Speaker 1: There's this maze, and somehow these two mice and these
Speaker 1: two little people find their way into it. But they're
Speaker 1: not the only people in this world. Will friends and
Speaker 1: neighbors into the maze and to show them they're cheese?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly when I was waiting to bring us. That
Speaker 2: is a huge breakdown.
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 2: I can't imagine something more unappealing business stable.
Speaker 1: I feel like you would literally have to do no
Speaker 1: editing to make this into a children's picture book, Like
Speaker 1: the word count is already there.
Speaker 3: Why do you have me here? Why am I here?
Speaker 3: You want me to perform in this maze? What is this?
Speaker 3: Oh my god?
Speaker 4: Am I about to defend this book?
Speaker 3: Hold on? Oh my god, I try to defend it.
Speaker 3: I don't even know how you get Hello everyone, and
Speaker 3: welcome back to me book Club. This week we read
Speaker 3: Who Moved My Cheese? By Spencer Johnson Woo Getting the maze?
Speaker 3: Where to go?
Speaker 4: I don't know, but maybe I'll explain it a lot
Speaker 4: of time, a lot of times.
Speaker 3: Well, this is a real this was a real fun one.
Speaker 2: As always getting a catchphrase going for it, get in.
Speaker 3: I think that is something because there's something like that
Speaker 3: I should have looked it up, but there were like
Speaker 3: were catchphrases that the dumb mice said, I mean, sorry,
Speaker 3: little people, Jesus Christ will go. We'll get into it.
Speaker 3: I'm sure if you don't know this, we're gonna but
Speaker 3: well we'll help you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we promised. It's the book. No, we have just Sarah.
Speaker 3: It's it's fair to be confused.
Speaker 1: But yes, there's tiny people amazed as well. It's a lot.
Speaker 3: It's not we are mean book club. We read New
Speaker 3: York Times bestsellers that maybe shouldn't be. We are your host,
Speaker 3: as I said, I'm Sarah Burton.
Speaker 2: What's up. It's Clara Morris.
Speaker 1: How's it hanging?
Speaker 4: Jonas Gravis, it's hanging real low Sopria insjored it.
Speaker 3: That's where we want it. That's ideal, but you can
Speaker 3: believe it.
Speaker 4: We didn't plan that.
Speaker 3: I think they I think they know. I want to
Speaker 3: tell you, guys, why we're reading this book. Okay, it
Speaker 3: was Patron Patty wyn Jam Okay she said this, Hi,
Speaker 3: lovely ladies. Patty. Here. I've been in. I've been an
Speaker 3: enormous fan for about six and a half years and
Speaker 3: caught up on your whole back catalog. Keep up, keep
Speaker 3: up the caddy. Good work. Note to self, We're probably
Speaker 3: going to hide some of the back catalog, so get
Speaker 3: it in. Why you can't, uh yeah, why why? Because
Speaker 3: we're re releasing from the vault, so you have to
Speaker 3: put it in those vault from the vault.
Speaker 4: You can't just be like.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, excuse me. The vault's been opened this whole time.
Speaker 3: Okay, the vault.
Speaker 1: Afraid that there was some trouble.
Speaker 3: Me too, I'm so sorry. Yeah, anyway, Patty continues, I
Speaker 3: have a book recommendation that I think is perfect for
Speaker 3: many reasons. Who moved my First of all, it's a
Speaker 3: bona fide bestseller and spend five years on the New
Speaker 3: York Times list, so no surprise is about a non
Speaker 3: be years. Yes, all of that. So yes, Also, a
Speaker 3: few books have done such irreparable damage to the American psyche.
Speaker 3: It's basically a pamphlet about layoffs and how any worker
Speaker 3: who's laid off only has themselves to blame. And when
Speaker 3: I say pamphlet, I mean it's super duper short, so
Speaker 3: everyone will be happy. We were. She really knows, it's
Speaker 3: really good, really good.
Speaker 2: She did listen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never felt more heard. It's all framed around
Speaker 3: the dumbest possible parable about a mouse who's upset that
Speaker 3: their human overlord move their cheese. I would say, it's
Speaker 3: a little off, but we'll get into it. You will
Speaker 3: hate it. That's true. There are many actual, documented cases
Speaker 3: of employers gifted gifting their works this book only to
Speaker 3: immediately lay them off. This is a harbinger of destruction,
Speaker 3: a moth made of books. I love the pod you ladies,
Speaker 3: even Johnna. I will say. It does seem like Johnna
Speaker 3: gets off on the villain, and so I was understandably
Speaker 3: distrustful of her in the beginning. It's funny and all,
Speaker 3: but I do worry. I would need to watch my
Speaker 3: back if we knew each other in the real world.
Speaker 3: Top for now, Patty, oh my god, Patty coming in.
Speaker 2: And then a quick sign up.
Speaker 1: I did like a brutal straight bullet takes me out
Speaker 1: At the end of it.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't. I would say it was at I like.
Speaker 2: You guys all, even Johnna when pointing the gun at.
Speaker 1: So good, so like it's even just like it's like,
Speaker 1: I like you all, goes without saying John means but
Speaker 1: I've warmed up as best I can.
Speaker 3: I'm scared of you know, I just love Sarah. Yeah
Speaker 3: that is. I don't I don't know how this happened,
Speaker 3: but I mean it has happened. I think for sure.
Speaker 3: I just maybe I'm maybe I'm messed up, Like why
Speaker 3: aren't I the villain? Maybe I need to step up
Speaker 3: my game. I don't know.
Speaker 4: You're scared that and I both loved not being the villain.
Speaker 1: It's true, so obviously Sarah.
Speaker 3: Okay, so how did you guys read this one?
Speaker 4: Oh boy, I'll go first. I, first of all, really
Speaker 4: thought that there was no world in which this would
Speaker 4: not be available at the library, but it wasn't, and
Speaker 4: so I had to get it on an audible, which
Speaker 4: was a bit of a toss because the book itself
Speaker 4: was cheaper than a credit, but I already had the credits,
Speaker 4: so buying it was spending more money.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have done that.
Speaker 4: So I can't even remember what I chose.
Speaker 3: Actually, I think, I hope not the credit.
Speaker 4: I think I bought it. I think I bought it,
Speaker 4: but I did debate it. And for me, because I
Speaker 4: bought the credit package, it was only like one dollar
Speaker 4: cheaper than a credit, so it wasn't a big difference,
Speaker 4: but I did think about it anyway. Audiobook three point
Speaker 4: five time speed. Let me tell you, why did you
Speaker 4: use it?
Speaker 3: Because you listen to it in fifteen minutes?
Speaker 4: Well it was. I listened to it in about twenty
Speaker 4: five minutes. Yeah, ye, honestly it was great. On a bridge.
Speaker 4: It is an hour and twenty nine minutes.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it's the fucking shortest. It's definitely the
Speaker 3: shortest thing we've ever done.
Speaker 1: And also fifty minutes of that are an introduction and
Speaker 1: afterward and end notes. Yeah, so it's actually only like
Speaker 1: forty minutes of book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2: Do you think that that contributed to why it was
Speaker 2: a bestseller? People are like, well, I'm not as well.
Speaker 1: Full well read a book in my life.
Speaker 2: They make it a little gift.
Speaker 3: Yeah it feels good. Oh, we'll get into it. For sure.
Speaker 3: It was gift.
Speaker 4: I feel like Sarah is like portraying like there's a
Speaker 4: lot to get into, but there's a lot to get
Speaker 4: it little to get into.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, she's done some research. I've memorized
Speaker 3: is no, I haven't memorized this book, but uh, okay,
Speaker 3: so that's Sabrina did. Did anybody else do aud audiobook?
Speaker 3: How'd you guys get through?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I did an audiobook and I did not even look
Speaker 2: at the price. I just used a credit.
Speaker 3: Wow, okay, you guys are I got it out of
Speaker 3: the library, so big talk. I guess I requested it
Speaker 3: in time. But I also got the summary, like I
Speaker 3: didn't realize immediately I requested and I accellently requested summary
Speaker 3: of this book. And I also got that and I
Speaker 3: did not listen to it. But I was like, what
Speaker 3: the why the fuck does this book have a summary? Book?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this book which is just four summaries of it.
Speaker 3: Yes and yeah, over and over again, John, how did you?
Speaker 3: How did you read it?
Speaker 1: I spent the credit. It pained me to do so,
Speaker 1: but I really got over confident on this one. I
Speaker 1: looked at the length. I said, an hour and forty
Speaker 1: five minutes, I'll do this day of this is I'll
Speaker 1: be fresh?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: And we got into a panic all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: It was how am I going to get this book?
Speaker 3: Where this book?
Speaker 1: Will I have time to read this book?
Speaker 3: I d it. I bet you could find PDFs of
Speaker 3: this book. I mean, I didn't d percent if anybody
Speaker 3: had felt the need. Maybe this audible thing is really
Speaker 3: detrimental to us. It's weakening, all right, I think I know,
Speaker 3: I know from like reading other reviews, and then I
Speaker 3: went and looked at PDFs of the book that like
Speaker 3: there's some it's kind of like drawling. I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's like even more childlike than when you're listening to it.
Speaker 3: Oh kind of thing. But uh, all right, so that's
Speaker 3: how we read it. I read you guys, ready for
Speaker 3: Sarah sums it up for everyone who oh yeah, doesn't
Speaker 3: know what it is or wants a reminder? Are you
Speaker 3: gonna scroll down? Let's go, I'm gonna do some Cassie Sabrina,
Speaker 3: could you be Michael? Johnna? Could you be Angela?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 3: And Clara? Could you be Carlos? And I'll be Lena? Okay,
Speaker 3: all right, Michael, Angela, Carlos, and Lena gather around a
Speaker 3: punch bowl at their twenty year high school reunion.
Speaker 4: You know, I still think about that story I told
Speaker 4: last time we were all here, who moved my cheese?
Speaker 1: Oh right, the one with the little people who were
Speaker 1: the size of mice or mice that could talk, or
Speaker 1: were the actual mice And then there were also little
Speaker 1: people forced to live as mice. Did we ever get
Speaker 1: a backstory there?
Speaker 2: Their names were Sniff, Scurry, Pim and haw Right. They
Speaker 2: were all in some kind of maize looking for cheese.
Speaker 2: Classic metaphor stuff.
Speaker 3: Wait what the cheese represent again?
Speaker 4: Whatever you want it to success, a relationship, a job,
Speaker 4: anything you value. The whole idea was life changes, and
Speaker 4: if you cling too tightly to the old cheese, you
Speaker 4: get stuck.
Speaker 1: Oh that was hem, wasn't it. He refused to believe
Speaker 1: that cheese was gone. Do you think Ham was shrunk
Speaker 1: in a shrink ray or do you think he was
Speaker 1: born that small?
Speaker 2: No idea, Angela, But back to the story. Sniff and Scurry,
Speaker 2: the mice didn't overthink it. They just noticed the cheese
Speaker 2: was gone. They moved on.
Speaker 1: But mice can't think right like, of course, they don't
Speaker 1: overthink it. They choose electrical wires and pissed and shit
Speaker 1: wherever they eat. And that's who you should be looking
Speaker 1: up to. And how did they get so small?
Speaker 3: Angela, have some more punch, But the little people on
Speaker 3: Paul he hesitated, remember, and he eventually laughed at himself
Speaker 3: and went looking for the cheese.
Speaker 4: Right right, He learned to adapt. He realized if you
Speaker 4: do not change, you can become extinct. So he overcame
Speaker 4: his fear and stepped back into the maize.
Speaker 3: Oh kind of like after college huh.
Speaker 2: Or layoffs or breakups.
Speaker 1: Or after workplace discrimination. Just look for other cheese. Find
Speaker 1: a different racist cheese or does that only apply to
Speaker 1: the little people? Do you think a magic spell was
Speaker 1: cast on them and that's how they got to are racist?
Speaker 3: Uh? Okay, maybe we should clarify the lesson. Just you know,
Speaker 3: for angela.
Speaker 4: Simple change is inevitable. The cheese will always move, So
Speaker 4: you accept that and act, the better your chances of
Speaker 4: finding nude cheese.
Speaker 1: I remember, always wear sneakers around your neck right like
Speaker 1: a necklace. Is that a gen z thing?
Speaker 3: Or what?
Speaker 1: The fashion is hard because we're so old.
Speaker 2: The listen is, don't be a hen.
Speaker 4: Be more hole or better yet, be like the mice.
Speaker 3: Don't over complicate things right.
Speaker 1: Keep it simple. Don't mention your impending divorce. Don't mention
Speaker 1: your son taft just got kicked out of his school
Speaker 1: for poop smearing. Don't mention your former business partner went
Speaker 1: behind your back and bankrupted your essential oils company, focus
Speaker 1: on something else. Look at this punch.
Speaker 3: She's a new cheeseees.
Speaker 2: Better, really good, really good. I wish I had got
Speaker 2: cast as Angela.
Speaker 3: Order we nailed that.
Speaker 5: Laugh.
Speaker 3: I think I think we did.
Speaker 4: Thank you. I could have you remember too many cooks.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 4: I was inspired by that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah that's it. What is it, Clara,
Speaker 3: go ahead.
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to play Carlos. I did different.
Speaker 2: I was happy. I was regular at the end.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: No small parts, only small actors.
Speaker 3: Honey.
Speaker 2: I never meant to imply.
Speaker 1: Some characters just need to say past this.
Speaker 3: Yeah you should be happy.
Speaker 2: Then about what was written. I was, I suppose agreeing
Speaker 2: with you that there are small actors. I was admitting
Speaker 2: I almost wrote unbelievable.
Speaker 3: I almost wrote something in cheese puns. But then I
Speaker 3: I started to hate myself, so I yeah it changed course.
Speaker 2: I'm just a little bit. Yeah, this was really good.
Speaker 2: This was really good.
Speaker 3: I want to I like Angela. I might want us
Speaker 3: to do like a million act outs of those people,
Speaker 3: because like it's written so poorly, and like all those
Speaker 3: the characters talking about like.
Speaker 2: The book, oh yeah, they.
Speaker 3: Set up talking about the parable with these This just
Speaker 3: basically like it's a high school reunion and it's just
Speaker 3: so bad, Like it's just forced.
Speaker 2: And they're sitting at a table, no personalities. Literally, it's
Speaker 2: like one of them says something and they're like, you
Speaker 2: were captain of the football team.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's written like you was written in five minutes,
Speaker 4: but it did take twenty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently it did. Let's let's uh, let's get into that.
Speaker 3: After Johnna's jugs. Okay, Johnna, yeh, do you have a parry?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm in an absolute I forgot about
Speaker 1: John's john.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I feel like you already talked about
Speaker 2: being in a panic this episode.
Speaker 3: I have a book, I have a jug.
Speaker 1: You have a jug? Oh thank god? Sabrina is.
Speaker 3: It like milkid? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Serena's my savior. Serena saves it the day. Sena saves
Speaker 1: the day.
Speaker 4: Okay, Wow, I have two ways that I could do this.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you jug options.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay.
Speaker 4: The first jug is milk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes it makes sense. I get it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because yeah, milk turns into cheese. It's my understanding
Speaker 4: of how the process.
Speaker 3: I don't even know anything else.
Speaker 1: I'm with Serena. I've not been offered milk. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's the jug. Yeah.
Speaker 4: My second jug is just generally wine because the wine
Speaker 4: should be anything you want it to be, and you
Speaker 4: compare it with cheese. Wine is also anything you want
Speaker 4: it to be.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 3: It's funny because and they say that in the story,
Speaker 3: but in the story it is just cheese. So it's
Speaker 3: it's weird that they're like, within the story, do you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying? The story, they're like, yeah, for
Speaker 3: the little people, cheese was could be any of these things,
Speaker 3: but but it wasn't. In the story. Cheese was just cheese. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was weird the thing.
Speaker 2: They ate, right, which really kind of messed up as meta.
Speaker 3: What are you doing here, bud? But a lot of issues.
Speaker 2: Have you guys heard of have a jug question? Okay,
Speaker 2: have you guys heard of the story? Hey tea? No,
Speaker 2: it's new is hopping. They have a new kind of
Speaker 2: thing they put on the top of the tea, which
Speaker 2: is called cheese cream, which is a bad name, but
Speaker 2: it is like whipped cream of cream cheese.
Speaker 3: Oh, this would be the perfect drink for such a.
Speaker 4: I don't want to ever try that.
Speaker 3: I try try it.
Speaker 2: Hate the stores is just hate tea.
Speaker 4: The way that is so us as to how it
Speaker 4: might be spelled.
Speaker 2: I H E Y T T E the regular. It's
Speaker 2: a T store, so all regular.
Speaker 3: It's from Cha okay. I see you have it at
Speaker 3: Tyson's corner. That's where you get right, I.
Speaker 2: Haven't right down the road closer store.
Speaker 3: It's Chinese.
Speaker 1: When it was a tea store, I was like, like
Speaker 1: glutter t.
Speaker 3: It's it's in shang. I didn't.
Speaker 2: Google lines out the door.
Speaker 3: I'm interested, I gottata.
Speaker 2: I'm interested to. I'm interested to.
Speaker 4: When you listen to this episode, I do want you
Speaker 4: to hear the recording of yourself saying, hey tea, just
Speaker 4: the way you'd spell hate tea, and yeah, like hate
Speaker 4: a place like you know.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: If you want to look up what she's talking about,
Speaker 1: it's h E y oh my god.
Speaker 3: They know by now, they knew, they knew immediately.
Speaker 2: I think because I was talking about T shop before.
Speaker 3: I think I think thelous. All right, all right, guys,
Speaker 3: let's keep going. Let's get into this. It's a good
Speaker 3: jug all right, guys.
Speaker 4: Wait, why was this a jug question?
Speaker 2: It was because it would be a good jug for
Speaker 2: the Oh My question was have you heard of it?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: Really coming, really going for all right here.
Speaker 3: All right, guys, let's get to this book. It's called
Speaker 3: Who Moved My Cheese? An amazing way to deal with
Speaker 3: change in your work and in your life.
Speaker 2: It doesn't want to give you a way to die.
Speaker 3: You have to do it.
Speaker 1: By Sponsored Johnson's.
Speaker 3: I guess let's yeah, okay. The book was published in
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety eight. It is a business fable.
Speaker 1: It was a new genre. I don't want to read.
Speaker 2: I didn't more unappealing business fable.
Speaker 3: I have it with at least fifty three min It
Speaker 3: was a New York Times bestsellerupuon release and remained on
Speaker 3: the list for nearly five years. So yeah, that was what.
Speaker 3: And it was originally a fifty three week Yeah. It
Speaker 3: was also a long running bestseller for Publishers Weekly, over
Speaker 3: two hundred weeks. I was listening to something where they said, like, oh,
Speaker 3: people had to start stop, start taking off the shelves
Speaker 3: because like you know how they have like the New
Speaker 3: York Times bestseller and it was like always there that
Speaker 3: people thought like, why aren't you updating it? Like this
Speaker 3: book has been here for a year, and they're like, well,
Speaker 3: yeah so, And as of twenty eighteen, had sold almost
Speaker 3: thirty million copies worldwide. It's been translated into forty four languages,
Speaker 3: so it has a bunch of different versions too. How
Speaker 3: to share this? There's Who Moved My Choose? For Kids,
Speaker 3: which I think is probably as drawings, But there's also
Speaker 3: a Who Moved My Choose for Teens, which is essentially
Speaker 3: the same book, only instead of a high school reunion,
Speaker 3: they're like at a high school cafeteria on they're teenager.
Speaker 1: I feel like you would literally have to do no
Speaker 1: editing to make this into a children's picture book, like
Speaker 1: the word count is already there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, cut things that they should have cut for
Speaker 3: adults is what probably what they cut around. But uh,
Speaker 3: and there is this weird movie version I found that
Speaker 3: looks oh, I don't know how it got.
Speaker 1: We can share it, yes, please, let's share it.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's a little ridiculous. But why is this
Speaker 3: the best seller? You know what? I'll go into that later.
Speaker 3: I don't need to. We'll talk about the mister Spencer
Speaker 3: Johnson it's a cliffhanger, you know, it's a little cliffhanger.
Speaker 3: I'll try to go in that fest. Spencer Johnson, he
Speaker 3: was someone who avoided the spotlight, avoided publicity, so there's
Speaker 3: not a ton known about him, but we know he's
Speaker 3: born in nineteen thirty eight, South Dakota. He got a
Speaker 3: degree from USC medical degree from the Royal College of
Speaker 3: Surgeons in Ireland. So this was a guy on the
Speaker 3: road becoming doctor surgeon.
Speaker 2: Now I'm going to USC, not University of Southern California.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming it's.
Speaker 3: No use the University of Southern Yes, yes, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 3: I just.
Speaker 2: I just assumed he was too stupid to know us.
Speaker 2: Because he seems really stupid.
Speaker 3: We're going to keep going.
Speaker 2: Correspondence school that's also called us.
Speaker 3: Fair Fair Quest. It was the real one, really university's
Speaker 3: school college. So this was something I was a New
Speaker 3: York Times article had because he died in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: But to his death, there was an artist some article
Speaker 3: that had some information about him, and it said that
Speaker 3: at the time he was seen, he was doing you know, residency.
Speaker 3: He felt a lot of diseases, were people lacking something
Speaker 3: in their soul, and he wanted to fix them from
Speaker 3: the inside. This is like kind of fucked up. So
Speaker 3: I want to give you a little bit more. It's
Speaker 3: so weird that.
Speaker 4: Sounds nice, honestly.
Speaker 1: It makes it sound like every disease is your fault.
Speaker 2: While he was working in the hospital and then he's
Speaker 2: the rapist who's going to fix it.
Speaker 3: He grew frustrated on seeing the same patient's return with
Speaker 3: the same ailments as if they were not trying to
Speaker 3: better their lives. Oh, isn't that fucked up? Like I
Speaker 3: don't know. So he was at at the Mayo Clinic
Speaker 3: and Harvard Medical School at this time, and he was
Speaker 3: working in the hospital and he was got frustrated by
Speaker 3: all these sick people just kept being sick. So he
Speaker 3: left up. He left to work for a medical device manufacturer,
Speaker 3: essentially in their PR like writing PR stuff, and I
Speaker 3: guess from there kind of went into business side things.
Speaker 3: But it's just like, yeah, just what a what an
Speaker 3: evil place to start from, Like, okay, but he has
Speaker 3: I don't know, he had some children, he had some
Speaker 3: two wives not at the same time. Saying that he
Speaker 3: started to get into kind of this business beat in
Speaker 3: the eighties where he worked with Ken Blanchard, who had
Speaker 3: already been writing business books, but they weren't.
Speaker 4: Any relation to Gypsy Rose.
Speaker 3: You know, not that I'm that's gonna have to be
Speaker 3: a deep dive for someone else because I did not
Speaker 3: do that research. And I apologize. I apologize for not
Speaker 3: first off, but yeah, he wrote. So they and they
Speaker 3: had bestseller in the eighties called The One Minute Manager,
Speaker 3: and it got and became like a series or a
Speaker 3: ton of spin offs. It was not a real book.
Speaker 3: It was also just sixty five pages, and apparently to
Speaker 3: the publisher. The publisher was like, this is only sixty
Speaker 3: five pages. We should probably make this pretty cheap, and
Speaker 3: they were like, no, no, no, don't do that. Make
Speaker 3: a full price. People will think will not buy it
Speaker 3: if they are like, think it's cheap, And that was true.
Speaker 3: It actually was a good call. And some of the
Speaker 3: spin offfics.
Speaker 4: That's like the Dale, Yes it is, it is. Wow,
Speaker 4: can't from can't believe I remembered what book that came from?
Speaker 1: Well, the advice and self help books stick with you.
Speaker 3: Or it's all the same as also possible, there's some
Speaker 3: of the spa spawns of It was one minute Father
Speaker 3: and one minute Teacher, which I don't know. I didn't
Speaker 3: look into what these were, but it just I don't think.
Speaker 1: Minute Father, well that is possible.
Speaker 3: True second father, and I'm out out of the picture.
Speaker 3: He wrote another book ninety two to.
Speaker 1: At least be an eight minute father.
Speaker 3: I don't know. We're just talking about how long sex lasts?
Speaker 3: Is that what?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah. So basically became like a management guru, and
Speaker 3: he did seminars and stuff, and so this was like
Speaker 3: a cheese story he told the seminar and eventually he
Speaker 3: claimed somebody told him to make it into a book.
Speaker 3: But I'm sure, you know, maybe everyone did. I don't know.
Speaker 3: So nineteen ninety eight he wrote it came out blast Off,
Speaker 3: a huge deal. He you know, we'll get into it.
Speaker 3: He died in twenty seventeen at the age of seventy eight,
Speaker 3: and his sequel, Out of the Maze was published posthumously
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen. But yeah, I think the big this
Speaker 3: this book, like our uh like Patty, our patron said
Speaker 3: it did have a big effect in business and kind
Speaker 3: of like, how was it successful?
Speaker 4: No, I'm like, is Patty a fake name for a patron?
Speaker 4: Patty the patron.
Speaker 3: Oh I don't know. If so, I don't care because
Speaker 3: it was a great suggest I think it was really.
Speaker 1: So how did maybe it was you from the future?
Speaker 4: How did this book?
Speaker 3: How did this book get so successful?
Speaker 1: Okay, I yeah, I'd love to know.
Speaker 3: Uh, well, there's there's a few like there's some business
Speaker 3: context at this time where like we're in the nineties
Speaker 3: and it's life is good, life is good, but like
Speaker 3: there's also like a ton of layoffs. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of there's a big focus on you know, maximizing profits
Speaker 3: to this shareholder and making companies lean and even if
Speaker 3: like they're successful, so there's a lot of like we're
Speaker 3: doing well, the company's doing well, but they're laying everyone off,
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck? A lot of a huge shift
Speaker 3: in inequality and eighties and nineties, and so this ideology
Speaker 3: kind of came out of this change to change management
Speaker 3: to kind of like because there's all these layoffs going on,
Speaker 3: so how can we deal with it? So that's kind
Speaker 3: of like, okay, so that's it, you get it. It's
Speaker 3: like the time was ready for something evil like this.
Speaker 3: But the funny part of this be so successful is
Speaker 3: that like as again was mentioned before. It was just
Speaker 3: like businesses buying it for their employees, like Amway bought
Speaker 3: an for its employees, Southwest Airlines apparently bought twenty seven
Speaker 3: thousand Mercedes Benz nc NCAA was like, you have to
Speaker 3: get this for incoming students and teach it. And Ron
Speaker 3: Sorry reportedly gave who Moved by Cheese to companies while
Speaker 3: the company wasn't ploating. And then I was just like
Speaker 3: on a Reddit thread, it was just so many, so
Speaker 3: many people being like like a nurse being like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: there was a staffing crisis and they refused to raise
Speaker 3: wages or hire more help, but they gave us who
Speaker 3: moved my cheese? And like another one that was like
Speaker 3: they gave it to this before they outsourced the entire
Speaker 3: department overseas. It was it was just funny, like how
Speaker 3: many people were just like this they distributed to everyone
Speaker 3: when we were laid off over and over again. Oh
Speaker 3: this was a good one. Somebody said, I'm a teacher.
Speaker 3: Horrible principle wanted us to adopt a new program that
Speaker 3: was around who moved my choose, which I think was
Speaker 3: like part of the business arm that they had. After this,
Speaker 3: they'd vote for the program, but it was rigged so
Speaker 3: they didn't really get to vote. They adopted the program.
Speaker 3: Then the principal got a ten thousand dollars bonus for
Speaker 3: getting the program. Probably was also like a part of
Speaker 3: the way they were making money. I think they were like,
Speaker 3: if you do this, we'll give you a bonus for
Speaker 3: whoever brings the program in and anyway that she says.
Speaker 3: The principal then retired after getting the bonus, which was
Speaker 3: you know, in retrospect them like ten thousands. Not but
Speaker 3: maybe it was enough. Maybe it was enough at the time.
Speaker 1: It was the nineteen ninety eight you live to rest
Speaker 1: your life off that, Yeah, you buy a little house.
Speaker 3: A ten yeah. Yeah, so just one of those books
Speaker 3: that you know, Jesus Christ, they're giving it because.
Speaker 2: I don't have to give anything. It's true, you don't
Speaker 2: have to give a gift when you were like just
Speaker 2: leave them alone.
Speaker 4: But what I had you that's gonna give them severance.
Speaker 3: I think this was for managers and people to make
Speaker 3: them sell. Like it was I'm doing this. I'm giving
Speaker 3: this to you. You're being laid off, but it's to
Speaker 3: make myself feel better as the manager lay you off.
Speaker 3: Because it's like you're, oh, your opportunities await, you know,
Speaker 3: like shin up, you know you're you're gonna be okay.
Speaker 3: And I don't feel.
Speaker 1: Mary cheese you've never had before.
Speaker 4: You're awesome Swiss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're being laid off because you're a hall
Speaker 3: you know, a hem and a hall. So you need
Speaker 3: to read this and learn to not be like that.
Speaker 1: So here's the big problem with this business fable. The
Speaker 1: premise is that these two mice and these two little
Speaker 1: people are sent into a maze and they're just randomly
Speaker 1: given cheese one day, and then they become dependent on
Speaker 1: the cheese, and then the cheese gets will yes yeah,
Speaker 1: and the cheese gets taken away and they're like, ah,
Speaker 1: who moved my cheese? I deserve this cheese. I count
Speaker 1: on this cheese. And it's supposed to be this parable
Speaker 1: for work and how like you know, they freaked out
Speaker 1: instead of seeing it as an opportunity for change. But
Speaker 1: that relies on the idea that my job is something
Speaker 1: that was given to me out of charity unexpectedly, not
Speaker 1: something I needed or was seeking out, Like my job
Speaker 1: fell into my lap and it's something that I eat also, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I've come to rely on fully without doing anything
Speaker 1: in that position.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, am I about to defect queen hold on?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I try to defend it. I don't
Speaker 3: even know how you can.
Speaker 4: Know what I'm Okay, No, But what I was gonna
Speaker 4: say is I have a lot to complain about on
Speaker 4: this book. But I thought the messaging that I took
Speaker 4: away okay at my three point five time speed wasn't
Speaker 4: exactly that. Like what I took away was Okay, you
Speaker 4: have this cheese, and I think, honestly like it being
Speaker 4: there for simplicity was for simplicity. In the book, it's like,
Speaker 4: you have this cheese. You're at a place in life.
Speaker 4: We are all at a place in life, and the
Speaker 4: place we are at life is this cheese. And you
Speaker 4: keep going back to this cheese. And this cheese right
Speaker 4: now is what's fulfilling to you and what is propelling
Speaker 4: your life forward. But one day it could be gone,
Speaker 4: or one day it could no longer sate you, and
Speaker 4: you need to not be afraid to go looking for
Speaker 4: other cheese. This is not the only cheese in the maze.
Speaker 4: This is not the only job you'll ever have. This
Speaker 4: is not the only relationship you'll ever be in. And
Speaker 4: you know, just because this cheese is there doesn't mean
Speaker 4: you should keep going back to this cheese. If this
Speaker 4: cheese is no longer doing it for you, or it
Speaker 4: happens to disappear, there's going to the other cheese. You
Speaker 4: are just too afraid of change to find it.
Speaker 3: This is this is That is the nicest over simplification
Speaker 3: of my life.
Speaker 1: But it's also like for me, the equivalent of like
Speaker 1: if there was just a big pile of mulch I
Speaker 1: got and one day the mulch went away, I didn't
Speaker 1: Why why was I given mulch at all? I was
Speaker 1: able to forge for my own?
Speaker 2: Mult didn't find you didn't they have to find the cheese.
Speaker 3: They did. They had to originally find it to work
Speaker 3: for it. In the parable, it says, it says the
Speaker 3: difference again, why the fuck are there little people in mice?
Speaker 3: Why aren't they all mice? Like?
Speaker 4: Why are people?
Speaker 3: This doesn't make any fucking sense. Why the mice?
Speaker 4: You actually can just have it be mice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like made it more confusable, It made it way
Speaker 3: more confusing. And why do the mice have sneakers? Anyway?
Speaker 3: They the rule says something like about how the rules
Speaker 3: of the world don't make sense. Okay, but it says
Speaker 3: something about like, oh, they're looking for the cheese, and
Speaker 3: like the little mice like they what are their names?
Speaker 3: Scurry and they sniff and scurry and that's how they
Speaker 3: find the cheese. But the humans use their brain and
Speaker 3: there but.
Speaker 4: It doesn't they don't say it doesn't say.
Speaker 3: How, doesn't go it all into how they use it,
Speaker 3: just they've just that's mentioned. And then like but they're
Speaker 3: but they're fucking idiots because apparently, like the cheese has
Speaker 3: been getting moldy, they say later the she's been getting
Speaker 3: moldy the cheese, the mound of the cheese has been
Speaker 3: getting less and less, and our fucking idiot humans haven't
Speaker 3: noticed at all. That's one problem. And then it happens
Speaker 3: and that we're there, we're they're telling us we need
Speaker 3: to be like the mice, because mice are just like,
Speaker 3: let's go back to finding the cheese. And the humans
Speaker 3: are like upset about it, and I'm like, no, I
Speaker 3: feel like I would be a little I mean, if
Speaker 3: I had cheese all the time it just disappeared, I'd
Speaker 3: be a little pissed. Off about it. I'd be like,
Speaker 3: what happened? Like they're right, They're like, who moved the
Speaker 3: cheese is a fair fucking question because who didn't? Who
Speaker 3: is who did move the.
Speaker 1: First place?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Why move your own cheese? You could be the
Speaker 3: answer to who moved your But they can't move their
Speaker 3: own cheese, not in this they have to find another cheese.
Speaker 3: But like in life, you move cheese.
Speaker 4: You could move your own cheese.
Speaker 3: I do that.
Speaker 1: I would amaze.
Speaker 3: Who is the hand in this story? Is that? That's capitalism?
Speaker 3: That's like market forces? Like what are we talking about here?
Speaker 4: It depends on what the cheese is, right, Like maybe
Speaker 4: the cheese is Maybe the cheese is my Maybe the
Speaker 4: cheese is self love.
Speaker 3: Okay, the money because it's easy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but like it's whatever you need it to be.
Speaker 3: It's still fair. I think it's fair to question who
Speaker 3: did that, Like who's putting the cheese? What are the
Speaker 3: forces that are placing the cheese here? Because it will
Speaker 3: like to know that information would help you be able
Speaker 3: to figure out where the cheese might be next.
Speaker 4: If I know, are the fair questions to ask?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: If I know that the cheese is being provided by
Speaker 1: a cheesemonger. Then the next thing I need to know
Speaker 1: is where the origins? Where are their headquarters? That's where
Speaker 1: I'll go.
Speaker 3: Let me go to.
Speaker 4: Maybe one day it's a cheesemonger. Maybe one day it's
Speaker 4: a person who works in Whole Foods that not in
Speaker 4: the cheese section.
Speaker 3: And I don't know.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah it does.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of places the metaphor doesn't work at all,
Speaker 2: Like even in what we've been talking about. So the
Speaker 2: idea that someone moved your cheese and you're pissed off
Speaker 2: about it, it doesn't work to in the way he's
Speaker 2: describing it for that to be your job or your relationship,
Speaker 2: because he also describes him getting weaker from not eating.
Speaker 2: So it really pissed me off the bar or whichever
Speaker 2: or hem was, like would I was so afraid of change?
Speaker 2: He would stay and starved to dead. It took me
Speaker 2: out of it, like any human, any would go look,
Speaker 2: any human would go look. And and so that was
Speaker 2: a place the metaphor broke down.
Speaker 4: Okay, but wait, maybe it doesn't break down right. Maybe
Speaker 4: you don't even realize you're starving yourself because it's not
Speaker 4: good it's it's like, yeah, you're right, that's not of
Speaker 4: a steam is going down. Your mental health is going
Speaker 4: that's supposed to be, and don't pull yourself out of that.
Speaker 2: He didn't give them symptoms, didn't give them symptoms of
Speaker 2: depression or mental health. He gave them symptoms of starvation.
Speaker 2: He said they were getting weaker.
Speaker 4: Okay, sure, I'm sure, but for them it was food.
Speaker 3: I'm fine, I find saying the starvation could be your
Speaker 3: in Sabrina's ideas, Like.
Speaker 2: But he also he would also hint it. He say,
Speaker 2: he would hint at mental health things, but they were
Speaker 2: also starving. And I think that really took me out of.
Speaker 3: The I mean, it was bad. It was bad because
Speaker 3: he should have just stuck in the lane of parable
Speaker 3: and like stop bringing up like what it could represent
Speaker 3: and like let us all determine that, or like let
Speaker 3: the people. I mean, he had this whole fucking thing
Speaker 3: where adults are talking about the parable. Let them talk
Speaker 3: about what it could be. No, within the very story,
Speaker 3: he's like, also it could mean this, it could mean
Speaker 3: That's not how the parable works.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about another huge way it breaks down,
Speaker 1: which is that there's this maze and somehow these two
Speaker 1: mice and these two little people find their way into it.
Speaker 1: But they're not the only people in this world. Pieces
Speaker 1: friends and neighbors into the maze and to show them
Speaker 1: their cheese.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was waiting to bring us. That
Speaker 2: is a huge breakdown.
Speaker 3: That's a huge breakdown.
Speaker 2: What the hell.
Speaker 1: Where are these people getting their quote unquote cheese. Also,
Speaker 1: one of the characters is like I've gathered hem is
Speaker 1: like I gathered so much cheese at my cheese estate.
Speaker 1: I'll have enough cheese to live on cheese Drive someday. Well, now,
Speaker 1: let's become.
Speaker 4: Money, because it needed to be money at that time.
Speaker 2: Sabrina, Okay, Sabrina defend the parties, but they threw with
Speaker 2: other little people to go see the cheese.
Speaker 1: Then do the parties represent real parties?
Speaker 4: You know, like at that time, the cheese is doing
Speaker 4: it for you. At that time, you are loving the cheese.
Speaker 4: It's it's it's saying that.
Speaker 2: I think it's saying you're showing off the cheese.
Speaker 3: Off the cheese, yeah right, but you love that, right.
Speaker 2: But in the book, they're not showing it off to
Speaker 2: the mice. They're not showing it off to each other.
Speaker 2: They're showing it off to other people. Where the fuck
Speaker 2: did they live? And how do they do?
Speaker 3: They go to?
Speaker 2: Stout stains them.
Speaker 3: Well, let's go to the other mazes. Are they in
Speaker 3: different mazes? Why are we just hanging out this maze?
Speaker 1: They can get in and out of the maze. But
Speaker 1: also the solution to Hem and Haw's problems is not
Speaker 1: ever to leave the maze, which shows you this community
Speaker 1: and village that I guess they live in. It's to
Speaker 1: just look in other rooms in the maze, which if
Speaker 1: we're talking about a metaphor, then now I'm just still
Speaker 1: at the same company and I'm like, oh, I got
Speaker 1: fired from my job in the IT department. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna keep slamming my head again to this application to
Speaker 1: work in data.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back to the building where I worked.
Speaker 4: Well to be invited into the right bring into the maze.
Speaker 4: Are actually in other mazes. So it's not like you
Speaker 4: can be in the maze or you can be in
Speaker 4: this free, wonderful world. It's like you can be in
Speaker 4: this you can be in that maze.
Speaker 2: It seems like.
Speaker 1: I'm going to capture one of the mice from the
Speaker 1: other goddamn mazes and it's gonna work for me and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ride it to wherever the Jesus. Why don't.
Speaker 3: What happened to? What are these fair weather friends? Also
Speaker 3: times got tough? I didn't. I didn't see that.
Speaker 4: Another refer classism friend and friend.
Speaker 3: Also, but the main also, the the main like thing
Speaker 3: is like, oh, we should be doing what the mice
Speaker 3: are doing, just moving on and not thinking about what
Speaker 3: we lost or what it was just like it was
Speaker 3: crazy because I'm like, yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't apply
Speaker 3: to most situations, anything that's slightly complicated, anything that's like
Speaker 3: structural that requires like people to you know, pull the
Speaker 3: resources to overcome an issue. It's just like, no, the
Speaker 3: issue is you and you just need to move on.
Speaker 3: And it's like a very toxic, toxic message.
Speaker 2: Perhaps specific to hem and Haw because they're not smarter
Speaker 2: than the mice.
Speaker 3: They are longer than the mice, yes.
Speaker 2: So maybe yeah, they should be more like the mice.
Speaker 2: I think my biggest thing with him in Haw was
Speaker 2: they have pens to write on the walls and they
Speaker 2: write little inspirational sayings, but they don't use it to
Speaker 2: help them navigate the maze.
Speaker 3: No, you guys felt like they were pressing them while
Speaker 3: he's doing that. I'm lazy. He's going crazy, fully, like
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: Writing things like always smell the cheese, like you imagine
Speaker 1: the cheese.
Speaker 3: You will get to the cheese room, No cheese, nobody that.
Speaker 4: I was just sometimes she's could appear where it wasn't before,
Speaker 4: so it doesn't matter if you checked her room.
Speaker 2: Well, he said he got lost, so it might have
Speaker 2: been good to have some markings.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt this. It felt like squid games to me,
Speaker 3: like a scarier squid games, honestly, but yeah, again, who
Speaker 3: why it? Also if a hand dropped the cheese there,
Speaker 3: like bite the hand, bite, Why couldn't have put the
Speaker 3: cheese back exactly where they put it? Like maybe the
Speaker 3: hall was right to just sit and wait because.
Speaker 2: Maybe the hand is hurt and sick and needs the head.
Speaker 3: I feel like the chances are just just good. He's
Speaker 3: gonna drop it right in the same place that somewhere else,
Speaker 3: like I don't know it.
Speaker 1: Done even made any sense. Also, when you look at
Speaker 1: the terrible as it breaks down there. Basically, when you're
Speaker 1: faced with change or challenge, there are four things you
Speaker 1: can do. You can be like sniff, which is you
Speaker 1: can sniff out the problem before it happens, and like.
Speaker 3: Take or something. I don't even know what he was
Speaker 3: doing preemptively, but I just it's he could smell the
Speaker 3: mold or something.
Speaker 4: He could smell mold. So he went to find Better's
Speaker 4: fresh cheese.
Speaker 1: No he didn't.
Speaker 3: He waited until the very end, and he can just
Speaker 3: sneakers around his neck.
Speaker 4: Well he knew, I guess.
Speaker 1: He just so he waited with dread, okay, the entire time,
Speaker 1: knowing that the cheese supply was dwindling and becoming less edited.
Speaker 3: He didn't he didn't communicate it to anyone else and
Speaker 3: get together, let's try to figure this out.
Speaker 1: No, just like I sense trouble. Okay. So that's one
Speaker 1: way you could deal with problems, which is apparently a
Speaker 1: good way. You could be like scurry, which is, as
Speaker 1: soon as you wait, you do nothing, you have no
Speaker 1: sense that anything's going to happen. And then as soon
Speaker 1: as something bad happens, you immediately make a reftis decision
Speaker 1: and you scurry away to find what God knows what
Speaker 1: I don't know, right in the arms of a mousetrap.
Speaker 1: Then you could be like haw and apparently the metaphor
Speaker 1: there is laugh at yourself, you know, just just like
Speaker 1: look at your floibles and your follies and realize like
Speaker 1: you're the moron in the end, Yeah, I could have
Speaker 1: been a better financial manager. And then there's hem and
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from him.
Speaker 3: He got fired at the end, that's the story. Michael
Speaker 3: goes back and he's like him's fired.
Speaker 1: So that's it. Those those are the three options. Get
Speaker 1: fired and be like him, and I guess just ops insane.
Speaker 2: Screw sniff, I guess is your best one? Anticipation I think.
Speaker 4: Is ultimately your best one. It doesn't he laughing at himself.
Speaker 4: He's he learns to evolve.
Speaker 2: He's starving today. He's starving today, and he says insane
Speaker 2: when he is starving to death, lost in the maze.
Speaker 2: He said, maybe I bid off more than I could chew.
Speaker 2: And then he laughed because he didn't have anything to chew.
Speaker 2: I don't think someone who isn't going insane from starvation.
Speaker 4: I think he was. He's funny.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think he was. I think that
Speaker 3: I don't think anything he was funny.
Speaker 1: Those are the words whose faculties were leaving him.
Speaker 3: No, they were all there.
Speaker 4: What he knows?
Speaker 2: You really think?
Speaker 3: I don't, it's so funny and scurry.
Speaker 1: Were in the maze at all. I think there's something.
Speaker 3: That that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I think hal was you know, I'm sad for.
Speaker 3: Hang Yeah, I feel I feel scared for He left
Speaker 3: him to die and then was like creating this whole
Speaker 3: story to justify what he did.
Speaker 4: What do I know we kind of touched on it,
Speaker 4: but what do we really think? The purpose of having
Speaker 4: two mice and then too little people.
Speaker 3: Was because you're the little people because people uh overthink,
Speaker 3: they have complex thoughts and then they overthink and it
Speaker 3: makes them not become fearful and be too afraid to
Speaker 3: go after the next cheese. I think that is the
Speaker 3: main thing. It's just a very stupid way of doing it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so just like be thoughtless like a mouse.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the That is fully the message, which is
Speaker 3: which is why it's like an insane book to give
Speaker 3: your workers. But was for that purpose to be like,
Speaker 3: we don't I don't want you to think too much, guys,
Speaker 3: don't question why these why we're making these structural changes
Speaker 3: in the business and we're fired. Everyone just go with it,
Speaker 3: like be a mouse, grace, Grace Gary.
Speaker 2: Do you guys think a mouse really would move on
Speaker 2: to another part of the maze or would they just
Speaker 2: like lick at the corners of the wall and scratch
Speaker 2: at the corners of the wall.
Speaker 4: Mice find their way out of mazes. That's like, I mean,
Speaker 4: that's certainly why it's set here, right, is because that's
Speaker 4: like a conscience.
Speaker 2: Experiments are dumb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't know why they aren't
Speaker 3: just all walking around the maze. I mean, it seems
Speaker 3: like you should get some exercise. I mean, if that's
Speaker 3: all where you live, why are you staying in one
Speaker 3: room like.
Speaker 4: One?
Speaker 2: That's another place. It sort of breaks down, isn't it
Speaker 2: that they aren't.
Speaker 3: Having parties, but you're not exploring, but they only go
Speaker 3: to this room, So it implies that cheese.
Speaker 2: The parties imply that cheese is so novel you would
Speaker 2: have a party to show it off. So what are
Speaker 2: the other people eating?
Speaker 3: How bad is it?
Speaker 4: They're just it's different cheese for them, less cheese. But okay,
Speaker 4: I got to push back on this because that is
Speaker 4: like so true, but that's so true. Of it's like
Speaker 4: say that replace cheese with just the word stuff, and
Speaker 4: it's like, why are you showing off your stuff? We've
Speaker 4: all got stuff, but like they're varying degrees of stuff.
Speaker 1: Do you think I come to your house to see
Speaker 1: your stuff?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't host to show my stuff off.
Speaker 2: But like that's what they did do they host like
Speaker 2: fashioned cheese. It's you know, so the metaphor of them
Speaker 2: having a party behind them they're having a party and
Speaker 2: having their friends come to their party was supposed to
Speaker 2: be a fashion show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, something like that, like a spectacle.
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's another point of contention I have. At
Speaker 1: one point, the smart humans are like, you know what,
Speaker 1: can't the cheese isn't in this room. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: some sledgehammers. We're gonna knock a hole in the wall.
Speaker 1: See if maybe the cheese went into the wall. And
Speaker 1: the book's like, wasn't that freaking dumb and stupid? They
Speaker 1: could have walked through the main They're knocking holes in
Speaker 1: the wall, and I was like like is it or
Speaker 1: why is that exactly the kind of outside of the
Speaker 1: maze thinking that a good employee should have exactly, well, no,
Speaker 1: no cheese here, I've been through this whole maze before.
Speaker 1: Time to start knocking down walls.
Speaker 4: Well, and you might think that I defend the book here,
Speaker 4: but I happen to agree with you that.
Speaker 1: Aha, it's a good idea.
Speaker 2: There we go, there we go.
Speaker 1: I think they should be burning the maize down building
Speaker 1: ladder shoots out of the maze.
Speaker 4: And I need some level of order in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I still, I still. I just feel like
Speaker 3: the stuff that he was like these humans, Oh my god,
Speaker 3: look the things they're doing. It's like, no, they were
Speaker 3: asking him who moved the cheese? Is the correct question
Speaker 3: because it can get at where could be? Yeah, it's important,
Speaker 3: like how does my world work? Is essentially what that
Speaker 3: question is asking. And I do think, yeah, should know that,
Speaker 3: should know that because cheese, Because guess what if the
Speaker 3: cheese is going to move again? Don't you want to
Speaker 3: know where it might?
Speaker 1: Like robot moving the cheese every four weeks? Is someone
Speaker 1: moving the cheese to kill me? In which case I
Speaker 1: have an enemy and I should know.
Speaker 3: I don't pull it.
Speaker 4: I don't think it needs to be that. It could
Speaker 4: be that dramatic but I don't think it needs to
Speaker 4: be that. It be more fun if it could just
Speaker 4: be it could just be like, you're at your job
Speaker 4: and it's a dead end job and it's no longer
Speaker 4: fulfilling you. Inflation is rising, the salary no longer feeds you.
Speaker 4: You got to go get a bree cheese job.
Speaker 1: Where am I going to get a bree cheese job?
Speaker 4: Somewhere somewhere else in the main. That's the point, though,
Speaker 4: is your mindset is where am I going to get
Speaker 4: a bree cheese job? There is no breecheese job out there.
Speaker 4: My little shred of American is the only job left.
Speaker 4: But when you actually go out into the maize, you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: there is a bree cheese job, or maybe don't find
Speaker 4: the bree cheese job.
Speaker 1: You're like, monster, Okay, here's a problem with Oh there's.
Speaker 3: The Monster's definitely the monster is definitely paying you less money.
Speaker 3: It's definitely paying you less money. I think if you're
Speaker 3: getting that monster than American.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fully, Okay, So this is like, hey, you've got
Speaker 1: this American.
Speaker 3: We live in America.
Speaker 2: The American cheese is disgusting.
Speaker 1: Well, it depends, you know, if we're talking about a burger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you work American cheese.
Speaker 1: It comes in steady, Okay, it comes in steady every week. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe it's been a little less lately. Maybe it's maybe
Speaker 1: it's not the quality I was used to, But it's
Speaker 1: a steady cheese. But this hem comes over and he's like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: what would you do if you had no fear? And
Speaker 1: I'd be like, huh, I guess I'd live. I'd go
Speaker 1: move to Newport, Rhode Island where the Vanderbilts and the
Speaker 1: Rockefellers have their mansion, because that place seems beautiful, and
Speaker 1: I I guess I'd like to be a singer. Oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go in.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quit my job at the American Cheese corner
Speaker 1: of the maze, give a big f you to my mom.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna move to Newport, Rhode Island, and there I
Speaker 1: will last three months. I have no money. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not a singer. I'm not gonnat.
Speaker 3: And is that a go for cheese?
Speaker 4: You can reach?
Speaker 3: Okay, But then it's like to say that in the book,
Speaker 3: it doesn't it doesn't it sho it's in a maze.
Speaker 3: There's not that. There's not that amount of what like
Speaker 3: moving between classes is a lot harder than the book
Speaker 3: is making it out. It's like I'm gonna go get
Speaker 3: a job, I'm gonna go out and sure, but but
Speaker 3: it's like it's crazy to be like I am. This
Speaker 3: book is mainly given from a company CEOs to their
Speaker 3: low level employees with the message that like you, it's
Speaker 3: your fault that you're no longer either getting the bright
Speaker 3: money you want or enjoying your job, and that you
Speaker 3: need to be the one to fix it.
Speaker 2: Like it's just and like it's not even that it's
Speaker 2: your fault. It's like it's not my fault. So you
Speaker 2: deal with it like like I will. The onus is
Speaker 2: on you. Don't ask me for a reference. The illness
Speaker 2: is on you.
Speaker 1: Right, here's what suck. I know it's my tweet. My
Speaker 1: cheese is dwindling. I know this. It's getting a little
Speaker 1: bit moldy. I sit there and I wait, I've got
Speaker 1: night vision goggles that I watch for the hand. The
Speaker 1: hand comes in, I fucking latch on the game, and
Speaker 1: I say, what's going on with the goddamn cheese? Okay,
Speaker 1: I need good cheese. I need to here now, I
Speaker 1: need the quality I'm used to or I'm gonna bite
Speaker 1: through your skin.
Speaker 4: You why do you have me here?
Speaker 3: Why am I here? You'll need to perform in this space?
Speaker 1: What do you want from me?
Speaker 4: Is this how you talk to your boss?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if he was starving?
Speaker 1: Does that maaving me poison money?
Speaker 3: It's just so sad, I do, Sabrina to go back to,
Speaker 3: like the only message I do think that like why
Speaker 3: are you well? Like what is the fucking afraid question?
Speaker 3: He asked that I feel is it was.
Speaker 1: Like what would you do if you were if.
Speaker 3: You were no fear? I get, I do a little
Speaker 3: bit get that question. I don't like to apply it
Speaker 3: to like business or whatever, but like just to get
Speaker 3: yourself thinking why not? Why not?
Speaker 4: Why not apply that to business and professional life.
Speaker 3: Because they're well, not just because it's like what where
Speaker 3: the message is coming and what the intention behind me
Speaker 3: asking myself that is, but because uh, like a little
Speaker 3: fear I think is is good and necessary and also.
Speaker 4: Well the book says that too, and it's.
Speaker 3: Making me think good. It's making me it makes me.
Speaker 4: The question makes me feel like.
Speaker 3: That the reason like why I don't have success or
Speaker 3: I'm not doing well is just because I'm not thinking
Speaker 3: big enough, which is which completely ignores, like I said,
Speaker 3: structural issues like which it ignores, like class issues like
Speaker 3: there are a lot of people that it is not
Speaker 3: easy to move between jobs for ignores disability discrimination, it
Speaker 3: ignores so many things.
Speaker 4: Book, but if I repeat the same story five times,
Speaker 4: it can only fit in.
Speaker 3: So sure, Sure, but I think I was trying to say, yeah.
Speaker 1: But yeah, here's why someone might have a little fear.
Speaker 1: I guess is like I'm this is probably stupid, Like
Speaker 1: I feel dumb even saying this, but like your job is, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's that fear, uh stupid, But like if your job
Speaker 1: is tied to your health care, providing health care for
Speaker 1: your family and you maybe you have dependents that are
Speaker 1: relying on that healthcare and so like such a stupid
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 4: That healthcare.
Speaker 1: There though, then I wasn't able to keep that child safe.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's you're right, it's just because I'm here,
Speaker 1: I think too small.
Speaker 3: I guess I think too much too much.
Speaker 4: What I'm not a way from it was not you
Speaker 4: always have to burn down your life and your pile
Speaker 4: of cheese. More So, what I took was if someone
Speaker 4: moves your cheese, there is something else out there, like you,
Speaker 4: you don't have to be paralyzed by the fear that
Speaker 4: your cheese being gone is the end of you ever
Speaker 4: having cheese.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a message from somebody who was
Speaker 2: going to be a doctor and chose not to and
Speaker 2: found success business.
Speaker 3: It's toxic positivity, Like it's it's using positivity in a
Speaker 3: way that's like overall like negative because you're like it
Speaker 3: undermines like what actually people go through essentially, like, oh,
Speaker 3: if something horrible happens, like I guess we're talking about
Speaker 3: the fucking cheese. Your cheese was taken away, Like there
Speaker 3: there's probably I don't I think it's bad. Sure, blame
Speaker 3: the victim mentality. I feel like he's essentially saying, like, oh,
Speaker 3: people struggling with change, you're just afraid or lazy. But
Speaker 3: it ignores like trauma not having the support to like
Speaker 3: get through with this, or like like John was saying,
Speaker 3: you like maybe now you don't have healthcare, so now
Speaker 3: these other issues are now arising because they were tied
Speaker 3: to the cheese.
Speaker 2: What if we take this as a very literal metaphor,
Speaker 2: and imagine that the food bank you rely on no
Speaker 2: longer gives out food one day, I think it would
Speaker 2: be reasonable to say why, and perhaps we could visit
Speaker 2: the people in charge. Well, that might motivate.
Speaker 3: And get closed down. Yeah what happened? I think I.
Speaker 2: Would vote otherwise. I'll tell you what I do things
Speaker 2: that mice couldn't do.
Speaker 3: Well, Yeah, sure, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't like if I'm sensing that the food bank
Speaker 1: is like deliveries are slowing down a little bit, probably
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep going and just like see what's up,
Speaker 1: Maybe try to talk to somebody, kind of hand bite it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, obsessed, you should be biting. I just think we
Speaker 3: all should.
Speaker 1: Be biting the hand. We all should have a lot
Speaker 1: of hands as well.
Speaker 3: Get those fingers off one by one. I just really
Speaker 3: hated the like ending with Michael being like talking about
Speaker 3: like a firing Hammond. I don't know, it's just basically
Speaker 3: like it was just so pro capitalism and just like
Speaker 3: that concept of oh, you have to just keep chasing,
Speaker 3: keep chasing, keep chasing, and it's like okay, slow down,
Speaker 3: Like I think it's okay to say, like slow down,
Speaker 3: what is this why is this cheese moving? Like? Is
Speaker 3: this is this a good system for us to be
Speaker 3: living in?
Speaker 2: Like I just I like what I hit on a moment.
Speaker 2: I agree that the okay, questioning who moved my cheese
Speaker 2: is where men and mice. Men and mice defer and
Speaker 2: the fact that if we find out removed it and why,
Speaker 2: we can do something to get a better right, right,
Speaker 2: the mice have to just look elsewhere they have to.
Speaker 2: Their brains are bad.
Speaker 4: But just as a small counter, Okay, Sometimes in life
Speaker 4: there isn't always a satisfying answer that you can tracked
Speaker 4: on of like why your cheese was moved? Like maybe
Speaker 4: your company had mass layoffs. That's nothing you could do
Speaker 4: differently to prove. I mean, unless you were like the
Speaker 4: CEO maybe, But like if you're among the line of
Speaker 4: people that just is like, it's not you personally, right.
Speaker 2: You still have to find your cheese, right, Okay, So
Speaker 2: this is for those specific business moments, is that one?
Speaker 4: But like I think so many times in life that
Speaker 4: is true.
Speaker 2: Okay, someone breaks up with you, you don't want to
Speaker 2: know why.
Speaker 3: I feel like the why is important of Like, I mean,
Speaker 3: I get you're right that it's not always satisfying. Somebody
Speaker 3: could ghost you, you never see them again. Whatever, But
Speaker 3: like it still is, You're still gonna need closure in
Speaker 3: some way from that situation. You're gonna want it, to
Speaker 3: learn a lesson from it. You're not just gonna gonna
Speaker 3: like again, I guess scurry away into the next thing,
Speaker 3: like you're gonna take You're gonna be more cautious. You're
Speaker 3: gonna be like why were there layoffs in that job?
Speaker 3: Do I want to get another similar job because of that?
Speaker 3: The way there was so easily able to throw me aside?
Speaker 1: Like do I want to keep working in TV?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Why am I doing this to myself? Why? Why
Speaker 3: am I doing this?
Speaker 1: Like all the TVs are moldy, and I need to
Speaker 1: investigate further.
Speaker 3: I need to find the hand They they're all gone,
Speaker 3: they're leaving. They look they seem like they've all left
Speaker 3: the United States. There's cheese in the United States.
Speaker 1: Yes, had just smash art cheese.
Speaker 3: Is this is this real cheese or is it artificial
Speaker 3: intelligence cheese?
Speaker 4: Exactly?
Speaker 1: And why are all the cheeses owned by crafts?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 1: You see all kinds of cheeses. Now just craft has
Speaker 1: all the cheeses and they're starting to do pharmacy prescriptions
Speaker 1: as well, concerns us. And again, maybe there's someone we
Speaker 1: need to send to a guillotine that's.
Speaker 4: All insane, yea.
Speaker 3: I mean again, I do think the message of like, okay,
Speaker 3: you you know, moving we need to all move on
Speaker 3: eventually is like simple, simple and sure, but like just
Speaker 3: the way it's wrapped up makes it like so much
Speaker 3: more toxic. I think, no good book.
Speaker 1: Okay, good question though, go.
Speaker 3: Ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say it was frustrating to me
Speaker 2: because I feel like I could have written a much
Speaker 2: more fun people in amaze business parable like using with
Speaker 2: some rules in place of the world like yeah, the
Speaker 2: fuck is you know? I think we all could have.
Speaker 2: I think anyone could have. And so that was frustrating
Speaker 2: too to listen to him do a bad job with
Speaker 2: an idea that could have been interesting or fun even
Speaker 2: you to make them. I want to make them like mice,
Speaker 2: make it fun. It could have been funny.
Speaker 3: Even they could just be two different types of mice.
Speaker 1: They could still they could have all been mice.
Speaker 2: Mice wore running shoes that some of them ice wore
Speaker 2: running shoes. What the fuck was that?
Speaker 1: Do you think they had two running shoes or four
Speaker 1: by the way, because it's they tied their sneakers around
Speaker 1: their neck, so I'm picturing two shoes looped over their neck. Look,
Speaker 1: mice have four feet.
Speaker 3: It's confusing because we're assuming these are real mice, so
Speaker 3: I would say four shoes. But then also, I've never
Speaker 3: seen myce sneakers, so I don't know what this world
Speaker 3: I know it's.
Speaker 4: Really I don't know. I imagine sneakers. They're standing up
Speaker 4: on their back legs.
Speaker 1: Okay, well that's not how a mouse all that's wrong.
Speaker 2: So their nose is now not uh near the ground
Speaker 2: picking up the normal sense that would help the mouse.
Speaker 2: That's I hate what's the author's name? I hate him?
Speaker 3: Spencer.
Speaker 2: I hate Spencer, hate him.
Speaker 4: I do want to Oh sorry, I do really want
Speaker 4: to talk about the construction of this book. We've touched
Speaker 4: on it, but I really need to lay into it
Speaker 4: because I've complimented the book too much.
Speaker 2: Which infuriating amount infuriating him.
Speaker 3: No, I appreciate it. I appreciate. I appreciate it. I
Speaker 3: appreciate the appreciate point of view.
Speaker 2: Bounce off, appreciate it one.
Speaker 4: Okay, the book I read, I assume we all had
Speaker 4: the same version. It starts with an introduction and the
Speaker 4: person doing the introduction is talk about how much they
Speaker 4: like the book, and then they explain what the book is,
Speaker 4: like detailed, explain. It's like it'll be three parts. We
Speaker 4: have people there in their the like college reunion, then
Speaker 4: you'll have the mouse story. Then you'll have the college
Speaker 4: reunion people talking again, and it also tells you like
Speaker 4: the content of the book, and then you you get
Speaker 4: into the story and you're at part one where it's
Speaker 4: the college reunion and they're like, as Sarah touched on
Speaker 4: very brilliantly in her summary, they're very poorly instiltedly talking
Speaker 4: about they're just like saying what the message of the
Speaker 4: story is.
Speaker 3: So then you get right, then you.
Speaker 4: Get the story which is told crazily with the mice
Speaker 4: and the people, and then the people of the college reunion.
Speaker 4: They resume again.
Speaker 3: Then today right.
Speaker 4: To like reflect and it's like you just had this
Speaker 4: conversation yesterday. They have the same conversation again again explaining
Speaker 4: like what the book was and when it meant and
Speaker 4: then and then there was an afterward to the book
Speaker 4: that once again told the story and what it was about,
Speaker 4: and all of this is packed into one hour and
Speaker 4: twenty nine minutes an audio, Like five times six times
Speaker 4: you hear this story?
Speaker 3: Could you hear it more?
Speaker 2: I didn't need the people at college.
Speaker 3: I didn't need that. But oh wait, I didn't really
Speaker 3: like I forgot at the end. I can't remember Carlos
Speaker 3: so what I can't remember which one was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I worked for my family business, but it's gone out
Speaker 3: of business because the big box store. And then he
Speaker 3: was like his takeaway wasn't like anything about like capitalism
Speaker 3: or like you know, Walmart moved in and kicked the
Speaker 3: little guy out. He was just like it was my fault.
Speaker 3: I should we should have done something to prepare when
Speaker 3: it was like, I don't know if there's anything you
Speaker 3: can do to fight Walmart, Like.
Speaker 1: Like you takeaway was like the big box store came
Speaker 1: in and we just kept trying to operate our store.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I don't sorry, that's not.
Speaker 4: The only way out of that situation is to you've
Speaker 4: got mail it. Yeah, fall in love with mister Walton.
Speaker 3: Right, but your business doesn't your business her store is
Speaker 3: still get shut down.
Speaker 4: Though, Yeah, they incorporate you a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you get to have your little corner of the
Speaker 3: big box store. Yeah, sure, you're right.
Speaker 1: What he should have done was as soon as the
Speaker 1: big box store came into town, shut down your business.
Speaker 3: Run.
Speaker 1: Yes, go you know, don't know where, but you get
Speaker 1: out of here.
Speaker 2: Just ship, just ship as you run.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So my big question for you all is are you
Speaker 1: sniff scurry him or haw?
Speaker 3: Wow? We eat Captain one?
Speaker 1: Wet my cheese?
Speaker 2: Gang?
Speaker 4: I okay, maybe this is why I took so much
Speaker 4: from the book.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, my god.
Speaker 1: Do you think of yourself as I think of myself
Speaker 1: as Hem?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Of course, of course.
Speaker 4: The hero no Hem's the stupid one, the one you
Speaker 4: don't want to be.
Speaker 2: Okay, the one who's afraid, doesn't he gets brave, but
Speaker 2: he gets brave, and he's the main character Sabrina.
Speaker 3: Sabrina connect to him because Haim has the main character energy,
Speaker 3: and that's what she was connected to.
Speaker 1: Ham is described as a leggy, yet dusty five seven redhead,
Speaker 1: little little number.
Speaker 3: That's me.
Speaker 2: Five seven is unattractive, So I don't think that would
Speaker 2: ever be in a.
Speaker 3: Discri five middle leaders seven Wait, middle leaders.
Speaker 2: That's how blood is in there. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay, so any takers haw, sniff, scurry.
Speaker 3: I can't be sniff because I have allergies.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll tell you I'm no sniff.
Speaker 2: I guess I'll be sniff, but I don't think it
Speaker 2: really suits me.
Speaker 4: I don't think it suits you either, but probably do
Speaker 4: you guys think I'm also sniff? Do you think I'm
Speaker 4: all the characters?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 2: No? No, no one's.
Speaker 1: Saying that's talking about you.
Speaker 3: Moved on from you. That's crazy.
Speaker 5: It's just like.
Speaker 1: Sarah, I think you're more of a sniff I do
Speaker 1: out of me and Clara, I think you're a bit
Speaker 1: more of a sniff.
Speaker 3: All right, I don't. I don't know whether I feel insulted.
Speaker 3: You don't seem to be giving in any sort of
Speaker 3: positive spin. So it's not me so obviously, that dumb
Speaker 3: fucking mouse that is like fine things? Is it because
Speaker 3: I'm constantly sniffing for a new job because I don't
Speaker 3: have a consistent job out of the four of us.
Speaker 3: If so, I understand your argument, and I don't agree
Speaker 3: that it's fair.
Speaker 1: About it, Well, I'm a little bit more of a scurry.
Speaker 1: Panic sets out. This was the inevitable thing has happened.
Speaker 1: I raised make an immediate, urgent decision. It's a bad one.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was going to be a Hall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess you're wait. Wait is Hall? Wait? Haul
Speaker 3: is the one that Sabrina wanted to be no.
Speaker 4: Room, you know?
Speaker 3: And I'm sorry, I got I thought Sabrina was saying
Speaker 3: she wanted to.
Speaker 4: Be respected as much by.
Speaker 3: The way I was said main character energy.
Speaker 4: I got ye, But I agree that I'm the main
Speaker 4: character kind of regardless of.
Speaker 3: What my I don't have him at all. How I
Speaker 3: was him?
Speaker 2: Wait, now, I'm how you.
Speaker 3: Are.
Speaker 6: Now I take a risk and you throw move to
Speaker 6: New York and moved to It was scary, Okay, I
Speaker 6: love to throw.
Speaker 3: Him to die.
Speaker 2: And if.
Speaker 3: I feel like it, you were the least him. I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: just think.
Speaker 4: You No, I don't feel that way. I feel like
Speaker 4: I'm I'm afraid of change.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 4: And at the end of the book, which this is
Speaker 4: how much I don't know self awareness I have. At
Speaker 4: the end of the book, when they're all chatting amongst
Speaker 4: each other or I don't remember which part it was,
Speaker 4: but it was like when you ask people do you
Speaker 4: think you're afraid of change and everybody's like no, and
Speaker 4: then there then they're like, do you think most other
Speaker 4: people are afraid of change? And they're like yeah, and
Speaker 4: then they're like ha.
Speaker 5: Ha ha.
Speaker 4: Because we don't see it in ourselves, but I see
Speaker 4: it in myself. I am afraid of change.
Speaker 1: Did you cry at any point reading this book?
Speaker 4: I'm on a lot of hormone.
Speaker 3: Can't be blamed. Can't be blamed for that, all right.
Speaker 3: There have been a lot of like a god satire
Speaker 3: parodies to this book. I don't even feel like getting
Speaker 3: into it. It's something interesting. Wow, this book.
Speaker 4: Fuck.
Speaker 3: I'm glad I've never been giving into it. Given this
Speaker 3: book at work.
Speaker 4: I'm glad no one has ever gifted me this book.
Speaker 1: I would be terrified, but remain frozen.
Speaker 3: I need, you know what I need to ask. I
Speaker 3: need to ask my dad if he ever had to employees,
Speaker 3: and if so, I need to have a conversation with him.
Speaker 3: I need to have a deep conversation.
Speaker 2: That's fun because it'll start off really light, like I
Speaker 2: read this club. Did you ever get this to your employees?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be like, you are toxic? You want to go,
Speaker 3: which is fair? Yeah, all right, guys, you ready to
Speaker 3: that's ready for five star reviews? Do it all right?
Speaker 3: Here we go. This one comes from our Chit says
Speaker 3: change or get run over. A great many people have
Speaker 3: recommended this particular one to me. I did not read.
Speaker 3: We might be the best species, but sometimes we overprocess
Speaker 3: adapting and forecasting. Change lurking around the corner is a
Speaker 3: mark of sheer greatness. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: It's so frustrating, Like if he's just trying to say
Speaker 2: we overthink, I really think a different metaphor would.
Speaker 3: Here, and he says verdict. Spencer Johnson hits the bullseye
Speaker 3: in a sixty minute book. Wow, it was confusing because
Speaker 3: you said he didn't read it, but.
Speaker 2: Then reviewed it fifty minutes.
Speaker 3: Kat can't believe it took me only about an hour
Speaker 3: to finish this book. Wow, this book is truly what
Speaker 3: I need finishing it.
Speaker 1: Thank you to the author for quotes every time I
Speaker 1: say book is a book.
Speaker 3: I know they love. Thank you to the author for
Speaker 3: such an inspired and motivational story. Maybe it's finally time
Speaker 3: I realized it's necessary for me to find my own
Speaker 3: cheese and get into that maze out there. Smiley face.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we want to get into the maze. I'm not
Speaker 2: currently in and I wish I was in amaze. Pissed.
Speaker 3: I'm pissed. No, we should be pissed, I says, I'm
Speaker 3: in love with this book. It's really really will help
Speaker 3: me with my career and personal and personal. I will
Speaker 3: read it a long time. I write, sorry, it's not
Speaker 3: the best grammar. I read it a long time ago.
Speaker 3: But as they say, better late than never. What that
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense?
Speaker 4: That's better for me to write this review than never?
Speaker 3: Oh that much? Okay, okay, okay, all right, sure, but
Speaker 3: they're in love with it, all right? So yeah, again,
Speaker 3: I can't believe people like this book.
Speaker 4: It's I'm thinking about that review. Maybe the last episode
Speaker 4: or the person was like, I can't believe I never
Speaker 4: wrote a good Reads review on that.
Speaker 3: Wow, I want to. It's it's just such a half
Speaker 3: thought that I'm glad we experienced it with them, all right,
Speaker 3: you guys ready for hate rates?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just do it zero to five.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: I know it was short. I know it was short,
Speaker 2: but it was really annoying and it was so short
Speaker 2: that I sort of had my expectations of an instant
Speaker 2: of it to be instant, not painful. Here we go,
Speaker 2: We're done, but we were never done. It still went,
Speaker 2: it still lasted, It was still unpleasant. I still had
Speaker 2: to be like, I still finish the book like that
Speaker 2: still happened to me.
Speaker 3: Zeroo five Yeah, oh good.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it a one out of five for
Speaker 1: the reason of tricking me into thinking it would be
Speaker 1: easier to read than it would because it was so short. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like same boat as Clara. It's just rude to be
Speaker 1: that short. And then but you're you are still time
Speaker 1: and I didn't like that.
Speaker 3: This is interesting. I'm also gonna give it a one
Speaker 3: out of five. I actually think it gets a point
Speaker 3: because it's so short. I didn't have any issues get
Speaker 3: fighting that hour and a half or whatever to read
Speaker 3: the book. I understood it. But I also like, I
Speaker 3: guess part within that point is I do think there's
Speaker 3: some kernels of maybe something like try not to be
Speaker 3: afraid to move on. I don't know. It's not necessarily
Speaker 3: a bad thing, but the whole story was so poorly written.
Speaker 3: It was entertaining. It was almost like fun because it
Speaker 3: was so bad. Yeah, that's to make me think I
Speaker 3: should push it to two. I'm gonna keep Oh, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna push it to one and a half. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: push it to one and a half because I thought
Speaker 3: this was fun. I thought it was so bad it
Speaker 3: was it got to be a little fun.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go three out of five. One point certainly
Speaker 4: for the brevity, one point for I listen. I think
Speaker 4: there was something to get out of this if you,
Speaker 4: you know, if you just if you look past the
Speaker 4: toxicity of the positivity, I think there's value in the positivity.
Speaker 2: Whole book.
Speaker 5: This is my time.
Speaker 2: Well, I just had a question I thought you could
Speaker 2: answer in your time. Now I'm vamping.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, look it it being a
Speaker 4: pamphlet that made its way onto the New York Times
Speaker 4: Bestseller thus qualifying it as a New York Times book
Speaker 4: that we could read. Incredible, truly a feat of genius.
Speaker 4: And for the thing that Sarah said at the end there,
Speaker 4: the truly horrific writing really amped it up and made
Speaker 4: it a good time for me.
Speaker 3: You can use the word change so many times like
Speaker 3: a paragraph. It was like change. We didn't read any
Speaker 3: of it I feel I mean, this is partly probably
Speaker 3: because we'd all did audiobook and it wasn't easy to
Speaker 3: pull quotes, but like, we really probably could have read
Speaker 3: half this book in this podcast.
Speaker 1: I actually think I could have read the entire book
Speaker 1: in the length of this.
Speaker 3: Podcast fully and just laughed and laughed as we read.
Speaker 3: All Right, I guess it's it's time for little fucker
Speaker 3: of the cast.
Speaker 2: Look around, Johnny. You were really funny tonight. Everyone was funny. Johnny,
Speaker 2: you were like unusual for you. Level. No, I'm trying
Speaker 2: not to insult the others. Well, I tell you you
Speaker 2: were really funny.
Speaker 1: To come and insult to me sort of, but no,
Speaker 1: I'm process.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, you understand what I'm trying to do. I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to I'm trying to see.
Speaker 3: That you were feel like you're trying to do something.
Speaker 3: It didn't seem like you're.
Speaker 2: Trying to try to tell you were funny with Lara
Speaker 2: making it seem like the other people weren't funny.
Speaker 3: Yes, Clara, Clara, Clara, can you remind me when you
Speaker 3: were earlier you made you said something, then you then
Speaker 3: I said something, and then instead of continuing, you were
Speaker 3: like let me go back to what I said, and
Speaker 3: let me say it again. Do you remember what you
Speaker 3: were talking about something about It.
Speaker 1: Was the metaphor of the food food.
Speaker 3: Bank, right, and you were like they should be asking
Speaker 3: why the food bank's gone, right, like what happened to
Speaker 3: the food bank? And you're like, that's it. And I
Speaker 3: just wanted to say I'm voting for you.
Speaker 2: Because I thought I was.
Speaker 3: Because you were. You came back to say something as
Speaker 3: though it was an original point, and I'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: I had said multiple times the point that the question
Speaker 3: who moved the cheese is a very good question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought I was backing you up. I thought
Speaker 2: it was explaining it to Sabrina, who.
Speaker 3: I'm sticking with my guns. It felt like it felt
Speaker 3: like you were coming up with your own original point point.
Speaker 2: My intent, I thought. I not my intent I.
Speaker 5: Was.
Speaker 2: I thought I had a nice way of explaining it
Speaker 2: for those two Thick the hit Okay, what you're saying.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take this time to get my vote, which
Speaker 4: before this was going to be Clara. But that is
Speaker 4: super Clara for calling me stupid, I said, thick in
Speaker 4: the head.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, you also said you.
Speaker 4: Were backing her off to explain a point that I
Speaker 4: wasn't getting, as though I was just too dumb to
Speaker 4: understand the point. It seemed like that was the situation,
Speaker 4: but my mind original, the book, my original. Oh and
Speaker 4: then also you interrupted my my vote for my hate rate,
Speaker 4: but the original reason was the hate incident and.
Speaker 1: My god.
Speaker 2: Refusing to Clara, do you want to change your vote?
Speaker 3: I mean I kind of wish I could. I you're
Speaker 3: you're gonna get me about that? I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: We going to ask through Patreon. We want to do
Speaker 2: more polls on Patreon. We can ask who was confused
Speaker 2: about the spelling of someone talking about a t shop
Speaker 2: called hay t Yeah, and it will prove our point
Speaker 2: nicely that no one wants.
Speaker 1: Serena. I want to say thank you very much. Reminded
Speaker 1: me of the hay Tea incident. My vote is already
Speaker 1: patting to Clara. But let's just say it started there
Speaker 1: and it went downhill.
Speaker 2: This is such bush.
Speaker 3: I don't usually vote first, but why now?
Speaker 2: This is ridiculous because of the hay Tea incident. Are
Speaker 2: you talking about how do you spell it?
Speaker 3: You didn't know?
Speaker 4: And when you listen to the transfer, why you think
Speaker 4: When you first asked the question, you didn't say it
Speaker 4: was a T shop. You said it was a jug question,
Speaker 4: and you said, have you guys heard of hay tea?
Speaker 4: And then I.
Speaker 2: Talked about Then I talked, well, you said you.
Speaker 4: Could get cream, cheese, foam, But it wasn't. It just
Speaker 4: wasn't as clear as you thought it was, and you
Speaker 4: kept insisting into this hate moment for it.
Speaker 3: Look, I understand, I'm clear, still needs to put her
Speaker 3: vote in, but it is I understand, we understand Claire
Speaker 3: a little fuck of the gas, but I would.
Speaker 4: She is not.
Speaker 3: This hate tea thing is very silly. It was very
Speaker 3: clear what hay tea what most likely stood for, Like
Speaker 3: I don't I still don't under Are you really arguing
Speaker 3: that it's h ai t Like what are you right
Speaker 3: now saying?
Speaker 4: First of all, hey has multiple common spellings, tea has
Speaker 4: multiple commons, and haiti is its own word.
Speaker 3: That is not. But when you're talking about even if
Speaker 3: we're even if you didn't hear the tea shop for
Speaker 3: some reason, we're talking about drinks, Okay, the concept spelling
Speaker 3: you're talking about, that's easy. Hey, are you honestly are
Speaker 3: you're talking about h a y T.
Speaker 4: I see, okay, that's just what what am I thinking about?
Speaker 2: But then I said, it's just what it's like it is,
Speaker 2: hey t, it's normal, like it is normal. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: works when you're saying there's no funny app like spelling
Speaker 2: of this that.
Speaker 1: When you said that, Sam, that's that's a problem.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just that we're so.
Speaker 4: Well read that like we Jesus, you know, we just
Speaker 4: have a bigger vocabulary.
Speaker 2: I don't know my hate rape is I mean, my
Speaker 2: little fucker is Sabrina The reasons really frustrating the way
Speaker 2: she defended the book really frustrating right now, Yeah, want
Speaker 2: to hold her head underwater, not to death, just a
Speaker 2: little bit, jolo jo close second, Okay, Sarah's a close third.
Speaker 4: You're mad at everyone?
Speaker 1: What's your second? Third, fourth? Little fucker? There's no need
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: No, there wasn't a need.
Speaker 3: Claire, Claire was voted little fucker. She's calm down, she's
Speaker 3: allowed to lash out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe Claire.
Speaker 4: We're usually not on opposite sides, were usually not, so
Speaker 4: this does make prettiest princess hard.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, No, we're not doing it. Last time.
Speaker 4: The lie Just remember that pumped full of hormones. So
Speaker 4: if I don't get it, I'll probably.
Speaker 2: Be really sad I'm voting for myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow, well I actually almost just cried.
Speaker 2: The prettiest princess on this cast.
Speaker 1: I guess I remember I used to be like you,
Speaker 1: and I used to get vote a little fucker. You know,
Speaker 1: I'd lash out, I would come for people later and
Speaker 1: like pass and you know, I'll just tell you good luck.
Speaker 3: For the next cheese.
Speaker 2: Is that the John is trying to bring up when
Speaker 2: she was a little funker the one time she's not
Speaker 2: voted for it, she brings up how she's.
Speaker 1: Saying that's in my passage review obviously, But you know,
Speaker 1: I just I see, you see the mistakes are less
Speaker 1: mature little fucker might make. And I'm just worn to you,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: Claire on the wall?
Speaker 3: Can we please? Are you little princess? Who? No, No,
Speaker 3: if it's tied, there's no little princess.
Speaker 4: It's it's me And that's the ring because implement the
Speaker 4: rules whenever you want, as long as you're still in
Speaker 4: the game. And I just did it.
Speaker 3: Okay, dude, clarity.
Speaker 2: Yourself to me.
Speaker 1: So if it's for yourself.
Speaker 3: So Claire, it's clear you can now invent a rule
Speaker 3: that when Sabrina talks, what it means is opposite.
Speaker 1: Doing this.
Speaker 3: You didn't say that before.
Speaker 4: Now I know we did, really, Clara didn't.
Speaker 3: You can't but listen to me. That's the second rule though,
Speaker 3: So that doesn't that rule, doesn't that role?
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, no, no, I feel like we
Speaker 2: all knew you couldn't do another one, and that's why
Speaker 2: I felt weird about it. So yeah, so that's why
Speaker 2: I stayed silent.
Speaker 1: Anything.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't be right if you abuse that.
Speaker 2: If you abuse that.
Speaker 3: Gentlemen made up all right, guys, I have no idea. Well,
Speaker 3: check us out on Patreon. Become a patron like are
Speaker 3: our good friend Patty winjub if you could like that
Speaker 3: last name.
Speaker 2: By the way, it's got a sound to it.
Speaker 3: I think everyone or John and Sabrina know why. I'm
Speaker 3: suspicious of it being a fake right, No, Benjamin Benjamin
Speaker 3: John Wyndam.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is a fake name at all.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's weird because when we were in
Speaker 3: college we used to chant the name Benjamin John.
Speaker 4: But that's a real person. But is a real person.
Speaker 3: But it's still to me. Why did you chance good?
Speaker 3: Don't remember at all.
Speaker 4: Benjamin John.
Speaker 1: It's just a good name, Benjamin John.
Speaker 2: Wenjam your friend, you know.
Speaker 4: But he was like he generally like you know how
Speaker 4: people have.
Speaker 3: That.
Speaker 4: He was our great friend.
Speaker 1: Anyway, all right, guys.
Speaker 3: I don't know what book we're doing next? All right,
Speaker 3: next episode we have Beautiful Ugly Bye. Who's a bye?
Speaker 3: Alice Feeney, Oh, nailed it, Alice Feenie. Oh that's a
Speaker 3: good one, spooky.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I believe very good.
Speaker 3: Next episode we have Jimmy Jimmy Buffett book? Right?
Speaker 4: Where is Joe Merchant?
Speaker 3: Oh? Joe didn't know he was a writer? Interested to
Speaker 3: see that one? Read it, listen to it. I'll problem
Speaker 3: Wait does that one have one you could listen to? It?
Speaker 3: May be so I don't know that I have to
Speaker 3: read the book. Oh god, Well, good luck to us
Speaker 3: and to you and uh yeah, that's it for the cast.
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time. Thank you guys so much
Speaker 3: for joining us.
Speaker 5: Bye bye.
Speaker 1: As