Speaker 1: Seven hundl W How you doing, Gary, Jeff Walker. Good
Speaker 1: evening on this Monday night, October the twenty first. We
Speaker 1: are just barely two weeks away from election day, so
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on, you think, a lot at stake, absolutely,
Speaker 1: But I wanted to talk to you about something else
Speaker 1: at the top of tonight's show that has been a
Speaker 1: very very personal kind of issue for me and my
Speaker 1: family and for millions of people women and men across
Speaker 1: the country. October, as you know, is Breast cancer Awareness Month,
Speaker 1: and we're here nearing the tail end of this special
Speaker 1: month set aside for awareness for women and for men
Speaker 1: to get screened, particularly for breast cancer, the Pink Ribbon
Speaker 1: month of the year and all of that. And it
Speaker 1: was a couple of years ago that my wife and
Speaker 1: I got the news that yes, she indeed did have
Speaker 1: a tumor in her right breast. It was caught early.
Speaker 1: After being bugged by her doctor to go and get
Speaker 1: the enhanced mammograms, she finally did and they found it.
Speaker 1: Thank god, it was only one point five centimeters. But
Speaker 1: when it's cancer, it doesn't matter how small it is.
Speaker 1: It needs to be addressed and taken care of. Now
Speaker 1: Another Praise God moment for us was when we went
Speaker 1: into the doctor's office and doctor Michael Gunther was our
Speaker 1: doctor at Saint Elizabeth there in Edgewood.
Speaker 2: Great guy.
Speaker 1: I told this story before, but we were still in
Speaker 1: the middle of COVID protocols, especially in hospitals. We get
Speaker 1: into the room with doctor Gunther and it's just to
Speaker 1: the two of us and the doctor and a nurse
Speaker 1: and he said, do you feel like wearing these masks?
Speaker 2: And we go no. Oh.
Speaker 1: He said, please take them off, and he took his
Speaker 1: off and we were all more comfortable. And then he
Speaker 1: got out the monitor to show us exactly where they
Speaker 1: had located the tumor in the enhanced resonance imaging. And
Speaker 1: you know what they planned to do, the plan of attack,
Speaker 1: and he never suggested radiation or chemotherapy, not once. He
Speaker 1: didn't think it was necessary. He said, let's do the operation.
Speaker 1: And what wound up happening is the operation occurred. They
Speaker 1: got it all. They took out a lymph node next
Speaker 1: to where the tumor was in my wife's breast, all good,
Speaker 1: and then there was radiation, which was anybody who's been
Speaker 1: through a radiation regimen knows that it can be really
Speaker 1: tiring because they take you five days in a row
Speaker 1: or six days in a row, and then you do
Speaker 1: it the.
Speaker 2: Next week every day for a few minutes.
Speaker 1: Discolored my wife's right breasts and the hair stopped growing
Speaker 1: under a white arm, right arm. But the cancer was gone,
Speaker 1: and that's all that we cared about, truly, all that
Speaker 1: we cared about.
Speaker 2: So in the aftermath.
Speaker 1: It's been almost two years now since she rang the
Speaker 1: bell and was declared cancer free, and she is going
Speaker 1: back on Thursday this week for another mammogram. And the
Speaker 1: only reason I tell you all this is just another
Speaker 1: testimonial of someone who's been personally affected by it. My family, yours,
Speaker 1: maybe two. But for those who don't know and haven't
Speaker 1: gotten screened, I know there is a percentage of people,
Speaker 1: and I tend to be one of them of suiting
Speaker 1: certain things that.
Speaker 2: Just is afraid of what they'll find out.
Speaker 1: Well, the point of the matter is if they find
Speaker 1: out early like they did with my wife's breast cancer,
Speaker 1: you know, she may never have to deal with that.
Speaker 1: We may never have to deal with that ever again
Speaker 1: in our lives. Again, praise God moment here, but just
Speaker 1: go do it. If you're I don't care what age
Speaker 1: you are, and you haven't been screened, especially for women,
Speaker 1: if you haven't gotten the enhanced Mammograham.
Speaker 2: Go do it.
Speaker 1: It literally can save your life. Not everybody's outcome is
Speaker 1: the same as my wife's, and I understand that, but
Speaker 1: the early screening was the biggest component. That and having
Speaker 1: a great doctor and staff at STY and just people
Speaker 1: that really cared a lot. And all of the prayers
Speaker 1: that many of you said in petition for my wife
Speaker 1: and for us. So I thank you again for those.
Speaker 1: Mind you, if you haven't done it yet, get checked.
Speaker 1: It really can mean everything to you. On the show tonight,
Speaker 1: David Bonson Kevin Shipp, a former CIA agent who says
Speaker 1: that the CIA not only medals in foreign elections, but
Speaker 1: has been playing dirty politics in our elections and their
Speaker 1: chosen candidate is Kamala Harris. Yeah, Carter Wren, who was
Speaker 1: a GOP political strategist. Michael Levine, the promotions guru, pr
Speaker 1: guru who always has some interesting thoughts. Sergeant Betsy brenttn
Speaker 1: Or Smith will be here from the National Police Association,
Speaker 1: Wildman Walker, and in this half hour, Tom Claven who's
Speaker 1: got a brand new book called Bandit Heaven about the
Speaker 1: Hole in the Wall, gangs and the end of the
Speaker 1: wild West criminal spreeze that we have heard so much
Speaker 1: about in history. He's got a brand new book, nonfiction.
Speaker 1: He is the nonfiction Louis Lemore of wild West history,
Speaker 1: and he will be with us on this nightcap David
Speaker 1: Bonson coming up next.
Speaker 2: You're on seven hundred WLW.
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Speaker 1: Hey, it's the top ranked advisor. National Review contributor David Boonson.
Speaker 1: With the presidential election just two weeks election day just
Speaker 1: two weeks from tomorrow, there's been so much, so much
Speaker 1: discussed about who gets elected and how it's going to
Speaker 1: affect the United States economy. And we've heard all kinds
Speaker 1: of wild claims and predictions that if Trump is elected,
Speaker 1: the economy is going to crash and we're going to
Speaker 1: be in worse shape than we are now, which is
Speaker 1: hard to imagine. And these are narratives that being pushed
Speaker 1: by the left, obviously to get Kamala Harris elected, and
Speaker 1: that's looking more and more like that's not going to happen,
Speaker 1: which I mean, I'm praying it doesn't. But David Bonnson
Speaker 1: is with us to talk for a few minutes about
Speaker 1: how the presidential election will actually affect our economy and
Speaker 1: our pocketbooks, and it is the economy stupid after all?
Speaker 1: David Bonnson, welcome to the show.
Speaker 7: Well, it's great to be with you. Thank you for
Speaker 7: having me.
Speaker 1: So what is what is the left getting wrong here
Speaker 1: when they say if Donald Trump wins the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four presidential election and the economy is going to go
Speaker 1: straight into the sewer?
Speaker 7: Let me answer that with as much credibility as I
Speaker 7: can by saying what the right's getting wrong too, which is,
Speaker 7: you know, you made the comments hard to imagine this
Speaker 7: economy being worse, Well, of course, you know you're being
Speaker 7: somewhat tongue in cheek. We've can imagine the economy being
Speaker 7: a heck of a lot worse than this. We've seen
Speaker 7: it a.
Speaker 1: Lot well well, nineteen eighty seven, Yes, I mean I
Speaker 1: understand well.
Speaker 7: And then also about fifty percent of years over the
Speaker 7: last fifty years of at lower GDP growth where the
Speaker 7: economy is brutal. Now, is that the wage growth we
Speaker 7: were getting under President Trump? And by wage growth, I
Speaker 7: mean real wage growth. So whatever wages are doing after
Speaker 7: factoring and inflation, that is really really slowed, and that's
Speaker 7: just terrible for lower income earners. This isn't a great economy,
Speaker 7: and the housing affordability issue is one of the worst components,
Speaker 7: but it isn't the worst economy. That's the only point
Speaker 7: I'm making, and that's the uage the lefe uses that
Speaker 7: I'm criticizing. Is I say this on Fox News three
Speaker 7: or four times a week. There's no reason for those
Speaker 7: of us who are conservatives to play their game right.
Speaker 7: They are dramatizing things for political reasons, and the truth
Speaker 7: is good enough. The truth is that her vision of
Speaker 7: an opportunity economy isn't about opportunity. It's about redistribution. And
Speaker 7: for the economy to flourish, it needs to be free,
Speaker 7: and for it to be free, it needs to be
Speaker 7: less involving the government, less involving politicians. It's certainly less
Speaker 7: involving the White House.
Speaker 1: Well, and indeed, when Kamala Harris comes out with something
Speaker 1: that's clearly unconstitutional, violating every kind of civil rights law
Speaker 1: and saying that she wants to offer these forgivable loans
Speaker 1: to black men, to spore economic opportunity and then has
Speaker 1: to go back three days later when says that, you know, Tommy,
Speaker 1: you can't.
Speaker 2: Do that because that's against the law.
Speaker 1: You have to So now it's for everybody, according to them,
Speaker 1: these opportunity ec economy programs that she has supposed and suggested,
Speaker 1: what would that be, like, David Bonson, if all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, the federal government is handing out ten twenty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in forgivable loans. In other words, they're forgivable
Speaker 1: for the people that are getting the loans, but they're
Speaker 1: not forgivable for the rest of the US taxpayers who
Speaker 1: are footing the bill for them.
Speaker 2: How would that work in the economy?
Speaker 7: Well, when President Trump did it with PPP, basically they
Speaker 7: were giving away a heck of a lot more than
Speaker 7: twenty thousand, but they had shut down the country. And
Speaker 7: so the notion of a forgivable loan is a contradiction.
Speaker 7: In terms, a forgivable loan is called a gift if
Speaker 7: it's forgiven, it wasn't. A loan alone is something that's
Speaker 7: paid back. All of us who have ever borrowed money
Speaker 7: know what the definition of a loan is. Since she's
Speaker 7: insulting our intelligence, and of course having it attached to
Speaker 7: the color of one's skin is a grotesque violation of
Speaker 7: equal protection under the law, the Civil Rights Act, and
Speaker 7: the very nature of equality is enshrined in our constitution.
Speaker 7: So it's absurd. But what does it mean to taxpayers?
Speaker 7: What does all of these things there are talking about
Speaker 7: giveaways that now I'm gonna give you the down payment
Speaker 7: on your home, I'm gonna give you money to start
Speaker 7: a business, I'm gonna give you forgivable loans. There's an
Speaker 7: awful lot of pandering going on. Again, my credibility is
Speaker 7: so important to me. I want to point out I
Speaker 7: don't like all these things thrown out there about we're
Speaker 7: gonna cut this tax and this tax for this job
Speaker 7: as well. On either side, pandering to me is just
Speaker 7: not the way to go about getting elected. But the
Speaker 7: problem the difference here is that Kamala Harris is actually
Speaker 7: suggesting that an opportunity economy is newly defined in the
Speaker 7: context to governmental nanny state control. That's the fundamental difference
Speaker 7: in the vision for the economy what President Trump did
Speaker 7: in his first term. For the most part, it's not
Speaker 7: to say I agree every single thing, but for the
Speaker 7: most part, was reduced the tax burden the businesses have
Speaker 7: so they can pay more in wages, which they did.
Speaker 7: Allow companies that had a big overseas operation to repatriot
Speaker 7: profits back on shore, which they did. They thought the
Speaker 7: Trump administration thought it would be a trillion dollars that
Speaker 7: would come back on shore. It's now so far and
Speaker 7: counting one point seven trillion dollars.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 7: And they significant, They significantly deregulated. Now we have a
Speaker 7: lot more deregulation to do. I'm not a fan of
Speaker 7: targeted terrorists trying to punish certain businesses. The business tax
Speaker 7: is still too high, but he wants to bring it
Speaker 7: down to fifteen percent from the current twenty one. There's
Speaker 7: a lot of work to do still. But every single
Speaker 7: thing Harris is talking about makes the she seeks to
Speaker 7: solve worse. You do not bring down the price of
Speaker 7: housing when you're having an affordability crisis by giving people
Speaker 7: money for a down payment on a home. Subsidy pushes
Speaker 7: prices higher. And fifth graders can understand.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: So you're going to give somebody twenty five thousand dollars
Speaker 1: or whatever the number is to buy a home, and
Speaker 1: that means that the market's going to instantly price that
Speaker 1: in to the price of the home right from.
Speaker 2: The very beginning.
Speaker 1: And you're right, it's basic economics. What about you mentioned
Speaker 1: the tax cuts. To me, the biggest thing that Trump
Speaker 1: did to spur economic activity in the country and to
Speaker 1: take the reins of the federal government off was all
Speaker 1: the deregulation. And you said, We've got more deregulation to do.
Speaker 1: And if Donald Trump wins the White House, maybe it's pandering,
Speaker 1: But he said that he is going to take out
Speaker 1: that deregulation pen and get to work reversing some of
Speaker 1: the things that Biden reversed when he came into office.
Speaker 7: And I don't think that's pandering at all. I think
Speaker 7: targeting a certain profession to say I'm going to cut
Speaker 7: your taxes and not other people's taxes like that.
Speaker 2: Like the no tax on tips thing.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a great example, and there's others that have
Speaker 7: been floated out there too, And so I try my
Speaker 7: best to understand the reality of politics and the silly
Speaker 7: things people say when their campaigning. Ninety four percent of
Speaker 7: them never happen. So, you know, we political stuff is
Speaker 7: what it is. But here's the thing. Deregulation should be
Speaker 7: broad based. Most of it was in the first term.
Speaker 7: Most of it was across multiple sectors, multiple industries. He
Speaker 7: was not trying to pick winners and losers. And some
Speaker 7: of the stuff he's talked about here with Elon Musk
Speaker 7: Government Efficiency Task Force and some of the people that
Speaker 7: I am speaking to several times a day right now
Speaker 7: that are involved with these processes, they're very much in
Speaker 7: that reagunized vision of across the board deregulation. I don't
Speaker 7: think that's pandering. That's what you need. And deregulation where
Speaker 7: you're picking winners and losers is not deregulation. So you're right,
Speaker 7: that was probably the lowest hanging fruit of the economic
Speaker 7: agenda of his first term. And if he does end
Speaker 7: up prevailing, I'd encourage people not to get not to
Speaker 7: get cocky here. I mean, there's no question he as
Speaker 7: the momentum and on the margin. But this is a
Speaker 7: fifty to fifty country period, and sure this is going
Speaker 7: to come down to it's going to come down to
Speaker 7: turn out. It's going to come down to turn out
Speaker 7: in about five to ten counties. People keep saying states
Speaker 7: it's really five to ten counties, and I think it's
Speaker 7: going to be very close. And I do believe that
Speaker 7: that opportunity economy message of the Vice President has proven
Speaker 7: to be a dud.
Speaker 1: Well, the Chevron decision in the Supreme Court last summer
Speaker 1: was huge too, as far as taking some of the
Speaker 1: teeth of these agencies and taking some of the reins
Speaker 1: off of business.
Speaker 7: Don't you think, Well, I think it was a big deal.
Speaker 7: But I want to be clear what it did. It
Speaker 7: basically challenged the illegality of defaulting to unspoken regulation. It
Speaker 7: didn't deal with their ability to go do and clarify
Speaker 7: the regulation right, and so it kind of dared them
Speaker 7: to up the ante a little bit, which I do
Speaker 7: think is a good thing because generally when they do that,
Speaker 7: it will end up being more unpopular and it will
Speaker 7: reveal their own biases. So the Chevron matter, for in
Speaker 7: terms of the law, in terms of what you know,
Speaker 7: this clarity we ought to demand in jurisprudence, was a
Speaker 7: wonderful decision. But the defanging of the administrative state is
Speaker 7: going to take a long long time, not just one
Speaker 7: judicial ruling, And the only way to do it is
Speaker 7: just every day, wake up and cut one regulation, and
Speaker 7: then wake up the.
Speaker 1: Next day and do it again. I'm anxious to see it. David,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time tonight. I really
Speaker 1: appreciated a pleasure to be with you. You got it. David
Speaker 1: Bonnson on the economy and the presidential election. I love
Speaker 1: what he said about I hate the pandering on both sides,
Speaker 1: and I would tend to agree with him more of
Speaker 1: the Nightcap in just a Moment on seven hundred WLW Monday.
Speaker 2: Evening on seven hundred w l W.
Speaker 1: Joining us now is all all time great Western nonfiction writer.
Speaker 1: I kind of call him the Louis Lamore of Western nonfiction.
Speaker 2: He does so many.
Speaker 1: Great, great historical works on the Old West and the frontier,
Speaker 1: the American Frontier, and he has a new book out
Speaker 1: called Bandit Heaven. He is also the New York Times
Speaker 1: bestselling author of Tombstone. I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 1: heard of that. Tom Claven join Us, Banded Heaven, The
Speaker 1: Hole in the Wall Gangs. In the final chapter of
Speaker 1: the Wild asked, good evening.
Speaker 8: Good evening, thank you for having me back on your show.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The books on sale as of tomorrow officially thank you
Speaker 1: for my advance copy. And from what I have been
Speaker 1: able to see this, I mean this fits right into
Speaker 1: your Baileywick, your purview of great, great historical facts woven
Speaker 1: into pros that very few people can do, I think.
Speaker 1: But thank you for coming on.
Speaker 8: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So the Hole in the Hole in the Wall Gangs.
Speaker 1: We're talking about roberts Rus Brown's Hole, Hole in the Wall,
Speaker 1: three hideouts that collectively were known out laws as Banded
Speaker 1: Heaven during the late eighteen hundreds, rather remote locations in
Speaker 1: Wyoming and Utah, which was like they were like sanctuary
Speaker 1: cities for criminals in today's parlan you know.
Speaker 8: Use the word isolated. That was very true. The geography
Speaker 8: is what made these these places so important to the
Speaker 8: to the outlaws, and that you know, in the case
Speaker 8: of Brown's whole hole was another word at the time
Speaker 8: for a valley. So you had a valley that was
Speaker 8: surrounded by hills and mountains. There's only a couple of
Speaker 8: access ways in and out, so you guarded those. Nobody
Speaker 8: was going to get in there, especially you know, sheriffs
Speaker 8: and deputies and detectives and things like that. And Roberts
Speaker 8: Rouse was sort of like a on a plateau that
Speaker 8: you could see somebody coming from miles so it seemed
Speaker 8: like any lawman were coming coming near. You could prepare
Speaker 8: way ahead of time for some kind of ambush. And
Speaker 8: the hole in the wall was a hole in the wall.
Speaker 8: It was you can only get a horse and riders
Speaker 8: were there, maybe a small wagon, so it was easily
Speaker 8: defensive ale. So a lot of the lawmen at the
Speaker 8: time said, you know, we're not going there. We don't
Speaker 8: care what they've done. If they get there on their
Speaker 8: own and they beat us there, they could stay there
Speaker 8: and to hide out there. We're not going in there
Speaker 8: because it's just too dangerous.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, and I guess part of the thinking
Speaker 1: there by law enforcement was you know, when they come out,
Speaker 1: we'll get them. They got to come out eventually, right.
Speaker 8: They figured that out finally when a few of them
Speaker 8: got ambushed, they probably said, you know what, why don't
Speaker 8: we wait on this side because at some point they're
Speaker 8: going to run out of money, or they're going to
Speaker 8: run out of women, or they'll run out of alcohol
Speaker 8: and all three, and they're going to leave there because plus,
Speaker 8: let's face it, if you're hold up in a hole
Speaker 8: in the wall, for weeks at a time. It gets
Speaker 8: pretty done boring, not like there's a triplex there because
Speaker 8: they catching the movie. So that's what eventually would happen,
Speaker 8: is they'd wait for these guys to come back out
Speaker 8: to plot their next train robbery or bank library, or
Speaker 8: just to whoop it up in town. And that's when
Speaker 8: they would have had a better chance of catching him
Speaker 8: and putting them in prison or put him in the grave.
Speaker 2: Were were these gangs?
Speaker 1: Were they like the street gangs of Venezuela or MS thirteen?
Speaker 1: Were they that notorious and that blood thirsty? Were they?
Speaker 1: Would they do anything for a score, including you know,
Speaker 1: kill a man or take a woman hostage or you
Speaker 1: know bridley rate somebody and then cut their heads off.
Speaker 1: I mean what on a scale of infamy? Where were
Speaker 1: these gangs? Most of them a scale.
Speaker 8: Together one to ten, Yeah, like maybe a four or five.
Speaker 8: There were individual outlaws who were pretty nasty people. I
Speaker 8: mean Kid Curry was part of the Hole in the
Speaker 8: Wall gang and.
Speaker 9: He was.
Speaker 8: But they all the time a man killer. He would
Speaker 8: shoot somebody if he felt it dangered. There were others
Speaker 8: that that John Wesley Harden was a man killer. The
Speaker 8: Dirty Day of Rudeba who was in the book is
Speaker 8: a man killer. But for the most part, the gangs
Speaker 8: did not want to kill if they didn't have to,
Speaker 8: because they feared most of the time correctly, that murder
Speaker 8: was really crossing the line. It brought down a lot
Speaker 8: of law man attention, especially if you kill if you're
Speaker 8: robbing a train, you killed the fireman or the conductor
Speaker 8: or something like that, that's going to get the railroads
Speaker 8: extra interested in extra reward money to turn and track
Speaker 8: you down. So they weren't blood thirsty at all. But
Speaker 8: there were ties when something went south and got shots
Speaker 8: were fired and sometimes people were killed, but they usually
Speaker 8: didn't go into a situation like a bank robbery intending
Speaker 8: to kill anybody.
Speaker 1: Well, if you you're talking about if you killed somebody
Speaker 1: with the railroad, the railroad had their own security outside
Speaker 1: of outside of badged lawmen. I mean, they had like
Speaker 1: Pemberton and other security people that would they would those
Speaker 1: security agencies go out and hunt for these outlaws as
Speaker 1: well as like.
Speaker 10: Sheriffs and law enforcement.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a good point. When you had sheriffs and
Speaker 8: marshalls and their deputies and their assistants who were looking
Speaker 8: for the outlaws they were. They were kind of outnumbered,
Speaker 8: or at least they didn't match up well because many
Speaker 8: of them were not very well trained and they weren't
Speaker 8: really pet brave, and they didn't get paid much. But
Speaker 8: what happened was their ranks were supported by the railroads
Speaker 8: because they got really sick and tired of having thousands
Speaker 8: of dollars stalls in their trains, so they started their
Speaker 8: own detective units, so they have railroad detectives. These guys
Speaker 8: were employed to track down the outlaws and the robbers
Speaker 8: and the thieves and the rustlers and everything else. And
Speaker 8: then he had the pink oft the Detective Agency, which
Speaker 8: was that founded by Alan Pinketton who immigrant from Scotland,
Speaker 8: and he and eventually his two sons ran the agency
Speaker 8: that became a national agency. They had these offices in
Speaker 8: New York and Denver and Chicago, and they had their
Speaker 8: own detectives that Charlie Serringo was one of the most
Speaker 8: important characters in Banded Heaven. He was like their most successful.
Speaker 8: He called himself the Cowboy Detective. He would be sent
Speaker 8: to the track down the worst of criminals. It was
Speaker 8: usually successful. So that's when the tides started to turn
Speaker 8: against the outlaws when they when these other agencies and
Speaker 8: detectives got involved, because then they were a lot more
Speaker 8: than they were of the outlaws.
Speaker 1: In your first chapter of Bandit Heaven, Tom, you talk
Speaker 1: about h the Lewis and Clark expedition off from Saint Charles,
Speaker 1: Missouri in eighteen oh four. Yes, and you know, to
Speaker 1: just find out what President Jefferson had actually bought from
Speaker 1: the French with the Louisiana purchase. Yes, and so from
Speaker 1: that point forward that it not only opened up the
Speaker 1: frontier for settlers and for people who wanted, you know,
Speaker 1: to have their peace of this this unburdened wilderness, but
Speaker 1: it eventually opened up for the criminal element. I mean
Speaker 1: that's a I guess that's a natural thing that's going
Speaker 1: to happen. Wherever there are people, there is going to
Speaker 1: be crime. Is that Is that a fair assumption?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 8: I think two things happened. Two things happen. One, like
Speaker 8: you're talking about, is that you had people who are
Speaker 8: looking for fresh hunting grounds. I guess you could say
Speaker 8: outlaw with it. You know, they were wanted in Missouri,
Speaker 8: they were wanted in Texas, they were wanted in Oklahoma.
Speaker 8: They said, let me, let you see if I can
Speaker 8: try what what's available in Wyoming and Montana and Idahoa
Speaker 8: place like that. So there was, along with other kinds
Speaker 8: of professions that you're right, outlaw emigrated west also. But
Speaker 8: another thing that happened too is that beginning with after
Speaker 8: the Civil War, there was a lot of people who
Speaker 8: were leaving them East and the Midwest and the South,
Speaker 8: and they were heading west. Not so much because they
Speaker 8: were looking to be outlaw, as they were looking for
Speaker 8: opportunities to be ranchers, farmers or other kinds of jobs
Speaker 8: they could find. But then their circumstances went the wrong
Speaker 8: way for them and they became outlaws. I mean, A
Speaker 8: very good example of that is a man named Harry Logovar.
Speaker 8: Harry Logovar was left his home in Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania
Speaker 8: to become a horseman, to become I guess a cowboy.
Speaker 8: You could just say. He became an excellent horse wrangler.
Speaker 8: But then things didn't work out for him as financially
Speaker 8: as he hoped, so he ended up starting to get
Speaker 8: into small time robberies and eventually he became known as
Speaker 8: the Sundance Kid. So the Sundance kid is still a better,
Speaker 8: better outlaw named than Harry Harry Logovar.
Speaker 1: So let me skip ahead to chapter five, the invasion.
Speaker 1: This is from the book Bannit Heaven by Tom Clayn,
Speaker 1: who was our guest on the Night Cap. And I
Speaker 1: did I really love this stuff. I love history, That's
Speaker 1: my thing. I love any kind of history. So to
Speaker 1: crack this open and to get a glimpse of American
Speaker 1: history in the in the Old West is really a treasure.
Speaker 2: Ello Watson ull.
Speaker 1: These These are articles portraying Ello Watson as a prostitute
Speaker 1: who accepted cattle for her favors. Is she the first
Speaker 1: prostitute in American history to get a steak dinner?
Speaker 9: You know?
Speaker 12: Poor Ella?
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 8: It was bad enough that she was She was trying
Speaker 8: to be a small rancher. Uh And with the help
Speaker 8: of her she was romantically involved another rancher and they
Speaker 8: tried to get to build a small matches and raise
Speaker 8: some cattle and become self sustaining. And the large ranch
Speaker 8: owners did not like that. They did not want this
Speaker 8: interloper in there. So they not only took her and
Speaker 8: her companion Jim, and took about some remote place and
Speaker 8: hung them for the impertance of trying to own their
Speaker 8: own operator, own ranch. But then they planted these stories
Speaker 8: in the newspapers that she was a processut. So, I mean,
Speaker 8: it's bad enough you hang the person, but you have
Speaker 8: to be smirch the reputation too. But she's one of
Speaker 8: the more interesting characters in the book because of what
Speaker 8: happened to her and her admirable effort to be a strong,
Speaker 8: willed independent to stand their own two feet. Women in
Speaker 8: in the eighteen nineties.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in the nineteenth century, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: many women, many feminists would claim that it was tough
Speaker 1: in the twentieth century. Well, imagine what it was like
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth You mentioned the sun Dance Kid, Tom
Speaker 1: and I go to chapter eleven entitled Companions in Crime,
Speaker 1: and the first paragraph. If asked who Butch Cassidy's best
Speaker 1: friend and chief sidekick in the outlaw gangs he led,
Speaker 1: was most people would say the sun Dance Good. The
Speaker 1: correct answer was someone who did not get prominently portrayed
Speaker 1: on the big screen. A guy named Elsie Lay. Tell
Speaker 1: me about William Ellsworth Lay and Butch Cassidy.
Speaker 8: Well, he was another one of those that set up
Speaker 8: to be a cowboy, not intented any kind of life
Speaker 8: of crime. But he and he became Wishcassidy's best friend
Speaker 8: for several years until he did get caught at first
Speaker 8: criminal activities and was sent off to prison. But this
Speaker 8: is this is the friend who accompanied Butch on some
Speaker 8: of his earliest adventures, and that became more and more
Speaker 8: criminal as they you know. The one one of the
Speaker 8: things that happened is that it's really hard to resist
Speaker 8: what seems like easy money. You know, you can you
Speaker 8: can do backbreaking job, you know, behind a plow or
Speaker 8: behind a dry goods store counter or anything like that,
Speaker 8: and and for you know, a few dollars a day.
Speaker 8: But once you've robbed that bank and you're running out
Speaker 8: of there with seventy five hundred dollars and you saddle pegs,
Speaker 8: it's kind of hard to resist that. So that's what
Speaker 8: happened a lot of times these guys they said, well,
Speaker 8: we'll do one job and that'll be it, because that
Speaker 8: will get me out of the hole. I mean, they'll
Speaker 8: take care of the death that I mean, I'll get
Speaker 8: me the branch I want to buy. But it's intoxicating,
Speaker 8: the don't have whole that cash.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, once you get sucked in, go ahead.
Speaker 8: Yeah, And that's what happened. And that's the elderly lad
Speaker 8: that happened to him. And he was good friends with
Speaker 8: Butch and they would start doing these bank jobs together until,
Speaker 8: like I said, he got caught. Another companion of Butcher's
Speaker 8: was a fellow named Kid Curry. His original name was
Speaker 8: Harvey Logan, but he became Kid Curry. Thought it was
Speaker 8: like the second coming of Billy the Kid, and he
Speaker 8: was a pretty ruthless character. Sundance did eventually become Butch
Speaker 8: Cassie's closest companion, but there are these other two guys
Speaker 8: that sort of ahead of him later in their criminal career.
Speaker 8: There was Butch and Sundance. But most people remember the movie,
Speaker 8: which is hard to believe it's fifty five years old now.
Speaker 8: It opened up in nineteen sixty nine. And that movie,
Speaker 8: which is a great movie, and it deserves all the
Speaker 8: accolades it holds up after all these years, but it's
Speaker 8: focuses very narrowly on but Cassidy and Sundance. Now you
Speaker 8: can't blame them, as you've got Paul Newman and Robert
Speaker 8: Redford up on the big screen. Who wants to know
Speaker 8: who wants to watch anything? Maybe you want to watch
Speaker 8: Katherine Ross at a place, but otherwise it's it's Paul
Speaker 8: and Redford. Do you want us to be? So a
Speaker 8: lot of these other characters, you know, Derry Dave, Rudebah, Flattens, Curry, Gunplay, Maxwell,
Speaker 8: all these others that are populated that my book Band
Speaker 8: in Heaven never got on the big screen. So this
Speaker 8: is the chance and read his chance to get the
Speaker 8: full story and they explore all amazing. I mean, I
Speaker 8: don't want to give too much away with this one
Speaker 8: character in the book, the big beag parrot George, a
Speaker 8: big big parrot winds up as a pair of shoes.
Speaker 8: Now is that a teaser or what? Want to find
Speaker 8: out how that happened?
Speaker 9: That's going to read the book?
Speaker 2: All right? All right?
Speaker 1: Who are the Wild Bunch? Because they are referenced all
Speaker 1: through the book.
Speaker 8: Right well, but cast you know there's there's a famous
Speaker 8: photograph which is included in the book, or the fort
Speaker 8: Worth five, and that was really the core of the
Speaker 8: Wild Bunch. Uh, you had Butch Cassidy was always always
Speaker 8: the leader of the gang. Then Sun gangs. You did
Speaker 8: have the Sun dance kid, you had Kid Curry, you
Speaker 8: had Ben tol Texan Kirkpatrick, and try to remember who
Speaker 8: the fourth the fifth guy was, But these were That
Speaker 8: photograph was taken when they were in Fort Worth, Texas
Speaker 8: for a wedding and they were all dressed up and
Speaker 8: had it. Really it's a really nice photograph, but it's
Speaker 8: kind of poignant too. That was the core Wild Bunch group.
Speaker 8: They they loved the photograph so much. They loved the
Speaker 8: photograph too much the way it turned out, because they
Speaker 8: started distributing copies of it to friends and Weber Air
Speaker 8: for one. Well, eventually the choice has got to the
Speaker 8: hands of law enforcement, and they started circulating among sheriffs
Speaker 8: and county sheriff and and federal marshals and saying, these
Speaker 8: are the guys you're looking for. Here's a photograph them,
Speaker 8: go out and get them.
Speaker 1: Was just like people posting on Facebook when they're committing
Speaker 1: crimes or something.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I know it was it was an ill advised move,
Speaker 8: but they were, you know, he was feeling very powerful
Speaker 8: and it really was kind of like at the height
Speaker 8: of their power as bandits. But it was also the
Speaker 8: beginning of the end of them as bandits.
Speaker 1: You mentioned in the acknowledgement Acknowledgments to Bandit Heaven, Tom Clayn,
Speaker 1: that you know, you wouldn't have a career without the
Speaker 1: contributions of all kinds of people, librarians, curators in these
Speaker 1: Western states. How much have you extensively traveled out into
Speaker 1: these areas yourself?
Speaker 8: You know, quite a bit, especially beginning this would be
Speaker 8: thirteen years ago, in twenty eleven. I mean, I used
Speaker 8: to take a cross country trips when I was even younger,
Speaker 8: but those are just you know, being young and getting
Speaker 8: in a car and going from one coast to the
Speaker 8: other and back again. But they really spend more time
Speaker 8: specifically exploring the West and researching. His history began when
Speaker 8: I did a book with my friend Bob Drewy called
Speaker 8: The Heart of Everything that is about the Sioux Indian
Speaker 8: Leader Red Class and spending weeks on the road and
Speaker 8: listening even like it's like a small county library and
Speaker 8: sheard in Wyoming in their local history room. Very to me,
Speaker 8: you know, the kind of nerdy researcher area was very
Speaker 8: exciting to go to these original diaries that a teamster's
Speaker 8: wife kept in eighteen sixty six and things like.
Speaker 2: That, and so oh, I can't.
Speaker 8: I found it fascinating. It was just just so intoxicating
Speaker 8: to the seal as material to be fine stories that
Speaker 8: it had not been told before, he had not been
Speaker 8: told in quite a while. So I was very very
Speaker 8: fortunate to discover so much during the travels there, including
Speaker 8: in the more recent years when places like Tombstone and
Speaker 8: Dodge City and other places like that.
Speaker 1: When you go out to places like to Wyoming, to
Speaker 1: Montana and you go to some of these enclaves that
Speaker 1: have now become big tourist attractions and big attractions for
Speaker 1: people with big money to buy up branches and pieces
Speaker 1: of land, does it make you a little uh, I
Speaker 1: don't know, a little misty. Do you feel like something
Speaker 1: is being lost a little bit?
Speaker 10: Well?
Speaker 8: Yes and no. I mean part of what the story
Speaker 8: of Banded Heaven is big ranches who were buying up
Speaker 8: all the land and wanting to keep the smaller farmers
Speaker 8: and ranches out. You know, a story like the TV
Speaker 8: show Yellow Yellowstone, which is you know about that Kevin
Speaker 8: Costen's character and his family trying to hold on to
Speaker 8: their massive branch and all these other obstacles that they face,
Speaker 8: the intrusions that they face. That was also true in
Speaker 8: the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties out western Colorado and Utah,
Speaker 8: Wyoming and Montana, a lot of a lot of big
Speaker 8: ranches were being formed, and some of them were not
Speaker 8: even owned by Americas. They were owned by people from Europe,
Speaker 8: and they wanted to keep others out. They wanted to
Speaker 8: keep a sort of like a monopoly to themselves. So
Speaker 8: if you're seeing that today with some people buying up
Speaker 8: the big ranches, you know it's not didn't just start
Speaker 8: happening overnight. It's something that's been a peak solurs of
Speaker 8: friction in the American West for over a century.
Speaker 1: Tom Claven is the man the book has banded in Heaven.
Speaker 1: It is out tomorrow and it is my ultimate pleasure
Speaker 1: and honor to have the best selling author with us tonight.
Speaker 1: Thank you again, Tom, and great success with the books.
Speaker 1: It's on sale tomorrow.
Speaker 8: Fun for me too, Thank you again.
Speaker 2: You bet you.
Speaker 1: It's the night Cap on a Monday night, October twenty first,
Speaker 1: and we continue in mere moments on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 1: If you missed our twenty twenty four High Heart Radio
Speaker 1: Music Festival presented by Capital War. It is the night
Speaker 1: Cap on this Monday night, October twenty first, as we
Speaker 1: ticked down the days to election day, early voting obviously
Speaker 1: going on in a lot of places in the country
Speaker 1: right now, and we are very concerned as voters and
Speaker 1: becoming more and more dubious as voters about the integrity
Speaker 1: of our elections, especially presidential elections, especially after what happened
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. But I have a guest on who
Speaker 1: says it should be a concern for all American citizens
Speaker 1: and has been for a long long time. He was
Speaker 1: on the inside at the CIA, decorated agent and author
Speaker 1: of a book called Twilight of the Shadow Government, How
Speaker 1: Transparenty will Kill the Deep State. So that's encouraging. The
Speaker 1: title is encouraging. I'm all in favor of killing the
Speaker 1: deep state. But let's find out a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the deep state from his perspective. Former CIA agent
Speaker 1: Kevin Shipp joins us. Hello, Kevin, how are you.
Speaker 9: I'm doing great? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: So yet a recent op ed in Blaze in the Blaze,
Speaker 1: how the CIA's dirty tricks shape us elections and you
Speaker 1: and God just just to get into this subject because
Speaker 1: it seems like the integrity that keep on using that word.
Speaker 1: The integrity of our election is being questioned and being
Speaker 1: attacked at every turn by numerous people who want the
Speaker 1: deep state to survive. So tell me once you know
Speaker 1: firsthand from your experience in the CIA, what the CIA
Speaker 1: has been doing.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 2: I mean, there have been movies and there have been
Speaker 2: books written about.
Speaker 1: The CIA meddling and foreign elections and being kind of
Speaker 1: puppet masters of who the deep state, of the shadow
Speaker 1: government in the US wanted in those positions overseas and
Speaker 1: foreign countries. But tell me what you know about in
Speaker 1: our own elections. I mean, I thought the CIA was
Speaker 1: an agency that only acted outside the borders of the US.
Speaker 9: Well, it's supposed to be, but of course it's not.
Speaker 9: In the article, I go through.
Speaker 11: Several presidential administrations and elections where the CIA has had
Speaker 11: a direct influence on the outgoing propaganda and the actual
Speaker 11: outcome of the election. And recently there's a classic example
Speaker 11: the forty two senior intelligence CIA senior intelligence officers that
Speaker 11: came out and claimed that Hunter Biden's laptop was a
Speaker 11: Russian disinformation.
Speaker 9: Which which indeed it was not. It was actual evidence.
Speaker 11: Those same forty two CI officials have come out and
Speaker 11: signed another letter stating that Donald Trump is a threat
Speaker 11: to democracy, he must be kept out of office at
Speaker 11: all costs. And an additional let's see if a seven
Speaker 11: hundred and forty one other intelligence officials have come out
Speaker 11: and signed a similar letter. So they're already trying to
Speaker 11: affect this election in favor of Kamala Harris, which of
Speaker 11: course for many of us, would be a shocking event
Speaker 11: if she was elected, and I think a direct threat
Speaker 11: to what we view as constitutional democracy. So we see
Speaker 11: with these forty two signatories and the seven hundred and
Speaker 11: forty one other national security officials, that they are already
Speaker 11: trying to influence this election against Donald Trump.
Speaker 9: And towards Kamala Harris. The CI does not have the
Speaker 9: legal or constitution authority.
Speaker 11: To do that, but as we have learned over the
Speaker 11: past years, and I've spoken on many times, they could
Speaker 11: care less whether they abide by the Constitution or not.
Speaker 1: Well, I have said, and it's pretty obvious to me
Speaker 1: and anybody who's actually objectively paying attention, Kevin Ship that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is only a threat to the deep state,
Speaker 1: He's only a threat to the so called swamp. He
Speaker 1: is only a threat to those people who are desperately
Speaker 1: trying to hold on to power, that are unelected, that
Speaker 1: are paid by our tax dollars, and they just took
Speaker 1: they don't want to lose their gigs. I mean, because
Speaker 1: Donald Trump obviously is someone and you know, the first
Speaker 1: time around was the first time around. I think that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump had too many insiders in his first administration
Speaker 1: because he needed somebody who'd been around Washington before. And
Speaker 1: I think he learned his lesson well from that, and
Speaker 1: a second Trump administration would be a lot less heavy
Speaker 1: with those hangers on your thoughts.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and that was very painful less remember what Chuck
Speaker 11: Schumer said, anybody that crosses the intelligence community, they have
Speaker 11: three ways from Sunday of getting at from going after them.
Speaker 11: Of course I've experienced that personally, but yeah, they test
Speaker 11: Donald Trump because of that. And I did a detailed
Speaker 11: program on the Russia collusion hoax and how the CI,
Speaker 11: in particular CI director John Brennan took the Steele dot
Speaker 11: c A, which was derived from Russian intelligence sources, framed
Speaker 11: it so it looked like intelligence leaked it to the
Speaker 11: national media, calling it CI intelligence, which indeed it was not,
Speaker 11: and once again was manipulating our elections and attacking Donald
Speaker 11: Trump that way. The Russia collusion hoax was a complex
Speaker 11: essentially coup against a sitting and now president elect.
Speaker 1: Was this kind of stuff going on with the CIA
Speaker 1: when George HW.
Speaker 2: Bush was there?
Speaker 11: Absolutely, I've done programs on this too. Of course, George H. W.
Speaker 11: Bush was a longtime CIA officer, although he tried to
Speaker 11: conceal it, going all the way back to the Potta
Speaker 11: oil around the Cuban missile crist crisis. He was a
Speaker 11: CIO officer for decades.
Speaker 9: When he was elected vice president, that was the CIA
Speaker 9: in the White House.
Speaker 11: When he was elected president, that was the CIA in
Speaker 11: the White House, and we saw that resulted in Iran
Speaker 11: Conturan and lying to congrese.
Speaker 9: And committing multiple felonies. George H. W.
Speaker 11: Bush is probably the premier example of what I call
Speaker 11: the shadow shadow government, some called the deep state of
Speaker 11: the shadow government, deep state actually running the White House.
Speaker 1: Did you do you believe that that Dick Cheney ran
Speaker 1: the White House for Bush forty three, as many people
Speaker 1: have suggested, Yeah, tell me what you know about the
Speaker 1: former Vice president Dick Cheney, who has been another anti
Speaker 1: Trumper from the word go.
Speaker 11: Well, and of course he has to be, because he's
Speaker 11: the deep state bubblehead who was a mastermind behind a
Speaker 11: lot of the responses I'll just say, responses to nine
Speaker 11: to eleven, the nine to eleven Commission Report, which was
Speaker 11: which was a sham and was hugely behind a lot
Speaker 11: of the CIA's covert operations behind the back of Congress.
Speaker 11: He's a dark figure and that's putting it nicely.
Speaker 1: So tell me about what you know about the CIA's
Speaker 1: involvement going back as far as the Kennedy assassination in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, because there have been all kinds of
Speaker 1: accusations and conspiracy theories and the like about the CIA
Speaker 1: being involved in taking out JFK.
Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Well.
Speaker 11: Of course, JFK had just come out and said he
Speaker 11: was going to pull out a Vietnam, which was the
Speaker 11: CIA's crown jewel and represented about one trillion dollars in
Speaker 11: income for the CIA and its contractors, so there was
Speaker 11: a whole lot of money at taken. Secondly, the CI
Speaker 11: falsified the Gulf of Tonkin attack where they claimed the
Speaker 11: Vietnamese to attack one of our ships, when in reality
Speaker 11: no such thing happened, and they actually doctored the radar
Speaker 11: with ghost ships to make it look like the Vietnamese
Speaker 11: did attack. It was a false flag, So the entire
Speaker 11: thing that started with a false flag. Kennedy was going
Speaker 11: to stop that, pull out of that. And of course
Speaker 11: Alan Dulles, his chief enemy who we fired over the
Speaker 11: Bay of Pigs. Alan Dallas was having secret meetings with
Speaker 11: high level CI officers on ways to get rid of
Speaker 11: John F. Kennedy and get him out of office after Kennedy
Speaker 11: fired him. And it's interesting after the Kennedy assassination and
Speaker 11: photographs of the CI officer right there on the ground
Speaker 11: outside d Lee Plaza after it happened, guests who they
Speaker 11: put in charge of the Warrant Commission, which of course
Speaker 11: was a joke, was Alan Dulles, the director of the CI,
Speaker 11: was put in charge the investigation of Kennedy's murder. Dallas
Speaker 11: coached the CI witnesses, he withheld evidence, and.
Speaker 9: Basically controlled the whole thing.
Speaker 11: And that gives you an idea the power and the
Speaker 11: depth of control that the CIA has over our government.
Speaker 1: Now as the CIA actually benefited America. Because I mean,
Speaker 1: I wonder all the time, Kevin about all of these
Speaker 1: bureaucracies and departments and et cetera, et cetera, and Washington
Speaker 1: d C. You know, I think that the DHS has
Speaker 1: become an obese, unnecessary organization. For example, and I you know,
Speaker 1: all all that happened during nine to eleven basically said okay,
Speaker 1: local law enforcement and the FEDS need to be need
Speaker 1: to have a direct line of communications. Instead of setting
Speaker 1: up that direct line of communications, they set up a
Speaker 1: whole new, multi billion dollar bureaucracy in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: More centralized government. And you know now DHS is in
Speaker 1: charge of things like ice and border patrol. And they obviously,
Speaker 1: through may Orcus and the Biden administration purposely have you know,
Speaker 1: led those to be failure organizations on purpose. So what
Speaker 1: what is the CIA ever done, positively, say, in the
Speaker 1: last fifty years for Americans?
Speaker 9: Yeah, and by the way, may Orcus makes my blood boil.
Speaker 9: But that's another subject.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got that time.
Speaker 11: The as far as the CI goes, people will say, well,
Speaker 11: you know, if you if you question the CI, because
Speaker 11: as you know, in Twilight, I'm calling for reform of
Speaker 11: the CIA and the elimination of its power of secrecy
Speaker 11: and the removal of its corporate or its covert operations.
Speaker 11: It's doing without the laws of the American people. I'm
Speaker 11: calling for that to end.
Speaker 9: So people will say, well, doesn't the CI protect us
Speaker 9: from terrorism? Wouldn't we be at risk for that?
Speaker 11: Well, the problem is I would say no, because they're
Speaker 11: doing things Congress does not approve.
Speaker 9: And also, if you want to talk.
Speaker 11: About terrorism, it was the CIA that created Osama bin
Speaker 11: Lada and al Kaeda, armed them, trained them, showed them
Speaker 11: how to blow up cars and bombs and all of that.
Speaker 11: They also helped create isis. They were responsible for the
Speaker 11: overturn of the democratically electric government in Iran, which resulted
Speaker 11: in the terrorist state of Iran.
Speaker 9: We have today. And I can go on and on
Speaker 9: and on and on about the the fou.
Speaker 11: Pause they have made under the incredible power they have
Speaker 11: of secrecy. So I would say no, that job can
Speaker 11: be done much better by the Pentagon or even the
Speaker 11: DEDA or someone else without the corruption, the secret budget
Speaker 11: that no one knows about except the Gang of Aiden.
Speaker 9: They're only fed, but the CI wants them to have.
Speaker 11: So No, if you look at the history, and I've
Speaker 11: got a long list of CI atrocities and violations, of
Speaker 11: the constitution here that are just inexcusable. So it needs
Speaker 11: to be dismantled and reformed and keep the good parts
Speaker 11: that Truman intended, like the Director of Intelligence, which is
Speaker 11: a very I worked and was trained by them, a
Speaker 11: very sharp organization for analyzing intelligences and satellite imagery and
Speaker 11: other things like that. There are parts of the say
Speaker 11: it like that, that are good. It's the covert operational side,
Speaker 11: the director of Operations of the CI, that has gone
Speaker 11: totally rogue really since it's in session.
Speaker 9: In nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 1: You mentioned John Brennan, one of the forty two CIA,
Speaker 1: former CIA operatives who signed on to the fact that
Speaker 1: the Russian or that the Biden laptop was nothing but
Speaker 1: Russian disinformation and they vowed that that was the true.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned John Brennan. What always astounded me was,
Speaker 1: how does someone who in there in their adult life
Speaker 1: was a card caring member of the Communist Party, how
Speaker 1: do we put him in charge of this top intelligence
Speaker 1: agency within our own government.
Speaker 2: What was the thing about here?
Speaker 11: I'm sorry enough to you there, Yeah, I have to
Speaker 11: take CI is an extremely progressive left wing organization, and
Speaker 11: so Brennan was kind of a good fit for that philosophy.
Speaker 11: And I remember when I was back in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 11: way back then, when I.
Speaker 9: Was there, we were ordered into a conference room and
Speaker 9: told that this came down from the Director.
Speaker 11: To CIA, that no CIA employee could say Merry Christmas,
Speaker 11: and CI office spaces could not have a major scene
Speaker 11: on their desk or any decorations whatsoever on their door,
Speaker 11: or they'd face administrative penalties.
Speaker 9: So it's been progressive and leftist sance way back then.
Speaker 9: It is now too an extreme.
Speaker 11: We can even see the quote unquote woke side of
Speaker 11: the CIA, which is now dumbing it down even further.
Speaker 9: So it has been left wing along the same kind.
Speaker 11: Of ideology of John Brennan, going way way way back,
Speaker 11: so that those two were a perfect fit.
Speaker 2: Mike Pompeo good guy or not.
Speaker 11: You know, it's really puzzling because I understand Mike Pompeo
Speaker 11: gradually a west point from a guy who knows.
Speaker 9: Him well, is a good man.
Speaker 11: The problem with Mike POMPEII, and this happens when he
Speaker 11: became director of the CIA, he went rogue.
Speaker 9: Like happens it happened to me.
Speaker 11: For five years, they start working on you and you
Speaker 11: start seeing things their way, and they're very good at
Speaker 11: doing that, and avently to Mike Pompeo put out an
Speaker 11: order for the assassination of Julian Assange, that is the
Speaker 11: first thing. And Mike Pompeo also called Tucker Carlson, threatened
Speaker 11: him with the rest if he didn't stop talking about
Speaker 11: Assange and other things. And sadly that was Mike Pompeo
Speaker 11: that did that. Now, later he came out and said, well,
Speaker 11: I could have done better at trying to reform the CIA. Well,
Speaker 11: I don't think he tried at all, because.
Speaker 9: I know it's virtually impossible to do that. But so
Speaker 9: you know, it's kind of a double led sword.
Speaker 2: There, all right.
Speaker 1: So your book, Twilight of the Shadow Government, how transparency
Speaker 1: will kill the Deep State? How confident are you that
Speaker 1: the deep state can be unseated from you knows its
Speaker 1: covert power and be rooted out and reformed. If reform
Speaker 1: is the answer, if not dismantlement, that's a great question.
Speaker 11: I'm convinced enough. I took the risk when I wrote
Speaker 11: From the Company's Shadows. The CIA redacted or blacked out
Speaker 11: large swaths of unclassified information that showed their criminal activity.
Speaker 9: So when I wrote Twilight of the saut of Government,
Speaker 9: I knew they were going to do.
Speaker 11: That again to this manuscript and black everything out against them.
Speaker 11: So I defied my CIA secrecy agreement and sent this
Speaker 11: to the publisher for publication. Anyway, and I've already got
Speaker 11: my first threat. I'm the only one that can go
Speaker 11: after because I'm the only one that signed their paperwork.
Speaker 11: But I have consciously accepted that risk so I can
Speaker 11: get this out to the American people. And that resulted
Speaker 11: in Twilight of the Shadow Government. So and in the book,
Speaker 11: I make the case, especially towards the end. I get
Speaker 11: twelve points for CI reform, and then I say, really
Speaker 11: the last point, the only thing we can do. There
Speaker 11: has to be an avalanche of public outrage for reform
Speaker 11: of the CIA, and there has to be outrage and
Speaker 11: pressure on the congressman and senators who have done nothing
Speaker 11: to reform it and will do nothing because it means
Speaker 11: the destruction of their career. Essentially, people need to start
Speaker 11: putting pressure on their congressman and senators to begin investigating
Speaker 11: the CI and calling the CI into question. And those
Speaker 11: congressmen and senators, some of which are in the pocket
Speaker 11: of the.
Speaker 9: CI and that's a whole other program.
Speaker 11: But if those Congressmen and senators don't do it, then
Speaker 11: the people need to fire them.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the human penis with ears known as
Speaker 1: the head of the DHS.
Speaker 2: Since you said that may Ericus makes your blood.
Speaker 9: Boiling, you know you got two hours?
Speaker 2: No I did. Actually I got about thirty forty seconds.
Speaker 11: The guy has no soul, well, no ethics, no moral compass,
Speaker 11: no nothing.
Speaker 9: He is a complete puppet.
Speaker 11: Of the Biden administration and will do anything they say
Speaker 11: and do whatever they order him to do. He needs
Speaker 11: to be in peach sooner rather than later. And if
Speaker 11: we get a non Kamala Harris administration, I'm sure that'll
Speaker 11: be the first thing that happens.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Trump was famous for saying you're fired on TV for years,
Speaker 1: Hopefully he can do this in real.
Speaker 2: Life with characters. So I see that Alejandro.
Speaker 1: Majorcus Kevin Ship, former CIA agent, author of the book
Speaker 1: Twilight of the Shadow Government, How Transparency Will Kill the
Speaker 1: Deep State? And I pray that it's so. And thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being a part of the show tonight.
Speaker 2: Kevin enjoyed it.
Speaker 9: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: You bet you it's the Nightcap and it continues in
Speaker 1: moments on seven hundred WLW you l.
Speaker 2: W Garry Jeff welcoming back.
Speaker 1: I guess we have had on several occasions because she's
Speaker 1: just that good. Hired Sergeant Betsy Brentnor Smith, who is
Speaker 1: the spokesperson for the National Police Association, a nonprofit that
Speaker 1: supports law enforcement officers around the country. She started as
Speaker 1: a police dispatcher when she was seventeen, how about that,
Speaker 1: and did everything from patrol to investigations, to narcotics, juvenile
Speaker 1: hostage negotiation, crime prevention K nine field training and it
Speaker 1: has been a law enforcement trainer for over twenty years now.
Speaker 1: And Betsy, tonight, we're talking about the FBI crime statistics
Speaker 1: that have been released in the last year here in
Speaker 1: a presidential election year, that say, and have said over
Speaker 1: and over again repeatedly, that violent crime is down under
Speaker 1: Joe Biden.
Speaker 2: Don't believe you're lion eyes.
Speaker 1: And now, just like employment numbers, they've had to revise
Speaker 1: those to show that violent crime has actually been up
Speaker 1: in the last three and an half years.
Speaker 2: And good evening.
Speaker 1: If you want to speak to that or anything else,
Speaker 1: the floor is yours.
Speaker 13: Welcome, Well thanks so much for having me. Isn't it
Speaker 13: interesting that even though the rest of us were sounding
Speaker 13: the alarm that crime was rising, we were told even
Speaker 13: in a presidential debate that in reality a crime was
Speaker 13: going down.
Speaker 7: But the FBI, who.
Speaker 13: Has unfortunately become ridiculously unreliable when it comes to things
Speaker 13: like this, they kind of lost about eighty thousand violent crimes.
Speaker 13: So in reality, robbery is up, murder is up, car
Speaker 13: theft and car jacking are up in almost every major
Speaker 13: blue city in this country. And by the way, retail
Speaker 13: theft in twenty twenty two, and understand all these statistics
Speaker 13: are from twenty twenty two, has cost retailers over seven billion,
Speaker 13: seven billion with a bee since twenty twenty So, well,
Speaker 13: trime is not you know, it's not down.
Speaker 1: You got to look at businesses and what they have
Speaker 1: been forced to do in response to this retail theft. Today,
Speaker 1: Walgreens just announced they are closing twelve hundred more locations
Speaker 1: lower earning locations, and the biggest reason is because of
Speaker 1: this unchecked retail theft and the fact that they have
Speaker 1: to put everything in cased in plastic. You know who
Speaker 1: has employees to be ready with keys all around the
Speaker 1: store to make sure that you're not being stolen blind from.
Speaker 2: And there are many reasons for this there.
Speaker 1: The no cash bail California is the voters there are
Speaker 1: finally seeing the light about nine hundred and fifty dollars
Speaker 1: limit you can take without being arrested for anything, basically.
Speaker 2: The figures.
Speaker 1: Last year, the FBI reported America's violent crime rate fell
Speaker 1: by one point seven percent, as you said, but the
Speaker 1: revision shows it's increased by almost five percent, so they're
Speaker 1: playing with the numbers again, fast and loose. As you mentioned,
Speaker 1: the FBI has become a messination of the deep state
Speaker 1: and the establishment in Washington, d C. In the swamp
Speaker 1: and they just continue to Basically, the Federal Bureau of
Speaker 1: Incompetence has proven that they are just that in time
Speaker 1: after time after time, and they are a political organization,
Speaker 1: not a law enforcement organization anymore.
Speaker 2: Is that too strong?
Speaker 13: I don't think it's too strong. You know, I've worked
Speaker 13: with FBI agents on the ground, you know, for decades,
Speaker 13: and they have terrific you know, agents that actually do
Speaker 13: police work. But you know that the headquarters in Washington.
Speaker 12: D C.
Speaker 13: Is incredibly swampy, and I think one of my biggest
Speaker 13: frustrations with these revised crime numbers is that initially the
Speaker 13: FBI tried to blame local law enforcement, said, well, it's
Speaker 13: local law enforcement didn't understand our new system. They changed
Speaker 13: from something called uniform crime reporting in twenty twenty two
Speaker 13: to something called DIVERS the National Incident Based Reporting System.
Speaker 13: They said, oh, local law enforcement didn't really catch on.
Speaker 13: In reality, only about forty percent of law enforcement agencies
Speaker 13: even report these numbers to the FBI, in large part
Speaker 13: because they don't have the time and the staffing to
Speaker 13: be able to do it. Because again we go back
Speaker 13: to twenty twenty and the demonization, the vilification of the
Speaker 13: American law enforcement officer, the defunding of our agencies, remember
Speaker 13: in part thanks to federal officials who are now in charge,
Speaker 13: and so you know, we have got to prioritize what
Speaker 13: we're doing in our local law enforcement agencies. So even
Speaker 13: agencies as large as LAPD are not reporting these crime
Speaker 13: statistics to the FBI because they just don't have the
Speaker 13: staffing to do it. So blaming local law enforcement, remember
Speaker 13: that's what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania's your Secret Service tried
Speaker 13: to blame local law enforcement, when in reality, as we
Speaker 13: now know with the report that just came out, that
Speaker 13: it was absolutely the federal government Secret Service who was problematic.
Speaker 13: So don't believe your lion eyes, folks, as they told you,
Speaker 13: primarily is on the rise.
Speaker 10: Don't believe the federal government right now.
Speaker 2: Well, and then.
Speaker 1: That's the thing, and it's the same thing with Secret
Speaker 1: Service that you mentioned with the FBI. The agents that
Speaker 1: are out there on the front lines generally are doing
Speaker 1: a great job and they care about protecting and serving.
Speaker 2: But it's at the top in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: And this obese federal government that only exists to keep
Speaker 1: itself alive, basically feeding off the rest of us, that
Speaker 1: is the problem. Now, do you think, Betsy and I
Speaker 1: have a feeling the way you're going to vote or
Speaker 1: have voted, But do you think that President Trump, if elected,
Speaker 1: can you know, as he's mentioned, actually route this corruption
Speaker 1: and this lack of enforcement out.
Speaker 2: Of official Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: It's so large, and it's so systematic, and it's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why the establishment in our federal government
Speaker 1: certainly does not want him to win because they don't
Speaker 1: want to lose their cake job and their power.
Speaker 13: Well, you know, the National Police Station doesn't get involved
Speaker 13: in candidates, but I will say that the policies that
Speaker 13: I have read coming out of the Trump campaign indicate
Speaker 13: that they want to bring state, local, and yes, federal
Speaker 13: law enforcement back to its noblest nature. In other words,
Speaker 13: that federal law enforcement's job will go back to doing
Speaker 13: police work, because that's exactly what needs to happen. I mean,
Speaker 13: we need a robust federal law enforcement, but we don't
Speaker 13: want federal law enforcement to take over for state, county,
Speaker 13: and local law enforcement. We want to see policies, and
Speaker 13: that's why it's so important as a voter not to
Speaker 13: just get eaten up with who's going to be president,
Speaker 13: but take a look at your local elections, your mayor,
Speaker 13: your county board of supervisors, your town council. That's who
Speaker 13: controls your local law enforcement. And law enforcement is decentralized
Speaker 13: for a reason. It's constitutional, and so we need to
Speaker 13: we need to go back to that. In my opinion,
Speaker 13: all around this nation.
Speaker 2: I agree. Amen.
Speaker 1: Hallelujah sister, thanks thanks for preaching the truth. The National
Speaker 1: Police Association. What are you currently doing with the National
Speaker 1: Police Association to support our law enforcement officers around the country?
Speaker 13: I'll tell you what, if everybody we'd go to our website,
Speaker 13: nationalpolice dot org, National police dot org. We have a
Speaker 13: team of lawyers, we have a team of writers. Sign
Speaker 13: up for that newsletter, take a look at what we're doing.
Speaker 13: We even have a great free homeschool program that you
Speaker 13: can download. We have a terrific presence on social media,
Speaker 13: both on x and on Facebook. And if you can
Speaker 13: hit that donate button and help us, help not just
Speaker 13: the American law enforcement officer, but those citizens who support us.
Speaker 1: Betsy Branner Smith, thank you so much, National Police Association.
Speaker 2: You heard her, go to the website. Thanks for being
Speaker 2: on the show tonight, Bets.
Speaker 8: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: You got it.
Speaker 6: Want to be debt free by January. Get rid of
Speaker 6: all that high interest debt and consolidate everything into one
Speaker 6: lower payment. Hey, it's Eddie, a media expert also has
Speaker 6: been called the PR Guru. This is that's that's a
Speaker 6: heck of a title right there in and of itself,
Speaker 6: and he's been on the show before. We welcome him
Speaker 6: back tonight for a few minutes. Michael Levine, welcome back
Speaker 6: to the Nightcap here on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 12: Brother, thank you very much. Oh sheerly.
Speaker 2: Thank you for ensuring your valuable.
Speaker 12: Thank you for assuring your valuable audience. Let's uh, let's
Speaker 12: talk straight to some good people.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: You've written this piece about Generation Z gen Z, and
Speaker 1: the title of the piece is Adolf Hitler had some
Speaker 1: good ideas in heir quotes, one fifth of gen Z
Speaker 1: Americans believe according to a new poll, and we got
Speaker 1: polls about everything, and this one is extremely disturbing to me,
Speaker 1: is and it kind of goes in hand, Michael, with
Speaker 1: the fact that there's other polls which are kind of
Speaker 1: indicative of this kind of thought pattern, have shown that
Speaker 1: gen Z does not believe an absolute free speech either.
Speaker 1: They think that a certain speech should be quashed.
Speaker 12: So that's what the bulls say, and it's also deeply frightening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think they kind of go hand
Speaker 1: in hand with that, with that thought pattern that, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe freedom, absolute freedom for every individual isn't isn't the
Speaker 1: best thing. We need some totalitarian control and maybe some
Speaker 1: death and maybe some maybe some ovens, you know, to
Speaker 1: get rid of the undesirables or the deplorables.
Speaker 2: Or whatever they're going to call them.
Speaker 1: I mean, what what did this say, and what did
Speaker 1: you write about this particular topic in your piece.
Speaker 14: Well, friend, first of all, it is hard to get
Speaker 14: past the headline. It's hard to get past the shock
Speaker 14: and depression that one feels when they recognize.
Speaker 12: That a large number, now not a majority, but a
Speaker 12: growing number of young people have some ideas that are
Speaker 12: deeply antithetical to the society in which we were born,
Speaker 12: and the society that most people in the world thought
Speaker 12: was the hope of humanity, that's the society called America. Unfortunately,
Speaker 12: through a process it would appear to me of either
Speaker 12: bad or no parenting parents who have made a decision
Speaker 12: to try to be their kids' friends, not their kids instructors,
Speaker 12: particularly morally. Then in education that starts in kindergarten and
Speaker 12: goes right up to college, where right and wrong is
Speaker 12: simply a matter of opinion. And I guess that could
Speaker 12: might be traced back to removing the Ten Commandments out
Speaker 12: of schools and all kinds of things. And then, of
Speaker 12: course you go to elite universities and you see not
Speaker 12: no longer fine education, but terribly effective in doctrination. I mean,
Speaker 12: when you saw some of the stuff that was going
Speaker 12: on at these elite universities, Harvard, Columbia and many others.
Speaker 12: You don't know if you're watching a horror movie or
Speaker 12: this is a Twilight Zone episode, or you're not quite sure.
Speaker 12: So I know there's a lot of despair in what
Speaker 12: I'm saying, and I think appropriately so. But on the
Speaker 12: other hand, some people feel the darkest shower comes right
Speaker 12: before the dawn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I happen to be one of those people
Speaker 1: that have a hopeful, optimistic view of what you've just described.
Speaker 12: This dart too hard to understand given the numbers, But
Speaker 12: go ahead.
Speaker 1: This dark dystopian present that you're talking about and that
Speaker 1: we see on a regular basis, whether it be and.
Speaker 12: That we created. By the way, it's so easy, isn't
Speaker 12: it for us to sit in a room, an air
Speaker 12: conditioned room, and blame politicians. But if you recognize that
Speaker 12: politics is nothing more than culture downstream, that we elected
Speaker 12: these people, we donated to these people, we applauded these people,
Speaker 12: we re elected these people, then the blame, it would
Speaker 12: seem to me, resides much more in us than in them.
Speaker 1: It's the darkest part that you're pointing out that I'm poorting.
Speaker 1: I'm looking towards the dawn, and it's always darkest before dawn,
Speaker 1: and I believe that dawn is coming. But you're right,
Speaker 1: it has to take an act of not only God
Speaker 1: but also parents and educators to turn this around. When
Speaker 1: we live into a society where basically eugenics is preached
Speaker 1: and as a right via abortion and unabated abortion and
Speaker 1: planned parenthood for over one hundred years, Michael, that is
Speaker 1: the same philosophy that Hitler had, was that some people
Speaker 1: are inferior to others and they must be eliminated. And
Speaker 1: the abortion mills in this country are nothing but a
Speaker 1: hitler esque reminder of that.
Speaker 14: I think, well, friend, look, I'm a political independent.
Speaker 12: I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I'm what
Speaker 12: I guess would be called a radical pragmatist. I want
Speaker 12: to know what the hell works for society to not
Speaker 12: only remake it great again, but to understand the fundamental
Speaker 12: principles that went into its greatness. Right, there were certain
Speaker 12: precepts and if we don't readopt some of these and
Speaker 12: throw many of the toxic notions in the garbage can
Speaker 12: of history, I don't share your optimism, dear brother. If
Speaker 12: we're going to continue down this path of ideas that
Speaker 12: have failed horribly and just praise them as you know,
Speaker 12: in some kind of gaslighting experiment. I don't have hope.
Speaker 12: I have a dark feeling. On the other hand, if
Speaker 12: we can say, okay, we tried that. It may have
Speaker 12: had the best of intention, but it was prove naive
Speaker 12: and impossible to achieve, and so we're going to change course, okay,
Speaker 12: then then I have hope.
Speaker 1: If you point out to a Marxist or a Socialist
Speaker 1: that it's never worked where it's been tried in the past,
Speaker 1: they go, well, they just didn't do it correctly.
Speaker 12: Correct, that's right.
Speaker 1: But if you get you're talking about the basic precepts
Speaker 1: and the principles that America was founded on, Michael, then
Speaker 1: getting back getting back to the Constitution as a literal
Speaker 1: document that was you know, set in stone. You get
Speaker 1: back to those kind of principles and you start teaching
Speaker 1: them to the next generations, then you don't have this.
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 12: I think you're I think you're right. And I think
Speaker 12: if somebody were to go on.
Speaker 15: YouTube today and relook at Ronald Reagan's farewell address to
Speaker 15: the Nation where he said we are just one generation
Speaker 15: away from losing it all.
Speaker 12: I think he proved prophetic. We we got much more
Speaker 12: interested in what's a nice word for nonsense? In Netflix
Speaker 12: and Instagram and TikTok, and we turned our backs on
Speaker 12: reading history, and we turned our backs on discipline and
Speaker 12: you know, the kinds of fundamental things that made our
Speaker 12: nation exceptional. Now all people, but too many, far too many.
Speaker 12: We got a generation mostly of minorities, hooked on this
Speaker 12: idea of victimhood about as I mean, if you said
Speaker 12: to me, Michael, which do you think is worth worse
Speaker 12: for minority kids? Get him hooked on the logic of
Speaker 12: they are victims for life or crack cocaine, which would
Speaker 12: be worse to them? I'd say, can I think about
Speaker 12: it for a little.
Speaker 2: Bit, Michael Levine, My time's up? Unfortunately, okay, all.
Speaker 12: Right, friend, till the next was of value?
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Oh you're a good man.
Speaker 12: And to the opportunity.
Speaker 2: I'm a little depressed now.
Speaker 1: Into another hour of night cap on a Monday night,
Speaker 1: October the twenty first, twenty twenty four, Gary Jeff Walker
Speaker 1: with you on seven hundred WLW and joining us as
Speaker 1: he is wont to do on many Monday Nights is
Speaker 1: the one and only sports commando, the wild Man, Dennis
Speaker 1: Wildman Walker, How.
Speaker 2: You doing who day and all of that? What's going on, Dennis?
Speaker 10: Well, I'm doing real good gause. Anytime I can talk
Speaker 10: about a Bengals victory is a good thing. I mean,
Speaker 10: the vision win, a conference win, and the end of
Speaker 10: the six game losing Street and Cleveland. All is good
Speaker 10: right now and Bengal lane.
Speaker 1: I can't believe that a franchise, any franchise in the NFL,
Speaker 1: can be as snake bit at the quarterback position as
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns. They do it to themselves with some
Speaker 1: of their decisions and draft picks and signings, which is
Speaker 1: kind of the case this time. The signing of Deshaun Watson,
Speaker 1: which I scoffed at from the very beginning, for the
Speaker 1: moment I heard it, They're gonna guarantee him this much money.
Speaker 1: They're gonna pay him two hundred and fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1: The guy hasn't even played a full season in the NFL.
Speaker 1: He had a few good games, and then yesterday, and
Speaker 1: my wife and I are watching, and probably anybody who
Speaker 1: was watching that when he went down yesterday, we knew
Speaker 1: it was an achilles, which is just and if he
Speaker 1: snapped the achilles, I mean, I don't know that he'll
Speaker 1: he'll be right again. Wild Man. What is it with
Speaker 1: the Browns? And I know it's great for the Bengals,
Speaker 1: but what is it with this franchise in Cleveland? Ever
Speaker 1: since they came back to the NFL, They've gotten into
Speaker 1: a couple of playoffs, but other than that, they just
Speaker 1: have the worst luck with quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 10: The football gods have not been good to the Cleveland
Speaker 10: Browns since they've you know, rejoined the National Football League.
Speaker 10: They haven't. I mean that's not the only you know,
Speaker 10: they've had some other bad decisions, but a lot of
Speaker 10: it is football related. They have had some good personnel
Speaker 10: in there. I mean, they had Bill Belichick and one
Speaker 10: time as their head coach and they let him go.
Speaker 10: So a lot of it is on ownership. They've had
Speaker 10: two ownership groups. I think since they returned to Cleveland.
Speaker 1: How many general managers have they gone through?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 10: A lot. And it is sad because I mean, I'm
Speaker 10: not rooting for the Browns when the Bengals and the
Speaker 10: Browns are playing, but I grew up as a Browns fan.
Speaker 10: I mean's you know, I grew up as a Browns fan. Man.
Speaker 10: I remember the nineteen sixty four NFL Championship like it
Speaker 10: was yesterday because we didn't have the bank. I remember
Speaker 10: watching it block of white TV. You got three channels,
Speaker 10: you know, right, Frank Ryan and Gary Collins and Jim
Speaker 10: Jim Brown the greatest football player ever ever, Jim Brown,
Speaker 10: the greatest football player ever. And then to see this
Speaker 10: franchise the way it is now, good Lord, and then
Speaker 10: not only you know, Gary just talking about the injuries,
Speaker 10: what about all the bad luck and games that they've had.
Speaker 10: The fumble by Ernest Binder, Oh my god, the pick
Speaker 10: six on Brian Sipe, Oh my god. It's just it's
Speaker 10: just it's a mess.
Speaker 2: It's one.
Speaker 1: It's one thing after another with this franchise. And since
Speaker 1: they've returned to the NFL to Cleveland, how many quarterbacks
Speaker 1: have been starting for the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 2: You know what they've had. They've had no list, They've
Speaker 2: had Morse.
Speaker 1: They've had Morse starting quarterbacks in the time they've been
Speaker 1: back than I have had producers on my Saturday morning
Speaker 1: show in the twenty seven and a half, which is
Speaker 1: like twenty eight or twenty different producers, you know, and
Speaker 1: they're like said, Gary, Jeff, we got you a good
Speaker 1: one this time. He's young, but he should be with
Speaker 1: you for a couple of years. And he's gone in
Speaker 1: three months, either he quits or they move him somewhere else.
Speaker 2: But it's the same thing with the Browns.
Speaker 1: They have had more starting quarterbacks, and I've had young
Speaker 1: producers on my Saturday morning show wild Man, which is crazy.
Speaker 10: It is bizarre. I remember seeing that total. I don't
Speaker 10: know what it's up to. I remember some of them
Speaker 10: starting quarterbacks who played maybe a three or four games,
Speaker 10: but they always seem to beat the Bengals. The's no
Speaker 10: name quarterbacks, Yeah, had no name quarterbacks would always beat
Speaker 10: the Bengals.
Speaker 1: Do you think if instead of starting Deshaun Watson they
Speaker 1: had started the kid, the DTJ or DTR kid that
Speaker 1: came in the backup, who was the third string quarterback.
Speaker 1: I mean, they've got Jamis Winston on the roster who was.
Speaker 10: He moved the team pretty well. And I know Dave
Speaker 10: sent Dave Lapman was saying, you know, had he started
Speaker 10: the game, it could have been a different outcome for
Speaker 10: the Browns.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Bengals could not get moving on offense in
Speaker 1: the first half at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not for the Charlie Jones house spectacular.
Speaker 1: Was Charlie Jones one hundred yards to start the game?
Speaker 2: That was awesome.
Speaker 10: Well, and you know that kickoff return was only I
Speaker 10: think maybe his third kickoff return. Says he's been with
Speaker 10: the Bengals because they've been using just on punt returns.
Speaker 10: And that scene that opened up a special teams yesterday
Speaker 10: played out standing, not only on that kickoff return here
Speaker 10: Gary Jeff, but also on that I believe it was
Speaker 10: a kickoff and they got down and the Browns kind
Speaker 10: of screwed it up, and the special teams went down
Speaker 10: and then down it on like the six yard line,
Speaker 10: which was huge.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, special teams were very crucial in yesterday's victory, and
Speaker 1: so was once again the defense. Nick Chubb was back
Speaker 1: for the first time in three hundred and eighty nine days.
Speaker 1: That's the last time Nick Chubb, the running back for
Speaker 1: the Browns, had had been on the field since the injury,
Speaker 1: and or three ninety eight something that it had been
Speaker 1: over a year, been like a year and a month
Speaker 1: since Nick Chubb had sued it up in an NFL
Speaker 1: football game, and everybody's all the announcers are all energetic,
Speaker 1: the National TV announcers, Oh, Nick Chubb, it's gonna you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's if anything's going to make a difference for
Speaker 1: this Brown's offense, it's Nick Chubb and he's back and
Speaker 1: the Bengals shut him down.
Speaker 10: I had to. I had to turn off. I had
Speaker 10: to turn off the game on my phone. I was
Speaker 10: watching the game on my phone. I had to turn
Speaker 10: it up because of these guys. They were just like
Speaker 10: praising like Jim. Nick Chubb was the next thing to uh,
Speaker 10: you know, to slice bread. I had to turn it off.
Speaker 10: They were so bad. So I turned the radio on
Speaker 10: to listen to h Dave Lapham and Dan Horde. And
Speaker 10: every time I had the radio on yesterday, the Bengals scored.
Speaker 10: I don't know what it was. I said, I'm going
Speaker 10: back to listening.
Speaker 2: To the radio.
Speaker 10: That's the one I had. Because when I had the
Speaker 10: radio off, the Bengals were struggling. I turned the radio
Speaker 10: back on. This since I turned it back on, we scored.
Speaker 10: We scored that touchdown. That touchdown pass the first one
Speaker 10: to Jamar Chase. So I just listened to the game
Speaker 10: on radio because those announcers were all Nick Chubb, were
Speaker 10: all Cleveland Browns. They were all like pulling, pulling for
Speaker 10: the Browns to beat the Bengals. I couldn't stand it anymore.
Speaker 1: So they were they were so biased. I couldn't believe
Speaker 1: on a national TV bias. Uh, you know, how can
Speaker 1: these guys just be smooching up to Browns fans because
Speaker 1: it's there's there's more people in Cleveland than Cincinnati. I
Speaker 1: don't know what the reason was, but you're right, it
Speaker 1: was wastelanded.
Speaker 2: That's something we noticed as well.
Speaker 1: And I'm just kind of mystified by now. Cleveland's defense,
Speaker 1: let's give it it's due, is pretty darn good.
Speaker 2: But it's very good defense.
Speaker 10: I told you that they had a deep, good defense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very job.
Speaker 10: At halftime, i'd have time. I wasn't in the locker
Speaker 10: room and you weren't in the locker room, but I
Speaker 10: have a strong feeling that Joe Burrow got with Zach
Speaker 10: Taylor and said, look, you know, they got a good defense,
Speaker 10: but we're gonna go down. Let's go down swinging and
Speaker 10: let me start throwing this ball. The t Higgins and
Speaker 10: Jamar Chase and what did they do? They came out
Speaker 10: they started throwing throwing the ball, did they not? Jamar
Speaker 10: and T and I got two touchdowns.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I'll tell you this, and you and I
Speaker 1: have talked about this before. If Joe Burrow, if they
Speaker 1: let him be in charge of that offense, it's better
Speaker 1: than what they've been doing to this point. Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: has the kind of Joe Burrow has the kind of
Speaker 1: football IQ And I think that Joe Burrow more than likely,
Speaker 1: when he retires from playing, whenever that will be, and
Speaker 1: I hope it's not anytime soon, is going to be
Speaker 1: an offensive coordinator or a head coach somewhere in charge
Speaker 1: of an offense. Because he's got that kind of brain,
Speaker 1: and he's got the skills as long as his body
Speaker 1: holds up to execute what his brain is telling him
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 10: Well, that's a long ways off. Let's not even go
Speaker 10: across that path. But if anything, he might be an
Speaker 10: owner ru all the money he makes.
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
Speaker 9: They could buy a team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean, like you said, they opened up.
Speaker 1: They opened up that offensive aerial display in the second half,
Speaker 1: and it paid benefits and paved the way for the
Speaker 1: Bengals' third victory of the year. Now looking ahead, the
Speaker 1: Eagles are in town next Sunday at pay Corps Stadium,
Speaker 1: and this is not an easy task for the Bengals
Speaker 1: to get five hundred.
Speaker 10: Either, not at all, not at all. Berkley, what one
Speaker 10: hundred and seventy yards yesterday against the Giants, Well, that
Speaker 10: was that was that was some Giants.
Speaker 2: That was some grudge running yesterday against the Giants.
Speaker 10: Barkley still a damn good running back. He really is. Yeah,
Speaker 10: he really is a dam good running back. Bengals haven't
Speaker 10: won a home game yet. I think got to get
Speaker 10: that monkey off their back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how is that?
Speaker 1: I mean they can go in and win on the
Speaker 1: road against teams that they're supposed to beat. Can you
Speaker 1: imagine how difference is the season would be if the
Speaker 1: Bengals had been ready to go in Week one and
Speaker 1: taken care of the Patriots, taking care of the Patriots
Speaker 1: like they should have, like everybody expected. The odds makers
Speaker 1: had him seven and a half point favorites going into
Speaker 1: that first game of the year, wild Man, and they
Speaker 1: lay that egg against New England, which has proven to
Speaker 1: be just as bad as everybody said they were gonna be.
Speaker 10: You have the only victory this year by the England
Speaker 10: Patriots against the Cincinnati Bengals h Aay Horse Stadium. That's
Speaker 10: I like to say, unbelievable, anthy Mack. But hey, we
Speaker 10: gotta move on. We gotta go on worrying about that.
Speaker 10: I gotta take care of business. Comes Sunday against Eagles.
Speaker 1: So what do you think about the Bengals chances? Now,
Speaker 1: they did improve their playoff chances a little bit by
Speaker 1: percentage by history with the victory yesterday to get to
Speaker 1: three and four they get, they get to four.
Speaker 2: It you're talking about.
Speaker 10: What I know. I know, but hey, that's true. That's
Speaker 10: let's not even think about that. They're not thinking about
Speaker 10: that right now.
Speaker 2: Playoffs and that's a playoff.
Speaker 10: Playoffs. Let's get let's get to five hundred and then
Speaker 10: you know, then take then then the Raiders come to
Speaker 10: town and then you know, then you got the Ravens,
Speaker 10: then you got the buy Let's let's not let's take
Speaker 10: one game at a time. Hearing, I don't even think
Speaker 10: about the playoffs. Every team, you know, I said this
Speaker 10: last week, on any given day, you can get beat Yeah,
Speaker 10: becas have got to take care of business. I don't
Speaker 10: the defense. Hey, if you will look for some positive,
Speaker 10: the defense is played well. The last two weeks, they
Speaker 10: really have what I defense is played well.
Speaker 1: What I have seen around the NFL so far is
Speaker 1: that the Lions are just absolutely they are so hungry
Speaker 1: and they are so good. And Dan Campbell has them
Speaker 1: on a projection with what they did to Minnesota yesterday.
Speaker 1: I mean, they did wind up winning a game, didn't
Speaker 1: they The Lions.
Speaker 10: Absolutely they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and then Baltimore and you want to talk
Speaker 1: about within the division, wild man, boy, that that team
Speaker 1: just frightens me to death as a fan of any
Speaker 1: other team in the AFC. I know they've got two losses,
Speaker 1: but it's like they gave the rest of the league
Speaker 1: a two game head start by losing those games.
Speaker 10: You know, I forgot to mention Jerry Jeff I forgot
Speaker 10: to mention this to you. The two touchdown passes that
Speaker 10: Joe Burrow through yesterday. Yep, they were a thirteenth and
Speaker 10: fourteenth of the season. Oh now has fourteen touchdown.
Speaker 2: He's having a remarkable offensive season.
Speaker 10: No, he has fourteen touchdown pass Oh I'm sorry again,
Speaker 10: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Pete Rose again. By the way, you
Speaker 1: sent me a picture of your son who you named
Speaker 1: after Pete Rose, who was at some concert. He's like
Speaker 1: reliving the old man's wild days, going to see Jesse
Speaker 1: James Dupre Yeah.
Speaker 10: Out there in Illinois. Yeah, Jesse hooked him up with
Speaker 10: the VIP pass. Sitting at table fourteen fourteen happening. That's weird,
Speaker 10: two weird, that's excellent. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you see anybody else in the NFL
Speaker 1: that you think is really on track to do some
Speaker 1: marvelous things postseason and beyond?
Speaker 2: What do you see those.
Speaker 10: I watched that Chiefs game last night, and they demonstrated
Speaker 10: the other number one team in football. They might they
Speaker 10: might go undefeated the Chiefs because this was supposed to
Speaker 10: be a tall task against the forty nine ers and
Speaker 10: the forty nine ers. It was like one step forward,
Speaker 10: three steps back yesterday afternoon. The Chiefs are very tough.
Speaker 10: The lot of the Lions, like you said, the Ravens.
Speaker 10: Those are the three top teams right now. I mean,
Speaker 10: look around. I mean that's let's be honest. Those are
Speaker 10: the three tops team and the chief the Chiefs. Could
Speaker 10: you know the Chiefs could make history. I mean they
Speaker 10: when they went that last Super Bowl, what did they say,
Speaker 10: three pete, we want to win three in a row
Speaker 10: because it's never been done. It's never been done. We
Speaker 10: could be watching history right now, I'm told less.
Speaker 1: And the undefeated season hasn't been done since those nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy two Dolphins.
Speaker 2: So watch out history.
Speaker 10: That's right, that's right. The champagne that they want to
Speaker 10: put it on ice.
Speaker 2: Well, you know that the Chiefs.
Speaker 1: The Chiefs are my team, wild man, and have been
Speaker 1: for six years. So what what has really really got
Speaker 1: me giddy is the fact that Kansas City keeps on
Speaker 1: finding different ways to win every game, and different scenarios
Speaker 1: come up, and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: They find a way to win.
Speaker 1: Uh the tow on the line at the end of
Speaker 1: the end zone and it's it's called no touchdown. You know,
Speaker 1: just thing after thing after throwing, week after week after week.
Speaker 1: The Chiefs find different way to win. But the common
Speaker 1: denominators Olas Patrick Mahomes and an very improved defense.
Speaker 10: And Andy Reid. Andy Reid, without a doubt, I mean,
Speaker 10: he's put that team together. They've got a great, great,
Speaker 10: great defensive coordinator there bag Nola Oh, he's outstanding. But
Speaker 10: it starts at the top. They've got great management at
Speaker 10: the top, and they've got a great quarterback. There's a
Speaker 10: Hall of Famer, without a doubt. Today he decides to
Speaker 10: hang it up, and they know how to win. They
Speaker 10: know how to win.
Speaker 1: Wild Man real quickly. The World Series is set. Yankees Dodgers.
Speaker 1: Who you got?
Speaker 10: Oh boy, when you break it down here, you know,
Speaker 10: as a baseball fan, as a Reds fan, my attitude
Speaker 10: was if the Reds never won the Pennant, I'd always
Speaker 10: root for the American League. And I'm going to root
Speaker 10: for the New York Yankees. Why because Paul O'Neill does
Speaker 10: the television. Aaron Booner is a former Red He's the
Speaker 10: skipper they've got. But Luke Weaver has been their closer.
Speaker 10: He pitched, he couldn't get anybody out, but now he's
Speaker 10: one of the keys for the Yankees. I'm picking the
Speaker 10: Yankees to beat the Dodgers, both teams with big payrolls
Speaker 10: trying to buy, you know, a world series. Yankees have
Speaker 10: got the big stars too. When I'm talking about you know,
Speaker 10: when you talk about Aaron Judge and Stanton and what
Speaker 10: that kid named Juan Soto. You'll go with the Yankee
Speaker 10: Yankees and six.
Speaker 1: All right, there you go, Yankees and six. How many
Speaker 1: touchdown passes does Joe Burrow have this year so far?
Speaker 10: Wild curly right now? Fourteen? There's that number again.
Speaker 2: Have a good night, brother, Thank you, thank you, sir.
Speaker 2: You got it.
Speaker 1: It's the wild Man Walker on the night Cap. And
Speaker 1: we continue in moments on seven hundred WLW the political
Speaker 1: season of twenty twenty four. We stand just two weeks
Speaker 1: away from election day. And a guy who knows all
Speaker 1: about election days and elections and getting people elected, and
Speaker 1: political strategist and Arthur author of The Trail of the Serpent,
Speaker 1: Stories from the smoke filled Rooms of politics, a guy
Speaker 1: who sat in a lot of them. Carter Wren joins us. Carter,
Speaker 1: good evening, and welcome to the Nightcap.
Speaker 2: How are you good evening, da.
Speaker 1: So we obviously are in the middle of what is
Speaker 1: being called the most consequential election ever, which I hear
Speaker 1: a lot in my lifetime. Election Yeah, and what appears
Speaker 1: to be a very very tight race.
Speaker 2: And you are in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Speaker 1: You were instrumental in helping President Ronald Reagan win primaries
Speaker 1: and eventually get elected. You've worked on too many campaigns
Speaker 1: to even mention in the short time we have here
Speaker 1: together tonight. But from a historical perspective, Carter, from Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan to Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been compared to
Speaker 1: Reagan in many ways, and I see I see the
Speaker 1: similarities just from a standpoint of the left or the
Speaker 1: other side calling them the devil and threatening nuclear war
Speaker 1: if either one was elected. I lived through that with
Speaker 1: Reagan's term in nineteen eighty. That was the first election
Speaker 1: I got to vote in, was nineteen eighty, by the way,
Speaker 1: So that kind of tells you where I'm at. And
Speaker 1: I have voted for President Trump twice now and I'm
Speaker 1: planning on voting for him again. But tell me about
Speaker 1: the what is the what are the similarities between Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan as a president and Donald Trump as a president?
Speaker 16: First, well, Reagan, the issue that dominated that his campaigns
Speaker 16: was winning the Cold War. Yeah, that was created a
Speaker 16: we lost the Vietnam War. A lot of shocked World
Speaker 16: War Two veterans, swats, Russian tanks rolling into Saigon, and
Speaker 16: they thought, my lord were losing the Cold War. And
Speaker 16: bear in mind they'd lived through World War II. And
Speaker 16: that created a river of people that elected Reagan three
Speaker 16: times or twice eighty and eighty four elected him in
Speaker 16: the North Carolina primary in seventy six. The odd thing
Speaker 16: about Trump's selection. Most selections are about issues like Reagan's.
Speaker 16: Were Trump's selections really more about character? The key group
Speaker 16: of voters this time are swing voters, independent voters, and
Speaker 16: they're not wild about Harrison. They don't like Trump, and
Speaker 16: so they're trying to make a Hobson's choice. And you
Speaker 16: don't see that type of character election often, and that's
Speaker 16: the unusual thing about this election. They're struggling to decide
Speaker 16: which is two candidates they dislike the least.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there are a lot of things that are
Speaker 1: playing in this election. Sadly, a natural disaster has played
Speaker 1: a part in this upcoming election, just because of the
Speaker 1: timing of when the storms hit and how fast people
Speaker 1: can recover. Since you're in North Carolina, Carter, I've got
Speaker 1: to ask you, what is the situation in the tar
Speaker 1: Heel state and are people going to be able to
Speaker 1: get out and vote because of the damage of Helene.
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's hard to know the answer to that question.
Speaker 16: The western part of the state, which is a Republican
Speaker 16: area got hit pretty hard by the hurricane, and they
Speaker 16: started early voting here yesterday or two days ago, something
Speaker 16: like that, and they had a huge early voting turnout,
Speaker 16: more than they've ever seen. But you really don't know
Speaker 16: how much of that was in the West, and you
Speaker 16: don't know how many of those families you know that
Speaker 16: had their houses flooded, and there were a lot of
Speaker 16: them are going.
Speaker 2: To be able to vote.
Speaker 16: Technically they can, and they've made some changes in the
Speaker 16: voting rules to make it easier, but that's avaiable. We
Speaker 16: don't know the answer to that could end up impacting
Speaker 16: the election.
Speaker 1: Money always matters in these situations, Carter. But in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: for example, Hillary Clinton had twice as much money spent
Speaker 1: on the campaign than Donald Trump, and it still didn't
Speaker 1: move the needle in her direction enough to get her elected.
Speaker 1: The Kamala Harris campaign has a lot of money in
Speaker 1: their coffers. How much does money matter and how much
Speaker 1: does being on the ground and pressing the flesh matters
Speaker 1: when it comes to a presidential campaign.
Speaker 16: In a presidential campaign, money matters, but it matters less than, say,
Speaker 16: in a governor's.
Speaker 2: Campaign or a Senate campaign.
Speaker 16: There is so much media coverage of presidential elections that
Speaker 16: people get more information from media like.
Speaker 2: Your radio show, or like.
Speaker 16: Fox News or CNN, then they get out of advertising
Speaker 16: paid ads. So I saw that when Steve Forbes ran
Speaker 16: in ninety six. Yeah, I remember, we spent a ton
Speaker 16: of money in Iowa, more than anybody else. But once
Speaker 16: the media locked in on the race, it just was
Speaker 16: more effect than any ads. And so I think the
Speaker 16: media is more important in the presidential races than in
Speaker 16: other races. You're running for governor or senate. There's just
Speaker 16: not as much media coverage, and so ads make a
Speaker 16: bigger difference. But I think that ultimately in the presidential race,
Speaker 16: the media coverage is the most important factor. And the
Speaker 16: stuff about knocking on doors and all that, I think
Speaker 16: that really makes a ton of difference. I remember one
Speaker 16: time was in a campaign Jesse Helms ran for reelection, Okay,
Speaker 16: and we spent a year knocking on doors and spent
Speaker 16: millions of dollars, and he moved up four points in
Speaker 16: the polls. And then the poster came in and said, well,
Speaker 16: the Democrats having their primary in three months, and we
Speaker 16: all to do TV ads just so we're out there.
Speaker 16: We don't want people just to be seeing them. So
Speaker 16: we spent quarter of a million dollars on three months
Speaker 16: of TV ads and he move done eight.
Speaker 12: Points in the polls.
Speaker 16: So media had a lot more pact than down knocking.
Speaker 16: So I think that I think the media is going
Speaker 16: to be the crucial thing in the presidential race.
Speaker 8: At the end of the day.
Speaker 1: How did global events like the Iran hostage crisis and
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen pandemic sway elections? And we've seen that both
Speaker 1: in our lifetimes, obviously, and both had a lot to play.
Speaker 1: I would say the Iran hostage crisis was important for Reagan,
Speaker 1: but everything else was going south for the Carter administration.
Speaker 1: The economy and the interest rates and everything else was
Speaker 1: just it seemed like it was a perfect storm of
Speaker 1: nothing good for Jimmy Carter in nineteen eighty. But the
Speaker 1: Iran hostage crisis did play a role, right, I think
Speaker 1: it played a huge role. You know, in politics, the
Speaker 1: unexpected always happens. Nobody ever anticipated in Iran hostage or COVID,
Speaker 1: And at the end of Reagan's eighty election, the Poles
Speaker 1: had it dead.
Speaker 2: Even it was a toss up, but.
Speaker 16: There was a big group of undecided voters at the
Speaker 16: end and they all went to Reagan and he won
Speaker 16: forty four states. That was the Iron hostage crisis' impact
Speaker 16: on that election, you think, so you know they yeah,
Speaker 16: they looked at that and said, we're losing the Cold War.
Speaker 16: We can't handle the Iran crisstage ran hostage crisis. Boom
Speaker 16: they broke for Reagan and everybody was surprised on election.
Speaker 2: Night by how much he won.
Speaker 16: COVID I think had the same impact on Trump. Uh,
Speaker 16: you know, he had a pretty good three years and
Speaker 16: then boom, COVID hit. And yeah, I don't want to
Speaker 16: be critical, but I don't think he handled it all
Speaker 16: that well. He told people, it's going to go away,
Speaker 16: at it under control, The tests are going to be fine.
Speaker 16: Then the tests didn't work. That was something that was
Speaker 16: outside of everybody's control. Nobody anticipated because nobody could stop it.
Speaker 16: And so I think that hurt Ragging a lot. I
Speaker 16: think they had a lot to do. I mean, Biden
Speaker 16: win and that in Biden staying in his basement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's another thing.
Speaker 1: Has Kamalad done a good enough job of hiding because
Speaker 1: now she's come out of hiding and doing more appearances,
Speaker 1: and she is going down in the polls.
Speaker 16: Carter, Well, you had to take the polls today with
Speaker 16: a grain of salt. You know, a good poll is
Speaker 16: a good thing in politics, but they cost a lot
Speaker 16: of money. Most of the polls you see in the
Speaker 16: media didn't cost money, and the purporters tend to miss
Speaker 16: the margin of era. You could see a poll Harris
Speaker 16: is up by one, Well, that means she could be
Speaker 16: down by two or up by one. And I think
Speaker 16: what you basically this turned into once Biden got out.
Speaker 16: You had two polarized groups, Republicans and Democrats that lined
Speaker 16: up behind their candidates. I think it's just gonna be
Speaker 16: a close selection all the way down to the wire.
Speaker 16: And that's what you've got. And some of the polls
Speaker 16: are reliable, but they all show it's close.
Speaker 2: Well, they all show it's close.
Speaker 1: But there have been a lot of reports that Democrats
Speaker 1: are internally freaking out because the polls aren't going their way.
Speaker 1: I mean, Hillary Clinton had what kind of at this
Speaker 1: point in the campaign in twenty sixteen, had a huge lead.
Speaker 1: Joe Biden had a bigger lead, and it turned out
Speaker 1: to be just a matter of ten or twenty thousand.
Speaker 2: Votes in twenty twenty that swung the.
Speaker 1: Election, really, and they were also prize on Hillary's side
Speaker 1: of the ledger. And she is still complaining that she
Speaker 1: thinks she won in twenty sixteen, which I think that
Speaker 1: makes her an election denier.
Speaker 2: Don't you.
Speaker 16: Well, it was a shock that Trump won in sixteen.
Speaker 16: The post did show her way ahead, but you you
Speaker 16: had a river of people in Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania,
Speaker 16: in swing states that went for Trump, and that had
Speaker 16: to do with the fact they looked at Trump and
Speaker 16: they looked at Hillary, and they saw Hillary as a
Speaker 16: politician and they didn't like politicians, and the polling missed
Speaker 16: all that.
Speaker 8: And so.
Speaker 16: Polls are a good thing, but you've got to take
Speaker 16: them with a grain of salt because they can be
Speaker 16: pr polls or they can be real polls. And so yeah,
Speaker 16: don't ignore them, but don't don't make a bet based
Speaker 16: on a poll.
Speaker 1: So that's what you've learned as a political strategist, is
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't really pay attention to polls when
Speaker 1: you're helping with the campaign.
Speaker 2: Carter, No, I pay a.
Speaker 16: Lot of attention to polls. But bear in mind if
Speaker 16: campaign takes a poll, they're going to spend a lot
Speaker 16: of money on it. Take a poll in a state
Speaker 16: like Ohio, it's going to cost you thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 16: and you're going to need somebody to interpret five hundred
Speaker 16: pages of numbers that knows.
Speaker 2: What they mean.
Speaker 16: Very few media outlets do that when they do polls.
Speaker 16: So a lot of the polls today are we're going
Speaker 16: to do a poll so we can put publisher story
Speaker 16: and get, you know, some people to read our newspaper
Speaker 16: or watch our TV program. I think you've got it
Speaker 16: to trust most of the pulse. There are good pollsters
Speaker 16: out there, but not many.
Speaker 1: The book is The Trail of the Serpent. The author
Speaker 1: is Carter Wren, who knows a little bit about political campaigns,
Speaker 1: and that's the understatement of the year. Carter, I appreciate
Speaker 1: your time today very much, and no, no matter what
Speaker 1: happens in the election, I'll still want to talk to
Speaker 1: you afterwards.
Speaker 16: That would be fine. I'd look forward to it and
Speaker 16: I wish you the best. All right, you as well, sir.
Speaker 16: Great luck with the book. Carter Wren with us on
Speaker 16: the nightcap. Back to close, in just a moment on
Speaker 16: seven hundred WL.
Speaker 1: As we close this nightcap, a conversation came up last
Speaker 1: week at Tabar that I thought i'd mentioned. We're talking
Speaker 1: about the names of people that I've been blessed to
Speaker 1: know in my thirty years in radio in Cincinnati, and
Speaker 1: one of the names that came up was Sensible Don.
Speaker 1: Don Lewis my dear dear friend Don Lewis, or at
Speaker 1: one time a dear dear friend, and I mentioned at
Speaker 1: the end of the conversation there with Carter Ran, no
Speaker 1: matter what happens in the election, I hope we have
Speaker 1: a chance to talk again. We may not agree on everything,
Speaker 1: and turns out that we don't from the conversation we had,
Speaker 1: but it was a delightful conversation. The man's got some knowledge.
Speaker 1: Sensible Don had a lot of knowledge about life. That's
Speaker 1: why we called him Sensible Don. But something happened along
Speaker 1: the way to being friends for life, and I can
Speaker 1: truly say it really wasn't on my part, It was
Speaker 1: on Don's. Don got sick late in life, had kidney failure,
Speaker 1: needed dialysis, and so I mean I didn't see much
Speaker 1: of him in his last years. But the dialysis and
Speaker 1: his health problems weren't the reason I didn't see much
Speaker 1: of Don Lewis anymore. The reason I didn't see much
Speaker 1: of Don Lewis anymore was because he found out that
Speaker 1: I voted for Donald Trump. He found out that I
Speaker 1: supported the president, and I must be a racist because
Speaker 1: I voted for Donald Trump. And Don basically cut me off,
Speaker 1: cut me out of his life. We'd gone to breakfast together,
Speaker 1: to lunch together. I'd been over his house numerous times.
Speaker 1: Knew his wife, Pam, great lady by the way. But
Speaker 1: because I supported a candidate he did not agree with.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I was persona on grata, and
Speaker 1: you see that happening, and it's been happening for the
Speaker 1: last decade in this country, and that needs to stop.
Speaker 1: It needs to stop right now. It needs to stop
Speaker 1: with this election. Regardless of who you vote for or
Speaker 1: who you support, if you're a friend of mine, you're
Speaker 1: a friend of mine. I've got plenty of people who
Speaker 1: I know are voting for Kamala Harris, and I don't
Speaker 1: cut them out of my life. I don't stop talking
Speaker 1: to them. We may not talk much politics because we
Speaker 1: know it's a nowhere road, but that doesn't mean we
Speaker 1: can't be friends.
Speaker 2: It hurt me greatly.
Speaker 1: It still hurts me greatly, and I prayed about it
Speaker 1: to what happened with my friendship with sensible Don Lewis.
Speaker 1: It's a wound that is still open, obviously, and I
Speaker 1: just needed to vent and get it off my chest.
Speaker 1: I miss him so much. I miss his wit, his
Speaker 1: sense of humor, the wisdom that he did have and
Speaker 1: the wisdom he didn't have sometimes. But Don, you're no
Speaker 1: longer with us, and I've never really talked extensively about
Speaker 1: it on the air, but I wanted to again just
Speaker 1: kind of air it out a little Catharsis on the
Speaker 1: radio for me, and I guess it beats one hundred
Speaker 1: dollars an hour for therapy. But with that, mend your
Speaker 1: relationships with people if they've been shattered by political differences,
Speaker 1: because that's just not worth it.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, in my experience. And with that, we
Speaker 2: leave you with
Speaker 1: The national anthem, Donna America on the Nightcap on seven
Speaker 1: hundred WLW