Speaker 1: Cloundish Authenticity podcast.
Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning in to Boundless Authenticity. A big thank
Speaker 2: you to all our new subscribers and followers. If you're
Speaker 2: not following the show yet, be sure to hit that
Speaker 2: follow button right now. Boundless Authenticity is available on Spreaker, Spotify, Apple, Rumble,
Speaker 2: and sometimes YouTube when they're not flagging my ass for
Speaker 2: being a bad boy, I recommend using the Spreaker app
Speaker 2: because it's free. There's no sign up needed. All you
Speaker 2: have to do is just hit play and enjoy. By subscribing,
Speaker 2: you'll get notified when new episodes drop, and you'll help
Speaker 2: the show reach more listeners, which means we can bring
Speaker 2: on the guests that you want to hear from. New
Speaker 2: episodes drop three times a month, the sixth, sixteenth, and
Speaker 2: the twenty sixth, so mark your calendars. Get ready for
Speaker 2: a fascinating conversation with my guest today, Sean Hemian. Sean
Speaker 2: is not only a talented actor known for his roles
Speaker 2: on nine to one, one, Criminal Minds, and The CW's Husbands,
Speaker 2: but also an inspiring writer. His book, The Good Little
Speaker 2: Drug Lord tells the gripping true story of a former
Speaker 2: Mormon drug dealer who finds redemption in the most unexpected
Speaker 2: ways as an undercover narc working for the federal government.
Speaker 2: In this powerful memoir, Sean takes us on a wild
Speaker 2: ride through encounters with the Russian mafia and intense battle
Speaker 2: with his own demons and raw confrontrations, confrontations. I can't
Speaker 2: even talk anymore. What is happening with the people who
Speaker 2: shaped his journey, his mother and the mother of a
Speaker 2: young man who lost his life because of his past mistakes.
Speaker 2: Trust me, this is one story you don't want to miss.
Speaker 1: I'm not laughing, it's it's just hearing it all together again,
Speaker 1: Like that is just so Yeah, it's a serious subject,
Speaker 1: but you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, it's strange. I can imagine when you send
Speaker 2: me the email, I was like, this is definitely something
Speaker 2: I want to talk about because if this is all
Speaker 2: rooted in real life stuff. As a therapist, I have
Speaker 2: heard some of the craziest and darkest stories about, for example,
Speaker 2: human trafficking. I know one client years ago, her neighbors
Speaker 2: just picked her up from Canada and just threw on
Speaker 2: a plane and took her to Diana and like we're
Speaker 2: waterboarding her and she got stuck in a human trafficking
Speaker 2: ring and it was vile, and I was like this
Speaker 2: that was like for me, that was the first time
Speaker 2: I realized that this kind of stuff really happens on
Speaker 2: mass you know. So when you're telling me about drug
Speaker 2: trafficking for the Russian mafia or whatever, I'm like, what,
Speaker 2: you know, you.
Speaker 1: Know what's so funny about that? In the beginning, as
Speaker 1: I was being introduced to all of this, that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that was so appealing to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is take this out with the grain of salt,
Speaker 1: but like the being introduced to like the underbelly of
Speaker 1: the world, like things that were happening behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is how the world really works,
Speaker 1: Like we're all living in this lie up here, but
Speaker 1: underneath here like this is you know, the CD underbelly.
Speaker 1: Like that's what was so fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine it being something like straight out
Speaker 2: of Plato's allegory of the Cave or whatever. The guy
Speaker 2: gets free and he sees how the world really is,
Speaker 2: and he comes back and he tries to warn people,
Speaker 2: but they don't listen, you know.
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, and especially for my very black and
Speaker 1: white Christian Mormon mind. It was so naive and so,
Speaker 1: you know, to me now, it's like I don't have
Speaker 1: to go do that experience to understand how the world
Speaker 1: really works. But to my like such my innocent, pure mind,
Speaker 1: it was like, wow, the world is so different than
Speaker 1: what I thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's go to the beginning. How on earth
Speaker 2: did you end up being a Mormon drug dealer?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Lord, Lord Lord, well, how much time do we have?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: I you know this is I I obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: with the amount of time we actually do have, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'll get through everything. So I'll try to
Speaker 1: summarize as best I can, Like, how the hell does
Speaker 1: that happen? You did mention the book, and you know
Speaker 1: there'll be opportunities for people to read that or or
Speaker 1: listen to part two of the podcast whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: but uh, how does that happen? I mean, you know
Speaker 1: in the book. Actually, I will say this. I do
Speaker 1: go forward in time to the rise and fall, like
Speaker 1: the actual how does that happen? But I also go
Speaker 1: back in time because it's I'm asking myself like, wait,
Speaker 1: how does that happen? You know, not the actual you know,
Speaker 1: like the emotional, spiritual journey of like, wait, how the
Speaker 1: can I curse on this? How the fuck does that happen?
Speaker 1: So that's so when you read, uh, you'll again, you'll
Speaker 1: see me go forward in time and backward at a time, because, uh,
Speaker 1: how do where would you like me to begin?
Speaker 2: Like start when you were an embryo?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like, well, well, buckle up, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a long ride. No, okay. So uh so I
Speaker 1: was raised Mormon. Let's start there, and and uh family
Speaker 1: of seven, my father, my mother married outside the church.
Speaker 1: My father was never Mormon, but my mother was adamant
Speaker 1: about raising us in the Mormon church, and my dad
Speaker 1: supported that. But it was always so strange. You know,
Speaker 1: Mormons are like, don't drink, don't see rated our movies,
Speaker 1: don't And then we come home and my dad would
Speaker 1: be smoking and being like, get the fuck out of
Speaker 1: the way, my rated our movie. And we'd be like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? But I really was closer to my
Speaker 1: mother and so, and you can pathologize all the reasons
Speaker 1: why I was closer to her. She was very depressed,
Speaker 1: so I you know, I try to always make you
Speaker 1: say I was saving her blah blah blah. So I
Speaker 1: tried really hard to be a good Mormon boy, and
Speaker 1: I was. And when I asked a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about a lot of things that didn't make sense to
Speaker 1: the Mormon Church that they were just like, now, now,
Speaker 1: little boy, just pray harder. You don't have enough faith.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, I don't have enough faith,
Speaker 1: and so I prayed harder. But when I was thirteen ish,
Speaker 1: and I sensed it before then, I realized, oh, I
Speaker 1: might have a thing for my guy best friend next
Speaker 1: to me. But this is the nineties, this is a
Speaker 1: Mormon church. This is like no no, And I, again,
Speaker 1: being the best little Mormon boy in the world, truly
Speaker 1: believed I was living in a Mormon god world and
Speaker 1: truly believed that this is the worst thing that could
Speaker 1: happen to a person. I mean, it was up there
Speaker 1: with murder. So I thought, now I was living in
Speaker 1: a world with a God who not only didn't like me,
Speaker 1: but it loathed me enough to curse me with this
Speaker 1: gain is you know, I really believed that. I really
Speaker 1: really believe that. At thirteen, the point where I was
Speaker 1: like I wanted to die, I was like, this God
Speaker 1: makes me want to die. So that was the sort
Speaker 1: of beginning of the torment and the pain. You know,
Speaker 1: horrible things happened around that time.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 1: There was molestation from you know, I might have been
Speaker 1: one of the first, like this is like ninety three,
Speaker 1: ninety four, I might have been one of the first
Speaker 1: like online predator victims. Crazy, you know. So when my
Speaker 1: older brother offered to take me out with him and
Speaker 1: I had my first drink of alcohol, no surprise, having
Speaker 1: that and finding some kind of relief from this torment,
Speaker 1: I was like, what is this? This is amazing. I
Speaker 1: want this and I want this all the time. And
Speaker 1: so I was primed for that. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: and by the time I was eighteen, graduating from high school,
Speaker 1: I was already drinking during the week. You know, I
Speaker 1: was you know, I was black and out by that time.
Speaker 1: I was. I was. And by that time I had
Speaker 1: left the church and I had I was sort of
Speaker 1: saved from the existential spiritual torment of living with the
Speaker 1: Mormon God because I fell in love with my best
Speaker 1: friend and I and it was so pure that I
Speaker 1: was like and we were like on and off for
Speaker 1: all four years, like undercover, but it was so pure
Speaker 1: and it's feeling that like, if something this feels this
Speaker 1: good and this right, it can be so right and
Speaker 1: something's wrong with this over here. And so I sort
Speaker 1: of started dismantling what I thought God was at that time.
Speaker 3: But it.
Speaker 1: Didn't matter. I didn't have the tools to deal with
Speaker 1: everything that I just described. I was what is an
Speaker 1: eighteen year old to do with that? And when I
Speaker 1: came out to my mother at nineteen after you know,
Speaker 1: that best friend and I we broke up, and that
Speaker 1: was he was literally my world. And so when we
Speaker 1: broke up, I thought I lost my world. You could
Speaker 1: say he became my god. I went from the Mormon
Speaker 1: god to this god. And when I lost that god,
Speaker 1: I was like, well that's it. My world's over it.
Speaker 1: Let me start cutting my wrists. My mother found me
Speaker 1: and this was my outing. How tragic is that? Now?
Speaker 1: Excuse me for laughing, But like I have to say,
Speaker 1: when I first started writing the book, I had read
Speaker 1: a bunch of other memoirs, you know, and they can
Speaker 1: become very like like look what happened to me, like
Speaker 1: masturbatory just kind of and so I kind of threw
Speaker 1: up my hands. I was like, ah, I don't want
Speaker 1: this to be sad, and I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: the title of the book. So for the first six months,
Speaker 1: the title of this book was I don't want this
Speaker 1: to be sad. And I don't want it to be sad.
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be sad. I wanted to,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to you know, when there's laughter healing,
Speaker 1: and so I want to find that in there. I
Speaker 1: don't want this to be so like melodramatic, and I
Speaker 1: didn't write it in that way either. So that's why
Speaker 1: I'm laughing through this because it's just it's so absurd now,
Speaker 1: it's just even even I took the part of the
Speaker 1: story I'm about to get to just it seems what
Speaker 1: it just seems so what like it seems so absolutely absurd, absurd.
Speaker 1: But after my outing, my terrible outing, and my mother
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, doing the very Christian thing of well,
Speaker 1: we love you, we accept you, but not the lifestyle,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, code for sleeping with other men.
Speaker 1: So no, it's just flat out rejection. That was nineteen
Speaker 1: So most of the story happens from twenty to twenty three,
Speaker 1: especially twenty one to twenty three, because I went to
Speaker 1: theater school, I already found acting. By that point, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is fun. I like messing around
Speaker 1: with this. I went to theater school and dated some
Speaker 1: other people. But it wasn't until I met a drug
Speaker 1: dealer in Washington in DC. It wasn't until I started
Speaker 1: experimenting with party drugs, specifically Crystal myth and I very
Speaker 1: clearly remember the first time I had it. I could sense,
Speaker 1: I could feel how powerful. I mean, just as an anecdote, like,
Speaker 1: you know, to dance on the to go dancing on
Speaker 1: the dance floor, I had to be really drunk to
Speaker 1: do it, you know, because I'm stupid white boy in
Speaker 1: no rhythm kind of thing. And but the second I
Speaker 1: had the the meth, I was like a dancing queen,
Speaker 1: like just ripping it up and just feeling so powerful
Speaker 1: and that feeling of being wanted. And it's very It's
Speaker 1: not a good drug for people who feel powerless in
Speaker 1: the world, because it makes you feel really powerful, and
Speaker 1: therefore you want it all the day, all the day time. Anyway, everything,
Speaker 1: all the addictions, I'm gonna sort of start to summarize
Speaker 1: because when I was with the drug dealer boyfriend trying
Speaker 1: to keep it to the weekend, it started encroaching into
Speaker 1: the week. You know, I'd be up for three days
Speaker 1: on the meth at this time. But you know, I'm
Speaker 1: twenty two. I'm invincible. I got this excuse me. And
Speaker 1: I was going to school ninety miles south from Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. So Richmond, Virginia, and then Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: And you know, zoom up and down. But like I said,
Speaker 1: I was startingcroaching during the week. I started missing classes.
Speaker 1: And I would blame the boyfriend because he was so
Speaker 1: bad at drug dealing that he couldn't re up on
Speaker 1: the drugs fast enough because I needed something to actually
Speaker 1: get down to school. And slowly, you know, slowly, I
Speaker 1: started doing more and more during the week. And it
Speaker 1: got to the point where I just decided that this
Speaker 1: dealer boyfriend was terrible at it. He was not reliable,
Speaker 1: not you know, not trustworthy. Mostly he couldn't keep up
Speaker 1: with this growing habit that I excused because of my age.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm twenty two. I'll be able to stop
Speaker 1: when I want to stop. And and and we got
Speaker 1: in some We got in a huge fight one night
Speaker 1: because he really you know, other people thought he was
Speaker 1: a bad dealer. This is so funny. To talk about.
Speaker 1: But let me tell you too, I did say I
Speaker 1: did say this earlier when I first met him at
Speaker 1: like an after hours party, and the way he came
Speaker 1: in and the way that people just treated him like
Speaker 1: a celebrity and like he was the second coming of
Speaker 1: the Messiah, Like it was like, who is this person?
Speaker 1: And then he swept me up, And you know, the
Speaker 1: very first time I met him, I saw the most
Speaker 1: amount of drugs I've ever seen in my life. And
Speaker 1: I'm just like wide eyed and like, yeah, there's this
Speaker 1: whole other world outside of this painful, tormented, depressed world
Speaker 1: that I just came from. This is so fascinating. This
Speaker 1: is so like whoa. And again I'm twenty two and invincible,
Speaker 1: Like this isn't you know, the bad stuff isn't going
Speaker 1: to happen to me. You know, this is just really exciting.
Speaker 1: This will make for a great story one day like
Speaker 1: today when I'm sharing it right now. I mean I
Speaker 1: genuinely thought that then, and it's true. It's true. I mean,
Speaker 1: of course my actor brain was thinking in those terms.
Speaker 4: But you know, I.
Speaker 1: He anyway, he was just so bad at it. And
Speaker 1: then when we broke up, he accused me of trying
Speaker 1: to steal his business, and I was like so resentful.
Speaker 1: I was like, f you, I'll do a better job
Speaker 1: than you. And so I started dealing just to proven wrong.
Speaker 1: And you mind, you this is like dealing nothing like
Speaker 1: at a club, you know what I mean, running around
Speaker 1: at a club and doing little quarterbag. He's in little
Speaker 1: eight Like this is just a little bit of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's still kind of like feeling wanted and thrilling and stuff.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, Okay, we're gonna run around and
Speaker 1: do this. But the consequences started encroaching to you know,
Speaker 1: for example, to finish my theater final, I was rushing
Speaker 1: down to school and I fell asleep at the wheel
Speaker 1: and I drove my car in the back of a
Speaker 1: mac truck. And that wasn't my fault. That was his
Speaker 1: fault because he didn't get enough drugs for me to
Speaker 1: stay awake. You know, that kind of stuff was always
Speaker 1: happening anyway. So what ended up happening was I liked
Speaker 1: the dealing a little too much, and I could see
Speaker 1: that I love the path. The meth made me feel powerful,
Speaker 1: but the dealing was like I'm a celebrity, like I
Speaker 1: own everything, like it was like I saw that. I
Speaker 1: could sense that, and I was like, I need to
Speaker 1: get out of this. I need to move on. Look,
Speaker 1: I'll prove him wrong, you know, I'll show him that
Speaker 1: I can do better than him, steal all his business,
Speaker 1: and then I'll make all this money and I'll get out.
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. But on the weekend that
Speaker 1: I was like leaving at the time. This is not
Speaker 1: true today, but at the time, what I thought and
Speaker 1: what I thought for the rest of the story was
Speaker 1: that I fell asleep in the alleyway in the car.
Speaker 1: I did not know my license was suspended from that
Speaker 1: that said, crashing under a Mac truck. And at the
Speaker 1: time I thought he called the police on me. You know,
Speaker 1: I wake up middle of the night, tap tap taps
Speaker 1: the DC police. They asked for my license, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: nothing's wrong. So I'm you know, I opened the window
Speaker 1: like this much because I was like, go away, and
Speaker 1: I gave him my license and then they they rip
Speaker 1: open the door, ripped me out, and I'm like freaking out.
Speaker 1: They're like, licenses suspended, we have the right to search you,
Speaker 1: and so I'm arrested and I just I was just
Speaker 1: trying to leave and get out of this, and suddenly
Speaker 1: I'm pulled in so so a few weeks later after
Speaker 1: the rest, I was pulled in front of these two
Speaker 1: federal investigators, which was weird because they looked like they
Speaker 1: looked like like road managers for a rock band. I
Speaker 1: mean like I'm talking like Fu Manchu, cargo shorts, pan
Speaker 1: T shirts, like the one guy looked like Will Ferrell.
Speaker 1: It was like, what, these are federal agents. It was
Speaker 1: so it was they're like undercover federal agents, and I
Speaker 1: was just like, what is happening? So they they they
Speaker 1: sent me a plea deal, but then they revoked it
Speaker 1: and then made it a mandatory debrief. I guess I
Speaker 1: don't know if they thought I could give them information,
Speaker 1: But when we did the interrogation, I was I played dumb.
Speaker 1: I didn't give away a lot of information, but they
Speaker 1: thought I was enough immersed in that world where they said,
Speaker 1: without saying it, you need to keep doing what you're doing,
Speaker 1: aka dealing, and you need to get us something if
Speaker 1: you want this to go away. And I essentially said,
Speaker 1: in so many words back to them, I was a nobody.
Speaker 1: If I need to get you guys that kind of
Speaker 1: information I need to like deal more, and they're like,
Speaker 1: good luck. So I signed the paper for the informant.
Speaker 1: In my mind, I'm like, I've seen the movies. I'm
Speaker 1: not a rat, I'm not an informant. What do you
Speaker 1: you know? But I was battling that the whole time.
Speaker 1: You know, my family knew everything. So when I came
Speaker 1: home to my you know I have you know, there's
Speaker 1: seven kids and my six other siblings, they're like, what's wrong, man?
Speaker 1: You know, why don't you just go rout on somebody.
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, didn't you see the movies? But they
Speaker 1: were threatening me with ten plus years and this is
Speaker 1: DC so it's federal because it was possession with intent
Speaker 1: to distribute. They caught me with a lot, So that's
Speaker 1: like March of twenty sorry, not twenty. That was like
Speaker 1: March of two thousand and three four, and I had
Speaker 1: about six months March, April, May, June, July, ar six months.
Speaker 1: I was like my runway. So now I was trying
Speaker 1: to get out. Now I'm stuck in it because I
Speaker 1: have to keep dealing in order to get them information,
Speaker 1: and my mind is blown, like how is any of
Speaker 1: this real? How is this possible. What the fuck? What
Speaker 1: do I do? What do I do? You know, I don't.
Speaker 1: It's kind of obvious that my drug use skyrocketed. Now
Speaker 1: I'm using every day all day. I forgot what it
Speaker 1: was like to do a sober breath. I started smoking
Speaker 1: the meth but never injecting, because that's what addicts did.
Speaker 1: And I had running mates, meaning I had people who
Speaker 1: would run and do deals for me, and I had
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, the first month or two
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out ways to get people to
Speaker 1: deal with me, because people knew I was arrested, so
Speaker 1: I was like red flagged, so they were all paranoid
Speaker 1: to be around me. So I started traveling to other
Speaker 1: cities and my plan was to find a bigger supplier elsewhere,
Speaker 1: come back to DC, and when it was dry meaning
Speaker 1: no product, people would buy from me and then give
Speaker 1: me access to a bigger DC supplier and then debate
Speaker 1: on whether or not to turn them in. I still
Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't think about that far ahead. I
Speaker 1: just needed something to do because again I was still
Speaker 1: wrestling with like can I live with the rest of
Speaker 1: my life with the guilt of being like a rat?
Speaker 2: And you know.
Speaker 1: I went to Fort Lauderdale, New Orleans. I went to
Speaker 1: New York. The best place was Atlanta. It was cheaper
Speaker 1: there because it was closer to the Mexican border for
Speaker 1: the cartels. And I struck up this relationship with this
Speaker 1: one supplier. He was reminded me of myself. He came
Speaker 1: from a very religious background. He was just a sweet guy.
Speaker 1: He was like a pastor's kid, and it's like, what
Speaker 1: are you doing this world? He was like a massive
Speaker 1: supplier in Atlanta, like one step away from the cartels,
Speaker 1: like the person he got it from who got it
Speaker 1: from the cartels. And he would tell me this, but
Speaker 1: he would never bring me along because it was too dangerous.
Speaker 1: But I would try to buddy up with him. So
Speaker 1: I was like, am I going to rat on him?
Speaker 1: Or wait, maybe I can find out who that person
Speaker 1: is and rite on them. And then but then I
Speaker 1: got way too paranoid because I was like, at that point,
Speaker 1: we were like learning of cartels chopping off people's heads,
Speaker 1: and so I'm just like, what the fuck do I do?
Speaker 1: And he for a good stretch there. I started trance
Speaker 1: trafficking through the airports to get the product back up there,
Speaker 1: and I put it on my body like I had
Speaker 1: this special underwear that I would do. Still the most
Speaker 1: terrifying thing I think I've ever done to this day.
Speaker 1: It didn't matter the amount of drugs I did, it
Speaker 1: was still, I mean, fortunately for me at that time
Speaker 1: I think I still do like it looked like some
Speaker 1: dumbass white frat college kid. So so fortunately for me,
Speaker 1: I learned, But earlier, before I learned, I would always
Speaker 1: buy this ticket one way, which is like automatic red
Speaker 1: flag for security, extra security check. But I'd be put
Speaker 1: in a line, and I'm not kidding, it'd be me
Speaker 1: and like thirty Middle Eastern looking men. Because this is
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, thousand and four, this is this
Speaker 1: is post nine eleven. They could have cared less about me,
Speaker 1: but it's still enough to get paranoid. And twice they
Speaker 1: found a baggie of white powder. I thought I cleaned
Speaker 1: out my bag well enough. Twice they found it, and
Speaker 1: twice twice I got away. They were just I played
Speaker 1: dumb college kid. I mean, I can't. I can't even
Speaker 1: There's so many lucky sob son of a bitch like
Speaker 1: parts of this story that just blow my mind. So
Speaker 1: I thrived on this because I did get back to
Speaker 1: DC and people didn't have product I did, nobody else did,
Speaker 1: and so suddenly I was the big cat and town
Speaker 1: and hence the good little drug lord that's like the
Speaker 1: Mormon drug lord. And so I was. I was on top,
Speaker 1: and I got by like that for a short while,
Speaker 1: knowing my courte was looming. The agents they were in
Speaker 1: my phone as I don't know why I did this.
Speaker 1: They were in my phone is Yes and No. That
Speaker 1: was the name I gave them because I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: I do rather no I don't. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: So I would get random texts from Yes and No,
Speaker 1: just being that clock is ticking. What do you got?
Speaker 1: One time I made up completely made up information, I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't, I don't even know. I don't
Speaker 1: remember what I wrote. I just know I made something up,
Speaker 1: and I'm just going through this whole like what do
Speaker 1: I do? What do I do? I also didn't want
Speaker 1: the drug used to end, because you know, I was.
Speaker 1: I had to use more and more to actually escape
Speaker 1: all of this the torment and to actually get really
Speaker 1: really high. So I just I didn't, you know, but
Speaker 1: what happened was and actually the reason I even wrote
Speaker 1: this book is because not to show off like this
Speaker 1: is what happened to me. The reason was because one
Speaker 1: time when I was in Atlanta, I was involved in
Speaker 1: an incident with one of his friends who you know.
Speaker 1: So there's a party drug called GHB, and like a thimbleful,
Speaker 1: can make you feel like you're drunk, and it hits
Speaker 1: the same parts of the brain. The gays love it.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just it's just an easy way to
Speaker 1: feel really drunk. The problem is if you mix that
Speaker 1: with alcohol, it's it just shuts the system down. It's lethal.
Speaker 1: And this one friend that I only met that night
Speaker 1: who I was giving drugs to, he on his own,
Speaker 1: we think drank alcohol after he had the GHB. And
Speaker 1: you know, when somebody falls out from too much there
Speaker 1: also is when somebody falls out from too much GHB.
Speaker 1: We just put them on their side, they go to sleep,
Speaker 1: that's it. But we never think that they mix it
Speaker 1: with alcohol. This guy did, and all those consequences that
Speaker 1: I never thought what happened to me. I was still
Speaker 1: still in disbelief that these things would happen to me,
Speaker 1: and by that point I was arrested. I was an
Speaker 1: informant I totaled my car, I had been in threatening situations.
Speaker 1: I was now a full blown drug addict. But still
Speaker 1: the consequence of actually somebody actually oding was just not
Speaker 1: computing to me. So I had many opportunities to potentially
Speaker 1: save his life if I acted sooner. And that's my biggest,
Speaker 1: biggest regret for my time out there. I finally did act.
Speaker 1: You know, I got my friend. We were at the club,
Speaker 1: and he was hysterical because you know, by the time
Speaker 1: we looked at the friend, he was blue face. I mean,
Speaker 1: his eyes were still, I mean, the guy was. I
Speaker 1: started doing CPR. I mean it was a very classic
Speaker 1: dropped him off the er and sped away. I was
Speaker 1: very high, it was very paranoid. I was very all
Speaker 1: kinds of things, different state of mind. I get all that,
Speaker 1: but still it's a major regret, to the point it
Speaker 1: terrified me from traveling. So now Steven's out of the game,
Speaker 1: I'm back in DC. I don't have a supplier. I'm
Speaker 1: with nothing but the core cases looming. I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do two weeks later, And this
Speaker 1: is the reason why I'm actually running the book or
Speaker 1: I wrote the book. I get a random phone call.
Speaker 1: I was the last number that this young man who died.
Speaker 1: I was the last number on his phone bill. And
Speaker 1: his mother, I mean this deep, like I don't know Alabama.
Speaker 1: Georgia act like she was like, please don't hang up,
Speaker 1: just sobbing, and she just she just wanted to know
Speaker 1: what happened to her son. I was paranoid. I didn't
Speaker 1: know how she got my number. At that point, all
Speaker 1: kinds of things are running through my mind. I'm even
Speaker 1: thinking like is this like a setup to get cops
Speaker 1: for the cops to get me to confess. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a drug addult, paranoid mind. And she just
Speaker 1: begged to know what happened to her son, like why
Speaker 1: was he dead? I hung up on her, and that
Speaker 1: was the beginning of the end for me. I mean
Speaker 1: it was very dramatic. I even stood up. I had
Speaker 1: a glass bong, like a meth bong in my hand,
Speaker 1: and I was like, get up. It was very dramatic,
Speaker 1: but it was like I still feel that twenty some
Speaker 1: odd years later in my book. After a year later,
Speaker 1: after I got sober, I tried to find her and
Speaker 1: I could I couldn't find her. I tried recently, I
Speaker 1: couldn't find her. So my book is also like a
Speaker 1: message in a bottle to potentially this grieving mother who's
Speaker 1: still out there, to offer her some solace if she's
Speaker 1: looking for that. She may not even be looking for that,
Speaker 1: but this is my way of making an amends to her,
Speaker 1: is to like really get this book out there. But
Speaker 1: after that happened, and with more pressure from the investigators,
Speaker 1: I needed to do something, and so I had one
Speaker 1: of my runners was by day hairstylists, and he would
Speaker 1: do house calls, but most of his house calls at
Speaker 1: this point were to cut someone's hair and to deliver
Speaker 1: my drugs. So we had a lot of clients like that,
Speaker 1: and one of them was this girl whose boyfriend was
Speaker 1: trying to get into the business. The only catch was
Speaker 1: he was supposedly tied to the Russian mafia. And when
Speaker 1: he first told me that, I was like, get the
Speaker 1: fuck out. What do you get the shut just no,
Speaker 1: like no. But at this that was before all this
Speaker 1: went down, And once this all went down and I
Speaker 1: had no other options, I said, fuck it, let's do it.
Speaker 1: And I met him and he claimed to be Russian mafia.
Speaker 1: He looked he was early twenties like I was. He
Speaker 1: looked Russian mafia. I mean he put a it was
Speaker 1: an in pearl inlaid gun, like just on the table,
Speaker 1: just to make sure I knew I was not you know,
Speaker 1: he was not somebody to fuck around with. He had
Speaker 1: the best meth I had ever come across, and that
Speaker 1: I'm sure anybody would have ever come across. And he
Speaker 1: wanted me to, you know, he had pounds of it
Speaker 1: and he wanted me to, you know, supply the city
Speaker 1: with it, and so I did, and uh uh. The
Speaker 1: myth was so good that I ended up using most
Speaker 1: of it and not selling it. And I started owing
Speaker 1: this guy money and he started threatening me more with
Speaker 1: like do you know who I work for? They're watching you,
Speaker 1: And so my paranoid mind, I swear I saw old
Speaker 1: Russian ment following me everywhere. He put the gun in
Speaker 1: my face, he would pin me. He was also very attractive,
Speaker 1: and so I was like it was really messed up
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, okay, man, uh uh, but
Speaker 1: I was trying. I was trying. I was, And that's
Speaker 1: when I was like, am I turning in the Russian mafia?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Is that what I'm doing here? Is that am I
Speaker 1: about to do this, because like that would definitely get
Speaker 1: my case cleared. I didn't wear a wire or anything,
Speaker 1: but you know, it took the in my Bookie's name
Speaker 1: is Serge. She went by or Vediem. Sorry, his real
Speaker 1: name was Serge, but he goes by the Vedemon the book.
Speaker 1: There you go. He would always meet me at a hotel,
Speaker 1: but eventually he trusted me enough for me to go
Speaker 1: to his apartment. So and also he started talking about
Speaker 1: like his brother was having a baby, He's going to
Speaker 1: be an uncle. Like he started giving me more personal stuff,
Speaker 1: and in my mind, I'm like begging him to not
Speaker 1: tell me this information because now I'm just getting more
Speaker 1: and more information to tell these investigators because the clock
Speaker 1: is ticking and I'm almost there. But it got so
Speaker 1: bad because I started owing him, I mean thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars that I had to just cut off,
Speaker 1: like not cut off. I just avoided him. And so
Speaker 1: now here I am about to have to go to
Speaker 1: my sentencing. This mother recently called me. I'm feeling like
Speaker 1: the worst piece of shit in the absolute world, Like
Speaker 1: how can I be like this? I deserve everything bad
Speaker 1: that's happening to me, this guy's threatening my life. Wait
Speaker 1: if I get off this case, is he get to
Speaker 1: still thrown? Wait? Is he gonna kill me if I
Speaker 1: turn him in? Wait? What does that mean? And I'm
Speaker 1: also a piece of shit? Oh wait, I actually can't
Speaker 1: stop using drugs. This is like the first time I'm
Speaker 1: realizing that. And then my only solution was like, I
Speaker 1: fucking deserve to go to prison. I deserve it. I
Speaker 1: can't stop it, Like I was, like it or go
Speaker 1: run away and hide. So when I showed up to
Speaker 1: my sentencing, I was like proud that I wasn't a rat,
Speaker 1: but I was also like looking for the safety even
Speaker 1: though prisons scared the living shit out of me, and
Speaker 1: the investigators were constantly like, dude, you don't know what
Speaker 1: it's like in there. We do, you won't survive, like
Speaker 1: they were constantly making it like the most terrifying thing
Speaker 1: in the world. But out here was terrifying. And my
Speaker 1: parents and my family, what were they gonna do? What
Speaker 1: were they gonna do? This was like all a situation.
Speaker 1: I was just this was I've always tried to find
Speaker 1: a way to describe the level of loneliness that I
Speaker 1: felt because I was hiding from the world by being
Speaker 1: in the drug world. Yet in the drug world, I
Speaker 1: now had a secret that I was hiding from even
Speaker 1: the closest people I was with, that I was this informant.
Speaker 1: None of them knew. Absolutely nobody knew. So I was
Speaker 1: like alone, like just crushed under everything that was happening.
Speaker 1: So that's part of this sentencing was just giving up.
Speaker 1: Was just like I can't I'm done. I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do. I'm done. But when I showed up
Speaker 1: for the sentencing, you know, I had a court appointed lawyer,
Speaker 1: this guy named Dennis Braddock Hart of Gold, I mean
Speaker 1: the classic like you know, he'd give me his last
Speaker 1: sandwich kind of guy. In fact, in fact, way back
Speaker 1: when when I was first arrested and he was first
Speaker 1: appointed to me, and the night after my arrest and
Speaker 1: you know, he's walking me out of the courthouse, he
Speaker 1: gave me twenty bucks. He was like, I'm sure you
Speaker 1: need this kid like that kind of guy. He's with
Speaker 1: me and we're standing up before the judge and this
Speaker 1: young prosecutor stands up and the judge you can see
Speaker 1: like in his eyes like he's ready to just sentence
Speaker 1: me to everything like ten plus years your fucked kid.
Speaker 1: But the young prosecutor was just like, you're on a
Speaker 1: resking for this case to me dismissed. And Dennis is like,
Speaker 1: don't say anything. I'm like, I don't know what the Fu's happening.
Speaker 1: And the judge is even confused. He's like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: what are you sure? And he repeats it, and the
Speaker 1: judge was like, case dismissed. And you know, mister Braddock
Speaker 1: grabs me, pulls me to a side room, sits me down.
Speaker 1: He's like, what did you do? I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: in the tweaker world, people say they know somebody who
Speaker 1: did something. I mean one of the one of the
Speaker 1: main dealers until he was busted three times was a
Speaker 1: retired federal judge. I mean this guy. There was this
Speaker 1: guy who lived, you know, near the capitol and he
Speaker 1: was a retired federal judge and like his house was
Speaker 1: a known like I mean, you went there and like
Speaker 1: whatever you imagine a drugged nd to be, That's what
Speaker 1: this was. And this guy, you know, so people, you know,
Speaker 1: one of one of the people I dealt with was
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say who, but there was was
Speaker 1: a campaign finance manager, you know, from one of the
Speaker 1: Senate campaigns. Another was a retired pop star. So like,
Speaker 1: people do stuff, but I didn't think anybody who's actually
Speaker 1: gonna do anything, and I don't think anybody actually did.
Speaker 1: But I said that to that mister Braddock, and he
Speaker 1: was just like, I've done hundreds, if not thousands, of these,
Speaker 1: and I've never I've never seen this before. And I'm
Speaker 1: exactly like how I am now. I'm just like, He's like,
Speaker 1: you are, this is your second You are get out
Speaker 1: of here and never come back. And and uh, I
Speaker 1: got out of there, and I'm in shock, and I
Speaker 1: you know, I called my mom and she was, you know, sobbing,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like really experiencing this, Like I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is my end. Okay, this is my out. And
Speaker 1: then I walk a few more steps and I start
Speaker 1: craving myth. I walk a few more steps, I start
Speaker 1: craving other drugs, and then I walk a few more
Speaker 1: steps and then I'm like, I can't get out because
Speaker 1: Vadim was threatening my friends, so I have to keep
Speaker 1: dealing in order to pay them back.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: And so I lasted six more weeks based on that,
Speaker 1: and it got dark and those six weeks is when
Speaker 1: it got dark because I didn't now I didn't have
Speaker 1: any money. So what did I do? I in a
Speaker 1: hilarious chapter in my book, it's not what you think
Speaker 1: it is, but I definitely was paid for sex. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually full sex, but I was paid for it.
Speaker 1: It was a terrible experience, but I got enough for
Speaker 1: an eight ball to start, you know, doing my business again.
Speaker 1: But I was, I was. I was long gone those
Speaker 1: last four weeks. And also I lived in an abandoned apartment.
Speaker 1: My running mate, this gal who is closest to she
Speaker 1: was starting to live there. Other friends had, but it
Speaker 1: was abandoned because it would flood out. It was a
Speaker 1: basement apartment that would flood and the rain so it
Speaker 1: had this moldy smell and like from rain water. And
Speaker 1: I was like on an air mattress. And I was
Speaker 1: convincing myself that I was here to make some more
Speaker 1: money to pay off the dem which which was stupid.
Speaker 1: And so when this running mede, this girl is with,
Speaker 1: when she came to me two weeks before my twenty
Speaker 1: third birthday, and she said, I don't want you to
Speaker 1: get mad at me, but I want to get sober.
Speaker 1: I want to go to rehab, and then I can't.
Speaker 1: I should, you know not. I looked at her and
Speaker 1: I was like, I looked at her, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, you can do that. Like I didn't know
Speaker 1: that was an option. I truly, I you know, in
Speaker 1: the nineties, it was like train spotting. So it was
Speaker 1: like Heroin addicts in a haunted house. Like I just
Speaker 1: didn't know, you know. A side note. When I did
Speaker 1: go to rehab, eventually, I was in that half of
Speaker 1: the people I was in there with were suburban moms
Speaker 1: who couldn't stop drinking chardonnay, So like re answer anybody.
Speaker 1: But I was like, I suddenly had this out. I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well, you know, my birthday is in
Speaker 1: two weeks. Let's celebrate my birthday and have a going
Speaker 1: away party and so and we'll stop then. And I
Speaker 1: was serious about that. But when we hit my twenty
Speaker 1: third birthday and the clubs, by the way, they all
Speaker 1: knew me. The owners knew me. I didn't, you know.
Speaker 1: They gave me a going away party at one of
Speaker 1: the biggest clubs there. They just handed it to me,
Speaker 1: because you know, and we had the going away party
Speaker 1: and then you know, the next morning came and it
Speaker 1: was when I was supposed to stop using. And this
Speaker 1: is when all illusions, this is when everything, everything, whatever
Speaker 1: mental constructions I was building in my head just shattered
Speaker 1: to the ground because I was like screaming at myself
Speaker 1: to stop using, but literally my body was keep kept
Speaker 1: putting the pipe up, and all illusions that I could
Speaker 1: stop were shattered. And that's when I realized I had
Speaker 1: an absolute absolute. I was fucked. I had an absolute
Speaker 1: This is you know. I came back into my body
Speaker 1: for the first time in two years, and a small
Speaker 1: window opened up where I realized we had a Kate
Speaker 1: Lexi in the book. We both recognized we had a
Speaker 1: small window to jump through, and so we did. And
Speaker 1: eventually she called her parents and I called mine, and they,
Speaker 1: you know, they picked us up while I'll say this
Speaker 1: and then this is the end of that story. I
Speaker 1: got through it actually faster than I ever have. By
Speaker 1: the way, you're you're helping me be more efficient with it.
Speaker 1: This honesty of suddenly saying I have this talk about authenticity,
Speaker 1: I can't stop using. I need help. I made my
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend come and get all the drugs I called
Speaker 1: my parents and while they were on their way, I
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. Vadim was still calling me
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do. And he shows
Speaker 1: up and I didn't know what to do. But I
Speaker 1: was doing this honesty thing, so I didn't know what
Speaker 1: to say. So I said, hey, man, I'm getting sober.
Speaker 1: Can I pay you back in installment plans? Can I
Speaker 1: have a payment plan? I didn't know what else to say.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I was like, I'm going to rehab,
Speaker 1: and I shit you not. My editor made me change
Speaker 1: the wording of this because it sounded too like unrealistic,
Speaker 1: but I swear to you. He took a beat after
Speaker 1: I said I'm going to rehab. He took a beat
Speaker 1: and then, looking wistfully, he's like, you can do that,
Speaker 1: Like he said the same thing I said. I was like,
Speaker 1: what is up with this world? And so and I'm like, yeah, man, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can totally do that. And then there was another
Speaker 1: beat and he's like looking wistfully off and he turns
Speaker 1: back and he's like, you know, I've always wanted to
Speaker 1: sell real estate in Baltimore. Yeah, man, you you can
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, yeah, you should do that, man, and
Speaker 1: then there's another beat and then he was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, forget about the money, good luck, and my
Speaker 1: mouth just dropped and it confirmed, you know, what I
Speaker 1: was doing was the right thing. And then I got
Speaker 1: in the car of my parents like white suv or minivan,
Speaker 1: odesty minivan, just put my head between my legs and
Speaker 1: just we were off And that was the beginning of
Speaker 1: my recovery journey. It sounds so unbelievable, but it's all
Speaker 1: in the book. It's how it happened.
Speaker 2: That is insane. What made me laugh was like it
Speaker 2: reminded me of blow with Johnny Depp, except yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: a whole lot weirder and a whole lot more luck.
Speaker 2: Especially when you were talking about the hairdresser, was like
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ Almighty.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't even I didn't even talk about so
Speaker 1: when I after, this is so funny. This is just
Speaker 1: to add to the weirdness and the absurdity of everything.
Speaker 1: So right after I got arrested and nobody would deal
Speaker 1: with me, the only person that would was this high
Speaker 1: powered DC attorney who you know, knew better. Like he
Speaker 1: was like, kid, you're not gonna fuck with me, Like
Speaker 1: he just essentially said that to me, and I was
Speaker 1: playing dumb. I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: I have not done a uninformant. He was like, dude,
Speaker 1: you're an idiot. But I became his dealer and his
Speaker 1: girlfriend was this She must have been early fifties. She
Speaker 1: probably was in her forties, but she looked like Shirley Temple.
Speaker 1: She had freckles and she was a prostitute. But she
Speaker 1: was half deaf, so you had to really speak up
Speaker 1: and articulate. And so what happened. What happened was I
Speaker 1: lived with her the first couple of months of just
Speaker 1: getting out. So in the studio apartment was this fifty
Speaker 1: year old drug add like tweaker, like prostitute, half death.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, Kimmy, like that, I'm living with her.
Speaker 1: So it's just this absurd scenario that I was that
Speaker 1: I was first put into a bunch of characters.
Speaker 2: So when are you going to work on the screenplay?
Speaker 2: Is my next?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's for sure happening at the same time
Speaker 1: because you are definitely not I mean, people want to
Speaker 1: see this. I mean you'll see it in your mind. Obviously,
Speaker 1: you'll have your own everybody has her own idea. But
Speaker 1: I I would I am working on the screenplay myself,
Speaker 1: but you know, I would love it. I'd love to
Speaker 1: hand it off to a direct with his own vision
Speaker 1: because I want to see how somebody else does my story.
Speaker 1: But I can. Yes, I'm working on the screenplay, so
Speaker 1: you have like the architecture of everything, but I want
Speaker 1: to hand it off so somebody else can, Like, how
Speaker 1: would somebody else approach this? I'm obviously too close to
Speaker 1: the material.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 2: Do you really think all of this just happened for
Speaker 2: a higher purpose even though it was? Hell, I what.
Speaker 1: A great question. If I want to have a better
Speaker 1: time at life, it behooves me to believe that. I
Speaker 1: think for a while there I was more of the
Speaker 1: nihilistic what's the point? We're all just you know, going
Speaker 1: through my phases of understanding spirituality or higher power, whatever
Speaker 1: you will. But I do choose to believe that there
Speaker 1: was a purpose for sure, particular to my soul's authentic
Speaker 1: journey through that. Regardless of that, even an atheist who
Speaker 1: would look at my story and be like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: you weren't meant to be out there. There's too many
Speaker 1: there's too much good luck and too many close calls
Speaker 1: like you are you are lucky, lucky, lucky, And clearly
Speaker 1: you were meant to get through that part of your
Speaker 1: journey pretty quickly because it burned. I burned through that real,
Speaker 1: real fast. And if my journey is now on this
Speaker 1: other side where I'm sharing it like this, then this
Speaker 1: is another part of this is an extension of the
Speaker 1: journey to what end. I don't know. I told you
Speaker 1: my own personal which is an amends, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to make up for the awful choices I made,
Speaker 1: regardless of the state of mind that I was in.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a perspective on my story where I
Speaker 1: just made a bunch, not a bunch, I just made
Speaker 1: a bazillion really bad choices, and irregardless of the amount
Speaker 1: of pain I was coming through. You know, I painted
Speaker 1: a quick picture of what I came from, and that's
Speaker 1: that's not even all of it. Obviously it's not all
Speaker 1: of it, but there has to be a purpose to it.
Speaker 2: During your time in rehabilitation and all of that, what
Speaker 2: was the turning point for you when you said, Okay,
Speaker 2: I think I got a handle on this and I'm
Speaker 2: actually ready to live In reality, there's two moments.
Speaker 1: I would say that first year I did, I did
Speaker 1: rehab in Northern Virginia and then I did an outpatient
Speaker 1: program in Washington, d C. At the Whitman Walker Clinic,
Speaker 1: and I had a really wonderful counselor there. And that
Speaker 1: first year I was kind of like I was cocooned.
Speaker 1: I was in this bubble. I was just like I
Speaker 1: was still dreaming of, you know, being this big, working actor.
Speaker 1: You know, they were fairy tales at that point. I
Speaker 1: never actually thought it'd be where I am today. But
Speaker 1: they drove me. But I was still so it wasn't
Speaker 1: like I ruined my life and now I'm building back up.
Speaker 1: I never had a life period. It just didn't feel
Speaker 1: like that. So the rules, the tools for living my
Speaker 1: specific lite, I just I was building from the ground up,
Speaker 1: from the ground up period. And so it wasn't until
Speaker 1: that counselor who saw, you know, he believed in me,
Speaker 1: he saw something in me, and he really pushed me.
Speaker 1: He's like, listen, you can't you can't just sit here.
Speaker 1: You gotta go. You gotta go out there and you
Speaker 1: got to live your life. You say you want to
Speaker 1: do the acting, you need to go like he just
Speaker 1: he basically shoved me into reality, and I'm gratefully did
Speaker 1: because Los Angeles has some of the best recovery in
Speaker 1: the country, in the world, and you know, since the pandemic,
Speaker 1: now everything's on zoom and stuff, so people are experiencing
Speaker 1: the recovery here. It was that. And then I had
Speaker 1: another incident where, while you know, my first year in
Speaker 1: LA I was at a meeting and I was deeply
Speaker 1: moved because there was this very big bear of a
Speaker 1: man who was the lead share at a twelve set meeting,
Speaker 1: and he was sobbing, sobbing in gratitude because he was
Speaker 1: so grateful that he was sober that he could adopt
Speaker 1: his sister's children. And he was so grateful that he
Speaker 1: was sober that he could adopt his sister's children because
Speaker 1: she was still an addict and was selling her four
Speaker 1: and six year old for money, fucking devastating, and so
Speaker 1: he was available because he was sober to adopt them,
Speaker 1: and he was sobbing. And that was the other That
Speaker 1: was the moment of I guess one was shoving me
Speaker 1: into reality. This was understanding my place in reality, like, oh,
Speaker 1: there is a higher purpose for me getting sober. This
Speaker 1: is not about me anymore. This is this. I mean,
Speaker 1: that man just changed my life just by him expressing that,
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, there's there's other reasons for
Speaker 1: me being sober other than me just getting sober.
Speaker 2: It kind of like broke a glass case and let
Speaker 2: you out, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. So there's so many questions I could ask you.
Speaker 2: I just feel like you've shared this really huge, intense story.
Speaker 1: You were you riveted and captivated.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was like I was like, wow, I
Speaker 2: can't wait till he sends me the book. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I'm going to read it for sure and be
Speaker 2: like what the hell. But you know, okay, so this
Speaker 2: is the inspiring segment of this podcast. I get okay
Speaker 2: because it's like, okay, see, your your shit out of luck,
Speaker 2: you have nothing to scratch your ass with, and you're like,
Speaker 2: I've got to become an actor real fast, and I
Speaker 2: got to succeed at it when the odds are like
Speaker 2: ninety nine percent failure for everyone. You know, how did
Speaker 2: you do that? I mean, obviously you're lucky. Obviously somebody
Speaker 2: smiling on you. Well, you know, the.
Speaker 1: First five years that I landed in La. It was
Speaker 1: it was two meetings a day. It was just it
Speaker 1: was just about putting one foot in front of the other,
Speaker 1: like I said, not just rebuilding, but building, Like who
Speaker 1: am I? What am I doing doing all the therapeutic
Speaker 1: work like all that kind of like it was just
Speaker 1: like what is happening? Yes, I was taking acting class?
Speaker 1: Is I? I do believe in acting. In booking acting work especially,
Speaker 1: there is a large you would you call it luck.
Speaker 1: But I also believe that, like you know, my previous
Speaker 1: story that I shared had a purpose, So then my
Speaker 1: acting story, if you will, is also going to have
Speaker 1: a purpose. And so there's reasons unbeknown to me. Why.
Speaker 1: You know, ten years ago, I was just booking work
Speaker 1: like right after the other, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is easy. Look, anybody can be an actor. And all
Speaker 1: I had to do was show up to the audition
Speaker 1: and do the deliver. And then there you go. It's
Speaker 1: on me to think, oh, I'm special because I'm booking work. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's that's no, You're just right for the part,
Speaker 1: and that's what happens. But then years where there's a
Speaker 1: shift in the industry and I'm not booking work. I'm
Speaker 1: not on top of the world. I'm not feeling wanted.
Speaker 1: I'm dealing with all those feelings I had previously that
Speaker 1: I would normally turn to myth, but now I get
Speaker 1: to process them in this way and stuff all the
Speaker 1: way to like, you know, more recently, it's all turning
Speaker 1: around again. It's like, Oh, here's all this acting work.
Speaker 1: Let's just keep going and stuff like that. The thing
Speaker 1: that I would say how it turned around, the thing
Speaker 1: that I would say if it helps anybody else, there
Speaker 1: is inside of me, especially for my heart. I think
Speaker 1: in my heart that me as an artist in general,
Speaker 1: is my to use the title my authentic path. And
Speaker 1: the reason I feel that is because it's very clear
Speaker 1: when my heart is singing about something, when my heart
Speaker 1: is into something, when my heart feels the most joy
Speaker 1: about something, that is a sign post that is a
Speaker 1: oh I need to move in this direction. And it's
Speaker 1: because I really enjoy this. I have a lot of
Speaker 1: fun doing this. What that looks like? This guy loves
Speaker 1: to figure out what that looks like, and he's always
Speaker 1: upset because it never looks like what he wants it
Speaker 1: to look like. That's not my job, and that's what
Speaker 1: I've come to learn is not my job through the
Speaker 1: years taking me a long time to get there. My
Speaker 1: job is to listen to this and follow forward with that.
Speaker 1: So the results of that, like, you know, how did
Speaker 1: I book so much work at the beginning? How my
Speaker 1: booking work all? Again? You could say it's because I
Speaker 1: listened to this and I just kept moving forward. Yes,
Speaker 1: did I do anything special to book all that other stuff? No?
Speaker 1: So that the luck part is more like what's right
Speaker 1: for me at that time based upon higher whatever. I mean,
Speaker 1: if somebody wants to go deeply spiritual with it, it's
Speaker 1: like whatever is God's will or God's path. Not rolling
Speaker 1: my eyes at that, I'm just saying like, whatever language
Speaker 1: somebody wants to put in that, I mean. Then that,
Speaker 1: you know, brings in the argument of how much control
Speaker 1: do you think we actually really have? What does that
Speaker 1: look like?
Speaker 2: You know, I get what you mean. People are always like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's the universe, or it's God put me on this
Speaker 2: path or whatever. But as a person, I consider myself
Speaker 2: to have a very deep spiritual site. But I also
Speaker 2: am very realistic and I think it's all about just
Speaker 2: hard work. It's all about your mindset. Are you going
Speaker 2: to keep trying until something happens. Are you going to
Speaker 2: get out there and make it happen for yourself? Because
Speaker 2: nobody's really going to put stuff on your plate, you know, correct?
Speaker 1: I mean even I always used the measure of I
Speaker 1: always do use the measure of what's happening in my heart.
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is like every year.
Speaker 1: You know this, I don't need to tell you or
Speaker 1: anybody listening to that there's a ton of rejection in
Speaker 1: my industry. You know a lot of people, if they're
Speaker 1: lucky in their life, that are not in Hollywood, go
Speaker 1: on five, maybe ten at the most job interviews in
Speaker 1: their entire life. There's been months where I do ten
Speaker 1: in two months, ten in a month. You know, those
Speaker 1: are job interviews, Like I have to put everything into
Speaker 1: that to show up to try to get hired, and
Speaker 1: then they don't even It's worse, they don't even tell me.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. They just ghost you, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like whatever you can do to like move
Speaker 1: through that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I know exactly what you mean, especially when you said
Speaker 2: they just ghost you. I came from a background.
Speaker 1: I was in music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't an informant, but I had a background
Speaker 2: where heavy drug use was involved in It shaped my
Speaker 2: life for a long time until I was maybe about
Speaker 2: twenty five, and I ended up in a lot of
Speaker 2: rooms through sheer hard work with a lot of my heroes.
Speaker 2: And I met my heroes and I realized that they
Speaker 2: weren't the people I thought they were. And I realized
Speaker 2: how much politics and you know, auditioning for certain bands
Speaker 2: and stuff, and it wasn't even like yeah, it wasn't
Speaker 2: even like okay, So, like you've probably experienced this. You
Speaker 2: can be the most technically efficient and qualified guy for
Speaker 2: the job, but they pick somebody else because they just
Speaker 2: look the part, or they've got connections or something like that.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of really talented people out there
Speaker 2: who end up not being seen or heard because of
Speaker 2: politics or favoritism and things like that. Or you know,
Speaker 2: even in strange cases, maybe you're just not like into
Speaker 2: witchcraft or something, or it's something spooky. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of shady stuff that I've seen. I've seen a full
Speaker 2: spectrum of things, and people think that you're like I
Speaker 2: want to be conspiracy theorists, or you're making it up
Speaker 2: or something. But he there's a whole big white world
Speaker 2: out there with so many different options, and you have
Speaker 2: no idea what you're gonna run into. And I learned that,
Speaker 2: and I also realized that the music industry can be
Speaker 2: a very dark place. And like you, I listened to
Speaker 2: what was in my heart, and I stopped trying to
Speaker 2: be that guy, the super successful, famous guy. I'd seen enough.
Speaker 2: I'd ate enough dinners with enough A and rs, and
Speaker 2: it had way too many overtly sexual propositions, and just
Speaker 2: been asked to do too many things that wasn't me,
Speaker 2: that I just wasn't prepared to do. And then I
Speaker 2: just started to follow my heart elsewhere, and I realized
Speaker 2: that I still have a purpose for it. So I
Speaker 2: took it to just doing regular stuff, doing regular bar gigs,
Speaker 2: do charity events. You know, you do pediatric cancer gigs.
Speaker 2: You get to hold a little kid and sitting to
Speaker 2: a little kid, and that's fulfilling. And that was actually
Speaker 2: way better than trying to play for thousands of people
Speaker 2: and get a record deal, you know, so, and it
Speaker 2: was definitely beatsitting down in a studio somewhere being a
Speaker 2: hired gun that actually just sucks. You never know when
Speaker 2: you're gonna get paid.
Speaker 3: Me.
Speaker 2: You know, you never know who you're going to touch,
Speaker 2: so it's a guessing game. And the only thing that
Speaker 2: got me there was following my intuition, my passion for it,
Speaker 2: and realizing that a million people could play guitar as
Speaker 2: well as I did and not care about the people
Speaker 2: on the receiving end as much as I did, and
Speaker 2: they might succeed for one reason or another. But I
Speaker 2: felt like I was going to succeed because I felt
Speaker 2: like I was doing what was morally right, Like I
Speaker 2: felt like I was doing what was right for other
Speaker 2: people and not just myself. Even in my darkest times,
Speaker 2: that was my only guiding light, so to speak. So
Speaker 2: I'm saying that because I mean, you're a successful artist,
Speaker 2: you're a good actor. I've only seen the clips because
Speaker 2: everybody that listens to this podcast knows I don't watch TV,
Speaker 2: but I understand the magnitude. Criminal Minds has been around
Speaker 2: for a long time. Yeah, you know, it's a big
Speaker 2: deal to be on that the CW. It's a big
Speaker 2: deal to succeed like that, So it takes a lot
Speaker 2: of heart and thank you. I just wanted to, you know,
Speaker 2: commend you for going through all of that and coming
Speaker 2: out on the other side, and maybe you went through
Speaker 2: all that crap and you know whatever they want to
Speaker 2: call it, Baby Jesus or whoever is giving you this
Speaker 2: opportunity to be in front of all of these faces
Speaker 2: so that you can share your message, share your story.
Speaker 2: It'll change people, because it's like, yeah, it's like a
Speaker 2: once in a lifetime chance to just do the stuff
Speaker 2: that you've done and then live to talk about it,
Speaker 2: first of all, but then also be put in front
Speaker 2: of so many different faces to get interest in you,
Speaker 2: in you as a person, and share real helpful stuff
Speaker 2: with people, because there's a lot of empty vessels out
Speaker 2: there on TV that you know, you see them and
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, this person has nothing to offer me
Speaker 2: as an actual person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for saying. I have a
Speaker 1: lot of gratitude for what you just said. Was that's
Speaker 1: thank you. That's very nice. Yeah, thank You're welcome in
Speaker 1: that way. You're adding purpose to my sobriety in my life,
Speaker 1: and I I really I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, that's what this show is all about. It's
Speaker 2: about bringing really interesting and as authentic as possible information
Speaker 2: to people so that they can do what they want
Speaker 2: with it, hopefully move on an arc that will change
Speaker 2: their lives. And I would definitely say you're doing that.
Speaker 2: Thank god Surge didn't get you.
Speaker 1: I yeah, you know, and who knows where he is.
Speaker 1: I have no way of contacting him, but you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I would have almost considered
Speaker 1: him a friend except I couldn't. But I I definitely
Speaker 1: believe in the you know, don't worry, be happy, but
Speaker 1: do your best. And when my heart is in something,
Speaker 1: I do my best. And that if I can't do
Speaker 1: my best in something, my heart isn't in it. And
Speaker 1: that kind of tells me the direction that I'm heading
Speaker 1: in now. I've had to support my dreams through the years.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a table server for years, way
Speaker 1: back in the day, you know. So it's like, sometimes
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that, but if I'm supporting
Speaker 1: the bigger thing where my heart is, then yes, I
Speaker 1: will do that. And I'm just saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: as a side note. You know, it wasn't It's not.
Speaker 1: This hasn't been easy. None of nothing in my life
Speaker 1: has been easy. In fact, again, I really appreciate what
Speaker 1: you just said. It really warms my heart because honestly,
Speaker 1: now is when I feel like my life is really beginning.
Speaker 2: Now. I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying, man,
Speaker 2: because I know what it's like to give a guitar
Speaker 2: lesson for like twenty five dollars or whatever, and then
Speaker 2: you gotta buy a loaf of bread and get to
Speaker 2: your audition with that money, exactly. Yeah, and then you're
Speaker 2: walking down the highway thumbing it because you got to
Speaker 2: get home. You know, Like, I know exactly what that's like.
Speaker 2: And it's about the willingness to have that experience and
Speaker 2: not be like this is a punishment somehow because I
Speaker 2: have to work hard for something. It's not a punishment.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: If you're again, if your heart is still in it,
Speaker 1: then that is the sign to keep going.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. And I mean like in my case,
Speaker 2: I I came out on the other side of addiction
Speaker 2: much easier than the average person. Sounds like I was
Speaker 2: just like, fuck this, this is stupid. Why am I
Speaker 2: being this stupid? And it was not a show. And
Speaker 2: I was getting really into psychology and wanting to go
Speaker 2: back to school to study it because I did it
Speaker 2: in university and stuff. But long story short, my psychology
Speaker 2: professor was a pedophile and he was sleeping with one
Speaker 2: of the young girls in the class or something. He
Speaker 2: got kicked out and they never hired a replacement teacher.
Speaker 2: So we all just kind of ran around like crazy
Speaker 2: people for the rest of the semester. Wow wow, and
Speaker 2: just trying to wring our exams and whatnot. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a I'm going to do the music thing.
Speaker 2: This is crazy. So wow, you know, something came back
Speaker 2: around for me and I was like, I'm gonna take
Speaker 2: this opportunity because this feels now like the right direction
Speaker 2: to going and maybe I can touch some people. And
Speaker 2: you know, here we are touching people, not inappropriately but
Speaker 2: not inappropriated. So I guess I don't know when I'll
Speaker 2: get to talk to you again. So I have to
Speaker 2: ask you, what was it like just getting on a
Speaker 2: popular role like and stuff like that. What was it
Speaker 2: like when that really hit home for you?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how many of your my
Speaker 1: generation do you close enough to my age? I mean,
Speaker 1: we all know who Angela Bassett is. I mean absolutely
Speaker 1: this younger generations obviously know from you know, Wakanda Forever,
Speaker 1: but its Angela Bassett. I mean, fucking in the nineties,
Speaker 1: it was like Angela Bassett. So that particular experience was
Speaker 1: that was a trip because it was originally supposed to
Speaker 1: be one episode, but they liked what was happening so
Speaker 1: much that they turned it into that three episodes, and
Speaker 1: then they turned it into this whole arc and this
Speaker 1: whole villain arc. And when I first got the role,
Speaker 1: realizing that all my scenes were opposite her, there was
Speaker 1: one Okay, I was split in two one half scared
Speaker 1: the shit out of me.
Speaker 2: I was about to say, she looks like a pretty
Speaker 2: intense person.
Speaker 1: Scared. I was just like, this is like, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so much money. This is you know, primetime network shows.
Speaker 1: There's a ton of ton of money. I mean, just
Speaker 1: as an example, there was one scene where it was
Speaker 1: like ten fire and they had to make a mock
Speaker 1: highway scenes. There's like ten fire engines, ten ambulances, one
Speaker 1: hundred extras, two hundred crew. I mean, it was like
Speaker 1: an epic movie set and here here's me pulling up
Speaker 1: and the camera's following me navigating through all of that,
Speaker 1: and I'm not a series regular, So I'm not used
Speaker 1: to like this high pressure of this whole thing, and
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking the whole time, you know, be menacing,
Speaker 1: don't fuck up. But like, I mean, just like that anyway.
Speaker 1: So half of me was like scared shitlessen out of
Speaker 1: my mind. The other half of me was like like
Speaker 1: holding on to like, oh my god, I get to
Speaker 1: go to to toe the Angela Bassett, like this is like,
Speaker 1: this is the dream, this is what it's about. Let's
Speaker 1: get in there, let's play, and you know, and when
Speaker 1: I met her, she was just as delightful as I
Speaker 1: hoped she would be. And it was all about the work,
Speaker 1: and it was like, let's get in there, let's do
Speaker 1: the work. I mean, she's the leader of the show,
Speaker 1: so like she was on to the next thing. She
Speaker 1: had so much to work on. But I would say
Speaker 1: my goal walking into it knowing that I was going
Speaker 1: to just have to be more focused and more you know,
Speaker 1: more centered than probably I'd ever been in any acting role,
Speaker 1: just to you know, do my job. That I knew
Speaker 1: a lot of it was going to be. I don't
Speaker 1: want to say it was gonna suck. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say that, but you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: hide the fact that, like, you know, you're scared shitless
Speaker 1: the whole time. But my goal was to find is
Speaker 1: to find some joy in there, some some fun. So fine,
Speaker 1: some fine, some fun in there, and then you know,
Speaker 1: after getting a few takes out proving that you can
Speaker 1: do the job and stuff, then the fun started coming
Speaker 1: in and so it was like I felt very successful.
Speaker 1: So I enjoyed. I enjoy the memories of that experience
Speaker 1: more than the actual because it's a really it's very
Speaker 1: different if you're a series regular, because everything is built
Speaker 1: to support you. I mean you, it doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: you do. You are in the show. You were locked
Speaker 1: in versus like the guy coming in. Everything is working
Speaker 1: against you. You think you're about to do your big
Speaker 1: scene with your big monologue. Oops, nope, we're not filming that.
Speaker 1: Actually no, we just cut that. We added this. Can
Speaker 1: you memorize this in an hour? Like everything's against you.
Speaker 1: So it's just like you're bracing for impact and just
Speaker 1: it is like acting school, just trying to show up
Speaker 1: for a show up for it. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: give you like, oh my god, it's like dream come true,
Speaker 1: which it is, And I'm grateful. But in reality, you know,
Speaker 1: if I when I book, you know they could bring
Speaker 1: me back because my character didn't die, it will be
Speaker 1: a very different experience because I was pushing up the
Speaker 1: on the edge of my capabilities, which is always uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Creates anxiety, but it's good anxiety. There is good anxiety.
Speaker 1: So that now and I was very present, I owned
Speaker 1: the whole experience. I feel like I owned it, meaning
Speaker 1: like I was just I was kind and patient and
Speaker 1: loving to myself to the whole thing. Then now when
Speaker 1: they call me back, it'll be very different experience on set,
Speaker 1: Like I feel more. This is how you build confidence,
Speaker 1: and for me, this is how I build confidence. It
Speaker 1: was like I was very present for that last experience.
Speaker 1: I proved to myself I could do it, and I
Speaker 1: could do it with a little bit of joy. This time,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a little bit more joy and a
Speaker 1: little bit more fun. Let's go and then build the
Speaker 1: confidence and build it and then build it, and then
Speaker 1: suddenly you're Hugh Jackman, who you know can do anything.
Speaker 1: That's why they seem so calm and comfortable. Celebrities or
Speaker 1: you know, everybody we admire stuff just because they just
Speaker 1: built the experiences, and some of them have just built
Speaker 1: more steps than I have at this point. But I'm
Speaker 1: always pushing my threshold, so I'm always like, ill that
Speaker 1: creative anxiety. Did that answer your question? I mean I
Speaker 1: probably did.
Speaker 2: It did. What's interesting is, so I haven't seen the
Speaker 2: Husband's show.
Speaker 1: Oh you can find that on YouTube now. It was
Speaker 1: that was that was such a good show and it
Speaker 1: was breaking records online and it was a newly wet
Speaker 1: SITCOMBA with two guys. And this was still early twenty ten,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't There wasn't gay leads on shows yet.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was like the new normal, but.
Speaker 2: That wasn't like the L word or something, you know, like.
Speaker 1: We're specifically like for a gay niche. We were trying
Speaker 1: to do a mainstream gay like Will and like another
Speaker 1: version of like a Will and Grace, and it was.
Speaker 1: It was a hit, and CW made it their flagship
Speaker 1: show for their new online thing, and then they were
Speaker 1: about to move it and make it their flagship show
Speaker 1: for their actual network. But such as Hollywood, it just
Speaker 1: I'm not a producer on the show, so I don't
Speaker 1: know the truth of what happened, but it just disappeared
Speaker 1: one day. I don't know who got in a fight
Speaker 1: with who. I don't know what happened, And that was
Speaker 1: that's part of the upsets, Like, I mean, they were like,
Speaker 1: get ready, Sean, You're about to be a big TV
Speaker 1: comedy star. Get ready and then gone. I mean I
Speaker 1: quit acting.
Speaker 4: For a year.
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck this. It was so depressed. But anyway,
Speaker 1: you can watch it on YouTube. The stuff we did,
Speaker 1: we made online. It's still very entertaining.
Speaker 2: M m okay, yeah, I'm just curious about that because
Speaker 2: you know, there's so many CW shows that have come
Speaker 2: and gone.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not very good. I'm so sorry. I
Speaker 1: have friends that did a bunch of those shows, but
Speaker 1: they're not meant to be. They're not They're not HBO Max,
Speaker 1: They're not that. I will say Ours. You know, Ours
Speaker 1: was you know the the director you know was a
Speaker 1: producer on Will and Grace and Friends. And you know
Speaker 1: the writer, Jane Espenson. She started on Buffy. You probably
Speaker 1: know where. She did a couple episodes of Game of Thrones.
Speaker 1: What's that other sci fi? She has a lot of
Speaker 1: sci fi things, Battlestar Galactica and then some comedy sit
Speaker 1: coms in there, and so like we had like an
Speaker 1: a team. It was good stuff.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think interesting, very interesting. They seem to do
Speaker 2: better with their superhero stuff for one reason or another.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, they realized this, this is working,
Speaker 1: whatever Greg's doing over here, So let's just let's just
Speaker 1: corner that. And that's what they did for a long uh,
Speaker 1: superheroes and vampires. That was their corner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, all right, So what are your
Speaker 2: plans moving forward? What are you going to do with
Speaker 2: your career? Are you going to write more books? Tell
Speaker 2: me about that real quick.
Speaker 1: Sure, Well, the plan right now is to get that
Speaker 1: darn publication date so that I can give that to
Speaker 1: you and be like here's the here's the date it's
Speaker 1: coming out, and here's your copy of the book. Also
Speaker 1: working on the screenplay of that as well. So that's
Speaker 1: that's there. That is moving forward. I have a bunch
Speaker 1: of other screenplays and you know TV pilot pitches that
Speaker 1: I'll say for another conversation, but those are always working.
Speaker 1: And then it's auditioning. It's just auditioning, auditioning, auditioning, and
Speaker 1: it's it's the industry is constantly changing as they say,
Speaker 1: especially after the strike and after you know, the pandemic
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So it's just it's just trying
Speaker 1: to get more opportunities. It's just trying to hustle out there.
Speaker 1: Like I told you when we signed on, I just
Speaker 1: came from came from an others and that's just the
Speaker 1: way it goes. So I know where I want to go.
Speaker 1: And of course I want to be a serious regular.
Speaker 1: Of course I want to work on Broadway. Of course,
Speaker 1: I want to you know, work you know, whatever feature film.
Speaker 1: Of course we do. But just as we already kind
Speaker 1: of said, there's I can show up, do my best,
Speaker 1: my best version of that character, you know, try to
Speaker 1: be the nicest, try to be a person they want
Speaker 1: to work with and be friends with for the next
Speaker 1: six months of filming, a likable human or something. But
Speaker 1: that's the most I can do. If they don't, you know,
Speaker 1: their vision of how this character is is I don't
Speaker 1: match it, then I don't match it. Besides, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be something that they I don't. I want
Speaker 1: to be something that my heart'sn't like, a character that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love this character, like I want to be hired
Speaker 1: for that versus like trying to be what they want.
Speaker 1: My heart's not really in it. It's just makes it
Speaker 1: a slog. It doesn't make it fun. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: don't know, asked the universe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it would suck too if you were
Speaker 2: like one of these actors that kind of gets cast
Speaker 2: in a particular role all the time, because then you
Speaker 2: just kind of becomes that guy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, that guy has no problem being
Speaker 1: a cog in the wheel, uh, you know, in the
Speaker 1: machine of things and is happy getting that paycheck, like
Speaker 1: you know what. You know, back when I was serving tables,
Speaker 1: I would have been happy to do that. Are you kidding? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know all right?
Speaker 1: Gold golden, golden handcuffs. You know it's like.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Yeah, I get what you're saying. So tell everybody
Speaker 2: where they can find you.
Speaker 1: Most everything I announce or drop or talk about is
Speaker 1: on my Instagram at sean Hemian and uh and or
Speaker 1: my website sean Hemian dot com. I post them both there.
Speaker 1: You'll see a lot of my art these days. I've
Speaker 1: been a painter for over ten years. That's also what
Speaker 1: I've been doing with my time, abstract expressionist work. It's
Speaker 1: just I love it so much. It's just my other
Speaker 1: thing that I've done for myself for so long. But
Speaker 1: now in the last five years have been really putting
Speaker 1: out shows and you know you'll see it's all there.
Speaker 2: Gotcha? All right? Well, Sean, thanks for being on the
Speaker 2: Boneless Authenticity Podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. This was such
Speaker 1: a pleasure.
Speaker 2: You're welcome.
Speaker 3: So you're listening to the Boundless Authenticity Podcast where we
Speaker 3: discuss everything related to the evolution of human consciousness.
Speaker 4: That's very least to understand that the United States builds
Speaker 4: bonkers which are based in cities on your every three months.
Speaker 2: Basically in your dream, you tuck into your self conscious
Speaker 2: it is your.
Speaker 1: Lot in solution or creativity.
Speaker 4: And imagination unchanged from conscious reason ego and locate all.
Speaker 1: Of your large quote for her the soul by how
Speaker 1: there are consciousness spect cultures of the gum for you
Speaker 1: of agriny.
Speaker 4: We live in a multi dimensional reality, whether it comes
Speaker 4: through esetary information in the spiritual realms or the UFO
Speaker 4: people experiences, or mainstream through on the physics and through
Speaker 4: natreum science. Now realizing that parallel dimensions probably exists, we're
Speaker 4: all spiritual.
Speaker 1: Means we're all having these human experiences. We've heard that
Speaker 1: place over and over and over, but what does that
Speaker 1: really mean? You know, all of the questions of life,
Speaker 1: we have these answers inside of our soul. We're ultimately
Speaker 1: studying the nature of what it is to be human,
Speaker 1: good and evil, our psychology, how we fitink, our health.
Speaker 4: That's why I love Bruce Lee's great quote all knowledge
Speaker 4: is ultimately self knowledge.