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<v Speaker 1>All right, Kyla, welcome to the show. Thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for coming on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell me about your book. It Fetishized or Reckoning

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<v Speaker 1>with Yellow Fever, feminism and beauty. It talks about pop

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<v Speaker 1>culture and the way it both it fetishizes Asian women

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<v Speaker 1>as well as how that's tied into colonization. It's a fascinating,

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating book.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So the book is called Fetishize. It's about the

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<v Speaker 2>fetishization of Asian women and my personal experiences with it.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a memoir and it's like a series of

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<v Speaker 2>essays covering a lot of the media that influenced me

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<v Speaker 2>growing up that was fetishy. It turns out like memoirs

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<v Speaker 2>of a geisha, super problematic, hairs Yuku Girls, the Fast

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<v Speaker 2>and Furious series. So yeah, I delve into different media.

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<v Speaker 2>And my personal background with it is that I used

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<v Speaker 2>to be a pin up model like decades ago, and

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of played into the fetishization or like objectification

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<v Speaker 2>of women for the male gaze. So the book kind

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<v Speaker 2>of is a reckoning of my own like just questioning

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<v Speaker 2>some of my choices and some of the cultural influences

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<v Speaker 2>that shaped me at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're I was reading some of the promo copy

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<v Speaker 1>and it says, no one has fetishized you more than

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<v Speaker 1>you can you explain expound upon that well.

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<v Speaker 2>So growing up in I grew up in a city

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<v Speaker 2>called Upland, California. It's a very small suburb in like

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<v Speaker 2>forty miles east of Los Angeles, and I was like

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<v Speaker 2>nerdy and the boys didn't pay attention to me, and

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<v Speaker 2>like I didn't get asked to any dances, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just I really was boy crazy and boys were interested

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<v Speaker 2>in me, in me at all, they didn't find me

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<v Speaker 2>attractive or whatever. So I think during that age, I

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<v Speaker 2>just really had a hunger for acceptance because I felt

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<v Speaker 2>invisible when Another influence growing up is the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>there were no Asian female influences when I was in

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<v Speaker 2>elementary school. I can't even really name one. This was

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<v Speaker 2>before Lucy Lou, so I don't even know who was, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there wasn't a superstar before her. And then

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have any role models. And I discovered this

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<v Speaker 2>playboy model online named Sunghi Lee, beautiful Korean woman, and

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<v Speaker 2>all the boys were in love with her, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, that's who I want to be like

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of brings me to representation. Like if I

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<v Speaker 2>had more choices of people to look up to, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>I would have pursued something different. But I decided I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to be a playboy model, and then I ended

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<v Speaker 2>up objectifying myself because I I wanted the male gaze.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't have the male gaze whatsoever, Right, so I

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<v Speaker 2>I just fully played into it. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so let's talk about pop culture. Because I

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<v Speaker 1>was born in eighty two, My memories of seeing Asian

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<v Speaker 1>women are you know, very one note up until even

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<v Speaker 1>you know, not very recently you talk, I mean, when

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<v Speaker 1>you go back to even like the Rush Hour movies,

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<v Speaker 1>those are in you know, the two thousands, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just like you mentioned, you use the word

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<v Speaker 1>a lot where when you talk about fetization, it's about

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<v Speaker 1>dehumanization as well as how it makes people less human.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I look back on a lot of media,

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<v Speaker 1>it's very clear Asian people weren't treated as human in

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<v Speaker 1>Western media until very very recently, shockingly recently.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, yeah, the Rush Hour series was just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like I was pursuing acting at that time,

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<v Speaker 2>and every role was like you had to pretend you

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<v Speaker 2>had a broke in English accent, which I'm really bad at,

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<v Speaker 2>so I never got any of those auditions, and then

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<v Speaker 2>like the rest were for massage parlor girls or prostitutes

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<v Speaker 2>or kung fu fighters, so those were like the only options.

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<v Speaker 2>And the massage parlor seeing I bring up also in

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<v Speaker 2>my book in Rush Hour because it's like Chris Tucker

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<v Speaker 2>is just referring to the women as a buffet basically,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's like, I'm so excited for this, I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to choose that one, that one, that one, that one,

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<v Speaker 2>and that kind of just embodies what the stereotype of

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<v Speaker 2>Asian women like objects that could be disposable and interchangeable.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And it's also bizarre because it's like there's this desire,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's also the same criticism of the very features

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<v Speaker 1>of Asian ness in the women as well. Not to

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<v Speaker 1>jump ahead of twenty thirty years when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>pop culture, but Love Island there was a controversy because

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<v Speaker 1>one of the contestants was using an a Asians, a

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<v Speaker 1>slur for Asian people to describe her body features, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, directly about the bodies of Asian women,

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<v Speaker 1>and the response for a lot of people was this

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<v Speaker 1>isn't a slur, there's nothing wrong with saying this, And

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<v Speaker 1>you wrote about this for uh was it a vogue.

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<v Speaker 2>For a teen vogue Vogueeah? Yeah, it's crazy. So many

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<v Speaker 2>people don't think that it's a slur, aren't aware, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that has to do with like Asian American

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<v Speaker 2>history is not taught in school, so like they're simply ignorant.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not mad at them for like not knowing, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's interesting because like maybe five years ago, there was

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<v Speaker 2>a trend on TikTok, the fox eye trend, where everyone

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to have Asian eyes, and then there was

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<v Speaker 2>controversy because the girls, uh, like I think it's Bella

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<v Speaker 2>Hadid and some other some Kardashian or something, they were

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<v Speaker 2>like doing the pulling eyes thing. That's a racist gesture actually,

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<v Speaker 2>But then in that sense and then this gets into

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<v Speaker 2>cultural appropriation, which I think sometimes has been taken too far.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's just like women who are not Asian can

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<v Speaker 2>come and say, oh, I choose that feature. I like

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<v Speaker 2>it right now, but they don't have to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>any of the like racism that we've had to face

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<v Speaker 2>about our eyes. But they can like pick and choose

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<v Speaker 2>the features they want to highlight or take for themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I see a lot of this in pop culture,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of path to congratulate my Asian brothers and sisters,

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<v Speaker 1>because there used to be just a pop singers will

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<v Speaker 1>go through a black phase, but now there are also

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<v Speaker 1>some of them are going through an Asian.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely. I mean, I think Gwen Stefani is really kind

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<v Speaker 2>of one of the prime examples of that probably, and

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<v Speaker 2>I cover her in the book They Harris Yuku Girls

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<v Speaker 2>because I loved them growing up because there were no

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<v Speaker 2>Asians on MTV, so it was so exciting, like even

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<v Speaker 2>though they were bowing down to Gwen Stefani and they

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<v Speaker 2>weren't allowed to speak, like at least they were in

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<v Speaker 2>cool outfits and they were dancing at the MTV Movie Awards.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I see four Japanese girls.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh god, they might be my inspiration.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that might be my inspiration. You're feeling them

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<v Speaker 2>or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it works wonderfully.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. How do you feel it's coming? She seems happy.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember seeing them on TV. It's like like, this

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<v Speaker 1>is interesting, there's Japanese people on TV. Shame they aren't

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<v Speaker 1>speaking or say anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they they were so stylish and their makeup

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<v Speaker 2>was so good, and you know, like they they were cool.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, uh and I don't think Gwen Stefani actually

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<v Speaker 2>do kind of believe her that she is trying to celebrate,

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<v Speaker 2>but she's she's not, I guess maybe willing to listen

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<v Speaker 2>to criticism.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, yes, Okay, So let's talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about Fast and Furious. So you were actually in Tokyo

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<v Speaker 1>Drift version as a import model, and that's a job

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<v Speaker 1>that's something you did in a real life as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So actually, let's back it up. What is import modeling?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I feel like it was something that was very

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<v Speaker 1>big for a while. Maybe it's not so prominent in

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<v Speaker 1>the culture now, but I also but I also like

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<v Speaker 1>how you kind of document the women who were in it,

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<v Speaker 1>because I think that's something important because they were a

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<v Speaker 1>part of culture and their history should be document Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Import models just basically are models that model with Japanese

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<v Speaker 2>import cars or Asian import cars, because I guess every

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<v Speaker 2>Asian knows what an import model is, but most people

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<v Speaker 2>who are not have no idea what an import model is. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>during the early two lesands. There was just a huge scene.

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<v Speaker 2>Asians had no real community, I guess, and then car

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<v Speaker 2>shows became a place where they could gather at home.

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<v Speaker 2>They would the men would fix up their cars and

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<v Speaker 2>then bring them to the shows and like compete in

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<v Speaker 2>competitions and races, and these took place all across the country,

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<v Speaker 2>and then the models became really popular at the shows,

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<v Speaker 2>and this very subculture and I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people don't know this inspired the Fast and Furious franchise.

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<v Speaker 2>Like the first one, they consulted with our j Devera

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<v Speaker 2>de la Vera, who is like a prominent member in

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<v Speaker 2>prominent import scene person and other people they consulted with

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<v Speaker 2>people from this scene. And then eventually as the series

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<v Speaker 2>has gone on, they've like gone in a totally different direction.

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<v Speaker 2>But I kind of wanted to highlight, Yeah, they're in space.

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<v Speaker 2>It is what everybody points out now, So I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think they really have to do with cars. It's like

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<v Speaker 2>a crime fighting show or movie now. But I just

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<v Speaker 2>don't want it to be forgotten, like where the roots are,

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<v Speaker 2>because it is like the biggest franchise Universal Pictures has

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<v Speaker 2>ever had.

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<v Speaker 1>So you talk a lot about different pop culture on

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<v Speaker 1>your TikTok feed, which is amazing. I highly recommend people

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<v Speaker 1>check it out as a great preview for your book. Fetishized,

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<v Speaker 1>available everywhere on August nineteenth. But one of the things

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned about, you know, the street racing culture, you're

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<v Speaker 1>actually in a video game and it brings us back

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<v Speaker 1>to fetticization. You're in a video game as a girlfriend

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<v Speaker 1>that you can win in that. Yeah, in street racing,

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<v Speaker 1>Street racing, Sindica Condicutt.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this was a show. There's a video game

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<v Speaker 2>that was out on Namco, I believe, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of based on like need for speed, except like

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<v Speaker 2>you could win girlfriends. So like every time you win

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<v Speaker 2>a race, I think you can unlock a girlfriend. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just basically we were told as a models. I think

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<v Speaker 2>there were like twenty models to show up at the

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<v Speaker 2>shoot and we had to dance against a green screen.

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<v Speaker 2>You would start off in like jeans and a crop

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<v Speaker 2>top and then go to like jeans and a minisk

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<v Speaker 2>or mini skirt and like crop top and then a

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<v Speaker 2>bikini so you could unlock all these videos of your girlfriends.

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<v Speaker 2>But the goal was to collect as many girlfriends as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was just like why can't you just win

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<v Speaker 2>one girlfriends like you haven't hear them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that actually is fairly common in video games and

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<v Speaker 1>players like that, picking one.

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<v Speaker 2>To Yeah, you win the princess, like the Mario Brothers

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<v Speaker 2>wins the princess at the end. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, Kylie, you also talk about some of the

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<v Speaker 1>really negative and tragic consequences of fatization and how it

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<v Speaker 1>could have some really serious consequences for actual Asian women.

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<v Speaker 1>You were friends with a woman named Felicia Tang and

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<v Speaker 1>True crime fans may know this as the Horrific Tied

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<v Speaker 1>chapter known as the porn Star and the Preacher, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and you've written about how that Kyle, besides being offensive

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<v Speaker 1>just outright offensive, was also not true and part of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, this fetization of Asian women. And you personally

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<v Speaker 1>knew Felicia.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe, Yes, yeah, I knew her like acquaintances. We

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<v Speaker 2>weren't close friends, but we were very friendly and I

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<v Speaker 2>really liked her and she was very sweet. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the whole thing is like calling Felicia a porn star

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<v Speaker 2>is like calling Pamela Anderson a portn star. Neither of

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<v Speaker 2>them are porn stars. But I think, like, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know in her death, it just felt like they were

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<v Speaker 2>reaching for the headlines and like treated her again as

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<v Speaker 2>disposable and dehumanized her, and like how it must have

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<v Speaker 2>been for her family to read these kind of headlines

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<v Speaker 2>and like for people to search for that decades later

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<v Speaker 2>and still be able to find those headlines, And she

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be remembered like that because she's simply was not

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<v Speaker 2>a born star.

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<v Speaker 1>We're still seeing this do humanization even in very popular

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<v Speaker 1>things today, White Lotus the most talked about seeing from

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<v Speaker 1>I Believe, Season three featured Sam Rockwell I Believe, an

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar winning actor, given a speech about how he went

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<v Speaker 1>to Thailand as a sexual tourist and slept with thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of women, so many that he felt like he wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to become an Asian woman and sleep with himself.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a very strange conclusion. Yeah, but I think

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<v Speaker 2>the show did a good job of bringing more awareness

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<v Speaker 2>to this issue because it introduced me to terms I've

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<v Speaker 2>never even heard of. Like there's a term in South

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<v Speaker 2>Asian countries, Southeast Asian countries called loser back home, and

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<v Speaker 2>it refers to like these old men, usually white, I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>who go to Thailand and they could never get a

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<v Speaker 2>hot girl in their own country, they're not wealthy enough

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. But you know these are sometimes third world

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<v Speaker 2>countries they're going to, so the dollar goes really far.

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<v Speaker 2>And you see these like past midly pass for others

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<v Speaker 2>like dating these like nineteen year olds who are extremely beautiful,

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<v Speaker 2>but they just go and do what Sam Rockwell did.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, just like go through as many women as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like they'll sign up for tours. I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>tours available, like sex tourism tours. I could jump into

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<v Speaker 2>like what the history of colonialism is, well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes we got to do that, yes, yes, yes so,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course that sexual tourism ties into how all

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<v Speaker 1>of this ties to colonialism and how you address that

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<v Speaker 1>in your book, because that's kind of what the thing

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<v Speaker 1>that really got to me is, like, oh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>all tied together. This is not you know, separate. What's

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<v Speaker 1>happened because you Minch is mentioned like Full Metal Jacket

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<v Speaker 1>and the Vietnam War and how the literal colonization of

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<v Speaker 1>that country led to featherization of Asian women even in

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<v Speaker 1>anti war films.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, the sex tourism industry today in

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<v Speaker 2>some of those countries has its origins in war because

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<v Speaker 2>the government had a program where when soldiers were done fighting,

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<v Speaker 2>they would be sent to rest and restitution, which basically

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<v Speaker 2>meant getting sent to like another Asian country where there

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<v Speaker 2>were prostitutes available. So that was kind of in a

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<v Speaker 2>way there rereward, like not formally, but that was basically

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<v Speaker 2>how it was set up. And it was the soldiers

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<v Speaker 2>I think would joke that it stood for rape and

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<v Speaker 2>restitution or like they used to call Filipino women who

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<v Speaker 2>could be bought for the price of a cigarette back then,

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<v Speaker 2>little brown fucking machine powered by rice, and that was

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<v Speaker 2>like an acronym that they would put on T shirts

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<v Speaker 2>that everybody knew what this was referring to. Yeah, the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that the sex tourism industry is still thriving today,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I don't know the figures off the

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<v Speaker 2>top of my head. It's been millions and millions of

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<v Speaker 2>dollars of like single mail generated sex tourism is still

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<v Speaker 2>going to Thailand.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, let's see. So you talk. You talk in your

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<v Speaker 1>book about how you personally struggle with this, and I

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<v Speaker 1>love in your writing how vulnerable you are, how you

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<v Speaker 1>talk about how like these messages still bother you and

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<v Speaker 1>still get to you sometimes how you and I want

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<v Speaker 1>to just ask you, like, as someone like as a model,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how it makes you feel being fetishized constantly

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<v Speaker 1>in the industry. How to make you feel about yourself

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<v Speaker 1>and how your body and how your relationship with that,

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<v Speaker 1>how you kind of deal with that on a personal level.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Honestly, for a young woman back then who was

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<v Speaker 2>felt invisible and powerless, that attention was very powerful and

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<v Speaker 2>addicting because when you're in your early twenties, you're taught

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<v Speaker 2>that like youth and beauty are your superpower in a

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<v Speaker 2>patriarchal society. That's like how it's built. The only thing

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<v Speaker 2>that you don't realize is that this is only like

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<v Speaker 2>a temporary past. There's always a new freshure model behind you.

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<v Speaker 2>And as a very temporarily like it doesn't really I

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<v Speaker 2>just had a deep sense of need for like self

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<v Speaker 2>worth and love, and that validation felt like it was

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<v Speaker 2>filling that, but it did not. You know, it was

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<v Speaker 2>only a temporary thing, and ultimately I still had to

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<v Speaker 2>go and like discover my own self love and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that that kind of attention is never deeply fulfilling.

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<v Speaker 1>It's temporary awesome message Feathershot. Bye, Kylie you thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for coming on Struggle Session. I really appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>talking with you about this. You have a fascinating story

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<v Speaker 1>of fascinating book, please check out. I recommend everyone check

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<v Speaker 1>out your TikTok page as well, because you put a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of cool stuff on there every day. Where can

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<v Speaker 1>people find you and where can you find the book?

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, my name's Kayla Yu and you can find

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<v Speaker 2>me by my name on all platforms and my website,

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<v Speaker 2>and the book will be dropping on August nineteenth at

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<v Speaker 2>all bookstores, so you could just find it anywhere. Audiobook

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<v Speaker 2>also available.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, folks that was Struggle Session, have a good one. Peace,