WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.759 By Billy Cunningham, the Great America. Welcome this Monday at 2 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:12.839 Dude in the tri State. The Reds completely the last 3 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:15.480 six games. They went three and three. The last couple 4 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:18.199 of games in Chicago not so good, but nonetheless I'll 5 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:20.199 take us to three and three road tripped back out 6 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:24.519 of tonight, Tuesday and Wednesday in Milwaukee, and we continue. 7 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.480 But joining you and I now is Mark Pete Meyer. 8 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:29.719 And for those who may not know, he spent like 9 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:32.560 thirty to forty years in the prosecutor's office. He knows 10 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:35.240 where the bodies are buried all over Hamleton County many 11 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.200 many years ago. And then whenever riots at Lucasville, the 12 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.119 state of Ohio looked around and said, who do we 13 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:43.320 find in the state of Ohio to prosecute the criminals 14 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:46.520 who've killed guards and other inmates at Lucasville. And that 15 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:49.320 guy twenty years ago was Mark Pete Meyer. And since 16 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:51.840 then he's been with every prosecutor for the last thirty 17 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.880 five years, beginning with Artnay and then Joe Eaters, then 18 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.840 Mike Allen, then Joe Dieters, and then since then he's 19 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:01.880 been with Connie Pillach, Melissa Powers. He's been there and 20 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:04.280 knows where the bodies are buried. Once again to Mark 21 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:06.680 Pete Meyer, Welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. And first 22 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:09.519 of all, Mark, many are uncertain as to what a 23 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.040 grand jury does. This is in relationship to what's going 24 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:14.640 to happen to the Cincinnati cop to be indicted or 25 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:17.760 not indicted for the killing of Ryan Hinton about a 26 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:20.719 month ago or so. So can you tell the American people? 27 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:24.000 Do the grand jurors come from Mount Olympus, how are 28 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:26.400 they selected? What's it like in the grand jury room? 29 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.200 And formed the American people some of the basics. 30 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:32.359 Okay, And first of all, Bill, I actually started forty 31 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:34.640 four years ago for sy Lee, so four. 32 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:39.400 Holy god, you're not that old, are you. 33 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:38.560 No. 34 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.760 I came right out of Roger Bacon High School into 35 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.079 the prosecutor's office. So yeah. But anyway, the grand jurors 36 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:48.799 are selected just like a regular jury. To brand seiss 37 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:55.280 Is the juror commissioner. Every two weeks they subpoena probably 38 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:57.799 around sixty or so people that are just on the 39 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.719 voting roles, just like regular jurors. They show up down 40 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.680 the jury Commissioner's office, they go before the presiding judge 41 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.920 and Out of the sixty years so that are notified, 42 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:11.919 maybe thirty five to forty show up and our prosecutors 43 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:14.120 talk to them to make sure nobody has a conflict. 44 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:17.960 If you don't get paid by your job, you're excused. 45 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.919 If you've got to schedule vacation, or if you have 46 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.240 any kind of particular reason, you can't serve. But out 47 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.840 of that we winto it down to twenty two people 48 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:29.960 every two weeks. So every other Monday, twenty two people 49 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.960 are served picked to serve on two grand juries. They 50 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:36.479 are brought over to our office. We give them like 51 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.719 a one hour introduction video of how to be a 52 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:43.000 grand juror. From there they start their service. So there 53 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:47.000 are eleven jurors actually that are sitting in the grand 54 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:51.479 jury room to hear every case. After the case is presented, 55 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.439 two of them will step out, just their kind of alternates, 56 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:56.479 and they take turns doing that, and they make the 57 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.240 decision who's going to step out, And at that point, 58 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:01.599 the only people in the grand jury room or the 59 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:05.240 nine grand jurors, they have already heard the evidence, the 60 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.439 prosecutors told them the law, and they vote whether or 61 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.159 not to indate each of these grand jurors. Probably here's 62 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.479 fifteen to twenty cases a day, so they we kind 63 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:20.199 of rust these cases through pretty quickly. Anytime someone is 64 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:23.520 arrested for a felony, that case has to go to 65 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:26.639 the grand jury. If you're locked up, it has to 66 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.280 go to the grand jury within ten days. If you're 67 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.560 out on bond, it's got to be within fifteen days. 68 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:34.319 And if that's not done, the case is dismissed. So 69 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:38.280 the grand jurors deliberate, and again they may only deliberate 70 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.000 a minute. Most of these cases are pretty cut and dry. 71 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:45.159 They take a vote and the nine grand jurors, at 72 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.599 least seven of them, have to vote to indict a 73 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:50.479 case for it to go forward. That's called a true bill. 74 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:55.240 If six or less vote to indict, it's not enough 75 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.360 and the case is ignored. So it's in the grand 76 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:00.719 jury room. The only people in the gend injury room 77 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:05.120 is the witness testifying, the prosecutor, and the grand jurors. 78 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:07.240 In the old days, we had a court reporter, but 79 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.560 now everything is recorded, so there's no defendant, there's no 80 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:14.479 defense attorney, there's no judge. It's just the prosecutor, the witness, 81 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:15.879 and the grand jurors. 82 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.639 And what's the standard of proof. 83 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.920 So I've heard some civilians say, you know what, you 84 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.680 can diet a ham sandwich, you've been involved in litterally 85 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:31.399 tens of thousands of felony indictments, And can the prosecutor 86 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.600 direct give word by inflection of voice of what the 87 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:38.920 prosecutor might say. You know, you might say, well, I 88 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:40.560 don't think this is much of a case, but we're 89 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.680 going to present it to you anyway. Or you might say, 90 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:44.600 you know what, I think this is a serious case. 91 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.160 I think you should indict. How much influence would you 92 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.040 have in the grand jury when it comes to their decision. 93 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:54.160 Yeah, we don't really make a closing argument, but we 94 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:56.680 don't want a grand juror to indict the case that 95 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.160 we can't prove. So we tell them that in common 96 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.279 police court it's got to be proofed beyond the reasonable doubt, 97 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.199 and you need to be convinced basically to that same 98 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:07.839 level before you indict the case. I know some people 99 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:11.079 say it's only probable cause, but again, we don't think 100 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.399 it's fair. And every prosecutor I serve for from sy 101 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.720 Lease to Countie Pillage doesn't want a grand jury to 102 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:20.600 indict a case that they think maybe the person did. 103 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.160 That's not the standard we rely on. So it's got 104 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.439 to be a solid case. Again, we don't want to 105 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:27.720 have to go into a courtroom and try to prove 106 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:30.079 a case that maybe didn't even happen. 107 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.319 In fact, if you don't want a case in diet it, 108 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:34.319 you don't present it at all. 109 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:34.720 Correct. 110 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:36.800 If you look at all the evidence, you talk to 111 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:39.759 the witnesses, talk to the investigating officer, could be from 112 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:42.920 Green Township, from Madera, from the city of Cincinnati. And 113 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:47.480 if when you were in charge, which in forty four 114 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.399 years you're like the first sergeant of the whole brigade. 115 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:52.959 If you're saying I don't think there's a case here, 116 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:54.720 you don't present it the first place. 117 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:59.040 Correct, Correct, that's correct. We will actually go back to 118 00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.759 the municipal court, have a municipal court judge sign an 119 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:04.879 entry dismissing the case, especially if the person's locked up. 120 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.000 I mean, we move as fast as we can. Sometimes 121 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.600 the lab report will come back negative it's a drug case. 122 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:12.800 It may be any other kind of case where we 123 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:15.279 rely on some kind of chemical test and if it 124 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:17.199 comes back that it's not a drug or it's not 125 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.920 this again, we will not even present the case. So 126 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:22.480 those are the cases that are signed by the police. 127 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:26.800 Now there's another category of cases that are called direct hearings, 128 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.600 where the police haven't signed to charge yet they present 129 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.079 the case to us and we decide that we will 130 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:34.519 go direct to the grand jury. Good example of that 131 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.720 was the Marcus Fisel case, the little boy that was 132 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.199 hit by the foster parents. That's the case that Joe 133 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.279 neither decided that we were going to present to the 134 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.720 grand jury, and we actually subpoened to the grand jury 135 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:49.560 the suspects in the case, which was Liz and David 136 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:54.040 Carroll and Amy Baker, who was the living girlfriend of Dave. 137 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:57.720 And at that particular case, Liz Carroll actually ended up 138 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.800 confessing in the grand jury when she was questioned by 139 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:05.040 myself and cho Theaters and Dan Bryer from Butler count 140 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:07.720 or from Claremont County. So it's kind of a rare 141 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:11.839 situation where a defendant will appear. But in that particular case, 142 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.040 they were so cocky and so arrogant that they were 143 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.399 going to get away with what they did. They said, 144 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.920 bring it on, bring it on. Joe Dieters up here 145 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.040 before the grand jury, and it turned that back from them. 146 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:26.360 Mark Pete Myer on police shootings cases You've been involved 147 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.759 in everyone for the last forty some years. Do you 148 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.279 present to the grand jury a police shooting case that 149 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.600 you do not believe you can prove a trial that 150 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.040 you don't believe it should be indicted Having there have 151 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:42.399 been numerous circumstances, including the last five or six months 152 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:44.680 in which there were police shootings, I think are the 153 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.519 one that you and Connie Pillage said, we're not going 154 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:49.920 to present this at all. 155 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.680 If it's a clear cut justifying police shooting, we will 156 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:57.439 not present it. That's not all counties act that way, 157 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:00.800 but in a case where we believe, you know it, Basically, 158 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.279 if a suspect points a gun out an officer and 159 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.319 the officer shoots the person, it's not going to be presented. 160 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.399 If there's any threat to the officer or to anyone 161 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:12.879 else in the public and the officer ends up firing, 162 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.040 it's not going to be presented. Now, sometimes it's a 163 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:17.800 I don't want to say a close call, but it's 164 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:21.279 something I give you an example, the Beaver Creek Walmart 165 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:22.959 case that I was asked to call it in to 166 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:26.360 handle buck up in Green County that ten years ago, 167 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:30.480 there was so much public protest and so much public 168 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:34.600 discussion about that. I myself believed it was a justified 169 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.320 police shooting. But basically so, you wouldn't have this prosecutor 170 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.720 from several counties away making the decision. I made the 171 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:44.960 decision to present it to the Green County grand jury, 172 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.639 and they unanimously ignored the case within about a minute 173 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:51.200 of me closing the door and walking out of the room. 174 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.799 So again, sometimes even though a case we believe it 175 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:58.559 was justified, there's so much public input and comment and 176 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:03.000 discussion about it. Times a safer course of action is okay, say, okay, 177 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:04.960 we will present it to a grand jury. We'll let 178 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.240 some citizens look at this and make the decision. And 179 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:11.960 sometimes it's I don't want to say it's good cover, 180 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.919 but it's just policy. I think to actually take that 181 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.720 extra step in cases where it may be a close call. 182 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:18.559 You had a. 183 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:21.639 Case I forget that it was on I seventy five. 184 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.120 I think someone that didn't speak of the English very well, 185 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:27.840 who confronted a police officer and he was shot, and 186 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:30.480 this was about two or three months ago under Connie Pillach. 187 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:33.279 Why why did you not present that case to the 188 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.039 grand jury? 189 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:36.080 Because he hain't. 190 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.039 Believed that the person was a threat to the officer. 191 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:40.559 The officer did not know he did not understand English, 192 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:43.679 but he wasn't following his commands. It looked like he 193 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:46.279 had his hand in his pocket. He's told to get 194 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:48.200 his hands out, and then all of a sudden, he 195 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.039 brings it out of his pocket towards the officer. The 196 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.679 officer fired a shot. We actually went out to the 197 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:56.200 scene on that one. And again it's something that if 198 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:58.440 it's a credible threat and one thing too. You know, 199 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.519 it's a split second decision by a police officer, and 200 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:05.399 it's the only job I can think of that if 201 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:08.440 you make a mistake in that split second, you may 202 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.279 be going to prison. You know, if Jamar Chase drops 203 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.240 a touchdown pass, he doesn't go to prison. If Joe 204 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.399 Burrow throws a pick six, or if Eli data Cruz 205 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.240 struts out ten times in a row, they can't go 206 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:23.840 to prison for making mistakes. The police officer is the 207 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.000 only person I can think of that if you make 208 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:29.039 a decision in a split second that turns out to 209 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:32.480 be wrong, you absolutely face jail time. And that's something 210 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.879 we've taken the mind in presenting these kinds of cases. 211 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.320 It's the last thing a police officer wants to do 212 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:41.799 is fire is gun and he's called into situations that 213 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:45.759 we cannot handle ourselves. There's a threat, help, I need 214 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:49.519 the police. We call them into those situations, and again 215 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:52.600 we take that in mind when considering how the police 216 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:54.200 officer acted in that situation. 217 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:56.960 I'm thinking about what happened to the Taste of Cincinnati. 218 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.240 Of course, you were out of the office about you 219 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.000 left the office about a month month and a half ago, 220 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.679 and the Taste of Cincinnati A shooting. Guy's name was 221 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:09.960 Jabbari Johnson. He was breaking into cars and unbeknownst to 222 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:13.000 the two police officers on Fountain Square, he was armed. 223 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.000 He comes out of the Taste about after midnight as 224 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:19.960 it's closing down. Please identify him through a ring camera 225 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.559 as someone may have been breaking into cars. They asked him, hey, 226 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.080 they didn't know who he was at the time, as hey, stop, 227 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:26.840 we want to talk with it. He took off like 228 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:29.720 a jackrab but a cop about fifty yards away pulled 229 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.879 out his taser to stop him from running. But unbeknownst 230 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:37.240 to them, as he was pulling out his taser. Jabari 231 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.759 Johnson was reaching for a gun in the waist and 232 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:42.799 his waistband and the cop didn't really know that. And 233 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:47.159 fortunately the barbs hit the body of Jabari Johnson and 234 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:50.679 he had the effect. And he then the gun that 235 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.039 he was going to use to kill two police officers 236 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:56.200 on Fountain Square after the taste kind of hit the 237 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:59.360 pavement and the officer pulled out a taser thinking it 238 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:01.720 was a taser needed. He should have pulled out his gun, 239 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:03.600 but he didn't know he was armed. Now, the Ryan 240 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:09.960 Hinton situation, he was clearly armed and it appears unlikely 241 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:12.759 according to the video. You can prove one way or 242 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:15.120 another he pointed the gun at the cop. Is it 243 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:20.240 critical irrespective of Ryan Hinton, if someone is in possession 244 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.360 of a gun in his hand, do you have to 245 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.039 wait until he points it at you to respond? 246 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:27.000 No. 247 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:29.919 I mean to me, if you've got a person armed 248 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.080 with a gun, and in this particular case, I know 249 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:35.159 the person was out of view of the one officer, 250 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.600 he's in the view of another officer and a brother 251 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.399 officerer is yelling gun, gun. That's telling me that this 252 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.919 guy has a gun that's visible and it's a threat. 253 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.000 So to me, no, you don't. Again, you wait that 254 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:49.240 split second for him to point the gun at you, 255 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:52.679 and he might shoot before you can. So it's a 256 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.279 lot to ask again of a police officer who will 257 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:58.240 put into these situations to be perfect. You know, you 258 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.120 can take the video and flow motion and you can 259 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.840 do the Monday Morning quarterback, but that's not the luxury 260 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.279 the officer has on the seat. He's got to make 261 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:10.240 that split second decision. And the burden is basically, was 262 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:14.159 the officer justified in using deadly force to protect himself 263 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.519 or the public. That's basically what a jury is told 264 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:21.000 in those kind of situations, and it's an objective test. 265 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:24.440 But again, you can't Monday Morning quarterback these things. You've 266 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.879 got to put yourself in his shoes what he was 267 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:28.039 facing at the time. 268 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:32.039 Now Monday money quarterbacking. I'm holding a statement issued by 269 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:35.360 the City of Cincinnati here, and it says that one 270 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.440 of the suspects pulled a semi automatic handgun and pointed 271 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:44.440 it at an officer. If the video is incorrect, a 272 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:45.679 video cannot be incorrect. 273 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:46.440 It is what it is. 274 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.200 But said the officer fired his weapon, hitting the suspect. 275 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.480 The arm suspect is to seize. No officer were injured, 276 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.960 and Chief Police Teresa Thiji, some have said she made 277 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:02.600 a tactical air. The day after the shooting, she held 278 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:05.679 a news conference and said that the gun was pointed 279 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.000 at the officer, that he was shot in the chest 280 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:11.320 and the bullet went out his back and in reality 281 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.240 according to the coroner's office, Mark Pete Meyer forty five 282 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.320 years in the prosecutor's office according to the coroner, and 283 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.279 I think last me some Marco is about the best 284 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.159 there is that the kill shot went about four inches 285 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:25.120 below his left arm, put exit at the front of 286 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.840 his chest. Is the fact, assuming the chief of police 287 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.080 made a misstatement of fact, the reality might have been different. 288 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:38.200 Is that critical As far as indicting a police officer, I. 289 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.480 Don't believe so. And against the perception of the officer, 290 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.240 it is a split second thing. And again the fact 291 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:44.840 that another officer is yowing to. 292 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:45.799 Him gun gun. 293 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.679 It's that are increased awareness and as soon as you 294 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.440 see this person, you know in your mind you may 295 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:53.759 believe it is pointed at you or it's about to 296 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.320 be pointed at you, but it's you don't have to wait. 297 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.000 You don't have to put yourself in harm's way before 298 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.399 you defend yourself. That's the way we would look at 299 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:04.120 those kind of cases again. 300 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:08.159 And I look at the cases, and there was two 301 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:13.159 in Nashville. There was two cops in and around Columbus 302 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:17.240 that had a fleeing suspect and they didn't pull out 303 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:21.120 their weapons immediately. And he's running away, and he's running away, 304 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.320 but he reaches with his right hand under his left 305 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.120 armpit and fire shots out the cops and hits two 306 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.080 of them. They go down, and one of the officers 307 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:32.240 was able to return fire, shooting the assailant who was 308 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:37.279 running away. That was identical to Ryan Hinton. Situation identical, 309 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.799 and you would not even think about indicting the police 310 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:44.240 officers who survived the shooting, even though they did not know. 311 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:46.639 They did not know he had a gun until he 312 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.240 fired it. They just went to a scene and the 313 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:52.000 guy's running away and then they get shot, then they respond. 314 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:55.360 That's how close. Now for the police officer in Cincinnati 315 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:58.840 directly involved, the last thirty days has been hell for 316 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.120 him because I would think he's worried about getting indicted. 317 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.799 He's worried about his life, his work life, being over 318 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:08.519 as we know it. And I had on Connie Pilich 319 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.679 about two or three weeks ago and on a Friday, 320 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.559 she told me, this was like ten days after the 321 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.080 event took place, that she had seen no evidence to 322 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:20.000 indicate that any police officer committed a crime. 323 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.399 And that's what she said. 324 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.600 And I had on the corner thereafter who said that 325 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.080 the kill shot came from under the armpit. Now, there 326 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:30.600 was a bullet that went into his body and lodged 327 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.039 in the back of his neck, but she said that 328 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.799 wasn't that wasn't an entry room in the back, and 329 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.399 that she refused to say he was shot in the back, 330 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.399 which is what the activists are saying. And so lastly 331 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.720 I'll ask you this, Mark Pete Meyer, if if this 332 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.080 case is presented to the grand jury at this point, 333 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.799 is grand jury subpoena is out but the grand jury's 334 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.200 not heard the case. What's the differential between grand jury 335 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:55.960 subpoena is being out and a grand jury convened to 336 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.120 hear this case or those different things. 337 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:01.279 Yeah, grand jury subpoena would be issued, maybe to the 338 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.039 coroner's office to get all their records. That might be 339 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.480 issued to Cincini police to get all the body camera 340 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:09.039 footage so that Connie and the other people in the 341 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:14.279 office kept guying, and Seth Tiger, maybe a Heidi Rosalie 342 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.960 can look at the and Katie Burrows some of the 343 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.440 key people there in Mark Tierney can look at all 344 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:21.839 the evidence and then they will make a decision based 345 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.400 on everything they've seen. Is this something they have to 346 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.160 present to a brand jury. But again, I think they 347 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.440 will look at it and everything I've seen so far 348 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.200 that you know, Connie hasn't really changed the way she 349 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.519 approaches these cases then any of the other prosecutors I 350 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:37.240 worked for did. Is that you're going to, you know, 351 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.519 do the right thing, and if there's not enough there 352 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.240 to to adet or if you don't think there's enough 353 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:44.440 there that you would want to actually try the case, 354 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.519 then you don't present it. And if some people want 355 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.240 to criticize you about it. I know Joe Dieters, you know, 356 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.440 over the years to go out of criticism and he said, hey, 357 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.839 if run against me in four years in you know, 358 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.920 if you don't like the job I'm doing. And I 359 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.359 think they're continuing that same tradition in the office today. 360 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.759 And the standard of Connie Pillage is do I believe 361 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.440 if I cause an indictment to be issued against this 362 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.319 police officer in Cincinnati, do I believe I can get 363 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:12.400 a conviction at trial? 364 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:14.079 Is that the standard? 365 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.720 Yes, it's I believe that that's a standard we use, 366 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:20.480 and I believe she would use the same one. Is 367 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:22.799 this something if the grand jury, you know, you can't 368 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.839 present it to the grand jury and they indicted, and 369 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.000 you come out and say, well, even though the grand 370 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:30.160 jury indicted, I'm going to dismiss the case. That would 371 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.559 be wrong. You have to live with their decisions. So 372 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.039 to me, you would not present a case unless you're 373 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.200 ready to go to court with it. 374 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.160 Are you confident Connie Pillage will make the right decision? 375 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:41.880 I am. 376 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.200 Everything I've seen of what she's done so far in 377 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.240 the office and the people she's put in place in 378 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:48.400 the office, I believe she'll do the right thing. 379 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.119 Mark Pete Maer, I trust you implicitly. Once again, thank 380 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.640 you for your forty five years of service, beginning with 381 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.799 Side Lease and ending with Connie Pillage. You've seen it all, 382 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.279 You've done it all, and once again, thanks for coming 383 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.319 on the Bill Cunningham Shore. I say this quite often, 384 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.400 but Mark Pete Meyer, You're a great American. 385 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:04.759 Thank you. 386 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:07.400 Okay, thank you, Bill, goodbye. 387 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.799 God bless you. Let's continue with more. There it is, 388 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:13.160 and h the only bad part as we sit here 389 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.359 on what June the second, in the afternoon, is that 390 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.839 this police officer is still held in the bay. And 391 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.440 so let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham News next to 392 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:25.440 Jerome of the Reds News Radio seven hundred wlw. 393 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:28.000 HI. 394 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:30.279 Billy cunning in the Great American and of course rights 395 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.359 baseball kicks off about seven oh five. First pitch. We 396 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.119 joined the action at six oh five. Thirty minutes later, 397 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:42.279 goes say it again, Dave, seven ten and six ten, 398 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.119 So maybe I misspoke there, but six' ten we begin 399 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.079 to coverage first pitch about seven Ten eastern, time and, 400 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.519 Uh milwaukee's in town to see what's going on in 401 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:51.319