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Speaker 1: And that's why I never read the comment. I just

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want to like, I'm not even going to look amazing tonight.

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I love what you're wearing. Oh my god, we're all

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I have an angry clown. That is life. But that's

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a hard like unless it's like an NBA team or.

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Speaker 2: Something like WHOA, hello, everybody. Welcome back to Holly Randall Unfiltered.

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So today's guest grew up inside a community that called

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itself sexually Liberated, and later learned it was a sex cult.

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That experience shaped how she understands consent, power and the

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damage caused when people are taught about sex without education

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or accountability. She's now an erotic filmmaker, sex educator, and

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the founder of a feminist production company built around autonomy

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and the female gates. We're going to talk about porn literacy,

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sex education, and what happens when society leaves people to

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learn about intimacy from the internet alone. This is inco Winter.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that we could finally make this happen. I

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know it's been a long time in the making, totally.

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Should we start from the beginning? Sure, you want to

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tell me your story because it's it it's one hell story.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, and now I have to accept a but I mean, yeah,

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I grew up in a cult. I ended up there

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at four years old. My father had left. My mother

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thought it was like a temporary situation, and then you know,

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it became not temporary. In the beginning, it sort of

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was sold as this like liberated socialist experiment, and I think,

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like in the very beginning there was something socialist about

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it in the sense that like there wasn't any common

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there was only common property, there was no private property.

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Everybody owned all the clothes, all the things together, and

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so one of the I don't know what came first,

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but you know, the whole free sexuality was really tied

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in with like not owning any property, because relationships were

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seen as like property of people. But I mean, ultimately,

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the leader of Automune, I think he built this to

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live out his own desires and just sort of how

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he wanted to live life and how he wanted people

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to behave around him for him, and so it was

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basically I mean, he did refer to it as his

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like living art. So I mean, clearly he was very

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deliberate about shaping something in sort of his image.

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Speaker 1: I guess right, And so I.

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Speaker 3: Guess one of the main I think sort of. I mean,

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so there's different kinds of trauma that happened to us

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as children. One being separated from our parents. So you know,

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obviously the attachment trauma, no secure attachment, no figure that

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was there for us to take care for us to

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if there was anything that we needed to can I

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ask like how your mom?

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Speaker 2: Did your mom know anyone at this commune? Like how

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did she even come across it?

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Speaker 3: So she personally came across it through somebody who was there,

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like like a man that she met and sort of

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fell in love with. But one of the ways that they,

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I guess really made did marketing is they did theater

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in colleges around Europe. So they would have these like

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performance art pieces in college theaters and so kind of

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like college students would be enticed into joining right the commune,

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which at that time, you know, this is the seventies,

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so everybody's trying to be more liberated and like move

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away from like the repressiveness of the nineteen fifties, and

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so there's there's you know, if you look at it,

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there's a lot of like oh yeah, this may sense

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for the time, right right, And also, like you know,

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in the beginning, it didn't look like a cult, and

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I think a lot of people did join because they

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wanted sort of this. I mean, you know, people go

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to Burning Man, and I think that's the feeling that

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people had joining the cult, except that then you know,

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if Burning Man is a permanent camp, I don't know,

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it might be a cult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So you're four, yeah, and you're being raised by strangers.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I had substitute parents, but because attachment was considered

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bad also for children, like I was separated from those

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as well, like when I grew too attached, and that

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was true for everybody, like everybody was separated from their

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parents and then sort of separated from their other parents.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna get a lot of this from me because

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I have a child, and like the thought of like

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my daughter going through this like makes my skin role.

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Speaker 3: And this is like hard to hear for a lot

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of people that I think for parents it's.

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Speaker 1: Yeah harder, yeah, yeah, turned out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I did a lot of therapy, been in therapy

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for the past like thirty years.

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Speaker 1: What I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so when you become too attached to anyone, you

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get moved to another substitute parent, and.

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Speaker 3: Then there's times where you just don't have a substitute parent,

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so you just sort of exist in this space of

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I don't know, you had I mean, what do you

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call them, like people like that, not like teachers, but

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you know, teachers that are around for the free time part,

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not social workers, but you know, like you know, people

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that are sort of like hurting the whole group of children.

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Speaker 1: And so like nannies almost I don't know, like let's

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call it a kindergartener, right, Okay, I'm not.

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Speaker 3: It's like you know, but yeah, like people that were

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responsible for looking after the you know, we were separated

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in age groups, so our age group had people that

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looked after them during the day because you know, you

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have to do keep children from i don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, swallowing things, eating rats, and also like entertaining.

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Speaker 3: And I think like the thing that's sort of like

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interesting because with you know, okay, we talked about the attachment.

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One of the I guess I don't even want to

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say positive, but like, you know, like it was an

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artist cult really, and I think there wasn't religion, but

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art was religion. But so one of the things that

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I did grow up with was a lot of creativity

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and play, and like filmmaking started really early, and I

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feel like I'm sure that that impacted, you know, my

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creativity and my expression and my you know, the fact

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that I wanted to do well. I didn't really want

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to become a filmmaker, but accidentally did and.

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Speaker 1: Then it worked out right, right, right.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so that's a lot of the things we

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did as children was artsy stuff. And then so in

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the beginning, everything was like everybody's equal, and then a

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hierarchy was established, so Otomil was number one and his

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wife number two, and then like whatever three hundred and

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fifty seven.

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Speaker 1: Was that intentional, did you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, that was like that was sort of like,

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you know, from the oh we're all equal. Now it's

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like I'm the authoritarian leader and I'm number one, and

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I'm to be honest, I haven't really asked anybody like

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how did you just accept that from one day to

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the other, that's your child?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, but then so also for us children, that

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was also established too. So for us children instead of

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like being all sort of these like kids that play

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with each other and whatever. We are all in a

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hierarchy with each other. So whoever is above me can

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tell me what to do, and whoever is below me,

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I can tell them what to do, and I'm always right.

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So there's no real like interaction of friendship. I mean

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at least like so for I became like the adaptive child,

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and so I was usually higher in the hierarchy because

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I did what people told me to do, and so

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I feel like being in that position really didn't allow

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you to have friends because you were just trying to

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like be in the system. I know from people that

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were lower in the hierarchy, they had a little bit

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more room for friendships because they were like, I don't

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give a fuck. But obviously they were punished then for

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you know, yea being bad or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what kind of punishments do they They didn't, okay,

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So the most obvious punishment is to be in the

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lower in the hierarchy, So you didn't behave right and

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you're like lowered in the hierarchy.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes these things happened like in a group. So

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there was something called palava. So the hierarchy was made

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in groups, but sometimes in front of all the grown ups.

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So there's like two hundred like grown up sitting and

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you're like being punished in the middle and you're coming

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lower in the hierarchy. So it's like definitely very emotionally

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like stressful, which is why I behaved well. So I

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never in this situation.

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Speaker 1: To basically like publicly shamed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then like the other thing that I'm still not

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entirely clear, but clear the purpose. There was something called

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in German, it's called bill and SWNDA, which kind of

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translates to educational something. And so sometimes for punishment, you

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would be in this group of people, like it's kind

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of like the tension. You would get detention, but you

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would do stuff like learning how to mint socks or

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just like random things that somebody thought of that day

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that I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like writing like like lines, like doing

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what we call it standards.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and when we.

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Speaker 2: Were kids, you had to write on a chalk for

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like a hundred times like I will not be bad.

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Speaker 3: Exactly it was. And then like one time this thing

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was developed. It was called the black mark, and I

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know one like somebody actually drew us like black head,

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and so it's almost like the opposite of the star.

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The star is like when you're we didn't get stars,

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but like that, when you're bad, you get like the

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black mark. So that was also the thing.

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Speaker 2: Is it wild for you to like tell people this

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story now and hear it coming out of your own mouth.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like myself, I'm just like I think

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some of the times my laughter is just like I'm

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so cringed.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how else to Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's it's because I mean, at the time,

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it must have felt. I mean, I don't know if

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normal is the right word. Normality's relative, right, Like whatever

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we grew up with is what we eat, is what's

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normal to us. And then like, now that you've had

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the therapy, now that you live in the real world

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and you're telling people this story, it must be hard

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to hear it coming from yourself because and.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I think also it's like I'm cringing, and then

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sometimes I feel like the stuff is really heavy. So

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I feel like my laughter is also like making it

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okay for other people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're it, yeah, yeah, I mean that's how we

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deal with a lot of painful things is through laughter, right, Yeah,

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don't worry I am not taking your laughter for you

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thinking it's actually funny because it's like crazy.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, like abandonment by parents, hierarchy, so you know,

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all the regulation between relationships, and then sort of the

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sexualization of children. So the called itself was sort of

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they called it free sexuality, which I think back in

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the day that was you know, the thing free love exactly,

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but in this case, like free love was like you

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had to sleep with everybody, you know, like this is

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at it was like communicating how sex was supposed to

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be had. So sex was mandated. So there's just nothing

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like free about it, even though that was sort of

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the the name for it, you know, which obviously took

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me a while to figure out that like the irony

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of the labeling. But so I think I haven't even

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read or not in a long time, like all these

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like there's sort of manifestos that Auto wrote that sort

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of like sum our books, and some are these schemas

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where you sort of have like this is how a

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child should grow up and this is important and these

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values are important, and so like part of that was

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like sexual expression where you kind of like that's sort

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of not a child. It doesn't because belong in this category,

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right right, you know, yeah, And so I think there

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was like different kind of sexualization for different age groups. Obviously,

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Like in the end, Ottomile got arrested for sex with minors,

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so he started having sex with girls that were sort

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of like twelve. You know. There was also some younger

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there incidents and its own like thing, but like, so

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that happened, and then the same so the sort of

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the first night, the right to the first night thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, yes, from I don't you remember from Brave Heart,

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oh Mortem, Knock Torn or.

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Speaker 3: Something like that, and so like he would do that

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and then his like wife would do that with the boys,

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so you know, and then at some point, like it

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was decided that the these that age group teenagers or

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whatever you would call this age group is then integrated

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in the grown up sexuality, which you know is also

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just the legal yeah, but I mean in his mind

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it just was like, oh, even like when he was

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when he was arrested and in his trials, he's like, oh, yeah,

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but some African tribes it's normal there, and you know,

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therefore it should be normal and you know, just bullshit

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stuff obviously, and then like for us younger like I think,

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first of all, we were just exposed to sexuality in

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a way that we really like wasn't age appropriate at all,

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like seeing things and then sort of also being I

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guess like at a younger age, you're you're indoctrinated, not

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through like penetrative like naked sex, but through like you know,

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touch and other things that sort of you know, like

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like like acting sex.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's playing like playing doctor.

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Speaker 3: No, more like touching. Okay, kissing, but like under the

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guided by grown ups.

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Speaker 2: Okay, oh wow, you know yeah okay, so yeah, okay, okay,

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So he would have he or his wife deputing on

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the gender would be the first like sexual experience and

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sound how old are these kids?

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Speaker 1: Like twelve?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, so like fourteen or you know.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't like it wasn't like a specific age. It

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wasn't like you turn this age.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think it was like no, no, no, It

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wasn't like whenever it was like ready, yeah, it was

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more like, oh yeah, we can reference. Did we just

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read something about I think Trump supposedly looking at girls

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and estimating how their ripeness is or something sounds like

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something something I just read I think with the epscene

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files it was more like that.

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Speaker 1: It was like she exactly like okay, like I've I've

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decided that this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you look, you look right, you look ready for me,

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like I'm wow, So did that happen to you?

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Speaker 3: I was twelve when it ended, so I escaped this

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wow thing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that must But did you know that that was

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coming and was for you?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's so weird because I didn't know that

286
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I was coming. At some point, I did hear somebody

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older tell me that she had sex with automule. And

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the problem in that sort of like closed system is

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now it it's also prestigious, right, So there was even

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some grown up women.

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Speaker 1: That were jealous of girls.

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Speaker 3: Having sex without a muir because it gave them like prestige, right,

293
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and so like it's just so this very convoluted thing,

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which is also why I think for some at that time,

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like as somebody that age, how would you know that

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this is wrong?

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Speaker 1: Right of course?

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Speaker 3: And also you're battling this, you know obviously like you

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don't like it, and there's different reactions from different people,

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but also like now you're being seen as like more important,

301
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like you know, it's a lot of stuff going on

302
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at the same time. That's getting really like complicated emotions.

303
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Speaker 2: Like, okay, so, like the Commune is assigning value to

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you because you've had this sexual experience with this man

305
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at a very inappropriate age, with a man significantly older

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than you.

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Speaker 1: Ork how old was he at this time?

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Speaker 3: So it was like when when the Commune started, he

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was already twenty years older than everybody, So I would say,

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like he was maybe in his forties while everybody was

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sort of in their twenties, and so then you know,

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just forties, fifties, whatever, Wow, older.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, So okay, so when the whole thing came

314
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crashing down, Yeah, what was that experience?

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Speaker 1: Like, like, was it raided by the police, like he

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was arrested.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what the context specifically was. I remember

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walking into like a kitchen and somebody being like like

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saying that he was arrested in me just being shocked

320
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and being just like why and obviously like brainwashed, right, So,

321
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like I don't know that anything that happened was wrong.

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I mean I don't at this point don't really know

323
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what happened specifically anyway, But I'm just kind of like,

324
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you know, I know, I'd known that there was like

325
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negative articles in the press, but obviously i'd been told that,

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you know, those are like wrong, like negative articles, they're

327
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just trying to hurt us, and we're so great, So

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you know, I believe this. I'm twelve years old, and

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so I'm just sort of like my world just ended,

330
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like I don't know, like I thought I would live

331
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there forever and be part of the system, and now

332
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I'm just like, I don't even know. So that was

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definitely a very surreal like experience of everything that you

334
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knew is no longer.

335
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Speaker 1: Right, you know, So then what happened to you?

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Speaker 3: So I then moved. My mother lived in Berlin. I

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moved to Berlin, and I actually went to a boarding school.

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There was sort of this liberal arts boarding school on

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an island in a lake in Berlin, because Berlin has

340
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lakes and islands. Uh huh there's a boarding school in

341
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one of them. Wow, I know. And like in the

342
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beginning it was kind of like I didn't like, you know,

343
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like not being with my mom. But in the end,

344
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I'm like, I think that was a really really good

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experience for me, and also in a way I think

346
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less shocking, like because it was sort of this you know,

347
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there was nature, it was an island, it was art.

348
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I think it was a little bit less shocking than

349
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if I had just lived in a city and like

350
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taken the train to school every day with like people

351
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that sort of are not you know. I feel like

352
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the people that went to that boarding school were just

353
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sort of more in line with you know, where I it's.

354
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Speaker 1: The values that like I was supposed to have.

355
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Speaker 2: The good ones say yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean because obviously,

356
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like it sounds like a terrible experience and I can't

357
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even imagine. But I mean there's no denying that there

358
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was great like art and creativity there and yeah, yeah,

359
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at least that in itself.

360
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Speaker 3: And it's like, as I'm talking, like I'm kind of

361
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like just thinking, for like people that are listening, you know,

362
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the conclusion that is being made about people in porn

363
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is like they all had trauma and that's why. And

364
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I'm just like, oh my god, people are going to

365
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listen and be like, ah, yeah, now she's another victim

366
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by making porn because she was a victim, so anyway,

367
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we'll have to address that.

368
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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's well, I mean the thing that I

369
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always say is.

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Speaker 2: And I've had so many people on who have had

371
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very normal quote unquote childhoods. I had a very normal

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even though my parents worked imporn. I just write super

373
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normal childhood. And I don't have any trauma from my background.

374
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I'm so like, and the older I've gotten and the

375
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more people I've spoken to, like, I realized how fortunate

376
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I am for that. But I think that, like everybody

377
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has trauma in their lives, like completely many people, I

378
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:35,079
completely in my genre, every industry. But like you're not

379
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,240
going to interview a dentist and be like, oh, you

380
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:40,359
got a dentistry because you had trauma in your life, right.

381
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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like it doesn't come up.

382
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't come up even though they you know.

383
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And also, like if you think about women, you know,

384
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what is it one in three women experience of sode

385
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of sexual traumas. I mean obviously, yes, you'll throw a

386
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stone and you will hit five.

387
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Speaker 1: This is true.

388
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Speaker 2: So I mean, did your mother have any idea what

389
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,200
was going on until after what that happened, and you

390
00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:08,000
feel about that?

391
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we only recently kind of had like this really

392
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deep conversation. I think she's sort of really definitely had

393
00:21:16,519 --> 00:21:20,279
like guilt to deal with, and only recently I think

394
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,720
the depths of all of it, you know, came up

395
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and it was really hard for her to hear. Yeah,

396
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:31,359
there are definitely tears and things.

397
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but do you think that she's come to forgive herself.

398
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Speaker 3: I think so. I think that like the last two

399
00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:44,079
years or three years, so funny story twenty twenty two.

400
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,839
Summer of twenty twenty two, there was like, so there's

401
00:21:46,839 --> 00:21:51,920
this legal entity that still exists that sort of anyway,

402
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:55,240
everybody in there is basically somebody who's been the cult.

403
00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:57,680
In the property that used to be the cult, like

404
00:21:57,839 --> 00:22:01,119
is still owned by people that were in the colt.

405
00:22:01,319 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: That are not a cult, but now they're like a

406
00:22:04,039 --> 00:22:06,119
different char it's called a corporation.

407
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,599
Speaker 3: But anyway, long story short, there was a bunch of artwork,

408
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,000
not just stuff that Ottomil created, but Ottomil was part

409
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of this thing called Vienna Actionism, so he was actually

410
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a famous artist along with these other people that sort

411
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of Austria looks to it as this like post war

412
00:22:24,799 --> 00:22:29,799
like you know, anyway, it's it's very precious to Austrian people.

413
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,519
But anyway, so there was like this artwork that still

414
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:38,759
was owned by this let's call it legal entity that

415
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,519
was sold that gave like it made like ten million euros,

416
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,680
and we our generation. I'm not really sure who started it,

417
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,559
but people were like, we should have this as reparations.

418
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And so starting from twenty twenty two summer, me and

419
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:57,039
a handful of other people like in the name of

420
00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:59,880
like everybody our age started to work on this reparation

421
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:02,480
and talking to Lawy's it was like a whole thing.

422
00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:04,400
I can't even really go into it because it was

423
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,720
really like exhausting and traumatizing in so many tears, and

424
00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:09,599
because now you know, we have to talk to the

425
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,440
people who were in the cult, and some of them

426
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,240
are super supportive and are like, yeah, what happened is crazy,

427
00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:17,599
and you know, and some people are like, oh, what

428
00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:21,160
was it really that bad? So anyway, it was, you know,

429
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:25,200
But I think that for me that was sort of

430
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,359
the time where I was like, I'm setting up to

431
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,200
these people and I hadn't really like talked to my

432
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,319
mom yet, and I was like, Okay, like I need

433
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,000
to have this conversation. And so we really did a

434
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,279
lot of work and we went to therapy together, and

435
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,440
I feel like it's like done so much, and I, yeah,

436
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:46,400
I feel like I really can't ask for more from

437
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:47,440
my mom at this point.

438
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 2: So how do you contextualize that experience today without letting

439
00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:54,640
it define you? I mean, I know you've had a

440
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,720
lot of therapy, but yeah, you know, there's obviously I think,

441
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,119
you know, like sort of the abandment and stuff that

442
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,720
sort of shows up in relationships still that you know,

443
00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:06,799
I'm still working on.

444
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, the interesting thing is, you know,

445
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,680
when I started making porn for women, like I made

446
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:17,720
it out of like I actually had an abortion, I

447
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:19,839
lost my sex drive. I was looking at things, I

448
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,400
was like, I can't find anything. Nothing is there that

449
00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:26,440
like turns me on. Like I felt like there wasn't

450
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,799
anything that's like, you know, central and sort of like

451
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,559
visually stunning and just you know, kind of like speaks

452
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:35,079
to me. And that's really why I started making porn,

453
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,359
you know, long story short. And in the beginning, I

454
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,200
was like, Okay, I'm doing this in spite of my childhood.

455
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:46,519
And now I feel like, you know, the fact that

456
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:49,720
I'm making like feminist porn, I'm putting like, you know,

457
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:57,160
women's pleasure first, I'm doing scenarios that you know, like

458
00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:59,359
let's say a man is washing the dishes and that

459
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,960
could lead to sex, you know, like which is you know,

460
00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:04,960
something that like for the malegates would probably not be

461
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:05,759
that interesting.

462
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: Have you seen those books porn for women?

463
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:09,799
Speaker 3: No?

464
00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: Oh you have it? Oh, I should get that for you.

465
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:17,119
It's all hot men doing housework. Yeah, I need literally exactly.

466
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:17,839
So that's what it is.

467
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: That's not all that I'm doing. But I'm just a

468
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:23,240
really good example of like something that wouldn't be made for.

469
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:23,839
Speaker 1: The mail games.

470
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,279
Speaker 3: Right right, I'm doing this and I was like, okay,

471
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:30,079
there's nothing there. I want to do this for myself.

472
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,880
And I'm like, okay, I'm doing this in spite of

473
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,240
like what happened to me. And more and more I'm realizing, well,

474
00:25:35,319 --> 00:25:38,799
society that we live in is not that different from

475
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:41,160
the cult that I grew up. The cult that I

476
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,880
grew up was some sort of like extreme form of

477
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,880
that and the pagiarchy, and you know, like legislating house

478
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,079
sex is supposed to be had. But we are currently

479
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,279
also as a society living in a cult where we

480
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:58,559
are being legislated, especially women, of like how we should

481
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,880
behave abortion and this and that so many things. You know,

482
00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:05,440
age verification is part of the whole thing. And so

483
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,279
I feel like my making feminist porn for me is

484
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,480
kind of my form of social activism. And it's also

485
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:18,480
kind of like a way of like liberating that you know,

486
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:24,200
experience where I felt like I was, you know, in

487
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,240
a way made to be like to shut up and

488
00:26:27,319 --> 00:26:34,480
to not have a voice about anything that pertained to myself.

489
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:38,319
Obviously also sexuality, but much more than that. And so

490
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,359
I feel like, in a way, making feminist porn is

491
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,599
me also processing my childhood and society at large.

492
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a really good take on it. So

493
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,279
you I mean, you talk about porn literacy, obviously, what

494
00:26:55,319 --> 00:26:58,720
does that mean to you? And because there's gonna be

495
00:26:58,759 --> 00:26:59,960
a lot of people that are gonna hear that term

496
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:02,720
and they're gonna be like, they're gonna have no idea

497
00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:03,599
what we're talking about.

498
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 3: Like, porn literacy means understanding what porn is, what the

499
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,680
purposes of porn, what the different kinds of are of porn,

500
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,480
and mainly that porn is a fantasy. And you know,

501
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,960
I have taken it upon myself to create more like

502
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:26,960
real life sex that is like you know more. When

503
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,960
I talk to talent, I asked them to do like

504
00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:32,920
at home sex versus like performative sex. But a lot

505
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,920
of porn is performance because it's a fantasy that is

506
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,640
fulfilling something you know other than real life. You know,

507
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,480
it's movies or things that you know not necessarily happen

508
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:49,599
in real life. But yeah, porn literacy is like it

509
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,119
is the only way that we can create context for

510
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:55,599
porn and understand porn and the purpose of porn and

511
00:27:55,759 --> 00:28:00,160
watch it with knowledge about what we're seeing. Because I

512
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,720
think that the lack of porn literacy is that, you know,

513
00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:08,079
the lack of sex education, which sort of goes hand

514
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,519
in hand with porn literacy, because if you if people

515
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:13,920
understood what sex is supposed to look like between two

516
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:17,160
consenting adults, and that by that, I don't mean like

517
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,640
what is specifically done, but like that consent is to

518
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,559
be asked. That you know, people are different from each other, people,

519
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:28,200
different people like different things. If you have that knowledge

520
00:28:28,599 --> 00:28:30,839
and then and then you know porn is a fantasy,

521
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,880
then you can watch porn and not get your values

522
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,279
from porn and not use porn as an education because

523
00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:43,960
you know it's not real. But the risk of sort

524
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,319
of like porn influencing people's ideas of sex is only

525
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:52,799
because they don't know what to measure it against. Yeah,

526
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,039
and that's because they're not educated and so like one

527
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:58,240
of the things. And that's what I you know, ask

528
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:00,880
David lay about is you know, like, are there any

529
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,359
studies that sort of show sort of the influence of

530
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,359
porn on people, And he was saying that it's basically

531
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,880
good studies have shown that people that do not know

532
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:17,319
that porn isn't real that mostly come from conservative households

533
00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:19,440
that don't have a lot of sex education or that

534
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:22,160
don't have grown ups that they can sort of talk

535
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,440
to about sex. Those are the people that are being

536
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:30,279
influenced by stereotypes in porn because they don't know that

537
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:31,039
it's not real.

538
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,079
Speaker 2: What are some of the most common misconceptions about sex

539
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,279
or bodies that you see stemming from porn without context.

540
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:41,039
Speaker 3: I think that some porn still has, you know, questionable

541
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:46,920
gender roles. I think that some positions or things are

542
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,279
not always pleasurable to the people that are performing.

543
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:54,279
Speaker 2: Them, like pile driver, Yeah, I mean, like you know,

544
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,440
and wild positions there like yeah, or like.

545
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:01,079
Speaker 3: Oh, let's have this two women at sex and then

546
00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:05,640
she orgasms, you know, like probably not did she have

547
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,319
any sort of sensation during that time? We don't actually know,

548
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,440
you know, but she pretended.

549
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,599
Speaker 1: That there was because it's an acting.

550
00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: So I think sort of like what women need to

551
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,240
actually experience pleasure is just sort of not to be

552
00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:26,880
learned from porn because it's a performance. And that doesn't

553
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,039
mean that some porn doesn't show that. And obviously the

554
00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:31,680
porn that I do like is very you know, but

555
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,599
also mainstream porn some there's a lot of people like

556
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,960
women that experience real orgasms, but you know, statistically speaking,

557
00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:44,079
how many times when when is it happening? What is

558
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:47,359
totally fake? Like don't the viewer doesn't know? What?

559
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,599
Speaker 2: Do you wish that people were taught about sex before

560
00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:50,599
they encountered porn.

561
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,599
Speaker 3: I mean mainly that it's a fantasy, and also that

562
00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:59,160
everything that's happening in porn, like I legit porn with

563
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,880
like the the real studios that make porn is negotiated

564
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:09,039
ahead of time. Talent was talking about this, so if

565
00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:13,680
there's a random thing that's happening, the talent both had

566
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,039
agreed to it ahead of time. So choking doesn't randomly happen.

567
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:21,359
It happened because somebody said, yes, I'm okay with that.

568
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,079
And so you can't watch porn and be like, oh,

569
00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:27,960
this is what women like and this is okay to

570
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,400
just do. It's like, no, I have to talk to

571
00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:35,400
my partner and find out if she likes that. And

572
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,680
I feel like, obviously, you know, make love not porn.

573
00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:40,359
I haven't seen the educational part on there in a

574
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,880
long time, but she used to have that there, sort

575
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,400
of like, oh, in porn, men come on women's faces

576
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,359
a lot. I would say, most women don't like that

577
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,359
most of the time.

578
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, it gets in our hair and they're going to

579
00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:55,319
wash it in your eyes, gets in your eyes. I

580
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:57,079
don't know if you've ever had come in your eyes,

581
00:31:57,119 --> 00:31:58,400
but it's the worst feeling.

582
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:03,079
Speaker 1: I have not but it's terrible coming. Let me just

583
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:04,480
tell you it hurts a lot.

584
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: I've seen it in people's eyes by accident and it

585
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,519
was not good.

586
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: But anyway, so there's just like.

587
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,799
Speaker 3: A lot of things you know like that that you

588
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:19,599
know it's it's it's made to show a fantasy that

589
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,240
somebody gets off on versus, oh, this is something that's

590
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:25,799
probably pleasurable at home.

591
00:32:26,359 --> 00:32:29,319
Speaker 2: Let's step back a little bit and talk about your

592
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,559
entry into actually making a directing point, because I know

593
00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:35,079
you were styling before, and we were talking about funny

594
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:38,599
story earlier that actually you had been to my place.

595
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: You'd met my mom before on a.

596
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: Deadpool commercial that was shot at at our ranch. But

597
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,000
then obviously from there on you take a different path.

598
00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: So how did that happen?

599
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I feel like I've kind of continued doing

600
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,599
some word work here and there because you know, like

601
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,599
we're all hustling. Yeah, and apparently the point that I

602
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,519
create is very niche. I wish it wasn't, but it's niche,

603
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:05,279
so you know, yeah, you guys should all watch it

604
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:07,279
so that it's less less nache.

605
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: And actually, even if you're I was just talking with

606
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,440
Jade Venus about this earlier because I was asking her

607
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,519
if she had any interest in directing. And even when

608
00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:18,119
you're directing for like the big companies, which I've done,

609
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,559
like you still don't get paid that much now, directors

610
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:22,960
are really not paid that much. And I think it

611
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,079
would be surprise people to hear.

612
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:28,519
Speaker 3: No, no, I agree, this industry is not as lucrative

613
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:32,160
for most people. Yeah, as you think oh, it was

614
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,279
in the eighties when it was just all like and

615
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:36,519
the internet was there, and you know you could upload

616
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:40,720
it picture pixeled image and make like a lot of

617
00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:45,920
fun anyway. Yeah, But so basically I was working as

618
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,799
a costume designer and I just like sort of, you know,

619
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,440
as I was looking for porn and not finding anything,

620
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:57,799
this why is there anything? Blah blah. This question just

621
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,200
sort of was there. And then like one day I

622
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,680
saw this GQ Spain video that was like, you know

623
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:07,960
when fifty Shades of Gray came out and made sort

624
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,840
of like BDSM a little bit more mainstream.

625
00:34:11,039 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.

626
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: And so there was this like like it wasn't even

627
00:34:18,039 --> 00:34:20,719
a bds M video, It's just like a very high

628
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,760
fashionateditorial video that had like a lot of leather shot

629
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,280
in slow motion. And I was like, Oh, that's what

630
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,480
I want porn to look like. And then I was like, oh,

631
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:33,639
I can make porn look like this because I know

632
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:37,960
the right people to do that. And then I made

633
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,079
this teaser with just like crew that I knew from

634
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:45,639
you know, being in this world, and I sent it

635
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:51,639
because we had shot at Kelly Collins location for another

636
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,280
feature film for a low budget feature film. So somehow

637
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,320
it got to her and that's when she was still

638
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,320
at Penthouse, and so she invited me and she wanted

639
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,760
to do like something together, which didn't work out because

640
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,840
you know, then Pentos went bankrupt and all these things happened.

641
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:09,199
But I was like my first sort of like talking

642
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:11,639
to somebody, And at that point I had wanted to

643
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,679
make basically softcore porn like movies, sex scene, just like elongated,

644
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,199
like pretty, but I hadn't thought of making explicit porn yet.

645
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,400
And so she was like, well, you know, if we

646
00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:25,679
like work together, there'd be a soft version and a

647
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:27,360
hard version. Would you be okay with that?

648
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: And I was just like okay.

649
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:35,119
Speaker 3: And I remember like walking out of that and calling

650
00:35:35,159 --> 00:35:39,320
my DP like cinematographer and being like I just agreed

651
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,639
to this, and then like asking women and being like, well,

652
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:45,719
I'm making porn for women, Like what do you think

653
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,000
And they're like, oh, well, if it's shot, well we

654
00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:49,239
want to see that. And I was like, well, the

655
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,760
whole point of re making porn is to shoot it. Well,

656
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,599
so like I guess explicit it is, yeah, And I

657
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:58,920
mean I guess the funnier story of like in the beginning,

658
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,039
I didn't even think I would be directing. And I

659
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:03,599
had this like female cinematographer who was a director that

660
00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:06,679
I wanted to shoot this teaser and she was no

661
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,679
longer available, and she like connected me with another cinematographer

662
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,400
and then I was like, but who's gonna direct it?

663
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,199
And she's like you, and I was like okay. And

664
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,280
that's really how I started directing.

665
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: For almost like a happy action because I.

666
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: Just kind of said okay, and then I said okay again.

667
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,199
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I feel like Ernie. Do you remember

668
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,199
was it Jim Powers?

669
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: It said that he started directing because he showed up

670
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,079
to a set and the director was so high that

671
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:35,119
he couldn't do the job, so he stepped in. Yeah,

672
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,639
so completely different person shoots the polar opposite.

673
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: Of what you do. But it sounds like you guys

674
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,559
almost like fell into it for like for the same reasons,

675
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:45,519
which is kind of funny. Okay, So what was the

676
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:47,239
first like porn that you ever shot?

677
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: The first time? Like I was trying to shoot porn.

678
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,199
But he didn't know anybody in this industry. I didn't

679
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:54,760
know any like performers or anything. And I always knew

680
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,880
that I wanted sex education to be part of what

681
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,880
I was doing, and so I was like, okay, sex

682
00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:02,719
education videos do That's easy when a later's actors, you know,

683
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,760
like you know, you find a couple of people, you

684
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,400
make this film like it's not a big deal. And

685
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,320
so I made that and it was like the first

686
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,960
thing that I've ever made is called Justges and it's

687
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,000
like a spoof commercial for semen, kind of like that

688
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:19,400
dead Pool thing that we did back then that was

689
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,920
like a viagraa inspired dead Pool thing. And then submitted

690
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,679
it to Dance Average Film Festival Hump and got in

691
00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:28,800
and then like I went to Portland and I was

692
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,119
part of this Facebook group back in the day when

693
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:33,760
you could say, you know, post naked photos on Facebook,

694
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,119
I mean in a private group. I it was like

695
00:37:38,199 --> 00:37:41,440
the you did in private groups. We had a whole

696
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,840
Facebook group where like everybody was posting naked photos of

697
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,880
themselves and it was like these burning men, like you know, exhibitionists,

698
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000
like polyamorous people. And so I went to Portland and

699
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:54,840
I met some of the people in the group and

700
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:57,840
I was like, you know, I had this educational film

701
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,679
and hump, but I was telling them what I actually

702
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,039
wanted to do, and so one of them was like,

703
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:04,920
I would shoot porn with you. And then she's like,

704
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,920
I'll be in La in January and my partner's there

705
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:11,840
and his girlfriend's there, and I was like, okay, let's

706
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,639
shoot for Oh my gosh.

707
00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:15,639
Speaker 1: So the first.

708
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,679
Speaker 3: Films that, the first five films that I made were

709
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:18,920
just like with real couples.

710
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: Oh wow. So they had never like really done porn themselves.

711
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 3: Nobody had done porn before. I mean, obviously they were

712
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,559
used to I feel like being they'd never been in

713
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:30,039
front of a camera, and I feel like for a

714
00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:31,519
lot a lot of them that was kind of a

715
00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:34,800
lot their dream. But they've just been like definitely in

716
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,480
like situations where publicly and you know, like group things

717
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,800
and things where they observing was part of the thing, right.

718
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,039
But so, yeah, they hadn't done porn. I hadn't done porn.

719
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: But I actually really really really liked that.

720
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,039
Speaker 3: That's how it started because I feel like I went

721
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:57,639
with the couples like connection and chemistry and all of that,

722
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,119
and I feel like it empowered me to then ask

723
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:10,920
the non performance from performers, because I was starting out

724
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,400
with couples that didn't perform they were just intimate with

725
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,480
each other and we were just observing, and so I

726
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:21,039
feel like that really worked out well for what I

727
00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:21,880
was trying to do.

728
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: Anyway, when people hear the phrase feminist porn, what do

729
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,440
they usually misunderstand? Because I feel like that phrase gets

730
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,719
thrown around. So does feminism too. Oh, Like the word

731
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,159
feminism itself can be completely different things to different people,

732
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,719
and I feel like it's almost lost its impact.

733
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I think some of the people

734
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,559
have like an issue with it. I think that feminism

735
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:47,559
means like man hating, right, and that like feminist porn

736
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:51,280
is probably like porn in which men are punished or something.

737
00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:55,960
I mean that could be aborn, you.

738
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,519
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I mean just I mean, like.

739
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: You know, porn is like as involve totally or there

740
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:07,079
could be beds m where the male is the submissive,

741
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,119
you know, but like that's punishing men is in feminism,

742
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Like feminism is about.

743
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,519
Speaker 1: Equality equal rights.

744
00:40:16,519 --> 00:40:21,159
Speaker 3: So that means women need more rights because they have less.

745
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,280
They don't need more rights because they have equal and

746
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,960
they want more rights than men. And the reason that

747
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,159
we're still like need feminism in this world is because

748
00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:34,400
we don't have equal rights. You know, you can see

749
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,320
that state by state women have different rights, men have

750
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,159
the same rights in all states. So therefore we can

751
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,000
know for a fact that women's rights are not equal,

752
00:40:45,639 --> 00:40:48,559
and that's why we still need feminism. And so for me,

753
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:55,880
feminist porn just means showing scenarios that women would enjoy,

754
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:01,239
that men can also enjoy, but that not all men

755
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,840
are going to like seek out where you're sort of like,

756
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:06,880
you know, there's some things where you're like, oh, yeah,

757
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,880
most men are going to be into this, and then

758
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,760
there's some things like as we talked about the chores

759
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:15,360
porn for women, whereas like, yeah, any woman that I've

760
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,719
ever spoken to finds that hot if the man does

761
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,559
something around the house, is we consider that foreplay? Now

762
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:26,039
that's like literally part of the conversation of foreplay. It's

763
00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:30,199
just something that's sort of like, yeah, it shows a

764
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,960
part of sexuality that is from a feel of perspective

765
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:40,559
that hasn't been shown before in male centric porn. So

766
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:45,920
in a way, even here it's more like equalizing versus

767
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,880
like we're punishing.

768
00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so when you think about making a scene,

769
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,920
right and you think about making it from the female gaze,

770
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,159
like what are some things that might make that scene

771
00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,360
specifically different than like what we would call mainstream porn.

772
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,039
Speaker 3: It's more like I make all the scenes that I make,

773
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:07,960
I create with the female talent, So that means that

774
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:12,239
some of the things could also mimic like poort that

775
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,280
we're used to because that specific woman is into that

776
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,920
specific thing. And I remember, actually, Galrichi in your podcast

777
00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:22,280
that clip where she's like, but what if we want

778
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,239
to be degraded? Right, And I'm like, yeah, if you

779
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,880
want to be degraded, you should totally be degraded because

780
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,880
you want that. But applying that to women that don't

781
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,880
enjoy that just doesn't work, you know. So I feel like,

782
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,199
in a way, most of the scenes that I make

783
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:46,719
aren't specifically like anything other than what that specific female

784
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,519
talent is into. And some things again talking about the

785
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,280
you know what, there's a couple of scenarios that I'm like, anyway,

786
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,639
the dishwashing comes to mind, the easiest that are just

787
00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:02,679
sort of like, Okay, we just know that wouldn't be

788
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,079
a thing in sort of male centric porn, But it

789
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:13,039
doesn't necessarily have to look different. It's more like it

790
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:17,119
feels different because it was authentic and like I also

791
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,519
ask all of the female talent who they want to

792
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:23,239
be paired with, so that there's already chemistry and connection

793
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,440
that doesn't have to be performed, but it's like authentically there.

794
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,360
And if there is sort of like BDSM or something

795
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,760
happening where like there's sort of like pain or whatever

796
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,480
submission involved, I will make it very clear that this

797
00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:45,480
particular talent wanted that. So either some sort of conversation

798
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,199
in the beginning or like something that is like, oh, yeah,

799
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,519
she wants this, and yes she agreed to that. I

800
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:56,599
can't just randomly do that. I need to ask.

801
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,599
Speaker 2: First, so you show like the full autonomy yeah the

802
00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:02,760
female Yeah yeah. Is there any like common thread that

803
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,119
you find is in all of your work or what

804
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:08,960
you would consider feminists born? Because a lot of what

805
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:14,599
people consider to be like what is what do women want?

806
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:16,679
The way I should put it better is that like

807
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:20,119
they're more inclined to want like a storyline like.

808
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: A why are we here? Why are we doing this?

809
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,519
Speaker 2: As it opposed to men tempt sometimes be and again

810
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:30,920
like not everybody you know, like there's.

811
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 3: Right, like it's it's not even like it doesn't have

812
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,480
to be a whole story that doesn't have to a

813
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,320
lot of my scenes don't have dialogue. But when I

814
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,199
also like I use the word storyline, But in the end,

815
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,679
it's context. There needs to be context for sex, and

816
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,199
I do think that most women want context, even if

817
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,039
the context is that they're being degraded. You know, like

818
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,840
it doesn't have to be romantic. You know, this sort

819
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,320
of idea that that porn for women is more romantic

820
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,639
can be true for people, but it doesn't have to.

821
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,559
I think that a lot of women enjoy being submissive

822
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:04,920
and BDSM. I think that's really a big part of

823
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,360
like female sexuality for many. So yeah, it's more like

824
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:15,119
context that isn't randomly because they happened to be in

825
00:45:15,199 --> 00:45:20,719
the same room, now they have sex because because the pizza,

826
00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:24,320
Yeah pizza, Like I showed up at the door, and

827
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,599
so now there's a man and a woman, and because

828
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:29,920
there's a man and a woman, that automatically leads to sex.

829
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,519
Speaker 2: Right, Like, Yeah, you also work as a sex educator

830
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:35,519
and counselor what patterns do you see that directly trace

831
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:37,320
back to poor sex education?

832
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of like the lack of empowerment,

833
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,840
and to be honest, I think that like both men

834
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,840
and women, you know, need better education. I think that

835
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,440
that obviously, our society kind of like gives men a

836
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,519
little bit more autonomy and agency in what sex they.

837
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,159
Speaker 1: Sort of are allowed to have or is sort of like.

838
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,679
Speaker 3: Legitimized, and so I think that also for a lot

839
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:14,719
of men, it's easier to orgasm just from penetration. So

840
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,079
I think the lack of sex education is sort of

841
00:46:18,159 --> 00:46:22,480
like we're not teaching about you know, communication and consent,

842
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:26,239
but also not about pleasure. So a lot of people

843
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,360
are out there not sure how to find that. And

844
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,559
also sort of if you buy into this, penis and

845
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:36,679
vagina sex needs to happen, and that's how orgasm happens,

846
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,679
being not having the agency to ask to use a

847
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,519
vibrator in addition to that, right, like it doesn't have

848
00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:46,880
to be we're not doing penis and vagina sex, but

849
00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:49,920
what can we add that there is an orgasm for

850
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,519
the female as well, And all of that is part

851
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:56,280
of sex education, is like you know, pleasure education or

852
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,480
like stuff like I had somebody who was like, Okay,

853
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,320
the guy wasn't using a condom, he didn't have a condom,

854
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,639
blah blah, and I was like, what if you buy condoms?

855
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:10,960
She's like, I am allowed to do that? And I'm like, yes,

856
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,119
you are allowed to have condoms on you and the

857
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,800
man that the man uses it if he didn't bring one.

858
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 1: Wow, yes, living in that world. Yeah, but that is

859
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,199
this world. This is that world. It's crazy. Yeah.

860
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just are in this like really like very

861
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,039
selected world where we're all like sort of have agency

862
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:37,039
and we're asking for things and so we kind of

863
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:40,119
forget that a lot of people don't live this way.

864
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,039
Speaker 1: Yeah.

865
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely true. What gives you hope about where sexuality,

866
00:47:45,079 --> 00:47:46,519
media and education are headed.

867
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that conversation is happening more. I

868
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:56,440
think that a lot of talent is taking it upon

869
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,840
themselves to do more sort of like speaking up. I

870
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:06,840
was actually just contacted by the uth University of something

871
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,960
in Ireland who is doing a study on porn literacy.

872
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:14,239
So like that gives me hope, and I think overall,

873
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,239
I am really really really happy that you know, like

874
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,280
OnlyFans on these platforms exist for talent to monetize their

875
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:27,000
own content, because that makes them less dependent on accepting

876
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:30,480
scenes that they're not interested in doing and kind of

877
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:35,320
creating their own like like having autonomy of what they're filming,

878
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,320
and so I feel like that also gives me hope

879
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:41,039
for the entire industry because hopefully, at some point, if

880
00:48:41,159 --> 00:48:43,880
studios are not needed the way, then they have to

881
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,639
kind of like be more okay, this is talent is

882
00:48:48,679 --> 00:48:50,239
no longer accepting certain things.

883
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: So I mean, I have to say, like, just from

884
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,559
experience of having been in the industry so long and

885
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:58,800
seeing how things have changed changed and being around it's

886
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,239
well before the only revolution, like there's been a dramatic

887
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,559
shift in the way that the studios treat talent.

888
00:49:04,639 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, genetic yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and there's always

889
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,719
like a room for improvement, of.

890
00:49:11,679 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 2: Course, So I mean, I definitely, you know, there were

891
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:19,480
times that I was admonished or even lost work because

892
00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:21,800
I refuse to push talent to do things that the

893
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,280
studios wanted me to do. The talent like demonstrated they

894
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,159
were uncomfortable with such things and I was not going

895
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:30,639
to make them do that, and I would, you know,

896
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:34,199
I just would. They're like, well, you're not getting us

897
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:37,239
what we want, and you know, we're not going to

898
00:49:37,559 --> 00:49:40,079
hire you anymore, and that this is what they're being

899
00:49:40,119 --> 00:49:44,079
paid to do. And that kind of thing. And yeah,

900
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:47,039
and now it's like, you know, I mean especially obviously

901
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,920
depends on the studio, but you know.

902
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 3: And on the director, Like all studios like really have

903
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,199
different directors, so within the studio there.

904
00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but I will say, like, you know, I

905
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,760
mean when I was still directing, towards the end of

906
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,760
my directing, I was only directed for what is now ALU.

907
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:06,360
But they were very adamant, like after you know, COVID

908
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,280
and they went through this whole like kind of house

909
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,440
cleaning of like directors and like completely changed the way

910
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,360
that they like structured things. And they were very, you know,

911
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,920
strongly supportive of making sure that every talent was comfortable

912
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,599
with what we were doing and that if there was

913
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:26,920
something they didn't like, that we would change the script.

914
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,159
And I remember like I would call Rachel was the

915
00:50:31,159 --> 00:50:32,719
one who was my boss, and I would call her

916
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,679
and I'd be like, hey, this person like doesn't want

917
00:50:34,679 --> 00:50:36,280
to do this or can't do this or something, and

918
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,320
she would be like that's fine, like we won't do it,

919
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,039
and she'd be like, make sure they understand that this

920
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:43,239
does not mean we're not going to hire them, Yeah, exactly,

921
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,039
Like please make sure that they understand that like they're

922
00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:50,639
not compromising their position with us, and that that is

923
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:54,800
one to eighty from like what I had experienced previously.

924
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:57,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean I actually work as an intimacy

925
00:50:57,159 --> 00:51:00,400
coordinator for Door Cells, So for Dozel, it's definitely this thing.

926
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,119
It's like, you know, there's a list of things, you say,

927
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,880
anything that you don't want, and then that's not happening

928
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,119
here at the end, Like there's no discussion. You know,

929
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:09,800
if you don't want to do it, you don't do it,

930
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,039
and that's it. Obviously. I think you know, we're in

931
00:51:14,199 --> 00:51:17,360
a world where you know, sex happens on screen, so

932
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,079
there's sort of like, okay, the expectation that maybe there's

933
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:22,320
kissing and penetration where sort.

934
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:25,079
Speaker 1: Of like you know, that's versally things.

935
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like anything beyond that is sort of like

936
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,880
you know, up to the person, you know, but like yeah,

937
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,519
there's like there's a minimum that. It's just funny because

938
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:36,760
like I talk to people that do intimacy coordination in

939
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,920
like mainstream film, and I'm like, it's a totally different expectation,

940
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,039
Like obviously you kind of have to negotiate kissing, whereas

941
00:51:43,079 --> 00:51:45,119
like you know, when you show up to a porn

942
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:47,800
set to have sex, you're kind of assuming you're going

943
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,199
to kiss somebody.

944
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: Though I have had talent tell me that they will.

945
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,320
I've heard that too because they have a boyfriend. And

946
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,320
then and that's too intimate.

947
00:51:56,079 --> 00:51:59,119
Speaker 3: Yes, And I've heard that ys, and then that's okay too,

948
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,880
and then that yeah, it's okay, you know, yeah, one

949
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,719
hundred percent. But I still definitely know that, Like I

950
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,719
know some you know, creators that do very well on

951
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,480
OnlyFans and whatnot, and they are saying to me, like,

952
00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:15,000
there's certain directors of studies I don't work with because

953
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,119
I don't like how they do things, and then they

954
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:19,800
have the power to do that, and somebody who's sort

955
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,719
of not at that point, they still have to kind

956
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,920
of you know. So I really am really loving that

957
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,559
sort of yeah side of it.

958
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 2: If someone is watching this and hasn't seen any of

959
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,119
your films.

960
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,679
Speaker 1: Where should they go?

961
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 2: What's the one scene, what's the one movie that they

962
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:35,719
should definitely check out?

963
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: Well, so four playfilms dot com is where you find

964
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:41,960
all my scenes. And I'm like, I have a hard

965
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,360
time sort of saying this or that because I feel

966
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,119
like they're all so different you know, I have sort

967
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:51,360
of like like like soft romantic things, some more like

968
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,079
BDSM heavy things, Like I directed something that's now on

969
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:57,599
my website as Shurt Manner. That's the sort of bridgitt

970
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,639
and inspired porn that I'm obviously like, really loving. I

971
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:05,239
still love the first scene that I ever shot, and

972
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,800
it's like in this, in this shower. It's a very

973
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,159
simple scene, but it just has all of this sort

974
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:14,840
of censuality that I wanted to, you know, do. But

975
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,760
then like you know, there's a scene where a guy

976
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,800
dressed in sort of like a wolf's costume is chasing

977
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,280
his wife through the forest in like a antler costume

978
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,400
and sort of like a primal fantasy that I also

979
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:29,920
think is really hot, so.

980
00:53:31,519 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: So hard, it's all over the place. Yeah, okay, all

981
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:34,840
my children.

982
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:37,519
Speaker 3: From all.

983
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: What gives you.

984
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 2: Hope for the future of adult I know we're facing

985
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,239
down a lot of yeah, difficult things at the moment,

986
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,400
but there is there a light at the end of

987
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,599
the tunnel. Do you see progress being made?

988
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,679
Speaker 3: It's so hard because I feel like I feel like

989
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,800
within our industry we're making progress, but then I feel

990
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,400
like legislation wise, we're going five steps back. So It's like,

991
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,559
it's kind of hard to be hopeful when you're not

992
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:08,760
sure if your entire business is actually going to survive.

993
00:54:09,039 --> 00:54:12,119
Speaker 2: You know, so, and you, I mean, I'm sure you're

994
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:14,280
dealing with the same problem that I am, because you

995
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,840
have your own website where now I mean, I've had

996
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,840
to install age verification on my website and I have

997
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,079
to pay for everybody who verifies their age.

998
00:54:24,159 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 3: So I am trying to figure this out, and I

999
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,440
don't know how, but there is a there's a sort

1000
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,000
of a do it yourself script that you have to

1001
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:33,840
install that you can install, but then.

1002
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:34,639
Speaker 1: It's like free.

1003
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: So I'm working on that. Hopefully I can make that work.

1004
00:54:39,639 --> 00:54:42,880
I also know that Free Speech Coalition just came out

1005
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,360
with an age verification tool that is very, very inexpensive.

1006
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,800
I don't know how inexpensive, but aliceson just told me

1007
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,400
about this, okay during expis Okay, so people are trying

1008
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:02,880
to make that more accessible. But yeah, so a lot

1009
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,800
of programming to in order to do all these things.

1010
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: And we could get into the age verification thing. That's

1011
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,360
a whole We've covered it quite a few times on

1012
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,920
this podcast. You can definitely find I'll say.

1013
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,079
Speaker 3: One thing that sort of connects all of this regulation

1014
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,800
age verification to the cult. And I think that regulation

1015
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,079
is obviously like, you know, there's age g verification, but

1016
00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:27,400
there's also then these books aren't allowed. You're not allowed

1017
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,559
to know about sex, Like really, that's what's going on, right,

1018
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:33,960
Like you're not allowed to know about gender stuff. You're

1019
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:39,199
not allowed to know about like LGBTQ stuff. You're only

1020
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,199
allowed to know about these few things that I give you,

1021
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,559
and then the parent is supposed to be in control

1022
00:55:45,639 --> 00:55:50,320
of what that is, right, And I think the preventing

1023
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,599
the education puts children in a position that makes them

1024
00:55:53,599 --> 00:55:57,639
really vulnerable, and it makes it like in the cult

1025
00:55:57,679 --> 00:56:00,199
that I grew up in, where the leader and the

1026
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,559
grown ups could tell me what was okay and wasn't okay,

1027
00:56:03,599 --> 00:56:07,000
and I had to believe them. It makes it just

1028
00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:11,599
so much easier for predators to have access to children

1029
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,559
if you don't allow them to be educated about sex,

1030
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:20,599
about boundaries, about autonomy. And I feel like that it's

1031
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,800
very suspicious that the people that are doing this kind

1032
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:30,039
of legislations are often to be found out to have,

1033
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:37,559
you know, histories of things that they're legislating against. And

1034
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:40,920
now you're finding out that that's what they're doing uncovering,

1035
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,800
and yeah, I think it's harmful. I think it's dangerous

1036
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,360
and we need to examine what the real reason is

1037
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,159
because it's not to protect children. It is to make

1038
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,000
children more vulnerable to predators. That's what's happening, and it's

1039
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,400
not okay.

1040
00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:01,159
Speaker 1: We're talking about like sex education.

1041
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:06,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, the lack of sex education, the forbidding of books

1042
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:10,320
about sex, the taking out of like anything that is

1043
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,840
you know, calling like you know, Project twenty twenty fives,

1044
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:20,280
like calling for librarians to be arrested. Basic right. That's

1045
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,320
telling me you don't want your children to have access

1046
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,440
to information because you want them to you want to

1047
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,760
control them. And that sounds like the cult that I

1048
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,719
grew up in. So like, I'm seeing that happening in

1049
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,320
our society now and it's dangerous.

1050
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: I agree with you so much on that, And I'm

1051
00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:42,840
like really big on like sex, you know, And I'm

1052
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,840
in those early days of trying to navie navigate sex

1053
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:50,679
education with my daughter age appropriate education because she's five,

1054
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,840
but she's old enough to start answering questions.

1055
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 3: And that sort of brings the whole thing back to

1056
00:57:56,079 --> 00:57:59,000
you know, pone literacy and sort of age verification where

1057
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,840
you're like, you, I don't want your children to know anything,

1058
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:05,599
and then you want to make it illegal for anybody

1059
00:58:05,639 --> 00:58:08,679
to watch porn instead of just educating them about what,

1060
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,440
you know, everything is and then they can make informed

1061
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,119
decisions at the appropriate age. But in the end, I

1062
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:20,320
feel like people are just outsourcing their own misery. Like

1063
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:24,199
you're not having good sex, you're miserable, you want to

1064
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:27,039
do stuff you don't want other people to do the

1065
00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:30,000
thing that you're not allowing yourself, so now everybody else

1066
00:58:30,039 --> 00:58:32,360
needs to be miserable. That's really what I believe is

1067
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,360
that they're outsourcing their misery onto everybody.

1068
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately, like I definitely understand, and you know,

1069
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,639
as a mother, like I don't want and there's again

1070
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:43,719
to be clear, there's no one in the porn industry

1071
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,880
that wants children to watch porn, but you can't, like

1072
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,360
you know, take these extreme measures against that and take

1073
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,599
away education at the same time.

1074
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does. That's insane.

1075
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't mean that we don't want age verification

1076
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,000
to happen, but it should be in a way that

1077
00:59:01,199 --> 00:59:03,519
isn't sort of like prohibitive.

1078
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:08,559
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, also there is parental controls. Can we

1079
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,760
just use that could please all parents prevent their children

1080
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,599
from watching porn on devices.

1081
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: The way that it's already possible.

1082
00:59:17,639 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: Right, we're not using any of the technology available, and

1083
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,320
we're not making parents responsible for the education or the

1084
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,559
sort of like how they want their children to interact

1085
00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:32,480
with the sort of material at all.

1086
00:59:33,039 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 2: It also like like we're not going to get into age.

1087
00:59:37,719 --> 00:59:39,760
But also like I mean, I think that you know

1088
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,559
a lot of people can agree with me, Like if

1089
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:44,679
there could be a way that we could make this

1090
00:59:44,719 --> 00:59:49,199
happen at a device level, like said, sixteen year old phone,

1091
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,199
do you have to your age of your device in

1092
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,320
order to unlock everything?

1093
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 3: Then then you know, and then it's sort of like,

1094
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,679
you know, it's not like porn and like because obviously

1095
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,480
now we're trying to do edge of verification for social media,

1096
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,679
and I'm also not against that as a concept, right,

1097
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,079
all of the age of verification ideas, like I agree with,

1098
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:12,880
but let's do it in a way that that adults

1099
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,039
don't have to put their ID into the internet. Let's

1100
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:21,079
have like whatever wallets things somewhere on the device it

1101
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,199
knows the age, and then anything that is, you know,

1102
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:28,039
needs to be accessed. That is like porn or social

1103
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:30,360
media or I don't know, there's probably other stuff that I.

1104
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: Mean that's age.

1105
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,239
Speaker 2: If you created an aide and across the board age

1106
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:39,519
verification gate that encompassed everything everything like you said, social media,

1107
01:00:39,639 --> 01:00:43,960
but also I mean guns, gambling, gambling, like all this

1108
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:49,280
extreme violent material. There's so many buying alcohol, there's so

1109
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:53,360
many other things. If those were all in this age gating,

1110
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,840
that would be different because people would not be so

1111
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,119
afraid of like, oh, okay, I have to show my

1112
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,159
D to be over the HD eighteen to be able

1113
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:04,960
to unlock this area of the Internet, because I could

1114
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,320
be wanting to buy a gun, I could be wanting

1115
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,239
to gamble like all these other things. So I feel

1116
01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:14,000
okay with that. It's it's the giving an ID to

1117
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,199
like an unknown entity, specifically for accessing porn, which so

1118
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,280
many people are so ashamed to admit that they want

1119
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:22,559
to watch.

1120
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,639
Speaker 1: And word, are you going to end up on some

1121
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:25,360
porn lists?

1122
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 3: You know? The whole what was the Madison whatever, the yes,

1123
01:01:30,679 --> 01:01:33,679
the cheating website, the cheating website, but then suddenly it

1124
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,559
was hacked and then there was a list of people

1125
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:38,360
are cheating now obviously we're worried that now there's going

1126
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,360
to be actual people Ashley Madison, there's like, you know,

1127
01:01:41,519 --> 01:01:43,320
we're there's going to be a list of like people

1128
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,840
watching porn. Like I feel like this country obviously having lists,

1129
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,159
you know back in the day with communism, like the

1130
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:56,280
lists and then judging people for the things that they're

1131
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,320
doing in their own private home, you.

1132
01:01:58,239 --> 01:02:03,199
Speaker 1: Know, absolutely. Okay, Well, so I get ourselves and.

1133
01:02:05,679 --> 01:02:07,679
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on. I'm so glad

1134
01:02:07,719 --> 01:02:10,280
that we finally get to make this happen. Can you

1135
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,960
let everybody know where they can find you online?

1136
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: Please?

1137
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:16,559
Speaker 3: It's www dot four playfilms dot com.

1138
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: And it's four play f O R E.

1139
01:02:18,679 --> 01:02:22,039
Speaker 2: It is actually without the E, but I oh right

1140
01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:23,360
because it's four play.

1141
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: Like place four.

1142
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a play on awards. But I do own

1143
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,280
both domains, so you're misspelling it.

1144
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:30,239
Speaker 1: You will still good.

1145
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,239
Speaker 3: And as long as you do not spell the number four,

1146
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,280
that's not that's not what we're doing here.

1147
01:02:35,679 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 2: So f O R P l A Y f I

1148
01:02:39,519 --> 01:02:42,360
L M SKY. I mean I went to school, I

1149
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:49,159
not spell. And then what about Instagram?

1150
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, at four playfilms, like on every single channel.

1151
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,719
Speaker 2: Perfect okay, and you guys of course can find me

1152
01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:00,280
on Instagram and on x at Holly Randall. Go to

1153
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,400
Holly links dot com to access to all of my platforms.

1154
01:03:04,559 --> 01:03:06,760
And of course we're going to do a little Patreon

1155
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,000
Q and A with INCA with the questions that you

1156
01:03:09,079 --> 01:03:10,880
guys sent in, So we'll do that in a separate

1157
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,960
little segment we have a couple here. And then of

1158
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,840
course I want to give a big shout out and

1159
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,960
thank you again to my sponsors strip Chat.

1160
01:03:18,039 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: You guys are amazing.

1161
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,119
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for supporting the podcast and helping

1162
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:24,840
me grow this year. This is going to be it's

1163
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:26,840
gonna be a great year. I think this is going

1164
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,719
to be the last interview in this studio as I'm

1165
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,360
moving to a bigger and better one.

1166
01:03:33,159 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: Dumb hole literally there.

1167
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 2: But I'm excited because I'm gonna you know what I'm

1168
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,840
excited about. I'm excited to have depth, to not have

1169
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,840
my chairs up against the wall so I can do

1170
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,320
a back Light twenty twenty six is bringing a backlight

1171
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,239
to Holler Randal and filtered.

1172
01:03:51,159 --> 01:03:54,519
Speaker 3: Fancy, fancy fancy. It's all about lighting.

1173
01:03:54,599 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 1: It's all about lighting. I did the best I could

1174
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:58,960
in this little space, but we're gonna we're gonna bring

1175
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,119
it up a notch for you guys. Thank you guys

1176
01:04:01,159 --> 01:04:03,599
so much for watching. The next episode will actually.

1177
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,719
Speaker 2: Be filmed at Strip Chat House, so that will be

1178
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,599
in a whole new environment that's gonna be a lot

1179
01:04:07,639 --> 01:04:10,639
of fun. To make sure that you guys stay tuned

1180
01:04:10,679 --> 01:04:13,199
for that and I'll see you there.

1181
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:34,639
Speaker 1: Have a great one.