Speaker 1: The weather in England will soon start to be colder.
Speaker 1: John once again became another year older who left c
Speaker 1: with the shock of the round. The Giants announce that
Speaker 1: they're moving ground. Wigan were good and played like a
Speaker 1: top biller, but Leeds piped Wakey in a Bellvue thriller.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the thirty second episode of Super League three sixty,
Speaker 1: a podcast primarily about the top tier of British rugby league,
Speaker 1: but we have a few other things, including a little
Speaker 1: bit of an RL as well. My name is Lee Addison.
Speaker 2: My name is John Davidson. Wake up John.
Speaker 1: I'm in Australia. John John a journo in the UK.
Speaker 1: You may have heard him on sen Radio if you
Speaker 1: listen to that on a Monday morning in Australia, but
Speaker 1: please read the description or listen to old pods for
Speaker 1: full details about us. If you are listening on the
Speaker 1: Ashes Rugby League podcast platform, please switch old to Super
Speaker 1: League three sixty or Rugby League Coach podcast platforms. John,
Speaker 1: You'll have to talk for a minute because my computers
Speaker 1: doing a bit of freezing, so.
Speaker 2: I can talk.
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just trying to g up the some
Speaker 3: really good questions and listener food back this week. But
Speaker 3: is been that much happened since we last recording, Yeah,
Speaker 3: particularly even in the last forty eight hours. That Yeah,
Speaker 3: we might be a three hour part. Hopefully it might't
Speaker 3: because we've put some people to sleep, but there's a lot.
Speaker 3: You can also watch this on the Rugby League YouTube
Speaker 3: channel and also listen to us on Rugby League dot com.
Speaker 1: Uh, where do we start? Where do we start? Saint
Speaker 1: Helens and Hull Left C played on Thursday. Hull hadn't
Speaker 1: won a game for two months and they'd lost seven
Speaker 1: on the bounce, but they managed to roll a Saint
Speaker 1: Helen's in this game. I'll go through the scorers and
Speaker 1: the score first. This now means Saint Helens have lost
Speaker 1: six of the last seven and then I think we've
Speaker 1: got plenty to one pack, haven't we when it comes
Speaker 1: to Saint Helen's in particular. So Saint Helen's eighteen Hull
Speaker 1: FC thirty two Saint Helens tries from Murphy, Wellsby and
Speaker 1: Robertson and three goals from Hasting. Hull f c's thirty
Speaker 1: two three from Baron hat trick for Baron. Martin scored
Speaker 1: a try, cust and Bell also scored, and Hardacre scored
Speaker 1: four goals and Baron's first senior Hatrick means things are
Speaker 1: pretty barren in Saint Helen's and I think it's their
Speaker 1: first win in a long long time in Saint Helen's.
Speaker 1: John sold plenty to one pack there. Yeah, I mean, god,
Speaker 1: this the whole court of evening. I mean, there was
Speaker 1: probably a bit of good news in there.
Speaker 3: When I'm in McManus announced that Sint Helen's are going
Speaker 3: to play I'll c in Dublin on the Sunday twenty
Speaker 3: four hours after or just over twenty four hours after,
Speaker 3: we're going to Warrant announce their game, which we're going
Speaker 3: to talk about. But even that announcement, like you just
Speaker 3: announced it on Sky, why would you not pair up
Speaker 3: We we're going to Warranton and do a proper media event,
Speaker 3: promoted properly. I mean even that, I mean that interview,
Speaker 3: the mcmanuson interview, I don't think on Sky really revealed
Speaker 3: anything of NOE. There wasn't much depth to it. And
Speaker 3: then the performance of the team. They're in it for
Speaker 3: a bit and then they just completely fell away. And
Speaker 3: you know, hullof c have had a terrible year. They've
Speaker 3: been very poor all this game, but they really deserve
Speaker 3: that win. And Saint Helen's is just it was embarrassing,
Speaker 3: you know, the crowd size as well. I don't know
Speaker 3: what the figure was, but there was empty sways around
Speaker 3: the brew Dog and everything about Saint Helen's. I mean,
Speaker 3: we've we've I've written about it, We've talked about it
Speaker 3: in quite a few pods.
Speaker 2: Now it's just a club in a big, big hole.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: The chairman made some comments last week too. Would you
Speaker 1: like to tell us about what well summarized I suppose
Speaker 1: what he said.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean he obviously they didn't make any
Speaker 3: comment after the initial released that Paul Rollie was stepping
Speaker 3: down even though they'd sacked him.
Speaker 2: But there wasn't. We didn't really have any much clarity
Speaker 2: after that.
Speaker 3: Interview either, I don't think really, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 3: particularly engaging interview. There was just a lot of you know,
Speaker 3: a lot of spin and a lot of nonsense said.
Speaker 2: You know, there wasn't.
Speaker 3: I don't think he was particularly well, you know, put
Speaker 3: to it was all sort of friendly. But the fact is,
Speaker 3: you know McManus is the one making the key decisions
Speaker 3: now as the chairman and has been for a long
Speaker 3: long time. And you know, I think I think Brian
Speaker 3: Carney mentioned and this was a really good point. He
Speaker 3: said that Nick Manus had said or written previously that
Speaker 3: twenty four and twenty five of the worst seasons that
Speaker 3: you know, in his twenty six years, or I think
Speaker 3: he took over in two thousand, So this year's got
Speaker 3: to be even worse. So it's basically all gone downhill.
Speaker 3: And why is that the case? I mean, I've just
Speaker 3: broken a story an hour or two ago that they're
Speaker 3: going to shop their named Donald around.
Speaker 2: So he's another player contracted for next year.
Speaker 3: So it just goes to show how bad the recruitment
Speaker 3: and how bad the decision making has been at that
Speaker 3: club that they're trying to move on a lot of
Speaker 3: the players who are contracted, so they're going to have
Speaker 3: to pay them out.
Speaker 2: It's going to cost him a lot of money. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just.
Speaker 1: Well everything you're saying there, it's not been a overnight
Speaker 1: sensation that they've been going backwards. It's been there for
Speaker 1: a while and there's some institutionally flawed things there in
Speaker 1: terms of yeah, Saint Helen's standards overall, in particularly in
Speaker 1: the Super League era. I mean, I think we do
Speaker 1: have to put it in some context. I would teams
Speaker 1: like Castleford and Hull would love to have Saint Helen's
Speaker 1: problems right now. But the fact of the matter is
Speaker 1: for Saint Helen's and Saint helens fans this is this
Speaker 1: is a really poor period.
Speaker 2: You did mention.
Speaker 1: Games traveling overseas, so there's been announcements of games in
Speaker 1: Dublin and also you mentioned something about a Manchester event.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about roles. I know Wigan Wigan were the
Speaker 1: first to announce, but because we're on Saint Helens and
Speaker 1: Hull left C and they're playing each other over there,
Speaker 1: thought this will be a good time to talk about
Speaker 1: this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So on Wednesday.
Speaker 3: Warrington and Wigan held event at an Irish bar in Manchester,
Speaker 3: which I think is situated in what was the Island
Speaker 3: or what was you know, an area where many Irish
Speaker 3: migrants came many many years ago. I mean, we all
Speaker 3: knew that we're going to play in Dublin in twenty seven.
Speaker 3: I think I actually broke the story in the ipaper
Speaker 3: last year, but it's taken them a long while to
Speaker 3: now down the date where they.
Speaker 2: Could do it.
Speaker 3: So April twenty four, on the Saturday, they're going to
Speaker 3: play at the I think it's called the Layer Arena,
Speaker 3: which is the home ground of Leinster Rugby Union Club.
Speaker 3: Capacity about twenty thousand, and it is the first ever
Speaker 3: Super League game in Ireland. So you know, I think
Speaker 3: it's a great idea. I'm a big, big supporter of
Speaker 3: the venture.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think Wigan and Warrington have kind of been flag
Speaker 3: bearers standard barrs for this, you know, playing games in
Speaker 3: Paris and Barcelona and Vegas.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I went to the event. There was
Speaker 2: a well done event.
Speaker 3: You know, you've got to kind of do these things
Speaker 3: if you want to break out of the bubble and
Speaker 3: get publicity from different sources and make an impact.
Speaker 2: And I thought they did that really well.
Speaker 3: But we all kind of knew that there was talks
Speaker 3: about another game on that weekend and I think Hull,
Speaker 3: See and Wakefield had been reported as interested, but there
Speaker 3: was no announcement.
Speaker 2: There's no joined up thinking. And then it was twenty four.
Speaker 3: You know, when a lot of people, most of me,
Speaker 3: had already booked their flights that there will be a
Speaker 3: game on the Sunday between So I think not to
Speaker 3: be negative, but it's just kind of a sign that
Speaker 3: can't we, you know, work together and you know, have
Speaker 3: a strategy, have a national coordinator or a central strategy
Speaker 3: to do these things as one.
Speaker 1: Strategy is the key word. Let's let's unpack it, let's
Speaker 1: critically analyze it a little bit. You said during your
Speaker 1: discussion of it there you think it's a good idea
Speaker 1: and a breakout moment, et cetera. Just maybe in the
Speaker 1: last five years, just give us a little summary, how
Speaker 1: many games have been played overseas, how many Super League
Speaker 1: games have been played overseas, with the exception of Cattle
Speaker 1: Amazon to lose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, with the exception
Speaker 2: of France.
Speaker 3: Well, obviously Vegas this year, whole current Leeds Paris, we're
Speaker 3: going to play Catlands in Paris. The year before we're
Speaker 3: going to Warrant and played in Vegas. I think it
Speaker 3: was twenty nineteen. We can played excuse me, Catlands at
Speaker 3: the New Camp before that, I I've seen we can
Speaker 3: took games to to a game to Wollongong and each
Speaker 3: played a game in Sydney against the Nant er old team,
Speaker 3: which I think, off the top of my head, I'm
Speaker 3: going to say that was twenty seventeen. Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 3: seems like a million years ago. But the idea, and
Speaker 3: I'll just explain quickly, I think it's a good idea
Speaker 3: because I don't think, particularly the situation the rugby leagues
Speaker 3: in it needs to get new fans, it needs to
Speaker 3: get younger fans, and it needs to get fans for
Speaker 3: each over. And I think in Ireland they love their sport.
Speaker 3: There is a latent support. I think there are some
Speaker 3: rugby league fans, but there are sports fans who may
Speaker 3: be attracted to this game. They may watch it. I
Speaker 3: think it's not an expensive, you know trip, although Dublin's
Speaker 3: not the cheapest city, but it's close to these places
Speaker 3: so it's not hard to get to. It's not Vegas,
Speaker 3: it's not Australia, and I think it's doing something different.
Speaker 2: You know, other sports do it.
Speaker 3: Rugula league does it as well, and you know, I
Speaker 3: think it's Yeah, I think it can be a positive
Speaker 3: if it's done right, if it's done well and you know,
Speaker 3: marketing properly.
Speaker 1: I do have concerns about our fans who, particularly if
Speaker 1: you're a fan of a club such as a Wigan
Speaker 1: or I was going to say Saint Helen's them, but
Speaker 1: leads or someone okay, are right now you're constantly depending
Speaker 1: in your pocket for yes for these trips. One of
Speaker 1: the reasons we are told the Challenge Cup isn't working
Speaker 1: from people who are trying to analyze why that crowd
Speaker 1: has dwindled over the years is that there's too many
Speaker 1: big events. So to add another give me some concern. Secondly,
Speaker 1: when did we go to Barcelona? Was it twenty nineteen?
Speaker 1: Did you say how much bigger is the game in
Speaker 1: that region since we went there? How many more fans
Speaker 1: are tuning into the Super League in the NRL Vegas,
Speaker 1: how many more fans are tuning in in America? And
Speaker 1: we've been going there for four years now, and what
Speaker 1: is the uptake of rugby league since then?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: I know that the comeback there is we've got to
Speaker 1: start somewhere. Yes, Well, one thing we've done too much
Speaker 1: of in rugby league is start somewhere and then move
Speaker 1: on from it. And I would already argue we've done
Speaker 1: that in Barcelona only a matter of seven years ago.
Speaker 1: The other thing is you mentioned new fans. There's places
Speaker 1: a lot closer to Wigan who left C Saint Helen's
Speaker 1: and Warrington where we can get new fans as well.
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm split in the sense that yes, I'd love to
Speaker 1: see a rugby league game in Dublin, but I also
Speaker 1: really want to see a strategy in Dublin as well,
Speaker 1: so make sure that game is bigger in Ireland in
Speaker 1: ten years time, twenty years time. And that's a difference
Speaker 1: between tactics and strategy. Tactics are short term ways of
Speaker 1: getting towards your strategy. This is smacking to me of
Speaker 1: all tactics and no strategy. At least Vegas is a strategy.
Speaker 1: It's to try it.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Whether that strategy is working or not is a completely
Speaker 1: different issue. And there's enough to suggest that PVL and
Speaker 1: the NRL am getting everything that they want from the
Speaker 1: original plan and they've actually pivoted on what the goal is.
Speaker 1: What Vegas has turned into is it completely dominates the
Speaker 1: Australian media landscape. That does so sometimes sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: it was like when I initially started my rugby league
Speaker 1: coach business, I didn't think I'd been doing podcasts on
Speaker 1: the Super League and things like that, so you do pivot.
Speaker 1: So I want to know what the strategy is. And
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily asking John Davidson. I'm asking the Rugby
Speaker 1: League fraternity. I'm asking the Irish diaspora. What is the strategy?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean I think I think the strategy
Speaker 3: for wiging to Warranton is different to what the strategy
Speaker 3: for lack of strategy is for the RFL or Super League.
Speaker 2: I've got no.
Speaker 3: You know, false ideas that this is part of a
Speaker 3: coordinator strategy and we're going to have games in Ireland
Speaker 3: for the next ten years. But having been to Vegas
Speaker 3: and having been to Barcelona, I can see that, you know,
Speaker 3: the impact is has on the fans who go, who
Speaker 3: have a fantastic time, who energized about their sport, about
Speaker 3: their community, about their club. You know, I went to
Speaker 3: Vegae somewhat maybe skeptical or before the first round, before
Speaker 3: the first year. I went in the second year watching
Speaker 3: it on TV, but it looked and sounded great on
Speaker 3: the box. And having gone to Vegas, it is just
Speaker 3: a remarkable thing to be there with all these Rugby
Speaker 3: League fans in Vegas. Passing stevens on the strip and
Speaker 3: you playing in an amazing stadium. So and as you mentioned
Speaker 3: about dominating the media, which it does in Australia, it
Speaker 3: basically knocks all the other sports off. So I think
Speaker 3: that Vegas does supercharge the sport in the NRL. And
Speaker 3: I think these ventures in well just one in Dublin
Speaker 3: obviously not only does it grab headlines and grub publicity,
Speaker 3: I think it's a you know, it's a greater way
Speaker 3: day for the fans of those clubs, but also I
Speaker 3: don't think it'll be ten thousand Warranton fans and ten
Speaker 3: thousand Wiggan fans.
Speaker 2: I think that might be four or five thousand or.
Speaker 3: More Irish fans at the game or people interested who
Speaker 3: are going to have a look. And I know they've
Speaker 3: already used Danny Farrell, who's obviously, you know, an English
Speaker 3: ruguy League legend or Wigan legend, and who's the head
Speaker 3: coach of the Island national team. Is you know, a
Speaker 3: massive figure rugby union. They already used him to promote
Speaker 3: the game, and yeah, I'm sure his employers are happy
Speaker 3: about that. Well, look, he's a wiganer, isn't he. Isn't
Speaker 3: he a friend of isn't he a friend of yours, lou.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know him. Yeah, I'm not talking to him.
Speaker 1: You work with him, Yeah, you worked with him.
Speaker 2: He's a wiginner at heart and I don't think that
Speaker 2: that changes.
Speaker 1: As a Rugby League tweet of the week was from
Speaker 1: Carlos Alberto. I don't think it's the Carlos Alberto because
Speaker 1: his tweeting handle is with zero's where the o's should be.
Speaker 1: And he said, and this is a nice segue, Ryan
Speaker 1: Carter Saints with a question mark, nice calm environment doing
Speaker 1: wonders and of course he is referring to the Cattleford coach.
Speaker 1: So there's a situation. And there they played.
Speaker 2: Whole k Ar.
Speaker 1: We'll go through the scorer first, and I think this
Speaker 1: is indicative of the week. The matches are almost a
Speaker 1: side show to some of the things that's gone on.
Speaker 1: It was a win that took whole KR to fourth
Speaker 1: Castleford nil u k R forty four. Two tries from Davis,
Speaker 1: two tries from may Lytton at Burgess, Hickham and Martin
Speaker 1: were on the score sheet. Martin kicked five goals and
Speaker 1: I think he was so tired of kicking goals he
Speaker 1: gave the kicking duty to Hampshire to knock over another
Speaker 1: that six second half tries that they scored and their
Speaker 1: whole kr are up to fourth and they've of course
Speaker 1: got to play Warrington at some point in this coming century.
Speaker 1: Now Tuesday, is it Tuesday? Is it in Dublin something?
Speaker 2: No, it might not be. I don't think it's this ESDA.
Speaker 2: I think it's Tuesday. After we'll check the fixtures at
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's have another forty minute podcast segment.
Speaker 2: Ryan Carr.
Speaker 1: This broke not long after released last week's podcast, and
Speaker 1: it's still not been sorted and nobody still knows. Sorry,
Speaker 1: still nobody knows the real situation. Although there's plenty of speculation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's plenty of rumor. There's plenty of speculation, plenty
Speaker 3: of gossip. The whole thing's quite bizarre. Obviously, it's been
Speaker 3: a pretty terrible season for Cat and you've seen Ryan
Speaker 3: Carr get increasingly.
Speaker 2: Angry with pretty much each game, each presser.
Speaker 3: He's not hid his feelings about his players, or some
Speaker 3: of his players.
Speaker 2: Obviously.
Speaker 3: We had the Leeds game a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 3: where he could be heard yelling fucking cheat, which was
Speaker 3: picked up by the sky cameras, which the RFL went
Speaker 3: to cast, but the please explain. Then came the game
Speaker 3: against Warrington where there's been allegations about a spray at halftime,
Speaker 3: and then soon after obviously there was a report that
Speaker 3: he'd been stood down pending in investigation, and then a
Speaker 3: couple of days later Cass decided to put out a
Speaker 3: statement which said stepping well, step aside for personal reason.
Speaker 2: So we don't really know what the truth is.
Speaker 3: I've contacted a lot of people and no one seems
Speaker 3: to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's very.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not gonna I'm not going to share
Speaker 3: any of the rumors out there, but yeah, there's there's
Speaker 3: varying tales.
Speaker 2: I I might summarize the rumors.
Speaker 1: Sure, there's a bit of a spiky character and may
Speaker 1: have said some choice things to players at some point,
Speaker 1: may have even it may have even gone further than
Speaker 1: that with a staff member. So yes, I must stress
Speaker 1: somebody this is all that's all speculation, And obviously there's
Speaker 1: some legal thing, legal implications if they're trying to move
Speaker 1: him on or something like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I think the question for you, Lee
Speaker 2: is being a coach.
Speaker 3: Many times, I'm particularly with I guess the modern player,
Speaker 3: how many times you know, and say, a twenty seven
Speaker 3: game season, how many times can you spray them or
Speaker 3: you know, go off your brain give them the hair dryer,
Speaker 3: so to speak, in a season?
Speaker 2: Can you do that once? Can you do that twice?
Speaker 2: Can you do that three times?
Speaker 1: Like is look, if you'd have to switch off? If
Speaker 1: you have asked me five years ago, I would have
Speaker 1: come up with the trope. You know, yeah, you've got
Speaker 1: to save your spray this, that and the other.
Speaker 2: It's funny.
Speaker 1: Most of the people who who say these things in
Speaker 1: media environments coached in the eighties and the nineties and
Speaker 1: then and then and then talk about that. I actually
Speaker 1: think you're modern player. You can be firm and you
Speaker 1: can give boundaries, but what you can't be is disrespectful.
Speaker 1: And we're talking to the most educated and opinionated. If
Speaker 1: you like playing group in world rugby league history, so
Speaker 1: many of them will have knowledge about what's right and
Speaker 1: wrong in what is essentially a workplace in professional rugby league.
Speaker 2: Okay, and.
Speaker 1: It just won't wash anymore if you are going off
Speaker 1: your brain, if you're absolutely losing your mind and questioning
Speaker 1: everybody's everything. But that said, if you are genuinely angry,
Speaker 1: there's no problem. I think it crosses the boundary when
Speaker 1: and I'm not say justin Ryan Carr has done this
Speaker 1: at all, But when anger turns into disrespect, anger turns
Speaker 1: into abuse, anger turns into aggression, that's when it becomes
Speaker 1: a problem. My big issue with this is obviously something's
Speaker 1: not right at Castleford. Yeah, this is a matter of
Speaker 1: months since Ryan Carr got the job. If it is
Speaker 1: alleged or proven that Ryan Carr was not the person
Speaker 1: they thought, he was not of sound character for the
Speaker 1: Castleford organization or sound enough character for the organization, what
Speaker 1: research did they do on this person prior to appointing him,
Speaker 1: or did they take the path of least resistance? Listen
Speaker 1: to agents, go with the agents giving them the best
Speaker 1: offer and the best pitch, which is probably closer to
Speaker 1: the mark. And there's something to be said when clubs
Speaker 1: churn through coaches, or when clubs have problems with coaches continually.
Speaker 2: And it's the.
Speaker 1: Same at Saint Helen's right now, and it's the same
Speaker 1: at all LEFC right now. At some point you've got
Speaker 1: to look at the recruiters.
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting you mentioned that because Chris Chester, who's
Speaker 3: the director of rugby and sort of as one of
Speaker 3: the people have taken over the coaching duties. In the moment,
Speaker 3: he did depressed and he admitted he'd got some of
Speaker 3: the recruiting decisions are on.
Speaker 2: But I think for me, I mean, the whole I
Speaker 2: think a way castle.
Speaker 3: Handle it, you know, not really telling their fans and
Speaker 3: not really providing much clarity hasn't been great. But the
Speaker 3: question now for me is can he stay on in
Speaker 3: this job, like after what's happened, after you know, the
Speaker 3: kind of the whole the public perception out there, and
Speaker 3: there seems to be I think, I think I read online.
Speaker 3: I didn't watch a game on Friday because I was
Speaker 3: watching the Leeds Wakefield game and it was on at
Speaker 3: the same time. But there was people fans changing Brian
Speaker 3: Carr's name, So there is some support there and on
Speaker 3: the fan base for him. But he signed a lot
Speaker 3: of players, a lot from the Dragons, his old club,
Speaker 3: So you know what I mean, where does that stand
Speaker 3: in terms of those players that wanting to come to
Speaker 3: cast Is his position now there untenable? It's just it's
Speaker 3: just a real mess because it's been such a weird
Speaker 3: season for Casts. They've beaten Wigan, they've beaten Leeds and
Speaker 3: then they've you know, they've I think Warrington been by eighty,
Speaker 3: didn't they or put eighty on them and they've just
Speaker 3: been absolutely rubbish, you know, four times out of five.
Speaker 3: But they've been able to pull out some great performances
Speaker 3: as well. So it's a really just bizarre season that.
Speaker 1: They've had struble to see how this job is tenable
Speaker 1: for Ryan Carr now because it's not. It's not as
Speaker 1: if it's not not as if the statement of him
Speaker 1: being stepped down due to personal reasons was full of
Speaker 1: love from Castle For directors, it was, you know, we
Speaker 1: hope Ryan gets There was nothing like we hope Ryan
Speaker 1: gets through this issue or anything like that and we
Speaker 1: support him in his journey. There was no there was
Speaker 1: no love shown at all. So they're obviously in damage control.
Speaker 1: And again a little bit like the Saint Helen's situation
Speaker 1: in particular, and when you don't put out a lot
Speaker 1: of information it allows people to speculate.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think these situations, the way they
Speaker 3: stay in a club chandle is it's kind of rare
Speaker 3: and missing over how backward they are. They still think
Speaker 3: it's the nineteen eighties. They don't act like a sports
Speaker 3: club in the twenty first century. You know, you've got
Speaker 3: to you've got to treat your fans with a bit
Speaker 3: more respect and a bit more accountability and transparency.
Speaker 1: I was at Super League. I was in Super League
Speaker 1: and wiggan and sulted in the era of progressive media management. Now,
Speaker 1: we we were taught to be the total opposite. And
Speaker 1: some of this was coming from head office or the
Speaker 1: head offices of Super League and Rugby Football League two
Speaker 1: and I must I must emphasize that the super League
Speaker 1: head office seemed a lot more with it than the
Speaker 1: Rugby Football League. We were encouraged to be proactive with
Speaker 1: the media, to drive the media narrative, not to sit
Speaker 1: there and wait for it to happen or go into
Speaker 1: damage control.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of that has changed because of
Speaker 3: the Internet and now because clubs create their own content
Speaker 3: and they want to interview their own players and provide exclusives,
Speaker 3: exclusive interview with their own player, So they don't they
Speaker 3: limit access and they limit their engagements with the media
Speaker 3: when they should be the complete opposite. They should be operating,
Speaker 3: you know, like boxing and trying to create interests, create engagement,
Speaker 3: sell stories, and you know, build their players up.
Speaker 2: But they don't. They don't do that.
Speaker 1: Lee twenty two job Benison of York fourteen because he's
Speaker 1: the only person who scored for them. Lee's twenty two
Speaker 1: came from Charlie Off and Gwie bad Rock and Armstrong
Speaker 1: and Cook kicked three goals. York's fourteen came from John Benison,
Speaker 1: who's scored a hat trick and kicked a goal. Was
Speaker 1: he playing them on his own?
Speaker 2: John? We'll watching the highlights of this. It was.
Speaker 3: It was quite a close game. You're coming right back
Speaker 3: into it late. But yeah, Luckie Lamp set up quite
Speaker 3: a few tries. Another good win for Lee. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I think York were certainly not embarrassed. They were they
Speaker 3: were riding it. They are important victory for Lee when
Speaker 3: we're looking at this, this mash of app of playoffs
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, with the form whole and
Speaker 3: Lee and the former son alnds and I mean we
Speaker 3: said this, I said this last week. I can't see
Speaker 3: sin Alans make the six now that basically need to
Speaker 3: win every game, which I think they've got a buggerol
Speaker 3: chance of happening and then rely on some of the
Speaker 3: others to lose games. So yeah, important two points for
Speaker 3: fully well.
Speaker 1: Saint Helens could only dream of the form Lee and
Speaker 1: York have shown lately. Lee have won six of the
Speaker 1: last seven and York have got a four and three record,
Speaker 1: so they've won four and lost three of their last seven,
Speaker 1: so they're doing okay. Now, the game I'm really keen
Speaker 1: to talk about is Wakefield and Leeds. Before this weekend,
Speaker 1: Weggy had won their last seven and Leeds have now
Speaker 1: won nine of their last ten and hammered most of
Speaker 1: the sides that they've played. They've been in real good
Speaker 1: for Wakefield played Leads on Friday night in what was
Speaker 1: commonly referred to as match of the Round, that almost
Speaker 1: match of the season. Wakefield twenty two Leeds twenty four
Speaker 1: tries for Wakefield a hamling U, La Myers and Simfield
Speaker 1: who also kick three goals. Leads try some craft, McDonald,
Speaker 1: smith and Hankinson of four goals to Connor. Late drama
Speaker 1: too and they are now well ahead. They're four points ahead,
Speaker 1: or there were four points ahead, I should say. After
Speaker 1: the game tell us about it, John, Yeah, this was
Speaker 1: fantastic attainment really really enjoyed this game. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: probably one of the games of the season. Wakefield sell
Speaker 1: out there started like a house on file, raced ahead
Speaker 1: Jackson Field was really impressive for them and then Leeds
Speaker 1: came back, but it looked like Wakefield were going to
Speaker 1: hold on and then it was you know, I think
Speaker 1: it was a try from a kick they couldn't deal
Speaker 1: with about two to three minutes ago.
Speaker 3: You know, sensational come back from Leeds. I think it
Speaker 3: really showed the Leeds do have the character and the
Speaker 3: grit to fight back. You know, they really needed to
Speaker 3: pull that one out of the bag. Cameron Smith came
Speaker 3: on to the bench and just changed the game with
Speaker 3: you know, with his ball running for Leeds and yeah,
Speaker 3: just a sensational win for Leeds. I think, you know,
Speaker 3: they've got lead this this Thursday, and they've got within
Speaker 3: in a couple of weeks. But I think with the
Speaker 3: lead now on the table, I think they've got one
Speaker 3: hand on the league leader shield.
Speaker 2: I think they'll win it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, Wakefield, we're certainly not embarrassed. I think the
Speaker 3: only thing with them is that they did seem to
Speaker 3: run a bit of a puff. You know, maybe a
Speaker 3: fitness in that later game that they looked a bit tired, but.
Speaker 1: A mental maybe, sorry, Johnny, might be a mental thing,
Speaker 1: just you know, just being in a tight game with
Speaker 1: somebody that they're trying to catch up within the ladder
Speaker 1: well from us, just learning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a mental mental thing.
Speaker 1: Get us get the psychologist in or our huge psychologist skills.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean it was a forty hours at Bellevue,
Speaker 3: look great on the box, really good entertainment and that's
Speaker 3: you know, I think that's the kind of the best.
Speaker 2: Of super Leaue. We need more games like that.
Speaker 3: There's been a few, quite a few this round that
Speaker 3: were that were pretty dire, but that was that was
Speaker 3: a standout.
Speaker 2: Was a great game.
Speaker 1: Now, there was a match in Huddersfield this weekend and
Speaker 1: we'll get to that in about three hours. Johnny's tweet
Speaker 1: of the week, and I've also labeled this Johnny's jab
Speaker 1: Johnny Roll. You can dress it up anywhere you like.
Speaker 1: It's a terrible call. Moving out of your own city
Speaker 1: is a slow march to oblivion. Now, those who were
Speaker 1: switched on, they know that we are talking about Huddersfield's
Speaker 1: announcement that everybody seemed to know for the last three
Speaker 1: months that they're moving to Dewsbury. I think we've there
Speaker 1: unleashed on Dewsbury.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I heard about it, Manti. I think
Speaker 3: we've been talking about in the podcast for probably six weeks,
Speaker 3: haven't we. Yeah, it's just the whole thing. I mean,
Speaker 3: the fact that there's was the biggest announcement in the
Speaker 3: club's history.
Speaker 2: Will now it wasn't.
Speaker 3: And they're moving to Dewsbury, which is quite the flating,
Speaker 3: and they don't have a return duate of when they're
Speaker 3: moving back to Huddersfield, so that's not good. Apparently, you know,
Speaker 3: the comments from people who are at the game, the
Speaker 3: announcement didn't go down very well. The fans at hudders
Speaker 3: Field who were actually can you imagine them.
Speaker 1: Screaming, yes, we're moving out of town tojews three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, no plan to return to Huddersfield.
Speaker 3: The the the advertisement or whatever you want have called
Speaker 3: the promotion they did, you know, using AI just looked terrible.
Speaker 3: They're spending so Jewsbury Stadium the first time. It's not
Speaker 3: actually of a super League standard, so they're spending ten
Speaker 3: million pounds and they're fixing that up. So that's great
Speaker 3: for Jewsbury, it's great for the Dewsbury Rams. But you know,
Speaker 3: is that the best way to spend that ten million quid?
Speaker 3: Could you not spend that ten million good on marketing
Speaker 3: and promoting your cob to stage development?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah pathways. What what's the AMG thing? When do
Speaker 1: they announce?
Speaker 2: So that won't really.
Speaker 3: Until till October, so I think it's either just before
Speaker 3: the end of the season or just after it.
Speaker 1: It's basically wasn't there some speculation two weeks ago that
Speaker 1: something to do with led screens Huddersfield's ground.
Speaker 3: Yes, so Huddersfield Town, who now owned the a Q Stadium,
Speaker 3: are putting in LED screens at that stadium, which Huddersfield
Speaker 3: Giants won't be playing it next year. But the fact
Speaker 3: is that I'm jo criteria looks back at the last
Speaker 3: two to three years, doesn't look forward. So you know,
Speaker 3: they could be getting points for a stadium that they
Speaker 3: won't be playing it next year.
Speaker 1: They could say they're playing a Huddersfield underbank. They'd get announced, sorry,
Speaker 1: they'd get assessed on the last three years, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I found a flaw in the system.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there was I think there was eight
Speaker 3: and a half thousand fans at Huddersfield for that cat
Speaker 3: Len's game.
Speaker 2: Now, the tickets were free, so anyone could go.
Speaker 3: But the average, I think they're average for most weeks
Speaker 3: is you know, three and a half to four thousand.
Speaker 3: How many of those are actually going to go to
Speaker 3: Jewsbury each week? Well, if they, if they if we're
Speaker 3: going to go, I mean if.
Speaker 1: They, if they can, if they can get eight thousand
Speaker 1: people to come in for free, that suggests to me
Speaker 1: there's at least eight thousand who are interested to an extent.
Speaker 1: That also means that obviously means there's another two three
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about going to Gewsbury, John, I'm talking
Speaker 1: about Huddersfield. There's eight thousand people who are interested in
Speaker 1: going to watch Huddersfield in Huddersfield. Okay, that by natural attrition.
Speaker 1: There will also be some who are interested but couldn't
Speaker 1: make it on Saturday whenever it was. So that suggests
Speaker 1: to me there's still some life in Huddersfield if they
Speaker 1: want to try and if they want to try and
Speaker 1: attack it. Now there are some advantages commercially aren't they
Speaker 1: to go into Jewsbury.
Speaker 2: In terms of ability to.
Speaker 1: Grow grow things on that not grow but build things
Speaker 1: on the land in and around Newsbury. But again there's
Speaker 1: a problem there. They're trying to market it as a
Speaker 1: medium term change. So my question is when they're coming
Speaker 1: back to Huddersfield, and I don't think we can we
Speaker 1: can have that answer. Now, I've done some research, Johnny,
Speaker 1: about sports clubs in the UK which have changed location
Speaker 1: over time. Now again rugby league does this. Sometimes we
Speaker 1: tend to look to America and Australia tends to look
Speaker 1: at America too. So obviously in Australia, South Sydney don't
Speaker 1: play in their suburb, they play in Western Sydney. And
Speaker 1: there's numerous examples of teams in Australia or Sydney, same city,
Speaker 1: same city. But I can I can very much imagine
Speaker 1: that the people are Redfern don't associate with many of
Speaker 1: those in Western Sydney, so's there's slight difficulties there. America,
Speaker 1: in the NFL, there's some significant distances between city or
Speaker 1: town of origin and their home ground. The difference with
Speaker 1: the NRL and Super League is the size of the
Speaker 1: sport but the difference between the NFL, the NRL and
Speaker 1: Super League is the size of the sport closer to
Speaker 1: home in the UK. So there's been minor boundary shifts
Speaker 1: that have affected the Manchester United, for example, play in
Speaker 1: the borough of Trafford. MK Doms originated as Winwood and
Speaker 1: they've relocated over sixty miles north to Milton Keynes. So
Speaker 1: let's let's think about these teams now. So MK Dons
Speaker 1: number one London Broncos in Rugby League, they've frequently shifted
Speaker 1: outside the capital and full seasons outside in Ealing and Wimbledon, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just they've gone. They've gone from North London,
Speaker 2: the East London.
Speaker 1: They maybe maybe certain boundaries are not quite the same.
Speaker 1: Coventry City so but we use London. So number two
Speaker 1: London Coventry City. Because of stadium disputes, they spent one
Speaker 1: season thirty miles away at Northampton and three seasons I
Speaker 1: think at St Andrew's in Birmingham. So that's the third one.
Speaker 1: And they've Charlton Athletics. Sorry, late nineteen eighties and early
Speaker 1: nineties they played elsewhere apart from the Valley. They went
Speaker 1: to Selhurst Park and also Upton Park, home of west
Speaker 1: Ham for whatever reason. Now, so there's four teams there.
Speaker 1: How many of them are absolutely maximizing their potential as
Speaker 1: a sports organization right now. I don't know, well, Coventry
Speaker 1: have just arrived in the Premier League, but I can
Speaker 1: promise you that this is a Coventry that in the
Speaker 1: mid eighties won the FA Cup and since then have
Speaker 1: been very much a yo yo side. London Broncos. There's
Speaker 1: been nine attempts to re establish London as a rugby
Speaker 1: league entity professionalist, so there's quite a lot of historical
Speaker 1: data to suggest that it's not quite worked yet. And
Speaker 1: the others that we mentioned Wimbledon turning into MK Doms.
Speaker 1: They won the FA Cup in the eighties and they
Speaker 1: were a Premier League side, and where are they now?
Speaker 3: That works so badly that they set up wimbled and
Speaker 3: I have seed they set up a Phoenix club and
Speaker 3: then I think that's club's gone quite well or went
Speaker 3: into Lee one or two. I'm not I mean, I
Speaker 3: just don't. I think we could talk about this ad nauseam.
Speaker 3: But I think as a tweet I saw a few
Speaker 3: tweets I saw from the amateurish rugby league and hero
Speaker 3: he or she. I don't know who runs it. I
Speaker 3: don't understand this spawning over Ken Davies, some sort of
Speaker 3: rugby league hero, blindly pumping in millions a year after
Speaker 3: year with no clear strategy, no noticeable growth. Isn't investing,
Speaker 3: it's squandering. Worse, He's squandered millions of central funding too.
Speaker 3: They've had years to arrange an alternative home in Huddersfield,
Speaker 3: They've chose to leave it to last minute, to a
Speaker 3: point Ralph Emmer of all people to oversee it, and
Speaker 3: they've been left with having to make a reactive move
Speaker 3: to Tewsbury. Spare me the fawning and pity party. In
Speaker 3: quotation marks, he's made the club survived and in quotation
Speaker 3: marks they've had no choice.
Speaker 2: Bollocks. I would love to have seen what someone else
Speaker 2: with the same money could have achieved with Hddessfield in
Speaker 2: three decades.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: Obviously, Ken Davey or anybody throwing their money into anything
Speaker 1: has the absolute freedom to do whatever the heck they
Speaker 1: want with their money. But when you put it into
Speaker 1: a sports club, I think the fans that pay their
Speaker 1: hard earned to goal do have the right to voice
Speaker 1: their opinions and support us cutters and forums, etc. I'll
Speaker 1: go back to my original point that when they allowed
Speaker 1: people to come into their ground for free, there were
Speaker 1: over eight thousand people that turned up. And the reason
Speaker 1: that eight thousand is very important is I can't imagine
Speaker 1: four thousand of them flew from the south of France
Speaker 1: to watch the Catalans. So there would have been a
Speaker 1: very small contingent from the south of France and the
Speaker 1: rest would have been you'd imagine Huddersfield people or people
Speaker 1: hit interested in the Huddersfield Giants, and then in terms
Speaker 1: of natural attrition and just life, there would have been
Speaker 1: others that wanted to go but couldn't make it. So
Speaker 1: that suggests to me that at the moment they're deciding
Speaker 1: to leave town, to leave Huddersfield, they are sitting on
Speaker 1: a potential gold mine that with some long term and
Speaker 1: with some sustained strategy rather than tactics. Is what we
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier with regards to Dublin, with a long term strategy,
Speaker 1: they could get far better outcomes exactly where they are now.
Speaker 1: I do understand that the Huddersfield Stadium is big, that
Speaker 1: it's cavernous, that it's not necessarily filled to the brim. However,
Speaker 1: they don't even maximize that. When the cameras are there,
Speaker 1: they don't put many fans in front of the camera.
Speaker 1: They don't do anything to cover the seats. I mean,
Speaker 1: this happens in Australia too. The big stadium in home
Speaker 1: Bush is rarely full, but they put you know, the
Speaker 1: rabbitoes might be at home, They'll put a massive rabbit
Speaker 1: tooes banner over the seats. That just makes it look different,
Speaker 1: makes it makes it look a bit more populated for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, or makes the seats irrelevant basically. So there's
Speaker 1: so many things they could do. I'm disappointed they're going
Speaker 1: to Dewsbury. I know there may be commercial things that matter,
Speaker 1: but the fundamental fact of the matter is they're basically
Speaker 1: admitting that they failed in Huddersfield. And in ten years time,
Speaker 1: in twenty years time, are they going to be called
Speaker 1: the Giants or are they going to be called Huddersfield
Speaker 1: rams or they're going to be called HU Huddersfield Jewsberry Rams. Also,
Speaker 1: Jewsbury rams Field is about as big as my laptop screen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's a blue venue, is it. It's not
Speaker 3: up to standard and you can break it down many
Speaker 3: different ways. I think they are averaging twenty eight ninety
Speaker 3: years ago when they when they finished top of the
Speaker 3: league and no one was complaining about the atmosphere. Then no,
Speaker 3: And they've basically gone back backwards since then, and the
Speaker 3: lads trimbled away. And a big part of that, I
Speaker 3: think is the lack of engagement with the fans, the
Speaker 3: lack of marketing of the club, the poor leadership of
Speaker 3: the club.
Speaker 2: You know, people, the way they've tried to spin this.
Speaker 3: The majority of people, and I think the majority of
Speaker 3: have to fancy it is the absolute dog's breakfast.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: And despite that, John, there's still eight thousand people who
Speaker 1: decided to come and watch them at the weekend.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: To be honestly, I don't really think that's much of
Speaker 3: a market because that's just a freebie.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I think it's still time, it's still time, it's still effort.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they've done this, They've done this several times
Speaker 3: over the last ten years. And I think they got
Speaker 3: paid on nine thousand or maybe even ten thousand another game.
Speaker 2: But they don't turn up every week, or they don't because.
Speaker 1: They don't get engaged. That's the Yeah, it's like it's
Speaker 1: like email. It's like emailing strategies John that if somebody
Speaker 1: shows a little bit of interest. Businesses do this all
Speaker 1: the time. Somebody shows a little bit of interest, you
Speaker 1: capture some of their data and you text them or
Speaker 1: email them, and you know what you have to do.
Speaker 1: You know what the average amount of touch points around
Speaker 1: the business world. And this used to happen when there
Speaker 1: was no Internet and you used to walk past a
Speaker 1: shop or a restaurant or something like that. The average
Speaker 1: is twenty touch points, right, twenty touch points in terms
Speaker 1: of walking past a shop and going, oh, I think
Speaker 1: I'll go in that shop, or walk past that shop,
Speaker 1: Oh I need something now, or go in that shop
Speaker 1: or that restaurant. And social media is the same. That's
Speaker 1: why if you look at any business coaching manual, if
Speaker 1: you look at any social media influencers who say this
Speaker 1: is how you market, etc. They talk about constant engagement,
Speaker 1: and they talk about how you can't just do one
Speaker 1: thing and then help.
Speaker 2: Everybody will just run. And that's the problem.
Speaker 1: It's not the fact that that The fact of the
Speaker 1: matter is, and I've said this four times now, a
Speaker 1: thing there's eight thousand people who cared enough to go
Speaker 1: to that to that game. There's plenty of other things
Speaker 1: you can do on a Saturday afternoon in West Yorkshire
Speaker 1: right near a train with a train station that you
Speaker 1: can go everywhere right and literally everywhere around the country
Speaker 1: if you want as well. There's so many things you
Speaker 1: can do. It's a historical town and city, plus people
Speaker 1: have different interests. Eight thousand people wanted to go to
Speaker 1: that game. To me, if they spent the next twenty
Speaker 1: years cultivating that properly, things would get better in Huddersfield.
Speaker 1: I'm really disappointed they leaving to go to Jewsbury. I
Speaker 1: really am.
Speaker 2: Well, considering they've already pissed off a large majority of
Speaker 2: their existing fan base. I don't think that's going to happen.
Speaker 3: What's not going to happen. I don't think they're going
Speaker 3: to grow their existing fan base. I don't think you know,
Speaker 3: they're going to be getting bigger crowds that they've got
Speaker 3: in Jewsbury.
Speaker 2: Then they're going to Now. I think the reverse will happen.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying no point did I ever say it
Speaker 1: would happen in Jewsbury.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Don't know, and the disappointing thing I think is I
Speaker 3: think that won three games in a row now, and
Speaker 3: they played very well on Saturday, and Jim Manning and
Speaker 3: obviously making a difference there and the players are responding,
Speaker 3: so theyre actually are getting some results. So you know,
Speaker 3: they played really well on Saturday, they scored some great tries.
Speaker 3: But I think the people running the club that are
Speaker 3: letting those paints the players down.
Speaker 1: I think it's awful. I yeah, yeah, we actually agree.
Speaker 1: We both agree. Okay, we're just looking at it from
Speaker 1: slightly different angles. Everything everything got Huddersfield right now in
Speaker 1: comparison to six weeks ago, is trending upwards. They're winning
Speaker 1: some games, and eight thousand people were minded to spend
Speaker 1: a few hours of their Saturday afternoon when there's so
Speaker 1: many other things to do, to turn up at that ground.
Speaker 1: With a proper strategy to engage those people and some
Speaker 1: patients and some care, they could get them over the line.
Speaker 1: And these people who turned up, So Huddersfield score forty
Speaker 1: two through households two tries, Rogers one, Wrench got two,
Speaker 1: Hewitt scored one and Dunford scored one. Flannagan kicked seven goals.
Speaker 1: Catalans only scored twenty points, two from Condon, one from Duralataur,
Speaker 1: another from Stains and two from Sexton and even the
Speaker 1: even that it was all about the ground announcement, nobody
Speaker 1: seems to care that they've won yet another game? Is
Speaker 1: that three on the bounce now?
Speaker 3: I think it is throughout the bouts and I mean
Speaker 3: obviously hollow to see one. But they keep this up,
Speaker 3: they may avoid the wooden spin, which you know, I
Speaker 3: think would be right achievement. There'd be a get out
Speaker 3: of jail on a moment, you know, for a vot
Speaker 3: conference for Jim Manahan and the job he's doing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was just look very underwhelming. Poorly.
Speaker 1: The whole thing has just been poor and I don't
Speaker 1: expect it to work. But yeah, Wigan played to lose
Speaker 1: before this, to lose, had two wins in five but
Speaker 1: now Wiggan have won ten on the bounce since the
Speaker 1: Grand since not the Grand Final, the Challenge Cup Final.
Speaker 1: After scoring eight tries to thump to lose forty eight
Speaker 1: eighteen Wiggans tries two from Eckersley, one from French quite
Speaker 1: ironic playing against the French side, two from Marshall, Hodkinson,
Speaker 1: Say and Field scored the others eight goals from Smith
Speaker 1: to lose. His eighteen came from Ulburg Tropis Rouge and
Speaker 1: Rouge kicked three goals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think to lose, you know, they had a
Speaker 3: real dig in the first half. It was quite close
Speaker 3: and then we're going to just roll over them second half.
Speaker 3: I mean the French field try where Bevan went through.
Speaker 2: And then kicked for Field to pick it up. That
Speaker 2: was just some lie.
Speaker 3: I think that that combination, that one two punch is
Speaker 3: you know, one of the best in Super League history,
Speaker 3: you know, whether it be fall back and five eight
Speaker 3: or fall back wing or wherever they've two sort of played.
Speaker 2: Obviously they've won a stack of trophies together in the
Speaker 2: five or six years that they've been together in Wigan.
Speaker 2: But they are so good together, you know, both usath Welsman,
Speaker 2: both indigenous, both quick, both skillful. Yeah, maybe there can
Speaker 2: be more players from New so Wells that can delight
Speaker 2: people in England.
Speaker 1: Bradford Bulls played Warrington. Warrington have had a fifty percent
Speaker 1: record since early June. Bradford Bulls hadn't won for a
Speaker 1: month and have been hammered a lot lately. To him,
Speaker 1: a bit worried about Bradford John they hosted, they hosted Warrington,
Speaker 1: but it was Bradford four with a try from Ryan Warrington,
Speaker 1: forty two two from Ashton, one from Hop POWARTI King Philbin,
Speaker 1: crowded and Irwin and Irwin kicks seven goals. Not good
Speaker 1: for Bradford. Things aren't looking good at the moment and
Speaker 1: they're now in the wooden spoon. I was going to
Speaker 1: call it a race, but I don't think anybody rushes together.
Speaker 2: No, no, they are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think tough times for Bradford. They've had a
Speaker 3: lot of injuries. You know, their performances have fallen away.
Speaker 3: I know they did go ahead early through you and
Speaker 3: Irwin got the opening try, but it was pretty much
Speaker 3: one way traffic from warrener and much after. The young
Speaker 3: halves are really clicking now with with Hazen and Irwin. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it looked looked quite a small crowd at odds as well,
Speaker 3: which is in a great a great look.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: I mean pretty much the game wasn't over at halftime,
Speaker 3: but it really ran away for them for Bradford.
Speaker 2: Later on in the second half we.
Speaker 1: Finally got to the table and I'll start at the bottom.
Speaker 1: Because we just referred to the bottom of the ladder.
Speaker 1: The Huddersfield Jewsbury Ram Giants are still bottom of the
Speaker 1: ladder on ten points. Bradford Bulls are only two points
Speaker 1: ahead of them. As our whole left C Bradford are
Speaker 1: on thirteenth or in thirteenth sorry with twelve Hull Left
Speaker 1: C after their win are in twelfth with twelve points.
Speaker 1: The points difference there is a real issue because I
Speaker 1: essentially think Hull Left C have done a very good
Speaker 1: done a very good job in beating Saint Helens and
Speaker 1: I think with the amount of games left, their points
Speaker 1: difference is going to be hard to turn round for
Speaker 1: Bradford Bulls, who are not informed at all. Castleford, despite
Speaker 1: their travies, are in eleventh and on fourteen with two
Speaker 1: other sides. York Knights are in tenth on fourteen to lose,
Speaker 1: are in ninth in fourteenth. They seem to have a
Speaker 1: mortgage on ninth to lose. If I'm honest, I've seem
Speaker 1: to have been saying that every week. Their French neighbors
Speaker 1: Catalans are in eighth on eighteen points. Saint Helen's are
Speaker 1: in seventh or twenty four, and John mentioned earlier they're
Speaker 1: probably not going to make the sixth because Lee Leopards
Speaker 1: are above them by four points on twenty eight. Hulkingston
Speaker 1: Rovers are in fifth now they did at one point
Speaker 1: get to fourth, but they've also played one less game
Speaker 1: and they're on twenty eight points. Warrington, who they play
Speaker 1: in that extra game, are in fourth on thirty points,
Speaker 1: two points ahead of full KR. Wakefield are in third
Speaker 1: on thirty two. By virtue of that defeat at the weekend,
Speaker 1: Wigan Warriors are now in second and they're definitely on
Speaker 1: the march in thirty four points, but Leeds are still
Speaker 1: in the summit on thirty six. We did mention the
Speaker 1: running and things like that. John, have you any reason
Speaker 1: to change your opinion on where teams will finish or
Speaker 1: anything like that as a result of fixture?
Speaker 2: No, not really.
Speaker 3: I mean I think the results pretty much went the
Speaker 3: way it was expected. I thought, I thought Saint Allen's
Speaker 3: might be f but their decline has continued, and I
Speaker 3: thought I did tip leads, but Wakefield I thought, we
Speaker 3: you know, we're a really good chance. But I think
Speaker 3: that really confirms that the leads are almost one hand
Speaker 3: on the league leader shield and I think with that
Speaker 3: loss now I can't see so I think it will
Speaker 3: just be that makeup of who finishes, you know, second,
Speaker 3: fourth fifty Leeds play Wigan before the end of it,
Speaker 3: do yeahs Leads have got lead this this Thursday, which
Speaker 3: is quite a big game, and then they've got Wigan
Speaker 3: in a couple of weeks and Wakefield have got Wigan
Speaker 3: as well. I think the danger now for Wakefield is,
Speaker 3: you know, you want to finish first or second because
Speaker 3: then you only really have to you have to win one.
Speaker 2: Game and you're in the Grand finals.
Speaker 3: So that's going to be a big race to see
Speaker 3: who finishes second or third between those two and then
Speaker 3: obviously the breakdown of who finishes between whole k.
Speaker 2: R Lee and Warrington and what order. They will want
Speaker 2: to finish as.
Speaker 3: High as they can and maybe avoid one of those teams. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so we'll see.
Speaker 1: Now the Huddersfield Jewsbury Ramming Giants may be playing in
Speaker 1: an NRL owned super League.
Speaker 2: So he said Ramming Giants, then that was a bit close.
Speaker 1: Ramming that could also be determined and bad way too.
Speaker 1: The NRL and super League talks is definitely something happening
Speaker 1: because there's been media announcements on both sides of the
Speaker 1: world this week. Try and summarize it, John in at
Speaker 1: least forty five minutes.
Speaker 3: It's really hard to summarize, but basically I work up
Speaker 3: this morning. There was a big story in the Courier
Speaker 3: mile an interview with Peter Vandys, and latest from Landy's
Speaker 3: in that story was that the Anna rules planned to
Speaker 3: save Super League could be on the brink of collapse
Speaker 3: in what would be a devastating blow for the English game. Now,
Speaker 3: the Qouramail rights that it's understood Skysporks is reluctant to
Speaker 3: come to the party with a pultiple deal to satisfy
Speaker 3: the Annable's investment strategy. There are suggestions design which now
Speaker 3: in focus offs, could support a super League rescue package,
Speaker 3: but Landy says the super League deal could hit a
Speaker 3: dead end.
Speaker 2: You know they haven't. So that was what was in
Speaker 2: the Koreia mail. And look, I think.
Speaker 3: You could say in the past that the Koreia Mail
Speaker 3: has been particularly kind of Landy's and basically runs his
Speaker 3: br There has been speculation that this is part of
Speaker 3: Landy's negotiating to contact tactics that he likes to come
Speaker 3: out with his comments of the press. Now, I've spoken
Speaker 3: to a lot of people, contact a lot of people,
Speaker 3: both to this side of the world and in Australia.
Speaker 3: There is a lot of confusion about really what's going on.
Speaker 3: Not a lot of people seem to know. They're still
Speaker 3: these people who should know. Yes, my understanding is that
Speaker 3: the RFL Slush Super League, they're still not being offered
Speaker 3: a deal. There's no deal on the table as of yet.
Speaker 3: They've been told any day now you'll have a deal.
Speaker 3: I still don't have one now. What's interesting also that
Speaker 3: I think it was reported in the UK last week
Speaker 3: that there was NRL officials in England at the moment
Speaker 3: meeting with Super leg clubs. Now, I spoke to several clubs.
Speaker 3: They don't know anything about it, They've not had meetings.
Speaker 3: I was told that there was someone who works astrategy
Speaker 3: in the NRL who was in London, who was on holiday.
Speaker 2: They weren't meeting clubs. No one went north.
Speaker 3: So that's a bit of an odd one, but a
Speaker 3: bit just jumping back a little bit to the Caurima story.
Speaker 3: The bit that's interesting is that the Lands seems to
Speaker 3: be trying to fund the offer for super League by
Speaker 3: selling super League's TV rights and getting more money for
Speaker 3: them than what super League is. That doesn't seem like,
Speaker 3: you know, a great strategy. You know, selling their assets
Speaker 3: to fund investment in super League is a bit odd,
Speaker 3: wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I am minded not to take much notice of this
Speaker 1: deal being on the brink of collapse. I think what
Speaker 1: could very well the Land is strong arming someone somewhere
Speaker 1: via his media mates in Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that. You know that.
Speaker 3: Further to that, Andrew was obviously over in the UK
Speaker 3: a little while ago. My understanding is that he tried
Speaker 3: to meet with Skuy when he was over and I said, no,
Speaker 3: we're not going to meet with you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: The RFL on super lego wrapping up their TV rights,
Speaker 3: you know. I spoke to Roder James Andwick did an
Speaker 3: interview with him. You can go out and read that.
Speaker 3: It's a free read on Patreon. He expects the deal
Speaker 3: to be done soon now. He didn't name who, but
Speaker 3: I think it will be Sky. He's also said that
Speaker 3: every game will be televised now whether that will be
Speaker 3: with Sky for a couple of games and with another
Speaker 3: broadcaster that appears likely. He also seems quite avant that
Speaker 3: there will increase in value. So that's something that obviously
Speaker 3: the Super League needs. It needs more money for his
Speaker 3: TV rights. But the NRL thing, Look again, I don't Yeah,
Speaker 3: where is the NRLs Obviously they've got their five point
Speaker 3: three billion deal. Where are they going to get the
Speaker 3: money to fund an offer to super lego A They're
Speaker 3: getting it from their own coffers?
Speaker 2: Are they getting it through broadcast? That's never really been
Speaker 2: fully clear. What are they going to get?
Speaker 3: You know, they're going to create a commission that they control.
Speaker 3: Are they do they want a percentage state? Do they
Speaker 3: want the whole thing? There's so much conjecture and get
Speaker 3: out over that.
Speaker 1: It may also it may also be worth noting that
Speaker 1: the Landis Media people in News Corp also released that
Speaker 1: the NRL is actively looking at a global round. So
Speaker 1: obviously what's happening now is the NRL leaking machine, if
Speaker 1: we want to call it, That is letting the wider
Speaker 1: public know and also the rugby league community know what
Speaker 1: they're thinking of doing with their TV rights money that
Speaker 1: they've just secured. What's also been in the in the
Speaker 1: Sydney media is that the players are trying to make
Speaker 1: a big pitch for it. The clubs are trying to
Speaker 1: make a big pitch for it too, and nowhere on
Speaker 1: earth would there be anybody not trying to pitch when
Speaker 1: there's such a bounty. In theory on offer, there's also
Speaker 1: a thought that the bounty I don't necessarily think. Both
Speaker 1: Channel nine and Fox over here I think are owned
Speaker 1: by his own I don't think they'll be getting between
Speaker 1: them half of five billion wired over to the NRL
Speaker 1: in cash. I think a lot of it is contradeal
Speaker 1: for advertising and whatnot. So in other words, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things that people don't know. And I also
Speaker 1: think by the land Is dropping this into the media
Speaker 1: about the Super League deal coming under threat, it will
Speaker 1: galvanize people in Australia at the clubs to go one
Speaker 1: way or the other. I think what we can assume
Speaker 1: from this is that we are approaching something of an
Speaker 1: end game. Yeah, now, I think you know. So there's
Speaker 1: been posturing on both sides of the world. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I think now I think we'll know in the next
Speaker 1: month or so. We'll know before the end of the
Speaker 1: Super League and NRL season no two ways.
Speaker 3: Well, it's funny you say that because I spoke to
Speaker 3: Chris led Chris Redlinsky, sorry, the CEO Wigan on Wednesday,
Speaker 3: and you know, talk to him a lot about a
Speaker 3: lot of things, but one of them was about the
Speaker 3: TV deal, sorry, the NRL deal as well as the
Speaker 3: TV deal, and you know, he said to me, you know,
Speaker 3: I do think getting something in the next two to
Speaker 3: three weeks is absolutely critical. We believe broadcast is setting
Speaker 3: it to a conclusion. We believe the NRL are getting close. Obviously,
Speaker 3: Andrew Oud to us left now there has to be
Speaker 3: decision made on title sponsorship, so obviously the betfread deal,
Speaker 3: and then he said, we don't know what's happening on
Speaker 3: the number of teams in Super League. That's four big
Speaker 3: ticket items that are going to come within the next month.
Speaker 3: Within the next month, the direction and clarity of the
Speaker 3: sport will become a lot clearer. So I think I
Speaker 3: think you are rightly. I think by the end of
Speaker 3: August we are getting, you know, to the to the
Speaker 3: meaty end of this NRL Super League talk negotiations, deal
Speaker 3: or no deal. But I think just putting all this
Speaker 3: side of that like I think. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that Super League should take any deal that's given
Speaker 3: to them, but.
Speaker 2: You have to wonder what is that? What is Plan B?
Speaker 3: Is there a Plan B? It doesn't seem to be
Speaker 3: a plan beat at me. So you know, I think
Speaker 3: joining forces when the NRL can only really be a
Speaker 3: positive for the sport globally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking of rebranding will drop down a division. North
Speaker 1: Wales Crusaders are rebranding. Yes, they are so broke the
Speaker 1: store on Friday. They're going to become the Wales Crusaders.
Speaker 1: They've started a reserve team in South Wales and they're
Speaker 1: also looking to play some games in bridge Bridge End.
Speaker 2: I believe it is, which is near Cardiff.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not a Welsh geographical expert, but they
Speaker 3: play essentially in North Wales in not that far from
Speaker 3: the English board in new Chester and Liverpool. But there
Speaker 3: is no South Wales team. There's only effectively in professional
Speaker 3: semi professional rugby league in the UK, there only is
Speaker 3: the Northwest Crusaders. So yeah, they're trying to spread their
Speaker 3: wings a bit appeal to the whole country. Obviously, we've
Speaker 3: talked a lot about Northwest Crusaders this year having gone
Speaker 3: bust new owners, but they are trying to you know,
Speaker 3: they're trying to rebuild and reform the club. They've hired
Speaker 3: a CEO, they've science sponsorship deals, signed a coach for
Speaker 3: next year. They seem to be trying to build and
Speaker 3: grow the crop sustainably. So it's an interesting move. I
Speaker 3: hope it's successful. Yeah, it's one to it's one to watch.
Speaker 3: I think what's interesting to me is also that I
Speaker 3: think the NRL has shown some interest in not only
Speaker 3: just France, but Wales as well, so that's a market
Speaker 3: I think that they would they would look to or
Speaker 3: be interested in. And the other proponent is obviously Welsh
Speaker 3: rugby Union. Not sure how much followed. It is in
Speaker 3: massive crisis, like their national team has been absolutely shite
Speaker 3: for several years. They're looking to kill off one of
Speaker 3: their professional I think it's they have five professional teams
Speaker 3: in the union and they're looking to kill off one
Speaker 3: of those regional teams, which has been very controversial. So
Speaker 3: you could argue that they're is maybe a stronger market
Speaker 3: for league without a shadow of that would take a
Speaker 3: lot of money, and it would take a lot of
Speaker 3: money and also, as you said earlier that that magic word.
Speaker 2: That starts with S.
Speaker 1: What does field Chop move to wales Bridge endy thirty
Speaker 1: minutes drive away from Cardiff. There's a showdown in the Championship.
Speaker 3: There is well, I mean this is this is kind
Speaker 3: of tied to it. But there's a lot of unhappy
Speaker 3: people in the Championship. I mean this year there's been
Speaker 3: a bit of a nightmare with the fixes and the
Speaker 3: merged competition. But they're introducing a salary cap to try
Speaker 3: and stop more clubs going bus But we still don't
Speaker 3: know what's happening with Featherston. I did speak to Paul
Speaker 3: cook on in the week. He was keen to coach
Speaker 3: Featherstone a reform Featherston next year, but looks like he
Speaker 3: doesn't want to do that anymore. He's quite enjoying his
Speaker 3: media work as a commentator and for different media outlets
Speaker 3: and I think there's been a bit of a setback
Speaker 3: and who's trying to fly the land around the Featherston Stadium.
Speaker 3: So there's just a lot of unknowns in the Championship.
Speaker 3: You know, is there going to be reserves? Other championship
Speaker 3: team is going to be also feeder teams to Super League.
Speaker 3: What do championship teams have to do to get into
Speaker 3: super League?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a general theme here across both super League
Speaker 1: and champions there's a.
Speaker 3: Lack of leadership accountability. But I mean it's only been
Speaker 3: happening for.
Speaker 1: More and the wheelchair a lot of still arguing.
Speaker 3: A bit more on that, Yeah, I mean, I wrote
Speaker 3: a story about Warrenton having two games two games abandoned,
Speaker 3: one for a fight where allegedly a referee was punched,
Speaker 3: another one where there was the dispute over referees decision
Speaker 3: that the team walked off.
Speaker 2: But I've also heard a few people wheelchairs.
Speaker 3: Wheel off. I guess, yeah, you could, you could put it.
Speaker 3: There was also apparently a coach last year of one
Speaker 3: of the clubs I think, was banned for numerous games
Speaker 3: for I think it might have been threatening a referee.
Speaker 3: I'll have to double check no One. But there just
Speaker 3: seems to be a lot of things going on behind
Speaker 3: the sea the surface or behind the wheels in the
Speaker 3: wheelchair game. There's a lot of people unhappy with how
Speaker 3: it's being run and decisions, and from my point of view,
Speaker 3: I mean it's hard. Obviously, probably in oz Lee because
Speaker 3: wheelchair gap rugby league doesn't really get much publicity in Australia,
Speaker 3: does it. But in terms of in England, particularly after
Speaker 3: the last World Cup where England won the World Cup
Speaker 3: in wheelchair, there was a big there was a big
Speaker 3: ground small of publicity and interest and it looked like
Speaker 3: that that sport was on a high and you just
Speaker 3: sort of what's happened to that? Since you know there
Speaker 3: was talking about a wheelchair Premier League, about a new
Speaker 3: a new competition TV deal, that it's not gone anywhere.
Speaker 2: It probably lacks a strategy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, NRL Penrith have lost four of the last seven.
Speaker 1: John Now I did say to anybody who listened to
Speaker 1: me at the start of the year, start of the
Speaker 1: season that Penrith were probably going a bit too hard
Speaker 1: on the early part of the season. I didn't know
Speaker 1: it was sustainable. Now you could argue that Penry having
Speaker 1: their dip now is the right time so they can grow,
Speaker 1: yes and get better and make a run to the finals.
Speaker 1: But this is quite a dip. This isn't one game
Speaker 1: or two games as most Premiers tend to lose a
Speaker 1: little bit before the finals to kick them on again.
Speaker 1: This is four of the last seven and they went
Speaker 1: to Auckland at the weekend in a game that I'm
Speaker 1: sure Penrith would have thought, well, Warriors are pretenders for
Speaker 1: the title. Let's make sure they're still pretend at the end.
Speaker 1: And it didn't turn out that way. The Warriors got
Speaker 1: away with the win. So very interesting about Penris. Do
Speaker 1: you have any fears for them, John, based on what
Speaker 1: you've seen?
Speaker 3: To be honest, I've not seen them play lately. I
Speaker 3: wasn't aware that they'd lost for the last seven, so
Speaker 3: I can't comment too close to on it, but I
Speaker 3: would I would agree with you that maybe they did
Speaker 3: start a little bit too strong and maybe they've tried
Speaker 3: to taper off a bit. But I think, you know,
Speaker 3: just the pure class that are having that team and
Speaker 3: the experience, the big game experience, I think they will
Speaker 3: come good when it matters. I just don't think it's
Speaker 3: a full gud conclusion that Penrith are going to win
Speaker 3: the title anymore.
Speaker 2: I agree. No, I agree with you there.
Speaker 3: I think I think you know, obviously they've won what
Speaker 3: four of the last five or whatever, but I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a four on conclusion. I think
Speaker 3: they are fallible. Yeah, I agree. I think you know
Speaker 3: that there's definitely opportunities for other teams out there are beatable.
Speaker 2: Fosseball is dead. Yeah I didn't see. I didn't say
Speaker 2: this game, but yeah, I think you didn't watch.
Speaker 1: Your own team. You didn't miss a game the other
Speaker 1: week a few months ago.
Speaker 2: I was it was a very early morning game here.
Speaker 1: I don't see anything on social media manly this, you know,
Speaker 1: even on your wife social you know video you're saying,
Speaker 1: it's all excited at nothing. Now, well the Storm beat.
Speaker 3: Them, Yeah, well rubbish a rubbish Storm team, So yeah,
Speaker 3: you know that's sort of Yeah, they've they've fallen off
Speaker 3: the boil well and truly.
Speaker 1: And the irony is that they now play the Dolphins
Speaker 1: this week, which is when the Fozball era started. And
Speaker 1: remember they went to Redcliffe and demolished the Dolph. Well
Speaker 1: you did, and it was all over social media. The
Speaker 1: NRL's media cop has been the talk of the Sydney
Speaker 1: and Brisbane connurbations this week.
Speaker 2: What do you know about that? John? I might know more, actually,
Speaker 2: but what do you.
Speaker 3: I think you probably know more. I think it was
Speaker 3: Danny Wider who broke the story. Listen to a few
Speaker 3: podcasts talking about apparently it's a part of the new
Speaker 3: broadcast deal, isn't that it was asked by the networks.
Speaker 3: I think it's been linked to Andrew Lancaster, who is
Speaker 3: the chairman of Saint George of the War and is
Speaker 3: a big wig at nine and I think they were
Speaker 3: unhappy about a lot of the criticism they were getting from.
Speaker 3: I think it was n RL three sixty and the Dragons.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: I actually like the you have to nominate your conflicts
Speaker 3: of interest self you're an agent and you also work
Speaker 3: in TV, you know, or you're you know, an owner
Speaker 3: of an RL cop but then you also work as
Speaker 3: a pundit or as a commentator. I think you should
Speaker 3: have to nominate who your your conflicts of interest. But
Speaker 3: this thing about you know, if someone's too critical and
Speaker 3: apparently it only covers to TV, so it's only the
Speaker 3: TV news, but you know, if you're too negative about
Speaker 3: the product, then you can be effectively be kicked off
Speaker 3: the network as a process.
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all got to talk the game up now.
Speaker 2: I mean that's just a North Korea is George orwall
Speaker 2: are four?
Speaker 1: We all you know, the what it should be called
Speaker 1: is a conflict of interest cop, not a media cop,
Speaker 1: because it's all targeted at people with conflicts of interest.
Speaker 1: So some of those include Phil Gill, general manager of
Speaker 1: Rugby League Bulldogs, and Sam Tellers very very high media,
Speaker 1: very high media about identity, and then you've just listed
Speaker 1: all the others. Brace and Aster is one that's come
Speaker 1: to prominence because it could be assumed that on his
Speaker 1: talk show the n ROL three sixty that he hosts,
Speaker 1: he's saying certain things about players that are under his
Speaker 1: agency banner and other things about those who aren't or
Speaker 1: the people who are looking after those in his agency banner.
Speaker 1: So there's a thousand conflicts of interest in rugby league.
Speaker 1: And I think this speaks to the fact that I
Speaker 1: sometimes use the term smoke and mirrors when it comes
Speaker 1: to rugby league. It's not necessarily as big as people think.
Speaker 1: And a lot of these people have to do two
Speaker 1: jobs to supplement an income, even in Australia, so you
Speaker 1: have to put things. You have to put jobs together,
Speaker 1: and of course TV networks like to have and radio
Speaker 1: networks like to have ex players, ex coaches, etc. And
Speaker 1: they'll have all the jobs and they'll have other jobs
Speaker 1: in the game and in clubland too because those clubs
Speaker 1: want them as well, and we just don't get that
Speaker 1: in bigger sports, so it should be called a conflict
Speaker 1: of interest. Cop, do we have any conflicts of interest?
Speaker 1: John on Super League three sixty.
Speaker 3: Well used to work for Wigan, didn't you, so you
Speaker 3: could have a long time ago. Yeah, I've never worked
Speaker 3: I've never worked for any club.
Speaker 2: I have been a cue.
Speaker 3: Well, I've been accused of having agendas against certain clubs
Speaker 3: or I've been asked what is my at the club
Speaker 3: that I support, but I don't Well, I don't support
Speaker 3: any club in the UK obviously, I am a mainly
Speaker 3: new so well, so when you when.
Speaker 2: You grew up in Newcastle you did?
Speaker 1: Are you telling me you did not develop a hatred
Speaker 1: of everything associated with Bradford and FC when you were
Speaker 1: growing up in Newcastle?
Speaker 2: Man develop the hatred of Queensland.
Speaker 3: But actually I know many many well queensland is, such
Speaker 3: as yourself or counless friends.
Speaker 2: And I've had many lovely holidays.
Speaker 1: Queens I'm a Queensland resident for tax persons. Yeah, yes, bedfriend.
Speaker 1: Super League next Thursday? Is it going to be Betfread
Speaker 1: next year.
Speaker 3: By the way, well, if you read my interview with
Speaker 3: Rodery James, you might have an idea of that.
Speaker 2: Lee. So it's a free reado out there.
Speaker 1: I'm asking them for the benefit of our listeners. John,
Speaker 1: I've got better things to do than read some things.
Speaker 3: No, so I think it was reported that it was
Speaker 3: going to end this year. No, obviously the sponsorship runs
Speaker 3: out this year. I spoke to roder Jones, I spoke
Speaker 3: to some other people. They had a negotiating period with
Speaker 3: Betfred and that has passed. They weren't able to agree
Speaker 3: a deal. So the RFL is in the market now.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a full gone conclusion that there
Speaker 3: will be nothing or no sponsorship deal with Bedford Inshu.
Speaker 3: It's looking that way.
Speaker 1: So you're telling me Betfred haven't come out and said
Speaker 1: this deal's in trouble.
Speaker 2: No, I think on the brink will collapse. Bedfread have closed.
Speaker 3: I don't know a couple of hundred shops, so they're
Speaker 3: attracting as a business. But ten years with any sports
Speaker 3: sponsorship is a long time. You know, you don't generally
Speaker 3: get ten year sponsorships. I think in most sports and competitions.
Speaker 3: But the thing is rugby league is it's it's wagging
Speaker 3: a bedfread for a decade. You know, they only sponsored
Speaker 3: super League. They sponsored the Women's Super League, the Wheelchair,
Speaker 3: the England team and the championship the Challenge Cup.
Speaker 2: So that is going to be a lot of money
Speaker 2: to replace.
Speaker 1: That's there's also a common denominator here, RFL and negotiations. Anyway,
Speaker 1: in what is now called the Betfread Super League, Hulkingston Rovers,
Speaker 1: Lead Rhinos and one Inton Wolves all host games on
Speaker 1: Thursday at eight o'clock. So John's now going to give
Speaker 1: his world famous tips U k Are versus Catalans on
Speaker 1: Thursday at eight o'clock.
Speaker 2: It's not a tough pick.
Speaker 1: Healthy create score, Lee Rhinos and Lee Leopards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I should hopefully be at this game and I
Speaker 3: think I think Leeds. I think it'll be a really
Speaker 3: good game, but I think leads My just just squeak.
Speaker 2: Home and and Warrington and York.
Speaker 3: Warrington again yeah with a lot to play for York,
Speaker 3: you know, still fighting, but yeah, I think I think warrant.
Speaker 2: What's with the outbreak of games on Thursday.
Speaker 3: John, I think the idea of howkir and Warrington both
Speaker 3: playing on for Thursdays give them enough time to play
Speaker 3: with and they Tuesday after you. But why Leeds and
Speaker 3: Lee are playing on the Thursday.
Speaker 2: I have no idea. That just seems dumb to me.
Speaker 2: But anyway, what do want it? On Friday? The resurgent
Speaker 2: well le FC.
Speaker 1: Hosting the far from resurgent to Castleford Tigers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is two very ordinary teams.
Speaker 3: I would probably tip pe FC in a tight one
Speaker 3: because you know the fast that's going on. A Casper
Speaker 3: and Holo of c have finally got over the line
Speaker 3: for a win. Should give him a little bit of confidence.
Speaker 2: Saturday, is anybody left to play? Yes?
Speaker 1: There is Wakefield Trinity at five point thirty play against
Speaker 1: Saint Helen's in Wakefield.
Speaker 3: This is Darie robertson Derby and I think Wakefield will
Speaker 3: will win it comfortably.
Speaker 1: Bradford hosting Wigan out Yeah, we can buy a big, big,
Speaker 1: big score. That's that's at six thirty UK at a
Speaker 1: UK time at nine o'clock UK time to lose a
Speaker 1: hosting field.
Speaker 2: I fancy huber Field here.
Speaker 1: I think this is perfect. After winning a few games,
Speaker 1: let's have a check to France, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I fancy the Giants as well. They really to
Speaker 3: have turned the corner. Yeah, yeah, I like, I like
Speaker 3: how to tell that one?
Speaker 1: And no Super League games on Sunday. Let's go to
Speaker 1: the question, Yes, John, Yeah, can we just say the scheduling?
Speaker 1: What the hell is going on with the schedulingly?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I've been thanking it for about three or
Speaker 3: four years, so I just get tired of saying it
Speaker 3: for thirty years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The question's got a lot of questions, So the first
Speaker 3: one from Ron Knox is the IMG process truly independent
Speaker 3: if the RFL board, representing each of their own clubs,
Speaker 3: can decide what's in and what's out? Ron, the RFL
Speaker 3: board isn't representing each of their own clubs. There's no
Speaker 3: club owners or members on there, so.
Speaker 1: So the conflict of media, conflict of interest. Copp says,
Speaker 1: nothing to see here? Is that what you're seeing?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean you could you could wager to see who
Speaker 3: in the RFL board has links to what clubs, whether
Speaker 3: former owners or fans, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think we're going to unpack that right now.
Speaker 3: One question from Tom Colbeck, how do we reduce loop fixtures?
Speaker 3: Repeating games warrantly have had a preseason game that I
Speaker 3: assume is on the clubs.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. Tom played three league clubs during the
Speaker 2: Magic weekend loot fixture, a Challenge Cup game and possibly
Speaker 2: meaning the playoffs.
Speaker 3: He gets boring and a tougher self. Surely things like
Speaker 3: magic teams have to lose a home fixture on rotation
Speaker 3: or judge on privilege. Year's table finish is a bonus.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I'm not sure how to league we rebalanced.
Speaker 3: Everyone doesn't play everyone home in away, but we need
Speaker 3: less games. You can't keep taking away from the same
Speaker 3: well with events, take take, take, which is understandable, but
Speaker 3: it's killing the likes of the Challenge Cup.
Speaker 1: Great, great question, and I totally agree because there's a
Speaker 1: word beginning with I, integrity of competition. And the minute
Speaker 1: you throw in extra fixtures or somebody plays each other
Speaker 1: more than more than others, you can you can as
Speaker 1: soon as you can turn around and say we had
Speaker 1: a harder draw.
Speaker 2: Or an easier draw.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I agree with Tom and part I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't I think we've actually had less loot fixtures.
Speaker 3: Warrington and Lee played each other in preseason that was
Speaker 3: their own decision.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah we can't you know, that's down to
Speaker 2: them obviously.
Speaker 3: The Challenge Cup again, there's you know a bit of
Speaker 3: randomness in that, even though we seem to get a
Speaker 3: lot of similar fixtures in the Charge Cup here in here.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we don't want loot fixtures. But the clubs
Speaker 3: need to pay the bills and they do it off off.
Speaker 2: Home game revenue. So I think the thing.
Speaker 3: With the with Magic is it should be a home game.
Speaker 3: Well you should rotate it so that it's a home
Speaker 3: game for six clubs, sorry seven clubs, and then the
Speaker 3: following years a home game further one, so that way
Speaker 3: it's actually part of the regular season.
Speaker 2: Yep. Question from Jeff Stretfield.
Speaker 3: What's right, wrong or right with a fifteen team super
Speaker 3: League apart from teams getting a small share of the pots?
Speaker 3: Well very quickly and then I'll pass every lead. I
Speaker 3: think it's wrong because there isn't a player pool to
Speaker 3: support fifteen teams. There isn't a playerpool to support fourteen teams.
Speaker 3: They've had to extend the quota and you're getting a
Speaker 3: poorer quality of Austrain or Pacific on to KeyWe players
Speaker 3: over and I just didn't think there's enough. You know
Speaker 3: that we see worse overall, worse quality games this season
Speaker 3: than we have in previous years, even though you know
Speaker 3: Leeds Wakefield was great, but was Okay Cast a great game,
Speaker 3: Was you know, Bradford Barrington a great game.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only thing I would add to that is it's
Speaker 1: not just the player pool available in the UK and
Speaker 1: people coming to Australia. There's also been an extra NRL
Speaker 1: side added to the NRLs in recent years. There's another
Speaker 1: one coming next year, and another one coming the year after,
Speaker 1: and then another one coming at some point later. So
Speaker 1: rugby league worldwide community is really getting strained in terms
Speaker 1: of player pools. And if you make the Super League
Speaker 1: fifteen teams, it will become an even worse quality competition.
Speaker 1: Much of the Super League right now is played by
Speaker 1: players I would call reserve graders, and he's played at
Speaker 1: reserve grade standard in terms of the overall standard of
Speaker 1: world rugby league.
Speaker 3: And the thing about those NROL clubs, they're not taking
Speaker 3: you know, they're taking the best English players. So you know,
Speaker 3: I know he'd left as a teenager, but Herbie farm
Speaker 3: Worth at the Dolphins, George Williams is going is going
Speaker 3: to PNG. Smithy's was a Camera but he's going to
Speaker 3: be at Perth is going to be a Perth. McDonald's
Speaker 3: going to be a Perth. Newman is going to be
Speaker 3: a Perth.
Speaker 1: And even even at the top level of super League,
Speaker 1: John I see Radlinsky made a comment last week that
Speaker 1: the top four or five Super League sides could compete
Speaker 1: in the NRL. I'm not sure, and it depends on
Speaker 1: your definition of compete because because a lot of those
Speaker 1: players at the top clubs are not in demand in Australia.
Speaker 1: They you know, Bevan French was basically a reserve grader
Speaker 1: at Paramatta and now he's being talked about one of
Speaker 1: the best super League imports in.
Speaker 3: I think I think Bevan French would be a regular
Speaker 3: added team in the NRL. Now, I don't think French
Speaker 3: would be, you know, playing for Australia or Origin, but
Speaker 3: I think he's definitely good enough to be playing an NRL.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I agree with the point.
Speaker 3: I think in one off games or in this series
Speaker 3: of games, super League teams would be competitive.
Speaker 2: But you are right, you can put competitive in a different.
Speaker 1: Way, and we were so far off in the ashes
Speaker 1: and you don't fix that in six months or twelve months.
Speaker 3: No question from Andrew red when should the process for
Speaker 3: deciding what teams are included or excluded from Super League?
Speaker 3: He decided at the start of the season so clubs
Speaker 3: and supporters know what to expect.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yeah, it's a fit point.
Speaker 3: I guess it depends on what system you're using, whether
Speaker 3: it's promotion and relegation, whether it's IMG.
Speaker 1: Do you remember do you remember the criticism when London
Speaker 1: started the season knowing they weren't going to be in
Speaker 1: a Super league the year after?
Speaker 2: Do you remember that? Yes?
Speaker 1: I do, And therefore they just cut their wage bill,
Speaker 1: save some money and fought with two hands tired behind
Speaker 1: the back. Yeah that's the downside of it as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there are there are upsides and downsides from
Speaker 3: Gareth Malam. Should the IMG process be fully transparent at
Speaker 3: the moment there's so much debate, But us mens daven
Speaker 3: know how the points system is working out. We have
Speaker 3: access to a handbook from twenty twenty four, but that
Speaker 3: has changed and the loads of questions around some clubs
Speaker 3: not giving your tendances for games. We can't see the
Speaker 3: finances basically we can't even see it's a fair I mean,
Speaker 3: that's a that's a great point from Gareth. I think
Speaker 3: they should be, you know, updating that handbook, making their
Speaker 3: document live so that fans can check it. The finances
Speaker 3: thing is a big issue because owners just put in
Speaker 3: loans to their companies, the club businesses, and it's written off,
Speaker 3: you know, to improve the financial situation. And the attendance
Speaker 3: is again we don't know not ivery club publishes their attendances.
Speaker 1: So everybody in Australia New Zealand must be thinking. Is
Speaker 1: everybody in rugby league in England confused? Fans clubs? Everyone's accused.
Speaker 2: We've got also a question from Trent Watkins.
Speaker 3: The rebrand to the Welsh Cruses, I believe is a
Speaker 3: smart move from the business owners. If the Aneral does
Speaker 3: invest in the Super League, I can foresee it being
Speaker 3: some directive from the NROL for a Welsh, Irish or
Speaker 3: additional French team in the Super League within the next
Speaker 3: four year period.
Speaker 2: It's now to the Crusaders owners to build on its
Speaker 2: national Welsh focus.
Speaker 3: I might be looking at this too positively, however, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I agree with you trend. I think that's the way
Speaker 3: of thinking, it's going to be very difficult. But I
Speaker 3: think you know we're talking ideas and hopes, then yeah,
Speaker 3: I would agree. And then there is a second bit.
Speaker 3: The sponsor of betfread for the Super League, and he
Speaker 3: is a bit concerning. I know, hating on gambling companies
Speaker 3: is in fogue at the moment with a younger generation,
Speaker 3: but they are great partners to the Super League, ANERL
Speaker 3: and rugul league in general. Who do you foresee being
Speaker 3: the future sponsor? The pride lift of sponsors for the
Speaker 3: random first for the Super League are quite random.
Speaker 1: Well, there's there's only about a million businesses that could
Speaker 1: potentially sponsor rugby league. But I think if you if
Speaker 1: you look at the the fit, obviously gambling is a
Speaker 1: good fit with sport in terms of they change in
Speaker 1: terms of legislation.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. Alcohol is always a good one.
Speaker 1: Uh sports outlets?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean how long is a piece?
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I don't know who the sponsor is
Speaker 3: going to be, but I think the kind of position
Speaker 3: of rugby league and UK definitely needs to improve because
Speaker 3: you don't see a lot of different categories, you know,
Speaker 3: in in in the RL, you see cars down, you
Speaker 3: see fast food, you see you know milkshake in Super League.
Speaker 3: You know what We've had Stobart, We've Agulette. Who else
Speaker 3: have we had? Lad Brogues, the pizza company that didn't pay. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we had I try to remember which pizza was it? Yeah,
Speaker 3: we had, we had Marsha B's.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think we kind of need to make the image
Speaker 3: of the game a bit more attractive for braining any
Speaker 3: companies making caps. And we did have a question on
Speaker 3: on X. Let me just dig this one out.
Speaker 2: There was an interesting one that to give me a
Speaker 2: bit of pause for thought.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how how to answer this, how ruthless
Speaker 3: to be, but I read it out.
Speaker 2: I'll let you answer it first. Let me throw me
Speaker 2: on the under the box. Yes, definitely, where are we sorry,
Speaker 2: just bear with me one second. I found it. Here
Speaker 2: we go.
Speaker 3: I've got from pad the Greek. If you've got a
Speaker 3: spare twenty five working days, what are the immediate steps
Speaker 3: and helens make to improve.
Speaker 1: Hearts and minds? I know you'll say that's what they
Speaker 1: said in Vietnam or Honestly, you need to communicate with
Speaker 1: your fan base properly. And your fan base also includes
Speaker 1: juniors who may play the game, and if one thing
Speaker 1: Saint Helens have done over the years is not gone
Speaker 1: with a bigger picture thought, are you trying to go
Speaker 1: nationally or something like that. They almost seem to have
Speaker 1: lost their locality as well. So I always think when
Speaker 1: there's so many moving parts, when there's so much going on,
Speaker 1: that's not good. Your best ring fencing what you can
Speaker 1: and they really need to focus on the community of
Speaker 1: Saint Helens. It's still a strong amateur scene. Get people
Speaker 1: on board, get people moving in the right direction, and
Speaker 1: make people feel part of the process again, because don't
Speaker 1: forget over the last twenty years they've moved grounds as well,
Speaker 1: so they'll be there'll be some people that lost a
Speaker 1: connection to Saint Helens just because of that as well.
Speaker 1: So there's there's I would ring fence Saint Helens and
Speaker 1: make sure no players from Saint Helens sign elsewhere as
Speaker 1: juniors and things like that. I would, I would, I
Speaker 1: would come with a ten year plan minimum. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I like that. I'd agree with that.
Speaker 3: I think I think they are making some moves in
Speaker 3: the sense that they're looking to move some players on. Obviously,
Speaker 3: their name of DoD Lewis Murphy. You know, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of talk about Jackson Hasting's David Clemar Shane Wright.
Speaker 3: I have heard there is some talk that maybe Johnny
Speaker 3: Lomax will become an assistant coach at the end of
Speaker 3: the year. It's obviously pssibly retiring. James Ruby seems to'll
Speaker 3: come back in the fold, which seems positive.
Speaker 2: Obviously they need a head coach.
Speaker 3: They've announced the Dublin Game, which I think is kind
Speaker 3: of a nice diversion, isn't it.
Speaker 1: When there was successful a few years ago, there were
Speaker 1: so many local juniors in that side, so many that
Speaker 1: have come through the academy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wrote and this is what I was told
Speaker 3: that a lot of the best juniors have been going
Speaker 3: off to Wiggan and Warrington in recent years.
Speaker 2: So they've tried to get the path.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they've tried to get their pathway back in line
Speaker 3: at the moment, and.
Speaker 1: Markes was so good at that stuff as well before
Speaker 1: it became CEO.
Speaker 3: I think just listening to their fans, talking to fans,
Speaker 3: whether we are fans forum a survey, you know, a
Speaker 3: lot of fans are unhappy about the direction of club.
Speaker 3: They're happy about the match day experience. Like you know,
Speaker 3: it's not just keep saying this is not just about
Speaker 3: the product on the field, it's everything around it. It's
Speaker 3: the stadium, it's the music, it's the food, it's the merch,
Speaker 3: it's the engagement. You know, it's the it's even the
Speaker 3: content you put out, isn't it the non unleashed AI slop.
Speaker 2: You've actually got to talk to.
Speaker 1: Your summarize and look back round. The striking thing about
Speaker 1: the Huddersfield game at the weekend was the mixed reaction
Speaker 1: at halftime and the term that came into my head
Speaker 1: straight away was tone deaf. Yes, the leadership of the
Speaker 1: club are obviously tone deaf to what their people want,
Speaker 1: so that might be the same case at Saint Helen's too.
Speaker 2: That's all we've got. That was a long run. How
Speaker 2: can people get hold of you? John probably can get
Speaker 2: me on Johnny D.
Speaker 3: Davids can get me on Instagram at I think it's
Speaker 3: Johnny D. Davidson RL and on Facebook. John Davidson journalist.
Speaker 3: I should have a couple more stories. It's quite a
Speaker 3: few that I've put out in the last four or
Speaker 3: five days.
Speaker 2: Another one to come tomorrow and yeah, thanks everyone for
Speaker 2: the support and interaction of the POD.
Speaker 1: I'm a coach, so Rugby League Coach dot com. Dottay
Speaker 1: you admin at Rugby League Coach dot Comdutaus. My email
Speaker 1: at Rugby League Coach on Socials, apart from X which
Speaker 1: is at rol coach on the net. If you want
Speaker 1: to message me best on Instagram and Facebook or tag
Speaker 1: me in on X. That was a mammoth edition. I
Speaker 1: hope you stayed with us. Take care,