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Sign up now at 22 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:01.079 Chumba sino dot com. 23 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:04.239 Don't work necessary dapod obverbe by Lost Terms Conditions eighteen plus. 24 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.879 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 25 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.000 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:24.120 written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker VTK 27 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:28.840 every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 28 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:33.120 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 29 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.560 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:50.359 Good evening in September of nineteen ninety, in the Cleveland 31 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:54.280 suburb of Shaker Heights, sixteen year old Lisa Pruett, a 32 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.200 poetry lover and member of a church youth group, was 33 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:00.000 on her way to a midnight tryst with her boyfriend 34 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.200 when she was viciously stabbed to death only thirty feet 35 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:07.200 from the boy's home. The murder cast a palpable gloom 36 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:11.960 over the upscale community and sparked accusations, theories, and rumors 37 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.879 among Lisa's friends and peers. Together, they wove a damning 38 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:19.919 narrative that circled back to a likely suspect, weird high 39 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.599 school outcast Kevin Young. Without a shred of evidence, the 40 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.000 teen was arrested, charged and tried for the crime. His 41 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.560 eventual acquittal didn't squelch the anger and outrage among those 42 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:34.199 who believed that Kevin fell away with murder. With a 43 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:40.039 fresh perspective and painstaking research called from police files, sport records, transcripts, 44 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:45.120 uncollected evidence, and new interviews, James Renner reconstructs the events 45 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.240 leading up to and following that heartbreaking night. What emerges 46 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:53.199 is a portrait of a community seething with dark undercurrents, 47 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.879 its single minded authorities, protective status conscious parents, and the 48 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:02.840 deeply peer pressured teens within Lisa's circle who had the 49 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.680 capacity for such unchecked violence. What monsters still lurk in 50 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:11.599 the dark After more than thirty years, Questions like these 51 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:14.960 continue to fester among the community of Shaker Heights, Ohio, 52 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:21.039 still deeply scarred by wounds that remain hidden, unspoken, and unhealed. 53 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.680 The book that we're featuring this evening is Little Crazy Children, 54 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:30.080 a true crime tragedy of lost innocence, with my special guest, 55 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.879 investigative journalist and author, James Renner. Welcome back to the 56 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:38.360 program and thank you very much for this interview. James Renner, Hey. 57 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:41.039 Thanks so much for having me. I'm happy to be back. 58 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:45.280 Thank you so much and congratulations on this truly extraordinary book. 59 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:46.240 Thank you very much. 60 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:51.800 Let's get to discussing, of course, Shaker Heights, Ohio. You say, 61 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.719 to the east of Cleveland is a town, Shaker Heights, 62 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:56.919 with its own utopia. 63 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:01.280 Shaker Heights. It's a weird little community unity on the 64 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:06.000 east side of Cleveland. It's affluent, but it's located just 65 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.400 past the ghetto, just past the rough part of Cleveland. 66 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.800 You find this wonderful little neighborhood called Shaker Heights, and 67 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:18.759 it's unlike any other. It was actually planned and plotted 68 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:24.079 out by a pair of eccentric brothers named the Van 69 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:29.240 Swarigans about one hundred years ago, and they were local businessmen. 70 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.480 They actually built Terminal Tower, which gives Cleveland its iconic look, 71 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:39.199 and they were looking to build a new community outside 72 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:43.240 of Cleveland for the elite who could have their families 73 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.120 out there. And at the time the land was owned 74 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.600 by the Shakers, the religious group the Shakers, which are 75 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:57.639 an interesting subset religion in that they believe in abstinence completely. 76 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.800 So you'll have these little communities of Shakers that pop up, 77 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:04.319 but they don't last long, right, because they don't reproduce 78 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:08.319 and so the Van Swagens saw that the Shakers were 79 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:10.360 kind of on their way out, and they offered to 80 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:13.879 buy that whole little community. And that's why it's called 81 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:16.560 Shaker Heights. And it was kind of like, you know, 82 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:20.680 what what Walt Disney had planned for his utopias done 83 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.720 in like near Disney World in Florida, a planned community 84 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:28.680 that the streets don't they kind of meander around these 85 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:33.160 these nice ovals. All the houses have really large lawns. 86 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:35.959 It's just a it's a beautiful little place. But it's 87 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:39.040 because of that, it's it's a little weird too. And 88 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:43.519 you know, the community prides themselves in integration. They you know, 89 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:47.839 even the sons and daughters of these elite families of 90 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:52.240 lawyers and doctors and politicians, they would send there, at 91 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:55.240 least in the nineties when this story takes place, they 92 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.920 would send their kids to the public school, which was 93 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.279 which was integrated. So you know, they would give loans 94 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.519 to African American families to move into certain places of 95 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:09.279 the town. And that was really kind of a tricky 96 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:14.519 way of keeping the numbers of African American families in 97 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.199 chech So it looked like integration, but really it was 98 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.480 a plan to make it not really as integrated as 99 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.120 it could have been. So there's Shaker Heights. It's this 100 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:28.480 people might remember the setting from that popular book that 101 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.800 came out a few years ago, Little Fires Everywhere, by 102 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.560 Celeste Ing. She was actually a student of Shaker Heights 103 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.319 High Who and she was a few years younger than 104 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:40.879 Lisa Prewit. Lisa Prewit, the young woman who was murdered, 105 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:45.759 who the story centers around, and everything that came after it. 106 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.120 She was sixteen years old and the day of her murder, 107 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:52.720 she had just gotten her driver's license. She was very excited. 108 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.120 She was madly in love at the time with a 109 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:00.560 young man named Dan Dreyfert. Dan was kind of a 110 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:04.759 troubled kid. He was a talented musician. He already it 111 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.079 was playing with a band of his playing local gigs, 112 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.360 and had some issues and was in a psychiatric ward 113 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.000 for about a month and actually was released the day 114 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:21.040 that Lisa was murdered, and they'd been away for so long, 115 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.720 they made plans for Lisa to sneak out of her 116 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:27.000 house that night and ride her bike over to Dan's house, 117 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:28.920 and that's that's how she ends up there. 118 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:33.360 Let's talk about September thirteenth, nineteen ninety. You write that 119 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.000 there's an officer Edward Curtin and he gets a call 120 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:45.439 from Dan Dreyford. And so what does the Dan Dreyford 121 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.199 say when the police arrive? What's the story he has 122 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:48.560 to tell? 123 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.160 Yeah, so the police get a call about twelve thirty. 124 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:54.839 They get a number of calls, actually neighbors and houses 125 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.480 around the corner of Lee and South Woodland, which is 126 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:01.120 a major intersection in Checker Heights, and that's Dan's family 127 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.839 owns a mansion basically on that corner. A number of 128 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:08.160 people call the police and say they heard a woman screaming, 129 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:12.639 and the police respond. They also they respond at first 130 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:14.759 and don't see anything, and then they kind of go 131 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.399 back to their patrols. And then Dan Dreyford calls them 132 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:20.279 and says, hey, look, my girlfriend was supposed to come 133 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.360 over and meet with me, but she never showed and 134 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:27.399 I think she might be the woman who was screaming. 135 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.800 And so the officers go to Dan's house and he's 136 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.440 standing outside. Dan is sixteen at the time. He doesn't 137 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:38.840 at this point doesn't want his parents to know about 138 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:40.960 any of this, so he kind of meets the police 139 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:45.879 outside and takes them over to where he said he 140 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:50.039 found Lisa's bike and it's popped up against the bushes, 141 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:54.559 just off the sidewalk, and the police say, okay, why 142 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.279 don't you go back in the house. We'll come get you. 143 00:08:57.600 --> 00:08:59.559 They do a sweep of the neighborhood, they walk around 144 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.320 for a while, they get this. Actually an important part 145 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:05.080 of the story is they have another officer shows up 146 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.919 with a canine unit dog that's really good. It's sniffing 147 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:12.120 out since and takes the dog over to the bike, 148 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:16.679 picks up a cent and takes the officers around the 149 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.600 block to the road behind Lee, which is called Sedgwick, 150 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.039 and then kind of loses the scent and they come 151 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:28.840 back through the backyard of the Dreyford's neighbors and at 152 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.639 the corner of their backyard, at the edge of Dreyford's property, 153 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.559 they find Lisa's body and she's just died. She's been 154 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:42.360 stabbed I think like nineteen twenty times. And they find 155 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.720 her half clothed. Her pants are down around one leg 156 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.240 and her shirt has been pushed up. And that's basically 157 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:51.919 when the story begins. 158 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.759 Dan Dreyford says some in retrospector at least at the 159 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:01.200 time for police some suspicious statements regarding Yeah. 160 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.519 The first thing he tells them is, hey, my fingerprints 161 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:07.080 are probably on this, which at that point, as far 162 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.399 as he's told police, he doesn't know what happened to Lisa. 163 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.080 He tells them he believes she might have been abducted 164 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:16.080 or taken, So it's a weird thing to say, you know. 165 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:18.799 He's aware that that bike might be part of a 166 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.320 crime scene, and he's concerned that his fingerprints might be 167 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.320 on it. He tells them the fingerprints are on it 168 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.559 because he moved the bike because he wasn't sure it 169 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.320 was Lisa's at first. He also gives a couple different 170 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.039 stories about whether or not his parents knew that Lisa 171 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:36.240 was coming over, you know, he tells dispatch one thing, 172 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:39.440 he tells the police another. Eventually they wake up, his 173 00:10:40.279 --> 00:10:43.440 father comes out and they talk to his parents as well. 174 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.480 Eventually they all end up at the police station. Once 175 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:49.960 Lisa's body is found and Dan is interviewed that night. 176 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:55.360 His father's interviewed the next morning, and the investigation begins 177 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.159 in earnest the next day. 178 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.919 Now police go to Gary Pruett, Lisa Prewitt's father. You 179 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:05.519 write about that reaction and what Gary has to say 180 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:06.480 and the family reaction. 181 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.279 Yeah, it's very sad all around for the Pruits. They 182 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.679 had three children, Lisa's younger brother I think it was 183 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:16.399 a younger brother. She had a brother who died as 184 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.600 a child, and there was I think health complications in 185 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.039 that instance. So they had already lost one kid. And 186 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.720 Lisa was a very good kid as far as I found. 187 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:31.120 She was just just a really smart, energetic, you know, 188 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.960 just an empathetic young woman. And the police, of course, 189 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:38.080 they once they found her body, they drove out to 190 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:41.120 the Pruitz and woke up the parents and her father, 191 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:42.919 Gary came down and they said, hey, do you know 192 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:47.120 where your daughter is? And he said, oh, she's upstairs sleeping, 193 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:50.240 and they said, please go check, and he went upstairs 194 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.440 and found that she was not there, that her bed 195 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.320 was empty, and then they discovered that her bike was missing, 196 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.440 and so then the police were pretty sure that that's, 197 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.519 you know, the body they found was in fact Lisa 198 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.799 at that time, and then she was identified shortly thereafter, 199 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:08.799 and it was just devastating for the Pruits. 200 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.000 Now let's get back to Dan Dreyfert and his father 201 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:14.639 as well. That you say, they ended up at the 202 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:17.919 station for questioning. Who was the detective in charge. 203 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.159 The detective in charge was a man named Thomas Gray, 204 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:27.080 and he just happened to be the detective that got 205 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:30.759 the case. I think it was his turn. He was 206 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:34.080 the detective on duty at the time. However it happened 207 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:38.480 it became his case, which in hindsight was unlucky. It 208 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:42.039 was his first case of that magnitude, and he hadn't 209 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.919 been a police officer for too long. And the reason 210 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:48.440 he became a police officer, he told them, was because 211 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.639 it paid better than being a line cook. 212 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:51.279 You know. 213 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:55.200 He had no lifelong aspiration to the police officer or 214 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:59.919 even a detective. He worked at Popeye's Chicken in Louisiana 215 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:02.399 for a while and worked restaurant chops in the Cleveland 216 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:07.080 so kind of a weird background. And he became his case, 217 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:13.120 and he started investigating with another officer, another detective, but 218 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:17.720 he was really the main force behind it, and he's 219 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:21.399 the one that interviewed Dan Dreyford that night and got 220 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:23.559 his statement on the record. 221 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:23.879 There. 222 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:26.840 Now, in terms of cooperation, the father and the son 223 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:31.679 laurering up before this interview, were they cooperative? And what 224 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:34.960 did Tom Gray elicit in terms of a statement from 225 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:35.759 Dan Dryford. 226 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.440 It really worked in their favor, both Dan Dreyford and 227 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:44.200 his dad, I think his dad's names Robert. They were 228 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:49.120 very cooperative with police and they allowed Dan to be questioned. 229 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.440 Dan gave a very lengthy statement, and then his father 230 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:54.879 did too, and then eventually his mother. So they were 231 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.039 very cooperative with police, which went a long way with 232 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.960 the whole thing. I think it's what made Detective Gray 233 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.799 feel that it wasn't Dan that was involved in this murder. So, 234 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:06.720 you know, he he got a lot out of Dan 235 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.279 that night. You know, he'd come to find out that 236 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.000 Dan kept a lot from him, But he basically got 237 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.480 a timeline of that day. You know, Dan talks about 238 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.639 getting out of the hospital where his father had had 239 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.799 him committed. His father worked at Cleveland Clinic and had 240 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:23.519 his son committed to the same hospital where he worked, 241 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.799 and he had been there for about a month. That day, 242 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.200 he got out around lunchtime, went to school surprisedly, so 243 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.320 she was very happy to see him. Then he hung 244 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.879 out with some friends and then Lisa came over to 245 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.320 his house. Her father brought her over. I think it 246 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:40.159 was like seven pm that night, sometime around there, to 247 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.879 visit real quickly before her flute lesson. And she was 248 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:47.639 excited because she had just gotten her driver's license that day, 249 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.039 and so she was only at the Dreyferts. I think 250 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.120 for you know, ten fifteen minutes, and you know they 251 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:56.600 I think they kissed and you know, got caught up. 252 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.240 And that's basically when they made plans. She told him 253 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:02.519 that she would sneak out and ride her bike over 254 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.200 to his house about twelve thirty. So then she leaves 255 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.120 with her father and goes home, has a nice dinner, 256 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.279 and in fact, she does sneak out. Now. Dan then 257 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.679 tells the police, oh, I forgot she was coming over, 258 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.279 which anybody who's been a teenage boy knows how ridiculous 259 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.519 that that sounds. You've been away from your girlfriend for 260 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.759 a month, and you're telling me that you forgot that 261 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:28.919 she's going to sneak out and meet up with you 262 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:31.559 that night. It doesn't quite work. And then he says 263 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.600 he was in his room when he heard the screaming. 264 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:36.480 He opened the window, the screaming continued. Then he woke 265 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.720 up as his dad was already kind of awake because 266 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.200 he heard the screams too, and his father sent him 267 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.039 out to see what it was, and he says he 268 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.120 went out, didn't see anything, so he came back in 269 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.399 told his dad, you know, he didn't see anything, and 270 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.879 then he's like, oh, and that's when I remember that 271 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:56.639 she was coming over. So after his father went back 272 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.240 to sleep, he snuck out at the house and he 273 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.720 says that's when he found her bike and called the police. 274 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.399 Now tell us about Dan Dreyford, and he talks about 275 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.960 all his friends that he had invited over to his 276 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:12.000 home earlier in the evening and what they were I 277 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.080 guess planning to do, but also that he had a 278 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.679 friend named Tex Workman, and Tex Workman had talked to 279 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.039 a person named Kevin Young that night. Let's talk about 280 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.720 Dan Dreyford's story about what went on that night at 281 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:27.480 the at the coffee shop. 282 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.799 Yeah. Sure, So every time the police spoke with Dan, 283 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.080 he would reveal a little bit more about that day. 284 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.720 And because the first time he spoke with him, he 285 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.720 didn't he wasn't complete about what happened that day. So, 286 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:41.440 like I said, he had been in the hospital for 287 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:43.960 a month and Lisa wasn't the only one. That's supposed 288 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.200 to come over that night and stink out of their house. 289 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:49.720 He called a number of his friends and invited them over, 290 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.919 and he had planned to have what's called a horobo party. 291 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.519 Back in the nineties, kids who wanted to get high 292 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.360 but couldn't get the illegal stuff would go to the 293 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.799 corner store and buy powerful cough medicine like robotussin, So 294 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.319 that's why they called it robo And if you drank 295 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.359 more than like half a bottle of robotussin with the 296 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.000 with the big ingredients in it, they it would make 297 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.160 you trip for a little while. So that's what Dan 298 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:20.880 was really into. So he has some friends. He actually 299 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:22.920 had written to Lisa and asked her to pick up 300 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.519 some robotussin formed. So yeah, he invited at least three 301 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.839 or four of his friends and then tells the police 302 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:32.480 that each and every one of them called him later 303 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.240 that night and said they weren't going to come over, 304 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:38.400 so which strikes me as a little odd too. And 305 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.680 one point of the day, this man, a young man, 306 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.440 teenage boy comes over to Dan's house to visit with him. 307 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.200 And this man is called this guy is called Tex Workmen. 308 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:55.079 You know, they called him. Texts and Tex is dating 309 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.960 at the time. Dan's older sister, Debbie Nebbe, though is 310 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.799 away at college. She goes to she was going to 311 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:05.519 ou which is about three hours away from Shaker Heights, 312 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.000 and the text comes over to visit with Dan. Dan says, hey, 313 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.200 could you run out get some cigarettes. You can keep 314 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.640 the change or vice versa. Text wanted some cigarettes and 315 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.720 was going to bring back change for Danny. In any event, 316 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.200 Text goes to get cigarettes and he already knows Dan 317 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.640 has told him that Lisa is sneaking out of the 318 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.720 house to come visit him that night and says, Hey, 319 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:27.880 I've got some other people coming over. If you want 320 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.279 to hang too, you're welcome to be at this party 321 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.079 with us. So Tex goes out to Shaker Square to 322 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:37.799 pick up some cigarettes and while he's there, and that's 323 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.400 just a couple miles from Dan's house, so he takes 324 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.480 Dan's bike rides his bike over to Shaker Square. He 325 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.680 also visits the coffee shop there in the coffee shops 326 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:51.400 called Arabica, and he stops in and bumps into another 327 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.359 mutual friend of theirs, young man named Kevin Young. Kevin 328 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:57.759 Young's a little bit older, he had just graduated high 329 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:01.920 school and was starting his freshman year at Ohio State University. 330 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.799 Who's going to start that next Monday? So this is 331 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.480 the Thursday before that, and so Tex hangs out with 332 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.640 Kevin and says, hey, Kevin, you know, Lisa's sneaking out 333 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.839 of her house and going to hook up with Dan tonight. 334 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.079 And Kevin knew him both and was kind of mad 335 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.039 at Dan at the time, so said some unsavory things 336 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.160 and I don't know, call him a jerk or something. 337 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:25.000 And so now Kevin has this knowledge, right, so from tech, 338 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:27.880 you know, it's that telephone game. More and more people 339 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:30.680 are aware that Lisa's sneaking out of her house. So 340 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.359 that becomes important because the day after the murder, a 341 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:39.160 number of Dan's friends go to the police and say, 342 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:41.960 it can't be our friend. He's such a good guy. 343 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:43.960 And the police are like, well, who do you think 344 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:48.319 could possibly do something like this? And everybody said, well, 345 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.640 it's got to be the weird kid in school, Kevin Young. 346 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.599 You know, he wears black and listens to Metallica and 347 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:57.279 plays D and D And Kevin was a bit of 348 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:01.039 a problem. Hid you know this This happened in nineteen 349 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:04.960 ninety I think if this were to happen today, pretty 350 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:09.039 obvious to me that Kevin would have been on the spectrum, 351 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.319 on the autism spectrum somewhere. He had a hard time 352 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:16.920 relating to his peers. He had these loud outbursts in 353 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:21.559 public and would cause these little scenes. So I think 354 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.599 that's what was going on with him. I'm no psychiatrist, 355 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:27.480 but i do have a son who's on the spectrum, 356 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.759 so I'm very aware of the way that you know, 357 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.720 people on the spectrum behave in act. So just strikes 358 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.359 me that that's what it was. So in any event, 359 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.200 the friends say, you got to look into Kevin Young. 360 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.000 And then when they found out that Kevin had spoken 361 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.599 to texts and would have had knowledge that Lisa was 362 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:49.279 stinking out, they were like, oh wow, this is that. 363 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.880 They thought that that was really good circumstantial evidence, and 364 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.319 at some point Detective Gray and his colleagues became become 365 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.279 convinced that it is Kevin Young, that it had to 366 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.920 be Kevin Young, and they don't really look at any 367 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.480 suspects after that. But to this day, there's no physical 368 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.839 evidence that has ever linked Kevin to that crime scene 369 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.599 or to Lisa, and in fact, all the circumstantial evidence 370 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.039 they have basically rules Kevin Young out as a suspect, 371 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:20.680 but that didn't keep him keep them from going after him. 372 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:25.559 Kevin was eventually charged with Lisa's murder, indicted, and he 373 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.039 went to trial in the summer of nineteen ninety three. 374 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.200 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a 375 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:31.599 second for these messages. 376 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:36.279 Okay, round two, Name something that's not boring. 377 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.079 Laundry, a book club, computer solitaire. 378 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:48.240 Huh oh, Sorry, we were looking for Chumba casino to chum. 379 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:51.160 That's right, chumbacasino dot com as over one hundred casino 380 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.519 style games joined today and play for free for your 381 00:21:53.599 --> 00:22:00.640 chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum Chumbacasino dot com, Pluster, 382 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:02.039 the Nations, the plus He Wentsie retails. 383 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.200 Now you've jumped head to the trial. But we have 384 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.440 to assess as you do, as you write, how the 385 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:14.680 police decided and how they underwent their breaking of Kevin Young. 386 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.000 They had spoken to all the friends, including Dan Dreyford, 387 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:20.839 but also the other friends and what they had to say, 388 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:25.279 so they got supporting in their mind, circumstantial evidence of 389 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.559 things that would fit that Kevin Young would fit for 390 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.200 this In terms of a violent background and things that 391 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.599 he had said that incriminated him and involved him in 392 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.319 this murder. 393 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.839 Some of the friends said that they had overheard him 394 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.319 saying he was going to kill Dan and Lisa, that 395 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.599 he was mad. That kind of goes back to when 396 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.839 Dan started dating Lisa and he was jealous, I think 397 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.599 jealous more of Lisa's time that she was spending with Dan, 398 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:54.480 because he considered Dan a good friend. And you know, 399 00:22:54.519 --> 00:23:01.359 there were these overheard conversations Arabica in which he shouted 400 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:03.960 that he was going to kill Dan. I don't think 401 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.640