WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:03.040 All right, Carl, welcome back to the show. How you 2 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:04.519 doing that doing well? 3 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:05.280 Thanks for having me. 4 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:09.800 I want you to know, apparently the word has gone 5 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:11.919 out that you are now the actual host of this 6 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.199 I've brought you on enough that there's apparently a dissidence 7 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:18.640 arguing for a coup. So I figure, you know what, 8 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:21.800 I can't let Carl get too powerful, right, so I 9 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:24.719 brought on another you too, Jay Burden, for the record, 10 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:30.960 Well good because I'm a dead man. Switch Carl with 11 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:35.960 all of the series of falsely manufactured images of you 12 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:39.359 at Little Saint James. So who knows, right if I 13 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:41.960 suddenly disappear and those pop out on the internet, I'll 14 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:44.600 figure out what happened. But in all seriousness, right, we 15 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:47.840 do have a guest, a friend of mine, Art Wolf. 16 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:53.240 Thanks for coming on, man, hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, 17 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:55.600 so this is gonna be a little bit different than 18 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:57.719 the normal live shows. It's gonna be a little bit 19 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:02.200 more topical. We're gonna touch on a couple things guests here. 20 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.920 As you know, he has a small FFL business, right, 21 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:12.079 and we're talking about one obviously the two a situation 22 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:15.959 in our state of Virginia, but also this kind of 23 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.879 assault on small businesses. Some of this is immediate and legislative. 24 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:23.480 Some of this is broader trends, things that make it 25 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:27.519 difficult for you know, normal middle class people to start 26 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:31.319 a business, right to do something pro social. And of 27 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:33.519 course I think you know, people are familiar with the 28 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.959 broad strokes of what happened electorally in Virginia. If not, 29 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:40.280 use Google you can figure it out, but I'll throw 30 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:42.439 it to you man, just as kind of a you know, 31 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.680 a broad overview of you know, what you do. And 32 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:47.760 then maybe if you could talk a little bit about 33 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:50.760 the you know, the legislative impact of this most recent election. 34 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:56.079 Absolutely so, I'm a home based FFL dealer, and I 35 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.640 imagine a lot of your younger audience is probably already 36 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:02.519 familiar or with what that is. But for those of 37 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:05.480 them who are not familiar. So, when you want to 38 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:07.640 buy a gun, you could either go to a gun store, 39 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:12.439 so a brick and mortar store, commercially zoned building a 40 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:16.439 business with guns all over the wall and ten dollars 41 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:20.080 an hour employees running the counter. You go in, you 42 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:22.520 pick out a gun, and you buy it. Well, actually, 43 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:26.400 there's thousands of people around the country who have the 44 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:30.759 exact same licensing to sell guns and make guns that 45 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.599 these gun stores have, but instead of a commercially zoned 46 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:39.280 business a retail store, they'll actually run the business out 47 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:45.080 of their home. And there's really no difference administratively or 48 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.719 legally in the status of a home based FFL dealer. 49 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:56.840 So when it comes to the service we provide, it 50 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:59.639 tends to be a little bit more bespoke, a little 51 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:03.400 bit more tailored towards the clientele in the local community. 52 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:06.520 So you could have a home based FFL maybe out 53 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:13.479 in rural Virginia that really just has a kitchen countertop style, 54 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:15.840 you know, you go in, you fill out some paperwork, 55 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.360 and it's very casual. And then you might have a 56 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:23.520 home based FFL who maybe takes it to another level, 57 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:28.080 you know, maybe fortifies part of their home, plans to 58 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.960 have a much higher volume of business, and maybe has 59 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:37.400 a professionally formatted website with a catalog on it. And 60 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.719 then you have everything in between. But the key difference 61 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.599 is a home based FFL is really more for a 62 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.800 customer who knows exactly what they want and they want 63 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.280 no other bs, so they don't want to stand in line, 64 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:59.280 they don't want to you know, do paper forms that 65 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:02.280 take forever to fill out, And then you know, maybe 66 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:08.639 the employee isn't entirely competent, or they're distracted, or when 67 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.639 these customers are only using the business for a transfer, 68 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:17.120 maybe they just want somebody who receives the box notifies 69 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.759 the customer same day that it's ready for pickup, whereas 70 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.920 in a gun store they're too busy for that. Maybe 71 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.959 it takes five days before they even think to notify 72 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:28.079 the customer their guns ready for pickup. Well, for these 73 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:31.439 people who don't want all that bs, they don't want 74 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:33.959 all the fluff, They just want to pick up their 75 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:37.759 gun and get out of there, home based FFLs are 76 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:42.399 the perfect option for them. And so I started this 77 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.439 business in twenty nineteen. After doing a couple of transfers, 78 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:47.800 I actually myself went to a home based FFL and 79 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:49.120 I figured, you know what, I could do this a 80 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.839 little more efficiently. I could apply some of my real 81 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:57.920 world career experience, you know, maybe project management organizational skills, 82 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:00.920 and I could do this a little better. I I 83 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.959 could do it a little more efficiently, and maybe I 84 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.120 could have a nicer website. And so I just rolled 85 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.920 up my sleeves applied some of that true American grit. 86 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:16.240 I converted my garage into an office and a workshop 87 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:22.000 and replaced the garage door with the reinforced cinder block 88 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:26.480 wall with skiff rated steel doors, bought a bunch of 89 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:28.000 safes and. 90 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:30.240 Just got to it. 91 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:35.560 And then early on I started with WordPress sites, just 92 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.680 kind of exploring options that are low cost, and that 93 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:44.319 was a little rough. It's very difficult to have a 94 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:48.439 nice catalog unless it's being professionally managed by a serious 95 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:55.920 IT company. So eventually I started searching for software companies 96 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:57.759 that provide the service, and I landed on one that 97 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.680 does it specifically for gun businesses. It was very easy 98 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.720 to set up, so I eventually grew to have a 99 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.000 full on professional website with the catalog so customers could 100 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:09.120 order whatever they want from me. 101 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:11.600 But the true. 102 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:15.600 Bread and butter of the business is transfers. It's hey, 103 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.000 you know, it's great that you have a catalog and all, 104 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:21.120 but frankly, I just want to buy my suppressor. I 105 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.000 want to buy my gun from somewhere else. I found 106 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.680 a great deal, and I just want you to do 107 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.959 the transfer. And that's that's where I add the value. 108 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:31.519 I get people in and out the door anywhere from 109 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:35.279 seven to fifteen minutes usually, and I just do it 110 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:39.800 on a rolling basis, all by appointment, day in, day out, 111 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:44.319 and eventually grew to have a very good reputation as 112 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:49.480 a result. It's a key niche service and it fits 113 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.120 in really well in the area that I service, which 114 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:52.959 is northern Virginia. 115 00:06:54.720 --> 00:07:00.160 So two things there. One, you mentioned no skills from 116 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:02.879 your other career, and you know, knowing a bunch of 117 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:04.360 guys that do this, one of the things that I've 118 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.759 realized is for most of them, it's a second job, right, 119 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.800 It's a side hustle. It's something they do or supplement 120 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:15.079 their income. That's theirs. And one if you could speak 121 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.360 to that a little bit. And then two right, we're 122 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:19.519 going to talk about a lot of the you know, 123 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:23.319 the legislative issues you know that have cropped up in 124 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.639 this business. Why you're exiting it, and so bears mentioning 125 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.399 what are your customers like and are those the same 126 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.120 customers who tend to do bad things with firearms? 127 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:42.360 Yes, so great point. So my customers are generally mid 128 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:48.600 to high income professionals. There are very few, let's just say, 129 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.800 troublemakers that make their way in and now, now why 130 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:58.600 is that, Well, it's because I guess partly the kinds 131 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:00.240 of people who are going to look for or a 132 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.639 home base FFEL in the first place, or maybe a 133 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:05.399 little bit more savvy about how guns even work, meaning 134 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:09.160 like the gun buying process even works. Whereas if you 135 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:11.439 have a brick and mortar store that's open to the public, 136 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:13.879 it's open to foot traffic, kind of any person can 137 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:15.879 just kind of wander in and say, oh, it's a 138 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:17.720 gun store. This is where I go to buy guns. 139 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:23.160 All my services are done by appointment only. Nobody is 140 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.319 ever welcome to just show up and walk in. So 141 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.240 I do have people. I have had people kind of 142 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:32.279 randomly show up thinking it's a gun store. And I 143 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:34.480 guess the fact that this is a single family home 144 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:37.919 in a quiet suburban neighborhood was not enough of a 145 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:40.159 hint that hey, this is not like a gun store 146 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:44.320 in that sense. But you know, there's ways around that. 147 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.919 You just kind of clearly list your business as FFL 148 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:51.080 services by appointment, don't call yourself a gun store, and 149 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:53.919 that kind of helps weed out the riff raff. But no, 150 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.360 all my customers, out of all of them, just to 151 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:00.879 give an idea the scale of the business of the 152 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:07.200 business that I do. I've had I've done transfers for 153 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:10.679 eight five hundred items over the past five to six years. 154 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:13.960 I've had maybe four thousand unique customers, so a lot 155 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:18.960 of repeat customers, but maybe four thousand unique individuals. And 156 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:22.120 I would say, if I had a kind of just guess, 157 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.720 I would say, ninety nine percent of them are totally cool, 158 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.559 could not give me any kind of bad vibes whatsoever. 159 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.399 And it was all just business, maybe a little small talk, 160 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:34.320 and they just come in and out and don't give 161 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:41.399 me any trouble out of that very large volume of transfers. Okay, 162 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.320 what can possibly go wrong? Well, somebody could commit a 163 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:48.240 crime with the gun that you, the FFL dealer transferred, 164 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.399 and then there's a follow up investigation with the state police. 165 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.159 But that's usually very simple. They show up, they say, hey, 166 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.120 we need the records for this guy, the firearm transaction record, 167 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:02.159 which is the form you fill out when you do 168 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:06.039 a firearm transfer, and in the state of Virginia, we 169 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.720 have a separate form for the background check. So you 170 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:13.600 simply provide those and then they can subpoena you as 171 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.360 a witness if necessary. So to put it in perspective, 172 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.960 with all the transfers that I've done, I've had maybe 173 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:25.639 ten to fifteen where I subsequently had to provide records 174 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:29.399 to the police, and I've had zero, well, I've been subpoenaed, 175 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:31.799 but none of them ever panned out where I actually 176 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:33.519 had to show up in court, So I've had zero 177 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.879 court appearances as a result. And at least one of 178 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:40.639 my customers did kind of a high profile thing. I 179 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:44.360 guess he was driving around speeding and shooting at cops, 180 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.720 which is pretty bad, and he was eventually apprehended I 181 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:53.000 believe in prison now. But even there, I mean, it 182 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:55.000 was kind of open and shut. I never had to 183 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:58.639 deal with anything. I imagine it's a lot worse for 184 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.360 brick and mortar stores just with the way their business 185 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.000 is set up, They're going to have a lot more 186 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.080 random people walking in, a lot more troublemakers, and a 187 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:11.559 lot more issues now on the side hustle angle. So 188 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:17.679 that's where maybe I'm lucky right this area, and the 189 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:20.919 service I provide really is for people who have money 190 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:25.440 to spend, so I'm more likely to make sales, and 191 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.960 you know, frankly, you know, wealthy wealthy people are just better. 192 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.240 I mean, they're polite, they're not penny pinching. They're not gonna, 193 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:38.679 you know, say, oh, well, you know I could buy 194 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:40.840 this from you, but if I spend an extra two 195 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.279 hours researching, I could save eight dollars if I go 196 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:45.159 with this other business, right, you'll have a lot less 197 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:51.000 of that. And again, they're generally know how to carry themselves. 198 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:54.679 They're respectful, they respect your time and your business, and 199 00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:00.000 in return, I treat everybody very fairly. I'm very professional 200 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.360 and polite with everybody that I interact with, and I 201 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:06.120 think people appreciate that. You know, contrasted with a full 202 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:11.360 time brick and mortar gun business, where you know, there's 203 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.039 high costs, so the costs of the products are going 204 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:18.200 to be much higher when when you purchase them in store, 205 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.080 and then, like we covered earlier, the actual third party 206 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:25.000 transfer services they provide are not going to be as efficient. 207 00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:30.360 And again, you're not interacting with the owner who's put 208 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:34.840 his heart and soul into the business directly. You're interacting 209 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:38.360 with a wage employee who you know, and there's there's 210 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:42.279 going to be varying degrees of competence there when you 211 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.759 deal with me. You're dealing with me only there's nobody else. 212 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:47.919 I know every aspect of this business. I've done thousands 213 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.840 of transfers, uh, and you know, I've kind of dealt 214 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:54.360 with all kinds of clients, with all kinds of different PaperWorks. 215 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.759 So generally, I'm going to be quick to know, Okay, 216 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.200 here's what you need in order to get this transfer done. 217 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:06.960 So when I say that I bring some outside experience 218 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:10.320 into this, I mean that can be a lot of things, right, 219 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:12.440 I mean there's a lot of things that go into 220 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:18.159 being a truly effective home based FFL servicing maybe mid 221 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:27.159 to higher end clients. Communication skills, organizational skills, Understanding a 222 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:32.480 thing or two about things like cloud computing, website design, 223 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.960 inventory management, data science. Right, so if you want to 224 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.279 sell guns these days, and we'll get into this, I'm 225 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:44.000 sure you have to understand data science. And then beyond that, 226 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:47.360 there's just a certain way to present yourself. 227 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:48.200 Right. 228 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:53.799 Everything's neat, orderly clean, and it's quiet, it's one on one, 229 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:54.720 it's personal, and. 230 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:55.320 People like that. 231 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.519 People will even pay a little bit more for that 232 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:00.600 kind of experience than they would just going to a 233 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:01.159 gun store. 234 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.519 Well, and one of the things that you that you mentioned, 235 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:07.679 and we can we can speak on this briefly before 236 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.600 we get into the legislative angle, and we'll probably we'll 237 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.600 finally bring Carl back instead of just making him sit 238 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:15.480 in the podcast cup chair. 239 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:16.679 Uh. 240 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.360 But there's an interesting angle to which, you know, guys 241 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.480 like you, the sort of uh you know, middle level 242 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.360 right kind of small businessmen are being squeezed out right 243 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:35.320 by the firearms industry large. And obviously this certainly you know, 244 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:39.679 matters with proposed laws in Virginia massively expanding the sort 245 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.399 of law fair that can be uh you know, brought 246 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.360 to bear on guys like you, but also just on 247 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:49.679 the purchasing level right where everything has become very commoditized 248 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.480 and look like I'll be honest, I do this right. 249 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.320 If I'm looking for, you know, a certain item, I'm 250 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:58.080 smart enough to figure out what the UPC is, how 251 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.600 to look that up on Google and and you know, 252 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.960 find whoever's going to save me a marginal sixty cents. 253 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.240 Similar with you the FFL. And again there are you know, 254 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:10.960 large distributors. I'm sure you know them better than I do. 255 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.879 Who you know, because of economies of scale, can basically 256 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:19.799 win that game. Either you know, honestly or dishonestly. So 257 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:21.840 to what degree do you see there being sort of 258 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.240 a you know, high and low squeeze versus kind of 259 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:27.759 the mid sized businesses in that industry. 260 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:29.679 Yeah, great question. 261 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:32.480 So let's let's start with the top down, right. So 262 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:36.559 I don't know if this is in good faith or 263 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.559 in bad faith, but the gun industry, right, if we're 264 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.840 going to make an archetype, they're pretending like it's still 265 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:49.120 the year in nineteen ninety seven. And the the supply 266 00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:55.480 chain works as follows. We invest millions of dollars to 267 00:15:55.559 --> 00:16:02.240 develop these guns. We make bulk sales to hopefully just 268 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.200 the government and the military and the police, because they 269 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:08.399 have tons of money to spend and they're going to 270 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.799 put in large orders and that keeps things simple for us. Oh, 271 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.639 by the way, there's also we're also in America, so 272 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.320 there's also big civilian markets. Let's make some sales there 273 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.919 as well. And the way that works is there's gun stores. 274 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:25.240 There are stores that have an inventory, and they have employees, 275 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:28.720 and they have costs, and people go to the gun 276 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:32.080 store to buy the guns. Uh, and that's about it. 277 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.200 And so they'll that that's sort of how they how 278 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.440 they set up the whole paradigm, and now inherent in that, 279 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.519 you know, if that, if that really were the way 280 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:45.440 things work, and there is no such thing as you know, 281 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.639 online sales and people understanding what UPC codes are and 282 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.639 understanding how to use UH search aggregators that you know, 283 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:57.679 find the lowest possible retail deals on those UPC codes. 284 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:01.440 You know, if it really did work in the traditional set, well, 285 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:07.480 then it would make sense to just establish an MSRP 286 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:12.160 and then what's called a minimum advertised price, which is 287 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.039 we the manufacturer will ban you and cut you off 288 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:22.319 from the wholesale distributors if you list any deal be 289 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:27.440 below this magic number for this product, okay. And the 290 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.119 ostensible reason for that is, well, we're trying to protect 291 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:32.839 the brick and mortar businesses. They have costs, they've made 292 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.920 investments to be a gun store, and it would be 293 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.839 it would be uncool of us to allow people to just, 294 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.519 you know, when all said and done, make a net 295 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.599 profit of eight dollars per item, but make the most 296 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.079 sales as a result and take advantage of that economy 297 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:53.200 of scale. So to put that in simple terms, the 298 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.559 industry is saying, hey, you know, we set these minimum 299 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:02.519 advertised prices and you can only list at this price, 300 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.000 and it's kind of expected that you should keep an inventory, right. 301 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.519 They really pushed that, like keep an inventory, the more 302 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.240 you buy, the more you save, etc. Well, here's the 303 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.640 problem with that. Here's what happens when you, as a 304 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:16.160 home based FFL dealer or even a brick and mortar 305 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:18.920 gun store, try to keep an inventory. You're going to 306 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.720 spend tens of thousands of dollars on that inventory, and 307 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.640 then you're gonna sit on it and eventually sell it 308 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:29.039 at a loss. Now why is that. It's because it's 309 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.440 a game of whack a mole. Right, there's going to 310 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:34.839 be these small warehouse operations that crop up all over 311 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.720 the place, and they'll sneak in the products at a 312 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.920 lower price closer to what they're willing to make that's 313 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:47.480 under the minimum advertised pricing policy. Okay, now, once you're 314 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:53.799 on their radar. There's these software companies that I'm sure 315 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.680 approach the gun industry as consultants and they say, hey, 316 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.039 you know, there's all these dealers trying to list your 317 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.440 products below your policy, and our web crawlers scan for 318 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:09.640 these websites and these deals and flag them so that 319 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.519 you can keep these policies in place. And once you're 320 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.759 on that radar, you'll start getting these threatening emails if 321 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:22.599 you ever list anything below what's called MAP minimum advertised price. 322 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:28.920 So from the top, it's let's recap, right, Okay, you 323 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.839 want to be a gun dealer, great stock an inventory, 324 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.480 because any legitimate gun dealer would stock an inventory. 325 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:35.160 Why wouldn't you? 326 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.759 And also, don't you dare ever list anything below this price? Now, 327 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:45.400 here's what's unfair about that. When industry sells to wholesalers 328 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:47.720 and they make their bulk sales, they've already made their money, 329 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.440 so the transaction is complete now as far as they're concerned. 330 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:59.480 But when you buy guns as a dealer from a wholesaler, 331 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.519 there's still those manufacturers are still trying to control that 332 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.799 relationship with your customers and dictate to you what price 333 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:11.240 they're selling it at. Now again they're saying it's because, well, 334 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.839 we need to protect small businesses that have costs and 335 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.400 you can't undercut them. But here's the problem with that. 336 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.599 First of all, the margins are insane, right like, and 337 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.400 I'm going to pick on sig Sour. The most aggressive 338 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:30.680 MAP policy enforcers. It's like, I don't know for sure 339 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.480 how big the margin is from you know, manufacturing cost 340 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:39.640 a wholesale price, but wholesale to minimum advertise retail price 341 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.920 is like four or five hundred dollars. Now, what's the 342 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:46.119 service that's really being provided. Well, you're doing paperwork for people, 343 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.400 you're keeping an inventory, and you're selling the gun. So 344 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:53.680 it's completely unreasonable. And I suspect it's because they want 345 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:58.359 the downstream prices to remain high for two reasons. One, 346 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.599 I guess it helps their book so it helps it 347 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.799 helps them value their like their future production in like 348 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:13.039 you know, quarterly projections with shareholders. Or maybe it's having 349 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:19.039 your price, having your products priced highly maybe raises your 350 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.599 your profile with the public, makes you come across more 351 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:22.599 like a premium brand. 352 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:23.599 You know. 353 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:25.680 I'm sure those things come into play. But at the 354 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.000 end of the day, when when you're trying to be 355 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.160 a home based FFL dealer, you need to keep those 356 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.759 overhead costs low. You don't want to sit on an 357 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:38.079 inventory you don't want to buy you know, ten sig mpx's. 358 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.599 And then see all these other retailers who are under 359 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:46.319 the WebCrawler radar and you know, maybe selling them for 360 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:50.839 like thirty fifty sixty dollars on top. You know, you're 361 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.960 never going to make a sale because everyone's going to know, 362 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.720 actually we could get it for a lot less than you. 363 00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:59.519 So you're stuck listing these expensive products at a very 364 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:03.079 high price, and you have to somehow thread that needle. 365 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:05.160 You have to communicate to people, well, actually we could 366 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.359 sell it for lower, but I can't tell you how 367 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.160 much until you reach out to me. Average online customer 368 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.640 isn't gonna bother. They're just gonna click somewhere else and 369 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:15.160 uh and buy somewhere else. So that would be the 370 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:19.440 top down squeeze uh. And then you know, from from 371 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.759 the other end, a lot of a lot of the 372 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:29.200 younger generation, I suspect, you know, they understand like you said, 373 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:31.920 they understand UPC codes, they know how to search gun 374 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.920 dot deals, they know how to find deals posted on Reddit. 375 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.839 They're maybe under the radar. And actually there's a retailers 376 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.119 who gained that system. They'll sell guns at a huge loss, 377 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:46.319 specifically just to build up their profile. And you know 378 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.319 they'll call it like an advertising cost. And then so 379 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.720 people on social media, let's say Reddit, they'll see those deals, 380 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.400 and then once that deal occurs, they will never buy 381 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.039 that same product, even at a price where you could 382 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:06.279 even make a slight profit, because it just it's been ingrained. Hey, 383 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:08.880 these things can sell for this low, why would you 384 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:12.400 ever pay a penny more? And we're talking under dealer cost. 385 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:18.400 So really the only way to have a viable business 386 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.079 model is the transfer services at the end of the day. 387 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:26.720 Now these are generalizations. You know, not all manufacturers are 388 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.079 the same. Some are more reasonable than others, and a 389 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:33.440 lot of times the margins will balance out in a 390 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.200 way that the price that you sell it at is 391 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.079 still very reasonable when you take into account that you're 392 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:42.799 also doing the transfer for free as part of the sale. 393 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.880 And that's sort of where it lands. But if you 394 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:51.440 try to open up a gun business, you will fail. Okay, 395 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:54.319 unless you have and this doesn't apply to people with 396 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.880 millions of dollars of investment backing. This doesn't apply to 397 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:01.519 people who already have some kind of major operations going on. 398 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:06.480 But if you're just a small time business person, unless 399 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.599 you have a range where you know, if you unless 400 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:11.400 you have some kind of other service that you bro 401 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:14.519