WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:07.000 Ah, the information economy has a ride. 2 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.480 The world is teeming with innovation as new business models 3 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:14.960 reinvent every industry industry. Inside Analysis is your source of 4 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:18.160 information and insight about how to make the most of 5 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:22.320 this exciting new era. Learn more at inside analysis dot com, 6 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:26.879 insideanalysis dot com. And now here's your host, Eric Kavanaugh. 7 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.399 All Right, ladies and gentlemen, Hello, and welcome back to 8 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.479 the only nationally syndicated show all about the information economy. 9 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.640 It's called Inside Analysis. Your truly Eric Kavanaugh, and I'm 10 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:44.119 very excited to be talking about one of the hottest 11 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:47.000 topics out there. Who doesn't love a fun race car? 12 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:49.640 Who doesn't love a software defined vehicle? 13 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:50.280 What is that? 14 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:52.759 What is a software defined vehicle? We're going to find 15 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:54.399 out on the show today with a couple of experts. 16 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:57.560 We've got Michael Franz from FPT calling in and also 17 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.679 Florian Rhade who is with a company called Process. He 18 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.079 used to work at Tesla, so he's done some cool stuff. 19 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:04.719 He's out there in Las Vegas, so you know he's 20 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:06.840 having fun. I mean, we live in Vegas. I mean, 21 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:09.560 come on, it's twenty four to seven fund all the time. 22 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:12.879 So we're going to talk about what's happening in the 23 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:16.480 world of vehicles, and I think this is fascinating. I'm 24 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:18.879 an old timer, so I had cars where you had 25 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:21.200 to roll up the windows. You know, there's something special 26 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:25.079 about that. If the fuse breaks, you could still roll 27 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.439 the window down, so that's nice. But other than that, 28 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.640 we like to have automatic windows and automatic gosh darn 29 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.239 everything these days. I mean, the amount of innovation in 30 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:37.239 this space is really quite remarkable. And obviously Elon Musk 31 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:39.120 had something to do with that. Not everything, but he 32 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:40.760 had something to do with it. And our guests are 33 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:42.879 going to help us understand what is going on out there. 34 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:45.319 So maybe Florian, I'll start with you. Tell us a 35 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:48.200 bit about yourself and your company and how you got 36 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:50.319 all into software divined vehicles. 37 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:52.719 Yeah, thank you, Eric, and you got that right with Vegas. 38 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.879 It's twenty four seven fun all the time. I've been 39 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.200 in the automotive world for about twenty years now, and 40 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:01.480 the most interesting window that started in twenty twelve when 41 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.439 I joined a small company called Tesla Motors. It was 42 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.439 a very small it was about two thousand people in 43 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.680 the world, and we started building those cars. We never 44 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:13.159 called them sdvs or software defined vehicles. We just decided, 45 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:15.560 let's build a card the way we think a car 46 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.919 should be from here on forward. And it turns out 47 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.639 then at one point the industry labeled that SDVS. So 48 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.960 I was at that company for six years almost and 49 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.240 it was responsible for all the validation, so the testing 50 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:33.199 of the software before it goes out of the development 51 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:36.000 into the hands of the final of the end customers. 52 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:38.840 And we signed off over seven hundred software releases in 53 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:44.159 this six years. So it's a huge amount of software 54 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:47.439 we got out. And yes, let me just pick up 55 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:50.400 real quick with your window lifters, because electric windows are 56 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.199 not SDV features, just to take that out of their way. 57 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.879 There's EE features. That's the last generation of cars somewhere 58 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.919 started in the early eighties, and we see that currently 59 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:05.479 still out there. So those are actuated systems and they're 60 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:09.319 controlled by microprocessors. Sdvs go one step further where you 61 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:14.080 actually have a feature rich, updatable and upgradeable vehicle that 62 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.199 is continuously improving at least, so it is the plan 63 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:18.319 for the future from here on. 64 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.439 Yeah, that's really interesting stuff. And you can you can 65 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:24.560 adjust any number of things in that operating system, right 66 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.560 because it's got a computer. I mean, lots of cars 67 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:28.840 have had computers for a number of years, but not 68 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.280 a very sophisticated computer. And this one is even more 69 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:33.759 sophisticated than any of the ones that have come before it. 70 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.240 Can you kind of walk us through what goes in there? 71 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:38.800 What kinds of things can you update? Is it how 72 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:42.280 the car is running? I mean you're actually affecting fuel, 73 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.159 oxygen levels or something. Get into the details for us. 74 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:47.879 So the cool thing is you actually already talk about 75 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.599 the next generation of SDV. So what we see currently 76 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.639 is that you actually have the controllers, the computers in 77 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.360 the car working together. This is the first generation of 78 00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:59.719 an SDV, so you still have distributed computers in the car, 79 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.479 only one, but they are starting to work on things together. 80 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.639 So you have features and functionalities that are provided by 81 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:11.080 several computers in together. And I have a very simple 82 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.560 example from my Tesla times when they came up with 83 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:18.399 a feature that you can use your microphone from your 84 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.720 Bluetooth speaker set to talk to the people outside of 85 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:26.199 the car through the pedestrian speaker wanting speaker. So those 86 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:28.800 systems were never designed to work together, and those systems 87 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:31.959 were never interconnected with each other, but with software defined 88 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.160 vehicle functionality, they were actually able to make them work 89 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.959 together if that feature is really necessary, not as a 90 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:41.639 different question, but they make them make them work together 91 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.079 and provided an over the air software update similar to 92 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:47.120 what you know from your cell phone into the car 93 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:51.759 to offer you that new feature. The next generation will 94 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.399 be what we call HPC, so high performance computers, which 95 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.480 you can basically assume it is like a central computer 96 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.160 from this some logistics in the car. That is probably 97 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.160 going to be more like to one in the front 98 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:05.800 and one in the rear of the car because of 99 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:09.399 the harness and the wiring issues, but in general that 100 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:12.199 will be the next thing, and you can in very 101 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.160 very simplified ways. You can think about your four eighty 102 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:17.240 six IBM computer where you had to put all the 103 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:20.079 stuff together that it works to your laptop you're probably 104 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:22.600 looking into right now that is out of the box, 105 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.279 and you know you have shared memory between the graphics 106 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:28.160 driver and the hot drive and the process on this 107 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:30.680 kind of stuff. So that is in a very simplified 108 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:31.959 way where we are going. 109 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:35.279 Yeah, and a lot of the features do revolve around safety, 110 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.399 right like on keeping you in your lanes, alerting you 111 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.000 doing things of this nature. And I think there's been 112 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.040 a lot of advancement in the last few years of 113 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:47.519 identifying what is a bicycle nearby, what's a car coming 114 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:49.879 at me? What are these things? Because obviously the car 115 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:53.240 has to identify this and then act in real time. 116 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:55.360 You can't be you know, can't wait for an overnight 117 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.399 update when something's coming at you, right. 118 00:05:57.879 --> 00:05:58.079 Yeah. 119 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.240 And one of the reasons is because the compute in 120 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.680 cars is growing significantly. So what the features you just mentioned, 121 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:06.920 They need a lot of compute power in order to 122 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:10.439 do the vision and the perception and then the reaction 123 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:14.399 based on that. And we see this catching up in cars. 124 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:17.680 You have seen much higher compute power already in domestic 125 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:21.199 appli and applications like computers and so on. But cars 126 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:24.000 is a little different, beast, because they can be outside 127 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.199 at minus forty degrees celsius and they can be outside 128 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.720 at at here in Vegas we topped out at forty 129 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.800 seven degrees celsius one hundred and seventeen fahrenheit I believe, 130 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.199 so your cell phone will not work in either of 131 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.600 those conditions. So this is why the car industry is 132 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:43.079 a little behind. And this is maybe where Mike can 133 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.079 chip in a little bit from punintended from the chip 134 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:50.639 side of things, because it takes a little bit longer 135 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:54.439 to make those high performance compute chips ready for those 136 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:56.480 environments cars are used in. 137 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:59.319 Yeah, that's a good point. I did some work with 138 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:04.000 the Electric Racing Association over in Europe a couple of 139 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:05.519 years ago. It was a lot of fun. I mean, 140 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.839 those electric cars are super fast, and the young kid, 141 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:11.120 the driver, who is such a neat guy he had 142 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:13.439 he gave me the headline with the article. He said, 143 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.879 we have all the torque all the time. I was like, oh, 144 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.800 that's the headline right there. And he's such a wonderful man. 145 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:23.720 But I learned that there was a race in Spain 146 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:25.879 where where they had to cancel it because it was 147 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.879 too darn hot and the vehicles just wouldn't run. So 148 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.240 I'll throw it over to Michael. The real world can 149 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:34.680 be brutal out there from heat to cold. I mean, 150 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.639 you're in the Detroit area. 151 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:39.920 In Michigan, so yeah, we're kind of about to start 152 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:43.519 going through some things. And yeah, Eric, you're right. The 153 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:47.000 vehicle environment is not monolithic. It's not in an air 154 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:50.879 conditioned environment. Ninety eight percent of the time, we have 155 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.959 various applications and conditions that are that the vehicles we 156 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.560 know and love have to operate in. That's why for 157 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:02.600 years manufactures of tested in arctic conditions, they're tested in 158 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:06.279 desert conditions, because they have to make sure that the 159 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:09.519 that the integrator of the vehicle and everything that's in 160 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.000 it can operate in a multitude of environments before it 161 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:15.800 goes on the road. It's it's not good enough to 162 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:19.560 launch it worth an application and so okay, well we'll 163 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:23.000 worry about that future or feature set in the next update, 164 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:26.480 in the next after ninety deaths, it's difficult to operate 165 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.680 in those environments like that, and and of course that's 166 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.720 where that's where the adeation meets the reality oftentimes in 167 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.440 the automotive industry, where where you can you can market 168 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:38.720 and position a product or a brand in a certain 169 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.120 in a certain way, and then the regular does have 170 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.039 to come in and say, well, guys, this is actually 171 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.759 what you've got, and this is why we classify it 172 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:50.279 as X Y Z right. And that's important because at 173 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.279 the end of the day, it's still a three ton 174 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.799 weapon in the wrong hands and needs to operate in 175 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.879 a very safe condition and of course, the more we 176 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:01.919 expose h cos to software, the more we have to 177 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:05.960 secure them because this is this this becomes the next 178 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:09.320 problem because as you open and expose yourself to the technology, 179 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:12.360 so you open and expose your product and your service 180 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:16.639 to bad actors around the planet. And again, not all 181 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:20.519 vehicles are created equal, right uh, and thever will be there, 182 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:23.759 there will be there will be manufacturers who will launch 183 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:26.399 soft and defined vehicle technologies that are not as secure 184 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:29.320 as everybody else's. And I'll give you a classic example 185 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:33.120 right from from wayback, the Volve passenger car brand. When 186 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.000 I say Vulbert, most people think of safety, and it 187 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.559 would take an extraordinary amount of money for any other 188 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:42.080 OEM to ever go and climb that mountain and say 189 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.639 we're safer than a Volve that that people just don't 190 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:49.759 do it. It's the same around software development, right The manufacturers 191 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:53.279 that are SUSPI personally, the manufacturers that take care of 192 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.480 the security and the securitization of their product as they 193 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.519 launch their feature sets and software will ultimately win the 194 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:05.639 race because we will we will unfortunately, see something's happened 195 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.919 as as as this technology matures and goes into the industry. 196 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.440 Right well, and that is I mean, you bring up 197 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:13.559 an excellent point because you know and I often sit 198 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.960 and think about this stuff, security and protocols and technologies, 199 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.600 and of course the keybob comes along. And that's great 200 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:21.440 because you can find your car in a parking lot. 201 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:23.799 But if you lose your keybob, so can the bad guy. 202 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:26.399 If you describe your keybob and walk around the park 203 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.039 and I go beepep up there it is I go 204 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:28.759 steal that pull. 205 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.919 We all know that the nightmare stories already of things 206 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:34.120 like key fobs that are that are not secured in 207 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:37.320 the security code hopping where we're bad at this can 208 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.679 can jam the signals, copy them and then open your 209 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.200 vehicle and drive right. This is not new. This has 210 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:46.120 been in the industry for many, many years, and it's 211 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.519 as the simplest function today. Pick the button, open the 212 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:53.240 vehicle right or lock the vehicle and proximity to the 213 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:57.279 vehicle full timelindow. All of those things really present a risk, 214 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.240 and that's no technology right. So we have to we 215 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:01.879 have to take care of all of these things in 216 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.919 a responsible way, and we have to take care of 217 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:11.120 it in a multitude of places and times and locations. 218 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:15.960 And geographies, and technology stacks and things like mobile networks 219 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:18.919 that run on different frequencies. The vehicles have to talk 220 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:23.480 on multiple frequencies in different geolocations to the back end 221 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.480 and from the back end to itself. So it's it's 222 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.799 it's a complex world, and we have and manufacturers and 223 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:34.000 the Tier one partners have a responsibility to look after 224 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:35.759 the vehicles that are already on the road for a 225 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.519 number of years, and they have to play for the 226 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.679 future at the same time. So it's a huge responsibility idea. 227 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:43.679 Yeah, that's a really good point because you do have 228 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.840 this entire arc of legacy vehicles out there. I mean, 229 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.679 you've got cars from the nineteen forty still driving around. 230 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:53.240 And the reality, the reality on the road is today 231 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:56.159 in America, the average vehicle is twelve points something years old. 232 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.279 People are keeping the year their cars longer and longer 233 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:03.480 because affordability is an issue, you know, the economic climate's 234 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.840 an issue, right, we have to acknowledge these things. We 235 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:09.080 must push forward. But the reality on the ground is 236 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.159 that the vehicles we even introduce today are probably going 237 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:14.519 to be around for more than ten years, and somebody 238 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.080 has to take care of all of that technology stack 239 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.720 as it goes forward, you know the in it we 240 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.960 talk about technical debt in terms of in terms of 241 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:28.360 aging infrastructure and aging technologies. I believe that the industry 242 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.000 will needs to take care of the of the when 243 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.440 you say technical deat of today's vehicles twelve years from now, 244 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.480 because the vehicle in twelve years from now will look 245 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.879 very different to what it is today. 246 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.840 Well, and that's I would sorry, I would argue I'm 247 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:43.720 more afraid of the vehicles of last year than I'm 248 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.240 afraid of the vehicles from thirteen years. 249 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.080 Ago from security point of view. 250 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.279 Because absolutely, that's why my car that I owe, not lease, 251 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:53.559 is genious. 252 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:56.639 Yes, So it's as soon as the vehicles start to 253 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.679 become a member and a participant at communication that goes around, 254 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:03.600 like we call this V two X or a vehicle 255 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.159 to everything or vehicle to vehicle v t V. This 256 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:10.879 is where security actually has to go a whole level 257 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.039 up because my vehicle can now tell Mike's vehicle to 258 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.519 slim the brakes for a variety of reasons, and if 259 00:13:17.559 --> 00:13:20.360 I have an malicious attack planned on Mike, I can 260 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:23.360 just tell his car to stop. Obviously, this is a 261 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.960 very simplified example and It is not that easy. But 262 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.159 there are those things, and it is the fact that 263 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.759 this technology is out there is Mike mentioned, and it's 264 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.639 available not only for car makers, it's also available for 265 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.960 people who have bad ideas around cars. So I would 266 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.960 even argue they are ahead from the technology point of 267 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:48.080 view compared to the carmakers and OEMs right now from 268 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:49.120 security point of view. 269 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:53.039 Wow, that's interesting. And you know, you remind me of 270 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.480 something that I think is quite fascinating because these cars 271 00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:59.679 are instrumented, and so you're gathering data from various points 272 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:01.919 like the break and the engine in other places like that. 273 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:06.120 I'm guessing that is incredibly valuable data for the next 274 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:09.639 generation of car design, right for being able to optimize 275 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:13.600 the wheels or the drive train or whatever the case 276 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:17.240 may be. Having that just massive treasure trove of data 277 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:19.440 coming in from the vehicles that's got to be fun 278 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:20.279 to work with, right. 279 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:20.840 Yeah. 280 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.279 So the fact is that as an engineer, you only 281 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:26.519 know that you if you underdesigned your product, if you 282 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.440 overdesigned it, you never know because it will never come 283 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:29.919 back to you. 284 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:30.200 Right. 285 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.759 So they come back to service when something breaks, but 286 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.120 if they never come back to service, you don't know. 287 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.120 If you reached ninety nine percent of the capability over 288 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.080 lifetime or one percent, and one percent is a nightmare 289 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.759 because that means you completely overpaid the development of that product. 290 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.919 And we had at Tesla, we had those situations where 291 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.320 we actually looked at the data and we actively took 292 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.200 that information into consideration for cost downs and for next 293 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.879 generation vehicles, to not only make those things that broke 294 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:00.840 more sturdy and better for the next generation, but also 295 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.720 make those things that were completely overdesigned and therefore also 296 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.919 probably too heavy light more lightweight and better suited for 297 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.720 electric vehicles. But I have to say as well, depends 298 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:13.480 on where you are in the world. There's huge discussions 299 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.399 who owns that data. Is it the owner of the 300 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.080 car who creates that data by driving the car. Is 301 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.799 it the maker of the car, who you know, collects 302 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.360 the data in your car. Is it maybe a mixture 303 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:29.120 of that. So that has not concluded yet that discussion. 304 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.879 And Florin has been a great engineer by saying, you 305 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.279 want to collect all the data all the time, of course, 306 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.600 and of course I always count to that by saying 307 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.440 and right now, because we're building it out and we're 308 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:45.399 discovering new things. The engineers are driving that push for data. 309 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.480 How much of that data is really needed when the 310 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.919 vehicle is launched, Right, at what point do we have 311 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.000 to say, well, not every thing is that needs to 312 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.000 be available real time live. Certain things have to be 313 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.559 other things can may be stored and up later because 314 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:05.279 at the moment the amount of data is exponentially ten 315 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.720 xing the more the more technology put in the vehicles, 316 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.759 and the more the it's algorithm based in in terms 317 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:15.840 of what are the performance of the vehicle, you know, 318 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:16.279 et cetera. 319 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.879 So AND's a there's a very simple example because the 320 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:24.159 car communicates the exterior temperature with one hundred hertz inside 321 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.879 the car, but you don't have changes in the temperature 322 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.679 within milliseconds, so you don't really have to collect that 323 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:33.679 data on a ten millisecond base, right, every ten minutes 324 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.200 is enough. That's a very simple example. Everybody can grasp. 325 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.720 No, that's a good point. And you know we're coming 326 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:41.200 up on the end of this first second here in 327 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.200 just a minute. But what I think is really fascinating 328 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.440 is the whole design process and how all these different 329 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:51.320 parts have to come together. And so you talk about 330 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.000 something having been over engineered or it's too heavy, or 331 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.320 it's too expensive. You know, these days, we're getting to 332 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:01.000 the point where you really can map out and understand 333 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.679 how much time it took to build this part or 334 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:07.000 that part, what the parts cost themselves. My point is like, 335 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.480 we're so much better today than we were probably even 336 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:13.039 twenty years ago in terms of being able to really 337 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:16.200 understand what is the total cost of ownership, what is 338 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.200 the cost of all the personnel who went into the 339 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.880 design phase to get us to this next stage? And 340 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.960 how do you prioritize That's what I'd love to understand 341 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:27.319 is as you as you roll out one one car, 342 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:31.039 the twenty twenty five version, I'm sure immediately the engineers 343 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:33.920 are already thinking to the twenty twenty six version, you know, 344 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.799 what should we change for that? Do weeople want more 345 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.200 do they want a better gas mileage? Do they want 346 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:40.960 better comfort? 347 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:41.240 You know? 348 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:45.519 And then knowing like how to compartmentalize all that stuff, 349 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.200 that's got to be a fascinating series of meetings and 350 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.480 discussions and decisions that are made to determine you have 351 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:53.640 to hit certain deadlines and okay, this is why it's 352 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.519 going to be for next time. Well, folks, don't touch 353 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.200 that that'll be right back by a fantastic conversation about 354 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:01.559 software divined vehicles. You're listening to Inside Analysis. 355 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:06.680 Inspired what's the longest running show in the world about data, 356 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.400 DM Radio. 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