1 00:00:05,639 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: What is up? Felsic goes, I am dam Valley coming 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,039 at you with the one the only Mort Jensen of 3 00:00:11,759 --> 00:00:15,199 the NBA podcast, fame, of the Yahoo Sports, fame, of 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Forbes fame, and of Only Fans celebrity. He has agreed 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,440 to help us finish chugging along with our off season 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,160 look Ahead series, which we are very appreciative to him for. 7 00:00:25,679 --> 00:00:28,160 The Chicago Bulls are getting the hardwood knocks. The off 8 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:31,039 season look Ahead treatment, not preview, not outlook. These are 9 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:34,640 look aheads. They're fancier, they're smantier, they are offseason lookheads. 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,960 More before we belly flop in to all things Chicago Bulls, 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:38,600 how the heck are you? 12 00:00:39,399 --> 00:00:42,679 Speaker 2: I'm doing very very well until I'd learned just now 13 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:46,799 that we're talking about the Chicago Bulls. So we'll see. 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,399 Speaker 1: I lured you here under the false pretenses of we 15 00:00:49,399 --> 00:00:51,159 were going to talk about the Charlotte Hornets, and you 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,359 were just all excited. Little did you know that look 17 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:55,960 Ahead already went up, and so I tricked you, duped you. 18 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,600 It's onto the Bulls. Let us begin the core question 19 00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:04,120 here more I think, is so what's the plan they 20 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,280 It's a cliche question, but They've given extensions to Billy Donovan, 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,959 which is probably fine, not necessarily inspirational, but fine, as 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,000 well as our tourists Karnosovas. And that's not fine. And 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,000 I'm gonna tell you why it's not fine. It wasn't publicized. 24 00:01:20,079 --> 00:01:22,879 It kind of leaked after the fact, and anytime that happens, 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,040 it kind of proves that the organization knows it's not 26 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:30,040 gonna be received well. And if you're embarrassed by extending 27 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:32,640 your front office, you probably need to look in. We're 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,319 in wonder is there a problem with the front office 29 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,719 or the mandates that we've given them? So I just 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,719 before we dive in extensions, cap sheet, the whole nine, 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,280 what's the plan here? Moore? 32 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: Oh, there isn't one, Dan, there isn't one, and there 33 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,359 never has been outside of twenty twenty one when that 34 00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:55,439 fell together. Because everything kind of relied on the health 35 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,519 of Launcher Ball. It seems stop planning. Generally speaking, they 36 00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:02,439 have not for anything over the past four years. Everything 37 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,840 is just happening happenstance because this is an organization that 38 00:02:07,079 --> 00:02:10,639 is flat out lacy bad at what they do, from 39 00:02:10,719 --> 00:02:15,639 ownership down to management. Like this is a team that finally, finally, 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,280 after decades of being behind the curve, changed their shot 41 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:23,560 profile dramatically, started leaning into three pointers, starting leaning into 42 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,400 shot optimization and shot profile optimization at the year where 43 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:32,960 Cooper Flagg was in the draft, which okay, fair enough, 44 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,800 like better late than ever, weird timing, but better late 45 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,680 than ever. And then they fired that their shooting coach, 46 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:42,840 Peter Patten, who apparently was the main architect of this 47 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:50,599 entire shooting movement optimized shot profile movement, honestly because he 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,080 wasn't inclined to agree a whole lot with our tourist Karnishovas, 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,759 which again speaks to one of the worst habits that 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,800 is consistently present within the Chicago Bulls front office, which 51 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:05,599 is they align themselves with yes men and people who 52 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,680 have no fucking clue what they're doing. If someone smart 53 00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:13,240 speaks up, you're out of the organization. And that is 54 00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:16,039 a common theme, not just from within the organization, but 55 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,680 if they have beat writers or someone else who asks 56 00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:22,800 them critical questions, all lo and Behold credentials are being pulled. 57 00:03:23,319 --> 00:03:28,560 This is hands down the most embarrassing sports franchise in 58 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,800 North America at president maybe even the broader world. When 59 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,840 it comes to sports, it's a sham of a franchise 60 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,719 and organization and everything should burn to the ground, from 61 00:03:39,759 --> 00:03:45,159 ownership down to the last ticket salesman in the office. 62 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,919 Speaker 1: And with that, will you with the shout out to 63 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:50,400 Frank neil kea and apologies Jarred out. I wonder how 64 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:53,719 many listeners we lost right there. But let's look, you're gonna. 65 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,439 Speaker 2: Catch you though. 66 00:03:55,159 --> 00:03:59,039 Speaker 1: You think so like because I think are smart, I'm 67 00:03:59,039 --> 00:04:01,199 not fans of very smart. I think there are a 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,000 ton of Bulls fans that are very smart. But I 69 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,319 guess the most vocal, at least in our comments section 70 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,560 are always just you guys, have no idea what you're 71 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,639 talking about, like Patrick Williams of the second Coming of 72 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,719 Kawhi Leonard type stuff. So those people have probably already 73 00:04:13,719 --> 00:04:16,240 tuned out. But let's start. Let's let's dig in to 74 00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:20,199 their offseason vitals. Very great little monologue from you, though, 75 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:22,639 and it's actually terrifying how spot on it was. So 76 00:04:22,759 --> 00:04:26,759 the Bulls are going to enter the summer around about 77 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:30,120 fifty three million beneath the luxury tax and about sixty 78 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,600 million beneath the first apron. This includes a cap hold 79 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,560 for the number twelve pick. However, it does not include 80 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,199 a cap hold for trade Jones or more notably Josh Giddy. 81 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,480 You will get to him in a second. Regardless, the 82 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,279 Bulls should have no issue accessing their non tax payer 83 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:47,480 mid level exception of fourteen point one million. I look 84 00:04:47,519 --> 00:04:50,079 forward to their excuse as to why they didn't use it, 85 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,319 and it will be so that they could use it 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,240 the trade deadline, only not to use it at the 87 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,680 trade deadline when they cheap out and they have all 88 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,920 of their own first moving forward that they could trade. 89 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,079 They also have a Blazer's twenty twenty six. First, it's 90 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:03,639 a lot of protected through twenty twenty eight. If it 91 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,160 does not convey it'll just turn into a second. That's 92 00:05:06,199 --> 00:05:08,439 an interesting one because it's you can now kind of 93 00:05:08,439 --> 00:05:11,759 see maybe not next year, but twenty twenty seven, twenty 94 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,759 twenty eight, that might be a pick that conveyed. So 95 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,759 in theory they have an extra first round pick to trade. 96 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,920 Any notes on that stuff before we get into some 97 00:05:18,959 --> 00:05:20,040 of the roster decisions. 98 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 2: You you basically put it out as well as as 99 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,199 you could, So, yeah, those are just fact based. What 100 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,199 can I say? You're just lining out facts, Josh. 101 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: Kiddy though restricted free agent? How much is he worth? 102 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: Now? 103 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,879 Speaker 1: I just want to lay out what his max could be. 104 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,279 This is for reference, not an endorsement. He can get. 105 00:05:39,319 --> 00:05:41,519 Four years and one hundred and seventy three point two 106 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,279 million or five years and two hundred and twenty four 107 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,839 point two million would be his maxes. He could also 108 00:05:46,959 --> 00:05:48,759 get if they want to give him. You know the 109 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,879 language of if you make all MBA, you get the 110 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,439 extra max he could get. I think it would be 111 00:05:52,439 --> 00:05:54,920 five years and two hundred ninety six million for anyone 112 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,519 who cares about that. Now, this is the part that 113 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,319 we need your input on. There was the reporting from 114 00:06:01,439 --> 00:06:05,879 Mark stein over at the Steinline suggests that Giddy or 115 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:08,759 execs around the league believe Giddy is seeking something in 116 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,160 the ballpark of five years and one hundred and fifty million, 117 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,120 and that he is expected to get it. So the 118 00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:18,560 core question here more how much is Josh Giddy worth? 119 00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:25,519 Speaker 2: So on your four year max not proposal, but outline 120 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,959 there it says four years, one and seventy three point 121 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,519 two million dollars. Let's just take the one away from 122 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:33,079 that number. 123 00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: I knew this was going to be spicy from you. 124 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,879 This is look he hit his threes is a reasonable clip? 125 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:42,240 This year? 126 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,879 Speaker 2: He asked, no, No, he hit his open threes. That's 127 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,720 at a reasonable clip. 128 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,959 Speaker 1: My point was going to be, defenses don't change the 129 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,040 way that they're guarding the bulls because Josh Giddy is 130 00:06:52,079 --> 00:06:55,600 hitting threes. And I think what's even more concerning for me, 131 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,800 the vision is there, the floater might come around, maybe 132 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,720 the finishing gets a little better. What's more concerning for 133 00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:04,720 me is that defensively, he almost needs to be a 134 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,519 four or just someone who's always on, like the most 135 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:12,560 stationary perimeter player possible, and that has inherent limitations. And 136 00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:16,560 I think it's even more restricting when you have so 137 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,519 many other fucking guards on your roster. Io Deasunmu, Kobe White, 138 00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:26,000 Lonzo Ball, Javon Carter's got a player option. I don't 139 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,199 know what, Like if you told me they signed him 140 00:07:28,199 --> 00:07:31,800 for five and one hundred four and eighty, I don't 141 00:07:31,879 --> 00:07:34,759 I probably wouldn't bat an eye. And relative to the 142 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,920 salary cap, we're talking between fifteen and twenty percent, I 143 00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:42,279 don't think that's backbreaking. If you're gonna go over that, 144 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,560 I question what the logic is there? What is your 145 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,639 end game as a team, What is your end game 146 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,800 even if you view him as the asset. And here's 147 00:07:49,839 --> 00:07:53,360 my final issue, and this dates back to the I 148 00:07:53,399 --> 00:07:56,199 mean what they did with Patrick Williams last year. I'm 149 00:07:56,199 --> 00:07:59,519 not advocating for players to make less than they could, 150 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,399 but the way restricted free agency is set up, the 151 00:08:02,439 --> 00:08:07,160 Bulls are going to be bidding against absolutely positively nobody. 152 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:09,360 The Nets aren't giving Josh Giddy and all. I will 153 00:08:09,399 --> 00:08:11,360 be floored if the Nets give Josh giddeon off a 154 00:08:11,439 --> 00:08:14,800 sheet yep, So why are you giving him five years 155 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:17,160 and one hundred And this isn't just the Bulls, by 156 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:18,839 the way. We've seen this with other teams where they 157 00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:21,680 just pay rather than have their own guy. Their guys 158 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,399 go out and set the market. That's great. I want 159 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:27,920 every player to get paid as much as possible. Organizationally speaking, though, 160 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:30,120 it doesn't make any sense to do that, and so 161 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,879 there's a lot of smoke and mirrors this time of year. 162 00:08:32,879 --> 00:08:36,039 But if Josh Giddy gets thirty million dollars a year 163 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:39,360 or more on average, it's my belief that that will 164 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,720 age into one of the single worst contracts in the NBA. 165 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:45,279 Speaker 2: The entire question you have to ask yourself is this 166 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,639 The Oklahoma City Thunder are currently in the NBA Finals, 167 00:08:49,799 --> 00:08:53,879 one win away from potentially winning the whole shipping wait to. 168 00:08:53,879 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: Day on this podcast, which definitely will not be coming 169 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,440 out until after the finals. 170 00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: Well, okay, Well, regardless of whether they win or not, 171 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,559 how many minutes would Josh Giddy average for the Thunder 172 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:04,120 of this series. 173 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: Well, didn't we kind of see it last year in 174 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,000 the playoffs. He would be fewer minutes than he averaged 175 00:09:10,039 --> 00:09:11,759 during last year's postseason. 176 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 2: And presumably lower than ten, probably less than ten. It'll 177 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,759 be you know, he'll be end of of rotation caliber minutes. 178 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,120 It wouldn't be starting minutes. Maybe it wouldn't even be 179 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,840 close to starting minutes. Actually wouldn't even be wrote like 180 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:34,039 fully flat rotation minutes. He is not someone who impacts 181 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,919 winning to that extent. He had a fantastic run in March, 182 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,919 and he did get better at certain elements, like him 183 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,480 realizing that he's six foot eight and can actually get 184 00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:46,360 to the foul line. I will give him that, because 185 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:49,360 he started realizing, oh, I need to go downhill and 186 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,799 use the fact that I'm taller than most people guarding me, 187 00:09:53,279 --> 00:09:57,759 and he actually began drawing fouls something he was completely 188 00:09:57,759 --> 00:10:00,480 inepdad for the first three years of his career. So 189 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:07,039 that's cool, that's positive. He still gets wildly outplayed defensively 190 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,360 and moreover, even if you do say, okay, Josh Giddy, 191 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,960 with all the warts and all, we're still gonna give 192 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,039 the ball to you, like you're gonna have the ball 193 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,840 in your hands, You're gonna be our league guard. What 194 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:22,120 the fuck is the upside there? Like, what are you 195 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,840 trying to achieve? Because if you're giving him thirty million 196 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:30,519 a year and you're basically hoping that he'll ross stats 197 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,480 his way to an All Star nod, which I don't 198 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,960 think so, because voters are smart for the most part, 199 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,840 what is the endgame? What are you trying to achieve? 200 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,919 He obviously isn't much of an All ballplayer. He doesn't 201 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,159 bend defenses. He can't overwhelming you defensively. Well, he can't, 202 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,600 but that's in a negative sense that he just has 203 00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:53,360 this negative ripple effect that everyone gets confused to where 204 00:10:53,399 --> 00:10:58,000 they are. And you said something extremely interesting in that 205 00:10:58,279 --> 00:11:02,919 he should guard for it force power forwards over at Jahu. 206 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,759 I think in the fall I wrote an article saying 207 00:11:06,879 --> 00:11:09,759 Josh Kiddy's not a point guard. He's a power forward. 208 00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:14,759 I stand by that to this day because you can 209 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,879 get over the shooting issues slash concerns if you have 210 00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:24,559 more capable guards or wings on the floor with him, 211 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,600 because the bulls kind of insist that he plays the 212 00:11:27,639 --> 00:11:31,000 one they're looking at pairing him with forwards and wings. 213 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,559 He is a wing, he is a forward. He is 214 00:11:34,639 --> 00:11:37,679 not a lead guard. Like he can play a playmaking 215 00:11:37,759 --> 00:11:42,039 for who takes these opportunistic three pointers. Now, that would 216 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,360 be an interesting scenario because then you're not relying on 217 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,480 him to be like the core guy who sets everything 218 00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:52,559 up and like you're heliocentric floor leader. Now you're saying 219 00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:55,600 you're in the second or Churchy or a role where 220 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,440 you're reacting to what the lead ball handler is doing. 221 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:02,240 That I like a lot more. That would be a 222 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,960 scenario where I could see Gid he even have more 223 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,919 success than he did this year. Otherwise, if you're insistent 224 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,159 upon placing him at the point guard position and just 225 00:12:12,279 --> 00:12:16,000 letting him have carte blanche, you're fucking yourself over in 226 00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:18,440 a way that is almost biblical. 227 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I think he in theory could have more 228 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,039 value because the thunder are just a different beast altogether, 229 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,919 he has more value to a team like the Bulls 230 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:30,440 when you want players who can eat innings in the 231 00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:34,279 regular season. But if you're aiming for something bigger, better, 232 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,639 you don't go into this like five years and one 233 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,799 hundred and fifty million dollars, like that's still borderline like 234 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,559 cornerstone money. And I just don't think he's that. I 235 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,159 think there's a place where you outlined it. There's a 236 00:12:43,159 --> 00:12:46,080 place room in the NBA, But it's viewing him as 237 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,879 like a primary driver of everything for you. I wouldn't 238 00:12:48,879 --> 00:12:50,799 support it. Like again, the price point for me is 239 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,840 like I probably max out at twenty on an average 240 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,000 annual value, and even that. 241 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: Can get to twenty. I can get to twenty. 242 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: You can. 243 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: You can talk young. 244 00:12:58,799 --> 00:13:02,279 Speaker 1: Maybe he improved, but yeah, I just it's just on 245 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,639 if he ends up getting a thirty million or more 246 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:08,360 a year, that yeah, like you said, a failure of 247 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:13,080 biblical proportions, not a failure of biblical proportions. If anything, 248 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,080 it's a win. But it's now become a problem for 249 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,840 the Bulls. Kobe White's extension eligible the contract he signed 250 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,679 was it three years and thirty six, three years and 251 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:21,720 thirty three whatever. 252 00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: It was a couple of years ago, forty. 253 00:13:23,399 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: Six, great deal, one of the best in the NBA. 254 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,200 Ye problem is now in an extension. They can't give 255 00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:32,840 him more than four years and eighty point eight million dollars. 256 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,039 You offer it, and if he accepts it, that'll probably 257 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,960 make any contract Josh Giddy signs look that much worse. 258 00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:42,759 But he's not going to accept it going into free 259 00:13:42,759 --> 00:13:45,720 agency again. Just as a reference, his four year max 260 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,039 from the Bulls next year two hundred and twenty eight 261 00:13:48,039 --> 00:13:51,000 point six, his five year max from the Bulls two 262 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,399 hundred and ninety six, and then a four year max 263 00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:58,120 from another team two hundred and nineteen point four. I 264 00:13:58,159 --> 00:13:59,679 think you can sit here and say, well, they don't 265 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,399 have to worry worry about too much. No one's gonna 266 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:05,879 max him out one it takes one team, and it's 267 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:08,320 not just about another team maxing him out. But he's 268 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,279 an unrestricted free agent. Are the Bulls even if he's 269 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,879 getting sub max money, do they have to include a 270 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:16,679 fifth year? Like? Does he get the ogn andob deal 271 00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:20,320 five years, two hundred and twelve point five million, that's like, 272 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,759 maybe that's fine for a team. The Bulls are not 273 00:14:23,919 --> 00:14:26,799 that team where they're at in their competitive life cycle, 274 00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:30,679 and so it's I throw it to you. It's just 275 00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:32,919 if you're the bulls. Because this is the other part 276 00:14:32,919 --> 00:14:36,679 of it. Trading him is the probably correct call. But 277 00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:41,120 his value is already like on the downswing, not as 278 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,879 a player, but because he only has a year left 279 00:14:42,879 --> 00:14:46,320 on his contract, won't extend it that team. His next 280 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,879 team has to take it to free agency. They should 281 00:14:47,919 --> 00:14:51,919 have moved him last offseason or this past this past 282 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,159 winner at the trade deadline. Now that you can't like 283 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,279 the question here is twofold. Do you just keep him 284 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,279 at this point because you're not gonna get a lot 285 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,039 for him? Or do you just move him and then 286 00:15:02,039 --> 00:15:05,200 what's the minimum that you'd accept for him? 287 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,279 Speaker 2: Oh man, you're playing all the mort hits today. I 288 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:13,480 love it. Look they fucked up already by not moving 289 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:17,759 him earlier. They just had this situation with Alex Caruso. 290 00:15:17,919 --> 00:15:21,200 They literally just went through it and they ended up 291 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,639 getting like ten cents on the dollar for him by 292 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:24,919 just killing Josh gidding Back. 293 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: That one's worse because he ended up signing the extension 294 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,279 for which he still would have been elegibra. 295 00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:32,399 Speaker 2: Well that he signed that extension because he realized that's 296 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:37,559 a place where basketball actually wants to live. Yes, so 297 00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:45,720 I'm on fire today, sir. Here's sitting with Kobe White. Right, 298 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:49,879 This dude is a competitive guy. Like I know every 299 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,960 NBA player is that, but he is right up there 300 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,919 among the best in terms of like his competitive fire. 301 00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:59,840 There is not like you would have to almost perversely 302 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,879 overpay him for him to consider return to the Bulls, 303 00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:06,799 Like why would you as the Bulls just keep him 304 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,240 and hope to retain him a year from now in 305 00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:13,279 free agency, Because here's the thing. He can go out 306 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,919 there on the open market where there are going to 307 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,240 be a significant portion of teams that can offer him 308 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,600 similar compensation level, a much more serious approach to winning, 309 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:25,720 just a team. 310 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,519 Speaker 1: Construction offer him hope. 311 00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:30,679 Speaker 2: They can offer him hope, Yes, they they can tell 312 00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:33,360 him we have you now. Like you know the thing 313 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,080 when when you're like putting, you're you're getting people out 314 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,399 of burning buildings, like firefighters are getting out that they 315 00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,639 were covering them not in towels. But this glitzy thing, 316 00:16:42,919 --> 00:16:45,159 that's what a new organization could do with Kobe White. 317 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:48,639 They've just rescued him from a burning building. They're gonna 318 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:50,720 put the towel around him, they're gonna give him something 319 00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:52,720 to drink, and they're gonna look him deep in the 320 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,279 eye and they're gonna say, we've got you. Now you're safe. 321 00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:02,120 You're safe. Okay, incredible, that's where we are. So why 322 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,559 would the bulls imagine in any way, shape or form 323 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:13,880 that they act as a genuine threat threat to signing him? Really, like, 324 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,720 why would they think that they're actually in the picture here? 325 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:20,720 They should trade him right now for whatever the fuck 326 00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:24,200 they can get, because they already missed their window and 327 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,880 they they are so incompetent when it comes to asset management. 328 00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:34,839 Caruso now Kobe, or sorry Caruso last year Kobe now 329 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,200 And frankly also, Kobe is in the exact same situation 330 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,119 as Iodosumu, so like he's a secondary situation of this 331 00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:45,319 same thing got him at a great deal, didn't move 332 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,599 him when times when the time was to do so, 333 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,759 Like it's so bad, But I will give the bulls this, 334 00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:56,920 Dan im like, unbelievably enough, I will give the bulls this. 335 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,920 I do think that one rule or extension limit does 336 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:05,839 screw over teams to do a good job because we 337 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,720 can't say, without a shoutow of doubt, the Bulls did 338 00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:13,079 well in re signing Kobe White, Like they got him 339 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,079 at a great, great deal, one of the best in 340 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,759 the league. So that's also a shame that the league 341 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:23,079 and the CPA can thus say, hey, you know what, 342 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,880 you did a great a bit of business there. Now 343 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,559 we're gonna screw you. That's also tough, Like, that's not great. 344 00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:31,480 You want to be be able to retain your guys. 345 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,799 But the rules are what they are, and the Bulls 346 00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:38,720 just don't understand how to make the most of them, 347 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,640 and as such they wasted their opportunity. Now they have 348 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,200 to flip him. And you're asking me, what's the minimum 349 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,160 you'd accept, I don't know, a protected first. 350 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,519 Speaker 1: Wow, because yeah. I Mean what's interesting too, is like 351 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,319 two of the teams that we liked him the most 352 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,440 for are just kind of off the board in Orlando 353 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,920 and San Antonio when you look at what san Antonio 354 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:01,640 is there all. 355 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 2: But there's a team that's entered the conversation, sir, and 356 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,240 they're laying in the finals right now. 357 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: Okay, see, we talked about we talked about him with okaysee, 358 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:11,920 I think leading into the maybe it was me and 359 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,119 grant that they put Yeah, I mean that offense. That's 360 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,720 and I actually think that you posted this on social 361 00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:22,880 media the Thunder. We're recording this before the finals are over. 362 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,240 The Thunder could win the title. And you can't sit 363 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:26,920 there and think that the offense is just going to 364 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,680 be okay moving forward. 365 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: Correct. They need they need another score, and specifically they 366 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,480 need a scorer who can stretch the floor like so 367 00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:38,119 many of their guys right now in Oksee are just 368 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,519 not hitting their threes to the point where you have 369 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,359 to get someone in another name. I also pitched for them. 370 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:47,319 I know we're talking about the bulls. Is Malik Beastly 371 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,160 by the way. I would love him there, like just 372 00:19:49,319 --> 00:19:52,480 flying under the radar off of an everyone. But Kobe 373 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,799 White is another player. You can get him because one 374 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,839 the salary just makes a ton of sense, Like what's 375 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,880 the at twelve point eight million? 376 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's at like under thirteen for next one? 377 00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: Wonderful? Like the salary mention component can be done in 378 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,240 your sleep. There, that's so easy. 379 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:10,559 Speaker 1: I think with them, the problem is you're almost doing 380 00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:13,079 that as either a one or could you say, a 381 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,720 two year rental because his next contract and then in 382 00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:18,759 you know, in conjunction with J dub and Schet getting 383 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:21,559 paid and then worrying about Shay. Another team I had 384 00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:25,519 thought about, like, would you do what would you do? 385 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,000 Vouch and Kobe White for RJ. Barrett and a first 386 00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:31,480 round pick? 387 00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: Why not? 388 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: I think the Bulls would say that that's not enough. 389 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,759 Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean, look again, the Bulls could say 390 00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:42,279 that if they wanted to trade him at the trade 391 00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:45,119 deadline or last offseason, then I would agree with them. 392 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:49,519 But like, what's the alternative right now losing him for 393 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,160 nothing in free agency? 394 00:20:53,079 --> 00:20:55,079 Speaker 1: I would you know what, He'd be great on the 395 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,559 Los Angeles Clippers. I wonder if they would be able to. 396 00:20:57,559 --> 00:20:59,480 I wonder if they could get because all their first 397 00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:01,759 round picks, they could trade up to two first But 398 00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:03,640 they're just so far off into the distance that if 399 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,640 I'm the Clippers, I'm kind of like, uh, that's what's 400 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:07,240 tough with them. 401 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:10,839 Speaker 2: You know what, It's just a general rule with Kobe White. 402 00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:14,480 You can find twenty to twenty five teams where we go. Oh, 403 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:18,960 he'd be great there because Kobe, I think, is going 404 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,599 to be like the next pluck and playguard who is 405 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,359 just like you can pretty much piece him in everywhere. 406 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,279 Speaker 1: Oh, Minnesota beyond that'd be great. 407 00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 2: Think about it. He can play off lead guards, he 408 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,640 can be sort of a lead guard himself. He can 409 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,920 he can initiate picking rolls off the dribble. He's a 410 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,240 great catch and shoot guy. This guy will fit into 411 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,519 virtually every single offense on Earth. 412 00:21:46,319 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: You think they should go You think the King should 413 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,960 go back to the Bulls. Well, you look Kobe White 414 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,200 in there. 415 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: I mean they're already gonna trade bonus for boots and 416 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,119 stuff because right so, uh look, there's so many things 417 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:58,680 that makes sense. 418 00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,599 Speaker 1: So to wrap it up quickly, we agree he's not 419 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,519 going to get an extension because he's worth way more 420 00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:05,279 than that. Do you think that he is on the 421 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,759 Chicago Bulls at the start of the season. 422 00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:12,519 Speaker 2: What you're really asking me is, do I trust the 423 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:13,960 Bulls to do the right thing? 424 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Do you think the Bulls will trade whether it's before 425 00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:17,960 the season or by the trade deadline? Do you think 426 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,119 that they will actually move him? 427 00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:22,319 Speaker 2: Yes, like at the latest at the trade deadline. EI, 428 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:27,359 I do think that maybe the online pressure or maybe 429 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,559 ownership suddenly has a good day and actually does the 430 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,200 smart thing by going to management saying Hey, look, we're 431 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,000 gonna need something. 432 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,599 Speaker 1: Some other notable extension candidates we're not gonna talk about 433 00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:43,640 Javon Carter Dow and Terry Julian Phillips. Zach Collins are 434 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,319 also extension on. We're not going to talk about them. 435 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,640 The two that are semi interesting. I would assume vouch 436 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,799 they could extend for four years, one hundred and thirty 437 00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:56,640 four point seven millions. I hope they. I hope he 438 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,359 gets like three years and ninety or something. That would 439 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,480 be the funny, be so funny. My bradition would be 440 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:04,720 that they don't extend either of these guys. 441 00:23:05,519 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 2: No, I don't think you can. Would assume I think 442 00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:08,240 you want to. 443 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's another guy where it's going into free agency, 444 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,680 you should probably look at moving and I think the 445 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,039 problem with him though, unless it's part of a larger 446 00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:19,880 construction where you're taking back money a team doesn't want. 447 00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:22,160 I don't that you're not getting a first round pick 448 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,200 for Io Desumu. I maybe, like, I don't know, are 449 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,039 the Nets gonna give you one of their late twenty 450 00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:31,279 picks like they get like would they do something like that? 451 00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: That's interesting? I hadn't thought about, like. 452 00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:39,759 Speaker 1: What about he damn near fits into the he fits 453 00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:41,920 into the room exception the non tax Premier. He almost 454 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,440 fits into the freaking mini mid level. He doesn't. So 455 00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:47,079 there's like, you know, if Detroit. 456 00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 2: Happened, I have an idea, Like, so the Brooklyn Nets, right, 457 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,039 they can they can absorb his deal, like you'd have 458 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,519 to make the you know, a greats to the deal 459 00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:59,079 now and then make it on July first or June thirtieth. 460 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,160 But they also have the twenty sixth and the twenty 461 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,440 seventh pick like one of those those one of those 462 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,759 picks for Dusumo. 463 00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,079 Speaker 1: As the Nets. That's interesting because it's like he'd he'd 464 00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:13,200 be fun there next year. But you have to view 465 00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:15,039 him still as like kind of we want to we 466 00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:18,279 want to pay him to stay next summer because he's 467 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,240 he's the type of player that's only going to help 468 00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:22,359 your team. He won't ruin a tank. But I question, like, 469 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,640 why do you want him on your team? 470 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 2: Like that would be about there's there's logic in the 471 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,160 mat this here, because let's say he plays really really 472 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,640 well for them, then at the twenty twenty sixth trade deadline, 473 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,799 although he might be like a half your rental, his 474 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,640 contract is so small, so meager it's like seven point 475 00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:43,240 let me just double check here, seven point fine, seven 476 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,480 point five. So like, let's it might be a long 477 00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:49,400 term investment. So the Nets give up let's say twenty seven, right, 478 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,079 and that's that's barely a first rounder. I gets the 479 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,960 late so late of a first rounder is almost possibly 480 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,079 can be. Now you churn up his trade value over 481 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,400 the course of the season. Then some se t is 482 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,799 like making a push. They're like, oh, we need a guard. 483 00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:07,079 It's easy to match money. Maybe you actually squeeze out 484 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,839 an unprotected first for a team that's desperate to just 485 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:10,319 get that. 486 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're taking back some especially if they still 487 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,119 have cap flexibility to take exactly. 488 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,039 Speaker 2: So that's the Nets would have flipped twenty seven for 489 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,279 an unprotected first. 490 00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I wonder, I don't know. Unprotected seems like, 491 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,079 but I guess likely. I think there's a chance that 492 00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,599 what you're saying is like you get to summu now 493 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,720 for twenty seven, and then you might be able to 494 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,319 get the twentieth pick in next year's draft or something. 495 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 2: It's kind of that's fair. Yeah, but like then you 496 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,000 then you at least go up seven picks. 497 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,519 Speaker 1: For Yeah, that's right. I don't have an issue with it. Yeah, yeah, 498 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,759 I mean I wonder if the Bulls would do that, 499 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,480 just knowing the Bulls. But yeah, he's just another guy 500 00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:52,000 that you're probably moved given their like their competitive. 501 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 2: Horizon longs too for that matter. 502 00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: Well, I mean we got to get into this, then 503 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,839 what is their biggest need? Like if you're looking just 504 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,279 talent in general, so you're not looking at like, there's 505 00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:06,440 no one on this roster that makes you think twice 506 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,000 about getting anyone in any position. No, not at I 507 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:14,039 think I think that's fair modest. Bussel's comes closest, and 508 00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:16,480 that's just like he's still not good enough for that, 509 00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:17,200 and I like. 510 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: Him as shit son. I will give the Bulls credit 511 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,240 for like or will I he fell into their lap 512 00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:25,000 at eleven, like it would almost be gracious if they didn't. 513 00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:26,839 Speaker 1: That was like it, No, that was like at that 514 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,640 point in the draft, it's always a choice. 515 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 2: It's just it's very okay, but they chose right, So 516 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,440 I'll give them that. That's I love him, But I'm 517 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,640 not at that point where I'm willing to say, oh, 518 00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:41,000 like if someone good like even better is right there, 519 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:44,839 like for example, I'm a big Colin Murray Boyles guy, right, 520 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,119 same like, if he's there, I'm not gonna say, oh, 521 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,720 we can't pick him because we have Mansus Bosella's. 522 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,279 Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, for sure there, And I would probably 523 00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:57,680 agree with you. I do think they could use if 524 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,400 you were to kind of like game it this way. 525 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,240 I think they need like wings of the future and 526 00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:05,759 a center of the future. They just don't have that. 527 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,240 Because you could look and say, all right, maybe it's 528 00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,839 Kobe White. He'll probably be overpaid, but sure the guard 529 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:13,920 position is set and just Modus Buzzellis is just okay, 530 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,200 a hybrid forward. But like if we wanted to they need, 531 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,480 they're kind of in a similar boat to the Utah Jazz. 532 00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:23,440 They just have more. I don't even know if they 533 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,200 have more talent. They play in the East is really 534 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,960 what it is. They need a cornerstone. They don't have 535 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,359 that primary. I don't think Modess Buzzellis is that, and 536 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,160 I don't think the number twelve pick is going to 537 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:32,960 yield that either. 538 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 2: Do they need a cornerstone? I was under the impression 539 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,599 they needed just like eight to ten good guys. 540 00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:41,599 Speaker 1: Well then either way you're describing a team without Josh 541 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,000 Giddy if youel like so right right, so to look 542 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,640 at it this way, set the over under one point 543 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,880 five of these players being on being moved over the 544 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,720 off season, Kobe White, Io, Nicolo Vujovic, and Lonzo Ball. 545 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna go over. I think Vucevic and Lonso 546 00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:08,759 are possibly going to get traded, and Io is not 547 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,839 someone who I'm like. 548 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,039 Speaker 1: That's you know, we're talking about Raptors packages Lonzo and 549 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,119 vouch for. I don't know what the money is, Like, 550 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,119 are you sending perl out in that or would you 551 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,720 prefer to send Barrett and then some compensation. That's an 552 00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:20,799 interesting trade. 553 00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:25,079 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just gonna let the listeners know. I'm recording 554 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:26,880 this at one am. That's why I'm turning into a 555 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,000 fifteen year old. But I definitely want once a ball 556 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,240 on the Raptors, just so they have digg and balls, 557 00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:35,599 Like we need to meet that, we need that, we 558 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,119 need that so bad. 559 00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: But they need to acquire they need to sign the 560 00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:42,519 Angelo so that they actually have balls. Plural. 561 00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: Oh that's true, plural. Yeah, you're right, you're right. 562 00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:46,559 Speaker 1: Or they could trade for LaMelo if they really want 563 00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:48,559 to the Angelo seems like he might be more available. 564 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,039 Speaker 2: Why not Dick and balls. 565 00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be great. 566 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: We need that, Yeah, we need that. I love that though. 567 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,079 Speaker 1: I think that's what their off season needs to be about. 568 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,880 Is because they have in vouch In Collins In Kevin Hurder, 569 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,200 even Io Desumoon, Javon Carter. But they're just smaller size. 570 00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:07,279 They have a lot of flexibility moving forward. So I 571 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:10,519 think the priority for them is to one, don't ruin 572 00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:13,680 that flexibility by overpaying Josh Giddy, like by having that 573 00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:16,000 money spill onto next year. Like again, if he's at 574 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,400 twenty million, sure, if we're talking thirty thirty four million 575 00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:23,599 or something, just ridiculous. No. And then be opportunistic though 576 00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:26,279 if you're gonna because honestly, I don't know if they 577 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:28,200 need that flex they don't need as much flexibility as 578 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,799 they're about to be lined up for. But be opportunistic. 579 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,359 Can you send out these expiring contracts for money that 580 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,480 a team might not want and you're getting some first 581 00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:39,480 round compensation or a young player flyer, and then preserve 582 00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:42,000 some of your flexibility so that you can continue to 583 00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:44,880 do what other teams have done. I think the Wizards 584 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,079 have done an excellent job of this, whereas they've been 585 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:51,079 creative with how they're taking on veterans and contracts. Look 586 00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:53,359 at what they did with them Sean Holmes last year. 587 00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:55,799 They tacked on an extra year so that they could 588 00:29:55,799 --> 00:29:58,920 lower his number a little bit last season. Now you 589 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,920 have this rounding down, this thirteen million dollar non guaranteed 590 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,079 salary that you can guarantee for the full amount and 591 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,720 moves an expiring contract or for whatever amount you need 592 00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:11,640 to complete a trade to make the math work. This 593 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:14,599 is what the Bulls need to start doing, and they 594 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,519 have just they've you know, it's interesting they've nailed some 595 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,720 identifications of talent when you look at Bouzelli's and Kobe 596 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,640 White and Ioja soon move. Even the Lonzo Ball trade, 597 00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:27,440 remember people panned and again he got injured, but like 598 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,799 when he came over, that made a lot of sense. 599 00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:34,359 They've missed on their bigger swings. The Patrick Williams at 600 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,119 number four, that atrocity of a Voots trade. Jalen Smith 601 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,359 was a good just oh like that's admittedly like they 602 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,240 hit a double on that or whatever. They've never mastered 603 00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:47,039 getting the big things right. The Alex Crusoe for Josh 604 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:49,119 Getty swap. And that's why you can't trust them to 605 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,319 get the Josh Getty contract right. You can't trust them 606 00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:55,920 to do anything that we just laid out. Trade Kobe White, 607 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,559 preserve flexibility, capitalize on that flexibility. It's if I'm Bulls fan, 608 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,599 like I'm pretty and by the way the extensions given out, 609 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,720 I don't really have a problem with Billy Donovan because 610 00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:07,359 it's what else is he supposed to do with this 611 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:10,680 roster is an uninspiring a little bit sure, but the 612 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,680 extending the front office it's and again I don't even 613 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,759 blame ak for this specifically, this is an ownership problem. 614 00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:20,200 You laid it out at the top. If you're a fan, 615 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,079 I don't know how you trust the bull Like, how 616 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:25,200 are you just on board or trust that there's better 617 00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:28,039 days not just around the corner, but on that long 618 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,480 term horizon. You can't. But I think if you're looking 619 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,400 for hope or silver linings, the signals need to be 620 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,960 given this off season with everything we just talked about, 621 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,359 where if they move Kobe White, because when they moved 622 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,359 Zach Lavine, we both agreed they placed too much stock 623 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,160 and getting their own pickback just given the way the 624 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,039 protection was, but it was sort of like, oh, okay, 625 00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:49,799 like the bigger picture is sort of being prioritized here. 626 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,759 If you go through this off season and like you're 627 00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:55,839 not using these expiring contracts to like help get assets, 628 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,720 or if you're not moving on from guys that you 629 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,319 have no business paying or that are going to leave 630 00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:03,680 after next season, that's just a further red flag. And 631 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,119 so if you're a Bulls fan, I think you're just 632 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,240 looking for a harbinger of something, anything that shows this 633 00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:15,839 franchise is operating with the smallest, faintest semblance of forethought. 634 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 2: And well I don't think they are for two specific reasons. 635 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,240 Well one reason, but it's two split into two. 636 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,599 Speaker 1: The logo on their jersey. 637 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that too. No, this is a team 638 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,359 that rarely trades. I mean we often go a year 639 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,799 and sometimes even two years between trades, like any trade 640 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,680 within the Bulls. This is also an organization that doesn't 641 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,799 want to build through the draft. So that means you're 642 00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:52,559 taking two out of the three possible roster construction tools 643 00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:55,759 out of the equation. You're basically saying, I'm going to 644 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,240 try to build a contender, not just with one arm 645 00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:03,359 on my back. But both arms and one leg. And 646 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,279 it's that is what just completely infuriates me as an 647 00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:12,039 analyst when teams that and this isn't just the Bulls, 648 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,319 like the heat, the Miami heat frustrates me to no 649 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,279 end because oh, we'll never rebuild, like, oh, we'll always 650 00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,319 try to win. There's always going to be like a 651 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,319 natural tipping point at some point, at some time where 652 00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:25,519 you're going to have to face facts and say, look, 653 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,000 we just don't have more juice left, we don't have 654 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:32,359 any more like flexibility left. It's time to start over. 655 00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:35,599 The Bucks all very very soon, if not already this year, 656 00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:40,079 are like they're are entering into an existential crisis. So 657 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,119 but the fact is the Bulls who have had so many, 658 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,960 so many opportunities to actually go back and say, all right, 659 00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:52,880 let's utilize the draft. Hey, let's utilize these trade assets 660 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,359 that we have, some of which are worth two, maybe 661 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,079 even three first round draft picks, they sit on them 662 00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:02,400 because don't really deal with trades. They go into the 663 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,640 draft and they're like, oh, we're not gonna trade up, 664 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,680 We're just gonna take whoever. And it's probably probably gonna 665 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,599 be between eleven and fifteen. It's the passivity of it, 666 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:17,440 all of them refusing to look outside of free agency sightings. 667 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,599 They're they're acting as if they're entering the summer of 668 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:25,199 two thousand and one and not twenty twenty five. And 669 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,679 that is historically what's been their problem. They're always behind 670 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,239 the curve. And I realize that I sound like a 671 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,599 guy who's just piling on and shitting on them for 672 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:37,639 no reason. Look, everything i'm saying here is actually true. 673 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:41,679 I'm not trying to paint them more negative just for 674 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,519 the hell of it. I have no interest in that. 675 00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:48,000 I'm an analyst. But this is a team that fails 676 00:34:48,039 --> 00:34:52,599 to recognize their own advantages at almost every single turn. 677 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:58,440 And when you refuse to do what is historically been 678 00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:01,480 proven as the right way to construct a team, and 679 00:35:01,599 --> 00:35:04,280 also when you have so many teams around the league 680 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,880 who do it and do it well, and you're left 681 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,679 with that mindset of going, huh, well, good luck to them, 682 00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:12,159 We're not gonna do that, then you are going to 683 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,039 let those moments pass you by again and again and again. 684 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,039 So in terms of your question, why should Bulls fans 685 00:35:19,079 --> 00:35:23,280 be optimistic, I'm sorry, but they shouldn't. They shouldn't. There 686 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,840 is no reason for them to be. And I hate 687 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,440 to say that because I don't want to take a 688 00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:31,559 joyment away from fans. If the if fans love to 689 00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:34,880 see Josh Giddy, you know, put up triple doubles in 690 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,800 meaningless games and hope that he's the future, good on you. 691 00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:43,840 That's great, but you should be aware that that's not 692 00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,800 going to be a thing. Like not the triple doubles, 693 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,920 that those are probably gonna be a thing. But if 694 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,440 you think that he's gonna turn into like a franchise 695 00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,920 leader and he's gonna win you fifty five games and 696 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,719 you're gonna find yourself in the finals where he snakes 697 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,559 the pick and roll and like pulls up for key 698 00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:04,519 Midti and win shod the title. No, just know that's 699 00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:05,880 a dream scenario. 700 00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: I'm with everything you basically said, And I think that's 701 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,880 why if you are, because I do believe that, like, 702 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,639 franchises can change, but when ownership is staying the same, 703 00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:17,960 it's very difficult. What you're looking for is any of 704 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,440 like any of the things that we said should be done. 705 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,599 If they get done, it's okay, Like maybe they're considering 706 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,960 some of these slight changes. And you had said something 707 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,719 we were recording something else that made me think, like 708 00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:31,800 you would be a really good signal, or maybe it's 709 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,960 terrifying because it could be cut both ways. If you 710 00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:37,599 just said to the Sixers, take your pick of all 711 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,639 our expiring contracts to make the math work, we will 712 00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:43,840 give you twelve plus those expiring contracts for number three 713 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,159 and Joel Embiid. Yeah, that would be something where it's okay. 714 00:36:49,199 --> 00:36:50,760 Are the Bulls doing it if they think Joell and 715 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,800 Beid's gonna win them the title next year? Or are 716 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,519 they doing it because oh the number three pick, we 717 00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:58,679 think Ace Bailey or VJ. Edgecomb is just the guy 718 00:36:58,880 --> 00:36:59,960 that we can start to build her. 719 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: You and I would do it for the picks. 720 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: They would do it, and maybe the Sixers would do 721 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,239 it if it's Paul George too like instead of Joelle 722 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,039 Embiide like, whichever one you take your pick. 723 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 2: Right right, One final point, you and I said, well, 724 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,440 we would record for twenty minutes. 725 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,519 Speaker 1: I'm putting this one on You's fair, I'll take it. 726 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 2: This is actually a question for you because this is 727 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,840 something that I This is a question I could ask 728 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,639 the lot as well, especially from my Danish audience, and 729 00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:29,320 it's one that I keep like spinning in my head 730 00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:31,480 whenever the subject of the Bulls come up as well. 731 00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:40,599 Do you think the franchise itself even understands like the 732 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,000 obvious benefits that it has also historically and from a 733 00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:48,719 branting perspective, and like from an international perspective, like this 734 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,880 is still one of the most well known sports franchises 735 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,559 of all time because of Michael and Scottie and everyone there. 736 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,800 Patrick Williams, Yeah, Patrick Williams, this is a team that 737 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,199 should be so far more attractive to play for than 738 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,079 what they are, and they never seem to understand the 739 00:38:11,119 --> 00:38:13,599 benefit Like they play this as if they're a mom 740 00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:17,480 and pop shop. Oh, we don't want any drama. It's fine, 741 00:38:17,559 --> 00:38:20,320 Like we'll just play it easily if we go, like 742 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,400 we just wanted a small profit margin, that's fine whatever. 743 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,960 Oh and it's the Bulls. They always want a big 744 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,719 profit margin. But my point is they don't act like 745 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,239 they're a big like a big energy team, right like 746 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,679 the Lake Kris and Knicks, the Celtics, Like, they don't 747 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,000 embrace their history in that way. They don't use it 748 00:38:42,039 --> 00:38:45,440 as an asset. They are not aggressive. I like, are 749 00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:50,159 you of the belief that they could change internally and 750 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,039 like become a more attractive team if they actually embrace that. 751 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,159 Speaker 1: Yes, but I think what the problem is a lot 752 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:03,440 of the factors you laid out are why fans still 753 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,119 pay attention and attend the games to where some of 754 00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:10,000 these other franchises couldn't get away with decades of just 755 00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:13,039 sort of futility and decades might be overstating it. They 756 00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:15,719 had prime Derek Rose at one point, like they're fairly relevant, 757 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,280 but because they have that historical cachet and it's just 758 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,800 one of the most loyal fan bases in the game, 759 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,880 and like they have the international recognition, they're sort of 760 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,320 still coasting on the coattails of all that, And so. 761 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 2: There's any sort of they totally are and. 762 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: So it's that, doesn't that Do you think that that 763 00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:37,639 if the Bulls change, Yes, I agree, they could capitalize 764 00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:39,800 more on all of that. But do you think that 765 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,360 all of that built up goodwill or appeal or cachet, 766 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,440 whatever you want to call it, is almost doing them 767 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,320 a disservice because they have no reason as a business 768 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:50,159 model to change. 769 00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 2: Oh that's a good point. Yeah, No, that's a really 770 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,159 good point. Honestly, don't make good. 771 00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: Time, don't answer shots, sir. 772 00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:59,119 Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's really I hadn't. I 773 00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:02,760 hadn't thought about that specific perspective before it. But that's 774 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,079 very true. Like it might just be we're satisfied with this, 775 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,639 like we don't need to apply ourselves where. I am 776 00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:12,639 of the mindset that if you went out and invested 777 00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:17,960 more in you know, proper coaching staffs, training staffs, what 778 00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:21,480 have you scouting staffs, because the Bulls historically are being 779 00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:25,000 run as one of the shortest staffed teams in the NBA. 780 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,159 Speaker 1: Like if you especially now that the Lakers are going 781 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,000 to be owned by like not not a mom and 782 00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:31,280 pop shop anymore. 783 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,199 Speaker 2: Right exactly? So, I mean if they changed their ways 784 00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:38,000 and actually were able to squeeze out wins more by 785 00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:41,679 embracing analytics, by by being more thorough in the draft, 786 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,880 by approaching new age elements, and they suddenly became, you know, 787 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,800 a year to year fifty win team, I would personally 788 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,639 think they would stand to benefit more even financially from that. 789 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,280 I think they would have a more But but why 790 00:40:56,639 --> 00:40:59,960 if it's all about the Benjamins, then I don't understand 791 00:41:00,039 --> 00:41:01,639 and why they're rejecting that notion. 792 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,199 Speaker 1: I think when even though they're run like a mom 793 00:41:05,199 --> 00:41:07,440 and pop shop, when you're operating something at this level, 794 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:10,280 there is an inherent lack of patience and I can 795 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,000 liken it. I'm sure our listeners are tired of hearing this, 796 00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:16,199 but like, look at the state of sports media. Yeah, 797 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,719 if you want more in depth coverage, like we've decided 798 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,800 just because this is what certain data says about. Everything 799 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,239 has to be fake trades, everything has to be short 800 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,400 when it's written, or it has to be short digestible 801 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,559 video content on shorts or these are the debates we 802 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:31,920 need to have on TV because it has the rage 803 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,280 bait on social media. There aren't outlets that are big 804 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,440 enough that can stomach change enough to get to a 805 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,000 point where there's a payoff for all that you're doing 806 00:41:41,039 --> 00:41:43,440 to be in that case, it would be promoting more 807 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,000 critical thought. But in this case, it's to get to 808 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,960 a point where you're a flagship franchise, not on reputation, 809 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,960 but on what you're actually doing now on the court. 810 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,360 And they just I don't think everything is about It's 811 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,199 like in a year to year, month over month type 812 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,480 of thing, is that no one takes the longer view anymore. 813 00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:06,079 And I think it also in part like windows in 814 00:42:06,119 --> 00:42:08,440 the NBA are so fleeting that I could kind of 815 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,159 see the appeal as a business person of just like, yeah, 816 00:42:11,159 --> 00:42:12,800 I'm just gonna squeeze as much juice out of this 817 00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:15,360 team each year and like capitalize off that good will 818 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,000 that's already there. But like, we're not at the point 819 00:42:18,039 --> 00:42:21,599 where it's the NFL and there's a team that could 820 00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:25,320 be two and fifteen one season, comes back and is 821 00:42:25,639 --> 00:42:27,760 thirteen and four the next and wins the Super Bowl 822 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,320 or something like the NBA. There's still there's still a trajectory, 823 00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:35,480 whether it's you know, the builds last a little longer. 824 00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:37,000 And by the way, that's the other thing that should 825 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,519 be frustrating to fans is that you could rebuild and 826 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:42,440 it's not You're not gonna turn The fan base at 827 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,000 this point is probably eager for it, but like all 828 00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:47,599 the safeguards that are in place to like ensure that 829 00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,039 your fans are still showing up, that should kind of 830 00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:52,960 prove that, hey, we could go through in actual rebuild 831 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,880 to get to a point that it's better. But you 832 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,079 need I think so much of it, and it doesn't 833 00:42:57,119 --> 00:42:59,119 just apply to running a basketball team comes down to 834 00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:04,079 the stomach for experimentation and suffering shorter term losses so 835 00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:06,679 that you can get to these longer term games. And 836 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,960 I think we've seen it with other franchises shout out 837 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,480 to the Sacramento Kings. We've seen it with the Knicks 838 00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:13,679 until like this era that they're in, like there's or 839 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,199 not all organizations are willing to do that, and none 840 00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:20,679 of it ever makes sense. And the Bulls just aren't 841 00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:22,920 being harmed by it as much as some other teams 842 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,000 would be financially speaking. 843 00:43:26,039 --> 00:43:29,159 Speaker 2: I mean, I get it. It's and it's so depressing 844 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,559 because I honestly think and it's not because I was 845 00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:35,800 a Bulls fan for twenty two years, like I do 846 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:42,119 think there's so many fans of that team that are nice, patient, 847 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,559 very very smart, like they put themselves into the like 848 00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:50,599 the minutia of the NBA and of team construction and whatnot, 849 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,480 and all those people have more or less voiced what 850 00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:55,679 you just said, like if you go through rebuild, if 851 00:43:55,679 --> 00:43:59,760 you start to build through you know, so called proper channels, 852 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,000 we will we will show up, we will buy tickets 853 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:08,239 to watch your seven seventeen win product. And yet the 854 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:15,239 Bulls keep telling them, no, we will stay as as 855 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,880 depressing as ever, and it almost feels as though they're 856 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,519 key there. They keep doing it just despite fans. At 857 00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:26,000 this point they're not, but it does there. 858 00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 1: I mean, they're clear, they understand. I go back to 859 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,840 the like, we're coming full circle here. We opened with 860 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,440 the extensions of the front off like AK and Billy 861 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,719 dont like the fact that the AK, like that's supposed 862 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,079 to be a celebratory extension when you extend a front 863 00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:41,679 office or even a coach that this is for a 864 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,360 job well done. They know, they absolutely know how the 865 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,360 fan base feels, and the fact that they continue to 866 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,159 just like fly in the face of that is akin 867 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,400 to shitting on the fan base in my opinion. So 868 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,039 that's where they're at. And look, if any of this 869 00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:58,760 seems too harsh, I will believe that the Bulls have 870 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,719 changed when I've seen it, and I'm not talking about 871 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,400 one move, but like sustainable change, and they have to 872 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,360 earn that, and we just don't have any evidence that 873 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,159 they're gonna travel down that course. 874 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:10,679 Speaker 2: Correct. 875 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: This offseason is all about Chicago ensuring we get dick 876 00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:16,119 and balls in Toronto. I think that's how we can 877 00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:17,000 nuts shell this right? 878 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,559 Speaker 2: I love that? Yep. See why don't I really have 879 00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:24,079 an olden fans? That is my content right there? More? 880 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,760 Speaker 1: Can you tell our fine listeners, watchers, subscribers where they 881 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,280 can find you and all the work that you put out. 882 00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:32,079 Speaker 2: Yes, you can find me over at Yahoo Sports. You 883 00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:34,639 can find me at Forbes. You can find me at 884 00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:37,480 the NBA podcast and if you speak Danish you can 885 00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:40,320 find me the breadth of podcast called Plus Repeat. And 886 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,039 if you're on Blue Sky, I'm there at MS Change. 887 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 1: Until next time. As always, eat the shout out to 888 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,800 the one, the only, the player who will never suit 889 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,639 up to the Chicago Bulls because he has a borrel compass, 890 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,920 Mister Frank Nila Kena