Speaker 1: Thad Phillips was a regular kid in the nineties. He
Speaker 1: loves sports and collecting baseball cards, But little did he
Speaker 1: know one evening would change his world forever. Today's story
Speaker 1: is the story of Fad Phillips, and it is a
Speaker 1: survival story, a story about enduring and fighting for one's life.
Speaker 1: But it's not only that. It's also a story about
Speaker 1: just how dark humanity really can get.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcasting. The following podcasts
Speaker 2: and material intended for a.
Speaker 1: Mature audience listener discretion. He's advised, Oh, it's cold. It's cold,
Speaker 1: like cold, cold, like colder than it usually is.
Speaker 2: For some reason, I see cold.
Speaker 1: It is like it's cold on my hands. Or maybe
Speaker 1: I'm just oh, maybe I'm just warmer than normal because
Speaker 1: summer is actually finally fucking here. I think that's what
Speaker 1: it is. Never mind, I solve the problem.
Speaker 2: Yay, we have like twenty degree weather.
Speaker 1: It's a back so nice, it's finally here. I can't
Speaker 1: get enough of it, which which we just decided today
Speaker 1: that we're finally going to go mountain biking because snow
Speaker 1: is actually gone. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, I was driving around today looking for locations for
Speaker 2: photo shoots, and I was like, why did I not, Like,
Speaker 2: did I not plan to go paddleboarding for like an
Speaker 2: hour somewhere? Wrong?
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 2: You, I don't know the water would be cold as shit?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: But so like you would hope that you wouldn't fall in,
Speaker 2: I guess would you risk that?
Speaker 1: Isn't that usually the hope when you go paddle boarding
Speaker 1: that you don't fall in?
Speaker 2: Well, unless you're like wearing your bathing suit, you're ready to.
Speaker 1: Go, but then that's just swimming. Yeah, because the point
Speaker 1: of paddle boarding is to be on the board, is
Speaker 1: it not?
Speaker 2: It is, So I'm debating going paddle boarding as well.
Speaker 2: But it's like it's a little bit scarier than mountain biking,
Speaker 2: as if you fall and you're gonna.
Speaker 1: Fuck touche toochee. But the point is we're actually gonna
Speaker 1: be getting to enjoy summer soon, warm outdoor activities, not
Speaker 1: just cooped up in a tiny home surrounded by snow
Speaker 1: and darkness. Yeah, so that's always a bonus.
Speaker 2: It feels like we're just like breathing in life again.
Speaker 1: Hey, oh definitely, And speaking of breathing in, you breathed
Speaker 1: in many donuts on the weekend.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone knows what like mini donuts
Speaker 1: specifically are from, like a fair, Yeah, like the tiny ones,
Speaker 1: like the cinnamon sugar on it that.
Speaker 2: Are basically just like deep right to glorious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's basically crack in the shape of a donut. Yeah, delicious.
Speaker 1: So we just had a local little comic con here
Speaker 1: this past weekend called Northern Fan Con. I go every year,
Speaker 1: and you stop buying, and you're just like, oh, you
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a good time. You see
Speaker 1: me while I'm there, And of course there was a
Speaker 1: food truck with mini donuts and you indulged.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I go. I go every year too, I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure. I don't know if I've missed a year.
Speaker 2: Have I missed a year?
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Possibly, But you only go because
Speaker 1: you support me. Yeah, I'm a nerd dressing up in
Speaker 1: costumes and selling stuff and doing the whole nine thing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, And like, they don't always have many donuts,
Speaker 2: so that was a perk, but they usually have delicious lemonade,
Speaker 2: so I yeah, there are some perks for me.
Speaker 1: Well, and you did bring me mini donuts too. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say you're the only one. You brought me many donuts,
Speaker 1: so I was really happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't need those mini donuts, but they hit good.
Speaker 1: They did. Before we get into the show today, before
Speaker 1: we talk a bit about Fad Phillips, we of course
Speaker 1: got a Thike Patriot thank our patrons, Yes we do.
Speaker 1: So we had a few patrons sign up this week
Speaker 1: over on Patreon. We had Dan Kane, Roger Reid and
Speaker 1: read Autumn join us over on Patreon. Thank you yo,
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. And they're actually getting awesome. They're getting
Speaker 1: an extra Patreon episode. They are because we kind of
Speaker 1: dropped the ball and a little delayed on the episode
Speaker 1: from the previous month. Yes, so we're making it up
Speaker 1: to them. They're getting an extra exclusive episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, can we have something else to talk
Speaker 2: about here? And this is kind of exciting. So we
Speaker 2: did a second launch of our artisan mugs, we did, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so we launched them I don't even know, Friday.
Speaker 1: Friday at eight a m. Pacific Standard time.
Speaker 2: Okay, and it was not a complete shit show this time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't.
Speaker 2: And there's still some left there.
Speaker 1: Is, so if you guys want them, link is going
Speaker 1: to be in the description of this podcast. We'll find
Speaker 1: out how long they last. But there are a few
Speaker 1: left over on our Etsy shop.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So last time we broke Etsy and they like banned
Speaker 1: our shop, we had to go ask for it back
Speaker 1: because they were selling so quick. But this time, the
Speaker 1: first day went half of them sold and we still
Speaker 1: got a few left. So go check it out if
Speaker 1: you want them. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So they're a little bit bigger than last time. They're
Speaker 2: a black pottery mug. They have like glazed drips on them,
Speaker 2: and they say stay wicked.
Speaker 1: They're pretty cool and like most of the cup is
Speaker 1: still like the raw finish finish on it, which I
Speaker 1: know is not for everybody. We're probably gonna do some
Speaker 1: different ones down the road, but for now it's got
Speaker 1: that like raw look to it and it says stay wicked.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's a fantastic way to have your coffee in
Speaker 1: the morning.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I think that's enough self promotion aside.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the story. You ready for it, Let's
Speaker 1: do it? Okay, have you heard of bad Phillips?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I am like I feel like I'm the worst true
Speaker 2: crime fan ever now because half the shit I just
Speaker 2: am like, no, I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean there is a lot out there, especially
Speaker 1: when people like really talk about certain stories. It's everyone
Speaker 1: has one that tends to sit with them. So it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this one, and then someone else be like, oh that one,
Speaker 1: and then someone else, Oh, well this one. So the
Speaker 1: list tends to go on and on and on.
Speaker 2: There's no shortage of true crime cases. Let's just say that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I don't think there ever is going to
Speaker 1: be either, which is very unfortunate.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it gives us a job or a
Speaker 2: hobby or something or whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 2: of sorts, but it also would the preference would be
Speaker 2: to not have.
Speaker 1: These, Yeah, to eliminate the crime in the world, the negativity,
Speaker 1: the terrible shit that happens to people. Yeah, okay, well
Speaker 1: let's talk about this terrible shit that absolutely happened to Fad. Okay.
Speaker 1: So it starts on July twenty ninth, in nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: and young thirteen year old boy by the name of
Speaker 1: Thad Phillips. He was asleep on his couch in a
Speaker 1: new home in Bearboo, Wisconsin. Him and his family had
Speaker 1: just moved into the neighborhood and they'd only been there
Speaker 1: at the new home for a few weeks. It was
Speaker 1: a new sort of life for the family. They didn't
Speaker 1: really know any of the neighbors in the block or anything,
Speaker 1: you know. They were just kind of like the new people, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: so they're settling in and that's just your normal young kid.
Speaker 1: He was often outside playing sports, for example, with his friends,
Speaker 1: enjoying the sunshine. He loved playing baseball, He loved collecting
Speaker 1: baseball cards, football cards, standard nineties kit yep. And on
Speaker 1: this particular night, he had fallen asleep on the couch.
Speaker 1: He was up watching TV and he ended up drifting off,
Speaker 1: so his sleep was eventually interrupted. He felt himself being
Speaker 1: lifted off the couch and carried away. Now that had
Speaker 1: recalled that his parents had taken him to bed when
Speaker 1: he had passed out on the couch multiple times before.
Speaker 1: So as he's being carried away, he expected being laid
Speaker 1: into his bed next moment, But that's not quite what happened.
Speaker 1: He was still half asleep, but that knew something was
Speaker 1: kind of wrong. It wasn't his parents that was carrying
Speaker 1: him off to his bed. A few moments later, he
Speaker 1: kind of began to come out of his days when
Speaker 1: he was realizing this wasn't quite right. He was looking
Speaker 1: up at the stars in the sky above him at night. Jeez,
Speaker 1: he was being carried away outside his house in someone
Speaker 1: else's arms. No, that someone was another boy older than that,
Speaker 1: but still definitely not an adult. He was about the
Speaker 1: same age as his older brother, and that assumed that
Speaker 1: it must be maybe one of his friends or something.
Speaker 1: And this put the boy at about the age of
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. The boy set Thad down on the cold,
Speaker 1: damp ground and was calm and friendly when he asked
Speaker 1: Thatad to run with them. It was an odd request.
Speaker 1: It was the middle of the night and this boy
Speaker 1: just carried him out of his house. But Thatad was
Speaker 1: still dazed, quite out of it. He basically just woke up. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he assumed, Okay, this guy's being nice. It seems
Speaker 1: like he's acting normal, like okay, sure, so he just
Speaker 1: trusted him and just complied, and without hesitation, just began
Speaker 1: running down the road.
Speaker 2: That's so innocent, Hey, yeah it is.
Speaker 1: Oh, without a question, he trusted him.
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. Well, because he's like, at that age,
Speaker 2: you probably have no reason not to trust someone.
Speaker 1: I guess definitely.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oh So the two made their way off into the night,
Speaker 1: and eventually they arrived at an old rundown house that
Speaker 1: was about a mile away from where that had lived.
Speaker 1: They stepped inside and the entire place was an absolute mess.
Speaker 1: There was garbage strewn about the place and a sharp
Speaker 1: stench of mold and rotting food lingered in the air.
Speaker 1: The strange boy then turned to that and officially made
Speaker 1: his introduction. He said that his name was Joe, and
Speaker 1: he said he's having a party in which some people
Speaker 1: will be coming by pretty quick. And he started listing
Speaker 1: off a few names of people who are going to
Speaker 1: be coming to said party, and to that surprise, he
Speaker 1: actually recognized some of the names that he mentioned, some
Speaker 1: people that he now goes to school with.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, so.
Speaker 1: It didn't seem like, okay, it's not so crazy to
Speaker 1: think that this might happen. It's weird. He still kind
Speaker 1: of dazed. He's a young kid. I mean, we're still
Speaker 1: all learning the world at that point, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and then there's some familiality with recognizing of.
Speaker 1: The names exactly, so that kind of grounds and makes
Speaker 1: them think, okay, so that this isn't so weird because
Speaker 1: I should know these people. It's they're going to be
Speaker 1: here too, so they think they must think it's normal,
Speaker 1: so I should think it's normal. Yeah, which I mean
Speaker 1: clearly that's not going to be the case.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So anyways, after listing some names, Joe said that while
Speaker 1: they wait for everyone to show up for the said party,
Speaker 1: he had some cool model cars upstairs in his room
Speaker 1: that he wanted to show that and now that specifically
Speaker 1: stated later on he didn't know why he did, but he,
Speaker 1: without hesitation, again continued to follow the boys lead. He
Speaker 1: continued to trust him. He followed him up the stairs
Speaker 1: the dirty, run down house in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: He followed him into a room. And this is where
Speaker 1: things would take their very dark turn.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, what happened?
Speaker 1: Well, what do you think happens?
Speaker 2: So this is the kid's house, like where he lives,
Speaker 2: like his home.
Speaker 1: I never did find clarification exactly on that. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: it's not.
Speaker 2: Okay or like the innocent thirteen year old bad thinks
Speaker 2: that it is.
Speaker 1: Yes, I never did find clarification on the actual address
Speaker 1: of this quote. Joe. I'm assuming this is not his place,
Speaker 1: because later on he does have a mom and all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, So I'm assuming it's not okay,
Speaker 1: But I don't know whose house this really is.
Speaker 2: I don't really even know what to think yet. This
Speaker 2: is very fucked up because I'm literally my heart is
Speaker 2: hurting because this thirteen year old boy is so pure
Speaker 2: and innocent and just following everything, which this is just
Speaker 2: seems there's just so many red flags that I.
Speaker 1: Am but it's rat it's red flags for us as adults. Yes,
Speaker 1: for a thirteen year old kid who's just trusting. It's
Speaker 1: a little different.
Speaker 2: But then still like at some point, like at that age,
Speaker 2: like you're still taught that like strangers are bad, but
Speaker 2: this this guy is still like very young and almost
Speaker 2: kind of like only a few years older than him. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh gosh, I mean shit, it's about to go down. Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, what's in the sricen room?
Speaker 1: Well, nothing particularly in this room, Like it's it's just
Speaker 1: a room. There's a bed in the room. It's a bedroom, right,
Speaker 1: It's a dirty house. There's garbage and it stinks. That
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So there's nothing overtly dangerous in the room,
Speaker 1: per se. Okay, However, when they enter the room, Joe's
Speaker 1: demeanor instantly flipped like a light switch.
Speaker 2: Yikes.
Speaker 1: He threw Fat down on the bed inside the room,
Speaker 1: and he quickly sat next to him grabbed for one
Speaker 1: of his legs. Thad, now being thrown to a bed,
Speaker 1: was scared right well. Yeah, so he began to try
Speaker 1: and fight back. But before he even had a chance
Speaker 1: to defend himself, this older boy, Joe, who might I say,
Speaker 1: is like twice his size, managed to get a hold
Speaker 1: of his right foot, and with his foot in both
Speaker 1: of his hands, he began to torque and twist sidewise
Speaker 1: until all of a sudden, a loud snap was heard
Speaker 1: and Thad felt the bone in his ankle give away
Speaker 1: under the pressure.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, you're kidding. Nope, seriously, Yes, just like went
Speaker 2: from like just a super nice guy to an instant
Speaker 2: he's just like breaking his foot, yes, ankle or whatever? Yes,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Okay, So after that, Joe took a step back, placed
Speaker 1: his hands over his face and began kind of muttering
Speaker 1: to himself, and Thad was in shock, not yet quite
Speaker 1: feeling the full force of the the pain in his
Speaker 1: now broken ankle, but he clearly knew the danger that
Speaker 1: he was in now, so he knew he had.
Speaker 2: To run well, and how do you even get out?
Speaker 2: Like that's an injury, Like, how do you even escape now?
Speaker 1: Exactly? I mean, he got up and he tried his
Speaker 1: best he could to get out of the room, down
Speaker 1: the stairs, through the kitchen towards the front door, but
Speaker 1: like you said, he can't really his best pretty much
Speaker 1: now is a quick hobble, which means it's really easy
Speaker 1: for Joe to catch up to him. Awesome, which is
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. So by the time he reached the
Speaker 1: kitchen almost at the front door, Joe came up behind
Speaker 1: him and grabbed him and tackled him to the floor.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, this boy was like easily twice his size,
Speaker 1: so he overpowered him without a problem.
Speaker 2: Well, I think broken ankle or not, he'd still be
Speaker 2: able to probably catch him, like exactly, fuck is this guy?
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get there. So he took him down and
Speaker 1: then he dragged him from the kitchen into the living
Speaker 1: room and then he threw him on the couch. Joe
Speaker 1: then took Thad's right leg and lifted it up towards
Speaker 1: Dad's head, extended it far beyond its normal range of motion,
Speaker 1: and he pressed down with his full body weight on
Speaker 1: the leg and then gave it a twist and hurt
Speaker 1: another snap.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I am, I cannot like, we're how
Speaker 2: far in? I'm not going to be mute too with
Speaker 2: this episode. This is horrifine.
Speaker 1: It's not a fun one. It's graphic.
Speaker 2: I'm this is probably one you needed to have filmed
Speaker 2: because I am. I can't do this. I can't even listen.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just want to take my headphones.
Speaker 1: You've been squirming in your seat a lot. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: to be fair, I was doing the very same thing
Speaker 1: during researching of this episode. It's not fun, not fun
Speaker 1: at all. And I can't imagine what Thad would be
Speaker 1: going through. He's thirteen years old.
Speaker 2: Well, I just can't even let fear and the agonizing pain. Yes,
Speaker 2: I need something. I need something to like fiddle with here,
Speaker 2: Like I gotta hold onto something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that coaster there you go, you to break it
Speaker 1: here and a half. Eventually it's just cork, go for it. Well,
Speaker 1: like I said that being thirteen though, and all this
Speaker 1: unfathomable pain. Let's just say it like that, because apparently
Speaker 1: breaking like femurs and stuff is one of the most
Speaker 1: excruciating things a human can feel. Apparently, so he blacked
Speaker 1: out as a result of this, and the injury that
Speaker 1: he did just sustain in this moment was a broken
Speaker 1: femur and a broken hip on the right side of
Speaker 1: his body. And that's along with the broken ankle that
Speaker 1: he already incurred on the right side of his body.
Speaker 2: Wow, that was that's some intense injuries right there. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't even know how well that would heal. Hey
Speaker 2: your hip, well.
Speaker 1: A hip is it can be very dangerous, especially it
Speaker 1: gets like more into the pelvis because you have your
Speaker 1: artery running through there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you.
Speaker 1: Break that pelvis, that is a get to the hospital now,
Speaker 1: because internal bleeding, Like you can bleed out and you're
Speaker 1: gonna die very quickly. All it takes is for a
Speaker 1: bone shard to puncture that artery and you're done.
Speaker 2: Dang.
Speaker 1: So when he did eventually wake up after blacking out,
Speaker 1: there was of course this excruciating pain radiating down the
Speaker 1: right side of his body into his leg hip as
Speaker 1: a result of the injuries, and Joe was just sitting
Speaker 1: there next to him, but he was now back to
Speaker 1: how he was when they first met. He was calm,
Speaker 1: he talked normal and being relatively kind instead of this bizarre, crazed,
Speaker 1: wanting to break bones type monster. He actually even began
Speaker 1: to explain to that you know what's going on. He
Speaker 1: said that he had a fascination with bones and the
Speaker 1: sound they made when they broke.
Speaker 2: Seriously, yes, the seventeen.
Speaker 1: Year old boy is fascinated by the sound of breaking bones.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really disturbing.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it is. Let's paint this picture though
Speaker 1: here outside of the breaking bones thing too, because he's
Speaker 1: now friendly with them, and that actually began I became
Speaker 1: getting friendly with Joe in this situation too, after he
Speaker 1: woke up. It's a very odd situation to look back
Speaker 1: on because Joe is now treating him as if he's
Speaker 1: basically a friend, even though he already had kidnapped him
Speaker 1: and really attacked him and they're strangers this whole thing,
Speaker 1: so like that is also treating him the same way.
Speaker 1: He's being nice and friendly even though he's on his couch,
Speaker 1: kidnapped by him and with broken legs able leg Sorry,
Speaker 1: so is he kind.
Speaker 2: Of just playing nice?
Speaker 1: So I must saying that's exactly what that's doing. He's
Speaker 1: got ulterior motives. Yeah, he's trying to a stall Joe.
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out a way to escape.
Speaker 1: He's trying to be befriend him in hopes that well,
Speaker 1: maybe he's just gonna let me go. And then also
Speaker 1: he's see trying to delay the possibility of an eventual
Speaker 1: additional attack.
Speaker 2: Yep, more broken bones. Yes, well, could you imagine being
Speaker 2: held captive and this person is just like going on
Speaker 2: about how he likes the sound of breaking bones.
Speaker 1: Oh, and he's already broken.
Speaker 2: Your bony Yeah, like quite a few of your bones.
Speaker 1: And he's already proven to easily been able to overpower you,
Speaker 1: and you have no way of preventing it from happening
Speaker 1: again other than being nice. That is your current only
Speaker 1: fucking weapon in this situation.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this is too much.
Speaker 1: It's too much right now. I just want to point
Speaker 1: out being nice is one thing, especially like to someone
Speaker 1: who's like hurting you, but you are in excruciating pain
Speaker 1: having to be nice.
Speaker 2: That's the one time I feel like where you can
Speaker 2: cut things kind of slip right where you like, if
Speaker 2: you are a kind person and you're in pain, like
Speaker 2: it's like fuck off because you're just in so much
Speaker 2: excruciating pain, you're not thinking.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're overwhelmed. Yeah, so shit can go south
Speaker 1: pretty quick in that sort of situation. But thatd has
Speaker 1: to keep it together because he doesn't want to trigger
Speaker 1: anything else to happen again. So through the rest of
Speaker 1: this night, Joe did go to sleep, and he told
Speaker 1: that as well to go ahead and get some sleep too,
Speaker 1: But Thad couldn't get a wink asleep. He was frozen
Speaker 1: in a fear and be in pain, wondering what was
Speaker 1: coming next and if he was going to survive. The
Speaker 1: next morning, when Joe woke up, Thad continued the idea
Speaker 1: of being friends with his abductor, and it was no
Speaker 1: big deal sort of thing. So Thad was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, hey, what'd be able to call for my
Speaker 1: parents to come and pick me up? Almost like it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, just a sleepover. It just ended like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's no big deal. This is just kind of like
Speaker 1: a normal big thing, and parents picked me up and
Speaker 1: it's just a normal freaking day, right, And he was
Speaker 1: actually extremely surprised when Joe said yeah and he handed
Speaker 1: him a telephone.
Speaker 2: Really really because at this point, like that can probably
Speaker 2: not even move really no, okay.
Speaker 1: So broken hip, femur and ankle, yeah, on his right
Speaker 1: hand side.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, now having a telephone in his hand and the
Speaker 1: permission to call his parents from Joe, adrenaline was pumping
Speaker 1: through his system as he's trying not to like make
Speaker 1: himself look like he's panicking.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, like this this could be my moment exactly.
Speaker 1: He's trying to keep it calm. So he took the phone,
Speaker 1: acting as casual as possible, dialed his parent's number, and
Speaker 1: held the receiver up to his ear. But when he did,
Speaker 1: the only thing you could hear was Joe's laughter on
Speaker 1: the other end.
Speaker 3: Of the room.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, so he was just fucking with him.
Speaker 1: The phone's cord was cut.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Oh it was a dead phone.
Speaker 2: That is heartbreaking, isn't it.
Speaker 1: That is so fucking cold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy, Okay, I'm like, i mean, I'm feeling
Speaker 2: like we're gonna be hearing about him. But he has
Speaker 2: to have some.
Speaker 1: Fiddle with the coaster. Fiddle with it. You're gonna need it.
Speaker 2: I think he has to have some like bipolar or
Speaker 2: some sort of mental health issues going on here big time.
Speaker 1: Uh, we'll talk about that a little bit later. I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, we were I'm yeah, like I said, we're gonna
Speaker 2: get there.
Speaker 1: I'm sure for sure. So he's now sitting there just
Speaker 1: again waiting for what's gonna happen next. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: they were sitting there, They're watching TV together, and a
Speaker 1: couple hours of waiting goes by, and then that caught
Speaker 1: a glimpse of something terrifying in Joe's eyes. When Joe
Speaker 1: looked at him, it was the same terrifying and cynical
Speaker 1: look that he saw the night before, in the moment
Speaker 1: when everything changed when Joe attacked him. Joe, in this moment,
Speaker 1: suddenly stood up, lifted that off the couch, carried him
Speaker 1: upstairs back to the bedroom where they were the night before,
Speaker 1: put him on the bed, and began the attack all
Speaker 1: over again, this time targeting his left ankle.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Okay.
Speaker 1: He immediately grabbed Thad's foot both hands and began to
Speaker 1: twist it in an unnatural way until the pressure was
Speaker 1: too much and the bone once again snapped. Pain rushed
Speaker 1: through Thad's body, but this time enough for him to
Speaker 1: sit up and strike Joe with a punch, but his
Speaker 1: attack was useless. Joe then took a pillow and pinned
Speaker 1: him down with the pillow over his face and told
Speaker 1: him that if he tried to fight back again the
Speaker 1: next time, he would be breaking his neck or his
Speaker 1: back instead of his legs.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: So he had two options, one basically be paralyzed or
Speaker 1: dead by trying to fight back, or continue to lay
Speaker 1: back and accept the brutal torture. And at one point
Speaker 1: during this part that had looked down at his left
Speaker 1: foot as it was being twisted so extreme that the
Speaker 1: skin on his ankle was being wrapped like a rubber
Speaker 1: band and his foot was facing backwards.
Speaker 2: Oh god, you're just torturing us.
Speaker 3: Now, this is horrid, this is in Oh, I don't
Speaker 3: even Later on in court, he was asked as he
Speaker 3: took the stand, what did your foot look like?
Speaker 1: And he said, quote, it was facing backwards.
Speaker 2: Wow, holy shit. Okay, it's like hard to even want
Speaker 2: to say. This is just so, this is so unfathomable
Speaker 2: to me that this is happening.
Speaker 1: It's wild, absolutely wild. And I can't stress enough that
Speaker 1: this is a thirteen year old boy going through this.
Speaker 2: Well and the fact that that was even happening. He
Speaker 2: got like a punch in. It's kind of impressive.
Speaker 1: It is, it really is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of felt ill before this podcast, so
Speaker 2: this is great.
Speaker 1: Just making it worse.
Speaker 2: It is great for me.
Speaker 1: Well, it took a while for this bit of attack
Speaker 1: to be over, and Joe began to confess to Fad
Speaker 1: that this wasn't just the sound of breaking bones that
Speaker 1: was making him do this. He also enjoyed and had
Speaker 1: a fascination with bones that went a little bit further.
Speaker 1: He enjoyed trying to fix and reset bones. Okay, so
Speaker 1: he opened up a dresser drawer that was jammed full
Speaker 1: to the brim with brand new sets of white socks
Speaker 1: and elastic bands. Then to top it all off, he
Speaker 1: also had an old hospital leg brace and he used
Speaker 1: all the materials layering socks after socks is padding and
Speaker 1: elastic bands to hold them in place, and then use
Speaker 1: the brace to hold the legs still. And while doing this,
Speaker 1: Joe even talked about how he tried to break his
Speaker 1: own legs in the past, but he just couldn't quite
Speaker 1: get the angles right to get the job done.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: Okay, So this whole medical procedure, if you want to
Speaker 1: call it, that he was trying to perform, it was crude,
Speaker 1: It was improvised. It was a basic attempt of a
Speaker 1: medical splint that was just not even coming close to
Speaker 1: working one iota. He had little knowledge at all about
Speaker 1: what he was doing. All he knew that he wanted
Speaker 1: to write the bones basically, and then let them get
Speaker 1: back at a place so hopefully he could come back
Speaker 1: and break them all over again.
Speaker 2: Where the actual shit is he like getting this fascination
Speaker 2: and learning this stuff.
Speaker 1: From That's a very good question.
Speaker 2: That is unbelievable. Like, I'm very speechless here, so I
Speaker 2: apologize that I am just processing, and yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: going well in my head right now.
Speaker 1: Well, continue to try and process, because it's one of
Speaker 1: those cases that I don't think we can process to
Speaker 1: the full extent. So after and during torture several times
Speaker 1: that day and having more of his bones and his
Speaker 1: legs broke, Wow, Thad heard Joe talking to someone else
Speaker 1: in the house. Down in the kitchen. He listened as
Speaker 1: close as he could, but he could hear no other
Speaker 1: voice of no other person. So to Thad, this could
Speaker 1: only mean one thing. It's talking to himself, not talking
Speaker 1: to himself. Because he was definitely talking to another person.
Speaker 1: He thought there must be a working phone somewhere in
Speaker 1: the house.
Speaker 2: Okay, and he's.
Speaker 1: Pretty sure he was in the kitchen when he was
Speaker 1: having this conversation. So Thad knew in his condition that
Speaker 1: this was his only chance to get out of the house.
Speaker 1: Was this phone?
Speaker 2: How the fuck is he going to get there? Though?
Speaker 1: Well, in the evening, Joe told Fad that he was
Speaker 1: going to be leaving the house, but not before warning, threatening,
Speaker 1: and of course further hurting Fad to prevent any attempts
Speaker 1: of escape. This, however, didn't stop him. He knew that
Speaker 1: he needed to get down to that phone. He needed
Speaker 1: to escape, He needed to do what he could. So
Speaker 1: once he was certain that Joe was out of the
Speaker 1: house and that he was alone, he rolled his broken
Speaker 1: body out of the bed and began to slowly crawl
Speaker 1: his way through the house. Oh my gosh, he made
Speaker 1: his way to the top of the stairs, which was
Speaker 1: his biggest obstacle.
Speaker 2: On the way, which, even making it that far as
Speaker 2: a feet.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely his first attempt, mind you. He decided he
Speaker 1: was going to try and slide down the stairs like
Speaker 1: feet first, but his legs were in way too much
Speaker 1: pain that it was an impossible feet, completely impossible feet,
Speaker 1: and Thad knew that standing was of course out of
Speaker 1: the question, and slowly going down the stairs as he's
Speaker 1: looking at it now, no matter the direction, it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to happen either. So this left him with only
Speaker 1: one option. He gathered up all his strength and all
Speaker 1: the adrenaline that he could and he threw himself down
Speaker 1: the stairs. Wow. Seriously, if he couldn't slowly climb it,
Speaker 1: he was going to fall it.
Speaker 2: Holy man, this guy is incredible at thirty incredible.
Speaker 1: It's wild. And I'm going to say this now because
Speaker 1: of course, you guys know what's going to happen. He
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent our badass of the day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he the will in him to live is
Speaker 2: that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Oh, we've only scratched the surface.
Speaker 2: Okay, good to know.
Speaker 1: So in the fall, he of course blacked out from
Speaker 1: the pain, but he would wake up a while later
Speaker 1: in a broken heap at the bottom of the stairs.
Speaker 1: But he knew what he had to do. He had
Speaker 1: to make his way to the kitchen. He had to
Speaker 1: get to the phone, so he slowly crawled, making it
Speaker 1: about a foot at a time and passing out in
Speaker 1: between each interval. He would make it about a foot
Speaker 1: and pass out, wake up, make it about a foot
Speaker 1: and pass out, all from the extreme pain that he
Speaker 1: was in.
Speaker 2: And I imagine he doesn't even know how long this
Speaker 2: is taking either. He has also like freaking out of
Speaker 2: when Joe's going to.
Speaker 1: Be getting home exactly. He doesn't know if he passed
Speaker 1: out for a minute or an hour exactly. So he's
Speaker 1: getting closer and closer to the case, nearly there, right
Speaker 1: where the phone must be. When he heard the front door.
Speaker 2: Fucking kidding, seriously, I'm pissed now.
Speaker 1: Joe came in with his girlfriend. His girlfriend, his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: He couldn't see the two, but he could hear them
Speaker 1: and she laughed. After a moment, and when the door closed,
Speaker 1: Joe came walking through the kitchen into the living room
Speaker 1: where he was laying just outside the kitchen. And Joe
Speaker 1: was furious now that at this point he uh he
Speaker 1: was passing out so much that he wouldn't even be
Speaker 1: awake for any sort of punishment that will be dealt
Speaker 1: to him. So in the morning is when Joe would
Speaker 1: give him his punishment and torture.
Speaker 2: He wanted him awake.
Speaker 1: He wanted him awake. So Joe continued. He was twisting
Speaker 1: his legs, grinding the bones against once one another as
Speaker 1: they moved. He would even jump up and land on
Speaker 1: his legs, his broken legs with his knees.
Speaker 2: This guy is a literal monster.
Speaker 1: Is Fad did everything he could to get through the
Speaker 1: pain and delay the assault as best he could. At
Speaker 1: one point, he said, I think I heard someone coming
Speaker 1: in the driveway, and in that moment, Joe quickly got
Speaker 1: up and looked at the window as if he was
Speaker 1: actually almost expecting someone. Okay, now it didn't buy much time,
Speaker 1: but it was at least a moment in between the
Speaker 1: brutal torture, and every moment at this point counted bad.
Speaker 1: In that moment, assume that Joe must actually be expecting someone.
Speaker 1: He must be expecting his girlfriend to come by again.
Speaker 1: So throughout this experience, a few more times he would
Speaker 1: say that he thinks he hears someone outside or someone's
Speaker 1: in the driveway, and each time it brought him a
Speaker 1: brief break, as Joe would go look out the window.
Speaker 2: But is that not I feel like that's also gonna
Speaker 2: be making Joe mad?
Speaker 1: Potentially it could be. Now, this was all absolutely horrific,
Speaker 1: and it brought Thad to ask a question. So, during
Speaker 1: this horrific experience, while he's being beaten and in extreme pain,
Speaker 1: he asked, have you done this to anyone else before? Because,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is so extreme? Is he really going
Speaker 1: this far on a first assault?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That's actually I feel like that's an impressive question.
Speaker 2: That is that you're in that much excruciating pain and
Speaker 2: being tortured, and you're curious if anyone else has gone
Speaker 2: through this at thirteen?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the age. I cannot get over the fact
Speaker 1: that this kid is thirteen. Like he is a literal
Speaker 1: fucking badass.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a child. Wow, Like that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So to answer his question, and given Thad's current state,
Speaker 1: Joe must have assumed that there was going to be
Speaker 1: no escape and that he would probably be killing him soon,
Speaker 1: So he had no problem confessing that yes, there were
Speaker 1: other people and he had actually given a couple names,
Speaker 1: and then continued his punishment.
Speaker 2: That he killed probably yes, seriously.
Speaker 1: Yes, other people that endured this and other people that
Speaker 1: he killed. And then he continued his punishment, and he
Speaker 1: continued hurting Fad to whatever extent he deemed necessary.
Speaker 2: This guy is literally a nasty motherfucker.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So eventually Joe's girlfriend did show up. She did pull
Speaker 1: up in the driveway, which meant the torture was over
Speaker 1: for now briefly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So to prevent Fad from trying to escape again, Joe
Speaker 1: decided he was going to put him in the closet
Speaker 1: and shut the door and lock it. So he left
Speaker 1: the house with Fad locked in the closet. And the
Speaker 1: one thing he didn't account for because he's assuming he's
Speaker 1: going to be locked in there, he's not getting out,
Speaker 1: and he's going to be done. He's not gonna be
Speaker 1: able to do anything, not be able to get anywhere.
Speaker 1: He's helpless, right, But he didn't account for Thad's determination.
Speaker 1: That's the key here. Once that realized that he wasn't
Speaker 1: the only victim of this brutal, bone breaking torture, he
Speaker 1: knew that if he died, if he was going to
Speaker 1: continue to be able to do this, he wasn't going
Speaker 1: to be the last one. So Thad set his focus
Speaker 1: on escaping to ensure that this didn't happen to anyone else.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that makes me want to just cry.
Speaker 1: Heye, doesn't it Like that is just like.
Speaker 2: The most amazing person in the whole world. He's an angel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, I don't want anyone else to go
Speaker 1: through this. I'm gonna make sure I escape and bring
Speaker 1: this guy to justice so he can't do it to
Speaker 1: anyone else. And he's thinking of this while he's locked up,
Speaker 1: while he's brutally beaten with massively broken legs, and he's
Speaker 1: in show in shock, and he's fucking.
Speaker 2: Thirty and still able to think clearly to prevent this
Speaker 2: from happening to.
Speaker 1: Someone else exactly right.
Speaker 2: Wow, Like I keep saying wow, but this is unbook.
Speaker 2: This story is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It's wild, absolutely wild. So he's locked in this closet
Speaker 1: and he knows he needs to escape, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: know how. So he begins looking around in the closet
Speaker 1: for something to help. And between all the garbage, the
Speaker 1: dirty clothes, the rotting food that's.
Speaker 2: In there, just must reak in there.
Speaker 1: It's going to be gross. But he's rifling around and
Speaker 1: he finds an electric guitar, and this guitar was going
Speaker 1: to be the perfect thing to break through the thin
Speaker 1: walls of the manufactured wooden door.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So he takes his guitar and begins smashing the door
Speaker 1: with it. He breaks through the door, reaches through and
Speaker 1: unlocks the door from the other side and opens it
Speaker 1: and he's now out of the closet.
Speaker 2: So has Joe not really been injuring his arms? It's
Speaker 2: more so as like legs.
Speaker 1: He's only been after his legs.
Speaker 2: His hips, like leg Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that he's like hitting them and beating them
Speaker 1: a bit, but he's he's only focused on breaking the
Speaker 1: legs and stuff right now.
Speaker 2: Okay, So he hasn't been okay, yeah, Oh, which I'm like,
Speaker 2: I was just gonna be like, well, I guess it's
Speaker 2: slight blessing, but this is all nothing in.
Speaker 1: Here is well there's silver linings, right, yeah, there's there's
Speaker 1: always a silver lining somewhere, and there is going to
Speaker 1: be some silver linings here shortly.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So once he smashed through the door and it was open,
Speaker 1: he proceeded with the scate same escape plan as yesterday,
Speaker 1: only this time he knew that this was going to
Speaker 1: be his last attempt. If he was discovered this time,
Speaker 1: Joe was going to kill him.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: And that was without a doubt in his mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he pulled his broken body along the floor again
Speaker 1: to the top of the stairs, and this time he
Speaker 1: didn't even hesitate. He just immediately threw his body down
Speaker 1: the stairs to the bottom.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And just like last time, he blacked out. And then
Speaker 1: he would crawl a foot or two and blackout again,
Speaker 1: crawl a foot or two and blackout again. And just
Speaker 1: like you said, he has no idea the time this
Speaker 1: is taking. In any moment that door can open again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he knows you just got to keep going
Speaker 2: like this this hole man, I'm like almost like pumped
Speaker 2: for him in the sense that like just having that
Speaker 2: much like will and desire and determination like this boy's
Speaker 2: gonna do if. I mean, you said it's a survivor's story, but.
Speaker 1: Good things, Well, his first good thing is he made it.
Speaker 2: He made it.
Speaker 1: He made it to the kitchen. Okay, So as he
Speaker 1: got into the kitchen, there on the wall he looked
Speaker 1: up was a phone fixed to the wall up high. Oh,
Speaker 1: of course, but I did say there's some silver lining things.
Speaker 1: Lucky enough for him, this phone had a long coiled
Speaker 1: cord that was hanging down perfect, so he managed to
Speaker 1: make his way to the phone, reach up, grab the cord,
Speaker 1: and yank it off until it fell down. And then
Speaker 1: that's when he realized he had a second lucky silver
Speaker 1: lining moment. All the numbers to dial were on the
Speaker 1: receiver that were now in his hands, that have mounted
Speaker 1: high up on the wall with the phone.
Speaker 2: Because I was like, where are the numbers? I was waiting,
Speaker 2: where are the numbers? Please don't be on the wall.
Speaker 1: They were right in his hand, amazing, So he quickly
Speaker 1: took the phone, dialed nine to one one was able
Speaker 1: to give a very brief description of where he was
Speaker 1: located and the house and everything right, and it only
Speaker 1: took a few minutes before police were later storming the house. Yes, however,
Speaker 1: I want to make a note here. The police initially
Speaker 1: thought this was a prank call. No way, they didn't
Speaker 1: hesitate to show up.
Speaker 2: Okay they did, you're kidding.
Speaker 1: But they initially thought this was a prank call. And
Speaker 1: there is audio recording of this nine one one call
Speaker 1: where the police are like, yeah, we're on our way
Speaker 1: to this house. This better not be a fucking prank call.
Speaker 1: Because that was so calm and collected on the phone.
Speaker 1: They thought, there's no way this kid's like kidnapped.
Speaker 2: At a house and in like dying basically from the pain. Yes, seriously,
Speaker 2: he has calm on there.
Speaker 1: He sounded like a normal kid, just like I'm talking
Speaker 1: to you right now, just a kid's voice.
Speaker 2: If this guy, he's just like a miracle, he's a miracle.
Speaker 1: While he's on the phone, you can hear police storming
Speaker 1: in the house and like that, are you there? And
Speaker 1: he's like yeah, I'm over here, Like is anyone else
Speaker 1: in the house. No, I'm the only one. He's just
Speaker 1: talking to him normal. It's in fucking sane.
Speaker 2: How on earth? It just has to be a shock thing.
Speaker 2: He has so much adrenaline going through his body.
Speaker 1: I guess, right, maybe, and I mean it must be.
Speaker 1: I can't think it's still any other way.
Speaker 2: You still think you're breathing and stuff would be labored
Speaker 2: because you're just like your body is going through hell
Speaker 2: on Earth.
Speaker 1: Yeap, So like you said, hell on Earth. He is
Speaker 1: clearly in absolute rough shape. When they arrived and they
Speaker 1: did rush him to the hospital. Now, his legs were swollen,
Speaker 1: broken in multiple places, bruised with significant discoloring all throughout,
Speaker 1: and on the way to the hospital, the ambulance attendants
Speaker 1: told him they estimated that without any medical attention, he
Speaker 1: would have died in about two hours due to internal
Speaker 1: bleeding in his legs. If he didn't make it to
Speaker 1: that phone, he had only two more hours to live.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Really, so even like if Joe didn't
Speaker 2: finish him.
Speaker 1: Or not, basically it was either he died in that
Speaker 1: closet or he made it to the phone.
Speaker 2: Huh wow, that is that's just incredible that this story
Speaker 2: is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It's wild. Yeah, so clearly this is going to be
Speaker 1: a long road for recovery though.
Speaker 2: Fourth oh yeah, I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1: But even still, he only had one thing on his mind.
Speaker 1: He wanted Joe to be stopped and to come to justice.
Speaker 1: So only hours later that same night, while in the hospital,
Speaker 1: Dad was trying to remember the names of the victims
Speaker 1: that Joe had previously mentioned to him. Now he could
Speaker 1: only ever remember one name.
Speaker 2: Oh dang, that's still that's good.
Speaker 1: Yes, he could only remember Chris, Chris s He couldn't
Speaker 1: remember the last name. So that same night, while they're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out this name, his dad is sitting
Speaker 1: there beside him and at the hospital bed, flipping through
Speaker 1: the phone book, reading s names to him to try
Speaker 1: and jog his memory, trigger it and see if they
Speaker 1: could figure out names. Because this is another local individual,
Speaker 1: clearly a victim of this kid. Local phone book, the
Speaker 1: name has to be in here. So he's reading through
Speaker 1: the s names and he gets to Steiner and that
Speaker 1: was it, Chris Steiner. That was the name, he said,
Speaker 1: that's the kid. That's the name. He said. That one
Speaker 1: Chris Steiner. A year before, on July fourth, nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: went missing, went missing. He was fourteen.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So Chris had a new job at McDonald's and needed
Speaker 1: to be up early for a shift. So he went
Speaker 1: to bed and his parents went to wake him up.
Speaker 1: The next morning at about six fifteen am.
Speaker 2: He wasn't work.
Speaker 1: He was gone. Now, initially it took them twenty four
Speaker 1: hours to report his disappearance because they thought fourth of July,
Speaker 1: fourteen year old kid might have snuck out all this
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So it was the next day when
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, something's really wrong, so they reported a missing.
Speaker 1: An investigation has ensued and they did discover after actually investigating,
Speaker 1: that there was a cut screen on the window of
Speaker 1: his bedroom. Really and after talking to the parents, there
Speaker 1: was one door that was left unlocked that is always.
Speaker 2: Locked, so he like snuck through the cut screen and
Speaker 2: then went out the door.
Speaker 1: Correct. They also did find muddy footprints in some areas
Speaker 1: of the house and footprints in the yard that were
Speaker 1: too big to be Chris's.
Speaker 2: So this guy as a literal seventeen year old or
Speaker 2: sixteen year old or whatever like serial killer.
Speaker 1: Hey, basically.
Speaker 2: That's mind blowing. Oh my goodness. And to think that
Speaker 2: if that did not get away, how many more people
Speaker 2: that he would have done this to?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it wouldn't have stopped.
Speaker 2: It would have gotten worse.
Speaker 1: It would have one So it would be five days
Speaker 1: later after he disappeared that Chris's body would be found.
Speaker 1: His body was caught snagged on a tree in a
Speaker 1: river bank along the Wisconsin River. His body was found
Speaker 1: bloated and badly decomposed. An autopsy was done and his
Speaker 1: cause of death was said to be drowning, but there
Speaker 1: was no actual determined determination on how he ended up
Speaker 1: in the river or anything, so it was considered unknown undetermined.
Speaker 1: But cause of death was drowned.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I imagine if he had some broken bones
Speaker 2: that he wouldn't have been swim right, if Joe did
Speaker 2: throw him in the water when he was like still alive.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that. But as for as
Speaker 1: far as the autopsy went, no broken bones were found. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: but we're going to get to that. So unfortunately, there
Speaker 1: was no other evidence that could really be found, and
Speaker 1: his case was left cold and he was buried and
Speaker 1: laid to rest. Now it was back to bad story.
Speaker 1: It was quickly determined that an individual who was a
Speaker 1: suspect in Chris's disappearance was a local teenage bully by
Speaker 1: the name of Joe Clark. He was seventeen, and he
Speaker 1: was found and quickly arrested. Police went and got permission
Speaker 1: to re examine Chris's body, so they re exhumed his remains,
Speaker 1: and their astonishment, the autopsy completely missed several broken bones
Speaker 1: in his legs. How it's assumed that due to the
Speaker 1: bloat in his body, breaks weren't visible bull or anything. Okay,
Speaker 1: so it gave no reason for X rays in the area,
Speaker 1: especially considering drowning. They're looking at like asphyxiation, lungs and stuff, right, So.
Speaker 2: That okay, that's fair, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So once they compared Chris's X rays to Thad's X rays,
Speaker 1: the breaks were almost in identical fashions, really, same way
Speaker 1: of force, same spot, the brakes were in you name it,
Speaker 1: which confirmed Joe and Chris's assailant.
Speaker 2: Just like this teenager hases like m O already like that.
Speaker 2: This is just so disturbing. I'm so disturbed by this case.
Speaker 1: Get ready for this one.
Speaker 2: It gets freaking worse.
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't necessarily get worse, but there's a final
Speaker 1: smoking gun, if you will. For Joe. They would end up,
Speaker 1: of course, getting search warrants and everything, and they would
Speaker 1: search his room and they found a notebook, and within
Speaker 1: this notebook there were three handwritten lists. These three lists
Speaker 1: included the names of local boys and all the headings
Speaker 1: on the lists were A get to know b can
Speaker 1: wait and see leg thing?
Speaker 2: Oh seriously, yes, leg thing, leg thing That's fucked, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So did they find out the other freaking names of
Speaker 2: the other ones.
Speaker 1: Then unfortunately anyone that was confessed by Joe. No, they're
Speaker 1: not too sure. And there is no other evidence on
Speaker 1: any other actual victims. Okay, nothing that anyone is aware of.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: So it would take nearly a year before the trial occurred,
Speaker 1: and Thad stood trial without fear of Joe. He said
Speaker 1: he could not wait to get up there, and he
Speaker 1: did not He was not afraid of him.
Speaker 2: He said, Oh my gosh, he's incredible.
Speaker 1: Joe pleaded insanity at the trial and claimed that he
Speaker 1: had absolutely no recollection of the events whatsoever. He said
Speaker 1: he did remember just having every intent to hang out
Speaker 1: with that and that's it, but he just blacks out
Speaker 1: and doesn't remember anything else. But he did also say
Speaker 1: that it was Thad who broke his bones himself.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I totally like I I am one
Speaker 2: hundred percent. I believe like mental health is a thing,
Speaker 2: like people can have mental health issues, yes, but I
Speaker 2: do not believe him. I think that kid is full
Speaker 2: of shit.
Speaker 1: Well, the notebook with the three lists would throw that
Speaker 1: whole defense tactic out the window, because it showed that
Speaker 1: he knew what he was doing and premeditation, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so in regarding to Thad and the kidnapping and attempted murder,
Speaker 1: Joe would receive one hundred years.
Speaker 2: In jail, and that's where he is today. But that's
Speaker 2: not the end, of course, not, of course not, because
Speaker 2: I just have to say one more thing here. He
Speaker 2: literally blacks out when the ship's going down, but that
Speaker 2: he knows that Thad broke his own bones. I know
Speaker 2: that just isn't none of that makes any sense. I
Speaker 2: know I'm pissed right now. Yeah, what the heck? He
Speaker 2: better still be in jail, Ben, Like, come, are you
Speaker 2: threatening me? Because I'm not gonna be happy here and
Speaker 2: it's like bedtime and I'm gonna have to try to
Speaker 2: get a nice sleep because I'm wanted the gym in
Speaker 2: the morning, and like, I better not be getting even
Speaker 2: more pissed here.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I haven't even got to like say anything yet,
Speaker 1: and you're just like literally threatening me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Everyone listening is like, I Ope, it's okay.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, if I wake up with a broken leg
Speaker 1: in the morning, you know what happened. Wow, Well, I
Speaker 1: was referring more to There was also a trial for
Speaker 1: Chris Steiner, who was the one who was found drowned
Speaker 1: and everything. I was like, yeah, you were drawing it
Speaker 1: there for a minute.
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So of course there was the trial for Thad and
Speaker 1: Joe received one hundred years sentence for that. Okay, but
Speaker 1: now we're on the trial for Chris Steiner, so I
Speaker 1: cannot clarify this part of it. I could not get
Speaker 1: a name, so I couldn't research it. Any article I looked,
Speaker 1: I could not find it. So if someone else has
Speaker 1: any information on it, please reach out. I'd love to
Speaker 1: actually be able to find some more information. They had
Speaker 1: asked Thad to stand trial for this Chris Steiner case
Speaker 1: as well. Okay, days before and again just clarifying, I
Speaker 1: can't confirm any of this if it is true, so
Speaker 1: just clarifying that this is hearsay at this point. Days
Speaker 1: before this trial, one of Joe's apparent friends showed up
Speaker 1: to Thad's place with a hunting rifle and shot him
Speaker 1: in the back twice.
Speaker 2: Shot Sad in the back, yes, actual friends.
Speaker 1: Apparently, and so he still survived this shooting, apparently and
Speaker 1: was still able to go on trial. I could not
Speaker 1: find the name of the person who apparently shot Thad,
Speaker 1: so I could not find any information on if this
Speaker 1: is true, and I couldn't find any articles on it whatsoever.
Speaker 1: But I did watch one YouTube video where they talked
Speaker 1: about it. So I'm curious if that's true or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that seems wild how it does go through anything.
Speaker 1: Out I know, so that portion is hearsay. Okay. However,
Speaker 1: there was for sure a trial held for Chris Steiner,
Speaker 1: and Joe pleaded innocent to the murder charges. He unfortunately
Speaker 1: for him, did not have an alibi, and there was
Speaker 1: an absolutely overwhelming amount of evidence, of course, found through
Speaker 1: Thad's trial, and the jury would find him guilty of
Speaker 1: Chris Steiner's murder good and this case would finally be
Speaker 1: closed and there was finally closure for his family, and
Speaker 1: Joe would be given a life sentence. So he is
Speaker 1: now one hundred years plus life in prison.
Speaker 2: So he's in jail right now.
Speaker 1: You bet ya?
Speaker 2: Okay. I was very hesitant to ask that because if
Speaker 2: he was not, I would have age.
Speaker 1: Okay, I can tell now Joe is going to be
Speaker 1: behind bars for the rest of his life. Thatad walks
Speaker 1: around alive today, walks around just fine, though he will
Speaker 1: forever be reminded of the horrors he went through with
Speaker 1: each step he does take, because he is left with
Speaker 1: a bit of a limp that follows him everywhere. But
Speaker 1: I do want to say that limp is definitely not
Speaker 1: a sign of weakness. That limp is a sign of
Speaker 1: strength and a testament to who he is and his
Speaker 1: resilience one hundred and ten percent.
Speaker 2: Well he Yeah, it's unbelievable what he went through and
Speaker 2: that he was still I don't know, his will to
Speaker 2: live is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It is incredible.
Speaker 2: There are so many people that I think, like in
Speaker 2: that situation, like you wouldn't and rightfully so too, Like
Speaker 2: you would just I think, give up and be like, oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm just done in the face of something
Speaker 1: like that. It's so easy to give up because that's
Speaker 1: that's what are you left with. You have nothing, it's
Speaker 1: taken away.
Speaker 2: And the pain and stuff like yeah, so I think
Speaker 2: and you would probably just think that you're done, like
Speaker 2: your how on earth would I get out of that?
Speaker 1: Yees? And I do think that if that didn't have
Speaker 1: that thing to look for, that he was trying to
Speaker 1: save someone else because he had concrete knowledge that this
Speaker 1: is going to happen. To someone else because it happened
Speaker 1: to more than just me. If he didn't have that,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he would have survived, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I think that's what got him to push through.
Speaker 2: He was thinking about something much bigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was thinking about I need to stop this
Speaker 1: guy from hurting someone else. Yeah, and he wasn't thinking
Speaker 1: about his own survival. And I think that's what made
Speaker 1: him survive.
Speaker 2: And what makes him like a complete incredible person.
Speaker 1: Oh, pretty much everything about that story makes him a
Speaker 1: complete incredible person. But yeah, that definitely the top of
Speaker 1: the list. Wow. Yeah, And I mean I've broken very
Speaker 1: little bones in my life. I've only ever broken like
Speaker 1: I think, Well, they say you break like toes and
Speaker 1: stuff lots and you don't even know it. And I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure I've broken a toe or two once or twice,
Speaker 1: and then it broke my hand once. All it broke
Speaker 1: my one hand twice in the same spot. But that's it,
Speaker 1: so pretty minor stuff for me. I can't imagine have
Speaker 1: someone literally torquing your leg to the point of it
Speaker 1: just snapped.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sound I think that you would hear, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, oh, the sound would probably well not like, of course,
Speaker 1: the pain. But I think the sound is what's going
Speaker 1: to live with you because I know the remember my
Speaker 1: stag party when we two weeks before you got married
Speaker 1: and sent you that picture.
Speaker 2: People probably don't know this, well.
Speaker 1: Funny story. Two weeks before you got married. Out of
Speaker 1: my stag party, I was fed a lot of drinks
Speaker 1: and I ended up tripping around the bonfire and I
Speaker 1: hit my head on a stump that was like a
Speaker 1: seat by the bonfire and I hit my like just
Speaker 1: side of my face, right beside my eye. I can
Speaker 1: still hear the sound to this day of my head
Speaker 1: hitting that one.
Speaker 2: Well, you still have a scar, don't you?
Speaker 1: A little bit you have? You gotta look hard for it.
Speaker 1: It is there.
Speaker 2: It's actually quite visible right now if you.
Speaker 1: Look forward, it's there. Yeah, yeah, but you don't notice
Speaker 1: it otherwise.
Speaker 2: So as a wedding photographer, a like, don't have your
Speaker 2: stag that close to your wedding and make sure your
Speaker 2: wedding photographer will like edit that out if something bad happens,
Speaker 2: because ours did not know.
Speaker 1: I had a little bit of a black eye and
Speaker 1: a bit of a scab on the side of my face.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, people would just expect that from you.
Speaker 1: Ben, thank you. I think, Wow, I'm just kidding, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's that sound. Pain fades over time, but there's
Speaker 1: going to be certain things that cling to you, and
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that sound is going to be
Speaker 1: something that would probably cling with them. Oh yeah, among
Speaker 1: other things of course, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the trauma that he must have, so I
Speaker 2: mean hopefully, but just from the story of him and
Speaker 2: like how incredibly he is, I feel like if anyone
Speaker 2: can kind of go on to maybe live somewhat of
Speaker 2: like a normal or happy life, it's him.
Speaker 1: Which I mean, he does have a family now, he is,
Speaker 1: he does have kids and everything like that, so that's awesome.
Speaker 1: So he's definitely living a good life now there.
Speaker 2: His kids have like one badass of a dad that's no.
Speaker 1: Shit like Batman ain't got shit on Fad No kidding, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Fad the badass dad. Hm hm.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that's good. Actually, I can't believe I
Speaker 2: haven't heard this story. I mean, this would be probably
Speaker 2: one of those stories though that I would I would
Speaker 2: probably not dig deep because like it's very disturbing.
Speaker 1: Well, this is one that a friend of mine has
Speaker 1: been requesting for a while Dana, So shout out to Dana.
Speaker 1: She was talking to this just the other day. Actually
Speaker 1: it was a few weeks ago. She said, yeah, you
Speaker 1: got to do this, one got to do it. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do it here, coming quick.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I mean that would have been pretty
Speaker 2: brutal to research.
Speaker 1: So well done, thank you. And now I want to
Speaker 1: go listen to it on Morbid because apparently they did
Speaker 1: it like three days ago too. Oh gosh, I know,
Speaker 1: So I want to go hear their their take on
Speaker 1: it because I didn't want to listen to it as
Speaker 1: I'm like in the middle of researching this. I want
Speaker 1: to get like affected by how they did it. But
Speaker 1: I'm curious their take too and what their opinion is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean everyone has their different takes on
Speaker 2: it too, and like their personalities and what they choose
Speaker 2: to because like you could probably many of our podcasts
Speaker 2: could be numerous episodes, right oh yeah, only select certain
Speaker 2: bits and like fit them in the show and stuff.
Speaker 1: So well, I mean, like honestly, this case could probably
Speaker 1: be turned into like a ten part Netflix documentary series even, yeah,
Speaker 1: like easily because you can we can talk to people
Speaker 1: involved and we can get statements, and there are documentaries
Speaker 1: on this one out there where you can pull statements,
Speaker 1: you can get the nine on one audio call, and
Speaker 1: you can you can do massive deep dives. So so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's curious to really see what other people know. And
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm really curious to see if anyone
Speaker 1: knows if thatad was shot, if that is a true thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of hoping that really didn't happen, because
Speaker 2: that boy went through it off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like it was a bit of a
Speaker 1: far fetched portion of the story. But it also I
Speaker 1: was like, well, why is someone going to just make
Speaker 1: this up like that? There has got to be something
Speaker 1: to it. So I'm curious if anyone can find anything
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I certainly wasn't able to.
Speaker 2: I mean, my main reaction to that was Joa's friends,
Speaker 2: because seriously, who the fuck would be his friend?
Speaker 1: He's he apparently had a girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Yeah that is mind blowing. But I also feel like
Speaker 2: he had like dual personalities in a sense.
Speaker 1: Well, there there was something. I didn't do a whole
Speaker 1: lot of research on it because I already had a
Speaker 1: lot of information and I think this podcast has already
Speaker 1: had about an hour right now. But there was something
Speaker 1: about potential lead poisoning leading to a lot of child
Speaker 1: aggression in Wisconsin in these years, because apparently there was
Speaker 1: like a lead type gold rush in the eighteen hundreds
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of lead in the area as
Speaker 1: a result of it, and it has led to a
Speaker 1: potential apparently it affects kids and violence or something, and
Speaker 1: I am actually kind of interested to do a little
Speaker 1: bit of post research on that and see if it
Speaker 1: is a factor. And then there was also claims in
Speaker 1: court that Joe's mother drugged him as a kid and
Speaker 1: she was taking drugs during his pregnancy, and there's some
Speaker 1: other different things at play there potentially, but it seemed
Speaker 1: like a lot of them were just defense claims well.
Speaker 2: And honestly though, to get to that point that he
Speaker 2: had to probably have some sort of not the best
Speaker 2: of pasts really, because I feel like to literally get
Speaker 2: these that young, like you're still pretty young, yeah, and
Speaker 2: to be that much of a fucking monster, that like
Speaker 2: something had to happen that wasn't all good to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, just like we shouldn't be shown like I
Speaker 2: don't want to show them any sympathy, but like something
Speaker 2: had to have happened.
Speaker 1: I feel like I think so, and there there isn't
Speaker 1: a whole lot of information. Most of the things out
Speaker 1: there regarding what it could be is hearsay is hey,
Speaker 1: maybe this is it, and someone just kind of like
Speaker 1: talking about it. There's no real real research or real
Speaker 1: information regarding what it could potentially be.
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, yeah, there was a recent Grey's Anatomy
Speaker 2: episode where somebody had a bullet stuck in them and
Speaker 2: they were getting lead poisoning and it completely changed them.
Speaker 2: So that could be a thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's how that works.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Lots of times Grey's Anatomy actually takes
Speaker 2: life situations, though, but the bullet was in this person,
Speaker 2: like I don't chest cavity for like ten years.
Speaker 1: Or oh that would mean and then it's.
Speaker 2: After like it started leaking or whatever. I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, over course of years, you haven't feel stuck
Speaker 1: in them. I was thinking like, oh, I just got
Speaker 1: shot ten minutes ago, and now I have like poisoning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like described it badly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I said, I don't think that's how
Speaker 1: that works. It's not like the bullet's melting in them
Speaker 1: or something. But no, over years, Yeah, the lead might
Speaker 1: slowly seep in.
Speaker 2: The never ending show. Hey, Gray's Anatomy, But I've watched
Speaker 2: every episode.
Speaker 1: Of what season are they on now?
Speaker 2: I don't even know nineteen or something they're going into
Speaker 2: She's la hueez. I don't know. It's crazy, but I'll
Speaker 2: keep I'm gonna keep watching.
Speaker 1: Yeah, keep watching it. Do your thing mm hm, and
Speaker 1: you guys can keep listening. Maybe that'd be cool. That'd
Speaker 1: be awesome. If you want to go give us a
Speaker 1: cool review, that'd be awesome. You can go give us
Speaker 1: a five star or give us a one star if
Speaker 1: you want to go ahead and be honest. We prefer
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Speaker 1: go ahead and check out our Instagram or Facebook or
Speaker 1: YouTube or Patreon, and all the stuff is listed down below.
Speaker 1: And we just appreciate you being here too. That is fantastic.
Speaker 1: You don't have to do anything else other than that,
Speaker 1: even so, thank you so much for just that.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to us ramble on about fucking monsters
Speaker 2: for an hour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you a lot. We definitely do,
Speaker 1: but we don't appreciate the fucking monsters in this world.
Speaker 2: No, we don't know.
Speaker 1: So anyways, we'll talk to you next time. Thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: and until then, stay wicked.