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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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I want to welcome everyone back to the Peking Yona's show.

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After a little detour, we are back to Thomas talking

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about Thirty Years War. So how you doing, Thomas.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thanks for hosting me.

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Speaker 1: Of course, of course take it away.

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Speaker 3: I mean dedicating a lot of thought and research to

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the fact that the Thirty Years War it framed German

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political consciousness in a way that was this positive. I

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would go as far as to say the entire theory

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of Sunderwig, which we've talked about in other episodes and series,

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was approximately derivative of the Thirty Years War experience. I'll

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get to know exactly what I mean in a moment.

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This is important, though, and I think this is well

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provide people with a a deeper and more relevant understanding

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of the subject matter and simply breaking down every discrete

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phase of the conflict or emphasizing military aspects and things,

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whether trivia of political intrigues only the various factions. It

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wasn't just a pragmatic affair that the Westphalian peace, inconceptual

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terms as well as in terms of practice, has created

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the modern state.

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Speaker 2: This was by necessity.

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Speaker 3: In terms of the historical process, there couldn't be a

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I mean, the Holy Run Empire had been destroyed, but

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it wouldn't have been possible to return to those sorts

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of political modalities and modern military doctrine as well as

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modern military science, and says it relates to political variables

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and understandings of national security and what it entails. That

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derived absolutely from the Thirty Years War, and the Thirty

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Years were also built created the Prussian state, even though

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Prussia Prussia didn't exist then it was, it was the

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Brandenburg Electorate ral practical purposes, but the experience of the

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Thirty Years War informed Prussian military doctrine for the you know,

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duration of its existence. And it and that includes the

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national socialist therap and unified Germany was really the imposition

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of the Prussian modeless state craft upon the entirety of

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the fatherland. This really interesting lesson known an essay by

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Ernselulti called I think it's called Germany and the Cold War.

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He talks about how well it makes a couple of

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fascinating points. And I'll tie this back in a moment,

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even if it seems tangential, Erstenaulti said, in modern conceptual terms,

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the right and left gives them. It didn't emerge from

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the French Revolution. He said, it emerged from the War

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between the States, and like Heideger and like Adolf Hitler,

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he viewed America as being at the forefront of historical potency,

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not just in the fact that in terms of technological

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innovations and momentum and things of that nature, but also

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in conceptual terms, America is at the forefront of determining

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the course of history in global terms. Literally, he said

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the War between the States. He said that the Union,

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which became the United States of America as we know it,

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was the first truly left wing or progressive state because

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of the premise entirely on abstractions and appeal to historical

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concepts extricated from epistemological realities of you know, the organic

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experiences of a people over time, he said, the South

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was axiomatic and unconditionally right wing. It was entirely based

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on this organic understanding of Americans as a discreet race

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of people possessed of a Christian faith that was overwhelmingly

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Protestant in nature. And it viewed political activity and essential

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capacities as activity that was tailored and implemented to guarantee

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the posterity of.

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Speaker 2: That, you know, a.

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Speaker 3: Discreete people and and their and their historically coded way

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of life. And I basically agree with that. And America

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and Germany were an odd dialogue. Nowhere is that more

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apparent than in terms of the national economics model that

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characterized America in the Gilded Age and slightly beyond, which

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the Germans adopted in its entirety.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think we're talked about how when you us.

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Speaker 3: Grant he he toured Germany and he was viewed as

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this really heroic figure there. And you know, Hamiltonian economics.

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Frederick List basically represents Hamiltonian economics through through a Teutonic

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conceptual lens. But anyway, the Prussian State or the Brandenburg

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what became the Prussian State Prussia was almost Germany was

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essentially destroyed like what was to become Germany was essentially

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destroyed by the Thirty Years War. Prussia survived because it

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wasn't truly a party combatant in a way that most

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of the central German territories were. But what the Prussians

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realized is that they had to they had to they

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had to maintain a credible military capability on a permanent

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perennial basis, because it was inevitable in their opinion that

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an event like a thirty years War would return and

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they wouldn't survive the next conflict cycle due to a

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burgeining interdependence at scale with the rest of the continent

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and other things as well as you know, they received

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as the ongoing existential racial conflict with the Eastern peoples.

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So the Prussian Kingdom not only did they create the

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first modern standing army as we think of it, they

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also implemented taxation at scale of everybody, you know. And

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this is very highly controversial, but the notion was, well,

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we face existential threats to not just our political but

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our racial survival at all times. So if people are

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gonna benefit from the protection of you know, that this

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mighty military apparatus affords able bodied manner required to serve

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in it, but also everybody's required to sustain it, you know,

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with a proportion of their wealth or their earnings. And

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I shouldn't need to elaborately explicate the degree to which

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America internalized this idea, except it's perverse here because America

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doesn't face those challenges, and you can't extricate this sort

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of strong central state apparatus, the purpose of which is

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social engineering in part, you know, to inculcate people with

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a patriotic sensibility. And you know, in the Athenian sense

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like Sorell talked about. You can't make that some derationated

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postulate and make it work. And also you can't justify

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it just on propositional grounds like America tries to, because

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then you have a tyranny. Then it's doing the opposite

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of what it's intended, and that's perverse. These things only exist.

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They're admittedly extreme measures that force people to sacrifice substantial

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aspects of their own liberties. The reason why that can

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be rationalized ethically as well as and you know, as

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well as every other way is because it serves the

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posterity of of the racial community. That's it, you know,

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and of course too it was very cynical and remains

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so today. I mean, it's unconsortably this idea that America

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needs this massive standing army as if there's some sort

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of as if there's existential threat constantly in the in

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the wings, you know. I mean, don't get me wrong,

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America does face threats, but not not. But the regime

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won't acknowledge that those threats even exist, and they certainly

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aren't ones of a conventional military major So this is important,

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you know, but so and in a very indirect way.

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But in there these capacities that were again literally just positive.

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Speaker 2: And how.

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Speaker 3: The United States of America developed after the war between

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the States, there is a linear trajectory from the Thirty

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Years War to you know, to No, it's not just

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a matter of trivia and it's it's it's not it

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doesn't just relate to you know, how the Germans does

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a people viewed that we would amounted to a tragedy

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the commons or there you know, or their unfortunate historical

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fate owing to this kind of collective experience of trauma.

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And if people require just anecdotally, if you're not, if

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anybody requires more data or more concrete understanding of the

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conflict within the European psyche, I mean, from the end

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of hostilities, you know, in sixteen forty eight until really

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even beyond nineteen forty five, because in the DDR this

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would continue to loom large. Just incidentally, there was another

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point nolt He made in his Cold War essay. He

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reiterated that East Germany was the real Germany, even though

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they were under hostile occupation and the seed only existed

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by design of the Soviet Union. He said that there

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was a There was both a potency to East Germany

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because communism was dictating the course of power, political events,

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and conceptual reality, especially in the early Cold War and Germany.

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East Germany was a purely ideological state, but it also

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claimed that it was the result of a German historical

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process that had resolved in socialism, which was being realized,

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which would bring about the end of history, you know,

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and I think there's something to that. He viewed the

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He viewed the Buddhist Republic as an absolute contrivance, you know.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was neither German nor European, nor was it nor

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was it just some mirror of America. It was it

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was this ideological construct that didn't purport to represent any

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kind of history resolution of processes. It simply represented, you know,

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an opposition to what was claimed to be perverse aspects

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of the German national character or some sort of economic

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engine and military arsenal contra communist aggression. There wasn't any

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potency there in the terms Noalty was talking about, and

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there were there weren't. There was only really one potentiality,

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you know, and even that even that potentiality of evaporated

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after the inner German border came down, you know, but

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to bring it back, and forgive me if I'm jumping

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around too much, the German stage in the eighteenth century

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was a big deal.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's not as storied as as the as the London

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stage is, but I argue that it was just as important,

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and a lot of plays were historically coded and oriented.

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Frederick Schiller, he was about the play right and historian.

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He He produced a series of plays based on the

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sacking and quite literal rape of Magdeburg. A joint force

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of the Imperial Army and the Catholic League assaulted Magdeburgh

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under the command of this upstart count.

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Speaker 2: And the men.

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Speaker 3: Who constituted this force they were half starved. They they've

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been in heavy action for months on end. And when

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they laid sieged mag the Berg and then finally breached

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the city walls, it was like when the Red Army

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laid siege to the German Reich. You know, little girls

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to old women were you know, we're raped over and

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over again. Old men and and little boys were slaughtered.

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Speaker 2: You know. It was this orgy of violence. And when.

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Speaker 3: A Protestant minister approached the count and he begged him

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to halt the violence, the count in so many words

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he said, I can't, I can't control it. It's in

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the hands of God or maybe the devil. But he said,

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if I don't let the routine and the murder rights course,

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I can't control these men at all. This is their reward.

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And uh the uh.

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Speaker 2: This is apocryphal.

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Speaker 3: But the Protestant minister said something to the effect of, well,

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then we're in hell. And this play about the sacking

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of Magda Bird coupled with this trilogy that Schiller also wrote,

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called the Vallenstein Trilogy, that sort of became the canon

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of the national traumatic experience of the Thirty Years War.

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And to be clear that there wasn't really a sectarian

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overlay to this, obviously, I mean, it so happens that

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in the case of Magdeburg, it was the it was

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the Imperial army in the Catholic League that was engaged

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in this orgy of rapine and violence, but Protestant militias

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did the same thing. And on an individual basis, the

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Calvinists under arms were probably the most extreme of anybody

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except the Croats and some of the Italians who with

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the vanguard of of of Roman Catholic forces. The Cross

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developed a reputation as being utterly savage fighters during this

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during the conflict cycle, which is interesting, you know what

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I mean that that endures this day, and I mean

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that Cross are great people. I'm not saying that pejoratively,

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mean quite the contrary, but.

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Speaker 2: You know, and the U Shillers.

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Speaker 3: Plays developed a following and during the Warriors and the

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Third Reich, which isn't surprising.

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Speaker 2: And of course Herman Lahnes varvof.

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Speaker 3: That's a great novel and Imperium Press just published an

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edition of it, which is which is fantastic. I mean

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that wasn't published until just before the Great War. I

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think it's it first went to print in nineteen ten.

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But that that was about this freehold farmer and his

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family's mass occurred by marauding mercenaries. So he he swears

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he's going to get revenge on these men. So him

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and a bunch of the other villagers, you know, like

242
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men of the village, they developed their own militia and

243
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they savagely attack any any of these mercenary bands who

244
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threaten the peace of the village, and he becomes this

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legendary citizen killer, you know, which obviously is deeply resident

246
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in the German psyche. And that's another thing too that

247
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you can take away from this. There's this sort of

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idiot caricature of German military violence and German military culture

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as being this kind of slavishly you know, almost it's

250
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being this kind of like institution that worships authority for

251
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its own sake and disdains personal initiative. I mean, that's

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nonsensral kinds of reasons, including the fact that German's literally

253
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invented mission oriented tactics. But the German ideal is a

254
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citizen soldier. It's the opposite of what the United States

255
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holds out, is the ideal as this kind of professional

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cast of you know, guys who are basically like a

257
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swat team with the permanent shoot to kill clearance that's

258
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deliberately discreete from the rest of the population.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: The I think a point again and again that the

261
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folks kind of gears that concept that wasn't just very

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forward looking in terms of how modern war developed. And

263
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it's fascinating, you know, if you look at their kit

264
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and stuff. They look like they could be in Vietnam

265
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or Nicaragua in the sixties and the eighties respectively, sixties,

266
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seventies or eighties. But it's also that concept that worked

267
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in a way. I don't think it would have been

268
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in France, or in Russia or in England. It would

269
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have worked in Scotland or Ireland, but the class divide

270
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and the peculiar dynamics they're in, I don't think that's

271
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sort of organization would have played out in a way

272
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that facilitated operational needs. But you know, all these things

273
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culminated in a very tragic course for Germany, you know,

274
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and that history does not repeat itself. That's an idiot's canard.

275
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But there is a clear trajectory that is determined by

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the historical experience, and nowhere is that more evident than

277
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the experience of Germany in the modern world, I.

278
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Speaker 2: Believe too, you know. And obviously.

279
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Speaker 3: The conditions on the ground and on the continent didn't

280
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impact Britain in direct capacities, although there were plenty of English,

281
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Irish and Scots and Wells who fought in the Thirty

282
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Years War as mercenaries. Owing to the fact that that's

283
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where the action was if you were a professional soldier

284
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or owing to sectarian motivations. You know what the modern

285
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,759
UK is as well as Britain in the distant in

286
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ancient past. It's sort of a microcosm of what goes

287
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on on the continent. I view the War three Kingdoms

288
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and Cromwell's ascendency as a microcosm of what happened in

289
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the Thirty Years of War in a lot of ways.

290
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And obviously when people speculate on Hobbes's conceptual horizon, they

291
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tend not to even mention the conflict variables that were

292
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,240
extant in the Thirty Years of War. But he was

293
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,839
absolutely impacted by those things. You know, there's less distance

294
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:44,279
there that I think is often allowed, particularly by court

295
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,279
history these days, is so anglophone and character, not just

296
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because it's become the global Lingua franco of academ but

297
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inconceptual terms.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what.

299
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Speaker 3: Determines thought patterns and the sort of parameters of my policies.

300
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,400
That's one of the reasons why I emphasized continental influences

301
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,119
so much. It's not just because I'm a Hegeli and

302
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:14,319
I believe these things will be true this is a

303
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:21,359
a an analytical model that is deliberately neglected. There's a

304
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,599
deep conceptual bias there. So I'd like to think my own,

305
00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:33,359
very small way, I'm contributing to that being rectified.

306
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: But it's also.

307
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: Tragedy and as the thirty years were, it was, and

308
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,279
don't get me wrong, it almost destroyed the Germans as

309
00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:47,960
a race of people, if you want to live it

310
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:54,720
like that. Hitler famously said that the German people were

311
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:57,440
scattered to the four winds, and you know, about a

312
00:28:57,599 --> 00:29:01,519
third of them are just annihilated, you know, maybe like

313
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:11,319
thirty to forty percent, they just died. And obviously in

314
00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:16,079
the early twentieth century people were far more oriented towards

315
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:25,079
understanding race and ethnos in biological terms. Hitler included as

316
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:33,160
a man of that of his epoch, so he spoke

317
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,079
of that kind of different racial types in Europe being

318
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:46,920
uprooted from their land of origin and mixed and scattered,

319
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:52,759
and in Hitler's viewed had taken almost three centuries for

320
00:29:52,799 --> 00:30:03,720
the German people to reconstitute in essential capacities, including biological

321
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:13,279
But the other side of that was owing to Prussian

322
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:19,559
ascendency in the aftermath of sixteen forty eight, and the

323
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:26,920
fact that the conflict cycle approximately caused or at least

324
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:33,680
facilitated at least was an essential condition precedent the Prussian

325
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:42,359
ascendency that did create the Prussian master cast narrative, I think,

326
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:51,359
and the second Reich, the kaiser Reich, that was viewed

327
00:30:51,440 --> 00:31:01,200
as the ongoing process of realizing the destiny of the

328
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:07,559
German folk after the destruction of the Empire. And that's

329
00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:09,160
one of the reasons. And I'm not saying this is

330
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,240
a positive thing, because sectarianism is always ugly, but you know,

331
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:22,519
the Coulter komp which originally described the holmes will learned

332
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:31,839
effort to purge Catholic influence from public life. You know,

333
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,960
this endured until the end of the kaiser Reich. In

334
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:43,240
some sense, supposedly Veilhelm's Wilhelm the Second's wife wouldn't let

335
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:54,839
Catholics in her house. But Prussia viewing itself not just

336
00:31:55,079 --> 00:32:04,599
as the master element of the German people and the

337
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:14,279
first among the vogue, but they also they're committed to

338
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:30,720
never again allowing a supranational imperative or authority or power

339
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:43,720
to set the vogue against itself, you know. And confidence

340
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:50,519
in the state, and confidence in the national narrative that

341
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,759
I mean, don't get me wrong, there was very bad

342
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,960
blood owing to excess to the culture comp and a

343
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,839
lot of catalogs are treated very badly, but that didn't deteriorate,

344
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:08,039
that did that never deteriorated or unraveled into uh the

345
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:12,599
kind of sectarian hatred that that happened in in the UK,

346
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:24,279
which is interesting. But Germany also, the kaiser Reich was

347
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:28,720
also far more of a united polity than the UK,

348
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:36,039
and even and even in England, you know, within that structure,

349
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,359
you know, and that's one of the things that's I mean,

350
00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:44,759
I've made this point again and again.

351
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,559
Speaker 2: Hitler was a Halfsburg Austrian.

352
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:58,319
Speaker 3: Whose furtive experiences were you know, being taught and kind

353
00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:01,000
of raised by priests. You know, he had abusive father

354
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,559
who then proceeded to die of a heart event when

355
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,679
Hitler was you know, a little kid, not even a teenager.

356
00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:17,440
You know, Hitler was a Habsburg Austrian who I identified

357
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:25,880
the National Socialists mandate as being the heir to Prussian

358
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:36,719
political culture. And you know, he had the confidence of

359
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:43,400
of his own tribe and they're adjacent coreligionists in Bavaria

360
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:51,119
as well as the unconditional loyalty of these northern Protestants

361
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:55,400
and these Prussians. You know, like we've talked about the

362
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,039
national Socialist heartland in terms of the electoral map was

363
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:05,280
the it was the semi rule Protestant North. You know,

364
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:12,519
that's remarkable because the Hitler Coalition really shouldn't have existed

365
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,840
if you look at things and conventional terms and what

366
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:29,719
people generally take for granted about European identity and how

367
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:40,679
the sectarian divide places into that among the things, and

368
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:48,719
that also there during the war, during the conflict cycle,

369
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:56,079
there was this you've probably seen them, I think most

370
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:58,159
people have. You know, if you spend any time in

371
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,159
museums or read books about the early modern period of Europe,

372
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:11,199
there's these engravings and carvings, both on metal and wood,

373
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,679
and that became the subject matter of those tended to

374
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:24,880
be historical. Sometimes they were iconographic and religious in nature,

375
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:32,960
but generally these etchings that dealt with political events and warfare,

376
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:40,840
and a tremendous amount were produced by these master engravers.

377
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:49,920
Jacques Callot. He produced a really famous one called The

378
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:59,039
Great Miseries of War that depicted atrocities in a way

379
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:05,360
that was shocking for the time. And there's another one

380
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:13,840
called terrors of the Thirty Years War, you know, and this,

381
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,840
of course a lot of people then weren't literate. But

382
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:23,679
you know, that's that's something too, that it tells you

383
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:24,840
something because.

384
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 2: There weren't.

385
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 3: You didn't find that kind of thing associated with the

386
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:38,719
Seven Years War or even with some of the crusades

387
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:45,000
in the East against the indigenous vends and things. And

388
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:48,639
don't get me wrong, there was extreme brutality there too.

389
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,079
But something happened to the to the continental psyche, you know,

390
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:59,400
particularly in in Germany and in particularly in German lands

391
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:08,199
and in in parts of France, that habituated them a

392
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:18,480
horror of a certain sort, and that I believe inculcated

393
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:29,599
German political life and understanding that when war arrives, really

394
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:43,159
anything is possible if the conflict cycle reaches a critical intensity,

395
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,679
you know, and that that's one of the things that

396
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:56,280
people don't understand. I was telling to some people the

397
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,960
other day over at dinner about the posts and speed,

398
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,519
which is you know, that was Himmler's sort of direct

399
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:12,119
acknowledgment of the ethnic cleansing, particularly of Jews, and a

400
00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:18,440
lot of mainstream historians aside from whatever idiotic mythologies and

401
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,519
ideological conceiche they include within their narrative. They act like, well,

402
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:29,079
Hitler's talking about these horrible acts with this dispassionate tenor

403
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:33,639
what a monster. I said, no, that, And people are

404
00:39:33,679 --> 00:39:37,480
gonna misunderstand. I'm saying, you're if I say that's within

405
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:42,480
the German political character, They're gonna say, oh, you're saying

406
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,679
that the Germans are monstrous. No, no, no, no, no, no,

407
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:50,480
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the

408
00:39:50,559 --> 00:40:00,760
German political mind and the German ontological sensibility about the

409
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,760
ethics of warfare is resigned to the fact that truly

410
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:14,679
monstrous acts become not just normalized with characteristic And yes,

411
00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:19,960
there was a lot of unprecedented variables in the Second

412
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:33,920
World War, but Europe Central was also habituated to a

413
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:45,599
degree of existential brutality, really sight unseen save some of

414
00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:55,920
the horrors brought to bear on the American frontier and

415
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:04,400
in the racial wars with the most sanguinary and savage tribes.

416
00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 2: But you know, in this.

417
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:25,079
Speaker 3: What's culturally resonant as regards were in peace questions. I mean,

418
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:27,599
this is this is important not just for the sake

419
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:31,280
of standing on ceremony, and not just for clarity and

420
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:37,519
the historical record. This is how people understand themselves as

421
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,400
a nation and as an ethnos and you know, with

422
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:51,079
within the terms of their confession and what the meaning

423
00:41:51,159 --> 00:42:01,199
is of their own uh, their own you know, shared

424
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:08,599
memory within their racial group, epigenetically and spiritually and otherwise.

425
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:18,800
I think that can't be overstated. And that's one of

426
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,960
the reasons why these lies about history have had such

427
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,400
a catastrophic effect on.

428
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:30,119
Speaker 2: The American character.

429
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: And how and why the punitive social engineering regime to

430
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,000
literally deculturate the Germans as a people has had such

431
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:51,239
a catastrophic effect on them.

432
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:51,519
Speaker 2: You know.

433
00:42:51,880 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 3: But to understand, I mean relatively, to understand the cultural

434
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:06,400
personae or the historical personae probably more accurately, of a

435
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,039
people is to decipher their historical memory.

436
00:43:11,039 --> 00:43:13,679
Speaker 2: And as late as.

437
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 3: Nineteen forty four or forty five, and even subsequent in

438
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:30,519
the DDR until the nineteen eighties, references both direct and

439
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:38,239
oblique to the Thirty Years War and the phenomena they're

440
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:45,880
in was a regular part of German national life. And

441
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:54,920
that's not accidental or some kind of curiosity. But the

442
00:43:54,920 --> 00:44:00,159
they're also two if we're gonna if people accept what

443
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:09,199
it postulated about the Thirty Years War being this outsized

444
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,679
causal factor in conceptual state craft in the modern era,

445
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:21,039
particularly as regards military affairs, but not but not exclusively.

446
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,719
There was this destructive fury to the Thirty Years War

447
00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:32,840
that was and I mean, I know some people, the

448
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,679
Summer visionists, say that that became sort of mythical, and

449
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,760
it did because myth making is always part of the

450
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:55,559
process of historical memory and aggregate. But it bore a

451
00:44:55,599 --> 00:45:11,440
real relation to reality, and that changed things. The modern

452
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:18,639
state again was born out of warcraft and high politics

453
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:29,360
and the exigencies presented by national security imperatives. You know,

454
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,280
that's one of the things. And again I'm no libertarian,

455
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:38,360
but that's one of the things that's wrong with the

456
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,960
progressive mindset. And that's one of the things that's wrong

457
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:46,800
with the United States as government developed after the War

458
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,000
between the States, and particularly after nineteen thirty three. The

459
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:56,639
state doesn't exist to teach children how to read or

460
00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:59,639
to give them one shit school. The state doesn't exist

461
00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:02,719
to help men and women get along better. The state

462
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,719
doesn't exist to make black people feel better about themselves

463
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:17,320
or to get girls interested in studying engineering or to

464
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:23,239
make you a better man or woman. The state exists,

465
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:30,559
as structured in the modern era, to guarantee the posterity

466
00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:38,920
of the national community and to manage military affairs and

467
00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:50,760
guarantee the existential security of the national community and adjacent

468
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,440
peoples who are legitimately under its dominion.

469
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 2: That's it.

470
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:07,519
Speaker 3: And this was always the understanding until very recently in

471
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:13,320
comparative terms. And so when we say that the Thirty

472
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:19,360
Years War, well, which that Prussia, the Prussian state is

473
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,559
the project, was the progeny of the Thirty Years War,

474
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:30,719
and that the Prussian state was the model of all

475
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:37,920
state craft at scale in the Western world. I mean

476
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:43,880
that that's what we're talking about, and the significance of

477
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:52,000
that can't be denied. And they were a buddle of that.

478
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:59,599
Or the criticism and ethical terms, there's all. There's there's

479
00:47:59,679 --> 00:48:05,840
a there's an empirical criticism too that i is a

480
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,519
little bit outside the scope at least for today today's discussion.

481
00:48:09,559 --> 00:48:16,719
But the uh, the ethical objection is that, well, a

482
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:25,719
state that's self constantly views its existential mandate as entirelygreative

483
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,039
of war is going to is going to be this

484
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:33,360
war mongering state. No not, I mean, there's always that potentiality,

485
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:39,960
but a state that a state born of military necessity,

486
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:47,800
there's going to be natural checks on the reckless exercise

487
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:54,880
of military violence. Just going to the reality of this

488
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:02,239
strategic balance and the existence of near peer competitors in

489
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:09,039
immediate proximity. But also one of the reasons why these

490
00:49:09,159 --> 00:49:21,920
uh normy sociologists and social science types who I mean,

491
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,440
first of all, like their big kink is pretending that

492
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:28,159
democracy has a meaning and isn't a floating signifier, particularly

493
00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:31,360
after nineteen ninety ninety one. But they also the have

494
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:37,360
this idea that the internal situation of the state somehow

495
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:41,960
impacts in this positive ways the external environment. That's ridiculous.

496
00:49:45,559 --> 00:49:52,440
That's like saying that somebody who has cancer is making

497
00:49:52,440 --> 00:50:04,599
the external environment toxic. You know, like I the state

498
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:11,440
is always unless you're talking about a true hedgemon, which

499
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:15,639
are something approaching that. America is not a conventional hedgemond,

500
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:21,079
but it the impact it has on the wider paradigm

501
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:27,360
is like that of a hedgemon. But globalism changes things.

502
00:50:28,039 --> 00:50:33,760
But with that exception, and there's it's more complicated than

503
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:41,760
I'm permitting. Admittedly, for this example. With that exception, it's

504
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:56,760
the strategic landscape that determines the form and structure of

505
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:04,159
the internal situation. It can't really can't be any other way.

506
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:16,039
And you know, but like I said, the it's complicated

507
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:22,559
in the case of America. And but also the way,

508
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:24,159
the way I mean this is this is a discussion

509
00:51:24,199 --> 00:51:27,639
for another eighty to the the way that America approaches

510
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,039
military affairs.

511
00:51:29,679 --> 00:51:39,119
Speaker 2: Is is it odds with is it odds with extant realities?

512
00:51:41,679 --> 00:51:44,599
But you know that.

513
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 3: Did present something of unique danger, and in the American case,

514
00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:07,800
even before America achieved through superpower capabilities, just by vertu

515
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,119
of the fact, even if you were to extricate the

516
00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:18,159
ideological motives of the New Dealers, I'm not singling them

517
00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:24,599
out to burn an effigy. The New Deal revolution was

518
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,800
truly revolutionary, okay, I mean that, and it totally altered

519
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,480
American national life and the structure of the American state.

520
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,079
It was the realization of the process that began when

521
00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:39,360
we were up in the States. As in terms of

522
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:46,320
what Nold he was talking about, but attempting to extrapolate

523
00:52:47,039 --> 00:52:58,559
those Prussian structural aspects to a purely ideological and propositionally

524
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:08,440
abstract political culture. You don't have any concrete or organic

525
00:53:08,599 --> 00:53:10,679
or historical variables.

526
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: To appeal to.

527
00:53:18,679 --> 00:53:23,039
Speaker 3: To unify the body politic or to command its loyalty

528
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:25,519
or at least its obedient compliance.

529
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,159
Speaker 2: And that.

530
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:41,519
Speaker 3: Conveys a grossly outside significance on warfare and its function within.

531
00:53:44,519 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 2: The state and.

532
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:56,519
Speaker 3: Its usefulness in managing the internal situation if you follow

533
00:53:56,599 --> 00:54:00,039
me there, and I think that's exactly what happened, and

534
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:07,639
it's not the whole story, but it's it's undeniable and

535
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:19,960
at base two, I mean I I hope to write

536
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:25,159
some law and form stuff on this too. Americans the

537
00:54:25,199 --> 00:54:33,239
core of America, there's a strongly Germanic aspect to it. Regionally,

538
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:42,039
America differs in terms of the culture bearing and native element.

539
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:52,679
But you know, a major aspect of the founding mythology,

540
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:59,800
according to the Hamiltonian faction, was that Americans are Anglo Saxon,

541
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:05,199
We're Germanic people, and we're casting off this sort of

542
00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:09,840
alien tyranny of of of the Roman Church and of

543
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:17,079
this Latin overcast that ruled us in Britain. I mean,

544
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:25,519
part of that was ideological myth making, but I mean

545
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:30,440
that's that's not incorrect either. You know, you add in

546
00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:41,440
the uh, the Celtic aspects and the fact of Ulster

547
00:55:41,519 --> 00:55:51,119
blood that changes things too. And the descendants of the

548
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:57,800
cavaliers in substantial measure constituted the aristocracy of the South,

549
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:04,199
and they obviously were descended from Normans, so it's complicated.

550
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:10,119
Speaker 2: But you know there's.

551
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:18,599
Speaker 3: This Germanic blood intermingled with you know, the Ulcer Scotts

552
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,000
as well. You know they they we are in part,

553
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:25,599
you know, the bastard offspring of Vikings, So.

554
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 2: You can't.

555
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 3: That's what I make the point a lot too, that

556
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:41,679
the kind of Calvinist diaspra of uh, you know, America, Ulster,

557
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:50,199
South Africa, Australia, New Zealand that represents the unique heritage

558
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:56,360
that's not just some mirror of you know, the United

559
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,400
Kingdom or something. I mean obviously, but that's a bit

560
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:03,440
outside this goal. I'm gonna stop there as I fear

561
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,360
that I'm rambling a bit. I'll wrap this up next

562
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,800
episode and get more in a sort of the concrete

563
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:15,480
military aspects of the conflict and things. I hope that

564
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:18,719
this was useful and interesting to the subs.

565
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: I think it will be. I took I took some notes. Awesome,

566
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,360
all right, head on over to Thomas's substack. It's real

567
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,039
Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com and you

568
00:57:33,079 --> 00:57:35,119
can connect to him from there. You can go to

569
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:38,239
Thomas seven seven seven dot com. The t is A

570
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,639
seven and yeah, I think he posts links. Everything is

571
00:57:42,719 --> 00:57:48,239
linked there, I believe. Yeah, I mean, so, go support Thomas.

572
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:52,880
Do that on substack or whichever way he has linked

573
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,280
on his website. And thank you Thomas. I look forward

574
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:57,280
to the next episode.

575
00:57:57,679 --> 00:58:06,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, My friend s