Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for
I don't even know what date, because we're recording live
from the Texas Tribune Festival. I am Matthew Watkins, editor
in chief of the Texas Tribune, joined as usual by
my co host Eleanor Klibanoff.
Speaker 2: Hello, Eleanor, Hello, I see you did not even attempt
to get my title this time.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, too much pressure. And we are joined this
week by a very special guest, former House Speaker Dade Feelin.
Thank you for joining.
Speaker 3: Us, my pleasure, Thank you for having me, and I
appreciate the audience. You're being sponsored by petro Chemical. Beyond
petro chemical, that appears to be the case. Yes, yeah,
well we love petro chemicals to Southeast Texas, so thank
you for doing that. It doesn't smell like Southeast Texas.
But anytime you have petro chymicals around me, that's a
good day. Yeah, appreciate it.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Speaker for feeling. It has been about
I think two and a half months since Chuck Norris
announced that you would be retiring from the Texas House,
and I will say that we and the Tribune newsroom
have have enjoyed watching your Twitter feed from there, you
seem like a weight is lifted from you as you've
taken tell us a little about your feeling you're thinking about,
you know, not running again, and how you're feeling about
that right now.
Speaker 3: It is phenomenal. You wake up and you really like,
why did it ever do this? To begin with? I
see my colleagues doing fundraisers and town halls. I was like,
never again, do what I have to do that. I'm
two itches taller, I'm five years younger, I'm regrowing my
hair a good It's a good thing. But truthfully, honestly,
when I got in in twenty thirteen, when I announced
in my first session in twenty fifteen, I always thought
ten years was kind of like to cut off from me,
and I ended up going twelve, mainly because of the
speaker thing. I mean, I probably would have been done
with it ten years, so it was a good time
to exit. I'm very proud of my accomplishments. I'll put
them up against any member that's ever served in the
Texas House, especially what I've done for my community back
home in Southeast sex Is. I couldn't be prouder and
I couldn't do alone. I mean, I had wonderful staff
and colleagues and friends along the way in both House
and Senate to make it happen. So it was just
a good time to do it. Just turned fifty, and
so I've got many chapters ahead of me that just
won't involve fundraising and block walking and knocking on doors,
and I'm very excited about them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious, having been a member of the of
the House, speaker and then a post speaker member of
the House, which one's the most fun? Which one did
you enjoy the most?
Speaker 3: Oh, without doubt, when you first get elected, that's the
best time because you could screw up all the time.
You say that much as a dumb freshman, and you
got to get out of jail free card over and over,
and you use it. You know, the states get a
little higher when you when you move up the ladder
a little bit, and when you become a chairman, and
of course when you come speakers, it's not near as fun.
It's it's it's important business for the state of Texas,
and it's wonderful work for your community and for your colleagues,
but it's it's not as fun.
Speaker 1: How do you feel over those years that you've been
in the House, how do you feel about the way
the chamber has changed? Are you feeling better or worse
about the same?
Speaker 3: About about No, I don't feel good about it, and
it's because so much has change, and I'll be everyone
blames social media. Social media, Yeah, but there's some truth
to that. There's a lot of truth to it. It
was not it was not as front and center in
twenty fifteen as it is in twenty twenty five. I've
watched members of the Texas House changed their votes based
on a tweet that someone put out just seconds ago.
That was not the case ten years ago. And so
you know the way that it's digested. Sometimes it's you know,
Twitter's not real life. Everyone always says that it's really
notly not real life, and and you start peeking behind
the curtain and you realize the the analyticals and house
it's able to be abused. And I mean, I know,
I know people who've set up algorithms and bots just
by buying burner cell phones and able to create profiles
that interact with one another and talk about things that
these aren't real people, these are just cell phones. But
it impacts some elected officials and that's real. Uh, and
it's it's it's interesting, and it's also the the small donor.
The small donor. Uh world is new to me. Uh.
You see members that are able to raise hundreds of
thousands of dollars and just a moment. I mean, you know,
Matt Gaetz, for instance, as soon as he was able
to dispose of Kevin McCarthy within seconds, had a fundraising
tweet and email go out and these hundreds of thousands
of dollars that didn't happen ten years ago. So it's
a whole new world and we had to get our
arms around it a little bit and ultimately elect officials
who are not beholden to such swings and on their
cell phone. It's just done.
Speaker 1: Make any sense, Yeah, I mean, I think you the
traditional way to gain power in the House or any
legislative body, right would be to work well with others,
build relationships, grow trust, and be there for a while,
grow some seniority. That is still obviously a way to
gain power and influence in the chamber. But I mean
we are seeing members who you know, are are taking
alternate paths right and using their their Twitter feed, their
x feed to stir things up, using it to you know,
go against any kind of compromise and things like that.
Did that make it harder for you to preside over
the Chamber?
Speaker 3: Yes, obviously it's a distraction, but you're right, it is
a different path forward for some individuals, and we're it's
it's a bipartisan problem. They are Republicans and there are
Democrats who do this. They're not just in the Texas
House the Senate, they're in the Congress. Obviously. It's just
a whole new world. And they're not there to legislate.
They're not there to vote their district. They're not there
to they'll tell you they don't want to pass a bill.
They're there to put sand in the gears. Which that's fine.
It plays well, it gets them clicks and retweets, and
it does raise them money. It's terrible for their district.
I mean, if you're in the Texas House, that's two
hundred thousand people back home who aren't being represented, and
that's that's a shame. But yes, it definitely definitely makes
it more difficult, no doubt about it.
Speaker 2: I feel like there's that balance that House members have
to sort of find between party, your own district, the
workings of the House itself. I mean, how did you
sort of balance those pressures And do you feel like
that's a there's a shift in in that balance.
Speaker 3: I don't know if there's a shift. I truly believe
most members are voting their district ninety nine percent of
the time, for the most part of the time, they're
voting their districts because that will. That is what gets
you beat ultimately, is when you vote start voting against
the people, the very people who send you up there.
You can only do that so long and get away
with it. You could do it for a couple of
sessions and then bounce off to Congress or you know,
run statewide. That may work for you, but it's not
gonna work long term in the Texas House, which is
a good thing. But yes, my philosophy was vote your district. Members,
Always vote your district, and I'll support you no matter
what you do, as long as you're voting your district.
And it's one of the reasons I ran for reelection.
You know, this last cycle is what I didn't you know,
I didn't want to walk away and leave a lot
of members who voted their districts safe, like for instance,
on school choice. I mean, these are you know, men
and women who voted their district and not to have
a speaker there to fundraise and try to help them
out as best someone could. I mean, I was never
envisioning the onslaught of money coming out of the state
and having to compete with that. But yeah, you know,
I didn't care whether they were four against school choices,
just vote your district. And a lot of them felt
like they were voting the district and and you know,
of course they got beat and the message back home
was not about school choices. They weren't strong on the
border and that was the message. And many of them
voted for every border initiative we had. So you know,
I think speaker Boroughs and the speakers you know, bonding
and and and strouss and cracking. It wasn't you know.
In my lifetime, I've always encouraged members to vote their district.
And you know, a speaker who doesn't do that won't
be speaker along.
Speaker 1: So, as I recalled the you brought up school choice
right the as I recall that as it played out
in twenty twenty three, you sort of took a neutral
stance on it. You know, well, if it has the
votes in the Chamber, it'll go through. If it doesn't,
it won't. That you mentioned was very costly for you know,
you in for a lot of members in the Chamber.
Came back in twenty five and you were, I believe,
a vote against the bill. Right. I wonder, just as
you look back at that process, are there are there
any regrets there? I mean, if the measure ended up
going through, you know, two years later the House changed
dramatically as a result of that, do you ever look
back and think, maybe I should have just gotten it through?
You know, two years earlier.
Speaker 3: There was no getting it through. The votes just were
not there. I mean, that is probably the only time
in my tenures Speaker did I bring a bill to
the House floor that I knew did not have the votes. Now,
there are times when bills get the House floor and
crazy things happen, and someone gets in the back mic
and blows up a portion of it that no one
paid attention to or and then I was like, well,
we're not voting for this piece of crap, and it
goes down. That happens on occasional, right, And sometimes it's
petty people are sending a message to someone they don't
like when they vote their build down. Right, that happens.
It's been not on a major piece of legislation. And
I brought school choice to the floor's just because you know,
the votes weren't there, and I'm going to show you
the votes are not there, and what't me put my
thumb on the scale. And honestly, it gave a handful
of members who voted against the Herrera Amendment, which has
always been a litmus test whether or not it's basically
always an amendment to ban any money in the budget
being used for vouchers, and it's always a test vote.
And the Horra Ament passed again earlier that session, and
there were members who flipped their vote on the Horrerad
Amendment to the school voted yes some school choice and
they were spared the wrath of in that primary. So
really it got about four members out of the you know,
out of trouble, so to speak. But I brought it
because the votes weren't there and the only way we
were going to in the NonStop special sessions was to
have that vote. I mean, I knew we were going
to come back over and over again until we had
the House vote. You know, after three or four special sessions.
The only people who were winning out there are divorce attorneys.
Divorce attorneys and bankruptcy attorneys. Those are the ones who went.
After about three or four specials it was just time
to go home, have the vote. Let the chips follow
they may uh.
Speaker 2: And go home the I mean this session there was
a lot of pressure also on members to vote for
school choice. What did that feel like from your perspective?
I mean, what sort of pressure were you facing? What
were you hearing?
Speaker 3: Zero?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Do they?
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I've never been more at peace with
the vote that was as controversial as that. My district
is just they're not for it. And I mean I
did my homework, trust me, I would make certain I
was voting my district on this deal. And when I
say it was ninety percent against, I'm probably you know,
a little light there. It may be ninety five percent against.
And I constantly was out there on social media and
I was only and I know who's living in my district?
Speaker 1: Hot?
Speaker 3: I know, doesnet I polled in my district when I
was running for an awful election last cycle and run
off and whether or not that was an issue that
was a problem, and how do I you know, at
least message it right. It wasn't a top five issue.
And you know, no one, no one's even no one
even comes up to me at the grocery store the
hardware store and asked me about it, like they asked
me about everything else. And then no one's come up
and saying when do I can get in this pipeline
for this program. It's just it's a big deal in
some districts, like a lot of things are. I mean,
every all one hundred and fifty districts are different. But
in Southeast Sex's it's just not something we talk about.
Speaker 1: So why do you think it became I mean, I
think I know the answer to this, but I'm going
to ask you why do you think it became sort
of the dominant political issue in Texas for you know,
multiple years.
Speaker 3: It's always been a dominant issue. I honestly think we've
run out of things to talk about, and we've done
a lot of conservative things, whether you believe or not.
And I think it was just an unchecked box and
there's a lot of money behind it.
Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna I mean, you maybe jumping ahead
but like you allude to this, like a lot of
conservative things have happened into the Texas legislature, a lot
of conservative things while you were speaker. You have since
been portrayed pretty by many as a rhino, a secret,
a closet liberal, a democrat. If you will, what do
you make of that? I mean, are you hiding any
secret ACLU memberships we should know about?
Speaker 3: Listen? If I'm a closet liberal, we got some problems
in this world. I'm not going to go through all
my conservative bona fides because a lot of people in
this room will probably stone me on the way out.
I don't know if I could get out of Austin,
Texas a live. If reminded you all the conservative things
we did, but let me tell you why we did them.
It is because the votes were there, right, But we
also did things like you know, maternal health care for women,
Medicaid expansion, you know, from sixty days to twelve months.
Why because the votes were there. And in the Senate
they do it differently. They only passed legislation if the
majority of Republicans are in favor of it, and the
House no, if you get the seventy six you get
to pass your piece of legislation. It's called a constitutional
representative republic. And if you've got seventy six votes, you win.
And so you know, there are there some things that
we did that you know the conservatives don't like. Well,
go change the constitution and say only the prevailing party
can win. Right, That's not how it works. And you
know to those folks, listen, the day day you become speaker,
you are the boogeyman. You're everyone's boogeyman. You're not statewide,
not everyone voted for you. You know, it's easy to
demonize you. You know, you don't have one hundred million
dollars in the bank to defend your elf. Right, you
can't fund raise your round. You know, when I'm in session,
I can't fundraise, and then in special sessions I shouldn't fundraise.
And so yeah, I mean, when you become speaker, you
know your your your one hands tied behind your back
quite often. And you know, trust me, anyone who becomes
speaker becomes a rhino overnight, whether they deserve it or not.
So it is what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know you said you weren't going to
list off your conservative accomplishments. But I did bring a
list of but I'm going to say this for a reason,
right to the next question. Right, the so SBA passed
under your time the abortion bill that essentially stopped abortion
in Texas. You know, a few months before the Dobbs decision,
Constitutional carry, a measure that you know, before until you
became speaker, was you know, too far to the right
for Dan Patrick. He had been resistant to have it
brought it forward. Tens of billions of dollars in property
tax cuts, DEI bands on college campuses, banning ready blockers
for for children, billions of dollars on border security in
the border wall. I mean these are some rhino Yeah. Well,
and that's that's my point, right is, what is why
do you think you got painted that way with with
this list of measures past? What's what's the reason that
that keeps happening to speakers?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, a good you know, before I even
became speaker, when I had the votes and before I
was sworn in, my party chair called me a trader
because I had votes from both parties to be speaker,
which is every every every speaker in modern history has
gotten had votes from both sides. That's how you win.
I had the supermajority of the Republican caucus locked down
when no one else could beat me in caucus, and
then I went out and got enough Democrats that no
one could go around my back and get all the
Democrats to beat me. That's called winning, right, And that
was a problem for some people. How dare you work
across the eyes and by the way, we have a
very robust history in say Texas of working across the isle.
It's and you know, eleven hundred people move every day.
If things are so terrible, why is everyone coming here? Right?
And they're coming from places like New Jersey and California
and New York. I mean, y'all, I mean, and they're
they're some of them are very conservative. H You're welcome
to go back by the way anytime you want to return.
You you hauls go that way too, you know. But
you know it's at the end of twenty three, the
chair of the party at the time send out an
email saying we just had the most conservative session ever,
sending five dollars, ten dollars, fifteen dollars, and twenty five dollars,
and then three weeks later said we got to get
rid of that liberal speaker. Send me five dollars, ten dollars,
fifteen dollars, twenty five dollars. So it's a it's a grift.
They gotta have to some They always have to somebody
that the fundraise off of me. Personally, I've never been
with this, the Mago movement, Uh, this West Texas billionaires
who you funded my opponent last sight, I've never been.
I've never met them, I've never seen them. I've never
physically seen them. So maybe that's part of it. You know,
I'm just not in that crowd, and that's made that
scary to him. I don't know.
Speaker 1: So the House seems to be going through something of
a cycle here though, right this dating back to Joe Strauss,
who I think, you know would probably be the last
speaker who you could legitimately call, you know, a pretty
moderate guy. Right, He gets elected with the help of Democrats,
then eventually leaves. Then you have Dennis Bonnen, runs the
House very conservatively, he leaves, you come in, then you know,
of course Dustin Burrows after you. It seems like we're
sort of going down this path of you know, every
single speaker faces a whether you want to call it
grass roots or hardline or you know, whatever kind of opposition.
They eventually are sort of pushed out. Someone else comes who's,
you know, an ally of the person who came before them,
but maybe a little bit more conservative. You could make
the argument. The question I'm sort of building toward is
just how long do you think this can continue? I mean,
and do you think that there's a tipping point where
you know, that type of speaker is no longer in
place that could fundamentally change the House. And if so,
what does that mean for the chamber?
Speaker 3: Great question, I'll I'll push back on a little bit.
I will say Strauss was very moderate, but I mean
there was a lot of pro life legislation passed with
Joe Strauss. I mean, campus carry and open carry pass
with Joe Strauss. I mean those were big things at
the time, right, you know, the big and I wasn't
in the legislature of them, but the big abortion bill
with Twennye Davis and all that, and that was all
you know with Speaker Strauss. I mean he had conservative
resume as well, but for some reason got painted, you know,
as a moderate by a lot of folks. I will
say that you know, you bring up Speaker Bonn and
also a very conservative individual. But you know what happened
going into that cycle is a couple of folks almost
lost and they got him real close to losing them
just a couple of percentage points, and it was it was.
It was a kumbai a session, I'll be honest with
There was not a lot of red meat on the table.
Republicans were scared of red meat that cycle.
Speaker 1: This is twenty eighteen when when the correct Democrats picked
up a lot of ground.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they picked up twelve seats and the state wides.
You know, a couple of moments went down. So what's
the tipping point? The tipping point, in my opinion, is
when the first Republican statewide officeholder loses their seat deskally.
Speaker 2: The tipping point, you say, when, not if? Do you
think they any?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's I mean, one party ruled
for three decades. You know, yeah, sometimes you slip up.
I mean again, in twenty eighteen, it almost happen. We're
going into another midterm right now. The party in control
usually does not do well in midterms. I watched the
news last week. I saw what happened in other states.
That's not an eye opener. I don't know what is inflation.
Regardless of what mister Trump says, prices are not going down.
Your healthcare bill is about the double depending on what
you use. Right now, there's some whistling past the graveyard
right now. We've got to get a handle on this
or we're gonna have a very messy, very messy November
of next year. And you know, swing voters independence will
decide that. And you know, I'm concerned, and be honest
with you, I am concerned.
Speaker 2: I think before we sort of look ahead, although I
guess this is sort of a twenty twenty six question
in a way, when I've got something else that happened.
At the end of twenty twenty three, the House under
your leadership voted to impeach Attorney General Ken Paxton, a
fellow publican. You know, he was acquitted by the Senate.
That Texas Senate is now the front runner for US Senate,
you know, seems to have not really slowed him down
that much. But you meanwhile, you know, are You've faced
a very tough reelection, lost the speakership, and now are
you know, stepping down sounds like happily do you have
any regrets about how that played out? Do you sort
of look back on that now and see it any differently?
Speaker 3: Well, of course, hindsight's twenty twenty. I was, I was
naive to the fact that how it would be handled
the trial phase. And there's a lot that was never
brought to the jurors attention, that was not entered into evidence,
a lot of it. But was it the right thing
to do? Absolutely, I mean, I've seen all the files.
I'm I'm one hundred percent convinced it was the right
thing to do. I would I would disagree with you.
I don't think he's the front runner in this election.
I think he has more headwinds than he even knows,
and he's not raising money, and he has not gotten
this key endorsement that he thought he was going to get,
and that didn't tell you what you need to know,
then I don't know what does right, So that race
is wide open, and I would not call him the
front runner, but you know his that issue honestly did
not play in my primary, or to my knowledge, anyone's primary.
It really didn't quite. Frankly, it was not even a
fifty to fifty deal. I mean didn't. It wasn't moving
voters one way or the other. And you know, if
you looked at who he endorsed and for and against,
he wasn't particularly successful. No, but hey, listen, it was
the right thing to do. I wouldn't be able to
sleep at night knowing what I know and what those
whistleblowers went through, who were, by the way, exstaunchly conservative Republicans.
I mean, look at where they came from, and look
at where they are now that you cannot impeach their
true conservative bonafies, right, and then look whatever, Look what
all's come out since then with that gentleman all you
want to say his name, but look what's come out
since then? And you tell me if that wasn't the
right thing or the wrong thing to do. I know,
I'm one hundred percent convinced was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: You're clearly someone who's concerned about some of the direction
the Republican Party has gone, both nationally and statewide. You
just talked about how possibly the only thing that could
change it is, you know, defeat for the Republicans in
a year like twenty twenty six. I mean, are you
do you feel like that needs to happen. I mean,
do you how do you watch that?
Speaker 3: Then you're a I know, by no means why I
want it to happen. I'm just telling you that's what
gets people's attention. Elected officials are concerned about one thing,
losing it their next election, and if they think that
there's a path forward that is the safest, they're going
to take that path forward. I mean, that's just the
natural war of business. That's what you would do in
business or anything, you're running for school board whatever. If
they feel like, okay, this is now a liability, yea,
you know, then I need to change I need to
change course, I need change messaging. Again, go back to
twenty eighteen. That twenty nineteen session was totally different than
seventeen and twenty one, entirely different. Why because there was
a wake up call at the ballot box, right, and
we went down to eighty two seats in the Texas House.
That's not a lot. I mean, that's as close as
losing that we've had since it was seventy six, seventy
four years ago, right, and just a session of two
before that, we had one hundred and two Republicans. So
no losing is the ultimate wake up call. And I'm
not saying I want it to happen. I'm just telling you,
if it happens, there's going to be a reset. And truthfully,
if you want to impact these elections. And of course,
the Republican Party of Texas wants to close primaries, they
want fewer people to vote. My recommendation was, no, we
want as many people involved in the process as possible.
Because this is a democracy, and we elect someone to
go represent us as a constitutional republic. We want more
people involved. We know, And I'm not saying I'm going
out there and recruiting Democrats and voting Republican primary. I
don't want that to be the headline. But I know
there are a ton of Republicans who vote in the
general election that do not vote in the primary year
after year. And I don't know why. It's mind boggling
to me, but it happens. And so why we cannot
you know, both parties, why can't they get those Democrat
voters to shroping Democrat primary, Republican voters to stroking the
Republican primary, and then you don't have the five percent
of the left and the five percent of the right
controlling the entire process.
Speaker 1: All right, I want to you know, we've we've beaten
around the bush for long enough to bring up Donald
Trump tweet. Right, we were joking about this in the
green room before he came on, just a couple of
days before, a couple of days ago. You well, actually,
let me take a step back real briefly. Since you
announce your retirement, you've been you know, unfiltered, i'd say,
on on social media, you know, criticizing some of the
decisions that the president has made and other things like that,
this leading to a truth post.
Speaker 2: Are you going to do a Donald Trump impression?
Speaker 1: No, I'm not, absolutely not about where he says. Fortunately
for the great State of Texas, their former speaker who
is no longer speaker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who is no longer speaker.
Speaker 1: I liked that. Yes, yes, Dade Feelin is quitting politics.
He was the one responsible for killing every bill having
to do with voter integrity, capital the capital I and
school choice. Good luck in your next life, dad.
Speaker 2: So that's nice.
Speaker 1: Good luck.
Speaker 3: You know, it's very nice. I'm glad. One first name basis.
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 3: Okay, First of all, it's nothing really new. Before I
became speaker, I was a little critical of the man.
The problem with becoming speaker is and at least I
felt this way that everything I did was the reflection
of the body, and the people who supported me would
have to answer to anything I did. So if I'm
going to be critical of the President of the United States,
whether it's Joe Biden or Donald Trump, then my members
would be asked, well, are you still going to support
the speaker who just did that? Right? So I turned
my Twitter over to the professionals for four years, the
comms people people like you, and I didn't tweet. I
didn't look at it, I didn't care. But this is
nothing new. So first of all, I didn't We passed
one of the largest voter integrity bills in Texas history
as as a speaker. If you recall, the Democrats hated
it so much they left for seven weeks. If it
was such a terrible bill, I'd be such a rhino
bill they would have stuck around. Right. And again, school
choice didn't pass because of me. School choice just didn't
have the votes. So both of those are just fallacies.
But no, this is a funny story. I think you'll
get a kick out of this, all right, So I'm
at the Texas OU game, and I took a picture
with Jay Hartzel and he tweets it out, and so
people know I'm at the Texas OU game, and one
person in particular, who I probably crafted this tweet and
got the president to send it out. So Texas is
winning the game, beautiful day, horns, your up, everything is great.
Fourth quarter, Texas OU takes the lead. Fifteen seconds later,
Donald Trump tweets out Ryan o'dade feeling I'm gonna find
you an opponent. You're the worst. You need to audit
your elections. We just won an election where Republicans won
across the board. Why am I questioning the integrity of
Texas elections when we just won? He won? I mean,
why would I do that, sir? Waste the tax payer dollars.
So I get home, I'm a wife, is like, I
drive home that night. My wife's like, so, what was
worse Donald Trump tweeting it you guaranteeing you an opponent, which,
by the way, I didn't get, or losing to you.
I was like, without question, losing, oh you. I mean,
there's nothing worse than losing to you, especially after you
had the lead for three and a half quarters. So
it's really nothing new to have him come at me.
That's fine. Listen, I'll be the first. You know, it's
not a it's not a secret. I am not a
mag a Republican. I never have a bit of a
magi Republican. You know, I'm not a Donald Trump guy.
And it's again, it's the reason I decided not to
be speaker. Again. I could not carry his agenda through
the Texas House. It just wasn't and I wasn't put
my members in the position to choose between me and
Donald Trump. I will say since that truth social tweet
went out, it's been a very interesting thirty six hours
for the President of the United States. And so you know,
maybe that was the turning of the tide here. And
I don't say that globally, because the subject matter is
very serious. You know, women, maybe one thousands of women
were abused and and and there are very powerful men
and possibly women who are out there who are guilty
of that, and the American public and these victims deserve justice.
And it's been justice denied, and it's been justice delayed.
And that is a Joe Biden problem, and that is
the current president's problem. And I'm glad that Mike Johnson
is guaranteed a up and down vote next week on
this issue. Let's get it out there and let's get
it past us. But you know, the emails that were
released from you know, the foundation or the family of
Epstein or very concerning I mean I'm not implementing or telling,
you know, asserting guilt, but very concerning messaging in those emails.
Speaker 2: I'm curious with I mean, the president getting so involved
in the Texas legislature. I mean, we've had presidents who
were former Texas governors, so I don't think got this
involved in the Texas legislature. I mean, how has that
made it? How has that impacted the body itself sort
of how they govern.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean he's the president out of states, he's
the leader of the party. I think if any president
would have gotten involved, they would have had a huge impact.
I'm not saying he has a I mean he does
have a very large role obviously, and maybe more outside
influence than other presidents in the past. But I think
if other Republican presidents were gotten involved in in policy
at the at the state level, it would have a
similar impact as just no one's ever done it before.
Speaker 1: A lot of you said, you know, maybe someone wrote
that tweet for him. You know a lot of people
wonder whether you know the person who has his ear
on a lot of these Texas issues is Lieutenant Governor
Dan Patrick? Do you see his fingerprints on on some
of those posts?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. I don't think about the man.
I don't you know I did. I didn't spend a
lot of time thinking about him when I was speaker,
and I'm sure don't spend a lot of time thinking
about him that If that's how he wants to spend
his free time, then you know, go for it.
Speaker 1: What was it What was it like to I mean,
you know, you the two of you were two thirds
of the Big three, right for multiple sessions. What was
it like to work with him across the capitol?
Speaker 3: I mean, uh, sometimes it was it was it was
very pleasant and we were agreeable. And other times it
was you know, World War three. But my job is
not to make his job easier. My job is not
to represent his senators. My job is to represent the
one hundred and forty nine House members whom you know,
I am their speaker. And so you know, maybe there
was some disconnect there, like not understanding my job, my role.
But I'm very proud of how I protected my members
and how represented my members, whether they were Republican or
whether they were Democrats. You were the speaker of the
Texas House, not the speaker of the Republican Caucus.
Speaker 2: The other member of that big three, I mean Governor
Abbott obviously, you know, waged a pretty significant war against
members who had voted against school choice, unseated several of them.
What was your relationship like with him when you were speaking,
and what is that like now?
Speaker 3: We had a fine relationship, you know, I was very
I told him, you know, we were trying to get
this bill done and those specials and we were I
mean my staff and Kelly's right here. She worked in
the school choice thousands of hours to try to get
something done, and it was it was just impossible. I
mean every time, it was just there was so many
moving parts, and it was at that point in time,
it was impossible the House. The House members who were
opposed to school choice, especially the Republicans, were just not
going to agree to anything that was put in front
of them, and anything they wanted was a bridge too far.
And the Senate didn't want it or the government didn't
want it, and we spent I mean, I cannot tell
how many hours we spent on this issue. And I
was very up upfront with him. I just the votes
aren't there. We're going to take the vote, put the
votes on there. And then I went to my members
and said, he is not bluffing. He is going to
come after you. You do realize like you will be
in the crosshairs. And he's well within his right. Other
governors have done this, and he he's this is not
a joke. And they said, we get it, we're but
I just I voted against school choice for twenty some
odd years or fifteen years or whatever it was, and
my district doesn't want it, so I'm not doing it.
And so it was a very upfront conversation, like all
the cards were on the table. Everyone knew what they
were getting themselves into. And what happened happened. You know,
I hope for the best. I was at a public
education event last night in Waco, and and I hope,
I hope it works out, and I hope, you know,
there is synergy between you know, the school choice and
homeschoolers and public education and private schools and you know,
prochial schools. I hope it all works out because that's
what really this is all about the children. We want,
we want want, that's for the children in the end
of story. And so I do. Now it's the law
of the land, and I hope it is successful because
we just need a very We need more smart kids
in Texas, and everyone's moving here, they're moving their companies here,
and we need we need more school labor in the
state of Texas. We got a lot of high paying
opportunities in this great state. And you know, the way
AI is changing the world overnight, there's gonna be jobs.
You know. I saw an interview other day where a
guys said, it's not gonna be years, it's gonna be months.
With some of these professions are phased out, but other
jobs are going to take off and and and be
more efficient, be more opportunity. So we got to get
ahead of it. And it doesn't start with someone who's
in college. It starts with someone who's in grade school.
It starts with ten, eleven, twelve year olds. They get
them excited about, you know, the future here in Texas.
So I hope it all works out. It was not
a fun time to, you know, be running on the
pro looking primary. Trust me. Uh my poor district. Uh,
they never see anything like it. I can tell you
I got one hundred percent a name iudy Now though
I can't go to Achi b anymore and incognito, that's
for sure. Everyone knows who I am for better or worse.
So I still have not h I checked my bank
account the when I sold that land of the Communist
Party of China. The check never cleared. I'm still waiting
for that money. Apparently Amazon and everyone else didn't get
the memo that we're canceling Christmas for Ramadan, because that
was going to do that too. Trying to think what
else I did, Yeah, you had.
Speaker 1: Perhaps my favorite tweet maybe of the year, was when
Nancy Pelosi announced she was retiring. And for folks who
don't remember this or might not have ever known, there
was a political mailer right that had a photoshop of
your face hugging being hugged by Nancy Pelosi, right and.
Speaker 2: Not unattacked by Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, that was a very intense embrace. Yes, I've
never been in the same zip code of Nancy Pelosi.
I don't know her, obviously, it's funny. I go back home.
I to have people saying, how can you be speaker
and Nancy Pelosi? How can you have two speakers? Like
people just don't get it. And I'm like, she's in
Washington and I'm in Austin. You block walk from me.
How do you not know that? Anyway, Yeah, my wife
looks at my Twitter every now and then she's like,
why are you doing this? Like cause it's fun. I mean,
it's so fun, and it's it just points out the
absurdity of it, all the absurdity. And I had a bill,
of course, HB three sixty six was which was the margin.
I won about three and sixty six votes, And I'm
telling you that they're gonna we passed it out of
the House. The Senate never gave it a hearing, and
they elected officials in that building and around the country
and especially in the state because that's where we're applied
to obviously, but around the country they talk about it too.
But you know, AI, is it has gotten so much better,
like even every month it gets better or every week,
like and I'm like an old boomer, I guess because
I'll pull up social media and be like, how did
that ape jump off a diving board? I'm like, oh,
it's a you know, like I can't believe that dad
did that to this child. And you're like, oh, that's
because it is that real. If you don't think that's
coming to politics, you are insane. What's going to happen
is that someone's gonna run an ad with about ten
days left an election, and it's gonna have someone saying
awful things about somebody that aren't true, using horrible language,
and it's gonna be anonymous, and you're never gonna know
about it, and it's going to change the election, and
it's gonna be entirely one legal. My bill had nothing
to do with memes and people on Twitter. It only
applied to candidates, officeholders who are running, who are also candidates,
and people working on a campaign who are getting paid
by a campaign. Dealt with our little world that the
Texas at this Commission already regulates. Well, it's just gonna
be real photoshops one thing, but when you see a video,
it's pretty powerful. And with all due respect to some
of our voters out there who may be a little
bit older in age, they're a little more susceptible to AI,
my parents included, and they fall forward all the time
like that's I mean, it just doesn't compute that that's
not real. It just sounds and looks so much like
that person. So, yes, that was a fun, obvious, you know,
joke about how silly all this is, but also kind
of how scary it is at same time.
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer based on the fact
that you're tweeting photoshop pictures of you hugging Nancy Pelosi.
But do you see any political writing for other political
office or you know, campaigns in your future.
Speaker 3: Oh not unless you know a good divorce attorney. No,
not anytime soon. I mean, things have got to calm down.
It's just not the right political always. I joke about
this too, but you know, everybody running for office should
have to take a self awareness test and if they
can't pass it, they can't run for office.
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think we'd have that many people running
for office.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's not a bad thing. We got too many
political offices out there as is, But there are so
many people who run for office it doesn't matter what
office it is, and they have no idea how other
people see them, right, and they're able to get elected,
and you know, it's almost embarrassing to see them, you know,
on the stage and passing legislation or city councilor whatever
it might be. But I mean, my self awareness was
again the speaker's race, you know, coming into this session. Listen,
I'm not the guy anymore. What's happening in Washington is
going to be center stage in Austin. I shouldn't do this.
It's not fair to the members, it's not fair to
my family, and quite frankly, won't be any fun anymore.
And you know, my self awareness now is that until
things change in the Republican you know politics, You know
my I'm just an old school Republican. I mean, I
just believe in things like the Second Amendment and pro life.
I mean, imagine that right, low taxes, limited government. But
that's not really what's out there right now. It's just
a different world and it's just not for me right now.
So until things change, I'll just keep tweeting and make
you happy.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, I appreciate that it's fun for us.
How do you how do you want to be remembered
as speaker? Like what do you want people to look
back upon it asthinka.
Speaker 3: Just fair everyone had a voice. Listen. I got great
advice going in by both Republican and Democrat former speakers,
and that is that the majority will prevail and the
minority shall be heard. And that happened. Some didn't like
it that there was folks on the Democratic side of
it all didn't like some of the conservative wins. But
my goodness, when you have six of your own members
voting for pro life bills, of course it's going to pass.
I mean, you know we're talking ninety something of now.
Of course it's going to You have you have Democrat
members signing on to constitutional carry, and you think it's
not going to pass. I mean the majority is going
to rule, right, But at the same time, I mean
the minority is going to be heard. I mean, you know,
never was a fan of shutting off debate. I mean,
if there was six hundred amendments, we're gonna listen to
six hundred amendments. That's just the process. If you want
to go to bed early at night, that's fine. If
his job's too hard for you, don't run for it.
So I mean we have long nights. It is what
it is. I know y'all don't like it, but that's
that's part of the deal. I mean, we're only up
there one hundred and forty days and we have if
we have a couple of long nights because minority, whoever
that may be. The minority may be rurald Texas. It
may not even be Republican Democrat, right. It may be
a school, a school debate about a faths grows, schools
versus the you know, the transportation a lotment, right, fighting
for dollars. Minority should be hurt. So I always thought
it was a fair arbitrator of the rules. I mean
I called balls and strikes. Some people didn't like that
at but it was fair. It was it was a
good process. And again I'll put it all. I'll put
my record up against anybodies.
Speaker 1: So you're feeling thank you for joining us on the
trip cast my pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thank you,