1 00:00:36,439 --> 00:00:38,439 Speaker 1: If you want to support the show and get the 2 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,479 episodes early and ad free, head on over to Freeman 3 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,079 Beyond the Wall dot com forward slash Support. There's a 4 00:00:46,119 --> 00:00:48,600 few ways you can support me there. One there's a 5 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:52,159 direct link to my website. Two, there's a subscribe star. 6 00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:58,240 Three there's Patreon. Four there's substack. And now I've introduced 7 00:00:58,359 --> 00:01:00,719 gum Road because I know that a lot of our 8 00:01:00,759 --> 00:01:03,960 guys are on gum Road and they are again censorship. 9 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,239 So if you head over to gum Road and you 10 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,079 subscribe through there, you'll get the episodes early and ad free, 11 00:01:10,519 --> 00:01:13,840 and you'll get an invite into the Telegram group. So 12 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,560 I really appreciate all the support everyone's giving me, and 13 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,200 I hope to expand the show even more than it 14 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,719 already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome 15 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,400 everyone back to the Pekingano Show after a little bit 16 00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:32,519 of a break. Thomas is back. Are you doing, Thomas, 17 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:33,480 I'm very well. 18 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to collaborate on some 19 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,359 stuff before the big Portland basket weaving event. And this 20 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,200 is an important subject area, I mean, for just on 21 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,519 its own terms, but it dovetails rather splendidly and kind 22 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,040 of like indexes with the long form stuff I'm working on, 23 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,439 and it's especially timely with kind of the trajectory I've 24 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:02,079 been trying to your things, at least in our kind 25 00:02:02,079 --> 00:02:04,799 of intellectual circles, like not I don't like vanity or 26 00:02:05,239 --> 00:02:09,360 or just because I've got a hobbyist interest in this stuff, 27 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,479 but it's it's fundamentally important, and I'll get into that 28 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,479 as we roll out the subject. 29 00:02:16,719 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, are our buddy, uh mister Rimbo who was on 30 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,639 the episode where you were you guys were talking about 31 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,879 being on the ground as the d n C. He's 32 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,840 the one who recommended this, so shout out to him 33 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:29,560 and everything. 34 00:02:29,719 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: So he's an essential He's an essential part of bum 35 00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:38,800 Land fiction, even though he's even though he's not truly local, 36 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:41,319 and he's like an essential part of like my entourage, 37 00:02:41,599 --> 00:02:43,840 Like he's he's uh, he's going to be hitting Portland 38 00:02:43,879 --> 00:02:44,919 with me, which is awesome. 39 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, what when you said how much you guys hung 40 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,919 out and everything, I figured he was local to and 41 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,599 then when he told me where he was from, I 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:53,719 was like, holy shit. 43 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: No, he's a good dude, and he he's building firm 44 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,240 in a vacation time, so he trailed a fair amount, 45 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:04,560 and I'm lucky he's he likes Chicago and like a 46 00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:08,159 lot of like Wallbanger and Hunger that Die Merchant. They 47 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:10,439 were in town last week and we had a great time. 48 00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:13,039 But you know, they hadn't been to Shytown before, and 49 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,719 I think people think it's either really grimy because of 50 00:03:15,759 --> 00:03:18,000 what they see on the news and all that kind 51 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,479 of cap about how awful it is here, or they 52 00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:22,879 think it's just kind of like other things, just kind 53 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,000 of like New York City. He was smaller, like they 54 00:03:25,439 --> 00:03:29,319 really impressed it how cool it is, and so Rimbau. I, Yeah, 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:30,840 we we have a lot of fun here man, and 56 00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:34,039 he's he's a really good dude. I owe him a lot, 57 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,759 and I mean I will it fellas a lot. But 58 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,400 he he especially, he sends a huge amount. He's like 59 00:03:41,439 --> 00:03:44,120 a research machine. And I mean, i'd like to think 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,120 guy him too, but I'm not as young as I 61 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:49,439 once was, and I'm certainly not as young as he is, 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,479 and he he's always finding like really really great sources 63 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,560 that I've never I've never come across. 64 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: Oh well, the wife and I talked about this this 65 00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:04,199 past year and it didn't happen. But we're gonna have 66 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,840 to drive up and hang out with you like when 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,439 the when the weather breaks, once winter breaks come up 68 00:04:08,439 --> 00:04:09,840 for like the spring or something like that. 69 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be great, man. You'll have a lot of 70 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,399 fun and so well, uh, missus Q. There's a there's 71 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:19,279 a lot of there's a lot of stuff I can 72 00:04:19,319 --> 00:04:21,680 show you guys that you'll really dig. Man. Everybody has 73 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,480 fun when they come here. And I'd like to think, 74 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,360 I'd like to think I'm I'm a pretty decent tour guide. 75 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: Mean, all right, let's get into it. Uh, mister Eric Hobsbaum, 76 00:04:32,519 --> 00:04:34,399 A lot of people probably have never heard of him, 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,519 but you mentioned him all the time, usually in passing, 78 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,759 usually just quoting him or something like that. So let's 79 00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:45,480 do the deep dive. 80 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: Well, I'm he he was a true left he Glien. 81 00:04:56,759 --> 00:05:01,680 People invoked that signifier or designate rather than talk about 82 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,920 any any Marxist aconemic because in the public mind and 83 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,240 kind of in academic culture, you know, any any Marxist 84 00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:16,240 historian or historical writers, you know, exiomatically a left Hegelian knight. 85 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,040 I take exception to that descriptor for for a few reasons. 86 00:05:22,199 --> 00:05:26,680 I mean, you can't like in its own terms dialectical materialism. 87 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:30,720 It can't be Hegelian because it removes you know, providential 88 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:42,959 causation from it's uh from from from its historicism. And 89 00:05:44,439 --> 00:05:50,000 you know, there's a arguably it abolishes metaphysics, you know 90 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,519 what I mean obviously, So I mean that's it's it's 91 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,600 something of as our Marxist friends themselves would say, a 92 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:01,720 fatal contradiction. But Hobsbaum, how I really was like a 93 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,759 left take Gaelian in the purest sense. And I think 94 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,759 his take on things. I mean, obviously we don't know, 95 00:06:07,959 --> 00:06:14,879 and I've read Imperialism by Lenin many times, but I 96 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:19,720 mean Lenin wasn't Lenin was kind of the consummate political soldier. 97 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,519 You know. It's not like he was some prolific I 98 00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:23,040 mean it was, he was prolific for the role he 99 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,879 was in in terms of his academic output. But you know, 100 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,399 it's not like he was It's not like he was 101 00:06:28,399 --> 00:06:32,639 like angles or something and putting out you know, endless, 102 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:38,000 endless manuscripts or something. But I I see Hobbswan probably 103 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,199 was like the most like Lenin himself, you know, in 104 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,000 terms of his kind of political ontology as well as 105 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:52,480 in terms of how he characterized historical processes and you 106 00:06:52,519 --> 00:06:55,199 know how outcomes they're in should be judged, you know, 107 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:01,399 whether they are whether whether they advance the evolutionary imperative 108 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:05,680 and in a progressive sense, or whether they are self defeating, 109 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:09,120 you know. And so Hobsbam he was I think of 110 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:11,000 him too, is he was really much kind of like 111 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,279 a counterweight to ern SONOLDI. They had a lot of similarities, 112 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:18,399 Like their background is very different. You know, Hobsbaum was 113 00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:24,600 a Polish Jew whose father was an English subject. But 114 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:29,879 there's there's commonalities to their I mean they're very they're 115 00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:35,319 very much opposites or were opposites, but there's sort of 116 00:07:35,319 --> 00:07:38,800 a common frame of reference in terms of what they 117 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,120 would have viewed as authoritative and you know, what they 118 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:47,120 considered to be sort of the essential canon of political philosophy. 119 00:07:48,959 --> 00:07:52,800 And Hobsbom also he got this reputation people haven't really 120 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:55,720 read him, so they view hims like this unreconstructed quote 121 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,800 unquote stalinist. That's not really true. But he did refuse 122 00:08:00,519 --> 00:08:04,600 he had contempt for the New Left, and he refused 123 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:09,079 to abandon allegiance to the Soviet Union in fifty six 124 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,439 and in sixty eight. You know, he was an orthodox 125 00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:17,519 in culmore terms, in orthodox Marxist Leninist, which meant he 126 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,759 was in the Soviet camp and in the sun of 127 00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:25,480 Soviets split. He had great disdain for China for various reasons. 128 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:29,240 So these like schismatic tendencies. The fact he opposed all 129 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,720 these schismatic tendencies, and the fact he was so critical 130 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,559 a Kruse chief like that didn't make him some hardline Stalinists, 131 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:39,879 you know, like he wasn't the kind of guy who 132 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,679 would say, sit there and say that like Eric Honnecker 133 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,879 was like a great general secretary, or that like the 134 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,559 DDR had like a perfect system, and there were guys 135 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:55,200 who thought that way, you know. But so the key 136 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,480 to the key to this does kind of require like 137 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:04,360 a deep dive and I find myself, you know what, 138 00:09:04,799 --> 00:09:07,039 So people might ask themselves, you know, what does this 139 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:08,720 have to do with the present? I mean a couple 140 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,919 of things. You know, if you want to understand the 141 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,519 twentieth century, you've got to understand Marxist Leninism. You understand 142 00:09:14,519 --> 00:09:17,480 Marcus Leninism, but you got to understand the body of 143 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:23,080 theory and his theory of history that you know, kind 144 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,519 of like frame the conceptual horizon that you know, nourish 145 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,759 the it's it's revolutionary imperatives, you know. And if if 146 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:33,879 you understand the twenty first century, you got to understand 147 00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:40,960 the twentieth century and that entire dialectical process bus today 148 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,120 this kind of thought, this kind of true left to 149 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:46,480 Gallian thought, it's made a comeback. Like guys think that 150 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:48,919 guy Jackson Hinkel and a lot of people needs a crank, 151 00:09:49,279 --> 00:09:52,559 He's really not, you know, and like he's I think 152 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,240 he's partly funded by the same kinds of elements that 153 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:03,679 fund like Zuganov's like reconstituted Communist Party. I'm not saying that, sinister, 154 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,159 you know. I shouted out about this on social media. 155 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,279 But you know, these guys aren't woke. You know. That's 156 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:15,240 why when Hank Gold defines himself as like a social conservative, 157 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:21,879 that's not inconsistent, you know. And that's one of the reasons, Uh, 158 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,840 when people drop this bullshit calling everything they don't like Marxist. 159 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,480 It's like that's it's not like Kamala Harris isn't a Marxist. 160 00:10:30,159 --> 00:10:32,960 You know, Obama is not a Marxist like American, Uh, 161 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,159 American style social engineering and all the kind of bizarre 162 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,840 stuff that goes into that isn't isn't Marxism, you know. 163 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,759 So I think I think this stuff is more timely 164 00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:50,080 that a lot of people are willing to acknowledge, you know, 165 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,480 even if even if political theory is not really you know, 166 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:00,279 in your proverbial wheelhouse or something. But I'm gonna jump 167 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:04,919 around a bit if it's too scatter shot, or if 168 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,879 or or if something is not clear, like please stop me, 169 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:08,440 and I'll. 170 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:15,519 Speaker 1: I'll kind of ad just no problem, go ahead, no problem, 171 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,679 I'll interrupt if I have something. 172 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, for sure. In nineteen ninety four, HOBSWELLM. 173 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,200 Hobswam had a certain degree of prominence, especially in the UK, 174 00:11:30,519 --> 00:11:33,279 you know, throughout his kind of academic career, even though 175 00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:36,200 he didn't really involve himself in public policy debates, with 176 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,080 the exception of the Thatcher era, and we'll get into 177 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,519 that in a minute. But in nineteen ninety four, when 178 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,559 a lot of kind of retrospective stuff on the Cold 179 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,919 War was popping up in media, you know, that's when 180 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,600 like Nixon was I mean, Nixon died I think in 181 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,120 ninety four, like ninety four, ninety five, but you know, 182 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,840 Nixon have been making the rounds in nineteen ninety nineteen 183 00:11:58,879 --> 00:12:03,360 ninety two, there there was a lot of a lot 184 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,039 of a lot of color academics who were being asked, 185 00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:10,080 you know, for their to render kind of their their 186 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:17,399 their diagnosis of the events the preceding half decade and stuff. Hosbaum, Uh, 187 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:25,799 he's being interviewed by Michael Ignatius, you know, an ignoctive 188 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,960 was very much trying to put him in the hot 189 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:38,480 seat and asking him, uh loaded questions, and Hobsbump famously 190 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,879 said that had the Soviet Union succeeded in realizing a 191 00:12:42,919 --> 00:12:48,120 communist society, and had it been able to fulfill its 192 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:56,240 ambition of you know, facilitating a world historical revolutionary imperative, 193 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,039 Hobsbam said that the death to twenty million people or 194 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,480 however many perished in stall of his death camps, would 195 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,039 have been worth it so igna to have, you know, 196 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,919 famously like being clutching at his pearls verbially speaking. And 197 00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:17,559 Hobswam's rebuttal was, you know, Marx himself said that no 198 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,559 rate movement has been born without you know, the shedding 199 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,279 of blood, and you know, has flowed it up by saying, 200 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,480 you know, self sacrifice isn't the only kind of sacrifice 201 00:13:28,519 --> 00:13:31,679 that was in the contemplation of Marx or Lenin or 202 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,320 anybody else, you know, But this wasn't the standard maya 203 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,919 culpa or whatever. Like a lot of like a lot 204 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,879 of kind of like Norman Khans think, as well as 205 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:49,360 a lot of kind of do left types. This this 206 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,279 wasn't just Hosen being deliberately callous or something. But you 207 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,519 got to understand the vantage point from where he's speaking, 208 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,240 Like historical processes aren't They're not the result them conspiratorial 209 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:07,840 designs by like criminal actors. You know, they're not even 210 00:14:07,879 --> 00:14:10,720 even if you're a true vanguardist, even if you kind 211 00:14:10,759 --> 00:14:14,080 of accept Rousseau's view with a general will and uh 212 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,159 hobswold very much, did you know, of course the general 213 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,679 will doesn't speak. It's he's not. Rousseau isn't referring to 214 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:25,759 like the body politic as a whole, like it could 215 00:14:25,759 --> 00:14:29,919 be just like narrow discrete elements within the political organism 216 00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:36,559 who's uh, whose commitments and whose conceptual horizon like indexes 217 00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:40,600 very strongly, you know, with a revolutionary leadership element, you know, 218 00:14:42,919 --> 00:14:46,320 but uh, that does but these people are still what 219 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:51,639 they're doing is they're they're engaging very intimately in psychological 220 00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:56,679 and political terms, with historical processes. They're not creating these conditions. 221 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,759 So if you ask, you know, so so trying to 222 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:02,000 try to put Nolty on the hot seat like this, 223 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,200 We're trying to put hous on the hot seat like this. 224 00:15:04,519 --> 00:15:07,600 It's similar to what Howard Maaz and his his acolytes 225 00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:10,399 and allies we'll try to do to Noulty, you know, like, oh, 226 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,039 you're you're justifying these monstrous crimes. You know, and always said, no, 227 00:15:14,039 --> 00:15:18,440 nobody's justifying anything. But if you're talking about the historical 228 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,399 process and you're talking about warfare at massive scale, at 229 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,000 literally planetary scale, where we're not talking about decisions made 230 00:15:27,039 --> 00:15:30,480 by discrete individual actors, We're not talking about people committing crimes, 231 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,600 you know, we're talking about events that are truly providential 232 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,080 or you know, if you're an atheist like Hoswo, I'm 233 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,000 truly providential, okay. And even if you assign a purely 234 00:15:42,039 --> 00:15:47,080 material a complation of purely material causes, you know, to 235 00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:51,679 these things, it's a constellation of variables, so myriad, so 236 00:15:51,879 --> 00:15:57,279 complex at such scale, nobody can be said to be 237 00:15:57,399 --> 00:16:01,919 like responsible as a as a as a causative agent 238 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,200 in approximate terms. So who was who was? Who was 239 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,080 Eric Hosbom? I thought it was actually born in Egypt, 240 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,399 you know his uh, his father was Leopold Percy Hobsbamb. 241 00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:22,919 It's believed that the original surname was aps Bomb, but 242 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:29,679 a combination of deliberate anglicization of the surname and clerical 243 00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:36,279 error led to it becoming hobbs Bomb. His father had 244 00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:40,960 been some kind of merchant who was originally from the 245 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,039 East End of London. But he but he was a 246 00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:51,360 Polish jew His mother, uh was a Jewish woman named 247 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,960 Nellie Gruen who had come from a middle class family. 248 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,080 And then then you know, and then what was then? 249 00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:04,559 You know, the HAPs were Empire in Austria. How Dum 250 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,799 relayed that like he was so consciously Jewish because his 251 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,000 parents conveyed to him, you know, the like like to 252 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:14,079 take his though seriously. But he said he was raised 253 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,160 in basically like an atheist household. He's like it was 254 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,400 a very Jewish household, but it wasn't religious, you know, 255 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,079 and that that wasn't really strange for uh. Hobsum was 256 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,119 born in nineteen seventeen. I mean, that was that's very 257 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,599 much a twentieth century thing, you know, I ever size 258 00:17:28,599 --> 00:17:31,240 to people again and again, like nobody thinks this way anymore. 259 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,960 Like the remaining the remaining self declared atheists who have 260 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:39,640 any kind of public profile, like no, nobody, nobody takes 261 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,799 them seriously anymore, you know. And I mean really that 262 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,079 kind of thing was dead by you know, by the 263 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,279 end of the nineteen nineties, but there were some there 264 00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:56,599 was some peculiar holdouts, and it had something of it 265 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:01,119 had something of a media profile, particularly in new media 266 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,440 right before it's kind of final death, as as a 267 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:10,720 culturally relevant quantity. But you know, so that some one 268 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:14,440 had a fairly cause of upbringing. You know, he wasn't. 269 00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:17,759 He wasn't some ghetto wise Jew who was sitting around 270 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:19,960 reading Marx and Engels and kind of like nursing these 271 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,160 grudges and stuff. I mean, like, don't get me wrong, 272 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,640 I'm sure that his ethnos and the you know, they 273 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:32,440 kind of conceptual biases and intrinsic to that sort of 274 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,559 household like absolutely informed his perspective. But you know, he wasn't. 275 00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:41,200 He wasn't some guy from you know, the pale settlement 276 00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:44,599 or something or from or from some impoverished the you know, 277 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,519 tenement in Poland. And I've heard people speculated the fact 278 00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:50,920 who want to throw shade out of him like that, 279 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,240 that's just like not accurate. But he, uh, he was 280 00:18:56,279 --> 00:19:01,720 a teenage he ultimately his father died when he was 281 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,519 when he was quite young, I think when he was 282 00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:11,720 twelve or thirteen years old, he was sent to uh 283 00:19:11,839 --> 00:19:13,799 he was sent to live with his aunt a couple 284 00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:15,880 of years later and his sister, and when his mother 285 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:21,960 died as well, his maternal aunt and uh, they settled 286 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,680 in Berlin. And then when uh, when the National Socialist 287 00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:32,200 Revolution kicked off or whatever, when the National Socialists got 288 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,640 their uh parliamentary plurality, which maybe you know became a 289 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,200 problematic majority after the KPD was was outlawed owing to 290 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,200 the the attack on the Reichs the Reichstag fire. You know, 291 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,680 they they they had an absolute majority. But Hobswam returned 292 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,160 to the United Kingdom. When I say returned, his father 293 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,039 was an English subject, so young hoswellm wasn't considered like 294 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,480 he was considered. He was also considered to be a 295 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:04,559 subject of the Empire, you know, and not subject to 296 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:10,720 laws regarding alienage and things like that. He attended King's 297 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:16,119 College at Cambridge. You know, he became UH. He joined 298 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,640 the Communist Party of Great Britain basically as like as 299 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:19,960 soon as he was of age. You know, I think 300 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,960 when he was nineteen years old. I think you got 301 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:29,119 to be eighteen to join in those days, but you know, 302 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:34,119 he got. He took his doctorate from a from Cambridge, 303 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,960 and I believe his thesis, his PhD thesis was on 304 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,119 the history of the Fabian society and Fabian socialism, you know, 305 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:51,119 and Hobsbaum's commitments as well as his his particular kind 306 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:57,160 of brand of UH of Marxist thoughts. It was very 307 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,240 much it was very much rive about that of the 308 00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:06,039 of the English Communist Party, the Communists Party a Great Britain. Okay, 309 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,200 Like when I say derive it, I don't mean that 310 00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:11,839 in punitive terms, But what I mean is Pabswom quite 311 00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:15,400 literally identified himself as a quote red Tory, you know. 312 00:21:16,599 --> 00:21:18,119 And we'll get into what they had means and the 313 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,680 implications that add But guys like Kim Philby in the 314 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,079 Cambridge five, they they were cut from the same kind 315 00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:30,319 of cloth, you know, the the Communs Party a Great Britain. 316 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,680 They were very much a fifth column during the Cold 317 00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:38,559 War in a way that other similar elements weren't on 318 00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:42,960 the continent because they were they they were Orthodox Marcus 319 00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:47,519 Letting this. They unconditionally supported the Soviet Union, you know. 320 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:50,160 They so they were very much in the Cold War. 321 00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:51,880 You know, there's more of a bunch of trotsky Is, 322 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:59,240 you know, trying to trying to cultivate electoral respectability. Nor 323 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,920 they uh uh you know, nor were they know were 324 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,119 they like active as liberals are the kinds who find 325 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,079 themselves in and geocenticures who are kind of Communists in 326 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:15,480 name only, like they're they're the genuine article. They're pro Soviet. 327 00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:18,079 They were loyal to Stalin subsequently, they were loyal to 328 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,359 his memory. But they were not uncritical, you know. They 329 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,119 they they very much uh viewed the situation as you know, 330 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:33,680 for all of its frailties and for all of it's 331 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,119 less than ideal characteristics and situatedness. You know, the Soviet 332 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,559 Union is what we have in this world, and this 333 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:47,319 world is all there is, you know, so it's suicidally 334 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:55,599 short sighted, you know, and and in political terms to 335 00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:59,799 to divorce oneself from the ambitions and the deaths and 336 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:12,400 the of a of the Soviet system. But and interestingly, Hobsbaum, Uh, 337 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,400 he served as a comet engineer during World War Two, 338 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,759 and he caught some flack at the time and in 339 00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:26,400 a decade subsequent because uh, when the Molotov Ribbon Trot 340 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:35,880 Pact was signed, Hobsbaum and and his ideological fellows and comrades, 341 00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:39,400 they they'd shout down people who are critical of the 342 00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:45,240 Third Reich because he said, you know, alliance of convenience, 343 00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:50,200 this may be, or you know whatever, however contrived this 344 00:23:50,319 --> 00:23:54,839 no aggression, packed may be. You know, this is uh, 345 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,759 this is the way things must be. You know, in 346 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,920 order for the Reel, we're gonna be consolidated in situ. 347 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,559 So anybody opposing the Reich or calling for its destruction 348 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,079 or calling for Moscow to preemptively assault it, which Moscow 349 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,599 is absolutely planning on doing. But people didn't know this 350 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:23,759 outside of you know, cadresproximate to the reds are Stalin, 351 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,960 you know. But he considered this to be like a 352 00:24:28,039 --> 00:24:33,759 kind of revolutionary tendency, which was the Orthodox perspective, the 353 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:42,720 Orthodox Marc's perspective. But other than that, Hosbaum was very 354 00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:45,960 much like a doc Trian anti fascist, like not not 355 00:24:46,079 --> 00:24:51,880 in Nuremberg terms. But and we'll get into this probably 356 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,920 in the second episode. Hobswamp's take on fascism in national 357 00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:01,319 socialism is interesting. It's not it's by no means, you know, dismissed, 358 00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:07,440 totally dismissive and some punitive capacity. He says that the 359 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,880 strength of fascism was that it mastered technics and technology. 360 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,720 It uh, it was able to imbue people with like 361 00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:21,160 a fervent kind of energy to realize its objectives. But 362 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,920 he considered it to be quote philosophically impoverished, and he 363 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,559 didn't really seem to understand, uh, he didn't really understand 364 00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:39,160 the the kind of trajectory of uh Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Heidegger, 365 00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:44,880 you know, to national socialism. Now that some people who 366 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,839 have like a punitive like thunder vague like take on 367 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,359 Germany and the germanis of people in the German state, 368 00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:54,000 that's not that's not what Hosbon was. That's not what 369 00:25:54,039 --> 00:25:59,680 I'm saying, and that's not you know, And Hoswom wasn't 370 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:05,720 prone to that the kind of motive thought either, But 371 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,880 like a lot of Doctair and Marxist He couldn't really 372 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,920 see the forest of the trees. I don't if he 373 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:18,119 understood the enduring power of continental philosophy outside of Marxist 374 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:24,759 a jacent thinkers, you know, and informing what what what 375 00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:26,680 what was going on in Italy, what was going on 376 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,920 in Germany, you know, in the Inner Warriors. I don't 377 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,319 think he understood this. I think it was one of 378 00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:37,319 his blind spots, owing to adherence to you know, uh 379 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,640 An ideology and Marxism that that that that quite literally 380 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:49,839 inundates people with like a missionary zeal that sometimes uh, 381 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:57,559 these were kind of tunnel vision. But you know at 382 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,920 uh and again, like I said, I believe like the 383 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,720 Red Tory uh Moniker. You know, they became kind of 384 00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:12,839 bandied about in the UK about even a lot of 385 00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:15,440 these like Labor types. You know, back when the Labor 386 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960 Party was a real party. You know, there were there 387 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,119 were these guys who were basically like we consider them 388 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,880 in America to be like you know, we get centered 389 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:31,519 to be like like like right wing type type of figures. 390 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,480 But for the fact that you know, they uh, they 391 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,880 were very much socialists in there in their orientation, you know, 392 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,160 They believe in state socialism both as like an ethical 393 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,599 postulate as well as a kind of inevitability if if 394 00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:51,880 if the modern state was to survive, you know, with 395 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:58,400 any kind of with any kind of legitimacy. So yeah, 396 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,160 how long you're going something hory communists? Uh not a 397 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,160 red tory, but uh that Uh and again that seems 398 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,920 paradoxical to people. But again it's I you know, Zuganov's 399 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,599 Communist Party, you know, to Jackson Hinkle. But even you know, 400 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,200 in in historical capacities, this this resonated with people who 401 00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:28,240 had a developed understanding of political theory, the Marxism of 402 00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:31,200 the Frankfurt School. People like Osloh had contempt for that. 403 00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:34,240 You know, they were like, this is degenerate garbage. This 404 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:40,400 is this is uh, this is therapy for people who 405 00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:44,119 uh want to strike some kind of protest pose, you know, 406 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,759 but are basically imbibing uh you know, the kind of 407 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:55,799 alienation uh that's deliberately engineered by by capitalist societies and 408 00:28:55,839 --> 00:28:58,559 saying like, oh, but this can be mitigated if you know, 409 00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:03,359 we have unrestricted acts that's the sexual hedonism, or if 410 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:07,880 we can you know, partake of these uh material rewards 411 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,119 or you know, if we can if the state becomes 412 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:14,119 a kind of if the state becomes kind of kind 413 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,599 of aersots like aristots like therapeutic mechanism or or or 414 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,319 a kind of rabbinic panel, or or or like a 415 00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:26,920 like a or or like an aristotce like church, whereby 416 00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:31,119 like the declaratory judgments, that's not how like validate these 417 00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:38,480 these like contrived like post modern identities, you know. And 418 00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:43,039 I mean that's that, that's anybody who's the true communist partisan. 419 00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:46,920 What you know is it was disgusted by this, you know. 420 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,119 I mean, I'm not I'm not saying Marxism is is good. 421 00:29:50,319 --> 00:29:52,839 I'm not saying it's like good qualities because it doesn't. 422 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,640 But they were and they are serious guys. And if 423 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,759 you understand, and we'll get an this is in a minute, 424 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,160 if you understand that kind of like mercis Lenin, it 425 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,920 is like view of the historical process, you know. Basically 426 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,839 basically they view like a lot of liberalizing tendencies to 427 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,000 have resulted in a kind of reactionary ethos among people 428 00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:21,079 and to then their estimates. And that's where nationalism comes from. 429 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,599 Like nationalism isn't this really organic thing? I'm not talking 430 00:30:24,599 --> 00:30:28,440 about nationalism, meaning like caring about your race or your ethnos, 431 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,519 I mean like nationalism in the form of, yeah, this 432 00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:35,279 is the country of Poland. So like you know, according 433 00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:38,720 to this artrary criteria, like whoever speaks Polish is like 434 00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:43,319 part of the body politic and anybody outside of that, 435 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,440 you know, is not. And uh, you know, despite the 436 00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:53,480 fact that you know, the existence of this government is 437 00:30:53,519 --> 00:31:00,079 deleterious to you know, the kind of organic uh, the 438 00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,079 the variables that constantly like an organic communitary in life. 439 00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:06,400 You know, if we like fly the flag and you know, 440 00:31:06,519 --> 00:31:09,240 make make this language the state language. You know, we're 441 00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:13,160 we're somehow you know, guarding tradition or something like. That's 442 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,680 what they're talking about. And in their view, it's an 443 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,400 effort by people whose lives are totally disrupted by future 444 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,799 shock basically, you know, and by the advanced und a 445 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:30,799 productive processes such that you know, labor is no longer 446 00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:36,119 a complete process that people partake of in order to 447 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,400 see through you know, the creative development of of a 448 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:45,920 of an object or a thing or a necessary activity 449 00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:51,480 from start to finish. You know, it just becomes an 450 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:57,200 artifact of a mechanization. You know, the discrete aspects of 451 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,160 which you know, humans are still required or needed to perform. 452 00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:06,240 But I mean, you're performing these activities in endless repetition 453 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:14,720 without any meaningful experience of the totality of its fruitfulness, 454 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,240 you know, and in the company of total strangers. You know, 455 00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:23,519 who's only who's only the only affinity between you and 456 00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:28,279 them is it's kind of accident of locale or whatever. 457 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,160 You know, that that's what they're talking about. But uh, 458 00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:35,799 you know, and so people like Cosbon, even if they 459 00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:42,039 didn't do things like religious observances as particularly positive or laudable, 460 00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:46,279 you know, they they viewed it as a you know, 461 00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:49,960 an anthropological feature of the historical process, you know, whose 462 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,079 time arrives and then passes. But they but they did 463 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,519 view you know, communitarian bonds of whatever they may be, 464 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,319 you know, whether they're like you know, promised on coulture, 465 00:33:03,319 --> 00:33:06,720 sectarian affinity, or what have you. You know, like in the 466 00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:10,000 historical moment in which those things are relevant, they consider 467 00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:12,920 those things valuable, you know, because at the end of 468 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,200 the day, to a Marcius Lenini, it's like the individual 469 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,759 doesn't matter, you know, So whatever facilitates like the dignity 470 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:25,440 of you know, the laboring class or classes, you know, 471 00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:30,880 is basically like a social good. Okay, so somebody like Cosblomavie, 472 00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:34,839 you know, seeing a bunch of people saying like, uh, 473 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:38,319 you know, marriage or like pair bonding isn't important. All 474 00:33:38,359 --> 00:33:41,400 that matters is like sterile sex and you know the 475 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,599 catharsis you get from from engaging that kind of stuff, 476 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,720 or you know, all that matters is you know, people 477 00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:51,960 being liberated from obligations to others or obligations to history. 478 00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:55,440 You know, you know, the highest good is being free, 479 00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:01,519 like you know, still out wealth on yourself and cultivate 480 00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:07,000 these these kinds of distractions that that that facilitated leedgend 481 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,400 gratification like he had contempt for that, and basically any 482 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,559 orthodox Marxist does, you know, they're like again, they're not 483 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:20,360 woke at all if you want to race and if 484 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,800 you want race too, like it's not I've just this 485 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,440 point again again too, Like Marxists don't think race is important, 486 00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,239 but they're not anti racist, like there's no reason they 487 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,000 don't think there's anything wrong with a bunch of immigrants 488 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,880 like swamped like a formerly Western country, but they don't 489 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,760 think that should be a priority either. You know, and 490 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:46,000 this idea that this idea that they're you know, this 491 00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:50,079 idea that racial identity needs to be like socially engineered 492 00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:52,880 out of existence, like they have no like truck with that, 493 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,719 you know. Like Stalin did try to like uh, what 494 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,519 he called the nationalities problem. That definitely tracks you know 495 00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:05,039 with like ethnic cleansing under us because the civil rights 496 00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:08,960 in America. But that's because the nant the quote nationalities 497 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,559 were causing problems for the party and for the Central Committee, 498 00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:15,559 you know, and if they weren't causing problems, like it 499 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:18,360 wasn't so much a priority, wasn't it. 500 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: Because the like the the nationalities that he had a 501 00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:25,440 problem with he considered to be the aspara person nationalities 502 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,760 that could possibly collude with their home countries. 503 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 2: That was part of it. Yeah, definitely, that's part of it, definitely, 504 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,440 and that's why that's one of the reasons why, uh, 505 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,119 one of the reasons the Soviets assaulted Poland. I mean 506 00:35:40,159 --> 00:35:42,039 it was it was obviously because you know, there was 507 00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:45,239 a geostrategic imperative to be able to deploy in depth 508 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,519 and things like that, but also there was like an 509 00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:52,920 active like Ruthenian minority there that Stalin was convinced we're 510 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,280 going to try and like reinforce the Ukrainians like an 511 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,480 event of open war. Yeah, it was all that stuff. 512 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,960 And don't get me wrong. Also like I'm not I'm not, 513 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239 I'm not sitting here defending the concept of like new 514 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:11,159 Soviet man like eventually like identitarian characteristics relating to historical memory, 515 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,119 like weren't we're slayd for annihilation under like a communist system. 516 00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:17,760 And Hobsam would have absolutely agreed with that. But my 517 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,239 point is guys like Hobbham weren't sitting around saying, like, 518 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,880 you know, we need to settle like African people in 519 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,079 Ireland because it's not right that it's one hundred percent Irish. 520 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,119 Like they view that as like it's nonsensical, you know, 521 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,960 just like people like Hobsbamb. When Nuremberg kicked off the proceedings, 522 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,079 you know, the view from Moscow was why are we gonna, 523 00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:44,920 why are we gonna like declared Jews? Maybe this like 524 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,039 murdered population. You know, we lost twenty five million people 525 00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:50,639 fighting the Fascis, you know, like you're not there. And 526 00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:53,320 plus there are no Jews in the Soviet Union. You know, 527 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,920 there's like Soviet citizens. You know, there's the body politic 528 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,480 and there's like our ops, and there's the most people 529 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,400 outside of that at you know, and then there and 530 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,000 then there's like the Zionists and other like other vanguard 531 00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:11,320 tendencies trying to exploit you know, grieven since the nationality 532 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,039 used to undermine socialism like that was their view of it, 533 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,760 you know, and even today, like that's why this carries 534 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,000 over into today, like the way the Russian Federation views things, 535 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,280 like the Russians are always always, always gonna view their 536 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,119 enemies as Nazis and fascists. How would they not, Okay, 537 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,800 But when they talk about that, they're not. They're not 538 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,519 they're not saying it like the way like like like 539 00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,400 the way Chuck Schumer uses you're that, or they're not 540 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,480 saying that, you know, these people are like anti gay 541 00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:47,159 or they're or these people don't respect, you know, the 542 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,360 heerent dignity of all people. And they're not into diversity. 543 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,280 That's not what they're saying at all, Like they mean 544 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,559 something very specific by it, and you know that's that. 545 00:37:58,039 --> 00:38:02,239 It's it's uh, it's both with the ah it both 546 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,320 alost you know, the ancestral memory of the Great patriotic 547 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,280 war as well as there's still like a lot of 548 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,320 there's still a lot of like left tag alien thought 549 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,239 like in Russia. You know, even somebody like Dugan, and 550 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,800 I like Dugan, I I mean a lot of Russian 551 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,679 academic culture I find kind of alien just because I'm 552 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,239 like very much an Anglophone person. And that's not I'm 553 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,239 not putting shade on like the Eastern Slavic people's or something, 554 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:33,039 but uh, I don't find it. I mean, they're very 555 00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:38,039 much like a different people. Okay, but even a guy 556 00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:43,079 like Dugan, there's very much like left take alien strains 557 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:46,559 of like Leninist thought like and stuff that he postulates. 558 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,320 And he's like very much like a I mean, he's 559 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,239 he's very much a committed Christian, you know, like Eastern Christian. 560 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,119 You know that's a bit of a tangent. Forgive me 561 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:03,079 if that was a kind of outside the scope. But 562 00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:05,559 but I mean this most important, uh you know, not 563 00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:10,000 just to clarify what we're talking about, and my my 564 00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:13,800 kind of primary wheelius is political theory, but you know, 565 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,559 just structuring the kind of conceptual landscape and which were 566 00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:21,760 remired just declaring anybody on the left be a Marxist 567 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,320 like that that doesn't make any sense. That's like that 568 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,880 that says that's just that's just fucking retarded as saying 569 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,719 that like Donald Trump is a fascist or like the 570 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,559 p there is like people who avidly like follow his 571 00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:39,880 you know, media and political career and and and support him, 572 00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:43,400 you know, are like fascists. Like it's it's just as 573 00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:47,760 ridiculous and and at odds and the reality is as 574 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,239 saying that. But yeah, I'll try to I'll try to 575 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:58,480 pick it up a little bit tangents, but uh, it's 576 00:39:58,519 --> 00:40:05,960 kind of magnum opus. There's a four volume UH study 577 00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:12,079 called the Age Revolution Age Revolution seventeen eighty nine to 578 00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:15,480 eighteen forty eight, and the first volume dropped in nineteen 579 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:22,119 sixty two. This is a seminal work of historicism, in 580 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:29,159 my opinion. You can find the abridged UH this version 581 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,320 of it in a series of PDF files if you 582 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,400 dig around if there, if people are really interested, I'll 583 00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:38,320 i'll I'll throw it up on my on my substack. 584 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:50,480 But you know, basically, it's, uh the cosbomb, like modernity 585 00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:58,599 really arrived with the French Revolution, Okay, And what do 586 00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:00,639 you what I mean by that? And like what he 587 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,559 conveys in the first volume of this Age of Age 588 00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:10,000 of Revolution, is that, you know, the overlong majority of 589 00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:15,440 people in Europe in seventeen eighty nine, they still lived 590 00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:18,880 like people did in the medieval period. You know, there 591 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,480 was you had this kind of very very slim minority 592 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,360 of dedicated urbanites, you know, and people who were close 593 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:35,719 to technology and productive processes facilitated by technology. But almost 594 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:42,000 everybody they were living, you know, basically as subsistence farmers 595 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,679 or as people you know, laboring with the household as 596 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,360 the local production, you know, and essentially bartering and trading 597 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,559 on things they could make, you know, within the household. 598 00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,159 You know, this wasn't I think with this idea that 599 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,280 you know, after like upon the ansen of the Age 600 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,880 of Discovery or whatever, like suddenly things became moderate and 601 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,360 everybody lived in a city or like a town, but 602 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,000 it just things were low tech compared to today. Like 603 00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:20,440 that wasn't Most people in seventeen eighty nine lived not 604 00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:23,119 much different than they did in thirteen eighty nine. Okay, 605 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,599 And this is fundamentally important, and that's kind of where 606 00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:33,920 hobsbamb It's subtle, but it's very much there. And I 607 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,119 consider it's a set. I consider it essential to understanding 608 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:46,960 something of his political something of his ontological claims about politics. 609 00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:50,960 As I said a minute ago in a slightly vent context, 610 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,239 you know when Rousseau talks about the General Will, and 611 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,559 I highly recommend Rousseau to anybody on the right. He's 612 00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:04,480 very important. I first read him when I was about sixteen, 613 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:11,360 and that completely changed my perspective on political theory. But 614 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,360 you know, part of it's uh, part of it's because 615 00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:22,480 things are lost in translation, particularly French to English. There's 616 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,000 a lot of there's a lot of subtle concepts intrinsic 617 00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:29,960 to the French language, particularly if you're talking about metaphysics 618 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:35,000 or politics or anything conceptual that really that really doesn't translate. 619 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,639 But the General Will, like Russell again, Rousseau's not talking 620 00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:43,519 about some majoritarian consensus of like the whole body politic 621 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,800 describing it as general. The way to understand that ad 622 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,239 is to mean something bigger than like a discrete individual 623 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,920 actor or actors. You've got to think about it as 624 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,280 inextricably bound up to zeitgeist, like as a concept. Okay, 625 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,039 so the General Will, it might only be like one 626 00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:10,280 hundred guys out of a population of like five million people. 627 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,519 But for whatever reason, they astride the zeitgeist. They've got 628 00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:24,840 like the gumption sort of the intelligence in political terms, 629 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:32,239 and the motivation and the balls to see through purely 630 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,280 historical and irrevolutionary imperatives, you know, in a way that 631 00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:45,239 has a formative effect, you know, either as like a 632 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:52,519 reformist tendency or alternatively it can be a tendency towards 633 00:44:52,519 --> 00:44:58,679 creative destruction and oblivion. But basically the general will describes 634 00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:11,719 this like intangib will tendency or sensibility that animates this uh, 635 00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:21,760 this cadre at uh in deeply psychological terms, and animates 636 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:29,679 and motivates them to realize a revolutionary imperative. Okay, Often too, 637 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,519 this dovetails and peculiar ways with whoever the leadership element 638 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,760 is of the state as it exists you know in 639 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:46,480 situ Okay. But that's so Hazma makes a lot of 640 00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:50,639 that in Age of Revolution, Okay, because a lot of 641 00:45:50,639 --> 00:45:55,119 court history that is now for that's the jaguin revolution. 642 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,000 It's a combination like goofy stuff. I think people filled 643 00:45:59,079 --> 00:46:02,079 from stuff like like like late mews or something where 644 00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,960 it's like, oh, everybody who was living in poverty and 645 00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:09,360 the crushing misery of these slums. So there was like 646 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,760 this uprising, like that's not that's not what happened. And again, 647 00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:19,639 you know, the material conditions of seventeen eighty nine, the 648 00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:25,599 purely material conditions weren't radically different than centuries past. Okay, 649 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:33,760 conceptually they were totally different. And that's that's what I 650 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,400 mean when I point out that Hosbaum was a was 651 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:43,360 a true left to Galien. Psychological variables stand in for 652 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:50,840 providential ones. Okay. But people are familiar with the subject 653 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,039 area in general terms understand exactly what I'm talking about 654 00:46:54,239 --> 00:47:03,320 and why that's important eating valume. In this four volume 655 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:11,079 study was was Age of Capital, you know, and Age 656 00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:14,360 of Capital I think it's kind of it's kind of 657 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:19,280 a counterpart to the Stupiter's business cycles, okay. And it's 658 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,400 interesting to me that this kind of simpleton's stuff like Keenes, 659 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,079 even people who are pretty outside the main stream and 660 00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:34,719 pretty far left, they still cite that kind of stuff. 661 00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:37,920 You know, I would think that Age of Capital would 662 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,920 be their kind of go to, you know. And it's 663 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,559 highly it was it was a highly respected UH treaties 664 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:54,199 because it it showcased a genuine understanding of economics, you know, 665 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,480 and I I generally agree with Burnham. There's not a 666 00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:04,559 quote Marxist economic because Marxism isn't a science. It's not 667 00:48:05,559 --> 00:48:09,639 a theory of economics, you know. It's uh, it's a 668 00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:15,920 series of sociological postulates and claims about the historical process, 669 00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:20,239 you know. But there's not quoting Marxist economics. You know, 670 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:26,880 like like a Marxist economist, you know, he arbitrarily way 671 00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:33,559 inputs you know, based on his own conceptual biases about what, 672 00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:40,800 in particular concrete terms, is like driving this, you know, 673 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,199 the stage of the historical process, you know that he 674 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:50,960 finds himself in or that was the you know, epoch 675 00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:55,840 in which the the data being coded and interpreted occurred. 676 00:48:56,559 --> 00:49:03,559 You know. It's uh. It begins with the conclusion about 677 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,840 the human condition as it relates to historical and political phenomena, 678 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:19,679 and then and and then and then seeks out variables 679 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:24,400 that that can substantiate it in uh, in partisan terms, 680 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,280 you know. And there's some of that and a lot 681 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,800 of Hoswald's writing. But he but again, he understands puer 682 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,880 economics of such a thing that we said to exist 683 00:49:35,519 --> 00:49:39,000 better than most people I mean including uh. I don't 684 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,199 think academics are any great shakes, but I mean including 685 00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:47,440 people who were you know, were in you know, his 686 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:53,800 his peer group as a as a as a political 687 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:59,079 uh partisan and as a uh as a political theorist. 688 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:06,239 Uh and you know what can it And this also 689 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:11,679 is what explains Hosmon's like lifelong dedication to communism, because 690 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,800 it's a total theory of history. You know, It's not 691 00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:20,239 something you take on for because you're alienated and and 692 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,960 like want some protest identity. I mean, yeah, I'm sure 693 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,199 some people do that, but they they're not serious people 694 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,000 and they're certainly not they're certainly not writing stuff, you know, 695 00:50:29,159 --> 00:50:31,199 like on a par with the age Revolution in the 696 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:37,400 Age of Capital. And Hosmon've never hid that, you know it. 697 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,159 But he also one of one of Hoswe's collaborators on 698 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,639 a on a lot of scholarship and a lot of 699 00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:54,639 his work product was this guy Eric Forearner Foreigner was 700 00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:57,039 was known. He becames like firebrand who was like constantly 701 00:50:57,119 --> 00:51:01,159 bashing gormat show off and you know, and and issuing 702 00:51:01,199 --> 00:51:04,199 these these these punitive declarations about a garbage show off, 703 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,440 is is forsaking the revolution? And he's a trader the 704 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,960 Sovietism and you know into and of the Socialist Community 705 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,000 of Nations as well as the UH. It's both the 706 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,840 political parties that are you know, behind you know who 707 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,800 exists in in in in the capitalist world as well, 708 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,440 like Cosmon ever did that. And it's not it's not 709 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,039 because he was worried about his public image. I mean, 710 00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:33,599 he would defend Nolin publicly. It's because if you are 711 00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:37,559 a true Mercus Leninist like he was, like the failure 712 00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:43,400 of the Soviet Union was ordained by that same process, 713 00:51:44,119 --> 00:51:47,800 you know, in Hosboon's his unconditional loyalty to the Soviet 714 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:53,159 Union contrary to enemies that didn't entail some like slavish 715 00:51:53,239 --> 00:52:00,280 like uncritical view of it. You know when when Cruse 716 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:08,920 Chief was assailing Stalin's memory and you know by name, 717 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:16,440 attempting to impeach the personality cult, you know, obviously after 718 00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:28,000 after nineteen sixty, after after nineteen fifty four, fifty six 719 00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:33,000 there and you know how hos Mom said to his comrades, 720 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,920 you know at cadre level, you know, we we we 721 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,480 we need to we need to take a hard look 722 00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:46,519 at at at Stalin's tenure and you know, what what 723 00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:49,920 what was laudable and what went wrong, and what you 724 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:55,280 know was in fact a kind of revolutionary tendency, because otherwise, 725 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,840 you know, the the revolution won't survive. And and how's 726 00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:02,920 was honest to Osmam obviously had a lot of respect 727 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:08,719 for the Russians as a people, but he you know, 728 00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:14,280 he was always he was a Soviet partisan, but with 729 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,519 with with reservations, because he was the first to make 730 00:53:18,559 --> 00:53:26,599 the point, you know, uh, the revolutionary imperative didn't spark 731 00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:31,039 in the most hyper advanced capitalist country. It didn't happen 732 00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:34,400 in Germany, it didn't happen in the UK. It happened 733 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:40,400 in Russia, where the capitalist class was on very tenuous ground, 734 00:53:41,559 --> 00:53:48,039 you know. And were they the opponent's revolution? Were really 735 00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:51,119 the Tsarist elements, So we're incredibly hard guys. They were 736 00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:56,760 god hearing people, They were patriots, but they were thrown 737 00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,280 in altered reactionaries. I don't mean that putatively at all, 738 00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:03,199 but that's what they were, you know, they weren't they 739 00:54:03,199 --> 00:54:09,000 weren't some capitalist element that you know, could draw upon 740 00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:14,639 this great power available to them by you know, the 741 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:22,360 productive processes that can literally extract wealth out of the dirt. 742 00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:25,039 You know, that's not that's not of the Bolsheviks were 743 00:54:25,039 --> 00:54:29,840 facing down and murdering, you know, so they they kind 744 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,039 of knocked down a house of cards in what became 745 00:54:33,079 --> 00:54:38,360 the Soviet Union, you know, and Hosbo never lost sight 746 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,920 of that. See. On the one hand, you know, you 747 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,000 must stand with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is 748 00:54:47,039 --> 00:54:52,000 the it's the beating heart of the socialist community and 749 00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:58,039 nations and of the revolution, you know, but that doesn't 750 00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:02,880 mean that, you know, one mustn critically accept every feature 751 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:10,360 of uh of the Soviet state. And uh oswell was 752 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,280 critical of state socialism from day one, like he considered 753 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,239 it a necessary stage. But he wasn't. That's what the 754 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,320 reasons I object to people saying, oh he was like 755 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:28,440 the Stalinist, like a true Stalinist, was uh was? Or 756 00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:31,920 is uh you know somebody who looks at the Soviet 757 00:55:32,039 --> 00:55:35,360 state as like the zenith of stay craft and then 758 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,480 and and they do that as like a positive thing, 759 00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:47,760 you know, basically uh, you know, based basically uh, basically 760 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:54,239 this this this this mighty empire of uh. You know 761 00:55:54,280 --> 00:56:01,239 that like leads the world in in in in terms 762 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,760 of how like you know, the industrial proletariat is valued. 763 00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:07,400 You know, it's a superpower because of its military might 764 00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:11,559 and it's mastery of technics including nuclear weapons and the 765 00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:14,239 ability to deploy into orbital space and things like that. 766 00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:18,800 You know, like these and these guys do exist, you know, 767 00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:21,119 I mean like that is now like Cosmon was not 768 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:25,159 at all one of those guys. Okay, to be clear, 769 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,320 let me see in my outline, like I'm not I'm 770 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,199 not an F A G, G O T. Who Like 771 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,320 you know, I gotta stick to the outline. But I 772 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,320 but it doesn't me like a like a conceptual map, 773 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,480 so I know where we're at. They don't want to Yeah, 774 00:56:49,559 --> 00:56:54,840 let's uh, hoss I, Well, I wanted to get this 775 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,440 biographical sort of info out of the way to lay foundation. 776 00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:05,480 We'll get into the substance of Hobsbomb's you know, intellectual 777 00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:09,039 canon in episode two. But I want to I want 778 00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:10,960 to get and we need to get into the dual Revolution, 779 00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:16,519 which is a it's it's a it's a political theoretical 780 00:57:16,519 --> 00:57:23,039 and a sociological postulating concept that was coined, Uh that 781 00:57:23,079 --> 00:57:26,159 was coined by Hosbomb and now in scholarship on the 782 00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:29,400 French Revolution. It's it's just kind of taken. It's just 783 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,159 kind of accepted. It's accepted as like an essential aspect 784 00:57:33,239 --> 00:57:39,159 of of that body of scholarship. But if I, but 785 00:57:39,199 --> 00:57:41,559 if I, that's going to take an hour to dive into. 786 00:57:41,719 --> 00:57:45,519 So let's let's hold off on that. And I think 787 00:57:45,519 --> 00:57:48,599 we're coming on about an hour anyway. So yeah, I 788 00:57:48,679 --> 00:57:52,079 think this would be a natural stopping point if that's acceptable. 789 00:57:53,639 --> 00:57:58,760 Speaker 1: Perfect, All right, Uh, do plugs and we'll talk about 790 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,639 the next episode. 791 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:08,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, I strongly advise, or I mean not advise, 792 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,960 I suggest. It would make me happy if people would 793 00:58:11,039 --> 00:58:13,400 check out my substack. And it's in addition to there 794 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,920 being like my podcast there and like some longer form 795 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:23,719 stuff and a pretty active like chat platform that's where 796 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,840 when I shout out stuff, like you know, events and 797 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,519 inactivities were up on it, it shows up there. It's 798 00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:36,480 a real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com. 799 00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:40,840 This Saturday, we're meeting at Rosewood Cemetery for our Halloween 800 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,039 Cemetery Walk and we're gonna lay some flowers at Confederate 801 00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:49,159 Mound to like honor our forebears and their sacrifice and 802 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,280 for the Orthodox guys and girls. Mercia Eliotti is buried 803 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,960 at the same uh cemetery, and we're gonna pay respects 804 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,679 to him and Eliatti has had a huge effect on 805 00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:07,159 impact on my intellectual development. So we're uh, it's it's 806 00:59:07,199 --> 00:59:10,679 it's gonna be a very positive day, you know. Uh 807 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,679 if somber. But last last year we went to Graceland 808 00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:17,159 Cemetery up on the North Side and it was it 809 00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:21,119 was fantastic and a lot of people showed up. But uh, 810 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,679 you find me on social media. I'm at Capital r 811 00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:30,239 e A L underscore number seven hm as seven seven seven, 812 00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,159 and I'm there just like check the pinned Uh like 813 00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,119 post I you can find like mers that like my 814 00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:42,079 dear friend here Kreig produces, you can find it like 815 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,840 my instagram and my t gram, my website, like all 816 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,320 kinds of stuff. So just uh and if you if 817 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,400 you include some of this stuff in the description, man, 818 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:53,480 that would be a great help. 819 00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:57,000 Speaker 1: I got it all ready to go. I just copy 820 00:59:57,039 --> 00:59:59,679 and paste from the last episode and uh, I put 821 00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:02,480 it right it over so links to your merch and 822 01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:05,679 uh links to the gum Roads. So yep, that's it 823 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,360 until the next time. Thank you very much, Thomas. 824 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:09,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. Wade