Speaker 1: The internet complaints people went to and pro feared about
their little affairs, serene and the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar dripwood, which, by
chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and space.
Speaker 2: Well, welcome back, everybody. And on this episode of Into
the Pray, I have a returning guest back on with me,
and that is D. And he was on episode four
ninety I titled that it Can't Be People, and that
was the title of what was I say, just, But
it's not just. It's a whole lot of work. It
was a sub stack, right D. And now, as I
knew back then, I kind of said, was it going
to be a book? He said, yes, I'm working to
compile a whole lot of information. Books are a lot
of work. It is finally now going to be a
book that is scheduled I believe mid August, August fifteenth,
and that is I assume still going to be titled
It Can't Be People, with the subtitled Voices from the
Inner Circle. And I wanted to open with basically the
same way I did last time, because I re listened
to our first episode because partially because I want to
know what we had already covered. It can be hard
to remember what we've already covered. Obviously some of your
own experiences, which I think should be brought up again,
at least at a cursory way. But I wanted to
open in the same way that I was when you
initially got in touch the very first time. It was
about crop circles, right, That's what this is about, is
crop circle making, but not in the way that you
would assume. I just thought it was, Oh, let's talk
about craft and aliens coming down and making crop circles
and why that is, and the usual conversation around crop circles.
But that's not what it was. So this is about
crop circles, but as I say, not in the way
that everybody thinks of them. It addresses supernatural and high
strange events reported by human crop circle makers before, during,
and after the process.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it perfect.
Speaker 2: Well, welcome back to you. It's so good to have
you back. Congratulations on the what will be a hefty book.
I have no doubt it took you many many hours
to compile everything, because I know that once you got
into this and you said it on the last episode.
You wanted to give this whole thing a try, and
if it was bollocks, as you guys like to say
on that side of things, then you are just gonna
dismiss it. You're gonna move on whatever it wasn't because
some things happened and it got you so interested that
now here we are, you are releasing a full book
on this. What is a phenomenon? Because it's not just
people going out with boards and then you get to
look on the news or in the paper the next
day and see what people are saying about it. There's
some really weird stuff that goes on around these projects,
should we call them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's right, that's exactly right. I mean,
I went into the subjects. My background is uthology, studied uthologies.
You know, I've had this inherent interest in the paranormal
since I was a child. When I saw close encounters
as I was about eleven, and I blew my head off.
It's hard to explain, but when I saw close encounters,
it looked like more of a remembrance of something. It
was something that was already there. It's hard to explain.
So I had this deeply deep rooted interest in the paranormal.
And back in those glorious days is you probably remember Shannon,
before the Internet, it was great, you know, there was
no squabbling. All we had was like the UFO. We
had the UFO yearbooks, and we had flying sorcer, we
had the mood from ripport thoughts. But they started to
print pictures of crop circles. So I got into drop
circles through euthology, and they just looked like literally, they
looked like crop. They looked like craft that had landed.
As you probably remember, they were single circles. They looked
like birth flying saucers. Sometimes there were like four little
satellite circles around the edges, so it looked like it
was like landing gear from like the B move from
like the B movies, like The Day of the Earth
that steal and you thought, what's that, you know, and
they just looked like landed craft. But then in nineteen
ninety we started to see the led Zeppelin cover that
that was the big one from Morton Barnes in the Eastfield,
and it was like sort of corridors and forks and
door keys, you know, And at that point, you know,
people should have looked at it and gone, well, no,
UFO looks like that, you know, you know, and at
that point we should have did We should have completely
devoid forced crop circles from the flying sourcer landed you know,
the scenario. But unfortunately it was so ingrained. Pardon the
punk within the public consciouscens might by then, but people said, oh, no, okay,
this isn't landed UFOs anymore. This is messages from our
space brothers. It's a really clunky, a really clunky transformation
that most of the researchers really do some kind of
like brush over. I didn't realize how close Wiltchi was
to where I lived in London, and then when I
did realize, I thought, well, I'm going to go and
see some of these things. And we had this resource
called the Crop Circle Connector, and it showed you all
the circles were and it was like it was plotting
the points as the circles landed, they showed you where
they were. And in those days, because I believed that
they were et or time travelers or geia, you know,
if there were like ten circles to see, but you
knew that, you knew that two were man made. As
a believer. You just wouldn't go to those two you're
not interested. But I started to hear stories from people,
normally third hand stories from people that are recording, you know,
all of this weird stuff that was happening to them
while they were making them. And that's where I became
really really sort of them, because I was very disdainful
of the crop circle hoaxes. I thought, you know, it
was like, it's like what we were saying before, It's
like Bigfoot and Nessy and ghost footage. The mystery is
deep enough without without you know, fake fake hoaxters and
fake people coming through. You know. I always say the
analogy is like the Magician with the cups. The mystery
is deep enough, You've got the magician and the cups
and the ball, but you don't want them, and then
some idiot comes and adds another ten cups. You know.
So I was really disdainful of the supposed crop circle
hoaxters until I realized that they were getting a lot
of dream driven events of strange things were happening to them, Like,
for one example, one thing I've got in the book
here is that this guy had this dream to he
had he had a circle in his dream. He woke
up the next morning and he thought, I don't think
that's ever been done before. And he got his his
his helix protractor set and his compass compass out and
he drew it and thought, yeah, I reckon I could
do that. So he phoned up his friend and said, look,
I've got this really nifty idea for a circle that
I dreamt. It's probably too complicated for me to tee
the mythology over the phone. Can I come around your
house now and I'll show you it and if if
you like it, we can do it. And he went, yeah, sure.
And on the trip to his house, which is about
three miles, this circle was in a field to his
left hand side. He said, he drove past this field
that he had and he had this like internal vocalization
to look over at this field, and he said, I
had no reason to because it was part of my
commute and I'd looked at it a thousand times, but
something kind of made me look and there was that
exact crop circle that I was going to make, and
I saw it drive into my friend's house, so the
journey was degated. So that's the sort of thing that
I got really interested in you.
Speaker 2: Know, so in that particular case, d did he go
out into the field and try to confirm if it
was other crop circle makers or you know, how is
it or is it broken down sometimes to where you go, well,
that may have been the quote unquote space brothers coming
down and doing something where you can't confirm at the
very least that it was one hundred percent people.
Speaker 3: I think with the with those initial circles from the eighties,
the thing that birthed the whole thing they were their
press attent was the was the nineteen seventies Tully nests,
which were like these flattened circles in grass which were
found in Australia and they've actually never been explained, okay,
and they were the impetus for Doug and Dave to
start doing basic circles over here. So and we get
situations now where a circle was made and then you
go back the next day and there's an addition to it,
and it's normally a single circles. If the addition is
like arguably paranormal, it's normally something that's really simple, okay.
So what happens sometimes is that you'll have a diagram
and people will say well, I think we should do
this and then and then they get outvoted by the
rest of the team. And then when they and then
when the circle is actually planted, that extra bit is
actually from the Actually the extra bit from the diagram
is actually there, and it's normally a single circle. But
in answer to your question, I think this circle maker
was so long in the tooth, but he wouldn't have
had to stop the car because but by that time
he hit his mindset would have been that they are
all made by people, so he wouldn't have actually, But
when it comes to the Space Brothers thing, it's more
even now we get single circles that we can't explain,
but you don't tend to see them, reported Shannon, because unfortunately,
in this day and age, everyone wants everyone wants bling,
They want the complicated, flashy stuff, they want the glitzy stuff.
So a lot of these single circles don't actually get
reported now because they're not interesting to people because they're
not pretty. You know.
Speaker 2: So the last time we talked, it sounded like it
was happening in a specific area. Is that still the
case now?
Speaker 3: That's a good point, because obviously it's a year since
I spoke to you, so out of interest, I spoke
to like Italian makers and French and French makers because
I wanted to see if they had any of these
strange stories for me, and none of them did. So
I originally went to the erroneous conclusion that it must
be just wheelchair and it just must be need must
be just neolithic ancient sites in Wiltshire. But then I
started to speak to more circle makers and we were
ascertaining that it was happening at other sites. But the
key correlation was those sites also had Neolithic and ancient
sites within them. You know. So when I spoke to
you last year, I was a bit wrong because our
Wilchi Wilchi Wilchi is all abri or Stonehenge. But I've
interviewed people since and where they've been, where they've been
out of the area. I initially thought, oh God, my
research has been wrong. But then we've ascertained that there's
there's been a particular site or a barrow, or there's
been something neolithic within the area that they've made, so
I've kind of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, if if that's where it's centered around that
the things that make you go hmmm, right, well that
can't be just nothing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I think that the key takeaway is that
I believe that because I live in one of these areas.
I live right right on this, right on the doorstep
of one of these big Neolithic sites. Whenever I go
to these sites and I'm just going back for like
Avery to see a friends in Avery. When you go
to these sites, you get this overwhelming sort of feeling
of if you're if you're a spiritual person, you get
an overwhelming feeling of like, oh god, I realize it
all now. As soon as you go to the site
and think, oh, okay, this all makes sense now, I
totally get it. This has been in plain sight all
the time. And then your friend says, well can you explain,
and go, yeah, it's really easy, it's and then it's gone.
It seems to be that there's that when you visit
the sites, there's a kind of remembrance, like you're tapping
into like the knowledge of what our ancestors used to have,
but we haven't got it anymore because it's been kicked
out of us in this like technocratic age, you know,
or it's been suppressed in us. But you do get
an overwhelming feeling of oh yeah, this all makes sense now,
and then.
Speaker 2: It just goes so so far you haven't been able
to confirm that any of this has been going on
outside of the UK.
Speaker 3: Oh No, it does happen, of course, of course, because
there's French circles and there's French circles. Because what happens
is people will come here and they go, Okay, well
I've got fields in France over there, you know, and
they tend to be the same sort of designs that
are found over here.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so then what what's going on? Because and
we haven't really even touched on this yet because people
a probably going, well, what's weird about it? Besides the
you know, the dream and all that. We covered that,
But there's lights, there's all kinds of synchronicities that go
on with this stuff. So now that we're talking about France,
is it the same kind of activity when they're doing theirs.
Speaker 3: No, this is what I'm saying to you, that there's
there's there's an Italian artist called franschspet Grassy and he
makes them for art. I asked him as a friend.
I said, listen, I don't care. You can be anonymous
if you like. But if you've got anything weird for me,
and he's made loads, he says nothing at all, nothing
at all. Similarly with the with the other European artists,
I don't get any strange stories at all. It just
seems to be over here when they're close to like
ancient Neolithic sites, that you get the weird stuff. But
what you've got to remember is that in this area
that I'm living in now, people have been seeing bulls
of light for years before the group stir because it
goes back. It's generational, you know. And as I think
I said to you before, I mean what we now
call ups and UFOs, they were calling nature spirits and
sprites and warnings of the apocalypse, and you know, it
was it was in their own religious framework of the time,
you know. And it's as we advance then the phenomena
kind of advances with us. And now we were reporting
abductions by grays, whereas back in the the Middle Ages
people are reporting abductions by fairies, the fairy people the
way with the fairies. But we're arguing it's the same thing,
you know, and it's an ancient phenomenon that's probably subsisted
with us since our inception.
Speaker 2: I would imagine part of it is just that the
intention of going out and you're connected with the land
and the things that are growing around there, and then
they take notice that you've taken notice of the area,
and I just suppose it's some kind of a subconscious,
kind of an intention thing going on.
Speaker 3: I covered this in the book because one of the
one of my subjects called it, called them schiguls, And
the point he made, which I thought was really good,
he said, look, when people cast, if witches cast spells,
no one questions the integrity of the spell just because
it was cast by a human, you know. So if
these patterns are siguals or or the implantation of them
within these neolithic sites exacerbates and amplifies the energy of
the area, it shouldn't really matter whether they're made by
people or not. It's the effect that they have. But
the dichotomy that we've got, unfortunately, is that if people
aren't prepared to accept that humans are responsible for making circles,
then the argument is that the magic may be dispelled
from them, you know. And that's why when I said
to at the start, if there were ten circles. Only
two were man made. I wouldn't bother go into those two.
We are in this state of flux where it takes people,
it takes people to believe that it's not people making
them for the magic to exist. It's that strange paradox.
You understand what.
Speaker 2: About And I realized that a lot of this is incredible.
Sometimes synchronicities and things that seem to be an inconvenience
or something in your way turns out to be a
part of what makes it incredible in the end. But
what if you went out and I don't think that
we talked about this on four ninety is what if
you went out and you speak of a sigil, and
some sigils or symbols mean a very specific thing. It
could be something good, could be something bad. Have you
guys ever gone out and placed a specific meaning symbol
out in a field, and whether you were drawn to
do it or not, were there any repercussions or happenings
around that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a circum make that I knew who
was making stuff that was I wouldn't have made it
myself like it at dark litations for me, and when
I saw it in the field, afterwards, I went like yuck,
you know, and it so yeah, because like I say
in the book, it's magic, it's the intent behind it.
It's who's wielding the ones that that that's the person
that you've got to be concerned with, because it's it's
whether the power is exercised with good intent or with
bad you know, black or white literally literally literally that.
And there were there there was a particular team that
was going out and making circles that people just didn't
like the look of it was. It looked it looked
like it was tempting fate that they were really they
looked not very harmonious. And I happen to know that
they had bad luck afterwards, you know, certain engineering things.
So the answer is, yes, I can't go into it,
but yeah, the answer is definitely right and that and
yes that they were repercussions to it. Yeah, And that's
why I was always so careful what I placed when
I when I was going out and as part of teams,
I wanted to know what we were making beforehand, before
I'd agreed to do it for that very reason. And
sometimes you go Sometimes you go and make a circle
in a particular place and then there'd be hindrances to
get you to the place. There'd be roadblocks or something,
or they'd be like, you know, something will happen in
the car, or something external that you couldn't have planned happened.
So you think, well, we're not going to go home.
We'll just put it here. We'll just put it here
instead because we're you know, this is this is easy,
and then you stick it in this alternate in this
alturnate field, and then you find out later because at
the time you don't know this stuff, Shannon, it's always
later when you'd look it up the internet and you
get people's interpretations. Then we found out later that it
had to go in that particular field because there was
something relevant to that pattern which was absolutely relevant to
where it was, and it wouldn't have been relevant to
the place that we were going to instead, you know.
So we do get this sense of this some kind
of engineering. Sometimes, or you make a mistake and then
you have to replicate the mistake to make it look
as if it's intentional, and then it turns out that
the mistake is the most significant part of the circle,
and that's the part that everyone's looking at because it's
relevant to the date it went in there, or it's
relevant to the area, or it's relevant to that parish.
So yeah, and those are things that we can't we
can't predict that stuff. And then we look back and
we go, why did we do it there? Or yeah,
why did we do that? And then that's when you
look back and then you think, well, is there is
there some sort of hidden hand here. But one thing
I said in the book when I genuinely don't know
the answers to this, I don't know if this is
the human like, I don't know if this is the
collective consciousness talking to each other. You know where the
guide drove past that field. I don't know if it
is just us talking to each other subconsciously through means
that we've forgotten that we used to have, or whether
it's external and we are interacting with something external. That's
the only part in the book where I've said I
don't know what's happening.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and you say, sometimes it can be heavily
relevant for the area, but sometimes it can be relevant
to who will see it. And you wouldn't even have
known that prior to the last time we spoke about
As you say, there was I can't remember these specifics
of it, but you meant to put it in one spot,
you had to put it in another for whatever reason.
And you guys didn't know this, but there was a
couple on holiday, on vacation, and the guy had gone
out from his airbnb or wherever he was, and he's like,
what a beautiful field. Wouldn't it be great if there's
a crop circle in that field? That was the field
where you guys ended up putting the crop circle that
you made, and that wasn't the original intended location.
Speaker 3: And do you know the freakiest thing about that was
was that we planned that circle about about three weeks
before that guard come out, which is from Canada. So
that's where we think. You think it's chronological, it's linear,
and then you go, well, you know, but yeah, but
we planned that three weeks before that guy had his
discussion with his wife and that's when that's when your
head starts to boil and you think, you know, we
couldn't have planned that, and you.
Speaker 2: Know, and sir, just before I lose this thought, d
if I and I'm actually I was born in the UK,
but don't I don't remember it. I came to the
States when I was very very young air Force parents.
But when I think of the UK, but obviously also
because I'm into this stuff, when you think of the
UK and strangeness, you think of crop circle. So was
that guy in Canada, you know, leading up to his
trip putting this whole crop circle to he was thinking
of him and being like, Oh, we're going to stay
here at this Airbnb. I wonder where was the closest
crop circle to this airbit like maybe he was putting
that out in the ether and you guys picked that
right up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really interesting because I've got a really silly
story in this book. Okay, and got a long story short.
This team we're going to go out and do like
a band logo. It was a band that they all liked, Okay,
but their logo had particular features in it. Okay, and
certain Crop Circle team members sometimes they have like their
bank seat signatures that they're really good at okay and
like Okay, And sometimes other teams will borrow them because
they say, we want the feathering effect. Can you come
and help us with this? And anyway this team wants
to do this band logo. They all had their specialist
sort of areas, and they had a separate piece of
paper each and they said, well, you do your but
you do your bit, and they put them they put
them all together and said, yeah, this we could do
this logo because of our because of our individual skill sets.
And then somebody says, well, you know, if you do that,
you're going to be pretty stupid because you've been wearing
that band's T shirts all season, you idiots, you know,
so it's gonna be pretty easy to connect it to you.
So they scrapped the idea. But then over the course
of the next a week or so, there were four
circles in that media area, and each of these circles
had an element of that band logo in their circles.
And obviously, I say in the book that there's no
way that an omnipresent force has forced this group of
people to think of doing a band logo. It's obviously,
you know, their idea, but it seemed like the intent
had floated. It was like in the ether and had
been plucked down by the other makers, you know, unconsciously.
And the bit, the bits that were grafted on, they
they weren't they weren't essential to their own patterns, but
they still looked okay, but we but that freaked them
out because they said, well, that's that's my arch thing,
and that's you know, and all its composite part was
in a different circle over the next week or so,
and they were really close to the era as well.
So I think you're right. I think it's it's just
the intent and the thing I said about the diagram before.
There was this couple of teams and they were saying,
I want I want that circle in there. I'm there,
but no, but if you put that in there, that
that's going to luck another circle and then they don't
do it, and then that circle is added afterwards and
it's not by the team, and like and then the
team go, well, you know, I told you you're supposed
to be there. I told you you're supposed to be there.
Something's put it there, you know. And those tend to
be like single circles. Those are dishes, nothing complicated. Of course.
You know, people say, well, maybe a team's coming after you,
but you know, if you've left to field at three
in the morning, it's very unlikely that somebody is going
to come in when it's getting light. And then and
put an enormous single circle and add it to your circle.
Is that That's the part of the mystery that I'm
really into. It's it's the it's the late and subconscious
element and the synchronouses and the dreams. Because last time
I supposed to you, I was hopping on about the
lights and a lot of the physical stuff that still
interests me. But it's the fact that we've got all
this engineering, and we've got all these mistakes that turn
out and not to be mistakes, and placing it in
that site, and it's more important there. It's all the
stuff that we are oblivious to that then comes out
afterwards when the world sees it, you know, because like
we say, the Croup circle is ours until we leave
the field. The second we leave that field, it doesn't
belong to us. It's not ours anymore. It's the world's.
You know.
Speaker 2: How often do you guys go back after a circle
is done? And if you do, what's the weight period
to see if things are changed or added on, you
tend to leave.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you start at ten, you're normally out
by three. If it's a complicated one, I've been back.
I've been backing at nine you know, I haven't seen
any additions in mind, but when you go back and
it's full of people and you think, well, we did
that and it was only six hours ago, you know.
But we equally know that were we to tell anybody
in that field that we'd done it would be firstly,
would be shouted down as fantasists, and nobody would believe
us because the you know, the intent to believe is
so strong that it can't be people. But secondly, we don't.
We wouldn't really want to rain on anyone's parade, you know.
And the only reason why I'm actually doing this book
now if people are saying, well, you know, if you
want to retain the magic, why are you're doing it?
And the reason why I'm doing it is because the
current reality that's that's perpetuated by you know, the the
the people that write about this stuff, it's so away
from the actual reality that we're like saying that we're
the only voice that's not been heard. So we're just
giving you our perspective to say, look, the mystery is
just as deep even with people in there. You know.
It's if you insert people, we've still got synchronous this,
We've still got orbs, We've still got apparitions, it's all
still there. We've still got the batterage draining, We've still
got mobile phone signals draining. It's all there. I've been
in circles that I've made or I've been involved with
the next day and people's phones are back in the nineties,
this was two thousands, and people's phones are draining, the
batteries are going, the cameras were going, and we're thinking, well,
this is mental because that was us last night. You know.
That tends to anticipate though, so if it's been there
for a few weeks that those kind of reactions to
like electric to electronics, that they tend to deplete. But
sometimes what happens is I'm a believer in the fact
that it's just the just just the the belief of
the visitors that they actually can enhance that charge as well,
because sometimes you go to a circle three weeks later
that's been really popular and like thousands of people have
been there and it still feels charged. If you see
what I mean, it still feels magical, you know. And
we think that's perhaps because of because of because of
the residue left by the visitors that have gone in
there that have had these great experiences. Because the other
thing is that people think because they've had a fantastic
expirits of a corupt circle, that means that it can't
have been made by people, you know, and that that's
something that I'm trying to get people away from. Really,
you know, it's it's it's it's what happens once it's
there rather than how it got there. That's important.
Speaker 2: And see here we are talking about batteries draining and apparitions,
and you go, well, that's a haunted location. And the
fact that we are talking about that in the same
breath that we are talking about orbs, light craft and synchronicities,
it goes to show you that all of these subject
matters can be intertwined.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. What somebody on somebody left me a very complimentary
comment on one of your videos and he now follows
me on stuff sub second is very complimentary and he
says that this is probably the most realistic explanation for
crop circles, that that that that that's out there so
far in that we're dealing with the muse here, Shannon.
I mean, I know that you're a musician, you know,
and a lot of musicians are attracted to this because
sometimes you'll you'll think, okay, what what what shall I
put down in the field, and you're okay, well, I'll
just I'll just draw this until I think of something better.
And because your mind is kind of empty when you're
doing that, you look at it after as and you think,
what the hell? What the hell is that? And that's
the idea. It's like sometimes when songs come fully formed
to people, and when stories come fully formed, we think
that there is it's the muse. You know, that there's
something either latent within us, within our id or within
our ego, or there's something external that when we empty
our minds and say, right, what have you got for me?
That's when it jumps in. You know. There's examples of
like with some of the Beatles songs where McCartney's written
a lyric and he's gone, oh well, I'll just write
that bridging line until I think of something else, blah
blah blah, and then Leonard's gone, that's the best part
of the song because he's not thinking about it, you know.
And I think that's a really important part of this mystery.
Once even with people inside the whole mystery. Actually, I say,
at the end of the book, are we not from
an ego point of view, is humanity the mystery here
rather than the actual crop circles? Maybe we should be
looking not at the et arguing is saying, look, this
strange stuff is happening here. Okay, could it be that
it's something that we're more powerful than we think we
are as a species? You know that there's a dichotomy
that I I can't get round, And that is a
lot of a lot of the New Age, A lot
of the New Age people say to us, or say
to say to humanity, to say, look, we've been suppressed.
We're incredible creatures. We can do this. We are incredible.
We can do absolutely everything. Oh but we can't flatten corn.
You can't have that, you know, because we want that
to be aliens. You know, do you understand?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when you say it like that, you go,
oh yeah, you kind of get slapped down a little bit,
right with the thought that how, oh no, that's not
that's not people. It has to be aliens. But that said,
d do you think there are instances where it is
it where it isn't people.
Speaker 3: I think there's sin when you get those additions sometimes
and you look at it and the corn is it's
it doesn't look like it's been boarded. It's like quite high. Certainly,
some of those early circles from the eighties, there's no
tram lines in the field. Sometimes the tram line is
the bit which which the tractors make work that they're
like our entry ports against the field. Okay, because people say, oh,
you know it can't be my made. There's there's no footprints.
That there's no footprints because we got we go in
the trail line. Then we'll take big steps into the crop. Okay,
So I understand what your question is. But I used
to believe that. I used to think, how this can't
be done. But as as I said, as a circle
maker said to me, and this is in the this
is one of the first pages he says, when people
say there's no way humans can do this, they're actually
saying that they can't comprehend how we can do this.
They don't have enough faith in their own species, you know.
So when I first became involved, I looked at like
the big the alien disc and thought, how the heck,
there's no way people can do this? And then you
go out with the teams, really good teams. I couldn't
do it, but I've been involved in teams where the
leader could do it. And then you go into a
circle next time you go, Okay, well I can't. I
can't do this myself. I'm not experienced enough. But I
can certainly see how it was done, because we did
that last night, you know. But I was just stomping.
But I watched the blow through that last night.
Speaker 2: But you did kind of you You did hint that
you think that some of the additions after you're completely
done and folks have left, oh yeah, may maybe something
else going on, Shannon.
Speaker 3: That's not a hint. I'm not hinding that till I'm
quite blazing about that.
Speaker 2: So what do you think that is? Do you think
that that is something literally the space brothers or You're
not going to have the answer, of course, But what
do you think that is done?
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is. I don't think it's aliens,
but it's something that I just say, it's at NHI.
It's not something I can explain. You look at these
additions and you go or you look at some of
the single circles, which I've been lucky enough to see.
Sometimes you see and they're not even they're not even
single circles. They are a bit they're like a splodge,
you know, they're like really messy. It's it's like it's
not quite done it properly. But then but then you
walk into it and like that, the crop is like
a few inches raised, and you think that can't be
done by boards. But they don't get reported because nobody
wants to see it, because they don't look they don't
look pretty on calendars, you know. So yeah, I'm totally
I'm totally of the mindset that there is something else there,
and it's those single circles, the taliness. I don't know
how they got there, But as soon as we started
to do pictures, that's when the people became involved.
Speaker 2: And as you sorry to go ahead.
Speaker 3: When we start to do straight line, when we learn
how to do straight lines, and we learn how to
get our geography sets out, our geometry sets out and
plot these things so that you know a centimeter on
the page is a foot in the field, that's when
I think the people start to get involved. But I
still those additions, and there's still single circles that I
see now and I go, I don't know what that is.
It's not people.
Speaker 2: And as you said, also sometimes you can tell because
of the way you guys execute a crop circle. You
can tell by the way some of the corn is bent.
Afterward you go, that can be it's boards and people.
That's not okay, Wow, Well see everybody out there there.
There is still hope that it's not all people, right,
I mean because.
Speaker 3: Something yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: As you said, people want to believe, right, it's the
old X files. We want to believe.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But if you if you look at the crypt
circle mystery as a template, if you think, well, people
are involved, but all of this stuff is happening as well,
I think it's Actually I was devastated when I found
out people were making these things. I was really angry.
I thought, I've spent ten years on my life driving
here and and now I know that the picture of
Camson I made. I was really angry, I've wasted my
life life. And then I had that first experience in
that one that I'll just recap. But what happened was
I was I was invited to go out and do
a stage two. A lot of the circles that you
see people say, well, that could have been done in
one night. Well, they're right, because a lot of these
done over a lot of I don't know the two
or three nights, but you just don't see the location,
or certainly back then you would now with drones, etc.
But back back then a circle could be left for
a couple of days and people know I was there
and it wouldn't be finished. But I was overheard in
Crop Circles Central saying, you know, I'm really interested about
what happens when the circles are here, not how they
got there. This guy come up to me, he says, look,
we've been watching you for the past few weeks. We
think that you're aligned to what we're doing. Would you
like to come out and finish this crop circle? No
one knows it's there. Would you want to come out
and finish it? I went, god, yeah, totally, And so
we went to do it and nothing happened at all,
and I thought, my god, what a wait the time,
these people are just egotists, they're hoaxes. I was really angry.
I wasted my night. And then at the end I
saw a flash at the end of the field like this,
like this, like this old flash bowl from the camera
because this was in the early two thousands. And I
said to the team and they, oh, shit, we've been caught.
There's been somebody crouching down and taking pictures. And I'm
at a job where I can't afford any criminal records,
you know, I'm in the trade. He said, no, don't
worry about it. We get this all the time. He said,
if you keep on making, you're going to see this
stuff all the time. It's perfectly natural. And then this
this flashlight that became more flashlights, and then it was
like one, two, three, bang bang bang bang bang, and
then they proliferated all around the outer rim of this
circle and then the substack. I called it the biggest
necklace in the world because if they surrounded us. And
I went, what the hell is that? And terret T said,
he said, oh yeah, that's just like a round of
paws and it's telling us to it's like a painting.
Don't do anything else, don't add to it because it's
going to mess it up. Just you've done your work.
We got you've got to go home. And then he
looked up and he said, okay, well we've done our work.
Now the circle is yours? Now it's not ours? And
I said to him, who are you talking to, tee?
And he says, oh, I'm talking to the people that
I'm talking to that lot and he pointed out pointed
to the ceiling, but pointed to the sky. And the
second that you said that, all these lights went off.
And that's when I thought, what the hell is going on?
And because I said to my partner, I'm going to
go out and help on a cell because if nothing
paranormal happens, I'm never going to do it again. And
when that happened, I was hooked. And but it's important
to tell you don't get a strange thing every time. Okay,
I would say I made about twenty five and I
only had a weird experience probably forty percent or fifty
percent at the time. A lot of the time the strange,
the strangeness happens afterwards when you when you see it
report did online then and then the relevance of the
circle and its location and time and the mistakes you've
made are actually that's when it resonates with you. Is
there hid in the hand here? You know? Because that
circle means complete, something completely different to what we wanted
it to do, and it's much more important than our.
Speaker 2: Intention was What about something anything following any of you
home activity in your homes afterwards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of us have had that. I don't
like to talk about it because it still attracts you know. Yeah,
definitely I've had it, and other people have had it
as well.
Speaker 2: Scary stuff, dark stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really dark. And in my case, without going
into too much detail, it's in the book. It was
something that I did. I didn't do anything bad. It
wasn't like this other circle maker. I didn't like the
what this siguls looked like. I did something that was
all about my ego. I did something to show off,
all right. I took a couple of people out, all right,
and it was all about ego and they hadn't they
wanted to make a circle and I was really it
was about me, you know. And I got a slap
on the wrist after that.
Speaker 2: How long did it last?
Speaker 3: Only about a week and said and then I kind
of said, okay, I'm sorry, I won't do that again.
Speaker 2: And it start like I get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really sorry because I thought, why is this
happening to me? And it was really an engineered thing.
It was really scary. And then I thought, it's because
you made that crop circle. You did it for it.
You did that for you, You did that for the
You can't mess about with this stuff.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't even what the shape of the crop circle.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 2: It was the intention behind it. It was it was
you showing off. Was enough?
Speaker 3: There was What happened was there was something. There was
something at the end of the circle. One of the
teams said, oh, can I just add something as just
my little signature so that I know that when I
see this picture in years to come, it I just
know I did that bit. And I said, yeah, okay, fine,
and he added this thing and it was unwitting. He
didn't do it on purpose, but this, this small embellishment
completely changed the tenor of the circle and it made
it look like something else. It was. It was tiny, okay,
but it was enough so that I looked at it
the next day I thought, oh shit, that's that's not good.
It looked like a scorpion sting kind of thing. It
was really, it was just that one small embellishment. It
just changed the whole circle. So it was a combination
of my ego and me doing it for the wrong intentions,
and this thing that I let this circle maker do,
this kid do and and then I thought that was
you you've done. No, you shouldn't have done that. You know,
I didn't know what he was going to add to
I've got to like that. I didn't know what he
was going to do, and I thought it was all
right because in the field I couldn't see it at
the time until I saw the aerial shots and went, oh,
that's completely different now, and it really it got a
bad It got negative connotations as well online people said,
I don't like what that looks like, you know.
Speaker 2: Did it look satanic or something.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't go that far. It just looked In the book,
I say that within the landscape, we had this pastoral
landscape of beautiful landscape, and it looked discordant within that landscape.
That's what I said, and that's what I stand by.
And but I'm not the only one that's happened. People
have done stuff based on the wrong reasons. All they
put bad images in the field, and yeah it has
followed them home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, what about the for that particular crop circle
that we were just talking about what about the others
that made it? Did they also have activity at home?
Speaker 3: No? I never I never select them again. Shannon, Oh.
Speaker 2: Is that normal? Is that an?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: So how do you all find each other? I mean
I assumed it was mostly the same rotating.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Everyone thinks it's a cult and you've got different
I didn't. No, I know you, but people do think that.
But sometimes you'll work with somebody and then you'll never
work with them again, or do you work with them
five years later? Okay, you know, because what happens is
you'll get people. You get people going out with mentors,
like the great artists, and then the great artists or
the older ones who retired, now the two old to
go out and then they're like sort of protegies go
out and they copy their mentors, you know, sort of
signifiers until they until they get their own, and then
they're off and then and then and it spreads. Then
they retire and blah blah blah, and it goes on
and on and on, and then you get other teams
that have just come from nowhere and you can see
where they The thing is, if people say, oh, you
can tell the crap circles because they're crap. What what
what The researchers don't tell you, and what they know
full well a lot of them is that if you
see a really bad crop circle, that's just your new
team starting out, you know. And it's like being a
rock and roll band. If you're in a rock and
roll band, you can rehearse in artist's basement until you're
really good, okay, and then you can go out and
do a good gig. You don't get you don't get
that luxury if if you're a crop circle maker and
you're and you're and you're new at it, you're rehearsing
in the open air, you know, and all your first
boxed attempts are going to be there for the public
to laugh at, you know. So no, it's not like
it's it's not like interchangeable people. There is a lot
of that, but it's not just that, you know, it's
you can work with people and never see it again.
Speaker 2: So you just mentioned the the up and coming crop
circle maker. They're just starting out, right, so their crop
circles aren't as tight. Arnt is pretty arnt A is fantastical.
If you take that group of people in that crop circle,
and then you take ten year season veterans of this.
Does that mean that you guys over here with the fantastical, beautiful,
perfect crop circle has more activity than the less beautiful
crop circle.
Speaker 3: What you mean that I've seen I've seen activity in
badly made crop circles. I've seen like the magical stuff
in badly mad crop circles, because sometimes like the even
though it's been badly done, that the intention was good,
the spirituality was was.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Yeah, that's what I was wanting.
Speaker 3: That's that's a really good question. Actually, yeah, yeah, but
sometimes you see a bad circle thin that's you think, well,
I can see what they're trying to do because that
looks like that looks like the pattern from last year,
but they just haven't done it right. Yeah, and then
two years on it's the same thing as making good stuff,
you know, because they've they've learnt their mistakes to make,
you know, just try an error.
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 2: Do you forgive this question? But I feel like I
should ask because we're talking about batteries, draining apparitions, the
gamut of activity. So that said, have you or has
anyone that you've known that goes out and does these
crop circles?
Speaker 1: Do you?
Speaker 2: Has anyone ever gone out and tried the Estes method
or done a weed aboard, or had a seance or
you know, tried to bring other ways of because obviously
you're already communicating while you're the intent behind it getting
there doing the crops circle, that's communication in some way,
shape or form already with something. What about other other forums?
Have you? Have you done that?
Speaker 3: Now? What the closest to what you've said is that
we do. And the first time I saw is I thought,
what's he doing? But you do? You do an incantation.
So what will happen is you'll get before you start
you this is this. It's not scripted, there's no you
don't read it out or anything. It's just this from
the heart. We basically say, look, can we can we
be protected and our endeavors to night? Can we not
be caught? Can we can we be harbored from any dangers?
And can we and can you help us? And can
you make sure that whoever encounters this after us when
we've left, has a Jewish experience and and and and
and it brings them something good to their lives. That
that's that's the extent of what we do. It's called
the incantation. Seeing it done many times and this this this,
there's no scripture to it. It's just it's it's basically
the same, the same words. Just yeah, yes, called the incantation,
but those those are the general GISTs of it. Please
protect us, please help us, laurendevas, help us make a
great one. And anybody that experiences it from tomorrow, can
they get something really positive out of it.
Speaker 2: So, since it's been about a year since we've spoken,
just to close out, can you share an instance, probably
a recent one so that way, I don't think it's
covered in four ninety, but a strange or a really
impactful incident or synchronicity, something that you've come across that
that will be in the book as an example.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did I talk to you last time about about
that little about that little couple of girls?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: All right, this is I put this in the book
really early. Okay, this wasn't me, This was this was
another person. He was in bed and he was asleep,
and at midnight he felt completely awake, and he said,
it wasn't like I've roused. I felt like I've been
shaken by the shoulder. I woke up. I felt like
I've been shaken away. But the room was bare, it
was dead on midnight. And he said, I had this
compulsion to make this particular circle in this particular field.
It had to be this field, it had to be
this particular pattern. But he said he was warm, and
he didn't want to be, thinking, the last place I
want to beat is by myself, because as if I'm
going to get a team this time of night, the
last place I want to be is in a field
thrashing upon this design that is probably beyond my capabilities.
Just forget it. And then he tried to go asleep,
and he was nagging and nagging and nagging, and he said,
in the end he had to get up. And it
wasn't like a joyous calling or any religious, you know,
sort of thing. It was just like it was the
same thing as when your cat is pouring at you
for food. The only way that you're going to stop
it is by getting up, or if you're back, or
if the barn door was going in the wind, you've
got to get up. So obviously he couldn't he couldn't
get a team, so he used he used tent pegs
as well, because when the tent pegs in the soil,
once you've like straightened the tape out, you know that
the tent peg is equivalent to somebody standing there. So
so he got the kit out of his cupboard, drove
to a particular field. I thought, I can't be bothered
to drive anymore. I'm just going to do it here.
And he parked up, took his kit out, went to
went to start to do it in this field. Felt nauseous,
felt sick, felt terrible, and this this thing was in
high definition of in his head this same symbol. No,
this field, this field. Okay, So he gets out, drives
to the drives to the actual field. As soon as
he got there, he said he felt this rush of
energy when he started to do the right thing in
the right field. He said that the crop circle was
beyond his capabilities. He wasn't really good enough to be
able to pull it off. But it went without a hitch,
and it was done in a couple of hours. But
he said, in the time that he was doing it,
he could hear a rave over a ridge. It was
like chanting because there's a lot of parties in you know,
crop circle country at that time of year, people like
you getting by the fireside and campfires and playing guitars
and bongos. There's a lot of that, okay. So I thought, oh,
there's obviously a rave going on. So what I'll do
is I won't use my flashlight and I'll be really careful.
I won't be singing to myself or anything like that.
I'll be really ninja about this, okay, to make sure
I'm not cool, because otherwise they're going to hear me.
Got the crop circle done and it was light by
the time he'd finished, so he thought, well, I don't
really want to risk carrying the stuff back to the car.
I mon't get caught, and he basically just fell asleep.
He said, as soon as he finished it, the energy
left his body. There's like this rushed that he had,
he said it. He said, it felt like he'd been
unplugged from the mains and he'd had this energy for
the time he was doing it. It was kind of external.
So he fell asleep, came to about eight am and
there was a group of girls just freaking out and
they were like whooping and they were so happy, and
like he realized that they were in his crop circle,
and they were sort of going, oh god, this is incredible,
and he's thinking to himself, well, you know, it's all right,
it's not that good. But one of them rushed up
to him and said, we've been supplicating. And she was
grappling something around her neck and it was a necklace
and she pulled it off and she goes, oh, we've
been supplicating Mother Nature for this. We've been we've been
meditating upon my amulet for her to put us in
this field within our order. Of course, my friend saw
the amulet and just freaked, Oh my god, that's exactly
what I've just done. But he couldn't tell them obviously,
you know, And he said to them the penny was dropping.
But he said to them, oh, I mean, he was
in shock, basically. But he still said to them, oh,
last night, were you like doing a little rave, a
little sort of party, And they said no, it's because
when we do our intentions, we do them like whispering,
and we do it. He said that he thought that
somehow the intent of their sort of supplications had somehow
to him seemed like actual music, you know. And he
said the strange thing about that was he said, if
I hadn't have heard the music, I wouldn't have been careful.
Then I would have been caught. Then they wouldn't have
got their present. But the kicker was he said to
these girls, well, when did you start doing your prayers?
And when did you start doing your well? She goes
well midnight. Of course that's when she's most powerful. And
that story for me, Right, You've got everything in there.
You've got synchroniciatives, you've got you've got the you've got
the communication with other parties. And I still say to him,
m do you think that you are communicating with the
girls or do you think that there's something else which
is compelling us to do this? But that's the story.
And the book is only one hundred and eighty pages, Shannon,
and that's simply because once I finished it, it was
like five hundred pages. There was so much that I
couldn't use because the stories were all exactly the same.
And that gave me more confidence than anything when I
thought I'm onto something here, because there's so much that
I can't use. Because these people, even though they're completely
unrelated to each other, they don't know each other. I'm
getting the same dead on stories from all of them,
and that's why I've had to pair this book down
to thirty percent of the size that it should have been.
But that story there when I thought there's definitely's got
to be something going on.
Speaker 2: You know, wow, that is pretty incredible. He must have
just been absolutely blown away to see around her neck
that exact design.
Speaker 3: But he said he had to retain his He said
he had to retain his composure because he didn't want
to give it away and he didn't want to tell
them it was man made. He didn't want to say
I did it. Not that they would have believed him,
but he didn't want to spoil their gift.
Speaker 2: You know wow, that is incredible. Well, Dee, I it
was such a pleasure to speak to you again, and
I hope that you continue. I assume you will, hopefully
to collect these stories, and you're welcome back.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to. I'm not going to. This was
a cathartic thing for me to do. I'm leaving it
alone now. Once this book's out, I'm never going to
do anything like this again. My career is pushing me
in other creative directions. I'm leaving this alone and I'm
hoping by telling you that that you'll realize that I'm
not kind of I'm not looking to build a career.
I'm not a grifter. I'm done with this now. I
wanted to get this out, put our side across. It's
in the past for me already. I've moved on to
something else, really creative. Do you understand good, So I'm
not wasting I don't. I'm not wasting your time. I'm
letting you know this is done for me. I'm not
looking to build. I'm not looking to under lecture circuit.
I'm not interested. It's ten years of my life. I've
done it. I wanted to tell people what goes on,
make your own mind up. But I'm done, and my
missus is certainly done with it because she doesn't believe
in any of this stuff. I said, let me get
let me get it out, and I promise you I
will leave this alone now, but so we can talk
about other things in the future. Won't be well, good.
Speaker 2: For you, d I'm that is incredible. No, that's a
wonderful answer. I think that's fantastic, and it must be
as you say, it's very cathartic. You've got it out.
You put everything that you could have into this and
here she is. Okay. So that said, let's talk about
before I let you.
Speaker 3: Go where you don't think you're going to get that answer? Did?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Actually I didn't. It's always because it's always the same.
It's always that same back and forth for things like that.
Oh yeah, I'll come back on and another year you're
like bye bye.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's wonderful. I really do.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting that, but I think that I think
that's great. And you know, once the energy is expelled
for something and you don't have a passion for it anymore,
you shouldn't just keep hanging on to the threat.
Speaker 3: What I am I hanging on to is done.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I wanted the story to get out there. And there's
two other books like this coming out this year, so
I think that that's quite tending as well. Yeah, you
know that there's two other people doing this, you know,
obviously there's something in the air. Maybe we're disclosure, I
don't know, but it's really odd that there's two other
books coming out and we didn't know about each other,
you know, the three of us doing this.
Speaker 2: Yere Wow, Yeah, that is that is very telling. Well, okay,
so share as much as you can, as far as can.
People still go on the sub stack win this bookpected.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the substacts free. It's called It Can't Be People,
and you'll find it is substack dot it Can't Be
People dot Com. I've been updating it every sort of
a couple of weeks with new story and interviews, so
you'll you'll be on here in a couple of weeks.
But the book, it's It Can't Be People Voices from
the Inner Circle, Citizen D. And it'll be coming out
on the fifteenth of August. And I said, I said,
you a bit just off their off there there, my
identity would probably come out. You know, a lot of
people know who I am. But I'm hoping that by
by remaining anonymous by choice and that being outed won't
be my doing, you'll see that this isn't an ego thing, Okay.
Otherwise I'd haven't come in and shouting my own name, okay.
And the reason why I called it under Citizen D
is because I just want the story to talk. It's
not about me, It's it's about what over the past
ten years, and that I'll be out on Amazon, probably
just Paperback worldwide, fifteenth of AUGUSTA.
Speaker 2: That is what I was going to ask, is Emma
Zon you can't. You can't get away from the zone, right, Well,
thee thank you so much for coming back on and
I'll talk to you again, but it won't be about
this subject. Obviously you did throw me for a loop there.
Speaker 3: Oh I'm genuine now because I'm not looking to make
a career out of it.
Speaker 2: I was like, let me check my my earbuds here
did I just hit out?
Speaker 3: I'm done?
Speaker 2: Well, you've done incredible work. So it's it's I mean,
not for nothing, it is. It's a fascinating subject. And
for me to you know, look at something and and go, oh,
this is going to be a this conversation is going
to sit in this little box. And then I kept
reading reading, you know, referring to my first contact to go,
oh yeah, wait a second, so we're here. I love that.
Speaker 3: What I'd like to say at the end, just to
finish with this, if you're I'm not going to burst
your bubble. And if you want to believe that some
crop circles are are made by other forces and like
the picture game, that's fine, Okay, I don't care. Go
on your own journey. I'm not going to burst your bubble.
But just bear in mind that if when you see
people you know belittling hoaxes and saying that, well, these
are hoaxes, what you've got to realize this is that
for something to be hoaxed, there must be a definitive
article which can be proved not to have been made
by people. We think that there is no such definitive article. Okay,
So even if you're a part in your part of
your journey where you're not prepared to accept the all
crop circles are made by people, the takeaway is the
fact that they are made by people, or some are
made by people, of your opinion, there's still something really
effing weird going on. Okay, so don't dismiss it this Still,
don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There
is something really odd going on. It could be us,
it could be us relating to something else, or it
could be just humanity and with a mystery.
Speaker 2: I think that's a beautiful place to end it. Thanks again, d.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: I'm so and so.
Speaker 5: I was given a snake by my parents. My business,
I've out for college, I've done these things. As my professions,
I produce a little bark, but its forget it.
Speaker 3: That's someone's story. That's all gone, that's all bars. I
want to see.
Speaker 4: Them really who you are now when.
Speaker 3: Nobody knows what earnings.
Speaker 5: Because we don't know ourselves exert for listening to marry
and consulting aren't them? And then there's a really, And
then again it has been there's a question.
Speaker 3: All are you that.
Speaker 5: We shall see how they play with the success by
the colors to get you to.
Speaker 3: Come out of the show and find out really.
Speaker 4: Puts puss puss pusssssssssssss.
Speaker 3: Send me. For example, are quite divided on us.
Speaker 5: They will say, no, we don't believe literally in reincarnation
that after your funeral to grow you will sadly become
sadly different. They being somewhere else, they will say, reincarnation
means this that if you sitting here now are really convinced.
Speaker 3: That you're the same.
Speaker 5: Person that bolding at the door half an hour ago,
you'll be reincarnated. If you're liberated, well as now that
you're gone, the past hasn't been tested, the future hasn't insistence.
Speaker 4: There is only the present, that's the.
Speaker 3: Only amenion that there is. The zen masters don't get
in this space center. The spring does not become something.
First there is sam and then.
Speaker 4: There is springs. It's it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 5: T s has the same ideas when he says, when
you settled down in the train to read your newspapers
and you're not the same person, h.
Speaker 4: M hmm.
Speaker 5: If you think you are, you are linking your moments
up in the change. And this is what binds the
wheel of both there. When you know that every moment
which you are is the only moment, this comes intos
and the master will say to somebody, I cannot have
a walk across the room and it can be back.
Speaker 3: He says, where are your foot? They've gone, So where
are you? Who are you? When we are asked who
we are, we usually give a kind of recipation of
an instrm string inst