1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Okay, picture this. You've got this massive army, right battle

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,799
hardened soldiers, one of the biggest in the world, and

3
00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:09,800
they just stop fighting, put down their weapons, thousands of

4
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,400
them surrendering, and not a single shot fired. I mean,

5
00:00:13,519 --> 00:00:16,679
what kind of force, what unseen thing could make that happen?

6
00:00:16,719 --> 00:00:19,120
It sounds almost like a riddle or something.

7
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,000
Speaker 2: It really does, and it's a pretty chilling one actually,

8
00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:27,679
because today that's exactly what we're diving into, this whole fascinating,

9
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,359
sometimes frankly unsettling history of how our behavior, our thoughts,

10
00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:36,240
maybe even our emotions could be influenced without us even

11
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,399
realizing it consciously.

12
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to unpack some pretty surprising stuff in

13
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,719
instances of this invisible persuasion. You could call it, everything

14
00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:47,479
from like old school advertising tricks that seem almost funny

15
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,200
now to some really sophisticated military applications that well they'll

16
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:52,439
make you think yeah.

17
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,759
Speaker 2: White definitely. So our mission today really is to sift

18
00:00:54,799 --> 00:00:58,600
through the history, the science, what research there is and

19
00:00:58,759 --> 00:01:01,880
yet even actual patents, to try and understand the mechanics

20
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,560
behind this unseen influence.

21
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,799
Speaker 1: Right, we want you listening to come away from this

22
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,480
deep dive feeling really informed about this hidden aspect of things.

23
00:01:10,519 --> 00:01:13,079
It's kind of a journey into the hidden levers of persuasion.

24
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,159
Speaker 2: I guess okay, So let's set the scene. Go back

25
00:01:15,159 --> 00:01:19,400
to January twenty seventh, nineteen ninety one. We're in Basra, Iraq,

26
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,000
and Saddam Hussein is let's just say, he's not happy.

27
00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:27,719
Speaker 1: He's furious understatement, probably right.

28
00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 2: His invasion of Kuwait six months before total disaster. Coalition

29
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,359
air attacks are relentless, Iraqi defenses are crumbling, his air

30
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,120
force is pretty much gone. His whole plan for this big,

31
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,000
costly ground war is just falling apart.

32
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 1: But it's worse than that, isn't it.

33
00:01:43,439 --> 00:01:45,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, The thing that's really getting to him is

34
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,879
his soldiers. These are supposed to be battle tested troops,

35
00:01:47,879 --> 00:01:51,760
among the world's best, and they're just surrendering in huge numbers,

36
00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:52,359
giving up.

37
00:01:52,519 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: That's got to be terrifying from a strategic standpoint. Your

38
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,079
best guy's just walking away.

39
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,519
Speaker 2: So what happens, Well, an intelligence report hits his desk.

40
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,560
It points to an FM transmitter just over the border

41
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,519
in Coffee Saudi Arabia. Now, at first, Hussein apparently just

42
00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:10,919
dismisses it. You know, probably thinks it's propaganda, some Western trick.

43
00:02:11,159 --> 00:02:13,800
Makes sense, but one of his officers tells him, no,

44
00:02:13,879 --> 00:02:17,240
read the whole thing, because this report it's claiming that

45
00:02:17,319 --> 00:02:22,439
this FM station is broadcasting get this subliminal messages, and

46
00:02:22,479 --> 00:02:26,120
that these messages are causing his troops to surrender through

47
00:02:26,599 --> 00:02:28,159
well they called it mind control.

48
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, subliminal mind control radio. That sounds out there.

49
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,879
Speaker 2: Totally, but the idea weird as it sounds. It sticks

50
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,080
despite initially brushing it off, Husain gives this like shocking order,

51
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,360
destroy that tower and do it in three days?

52
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 1: Three days? What did his officers say?

53
00:02:46,439 --> 00:02:49,919
Speaker 2: I pushed back hard said it was basically a suicide mission.

54
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:51,639
They had no air support. They didn't even know if

55
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,240
this mind control weapon was real or just you know,

56
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,319
some American bluff.

57
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 1: Oh Husain didn't care.

58
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 2: Nope, he was firm. Three days the tower had to go.

59
00:02:59,319 --> 00:03:00,000
End of discussion.

60
00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so now switch scenes. Imagine your marine corporal Jesse Colvin,

61
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,400
observation Post four coff g. It's maybe eight pm, quite night,

62
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,759
just wind radio crackle. He's scanning the horizon, not expecting

63
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,800
much trouble. I mean, the coalition owned the sky right.

64
00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:14,639
Speaker 2: Totally it felt like total air supremacy.

65
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,360
Speaker 1: But then he hears this rumble, thinks it's thunder at first,

66
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:24,479
looks through his night vision gear and oh boy, Iraqi

67
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,919
tanks troops coming from the north.

68
00:03:27,159 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 2: He yells into his radio, right contact contact enemy armor.

69
00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:32,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the radio is dead, jammed nothing.

70
00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:36,039
Speaker 2: Ninety minutes. That's how long it took for air support

71
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,080
to show up. By then, it was way too late.

72
00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:39,879
The Iraqis had taken Kafechee.

73
00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: And their main goal wasn't even holding the city, was

74
00:03:41,719 --> 00:03:42,599
it exactly?

75
00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:46,479
Speaker 2: It became clear later their primary objective was destroying that

76
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,919
specific FM radio transmitter the marine's guarding it. Like Colvin,

77
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,759
they had absolutely no idea they were supposedly protecting some

78
00:03:53,879 --> 00:03:55,360
kind of subliminal weapon.

79
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,599
Speaker 1: That is just what the sheer drama of it. Your

80
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,360
hackey intelligence genuinely believe this thing was real enough to

81
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:02,319
launch a major attack.

82
00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 2: It really sets the stage, doesn't it, This idea of

83
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,719
unseen influence becoming a literal military target. Was it real?

84
00:04:08,719 --> 00:04:11,199
Could it actually make soldiers just give up?

85
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,439
Speaker 1: That's the million dollar question hanging there, and it kind

86
00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:16,120
of leads us perfectly into exploring where else this idea

87
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,920
popped up maybe in less dramatic settings.

88
00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 2: Right, which takes us into the world of advertising and

89
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,240
consumer behavior, because hey, if you can influence soldiers, why

90
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:25,959
not shoppers.

91
00:04:26,319 --> 00:04:29,639
Speaker 1: Okay, this story is a classic. Nineteen fifty seven New Jersey.

92
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,000
People are just going to the movies, right, normal night out,

93
00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:36,480
but u for six weeks, totally unbeknownst to them, they

94
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:37,560
were part of this experiment.

95
00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:40,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, invisible advertising they called it. Later. There was this

96
00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:44,000
gadget hooked up to the projector and it flashed messages

97
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:49,040
things like eat more popcorn, drink Coca Cola, but incredibly fast,

98
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,959
like thirteen thousandth of the second whoa.

99
00:04:52,439 --> 00:04:54,959
Speaker 1: Way too fast to see consciously exactly.

100
00:04:55,079 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 2: The idea was it bypasses your conscious brain and goes

101
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,600
straight to the subconscious. And did it work apparently? Yeah,

102
00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:04,959
Over forty five thousand people were exposed, no consent, nothing,

103
00:05:05,399 --> 00:05:08,680
Popcorn sales shot of fifty eight percent. Coke seals got

104
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:09,560
a nice bump.

105
00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:12,240
Speaker 1: To fifty eight percent just from flashing words people couldn't

106
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,079
even see, That's.

107
00:05:12,879 --> 00:05:15,519
Speaker 2: What they claimed. And it wasn't just about selling snacks,

108
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,639
you know. It sort of revealed this disturbing possibility that

109
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,560
our choices even small ones could be hijacked without us knowing.

110
00:05:22,759 --> 00:05:24,839
Speaker 1: I bet people were not happy when they found out.

111
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,399
Speaker 2: Oh, massive outrage. People called it obscene, brainwashing, total violation,

112
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,920
and pretty quickly, but then about a year subliminal ads

113
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,279
were banned in theaters, on radio TV.

114
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 1: It really makes you think, though, Like you mentioned the

115
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,480
candy at the checkout earlier, I always grab something. Is

116
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,480
that me deciding or is it something else? We've all

117
00:05:44,519 --> 00:05:46,199
done it, haven't we? That little impulse?

118
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,279
Speaker 2: By right? How many of our choices are actually nudged?

119
00:05:49,399 --> 00:05:53,240
Speaker 1: So where's the line then, between say clever marketing like

120
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,680
the casino layouts you mentioned, or the candy placement which

121
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,399
feels a bit sneaky but maybe not like evil, and

122
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,839
those subliminal ads. Where do you draw that ethical line?

123
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,879
Speaker 2: That's the core question, isn't it. And look, the idea

124
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,920
that we're driven by hidden stuff wasn't brand new even

125
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,720
back then. You had Sigma Freud talking about the unconscious

126
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,160
mind way back right, and marketers picked up on it.

127
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,839
There was this guy, Ernest Dictor. He used Freudian ideas

128
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,399
like word association to figure out why people bought things,

129
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,879
not just what they bought, but the underlying motivation. Okay,

130
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,959
like what, well, you found out moms often bought candy

131
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,600
for their kids as like a reward for being good.

132
00:06:32,959 --> 00:06:35,560
So what did he suggest? Put the candy right by

133
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,199
the cash register, easy access when mom's feeling rewarding. And

134
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,759
I mean, look where it still is today, still there.

135
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 1: It's so simple but so effective. What about that Sonka

136
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:47,360
coffee example.

137
00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, classic Soncha used to run ads basically attacking

138
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,079
regular coffee. But you know, people like their coffee and

139
00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:55,000
they felt kind of insulted.

140
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't mess with my coffee exactly.

141
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,519
Speaker 2: So Sonka switched tactics, new slogan. Now you can drink

142
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,000
all the coffee you want, drink five ten cups a day,

143
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,800
as many as you like, basically removing the guilt the

144
00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:09,199
inhibition and boom sales went way up. It wasn't about

145
00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:11,959
the coffee itself, it was about changing the feeling around

146
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:12,439
drinking it.

147
00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 1: Just flipping the script. Amazing.

148
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:16,519
Speaker 2: And then you've got Bill Friedman, the casino design guy.

149
00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:20,360
Here's a former gambling addict, use his own experience. Think

150
00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:23,079
about casinos. Once you're in, can you easily see an

151
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,000
exit or a clock or even look outside?

152
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 1: No? Not really, that's all very enclosed, right.

153
00:07:28,879 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 2: It messes with your sense of time, you lose track.

154
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,879
Then there's the constant noise that dinging and whirrying, even

155
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,959
if it's empty, keeps you sort of buzzed. Add free

156
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,240
booze to lower inhibitions.

157
00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 1: And good luck finding the bathroom without passing fifty more

158
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,360
slot machines.

159
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 2: Precisely, no direct rats anywhere, especially not out. It's all

160
00:07:48,759 --> 00:07:52,199
designed very intentionally to keep you there, keep you playing,

161
00:07:52,399 --> 00:07:53,920
disrupt your normal decision making.

162
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,720
Speaker 1: Man, I'm going to be looking at supermarkets completely differently now.

163
00:07:56,759 --> 00:07:59,000
It makes you wonder how many places are designed like that.

164
00:07:59,079 --> 00:08:00,279
Speaker 2: It's definitely food for the thought.

165
00:08:00,519 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 1: So, okay, we've seen how subtle cues can shape buying habits.

166
00:08:04,759 --> 00:08:08,720
But what happens when someone sets out to deliberately engineer

167
00:08:08,959 --> 00:08:12,279
not just what we buy, but what we think our

168
00:08:12,279 --> 00:08:14,759
whole worldview? That feels like the next level.

169
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,759
Speaker 2: And that's exactly where Edward Brenees comes in. You really

170
00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:19,639
can't talk about this topic without talking about.

171
00:08:19,439 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 1: Brenees, Freud's nephew, right.

172
00:08:21,199 --> 00:08:24,240
Speaker 2: The very same He was a pioneer in pere public relations,

173
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,959
though honestly a lot of what he did walks a

174
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,079
very fine line with propaganda. He coined this term engineering

175
00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:29,639
of consent.

176
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 1: Engineering consent sounds a bit ominous, it.

177
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,600
Speaker 2: Kind of is. Yeah. He believed that if you understood

178
00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:40,159
the collective unconscious, the hidden desires and fears the masses,

179
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,440
you could basically sculpt public opinion, make people want things

180
00:08:44,519 --> 00:08:47,600
or believe things without them even realizing they were being persuaded.

181
00:08:47,799 --> 00:08:50,440
It wasn't just influence, it was constructing reality.

182
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,799
Speaker 1: Okay, give me an example. How did he do it?

183
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 2: His first really big one nineteen twenty nine New York

184
00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:01,320
City Easter Parade, Fifth Avenue. Huge crowds outwalks. This group

185
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,399
of young women, stylish debutants basically and the publicly light

186
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:06,639
up cigarettes.

187
00:09:06,159 --> 00:09:08,399
Speaker 1: Which is a huge deal back then, right, women didn't

188
00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:08,879
smoke in.

189
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 2: Public, absolute scandalous. But Burne's, who was working for the

190
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,799
American Tobacco Company, had orchestrated the whole thing. He didn't

191
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,200
just have them smoke, He framed it. He got the

192
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,120
press to call the cigarettes torches of freedom, linking smoking

193
00:09:21,159 --> 00:09:23,440
to women's liberation, independence, equality.

194
00:09:23,639 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: Wow, torches of freedom. That's quite a spin.

195
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,759
Speaker 2: And it worked like ganbusters. Demand for cigarettes among women

196
00:09:29,879 --> 00:09:34,360
just skyrocketed. They saw smoking as this symbol of being

197
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,600
modern and independent, and they had zero idea. It was

198
00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:39,600
all a manufactured stunt by Burnees.

199
00:09:39,799 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: That's incredible. He literally manufactured a cultural shift for profit.

200
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:44,440
Did he do other things like that?

201
00:09:44,639 --> 00:09:51,879
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, get this, He changed American breakfast permanently brekfast. Wow. Well,

202
00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:55,080
back in the early twenties, most Americans ate light breakfasts, toast,

203
00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:58,759
maybe some juice, coffee. So Burnees gets hired by the

204
00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,960
beachnut packing company. They want to sell more bacon. Okay,

205
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,080
So Brenez puts out this survey, claims he asked five

206
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,440
thousand doctors if a heavy breakfast was better than a

207
00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:11,320
light one. And guess what. Suddenly newspapers everywhere are reporting

208
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,240
that supposedly three out of four doctors recommend a hearty breakfast.

209
00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:16,960
And what's the picture of a hearty breakfast?

210
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,519
Speaker 1: They used, let me guess, bacon and eggs.

211
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,159
Speaker 2: Bingo, bacon and eggs. Now. Was there any real science,

212
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,320
any actual study, Nope, pure propaganda. If a doctor said

213
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,679
maybe bacon wasn't the healthiest choice, Brenese just didn't include

214
00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:31,159
their opinions.

215
00:10:31,399 --> 00:10:33,159
Speaker 1: Unbelievable, and people bought.

216
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 2: It, hook line and sinker bacon sales exploded, and even today,

217
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,720
what's the quid essential American breakfast bacon and eggs. Seventy

218
00:10:41,759 --> 00:10:44,519
percent of bacon is still eating at breakfast, all thanks

219
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,759
to Brene's basically inventing the tradition.

220
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,759
Speaker 1: That's staggering the power one person had to just reshape.

221
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 2: Culture like that, it really is. He proved he could

222
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,559
sway a whole country change habits, and that kind of success, well,

223
00:10:57,639 --> 00:11:01,000
it attracted even bigger clients with much higher stakes.

224
00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:02,960
Speaker 1: Okay, this sounds like it's going somewhere dark.

225
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,720
Speaker 2: It does because his next major client didn't just want

226
00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:09,000
him to sell bacon. They wanted him to help overthrow

227
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,159
a foreign government for the CIA.

228
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 1: WHOA, okay, how did that happen?

229
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,039
Speaker 2: Guatemala nineteen fifty one? If they liked to President Jacobyl Arbins,

230
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,759
he's popular pushing for social reforms. One big thing he

231
00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:24,919
does is pass Along fifty two. It says large landowners

232
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,159
have to give up their unused land to poor farmers.

233
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,519
They'd get compensation, but still sounds reasonable enough. Well not

234
00:11:30,519 --> 00:11:32,960
if you're the United Fruit Company. They were the biggest landowner,

235
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,159
biggest employer in Guatemala by far. They refused and they

236
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,360
hired Burne's.

237
00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:38,639
Speaker 1: Uh oh, so what did Burnees do?

238
00:11:38,919 --> 00:11:43,919
Speaker 2: He weaponized the Cold War. He just blanketed the American media, newspapers,

239
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,720
magazine's radio with stories painting President Arbans as a dangerous communist,

240
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,399
a Soviet puppet right on America's doorstep.

241
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:53,799
Speaker 1: Was he actually a communist?

242
00:11:53,919 --> 00:11:57,360
Speaker 2: Most historians say no. He had some communists in his government,

243
00:11:57,399 --> 00:12:00,000
but he wasn't one himself. It was mostly a calculated

244
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,759
smear campaign by Burne's playing on those intense anti communist

245
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:04,919
fears in the US.

246
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,480
Speaker 1: At the time, and this media campaign it worked.

247
00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 2: It created massive public fear in the States, which gave

248
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,720
the CIA the political cover they needed for Operation PB success.

249
00:12:14,799 --> 00:12:18,039
In nineteen fifty four, They funded and trained a rebel

250
00:12:18,039 --> 00:12:21,240
force basically mercenaries who went in and overthrew Arbus.

251
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,519
Speaker 1: Just like that, based on Brene's pr campaign.

252
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,559
Speaker 2: It was a key part of it, and the aftermath

253
00:12:25,879 --> 00:12:28,840
it was horrific. For the next forty years, Guatemala descended

254
00:12:28,879 --> 00:12:33,559
into civil war, brutal repression, death squads, massacres, just unbelievable

255
00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:37,679
terror and instability. Yeah estimates are around two hundred thousand

256
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,519
people dead or disappeared. Another two hundred thousand fled the country,

257
00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:45,200
a million displaced, and the UN Truth Commission later found

258
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,080
that ninety three percent of the human rights violations were

259
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,919
committed by the state forces, many trained by the CIA,

260
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,240
all stemming in part from a PR campaign to protective

261
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,519
fruit company's profits.

262
00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,240
Speaker 1: And you mentioned there were connections people in high place.

263
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, it's crucial. Key figures involved in the US

264
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,960
decision making. The US Ambassador to the UN, Henry Cabot Lodge,

265
00:13:07,159 --> 00:13:10,480
his brother John Lodge, Assistant Secretary of State, the Secretary

266
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:14,879
of State himself, John Foster Dulles, and his brother's CIA director, Allendahls.

267
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,679
They all had direct or indirect financial interests in the

268
00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:18,600
United Freud Company.

269
00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:21,960
Speaker 1: Wow, so it wasn't just abstract policy. There was personal

270
00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:25,679
financial motive tangled up in this devastating intervention fueled by

271
00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:26,919
Burnet's propaganda.

272
00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:29,559
Speaker 2: It's a really stark example of how he moved from

273
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,879
selling products to manipulating international politics with just catastrophic human consequences.

274
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,159
Speaker 1: It really blurs that line between PR and propaganda into nothing,

275
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:44,159
doesn't It Just pure ruthless manipulation In this this kind

276
00:13:44,159 --> 00:13:49,240
of thinking, influencing behavior, controlling outcomes. It leads us inevitably

277
00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:51,879
towards the military. Again, doesn't it to actually weaponizing the

278
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,159
unseen exactly.

279
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 2: Psychological operations or PsiOps have always been part of warfare,

280
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,399
trying to influence the enemy's morale their decisions using information

281
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,399
instead of just bullets, leaflets, radio broadcasts, that.

282
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:05,519
Speaker 1: Kind of centered stuff.

283
00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:08,519
Speaker 2: But they wanted more in Vietnam. Yeah, leaflets weren't always

284
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,440
cutting it against the Viet Cong. The army wanted something louder,

285
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:13,840
more direct.

286
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:14,919
Speaker 1: And to the squawk box.

287
00:14:14,759 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 2: Got it deployed around sixty seven to sixty eight. Basically,

288
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,519
these were massive, custom built speakers mounted on trucks, armor vehicles,

289
00:14:21,559 --> 00:14:25,120
even helicopters, and they could blast this ear splitting shriek

290
00:14:25,159 --> 00:14:27,120
one hundred and twenty decibels from like two and a

291
00:14:27,159 --> 00:14:27,919
half miles away.

292
00:14:28,039 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 1: One hundred and twenty decibel that's incredibly loud, like physically painful, right.

293
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, anything over eighty five daty bee can cause

294
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,559
hearing damage. This was designed to overwhelm Viet Cong soldiers.

295
00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:42,960
Caught in the beam would suffer intense pain, nausea, definitely

296
00:14:43,039 --> 00:14:46,240
permanent hearing loss, confusion, sheer distress.

297
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 1: Did it work in terms of stopping them?

298
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,159
Speaker 2: The estimates are it led to about thirty thousand surrenders.

299
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,519
So effective in a brutal way, but it had one

300
00:14:54,559 --> 00:14:55,320
big drawback.

301
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,679
Speaker 1: You could hear it coming a mile away, exactly.

302
00:14:57,759 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 2: It wasn't subtle. The military wanted something the enemy detect

303
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,759
couldn't see, couldn't hear. Sound waves weren't the answer, but

304
00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:06,399
maybe electromagnetic waves could be.

305
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 1: Okay, now we're getting into the really weird science part.

306
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where it starts to feel like sci fi,

307
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,480
but it's based on real research. Nineteen sixty one, this biophysicist,

308
00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:19,480
Alan Frey makes this accidental discovery. He finds that specific

309
00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,679
frequencies of microwaves think of them like very specific radio

310
00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:26,360
channels between twenty and three thousand megahertz could cause people

311
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,000
to hear sounds, clicks, buzzes, knocking sounds, but hear them

312
00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:31,120
inside their own.

313
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 1: Heads, inside their heads, not through their ears.

314
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 2: Nope, even in sound proof shielded rooms. It became known

315
00:15:37,639 --> 00:15:41,240
as the Fray effect. He could essentially beam sounds directly

316
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,679
into someone's brain. Ye, no implants, no speakers needed.

317
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,639
Speaker 1: Okay, that is mind blowing. What did they do with

318
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,000
that discovery.

319
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,559
Speaker 2: Well, the possibilities were kind of endless and frankly pretty disturbing.

320
00:15:53,919 --> 00:15:56,960
Scientists used it to train animals, but then the CIA

321
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,440
got interested. They started asking Frey, could this technology effect, say,

322
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,240
a human heart rate? Could you maybe induce a heart

323
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,039
attack remotely?

324
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,639
Speaker 1: Seriously they asked that.

325
00:16:06,759 --> 00:16:09,639
Speaker 2: According to Frey, yes, he did experiments on frog hearts

326
00:16:09,879 --> 00:16:13,799
found he could speed them up just with remote radiation. Meanwhile,

327
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,320
Soviet researchers were doing hundreds of experiments by nineteen seventy

328
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,600
two looking at how microwaves affected human behavior. They found

329
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,559
both lethal and non lethal effects. Apparently they were also

330
00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:26,960
accidentally cooking their subjects with micro thermal effects, cooking them.

331
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's horrifying, it is.

332
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,159
Speaker 2: But the research didn't stop. There's this guy, JF. Schappitz,

333
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,679
described as a trusted black ops scientist for the Department

334
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,200
of Defense. He took phrase work further. He figured out

335
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,120
how to use low power microwaves to broadcast actual commands

336
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,679
words into subject's minds.

337
00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:46,799
Speaker 1: Now they would hear voices, they.

338
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 2: Would hear words yeah inside their head. And then he

339
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,360
went even further. He started programming subconscious.

340
00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 1: Actions, programming actions like what.

341
00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 2: There's this one documented experiment. A subject is in the

342
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,840
lab being exposed to this microwave Radiationuddenly he gets up,

343
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,159
leaves the lab, goes out, comes back a bit later

344
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,880
with canna soda. When asked why, he just says, I

345
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,079
felt thirsty. Schappitz claimed he had beamed the subconscious suggestion

346
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,119
of thirst into the guy's mind, like microwave hypnosis.

347
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 1: That is deeply creepy hypnosis via radio waves.

348
00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 2: But you know, regular hypnosis doesn't work on everybody. The

349
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:23,759
military wanted something more reliable, more universal. So four years later,

350
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,200
nineteen eighty, another DoD scientist, doctor Elden Bird, starts looking

351
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,880
at even shorter frequencies. He wanted to weaponize brain waves themselves.

352
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: Weaponize brain waves. How does that even work?

353
00:17:34,319 --> 00:17:39,160
Speaker 2: Well? Our brains run on electrical signals, right, These create patterns, rhythms.

354
00:17:39,599 --> 00:17:42,359
Those are brain waves. You have different ones for different states.

355
00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:46,279
Beta waves when you're alert and problem solving, Alpha when

356
00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:49,920
you're relaxed, Theta when your drowsy, you're lightly sleeping, Delta

357
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:50,680
in deep sleep.

358
00:17:50,839 --> 00:17:52,039
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I've heard of those.

359
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 2: So Bird figured out how to sync up external electromagnetic

360
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,799
waves with these internal brainwave patterns, like tuning a radio

361
00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:03,240
time the brain's channel. By doing that, he could subtly

362
00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:06,960
influence the brain's chemistry, trigger the release of certain chemicals

363
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,039
that regulate behavior.

364
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,160
Speaker 1: And what could he do with that?

365
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 2: In animal tests? He could induce a state of stupor

366
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,920
or make them feel sick like they have the flu,

367
00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:19,119
cause nausea. He called it kind of a stun gun effect,

368
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:19,960
but invisible.

369
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 1: So he could make someone feel sick or daze just

370
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,240
by beaming something at them.

371
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 2: That was the potentially. Yeah, his project got officially shut down,

372
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,359
but Bird himself suspected it just went deeper into black ops.

373
00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:30,160
Speaker 1: And was he right?

374
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,279
Speaker 2: Seems likely because a nineteen eighty two US Air Force

375
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:37,880
report explicitly warned this is a quote that impressed electromagnetic

376
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,640
fields are capable of directing behavior. It even mentioned that

377
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,359
just one hundred millionams directed through the heart could kill

378
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,480
someone chilling. And then the Air Force hired another scientist,

379
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:52,680
doctor Ross eighty, to basically reaponize Bird's research. Eighty first

380
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:55,720
used implants, but then managed to do it remotely. He

381
00:18:55,759 --> 00:18:59,400
apparently built up this whole library of frequency specific electromagnetic

382
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,440
signals to specific mental states, physical effects, emotions.

383
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 1: A library of emotions.

384
00:19:04,599 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 2: Essentially, Yeah, he could reportedly mapulate animal behavior and emotions

385
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,319
almost at will. And he even managed to induce sleep

386
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,480
in human subjects phato waves just by surrounding their head

387
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,119
with an electromagnetic field tuned to that specific frequency.

388
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,599
Speaker 1: Wow. So they went from beaming clicks to words to

389
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:25,000
actual emotional states and sleep. The escalation is incredible.

390
00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:28,519
Speaker 2: It represents this huge leap, doesn't it from influencing conscious

391
00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:32,839
perception to directly manipulating the brain's fundamental operating system.

392
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,880
Speaker 1: It really does. It feels like we've crossed some major

393
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,079
threshold there, and it begs the question did this technology

394
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,319
ever get fully developed packaged?

395
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,599
Speaker 2: Well, this is where it gets really interesting and maybe

396
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,960
a little controversial, because there is, in fact a US

397
00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:51,119
patent for a device that sounds remarkably like what we've

398
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,880
been discussing. A patent for real YEP Patent number five million,

399
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,119
one hundred and fifty nine thousand, seven hundred and three

400
00:19:57,759 --> 00:20:01,039
issued to a company called Silent Sounds in operated. It's

401
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:03,559
for a silent subliminal presentation system.

402
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 1: Okay, break that down. What does it supposedly do?

403
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,519
Speaker 2: The full schematics are classified by the government, but the

404
00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:11,480
patent description outlines a system that can map the brain's

405
00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:15,960
electrical activity corresponding to specific emotions, like it finds the

406
00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:20,400
unique signature for fear or hopelessness or calm. Okay, then

407
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:24,759
it can amplify or even clone that specific brain wave pattern.

408
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,240
And here's the kicker, Using something called silent sound spread

409
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:32,119
spectrum technology, they call it SSS or SQUAD. It embeds

410
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,640
that cloned emotional frequency inaudibly onto a regular audio broadcast

411
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,759
like a radio station or a TV signal.

412
00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:40,640
Speaker 1: Wait inaudibly, so you wouldn't hear it.

413
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 2: Completely inaudible and undetectable by your conscious mind. It just

414
00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:48,319
hitches a ride on the normal sound waves. The idea

415
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,279
is this silent signal synchronizes with your brain waves and

416
00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:52,519
triggers the target emotion.

417
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 1: So you could be listening to music on the radio

418
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,400
and without knowing it, also be receiving a signal designed

419
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,920
to make you feel despair or fear.

420
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 2: That's the capability described in the patent. Now, the patent

421
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,200
itself insists it's not designed as a weapon, but you

422
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,839
can see how easily it could be, right, especially being

423
00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:10,200
subliminal and undetectable.

424
00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that sounds incredibly powerful and frankly terrifying. Has anyone

425
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,880
ever claimed it was actually used.

426
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,039
Speaker 2: This is where we connect back to the very beginning

427
00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:21,279
of our conversation, because in nineteen ninety six, the president

428
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:24,759
of Silent Sounds, Inc. The company holding the patent, apparently

429
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,400
let slip in a public statement he boasted that their

430
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,000
system quote was used throughout Operation Desert Storm quite successfully.

431
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 1: Desert Storm so back in I Rock nineteen ninety one.

432
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 2: Exactly, which implies that the US military did have a

433
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,599
form of subliminal mind control technology and deployed it during

434
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,319
that conflict.

435
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: So the story about COFFG, the FM transmitter.

436
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 2: It suddenly clicks into place, doesn't it. If this technology

437
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,759
existed and was used, then the secret weapon in COFFG

438
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,480
likely wasn't just broadcasting normal radio. It was embedding a

439
00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:00,599
silent SSSS signal. And what emotion would be most useful

440
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,079
to induce in enemy.

441
00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:06,319
Speaker 1: Soldiers hopelessness, despair, something to make them lose the will

442
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:06,960
to fight.

443
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,559
Speaker 2: Precisely, which would explain those mass surrenders that so baffled

444
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,519
Saddam Hussein. His soldiers weren't cowardly, their brains were potentially

445
00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:17,960
being subtly nudged towards giving up, and that Iraqi attack

446
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,480
on Kafchi wasn't just hitting a radio tower, It was

447
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:22,680
a mission to destroy this invisible weapon.

448
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,759
Speaker 1: It pieces together in a really chilling way. But what's

449
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:28,240
the official line on this? Does the government admit any

450
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:28,599
of it? Oh?

451
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,279
Speaker 2: Absolutely not Officially, US government and military officials deny flat

452
00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:35,319
out that any such system exists or was ever used.

453
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,559
They dismiss it all as science fiction, conspiracy theory.

454
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,839
Speaker 1: But the patent exists, the company president said, it.

455
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: Was used exactly. And then there are other coincidences, yeah,

456
00:22:46,039 --> 00:22:49,480
or maybe not coincidences. For instance, just one day after

457
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:52,160
the Gulf War cease fire in March nineteen ninety one,

458
00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:56,559
this huge popular uprising against Saddam Hussein breaks out in Bosra,

459
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,240
spreads across southern Iraq.

460
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember hearing about that. It was rutally crushed,

461
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:01,799
wasn't it horrifically?

462
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: Maybe one hundred thousand iraqis killed. But what encouraged that revolt?

463
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,079
A key factor was a radio station called the Voice

464
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,359
of Free Iraq, broadcasting messages urging people to rise up.

465
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:15,839
And guess who was running that radio station? Let me

466
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,680
guess the CIA, operated by the CIA, broadcasting from a

467
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,519
small fown in Saudi Arabia. Now were they just using

468
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:26,960
persuasive words, or were they perhaps also employing other methods

469
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:29,519
using that same SSS technology tested in Kovci.

470
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: Maybe so KAFG might have been a test run for

471
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,079
a larger psychological operation during the uprising. That's a provocative thought.

472
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,799
Speaker 2: It raises questions, doesn't it. Was it all just coincidence

473
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,720
or was this subliminal technology deployed more widely than just

474
00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:44,480
that one incident? And then you had one more piece.

475
00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,920
The very next year, nineteen ninety two, construction begins on

476
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,279
the HARP facility up in Fairbanks, Alaska.

477
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,519
Speaker 1: HARP. I've heard of that controversial project.

478
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 2: Built by DARPA, the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency. It's

479
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,920
essentially a massive, high powered array of antime is designed

480
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,359
to send powerful electromagnetic pulses up into the ionosphere, the

481
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,880
upper layer of the atmosphere, pulses that can potentially be

482
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,400
bounced back down to affect communications whether or maybe something

483
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,279
else anywhere in the world.

484
00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: So you have the development of brain wave manipulation tech,

485
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:20,200
a patent for deploying it silently claims it was used

486
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,640
in more suspicious events surrounding its alleged use, and then

487
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,960
the construction of a giant global electromagnetic transmitter. It certainly

488
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,160
makes you think, doesn't it.

489
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 2: It encourages critical thinking for sure. You look at the

490
00:24:31,759 --> 00:24:36,279
pattern the research goals, the patented technology, the reported outcomes,

491
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:39,519
the denials, the timing of related projects. It paints a

492
00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:41,160
pretty compelling, if disturbing picture.

493
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,319
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so we've really covered some ground today. We

494
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,599
started with like sneaky popcorn ads in the fifties, right, it.

495
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:50,279
Speaker 2: Seemed almost quaint in retrospect.

496
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: Then moved through the deliberate engineering of public opinion by

497
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,559
guys like Burnet's changing how people ate breakfast or viewed smoking.

498
00:24:57,319 --> 00:24:58,759
Speaker 2: Shaping culture itself.

499
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: And then plunged into the really heavy stuff, the sunning weapons,

500
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:08,279
the microwave hearing effect, weaponizing brain waves, inducing emotions, right.

501
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,279
Speaker 2: Up to patented technology allegedly used in actual warfare to

502
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,480
induce hopelessness.

503
00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:16,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. This whole idea of invisible influence, it's not just

504
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,039
fringe theory, is it. There's a surprisingly deep history, documented research,

505
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,920
actual patents, attempts to control, persuade, compel people without them

506
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:28,519
even knowing.

507
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:31,079
Speaker 2: It seems that way, and it leaves us with some

508
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,559
pretty big questions, especially now in this world just drowning

509
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:38,279
in information, with technology getting more sophisticated every single day,

510
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,119
If the human mind really can be influenced below the

511
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,480
level of awareness, what does that mean?

512
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: What does it mean for like our sense of free will?

513
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,240
Are my thoughts always my own?

514
00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:50,279
Speaker 2: Exactly? And how much more vigilant do we need to be?

515
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:54,200
How do we even tell the difference between normal persuasion,

516
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,359
maybe clever marketing, and this kind of hidden manipulation. After

517
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,759
hearing all this today was the one thing that really

518
00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:02,599
stands out to you. What are you going to be

519
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:03,240
thinking about