Speaker 1: What is up? Felsic goes, I am dam Valley coming
at you with the one the only Mort Jensen of
the NBA podcast, fame, of the Yahoo Sports, fame, of
Forbes fame, and of Only Fans celebrity. He has agreed
to help us finish chugging along with our off season
look Ahead series, which we are very appreciative to him for.
The Chicago Bulls are getting the hardwood knocks. The off
season look Ahead treatment, not preview, not outlook. These are
look aheads. They're fancier, they're smantier, they are offseason lookheads.
More before we belly flop in to all things Chicago Bulls,
how the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing very very well until I'd learned just now
that we're talking about the Chicago Bulls. So we'll see.
Speaker 1: I lured you here under the false pretenses of we
were going to talk about the Charlotte Hornets, and you
were just all excited. Little did you know that look
Ahead already went up, and so I tricked you, duped you.
It's onto the Bulls. Let us begin the core question
here more I think, is so what's the plan they
It's a cliche question, but They've given extensions to Billy Donovan,
which is probably fine, not necessarily inspirational, but fine, as
well as our tourists Karnosovas. And that's not fine. And
I'm gonna tell you why it's not fine. It wasn't publicized.
It kind of leaked after the fact, and anytime that happens,
it kind of proves that the organization knows it's not
gonna be received well. And if you're embarrassed by extending
your front office, you probably need to look in. We're
in wonder is there a problem with the front office
or the mandates that we've given them? So I just
before we dive in extensions, cap sheet, the whole nine,
what's the plan here? Moore?
Speaker 2: Oh, there isn't one, Dan, there isn't one, and there
never has been outside of twenty twenty one when that
fell together. Because everything kind of relied on the health
of Launcher Ball. It seems stop planning. Generally speaking, they
have not for anything over the past four years. Everything
is just happening happenstance because this is an organization that
is flat out lacy bad at what they do, from
ownership down to management. Like this is a team that finally, finally,
after decades of being behind the curve, changed their shot
profile dramatically, started leaning into three pointers, starting leaning into
shot optimization and shot profile optimization at the year where
Cooper Flagg was in the draft, which okay, fair enough,
like better late than ever, weird timing, but better late
than ever. And then they fired that their shooting coach,
Peter Patten, who apparently was the main architect of this
entire shooting movement optimized shot profile movement, honestly because he
wasn't inclined to agree a whole lot with our tourist Karnishovas,
which again speaks to one of the worst habits that
is consistently present within the Chicago Bulls front office, which
is they align themselves with yes men and people who
have no fucking clue what they're doing. If someone smart
speaks up, you're out of the organization. And that is
a common theme, not just from within the organization, but
if they have beat writers or someone else who asks
them critical questions, all lo and Behold credentials are being pulled.
This is hands down the most embarrassing sports franchise in
North America at president maybe even the broader world. When
it comes to sports, it's a sham of a franchise
and organization and everything should burn to the ground, from
ownership down to the last ticket salesman in the office.
Speaker 1: And with that, will you with the shout out to
Frank neil kea and apologies Jarred out. I wonder how
many listeners we lost right there. But let's look, you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Catch you though.
Speaker 1: You think so like because I think are smart, I'm
not fans of very smart. I think there are a
ton of Bulls fans that are very smart. But I
guess the most vocal, at least in our comments section
are always just you guys, have no idea what you're
talking about, like Patrick Williams of the second Coming of
Kawhi Leonard type stuff. So those people have probably already
tuned out. But let's start. Let's let's dig in to
their offseason vitals. Very great little monologue from you, though,
and it's actually terrifying how spot on it was. So
the Bulls are going to enter the summer around about
fifty three million beneath the luxury tax and about sixty
million beneath the first apron. This includes a cap hold
for the number twelve pick. However, it does not include
a cap hold for trade Jones or more notably Josh Giddy.
You will get to him in a second. Regardless, the
Bulls should have no issue accessing their non tax payer
mid level exception of fourteen point one million. I look
forward to their excuse as to why they didn't use it,
and it will be so that they could use it
the trade deadline, only not to use it at the
trade deadline when they cheap out and they have all
of their own first moving forward that they could trade.
They also have a Blazer's twenty twenty six. First, it's
a lot of protected through twenty twenty eight. If it
does not convey it'll just turn into a second. That's
an interesting one because it's you can now kind of
see maybe not next year, but twenty twenty seven, twenty
twenty eight, that might be a pick that conveyed. So
in theory they have an extra first round pick to trade.
Any notes on that stuff before we get into some
of the roster decisions.
Speaker 2: You you basically put it out as well as as
you could, So, yeah, those are just fact based. What
can I say? You're just lining out facts, Josh.
Speaker 1: Kiddy though restricted free agent? How much is he worth?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: I just want to lay out what his max could be.
This is for reference, not an endorsement. He can get.
Four years and one hundred and seventy three point two
million or five years and two hundred and twenty four
point two million would be his maxes. He could also
get if they want to give him. You know the
language of if you make all MBA, you get the
extra max he could get. I think it would be
five years and two hundred ninety six million for anyone
who cares about that. Now, this is the part that
we need your input on. There was the reporting from
Mark stein over at the Steinline suggests that Giddy or
execs around the league believe Giddy is seeking something in
the ballpark of five years and one hundred and fifty million,
and that he is expected to get it. So the
core question here more how much is Josh Giddy worth?
Speaker 2: So on your four year max not proposal, but outline
there it says four years, one and seventy three point
two million dollars. Let's just take the one away from
that number.
Speaker 1: I knew this was going to be spicy from you.
This is look he hit his threes is a reasonable clip?
This year?
Speaker 2: He asked, no, No, he hit his open threes. That's
at a reasonable clip.
Speaker 1: My point was going to be, defenses don't change the
way that they're guarding the bulls because Josh Giddy is
hitting threes. And I think what's even more concerning for me,
the vision is there, the floater might come around, maybe
the finishing gets a little better. What's more concerning for
me is that defensively, he almost needs to be a
four or just someone who's always on, like the most
stationary perimeter player possible, and that has inherent limitations. And
I think it's even more restricting when you have so
many other fucking guards on your roster. Io Deasunmu, Kobe White,
Lonzo Ball, Javon Carter's got a player option. I don't
know what, Like if you told me they signed him
for five and one hundred four and eighty, I don't
I probably wouldn't bat an eye. And relative to the
salary cap, we're talking between fifteen and twenty percent, I
don't think that's backbreaking. If you're gonna go over that,
I question what the logic is there? What is your
end game as a team, What is your end game
even if you view him as the asset. And here's
my final issue, and this dates back to the I
mean what they did with Patrick Williams last year. I'm
not advocating for players to make less than they could,
but the way restricted free agency is set up, the
Bulls are going to be bidding against absolutely positively nobody.
The Nets aren't giving Josh Giddy and all. I will
be floored if the Nets give Josh giddeon off a
sheet yep, So why are you giving him five years
and one hundred And this isn't just the Bulls, by
the way. We've seen this with other teams where they
just pay rather than have their own guy. Their guys
go out and set the market. That's great. I want
every player to get paid as much as possible. Organizationally speaking, though,
it doesn't make any sense to do that, and so
there's a lot of smoke and mirrors this time of year.
But if Josh Giddy gets thirty million dollars a year
or more on average, it's my belief that that will
age into one of the single worst contracts in the NBA.
Speaker 2: The entire question you have to ask yourself is this
The Oklahoma City Thunder are currently in the NBA Finals,
one win away from potentially winning the whole shipping wait to.
Speaker 1: Day on this podcast, which definitely will not be coming
out until after the finals.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, Well, regardless of whether they win or not,
how many minutes would Josh Giddy average for the Thunder
of this series.
Speaker 1: Well, didn't we kind of see it last year in
the playoffs. He would be fewer minutes than he averaged
during last year's postseason.
Speaker 2: And presumably lower than ten, probably less than ten. It'll
be you know, he'll be end of of rotation caliber minutes.
It wouldn't be starting minutes. Maybe it wouldn't even be
close to starting minutes. Actually wouldn't even be wrote like
fully flat rotation minutes. He is not someone who impacts
winning to that extent. He had a fantastic run in March,
and he did get better at certain elements, like him
realizing that he's six foot eight and can actually get
to the foul line. I will give him that, because
he started realizing, oh, I need to go downhill and
use the fact that I'm taller than most people guarding me,
and he actually began drawing fouls something he was completely
inepdad for the first three years of his career. So
that's cool, that's positive. He still gets wildly outplayed defensively
and moreover, even if you do say, okay, Josh Giddy,
with all the warts and all, we're still gonna give
the ball to you, like you're gonna have the ball
in your hands, You're gonna be our league guard. What
the fuck is the upside there? Like, what are you
trying to achieve? Because if you're giving him thirty million
a year and you're basically hoping that he'll ross stats
his way to an All Star nod, which I don't
think so, because voters are smart for the most part,
what is the endgame? What are you trying to achieve?
He obviously isn't much of an All ballplayer. He doesn't
bend defenses. He can't overwhelming you defensively. Well, he can't,
but that's in a negative sense that he just has
this negative ripple effect that everyone gets confused to where
they are. And you said something extremely interesting in that
he should guard for it force power forwards over at Jahu.
I think in the fall I wrote an article saying
Josh Kiddy's not a point guard. He's a power forward.
I stand by that to this day because you can
get over the shooting issues slash concerns if you have
more capable guards or wings on the floor with him,
because the bulls kind of insist that he plays the
one they're looking at pairing him with forwards and wings.
He is a wing, he is a forward. He is
not a lead guard. Like he can play a playmaking
for who takes these opportunistic three pointers. Now, that would
be an interesting scenario because then you're not relying on
him to be like the core guy who sets everything
up and like you're heliocentric floor leader. Now you're saying
you're in the second or Churchy or a role where
you're reacting to what the lead ball handler is doing.
That I like a lot more. That would be a
scenario where I could see Gid he even have more
success than he did this year. Otherwise, if you're insistent
upon placing him at the point guard position and just
letting him have carte blanche, you're fucking yourself over in
a way that is almost biblical.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I think he in theory could have more
value because the thunder are just a different beast altogether,
he has more value to a team like the Bulls
when you want players who can eat innings in the
regular season. But if you're aiming for something bigger, better,
you don't go into this like five years and one
hundred and fifty million dollars, like that's still borderline like
cornerstone money. And I just don't think he's that. I
think there's a place where you outlined it. There's a
place room in the NBA, But it's viewing him as
like a primary driver of everything for you. I wouldn't
support it. Like again, the price point for me is
like I probably max out at twenty on an average
annual value, and even that.
Speaker 2: Can get to twenty. I can get to twenty.
Speaker 1: You can.
Speaker 2: You can talk young.
Speaker 1: Maybe he improved, but yeah, I just it's just on
if he ends up getting a thirty million or more
a year, that yeah, like you said, a failure of
biblical proportions, not a failure of biblical proportions. If anything,
it's a win. But it's now become a problem for
the Bulls. Kobe White's extension eligible the contract he signed
was it three years and thirty six, three years and
thirty three whatever.
Speaker 2: It was a couple of years ago, forty.
Speaker 1: Six, great deal, one of the best in the NBA.
Ye problem is now in an extension. They can't give
him more than four years and eighty point eight million dollars.
You offer it, and if he accepts it, that'll probably
make any contract Josh Giddy signs look that much worse.
But he's not going to accept it going into free
agency again. Just as a reference, his four year max
from the Bulls next year two hundred and twenty eight
point six, his five year max from the Bulls two
hundred and ninety six, and then a four year max
from another team two hundred and nineteen point four. I
think you can sit here and say, well, they don't
have to worry worry about too much. No one's gonna
max him out one it takes one team, and it's
not just about another team maxing him out. But he's
an unrestricted free agent. Are the Bulls even if he's
getting sub max money, do they have to include a
fifth year? Like? Does he get the ogn andob deal
five years, two hundred and twelve point five million, that's like,
maybe that's fine for a team. The Bulls are not
that team where they're at in their competitive life cycle,
and so it's I throw it to you. It's just
if you're the bulls. Because this is the other part
of it. Trading him is the probably correct call. But
his value is already like on the downswing, not as
a player, but because he only has a year left
on his contract, won't extend it that team. His next
team has to take it to free agency. They should
have moved him last offseason or this past this past
winner at the trade deadline. Now that you can't like
the question here is twofold. Do you just keep him
at this point because you're not gonna get a lot
for him? Or do you just move him and then
what's the minimum that you'd accept for him?
Speaker 2: Oh man, you're playing all the mort hits today. I
love it. Look they fucked up already by not moving
him earlier. They just had this situation with Alex Caruso.
They literally just went through it and they ended up
getting like ten cents on the dollar for him by
just killing Josh gidding Back.
Speaker 1: That one's worse because he ended up signing the extension
for which he still would have been elegibra.
Speaker 2: Well that he signed that extension because he realized that's
a place where basketball actually wants to live. Yes, so
I'm on fire today, sir. Here's sitting with Kobe White. Right,
This dude is a competitive guy. Like I know every
NBA player is that, but he is right up there
among the best in terms of like his competitive fire.
There is not like you would have to almost perversely
overpay him for him to consider return to the Bulls,
Like why would you as the Bulls just keep him
and hope to retain him a year from now in
free agency, Because here's the thing. He can go out
there on the open market where there are going to
be a significant portion of teams that can offer him
similar compensation level, a much more serious approach to winning,
just a team.
Speaker 1: Construction offer him hope.
Speaker 2: They can offer him hope, Yes, they they can tell
him we have you now. Like you know the thing
when when you're like putting, you're you're getting people out
of burning buildings, like firefighters are getting out that they
were covering them not in towels. But this glitzy thing,
that's what a new organization could do with Kobe White.
They've just rescued him from a burning building. They're gonna
put the towel around him, they're gonna give him something
to drink, and they're gonna look him deep in the
eye and they're gonna say, we've got you. Now you're safe.
You're safe. Okay, incredible, that's where we are. So why
would the bulls imagine in any way, shape or form
that they act as a genuine threat threat to signing him? Really, like,
why would they think that they're actually in the picture here?
They should trade him right now for whatever the fuck
they can get, because they already missed their window and
they they are so incompetent when it comes to asset management.
Caruso now Kobe, or sorry Caruso last year Kobe now
And frankly also, Kobe is in the exact same situation
as Iodosumu, so like he's a secondary situation of this
same thing got him at a great deal, didn't move
him when times when the time was to do so,
Like it's so bad, But I will give the bulls this,
Dan im like, unbelievably enough, I will give the bulls this.
I do think that one rule or extension limit does
screw over teams to do a good job because we
can't say, without a shoutow of doubt, the Bulls did
well in re signing Kobe White, Like they got him
at a great, great deal, one of the best in
the league. So that's also a shame that the league
and the CPA can thus say, hey, you know what,
you did a great a bit of business there. Now
we're gonna screw you. That's also tough, Like, that's not great.
You want to be be able to retain your guys.
But the rules are what they are, and the Bulls
just don't understand how to make the most of them,
and as such they wasted their opportunity. Now they have
to flip him. And you're asking me, what's the minimum
you'd accept, I don't know, a protected first.
Speaker 1: Wow, because yeah. I Mean what's interesting too, is like
two of the teams that we liked him the most
for are just kind of off the board in Orlando
and San Antonio when you look at what san Antonio
is there all.
Speaker 2: But there's a team that's entered the conversation, sir, and
they're laying in the finals right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, see, we talked about we talked about him with okaysee,
I think leading into the maybe it was me and
grant that they put Yeah, I mean that offense. That's
and I actually think that you posted this on social
media the Thunder. We're recording this before the finals are over.
The Thunder could win the title. And you can't sit
there and think that the offense is just going to
be okay moving forward.
Speaker 2: Correct. They need they need another score, and specifically they
need a scorer who can stretch the floor like so
many of their guys right now in Oksee are just
not hitting their threes to the point where you have
to get someone in another name. I also pitched for them.
I know we're talking about the bulls. Is Malik Beastly
by the way. I would love him there, like just
flying under the radar off of an everyone. But Kobe
White is another player. You can get him because one
the salary just makes a ton of sense, Like what's
the at twelve point eight million?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's at like under thirteen for next one?
Speaker 2: Wonderful? Like the salary mention component can be done in
your sleep. There, that's so easy.
Speaker 1: I think with them, the problem is you're almost doing
that as either a one or could you say, a
two year rental because his next contract and then in
you know, in conjunction with J dub and Schet getting
paid and then worrying about Shay. Another team I had
thought about, like, would you do what would you do?
Vouch and Kobe White for RJ. Barrett and a first
round pick?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: I think the Bulls would say that that's not enough.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean, look again, the Bulls could say
that if they wanted to trade him at the trade
deadline or last offseason, then I would agree with them.
But like, what's the alternative right now losing him for
nothing in free agency?
Speaker 1: I would you know what, He'd be great on the
Los Angeles Clippers. I wonder if they would be able to.
I wonder if they could get because all their first
round picks, they could trade up to two first But
they're just so far off into the distance that if
I'm the Clippers, I'm kind of like, uh, that's what's
tough with them.
Speaker 2: You know what, It's just a general rule with Kobe White.
You can find twenty to twenty five teams where we go. Oh,
he'd be great there because Kobe, I think, is going
to be like the next pluck and playguard who is
just like you can pretty much piece him in everywhere.
Speaker 1: Oh, Minnesota beyond that'd be great.
Speaker 2: Think about it. He can play off lead guards, he
can be sort of a lead guard himself. He can
he can initiate picking rolls off the dribble. He's a
great catch and shoot guy. This guy will fit into
virtually every single offense on Earth.
Speaker 1: You think they should go You think the King should
go back to the Bulls. Well, you look Kobe White
in there.
Speaker 2: I mean they're already gonna trade bonus for boots and
stuff because right so, uh look, there's so many things
that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So to wrap it up quickly, we agree he's not
going to get an extension because he's worth way more
than that. Do you think that he is on the
Chicago Bulls at the start of the season.
Speaker 2: What you're really asking me is, do I trust the
Bulls to do the right thing?
Speaker 1: Do you think the Bulls will trade whether it's before
the season or by the trade deadline? Do you think
that they will actually move him?
Speaker 2: Yes, like at the latest at the trade deadline. EI,
I do think that maybe the online pressure or maybe
ownership suddenly has a good day and actually does the
smart thing by going to management saying Hey, look, we're
gonna need something.
Speaker 1: Some other notable extension candidates we're not gonna talk about
Javon Carter Dow and Terry Julian Phillips. Zach Collins are
also extension on. We're not going to talk about them.
The two that are semi interesting. I would assume vouch
they could extend for four years, one hundred and thirty
four point seven millions. I hope they. I hope he
gets like three years and ninety or something. That would
be the funny, be so funny. My bradition would be
that they don't extend either of these guys.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think you can. Would assume I think
you want to.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's another guy where it's going into free agency,
you should probably look at moving and I think the
problem with him though, unless it's part of a larger
construction where you're taking back money a team doesn't want.
I don't that you're not getting a first round pick
for Io Desumu. I maybe, like, I don't know, are
the Nets gonna give you one of their late twenty
picks like they get like would they do something like that?
Speaker 2: That's interesting? I hadn't thought about, like.
Speaker 1: What about he damn near fits into the he fits
into the room exception the non tax Premier. He almost
fits into the freaking mini mid level. He doesn't. So
there's like, you know, if Detroit.
Speaker 2: Happened, I have an idea, Like, so the Brooklyn Nets, right,
they can they can absorb his deal, like you'd have
to make the you know, a greats to the deal
now and then make it on July first or June thirtieth.
But they also have the twenty sixth and the twenty
seventh pick like one of those those one of those
picks for Dusumo.
Speaker 1: As the Nets. That's interesting because it's like he'd he'd
be fun there next year. But you have to view
him still as like kind of we want to we
want to pay him to stay next summer because he's
he's the type of player that's only going to help
your team. He won't ruin a tank. But I question, like,
why do you want him on your team?
Speaker 2: Like that would be about there's there's logic in the
mat this here, because let's say he plays really really
well for them, then at the twenty twenty sixth trade deadline,
although he might be like a half your rental, his
contract is so small, so meager it's like seven point
let me just double check here, seven point fine, seven
point five. So like, let's it might be a long
term investment. So the Nets give up let's say twenty seven, right,
and that's that's barely a first rounder. I gets the
late so late of a first rounder is almost possibly
can be. Now you churn up his trade value over
the course of the season. Then some se t is
like making a push. They're like, oh, we need a guard.
It's easy to match money. Maybe you actually squeeze out
an unprotected first for a team that's desperate to just
get that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're taking back some especially if they still
have cap flexibility to take exactly.
Speaker 2: So that's the Nets would have flipped twenty seven for
an unprotected first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I wonder, I don't know. Unprotected seems like,
but I guess likely. I think there's a chance that
what you're saying is like you get to summu now
for twenty seven, and then you might be able to
get the twentieth pick in next year's draft or something.
Speaker 2: It's kind of that's fair. Yeah, but like then you
then you at least go up seven picks.
Speaker 1: For Yeah, that's right. I don't have an issue with it. Yeah, yeah,
I mean I wonder if the Bulls would do that,
just knowing the Bulls. But yeah, he's just another guy
that you're probably moved given their like their competitive.
Speaker 2: Horizon longs too for that matter.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean we got to get into this, then
what is their biggest need? Like if you're looking just
talent in general, so you're not looking at like, there's
no one on this roster that makes you think twice
about getting anyone in any position. No, not at I
think I think that's fair modest. Bussel's comes closest, and
that's just like he's still not good enough for that,
and I like.
Speaker 2: Him as shit son. I will give the Bulls credit
for like or will I he fell into their lap
at eleven, like it would almost be gracious if they didn't.
Speaker 1: That was like it, No, that was like at that
point in the draft, it's always a choice.
Speaker 2: It's just it's very okay, but they chose right, So
I'll give them that. That's I love him, But I'm
not at that point where I'm willing to say, oh,
like if someone good like even better is right there,
like for example, I'm a big Colin Murray Boyles guy, right,
same like, if he's there, I'm not gonna say, oh,
we can't pick him because we have Mansus Bosella's.
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, for sure there, And I would probably
agree with you. I do think they could use if
you were to kind of like game it this way.
I think they need like wings of the future and
a center of the future. They just don't have that.
Because you could look and say, all right, maybe it's
Kobe White. He'll probably be overpaid, but sure the guard
position is set and just Modus Buzzellis is just okay,
a hybrid forward. But like if we wanted to they need,
they're kind of in a similar boat to the Utah Jazz.
They just have more. I don't even know if they
have more talent. They play in the East is really
what it is. They need a cornerstone. They don't have
that primary. I don't think Modess Buzzellis is that, and
I don't think the number twelve pick is going to
yield that either.
Speaker 2: Do they need a cornerstone? I was under the impression
they needed just like eight to ten good guys.
Speaker 1: Well then either way you're describing a team without Josh
Giddy if youel like so right right, so to look
at it this way, set the over under one point
five of these players being on being moved over the
off season, Kobe White, Io, Nicolo Vujovic, and Lonzo Ball.
Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna go over. I think Vucevic and Lonso
are possibly going to get traded, and Io is not
someone who I'm like.
Speaker 1: That's you know, we're talking about Raptors packages Lonzo and
vouch for. I don't know what the money is, Like,
are you sending perl out in that or would you
prefer to send Barrett and then some compensation. That's an
interesting trade.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just gonna let the listeners know. I'm recording
this at one am. That's why I'm turning into a
fifteen year old. But I definitely want once a ball
on the Raptors, just so they have digg and balls,
Like we need to meet that, we need that, we
need that so bad.
Speaker 1: But they need to acquire they need to sign the
Angelo so that they actually have balls. Plural.
Speaker 2: Oh that's true, plural. Yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: Or they could trade for LaMelo if they really want
to the Angelo seems like he might be more available.
Speaker 2: Why not Dick and balls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 2: We need that, Yeah, we need that. I love that though.
Speaker 1: I think that's what their off season needs to be about.
Is because they have in vouch In Collins In Kevin Hurder,
even Io Desumoon, Javon Carter. But they're just smaller size.
They have a lot of flexibility moving forward. So I
think the priority for them is to one, don't ruin
that flexibility by overpaying Josh Giddy, like by having that
money spill onto next year. Like again, if he's at
twenty million, sure, if we're talking thirty thirty four million
or something, just ridiculous. No. And then be opportunistic though
if you're gonna because honestly, I don't know if they
need that flex they don't need as much flexibility as
they're about to be lined up for. But be opportunistic.
Can you send out these expiring contracts for money that
a team might not want and you're getting some first
round compensation or a young player flyer, and then preserve
some of your flexibility so that you can continue to
do what other teams have done. I think the Wizards
have done an excellent job of this, whereas they've been
creative with how they're taking on veterans and contracts. Look
at what they did with them Sean Holmes last year.
They tacked on an extra year so that they could
lower his number a little bit last season. Now you
have this rounding down, this thirteen million dollar non guaranteed
salary that you can guarantee for the full amount and
moves an expiring contract or for whatever amount you need
to complete a trade to make the math work. This
is what the Bulls need to start doing, and they
have just they've you know, it's interesting they've nailed some
identifications of talent when you look at Bouzelli's and Kobe
White and Ioja soon move. Even the Lonzo Ball trade,
remember people panned and again he got injured, but like
when he came over, that made a lot of sense.
They've missed on their bigger swings. The Patrick Williams at
number four, that atrocity of a Voots trade. Jalen Smith
was a good just oh like that's admittedly like they
hit a double on that or whatever. They've never mastered
getting the big things right. The Alex Crusoe for Josh
Getty swap. And that's why you can't trust them to
get the Josh Getty contract right. You can't trust them
to do anything that we just laid out. Trade Kobe White,
preserve flexibility, capitalize on that flexibility. It's if I'm Bulls fan,
like I'm pretty and by the way the extensions given out,
I don't really have a problem with Billy Donovan because
it's what else is he supposed to do with this
roster is an uninspiring a little bit sure, but the
extending the front office it's and again I don't even
blame ak for this specifically, this is an ownership problem.
You laid it out at the top. If you're a fan,
I don't know how you trust the bull Like, how
are you just on board or trust that there's better
days not just around the corner, but on that long
term horizon. You can't. But I think if you're looking
for hope or silver linings, the signals need to be
given this off season with everything we just talked about,
where if they move Kobe White, because when they moved
Zach Lavine, we both agreed they placed too much stock
and getting their own pickback just given the way the
protection was, but it was sort of like, oh, okay,
like the bigger picture is sort of being prioritized here.
If you go through this off season and like you're
not using these expiring contracts to like help get assets,
or if you're not moving on from guys that you
have no business paying or that are going to leave
after next season, that's just a further red flag. And
so if you're a Bulls fan, I think you're just
looking for a harbinger of something, anything that shows this
franchise is operating with the smallest, faintest semblance of forethought.
Speaker 2: And well I don't think they are for two specific reasons.
Well one reason, but it's two split into two.
Speaker 1: The logo on their jersey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that too. No, this is a team
that rarely trades. I mean we often go a year
and sometimes even two years between trades, like any trade
within the Bulls. This is also an organization that doesn't
want to build through the draft. So that means you're
taking two out of the three possible roster construction tools
out of the equation. You're basically saying, I'm going to
try to build a contender, not just with one arm
on my back. But both arms and one leg. And
it's that is what just completely infuriates me as an
analyst when teams that and this isn't just the Bulls,
like the heat, the Miami heat frustrates me to no
end because oh, we'll never rebuild, like, oh, we'll always
try to win. There's always going to be like a
natural tipping point at some point, at some time where
you're going to have to face facts and say, look,
we just don't have more juice left, we don't have
any more like flexibility left. It's time to start over.
The Bucks all very very soon, if not already this year,
are like they're are entering into an existential crisis. So
but the fact is the Bulls who have had so many,
so many opportunities to actually go back and say, all right,
let's utilize the draft. Hey, let's utilize these trade assets
that we have, some of which are worth two, maybe
even three first round draft picks, they sit on them
because don't really deal with trades. They go into the
draft and they're like, oh, we're not gonna trade up,
We're just gonna take whoever. And it's probably probably gonna
be between eleven and fifteen. It's the passivity of it,
all of them refusing to look outside of free agency sightings.
They're they're acting as if they're entering the summer of
two thousand and one and not twenty twenty five. And
that is historically what's been their problem. They're always behind
the curve. And I realize that I sound like a
guy who's just piling on and shitting on them for
no reason. Look, everything i'm saying here is actually true.
I'm not trying to paint them more negative just for
the hell of it. I have no interest in that.
I'm an analyst. But this is a team that fails
to recognize their own advantages at almost every single turn.
And when you refuse to do what is historically been
proven as the right way to construct a team, and
also when you have so many teams around the league
who do it and do it well, and you're left
with that mindset of going, huh, well, good luck to them,
We're not gonna do that, then you are going to
let those moments pass you by again and again and again.
So in terms of your question, why should Bulls fans
be optimistic, I'm sorry, but they shouldn't. They shouldn't. There
is no reason for them to be. And I hate
to say that because I don't want to take a
joyment away from fans. If the if fans love to
see Josh Giddy, you know, put up triple doubles in
meaningless games and hope that he's the future, good on you.
That's great, but you should be aware that that's not
going to be a thing. Like not the triple doubles,
that those are probably gonna be a thing. But if
you think that he's gonna turn into like a franchise
leader and he's gonna win you fifty five games and
you're gonna find yourself in the finals where he snakes
the pick and roll and like pulls up for key
Midti and win shod the title. No, just know that's
a dream scenario.
Speaker 1: I'm with everything you basically said, And I think that's
why if you are, because I do believe that, like,
franchises can change, but when ownership is staying the same,
it's very difficult. What you're looking for is any of
like any of the things that we said should be done.
If they get done, it's okay, Like maybe they're considering
some of these slight changes. And you had said something
we were recording something else that made me think, like
you would be a really good signal, or maybe it's
terrifying because it could be cut both ways. If you
just said to the Sixers, take your pick of all
our expiring contracts to make the math work, we will
give you twelve plus those expiring contracts for number three
and Joel Embiid. Yeah, that would be something where it's okay.
Are the Bulls doing it if they think Joell and
Beid's gonna win them the title next year? Or are
they doing it because oh the number three pick, we
think Ace Bailey or VJ. Edgecomb is just the guy
that we can start to build her.
Speaker 2: You and I would do it for the picks.
Speaker 1: They would do it, and maybe the Sixers would do
it if it's Paul George too like instead of Joelle
Embiide like, whichever one you take your pick.
Speaker 2: Right right, One final point, you and I said, well,
we would record for twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: I'm putting this one on You's fair, I'll take it.
Speaker 2: This is actually a question for you because this is
something that I This is a question I could ask
the lot as well, especially from my Danish audience, and
it's one that I keep like spinning in my head
whenever the subject of the Bulls come up as well.
Do you think the franchise itself even understands like the
obvious benefits that it has also historically and from a
branting perspective, and like from an international perspective, like this
is still one of the most well known sports franchises
of all time because of Michael and Scottie and everyone there.
Patrick Williams, Yeah, Patrick Williams, this is a team that
should be so far more attractive to play for than
what they are, and they never seem to understand the
benefit Like they play this as if they're a mom
and pop shop. Oh, we don't want any drama. It's fine,
Like we'll just play it easily if we go, like
we just wanted a small profit margin, that's fine whatever.
Oh and it's the Bulls. They always want a big
profit margin. But my point is they don't act like
they're a big like a big energy team, right like
the Lake Kris and Knicks, the Celtics, Like, they don't
embrace their history in that way. They don't use it
as an asset. They are not aggressive. I like, are
you of the belief that they could change internally and
like become a more attractive team if they actually embrace that.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I think what the problem is a lot
of the factors you laid out are why fans still
pay attention and attend the games to where some of
these other franchises couldn't get away with decades of just
sort of futility and decades might be overstating it. They
had prime Derek Rose at one point, like they're fairly relevant,
but because they have that historical cachet and it's just
one of the most loyal fan bases in the game,
and like they have the international recognition, they're sort of
still coasting on the coattails of all that, And so.
Speaker 2: There's any sort of they totally are and.
Speaker 1: So it's that, doesn't that Do you think that that
if the Bulls change, Yes, I agree, they could capitalize
more on all of that. But do you think that
all of that built up goodwill or appeal or cachet,
whatever you want to call it, is almost doing them
a disservice because they have no reason as a business
model to change.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good point. Yeah, No, that's a really
good point. Honestly, don't make good.
Speaker 1: Time, don't answer shots, sir.
Speaker 2: No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's really I hadn't. I
hadn't thought about that specific perspective before it. But that's
very true. Like it might just be we're satisfied with this,
like we don't need to apply ourselves where. I am
of the mindset that if you went out and invested
more in you know, proper coaching staffs, training staffs, what
have you scouting staffs, because the Bulls historically are being
run as one of the shortest staffed teams in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Like if you especially now that the Lakers are going
to be owned by like not not a mom and
pop shop anymore.
Speaker 2: Right exactly? So, I mean if they changed their ways
and actually were able to squeeze out wins more by
embracing analytics, by by being more thorough in the draft,
by approaching new age elements, and they suddenly became, you know,
a year to year fifty win team, I would personally
think they would stand to benefit more even financially from that.
I think they would have a more But but why
if it's all about the Benjamins, then I don't understand
and why they're rejecting that notion.
Speaker 1: I think when even though they're run like a mom
and pop shop, when you're operating something at this level,
there is an inherent lack of patience and I can
liken it. I'm sure our listeners are tired of hearing this,
but like, look at the state of sports media. Yeah,
if you want more in depth coverage, like we've decided
just because this is what certain data says about. Everything
has to be fake trades, everything has to be short
when it's written, or it has to be short digestible
video content on shorts or these are the debates we
need to have on TV because it has the rage
bait on social media. There aren't outlets that are big
enough that can stomach change enough to get to a
point where there's a payoff for all that you're doing
to be in that case, it would be promoting more
critical thought. But in this case, it's to get to
a point where you're a flagship franchise, not on reputation,
but on what you're actually doing now on the court.
And they just I don't think everything is about It's
like in a year to year, month over month type
of thing, is that no one takes the longer view anymore.
And I think it also in part like windows in
the NBA are so fleeting that I could kind of
see the appeal as a business person of just like, yeah,
I'm just gonna squeeze as much juice out of this
team each year and like capitalize off that good will
that's already there. But like, we're not at the point
where it's the NFL and there's a team that could
be two and fifteen one season, comes back and is
thirteen and four the next and wins the Super Bowl
or something like the NBA. There's still there's still a trajectory,
whether it's you know, the builds last a little longer.
And by the way, that's the other thing that should
be frustrating to fans is that you could rebuild and
it's not You're not gonna turn The fan base at
this point is probably eager for it, but like all
the safeguards that are in place to like ensure that
your fans are still showing up, that should kind of
prove that, hey, we could go through in actual rebuild
to get to a point that it's better. But you
need I think so much of it, and it doesn't
just apply to running a basketball team comes down to
the stomach for experimentation and suffering shorter term losses so
that you can get to these longer term games. And
I think we've seen it with other franchises shout out
to the Sacramento Kings. We've seen it with the Knicks
until like this era that they're in, like there's or
not all organizations are willing to do that, and none
of it ever makes sense. And the Bulls just aren't
being harmed by it as much as some other teams
would be financially speaking.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it. It's and it's so depressing
because I honestly think and it's not because I was
a Bulls fan for twenty two years, like I do
think there's so many fans of that team that are nice, patient,
very very smart, like they put themselves into the like
the minutia of the NBA and of team construction and whatnot,
and all those people have more or less voiced what
you just said, like if you go through rebuild, if
you start to build through you know, so called proper channels,
we will we will show up, we will buy tickets
to watch your seven seventeen win product. And yet the
Bulls keep telling them, no, we will stay as as
depressing as ever, and it almost feels as though they're
key there. They keep doing it just despite fans. At
this point they're not, but it does there.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're clear, they understand. I go back to
the like, we're coming full circle here. We opened with
the extensions of the front off like AK and Billy
dont like the fact that the AK, like that's supposed
to be a celebratory extension when you extend a front
office or even a coach that this is for a
job well done. They know, they absolutely know how the
fan base feels, and the fact that they continue to
just like fly in the face of that is akin
to shitting on the fan base in my opinion. So
that's where they're at. And look, if any of this
seems too harsh, I will believe that the Bulls have
changed when I've seen it, and I'm not talking about
one move, but like sustainable change, and they have to
earn that, and we just don't have any evidence that
they're gonna travel down that course.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: This offseason is all about Chicago ensuring we get dick
and balls in Toronto. I think that's how we can
nuts shell this right?
Speaker 2: I love that? Yep. See why don't I really have
an olden fans? That is my content right there? More?
Speaker 1: Can you tell our fine listeners, watchers, subscribers where they
can find you and all the work that you put out.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find me over at Yahoo Sports. You
can find me at Forbes. You can find me at
the NBA podcast and if you speak Danish you can
find me the breadth of podcast called Plus Repeat. And
if you're on Blue Sky, I'm there at MS Change.
Speaker 1: Until next time. As always, eat the shout out to
the one, the only, the player who will never suit
up to the Chicago Bulls because he has a borrel compass,
Mister Frank Nila Kena