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Speaker 7: You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking
Speaker 7: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 7: written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every
Speaker 7: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 7: infamous killers in true crime history True Murder with your
Speaker 7: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good evening.
Speaker 5: Leonard Lake was greatly influenced by a book titled The Collector,
Speaker 5: where a man abducts a woman to keep forever as
Speaker 5: a sex slave. The book was fictional, but when Leonard
Speaker 5: Lake met Charles, they discussed abducting, enslaving and torturing women.
Speaker 5: They called their plan Operation Miranda. Matthew Roswally is the
Speaker 5: director of The Miranda Murders Lost Tapes of Leonard Lake
Speaker 5: and Charles Zing. His film depicts the horrible acts committed
Speaker 5: in northern California in the mid eighties, caught on film
Speaker 5: by the notorious killers themselves and recreated in an accurate
Speaker 5: linear fashion. Matthew is a writer, director, and actor from
Speaker 5: Los Angeles, California, and the film that we are featuring
Speaker 5: this evening is The Miranda Murders The Lost Tapes of
Speaker 5: Leonard Lake and Charles Zing, with my special guest, actor,
Speaker 5: director and writer Matthew Rossville. Welcome to the program, and
Speaker 5: thank you very much for a greet's interview. Matthew Rossveille,
Speaker 5: Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 8: Good to hear from you.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much. I hope I have pronounced your
Speaker 5: name correctly. I've been known to not do that.
Speaker 8: It's all good. My name is spelled weird, but the
Speaker 8: pronunciation is rose Valley. But thank you.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well now I know I won't do it again.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much. Should have asked. Now it's Matthew
Speaker 5: rose Valleys. Let's talk about your background that and why
Speaker 5: you were compelled to make this The Miranda Murders.
Speaker 8: Well, to give you some background about me, I am
Speaker 8: an actor from New York City that became a filmmaker
Speaker 8: and I moved to Hollywood and I hooked up with
Speaker 8: my producer who pitched me the idea of creating this film,
Speaker 8: which is a story that has not been told yet,
Speaker 8: and I felt like it was a story that needed
Speaker 8: to be told. So I agreed to it. And we
Speaker 8: spend some time traveling across the country in visiting various locations,
Speaker 8: specifically Willseyville, which is where the murders happened, and writing
Speaker 8: the project.
Speaker 5: Now, we just spoke off air about the actual tapes themselves.
Speaker 5: Tell us if you and your partner who actually viewed
Speaker 5: these tapes.
Speaker 8: Yes, my producer is really good at what he does,
Speaker 8: and he was able to get his hands on the
Speaker 8: original footage.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 8: Initially a lot of our original research. We watched the
Speaker 8: footage on YouTube, which is about, if I had to guess,
Speaker 8: about five minutes. We read the book Die for Me,
Speaker 8: which is a very detailed book on you know, the
Speaker 8: the murders themselves and what actually happened up there in
Speaker 8: northern California, and he was to get a hold of
Speaker 8: the rest of the footage, and we watched it and
Speaker 8: wanted to recreate it. That was the point of the film,
Speaker 8: to be able to recreate things that happened to these people, because,
Speaker 8: like I said, it's a story that has not been told.
Speaker 8: It's disappointing to know that these people have been forgotten.
Speaker 8: So we wanted to remember them by sharing what happened.
Speaker 5: You mentioned Die for Me by Don Lassiter, and that's
Speaker 5: been a best seller, and he was on the program
Speaker 5: right in the very beginning of True Murder back eight
Speaker 5: years ago. And yeah, and it's very familiar tru crime fans,
Speaker 5: the hardcore of tru crime fans know of this case.
Speaker 5: And these are amazing rather lack of word for a
Speaker 5: duo of killers. Certainly what story has not what story
Speaker 5: has not been told for those people that have read
Speaker 5: all this What story has not been told that you
Speaker 5: are prepared to tell in this film.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm referring to the medium of film, especially when
Speaker 8: it comes to true crime. You get people know about
Speaker 8: John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. People
Speaker 8: don't know about what happened to these these victims in
Speaker 8: northern California of Leonard Bake and Charles Ringing and specifically
Speaker 8: with like I said, the media film. We wanted to
Speaker 8: express it because we wanted to show that these uh,
Speaker 8: these people are are not forgotten.
Speaker 5: Now you sorry, go ahead, Oh no, no, it's fine.
Speaker 8: I was just I was just gonna say, this is
Speaker 8: my medium. I mean, I mean, obviously the book is
Speaker 8: very in depth. It's book, but not everybody feeds anymore.
Speaker 8: I feel these days people tend to find entertainment through
Speaker 8: YouTube and the Internet, and we felt the need to
Speaker 8: express what happened on film. So that's what we did.
Speaker 8: We recreated the footage. We saw the film and decided,
Speaker 8: let's make a movie that is as accurate and as
Speaker 8: real as possible.
Speaker 5: And not to give too much away because this movie
Speaker 5: debut is October thirteenth. Tell Us also where this debut
Speaker 5: is very very interesting as well, tell us what the
Speaker 5: premiere date is, and tell us where people might find
Speaker 5: this once they listen to this interview and are compelled
Speaker 5: to check it out.
Speaker 8: Certainly, it's going to release on Amazon Crime and Amazon
Speaker 8: it's in video, so you can rent or buy it,
Speaker 8: or if you have Amazon Prime, you can streaming. And
Speaker 8: that's the way of new media. I mean, it's super
Speaker 8: interesting because I was. I was an avid DVD collector
Speaker 8: back in the day. I'm sure many of you people
Speaker 8: are watching might have been still even BHS collectors. I
Speaker 8: was too. Yeah, as a filmmaker, you know, we decided
Speaker 8: to go with the new media, which is streaming. That's
Speaker 8: what we do.
Speaker 5: Now. Without giving anything away because I know that you
Speaker 5: said you did sign a contract not just to leak
Speaker 5: certain information. Of course that's understandable, but what other than
Speaker 5: the tapes themselves and what they depict, And again we
Speaker 5: won't go into every bit, but we know that this
Speaker 5: involves torture in something incredibly vile from these two gentlemen.
Speaker 5: So what is it? What's the bigger story though? That
Speaker 5: someone would take away from watching this other than just
Speaker 5: a reenactment redepiction of the violence that is contained specifically
Speaker 5: on those tapes. In reality, you know, there.
Speaker 8: Are horrible people out there, and at the end of
Speaker 8: the day, I am a big fan of the horror
Speaker 8: genre and I wanted to express how real life horror
Speaker 8: is a true thing and you need to watch every
Speaker 8: move you make. Sometimes not to say I want to
Speaker 8: create a mass paranoia, but I think it's important to
Speaker 8: be able to know what you're doing and know who
Speaker 8: you're talking to, and have the foresight to be able
Speaker 8: to kick out when you're talking to somebody who is dangerous.
Speaker 8: So that's really the point of the film, to honor
Speaker 8: the people who passed away, warm people that this is
Speaker 8: still a problem. There are still people out there life
Speaker 8: letter like in Charles Lank and it just so happens.
Speaker 8: These two killers have not been talked about very often
Speaker 8: in film.
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah, tell us about some of the sources that
Speaker 5: you use to research this story. You mentioned Don Lassiter's
Speaker 5: Die for Me. What are some of the other information,
Speaker 5: other than viewing the tapes themselves that you use for
Speaker 5: your sources of material? Oh?
Speaker 8: Well, there was definitely, Like I said, Die for Me
Speaker 8: is a very very good and accurate book. I of
Speaker 8: course read the Collector. Sure, the footage Belt has been
Speaker 8: very helpful. And on top of that, there were a
Speaker 8: few documentaries about the subjecked I believe you can even
Speaker 8: watch them on Gosh dare I say YouTube. I I'm
Speaker 8: actually looking it up right now. So it's fun. The
Speaker 8: boat yard, it's a very very accurate documentary, gives you,
Speaker 8: you know, enough information to to get to know these people.
Speaker 8: But I mean as many sources as possible. We also
Speaker 8: read transcripts from the four cases. I mean, as you know,
Speaker 8: King was in court for a very very long time. Yeah,
Speaker 8: he was able to keep keep his case going so
Speaker 8: long that it costs to California twenty million dollars the time,
Speaker 8: is the most expensive trial in the state of the
Speaker 8: in the you know, in the state since oj Yeah.
Speaker 8: So a lot of legal documents and interviews and documentaries
Speaker 8: that I could find. And of course there's also some
Speaker 8: people who have reached out, as I've been wrote in
Speaker 8: the film, apparently we've communicated with some people who actually
Speaker 8: lived in the area at the time. Wow, which is
Speaker 8: a breathtaking to me.
Speaker 5: Now for those that don't know, and we've alluded to
Speaker 5: and we spoke about it, but just briefly tell us
Speaker 5: I have a copy of The Collector as well, because
Speaker 5: it's it's not only Leonard Lake and Charles Ing that
Speaker 5: looked to this book for inspiration, and so I was
Speaker 5: curious and it is. It is a fascinating book and
Speaker 5: a very it's a very good book. Incredible how we
Speaker 5: could take it to another level after reading that. But
Speaker 5: for those that don't know about this, briefly about the
Speaker 5: Collector connection to Leonard Lake and and so hence the
Speaker 5: also the title of the Miranda Murders and as I mentioned,
Speaker 5: their plan, their project, the Miranda Operation.
Speaker 8: Miranda Well. Leonard Lake got inspiration from reading the book
Speaker 8: written by John Fowls in nineteen sixty three, and the
Speaker 8: book is about a butterfly collector who fell in love
Speaker 8: with a woman and kidnapped her and put her in
Speaker 8: the bunker in his I want to say, basement and
Speaker 8: did not want to rape or he wanted to convince
Speaker 8: her that he was worth loving and through this essentially
Speaker 8: Stockholm syndrome, she didn't necessarily fall in that she actually
Speaker 8: died in the book, but he got he was so
Speaker 8: attracted to the romance of holding a woman to the
Speaker 8: point that she would fall in love with him that
Speaker 8: he wanted to make it a reality. So he built
Speaker 8: a bunker in the side of a cliff, which is
Speaker 8: where he lived in the middle of the mountains in
Speaker 8: Wilseyville and kept his women there. And the girl in
Speaker 8: the book is named Miranda, so he called his project
Speaker 8: the Miranda Project, which is where the title the Miranda
Speaker 8: Murders comes from. In fact, if you look at the
Speaker 8: credits of the film, which you can see at a
Speaker 8: Shockfess Horror Factory dot com, I believe we have well
Speaker 8: I want to say about fifteen credits that are all Miranda,
Speaker 8: because that's you know, how many unnamed women he was
Speaker 8: able to keep in his bunker.
Speaker 5: What was the experience like? This sounds not like a
Speaker 5: great question, but what again, what does it What was
Speaker 5: it really like watching those tapes. You're a filmmaker, you're
Speaker 5: obviously some a person that knows is true crime business,
Speaker 5: and you know the intersection, it seems between true crime
Speaker 5: and true horror. It would seem what was it like
Speaker 5: watching these tapes?
Speaker 8: I mean, it's tragic to see that these are the
Speaker 8: last moments of these human beings that it moved me.
Speaker 8: And what I had to do was I felt the
Speaker 8: need to express their pain so that people can arm
Speaker 8: themselves with the power and the knowledge that there are
Speaker 8: these people that are at charming who can do horrible
Speaker 8: things to you. It was a sad and I have
Speaker 8: to admit I have a morbid curiosity, so I found
Speaker 8: it interesting Personally. I think some people don't have the
Speaker 8: same sentimentality, but sure, ultimately it was very upsetting.
Speaker 5: Now with this, what were the victims? How many victims
Speaker 5: and what was the range of age of these victims
Speaker 5: that are depicted.
Speaker 8: Leonard Lake is known to have what is called the
Speaker 8: I want to say it's the confession. It's a vey
Speaker 8: of him sitting in his armchair where he admits that
Speaker 8: he finds women attractive as young as the age of twelve,
Speaker 8: but usually about twenty one to I want to say
Speaker 8: twenty five. He liked the younger women, usually smaller sized women,
Speaker 8: and when the police came to the bunker in Wilseyville,
Speaker 8: they found about enough bone fragments to determine it was
Speaker 8: up to twenty five victims and it wasn't just women
Speaker 8: that he killed. That actually brings up a really interesting topic.
Speaker 8: Leonard Lake and Charles Ing were kind of pioneers in
Speaker 8: the field of identity theft because the way they were
Speaker 8: able to avoid the police so long is they found
Speaker 8: individuals who looked like them. Specifically Leonard Lake Charles Ling
Speaker 8: was more under the radar, and they would kill them
Speaker 8: and steal their identity and steal their their their driver's
Speaker 8: license and for ten to be then Charlie Gunner was
Speaker 8: I believe was his best man. Let me just check
Speaker 8: my facts on that one, but yes, that's right. I
Speaker 8: believe he pretended to be Charlie Gunner and he killed
Speaker 8: him and stole his ID.
Speaker 5: You talk about actually going to the crime scene itself,
Speaker 5: sierraed to that of Foothills, So tell us, just as
Speaker 5: you do, where exactly this is, and then tell us
Speaker 5: about that experience and what you saw.
Speaker 8: Well, me and my producers rove to Wilseyville, which was
Speaker 8: I want to say, two or three hours away from
Speaker 8: San Francisco, and we're both located in southern California, so
Speaker 8: it was a bit of a drive to get up
Speaker 8: there in the first place, and driving there was very eerie.
Speaker 8: You got the fee because because the population is very small.
Speaker 8: We drove around the neighborhood, which was in the middle
Speaker 8: of the mountains, very sparse, maybe a couple hundred people
Speaker 8: at most, and you got the feeling people are there
Speaker 8: to disappear because they don't want to be seen or
Speaker 8: be known. So it's a very good place for a
Speaker 8: serial killer to take a victim. And we actually drove
Speaker 8: down gosh is it a or to say, Blue Mountain Road,
Speaker 8: the road where they lived. We drove all the way
Speaker 8: down to their their property and it's not there anymore.
Speaker 8: But it's it's a very precarious road. It's it's a
Speaker 8: it's not a too it's not like a two way street.
Speaker 8: It's not like the way you would picture a freeway.
Speaker 8: It's a dirt road in the middle of the hills
Speaker 8: in a very mountainy area. And you know, you're about
Speaker 8: like a few inches away from the side of a cliff.
Speaker 8: And when I say a cliff, I mean it's literally dirt.
Speaker 8: A bad thunderstorm would probably destroy the road. So it
Speaker 8: was very ominous Spookie, And yeah, it was very intimidating,
Speaker 8: but one there was important. We needed to experience what
Speaker 8: it's like to be there. In order to tell the story,
Speaker 8: because we had to.
Speaker 5: Know in those tapes and in your depiction in this movie,
Speaker 5: as you say, this is an accurate depiction, holding nothing
Speaker 5: back obviously. Yes, I know you can't give too much away,
Speaker 5: and you don't want to give too much away, except
Speaker 5: you have a trailer for this movie as well as well.
Speaker 5: But if you can give us a sense of the
Speaker 5: psychological the slave contract, these written rules, what exactly will
Speaker 5: you be depicting. If you could give us a sense
Speaker 5: of that.
Speaker 8: You're talking about a style of filmmaking, which is something
Speaker 8: I would be very happy to share. Very early on
Speaker 8: in the process, I decided I wanted to make a
Speaker 8: movie that was similar in style to Texas Chainsaw Masker
Speaker 8: in the Blair Witch Project, where there was practically, if
Speaker 8: not zero gore. I did not want to make a
Speaker 8: bloody movie. I wanted to make a psychological movie based
Speaker 8: off of what real serial killers would probably put on film,
Speaker 8: and they probably wouldn't put on themselves, stabbing people. And
Speaker 8: you know, we've heard about snuff movies before, where it's
Speaker 8: a people torturing people on film. That's not what I
Speaker 8: wanted to make. I wanted to make something that was
Speaker 8: then legitimately trying to psychologically change another human being, and
Speaker 8: that's what we depicted our film. The rules that Leonard
Speaker 8: Dick and Charles Ing put in the bunker, which was
Speaker 8: the place that they kept their victims, was designed to
Speaker 8: condition these women to become subservient to them. It was
Speaker 8: don't look me in the eye, i will always keep
Speaker 8: my lips parted, I'll always keep my bed meat, and
Speaker 8: it was a basic guideline for the perfect slave that
Speaker 8: they envisioned. That's that's pretty much what you see in
Speaker 8: the film. We're trying created something that was based off
Speaker 8: of reality and based off the footage we saw, which
Speaker 8: was pretty, like I said, pretty shocking. It's frustratingly and
Speaker 8: surprisingly accurate.
Speaker 5: You also, in the trailer, the one trailer that I've seen,
Speaker 5: you have included it seems the relationship between Leonard Lake
Speaker 5: and Charles Ying. We see we know them as a
Speaker 5: couple that got together to do this, maybe one person
Speaker 5: dominant the other. But is there something in that trailer
Speaker 5: that concerns the relationship that you are depicting in this
Speaker 5: film as well.
Speaker 8: I'm very glad to bring that up because a big
Speaker 8: thing about the film is through exposition, and through subtle
Speaker 8: encounters between the two, you get to know what those
Speaker 8: two characters personalities were, what these two people were, and
Speaker 8: on the surface, Leonard Lake was a domineering master but
Speaker 8: Charles Ing, played by my producer Joe Clavaria, was frequently
Speaker 8: more of the mastermind. He was behind the camera, and
Speaker 8: he knew that it being behind the cameras oppose you
Speaker 8: want in front of the camera, that it would be
Speaker 8: less incriminating for him, and he played this role of submissive,
Speaker 8: even though that's not necessarily exactly who he was. But
Speaker 8: you get to know how tricky these two people really were,
Speaker 8: and you're gonna be surprised by watching the film what
Speaker 8: their personalities really are. And this is also expressed through
Speaker 8: Leonard Lake's wife, her ex wife, Carolyn Blast, who was
Speaker 8: actually really active with the murders and she actually ended
Speaker 8: up getting a pardon by complying with the police. But
Speaker 8: in the film it's explored a little further just how
Speaker 8: active she really was, which, according to the research that
Speaker 8: we took, was pretty active. She's just as guilty, if
Speaker 8: not more so, than you know Leonard Link and Charles Zang,
Speaker 8: and yet she's walking the streets today.
Speaker 5: Else does this movie have to say? I mean, you've
Speaker 5: talked about this cautionary tale and obviously you want the
Speaker 5: story to be told period, But is there something else,
Speaker 5: a bigger sort of sense from the relationship the times
Speaker 5: and the evil that these people perpetrated. Is there something
Speaker 5: else that has to be said or is said in
Speaker 5: this film?
Speaker 8: You know, the film, I have to admit, is dark,
Speaker 8: and the topic is very dark, and the subject is
Speaker 8: very means perioded. But my philosophy is you need to
Speaker 8: take that information and you need to grow from it.
Speaker 8: How do you arm yourself with the fact that the
Speaker 8: world was dark and make the world better? So I
Speaker 8: guess that's really the takeaway. And on top of it,
Speaker 8: like I said, I'm a horror guy at the end
Speaker 8: of the day, and because I want to scare you
Speaker 8: a little bit, so it be afraid but be inspired.
Speaker 5: Now, who tell us, so we talk about you being
Speaker 5: the writer, tell us about the credits for this movie period.
Speaker 8: I'm actually not the only writer. I co wrote it
Speaker 8: with my producer Gil Claveria, who was the one who
Speaker 8: pitched me the idea of the film. He was a
Speaker 8: film festival director of a Shockfest film festival, in Hollywood
Speaker 8: for about ten years, and I worked for him for
Speaker 8: about two and we got hooked up because I'm like
Speaker 8: I said, I'm an actor. And he asked me to
Speaker 8: perform for him at in Santa Barbara for his musical
Speaker 8: that he wrote and his wife's erected Alicia Claveria, And
Speaker 8: we spent some time in Vegas, which is where he
Speaker 8: has a condo, and we did a lot of our
Speaker 8: writing and he pulled up a picture of these two
Speaker 8: killers and said, do you think we can create this movie?
Speaker 8: So man, and I said yes. So we went to
Speaker 8: Vegas and wrote the film and me and him, so
Speaker 8: he actually plays Charles Ving. I played Leonard Blake. We
Speaker 8: wrote the film together. Let's see, we had some very
Speaker 8: good actors. And I have to give a lot of
Speaker 8: credit to Gil. He's a very good producer because he
Speaker 8: convinced all of these actresses to play these real life victims,
Speaker 8: which I feel like a lot of filmmakers are not
Speaker 8: capable of doing. They're not capable of convincing actress to
Speaker 8: play something so real.
Speaker 5: Sure, but he did it.
Speaker 8: We got let me see, let me name drop a
Speaker 8: few people, uh, Sarah Barrett and heel seem to Guil
Speaker 8: and uh Tema Saul and Joe Black, Alan Bernhoff who
Speaker 8: performed in the Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde musical, Johanna
Speaker 8: Ray God. I could just go off and I could
Speaker 8: just read the whole credits. But I'm very impressed with
Speaker 8: everybody who worked on this film. They were they were
Speaker 8: all very very professional, and they really cared. And I
Speaker 8: have to give so much props to Gil because he
Speaker 8: was able to inspire them to believe in my vision
Speaker 8: for a good movie and we were able to work
Speaker 8: together as a team.
Speaker 5: How long did the movie take from writing to post
Speaker 5: production to be ready?
Speaker 8: I have to admit post production took a little longer
Speaker 8: than I would have liked, but I mean that's the
Speaker 8: case with any independent film. It's very difficult to you know,
Speaker 8: once you're done shooting, I mean, once you're you have
Speaker 8: to edit the film and you got to do special
Speaker 8: effects and sound editing. And let's see, how long did
Speaker 8: it take? It took a I want to say it
Speaker 8: took a good half a year to make this film
Speaker 8: from the conception to the completion. Maybe a little longer
Speaker 8: because part of it was also I was doing production
Speaker 8: and other work with my producer Guild, and that includes
Speaker 8: our web series which is a travel show about called
Speaker 8: ponder Bouts by the Way, which where we visit hard locations,
Speaker 8: and we also work on a documentary at Standing Rock
Speaker 8: where we filmed the protests at the time. So yeah,
Speaker 8: I'd say it took a little long a half a year.
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Speaker 5: role in this movie and you said that you have
Speaker 5: the role of Leonard Lake, so, obviously, as an actor,
Speaker 5: an incredible role, a very interesting role, to say the least.
Speaker 5: How did you prepare for this role? I know we
Speaker 5: talked about the research that you would have to do,
Speaker 5: but how extensive did you go into his actual life
Speaker 5: in preparation for this How essential was it to know
Speaker 5: everything about the official record of Leonard Lake, everything about
Speaker 5: his past? How important was that to inform you with
Speaker 5: this role?
Speaker 8: For this role, I'm a method actorate in the end
Speaker 8: of the day, so it's very important for me to
Speaker 8: know the background of the character and know who he
Speaker 8: is as in depth as possible. But after a while,
Speaker 8: I mean the thing is, I did so much research
Speaker 8: to help to co write the film that I felt,
Speaker 8: I know, I knew the man and I knew the
Speaker 8: way he thought. And after a while I started to
Speaker 8: take some method steps. For example, I listened to the
Speaker 8: song and this is gonna sound very weird because the
Speaker 8: song is not from the perspective of Killer that I
Speaker 8: listened heavily to the song not Your Slave by Oengo
Speaker 8: Boingo because I felt Leonard Lake, in his mind was
Speaker 8: justified and romantic at the end of the day. So
Speaker 8: after I got to know the horrors of who he was,
Speaker 8: I started to live it temporarily and pretend to be
Speaker 8: that romantic and that's what gave me the inspiration to
Speaker 8: be that person. I also have to admit as a kid,
Speaker 8: I mean I was bullied, so you know I tapped
Speaker 8: into that, and you know, it tap into things that
Speaker 8: you've experienced in your own life, and you go out
Speaker 8: of your way to get to know the person. How
Speaker 8: much Howlso like playing villains, by the way, I played
Speaker 8: villains all the time. I played dad people on film
Speaker 8: on stage frequently, so it's pretty natural for me to
Speaker 8: be somebody like that.
Speaker 5: Was a little bit of his character that you brought
Speaker 5: to the screen. What was Leonard Lake thought of himself
Speaker 5: as one of these off the grid sort of an outlaw,
Speaker 5: a pot dealer, and again of a sort of a
Speaker 5: guy anti government sort of. Is that the way he
Speaker 5: saw himself? Was this part of it?
Speaker 8: Well, yes, I mean that's who he was, But I
Speaker 8: think he saw himself somebody who was misunderstood, and as
Speaker 8: horrible as that sounds, as a human being, I don't
Speaker 8: condone his actions, but as an actor, I tried to
Speaker 8: connect with the guy and the way I was able
Speaker 8: to connect with him was He's a misunderstood individual and
Speaker 8: that's the way I played it, and that's what you're
Speaker 8: probably gonna see on screen.
Speaker 5: Well, that's what I meant by that question. Did he
Speaker 5: It almost seems like he thought of himself as all
Speaker 5: of this, I'm outside the lawn, I'm off the grid,
Speaker 5: and then he saw his torture chamber as just a
Speaker 5: part of his individuality, it seemed. And once he got
Speaker 5: Charles Ing.
Speaker 8: And he saw Charles ng as practically a family member.
Speaker 8: I mean the Actually there is a film called House
Speaker 8: on the Edge of the Park that for mind to
Speaker 8: me heavily of relationship between Leonard Lake and Charles Ing,
Speaker 8: which is between these two killers who kidnap these people
Speaker 8: at a party and they act very similarly to the
Speaker 8: way that I feel like Leonard Lake and Charleston get.
Speaker 8: And it stars David Hess who passed away years ago,
Speaker 8: and he's very familiar with playing killer because he also
Speaker 8: played a killer in The Last House on the Left,
Speaker 8: which is a West Crave era set. Gosh, I want
Speaker 8: to say Wes Craven produced it, and whoever directed Friday
Speaker 8: at thirteenth I love him, by the way. But yeah,
Speaker 8: it's that there is humanity in evil people, and if
Speaker 8: you want to play an evil character as an actor,
Speaker 8: you need to be able to connect with that mad
Speaker 8: and be comfortable with the fact they're playing somebody who
Speaker 8: was a horrible person. So that's what I did.
Speaker 5: What was the somewhat redeeming aspects of Leonard Lake's character.
Speaker 8: That's a tough question because he was a very detached
Speaker 8: human being and he was not a very good human being.
Speaker 8: But if I were to pick out the positives, he
Speaker 8: was very charming. He he was creative, and I mean
Speaker 8: he was able to Yeah, I know I know that's
Speaker 8: that's just getting a little dark. But he was able
Speaker 8: to build a bunker in the side of a mountain
Speaker 8: next to his house and his honest property, and police
Speaker 8: had to dig it up. You don't want her to
Speaker 8: find it. So he was resourceful. And I guess, I
Speaker 8: guess that's about it. I I honestly don't like him
Speaker 8: as a person, but yeah, he was very resourceful. That's
Speaker 8: probably what I would say.
Speaker 5: How far do the tapes go? I think I ventured
Speaker 5: into this question and didn't go quite through it. How
Speaker 5: far do they go in these tapes? Considering that there's
Speaker 5: the abduction, there's the torture, there's a psychological torture, and
Speaker 5: then there's murders. How far and what? How? What? To
Speaker 5: what extent do they go in the tapes? And and
Speaker 5: and to what extent do you depict in your movie?
Speaker 5: We m.
Speaker 8: We go in Charles ng drew some he's an artist,
Speaker 8: by the way, he threw some incriminating sketches of himself,
Speaker 8: even cooking a baby. Yeah, and we don't show like
Speaker 8: morbid aspects of cooking a baby, but we do depict
Speaker 8: that a baby is put in a pops That's probably
Speaker 8: the darkest thing. We do.
Speaker 5: Quite dark.
Speaker 8: We it's very dark. But the big thing I wanted
Speaker 8: to try to emphasize was psychological horror. Yeah, what he's
Speaker 8: going to create suspense and is going to build the
Speaker 8: suspense And how can we tell a story without stabbing
Speaker 8: anybody or shooting anybody or cutting anybody up? And we
Speaker 8: show all the way up to that. Wait for those
Speaker 8: that about twenty of our victims.
Speaker 5: For those that may I don't know, pre judge this
Speaker 5: by you say this is not a gore fest.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, there's absolutely no blood. We had no special
Speaker 8: effects artist who did blood.
Speaker 5: Wow for the for an audience that has read Dye
Speaker 5: for me, yeah, yes, no, I'm not. Hey, listen, this
Speaker 5: audience devours books on cas is there's one book or
Speaker 5: there's four books. Some people are truly more wrapped up
Speaker 5: than I.
Speaker 8: Pardon me, but what I personally like about true crime
Speaker 8: as a genre is the suspense of cap dancing on
Speaker 8: the uncanny, dally the abnormal, what is inappropriate but not quite.
Speaker 8: You know, I'm not interested personally in a gore fest.
Speaker 8: I'm not interested in seeing somebody get stabbed and you know,
Speaker 8: blood everywhere. I'm more interested in seeing the steps up
Speaker 8: to that, and how do I prevent that from happening
Speaker 8: to me and the people I care about? So I
Speaker 8: tried to take that approach with my film.
Speaker 5: With this film, we talked about the relationship between Leonard
Speaker 5: Lake and Charles ing how prominent is their interaction in
Speaker 5: this I mean, obviously their partners.
Speaker 8: Cute, but it's actudy. Also, I have to admit, you know,
Speaker 8: I'm an off Broadway actor and something I'm interested in
Speaker 8: is the humanity behind horrible people. Who are they? And
Speaker 8: we do get to know their relationship, and as we've
Speaker 8: talked about earlier, there was a lot of research that
Speaker 8: went into getting to know who they were and how
Speaker 8: they interacted. For example, one of the pieces of direction
Speaker 8: I gave my producer about playing Charles Ang was he
Speaker 8: had what we called behind the scenes kabookie masks. He
Speaker 8: would put out a mask in order to play a role,
Speaker 8: in order to blend in with society, and depending on
Speaker 8: the group of people he surrounded himself with, he put
Speaker 8: on a differ kaboogie mask. With Leonard Lake, he played
Speaker 8: a submissive role, even though he was actually a lot smarter,
Speaker 8: a lot more resourceful with his coworkers, he also played
Speaker 8: a submissive role, but he tried to blend in with
Speaker 8: his family. He was a lot more loving, friendly and
Speaker 8: you know, unassuming.
Speaker 5: And when.
Speaker 8: Leonard Lake was he he was a nihilist. He he
Speaker 8: had big ego, but he just didn't care and he
Speaker 8: didn't believe that he was going to get in trouble,
Speaker 8: so he would take steps in what he did to
Speaker 8: you know, avoid getting in trouble. But having that ego
Speaker 8: really protected him for almost two years.
Speaker 5: In this movie, is there any depiction of the meeting
Speaker 5: and of the first meeting between In and Lake, or
Speaker 5: the beginnings of that relationship, or an explanation on how
Speaker 5: they could have both got on the subject of the
Speaker 5: same how they could have had two psychopaths could have met.
Speaker 8: The film is shot like a found footage movie. It's
Speaker 8: meant to recreate actual footage and as a result, the
Speaker 8: very first piece of actual footage in the film is
Speaker 8: the first tape of them acting like a normal family
Speaker 8: before the murders. But when it comes to the way
Speaker 8: they met in the first place, no, it doesn't dress that.
Speaker 8: The beginning of the film does start off documentary style,
Speaker 8: but I mean, if you're asking about the way they met.
Speaker 8: They met through a magazine because they're both ex Marines,
Speaker 8: and like reached out and actually then met a lot
Speaker 8: of his victims, even through magazine ads and newspaper ads.
Speaker 8: But no, the film does not depict that particular aspect
Speaker 8: of the way he connected with people. It shows more
Speaker 8: the footage that he shot.
Speaker 5: So it never what I'm asking, is there any way Again,
Speaker 5: I'm just curious what the film will show. Is there
Speaker 5: any depiction of that relationship. I mean, obviously we do
Speaker 5: see the relationship, but I just thought there might be
Speaker 5: some indication in those original tape of how they got
Speaker 5: to be again interested in the same thing. I don't know.
Speaker 5: To me, it's always fascinating how somebody broaches the subject
Speaker 5: like this with anyone without someone then later running to
Speaker 5: the police.
Speaker 8: It depicts their relationship and it really goes in depth
Speaker 8: with how they interacted with each other, what they meant
Speaker 8: to each other, and what their relationship was, but it
Speaker 8: doesn't specifically address the exact moment that Leonard Lake reach
Speaker 8: out to Charles.
Speaker 5: Maybe you can tell us a little bit and walk
Speaker 5: us through some of the production process.
Speaker 8: Very interesting, Oh yeah, certainly, I mean, like I said,
Speaker 8: we traveled to Wilsonville. Very early on, me and my
Speaker 8: producer Gil spent time in Vegas writing. We actually spent
Speaker 8: about two weeks in Vegas status condo, just thro own
Speaker 8: ideas out, working from twelve to sixteen hours a day.
Speaker 8: And I mean, that's my life, that's what makes me
Speaker 8: happy writing. And when it comes to the actual production,
Speaker 8: I had to become the part. So I gained a
Speaker 8: lot of weight and I tried to model myself, but
Speaker 8: when Nard Lake looked and I dyed my head. And
Speaker 8: actually Guil did a very similar transformation. He's usually a
Speaker 8: very rugged looking individual, but you know he did the
Speaker 8: bowl cut and he lost some weight and shaved, and
Speaker 8: you know, we really wanted to transform into these individuals.
Speaker 8: And actually, if you'd like some photos, I'd be happy
Speaker 8: to send you some. I don't know, I assume it's
Speaker 8: going to be on a website. I'm happy to share
Speaker 8: them with you. But we had to hire actors to
Speaker 8: play real Victor. We had to hire people to play
Speaker 8: Harvey and Debor Dubs and Lottie Bond, and you know,
Speaker 8: we had to find people who fit the parts, and
Speaker 8: we did as it so happens, Like I said, Gil
Speaker 8: Brana Festival, so he knew a lot of actors. I've
Speaker 8: been a director in Hollywood for a couple of years,
Speaker 8: and I knew some actors and they all happen to
Speaker 8: be people that fit the bill. We shot a lot
Speaker 8: of the Wilseyville footage. I mean the exteriors we shot
Speaker 8: at Willseyville. We actually shot footage at location, but the
Speaker 8: interior of the cabin we shot in Big Bear in
Speaker 8: northern California, even shot from stuff in burd Bay, Los Angeles.
Speaker 8: And our art director Merlvo Ramos, Wow, she was amazing.
Speaker 8: She there was a if you look at the original footage,
Speaker 8: which you can see on YouTube, or at least five
Speaker 8: minutes of it, there's a blanket that like had she
Speaker 8: made it, you know, sewed it, handmade it from scratch,
Speaker 8: because we tried to find it and we couldn't find it.
Speaker 8: And it's something that I recall having as a kid,
Speaker 8: because you know, it was just a popular quote pattern
Speaker 8: in I guess the late eighties or mid eighties. But
Speaker 8: we couldn't find it. So she just said I'll make
Speaker 8: it and she did.
Speaker 5: You talk you talk about the impressive actors or cast
Speaker 5: of actors that you've assembled for this. Normally they just
Speaker 5: love the writing. If they love the writing, they're on board,
Speaker 5: or if they loved the direction, something along the more lines,
Speaker 5: but more so the story and obviously the roles. But
Speaker 5: this is a little bit different, and you have a
Speaker 5: you have a different approach with this. You're trying to
Speaker 5: do something a little bit different here. How did these actors,
Speaker 5: these established actors feel about the subject matter? Did they
Speaker 5: have any response? Specifically?
Speaker 8: The thing is to make a film, especially an independent film,
Speaker 8: they have to be inspired. And that's why I had
Speaker 8: such a great producer. That's why Gil is so inspiring me,
Speaker 8: because he was able to find a cast that actively
Speaker 8: wanted to play these roles. It's not just about finding
Speaker 8: people who are willing to play roles, it's about showing
Speaker 8: them that this movie is important, The story is important
Speaker 8: and then needs to be told and you get the
Speaker 8: opportunity to play these real people. So I have chalk
Speaker 8: that up to my producer. He just he's an inspiring man.
Speaker 5: Tell us a little bit more about the premiere and
Speaker 5: also just what the reaction has been so far. I
Speaker 5: guess obviously you've you're very, very happy with this, but
Speaker 5: there's been any anybody at all that you preview this with.
Speaker 5: As there's been any reaction, tell us what you or
Speaker 5: what you anticipate as a reaction once this is released.
Speaker 8: Oh, certainly. We had many test gratings and people walked
Speaker 8: out because it was just that upsetting to them the
Speaker 8: subject matter. But if you're a true crime fan and
Speaker 8: you want to know more about real life serial killers
Speaker 8: and you want to know about the true stories that
Speaker 8: have happened in reality of people violent hitting other people,
Speaker 8: this is going to be right up your ally. Because
Speaker 8: we were very active in telling something that was accurate.
Speaker 8: We had test screenings in Vegas, we had test screenings
Speaker 8: in Santa Barbara, California, Los Angeles, California. The release of
Speaker 8: the film is as we talked about, October thirteenth. It's
Speaker 8: going to be an Amazon Crime Amazon Instant video, and
Speaker 8: it is probably the least sensationalized through crime film. And
Speaker 8: when I say that, I think it's Henry Portrait of
Speaker 8: the Serial Killer and Texas Chainsaw I'm Asker, and Silence
Speaker 8: of the Lands. Those are Hollywood films. They're story oriented.
Speaker 8: This is story oriented, but it's designed to tell a true,
Speaker 8: actual story that actually happened. So if you want to
Speaker 8: see something that is based off of reality that hicks
Speaker 8: reality and showcases true horror, this is the movie to watch.
Speaker 5: And certainly that's the anticsist of Hollywood. It's certainly true
Speaker 5: stories based on true stories or anything like that. It's
Speaker 5: totally not true stories. So very encouraging that I'm excited
Speaker 5: to see us.
Speaker 8: I'm glad to hear it. And you know, I would
Speaker 8: love to talk about Hollywood. I mean, it's a huge conversation,
Speaker 8: but I mean that's never Hollywood's motivation. Of Hollywood's motivation
Speaker 8: is demographics, and motivation is to tell something real. So
Speaker 8: I if you want to see something real, this is.
Speaker 5: It certainly true horror. It was it encouraging in these
Speaker 5: tests viewings that even though there's no bloodshed, there's no gore,
Speaker 5: that these people were still shocked and walked out.
Speaker 8: What's the question.
Speaker 5: Was it encouraging to a certain extent to have that
Speaker 5: much shock value without any blood being spilled.
Speaker 8: Yes, that tells me that the storytelling is affected. Right,
Speaker 8: it's not meant to be a fun movie. It's meant
Speaker 8: to be well. I guess if that's your mentality, maybe,
Speaker 8: but it's ultimately, in my opinion, meant to be a
Speaker 8: horror warning story and people walked out. So that tells
Speaker 8: me that we did the right We did the job right.
Speaker 5: Sure. Sure, because of the horrible nature of what these
Speaker 5: people have done and what they depict in these tapes.
Speaker 5: When you saw the test viewings and the reaction, you
Speaker 5: have any trepidation in with this release? Is it a
Speaker 5: little bit ahead of its time? Possibly?
Speaker 8: Don't know. I mean I want to say yes, but
Speaker 8: that's not you go talking. I've seen a lot of
Speaker 8: movies and I've seen some very horrible films, and I
Speaker 8: think it's a throwback, So it's not what you would call.
Speaker 8: I hesitate to say ahead of its time, but I
Speaker 8: think it's right on the top. I think it's the
Speaker 8: kind of story that needs now, and I think the
Speaker 8: style of a throwback. But that's why I feel like
Speaker 8: it needs to be told now because these days Hollywood
Speaker 8: tells very carbon copied, created, like very controlled stories, and
Speaker 8: I think it's important to tell these kinds of stories.
Speaker 8: So it's something that's right for right now. I think
Speaker 8: it just hits the nail on the head.
Speaker 5: There's no love story in this is there.
Speaker 8: There's a dark love story. There's a love story between
Speaker 8: Leonard Lake's ex wife Carolyn blaz who, like earlier, I
Speaker 8: think from my research she was a lot more active
Speaker 8: in the murders than then. She not only lets on
Speaker 8: but has gotten you know, negative credit work. I think
Speaker 8: it's a dark love story, but like not in the
Speaker 8: way Edwards is Her Hands is a love story where
Speaker 8: you know, well, I.
Speaker 5: Just that was just some what kidding because Hollywood always
Speaker 5: has to have a love story, even Capodi's somehow had one, And.
Speaker 8: I think I want story a horrible love story. It's
Speaker 8: it's a love story of a man who loved his
Speaker 8: wife and I wanted to try to create his wife
Speaker 8: by kidnapping other women and turning him, turning them into
Speaker 8: what he wanted his wife to be. And it's a
Speaker 8: horrible story, and it's not really love. It's in his mind.
Speaker 8: It's a love story. But I think in uh, you know,
Speaker 8: any audience's mine who you know has their faculties, it's
Speaker 8: not a love story.
Speaker 5: No, yeah, absolutely. I want to thank you for coming
Speaker 5: on and talking about the random murders for those people
Speaker 5: that might want to check out the website, and if
Speaker 5: you could, I would like you to post your tiler
Speaker 5: failer for the movie Miranda Murders on my face personal
Speaker 5: Facebook page. I have a true murder of Facebook page.
Speaker 5: I don't really use. I just use my personal Facebook page.
Speaker 5: So if you were able to do that, Matthew, I'd
Speaker 5: greatly appreciate it for those people that comment and also
Speaker 5: go to Facebook to listen to the program I guess
Speaker 5: and to make comments. So if you could give us
Speaker 5: that give us that address and any other contacts as well,
Speaker 5: and if you could tell us about other work as well,
Speaker 5: and direct people to somewhere where they could see your
Speaker 5: other film.
Speaker 8: Work, certainly I would absolutely love to share my stuff
Speaker 8: on our Facebook page. I'll post the trailer. You can
Speaker 8: go to shock Beest Horror Factory dot com. I highly
Speaker 8: recommend going to the Mirando Murders on Facebook, the Mirandomers,
Speaker 8: lost tapes of Letting Lake and Charles Ing. There's probably
Speaker 8: gonna be more updates on there about the release of
Speaker 8: the film and where you can watch the film. If
Speaker 8: you want to see some of my previous work, I
Speaker 8: have shops. As I said earlier, Webster is called Hollywood Routes,
Speaker 8: which I'm still working on with Actually gil My producer
Speaker 8: and before that I shot a web series called Horror
Speaker 8: Show Theater which you can see on Sepulture Productions, which
Speaker 8: is on YouTube and Facebook. Highly recommend going to the
Speaker 8: Mirando Murders on Facebook. That's really where you want to go.
Speaker 8: And yes, I definitely sure my information on your page.
Speaker 8: Thank you for offerings.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you very much Matthew Rosalie for the Mirando Murders,
Speaker 5: the lost tapes of Leonard Lake and Charles Ing. I'm
Speaker 5: looking forward to this and as I know many many
Speaker 5: true crime fans and fans of true murder will be
Speaker 5: looking forward to this. Sounds very exciting. Congratulations, Thank you
Speaker 5: very much and you have a great evening. Thanks again
Speaker 5: for this interview.
Speaker 8: Thank you, d Pleasure.
Speaker 5: Good night,