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Speaker 1: All right, So get this today, we are diving deep

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into a story that's uh, it's both fascinating and controversial.

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You know. So we're talking about the Grand Canyon, Okay,

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but not the usual like breathtaking vistas and hiking trails, right,

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We're going deeper.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: This is about what might lie hidden beneath the surface.

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And it's a mystery that has captivated explorers, yeah, and

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fueled all kinds of conspiracy theories for over a century.

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Speaker 2: For over a century.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's pretty crazy. Yeah. So what I think

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is so compelling about this story is how it kind

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of brings together all these different elements. What do you mean,

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you know, archaeology and adventure, whispers of a cover up,

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all set against the backdrop of one of America's most

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iconic landmarks.

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Speaker 2: The Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So it all begins back in nineteen oh nine with

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this explorer named uh ooh g e King Cake g

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Eking kid. Yeah, and he was on this expedition down

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the Colorado River oh wow, you know, just charting the

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untamed waters of the canyon and something unusual catches his

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eye really yeah, Like high up on the canyon wall,

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there's this discoloration in the rock. Huh that just hinted

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at something man made.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: So driven by curiosity, like any good explorer, of course,

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Kincaid decides to investigate. So what happens next, Well, this

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is where the story takes a pretty dramatic turn. I

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bet he finds all these steps steps, yeah, carved into

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the sandstone, leading to a hidden cave entrance. Oh wow.

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And what he found inside? What it wasn't just another cave?

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 1: It was this meticulously constructed underground complex. Wow. I mean

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suggesting a level of sophistication that just is so far

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beyond what we typically think of when we think about

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the indigenous cultures of the region.

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Speaker 2: It makes you wonder for sure, what else is out there?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: So you find down.

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Speaker 1: There, Well, Kincaid was really zero okay. He documented everything everything. Yeah,

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Like he described this whole network of tunnels and chambers,

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and some of them were massive, Like how big? Big

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enough to hold thousands of people?

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Speaker 2: Thousands of people?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, right, it's huge. It wasn't just the

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scale that was impressive, okay, but it was also evidence

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of advanced technology and like really sophisticated cultural practices.

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Speaker 2: What kind of evidence.

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Speaker 1: Well, for example, he found these granaries stocked with preserved seeds.

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Preserved seeds, Then that indicates they knew about agriculture and

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long term planning.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing, you know, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the metal working areas. Yeah, and particularly

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evidence of copper hardening techniques.

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Speaker 2: Now that's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: It is because copper hardening strengthens the metal. Yeah, but

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it wasn't widely practiced until like much later in history.

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So if Kinkaid's right, if he's right.

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Speaker 3: This would totally challenge our understanding of technology exactly at.

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Speaker 2: That time period.

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Speaker 1: It would suggest a level of advancement. Wow, that just

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doesn't fit with what we think we know.

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Speaker 2: I can see why people are so fascinated by it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And it gets even crazier because then there's

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the crypt Aid describes this, is it like this chilling scene, Oh,

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with rows and rows of mummies.

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Speaker 2: Mummies in the Grand Canyon, I know, right, Wow?

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Speaker 1: And they were all male huh, all male, laid out

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in this ceremonial fashion. That's so strange, with all sorts

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of intriguing artifacts.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that gives me chills just thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: I know, can you imagine being surrounded by all these

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silent sentinels. It's like whispers from a forgotten past.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So at the heart of this complex, there's this

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central chamber and it's dominated by this large statue described

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as Buddha like Buddha like yeah.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: So this detail, if true, right, raises all these questions

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about cultural exchange for sure, and how religious ideas could

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have traveled across continents. That would be incredible, I know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Kinkaid realizes, okay, this is a huge discovery. Yeah.

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So he contacts the Smithsonian Institution.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, you know, the.

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Speaker 1: Pre eminent scientific body in the US. He sends them

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artifacts uh huh, detailed notes of everything he's found. A

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team led by Professor S. A. Jordan arrives at the canyon.

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Speaker 2: Wow, ready to excavate.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, ready to explore this incredible underground city.

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Speaker 2: So what did they find?

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Speaker 1: Well, what they found just deepens the mystery.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 1: They uncover thousands of artifacts, thousands, thousands soars shields, this

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intricately crafted pottery. Wow, strange cat's eye stones.

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Speaker 2: Cat's eye stones? What are those?

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Speaker 1: It's just these like unusual stones huh. But most importantly

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stone tablets covered in hieroglyphics.

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Speaker 2: Hieroglyphics, Yeah, that's wild, it is.

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Speaker 1: But the expert struggled with what to decipher the writing.

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They couldn't definitively identify the civilization they created all these objects.

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Speaker 2: I see there.

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Speaker 1: Were some similarities to Egyptian and Tibetan cultures, interesting, but

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with unique elements that just defied easy categorization.

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Speaker 2: So they couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Nope. Wow, And then what the story takes a turn

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into the shadows, both Kincaid and Professor Jordan.

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Speaker 3: Vanish vanish without a trace, like completely gone gone Wow.

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Speaker 1: And their disappearance, coupled with the Smithsonian's subsequent silence on

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the matter, silence like they didn't say anything about it, Wow,

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fueled all this speculation about a cover up.

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Speaker 2: A cover up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Were they silenced to protect a narrative Okay that

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challenged the accepted history of North America? He makes you wonder,

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it really does. Yeah, and that's the question that is

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haunted researchers and just like armchair archaeologists of course, for

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over a century.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So did this Smithsonian known for you know, favoring certain

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archaeological theories. Did they deliberately bury evidence of a civilization

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okay that predates Native American presence in the region.

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Speaker 2: This is where it gets really interesting, it does.

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Speaker 1: This is where the story really captures the imagination and

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delves into the realm of conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: So let's like unpack some of the arguments, right that

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are presented by those who who believe there was a

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deliberate effort to suppress Kincaid's findings.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: One point that is often raised is the Smithsonian's historical

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preference for isolationism, isolationism over diffusionism.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so remind me what does are again? Right?

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Speaker 3: So, isolationism is the idea that civilizations develop independently, while

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diffusionism emphasizes the role of in and exchange between cultures.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so they believe that civilization just kind of arose

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exactly independently, rather than through like contact and trade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the basic idea.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, I guess that makes sense in some cases.

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: We do tend to think of cultures as kind of

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these isolated bubbles, right, But history is full of surprising connections.

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It really is, like when you look closer.

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Speaker 2: Think about the Silk Road, for example.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that vast network of trade and cultural exchange

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that spanned continence exactly. So diffusionists would argue that those

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interactions were key to shaping civilizations.

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Speaker 1: Well, isolation is kind of downplay.

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Speaker 2: That, right, They emphasize independent development.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I see, And.

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Speaker 2: How does this relate to the alleged cover up in

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the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

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Speaker 2: Well, think about it this way, Okay.

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Speaker 3: If the Smithsonian was really committed to isolationism, Okay, any

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discovery that hinted at transoceanic contact or cultural exchange in

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ancient North America, it would, like, yeah, totally challenge their

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fundamental beliefs.

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Speaker 1: It'd be a big problem for them, huge. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Imagine finding I don't.

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Speaker 3: Know, evidence of Egyptian influence in the Grand Canyon. Oh wow,

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it would be a paradigm shift. It would change everything.

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Speaker 1: It'd be like finding a Roman chariot buried in your

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backyard exactly. It just wouldn't fit.

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't fit at all with.

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Speaker 1: What we think we know exactly. And then there are

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all these reports, right, yes, scattered throughout history.

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Speaker 2: Of giant skeletons being unearthed.

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Speaker 1: Giant skeleton, yeah.

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Speaker 3: All across North America, and these accounts they were often

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documented during legitimate excavations, they seemed to.

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Speaker 2: Just vanish from.

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Speaker 3: The official records, really leading some people to accuse the

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Smithsonian of deliberately sweeping them under the rug.

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Speaker 1: It's like something out of a movie, is you know,

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like a conspiracy thriller, These powerful institutions hiding evidence that

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could change history.

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Speaker 2: It's a compelling narrative, it is.

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Speaker 1: But is there any actual proof of this?

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Speaker 2: Well that's the million dollar question.

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Speaker 1: Or is it just you know, is it just speculation

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and people wanting to believe in something more exciting. It's

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possible what really happened.

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Speaker 3: While the existence of giant skeletons is often dismissed as

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folklore or misinterpretations, it is interesting that these stories appear

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in so many different cultures and time periods.

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Speaker 1: That is interesting. It makes you wonder if there's something

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more to it.

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Speaker 2: If there's a kernel of truth in there somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe buried beneath all the myths and exaggerations.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what about the restrictions on exploration in the

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Grand Canyon, Right, because people who believe in the cover up.

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They often point to these restrictions as evidence that, well.

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Speaker 2: That something's being hidden.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: It's true that access to certain areas is tightly controlled,

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and the official reason is safety concerns, okay, and environmental protection, right, But.

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Speaker 1: For some people that's not enough. It's easy as suspicious. Right.

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Speaker 3: It's like that old saying when you see a keepout sign, Yeah,

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it makes you more curious about what's on the other side, exactly,

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you want to know what they're hiding.

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Speaker 1: And then you have these eyewitness accounts too, of unmarked

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planes and helicopters monitoring people. Yeah, like watching those who

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try to get into the restricted zone.

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Speaker 3: It definitely creates a sense of secrecy, it does, and

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raises questions about what they're protecting.

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Speaker 1: But are those accounts reliable?

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Speaker 2: That's the thing. They're often hard to verify.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It could be anything, right.

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Speaker 2: It could be misidentified civilian aircraft.

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Speaker 1: Or something more clandestine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't.

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Speaker 1: Know for sure, and that's just adds to the mystery.

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: Then there's the names of the rock formations. Oh yeah,

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in these off limits areas.

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Speaker 2: What about them?

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Speaker 1: Many of them reference what do you mean Egyptian and

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Hindu deities. No way, Yeah, Like isis Temple, tower of

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set Horus Temple, huh, the kiaps Pyramid, the Buddha Temple.

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Speaker 2: That's quite a coincidence.

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Speaker 1: It's a little too strange to just be random. Don't

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you think it is a bit odd? Like are these

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names just whimsical choices by early explorers or are they

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clues to a forgotten past.

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Speaker 2: Echoes of a time when these cultures might have been connected? Exactly,

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It's a fascinating possibility.

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Speaker 1: But of course the Smithsonian denies all of this, right

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they do. They say there's no cover up.

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Speaker 2: They dismissed the Kincaid's story as a hoax.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a story made up to sell newspapers.

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Speaker 3: Which, let's be honest, Yeah, would have been quite a

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scoop back then.

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Speaker 1: A sensational story like that, absolutely, Oh yeah, it would

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have sold a lot of papers.

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Speaker 2: And Skeptics also point to the lack of hard.

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Speaker 1: Evidence right likewise, well.

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Speaker 3: No official records of Kincaid's expedition have been found, really,

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and no one has ever been able to verify the

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authenticity of the artifacts.

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Speaker 1: Huh, So it's all based on his word essentially, and

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what about the restricted zones. They say it's for environmental protection,

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they do, which makes sense, I mean it does.

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Speaker 2: The Grand Canyon is a delicate ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: And they say the names of those rock formations, yes,

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are purely coincidental, the random choices with no connection to

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ancient Egypt or India.

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Speaker 2: That's their explanation.

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Speaker 1: But then how do they explain the unmarked aircraft?

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Speaker 2: Right, that's a tricky one.

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Speaker 1: Because those reports, yeah, they can all be made up, right, while.

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Speaker 2: There's no official explanation.

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Speaker 4: Some people suggest that the sightings could be misidentified civilian aircraft, okay,

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or maybe government agencies conducting routine patrols for what you know,

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for security or environmental purposes.

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Speaker 1: Plausible it is, But I bet for those who believe

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in a cover up, yeah, that's not going to be enough.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to change their minds.

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Speaker 1: So we're left with this, like this tug of war.

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Speaker 3: Between these tantalizing clues and official denial.

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Speaker 1: On one hand, you have the possibility of a hidden civilization,

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advanced technology, and a massive conspiracy to keep it all secret.

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And on the other hand, you have conventional.

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Speaker 2: History, the lack of solid proof.

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Speaker 1: And maybe just our desire our desire.

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Speaker 2: For a more exciting.

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Speaker 1: Past clouding our judgment.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to say for sure.

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Speaker 1: But even if we forget about the cover up for

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a second, Okay, the story doesn't end there. It doesn't

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because people are still trying to find Kincaid's cave. Really,

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even today, people are still searching why. They're driven by

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a desire to uncover the truth.

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Speaker 2: They don't trust the official narrative.

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Speaker 1: They believe there's more to the story. I can understand that,

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and they're willing to go to great lengths to find it.

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Like who, Like Jerry and Kathy Wills, who are they?

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They've dedicated years to this to what to researching and

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exploring the area where Kincaid supposedly made his discovery.

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Speaker 2: Wow, dedicated and get what?

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Speaker 1: They claimed to have found evidence of a base camp,

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a base camp used by the original explorers like Kincaid

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and Jordan. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that would actually support Kinkid's story.

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Speaker 1: It would if it's true. But they've faced a lot

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of resistance.

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Speaker 2: What kind of resistance?

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Speaker 1: Not just red tape and bureaucracy, but something more. They

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tried to explore from below, retracing Kincaid's alleged route, a

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military helicopter showed up. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Seriously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were forced to stop.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty intimidating, I know, right. Was it just a

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security concern or.

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Speaker 1: A deliberate attempt to stop them from exploring further?

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Speaker 2: We don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's just another piece of the.

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Speaker 2: Puzzle, another layer of mystery.

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Speaker 1: It makes you wonder what are they hiding exactly if.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing to hide than while the secrecy we're dealing.

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Speaker 1: With this story that's over one hundred years old, wow,

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passed down through whispers.

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Speaker 2: And rumors fueled by speculation, And while.

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Speaker 1: The lack of solid proof might make some people doubt.

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Speaker 2: It, it does just.

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Speaker 1: Seems to make others more determined to find the truth.

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They believe the truth is out there, hidden somewhere.

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Speaker 3: It's a powerful motivator, it is. So why do you

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think the story resonates with people so.

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Speaker 1: Much after all these years? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Why do we care?

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Speaker 1: I think it's because we're all drawn to mysteries. Mysteries

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add to the possibility that there are secrets hidden just

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beneath the surface of what we think we know.

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Speaker 3: The thrill of the unknown exactly, the chance to rewrite history.

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Speaker 1: What if our past is more complex? And exciting than

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we ever imagined. That's what keeps people searching. Yeah, it's

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like we can't resist a good puzzle, right, especially one

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that makes us rethink everything we thought we knew exactly.

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And this Grand Canyon story, yeah, it was has it

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all right?

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: A lost explorer, a hidden city, a possible cover up.

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Speaker 2: And this incredible landscape.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, with the Canyon, it'sself full of mysteries, so much mystery,

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and we can't forget what the people who have called

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this place home.

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Speaker 2: You mean the indigenous tribes exactly, especially the Hope, Right.

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Speaker 1: They have their own stories they do about the Canyon's.

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Speaker 2: History, and they offer a very different perspective.

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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by indigenous cultures tune, the way

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they connect to the land and how their history and

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beliefs are woven into their stories.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of stories do the Hope you tell

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about the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 2: Well, for them, the Canyon isn't just a natural wonder.

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Speaker 1: It's more than that.

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Speaker 3: It's a sacred place. It's a portal to the underworld,

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the underworld and the place where they emerged into this world.

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Their creation myth tells of their ancestors climbing up from

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the depths of the canyon. Wow, led by Spider Woman.

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Speaker 2: Spider Woman a supernatural being.

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Speaker 1: So they believe they came from inside the earth.

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Speaker 2: That's what their stories say.

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Speaker 1: Guided by this powerful spirit. Exactly a powerful image it is.

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It makes you realize that history is always told.

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Speaker 2: From a particular point of view.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, through a cultural lens. And the Hopie also have

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these stories about the ant people.

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Speaker 2: The Ant people, I heard of them.

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Speaker 1: They're these beings who help the Hopie ancestors by giving

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them shelter during a time of great floods.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: They describe them as wise and compassionate.

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Speaker 3: Leading them to safety underground, underground in these caverns.

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Speaker 1: That's so interesting, is it? Because we have the idea

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of underground shelters in both Kincaid's account and the Hope legends.

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Speaker 2: It makes you wonder if there's a connection.

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Speaker 1: A shared memory or ancient knowledge.

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Speaker 2: Passed down through generations.

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Speaker 1: May be woven into both stories.

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Speaker 2: It's possible.

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Speaker 1: And then they're the tales of the Huffassouvi.

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Speaker 2: The Huff Massouvi, there's.

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Speaker 1: Mysterious people with advanced technology.

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Speaker 2: A kind of technology.

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Speaker 1: They had these silver canoes that flew through the sky

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silver canoes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like UFOs, Yeah it does.

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Speaker 1: It like ancient myths and modern mysteries are colliding.

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Speaker 2: Blurring the lines between history and belief and what.

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Speaker 1: We think we know exactly makes you wonder if we're

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missing something.

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Speaker 2: There's more to these stories than we realize.

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Speaker 1: That's what I love about exploring these mysteries.

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Speaker 2: What do you love?

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Speaker 1: It's not about finding all the answers.

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Speaker 2: It's about opening our minds to new possibilities, right, challenging

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what we think we know, and.

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Speaker 1: Accepting that there are things we may never fully understand.

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Speaker 2: The vastness of the unknown exactly.

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Speaker 3: So, going back to the Grand Canyon, Okay, did Kincaid

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really find an ancient city?

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Speaker 1: A city built by a civilization we know nothing about.

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Who were these people, where did they come from, how

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did they.

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Speaker 2: Develop such advanced technology?

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Speaker 1: And what really happened to Kincaid? In Professor Jordan, Did.

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Speaker 2: They just get lost in the canyon.

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Speaker 1: Or were they silenced.

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Speaker 2: Their knowledge deemed too.

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Speaker 1: Dangerous, too disruptive to the accepted version of history.

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Speaker 2: And the biggest question of all the cover up? Was

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there really a cover up?

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Speaker 1: Did the Smithsonian hide the truth to protect their own theories.

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Are they part of a conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: Or are they just trying to preserve history.

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Speaker 1: We may never know for sure, but that's part of

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a mystery. It keeps us asking questions.

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Speaker 2: Keeps us searching for answers.

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Speaker 1: It reminds us that history isn't just a bunch of

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facts in a book. It's a living thing, always changing,

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always evolving, a conversation that never ends.

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Speaker 2: And this story, the Grand Canyon Mystery.

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Speaker 1: Is just one chapter in that larger story.

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Speaker 2: The story of humanity, our search for knowledge, our need

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to understand our place.

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Speaker 1: In the world. And who knows what other secrets.

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Speaker 2: Are out there, hidden just beneath the surface.

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Speaker 1: Waiting to be uncovered.

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Speaker 2: What other mysteries will challenge our.

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Speaker 1: Beliefs and changing how we see the world.

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Speaker 3: So keep exploring, keep questioning, keep that curiosity alive, because

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Speaker 1: You never know what you might find.