WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.080 Seven hundl W How you doing, Gary, Jeff Walker. Good 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:10.199 evening on this Monday night, October the twenty first. We 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:15.800 are just barely two weeks away from election day, so 4 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:20.800 there's a lot going on, you think, a lot at stake, absolutely, 5 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:24.519 But I wanted to talk to you about something else 6 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.199 at the top of tonight's show that has been a 7 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:31.039 very very personal kind of issue for me and my 8 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:36.119 family and for millions of people women and men across 9 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.920 the country. October, as you know, is Breast cancer Awareness Month, 10 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.359 and we're here nearing the tail end of this special 11 00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:47.719 month set aside for awareness for women and for men 12 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:52.960 to get screened, particularly for breast cancer, the Pink Ribbon 13 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:56.759 month of the year and all of that. And it 14 00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:59.679 was a couple of years ago that my wife and 15 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:02.399 I got the news that yes, she indeed did have 16 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:06.560 a tumor in her right breast. It was caught early. 17 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.799 After being bugged by her doctor to go and get 18 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:13.879 the enhanced mammograms, she finally did and they found it. 19 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:19.079 Thank god, it was only one point five centimeters. But 20 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.959 when it's cancer, it doesn't matter how small it is. 21 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:26.799 It needs to be addressed and taken care of. Now 22 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.799 Another Praise God moment for us was when we went 23 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:36.280 into the doctor's office and doctor Michael Gunther was our 24 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.400 doctor at Saint Elizabeth there in Edgewood. 25 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:41.040 Great guy. 26 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:44.920 I told this story before, but we were still in 27 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.519 the middle of COVID protocols, especially in hospitals. We get 28 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.879 into the room with doctor Gunther and it's just to 29 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:54.319 the two of us and the doctor and a nurse 30 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.120 and he said, do you feel like wearing these masks? 31 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.480 And we go no. Oh. 32 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:02.920 He said, please take them off, and he took his 33 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:05.319 off and we were all more comfortable. And then he 34 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:10.159 got out the monitor to show us exactly where they 35 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:16.039 had located the tumor in the enhanced resonance imaging. And 36 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.479 you know what they planned to do, the plan of attack, 37 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.759 and he never suggested radiation or chemotherapy, not once. He 38 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:29.919 didn't think it was necessary. He said, let's do the operation. 39 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.960 And what wound up happening is the operation occurred. They 40 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.080 got it all. They took out a lymph node next 41 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.240 to where the tumor was in my wife's breast, all good, 42 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:47.520 and then there was radiation, which was anybody who's been 43 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:51.639 through a radiation regimen knows that it can be really 44 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:55.039 tiring because they take you five days in a row 45 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:56.439 or six days in a row, and then you do 46 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:56.800 it the. 47 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.960 Next week every day for a few minutes. 48 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:07.240 Discolored my wife's right breasts and the hair stopped growing 49 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:10.719 under a white arm, right arm. But the cancer was gone, 50 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:14.159 and that's all that we cared about, truly, all that 51 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:14.879 we cared about. 52 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.439 So in the aftermath. 53 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.479 It's been almost two years now since she rang the 54 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.560 bell and was declared cancer free, and she is going 55 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:32.120 back on Thursday this week for another mammogram. And the 56 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:35.439 only reason I tell you all this is just another 57 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:41.520 testimonial of someone who's been personally affected by it. My family, yours, 58 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:46.199 maybe two. But for those who don't know and haven't 59 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.120 gotten screened, I know there is a percentage of people, 60 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.360 and I tend to be one of them of suiting 61 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:55.400 certain things that. 62 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.120 Just is afraid of what they'll find out. 63 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.080 Well, the point of the matter is if they find 64 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.719 out early like they did with my wife's breast cancer, 65 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:10.199 you know, she may never have to deal with that. 66 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.120 We may never have to deal with that ever again 67 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:17.759 in our lives. Again, praise God moment here, but just 68 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:22.879 go do it. If you're I don't care what age 69 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:28.199 you are, and you haven't been screened, especially for women, 70 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.759 if you haven't gotten the enhanced Mammograham. 71 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.439 Go do it. 72 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:35.279 It literally can save your life. Not everybody's outcome is 73 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:38.720 the same as my wife's, and I understand that, but 74 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.319 the early screening was the biggest component. That and having 75 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:46.839 a great doctor and staff at STY and just people 76 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.720 that really cared a lot. And all of the prayers 77 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:54.519 that many of you said in petition for my wife 78 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.279 and for us. So I thank you again for those. 79 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.560 Mind you, if you haven't done it yet, get checked. 80 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:10.160 It really can mean everything to you. On the show tonight, 81 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:13.639 David Bonson Kevin Shipp, a former CIA agent who says 82 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.800 that the CIA not only medals in foreign elections, but 83 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.439 has been playing dirty politics in our elections and their 84 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:27.160 chosen candidate is Kamala Harris. Yeah, Carter Wren, who was 85 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:32.000 a GOP political strategist. Michael Levine, the promotions guru, pr 86 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:37.600 guru who always has some interesting thoughts. Sergeant Betsy brenttn 87 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.720 Or Smith will be here from the National Police Association, 88 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:46.040 Wildman Walker, and in this half hour, Tom Claven who's 89 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:50.639 got a brand new book called Bandit Heaven about the 90 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.959 Hole in the Wall, gangs and the end of the 91 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.120 wild West criminal spreeze that we have heard so much 92 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.399 about in history. He's got a brand new book, nonfiction. 93 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:07.360 He is the nonfiction Louis Lemore of wild West history, 94 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:11.879 and he will be with us on this nightcap David 95 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:13.360 Bonson coming up next. 96 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.319 You're on seven hundred WLW. 97 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:21.800 Open up our live stream on the iHeartRadio app and 98 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.040 take a look at the screen. You see that little 99 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.240 red circle with a microphone on it. That's our talkback feature. 100 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.439 Push it and send us your thoughts on the current topic. 101 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.639 Something you think we should discuss door heck, even blab 102 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.240 on about some job conspiracy nonsense. 103 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:40.000 Your uncle's into the talkback feature. 104 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.000 Check it out on seven hundred wlw's live stream on 105 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:45.560 the iHeartRadio app. 106 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:51.199 For generations, hardworking people have relied on Ford F Series 107 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:56.199 trucks to help grow businesses, communities, families. A legacy of 108 00:06:56.279 --> 00:07:00.160 capability and technology that has made Ford F Series is 109 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:05.800 America's best selling trucks forty seven years straight. 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National Review contributor David Boonson. 122 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:49.639 With the presidential election just two weeks election day just 123 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:55.319 two weeks from tomorrow, there's been so much, so much 124 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:00.680 discussed about who gets elected and how it's going to 125 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.879 affect the United States economy. And we've heard all kinds 126 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:07.720 of wild claims and predictions that if Trump is elected, 127 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:11.879 the economy is going to crash and we're going to 128 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.839 be in worse shape than we are now, which is 129 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:20.759 hard to imagine. And these are narratives that being pushed 130 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.959 by the left, obviously to get Kamala Harris elected, and 131 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.399 that's looking more and more like that's not going to happen, 132 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:32.240 which I mean, I'm praying it doesn't. But David Bonnson 133 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:34.840 is with us to talk for a few minutes about 134 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:40.039 how the presidential election will actually affect our economy and 135 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:43.759 our pocketbooks, and it is the economy stupid after all? 136 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:45.840 David Bonnson, welcome to the show. 137 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:49.000 Well, it's great to be with you. Thank you for 138 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:49.480 having me. 139 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:55.559 So what is what is the left getting wrong here 140 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.679 when they say if Donald Trump wins the twenty twenty 141 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.039 four presidential election and the economy is going to go 142 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:02.080 straight into the sewer? 143 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:07.080 Let me answer that with as much credibility as I 144 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:10.600 can by saying what the right's getting wrong too, which is, 145 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:12.559 you know, you made the comments hard to imagine this 146 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.320 economy being worse, Well, of course, you know you're being 147 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.240 somewhat tongue in cheek. We've can imagine the economy being 148 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.120 a heck of a lot worse than this. We've seen 149 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:20.360 it a. 150 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.000 Lot well well, nineteen eighty seven, Yes, I mean I 151 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:25.320 understand well. 152 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:29.120 And then also about fifty percent of years over the 153 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:31.919 last fifty years of at lower GDP growth where the 154 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.759 economy is brutal. Now, is that the wage growth we 155 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:38.840 were getting under President Trump? And by wage growth, I 156 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:42.200 mean real wage growth. So whatever wages are doing after 157 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:46.240 factoring and inflation, that is really really slowed, and that's 158 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.960 just terrible for lower income earners. This isn't a great economy, 159 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:55.120 and the housing affordability issue is one of the worst components, 160 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.399 but it isn't the worst economy. That's the only point 161 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:01.399 I'm making, and that's the uage the lefe uses that 162 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.240 I'm criticizing. Is I say this on Fox News three 163 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.639 or four times a week. There's no reason for those 164 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:10.320 of us who are conservatives to play their game right. 165 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:14.600 They are dramatizing things for political reasons, and the truth 166 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.840 is good enough. The truth is that her vision of 167 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:22.759 an opportunity economy isn't about opportunity. It's about redistribution. And 168 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:25.679 for the economy to flourish, it needs to be free, 169 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:27.679 and for it to be free, it needs to be 170 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:33.120 less involving the government, less involving politicians. It's certainly less 171 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:34.720 involving the White House. 172 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:38.960 Well, and indeed, when Kamala Harris comes out with something 173 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:44.919 that's clearly unconstitutional, violating every kind of civil rights law 174 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:49.919 and saying that she wants to offer these forgivable loans 175 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:55.799 to black men, to spore economic opportunity and then has 176 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:59.080 to go back three days later when says that, you know, Tommy, 177 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:00.240 you can't. 178 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.200 Do that because that's against the law. 179 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:07.639 You have to So now it's for everybody, according to them, 180 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:15.200 these opportunity ec economy programs that she has supposed and suggested, 181 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:17.919 what would that be, like, David Bonson, if all of 182 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:21.960 a sudden, the federal government is handing out ten twenty 183 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.240 thousand dollars in forgivable loans. In other words, they're forgivable 184 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.000 for the people that are getting the loans, but they're 185 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.200 not forgivable for the rest of the US taxpayers who 186 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:32.600 are footing the bill for them. 187 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:35.600 How would that work in the economy? 188 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:41.759 Well, when President Trump did it with PPP, basically they 189 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:43.799 were giving away a heck of a lot more than 190 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.759 twenty thousand, but they had shut down the country. And 191 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.559 so the notion of a forgivable loan is a contradiction. 192 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:53.960 In terms, a forgivable loan is called a gift if 193 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:56.600 it's forgiven, it wasn't. A loan alone is something that's 194 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.519 paid back. All of us who have ever borrowed money 195 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:01.759 know what the definition of a loan is. Since she's 196 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:06.200 insulting our intelligence, and of course having it attached to 197 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:09.360 the color of one's skin is a grotesque violation of 198 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.639 equal protection under the law, the Civil Rights Act, and 199 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.919 the very nature of equality is enshrined in our constitution. 200 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.279 So it's absurd. But what does it mean to taxpayers? 201 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:23.440 What does all of these things there are talking about 202 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:27.080 giveaways that now I'm gonna give you the down payment 203 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.399 on your home, I'm gonna give you money to start 204 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:33.200 a business, I'm gonna give you forgivable loans. There's an 205 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.519 awful lot of pandering going on. Again, my credibility is 206 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:38.559 so important to me. I want to point out I 207 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.480 don't like all these things thrown out there about we're 208 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:44.080 gonna cut this tax and this tax for this job 209 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:47.759 as well. On either side, pandering to me is just 210 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.519 not the way to go about getting elected. But the 211 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.159 problem the difference here is that Kamala Harris is actually 212 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:59.559 suggesting that an opportunity economy is newly defined in the 213 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:05.480 context to governmental nanny state control. That's the fundamental difference 214 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.919 in the vision for the economy what President Trump did 215 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.000 in his first term. For the most part, it's not 216 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.279 to say I agree every single thing, but for the 217 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.639 most part, was reduced the tax burden the businesses have 218 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.440 so they can pay more in wages, which they did. 219 00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:25.159 Allow companies that had a big overseas operation to repatriot 220 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.360 profits back on shore, which they did. They thought the 221 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.600 Trump administration thought it would be a trillion dollars that 222 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.960 would come back on shore. It's now so far and 223 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:38.440 counting one point seven trillion dollars. 224 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:39.200 Wow. 225 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.240 And they significant, They significantly deregulated. Now we have a 226 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.240 lot more deregulation to do. I'm not a fan of 227 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.519 targeted terrorists trying to punish certain businesses. The business tax 228 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.320 is still too high, but he wants to bring it 229 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.320 down to fifteen percent from the current twenty one. There's 230 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:57.759 a lot of work to do still. But every single 231 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:01.320 thing Harris is talking about makes the she seeks to 232 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.159 solve worse. You do not bring down the price of 233 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:08.679 housing when you're having an affordability crisis by giving people 234 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.679 money for a down payment on a home. Subsidy pushes 235 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.480 prices higher. And fifth graders can understand. 236 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:17.639 That, yeah, that's the thing. 237 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.879 So you're going to give somebody twenty five thousand dollars 238 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.399 or whatever the number is to buy a home, and 239 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:30.559 that means that the market's going to instantly price that 240 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:33.320 in to the price of the home right from. 241 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.080 The very beginning. 242 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:40.200 And you're right, it's basic economics. What about you mentioned 243 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:43.840 the tax cuts. To me, the biggest thing that Trump 244 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:48.000 did to spur economic activity in the country and to 245 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.840 take the reins of the federal government off was all 246 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.480 the deregulation. And you said, We've got more deregulation to do. 247 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.759 And if Donald Trump wins the White House, maybe it's pandering, 248 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:00.879 But he said that he is going to take out 249 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.919 that deregulation pen and get to work reversing some of 250 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.080 the things that Biden reversed when he came into office. 251 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.639 And I don't think that's pandering at all. I think 252 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.879 targeting a certain profession to say I'm going to cut 253 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:17.440 your taxes and not other people's taxes like that. 254 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.840 Like the no tax on tips thing. 255 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:23.720 Yeah, that's a great example, and there's others that have 256 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.600 been floated out there too, And so I try my 257 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.000 best to understand the reality of politics and the silly 258 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.240 things people say when their campaigning. Ninety four percent of 259 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:37.159 them never happen. So, you know, we political stuff is 260 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.759 what it is. But here's the thing. Deregulation should be 261 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:42.639 broad based. Most of it was in the first term. 262 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.240 Most of it was across multiple sectors, multiple industries. He 263 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:49.039 was not trying to pick winners and losers. And some 264 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:52.159 of the stuff he's talked about here with Elon Musk 265 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.879 Government Efficiency Task Force and some of the people that 266 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:59.480 I am speaking to several times a day right now 267 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:03.120 that are involved with these processes, they're very much in 268 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.200 that reagunized vision of across the board deregulation. I don't 269 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.279 think that's pandering. That's what you need. And deregulation where 270 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:16.519 you're picking winners and losers is not deregulation. So you're right, 271 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.440 that was probably the lowest hanging fruit of the economic 272 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:21.799 agenda of his first term. And if he does end 273 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:25.200 up prevailing, I'd encourage people not to get not to 274 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.600 get cocky here. I mean, there's no question he as 275 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:30.600 the momentum and on the margin. But this is a 276 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.399 fifty to fifty country period, and sure this is going 277 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:34.840 to come down to it's going to come down to 278 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:36.360 turn out. It's going to come down to turn out 279 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:40.320 in about five to ten counties. People keep saying states 280 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.879 it's really five to ten counties, and I think it's 281 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:47.639 going to be very close. And I do believe that 282 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:52.159 that opportunity economy message of the Vice President has proven 283 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:52.960 to be a dud. 284 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:56.440 Well, the Chevron decision in the Supreme Court last summer 285 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.519 was huge too, as far as taking some of the 286 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.720 teeth of these agencies and taking some of the reins 287 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:03.559 off of business. 288 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:07.079 Don't you think, Well, I think it was a big deal. 289 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:08.720 But I want to be clear what it did. It 290 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:15.160 basically challenged the illegality of defaulting to unspoken regulation. It 291 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.720 didn't deal with their ability to go do and clarify 292 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.759 the regulation right, and so it kind of dared them 293 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:24.319 to up the ante a little bit, which I do 294 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.839 think is a good thing because generally when they do that, 295 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.599 it will end up being more unpopular and it will 296 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:34.799 reveal their own biases. So the Chevron matter, for in 297 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.319 terms of the law, in terms of what you know, 298 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.920 this clarity we ought to demand in jurisprudence, was a 299 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.480 wonderful decision. But the defanging of the administrative state is 300 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.519 going to take a long long time, not just one 301 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.200 judicial ruling, And the only way to do it is 302 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.920 just every day, wake up and cut one regulation, and 303 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.680 then wake up the. 304 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:57.759 Next day and do it again. I'm anxious to see it. David, 305 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.799 thank you so much for your time tonight. I really 306 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.400 appreciated a pleasure to be with you. You got it. David 307 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:09.240 Bonnson on the economy and the presidential election. I love 308 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.359 what he said about I hate the pandering on both sides, 309 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.079 and I would tend to agree with him more of 310 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:20.119 the Nightcap in just a Moment on seven hundred WLW Monday. 311 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.119 Evening on seven hundred w l W. 312 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:28.960 Joining us now is all all time great Western nonfiction writer. 313 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.200 I kind of call him the Louis Lamore of Western nonfiction. 314 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:37.079 He does so many. 315 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:41.720 Great, great historical works on the Old West and the frontier, 316 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.559 the American Frontier, and he has a new book out 317 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:49.160 called Bandit Heaven. He is also the New York Times 318 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.720 bestselling author of Tombstone. I don't know if you've ever 319 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:56.799 heard of that. Tom Claven join Us, Banded Heaven, The 320 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.160 Hole in the Wall Gangs. In the final chapter of 321 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:02.400 the Wild asked, good evening. 322 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.599 Good evening, thank you for having me back on your show. 323 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:06.039 Yeah. 324 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.720 The books on sale as of tomorrow officially thank you 325 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:13.240 for my advance copy. And from what I have been 326 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:17.759 able to see this, I mean this fits right into 327 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:26.359 your Baileywick, your purview of great, great historical facts woven 328 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.839 into pros that very few people can do, I think. 329 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.599 But thank you for coming on. 330 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:32.160 Thank you. 331 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:37.759 So the Hole in the Hole in the Wall Gangs. 332 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.680 We're talking about roberts Rus Brown's Hole, Hole in the Wall, 333 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.039 three hideouts that collectively were known out laws as Banded 334 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:49.559 Heaven during the late eighteen hundreds, rather remote locations in 335 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:54.400 Wyoming and Utah, which was like they were like sanctuary 336 00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:59.200 cities for criminals in today's parlan you know. 337 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.480 Use the word isolated. That was very true. The geography 338 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.200 is what made these these places so important to the 339 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.519 to the outlaws, and that you know, in the case 340 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:10.440 of Brown's whole hole was another word at the time 341 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:11.960 for a valley. So you had a valley that was 342 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.920 surrounded by hills and mountains. There's only a couple of 343 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.680 access ways in and out, so you guarded those. Nobody 344 00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:19.359 was going to get in there, especially you know, sheriffs 345 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:23.119 and deputies and detectives and things like that. And Roberts 346 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:25.039 Rouse was sort of like a on a plateau that 347 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:27.839 you could see somebody coming from miles so it seemed 348 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.119 like any lawman were coming coming near. You could prepare 349 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.000 way ahead of time for some kind of ambush. And 350 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.279 the hole in the wall was a hole in the wall. 351 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.079 It was you can only get a horse and riders 352 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.400 were there, maybe a small wagon, so it was easily 353 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.400 defensive ale. So a lot of the lawmen at the 354 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:44.759 time said, you know, we're not going there. We don't 355 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.720 care what they've done. If they get there on their 356 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.640 own and they beat us there, they could stay there 357 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:50.200 and to hide out there. We're not going in there 358 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:51.279 because it's just too dangerous. 359 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.759 Well, I mean, and I guess part of the thinking 360 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:59.160 there by law enforcement was you know, when they come out, 361 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:01.920 we'll get them. They got to come out eventually, right. 362 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:06.680 They figured that out finally when a few of them 363 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:08.799 got ambushed, they probably said, you know what, why don't 364 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.000 we wait on this side because at some point they're 365 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.680 going to run out of money, or they're going to 366 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:14.640 run out of women, or they'll run out of alcohol 367 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.680 and all three, and they're going to leave there because plus, 368 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.319 let's face it, if you're hold up in a hole 369 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:22.240 in the wall, for weeks at a time. It gets 370 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:24.880 pretty done boring, not like there's a triplex there because 371 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.240 they catching the movie. So that's what eventually would happen, 372 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:29.960 is they'd wait for these guys to come back out 373 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:32.839 to plot their next train robbery or bank library, or 374 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.279 just to whoop it up in town. And that's when 375 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:36.880 they would have had a better chance of catching him 376 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:38.960 and putting them in prison or put him in the grave. 377 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:41.480 Were were these gangs? 378 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:47.640 Were they like the street gangs of Venezuela or MS thirteen? 379 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.240 Were they that notorious and that blood thirsty? Were they? 380 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:55.200 Would they do anything for a score, including you know, 381 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:58.440 kill a man or take a woman hostage or you 382 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.759 know bridley rate somebody and then cut their heads off. 383 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:06.440 I mean what on a scale of infamy? Where were 384 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.400 these gangs? Most of them a scale. 385 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.000 Together one to ten, Yeah, like maybe a four or five. 386 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.440 There were individual outlaws who were pretty nasty people. I 387 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:20.200 mean Kid Curry was part of the Hole in the 388 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:20.839 Wall gang and. 389 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:21.160 He was. 390 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:24.640 But they all the time a man killer. He would 391 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.240 shoot somebody if he felt it dangered. There were others 392 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.759 that that John Wesley Harden was a man killer. The 393 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.200 Dirty Day of Rudeba who was in the book is 394 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.480 a man killer. But for the most part, the gangs 395 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.839 did not want to kill if they didn't have to, 396 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:43.240 because they feared most of the time correctly, that murder 397 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.759 was really crossing the line. It brought down a lot 398 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:49.160 of law man attention, especially if you kill if you're 399 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.000 robbing a train, you killed the fireman or the conductor 400 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.279 or something like that, that's going to get the railroads 401 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.359