WEBVTT 1 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:21.640 You're listening to the Age of Transitions. I'm your host, 2 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.519 Aaron Franz. This is not a live show, it is 3 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:29.039 pre recorded. However, it will be premiering at the Ocelly 4 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.079 Radio Network. Please go to Ocelly dot com and give 5 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:35.079 a donation to keep the network growing and to help 6 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:39.880 chuck out the Age Offtransitions dot com is my website. 7 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.600 Go there to find this podcast, and I also have 8 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:50.240 my book, Revolve Man's Scientific Rise to Godhood there paperback 9 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:55.679 or ebook copies available the Patreon campaign. The link is 10 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.119 at the Age of Transitions dot com. Thank you everybody 11 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:03.000 who follows on Patreon. I just finished the Singularity Summit 12 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.480 series as I mentioned on the last little quick posts 13 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:10.400 to the podcast feed, and I'll be doing more videos 14 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:13.480 coming up in the future that will be posting exclusively 15 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:19.359 to Patreon. Have the affiliate links as well Bookshop dot Org. Ever, 16 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:21.760 buying books online, remember to click through the link on 17 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:24.640 my website first that takes you to bookshop dot Org. 18 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:28.000 Then at that point anything you buy, I'll get a 19 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.120 small amount just for sending you there, so thank you 20 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.280 for that. And promo code Fronds for Libson gets you 21 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.760 two months of Libson Podcast hosting service for free. On 22 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:44.000 this episode, I welcome back my guest from just last show, 23 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:49.760 which is Why, who wrote the Untold Origins of QAnon 24 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.239 article series which is on Medium. I will have his 25 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:59.400 article posts linked in this at the Age of Transitions 26 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.599 dot Com on this episode. In the previous episode with him, 27 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:05.879 I do recommend you go read those articles. So this 28 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:09.159 is a fun show. We picked up where we left 29 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:12.319 off last time, and we start off this show by 30 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.199 talking about Julian Assange. So I hope you enjoy this 31 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:20.960 everybody today, I am welcome welcoming back to the show 32 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:27.520 Why to continue speaking about his unknown q andon Origins 33 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:30.319 article series. So, Hello, how are you doing there? 34 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:33.719 Why good? How are you? 35 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:36.680 I'm well, thank you very much for being here today. 36 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.719 I appreciate it. It's good to be back in talking 37 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:43.080 to you. I guess we'll just pick up where we 38 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.319 left off on the live show that we did a 39 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:50.560 couple of weeks ago. How about you refreshed me. I'm 40 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:52.719 trying to remember what we leave off on. Weren't we 41 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:54.719 going to talk about? I think I remember what was it? 42 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.719 Well, we pretty much got up to wiki leaks. Yes, Julian, 43 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.919 we kind of covered I mean, we kind of covered everything, 44 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:14.360 but in an extremely broad sense. We covered Anonymous a 45 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:19.039 little bit and how that connects to the hacker culture, 46 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:27.719 how that led into sort of the era of QAnon 47 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:32.439 and from the era of twenty eleven and all the 48 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.719 different hacking stuff that was going on around WikiLeaks at 49 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:39.879 that time. Yeah. 50 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.159 Yeah, Now is there anything that you've think that you 51 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:44.159 feel that we missed in the previous show, or just 52 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:46.800 anything you want to expand on that we already talked 53 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:50.000 about or no, Well. 54 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.759 We covered everything in a very, like I said, a 55 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.879 very broad and kind of shallow sense. You could go 56 00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:03.080 into anything in much more detail, but you got to 57 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:06.560 choose something in particular. So I was thinking, like WikiLeaks 58 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:11.599 would be good. I mean, you can't really understand this 59 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:16.519 stuff unless you take it together and in context, so 60 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.360 you can dive into a particular aspect of it. But 61 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.720 it was not going to make sense unless you already 62 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:28.079 understand more of the context. So I think sort of 63 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:34.720 taking it chronologically in multiple passes kind of works better 64 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:39.920 because it allows you to take in the entire story 65 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:45.240 from sort of different aspects, probably speaking, So I think 66 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:48.360 it might be a good idea to just take this 67 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:55.399 time and discuss WikiLeaks from Julian Nosandra's childhood all the 68 00:04:55.399 --> 00:05:00.040 way up through twenty eleven and through twenty sixteen. It 69 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.079 sounds good to me, and it's going to connect. Yeah, 70 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:04.360 and you're going to connect the stuff we were talking 71 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:04.959 about before. 72 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:07.839 Yeah, you're absolutely right, and I'll apologize to you and 73 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:10.680 the audience in that we're only going to be able 74 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.480 to do so much with these podcast episodes for sure. 75 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:16.720 As you're saying, there's so much detail involved in all 76 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:19.680 of this, and that's why I would suggest reading your 77 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.680 article series, which I will once again link at my 78 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:27.160 website so there'll be the link to that. But we'll 79 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:30.000 do what we can. We'll do what we can, and 80 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.519 I think that's a great idea. We'll just hop in. 81 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:34.839 Why don't you just go ahead and tell us all 82 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:37.240 about mister Julian Sonja. I want to hear about this. 83 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.959 Sure. Well, like you were saying, there is so much 84 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:45.720 detail in all of this, and I think in the 85 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.079 past show that we did, you were saying that you 86 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:52.480 wanted to with your show here, you want to try 87 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:56.879 to get to the bottom of all this, And I mean, 88 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.000 I've been researching this a lot over the past few years, 89 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:04.600 and I can say that it's very difficult to get 90 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:08.560 to the bottom of it, but it is possible, and 91 00:06:09.480 --> 00:06:14.759 the stuff is out there and it needs people researching it. 92 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:20.759 But it is very difficult because there's so much. So 93 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:26.959 starting with wiki leaks, maybe you would want to tell me, like, 94 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.079 what do you remember about like the first time that 95 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.439 you heard about wiki leaks are assange? 96 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.560 I'd say a good question, because I feel I've never 97 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.120 deeply looked at it at all. I've only seen the 98 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:44.480 passing stuff with I remember Julining masannge popping up with 99 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.879 the wiki leaks, and the whole idea is like, look, 100 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:52.680 he's making this platform for whistleblowers to post their material. 101 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.120 And do you remember that when it actually started, or 102 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.560 do you remember like the Snowden or the man stuff 103 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:05.879 cable Gate the very first thing there was stuff before. 104 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:09.319 I do recall Snowden, Yes, and then that see I 105 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:12.600 don't even remember if Snowden led into a sane they 106 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.800 were were they like? Was was that part of the 107 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.519 before WikiLeaks was before Snowden even came out. 108 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:26.959 And and Chelsea Manning's leaks were before Snowden's I'm pretty sure. 109 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.120 And that was with Manning. That was cable Gate. That 110 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.839 was the first big thing with WikiLeaks was cable gate, 111 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:43.160 which was military or diplomatic and military cables and stuff 112 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.519 like that, or military files. There was a bunch of 113 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:53.040 files about Iraq, Afghanistan. And then later on Snowden was 114 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:58.680 the NSA stuff, which was also leaked through Wiki leaks, 115 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.319 or at least it was done in coordination with them. 116 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.800 Okay, Okay, So Snowden was working with a songe to 117 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:14.160 release his material, presumably exposing the NSA what they were 118 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:14.519 up to. 119 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.079 Yeah, but before that, it all starts a few years 120 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.759 before any of that. It starts in about two thousand 121 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:25.879 and six, I think. 122 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:28.879 Okay, two thousand, Okay, so what's going on in two 123 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:29.879 thousand and six. 124 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.600 Let's see. Well, in two thousand and six, a Songe 125 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.919 actually writes sort of some conceptual essays about this idea 126 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.519 that he has for how this leaking is going to 127 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:54.600 like dismantle these authoritarian institutions, And the way it's supposed 128 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.440 to work is that it's kind of based on like 129 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:04.720 a cognitive model of communication within institutions, where in order 130 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:09.360 for a secretive institution to exist, the people inside of 131 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:12.360 it need to be able to communicate with each other 132 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:18.240 while keeping the information from leaving the institution, and that 133 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.840 if he gets people to leak information out of them, 134 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.320 it's going to basically make it impossible for the actual 135 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:27.759 people in there to communicate with each other because they're 136 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:29.159 going to become like paranoid. 137 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:33.399 Okay, so it's going to break down their internal communication system, 138 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:38.600 the leaking process. Yeah, Okay, interesting, that's or that this 139 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:39.879 is the concept he's selling. 140 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.720 Yeah, and I have a link to that two thousand 141 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:46.200 essay in my article. 142 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:51.879 Two thousand and six essay by Assange. Now, assannge, who 143 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:53.799 was he and what he what was he doing in. 144 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:56.120 Two thousand and six? What was his role? Like, Well, 145 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:05.399 let's start with his actual child, I guess because so 146 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:10.639 Sang was born in Australia. He's Australian and I think 147 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:20.879 nineteen seventy one. His parents are activists, he doesn't. I 148 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:25.720 think his father leaves pretty quickly, but he stays with 149 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:28.440 his mother for most of his childhood. So there's this 150 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:34.879 there's this period of his childhood where he supposedly his 151 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:38.919 mother's boyfriend is like this abusive cult member and is 152 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:44.120 trying to sort of they're trying to get away from him. 153 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.000 And so he says that they spent several years like 154 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:51.240 moving from place to place trying to get away from 155 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:54.240 this guy. 156 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:54.200 Okay. 157 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:59.440 And that's that's a strange aspect of his childhood, okay, 158 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.840 because they say that he's a member of this cult. 159 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:06.879 The boyfriend whose name is I think his name is 160 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:12.919 Leif Maynell and so and so this cult, you can 161 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.679 actually look it up. It's called the Family, and it's 162 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:21.320 also called the Great White Brotherhood. Okay, it's one of 163 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:27.080 those cults. And and then one of the things that 164 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.000 they did was they would like abduct children basically or 165 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:34.360 find like orphaned children, raise them in this cult, and 166 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:39.120 they would dye all their hair white. Okay, just like 167 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.039 as songe of course. But officially Assange was never actually 168 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:47.600 like part of this. But he does say in pretty 169 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:49.759 much every account of his childhood that I've been able 170 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.600 to find, it talks about him running from this cult 171 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:57.399 because of this this boyfriend of his mom's who was 172 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.399 trying to I guess, get back with them or they 173 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.840 say he was trying to get sort of into Assange's 174 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.279 life kind of like as a father figure or something. Okay, 175 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:12.679 but it's very suspicious because those types of cults come 176 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:14.039 up later in QAnon. 177 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:20.799 Okay, so the do we even want to We'll just 178 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:23.480 reference them. We'll come back to it, the fact that 179 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.399 those cults are a part of q Andon. 180 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:31.879 Right, Let's just say the the concept of the white 181 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:35.759 Hats in QAnon is the same concept as these cults 182 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:37.559 had with this great white brotherhood. 183 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:39.720 Yeahat white Brothers. 184 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:47.320 Like it's it's very strange. So after this period, I 185 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:50.840 think this lasts until Asanje is a teenager and then 186 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.440 he says that at some point he gets old enough 187 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.679 where like this guy comes back and Assans just confronts 188 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.600 him and like tells him to leave and leave him alone. 189 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:07.039 And apparently this kind of ends that period. Okay, so 190 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:09.519 after this, Assan gets into the hacker culture. 191 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.279 Okay, about how old is How old is he at 192 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:13.080 this point. 193 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.480 Assange, he's about fifteen. 194 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.240 Fifteen, Okay, so he's he's a young teenager getting into 195 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.159 the world of the hacker world. 196 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:28.679 Oh yeah, okay, got it, and he actually becomes like 197 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:34.159 extremely good at hacking. There's a book written in nineteen 198 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:40.000 ninety six by Assange and Suile At Dreyfus called Underground, 199 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.759 and this is about the various prosecutions of people in 200 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.720 the Australian hacking culture, which includes as songe. 201 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.799 Okay, so he did he get apprehended early on when 202 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:54.519 he's a young guy? 203 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:59.600 Still he was in his early twenties when he got afriended. 204 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:04.480 I think interesting, Yeah, he would be like twenty or 205 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:05.519 a little bit older. 206 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.080 All right, And what's the official story of he gets caught, 207 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:14.759 like what supposedly happened to him. 208 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:18.000 I don't think that he went to jail. I mean, 209 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:21.320 he gets convicted, okay, but I don't think that he 210 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:22.080 goes to jail. 211 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:23.200 Okay, Okay. 212 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.840 He's trying to hackeno no, no. 213 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:28.080 No, okay, I'm sorry. Continue, I'll jump in here in 214 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:29.480 a minute. But he's trying to hack into. 215 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:34.399 What he's trying to hack in to telecommunications companies. 216 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:39.279 Okay, So the point of I'm sorry, I'm sorry, continue, 217 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:40.840 go ahead. 218 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:46.759 So at this time, in the early nineties and late eighties, 219 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:52.480 really most of it's the late eighties, the hacking culture 220 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.759 is kind of like regional because they don't have the 221 00:14:55.799 --> 00:15:00.360 Internet or access to the Internet is pretty limited. They 222 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:04.720 also have these other international networks, the X twenty five networks, 223 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:10.519 which are packet networks, but they're also limited access. So 224 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.600 a lot of the hacker scenes are based around like 225 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:17.759 local bulletin board services, and then like these hackers are 226 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:21.279 all trying to get onto these bigger networks through like 227 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.559 hacking into like local computers that they can dial into. 228 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.240 So at this point in time, there is kind of 229 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.320 like a well, the Internet itself is just going to 230 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.960 be starting up, and there's also in the hacker culture 231 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:38.440 there's also kind of a it's becoming like international in 232 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:41.559 a way that it wasn't really before, it was. 233 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:44.679 Just starting got it, and did I do want to 234 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:49.080 interject this Assange gets caught early on. 235 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:49.679 He's young. 236 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:53.720 He doesn't seem to do time, is what you're saying, right, 237 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.159 He doesn't really seem to get in trouble. And I 238 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.639 mean one of the patterns with this sort of thing 239 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.279 is if you are into this sort of thing and 240 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:05.919 you're good and you get caught a lot of times 241 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:12.960 you get recruited right by you know, name the agency 242 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:18.039 or you know, group aspect of the government NSA or 243 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.200 what have you. Like, Okay, if you come work with us, 244 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:24.679 you know you're not going to get in trouble, but 245 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.120 you know, we know you're good. So we're recruiting you 246 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:28.559 this way. What do you think about that? 247 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:35.240 Well, people have speculated about that. I don't really know 248 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.519 for sure, yeah, yeah, but it's certainly something that people 249 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.639 have speculated about. 250 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.039 Sure, so it's a possibility. Yeah, we don't know, but 251 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.399 like that's definitely something that has happened with other people. 252 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.639 So who knows if that did happen. I mean it's 253 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:59.320 interesting because if you think about anything with WikiLeaks and Assange, 254 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.720 what most people think is that might be going on 255 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.319 is they think that he's like working for the Russians, right, Okay, 256 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.279 that's the conspiracy that the most, like the normalst normal 257 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.039 conspiracy about him is that, like he helped the Russians 258 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:20.119 hack the election in twenty sixteen, Okay, which would be 259 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.359 kind of strange if he was an asset of the 260 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:27.440 American intelligence exactly. Who knows? 261 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:34.440 Yeah, okay, I had I had forgotten that the story 262 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:38.519 went that Assandra's part of the Russia Gate thing. I 263 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:40.319 did not recall that. 264 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:44.720 Well, I mean, in some sense, he would have to be. 265 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.680 I mean, he was communicating with people, or WikiLeaks was 266 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.799 communicating with people. I think they were communicating with Guzifer 267 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.440 or whatever, and maybe like Roger Stone or some of 268 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.880 those people. Okay, communicating with Wiki leaks and talking about 269 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:05.759 but I mean, even regardless of the particulars, the idea 270 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:11.200 of Russia Gate involves the fact that the WikiLeaks leaks 271 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.960 had to be like part of it somehow, because that's 272 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:18.039 like the Russians would have hacked those emails and given 273 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:21.079 them to WikiLeaks, and WikiLeaks would have like gone along 274 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.519 with it, I see. And you know when they were 275 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.920 releasing that stuff, they were like openly doing it in 276 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.000 order to influence the election. So from that you can 277 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.400 say that they were working with the Russians or something. 278 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:40.400 But all right, well, anyway, I'm sorry to throw that 279 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.200 dadgit in there. Let's continue with a san She's still 280 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:44.640 a young guy. What's he up to now? 281 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.799 Well, interestingly, the next thing that he does is actually 282 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:55.160 he starts one of the early ISPs in Australia. So, 283 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.759 like I was saying, the Internet was just starting up 284 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.319 at that time. Actually, it says here that he gets 285 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:08.000 convicted in nineteen ninety six on Wikipedia. So I'm trying 286 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:10.599 to think of when he started the ISP because I 287 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.400 thought that he started it earlier than that. 288 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:20.000 Really, okays, a lot going on with the aside share interesting. 289 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.920 Well, yeah, so anyway, he seems like he started this 290 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.839 ISP which was called Suburbia dot net in like the 291 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.440 early nineties. Sometimes oh wow, in his conviction or maybe after, 292 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:35.599 I don't know, but it was one of the first 293 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.680 ISPs in Australia. 294 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.799 Okay, Well, he was a busy guy professionally and in 295 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.960 his hacker in the hacker world, he was doing a lot. 296 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.880 In his youth is the young years of his life. 297 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.480 He's getting a lot of things going here. 298 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:59.839 He's kind of involved in activist culture and like just 299 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:05.839 the early Internet culture. He has another website, iq dot org, 300 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.160 which is like his personal site. So you can go 301 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.759 to that, and you can also go to suburbia dot net. 302 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:13.480 Go to either one of those. On the wayback machine 303 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:18.359 you can find old stuff that Assaunch posted. And then 304 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.279 eventually in two thousand and six is when he establishes WikiLeaks. 305 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:27.960 Okay, two thousand and six WikiLeaks. HiT's the scene? Okay, 306 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:29.920 and what was the premiere of that? What was that 307 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.799 looking like. 308 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:35.400 Like the first first thing they did or yeah, yeah, 309 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.240 what was like it's like, okay, here's wiki leagues, Like 310 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.079 what was that? What was going on? Well? He publishes 311 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:46.079 those essays about his concept during the beginning the early 312 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:52.920 period of WikiLeaks. It's kind of more of like aconceptual thing. 313 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.680 He's trying to get people who are interested in this idea. 314 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:01.240 He's trying to build this infrastructure because supposedly they have 315 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:05.720 some kind of really advanced infrastructure that allows people to 316 00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:10.160 leak stuff to them in a way that's untraceable, although 317 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:13.920 I'm not really sure what that consists of. But they're 318 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:20.400 building the actual technology. He's hanging around hacker conventions and 319 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:22.960 speaking about his idea. 320 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.200 Okay, so he's putting the word out there like, hey, leakers, 321 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.680 start leaking, I'm building a platform for you to be 322 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.880 able to do it safely. 323 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:36.799 That's the idea. Yep, okay, yep okay. Interesting. 324 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.920 So it's fascinating to see how these things are put 325 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.160 out just as ideas, like these countercultural ideas first and 326 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.200 then to see what they actually turn into. So this 327 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:53.920 is like the initial that phase where just advertising essentially. Yeah. 328 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:56.880 I think one of the early people who was helping 329 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:58.920 him promote that was Daniel Ellsberg. 330 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.720 Okay, and and quite remember him. I don't I know 331 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:05.000 the name who is Elsberg? 332 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.319 He? I think he's a guy who released the Pentagon Paper. 333 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.880 The Pentagon Papers. Okay, Okay, so he's he's a journalist. 334 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:20.359 Right, yeah, but he's also he like worked for the military, 335 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:25.720 and there's some kind of he worked for the Rand Corporation. 336 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.960 There's some conspiracy stuff about how maybe the Pentagon Papers 337 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:37.839 was limited hangout. Okay, So it's kind of interesting to 338 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.759 see in that context that he would be associated with 339 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.960 wiki leagues. But his images in the public is mostly 340 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.519 that he's kind of like a just like a sane 341 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.920 which is that he's like a guy who believes in 342 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:55.880 transparency and leaking government secrets. 343 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.799 Interesting, okay, so these Okay, So at this point, I 344 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.319 mean it's important just to note that we have a 345 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:12.160 growing list of accepted people given out into the public sphere. 346 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.880 Of these are the countercultural people that are bringing out 347 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.359 the truth of government secrets of corruption, and there is 348 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.400 an infrastructure these people are part of it, and you know, 349 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:26.480 take that for what it is. We're trying to figure 350 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:30.799 out what that even means here, uh, but that's definitely 351 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.240 something that has been going on all along. 352 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:40.440 Yeah. So at this point, we've kind of covered the 353 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:44.680 whole period of history because we know what happens after that. Okay, 354 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:51.920 And like you said, it's it's the counter culture, but 355 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.400 what that actually means seems to have changed greatly from 356 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.880 the time we're talking about with the these guys and 357 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.359 stuff that would start happening after twenty eleven. And it's 358 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.000 also you know, the tech culture of the Internet and 359 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.240 people who were involved with the early Internet and how 360 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:19.720 they thought it was going to change politics. Yeah. 361 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:24.279 Well, there's also that general concept you're alluding to is like, look, 362 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:27.680 here's the Internet. It's going to be the great revealer 363 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:32.279 of all truths, and it's going to swing open the 364 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.880 door of all the secrets that were there before. No 365 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.759 one's going to be able to hide anything. Corruption will 366 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:42.240 be exposed. That's kind of like this idealistic concept that 367 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.880 was put out from the start. These guys are the 368 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:50.960 ones who are very much taking that idea and apparently 369 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:53.279 making it into reality. 370 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:55.440 Suppose. 371 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.000 Yeah, so where are we going with a son from here? 372 00:24:58.799 --> 00:24:59.839 What do we do with this guy? 373 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.880 Well, I guess at this point, what are we trying 374 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:09.000 to what question are we trying to answer about him? 375 00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:15.119 Well, how does he tie into Well, I guess we 376 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.559 spoke to hacker culture, but does he link back to 377 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.839 Anonymous because we were talking about Anonymous in the previous episode. 378 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.240 Does he have any ties of Anonymous or is Anonymous 379 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:31.359 promoting him? And what is the plan that website? Does 380 00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:34.759 that tie into a songe in WikiLeaks somehow? 381 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:40.400 Soonge doesn't really tie into Anonymous in any obvious way. 382 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.759 They both are things that originate from the same kind 383 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.359 of counterculture of the actavist hacker culture. There might be 384 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:55.720 some connections to uncover between some early like two thousand's 385 00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:01.759 and early twenty tens stuff about another Anonymous that that 386 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:07.400 might show some connections there, but he doesn't really seem to. 387 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.960 I mean, by the time Anonymous comes off of like 388 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:17.200 four tan and Assange is like doing He's busy doing 389 00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:23.000 like this wiki leak stuff. He's not like engaging and 390 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:28.039 like trolling and stuff with people like the Anonymous because 391 00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:30.200 the whole thing with Anonymous was supposed to be like that. 392 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.359 They're just having fun with everything. They're not like even 393 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:38.720 though they are like activists, they're also kind of like 394 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.480 supposed to be uh, like the Mary Pranksters or something. 395 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.039 Yeah, and very much Anonymous always comes off as like 396 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:51.759 this art project more than even like activism. 397 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:58.720 Yeah, and there's connections to art subcultures, but like this 398 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.960 kind of stuff is all can in the early cyber 399 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.759 hacker activist culture, but asanj is more on the political 400 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.839 side of it. I know something I can bring in 401 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.079