Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to a new episode of The
Poker Go Podcast. My name is Donny Peters. Special guest
David O. dB Baker. I was gonna say, you know,
I kind of rehearsed and open, and I was gonna
say the one and only, and then I said, well,
actually he's not actually the one and only. We had
to put odb in there because there is another David
Baker who I never see, So it doesn't even matter
as far as you're concerned.
Speaker 2: You're the one and only.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I can drop the O now. I
haven't seen him the sole World series.
Speaker 2: Yeah he didn't get drafted, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't get drafted, And yeah, I haven't seen him.
But hopefully he's okay.
Speaker 1: I think he's probably okay. He's probably he's probably on
a beach somewhere for all we know. Really no agenda
here today. David and I will talk about whatever. You know,
we're good friends. You're I will say that I'm not
sure anyone loves it more than you that the World series.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard you say today that you thought there
might be a new contender for who loves it more?
And I was a little offended, but I think you're
talking about your new boy, NICKI Palmo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then I you know what, you know what
happened today. I was walking through the ten k studfield,
which you just finished up, and I saw you with
your little lunch bag, and I said, you know what
I like a guy who brings the lunch pale to work.
That's what I like, because I often bring mine to work.
I was like, so, yeah, you're back at the top.
Speaker 3: All shout out to Nicole Baker, my wife, who prepares wonderful,
healthy meals every day for me. It's so hard here,
like I mean, even if you, even if I don't
want to get help, it's just so hard to get
food on breaks. We don't have dinner breaks on all
of them, and on the tournaments that do have dinner breaks,
it's always like a rush because like it's big field
and hard to get in places, and it's just a
pain in the bud.
Speaker 2: So are you a dinner break or no dinner break?
Speaker 1: Guy?
Speaker 3: I mean, I prefer no dinner break, especially here at
the World Series, because you know, my wife prepares nice
for me, So I'm with you. I prefer dinner yeah,
I mean, I just I just want to play poker. Man,
I just want to play poker and then I want
to go home.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well we are a week and half into
the series. Now what's your overall impression of the summer.
That's a very open question, so answered however you want.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'll say it kind of like crept
up on us. I think we say that every year,
But I mean, like I usually have like all this
like excitement leading up to it, and then all of
a sudden it was here. And like you you stated
on the first couple of podcasts, it did kind of
feel a little slow at first. But now that the
fantasy points are rolling in and we're giving away some
bracelets and you know, I've made a couple, you know,
decent runs, and I've watched some friends go deep and stuff,
so it kind of feels like we're here now. So yeah,
I mean I love it. The new stage is obviously fantastic.
I got an opportunity to play there, and we can
talk about that that hell youth match that I got
to play on on on stage that was kind of cool, but.
Speaker 2: With a fold that you said was going to haunt you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean we can you want to talk about.
Speaker 2: That Yeah, sure you got you got bluffed. Yeah, well
that's the thing.
Speaker 3: It's kind of it's kind of uh, it's it's kind
of even weird that even played that tournament, because I mean,
most people know me for being mixed games and then
like big Field, No Limit I've started, I've dabbled in
in Poco Go studios the last six months and you know,
kind of butted ahead with some of the crushers there,
so I kind of feel like my No Limit games
kind of progressed. And then you know, I got the
great invite to play in the Poco Go twenty five
K heads up. So you know, I did a little
work and practiced and played No Limit and no spoilers,
but I kind of wanted to play more. So I
was like, you know what, I did all the work,
I'm just gonna go and give it a shot and
play here. So I did, and I mean I felt good.
I mean I loved it. It was actually somebody asked
me today what my favorite event here that I look
forward to, and I was, you know, trying to go
through them all, and then all of a sudden, I
was like I was like, I know, I felt like
super excited. One day this week, and I couldn't remember
what it was, and then I remembered it was the
heads Up, and probably that's going to be like my
most favorite event coming going forward. I was lucky enough,
not lucky enough. I actually beat him. I beat Sergio Io,
which is, you know, obviously like a super crusher, and
I didn't really yet lucky to do it. I mean,
obviously I probably had the better cards, you know, as
it worked out, because he's probably beats me more times
out of ten than I beat him. But it wasn't like,
you know, I got it in better or anything. And
then I played helm Youth and I got to play
on the stage and that was fun, and you know,
they they posted on Twitter. I ran a nice little
four bet bluff with seven deuce and that was kind
of that.
Speaker 2: Was fun, but you didn't show it.
Speaker 3: You know, I was going to show it, but then
I was like, I'm just gonna steal from them all day,
so I really don't want to. I really don't want
to show it. Uh yeah, I thought about it, but
I was like, you know, I think I can get
more equity by just but yeah, and then you know,
the big fold, I folded top pair and an okay
kicker in a spot that it's never supposed.
Speaker 2: To be good.
Speaker 3: I mean I had ten people come up to me
who are better than me, and they all said, you
played that hand fine, like that's a that's a fold
versus him every time. You know, if it would have
been Alex Foxen or Cal Anderson or somebody like that,
I would have called because I would have thought they
had more just bluffs in the range. I just thought
I just thought Phil would never bluff it off, and
he didn't. He had top pair as well, but it
was a worst kicker, and I think he just kind
of was like, I don't want to make any more
decisions this hand and just kind of put it in.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's hard when a player you you
probably know pretty well in terms of how they play.
I mean, I think we all know Phil's style very well,
and then he kind of just goes off the reservation.
Speaker 2: You know, it was weird.
Speaker 3: I sat there for two and a half minute. I
never used time banks. I mean, you've you've watched me
in the studio. I mean, I give my time banks
back at the end. Uh, you know, I never I
never used one, and I didn't use one in two
matches here, and then I used four in that one
hand in that one spot. So I don't know. I
mean I should have probably given more credence to the
fact that he had just doubled me up and he
was tilted. I forget that. Like Phil just goes on
random tilt and and does things.
Speaker 2: And yah zooms just yeah, just zoom zooms.
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know, it is what it is.
But the experience was awesome. So you know, back on
like the summer thing, you know, being up there on
the stage, it kind of like felt real, and you know,
seeing some of these prize pools, now million dollars prize
pool for the ten the ten kgg and and Nolan
Meduce was up and it's like there were everything's kind
of been up except for some of the big field
no limits. I know you've had a big discussion, you know,
over the days about the field numbers, and I think
I think some of the perspective is a little lost
on the field numbers, because what's happening is a there's
three events a day where there used to only be two,
and then every like other day or every two days
there would be a third event, so I think that.
And then also people are just getting trapped in some
of these events that like they have multi flights. So
you know when you played the Mystery Millions and you bagged,
you couldn't play things for days, and then you know,
same thing with this Monster Stack. They're just basically trapping
people in events, which is giving them kind of days
off in between. So it's kind of even made it
a little bit harder for me to play some of
those things, Like I'd love to play the Monster but
I just I just don't want to play like day
one A and then you know, I get trapped and
I bag, you know, fourteen lines and it's a fast structure.
You know, you just kind of got to come back
like four days later, and you know, there's all these
events that I want to play. So that's kind of
been my conundrum with some of these.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you're also somebody who you know, you're
not going to leave the divacop like you're basically locked
inside these walls, and that's by your choice. When did
that start for you? Like what when or was that
always in your career?
Speaker 3: So you know, I fell in love with the World series,
and you know It's weird because I know I shouldn't
have this, and my wife tells me all the time
I don't have it, and other people do. But I
have this complex that like I want to be considered
one of the lead players, and she's just like, well,
you are, you are. I'm like, no, I don't. People
don't think about me the way that they think about
those some of the other guys, and rightfully so they're better,
they're more accomplished, but it's like I want to fit
into that. I want to be in. I want to
be in the discussion when you know, Hall of Fame
comes up and legacy and those kind of things. Even
though I'm not now, I know that, Like, you know,
I have four bracelets, and I have a WPT title,
a real WPT title, not one of these you know,
little ones that are one hundred and fifty K. I
want to you know, I want LABC when it was
a real one. I have four real bracelets, you know,
not the online in Delaware. No offense to the Delaware winners,
but you know, but I don't think that I ever
really get discussed in that elite category. And it's a
chip on my shoulder that I want to be considered
that So if I go and and I love playing
at the win, but if I go, when I win
the fifteen hundred at the win, that doesn't do anything.
It does not do anything for my legacy. And even
though it's stupid, like it should just all be about
the money. I guess that's why I'm number one in
the heart rankings because I love it, you know, and
I want to be considered, you know, in that top echelon.
So I know I need I know I need to
get the five, six, seven, eight bracelets. So the only
way for me to do it is to be here.
I'm not I'm not like so focused on that that
I'm going to forego some of these bigger field, no
limit things, you know. Like I started today playing in
the Big O, which is a much harder bracelet to
win than the ten case Stud. But I started in
it because, you know, I knew that the field was
going to be weaker. I knew that there was going
to be a lot of money up top and whatnot.
You know, I busted pretty quick and I wasn't really
feeling it, so I didn't re enter and I came
and played the stud. But I'm not foregoing some of
those things, you know, only searching for you know, nothing
but the bracelet being the most important. But it still is, like,
I mean, the bracelet is is what matters. I mean,
I would much rather win one hundred and fifty k
fifteen hundred RAS than when two hundred K for finishing
eighteen eighth and something else, Like I know that's stupid,
but you know, I don't know. That's just for me.
It's just all about accomplishing goals and winning bracelets and
getting my name, you know, talked about when you know,
when things come up that's important to me. And you know,
my kids are grown, you know, my wife and I
live you know, happily and comfortably. That's kind of like
that's what drives me.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I I would agree that you're not
in that conversation. I don't agree that you shouldn't be
in that conversation. I think you should be, you know,
I like I always think, like you're always on my
list for fantasy and that sort of stuff, just because
I think so much should be said. There's a lot
of weight that should be on people who just show
up and compete to the best of their ability every
single day. You know, like I feel like you're somebody
who's you're probably always playing your a game or at
least as close to it as you can on a
consistent basis. Where I see a lot of other people,
they go up and down by the day, you know,
and that's very hard to do. Now that said, I
also understand the other side of it, where you're at
where you have that drive to like want to be
the best, which I think is ultimately I mean, I
know what your wife is saying, yes, but also like
I think it's the best players need that drive, yeah,
like you have to push yourself.
Speaker 3: Look, I mean when when faced with the decision this year,
you know, I own a twenty five K fantasy team
and I'm the you know, wive partners, but I'm the
lead voice. And Scott sever was one of my main
targets this year because he has that that as well,
like that he wants to be, you know, always considered,
you know, the best, and I knew that coming off
of a down year he would take it personally that
people forgot about him and they didn't consider him as
you know, a slam dunk with Sean deeb like in
the hundreds in the Grano and so I like targeted
that and I have that same drive. You know, Scott's
a better player than I am. He's more accomplished than
I am, but we we vibe on the fact that
we have that same drive to prove people wrong consistently
or prove them right. Like I'm sure he had it
last year as well, like he wanted to prove that
he wasn't a one hit wonder with the not that
he's a one hit wonder, but a one hit wonder
as Player of the Year, like that he wanted to
go out and do it again. But I think he's
kind of one of like me, Like we strive on
the negative more than the positive. I don't know that
to be fact. I might be putting words in his mouth,
but when people tell me like how good I am,
or like elite, or like when I had like my
best years, I followed him up sometimes with some of
my worst years. But when I've done poorly, I've always
followed those up with successful years because just the drive
to prove people wrong that didn't believe in me through
the whole thing, which is stupid. And I know that
it's fabricated.
Speaker 1: And but I don't think it's stupid at all. Yeah,
I mean I feel the same way. Like I played
sports my whole life. I always felt that way. I mean,
I feel that way like in my own poker now,
Like and it's not on the level that you're up
there trying to achieve, but like I basically want to
win a poker tournament just to fucking prove people that
I can actually do the fucking thing, like, you know,
especially when like I'm trying, I'm supposed to be sitting
in a commentary booth like talking about hands and stuff
like that, and people.
Speaker 2: Might be like, well, who the hell is this guy?
Speaker 3: What is he?
Speaker 2: I'm like, can I just win a damn tournament?
Speaker 1: Like, not like I'm not talking about like, you know,
the south Point Nightly shout out to the south Point Nightly,
but I'm talking like a meaningful tournament.
Speaker 2: Can I actually do something? You know?
Speaker 1: So I understand what you're saying. I feel the same
way sitting here, Like I want to put out the
best podcast and the best content and have the best
content team and like do the best stuff like I
And it's always going to drive you, you know, and
it eats at you. I get it. So I definitely
feel what you go through. And the best people in
any industry, it's not just poker. They have to have
that drive.
Speaker 2: You just have to.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And and you know it's funny because, uh, you know,
I'm bringing up Seaver a lot just because he's on
my mind because I drafted him and we've been talking
a good bit the last couple of weeks. But he said,
as soon as your draft room were like welcome team,
He's like, people have the memory of a goldfish, and uh,
and that's kind of that's kind of it. It's like,
what have you done for me lately? And it's it's
like it was weird because you know, I want to
brace it last year and so it's like come into
this year and it's like you would think like that's
but then I you know, I went to Poco goa
studio and I had a couple of seconds and I
was like, Okay, I can I can do this. And
then I did two series and I didn't didn't do much,
and then all of a sudden, I think, well, everybody
must think I suck because I didn't do anything. And
it's so stupid. It's like a ten or fifteen tournament
sample size. But it's just like, if I'm not constantly
proving that I can do it, I feel like people
doubt me. And it's so dumb sometime. I mean, I
don't know. I mean, I keep saying it's dumb, but
I mean, I know, the reality is that these things
nobody just continues to win constantly. You know, it's a poke.
Their poker tournaments, and they're high variants and there's a
lot of really good players and there's a lot of
luck involved as well. So even if you're the most skilled,
which I'm not, you aren't going to win everything. So
I don't know, it's it's what drives me, and so
that's what I need, and so I'm just gonna harness that.
It's you know, I just always harness that as my motivation.
And look, whatever you need out there, you know, if
your feet on the negg, if you feed on the positive,
if you feed on like whatever it is, whatever your
motivation is, you just got to find it.
Speaker 1: Are you someone who you know while you're playing, Like,
is it to the point where like you think about
it while you're playing, or is it more like I
think about it off the table when I'm at the table,
I just focus in on the task at hand.
Speaker 3: No, I mean I think I'm pretty focused at the
table on kind of what I'm doing and what's going on.
But I don't know, it's just what gets me to
come in every day. Like I woke up today, I
mean I was tired. I woke up at like six
o'clock this morning, and I was, you know, it's hard
to go back to sleep, and I found a way
to like sleep another hour or so, and it was
just kind of like I kind of was like, man,
I would be nice to take a day off, and
then I'm like, I'm not taking I'm not taking a
day off. This is the world. Serious. I feel like, well,
why don't you just Yeah, she was like, well, why
don't you just hang around a little while. So I
hung around nextra hour and I skipped the monster stack
and just played Big O' andstud But uh, like that's
taking a break from me. I came in. I came
in at uh, you know, at one instead of at eleven.
So that's that's like me giving myself a break.
Speaker 2: I like, I like that side of the world series.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always thought that endurance is part of
this giant thing, like you have to be able to
well play long days, but then also play those days
over and over and over again hopefully you know, hopefully
you're you're going deep over and over and over again,
and you have to have really thick skin and you're
gonna get punched in the face a lot out there.
I mean, it's tournament poker, that's just the nature of
the beast. But just constantly getting up and being like, well,
I gotta go back.
Speaker 3: I got to The people that I love and admire
the most in this business are the people who, regardless
of the results, I know they're going to be here
for forty five days. Yeah, And you know, it's it's funny.
You've did it. You've done it. You did the twenty
five k draft for years, and you talk to all
these people, and I get people who text me and
they want to be part of the team, and they
want to be drafted and they want all this stuff.
And it's like everybody's got a schedule until they go, oh,
for twelve and they're now in seventy thousand. You know,
everybody plans to show up every day and put in
the two hundred thousand or three hundred thousand or four
hundred thousand, but prove it to me for five five
years that you're actually going to do it, because it's scary.
You know, you draft somebody and you know, we make
all these side bets and we invest all this money,
and then next thing, you know, like they're they're oh
for eight and they're down you know, forty eight thousand,
and they're like, uh, well, I'm going to play golf
and it's like I'm out, Like I can't take it.
So being emotionally strong is those are the people that
I love that you can just count on. You just
know they're going to be here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean speaking of fantasy ODB fantasy Now before
we get into like the numbers and the growth that
it had, I got to ask you because it's kind
of along these same lines. You know, not only are
you showing up at least for the first week or
so doing the whole poker thing, going through that gauntlet,
you're then trying to wrangle this league together. I mean
I like that, so that on top of trying to
play the best poker that you can play, hopefully winn
another bracelet go deep final tables, whatever, you're like, I
got to collect five hundred ars from everyone, like I
gotta keep this list, I gotta do this, that and
the other thing. So I mean, how are you doing
all of that at once?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean when I started this thing, I obviously
never envisioned this, but as it's become such a part
of the World Series, you know, I feel on obligation
to continue it. And yeah, it's way more work. I mean,
Nicole and I joke all the time that, you know,
the World Series doesn't really start for me till like
mid June. I mean, I'm always over twelve. And this
year somehow, I've you know, the very first event I
cashed in and had an opportunity, and I've had you know,
multiple cashes and deep ish runs and it's very rare
for me because it's very hard for me to focus
on both. But I don't know, I mean I love it,
and everybody loves it. I mean, getting the thank yous
for doing it, like repeatedly, like that keeps me going.
It's kind of and I told you this last year
and another interview we did, but it's kind of my
give back a little bit to the community, like they
love it and I love it, and look it's not easy,
and there's a lot of like, you know, it's just
it's annoying.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I feel like every day I
wake up, there's a new post on social media, like, hey,
does anyone know these people?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I mean the worst thing is just like
people who can't read simple instructions. It's like I took
the time to write out a one page thing to
tell you exactly what to do, and they just ask
me the thing that's like clearly right there. I mean
I can't imagine. I mean, keV Math does this for
you know, three hundred and sixty five days a year.
It's like he'll post the structure sheet and they'll be like, well,
what times it start, and it's like, yeah, it's right there,
I just posted it. But yeah, I mean I I
love the fantasy aspect of it. And you know, those
who haven't heard the story before, just a quick how
I started this thing eleven years ago. Ray Henson and
I used.
Speaker 2: To drive from years. I didn't know it was that long.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is eleventh year. Ray Henson and
I used to drive from Houston to Vegas every year
and we would runt a house together and so we
would drive twenty four hours and we would always drive
in the day that they were doing the draft, and
we would listen to the live coverage and always hoping
that we would be drafted and how much and all that.
And we were driving one year and I was it
was eleven years ago, and I said, I was like, man,
these people are terrible at this. I mean, I was like,
they're so bad.
Speaker 1: It's like we got started in there too, because we
were like, everyone sucks at this thing?
Speaker 3: What are they doing? And so I just posted a
Twitter thing. I was like, let's anybody want to make
a team. And I was just expecting to do like
a couple of side bets, and then like I just
got multiple people that were like, yeah, let I'll do
it versu you so, and then all of a sudden,
you know, I get all these things. I'm like, well,
let's just let's just all do it together instead of
me doing one on one, you know, betts versus you
because you and so I asked Nicole, I was like,
can we do this? And she was like yeah, and
she built an Excel spreadsheet and she she manually put
in We got ninety four entries the first year. It
was like literally an idea that I had in twenty
four hours later, we had ninety four entries. I had
built like a new email account to take the emails
and the whole thing, and she manually scored it in
an Excel spreadsheet for ninety four people. And then it's
it's built up through the years. And last year we
had eight hundred and seventy people and this year twelve
hundred entries.
Speaker 1: So yeahah, so from ninety four to twelve oh one,
over that eleven year span is like almost thirteen x.
You just mentioned eight to seventy last year, twelve o
one this year, that's about a fifty percent increase.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just it's it. The growth is wild.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the growth is the growth is crazy. I mean,
and I think you know, we had what's at like
three hundred and twenty five or whatever new entries this year,
but we had like one hundred and sixty new people.
So it's not like it's just some people are entering
more or whatnot. It's like we're actually getting new people.
And I'm you know Stan who does the website, if
I mean, he's just absolutely amazing, and hit started with
him with the labor of love too. He he is,
he lives in Pennsylvania, he's got a real job, and
he was just a fanboy of poker and he asked
Daniel if he could do sit and he did, and
then he contacted me for like year. I think we
did year one and two and three I think on
Excel spreadsheets and then he had contact. He's like, I
think I can build you out something, and so we
started building in every He's just constantly trying to improve
it and it's amazing what he has built. So I
love working with him. He's just a great guy and
very talented. So yeah, I'm next year there'll just be
more improvements. And you know, I've got some ideas next
year to make it a little bit easier for myself.
Hopefully they work out.
Speaker 1: But yeah, does it surprise you that that Fantasy Pokra
has gotten so big?
Speaker 3: No, not really, because it's I mean, I don't know people. Yeah,
I mean, we're we're dealing with a bunch of gamblers,
and we're dealing with people who have I think they're
smarter than everybody else. And we were also, you know,
we we kind of grew up the people who are
playing this Now we grew up with when DraftKings was like, uh,
you know, it's still big, but like in Nevada, obviously
it's not legal. It's a little harder to play, gotta
go across the border, YadA, YadA, YadA. But you know,
we grew up in kind of a fantasy DFS.
Speaker 1: I mean Draft Kings now is I mean it's known
for sports betting, like, well, there's probably a lot of
people that there it is. Again, there's probably a lot
of people on DraftKings right now who participate on the
platform that might not even have any idea what DFS is,
and like grinding out the DFS like that's what DraftKings was.
I mean, now it's this huge sports betting platform. Yes,
I mean they're even getting into prediction markets and that
whole thing too, But it was only DFS back in
the day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I remember when we had the DraftKings
lounge and stuff, and you know, I still love DraftKings
and you know, I do underdog drafts and DraftKings drafts
and I do Draft Kings dfs you know, when it's
football season and stuff. So it's all about just kind
of trying to show that you can both use your
opinions plus some game theory, and it's just fun. I mean,
it's not surprising me because it's fun. Like you know,
obviously I did it because I love it and enjoy it.
And I think I'm around like minded people. I mean,
I think this whole industry we're all kind of like
minded and the things that we like to do.
Speaker 2: Do you play your own fans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. I don't. I only put in a
few teams because I'm I'm so busy at the time.
From the minute that the twenty five K draft is over,
I'm like trying to go through the bonus players, see
who didn't get drafted, who I can add. People are
texting me trying to add people are paying, So I
don't really have time to actually kind of put it down.
But I always throw in a few teams. And I
used to. I used to just use my name on
the title, but I would always have people like, oh,
you didn't pick me, huh. It's just like so now
I just make up make up names.
Speaker 1: That's such a funny aspect of this fantasy league, the
fantasy poker leagues, both the twenty five K and your league.
It's like because people even tell me like, oh, you
didn't draft me this year. I like, I DMed you
my schedule. I'm like, okay, I can only pick eight people. Man, Like,
what do you want me to do?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Maybe I tried to bid on you and somebody outbid me,
which happened a couple of times, and then I'm like, listen,
I tried, Okay, I didn't have enough money.
Speaker 2: What do you want me to do?
Speaker 3: I mean a funny story. I mean, I don't know film.
But so Jason Daly is he a good friend of
Ray Henson's and for the last two years he's told
it and we've been like, yeah, you know, you're on
a let and he's always been like the bubble boy
that like, if if one person got bid on that
we had just above him, we would have had Jason.
But we never ended up with him. This year, I
told him we're drafting you. I told Ray. I was like,
tell him, we're going to draft him. And then, because
then nobody knows him, I'm just going to keep him
to the end. And then Jeremy Becker throws him out
like halfway through the auction, and then I'm bidding two, three, four,
and but my philosophy on the draft is just you know,
I've got all these guys that are kind of that
I like a lot that are I expect to get
at the end, but I don't want to. I don't
want to pay for them early because I want to
leave the flexibility when there's somebody that is you know,
good value or you know, I can use those dollars
to bid up like some of the good teams that
I know like are willing to pay more and things
like that. So I just let him go even though
I wanted him this year. And then he wins a
bracelet and like his first amend. So it's kind of like, well,
you know, but it's funny because he's like every year
he's he's like, oh, you didn't draft me again, and
I think he's just the second year he want a bracelet,
and so yeah, it's it is funny how people do
kind of take it personally when when they don't when
they don't get bought by you. But look like we're
only we like you said, we can only do eight
and you know I have three hundred schedules in my DM,
so it's like, I mean, I'm sorry, Like you know,
I'd love to have you all.
Speaker 1: I thought the twenty five K fancy draft this year
was like the softest it's ever been. I I I
part of my lack of motivation to do it this
year is that I thought last year was very tough.
I thought a lot of people were prepared, a lot
of people had the same guys that we had pegged,
so I was like, well, okay, whatever, and then I
just never felt the motivation that said this year, I
was like, what the hell are people doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I thought there were some really poor drafters in
the room. But I think a lot of it is
the product of we've gotten new people in that they
might not have all the contacts and so they're basically
just using the raw data from past years to formulate
the prices, or they're just taking their no limit you know,
friends or whatever, and you've got to just kind of
I mean, I do have a little advantage that I
kind of know like all the mixed game community, and
I know the no limit guys. Now that I'm playing
in the studio, you know, I started to meet some
of those guys, and like, this year, my target, my
my plan was to make sure that I got a
couple studio guys, and I got David Coleman, who you know,
no offense to anybody else. No, he didn't Stone Bubble,
No really yeah, oh shit. See that's the thing they
don't even is that real breaking news?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You want to know.
Speaker 1: The hand too is a funny one. He opens the button.
Jesse lonis who's a big Chip leader. Three bets from
the Big Blind. David has King nine suited, David four
bets like all but like five k left.
Speaker 2: Jesse just has aces.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: I didn't know I because you know, once they started
doing the feature tables, they don't put on the Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's got a change, by the way. That's I
sent the messages today to people too, because there's like
forty fifty people in the app that just say featured player,
feature player. I'm like, can we like at least with
their names, Yeah, just so I know they're still in
the tournament when if they bust out?
Speaker 2: Like fine? Like what right?
Speaker 3: I was Actually I was excited to go home and
watch the coverage and see Coleman on there.
Speaker 2: Now are you are you someone?
Speaker 1: Who do you do you consume the coverage? Like well,
I mean obviously it's probably hard for you while you're.
Speaker 3: Playing hard while I'm playing. I watched I watched the
heads Up. I watched some of the heads Up because
well because I was on it. But it's all also
just you know, I kind of wanted to see some
of it. I I really haven't had the time because
I'm I'm playing every day. But if there's if there's
people that I want to watch, I will, you know,
and I like everything that they're doing here. It's just
it's hard to watch while I'm at the table. But
if there's something like super interesting, I'm not going to
watch like the random tables just because I'm you know,
I don't want it to take away too much from
my playing. But you know, if I'm sitting in the
monster stack tomorrow, like I'll put the coverage on, but
you know, i'm playing ten K stud I'm not going
to watch the coverage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, back to fantasy real quickly. Is there is there
anything that you might have learned from running the ODB
League that maybe you you know, it's kind of like
a little side benefit or something to be like, oh,
like that's kind of cool that I get to do
this or whatever, like maybe something that you didn't a
preciate when you first started.
Speaker 2: Then now you do appreciate.
Speaker 3: I really do, just like appreciate the people more, but
not from uh, I haven't learned anything that's helped me
in the twenty five K thing or or any of that,
which I probably should, Like you really should just look
at the ownerships and the ODB League and kind of
get a sense at who people think are good players.
You know, like Pads is continuously one of the most
owned players. So that just means that the other players
who are playing obviously respect him. Obviously. It also comes
to the fact that he always says I'm not playing
and he shows up every fucking day. But and I
love Pads. Pads is one of my one of the
people that have become the closest to me over the
last two years.
Speaker 2: I love Pads.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Patrick Leonard, and you know, he's someone
who I think he obviously posts a lot on social media,
right and if for you guys out there, and I've
said this before, so this isn't anything new for many
of you, but you can glean a lot of really
good tips and insight, like he might not be always
diving into the details of a hand history, which he
does at times, yes, but there's other things, like, you know,
I talked about you being one of those people who
shows up every day and just consistently playing as close
to the top of your game. Like that's a big
Pads thing, Like just always showing up and playing the
best you can play when everyone else is going up
and down, everyone's gonna have a bad day there. You know,
people are just gonna fire it in and just do whatever.
Like they might be on tilt, they might be tired,
they might be over because they're over eighteen, you know,
like all that sort of stuff. But if you can
just keep showing up even if your game isn't as
good as everyone else is, But if you're consistently playing
that the best you can, you're probably gonna have a
decent amount of success because everyone else is gonna go
all over the place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Also, like you'll hear
a lot of the high limit players and you know
a lot of times they get asked like, well, why
are you guys playing this game? It's like who's the fish,
and it's like, well, it depends on the day, yeah,
you know, And the thing that makes the great players
the best is their ability to like, if I could
just have my B game every single day, I take it.
But the thing is, like, we're all human. We have
our A games, we have our B games, we have
our C games, we have our D games. So trying
to play your D game as little as possible, or
at least in spots where you can kind of get
away with it because you're playing against lesser competition or whatever,
that's kind of key. And and you know, I try
to do that. I'm not I'm definitely not perfect in
that I've played some horrific hands over the years and
everyone has, yeah, and I mean, I'm sure I've played
multiple This year, I feel like I feel like this series,
I really have played pretty damn good. So I'm I'm
I'm hopeful that the rest of the series kind of
goes well because I have felt like I've played pretty
pretty good so far. So you know, I'm excited. I
can't say that every year I've started out feeling that way,
especially like you said, you know, I'm so distracted the
first week, week and a half. I definitely don't think
that that that I have at times, but kind of
making a little run in the first event, and then
you know, I got an early final table just like
a week ago and or I don't even know what
is three four days ago and no limit douce. I
think that kind of has kind of showed me, you know,
just keep playing well and you're gonna, you know, you're
gonna give yourself opportunities. So I mean that's at the
end of the day, that's all we can do is
try to put ourselves in position as much as possible.
And you know, I've said this before, but it's it's
like all every opportunity that I've had that I've missed,
I've tried to like get something out of and you know,
hopefully get in a better position the next time that
I'm in that and I can kind of look back.
I was having this discussion with somebody the other day
and they were, you know, why do you play the
studio events like they're not good? Like there's no eve either,
And it's you know what, if I'm break even ev
in the studio or even small loser, that is more
learning than you can do, then you can pay for
in any course. Because now I'm playing against David Coleman,
I'm playing against Shannon Shure, I'm playing against you know,
Jesse Lonis, I'm playing against these people, so when I
get in these spots in these tournaments, I'm not foreign
to it. Also, in the studio, you're playing against you know,
there's less tables, so you get to the final three tables,
you get to the final two tables, you get to
the final table more often. So I've been in these
positions where I've seen the ICM implications and I also change.
Speaker 1: You know, in the studio generally speaking, most of the
tournaments start fairly shallow. So like you're in there and
like hand one, it's meaningful poker. You're like, let's go.
You know, this isn't like I got five hundred big blinds.
Let's just sit around for three hours. Maybe somebody will
punt to me.
Speaker 2: Whatever. No, You're in there and you're like, you gotta go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I can. I can think of other
times in my career that maybe I haven't capitalized on
spots that maybe if I had, you know, taken a
slightly negative ev spot by by putting myself in some
of these tournaments that are a little tougher, that maybe
I would have been more prepared for and that pays
for all the you know, if you're playing like a
five thousand dollars tournament at the Poker Co Studio. You know,
a player like myself that even if I'm even if
I'm not a big winning player there, like what am
what's it costing me like three hundred bucks to play
when I got forty seven hundred TV instead of fifty
one hundred or whatever. It's like, I'm not You're not
losing every time. So even if I'm losing small, I'm
gaining the experience and the knowledge that when I get
in this situation and I get down to three tables
here at the World Series, like last year, you know,
I was in the seniors and and I obviously you know,
I won that, And it's like the three tables in
I was able to do things that I might not
have done had I not been able to play with
some of those players, you know, over the past year
two years. So it's like now that I'm getting more
experience playing against those type of players, when I when
I get in these opportunities again, which I know I'm
going to, I'll be able to harken back to. And also,
you know, I watch what's Brock Wilson doing, Like like,
how is he having so much? Like I'm watching the
things that he's doing and I'm like, why did he
do that? And I'm I'm really good at reverse engineering hands.
A lot of people learn, you know, from front to back.
I kind of learned back to front. You know. People
want to be totally studied and they want to learn,
and then they want to go in and they want
to implement that. What I do. My approach to poker
is more like I watch good players play and I
see the things that they do, and I try to
figure out why did they do that? And Okay, what
would I how do I combat that? And also how
do I bring that into my own game? And so
when I get in these spots, I think back, oh, well,
Shannon Shore did this, I liked the way that he
did that, or I didn't understand the way that he
did that. Let me think about why he did that,
and I will revert. And it always ends up with
me kind of studying because he studies so much, and
he's playing you know, close to I'm not gonna say perfect,
but like he's playing closer to optimal. So if he
does it, let me figure out why. And so that's
kind of been my approach to poker, and that's kind
of why I really like playing with, you know, some
of these best players, some of the best players.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's also a lot to be said just
about putting yourselves in spots. And this isn't just poker,
this is really any avenue of life, putting your spots,
putting yourself in spots that are out of your comfort zone,
that are more challenging, like, because that's going to bring growth, right,
And you have to do a lot of that sort
of stuff, right.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, maybe you're not.
Speaker 1: A winning player if you're in there every single day,
But to take a couple of shots here and there,
I think is fine. And I think a lot of
poker players out there should take shots.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Maybe don't take shots where your risk of ruin is
through the roof, I get it, But you know, you
can take a shot here and there. I've played in
the studio too, you know, and I wanted to take
a shot just to like get out there and like
listen again, going back to what I said at the beginning,
like I'm in the commentary with a lot of times
talking about these players, I need to at least get
out there and experience that you know, even if I lose,
it doesn't it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Just getting your feet wet a little bit, like you
just have to try.
Speaker 3: And it's not only in poker, it's like life. You know.
I wanted to do more what are you called? Like
you know, podcasts and and just more media stuff. So
you know, I started doing some things on you know,
I got invited to do a visting spot. I wasn't
comfortable the first time, but I did it and then
I got a little better, and then you know, I've
I've I've taped some podcasts with you know, Jason McIntyre
and I've you know who saw it with Fox Sports,
and I've and I started my own podcast, Gamble Up.
Hopefully we'll get some episodes back soon. But just kind
of like putting myself out there in uncomfortable spots so
that I can get better, and people ask like, well,
what's your in game with that, and it's like, I
don't know. All I know is that it's something that
I enjoy doing. And look, I'm not going to get
hired by Fox to do a podcast today, but you know,
if I get my reps and I learn how to
do it and I and I get better at it,
and I put myself out there and I make you know,
I make some bad podcasts. That's fine because I'm learning
as I do it, and so hopefully then when I
do get that opportunity to maybe you know, be on
a bigger stage and have bigger opportunities, I'll be more
verse than able to do it. And you know, I'm
sure you probably feel that way too. That's why I mean,
you guys started grid Iron Gamble, and I mean.
Speaker 1: I was, I was completely a fish out of water
when I first started doing podcasts, when I first did commentary,
when I first did any sort of video thing. And
now it's just natural to me, right, But you have
to build up those reps. I mean, maybe there are
some unicorns out there that they just turn on the
camera and they turn on the mic and they just
go and whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, just exactly, Yeah, you just started.
Speaker 1: And like there's a lot of learning with it, and
you just you have to go through those reps.
Speaker 2: You have to do it.
Speaker 1: It's just how it is, and you're not gonna learn
without doing it. You're just you're just not so And
it's the same thing, like I'm sure there's a lot
of people out there who they had that same sort
of feeling. I mean, I had that same sort of
feeling when I first went to play.
Speaker 2: Poker into casino.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh shit, I gotta go like playing a casino, Like,
am I gonna like do I know how to like
handle my chips?
Speaker 2: And I gotta slip over my cards like you know,
But eventually it's just it's just second nature, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So basically, I think what David and I
are saying is like, always take the uncomfortable thing. And
now in my professional life and also in my regular
life too, you know, I try and kind of always
say yes to stuff. My wife is really good at this.
She's always like, we need to go here, we need
to hang out with this people, and I'm just my
initial reaction is like I don't want to do any
of that. I don't want to talk to people. I
just want to be you know, the family guy at
home whatever. But she forces me to do that. She
takes me out of my comfort zone, which is why
I think we work so well together. And and that
sort of stuff leads to a lot of growth in
all areas of life.
Speaker 3: So I mean, and also in poker, I think it's
important to get out of your comfort zone. So something
that I've done recently is about six eight months ago,
I decided that I wanted to start playing more Nola
m cash. So I started playing in MJ's game at
the area, and I just started putting myself in uncomfortable
situations at the table and knowing that I'm some of
these things are probably losing place, but I wanted to
see how like I reacted and how people reacted to
me doing putting myself in. It's easy to sit there
and just fulfold. Oh I have ace king, I'm all in,
you know. Like, but when you start playing like these
weird hands, you think Keating was like great at playing
trash before he started, No, but like he put himself
in uncomfortable situations and watching like him and Wass and
Hanks and these guys put themselves in uncomfortable situations in
games and work their way out. Well, you can watch
that all you want, but you're not gonna get good
at it until you just start putting yourself in uncomfortable situations.
And I don't play tournaments like I play cash, you know,
but in tournaments sometimes like when you're deep, you know,
and it's a smaller tournament, or it's something that like
you just want to practice, Like, go put yourself in
some uncomfortable situations, you know, three bets, some weird hands,
play hands out of position, play you know, call raises
in the blind, Like just experiment because it's gonna pay
dividends later on, because you're not going to be able
to play ABC as you move up the ladder in poker,
So try to put yourself in uncomfortable situations in life,
but also at the poker table, because that's gonna get
you better in the long run. This isn't a you know,
this is a game of constant evolution, and you're constantly
you need to be evolving yourself in your game. So
the more uncomfortable slots you get in, the more comfortable
you'll be in those uncomfortable spots in the future.
Speaker 1: What's the overall mood at the series this summer from
from somebody who's there every single day with all these
different players, all these different characters, Like, is there anything
that feels different or is it just the same as
it's always been.
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of business as usual. I don't
really since anybody being overly like this is way better
than last year, this is way worse than last year.
All the improvements we like. I don't think it's necessarily
transpired into an over the top enthusiasm that amongst the
players that you know changes, but we are happy with
some of the changes. We are happy. Obviously, we love
the app We love how like the lines have been down.
The dealers, for the most part, have been better. Obviously,
they're those of us who know that you can't just
bring on two thousand people and have them be perfect dealers,
Like that's just not going to be the case. But
for the most part, I feel like they've been better.
I think this rating system is good. You know, we
love the stage like the fantasy aspect. Just it's crazy.
I mean, Daniel and I have talked about this, but
because of Daniel's league and my league, it helps the
World Series numbers grow. Do you know how many people
play events that they wouldn't normally play because they get drafted.
I have I have a bunch of people who put
themselves on there, who asked me to list them as
bonus players so they could draft themselves and they can
play more events. You know, people who get drafted. I
mean everybody on my team. Like, if you want to
play something that you you know you're on the fringe about,
you know, let me know. I mean I might help you,
Like I might buy a small piece just to get
you over the top, to get you in like they're
and so that helps drive numbers. People have the pride
of being on teams. So I think all all that excitement.
Noia just won Bracelet yesterday. He's on our twenty five
K team. He drafted himself on four ODB teams. Like
one of the things he posted after winning was look
my ODB teams in second place. You know, when he
came to me and he was he was like so
excited that, like his team was doing well. And then
it's like, hey, you just want to bracelet four hundred
and fifty thousand dollars or something. That's what you should
be excited about, not be second in my league. But
it's I love that. I love that people like think
about that as one of the first things that they
think about the serious and and you know, hopefully when
I'm long gone from this, maybe somebody will just take
it on and keep my name attached to it.
Speaker 1: I mean I think now it's going for eleven years,
it's it's just locked in. Yeah, unfortunately, So I mean
someone's gonna have to do it, you know, if you
move on. But you know it's always going.
Speaker 3: To be when I move on, I'll be moving down
down down Under because I'm not you know, my Poker's
my life. And I've said this before. I'm a lifer.
I love this stuff. And you hear some of these
people say, O, if I won the main event, you'd
never see me again. If I won the main event,
you see me at Triton. I mean I'd be like everywhere.
Like I mean, I'm not I'm playing poker. I'm playing
poker and I'm betting football. Like those two things they're
not changing. So those are my two Those are my
two passions when it comes to gambling, and those are
the two things I'm gonna do. So yeah, you'll see
me at the World Series, you know, as long as
I can you know, sit up straight and in a
chair for eight hours.
Speaker 1: A question that I've been asking everyone that I try
and talk to this summer, what does success look like
for you when the summer is all said and done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I'd love to say it's winning a bracelet,
but it's I'm not gonna call it a failure if
if I don't win a bracelet and I do some
other things. I don't think there's one thing that necessarily
signals success for me. But you know, I could give
you the generic, Well, if I play good, I'll be
happy and let the cards falut. But that's I mean,
that's not me. I mean I need to win. I
need to put myself in position to win. I you know,
if I don't have at least three or four final
tables and legitimate shots at bracelets, you know, it'll be
a failure to me. Now, you know, if I win
the Monster Stack and then I brick out, you know
ten of ents, you know the rest of the series,
that will be a success. Obviously you win a million
dollars and you know whatever. But you know, the success
kind of just varies on which events you do well in.
I mean, if I final table fifteen hundred no limit
deuce and get eighth and fifteen hundred limit hold them
and I get ninth and and you know, twenty five
hundred such and such and I get seventh, that's probably
a failure. But you know, if I get fifth in
the PPC and that's my only one, then it's probably
like a success. So, you know, I don't know my
you know, I just want to have fun. I want
to enjoy myself every day, and I want to, you know,
monetarily come out in the positive and and you know,
add to my resume of final tables and hopefully bracelets.
I think it's very realistic that I went another one.
So yeah, I mean that's obviously that is at the forefront.
If I win a bracelet, like it can't be a failure,
you know, even if I lose money, which is kind
of kind of weird to say, but I mean I
will I probably won't lose money if I want a bracelet.
I don't know. The worst bracelet's like, what one hundred
and fifty thousand, So I'm probably gonna play four hundred K.
So it'd be hard for me to lose too much
money if I if I want a bracelet.
Speaker 1: When the summer is done, do you does it take
a little bit for you to kind of decompress. You
have to just kind of chill out and get over
the grind that just happened for seven weeks.
Speaker 3: I'm Bill different, man, I can I can go. I
mean I grew up.
Speaker 2: I grew up back in my day. I grew up.
Speaker 3: I grew up on the streets of Commerce, California, where
we just played NonStop. We're playing NonStop poker. MJ's game
runs five days in a week, and I'm there like
five days a week. You know, I'll be you know
when when July eighteenth or nineteenth or whatever comes, I'll
be like, shit, why doesn't the wind just have something
here like post limb, Like, I'll be ready to go.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, i might take a few
days or a week, but I'll be back at the table.
I mean, it's a drug. I mean I'm addicted. I'm
addicted to poker. I'm addicted to gambling, and uh, you
know it's lucky. Then I'm just kind of good at it.
So you know, for people who are addicted to things
that they're not good at is bad. But yeah, it
doesn't take me too long. I'm built different, Like I said,
I mean, I just it's nothing really phases me in
a regard of wanting to not play, cause if I'm
doing well, I want to press it, and if I'm
doing bad, I want to I want to prove to
myself that I can do it. And if you're breaking evening,
it's like, well, I'm just kind of wasting time. So
I better like get I get winning or get losing.
So there's really no stopping point. Like some people are like, oh,
if I win, I'll like take a break. Some people
like take a break when they're losing. I just don't
take breaks.
Speaker 2: I think that's all I have for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I just want to say thank you for
having me, because I, like you say on many of them,
I am a loyal fan and I'm a poker fan boy. First,
you know. It's it's cool that I get to kind
of be a fanboy and at the same time some
people fanboy me. Uh, you know, it's kind of weird. Yeah,
it's kind of weird. Like you know because at the
World Series, you get to play in the ten k
study and you get to play with like your legends,
and they hear I played in the ten k gig
the other day with Phil Ivy and he gets to
the table and he looks at me and he double takes.
And you know, I've played with Phil a lot. I've
played with Phil many times and you always think like
they know who you are. But you know, with Phil,
you just never really like, I know Phil Helme, you
knows my name, I know Daniel mcgreano's. I don't know
if Phil Ivy knows who I am. So like he
comes he sits, he looks at me, and he double
takes and he goes, you lost some weight, Huh. I
was like he knows me. I was like, I was like, yes.
It was like if I like the fanboy and he
comes out, it's like, okay, he knows who I am,
Like he remembers that, like we've played together and we've
had some good experiences and so so I still get
to be the fanboy. But then I also get to
go and I get to play you know, the five
hundred Mystery Million, and there's three four people there that
are like talking to me about things like they're fanboying me,
and you know, I like that. I like the fact
that I get to be somebody's that they look up to.
And so I don't know.
Speaker 1: That that's probably yeah, And in a way it probably,
I guess keeps you in check because because you know
that some people can look up to you, so you're
not just going to be flying off the handle like
some lunatic running around like you know, actually there's people
that like might look up to me, so I can't
look like a fool.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So, I mean the whole point I got
on this tangent was I'm a fan of the pod.
I'm a fan of you and and when Tim was
part of it and Remco was part of it, and
I've wanted to, you know, come on and just just
shoot the ship with you, because you know, we obviously
we talk a lot anyway during football season especially and
leading up to poker season and stuff, because you know,
I love what you and rich And and mow And
and Brett do with Great Iron Gamble as well. And
I listened to this pod all the time. So it's
a pleasure, honestly to get to come on here and
talk poker, something that I love with somebody who loves
it as much as I do. So yeah, thank you
for having me, and thank you for everything that you
do for Poker the World series, the studio, the Poker
Goro series and everything you know, from the people who
don't get a chance to or they're too shy to
tell you, or they don't get to just want to
tell you that there's a lot of us out there
that appreciate the way that you love poker and the
things that you do, so as a bastion for them,
I just want to tell you thank you and.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you. I'm just a guy who loves the game. Man. Yeah,
that's me too. I just absolutely love it. I know
you do. I know you do. We might be following you.
Speaker 1: At some point throughout the summer, you know, hopefully in
the coming days do a little day in the life
or something of ODB and then I don't know, hopefully
you win a bracelet or two and we just talked
to you again.
Speaker 2: You know that's a dream, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope I get to I hope I get
to cry on camera again last year. So yeah, I'm
here for anything that. You know, if there's anybody else
out there that wants to, you know whatever, sponsor me
or do anything like I'm here.
Speaker 2: I'm here.
Speaker 1: Nobody loves it more on top of the hard rankings people.
All right, he's David O. D B.
Speaker 2: Baker.
Speaker 1: My name is Donnie Peters, who's a pleasure as always
on the pover Girl podcast, and we will talk to
you guys, next time.