Hello, everyone, Welcome back to a new episode of The Poker Go Podcast. My name is Donny Peters. Special guest David O. dB Baker. I was gonna say, you know, I kind of rehearsed and open, and I was gonna say the one and only, and then I said, well, actually he's not actually the one and only. We had to put odb in there because there is another David Baker who I never see, So it doesn't even matter as far as you're concerned. You're the one and only. Yeah, I think I can drop the O now. I haven't seen him the sole World series. Yeah he didn't get drafted, right. Yeah, he didn't get drafted, And yeah, I haven't seen him. But hopefully he's okay. I think he's probably okay. He's probably he's probably on a beach somewhere for all we know. Really no agenda here today. David and I will talk about whatever. You know, we're good friends. You're I will say that I'm not sure anyone loves it more than you that the World series. Yeah, I heard you say today that you thought there might be a new contender for who loves it more? And I was a little offended, but I think you're talking about your new boy, NICKI Palmo. Yeah, but then I you know what, you know what happened today. I was walking through the ten k studfield, which you just finished up, and I saw you with your little lunch bag, and I said, you know what I like a guy who brings the lunch pale to work. That's what I like, because I often bring mine to work. I was like, so, yeah, you're back at the top. All shout out to Nicole Baker, my wife, who prepares wonderful, healthy meals every day for me. It's so hard here, like I mean, even if you, even if I don't want to get help, it's just so hard to get food on breaks. We don't have dinner breaks on all of them, and on the tournaments that do have dinner breaks, it's always like a rush because like it's big field and hard to get in places, and it's just a pain in the bud. So are you a dinner break or no dinner break? Guy? I mean, I prefer no dinner break, especially here at the World Series, because you know, my wife prepares nice for me, So I'm with you. I prefer dinner yeah, I mean, I just I just want to play poker. Man, I just want to play poker and then I want to go home. So yeah, well we are a week and half into the series. Now what's your overall impression of the summer. That's a very open question, so answered however you want. Well, I mean, I'll say it kind of like crept up on us. I think we say that every year, But I mean, like I usually have like all this like excitement leading up to it, and then all of a sudden it was here. And like you you stated on the first couple of podcasts, it did kind of feel a little slow at first. But now that the fantasy points are rolling in and we're giving away some bracelets and you know, I've made a couple, you know, decent runs, and I've watched some friends go deep and stuff, so it kind of feels like we're here now. So yeah, I mean I love it. The new stage is obviously fantastic. I got an opportunity to play there, and we can talk about that that hell youth match that I got to play on on on stage that was kind of cool, but. With a fold that you said was going to haunt you. Yeah, yeah, I mean we can you want to talk about. That Yeah, sure you got you got bluffed. Yeah, well that's the thing. It's kind of it's kind of uh, it's it's kind of even weird that even played that tournament, because I mean, most people know me for being mixed games and then like big Field, No Limit I've started, I've dabbled in in Poco Go studios the last six months and you know, kind of butted ahead with some of the crushers there, so I kind of feel like my No Limit games kind of progressed. And then you know, I got the great invite to play in the Poco Go twenty five K heads up. So you know, I did a little work and practiced and played No Limit and no spoilers, but I kind of wanted to play more. So I was like, you know what, I did all the work, I'm just gonna go and give it a shot and play here. So I did, and I mean I felt good. I mean I loved it. It was actually somebody asked me today what my favorite event here that I look forward to, and I was, you know, trying to go through them all, and then all of a sudden, I was like I was like, I know, I felt like super excited. One day this week, and I couldn't remember what it was, and then I remembered it was the heads Up, and probably that's going to be like my most favorite event coming going forward. I was lucky enough, not lucky enough. I actually beat him. I beat Sergio Io, which is, you know, obviously like a super crusher, and I didn't really yet lucky to do it. I mean, obviously I probably had the better cards, you know, as it worked out, because he's probably beats me more times out of ten than I beat him. But it wasn't like, you know, I got it in better or anything. And then I played helm Youth and I got to play on the stage and that was fun, and you know, they they posted on Twitter. I ran a nice little four bet bluff with seven deuce and that was kind of that. Was fun, but you didn't show it. You know, I was going to show it, but then I was like, I'm just gonna steal from them all day, so I really don't want to. I really don't want to show it. Uh yeah, I thought about it, but I was like, you know, I think I can get more equity by just but yeah, and then you know, the big fold, I folded top pair and an okay kicker in a spot that it's never supposed. To be good. I mean I had ten people come up to me who are better than me, and they all said, you played that hand fine, like that's a that's a fold versus him every time. You know, if it would have been Alex Foxen or Cal Anderson or somebody like that, I would have called because I would have thought they had more just bluffs in the range. I just thought I just thought Phil would never bluff it off, and he didn't. He had top pair as well, but it was a worst kicker, and I think he just kind of was like, I don't want to make any more decisions this hand and just kind of put it in. I mean, it's it's hard when a player you you probably know pretty well in terms of how they play. I mean, I think we all know Phil's style very well, and then he kind of just goes off the reservation. You know, it was weird. I sat there for two and a half minute. I never used time banks. I mean, you've you've watched me in the studio. I mean, I give my time banks back at the end. Uh, you know, I never I never used one, and I didn't use one in two matches here, and then I used four in that one hand in that one spot. So I don't know. I mean I should have probably given more credence to the fact that he had just doubled me up and he was tilted. I forget that. Like Phil just goes on random tilt and and does things. And yah zooms just yeah, just zoom zooms. And you know, I don't know, it is what it is. But the experience was awesome. So you know, back on like the summer thing, you know, being up there on the stage, it kind of like felt real, and you know, seeing some of these prize pools, now million dollars prize pool for the ten the ten kgg and and Nolan Meduce was up and it's like there were everything's kind of been up except for some of the big field no limits. I know you've had a big discussion, you know, over the days about the field numbers, and I think I think some of the perspective is a little lost on the field numbers, because what's happening is a there's three events a day where there used to only be two, and then every like other day or every two days there would be a third event, so I think that. And then also people are just getting trapped in some of these events that like they have multi flights. So you know when you played the Mystery Millions and you bagged, you couldn't play things for days, and then you know, same thing with this Monster Stack. They're just basically trapping people in events, which is giving them kind of days off in between. So it's kind of even made it a little bit harder for me to play some of those things, Like I'd love to play the Monster but I just I just don't want to play like day one A and then you know, I get trapped and I bag, you know, fourteen lines and it's a fast structure. You know, you just kind of got to come back like four days later, and you know, there's all these events that I want to play. So that's kind of been my conundrum with some of these. But I mean, you're also somebody who you know, you're not going to leave the divacop like you're basically locked inside these walls, and that's by your choice. When did that start for you? Like what when or was that always in your career? So you know, I fell in love with the World series, and you know It's weird because I know I shouldn't have this, and my wife tells me all the time I don't have it, and other people do. But I have this complex that like I want to be considered one of the lead players, and she's just like, well, you are, you are. I'm like, no, I don't. People don't think about me the way that they think about those some of the other guys, and rightfully so they're better, they're more accomplished, but it's like I want to fit into that. I want to be in. I want to be in the discussion when you know, Hall of Fame comes up and legacy and those kind of things. Even though I'm not now, I know that, Like, you know, I have four bracelets, and I have a WPT title, a real WPT title, not one of these you know, little ones that are one hundred and fifty K. I want to you know, I want LABC when it was a real one. I have four real bracelets, you know, not the online in Delaware. No offense to the Delaware winners, but you know, but I don't think that I ever really get discussed in that elite category. And it's a chip on my shoulder that I want to be considered that So if I go and and I love playing at the win, but if I go, when I win the fifteen hundred at the win, that doesn't do anything. It does not do anything for my legacy. And even though it's stupid, like it should just all be about the money. I guess that's why I'm number one in the heart rankings because I love it, you know, and I want to be considered, you know, in that top echelon. So I know I need I know I need to get the five, six, seven, eight bracelets. So the only way for me to do it is to be here. I'm not I'm not like so focused on that that I'm going to forego some of these bigger field, no limit things, you know. Like I started today playing in the Big O, which is a much harder bracelet to win than the ten case Stud. But I started in it because, you know, I knew that the field was going to be weaker. I knew that there was going to be a lot of money up top and whatnot. You know, I busted pretty quick and I wasn't really feeling it, so I didn't re enter and I came and played the stud. But I'm not foregoing some of those things, you know, only searching for you know, nothing but the bracelet being the most important. But it still is, like, I mean, the bracelet is is what matters. I mean, I would much rather win one hundred and fifty k fifteen hundred RAS than when two hundred K for finishing eighteen eighth and something else, Like I know that's stupid, but you know, I don't know. That's just for me. It's just all about accomplishing goals and winning bracelets and getting my name, you know, talked about when you know, when things come up that's important to me. And you know, my kids are grown, you know, my wife and I live you know, happily and comfortably. That's kind of like that's what drives me. So, I mean, I I would agree that you're not in that conversation. I don't agree that you shouldn't be in that conversation. I think you should be, you know, I like I always think, like you're always on my list for fantasy and that sort of stuff, just because I think so much should be said. There's a lot of weight that should be on people who just show up and compete to the best of their ability every single day. You know, like I feel like you're somebody who's you're probably always playing your a game or at least as close to it as you can on a consistent basis. Where I see a lot of other people, they go up and down by the day, you know, and that's very hard to do. Now that said, I also understand the other side of it, where you're at where you have that drive to like want to be the best, which I think is ultimately I mean, I know what your wife is saying, yes, but also like I think it's the best players need that drive, yeah, like you have to push yourself. Look, I mean when when faced with the decision this year, you know, I own a twenty five K fantasy team and I'm the you know, wive partners, but I'm the lead voice. And Scott sever was one of my main targets this year because he has that that as well, like that he wants to be, you know, always considered, you know, the best, and I knew that coming off of a down year he would take it personally that people forgot about him and they didn't consider him as you know, a slam dunk with Sean deeb like in the hundreds in the Grano and so I like targeted that and I have that same drive. You know, Scott's a better player than I am. He's more accomplished than I am, but we we vibe on the fact that we have that same drive to prove people wrong consistently or prove them right. Like I'm sure he had it last year as well, like he wanted to prove that he wasn't a one hit wonder with the not that he's a one hit wonder, but a one hit wonder as Player of the Year, like that he wanted to go out and do it again. But I think he's kind of one of like me, Like we strive on the negative more than the positive. I don't know that to be fact. I might be putting words in his mouth, but when people tell me like how good I am, or like elite, or like when I had like my best years, I followed him up sometimes with some of my worst years. But when I've done poorly, I've always followed those up with successful years because just the drive to prove people wrong that didn't believe in me through the whole thing, which is stupid. And I know that it's fabricated. And but I don't think it's stupid at all. Yeah, I mean I feel the same way. Like I played sports my whole life. I always felt that way. I mean, I feel that way like in my own poker now, Like and it's not on the level that you're up there trying to achieve, but like I basically want to win a poker tournament just to fucking prove people that I can actually do the fucking thing, like, you know, especially when like I'm trying, I'm supposed to be sitting in a commentary booth like talking about hands and stuff like that, and people. Might be like, well, who the hell is this guy? What is he? I'm like, can I just win a damn tournament? Like, not like I'm not talking about like, you know, the south Point Nightly shout out to the south Point Nightly, but I'm talking like a meaningful tournament. Can I actually do something? You know? So I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way sitting here, Like I want to put out the best podcast and the best content and have the best content team and like do the best stuff like I And it's always going to drive you, you know, and it eats at you. I get it. So I definitely feel what you go through. And the best people in any industry, it's not just poker. They have to have that drive. You just have to. Yeah. And and you know it's funny because, uh, you know, I'm bringing up Seaver a lot just because he's on my mind because I drafted him and we've been talking a good bit the last couple of weeks. But he said, as soon as your draft room were like welcome team, He's like, people have the memory of a goldfish, and uh, and that's kind of that's kind of it. It's like, what have you done for me lately? And it's it's like it was weird because you know, I want to brace it last year and so it's like come into this year and it's like you would think like that's but then I you know, I went to Poco goa studio and I had a couple of seconds and I was like, Okay, I can I can do this. And then I did two series and I didn't didn't do much, and then all of a sudden, I think, well, everybody must think I suck because I didn't do anything. And it's so stupid. It's like a ten or fifteen tournament sample size. But it's just like, if I'm not constantly proving that I can do it, I feel like people doubt me. And it's so dumb sometime. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I keep saying it's dumb, but I mean, I know, the reality is that these things nobody just continues to win constantly. You know, it's a poke. Their poker tournaments, and they're high variants and there's a lot of really good players and there's a lot of luck involved as well. So even if you're the most skilled, which I'm not, you aren't going to win everything. So I don't know, it's it's what drives me, and so that's what I need, and so I'm just gonna harness that. It's you know, I just always harness that as my motivation. And look, whatever you need out there, you know, if your feet on the negg, if you feed on the positive, if you feed on like whatever it is, whatever your motivation is, you just got to find it. Are you someone who you know while you're playing, Like, is it to the point where like you think about it while you're playing, or is it more like I think about it off the table when I'm at the table, I just focus in on the task at hand. No, I mean I think I'm pretty focused at the table on kind of what I'm doing and what's going on. But I don't know, it's just what gets me to come in every day. Like I woke up today, I mean I was tired. I woke up at like six o'clock this morning, and I was, you know, it's hard to go back to sleep, and I found a way to like sleep another hour or so, and it was just kind of like I kind of was like, man, I would be nice to take a day off, and then I'm like, I'm not taking I'm not taking a day off. This is the world. Serious. I feel like, well, why don't you just Yeah, she was like, well, why don't you just hang around a little while. So I hung around nextra hour and I skipped the monster stack and just played Big O' andstud But uh, like that's taking a break from me. I came in. I came in at uh, you know, at one instead of at eleven. So that's that's like me giving myself a break. I like, I like that side of the world series. You know, I've always thought that endurance is part of this giant thing, like you have to be able to well play long days, but then also play those days over and over and over again hopefully you know, hopefully you're you're going deep over and over and over again, and you have to have really thick skin and you're gonna get punched in the face a lot out there. I mean, it's tournament poker, that's just the nature of the beast. But just constantly getting up and being like, well, I gotta go back. I got to The people that I love and admire the most in this business are the people who, regardless of the results, I know they're going to be here for forty five days. Yeah, And you know, it's it's funny. You've did it. You've done it. You did the twenty five k draft for years, and you talk to all these people, and I get people who text me and they want to be part of the team, and they want to be drafted and they want all this stuff. And it's like everybody's got a schedule until they go, oh, for twelve and they're now in seventy thousand. You know, everybody plans to show up every day and put in the two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand or four hundred thousand, but prove it to me for five five years that you're actually going to do it, because it's scary. You know, you draft somebody and you know, we make all these side bets and we invest all this money, and then next thing, you know, like they're they're oh for eight and they're down you know, forty eight thousand, and they're like, uh, well, I'm going to play golf and it's like I'm out, Like I can't take it. So being emotionally strong is those are the people that I love that you can just count on. You just know they're going to be here. Yeah, I mean speaking of fantasy ODB fantasy Now before we get into like the numbers and the growth that it had, I got to ask you because it's kind of along these same lines. You know, not only are you showing up at least for the first week or so doing the whole poker thing, going through that gauntlet, you're then trying to wrangle this league together. I mean I like that, so that on top of trying to play the best poker that you can play, hopefully winn another bracelet go deep final tables, whatever, you're like, I got to collect five hundred ars from everyone, like I gotta keep this list, I gotta do this, that and the other thing. So I mean, how are you doing all of that at once? Yeah, I mean when I started this thing, I obviously never envisioned this, but as it's become such a part of the World Series, you know, I feel on obligation to continue it. And yeah, it's way more work. I mean, Nicole and I joke all the time that, you know, the World Series doesn't really start for me till like mid June. I mean, I'm always over twelve. And this year somehow, I've you know, the very first event I cashed in and had an opportunity, and I've had you know, multiple cashes and deep ish runs and it's very rare for me because it's very hard for me to focus on both. But I don't know, I mean I love it, and everybody loves it. I mean, getting the thank yous for doing it, like repeatedly, like that keeps me going. It's kind of and I told you this last year and another interview we did, but it's kind of my give back a little bit to the community, like they love it and I love it, and look it's not easy, and there's a lot of like, you know, it's just it's annoying. I mean, I mean I feel like every day I wake up, there's a new post on social media, like, hey, does anyone know these people? Yeah? Well, I mean the worst thing is just like people who can't read simple instructions. It's like I took the time to write out a one page thing to tell you exactly what to do, and they just ask me the thing that's like clearly right there. I mean I can't imagine. I mean, keV Math does this for you know, three hundred and sixty five days a year. It's like he'll post the structure sheet and they'll be like, well, what times it start, and it's like, yeah, it's right there, I just posted it. But yeah, I mean I I love the fantasy aspect of it. And you know, those who haven't heard the story before, just a quick how I started this thing eleven years ago. Ray Henson and I used. To drive from years. I didn't know it was that long. Yeah, this is this is eleventh year. Ray Henson and I used to drive from Houston to Vegas every year and we would runt a house together and so we would drive twenty four hours and we would always drive in the day that they were doing the draft, and we would listen to the live coverage and always hoping that we would be drafted and how much and all that. And we were driving one year and I was it was eleven years ago, and I said, I was like, man, these people are terrible at this. I mean, I was like, they're so bad. It's like we got started in there too, because we were like, everyone sucks at this thing? What are they doing? And so I just posted a Twitter thing. I was like, let's anybody want to make a team. And I was just expecting to do like a couple of side bets, and then like I just got multiple people that were like, yeah, let I'll do it versu you so, and then all of a sudden, you know, I get all these things. I'm like, well, let's just let's just all do it together instead of me doing one on one, you know, betts versus you because you and so I asked Nicole, I was like, can we do this? And she was like yeah, and she built an Excel spreadsheet and she she manually put in We got ninety four entries the first year. It was like literally an idea that I had in twenty four hours later, we had ninety four entries. I had built like a new email account to take the emails and the whole thing, and she manually scored it in an Excel spreadsheet for ninety four people. And then it's it's built up through the years. And last year we had eight hundred and seventy people and this year twelve hundred entries. So yeahah, so from ninety four to twelve oh one, over that eleven year span is like almost thirteen x. You just mentioned eight to seventy last year, twelve o one this year, that's about a fifty percent increase. I mean, it's just it's it. The growth is wild. Yeah, yeah, the growth is the growth is crazy. I mean, and I think you know, we had what's at like three hundred and twenty five or whatever new entries this year, but we had like one hundred and sixty new people. So it's not like it's just some people are entering more or whatnot. It's like we're actually getting new people. And I'm you know Stan who does the website, if I mean, he's just absolutely amazing, and hit started with him with the labor of love too. He he is, he lives in Pennsylvania, he's got a real job, and he was just a fanboy of poker and he asked Daniel if he could do sit and he did, and then he contacted me for like year. I think we did year one and two and three I think on Excel spreadsheets and then he had contact. He's like, I think I can build you out something, and so we started building in every He's just constantly trying to improve it and it's amazing what he has built. So I love working with him. He's just a great guy and very talented. So yeah, I'm next year there'll just be more improvements. And you know, I've got some ideas next year to make it a little bit easier for myself. Hopefully they work out. But yeah, does it surprise you that that Fantasy Pokra has gotten so big? No, not really, because it's I mean, I don't know people. Yeah, I mean, we're we're dealing with a bunch of gamblers, and we're dealing with people who have I think they're smarter than everybody else. And we were also, you know, we we kind of grew up the people who are playing this Now we grew up with when DraftKings was like, uh, you know, it's still big, but like in Nevada, obviously it's not legal. It's a little harder to play, gotta go across the border, YadA, YadA, YadA. But you know, we grew up in kind of a fantasy DFS. I mean Draft Kings now is I mean it's known for sports betting, like, well, there's probably a lot of people that there it is. Again, there's probably a lot of people on DraftKings right now who participate on the platform that might not even have any idea what DFS is, and like grinding out the DFS like that's what DraftKings was. I mean, now it's this huge sports betting platform. Yes, I mean they're even getting into prediction markets and that whole thing too, But it was only DFS back in the day. Yeah, I mean I remember when we had the DraftKings lounge and stuff, and you know, I still love DraftKings and you know, I do underdog drafts and DraftKings drafts and I do Draft Kings dfs you know, when it's football season and stuff. So it's all about just kind of trying to show that you can both use your opinions plus some game theory, and it's just fun. I mean, it's not surprising me because it's fun. Like you know, obviously I did it because I love it and enjoy it. And I think I'm around like minded people. I mean, I think this whole industry we're all kind of like minded and the things that we like to do. Do you play your own fans. Yeah, I do. I don't. I only put in a few teams because I'm I'm so busy at the time. From the minute that the twenty five K draft is over, I'm like trying to go through the bonus players, see who didn't get drafted, who I can add. People are texting me trying to add people are paying, So I don't really have time to actually kind of put it down. But I always throw in a few teams. And I used to. I used to just use my name on the title, but I would always have people like, oh, you didn't pick me, huh. It's just like so now I just make up make up names. That's such a funny aspect of this fantasy league, the fantasy poker leagues, both the twenty five K and your league. It's like because people even tell me like, oh, you didn't draft me this year. I like, I DMed you my schedule. I'm like, okay, I can only pick eight people. Man, Like, what do you want me to do? Right? Maybe I tried to bid on you and somebody outbid me, which happened a couple of times, and then I'm like, listen, I tried, Okay, I didn't have enough money. What do you want me to do? I mean a funny story. I mean, I don't know film. But so Jason Daly is he a good friend of Ray Henson's and for the last two years he's told it and we've been like, yeah, you know, you're on a let and he's always been like the bubble boy that like, if if one person got bid on that we had just above him, we would have had Jason. But we never ended up with him. This year, I told him we're drafting you. I told Ray. I was like, tell him, we're going to draft him. And then, because then nobody knows him, I'm just going to keep him to the end. And then Jeremy Becker throws him out like halfway through the auction, and then I'm bidding two, three, four, and but my philosophy on the draft is just you know, I've got all these guys that are kind of that I like a lot that are I expect to get at the end, but I don't want to. I don't want to pay for them early because I want to leave the flexibility when there's somebody that is you know, good value or you know, I can use those dollars to bid up like some of the good teams that I know like are willing to pay more and things like that. So I just let him go even though I wanted him this year. And then he wins a bracelet and like his first amend. So it's kind of like, well, you know, but it's funny because he's like every year he's he's like, oh, you didn't draft me again, and I think he's just the second year he want a bracelet, and so yeah, it's it is funny how people do kind of take it personally when when they don't when they don't get bought by you. But look like we're only we like you said, we can only do eight and you know I have three hundred schedules in my DM, so it's like, I mean, I'm sorry, Like you know, I'd love to have you all. I thought the twenty five K fancy draft this year was like the softest it's ever been. I I I part of my lack of motivation to do it this year is that I thought last year was very tough. I thought a lot of people were prepared, a lot of people had the same guys that we had pegged, so I was like, well, okay, whatever, and then I just never felt the motivation that said this year, I was like, what the hell are people doing? Yeah? I thought there were some really poor drafters in the room. But I think a lot of it is the product of we've gotten new people in that they might not have all the contacts and so they're basically just using the raw data from past years to formulate the prices, or they're just taking their no limit you know, friends or whatever, and you've got to just kind of I mean, I do have a little advantage that I kind of know like all the mixed game community, and I know the no limit guys. Now that I'm playing in the studio, you know, I started to meet some of those guys, and like, this year, my target, my my plan was to make sure that I got a couple studio guys, and I got David Coleman, who you know, no offense to anybody else. No, he didn't Stone Bubble, No really yeah, oh shit. See that's the thing they don't even is that real breaking news? Yeah? You want to know. The hand too is a funny one. He opens the button. Jesse lonis who's a big Chip leader. Three bets from the Big Blind. David has King nine suited, David four bets like all but like five k left. Jesse just has aces. No. I didn't know I because you know, once they started doing the feature tables, they don't put on the Uh. Yeah, that's got a change, by the way. That's I sent the messages today to people too, because there's like forty fifty people in the app that just say featured player, feature player. I'm like, can we like at least with their names, Yeah, just so I know they're still in the tournament when if they bust out? Like fine? Like what right? I was Actually I was excited to go home and watch the coverage and see Coleman on there. Now are you are you someone? Who do you do you consume the coverage? Like well, I mean obviously it's probably hard for you while you're. Playing hard while I'm playing. I watched I watched the heads Up. I watched some of the heads Up because well because I was on it. But it's all also just you know, I kind of wanted to see some of it. I I really haven't had the time because I'm I'm playing every day. But if there's if there's people that I want to watch, I will, you know, and I like everything that they're doing here. It's just it's hard to watch while I'm at the table. But if there's something like super interesting, I'm not going to watch like the random tables just because I'm you know, I don't want it to take away too much from my playing. But you know, if I'm sitting in the monster stack tomorrow, like I'll put the coverage on, but you know, i'm playing ten K stud I'm not going to watch the coverage. Yeah, back to fantasy real quickly. Is there is there anything that you might have learned from running the ODB League that maybe you you know, it's kind of like a little side benefit or something to be like, oh, like that's kind of cool that I get to do this or whatever, like maybe something that you didn't a preciate when you first started. Then now you do appreciate. I really do, just like appreciate the people more, but not from uh, I haven't learned anything that's helped me in the twenty five K thing or or any of that, which I probably should, Like you really should just look at the ownerships and the ODB League and kind of get a sense at who people think are good players. You know, like Pads is continuously one of the most owned players. So that just means that the other players who are playing obviously respect him. Obviously. It also comes to the fact that he always says I'm not playing and he shows up every fucking day. But and I love Pads. Pads is one of my one of the people that have become the closest to me over the last two years. I love Pads. We're talking about Patrick Leonard, and you know, he's someone who I think he obviously posts a lot on social media, right and if for you guys out there, and I've said this before, so this isn't anything new for many of you, but you can glean a lot of really good tips and insight, like he might not be always diving into the details of a hand history, which he does at times, yes, but there's other things, like, you know, I talked about you being one of those people who shows up every day and just consistently playing as close to the top of your game. Like that's a big Pads thing, Like just always showing up and playing the best you can play when everyone else is going up and down, everyone's gonna have a bad day there. You know, people are just gonna fire it in and just do whatever. Like they might be on tilt, they might be tired, they might be over because they're over eighteen, you know, like all that sort of stuff. But if you can just keep showing up even if your game isn't as good as everyone else is, But if you're consistently playing that the best you can, you're probably gonna have a decent amount of success because everyone else is gonna go all over the place. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Also, like you'll hear a lot of the high limit players and you know a lot of times they get asked like, well, why are you guys playing this game? It's like who's the fish, and it's like, well, it depends on the day, yeah, you know, And the thing that makes the great players the best is their ability to like, if I could just have my B game every single day, I take it. But the thing is, like, we're all human. We have our A games, we have our B games, we have our C games, we have our D games. So trying to play your D game as little as possible, or at least in spots where you can kind of get away with it because you're playing against lesser competition or whatever, that's kind of key. And and you know, I try to do that. I'm not I'm definitely not perfect in that I've played some horrific hands over the years and everyone has, yeah, and I mean, I'm sure I've played multiple This year, I feel like I feel like this series, I really have played pretty damn good. So I'm I'm I'm hopeful that the rest of the series kind of goes well because I have felt like I've played pretty pretty good so far. So you know, I'm excited. I can't say that every year I've started out feeling that way, especially like you said, you know, I'm so distracted the first week, week and a half. I definitely don't think that that that I have at times, but kind of making a little run in the first event, and then you know, I got an early final table just like a week ago and or I don't even know what is three four days ago and no limit douce. I think that kind of has kind of showed me, you know, just keep playing well and you're gonna, you know, you're gonna give yourself opportunities. So I mean that's at the end of the day, that's all we can do is try to put ourselves in position as much as possible. And you know, I've said this before, but it's it's like all every opportunity that I've had that I've missed, I've tried to like get something out of and you know, hopefully get in a better position the next time that I'm in that and I can kind of look back. I was having this discussion with somebody the other day and they were, you know, why do you play the studio events like they're not good? Like there's no eve either, And it's you know what, if I'm break even ev in the studio or even small loser, that is more learning than you can do, then you can pay for in any course. Because now I'm playing against David Coleman, I'm playing against Shannon Shure, I'm playing against you know, Jesse Lonis, I'm playing against these people, so when I get in these spots in these tournaments, I'm not foreign to it. Also, in the studio, you're playing against you know, there's less tables, so you get to the final three tables, you get to the final two tables, you get to the final table more often. So I've been in these positions where I've seen the ICM implications and I also change. You know, in the studio generally speaking, most of the tournaments start fairly shallow. So like you're in there and like hand one, it's meaningful poker. You're like, let's go. You know, this isn't like I got five hundred big blinds. Let's just sit around for three hours. Maybe somebody will punt to me. Whatever. No, You're in there and you're like, you gotta go. Yeah, I mean I can. I can think of other times in my career that maybe I haven't capitalized on spots that maybe if I had, you know, taken a slightly negative ev spot by by putting myself in some of these tournaments that are a little tougher, that maybe I would have been more prepared for and that pays for all the you know, if you're playing like a five thousand dollars tournament at the Poker Co Studio. You know, a player like myself that even if I'm even if I'm not a big winning player there, like what am what's it costing me like three hundred bucks to play when I got forty seven hundred TV instead of fifty one hundred or whatever. It's like, I'm not You're not losing every time. So even if I'm losing small, I'm gaining the experience and the knowledge that when I get in this situation and I get down to three tables here at the World Series, like last year, you know, I was in the seniors and and I obviously you know, I won that, And it's like the three tables in I was able to do things that I might not have done had I not been able to play with some of those players, you know, over the past year two years. So it's like now that I'm getting more experience playing against those type of players, when I when I get in these opportunities again, which I know I'm going to, I'll be able to harken back to. And also, you know, I watch what's Brock Wilson doing, Like like, how is he having so much? Like I'm watching the things that he's doing and I'm like, why did he do that? And I'm I'm really good at reverse engineering hands. A lot of people learn, you know, from front to back. I kind of learned back to front. You know. People want to be totally studied and they want to learn, and then they want to go in and they want to implement that. What I do. My approach to poker is more like I watch good players play and I see the things that they do, and I try to figure out why did they do that? And Okay, what would I how do I combat that? And also how do I bring that into my own game? And so when I get in these spots, I think back, oh, well, Shannon Shore did this, I liked the way that he did that, or I didn't understand the way that he did that. Let me think about why he did that, and I will revert. And it always ends up with me kind of studying because he studies so much, and he's playing you know, close to I'm not gonna say perfect, but like he's playing closer to optimal. So if he does it, let me figure out why. And so that's kind of been my approach to poker, and that's kind of why I really like playing with, you know, some of these best players, some of the best players. I mean, there's also a lot to be said just about putting yourselves in spots. And this isn't just poker, this is really any avenue of life, putting your spots, putting yourself in spots that are out of your comfort zone, that are more challenging, like, because that's going to bring growth, right, And you have to do a lot of that sort of stuff, right. So, yeah, maybe you're not. A winning player if you're in there every single day, But to take a couple of shots here and there, I think is fine. And I think a lot of poker players out there should take shots. Now. Maybe don't take shots where your risk of ruin is through the roof, I get it, But you know, you can take a shot here and there. I've played in the studio too, you know, and I wanted to take a shot just to like get out there and like listen again, going back to what I said at the beginning, like I'm in the commentary with a lot of times talking about these players, I need to at least get out there and experience that you know, even if I lose, it doesn't it doesn't matter. Just getting your feet wet a little bit, like you just have to try. And it's not only in poker, it's like life. You know. I wanted to do more what are you called? Like you know, podcasts and and just more media stuff. So you know, I started doing some things on you know, I got invited to do a visting spot. I wasn't comfortable the first time, but I did it and then I got a little better, and then you know, I've I've I've taped some podcasts with you know, Jason McIntyre and I've you know who saw it with Fox Sports, and I've and I started my own podcast, Gamble Up. Hopefully we'll get some episodes back soon. But just kind of like putting myself out there in uncomfortable spots so that I can get better, and people ask like, well, what's your in game with that, and it's like, I don't know. All I know is that it's something that I enjoy doing. And look, I'm not going to get hired by Fox to do a podcast today, but you know, if I get my reps and I learn how to do it and I and I get better at it, and I put myself out there and I make you know, I make some bad podcasts. That's fine because I'm learning as I do it, and so hopefully then when I do get that opportunity to maybe you know, be on a bigger stage and have bigger opportunities, I'll be more verse than able to do it. And you know, I'm sure you probably feel that way too. That's why I mean, you guys started grid Iron Gamble, and I mean. I was, I was completely a fish out of water when I first started doing podcasts, when I first did commentary, when I first did any sort of video thing. And now it's just natural to me, right, But you have to build up those reps. I mean, maybe there are some unicorns out there that they just turn on the camera and they turn on the mic and they just go and whatever. Yeah, right, just exactly, Yeah, you just started. And like there's a lot of learning with it, and you just you have to go through those reps. You have to do it. It's just how it is, and you're not gonna learn without doing it. You're just you're just not so And it's the same thing, like I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who they had that same sort of feeling. I mean, I had that same sort of feeling when I first went to play. Poker into casino. It's like, oh shit, I gotta go like playing a casino, Like, am I gonna like do I know how to like handle my chips? And I gotta slip over my cards like you know, But eventually it's just it's just second nature, you know. So yeah, So basically, I think what David and I are saying is like, always take the uncomfortable thing. And now in my professional life and also in my regular life too, you know, I try and kind of always say yes to stuff. My wife is really good at this. She's always like, we need to go here, we need to hang out with this people, and I'm just my initial reaction is like I don't want to do any of that. I don't want to talk to people. I just want to be you know, the family guy at home whatever. But she forces me to do that. She takes me out of my comfort zone, which is why I think we work so well together. And and that sort of stuff leads to a lot of growth in all areas of life. So I mean, and also in poker, I think it's important to get out of your comfort zone. So something that I've done recently is about six eight months ago, I decided that I wanted to start playing more Nola m cash. So I started playing in MJ's game at the area, and I just started putting myself in uncomfortable situations at the table and knowing that I'm some of these things are probably losing place, but I wanted to see how like I reacted and how people reacted to me doing putting myself in. It's easy to sit there and just fulfold. Oh I have ace king, I'm all in, you know. Like, but when you start playing like these weird hands, you think Keating was like great at playing trash before he started, No, but like he put himself in uncomfortable situations and watching like him and Wass and Hanks and these guys put themselves in uncomfortable situations in games and work their way out. Well, you can watch that all you want, but you're not gonna get good at it until you just start putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. And I don't play tournaments like I play cash, you know, but in tournaments sometimes like when you're deep, you know, and it's a smaller tournament, or it's something that like you just want to practice, Like, go put yourself in some uncomfortable situations, you know, three bets, some weird hands, play hands out of position, play you know, call raises in the blind, Like just experiment because it's gonna pay dividends later on, because you're not going to be able to play ABC as you move up the ladder in poker, So try to put yourself in uncomfortable situations in life, but also at the poker table, because that's gonna get you better in the long run. This isn't a you know, this is a game of constant evolution, and you're constantly you need to be evolving yourself in your game. So the more uncomfortable slots you get in, the more comfortable you'll be in those uncomfortable spots in the future. What's the overall mood at the series this summer from from somebody who's there every single day with all these different players, all these different characters, Like, is there anything that feels different or is it just the same as it's always been. I think it's kind of business as usual. I don't really since anybody being overly like this is way better than last year, this is way worse than last year. All the improvements we like. I don't think it's necessarily transpired into an over the top enthusiasm that amongst the players that you know changes, but we are happy with some of the changes. We are happy. Obviously, we love the app We love how like the lines have been down. The dealers, for the most part, have been better. Obviously, they're those of us who know that you can't just bring on two thousand people and have them be perfect dealers, Like that's just not going to be the case. But for the most part, I feel like they've been better. I think this rating system is good. You know, we love the stage like the fantasy aspect. Just it's crazy. I mean, Daniel and I have talked about this, but because of Daniel's league and my league, it helps the World Series numbers grow. Do you know how many people play events that they wouldn't normally play because they get drafted. I have I have a bunch of people who put themselves on there, who asked me to list them as bonus players so they could draft themselves and they can play more events. You know, people who get drafted. I mean everybody on my team. Like, if you want to play something that you you know you're on the fringe about, you know, let me know. I mean I might help you, Like I might buy a small piece just to get you over the top, to get you in like they're and so that helps drive numbers. People have the pride of being on teams. So I think all all that excitement. Noia just won Bracelet yesterday. He's on our twenty five K team. He drafted himself on four ODB teams. Like one of the things he posted after winning was look my ODB teams in second place. You know, when he came to me and he was he was like so excited that, like his team was doing well. And then it's like, hey, you just want to bracelet four hundred and fifty thousand dollars or something. That's what you should be excited about, not be second in my league. But it's I love that. I love that people like think about that as one of the first things that they think about the serious and and you know, hopefully when I'm long gone from this, maybe somebody will just take it on and keep my name attached to it. I mean I think now it's going for eleven years, it's it's just locked in. Yeah, unfortunately, So I mean someone's gonna have to do it, you know, if you move on. But you know it's always going. To be when I move on, I'll be moving down down down Under because I'm not you know, my Poker's my life. And I've said this before. I'm a lifer. I love this stuff. And you hear some of these people say, O, if I won the main event, you'd never see me again. If I won the main event, you see me at Triton. I mean I'd be like everywhere. Like I mean, I'm not I'm playing poker. I'm playing poker and I'm betting football. Like those two things they're not changing. So those are my two Those are my two passions when it comes to gambling, and those are the two things I'm gonna do. So yeah, you'll see me at the World Series, you know, as long as I can you know, sit up straight and in a chair for eight hours. A question that I've been asking everyone that I try and talk to this summer, what does success look like for you when the summer is all said and done. Yeah, I mean I'd love to say it's winning a bracelet, but it's I'm not gonna call it a failure if if I don't win a bracelet and I do some other things. I don't think there's one thing that necessarily signals success for me. But you know, I could give you the generic, Well, if I play good, I'll be happy and let the cards falut. But that's I mean, that's not me. I mean I need to win. I need to put myself in position to win. I you know, if I don't have at least three or four final tables and legitimate shots at bracelets, you know, it'll be a failure to me. Now, you know, if I win the Monster Stack and then I brick out, you know ten of ents, you know the rest of the series, that will be a success. Obviously you win a million dollars and you know whatever. But you know, the success kind of just varies on which events you do well in. I mean, if I final table fifteen hundred no limit deuce and get eighth and fifteen hundred limit hold them and I get ninth and and you know, twenty five hundred such and such and I get seventh, that's probably a failure. But you know, if I get fifth in the PPC and that's my only one, then it's probably like a success. So, you know, I don't know my you know, I just want to have fun. I want to enjoy myself every day, and I want to, you know, monetarily come out in the positive and and you know, add to my resume of final tables and hopefully bracelets. I think it's very realistic that I went another one. So yeah, I mean that's obviously that is at the forefront. If I win a bracelet, like it can't be a failure, you know, even if I lose money, which is kind of kind of weird to say, but I mean I will I probably won't lose money if I want a bracelet. I don't know. The worst bracelet's like, what one hundred and fifty thousand, So I'm probably gonna play four hundred K. So it'd be hard for me to lose too much money if I if I want a bracelet. When the summer is done, do you does it take a little bit for you to kind of decompress. You have to just kind of chill out and get over the grind that just happened for seven weeks. I'm Bill different, man, I can I can go. I mean I grew up. I grew up back in my day. I grew up. I grew up on the streets of Commerce, California, where we just played NonStop. We're playing NonStop poker. MJ's game runs five days in a week, and I'm there like five days a week. You know, I'll be you know when when July eighteenth or nineteenth or whatever comes, I'll be like, shit, why doesn't the wind just have something here like post limb, Like, I'll be ready to go. But yeah, I mean, yeah, i might take a few days or a week, but I'll be back at the table. I mean, it's a drug. I mean I'm addicted. I'm addicted to poker. I'm addicted to gambling, and uh, you know it's lucky. Then I'm just kind of good at it. So you know, for people who are addicted to things that they're not good at is bad. But yeah, it doesn't take me too long. I'm built different, Like I said, I mean, I just it's nothing really phases me in a regard of wanting to not play, cause if I'm doing well, I want to press it, and if I'm doing bad, I want to I want to prove to myself that I can do it. And if you're breaking evening, it's like, well, I'm just kind of wasting time. So I better like get I get winning or get losing. So there's really no stopping point. Like some people are like, oh, if I win, I'll like take a break. Some people like take a break when they're losing. I just don't take breaks. I think that's all I have for you. Yeah, well, I just want to say thank you for having me, because I, like you say on many of them, I am a loyal fan and I'm a poker fan boy. First, you know. It's it's cool that I get to kind of be a fanboy and at the same time some people fanboy me. Uh, you know, it's kind of weird. Yeah, it's kind of weird. Like you know because at the World Series, you get to play in the ten k study and you get to play with like your legends, and they hear I played in the ten k gig the other day with Phil Ivy and he gets to the table and he looks at me and he double takes. And you know, I've played with Phil a lot. I've played with Phil many times and you always think like they know who you are. But you know, with Phil, you just never really like, I know Phil Helme, you knows my name, I know Daniel mcgreano's. I don't know if Phil Ivy knows who I am. So like he comes he sits, he looks at me, and he double takes and he goes, you lost some weight, Huh. I was like he knows me. I was like, I was like, yes. It was like if I like the fanboy and he comes out, it's like, okay, he knows who I am, Like he remembers that, like we've played together and we've had some good experiences and so so I still get to be the fanboy. But then I also get to go and I get to play you know, the five hundred Mystery Million, and there's three four people there that are like talking to me about things like they're fanboying me, and you know, I like that. I like the fact that I get to be somebody's that they look up to. And so I don't know. That that's probably yeah, And in a way it probably, I guess keeps you in check because because you know that some people can look up to you, so you're not just going to be flying off the handle like some lunatic running around like you know, actually there's people that like might look up to me, so I can't look like a fool. Yeah yeah, So, I mean the whole point I got on this tangent was I'm a fan of the pod. I'm a fan of you and and when Tim was part of it and Remco was part of it, and I've wanted to, you know, come on and just just shoot the ship with you, because you know, we obviously we talk a lot anyway during football season especially and leading up to poker season and stuff, because you know, I love what you and rich And and mow And and Brett do with Great Iron Gamble as well. And I listened to this pod all the time. So it's a pleasure, honestly to get to come on here and talk poker, something that I love with somebody who loves it as much as I do. So yeah, thank you for having me, and thank you for everything that you do for Poker the World series, the studio, the Poker Goro series and everything you know, from the people who don't get a chance to or they're too shy to tell you, or they don't get to just want to tell you that there's a lot of us out there that appreciate the way that you love poker and the things that you do, so as a bastion for them, I just want to tell you thank you and. We appreciate you. I'm just a guy who loves the game. Man. Yeah, that's me too. I just absolutely love it. I know you do. I know you do. We might be following you. At some point throughout the summer, you know, hopefully in the coming days do a little day in the life or something of ODB and then I don't know, hopefully you win a bracelet or two and we just talked to you again. You know that's a dream, right. Yeah, I hope I get to I hope I get to cry on camera again last year. So yeah, I'm here for anything that. You know, if there's anybody else out there that wants to, you know whatever, sponsor me or do anything like I'm here. I'm here. Nobody loves it more on top of the hard rankings people. All right, he's David O. D B. Baker. My name is Donnie Peters, who's a pleasure as always on the pover Girl podcast, and we will talk to you guys, next time.