Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster
movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield, and
I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by Ben Stover,
individual therapist, Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're all
licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists, who practice
out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed mental health professionals,
this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes and to fulfill
our love of dissecting pop culture and all forms.
Speaker 2: Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,
we aren't your therapist.
Speaker 1: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find
a local mental health provider.
Speaker 2: My lords, my ladies, and everybody else here not sitting
on a cushion today, Today you find yourselves equals.
Speaker 3: For you are all equally blessed. For I have the pride,
the privilege, nay.
Speaker 2: The pleasure of introducing to you a night's Tale, which
we are doing today.
Speaker 1: Yay.
Speaker 2: So today we're going to be covering the two thousand
and one ridiculous popcorn movie that holds a special place
in all.
Speaker 3: Of our hearts.
Speaker 2: A Night's Tale, we're going to be covering self determination,
purpose values, ego, dreams, chosen family, and then for treatment
today we're going to do something a little bit different.
Speaker 3: And rather than.
Speaker 2: Treat these characters, because really they're all a little too
flat to offer anything of substantive value, today, we're going
to talk about self care for ourselves and you, our
lovely audience. So let's dive into A Night's Tale.
Speaker 1: Well, Ben, what is an nights Tale about?
Speaker 2: It's a movie about rock and roll and jousting and
sex in that order.
Speaker 3: I mean, it does start with queens, so possibly, yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But A Knight's Tale is absolutely not a Knight
of the Seven Kingdom's exact plot, but done with rock
music and more two thousand's rom com energy. So what
happens in A Knight's Tale is that there is a
group of young squires who mid tournament realized that their
knight died and that they're going to be super fucked
if they don't finish the tournament. And William, the most
athletic of the squires played by Heath Ledger, decides, well,
I could probably get through this tournament. I've jousted lot
with Sir hector, and so he decides to do that,
and they survive the tournament. Then they decide, you know what,
we could probably keep doing this. We could probably just
go to a bunch of tournaments and win a bunch
of money in front that were actual royalty or knights.
And then, of course, the super handsome Keith Ledger falls
in love with the super attractive princess because.
Speaker 1: Duh, Lady Jocelyn.
Speaker 2: Lady Jocelyn is played by Shannon Sossamon. Yeah, the itch
girl of two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, every cool girl for sure.
Speaker 2: And then throughout this film, of course, he starts doing
well and a douche noble lord takes notice and offense
at being beaten by him, a hedge knight as it were,
and exposes him. So we go through this journey of
watching William rise from nothing to show his honor and
character and of course encounter a lord who's a total
ass and douche. And then, of course, throughout the course
of this movie, he happened to be jousting with a
real prince who sees his quality and later nights him
at the end, granting him the status that he'd always
dreamt of. Showing us that if you follow your dreams
and just believe and lie well enough for long enough,
you can be anything you want, including.
Speaker 3: The President of the United States of America.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, And I guess we should probably say up
top that we probably will be talking about an Eye
of the Seven Kingdoms here and there because it is
like almost like a bead for beads of our story.
It's impossible not to, I feel like, and so it's
the same story. So spoilers. If you haven't watched an
Eye of the Seven Kingdoms and you have watched A
Night's Tale, is that we might mention things about that
show and spoil it if you're planning to watch it
and you haven't got into it yet.
Speaker 2: Also, if you've seen a Night's Tale and haven't seen
the Night or a Night of Seven Kingdoms, more or
less you have seen a Night of the Seven Kingdoms, I.
Speaker 1: Say, hangs is better if you like a Knight's Tale
and you wish it was more depressed seven Kingdoms, and
I guess too.
Speaker 3: A little more psychologically relevant.
Speaker 1: Yes, something we've brought up. I don't know we actually
I think we talked about this more off mic is
that this the story that I had Seven Kingdoms is
based on the Duncan Egg stories came out like two
or three years before this movie A Night's Tale. And
I do wonder how George R. Martin Feldt about this.
You think he saw this in the theaters and was
like these motherfuckers who wrote this and read my story
and did it with Heath Ledger like this.
Speaker 2: I guarantee he felt that. Didn't you tell me? Wasn't
you who said that? There was one thing they weren't
allowed to say in the writer's room.
Speaker 1: In the writer's room of the show and Knights of
the Kingdoms are not allowed to bring up A Night's
Tale as a point of reference because because of the
similarities between the two stories, even though and then I
because of having Kingdoms technically came first.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure it inspired this. I mean their knight
dies by a tree. Dunks knight dies by a tree.
They have to go to a tournament and get new armor.
William has to go to a tournament and get new armor.
The armor comes from a girl, the shield comes from
a girl.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there's way too many.
Speaker 2: And yeah, is the one who ultimately grants him the
status a prince.
Speaker 4: Saves his ass, like it's yeah, literally, it's more it's
more outrageous watching it today, the one to one comparison
than I remembered.
Speaker 1: I remember just thinking, no, we got the same general premise.
A squire takes up his you know, knight's stuff after
the night dies and then kind of tries to rise up.
And then I was watching and I was like, damn,
like be even like the thing that really clinched it
is what I texted you all, which is even the
fact that like an heir to the throne is what
saves him in the end, that which literally both the
things is kind of wild. That's where I would if
I was George, I would be like, oh, come on.
Once I got to that part, I'd be like, well,
now it's undeniable that you're ripping me out.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wonder if he sued. I wonder just quietly.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'd have to haven't looked into that.
If anyone knows who's listening, email us or message us
on Instagram, or if.
Speaker 2: There was a quiet payment of yeah, we did it.
But so let's all just keep making money and we can.
Speaker 1: Jump into it. So the main character, as you said,
as well, also goes by Sir Alric when he's pretending
to be a knight. Got to say it von Lichtenstein.
Speaker 3: Yes, but you gotta know, sir.
Speaker 1: That place he's it is ten pm on a Sunday.
I shan't be screaming agreed, agreed, Gon wake up your
own kids, dude, But no, like so we meet. So
I think something that also is important to consider right away,
or to keep in mind right away when we talk
about Will is the fact that he is someone that
was sent away as a child by his father to
be a squire and in essence work on rising above
his station as much as you can in the position
of lower class that he was in as a child,
the class that he was born into as a child. Yeah,
and so he is, right from the jump instilled by
his father this value of like you were saying, self determination,
that you can change your circumstances. You can, what do
they say, change your stars? And that is a through
line obviously, because right in the beginning of the movie
when the Night dies, who they seem to not give
a shit about with the way that they treat him,
is that it's very quickly between oh, we haven't eaten
three days. So like survival wise, we have to compete
in this tournament. Okay, great, we got this gold feather,
we can sell it for money, and it goes very
quickly with Will from Great, we got our basic needs met.
We can keep on keeping on to Oh but actually
we can change our stars. We could use this money.
We can invest this money to actually work on rising
above our stations. So he very quickly integrates this into
the value he's been holding on to, which is I
want to do better than my circumstances.
Speaker 2: Whereas the other two seem to be largely content, going, no,
we're figuring stuff out, We're making it. This is where
we fit in the world and what we do, and
they resist Will a little bit at his insistence that
they can do this, like yeat, Nope, No, I'm gonna
I'm gonna take my money and eat and go home.
Speaker 1: Well, both those characters seem pretty content in their I
guess Station put it that way. I mean, obviously they're
not content in not getting their basic needs met because
of course, because when the movie opens, they haven't eaten
in three days, which is a lot. But they don't
seem to be invested in the idea They don't have
any ego in this or dreams or aspirations in the
sense of being more than what they are, even when
Will starts to get popular, become a superstar if you will.
What is kind of nice, which is the simplicity of
the movie, is there's no competitiveness between them, like, there's
no infighting around. Well, I want also be a cool
night too. It's they do seem contented to be the
sidekick in his story in a way that I don't
think is bad. It's probably really healthy. I feel like
it's just that they don't seem to be bothered by
the fact that they are comfortable in their station, just
like you're saying, like, I feel like they don't seem
to be really bothered by that and kind of are
happy just have their basic needs met and be good.
Speaker 2: I think the only incidence of infighting that we really
see is when they're arguing on the road before they
meet Chaucer about who's turning to stride the horse. Everything else,
they seem to be quite copesetic understanding it. I mean, okay,
look at us. Of the three of us, who's going
to be able to enter a ring and fight? It
will the end, And of course it's also from the
early two thousands where writing is very simple and the
plot just needs to move guys.
Speaker 3: So it's a non complicated, simple film.
Speaker 2: But yep, they seem very content, going like, you know what,
this is the most likely way we pull this off.
Speaker 1: No, you're right in that when they do have conflict,
it is more over survival, right, like I want us
to run and you want to stay. I want to
get some rest on the horse and you want me
to keep fucking walking. I want to go get food
with my I want to get five floorings worth of food,
and you're saying, no, we should invest in somewhere else,
which I think is just two different ways of dealing
with their lives because they're all in the same place
in terms of their station. And I think there are
a lot of people who I totally because I think
I'm more like this than like Will. I think you're
the Will of our group, Ben, and I don't know
who's who in terms of me and Hannah with Roland
and Wat. You know that Hannah is what I would
say I was wa and she's rolland number one fuckable
to you And also yeah, I get it, Yeah, I
mean I'm not mad about it because I think Will
is exhausting in this way, which is how I knew
that I'm not him.
Speaker 3: And I am.
Speaker 1: I think you are aspirational in that way. And I mean,
how many times of Hanna and I said, my biggest goal,
maybe my biggest goal in this life is to find contentment.
I don't know what that means exactly, and so that
is exactly the point. Then, I think it's just two
different ways of dealing with their life circumstances, Like I
can definitely understand Watt and Roland just trying to find
peace in this life, because being so impoverished is such
an unpeaceful way to live, obviously, and this is back when.
This is back when you could be so impoverished that
you would give your child away. As we see with
Will's backstory, his station was so poorly that his dad
gave him away to hope that he could rise above.
Speaker 2: It, and not just gave him away, but put him
in indentured servitude exactly. And he's, you know, a term
of seven years to learn a trade, to be able
to be able to make a chance to live, which
his father knew he couldn't give him or feed him,
it seems like, yeah.
Speaker 1: And so I can understand as a survival reaction, it's
almost a trauma response being in a place like watt
and Rolling where you're just trying to be comfortable secure.
And then also I could see for Will having his
own reaction, which is I'm trying to be so comfortable
so above where I'm from, and that'll help me feel safe,
or that'll help me feel something internally. And I think
feeling like that will make his father proud, because I
feel like, in a lot of ways, that's what In
a lot of ways, I think that's why we see
him as a little boy, and we see him really
believing what his father says and really supporting him, and
I feel like that's a part of it. And I
feel like versus Roland and wa who, it does seem
like we're also taken from their families and given around
the same age as well. Even though I think Will
was a fart had been away from home for longer
than them. When we see them all young, it seems
like they're all around the same age, So I would
assume that they all came we're all boys who were
given up by their families for one reason or another.
I don't know if that's what you guys think, but
that's kind of what I was thinking, which just makes
me really think about how much more intense was the
poverty that maybe Wat and Roland experienced versus William who
had a really loving father who you know what I mean, Like,
I just I'm just curious about that part.
Speaker 2: It looked to me like Watt was closer in age,
but Roland might have been maybe five to seven years
older when they were growing up. But yeah, I think
your point about them all probably having the same story
is one hundred percent on. It's quite clear that they
had a camaraderie and a connection to each other through
having a similar story and experience, And those three were tight.
They were very loving with each other in their own way.
I mean, as three you know, grown men, as men
tend to be with each other. That's that's what it
looks like. That's what a family of men together would
be like. They're like that, they're like brothers, like they'll
beat the shit out of each other, but also they
do respect and love each.
Speaker 3: Other and are trying to do the best things they can.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think and I think it seems like
probably Watt may have been coming from a hungrier place
because he seems to value food a lot, whereas Roland
seems to value family. So I wonder if Watt was
a straight orphan and he seems connected to like finding
that he mentioned kind of having a girlfriend or somebody
who wanted to go back to.
Speaker 3: But who is a cook? Are you talking?
Speaker 1: He's a cook? Like those two things I think are
still married in his mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's clearly someone who grow up without food and
he's that's that's become his central attachment point or its
rolling seems to value just connection home in England.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and you're right, like when they're on the
boat going back, they all mentioned how long it's been
since they were home quote unquote, well whatever they consider
home to be London. Oh sorry, my brain is like
low end sure gy today and I think we see
that's okay, Brittany, don't worry about it, girl, cause to
be uh completely honest with everybody, carry really Britney really
carries us a lot of the time, y'all. So I
can add, you're the rolling of the group, You're the
one who's pulling, You're the one sewing, and the pieces yes,
but I was just thinking about how when you know,
that's a part of how I think about these three
young men and how their narratives started about the world
and about themselves. And I feel like Williams seems to
have a real sense of determination, a real sense of
this is what I want, And I feel like Roland
and Wat it's very much more about basic need and
less about having something. And I think it just shows
where they all came from and what their values are.
And even though their values are different, they do seem
to be cohesive anyway, because I think, like Ben said,
they do feel like brothers and it does connecte like
you guys are saying that there might be differences in
their stories before they became squires, before they became indentured servants,
because as we're saying, something that will always can revisit
as a grounding mantra is the you can change your stars,
which you heard from his dad, and he's still very
connected to that part of his identity, and how it
does seem to give him a sense of self that
maybe the other two characters have because maybe they were
more roughing it when they were younger. Like we've talked
about a lot. When you are in circumstances where you
are struggling to get your basic needs met, you're not
contemplating anything that's close to self actualization. Who gives a shit,
you know what I mean? Like when you're trying to
just get food and shelter and close, you're not you know,
dreaming about you know what you're gonna be when you
grow up or some shit, you know what I mean,
And start the comparisons now. I think like in Nine
of Seven Kingdoms, Dunk is a good representation of that
because he is a true like Dick and was Dickenzian.
He's a true like Dickenzian orphan where he is in
a gang robbing, stealing. His life is really rough, like
he gets away out from this. But when we see
him in that story in the beginning, he's sad because
his you know, night dies, but he's not really thinking
about anything. He's not aspirational the way he will is.
He's truly thinking of it. He stays with the messaging
of I'll just pretend to keep doing this well one
because I've invested so much time. But also I don't know,
maybe I'll be a cop, you know, he said, I'll
maybe I'll be part of the Night's guard. Maybe I'll
just wander that way. Maybe also all the horses, because
I think he still has that mindset of I'm just
trying to get from this place to that place in
one piece, with enough food in my belly. I'm not
worried about being bigger than I am.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Dunk is also pretty caught up in trying
to get everybody else to feel about I forgot his.
Speaker 1: Night's name, but oh Alan Pennytree.
Speaker 2: Sir penny Tree the same way. He doesn't like to
try to get everybody to remember him and feel like, Sir,
he fought for you. He fought for you. Doesn't that
mean something? Don't you understand? Because he's coming up from
some humble origins, he doesn't understand the world that he's in.
I think Will full understands the world he's in, but
that Duncan Roland are a little closer in mentality, Like
Roland's pretty grounded.
Speaker 1: Roland understands he feels more grown up, Like he just
feels more, yeah, just more grounded and grown up. He
just feels like he gets it more. And he's just
like okay, like kind of just like accepting of like, okay, like,
let's yeah, we can try this.
Speaker 2: That's fine, right, hardly like someone that led Robert's rebellion
rebellion and.
Speaker 1: I was waiting for this to come up. I was
waiting for you to make the connections of Game and
Thrones in that way.
Speaker 3: I mean, given that we've already been making these connections.
Speaker 1: I mean Robert was Robert Rathian for sure was, and
his sexy ancestor, Sir Lionel Brathy.
Speaker 3: I figured that dude to be your jam weird.
Speaker 1: He's not weird. He's a hot miss hot, miserable, yep,
he's he's kind of like, he's kind of right, You're
you're right, you're right, you're.
Speaker 2: Right, scuzzy happy, he's he's he's pure.
Speaker 3: Let's just welcome the hedonism and just live in it.
And anyway.
Speaker 2: But I think looking at the characters in this world,
I think Will for sure is very attached to this
idea of the messaging his father put in him. Where
the other two I'm a little more grounded in the world.
I think in terms of like, uh, survival, what is
the most grounded in that? I just want to eat man.
Roland seems to get the world.
Speaker 1: And I am always hungry, y'all all the time.
Speaker 2: Right, always hungry. I just just like good food more times.
Speaker 3: What is like? You know, I wouldn't be opposed to getting.
Speaker 1: Fed and getting some oh for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where he's at. He's got just survival
basic needs, right, Yeah. And Roland is more about his connection.
He cares more about like his connection to England. I
kind of got the subtext from him that he probably
has a wife at home and maybe even kids.
Speaker 1: I kept thinking that was true about his story, and
then kept waiting for that to be mentioned, and then
it didn't, and I was like, did I make that up?
Speaker 3: He talks I think he talks about somebody at home.
Speaker 1: I think he just feels like a dad, y'all right,
I think that's the truth. He feels like a dad.
Do you want to just say a little tiny thing
right here about how this was a movie for me.
So I was eighteen when this movie came out, and
this was a movie where the first time that I
can recall in this moment was that the second most
important female person, well besides the what are they called blacksmith?
Besides the blacksmith, was as a active and as smart
as the lead, the best friend. Yeah, of the.
Speaker 2: Character, Yeah, Christiana. I don't know if they said that
in the movie.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe they did, but I just remember thinking that.
And also that they were both brown women. Yeah, they
look brown to me when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: Once Hawaiian, and like, yeah, it's something else. She sees
an amalgamation. It's a very mixed background. And uh, the
Christiana is Brazilian, so yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so again. And also the way so well,
I know we'll get to her, but also the way
that she presented herself, the way that she reacted to
the world also was very like empowering for an eighteen
year woman. Yeah, and just the way she fucking wrote
everybody off it was incredible anyway, kind of shocking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember where I was going.
Speaker 2: I just I think, yeah, we see Williams kind of
got his head in the clouds a little bit, was
where I was going. Whereas Roland seems really grounded. He's
sure of who he is and what he's doing, what
is trying to survive and live. Rolands figured out like,
this is my profession. I do this for money. If
I can't make money doing this, I'm going home. And
doing something else to make money, whereas what it's like,
I'll take my food right now and fuck you and
pain and I thoughts of pain, and.
Speaker 1: As we're talking about it too, it makes me wonder
if Will also benefits maybe from being the youngest of
the three, like maybe he was looked out for more
by Roland and Watt, and so sometimes when you have
those older siblings looking out for you, it also gives you,
as the younger sibling, more ability to be dreamy, to
be an idealist, because I think that's what I first
wrote in my notes is sort of realist versus idealists.
And how Will is the one who is, you know,
dreamy and the other two just aren't. And I wonder
if that's because they maybe Will can be dreamy because
the other two aren't dreamy. Yeah, yeah, And I hope
that Will appreciates them for that.
Speaker 3: You know what I like about this movie is I
think he does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he does right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because all of us are probably Rolands and
going like stop fucking around, you're welcome. But I think
Well very much does appreciate them for that, And it does,
I think create safety and the ability to experiment in him,
whereas they clearly didn't have that. Roland was the oldest
squire so probably took the brunt of the beatings, but
only when he deserved it.
Speaker 1: Classic Dunk reference.
Speaker 2: Right, But before we dive further into this, take a
quick break.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 2: So we talked about looking at and we kind of
touched on it, but looking at how we see self
determination kind of drive this story when we described that
as a psychological concept that we want to see in clients,
what are we talking about?
Speaker 1: Self actualization? That's part of it, right, resilience, ego I'm
guessing now, I mean, is there a young hand definition
of this word?
Speaker 3: Not that I know.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're better at knowing the academic literal
meanings of some of these are like the academic meanings
of these words instead of how I know them, which
is how they vibe.
Speaker 2: I think the vibe is good enough with this movie,
Like I think this movie is all about vibes and
not about clinical anything. Got tons of vibes, very good
at vibes. But I think self determination, Yeah, all those
things you are saying, like in the Freudian sense of ego, yes,
like the stable connected in the moment sense of self
that's driving this without Oh my god, the three characters
are Idigo and super Ego.
Speaker 1: Oh, they are Idigo and super Ego.
Speaker 3: They sure as are.
Speaker 2: Pop Freud Pop Freud, go ahead no so Inego and super.
Speaker 3: Ego are Freud's basic divisions of the psyche.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it represents the reptilian drive driven sense of
self that wants to eat and.
Speaker 1: Fight and fund and has emotional regulation is.
Speaker 3: Yeah and is aka watt Yes.
Speaker 2: And Ego is like the clear, like defined sense of
self that sits in the middle that can kind of
operate and regulate both sides of things aka.
Speaker 3: Will Where is super Ego.
Speaker 2: Is more or less your sense of conscious adherence to rules,
connection to the larger society at a whole aka Roland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very very true.
Speaker 2: I hadn't realized that until we just now, But that's
one hundred percent what they are.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. And I was thinking the other thing. And
even though we haven't really talked about Chaucer so much
as a character, I feel like we also have a
really good example of someone of like all ego and
somebody who has who will walk naked on the street
because he has lost all of his money. Yeah, so
I feel like it's the opposites. We have two extremes
of this experience.
Speaker 3: Did you say walk he's trudging to trudge?
Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot it was fucking trudging.
Speaker 2: You're right, but your point, your point is, your point,
is point is you know it's.
Speaker 1: I totally get it.
Speaker 2: He defines it for us. But yes, yeah, he is.
He is so firmly grounded in his ego, in knowing
who he is, and he has no shame about it.
He's very, very like in between ego and it, like
he struggles with it, but he just embraces it.
Speaker 3: What Chuster lacks is super ego.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3: He knows who he is.
Speaker 2: He's in the moment, he's doing things, he's doing things
that feel good. He understands the world. But yeah, is
it right or wrong? I don't give a shit. I
think yeah. But understanding self determination is at least, you know,
like we're talking about here. You want to see someone
driven to get from where they are to self actualization
and to feel like that's something they have to do
for them, not for the world, Like I'm going to
do this because it's who I am and what I
need to do for me. That's more or less what
the vibe of it means. I don't think any of
us need to get a dictionary out and invite no. Well,
according to this there nah not necessary. The clinical concept
and use of it is understanding. You want to see
in a client that they have a clear sense of
where they are going and why, as a mark of
psychological health.
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 2: When you look at Will, he really sees a moment,
a glimpse to rise above station. And the only way
he can do it is being so sure and bringing
everybody else along, like, hey, we all got to do
this together, because there ain't no Knight's out here. They
got squires, and if we all play our roles. I'm
the best with sword. I just now I can learn
to joist. I'm not good at it. They're like, have
you ever hit anything? Nope, but we can learn. I
think we see this sense of humility and understanding of
where he is. But also the chance that exists by
this opportunity is never ever wants gonna come again? What
ever is this chance to be a night gonna come
again for him or any of them to be treated
the way Will will treat them which is, yeah, this
is for show, but we're all gonna splut the money.
That deal is never ever going to exist, and all
of them kind of lock into that and that self determination.
Will shows I'm going to rise above my station and
going to change my stars. And I think Will hasn't
gone home like the other ones have for so long
because he hasn't made something of himself yet, and he
wants to show his dad that he did in fact
change his stars instead of stayed in the same place
he was when he left when he was eight. So
that's what I think self determination means when I think
about it.
Speaker 3: Klinic clean with the clients, what about you guys?
Speaker 1: Well, I would also say with Will, what's different about
being cocky, arrogant, egocentric and then not so nice way
we can talk about it versus what we actually say.
See with Will, especially at the onset of the movie,
is when he's like, Hey, can we invest this other
money into getting refitted and resources for me to maybe
become a knight. That's also followed up with a classic
montage of him training like he's getting his ass whooped.
He is really working at it, right. It's not just
I think I can pull it off. Let's go get
me some swag gear, and I'm just going to show
up with this tournament like an asshole and just assume
I can pull it off because I'm the coolest and
I know what's up. So I do also think what
makes him feel more clinically grounded, like if I was
looking at him as a client, is that he is
attaching actions and choices with his aspirations and it's coming
from a place in him as well. Of I think,
if I work hard enough, I can do it, versus
it should be given to me or it should just
come upon me because I'm entitled to it. So I
think that also is a huge component of self determination
when I work with clients. Is like you were saying,
like what are you wanting? Like where you going and
how are you getting there? I think it's also like
where is that coming from as well? Is it coming
from an internal place that it's attached to your choices
and how you live your life, or is it coming
from outside of you? And this maybe magical idea that
if I get the thing, kind of like putting the
horse before the cart. If I get the thing, then
the strengths of that thing will follow versus I will
embody the strengths and the actions, and then the the
reward of it will come.
Speaker 2: Just very much Count Adamar versus William good point.
Speaker 1: Good point. Adamar does think, I mean, the way he
talks about everything, especially Jocelyn, is like I deserve that
and I'm going to get it, which is also why
he struggles with someone like will who it challenges his
idea that if you just really work hard, you can
be as good as me. Fuck you, you know. Self
distorination flies in the face of the I mean, I'm
not going to start talking about the whole inherited wealth
system of England because that's so different from America. It's
like so different. But I can see that challenging too
because for those class instance, it'd be really challenging too,
because for those class systems to exist, it has to
come from this innate belief that I deserve to be
up here and you deserve to be down there, and
those things can't mix in touch. And so the bugaboo
for someone like Adamir is that his name.
Speaker 3: Adam Ar Adamar I assume as Belgian. Maybe I don't know,
is something English?
Speaker 1: Is that not only is Will like coming for him
from like a one v one competitive place. But also
you're undermining this belief system that allows me to act
like a monster, where I take what I want, I pillage,
I probably sexually assault. I do all these things because
I am inherently better and allowed to. Yeah, and so
I got to take you down. You've been weighed, you've
been measured, you have found wanting.
Speaker 3: And apparently Ada maris French. We wie how to tell you?
You've watched you.
Speaker 1: Tell Hannah how to do it because I am French. Yeah,
she is allowed to do it because she is French.
Speaker 2: That is that is very true, and I think it's
you know, it's also one of those sciences that how
do you tell that someone's mileending and watched all that
growing up?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we.
Speaker 1: We how do you how do you say omits or
peppi lapiew? You know? That was also a big cultural touchdown, truly, truly,
when I think about self determination with clients and where
are you and how are you going to get there?
What is that what you said?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Pretty much?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, It really makes me think of the whole
idea that we've talked about in the podcast. A lot
of times, which is meeting and client where they are
versus where we think they should start.
Speaker 3: Which is a big difference.
Speaker 1: Right, It's a big difference, and I feel like it
makes me think about how ever, since i've kind of
not that I haven't always done this, but you know,
I was a baby therapist once. I didn't know what the
fuck I was doing, and so at this time of
being in the field for ten years, it's just something
that makes the therapeutic relationship start from a place of
focus directly on the client versus you need to be
doing all these things because you're having all of these symptoms, right,
and not get allowing them to find something that they
can be determined about and go with that so we
can work on that and then gain momentum towards the
other things that maybe they want in their life too.
So I feel like Will seems very much like he
just has to push through, like I know I can
do it. I have it in me, I have the confidence.
I just have to keep going. And I think that
makes a lot of sense based on what we know
about him, right. So, so yeah, so not anything else
is said about that.
Speaker 2: I think these are all really good points and reads
on Will and what we've got going on here. He's
so clear on what his purpose is and he's got
that like it's almost like you can hear the lyrics
of Hamilton apply to him, like he's not thrown away
his shot. And if Will could write, he'd be writing
like he's running out of time because he is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I totally agree, And.
Speaker 2: I think I'm won't thinking that because my wife and
I saw that like a month ago again and it's
still fucking exquisite. But AnyWho, I feel like there's some
common threads between characters like that who are driven to
riot beyond their station no matter what. And I think
Will is trying to bring others along with him. He's
always got this clear sense of purpose, but unlike Adamar,
he's got a sense of values that we're doing this together.
This is all of us, and everybody that joins forces
with him is an equal footing. None of them make
decisions alone, except for when at the end Will decides
that they're gonna go ahead and go and get arrested,
which even Joscelyn is like, Bro, they can in fact
braveheart your ass. Yeah, and they will because you embarrassed
them by beating them and being from lower station and rising.
Speaker 3: Above where you should have been. That's exactly what they'll do.
Speaker 2: And I feel like Shannon Sassamon carried that energy very well,
like Will, they can and they will break you. They'll
take that pride from you. They'll take that sense of self.
And there's a word that he used that I'm not forgetting.
Speaker 3: Who remember?
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember what he was saying, because I
feel like it's super valuable here and now my brain
is gone.
Speaker 1: But true pride, Yeah, it's about pride. It's it's about
pride and that they can never that's something and Will
says it's something they can never take away.
Speaker 3: From me, and that is false.
Speaker 1: And old girl also doesn't what the fuck she's talking about,
because when she says, when he says, so, you're gonna
live with me in a hovel, and she's like, yes,
I don't care, we'll live with the pigs. I don't care.
And I'm like, girl, you don't know what you're talking about.
I think she does, and she doesn't because you're right
with it. She doesn't know what it's like to be poor,
and I think she does know what it's like to
be humiliated because she's a woman, and that will always
make you somewhat of a disenfranchised citizen of the world. Absolutely,
and even in her position of great wealth, because she's
about to get sold to that monster and she knows that,
and I can and so I can give her some
space there, which is she's maybe doing because we see
her over the movie as a very self actualized person herself.
Speaker 3: Yes, and yeah, she's very princess Leah.
Speaker 1: She's doing that cross. I wonder if she's doing more
of like a risk cost risk benefit analysis with her
self of like would I rather go live with the
pigs than live with a monster who will hurt me
maybe every day for the rest of my life. And
so then maybe there is a part of her that's like,
I might know more than you think, bro, And they say,
if they can't take your pride from you, because I
know what it's like to be a woman in this
world where you get humiliated all the time.
Speaker 2: I think Justin's a great example of being very clear
of what she wants to Like, her ego is very strong,
she's very set. Her character does not change much throughout
the film, but in a good way. She's not like
a delicate little save me flower. She's like, if you
want to beut me, you better earn it. You better
prove to me that you're not a fucking moron jock
scratcher like the rest of these guys. And I because
I don't want that. I know, peasants get to marry
for love, royalty, doesn't he noble don't know.
Speaker 1: How much presents married for love in the way that
she's thinking. But also, I think that's the movie. Well yeah,
I mean she's she says that. Yeah, I know, I
mean she says that, But I mean, like, I think
that's the movie, the romanticy of the movie. Like, of course,
du but this is sparking another idea for me. But
I think before I jump into it, let's take a
break here. So one thing you had brought up that
sparked an idea in me that I wanted to follow
up with is that I do think Will starts to
get pulled into this world right like his his ego,
and I mean that in a more cocky, arrogant, misled
way does start to get a hold of him pretty quickly. Actually,
like when he says, I'm not doing the sword anymore
because basically it's not as street cred as the Jousts.
Speaker 3: Right, and they're like, dude, that's what you're best at.
Speaker 1: And that's how we get fucking money and we eat asshole.
And what you said before about I think he's got
these people in his life, this family that we're gonna
keep talking about, is that is what keeps bringing him
back in these moments when he almost gets caught up
in the bullshit, when he's like, I don't want the
I just wanted Gallence, I don't want to the sword fight,
and then the thing happens with Chaucer where they're like,
we're gonna fucking hurt him, maybe worse if you don't
pay up for him, and then he wins the sword
part of it, right, And so I think he has
these moments where he really does start to get caught
up in the values of this world that he's entering,
this world of knights and uppity bullshitters and people like
what's his name again, Aunt.
Speaker 2: And Awar, yes, Cassie and and or yes, what's his
name Count Adam mar Can?
Speaker 1: I just call him Rufus so well, the actor's name Ruthus, Okay,
he just no, sorry Rufus for you know, aligning you
so crusted with his character. But I think he does
start to get pulled into that world very quickly because
he's still young and impressionable. He's probably nineteen or twenty.
He hasn't had anything that nice in this world, and
so I can also respect, like you, you're thinking of
this as like a pure like sports movie, how you
become like the hot shot. You get caught up in
this life. You're going to banquets, you're talking to hot babes,
You're getting all this attention. It would be so easy
to be seduced by that. And I think the only
thing that keeps him from that happening is his loyalty
and his values when it comes to his family, his companions.
Like I said, he gets pulled back from it when
Chaucer needs him, and I think there's all these other
moments when they just check him, they're like, that's dumb.
And also the moment when he really gets starts to
get too big for his Birches, and Jocelyn says, I
will be with you if you lose, like in that moment.
What she's saying is you need to demonstrate an ego
death to me. If I know that you're really about it,
And an ego death is exactly how it sounds, in
my opinion, which is where you have to really sit
in humility. You have to, And it happens a lot
when I do. I bring up ego death a lot
when I do couples or family therapy, because I think
a lot of the interventions that you do in couples
work especially requires demonstrations of ego death in these minor
ways and these microwaves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to demonstrate vulnerability and willingness to be
fucking wrong when you're wrong or you get nowhere with
your spouse or even just partner.
Speaker 1: We're going to practice an active listening exercise where your
partner is going to share something with you, probably about you,
and your job is to listen, repeat what you're hearing
them say, validate it, and empathize with it. And that
and of itself, is a practice and ego death, like,
you have to get your ego out of the fucking
way for the betterment of the relationship. And that's what
she's asking to do with losing. She's like, you need
to show me that you mean it, because she's probably
seen tons and tons of tons of guys get caught
up in that life if they're not in it already,
and then really switch on maybe not her, but on
women around her or people around her and so. And
he's able to meet her there because I assume he
has these bigger values that he connects to. It's not
just about that for him. That's not why he got
into it. Really, it's not why he kept doing it.
He has people in his life that love him no
matter what, because even when he does that, even though
they have money riding on it, because Chaucer can help himself,
but bet on him. I was waiting for them to
bring up, oh why are you doing this? Why are
you throwing it? Because we have money, and they don't
ever bring it up, which I think is pretty cool.
They don't. They really take everyone's very grounded and like mature,
like they're very like, well, that was our bet. We
fucked up, you know what I mean. So if he's
got to do this, he's got to do it.
Speaker 2: I think they were all encouraging him not to give in,
but then they all gave in at the same time,
which was an interesting moment of groundness because when the
French are like.
Speaker 1: That, popit himself is French.
Speaker 2: And then that's when Roland gave in like, well the
Pope might be French, but Jesus was English.
Speaker 3: You're on you know, he like lost his shit.
Speaker 2: I think they all lost their shit collectively together and
had enough faith in what they were doing as a
team that they were willing to overlook Chaucer being himself
and putting them at peril and going like, yeah, this
is all the money we have, but also, fuck it.
We're in an all or nothing situation anyway, and if
they find us out. You know, we didn't talk about
the juxtaposition that the director cleverly put in this one,
because the director actually did a good job when they're
talking about whether or not to follow this, I don't
know if you guys caught it, but I caught.
Speaker 3: It this time. Maybe not so much in other times.
Speaker 2: The director to its fucking obvious when they're like there
are there's a dude who's hanged and a dude who's
sitting in a cage behind them, when they're talking about
that is nothing, and all three of them or the
other Wat and Roland are looking at that, and Will
has his back to it, and they're like, yeah, bro,
but the turn around, Man, if they catch you, gallows
for us, or they'll put you in those little cages
and just be hanging up there for crow food. This
is the stakes and they know it. So I think
even in those moments, they're like they're coming together in
their acceptance of their existential dread. We're gonna fucking die
if they catch us anyways, and fuck it. But it's
a togetherness, it's a camaraderie, it's a family thing. I
don't think they were just like h Chulser beingley is.
I guess we'll cover the bat now they're all in.
Speaker 1: Well. And also I think that I think you and
I might be talking about two different moments. I was
talking about when Will starts to throw the match, they
don't freak out that they've put a lot of money
on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah, Well I mean that's the
same Yeah, it's the same thing.
Speaker 3: You know, they don't freak out.
Speaker 1: But I don't mean them confronting Chaucer. I mean them
confronting Will, like I could see in a different movie
than being like, will you have to compete because we
have money on the line, Like, it's interesting that they
don't seem to to care about that in that moment
when he's throwing the match, which maybe also could be
I could see with someone like rolling, because I could,
I would feel this way is of course the one
time I make a bet, and that's my karma, you
know what, Jesus, you're right. I'm being punished for being
a sinner because I finally put money down on our
guy and he's just standing there doing nothing. Of course,
of course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel like they that might have ended
up on the cutting room floor. I have a feeling,
and you're right again between the Will and Jocelyn dynamic
of the ego death. Absolutely, she's requesting that because he
came up to her and couldn't replicate the words that
they all shared in a really vulnerable, connected moment where
Will is admitting his like I.
Speaker 3: I don't do this.
Speaker 2: I hit things with sticks, and everyone else is sharing
really grounded, connected, valuable words that Chaucer writes for him
because Will can't write, and then she's like Jos's like, no,
I want to hear poetry. I want you to talk
to me like you wrote to me, and then he
tells her that he's going to win the tournament for her,
which is literally the opposite of what he should have said.
Speaker 1: And I think that's, yeah, that's his ego, that's his
age showing is assuming that that's what she would want,
and even why I think understands that that's not what
someone like her wants in that moment, Like that's not
as romantic as he thinks it is. And also that
is part of like we were saying, him getting distracted
by the pageantry of it all, because that's not him.
That's not him paying attention to her too, because if
he was paying better attention to her, he would understand
that she doesn't really align. She's not impressed by any
of that stuff, especially because she has other nights promising
that shit to her old the time. And exactly how
when she responds to Adamar, she's like, he is winning
these for himself and for no one else, Like the
men who are saying this aren't they're not proving anything. Well,
she's an ego clocker. Like in one of the very
first scenes when they're in the church and the priest
or whoever asked her to for forgiveness or she's like,
I'm gonna kiss your ring and she's like ooh, you're ring.
That was a very good subversive move that made him
so uncomfortable. And I could see me doing something like
that because she's not insulting him, she's giving him a compliment.
Speaker 3: But she's also one h.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was a good job of her clocking.
She's always clock locking the egos of the men around
her and the vanity and the bullshit of all the
men around her, and that it's not really about something
higher morality wise, it's not about like we're talking about
the self actualization. It's all status, ego stuff, objects, whatever.
Speaker 3: And she's very clear what she wants and doesn't.
Speaker 1: And she also knows that she's in that stable with
all these other things, Like she is a status object.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she knows, but she only uses that when she
wants to. I think what Hannah said, what you said
earlier was notable because she's she is very much an
empowered player in this film. She doesn't seem like a
circuit a victim of her circumstance. She's like, yeah, no,
and she does happen to, you know, have a little
melon in her skin. So I can see like her
as a very empowering figure, especially when like they just
the writers just nailed it. The the other priest, I
don't know, maybe they're in France or whatever, like starts
shushing her and not Will and she's like, don't shush
him and spare me.
Speaker 3: I was like, God, damn, she's just like.
Speaker 1: No, I never noticed that part. No, I didn't notice
that part before. And I really love that part when
she was like she kind of like freaks out on
him a little bit, like she's had it. She's fucking
had it and she checks out on him, and I
was like, that's hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think with her seeing that self determination, clear, ego, purpose,
et cetera, she is interested in love, but she is
not interested in these jackasses and being part of their
trophy case. And she makes that super clear that I
will roast you mercilessly so that you stop being interested
in me. I have developed a sense of humor as
a weapon, and I will cut you with it, and
I have no qualms about it if you aren't what
I want. But when she starts realizing that will might be,
she does the whole like give him her favorite thing
that Knights would have been all about, and sends Watt
with a kiss for him, which I assure you a
man would only do if he really loved that other dude.
You know, like that there's no universe, but he Watt
loves him like a brother, and you know, didn't write circumstances.
Speaker 1: And also why it's so literal. I don't think he
could have even conceptualized the fact that, like he could
have said, she brings you a kiss and I didn't
have to actually do it.
Speaker 3: I mean, it wouldn't been funy if he didn't do that.
Speaker 1: I know what you mean, but I feel like that
speaks to how literal lot is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, but I think you know, I'm seeing
her be such a clear sense of self determination and
you know, like the Blacksmith too, I think you see
some really empowered writing of women here and where people
are showing even in a time where none of that
is real, they're still like nah, And it's pretty empowering,
a nice flip of the typical narrative where you're seeing
what a person who's got some self determination. I don't
care what my circumstances are. I'm not doing none of
that shit. And Adam r Is like I entered in
negotiations with her father. We're going to be married, but
only because you wanted her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of a bummer. I mean, it wouldn't
fit in a movie like this, but it would have
been cool to see more of Jocelyn's world, like her
family for sure, Like we don't really know anything. I mean,
similar to the how she's in the movie. You know
what sucks is that she really is just there through
the main character's gaze instead of her having a life
we follow without him. But that's just the movie, you
know what I mean? And totally and I would say,
like I do really appreciate how well written to like
Kate the Blacksmith is because she's not like if it
wasn't for the setup of her being the only female
blacksmith and that's why she grews to work with them
and and why would a blacksmith use their resources up
on these ding dongs? And so I think that was
important as a plot device. But what is cool though
about her is that it's not really used as a
what's the what am I thinking of? Like? And how
there are other movies where like though she's the girl
of the group, you know what I mean, Like when
there's there's not a romantic attachment to her not available. Well,
and it's also just like it's not that very typical
like a girl over here talking about girl stuff like
her being a woman comes up when it would make
sense naturally, like when she's like, you guys can't dance
like you know what I mean, Like where it's more
of her life experience shows up as a woman versus
being like a I guess the token woman. Maybe that's
the word I'm looking for, Like the token woman of
the group who gets misogynistic jokes are anout her or
she is the joke. It is very much she like
fits in with the group and she has her own
self determination where she is good and she's smart, and
she knows she's smart, and she knows she's good. The
literally the only thing holding her back, similar to Will
and Well, similar to Will is a circumstance outside of
their control. For him it's class, and for her it's gender.
And if that wasn't for that, you know, she'd be
fucking killing it as a blacksmith with all her inventive stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, her making the steel lighter and stronger.
Speaker 1: Founding Nike just do it just as she did, you know,
incredible stupid, But I say is so sostly putting that
in there is so the.
Speaker 3: Time Nike paid so much for that. I'm sure, I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure double swish, but no, Like, she's also a character
that isn't played for lass. Like she's very she's taken
very seriously in the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she tests them even like did they
say I wasn't good because I'm a woman? And then
Will clocks that immediately kind of because he's smart too,
and he's like, nope, they said your armor's shite and
your work is garbage or what. Basically, like he kept
it about her because he read from her, Like she
doesn't even give it, Like if they say it's because
she's a woman, she just wants to be a blacksmith
and be seen as a blacksmith. She does not want
to be seen as the woman blacksmith. She wants to
be seen as a blacksmith and in their group, you're right,
she's not the token woman. She reminds them that she's
a woman and has a woman's perspective. But it's never
used as a device or used in a negative lefe
stand context. It's always in ah, you know who's the
expert on this would be me?
Speaker 3: Because duh.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's not too dissimilar from how like
Chaucer is the one they go to when there has
to be something flowery, something written. You know, that's his skills.
So it's like she's used in that component. And I
think she could have very easily been like a man,
you know what I mean, Like, I don't think you
would have changed that much of the script if she
would have been played by a guy, except for how
they come into contact with her initially. And I think
that is very nice to see. I'm not trying to
be grown right now, guys, maybe because it's late on
a Sunday, but I was like, damn, this this movie
was this time when we knew we were progressing culturally
and we have been yanked right now, Well hopefully we're
just in like the death blows, like the extinction burst
freaking assholes right now. Who would call this movie woke
if it came out today? Oh they would, because email
Blacksmith And because this girl has like the main love
of has self actualization. You're so fucking right. And I
was like, I missed when movies like this were like,
well girl power, and that had to be part of
it because that was the culture. You had to have
girl power.
Speaker 2: I mean the number of the neckbeards that love Princess
Leah but wouldn't love Jocelyn. And they're the same in
so many ways, different but also the same. He's a
strong woman who does no time for this bullshit and
doesn't need men. She knows who she is, and she's
gonna if she finds a partner, that's going to be
her partner. Cool.
Speaker 3: I'm into that. I'm a sexual being.
Speaker 2: But also, you ain't getting none of this if your
typical douche had to have no interest and.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, even her finding him.
Speaker 3: At night, that'd be totally woke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even him finding him at night, going to his
tent and then obviously having sex bet him, well whatever,
that was kind of corny. But I was like, that's okay,
that's so cool because there was no connotation about what
that meant from like a slutty perspective. It was just
like there to get down. Because also in rom comes
of that time, they got to get down at one point.
There has to be the kissing scene with the fade
to black, which I as someone who was you know,
I watched forty Days and forty Nights. I was a
Shannon Sausaman rom com of the time Josh Hartnett aficionado,
because I was like fifteen when this movie came out
fourteen fifteen, and you were horned and I was horned.
I was in my you know, peak sexual awakening at
the time, and and it's cool like watching it now
and I was like, Wow, there really is no commentary
about the fact that they slept together in this time period.
I mean, it's totally anachronistic, but it's really dope, Like
it was really dope, how self actualized girl powery she
was in that way too, and it's all this stuff
that's not spoken about, like they're also not being like
a woman and owning her own sexuality.
Speaker 2: It's just happens, and it happened organically like it would.
Speaker 1: Where a different movie would be all all about the
fact that she lost reverted to me, and that would
be the only fucking thing the film. I mean, we
don't even know if she's a virgin. We don't, That's
what I mean. Like, and so I'm glad that you
brought that up, because you're absolutely right, like there is
no there is nothing around that, and just continues to
show that when you don't make it a thing, it's
not a fucking thing. It's just fucking made up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, based on her behavior, I would
say that she was not and like there's too much
confidence in you know, I will maybe, but she no.
And they didn't make that a thing either. It's just like, yeah,
that's what's gonna happen here and the end, and it's
normal and natural and it's not like a major plot device.
Speaker 3: Is just a yeah, they've been building to this and
that's kind of how it goes. That's it.
Speaker 1: And actually what's probably more out of sync with that
behavior for her is the fact that she is a
fancy woman, whereas I feel like there are probably women
lower status, like of Rollins and all of them that
probably were having sex, maybe not that differently then, not
how we have sex nowadays, but you know what I mean,
because there wasn't as much worry about your value to
your prospective husband when you're of her class, where she's
got to be a good girl if she wants to
get the most bang for her buck, or her dad
wants to get the most bang for her buck. When
she gets sold off to her husband, so actually how
she behaves is probably more how maybe Kate would, which
is there probably wasn't more relaxed attitude around sex for
someone of that statues. I'm making this up entirely anecdotally
because it makes me think of In House of the
Dragon Rania and how she kind of has this sort
of energy that Jocelyn has, which is, if I want
to get it, I'm going to get it, and she
takes advantage. I think the same way maybe Jocelyn does,
the fact that she is higher status does shows he
does have a lot of protections around her or get
you know, just naturally because she is wealthy.
Speaker 2: Which is a well traveled trope in films of like
higher class who have been seeking lower classmen or lower
status men to get ravished by.
Speaker 3: But also in this one, she was the one that was.
Speaker 1: He was the pursuer.
Speaker 3: She was the pursuer.
Speaker 1: She was she doesn't even he didn't even go to
the banquet. He was like, I'm gonna go home and
cry in my tents. He just goes home and pounds.
He goes to his.
Speaker 3: Ten and he was hurt. Well, yeah it was fucking hurt.
Speaker 1: He had surgery.
Speaker 3: Girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I also think he's pouting I got okay,
but also he was little. He was also hurt.
Speaker 3: He was pretty hurt. I mean he got he got
hit with I don't know what like.
Speaker 2: Ten lances without being able to defend himself to prove
his love to her, and then she didn't even show. Yeah,
I'm sure he was fucking hurt, Like I mean, what
all the two guys like sitting there going That was
after he lost and won the tournament for her. Yes,
So in that timeline he got hit over and over
and over without even being able to defend himself. He's
fucking hurting.
Speaker 3: He's hurt. Okay, welcome back.
Speaker 2: So I feel like we've kind of covered this self
determination ego et cetera of where we wanted to, and
we're kind of bridging into Chosen Family anyway. So let's
take a quick break here and let's talk about how
do we see Chosen Family represented in this gem of
a film.
Speaker 1: Well, as we were saying, this is a gaggle of outsiders,
you know, I mean, we do see Roland, Watt and
Will start out together. Obviously, they're a little posse that
we've already talked about. They are very sibling asque. They
were raised together pretty much, and they already the dynamic
we've talked about where Will definitely feels like the youngest
of the three, and as the story goes along, they
start to collect outsiders. Kate, we talked about the Blacksmith,
and also Chaucer, who we haven't talked about that much,
even though he's such a big part of the movie.
He's tremendous, tremendous he made. I loved him so much.
I love him so much. He's still alive. I don't
want I sound like it was he's vision, baby, and
his vision is name Yeah, the vision, and yeah, I
think it is a It's a good demonstration of how
when people can find each other, when outsiders can find
each other, and they have the showsen family, how it
does create powerful bonding. As we've talked about it, it
really helps pull Will back in these moments where he
could definitely get high on his own supply and fuck
his shit up and everything could go to hell. I
think it also helped him with his relationship to Joscelyn,
like that humility there where I think that moment where
they're all pulling together their experiences to write that letter
to Joscelyn. I think was such a beautiful, sweet moment
of Chosen Family, how they're all sharing their clutch experiences.
I think it was also a good demonstration of how
Will is the youngest, the littlest of the group, because
he's having his first experience like that and they all
already have stories that are sad that they're giving him.
In that moment, he's getting benefiting from the mentorship, if
you will, of his Chosen family.
Speaker 3: And I think he is and they do.
Speaker 2: They kind of adopt people, and I think the only
one whoever sits slightly on a lower status is Chaucer,
and even that's only for a little while. They seem
like they really bring everybody into like we're all doing
this together, and they find love for each other and empowerment,
and they kind of let each person play the role
that they're best suited for in their party, and they
empower each other. It's never well, I say you do this,
so you do that. No, they let everybody kind of
naturally find their space and they create space and hold
it for each other, which is a kind of powerful
component of Chosen Families, of recognizing like, hey, this person
is the vision person and this person might be the
details person, and this person might be the heart person,
and this is the person you call when you need
to fuck some shit up, And this is the one
who's gonna find us opportunities but also that none of
us would ever get ourselves into willingly, and he's gonna
push us.
Speaker 3: But also he's fucking right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have a really tight bond but an acceptance
for each other, and never do they really use that
against each other unless somebody really kind of needs to
be checked.
Speaker 1: It really makes me think of radical acceptance just in general,
just like radically accepting each other automatically of like okay,
like now you're a part of the group, and now
that you're a part of the group, this is the
role that we're all going to play together. And and
how I know that I work with a bunch of
people that have chosen more chosen family connection then they
have biofamily connection for many different reasons. And I think
this is a really good example of how finding people
who are similar to you and have similar values and
beliefs and all that stuff, that you can really be
seen and heard by other people and choose other family
for yourself, Like that really is an experience that you
can have and how important that can be, especially when
I think about like moving like I've been in Chicago
for I think twelve years, but like moving to a
big city by yourself and trying to in a lot
of times, I think people who moved to Chicago from
a teeny tiny place like me really opens up this
ability like you're around all these different people who have
the same thoughts and beliefs as you do, and how
that may be something you have never experienced before. And
so I think as we're talking about so we're talking
about everybody and kind of their role and Will being
the youngest, I think you guys have a really good
point that he is really being comforted and supported and
like cocooned by there by this chosen family. And also
I think an important element to highlight as well is
that a lot of times people who engage in chosen
family are disenfranchised in some way. That's I think the
way it's most commonly talked about in modern parlance is,
especially with the queer community, a lot of times they
discuss chosen family because unfortunately a lot of people still
when they come out as queer, get disowned from their
family get kicked out, Like the highest number of unhoused
young people are people that have come out to their
families in some way, and so there is a lot
of importance and respect put on chosen family. And I
wonder with Will Roland and want like they kind of
have this sort of similar normalization in terms of your
family isn't necessarily people that you stay with or that
raise you or that take care of you, that you there.
The blood bond isn't as important in their culture too,
because they get sent away for whatever reason, or their
famili's just not around whatever it is. When we meet
all these people in the movie, they aren't with any
blood relatives. The only person that has a family we
hear about is Jocelyn's dad, and we don't even see him.
I don't think. We don't even see any scenes with
them together for sure.
Speaker 3: No, we don't.
Speaker 1: And so there is no actual blood family in this movie.
It's all families who you're with and who looks out
for you, who takes care of you, which I really
like because I'll tell you what, when you work out
with families and children, At least this is my experience,
It does not encourage my belief that blood matters. It
actually has discouraged. So blood matters. Your family is the
same and the people you know, white people who take
care of you, and they look out for you, and
you give a shit about each other. The blood really
doesn't have anything to do with it other than it's
a long held way that family has been organized.
Speaker 2: Well, as we've talked about here, even the quote that
families growing up have loved to misuse. His blood is
thicker than water, But that has not a fucking thing
to do with the blood that is in your veins.
It is the blood that is spilt in battle building
comrades and arms, which is a whole separate kind of bond,
and that is exactly the kind of bond that this
group has. They have blood swat, starved, slaved together, and
they all understand each other on that level. They all
when they saw Chaucer this and of course Paul Bettany's
what six', five so it's like giant naked man just
wandering down the, street they all had empathy for, him
like what are you? Doing and they brought him in
and they closed, Him they fed, in accepted, him even
though he's imperfect and has, problems and he lied a little,
bit but he also was, like uh, yo so, OH
i can make some dope papers that can make this
reality for. You AND i have some knowledge that you
guys kind of, don't so we, can you, know do this.
Thing and they accepted that because they needed. To and
there's like a warmth to that, That, well you can
only be in this family if you're bid by these
rules and married this person as we've arranged for. You
there's a very different energy to this Of i'm going
to accept you and love you and find the good
power you have and let you shine as the light
you are and love you while you do.
Speaker 3: It THAT i feel like makes this movie.
Speaker 1: Special, WELL i think the long and the short of
it is that when you engage in more chosen, FAMILY
i think you just have more flexibility about what family
means and what closeness, means and it is more rooted
in well you guys are talking, about which is values
and character than the fact that we just happen to
share a lot of genetic, components which is a and
WHEN i work with with people that are struggling with their,
family and it can come out in a lot of
honestly like, shame towards themselves of, like why AM i
not closer to my? Siblings why AM i not closer to?
THIS i, go, well here's the. Thing your family is
just a crapshoot in terms of personalities and stuff like.
That so people who just happen to be like best
friends with their, siblings for, example they're just. Lucky it's
not because they're doing something that you're not, doing and
so that's a flaw on your. Part they just are
very lucky and that they vibe like friends with their,
family and that's not true for. Everybody and like you were, Saying,
BEN i think when you have that more flexible, outlook
not just suppose to the chosen family, aspect but also
because of the status, stuff the life, stuff the social economic,
Stuff like you're, right like there's more openness to looking
at other people as people that could be a part
of your group or, not versus judging them because they
do judge him. OBVIOUSLY i, mean how can you not
judge someone covered in shit walking on the. Road, nay,
Kid but they have more curiosity in a way THAT
i think is more common within like chosen Famili it's
kind of like similar like when you watch the show
pose a lot of what poses about his chosen family
and how in that, show when she comes Across blanca
starts to deep cut for post, fans when she comes Across, Darien, Damon,
Damien it's been a while SINCE i watched the Show
The Young dancer in the first, season instead of her judging,
him she's like asking questions about his, life what's he,
doing how's he because she knows what it's like to
be there. WHERE i feel like in this situation, too
when you have relied on chosen, family you, know you
have more empathy and understanding of what it's like to need,
someone to need to be chosen and not just be
able to rely on your family of, origin your blood.
Relations AND i think we also see the powerful impact
too On, chaucer for, example someone who has this interesting
balance of arrogance and. Humility it's like he knows he's really,
smart but he also knows he's kind of fuck, up
and he's bouncing between the. Two and even though he
still does gamble in terms of placing bets On, will
once he really gets locked in to their group and
their chosen, family it does seem to curb his the
intensity of his addictive, behavior AND i wonder if that
says a. LOT i, Mean i'm reading into this movie,
obviously BUT i think that could be true in the
sense that he's got more things that he cares, about
there's more, accountability he is being maybe perceived well for
the first time in a long, time BECAUSE i think
something that's hard with someone who has a history of
addiction is that you wear people, out and you can
get a really bad, reputation even with people that love,
you and so it can start to be, like, fuck
it might as well. Gamble it's the only WAY i,
get you, know positive arousal. Feelings AND i wonder with
someone like him meeting them and them being so inclusive with,
him and then also paying that debt because he fucks
up pretty quickly and then they give him the benefit of.
That that it makes me think of When i've worked
with kids that have been really disenfranchised by their own,
behaviors and when they get the opportunity to be in
the good graces of, someone even after they've seen their,
shit they do have the power sometimes to like really
turn it around because they care about something, more something
bigger than just themselves or their. Shame or. Whatever SO
i do feel like we see the power of chosen,
FAMILY i think the most in a lot of. Ways With, CHAUCER.
Speaker 3: I think those are really his dute. POINTS i think.
Speaker 2: We see his needs getting, met his deep attachment needs getting,
met and then his behavior starts to decrease because he's
not seeking the only available path to get his needs.
Met he's just getting the Met and while that doesn't
stop addictive, behavior which this movie doesn't create a fantasy
that it, does because you see him as soon as
he sees, dice you see.
Speaker 3: Him Paul bettany's acting is so. Good he's, like.
Speaker 2: Looks like he's seeing a big old juicy steak and
he sees the dice and he's, like, oh what game
is that over?
Speaker 3: There because, Uh and he.
Speaker 2: Keeps, walking but you can see like it pained, him
it pained him to not go for. That but as
soon as we see him getting his needs, met getting,
accepted brought, in he has a reason to. Try and
they do accept that about. Him they kind of tolerate
and they don't cast him out for being. Imperfect they
bring him in and might he wear them out if
he keeps up the?
Speaker 3: Behavior? Yeah does he test that.
Speaker 2: Limit he does does what beat his ass a couple of, Times,
sure he, does but ALSO i don't think anybody else
cared enough about him to beat his ass and bring him.
Back and while beating someone's ass is not Something i'm
advocating for within the context of this, movie that Was watt's.
WAY i think recognizing that family accepting each other and
not creating a stafe landing point that we're still gonna
accept you when you fuck, up when you mess something,
up when you do something, wrong when you even threaten
all of us with your, Behavior we're still we're gonna
figure this out together and also going to knock the
shut off because we're gonna hold you accountable for your.
Shit but at the same, time we're not gonna just
cast you. Out AND i think it's a powerful togetherness
message we see.
Speaker 1: Here ABSOLUTELY i feel LIKE i feel like that's exactly
right in terms of How chaucer is a part of the,
group and having somebody who needs some purpose and needs
something to focus on and needs people who will be, like,
hey it's, okay you messed. Up here's some, clothes here's some,
money here's some. Food like having that experience and being
able to be in a place where that's just automatically
offered up to. You is it can be a huge
difference for people and can really make them really have
a moment of clarity where they can decide that they're
going to do something. Different AND i feel like in
that moment when he says it the first time and he's, like,
No i'm not going to do that. Anymore whenever that,
HAPPENS i feel like he really meant, that like he
was really LIKE i really can he do? That, no
because it's not how addiction. Works but it's. Good it's
interesting to see that self, determination like we talked about
in the, beginning of him being able to really sit
in that and be, like this is something THAT i
want to be able to. Do want to be a
part of this group.
Speaker 2: Absolutely AND i think the only other THING i want
to hint on with that is that when you create
that kind of space for, people like you're talking about
both of, you is you see spontaneous moments of growth
and actualization where people really feel themselves and see in
the universe where they. Fit and, man does he see
it when he sees, Like, Oh i'm the HERALD i
need to do the, heralding and then he does it
in a way that is so authentically him and the
crowd loves him for. It Without tosser doing it that,
Way Sir rik Van liechtenstein would not be a. Sensation
he'd just be another jackass on a.
Speaker 1: Horse fun side, Note Sir alrich Von lichtenstein was a
real night from the thirteenth on tree who was known
for being good at jousting and for being A poet's.
Speaker 3: Actually From.
Speaker 1: GELBERLAND i don't think so that place sounded like.
Speaker 3: That i've been. There it's in The.
Speaker 1: Netherlands well, well, well WELL i thought it was fucking
made up as ship and was like these people believe.
Anything maybe, Yeah i'm Lady brittany From Fragle.
Speaker 3: Rock, no, no it had to have been a real.
Speaker 2: Place uh and, YES i felt the same way UNTIL
i went to The netherlands for study. Abroad it was
like seeing its Like, Gelderland Like. Gelderland, yeah oh, shit
it's something to show me a dance From gelberland Because
i'm here for. It but, no it's a it's a
it's a real. Place and the The dutch would have
had a lot more control Over belgium of that time
than they do. Now belgium would have been either non
existent or split Between french And dutch, control and the
northern region closest To england is called The flemish, region
where they speak A dutch dialect Called.
Speaker 3: Flemish so he little history lesson from someone that went.
Speaker 1: THERE i thought you were gonna say flem AND i was,
like that could not be the name of.
Speaker 2: There, No but there's a, lot there's a lot of
ties to real stuff.
Speaker 3: Here that's a fun little.
Speaker 1: Tidbit AND i would say one other THING i want
to mention With, trouscer which may be more fits with
the first, Part but oh, well is like you're saying
with The, heralding he's able to get his purpose met
in a way that's also. Fulfilling LIKE i wonder what
addiction To sometimes we will go towards those pleasure seeking
behaviors when we're feeling a lack of, purpose a lack of,
fulfillment and we're just trying to kind of get it
where we, can, well you, know get it, well it's.
Good and SO i wonder with him, too is him
being able to be in something so fulfilling and also
kind of. Addicting you, know the, crowd the.
Speaker 3: Attention, oh he's clearly loving.
Speaker 1: It he's walking up and down in front of the
air to the, throne you know WHAT i. Mean and
so he also gets a replacement. Addiction his chosen family
also kind of gives him something that's healthier that replaces the.
Addiction he's doing something to be invested, in something to
be excited. By And i'm sure also he gets some
of that high energy arousal stuff too from being around
LIKE i think about the scene Where watt starting to
lose it and he like rips him down in the middle,
area which was very, Funny And i'm, like this is
probably also giving him a bit of the hormonal flooding
that gambling does being around all these. SCALLYWAGS a life of,
crime you, know an addiction is not too far from
each other terms of probably where it lights up in your.
Brain so he gets a little dose of healthy crime
and risk, taking and also the arousal of like the
response and being the first marketer. Influencer and then he
gets the hit of being around people that have goodwill with.
You and SO i can see where all those things
do satisfy him in a way that maybe it wouldn't
happen in real life because addiction is, Crazy like addiction
is a, powerful powerful, thing AND i don't want to undermine.
That AND i could see for someone like, him BECAUSE
i would like to know more about him as, Well
like is he like a gifted kid who's bored so
he becomes so he devolves a gambling. Addiction is that
once he gets fulfilled in all these different, ways the
gambling isn't as, Seductive it isn't as all consuming like we're.
Saying he still gets a kick out of it with
betting On will and getting the others to come into
it with, him but it's not as much of like
a deep hole he will fall in as it was
before when he didn't have anything.
Speaker 3: ELSE i agree with those. Things do you have anything
else we want to say on this?
Speaker 1: TOPIC i don't think.
Speaker 5: So All, Right, well let's take a break here and
we'll get into our self care treatment section for this.
Speaker 3: Episode normally we.
Speaker 2: Cover treatment here and look at the, characters but we
kind of collectively decided in our pre show that this
is such a simple. Movie the good guys, win the
bad guy. Loses they get to monologue at him even
and everybody gets what they.
Speaker 3: Want so.
Speaker 2: Rather than cover the characters that don't need anything really
because they're not complex enough for us to give you
anything real about, this we could make sure.
Speaker 3: Up we could rise it, up just like this movie
does all over the, place but it's a bad.
Speaker 2: Idea we're going to do instead is talk about why
movies like this, exist why we go back to, them
why we watch them over and. Over movies like, THIS
i think in our chat we all realize that this
movie is. Perfect, well why do we think?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: Hannah i'm going to toss it to you BECAUSE i
think you were the first one who kind of threw
that out.
Speaker 3: There this movie is just.
Speaker 1: AWESOME i think a part of it is connected to
how OLD i was WHEN i saw this movie the first,
time so being eighteen and watching something where kind of
the things That i've brought up throughout the episode so,
far SO i really feel LIKE i forgot the.
Speaker 2: QUESTION i just, like why is it that the movies
like this are? Awesome and we kind of they are
good for our mental.
Speaker 1: Health because they really we don't have to think about.
Anything we can sit in a room and just watch
the simple story play. Out it was its. Dynamic the
music is, fun the characters love each. Other it's a
very like comforting film to. Watch AND i think that
a big and being able to really be immersed in
something and be able to not have to think about
all of the real world that we're all living in.
Currently and this is one of those movies where you just,
go you can just, sit you don't have to have
you don't have to be, sobbing you don't have to be.
Upset like it's just a very chill film that shows
love and. Companionship AND i think it AND i think
that's the kind of thing that we're all seeking when
we want to take good care of, ourselves which is
finding something that feels comfortable and good and it also doesn't,
cost you, know two hundred dollars to. DO i would,
say WHAT i want to add to that is something
THAT i NOTICE i observe as a pattern WHEN i
work with people that have trauma, backgrounds is there can
be a almost unconscious re traumatizing by always watching and
reading things that are heavy as. Fuck LIKE i have
so many clients that have had, like for, example domestic,
violence and they'll be, like, YEAH i Watch itania over the,
weekend and that's them telling me how they like had
chill time over the. Weekend i'm, like you gotta be
fucking kidding, me you. Know and SO i do think
there it's important to have a space for entertainment that
is just for entertainment that doesn't have to be BECAUSE i, think,
like and this is my bias showing is THAT i
think sort of the modern equivalent to that right now
is REALITY. Tv AND i don't love that as a
therapist because it involves so much conflicts and beating, Down
like it's a lot of people demoralizing themselves to each.
Other it's a lot of its humiliation and rituals and
fighting and drama and all that kind of, stuff and it's,
boring AND i, think, well it's. Boring that's my bias right,
there especially same. Girl BUT i do think we're missing
currently this pocket of movies or this category of entertainment
which is just like, fun not that, serious not that deep,
movies you, Know like we don't really make rom coms
in the theaters like we used. To AND i think
that's a component of. This and even THOUGH i do
love AND ii of The Seven, kingdoms that's a good
example OF i think where culture has gone in terms
of like prestige prestige television and prestige, movies where everything
has to be so deadly, serious so rooted in, reality
so violent and, GOD i sound like a friggin door
right now saying the, violence which violence. Is BUT i, mean,
like we we have introduced so much grounded quote unquote
psychology into movies and TO tv shows now, too and
stories will also get, dragged, like for, EXAMPLE i really
like the New Wathering heights. ADAPTATION a lot of people
hated it because they thought of it all four times
in the, Theater yeah you. Did because they thought it
was too, shallow pretty much like too, Superficial like it
didn't have all the depth and drudgery of the, book
Which i'm fine with BECAUSE i forget hate that book
AND i read it last year or like two years,
ago so this is a new take for. Me and
also there's a bajillion adaptations Of Wuthering, Heights so go
watch a sadder one or realer one if you want.
To like it'd be different if that was the only
adaptation of this piece of. Work and you can have
a lot of feelings about that BECAUSE i understand that
as someone who reads a lot of. Books BUT i
think with, this this is a good example of, like
if you want the harder core version of, it you
can find the harder core version of. It but if
you want like a lighter version that just helps you
enjoy yourself and you don't have to get your blood pressure.
Spiking this stuff does have a place AND i AND
i don't know if it's also LIKE i don't, know, intellectualism,
misogyny all this stuff that kind of has made these
movies not as prevalent, nowadays but it is important to
have things to watch for the love of the, game
like for the fun of a, movie BECAUSE i just
love going to the, movies AND i have a very
low bar for movies to pass for me to enjoy.
Them AND i think there is so much space for
mes that are just fun and good and they don't
have to BE i don't have to be looking into
the abyss into the psyche of the human, mind which
is ironic considering this podcasts.
Speaker 3: We're saying, that but and what we do as a, Profession, yeah.
Speaker 1: BUT i think because we other a, PROFESSION i don't
need to be doing. THAT i don't think anyone should
be doing that all the.
Speaker 2: Time can you please explain that more like the number
of TIMES i have to tell that to people in
my life or even my.
Speaker 3: Spouse, Sorry, SWEEDIE i love.
Speaker 2: You is, like there's a lot of times Where i'll
watch a show and she'll be really into her like
all my friends also that's, good And i'll watch it
for five minutes be, Like, nope this is, work this is,
work this is. Work i'm NOT i Can't and she's,
like you never want to watch anything like it needs
to be in a galaxy far far, away or about
a man who dresses like a, bat or about a
dude who got bit by right, now just, something take
me somewhere away THAT i don't have to be connected
to an in steranity.
Speaker 3: ABYSS i, DON'T i don't want. IT i live. THERE
i don't need it When i'm taking a.
Speaker 1: Break AND i feel Like Wuthering heights is such a
good example because it's so. Atmospheric the music is very
the music is done By CHARLIE. Xcx it is glorious
in this, film but it's so WHAT i the reason
WHY i THINK i saw it four times in movie.
Theaters besides the fact That i'm a straight up maniac
sometimes is THAT i didn't have to think about a
fucking thing WHEN i was watching that. MOVIE i could
just go, in listen to this beautiful, music this beautiful,
set and all the really beautiful, colors and it reminds
me a lot of A Night's, tale LIKE i like
A Night's sale because the music is, fun it's. Dynamic
the people in the FILM i either like or care
for or think, about but not too. Hard AND i
definitely used to be and maybe sometimes still. DO i
try really hard not to. Anymore do What brittany, described
it was definitely a person who've experienced a lot of
trauma but wasn't able to really have awareness of. That
AND i would watch all of these just gut wrenching
things over and over. Again no, Less yeah you sure.
Speaker 3: Did YEAH i.
Speaker 1: DID i MEAN i, laugh not because you've had, trauma so,
NO i, KNOW i mean just for the. LISTENING i
laugh because the amount of Times i'm, like, Oh, hannah
what are you up to? Today And you're, like, Oh
i'm just like watching a movie And i'm like what
movie and you're, like you tell me a. MOVIE i
can't even think of an, example Like moonlight or. Something,
yeah that's a good. Example i'm, like what the fuck
that's how you relax is watching something that made me
cry so hard THAT i almost had a panic attack
AND i had to pause my television multiple. Times and
THEN i THINK i texted you immediately, AFTER i, SAID
i can't talk about this movie for at least a
month Because i'm going to get too. Upset, Yep and
you watch it. CASUALLY i was watching it casually at that.
Time that is very true and so AND i think
that that's a part OF i don't know if it's
a part of connecting to another part of yourself when
you're watching those traumatic, things or like seeing if you
can get through it or get past it or whatever the.
Fuck i'm not really sure what it. Is but we
definitely needs something that just feels. Nice it just feels,
good and isn't something where the chaoticness of the way
that they're telling the story is so overwhelming that you
have to pay attention so fucking, hard versus something that's
just fun to, watch Like Indiana jones movies and Fucking
Wuthering heights and just like different movies that you can
really sit in for the hour and a half or
two hours that it is instead of having to think
about all of the worry that's out in the world
right now and all the different ways that we're having
to protect ourselves in different ways than we've ever had to.
Before and there's just so many different experiences like. That
so WHEN i talk about self care with, CLIENTS i
talk a lot about it has to be if it can,
be it should be something that either makes you feel,
calm makes you feel more like, yourself or something that
you can laugh. At and if it's not those, things
then it's not really self. Care And i'm not one
of those people who define self care AS i paid
one thousand dollars to get all of the blood sucked
out of my body and put back in or whatever the.
Fuck i'm talking about things that you exactly. Like i'm
talking about things that really help you feel more grounded
almost and really finding those. Things and it is, hard
don't get me. WRONG i talk to clients all the
time about how everybody talks about self. Care it's this,
big fancy topic and nobody, says nobody helps you find
what works for. You because it is a different it's
going to be different it's going to be different for
you than it is for. Me like SOMETIMES i color
and watch something and that's very. Nice SOMETIMES i sew
and watch stuff LIKE i have to be doing more
than one thing at once so that my brain doesn't
get slipped. Out AND i think it's a good example
of Why Abbot elementary has gotten so popular and everyone's
Like Abbit, elementary like it's this blip miracle, show And i'm, like,
yeah because it's a new version of what we used
to have all the, time which is a, sitcom but
not a, stupid like laugh tracky sitcom like, this just
like a good, old like all feel, good thirty minute
funny story that there is some depth and you care
about the. Characters but it's not. Heavy and that's not
a brand new. Idea it's a revisiting of an old.
Idea It's parks and Rec it's The. Office it's like
all these things that we've liked that we've kind of
gotten away, from either because we've replaced with REALITY tv
or WHAT i call dad, dramas which is breaking bad
shit like THAT hbo precige, television WHICH i love all
a lot of that. Shit LIKE i don't like DAD.
Tv AS i call, it because that's WHERE i feel Like.
Speaker 3: I'm sons Of. Anarchy, HONESTLY i try to watch.
Speaker 1: This i've tried to Watch songs Of anarchy because Of
Charlie hunnam horned so many times AND i. CAN i
think the last TIME i made it all the way
through season, one and that was hard BECAUSE i gotta
be real and come at, me bro if you, want
but the. Listener BUT i find those shows. Boring that's
why when people Now i'm just want to rate right,
now it's when people are Like house of The dragons,
Boring i'm, like it's always the same people who Say
house The dragons boring are the same people that watch
all Of Breaking, bad all of The, ozarks all of
these shows Where i'm, like you thought that was more
exciting Than house of The, dragon where there are dragons
and political drama and like intrigue and spy stuff and
da da da. Dah but you like to look at
a bunch of whatever looking people who look like my
neighbors talk at each other for sixty minutes a. Week
don't missing with, that you? Know BUT i will, say
what's actually funny about what you? Said? Ben ABOUT i
don't like watching shows WHERE i feel LIKE i have to.
WORK i do think that's how REALITY tv makes me
feel WHEN i watch, Things like When i've seen clips
of things Like Temptation island Or Love island or any
of those, SHOWS i can't watch. Them and it's not
even me being like a pretentious, asshole BECAUSE i can't
hate watching them, Either LIKE i get LIKE i feel
LIKE i can feel in my, bodies like my shoulders
are goring to go up to my ears just thinking about.
It AND i think that's BECAUSE i start thinking about
them as people too, much And i'm, like this is,
humiliating that's horrible to look. At oh my, god that's really.
Mean LIKE i start thinking about them as people too,
much and ALSO i start thinking this show is so
bad for, Them like how are they gonna be after
they leave the? Show what is the producer? Saying the
mind is LIKE i get too caught up in them as,
humans and how horrible for your mental health it must
be to be in one of those. Settings and we
know it is because there's people who've like killed themselves
after being on REALITY tv. Shows and if you want
to watch something of this show Called unreal that was On.
Lifetime that's a scripted show about a producer on A
bacheorette like. Show and that show's really good and it
talks about all this. Stuff actually it's very affirming to,
watch AND i think that's what's so, interesting and that's
WHY i can't watch those. Shows so this actually ties
a connection for, Me ben THAT i can use later
on people ask me about REALITY, Tv i'll be like
those so feels like. Work LIKE i get sad WHEN
i watch those. Shows my brain doesn't turn. OFF i
feel like it's a part of my brain that spikes
AND i can't, relax like my whole body clenches.
Speaker 3: Up, nope can't do.
Speaker 1: IT i feel exactly the same, way LIKE i don't
need to watch people yell at each. OTHER i grew
up with people yelling at each. OTHER i don't need
to fucking watch people be mad at each other for
what could be a totally made up reason by the,
Producer Like i'm, Not i'm just not interested in. That
it's not. Fun you knowwhere? ELSE i can't watch shit with.
THERAPISTS i won't do it. Anymore Besides Dr, warna my
main GIRL a couple therapy AND i still haven't AND
i still haven't watched. IT i think so like, maybe
BUT i can't watch anything where therapist is, bad because
in most, media therapists are bad And i'm sick of
it AND i get so upset about it THAT i
can't like. Shrinking everybody's, like, oh shrinking is so, good
blah blah. Blah it might, be but you know, WHAT
i got three minutes into the first, EPISODE i was,
like fuck this, Asshole i'm over. It I'M i, CAN'T
i can't do, it AND i won't do.
Speaker 2: It it's, understandable AND i think WHERE i feel like
we're missing movies like this in media like this one
is at no point do you really feel Like will's
not gonna make?
Speaker 1: It? Oh that's WHAT i love about Reading rams books sometimes,
too As i'm, like no matter what HAPs to these two,
rascals they're gonna get together at the, end and it's, comforting,
Right they're gonna bang and they're gonna oh and.
Speaker 2: They're gonna, believe and all of us are, like you,
KNOW i just want someone to like me for, me
LIKE i want to kind of win AND i kind
of like to get laid AFTER i. Win in celebration
of my win by someone who genuinely likes me for.
Me why is this hard for people to?
Speaker 1: Understand that's such a good point, though like the comfort
of a happy, ending like a guaranteed happy, ending so.
Speaker 3: She, Said.
Speaker 1: And you, know, however you, whatever what you mean is
such A. Yeah it is WHY i like reading Like
Allie hazelwood and books like, that which are also popcorn.
Books if you want to make that, connection IS i
intersperse them with the heavier BOOKS i read for that
exact reason that it's nice to read something WHERE i
don't have to worry about what's gonna. Happen, REALLY i
can just get caught up in it BECAUSE i know
it's gonna be a safe. Landing and you're right with
like movies like, this there can be some suspense with
are they gonna get the? Girl is their friend gonna
be mad at? Them? Whatever but like WHEN i was
Watching nine Of Seven, KINGDOMS i was legit, like who's gonna?
Die when are they gonna? Die like stressed. Out even
watching this movie when he wears the, VISOR i was,
like oh my, God like it's making me think of
the inside of advisor more like how it actually feels
to be a night because that episode nine of The
Seven kingdoms From, inside which stressed OUT i Think i've
ever been WATCHING tv that And welcome To, Dairy, Yeah
welcome To. Darry's and that's you're, Right, LIKE i. Don't
i'm enjoying how good the story, is BUT i don't
know how MUCH i enjoy HOW i feel watching those,
Things LIKE i think During welcome To, DAY i was
LIKE i almost couldn't take, It LIKE i, think, well
hand ON i watched, together there was a moment WHERE
i was, LIKE I i'm reaching my threshold and that's
become what a lot OF tv. Is so you're, right
like the promise of the premise of a happy ending
is really.
Speaker 2: Nice it, is and a story where you know a
person takes a chance and it pays off in a huge.
Speaker 3: Way we, haven't you.
Speaker 2: KNOW i talked About Prince edward, much but someone seeing
him that the speech he. Gives IF i knew nothing
else about, you your men loving you would be.
Speaker 3: Enough AND i KNOW i said that the wrong.
Speaker 2: Order so for anybody that's gonna bust me on, THAT
i know he starts with your men love, YOU i,
know but to be seen just for that That william
is like the heart of this, group and that even
when he's been put in the, stocks Which roland warned
his ass the whole movie was.
Speaker 3: Gonna happen to.
Speaker 2: Him when that, happens they're still standing next to him
with a, club ready to fight the entire crowd that
wants to throw, vegetables and they're getting vegetables thrown at them,
Too and it's in that moment when he gets, knighted you,
know like in real, life that's not the way that
shit would have.
Speaker 3: Gone that would have gone.
Speaker 1: Bad, well, yeah watch That eye Of Seven kingdoms if
you want to see how that probably would really.
Speaker 3: Go or we're in a brave.
Speaker 1: Heart yeah for, Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's how it would have, gone but maybe not quite that,
bad but somewhere in that. Camp BUT i think looking
at what they did with this, movie it always stayed
within your window of.
Speaker 3: Tolerance it raised.
Speaker 2: Your blood pressure a little bit for good and bad,
reasons but it kept it in the happy. Camp and
they and they let you know right, away we're not
taking ourselves too. Seriously and if that's what you were looking,
for you're in the wrong. Place because they started out
with Fucking queen and it was. Amazing and in the dance,
scene they worked their way through like some kind of
like loot music Into Bowie.
Speaker 1: HI i love that scene AND i love how it
slowly turns into, them just like dancing at a. Club,
yeah but you're, right like it sets a tone right
away of like this is the, movie take it or
leave it, Right let's have.
Speaker 3: Fun let's have. Fun that's the whole point of it.
Speaker 2: Is we're here to have two hours of time where
we forget about our life and just enjoy a. Story
AND i think we don't give ourselves that enough because
we're in this golden era OF tv ever SINCE i
don't know the, Sopranos like everything has to be this
cultural and emotional impact and the betrayals and getting drawn
into the, story and you have to know the backstory
of the characters and the whole story to know. It
you can't just go to a fucking movie with a
date or a group of friends where everybody has a
different taste and everybody finds something they.
Speaker 3: Like my wife likes this.
Speaker 2: MOVIE i could not get her to watch a fucking
thing with knights in it IF i paid.
Speaker 3: Her and.
Speaker 2: Because this movie just fits in that exact pocket that
you could take a date to it and they'd be
happy who that date, was no matter who you, were
because there's, fun there's beautiful, people there's beautiful, colors there's dope,
music like there's an easy. Story it just takes you.
Away AND i feel like that's a degree of self.
CARE i don't care what creates that for. You But,
hannah you said, it like find the. Thing it doesn't
matter what it. Is it makes you, laugh makes you,
forget makes you feel like, you makes you. Happy, however
you said that was, Beautiful like it's it's. That this
movie is.
Speaker 3: That LIKE i think you know my wife AND i
are a year. APART i, WAS i was.
Speaker 2: Sixteen this movie takes me back to a time BEFORE
i realized the world was on fucking. Fire and it's just,
months but, remembering like there's a before and and after
time probably Was september eleventh AND covid for.
Speaker 3: MILLENNIALS i can't think of.
Speaker 2: Anything maybe The Big, short but like there's a before
and after with like moments of like life changed after,
that this was before all that this and maybe it
was just BECAUSE i was, sixteen but can go back
into time and like disappear into, this and my wife
can do the same, thing like she goes back to
the time when, like hey He's, ledger.
Speaker 3: Here's the it guy of the. Time He ledgers hout of.
SHIT i get, it, OKAY i loved.
Speaker 1: HIM i loved him so.
Speaker 2: Much and then you, know like you See Shannon saws
Of mine and go, like what's the. Problem there's no,
Problem she's not getting kicked out of bed free and.
Crackers there's no problem. Here everybody's. Happy there's something you
want to look, at there's SOMETHING i want to look.
At there's, fighting but there's, humor there's, heart there's, connection there's,
romance there's, silliness there's.
Speaker 3: Love in all. Forms like this movie is perfect for.
Speaker 2: That AND i think finding popcorn movies that just don't
take themselves too fucking serious can create a nice space
to be in where we can just be happy for
two hours and not think about the next fucking crazy
leader of the world who's trying to light shit on.
Speaker 1: Fire, well BECAUSE i feel like we kind of did
final thoughts in this proportion of, it and everyone knows
WHAT i feel about, IT i wonder if instead could
we go around and does anyone have any like recommendations
of other popcorn movies that they really like that we
could recommend to people to. Watch because one that popped
in my, head which is the more recent, one Is
The Nice guys With Ryan gosling And Russell, crowe and
that one didn't do very well in, theaters but now
it's kind of having a. RESURGENCE i keep seeing clips
of it. ONLINE i don't know if it's Cause Ryan
gosling is in the zeitgeist more again with Like barbie and,
stuff but that's a movie THAT i think was really
in that mid time where there wasn't anything like, it
and that's a fun you, know shoot him, up Leathal
wepony kind of funny period piece that's just like there
to have a good, Time barb And star go To
visa Del. Mar that is one that is a movie
that is just fucking stupid and funny and silly and
the and it's so fucking stupid and it is but
LIKE i, AM i saw. It there's a deal for
it on am on right. Now i'm probably gonna bui
ex it, suck and it was it came up and
like as soon AS i saw it that it was,
on SO i was, like oh my, GOD i love
that fucking movie because that movie is so fun to
just watch and you're just dragged into this time that
we don't really know what the time. Is you don't
really know what what you're walking, into but it is
so much. Fun and so that's a movie THAT i
would recommend to.
Speaker 2: People we almost watched that one last, night and almost
we came, close and then like the singing was like
neither of us were like in a spot for like
the singing kind of moments of, it the very Very.
Speaker 3: Broadway you have.
Speaker 1: To think of it like An Austin powers. Movie TRULY
i get. It we truly you. Do and the singing
isn't as much as it they make it seem like it. Is, Sure,
also that was just that that.
Speaker 2: Moment i'm not against you, know LIKE i go To
broadway shows, regularly you, know Like i'm here for. It
my wife is a harder cell on That i'm. Not
but the we ended up deciding On Game, night AND
i don't know if you guys have seen, that BUT
i feel like there's movies like that Like Game. Night
AND i actually Used Horrible bosses in a session where
UH i realized that in.
Speaker 3: All of our.
Speaker 2: Heads there's a motherfucker that knows the. Truth and sometimes
that motherfucker sounds like Motherfucker. Jones It's Jamie fox telling
you the. Truth it's Motherfucker. Jones but like these movies
like that were you just like walk in and you're just,
like this is some stupid, shit but like you're here
for it to be stupid. SHIT i feel like those
two are great. Examples and The goonies Always The goonies is.
Speaker 1: Good Lisa frankenstein is these are. Ones another movie that
didn't do woll in theaters BECAUSE i don't think we
think about movies as just silly. Anymore that's maybe that
came out in like twenty twenty four and Bombed Diablo cody.
Movies so it's got that kind of. Humor but that's
another good one that's just like true silly. Bonkers it's
about a girl in the eighties who you, Know. Frankenstein you,
know it's a rip off Of.
Speaker 2: Frankenstein finding that kind of, space like find whatever movie
it is that creates that for. You we're just like
we had talked about, movies we were considering, them and
then me and my buddy talked about. THEM i was, like,
OH i brought up like what is. It what's a
type of movie we've never? Done, like, man we've never
done a straight action, movie like all we should do
The Rock and you two are.
Speaker 3: Like is that a dad? MOVIE i was, like, yes,
yeah yes it.
Speaker 2: Is and then me and my buddy talked about it
and we are, like, dude how good would it? Feel
just like sit and watch this stupid ass movie Where
Sean connery goes like you're a breshed, losers go home
and whine about their best, winners go home and fuck
the prom, queen And Nick cage turns to him as
this fucking like science learned the f Like carla was
the prom. Queen it's it's fucking. Brilliant it's so. Dumb
it's so. Dumb there's so but those. Movies you just watch,
it like fuck, It we're going on an. Adventure like
in that, Movie Sean connery is Basically James bond who's
been locked up in like a black site prison for
years and they go get him to go rescue prisoners
that a ROGUE Us marine general took at Fucking alcatraz
and locked them.
Speaker 3: In it's.
Speaker 2: Crazy it's there's you just if you think about it too,
much it falls.
Speaker 3: Apart but like that or Con air Or Face, off Like.
Speaker 1: National, Treasure Nationally good popcorn movie that's right down the
middle popcorn, movie any of.
Speaker 2: Those you watch those and you're, like none of this
makes sense when you think about. It but the ride was,
fun like we were missing that and so many things
like The marvel movies Or Star wars movies or things
that could be fun but have so much momentous pressure
on them to be. More we're missing. That AND i
feel like you just got a good list of some.
Things just go watch and have, fun and that's. It
there's nothing. More that's.
Speaker 1: It everybody go to the. Movies, yes, PLEASE i love the. Movies,
well on that, note we'll wrap up, here right because
we all love this. Movie nothing more to say about.
Speaker 3: That you have been, Waged.
Speaker 1: I've been, measured and you've been found. Wanting oh, Wow
i'm So i'm genuinely shocked THAT i said the right
thing at the right. Time, Yes and on that, note,
yeah we'll wrap it up. Here as. Always you can
find us On instagram And, facebook a pop or And.
Psychology you can email us at poporinpsychology at gmail dot.
Com you can always leave us rating and reviews where
you listen to. Podcasts it's the best way for new
listeners to find. Us AND i really appreciate and all
the comments people leave On. Spotify now On spotify you
can leave comments on podcast episodes That i've been reading
them and that's really fun to. READ i JUST i.
Speaker 3: Wish we could we appreciate, you.
Speaker 1: Yeah AND i WISH i could reply to them. Myself
because one woman did write or one person did write
underneath Our Bridget jones episode that they also relate To
bridget too, much and they were, like don't, Worry, BRITTANY
i feel you on. That so shout out to that
person if you're listening right. NOW i saw your comment
AND i appreciate. It so. Yeah and if you want
to support us monetarily and you have the disposable income
because it's kind of hard to come by, nowadays then
you can be A patreon. Patron you can find the
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shirts there's, mugs there's a lot of stuff on. There
so thank you all for, listening comment and let us
know what your favorite popcorn movie is and we'll see
at the. Movies you, Know, Heart Play, Heart what does she?
Say heartbreak feels good, Placebok sure the fuck. Does by
nine