you know, every one of

667
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,840
those people is you know, reading through their you know,

668
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,079
the kind of required reading list of you know, right

669
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:09,440
wing reactionaries. Not at all. But I do think, you know,

670
00:44:09,519 --> 00:44:14,639
you see a sort of a political belief already dead,

671
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,480
kind of dead on its feet, because you know, ultimately

672
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,079
all these things we're talking about, like that that phrasing

673
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,519
of the woke right is basically everyone who isn't a

674
00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:29,920
liberal is woke. But that basically just means everyone, and

675
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,280
so effectively, the only people who still believe in that

676
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:39,559
system like fully and truly are effectively like loser conservatives

677
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,639
if you see what I'm getting at there.

678
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I think in terms of people, I

679
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,639
believe the number was fifty seven percent. I saw that.

680
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:54,719
I saw that as well.

681
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,039
Speaker 4: Okay, three percent off as far as my ability to

682
00:44:58,119 --> 00:44:59,920
remember stats, not too bad.

683
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:06,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was. I was very surprised. Like I'm partial,

684
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:12,239
Like so I'm partial to monarchy as a system. I haven't.

685
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,880
I've thought through a lot of different ideal systems, and

686
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,679
I kind of from my position, let's say, in history,

687
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,519
I have a hard time envisioning the United States transitioning

688
00:45:26,199 --> 00:45:31,800
to anything other than liberalism, just because liberalism in the

689
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,920
United States has worked so long and it has made

690
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,840
us a global superpower. And so just from a pragmatic,

691
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:44,119
like power based perspective, liberalism has put us on top.

692
00:45:44,599 --> 00:45:47,960
But at what costs, And that cost is kind of

693
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:54,119
this this cultural and historical sense of identity, sense of place,

694
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,840
sense of belonging. And but we've gotten to the point

695
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,000
where I believe, quote unquote history is accelerate, is accelerating

696
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,440
there there there are more and more asymmetries popping up,

697
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:09,320
and you kind of on the student loan point, like

698
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,280
one of these main a symmetries is oftentimes I see

699
00:46:13,079 --> 00:46:15,800
and just as a caveat, I don't have any student

700
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,760
loans like this is not from a motivated perspective. In fact,

701
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,760
i'd be just from what I've seen, I should be

702
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:29,599
disincentivized from advocating for student loans dischargeable and bankruptcy. But

703
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:33,039
from like a pragmatic perspective, it does not. There is

704
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:37,760
a fundamental asymmetry introduced when you prevent when you prevent

705
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,360
student loans from being dischargeable bankruptcy, and that is obviously

706
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:47,519
it allows for an unfettered ballooning of university budgets because

707
00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:51,519
if something cannot be discharged, you're even from let's say

708
00:46:51,519 --> 00:46:56,280
the libertarian visa's perspective, when you when you institute or

709
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,000
regulation like that, you're introducing an inherent market. And official

710
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,119
should see and we have seen that. You've seen if

711
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:06,159
you've seen the called the cost of college graphs, like

712
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:08,840
after two thousand and two, after there was a blanket

713
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:14,639
ban on dischargeability of student loans. Since two thousand and two, uh,

714
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:20,559
the cost of college has let's say, rapidly increased compared

715
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:26,679
to all other all other categories of analysis on the CPI,

716
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:33,239
and so the asymmetry here created is an asymmetry in

717
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:40,039
preference to institutions and corporations effectively at the direct expense

718
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:44,599
of the average citizen of the country. And and not

719
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:47,719
to like, uh, not to crap all over the boomers

720
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,800
too much, but the people you hear kind of this

721
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,840
list meme where it's like luxury boomer communism, it's luxury

722
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:02,159
boomer communism the at the spins of the rest of society.

723
00:48:02,679 --> 00:48:06,840
And so there's an acceleration of these asymmetries, and it

724
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,119
almost seems to be I don't know if that's kind of,

725
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:14,480
let's say, an emergent phenomenon, or if the asymmetries are

726
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:18,159
the point, because we know in certain and certain strains

727
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:22,360
of Marxism the entire kind of mo is acceleration of

728
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:29,159
the contradictions, and so a widening, widening asymmetries are effectively

729
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:34,239
an acceleration of the contradiction. So it creates societal unrest.

730
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:39,119
But what's confusing, too is despite all of these increasingly

731
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,599
large asymmetries, you if you look around, you like, our

732
00:48:43,639 --> 00:48:47,440
economy is not that bad. Like people aren't I mean,

733
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:52,159
outside of let's say New York. Instantly, people aren't necessarily

734
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:57,440
starving in the streets, like on mass scale, like poverty,

735
00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:00,880
like poverty now is much lower compared to the nineteen

736
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,039
twenties or the nineteen fifties, And so it's like you

737
00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:07,599
have this degree of let's say, like cognitive dissonance where

738
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:10,599
you look around and things are not that bad, but

739
00:49:10,679 --> 00:49:14,320
you feel this kind of sense of civilizational foreboding. And

740
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,440
I think that that that's a degree that that dissonance

741
00:49:17,519 --> 00:49:26,039
is created because of these increasingly large asymmetries where society

742
00:49:26,159 --> 00:49:30,639
just does not seem to break or move regardless of

743
00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:34,679
how large these asymmetries become. And so I think, I

744
00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:38,400
think that's like creating a sense of unease because there

745
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:45,840
there is clearly like a mechanistic a mechanistic contradiction happening here.

746
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,519
And I think what going going in the future is

747
00:49:51,559 --> 00:49:54,159
going Who has power in the future is just going

748
00:49:54,159 --> 00:49:56,880
to depend on who capitalizes on this dissonance.

749
00:49:59,119 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 4: Well, and I find myself in somewhat of a similar

750
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,760
situation with housing prices, right Like I own a house

751
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,519
relatively recently. It would be kind of convenient for me

752
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:16,400
if that asset just kept inflating forever. But something needs

753
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,559
to happen there, and going back to you know, Mitchell's data,

754
00:50:21,639 --> 00:50:23,360
this has been one of the really interesting things. Like,

755
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,199
I'm not a huge voter, not a huge democracy guy

756
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,760
per se, but you do have this sort of critical

757
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,159
mass of primarily young white men who swung hard for

758
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:37,840
Trump and have very quickly abandoned him in a relatively

759
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,239
short amount of time. And at least according to Mitchell

760
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:44,800
right that that was effectively a protest vote. Right, of

761
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,840
this is not working for us. You can look at

762
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,159
educational data, you can look at any sort of other

763
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,920
method of you know, kind of tracking achievement, and the

764
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,559
young people wouldever constitute that to be are not doing

765
00:50:59,719 --> 00:50:59,960
very well.

766
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: Well.

767
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 4: If you dig into the you know, the economic stats,

768
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:08,000
you see a very similar thing. And particularly for the GOP,

769
00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:09,920
they're in kind of a tough spot because you know,

770
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,920
their largest voting block is Gen X, and after that

771
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:19,280
the Boomers, who are proportionately quite wealthy. But the day

772
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,440
of the pillow is nigh, right, Boomers are about to

773
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:23,960
hit fifty percent mortality, and of course we understand that

774
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,360
that moves much much much more quickly once you get

775
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,480
past the fifty percent mark. And so at the same

776
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:33,760
time we were both seeing a sort of ideological shift,

777
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,159
you know, where the boomers who have the kind of

778
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,400
current or not the current, but the kind of dying

779
00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:43,840
version of the American Republic, you know, like the FDR

780
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,679
regime and then the kind of you know Patch put

781
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,599
in in sixty four. They believe that more than almost

782
00:51:50,679 --> 00:51:54,480
anyone else, their children slightly less, their grandchildren even less.

783
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,159
You see this on both the left and the right.

784
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,440
You know, more and more people on the left are

785
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,639
describing themselves as socialists. You know, they're rejecting albeit not

786
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,000
at a fundamental level, right, but they are rejecting the

787
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:08,400
kind of stricters of liberalism. So you have this both

788
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,440
this kind of incredible economic and achievement on the ease

789
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,840
that you were talking about, mixed with a sort of

790
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,519
political shift. I think it's a very interesting and sort

791
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:20,880
of exciting time to be in the discourse as it's described.

792
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: Uh.

793
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 4: Well, one of the other things I think that's interesting,

794
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,960
and this is masic. This is my personal thoughts on

795
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:34,320
the kind of student loans, which is like a very

796
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:40,920
basic patronage point, which is the education system universities. The

797
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,960
people who make their money from that are not my friends.

798
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,400
They don't believe anything in common with me, and I

799
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,280
did not particularly enjoy my time there for you know,

800
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,920
political reasons as well as just you know, social ones.

801
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:59,760
But why would you go to the mat right, alienate

802
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:03,280
potential allies for the sake of a group of people

803
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,840
that hate you? University professors, we understand their politics broadly speaking,

804
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:11,960
and to me, setting aside any kind of principle of argument,

805
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:17,480
just on a pure patronage level analysis, there's a very

806
00:53:17,519 --> 00:53:21,400
clear answer, which is take resources from your enemies to

807
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,800
buy yourself new friends.

808
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: Right.

809
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,599
Speaker 4: Our opponents understand this quite well. And you know, I

810
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:28,719
think that that sort of kind of you know, what

811
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,559
Francis would have called, like the beautiful loser mentality, you know,

812
00:53:32,599 --> 00:53:34,880
the idea that you know, I will stick to the

813
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,440
you know, the rules as written, the kind of you know,

814
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:41,280
originalist constitution or you know, the kind of you know,

815
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:46,679
upstanding correct way of doing politics. I mean, I'm not

816
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:48,480
the biggest fan of Trump, but I do think that

817
00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:52,280
the the people who cried about him, you know, shattering

818
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,920
democratic norms again in scare quotes, they weren't entirely wrong,

819
00:53:57,039 --> 00:53:59,159
and it was less that he shattered them and more

820
00:53:59,199 --> 00:54:03,440
realized that had become they had sort of ossified and

821
00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:08,679
become guardrails, right, and within that box you would never win.

822
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,440
Albeit you know, he is far from you know, the

823
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,960
sort of genuine reformer, you know, restructuring needed. But I

824
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:21,079
think that that's another kind of interesting, interesting symptom I

825
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:23,639
guess of that. So sorry, I threw a bunch at you. Heygil,

826
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:24,920
I'll give you a chance to respond.

827
00:54:27,039 --> 00:54:30,679
Speaker 3: And I think just in terms of the protecting institutions,

828
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,320
I think that's just a simple consequence of like, well,

829
00:54:36,599 --> 00:54:43,840
there's there's this weird kind of contradiction amongst the boomers. Uh,

830
00:54:44,159 --> 00:54:48,599
they have this they have this almost institutional fetishism, fetishism

831
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:55,559
while simultaneously being kind of the fledgling generation that attempted

832
00:54:55,599 --> 00:55:00,320
to usurp the institutions. The entire kind of woods Stock

833
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:08,079
generation was, let's just say was was anti institution in

834
00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:11,000
the sense that they thought that there is an old

835
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:14,159
way of doing things that they they should personally take

836
00:55:14,199 --> 00:55:19,480
the mantle and overturn. They weren't necessarily anti institution, and

837
00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:22,920
that they wanted to abolish the institutions, but they wanted

838
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,599
they wanted to take them, they wanted to seize them.

839
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,159
And I think if we contrast this two let's just say,

840
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:35,800
the conservative way of approaching that tends to be parallelism

841
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,159
instead of instead of let's say, sieging the institutions, like

842
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:45,400
doing what is necessary at whatever costs to get those

843
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:51,480
institutions back, the conservatives would rather see them even if

844
00:55:51,519 --> 00:55:53,880
there is still a degree of deference for them, and

845
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:58,119
create parallel ones. And these parallel ones, I mean you

846
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:01,639
so to kind of site redeemed Zuomer. I don't know

847
00:56:01,639 --> 00:56:05,039
if you're familiar with him. He's like, he's a Presbyterian,

848
00:56:05,079 --> 00:56:10,400
the PCUSA church, and he specifically chose to to join

849
00:56:10,519 --> 00:56:15,559
the more let's say, the original, the original branch the

850
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:19,880
Presterian Church, despite the fact that they allow female priests

851
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,559
or whatever pastors, and despite the fact that they endorse

852
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:30,760
in certain in certain churches LGBTQ stuff. His idea was

853
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,559
that consistently within the history of prostism, it has been

854
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:40,800
Protestants leaving the established institutions and creating their own institutions

855
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,000
when the other institutions become more liberal. So the reason

856
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,639
why I joined the pc USA church because I'm trying

857
00:56:46,639 --> 00:56:50,400
to retake the institution from the inside. He's like a

858
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:55,199
to for lack of a better term or phrase, like

859
00:56:55,360 --> 00:57:02,119
a one man kind of in reconquiste conserve entist if

860
00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:06,519
you will. Yeah, And I like the idea behind that,

861
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,280
But the problem is it's just, for some reason, the

862
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:17,440
position of the conservative American is just not geared towards

863
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:22,239
that idea of retaking institutions. It's always parallelism. Let's create

864
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:26,320
our parallel institutions. The problem is that you're giving You're

865
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:31,719
just freely giving the reins uninhibited to the progressive cause

866
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,960
of all these historical institutions. You're just giving them these

867
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,920
culture making apparatuses and just hoping and hoping and praying

868
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,599
that your parallel institution ends up being successful and ends

869
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:47,880
up having similar cultural weight, which it almost never does.

870
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,559
So and I tried to interrogate this where it's like,

871
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:55,480
why is this kind of the base impulse of the

872
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,320
American right? Why is parallelism the base impulse? I don't

873
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,079
understand why we were have been perpetually in this frame

874
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:06,599
of parallelism as opposed to the kind of left wing

875
00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:08,639
frame where it's like, if you have a problem with

876
00:58:08,679 --> 00:58:13,800
the institutions, let's capture them. And I'm hopeful that with

877
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,920
gen Z, like the seven percent ras musem poll. I'm

878
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:20,800
hopeful that that's changing and we're getting a bit more

879
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:26,679
of an energetic propulsion on the right that that is

880
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,079
enough to recapture some of the institutions that's opposed to

881
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:34,480
just default to this parallelism. But I don't really see

882
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,159
a lot of historical precedent for the right recapturing an

883
00:58:39,199 --> 00:58:44,559
integral institution once it has been culturally infiltrated. There's there's

884
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:47,840
flight oscillations like we'll get it back for a little bit,

885
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,880
or will exert some influence, but like it just ultimately

886
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,960
reverts that base state of kind of progressivism. And so

887
00:58:57,079 --> 00:58:59,360
I don't know, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on

888
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:02,920
how we can kind of create that propulsion for recapture

889
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,280
as compared to parallelism.

890
00:59:06,719 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 4: Yes, there's several things there. This is a point from

891
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:16,119
land I think it's the chapter Cracker Factory in Dark Enlightenment,

892
00:59:16,519 --> 00:59:19,039
which is it's to be honest, it's hilarious as well

893
00:59:19,039 --> 00:59:23,000
as insightful. But his point is effectively that the Anglo

894
00:59:23,159 --> 00:59:27,280
mode of conflict resolution is effectively you fight it out

895
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,679
and then the loser leaves to start their own thing.

896
00:59:31,079 --> 00:59:33,400
You could look at the English Civil War, right the

897
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,039
Formation of America all the way down to modern day

898
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:39,719
white flight. The idea is, you know, okay, well I

899
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,199
can't have my culture here, so I'll go make my own.

900
00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:47,000
And I think a large part of that is you

901
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,400
could look at it's kind of like ebagenetic almost. But

902
00:59:50,519 --> 00:59:59,199
also I think that the problem for conservatives with that

903
00:59:59,239 --> 01:00:08,599
sort of entry is that the force which effectively the

904
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:12,519
progressives are aligned with entropy, and so you know, there's

905
01:00:12,519 --> 01:00:15,000
sort of a certain gravity to what they do. You know,

906
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,480
it is much more difficult to you know, deprogressive ize

907
01:00:18,559 --> 01:00:21,039
something than it is to you know, to make it

908
01:00:21,159 --> 01:00:26,039
more kind of leftist. And so to me, I guess

909
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:32,079
I see, you know, parallelism as a entirely rational short

910
01:00:32,119 --> 01:00:37,880
to medium term strategy because of the sort of power

911
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,880
imbalance there that you know, if this is sort of

912
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,920
a fifty to fifty struggle, then fair enough. But I

913
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:48,679
don't necessarily see how with one guy and I made

914
01:00:48,719 --> 01:00:51,800
this point to redeemed Sumer and I am now blocked

915
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,920
on the interne locked on Twitter.

916
01:00:54,639 --> 01:00:55,239
Speaker 1: Did he really?

917
01:00:56,039 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 4: It was years It was years ago. I got upset

918
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,880
about it. But uh, you know, point is, so I

919
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,400
think that you were entirely correct, and that attitude of

920
01:01:05,719 --> 01:01:10,039
eternal retreat, of you know, splintering forever, you know, finding

921
01:01:10,119 --> 01:01:11,760
the three guys who agree with you and starting your

922
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,559
own thing is incorrect. But to me, you know, when

923
01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:17,599
I look at you know, the boards my friends from

924
01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:20,320
South Africa, you know, I think of an article written

925
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,920
by I think it's Ernst Roots or Ernst ven Zeel,

926
01:01:23,079 --> 01:01:26,239
one of the Ernsts you know, wrote this article where

927
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,239
he compared it to you know, digging a trench. And

928
01:01:29,239 --> 01:01:31,920
this was an article that was very impactful on me

929
01:01:32,039 --> 01:01:34,559
shortly before I entered, you know, the kind of internet world,

930
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,880
you know, living after school, and you know, one of

931
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,880
many kind of you know, godless progressive American urban centers.

932
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:48,079
And his point was there is a time for retreat tactically,

933
01:01:48,599 --> 01:01:53,599
but you do not do that, to retreat forever. You retreat,

934
01:01:53,639 --> 01:01:57,079
to dig a trench, to make something defensible, to make

935
01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:00,719
something you can fight for. And to me, you know,

936
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:04,360
the answer is neither, you know, progressivism or entryism as

937
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,039
one universal strategy. This gets back to our point about

938
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:10,599
like the Constitution or any particular law. It's like, well,

939
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,360
there is a time for each And in my mind

940
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,480
I completely understand, you know, the rationale that says, look like,

941
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:23,800
you know, I am barred from you know, certain jobs,

942
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,000
I'm barred from a certain place. I must you know,

943
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,199
support my family. So there's an element of retreat to that, right,

944
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,920
find something. But once you were there, right, that institution,

945
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:35,480
that thing that you were building, that thing that you

946
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:39,800
were making, must be defended. And you know, I see

947
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,639
this in my own religious community. I see it in

948
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,119
you know, in others, and so to me, I guess

949
01:02:44,239 --> 01:02:48,880
I may disagree with you on parallelism because I think

950
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,760
that it is entirely rational in the short to mid term.

951
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:56,079
It's not an eternal strategy, but I mean, hell, you

952
01:02:56,119 --> 01:02:58,960
can even look at uh, you know, arn't. Younger makes

953
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,480
a very similar point in the Forest Passage and umswell

954
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:05,000
both right that you know, when faced with kind of

955
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:08,800
a you know, a toutalitarian system or a totalizing system,

956
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,880
is one might more accurately say that a direct you know,

957
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,880
head on, full frontal assault, you'll be squished like a buck.

958
01:03:17,679 --> 01:03:20,840
But I'll give it back to you. I guess that's

959
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,440
kind of my thoughts on it, at least initially.

960
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 3: But then on the other point, if you look at

961
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:34,159
like let's say, like Ernst Youngers, let's say contrarianism to

962
01:03:34,199 --> 01:03:40,960
the Nazi regime. He he was still involved in the

963
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,519
institution and he and he was contrariant to it, or

964
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:49,280
he was let's say, opposed to it as it was

965
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:53,639
comporting itself, and that ended up getting his son killed.

966
01:03:54,239 --> 01:03:58,199
And so kind of like there's still like I don't

967
01:03:58,199 --> 01:04:01,480
think we can compartmental life. It's like there's no such

968
01:04:01,519 --> 01:04:06,960
thing I think as discrete kind of parallelism, and that's attempted,

969
01:04:07,159 --> 01:04:11,800
but you're still under the shadow of these institutions, like

970
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:15,360
and that was a very real consequence in Art's Younger's life,

971
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,880
like his his kind of antagonism to the Nazi regime

972
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,039
got his son killed in Italy, and so and that's

973
01:04:22,119 --> 01:04:26,000
kind of I don't necessarily disagree with you that it

974
01:04:26,239 --> 01:04:29,960
may be a good tactical decision in the short term,

975
01:04:30,039 --> 01:04:34,639
but ultimately it has to be a tactical decision positioning

976
01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:39,280
yourself to ultimately confront the main institutions itself. And it

977
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,480
seems like that just that seems to not be the case,

978
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:48,039
Like like the just from deferring back to redeemed Zumer situation,

979
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:53,920
the I believe it's p USA as opposed to pc USA.

980
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,360
I can't remember the other Presbyterian branch, but they are

981
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,639
not necessarily directly antagonistic or trying to poach members of

982
01:05:01,719 --> 01:05:05,079
pc USA. They're kind of they're kind of in this

983
01:05:05,199 --> 01:05:07,320
mode of I just want to be left alone, just

984
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,920
do not subvert this new institution I've created, And that's

985
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,440
kind of been the conservative, like like the conservative conservative

986
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:17,320
kind of mentality, I just want to be left alone,

987
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,719
and the progressive mentalities I want to consume all things,

988
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,559
like I want everything to be under my thumb. And

989
01:05:24,599 --> 01:05:26,920
so it's kind of when you have that, when you

990
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:32,639
have those two kind of like fundamentally opposite dispositions, one

991
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:35,960
is going to prevail. And like I said, I think

992
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:41,199
parallelism is a completely rational, pragmatic decision. The problem is,

993
01:05:41,239 --> 01:05:43,960
I do not think it is sustainable when you when

994
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:50,880
your enemy is held bent on subsubing every single institution

995
01:05:51,519 --> 01:05:56,440
created in parallel or not. And Eric Hoffer has this

996
01:05:56,519 --> 01:06:01,000
really good quote where he said, the kind of benefit

997
01:06:01,079 --> 01:06:05,199
of the leftist, so the progressive, is that people who

998
01:06:05,559 --> 01:06:09,800
lack things, or who think they lack things, are willing

999
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,760
to fight and die for that which they do not have,

1000
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,199
but people who have are not willing to fight and

1001
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:19,360
die for that which they already possess. And so the

1002
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:24,079
entire progressive mode of operation, because it's just like devouring,

1003
01:06:24,599 --> 01:06:29,199
it's this desire to devour, a desire to pull society,

1004
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:33,280
and this idolized direction that has not yet been obtained.

1005
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,960
They can frame and they can exist in this mentality

1006
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,679
where no matter how much they achieve or how many

1007
01:06:40,679 --> 01:06:43,800
institutions they capture, it's still not enough. They do not

1008
01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:47,559
have that kind of critical threshold that they desire to

1009
01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:52,599
completely terrorform society. And so whereas conservatives there are let's say,

1010
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,719
more willing to be content, more willing to be contented

1011
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,480
with what they have or what they can't create, and

1012
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:02,599
so there isn't this kind of drive that is extant

1013
01:07:02,719 --> 01:07:08,320
among the progressives to capture that which they think they

1014
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,119
do not have, because they think what they have is sufficient.

1015
01:07:12,039 --> 01:07:14,119
And so that's kind of my my view. And like

1016
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:19,280
the critical flaw of like discrete parallelism as a as

1017
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:24,440
a governing strategy is it's doomed to fail just just

1018
01:07:24,519 --> 01:07:28,000
by virtue of who the enemy is in position to

1019
01:07:28,119 --> 01:07:32,639
who we are, or like what motivates us but obviously,

1020
01:07:32,679 --> 01:07:37,119
like you said, like the progressive position is inclined toward entropy,

1021
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,320
order takes it like order takes a lot more energy

1022
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:46,519
injected into the system to actually like for thisstem to

1023
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:51,679
actually order itself. If the progressive kind of the progressive

1024
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:57,119
directionality is always in tropic, there's not. It's kind of effortless.

1025
01:07:57,119 --> 01:08:01,960
It's an effortless, effortless march, whereas going against that requires

1026
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,920
an asymmetric amount of energy to be expended, which makes

1027
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:11,559
the parallels I'm totally understandable on an individual act or perspective,

1028
01:08:12,119 --> 01:08:15,000
but as like, if we kind of scale out and

1029
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:19,119
look at the course of history, it's going to be

1030
01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:22,079
a doomed a doomed strategy. I fear.

1031
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 4: It's a bug man Hagel. We're a little bit over time.

1032
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,039
It's been a fascinating discussion. Where can people find you?

1033
01:08:30,079 --> 01:08:31,000
They want more of your work?

1034
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:35,079
Speaker 3: I'm just on Twitter now. I started a podcast like

1035
01:08:35,119 --> 01:08:40,600
two years ago, but I started getting nervous with being

1036
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,039
let's say, getting exposed and docs. I kind of like

1037
01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:48,079
to keep my online presence and my offline presence discreete

1038
01:08:48,159 --> 01:08:51,600
but so mainly Twitter, my handle is fed posting my

1039
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,880
use name is bug Man Hegel. You can just find

1040
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:54,600
me there.

1041
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,319
Speaker 4: Well, sure thing. And also there's a few other interviews

1042
01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:02,239
out there pretty good with you on them. Maybe link

1043
01:09:02,279 --> 01:09:04,039
one or two of those in the description. As far

1044
01:09:04,039 --> 01:09:07,720
as my stuff, Jay Burdens Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, this

1045
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:09,920
is what I do full time. If you want to

1046
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:11,560
support me, you can throw me a few bucks a

1047
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,920
month on Patreon, Substack or gum Road. You hit the

1048
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,720
episodes early in ad free. I know they're annoying, the ads,

1049
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,199
but I got a mortgage, guys, what can I say? Also,

1050
01:09:22,239 --> 01:09:24,720
you can check out our sponsor, Axious Remote Fitness Coaching.

1051
01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:28,000
JD's a good business man, he's a good friend. You

1052
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,319
should support him. And look, I've gone to enough of

1053
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:33,800
these events I met you guys. Some of you could

1054
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,439
use some personal training, so check out JD's work for that. Again,

1055
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,159
buck Man Hegel, it was great speaking to you.

1056
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

1057
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 4: Never keep your het up.

1058
01:09:42,960 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: Good night. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a

1059
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:19,439
little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point

1060
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:21,920
something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and

1061
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,319
it's great. You love the host.

1062
01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:24,520
Speaker 3: You seek it out and download it.

1063
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,239
Speaker 4: You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even

1064
01:10:27,279 --> 01:10:28,560
going to the bathroom.

1065
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a

1066
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:32,720
podcast ad.

1067
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 2: Did I get your attention?

1068
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 4: You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising

1069
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:42,119
from libsynads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements,

1070
01:10:42,359 --> 01:10:44,720
or run a pre produced ad like this one across

1071
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,000
thousands of shows. To reach your target audience and their

1072
01:10:47,039 --> 01:10:50,640
favorite podcasts with libsynads, go to libsynads dot com.

1073
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 1: That's l I B s y n ads dot com

1074
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:53,960
Today