WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:15.640 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 2 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:19.600 this edition is Charles Kram. He's a US Navy veteran 3 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:23.039 of World War II. Mister Cram served as a Navy 4 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.640 corman embedded with a company, first Battalion, twenty sixth Marines 5 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.039 from the fifth Marine Division in the critical Battle of Ewojima. 6 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:37.200 The battle began on February nineteenth, nineteen forty five. In 7 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:39.799 the course of our conversation, mister Cram will tell us 8 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:43.759 about training as a corman, coming ashore at Ewojima, the 9 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:48.159 vicious fighting, and how he was ultimately wounded and evacuated. 10 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:52.119 Charles Kram was born in March nineteen twenty six. He 11 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.200 was fifteen years old when he learned about the Japanese 12 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:56.719 attack on Pearl Harbor. 13 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.759 I had just come from church and we arrived at 14 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:05.319 our home in Glendale, California, and the news came over 15 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.560 around noontime. I believe it was. At that time, I 16 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:13.359 didn't know that much about it. I didn't realize that 17 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.680 we might be in a conflict where we were going 18 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:16.599 to be in a war. 19 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:20.200 Cram was initially too young to join the service, but 20 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:23.719 he still found ways to help the war effort, including 21 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:26.599 working as a messenger boy, and it was in that 22 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.200 role that he received word of enemy action along the 23 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:31.400 California coast. 24 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.280 That was I was a messenger for the air raid 25 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:38.879 warden there in Berduga Woodlands, which was part of Glendale, 26 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:44.079 and we went out and I remember the search lights 27 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:47.799 were going on all over. We heard that the Japanese 28 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:53.280 were attacking the southern California coast. We didn't ever see any, 29 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.200 but apparently they came in around Fort MacArthur in near 30 00:01:57.319 --> 00:01:59.200 San Pedro, California. 31 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:02.760 By nineteen forty three, Cram was only seventeen years old, 32 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:06.000 but decided he was ready to join the fight. He 33 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.639 explains why he made that decision at such a young 34 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:11.080 age and why he chose the Navy. 35 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.560 I was working, I was going to high school at 36 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:18.000 the time and working after high school doing war work 37 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:21.120 for a company called Gladdie mc bean. And one of 38 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:26.039 the supervisors there was a Navy veteran. He had been 39 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:29.479 discharged from the Navy a result of falling down the 40 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.439 hatch of a submarine and he was out. But he 41 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.240 talked about the merits of the Navy, about clean sheets 42 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:41.680 and one thing or another. So John Newlan, my friend 43 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:45.240 and buddy. We both thought this was great, so we 44 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:48.759 signed up for the Navy in Burbank, California. 45 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.560 From there it was off to basic training in Idaho. 46 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:57.439 My original training was in Los Angeles to get the 47 00:02:57.479 --> 00:02:59.879 train station there and we were to go to Idaho. 48 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.439 At that time, they had a naval facility called Camp Fellragut. 49 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.280 It was in Cord Lane, Idaho, and that's where the 50 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.759 train was going to take us to Spokekane, Washington. And 51 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.719 then from Spokane we went over to Cordlane and that's 52 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.960 where I went through my boot camp training for the Navy. 53 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:22.919 After boot camp, the Navy decided to make Charles cram 54 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:26.199 a Corman, a medic embedded with ground forces from the 55 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:29.639 Marine Corps. He says that decision was based upon his 56 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:30.759 family history. 57 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:36.439 Apparently through the information when you sign up for going 58 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:41.759 into the service, there's information about your parents in their 59 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.120 livelihood and one thing or another, and it happened that 60 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:50.080 my mother happened to be a nurse, and they looked 61 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.560 at the situation and figured from my background, this was 62 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.080 probably a good field to put Charles into. So that's 63 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:01.039 why I ended up in the Navy as a cloud 64 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.879 pharmacists mate or hospital apprentice. 65 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.840 Next came Corman training and Cram explains what he and 66 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.680 the other Cormen were equipped to treat on the battlefield. 67 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.639 Any type of wound that you would get, a gunshot 68 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:18.399 wound to the lung area or to the head, and 69 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:26.079 administering morphine for patients who were able. They were suffering 70 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.199 a lot of pain and you would mark identify these 71 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:33.680 people with a thing on their forehead, so where they 72 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.959 were moved back to a battalion aid station, they knew 73 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:41.399 that they had had morphine injections for pain and one 74 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.639 thing or another, and just the preliminary work that you 75 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:45.639 could do in the field. 76 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.160 Before shipping off to the Pacific theater, Cram and many 77 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:53.800 other personnel took part in very realistic invasion training exercises 78 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:58.000 in places like San Clemente, California, and one of those 79 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.639 exercises involved a surprise visitor. 80 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:05.360 Well, we had walked from Camp Pendleton down to Santa 81 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.399 inefre Beach, which is in southern California on the coastline, 82 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:19.959 and from there we practiced landings in vehicle LCVP landing 83 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:24.639 craft vehicle personnel. We made landings on the southern California coast. 84 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:28.519 But prior to that, we made landings on San Clemente Island, 85 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:33.000 which was a naval station that was out on the 86 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.560 Pacific col and off the southern California coast. And then 87 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.920 from there we came back in and we had attacked 88 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:44.959 southern California beaches, and at that time when we landed 89 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.959 on the area of the beach, we were going through 90 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:52.399 all sort of simulated gunfire and everything else. And after 91 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.639 that quieted down a little bit, we looked up on 92 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:56.759 the top of the hill there. They told us to 93 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.800 look up there and lo and behold who was there? 94 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:03.079 The President of the United States, who at that time 95 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:08.439 was Franklin D. Roosevelt. And then from there we had 96 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.279 the joyful word that you head back to your tent 97 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:17.439 camp or the camp area at Camp Pendleton and start 98 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:22.279 preparing for invasion and fighting the Japanese. 99 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:25.120 From there it was off to Hawaii for more training 100 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.240 and then to Saipan. Only after departing from there and 101 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.839 heading farther west did they start to figure out where 102 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:33.839 they would be fighting. 103 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:36.120 And then at that time we realized we were going 104 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.680 to go into combat. They didn't tell you where, but 105 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.439 I think the word came out that where we were 106 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.600 going to go was situated like a pork chop. If 107 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.160 if you looked at a pork chop, this would be 108 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.519 the outline of what Ewojima would look like. 109 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:55.920 By mid February nineteen forty five, it was time for 110 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.759 the invasion of Ewojima. Charles Kram walks us through his 111 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.079 memory from the night before to the morning of the landing. 112 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:09.680 Well, the night before the invasion, I slept on top deck. 113 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:15.000 Below deck. You were in not bunks, but kind of 114 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:18.279 like hammocks, and there are about seven deep in there, 115 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:22.399 and it was hot, and I just couldn't sleep that well. 116 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:26.560 But you could get out on the deck, and they 117 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.600 wouldn't allow you to even wear a watch which had 118 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:33.120 a fluorescent glow to it, for fear that maybe somebody 119 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.600 would be able to see the thing and bomb the 120 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.439 ship or something. But anyway, I stayed out on the 121 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:42.079 what do you call it, till the early morning shp 122 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:47.040 shelling started on eve Jima, and then from there went 123 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.720 back down and I think I believe it was two 124 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:53.680 o'clock in the morning. We had steak and eggs. That's 125 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:57.920 a good combat breakfast, I guess They figured troops were 126 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:01.040 going to need good food and healthy body. So that's 127 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.560 what we had that morning, what do you call it? 128 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:08.319 And then later the morning we knew all the shelling 129 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:11.839 that was going on on the island and a naval 130 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:14.439 gunfire that was going on and everything else. We knew 131 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:15.800 we were going to go in there, and we didn't 132 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.879 go in until around eleven or twelve in the morning, 133 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:21.920 I guess it is what he called. We didn't go 134 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.319 in on the track vehicles at that time. Some of 135 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:28.279 the original people at the nine o'clock morning went in 136 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:33.039 on track vehicles, amtraks and water buffaloes or things of 137 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.120 that nature. But we went in what we called LCVPs 138 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:40.720 landing craft vehicle personnel where the gate went down, the 139 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:44.039 front door went down, and you went charging out of it. 140 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.600 When it was time to go. Cram says he landed 141 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:49.279 at a time the Japanese were no longer covering the 142 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:52.840 beach with withering fire, but there was still plenty of 143 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.399 chaos from all of the vessels disabled and destroyed along 144 00:08:56.440 --> 00:09:00.360 the shore. Cram explains what he saw and did from 145 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.279 the landing until later that first day on Ewo Jima. 146 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:07.480 Well, it was kind of hairy because we didn't know 147 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:11.039 what to expect it, and some of the beaches had 148 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:14.960 been so cluttered up with equipment not being able to 149 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:19.799 get in there, and with the volcanic sand and ash 150 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:23.080 that they had from the volcanoes on that island, it 151 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:26.360 made it rather difficult. So some of the original plans 152 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:30.559 didn't go as they were supposed to. But we eventually 153 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.679 landed down on the beach there and I remember digging 154 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:40.360 into a fox hole in the granite and the volcanic 155 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:43.320 ash there. I had a little book that I had. 156 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:47.080 It was a Catholic missionary book, and I opened it 157 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.559 up and it just opened up to a page called 158 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.720 the Active Resignation, and I said, oh, my Lord, maybe 159 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:56.720 this is the end of things. So anyway, I read 160 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:01.039 that and tried to get formulated with with the company 161 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.360 that we had and try to take care of some 162 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:06.440 of the fellows. As we moved off the beach, we 163 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.480 moved over to the one end of the island. We 164 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.080 were down where the a big volcano was, where Mount 165 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:18.000 Serabacci was, where the Japanese were pretty well dug in, 166 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:21.279 and that's we moved from there and camped at the 167 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:27.000 base of Mount Serabacci that night. In fact, the area 168 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:30.360 that we dug into, well, you didn't really have to 169 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.159 dug there were a lot of artillery holes and mortor 170 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.960 shell holes, and you had a place where we could 171 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.320 dig in, but some of that volcanic sand would come 172 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.000 in on you. And the area that we dug into 173 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:47.080 was an old bayonet course, so it was kind of 174 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:51.440 spooky that night. Who we didn't know whether the Japanese 175 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:53.960 were coming in on unswer what was going on that 176 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:56.960 way because of the statues and things that they used 177 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:58.639 for bayonnet course. 178 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:02.720 Training's first thoughts were looking out for the Marines and 179 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:06.600 his company, and that included the specialized troops that were 180 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:07.039 with them. 181 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:11.240 My direct influence in the situation was with Company A, 182 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.240 first Vettack twenty six Marines was as a first platoon, 183 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.039 which also I took care of the assault squad, which 184 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:24.480 was the flamethrowers and var and the demolition people as 185 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:29.240 well as the regular mortar people and the infantry people 186 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.399 in Company A. In the Infantry division there was a 187 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.279 machine gun squad and the rest of those. So I 188 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.120 was pretty well worked up with what I was doing. 189 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:42.000 That's Charles Cram a US Navy veteran of World War 190 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:44.639 Two who served as a corman for a company of 191 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:48.360 Marines on Iwo Jima. Still to come, the flag raising 192 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.879 at Mount Surabaci, fighting an invisible enemy and how he 193 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:59.080 was wounded. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans' chronicles. 194 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:01.759 Sixty seconds of Service. This sixty Seconds of Service is 195 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:05.120 presented by T Mobile. T mobile offers exclusive discounts for 196 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:08.159 a veteran and military families and are proud supporters of 197 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:12.039 the National Defense Network. 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The treatment utilizes 206 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:42.559 hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is a pressurized chamber to deliver 207 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:46.279 one hundred percent oxygen significantly increasing the levels in the 208 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.440 body's tissues. Today's sixty seconds of Service is brought to 209 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:53.080 you by Prevagen. Prevagen is the number one pharmacist recommended 210 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.759 memory support brand. You can find Prevagen and the Vitamin 211 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:57.799 Aisle in stores everywhere. 212 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.159 This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbas. Our guest in 213 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:06.320 this addition is Charles Cram, a US Navy veteran of 214 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:10.600 World War Two. After pressing on from the landing beaches 215 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.600 and surviving the night in the eerie bayonet training fields, 216 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:19.360 combat against the Japanese forces proved difficult. In the early 217 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.559 days were full of encouraging advances and disappointing retreats. 218 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:29.399 Well, we moved back, and I can't remember the exact date, 219 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:34.639 but after we had moved back and kind of got 220 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.039 organized a little bit more, we went up the side 221 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:40.120 of the island and we got there, and then we 222 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:44.679 had to retreat back again. The Japanese had put in 223 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.320 a freshure. Honestly, we had to retreat back a little bit, 224 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.080 and then we stayed there, and then the next day 225 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.039 we started moving ahead again. So it was kind of 226 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.879 up and down, and we did the best we could 227 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:57.519 at the time. 228 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.919 Like the other Navy coreman serving along side the Marines. 229 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:03.879 Charles Kram was right in the middle of it. 230 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:05.919 That was right on the front line. You couldn't get 231 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:09.679 any farther I had than where we were at, and 232 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.320 Company A did what they could. I mean, we would 233 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:17.919 be on frontline two or three days and hopefully try 234 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:19.960 to move ahead. We move ahead a little bit and 235 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.559 then have to be moved back again because we couldn't 236 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:28.519 get into the cliff area where some of these implanted Japanese, 237 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.600 where they had firepower that they could shoot us. 238 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:35.240 One of the biggest challenges for Cram was gauging when 239 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.679 it was safe enough to emerge and care effectively for 240 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:42.320 a wounded marine. He says he had no commanders giving 241 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:46.679 him orders, and deciding when to act was entirely upon 242 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:48.759 his eighteen year old shoulders. 243 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:53.720 You didn't have a company commander or somebody like that, 244 00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:00.440 an order of seniority that says, hey, cram out there 245 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.000 and do which you could. You were trained to take 246 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:07.279 care of the troops that you were connected with, the 247 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:12.879 infantry troops or the assault squad troops that were injured. 248 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:19.039 If somebody yelled Corman, we'd entertained the idea where the 249 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:23.639 thing was in an area like Iwajima. Because of the 250 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:29.279 closeness of everything, everything was with somebody within five or 251 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.960 ten feet of where you were. The front lines were 252 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:37.559 twenty yards or so away from where your lines were. 253 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.200 It would end up with some of the troops. I 254 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.919 was never involved with hand to hand combat, but I 255 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:49.399 knew part of our company when the Japanese were trying 256 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.440 to infiltrate our lines, got involved not only with hand 257 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.240 grenades to kill them as they were coming in, but 258 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.840 actually got involved with hand to hand combat with the Japanese. 259 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.279 And Cram says the injuries he was seeing were not 260 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:05.519 for the faint of heart. 261 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:10.840 They were mostly wounds that were pretty pretty ghastly. As 262 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.759 far as the damage was concerned, it wasn't so much 263 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.519 from just rifle shots or anything. It was more from 264 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.120 artillery or mortar shellings and things of that nature. 265 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.840 Cram says it could be a complicated process to treat, stabilize, 266 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:31.039 and evacuate the wounded, especially with a huge battle playing 267 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.080 out on a very small island. 268 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.279 Well, initially there was a big problem because you had 269 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.759 the stretcher bearers and the other people who went out 270 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.639 to get these troops that were there. It was a 271 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:48.519 lot of commotion in the initial landings on I Regima 272 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:53.080 on the first day, there was a lot of chaotic situations. 273 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.080 You just couldn't depend You did what you could, and 274 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.159 that was the best of it until he organized a 275 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.279 little bit more the second and third day. 276 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.559 Cram and his company of marines also got a good 277 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.920 view of the most iconic moment of the week's long battle, 278 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.160 the raising of the American flag atop Mount Surabaci. 279 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:14.480 From the vision where we were at the base of 280 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.880 Mount Sarabacci, where we're being called off the front line 281 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:20.720 back to the rear area, we could look up there. 282 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:22.640 We could see that we didn't know what was going on. 283 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:25.319 People would try to tell us what was going on, 284 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:27.440 and then we would see the flag go up on 285 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:31.240 the Mount Serabacci. Because Sera Bacci had apparently was five 286 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.319 seven hundred feet up in the air there was an 287 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:35.359 ex volcano. 288 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:39.160 Cram says the sight of Old Glory being raised was 289 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:43.599 a great morale boost and a misleading indication of how 290 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.240 long the fight on Iwo Jima would last. 291 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:48.599 Oh yes, we thought that was going to be the 292 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.799 end of the war. We were attacking what it calls 293 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.799 an American flag going up on the top of Mount 294 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.559 Sera Bacci. We thought this is going to be what 295 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.240 do you call it? But it wasn't there. It was 296 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.640 just a preliminary invasion. Because most of the Japanese forces 297 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:08.519 were being directed from the northern part of the island, 298 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:15.079 and through their communication system they developed from the south, 299 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:19.440 they lied infiltration. They would get troops at night to 300 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:22.640 try to get through our lines or try to cause 301 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:23.720 problems with us. 302 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.359 That's Charles Kram, a US Navy veteran of World War 303 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.000 Two and the Battle of Ewojima. When we come back, 304 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:34.400 Cram tells us what he saw in the Japanese caves 305 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:38.920 and tells us how he was wounded. I'm Greg Corumbus, 306 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:44.839 and this is Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm 307 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.960 Greg Corumbas. Our guest in this edition is Charles Kram. 308 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.680 He's a US Navy veteran of World War Two and 309 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:55.519 served as a corman with a company of marines during 310 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.960 the first several days of the Battle of Ewojima in 311 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:04.000 February nineteen forty five. As Kram explained earlier, the fight 312 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:08.160 against the Japanese ebbed and flowed and the biggest challenge 313 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:12.079 for the Marines is that the enemy was largely invisible. 314 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.880 You couldn't see the enemy and you didn't know where 315 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.720 they were, but you knew they were trying to get 316 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.960 in filtright through your lines to go through there, and 317 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.680 it was became very stressful at that time. I couldn't 318 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.839 go out at that time and treat any anybody. I mean, 319 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.599 you stayed in your fox hole and you're ready for 320 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.240 Japanese if they jumped into the foxhole with you. 321 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:40.400 Undaunted, the Marines made their way to higher ground and 322 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.359 were finally able to confront the caves from which the 323 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:45.680 Japanese were launching their attacks. 324 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.680 Well, that had been after we had been on the 325 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.319 front line. We'd been on frontline for four days, and 326 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.720 they would bring some of the chow or food that 327 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:03.720 we would have. We had mostly rations. There's breakfast, dinners, 328 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:07.640 and suppers they called it. That was for about four 329 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:11.039 days we were doing that, and we were pulled back 330 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.319 to area where we could see what was going on, 331 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.880 and that was I'm trying to remember on a daily 332 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.920 basis whether it was the fourth or fifth day that 333 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.519 the flag went up on the top of Mount Sarabachi. 334 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.400 That's where I could see. We were down at the bottom. 335 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.480 We could see commotion going on up there, and the 336 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.079 twenty eighth Marines had made me we knew they were 337 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:37.119 on that part of the island, and they'd gone up 338 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.319 and made the flag racing there. And then from there 339 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.359 on I went snooping around with part of the assault squad. 340 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:49.319 We got into some of the caves and one thing 341 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:52.759 or another that had been shelled, and one thing or another, 342 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.839 and there were a lot of Japanese soldiers that we 343 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.960 were dead there. And I had picked up piece of equipment. 344 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.799 I thought it was a good good thing to take 345 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.559 back as a souvenir, but it wasn't. It was some 346 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.119 part of an artillery piece. But I think the important 347 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.759 thing was that I had found a Japanese soldier and 348 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.160 I had taken the flag. They wrapped it around their 349 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.720 waist and I had taken it off of him, and 350 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.559 I have that as a souvenir of I Regima. 351 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:24.799 At that time, the Japanese were famous for turning the 352 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:28.599 islands they held into fortresses because of their ability to 353 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.400 hide in caves and tunnels and even build living quarters, 354 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:36.599 medical facilities and more. Underground. It's also how they were 355 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:41.000 able to withstand the relentless Allied bombardments prior to our 356 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.480 amphibious landings throughout the Pacific. But when Cram got a 357 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:47.440 peek inside the caves, he just saw how they were 358 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.680 used to attack his fellow Americans. 359 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:54.480 They were mostly battle conditions where they put snipers and 360 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:59.240 other people who had a clear avenue of sight of 361 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.680 troops coming in on them, where they could shoot at 362 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.119 them and one thing or another. So that was my knowledge, 363 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:08.200 and I remember getting into some of those caves and 364 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.960 there were Japanese that had been killed as a result 365 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.960 of either bombings and maybe their bodies had been brought 366 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:16.880 back in Again. 367 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.759 Cramp says it's hard to remember the day to day 368 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.880 developments in the battle, pointing out that the longer the 369 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.240 fight went and he and the Marines hardly got any sleep, 370 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:29.799 it became almost impossible to tell one day from another. 371 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:33.720 No, everything seemed to run together. I mean, you didn't 372 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.480 really have time. You worried about your own safety and 373 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.079 the safety of the men that you were treating or 374 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.200 going to treat. Felt as that you'd been in field 375 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.279 training back in Hawaii or back here in the state plan. 376 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:53.279 I lived with these Marines as a Navy veteran. I 377 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:56.200 was in the Navy, but I spent most of my 378 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:01.200 time with the Marine Corps. And you learn the habits 379 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:04.559 of how marines were treated and how you lived is 380 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.480 what he called the staff nco officer, and how you 381 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.759 ate with these people, they were your life. 382 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.240 The action at night brought an added dimension of danger 383 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.799 as the Japanese used the cover of darkness to emerge 384 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:23.519 and tried to infiltrate enemy lines. In those dire moments, 385 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.400 Cramp found himself lobbing grenades towards the enemy alongside the Marines. 386 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.240 Yeah, that we had been been moved up from the 387 00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:33.440 first or second day. We moved up on the front 388 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:38.720 lines there and we were infiltrated because the Japanese at 389 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.640 that time apparently were trying to move some of their 390 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.119 troops from the southern island, the southern portion of the 391 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.200 island where Sarabachi was, and get them back to the 392 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.119 northern end of the island. So they had what they 393 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.640 called the Bonzai attack. They would come in the middle 394 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.519 of the night and tried to get through the lines. 395 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:02.160 And at that time I remember with the group that 396 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:08.039 I was with Sergeant Kelleherne and Billy Graham in the 397 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:12.319 fox hole there. We were throwing fox hand grenades out 398 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.000 about as fast as we could because the Japanese were 399 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:16.200 coming through there. 400 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:20.519 And it wasn't just the grenades. Cram also recounts firing 401 00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:23.240