Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another episode of
geek Verse podcast. I am one of your hosts. I
guess I'm still the Scooby Doo Taylor Field, and I'm joined.
Speaker 2: By I wondered what that nickname was. Maybe sounds like
not related at all, but I am the Ann Pardcaster Illness.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we are here tonight continuing our Greek of
the its Welcome to Dairy TV show. We are on
episode six tonight, Ladies and gentlemen, Oh my gosh, it's
gonna be a good time. Before we get into our
quick non spoilers and spoilers thoughts, check us out on
the Patreon. We get ad free early exclusive content available there.
And our patren producers Aaron Braden, April of Darkness, Jack Grant,
Sam super Bad, Mic Thata, God Leves Me sixty nine,
Charlie Randell Cocktail, Clay John with Noh, Sam Green. That
is just a roster right there, A magnificent lineup, love
it Yeah, and then other quick plugs that we got
going on. We did a running Man review. What else
do we do? We got newscasts and I feel like
it's just been a bit of a break between you
the last time I was on an episode. But I
know that Travis did the Stranger Things the first volume review, right,
so definitely go check out that. And what about side questill,
and let's popping off?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, this week will be a fun one. We're
gonna have the whole squad on for Game Awards predictions.
Game Awards is not this coming week but the week after,
so yeah, this week we're gonna have all of us
doing predictions on there for the categories and some announcements,
and then next week I'll do my little solo casting
my votes thing and then yeah, we'll have some coverage
of that. So it should be hopefully some big juice
at the Game Awards. Usually a couple of big trailers
there at the very least, just fun to see what
wins and all that good stuff. So yeah, it should
be a good couple weeks of Side Question.
Speaker 1: Nice, I love it. Yeah, I think upcoming movies. I
think the only real thing we got cooking is Avatar
this month. And I know Travis is like fifty to
fifty but leaning into a no, so I think it's
gonna be a Me and Kirkland unless Dylan Nless you
feel okay and do it.
Speaker 2: I'm good. No, you guys got it.
Speaker 1: You guys got it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't want to get any more hate mail from
James Cameron fans, so.
Speaker 1: Right, right, they're always lurking. Uh cool, Well without further ado. Uh, Dylan,
what uh? What are you feeling? What's your temperature on
this this episode? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean I hinted to you before we started here
that like, if you don't have much to say about
this episode, and I kind of think that's part for
the course. I feel like I should do. I feel
like I should get some stats on this, but I
feel like episode six of an eight episode thing is
like kind of a low point in a lot of series,
like the penultimate episodes where you want that big juice,
then you want to close it out strong, and so
I feel like the sixth spot is kind of where
we're just I don't know, nothing much has happened, We're
just kind of dragging things out a little bit. And
I kind of feel like this episode to me is
you know, like every movie, no matter what, whether it's
comedy or drama or action, always like kind of between
the second and third act, there's always this point when
like protagonists of the movie, like have a little breakup
and they're mad at each other and they're not talking,
and there's like a little montage of them doing their
own solo thing and they're sad and they're dejected in
their heads down, and then they always come back together
and then like you know, Act three happens, they win,
they save the day, everyone's happy.
Speaker 1: That was this episode.
Speaker 2: So it was like thirty minutes of like characters just
being mad at each other, and it's meaningless because we
all know next week they're gonna get back together make
their final plan, and then next the week and after
that they're gonna you know, defeat it and the series
will be over. So it just felt like we're dragging
our heels here a little bit. At least it all
goes to plan. But I just can't imagine any of these,
you know, characters that got mad at each each other
this week, are actually gonna stay mad at each other.
They already kind of got over it. So it just
felt like we were kind of doing nothing. But then
there is one huge Lord dump character thing in this
episode that I honestly feel a little under not underwhelmed,
under equipped to talk about it. Almost I feel like
I don't get it fully, so we can have that
fun conversation because I need to hear what your interpretiation
of this is. And it's potentially huge and really interesting
and has big implications for like the series as a whole,
if you want to say that. Also, I wanted to
have one show out here at the top is if
anyone's not in our discord, definitely join our discord because
every week April, one of the patron producers over there,
she's always jumping in the IT chat that we have
and drop in just like amazing bits of lore and
like connection of characters, things that go way over my head.
And it's always a bit of like correction. After we
do the review and I'm reading through that, I'm like, oh, yeah,
I missed all this stuff. So definitely join the discord
and just read that stuff. I find it fascinating. But
I'm at the point where, like, I can't wait to
hear what her interpretation is of this stuff in this
episode because she'll probably have all these other connections that
I don't have. So interesting in the back half there
with some of that stuff, but overall, is the episode
a little bit of drag, But like I said, I
kind of expected that somewhat, and yeah, I do think
we are set up for what should be a good
one two punch penultimate final episode combo. But this episode
was just you know, a bridge we had to cross.
So that's kind of where I'm at with this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I uh well said I it's it's it's pretty
pretty in line with how you put it with movies
having that kind of tribulation amongst our heroes, like oh,
they're breaking off like your Goblet of Fire where Harry
and Ron are just kind of and that's literally like
movies have. Yeah, I mean even the first Chapter one
did that too, right with a Loser's Club. They broke
off for a little bit there. So it's just yep,
it's end of chapter two.
Speaker 2: Chapter two always happening.
Speaker 1: It's always happening. Yeah, So yes, you're getting you're getting
that dynamic in here, and there's, yeah, the one very interesting,
big kind of reveal with that one character that's gonna
be interesting to break down. But uh yeah, I don't
think there was. There wasn't really a huge amount of
juice in this episode. I will admit, even though the
show is still at a really really warm temperature for myself.
And there was one kind of cinematic thing they did
here that kind of ties into the character that will
break down and talk about where visually. I was so
on board with it. I thought it was really really cool.
But I'm lacking an understanding of it. So come tomorrow,
I'm going into the discord. I'm gonna be like, April,
you gotta drop some details here for me, because I'm
kind of at a loss myself. It's definitely trying to
I don't want to say fill the void, but just
kind of pave the road a little bit and show
off a little bit more, I guess, just with the
lore and things like that. That aside, I made a
prediction and this is not a spoiler last week that
oh I thought halla Ann is going to be kind
of out of the picture. He is not out of
the picture. So again he's around, He's around, and again
everything with him, I'm just I'm eating It just feels like, well,
he's parallel and he's part of the story with Penny Wise.
It feels like he's just kind of in his own
his own path forward and I'm just I'm loving all
of that. Whenever he talks about like his gifts and
he's just he's doing his weirds any things. It's just
it's really really awesome to take that in and see
it because I don't know, I don't know why. I've
just kind of gravitated that character in the Shining and
just so seeing him present here, it just it works
for me. But a great actor, Oh my gosh, really
really great actor. But yeah, how things have gone. This
episode has definitely set up a pretty significant penultimate episode,
I'd say, because we have it's eight episodes, right, it's
just ye or yeah, okay, so yeah, next week it'll
be like, okay, we're things are hitting the fan now,
so it'll be interesting to see what what goes down there.
But that I don't think I really have anything else
to add. Yeah, so we can just we can just
get right into this. So what what big nugget do
you want to start with? Spoiler wise?
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we'll build up to the you know, big
thing going on here and we'll talk about let's talk
about your your boy hallerin first here. So yeah, interesting
fallout for I guess all the characters here from obviously
last week it was a huge episode with everyone going
into the sewers where there was like multiple groups of
characters all going in there just happened to be at
the same time. And now we're getting like the fallout
of what all of that means for all of them.
And I thought it was really interesting to see what
happened to hallerin here, and I think it makes a
lot of sense. Like obviously going into this place where
there's just he obviously that huge moment a ton of
uh for everyone it was like just fucking with their minds.
But for someone like him who has the shining and
it has these powers, I guess it just affects him
on like multiple levels, right, and like exponentially more than
other people. And so we saw that a lot of
people were pretty spooked and they were pretty you know,
freaked out, and obviously was causing them to lash out
against their friends or uh. In case of Leroy, like
hitting his child, which is like really fucked up, and
he blames it directly on that, which is probably true
to some extent also him not being a great guy,
but you know that obviously just shows like how much
being in that place and close to Penny Wise just
kind of has this aura that messes with people but
with hallerin it just hits on you know, he has
this this otherworldly connection that not many people do, and
so for him it had like this even greater effect.
And then again like hitting the bottle, you know, just
getting drunk and wasted. I feel like that must affect
him more than it affects other people too, right, just
like hitting his brain in like different ways and making
him react in you know, exponentially stronger ways. And then
on top of that, like I was not, I was,
I was surprised to see that this clubhouse that they
were building up is like done now, and they just
had like a huge thrasher here. Like I thought this
is gonna be like a kind of a hidden place,
but now obviously it's like extremely public, so much so
that there's like a whole squad of people showing up
the door. That's kind of like the cliffhanger of the episode.
But yeah, what did you think of the Haller and stuff,
because I thought it was really interesting to see like
just that extremely you know pendulum swing that he had
of like the the high highs, not that he was
having high highs, but just you know, experiencing really big things.
And then he just has like an exponentially bigger traumatic
response to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're I like that the way with
like the high highs you put that, because I feel
like he's on base. He's definitely feeling kind of invincible.
He's getting what he wants. He can he can tell
the higher ups that hey, I want this, I want that,
and he feels like he's I don't want to say untouchable,
but he feels very powerful because he's got these abilities
and he's got the military backing him, right, So it
puts him into a very I don't want to say ego,
but a certain type of mindset. And ever since that
first episode to where we are now, it has just
been kind of getting eroded more and more and more
to now it's at the point where he just he
needs to be drinking. He can't handle it. And I
love it so much. How we got that bit of
dialogue in this episode where he's breaking down. Okay, when
I was young, my grandma, you know, she had this
ability too, not as strong as mind, but she taught
me how to deal with it and how to put
everything in a box. You know, classic shining stuff. We've
seen that before. And how he just breaks down how
this thing penny Wise went into his mind and just
forced that box open and everything came coming out, and
I'm seeing all this shit again, like fuck, this is
just so cool and and everything that he says too,
like you know, we went down there, we pissed this
thing off, like this thing doesn't like it. And again,
probably one of my favorite scenes. And i'd have to
think about all the TV shows that we've seen this year.
I haven't really I haven't really watched many, but even
in comparison to movies, that scene when Haluran is just
like going and he's holding in the helicopter, touching the
artifact and he just appears in Pennywise's layer and penny
Wise like, ooh are you It's like fuck, That's got
to be one of my favorite scenes, and it's just
like cinematic things this year. Is such a good scene.
And so since then, I feel like penny Wise has
just been really kicking him down every chance he gets,
because this person on a psychic level is such a
new and just a rival for Pennywise. So I'm really
really liking it, and it'll be interesting to see how
he pulls out of this again that conversation with Hanlan
or Hanlan's like you need to do your duty, soldier
and get back in the fight, and Katherin's like, no,
did you not hear a single word? I just said,
like they're saying things that we're not supposed to hear
as living people. Like there's just there's so much juice there.
I really love it.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, I I totally agree with you
on all that. I guess, moving along to the the
kids and what's going on there, so there's kind of
multiple things like I kind of hinted at with like
the kind of soft breakup between Ronnie and Lily. They
kind of have their little moment there, which you know,
like I said, probably just gonna be friends again next episode.
And then you know, we've got like a couple kind
of romantic little threads Ronnie and Will. And then also
I don't even remember the other the other two kids' names,
but like Little's friend and the other guy who was
ripping up the drums in this episode, which I thought
they had like a little goofy scene on that that
that rooftop that's getting a lot of a lot of
screen time this season. So there was all that but
the one thing I wanted to ask you about that
because I don't think there's too much to of interest
for me. There is when Lily was holding the I
don't know what we're calling it, the spike, the Pennywise, meteor, fragment,
whatever you want to call it, and I feel like
she was really tapping into like her her fro Do there,
and like just the the it seemed like this thing
was changing her in the way Frodo when he's holding
the ring, and over time he becomes, you know, more snappy,
and it's like he's clearly not himself anymore. He's being
infected by the ring. And I kind of felt like
that was maybe what the director said to her, like,
hey be like fro Do in this, like just kind
of snap a little bit, as if this thing's like
you're right driving you a little bit mad. So I
don't know, do you think it was the circumstance or
do you think like literally holding that fragment or keeping
it around her is also somewhat unraveling her mind.
Speaker 1: It's definitely doing something, and we don't know the extent
of like what this thing can do, right, I mean,
this is an unknown element that's not natural to this
to earth, right, So I mean when you when you're
looking at this thing that was in the possession of
this tribe for so long and they were taking care
of it, they obviously understood it and they knew what
they were doing with it. In the context of this
little girl, I don't know, Like, you're dealing with energies
that are forcing you to be afraid, and penny Wise
is there to like mess around with your mental state,
and so when you're dealing with something that can inhibit
that and actually like shield it, then I don't I
think it's going to have other effects too. I could
be reading too much into it. So it really depends.
One of my favorite things was when she was in
the classroom and again no one else can see what's
going on, but that thing is glowing because penny Wise
is actually there fucking with her. And I really like that.
So that kind of helps you understand, like and just see, like, Okay,
this is actually a real time event going on.
Speaker 2: Did she not have the fragment on her in that moment?
Speaker 1: She did? She had it on her lap.
Speaker 2: I feel like, how was it then that Pennywise was
able to get so close to her.
Speaker 1: I think like it's it's it's the same distance too,
right from where he was before and the sewers when
he was like present there. But I think like he
was just able to He couldn't do anything to her directly,
but I think he was able to get close enough
to just fuck with her.
Speaker 2: Okay, he can't like touch her, maybe that's literal thing
like her skin or something like that. Yeah, Yeah, he couldn't, like,
let put a finger on her. So yeah, I guess
that makes sense because yeah, and the sewer when it
fended him off, she wasn't holding it. It was like, yeah,
like a couple meters in front of her whatever, and
that's kind of where he couldn't pass it. Yeah, So
that that is something that I think as well, Like
was it just because that creature thing was in the
desk that other people couldn't see it, or was it
Pennywise making it so only.
Speaker 1: She could see that? Well, that's the thing with penny Wise,
because let's say Bev in the first movie, only she
Well I guess the other kids too, but they've had
interactions with the Pennywise, right, But for her and her
dad's point of view, the dad didn't see any of
the blood in the bathroom, but Bev did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think the differentiation is usually like just
kid adult, but this seemed a bit different because obviously
as a classroom full of kids.
Speaker 1: And I think if the other friends were there, I
bet you the friends would see it too, because it's like,
I can't Marge was her name. Heurt with the eyes right,
the eye situation, and then Lily was able to see that, right.
So I think when they've had experiences with Pennywise, then
it's like a shared thing that they can mutually see, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And obviously, like part of Pennywise and how he's able
to manifest is through the fear angle. And I guess
like these other kids who are just in class during
the day and they're surrounded by kids and a teacher,
and they haven't had a weird experience, like they don't
really have any fear in that moment. They probably feel
very safe in that classroom, so they don't aren't obviously
aren't like on a edge, whereas Lily is still kind
of tripping out over the huge event that just experienced,
like yesterday in the sewer, I've kind of spread she
went to school but I guess she kind of has
to where else her mom would get mad and send
her back to a to the uh mental juniper till yeah,
junibrail again.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So that's always just kind of like looming
over her right and kind of forcing her in these situations.
But she she turned her back on it. I was like,
I'm out, I'm going, which.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, even though, but yeah, what do you think
there's gonna be funny? Followed though, her like having this
big moment because I was really worried that in the classroom,
her having this freak out in front of everyone, in
front of the teacher, walking out.
Speaker 1: I was worried.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, is she just gonna get
sent back and we're just gonna do this again, even
though she's already been sent there like twice in this series,
and then like last time, she just like walked out
the next day and it was such a nothing burger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't need to see her kind
of go back there, and I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think we have time if there's only two episodes, like,
I don't think we really have the bandwidth to do that.
Speaker 1: Right, No, no time. I mean they got they got
a lot that they got to deal with now because
they've really kind of escalated the story a little bit
in other areas, So he're going back to Juniper Hill
doesn't really do much. I think it's even in the
flashback sequence. We spent time there, and I feel like
that just alone kind of like closes that door Juniper Hill.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I was worried that was like foreshadow
or something that was like, oh, we're seeing this at
the start of the episode. At the start of THEPS,
you don't really know what it's about obviously until you
get that scene later. I was like, Okay, is are
we just setting up Juniper Hill and then he's gonna
go back there? But obviously there was a whole lot more.
But yeah, any anything else with the kids specifically, I
mean there's things we didn't break down, but like, I
don't know if there's really a whole lot of sauce there.
Speaker 1: No. I mean they're they're having fun at the club.
You know, they're dancing, they're playing drums, you know, they're bonding,
which I think that's a great counter to penny Wise
and his fear. So I like that, but it's gonna
get squashed with fear with how this episode ended, but
then there's there's really nothing. Could just kind of surprise
me that they're going alone to their little tower when
penny Wise was just chilling there as Maddie Like, that's
high risk, you know, true?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that thing's like a ton of stairs, Like
it's not like you can like quickly flee from that spot.
So it's a good point. I feel like that's not
a super safe hideout, but I don't know where it
is in this town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no kidding, but in that I yeah, I
got nothing. So where do you want to steer to?
Speaker 2: Well, really, I think the only thing I had left
in my notes was the uh the Pennywise daughter situation,
if you want to get there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like, so right off the hook here, penny
Wise is individual, a real individual, and we saw photos
of this character in the movie, but you don't really
know the connection or the affiliation. But we've seen Scars Guard.
We're in the old like Circus Carni clothing outfit or whatever,
so we know that this was a real character, but
we didn't know the context. So now it's implied that
this entity that's been here since before man has absorbed
and taken favor of this person, this carny, this, this costume,
this this look, and has kind of incorporated it into
his his his wardrobe.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, so that you think it's that he found
the entity, found a person and thought, hey, that's a
good person that I can impersonate and kind of fill.
Speaker 1: Fill in as I that's how I took it, because
it's it's.
Speaker 2: Not rather than the entity, just like creating this identity
and then blending in with the world.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, because like it seems like at the start
of the show, every time the tribe was fighting the entity,
it was always taken the form of this this moose, right,
this was kind of like its form that it liked
to do. And yes, it can change its form to
make you afraid by being it's your your worst fear.
But I think by default it probably likes being the
clown because his kids and the kid factor. I think
that's huge because kids are his target and being a clown,
he can lure them in and then he can freak
them out.
Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, maybe like as an evolutionary type thing
of like over the years, over the cycles of this
creature and obviously like through the indigenous tribes kind of
passing down like the tails and like how to avoid
this thing and protect yourself against it? I guess Pennywise,
also the entity needs to needs to evolve alongside that
in order to be able to continue to lure in
kids and like keep itself satiated and fed and enough
to come back. So I guess that does make sense
over time, just kind of evolving in like what is
the best thing, oh, a human? And what's even better
than a human is just straight up like a clown,
even though clowns are like scary. But I guess clowns
are like not scary in this world until penny Wise
maybe or maybe we're as a society scared of clowns
today because of it. You know, maybe that's part of
it too. I don't know when that started.
Speaker 1: I have no idea when it started. I know clowns
are never my favorite thing when I was younger, and
definitely eerie. But yeah, I like that idea, you know,
in an evolutionary sense, because they break it down like, hey,
it's a predator, and certain predators they want to get
you like afraid before they eat you and whatnot, and
so maybe it is just a bare bones breakdown of
that where it's just an evolutionary thing. And I just
hope to that point to be a clown to I mean,
exactly as you put it, I could subscribe to that theory,
but at the same time, I could see maybe I'm
just totally overthinking it and over looking the what it
is for. But I feel like I need a little
more context because, Okay, the missus Kersh found out that
she she had a father named Pennywise, worked in the Carnival.
He went missing one day. Carnival moved on and she
stayed behind. So she started working at Juniper Hill when
she was young, and then she found out, Okay, someone's
little girl's talking about Pennywise and the pipes. This is
kind of weird. And so that's I want to know
that reason why he penny Wise is the entity. And
maybe that's what a prequel show when we go back,
could kind of highlight and look at, because I think
it would go back to that period of time where
we would be able to dive into that a little
bit more. And so that being said, she totally fucks
over the little girl Mabel, which again that whole scene
very freaky loves seeing Scar's guard though popping office penny
Wise and him just doing his hallway glide like freak
out thing. It's always terrifying.
Speaker 2: But seeing his actual face, like without makeup, well there's
still some makeup on him, but less of the clown makeup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was some good stuff. And so she
is convinced that he is father, but has this evil
spirit that kind of comes out, but it gets satiated
and her real dad comes out again when it gets
the kids. So I think, okay, this is a complete ploy.
The father is not there anymore. Penny Wise is just
using her to get her to bring him kids in
an isolated environment. Because yeah, it's the same thing with
how he uses people like Bowers in the movie just
to go and kill people and do his bidding. And
I think here, it's like, yeah, I will give you
your father figure if you give me kids. And there
was a brief moment where Missus Kirsh is standing there
with Mabel and he's, oh, you brought a friend, and
like missus Kirsch is like Papa, and Pennywise has this weird,
like weird expression like he's curious about this, but he
shrugs it off right away and goes to try and
kill Mabel and they run off. But just the way
he does that expression, I really liked it because I
feel like, to me, okay, and the way I read
this scene, yeah, he's playing her. He's like, I'm going
to see this as an opportunity. I'm going to use
it because I'm a predator.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I feel like he he the entity
itself is kind of unraveling to some extent until it feeds,
and so I feel like, you know, eating the kid
and then like maybe thinking, Okay, how can I turn
this situation into something that's like in my advantage. If
I now go into the dad form of this character,
maybe I can lure them. And so maybe he just
like didn't even he was just too hungry, you know.
He was just throbbing too much, able to do anything
other than just like I gotta devour this kid first,
and then I can think about like a long term
plan here. But yeah, like do you think that this
is the first time or the first human I suppose
that Pennywise has decided to like absorb and then kind
of use his attributes as like a way to blend anything.
This is the first like human, he's done this too.
Speaker 1: Ooh, I'm gonna say no, just because he's been here
for a long time, right, Yeah, I feel like he's
done it before. I really do. I mean, heck, he
did it with as Maddie, right, he portrayed Maddie, their friend.
It was like, come on, like, come back with me
to the sewers and to try and like lure them
and kill them. So I feel like, again, it's just him,
He's playing all the cards. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think with like the different flashback sequences,
because we had the other one where he was like
that old man in like the woods or whatever. But
I think that was like after the circus stuff.
Speaker 1: That would have been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so hard to track some ofize these thirty
year time jumps, but I think that would have been
a later thirty year time jump. But he's yeah, presumably
tried it before, but I don't know. Maybe he had
to like acquire that over time. Maybe it like he
was just munched down on animals for millennia and then
it was like oh humans, you know, bigger brains, more
fear center in the brain, better blood. You know, Maybe
he just like acquired that taste over time. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny how you mentioned that circus episode because
you do see someone dressed up in the penny Wise
outfit there, so I have to revisit that and see
maybe that was but oh that was after though, because yeah,
he's well no, because he's not his classic penny Wise
self yet, so he was just the old man and
he was the other things too. So maybe that was
Missus Kursha's father there at the time, because I think
it fits with how old those characters are when they
were kids in that episode and the circus was there
and you see penny Wise the clown, and then you
jump ahead to present day. I think that time kind
of fits. April, if you're listening, you're gonna have to
let us know in the discord if there's a chance that, yeah,
character that dressed as penny Wise in the circus in
that flashback episode was Missus Kursh's father.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I was a little. I think part of
the reasons I was confused is because, like the kurseh
present day of this story, when we were and then
we flipped like the black and white. Obviously, the black
and white kind of obscure is exactly what she looks like.
But I was like, she doesn't look like thirty years difference.
But then when they like afterwards, we go back to
present and we zoom in and you can like, okay,
I can see like a bit of wrinkles on her face,
but like she still seems like kind of young and
obviously in chapter one. I don't think we covered this
on the podcast, but yeah, like April mentioned to us, like, oh,
that is the character from I guess it was, yeah,
chapter one or chapter two.
Speaker 1: It's always think it's too apartment and she's creepy old lady.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, so that I guess in this timeline
she was fifty and then when in the black and
white sequence she was around I guess twenty ish is
what we're saying.
Speaker 1: I think, So I think that sounds right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, really interesting stuff because I mean I
was also my brain was going over the place, like
how long has penny Wise been in this guy? Did
Pennywise impregnate someone like in the guise of this But
I don't know if he has that ability. I don't
know if he like inherits their DNA and ability to
like you know, impregnate someone or whatnot. But I'm I'm
assuming that more so this guy was the father had
the kid, and then penny Wise, the entity kind of
you know, acquired his body and then like started you know,
Marionette and as him and maybe he just has absorbed
a bunch of people and he just flips back and forth,
and maybe it just took him, as you mentioned, like
a minute in that sequence to recognize like, oh, this
is the body I absorb. Here is this person's father.
I just didn't put two and two together immediately, you know, mm.
Speaker 1: Hmm, yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So and then the other side of this reveal is
that the daughter, which what is her name by the way,
I don't have it written my name, Curse or Lily? Yeah,
like do we have her first name? Yeah, like missus
Kersh because Lily just calls her curse, right yeah. So yeah.
The other part of this is that she literally goes
up to her studio in like the attic of her
house or whatever it is, and then discovers that Missus
Kirsh has like, you know, a full on disguise factory.
Speaker 1: Going on here.
Speaker 2: She has the wigs, she has the makeup, she has
like the reference images, and this character has been dressing
up as Pennywise and going around town, and at least
a couple of the times that we've seen Pennywise in
this series, turns out it was actually her. So that
was definitely the time when when she was outside the
window when Will saw when Will saw Pennywise, So that
was Kurshia. What other sequences graveyard graveyard sequence as well? Okay, yeah,
so a couple of times that she's kind of been
parading around as this character, which is got yeah, an
interesting reveal, Like I did not expect that because also,
like especially in that nighttime sequence, Will obviously gets the
glimpse like it's scared, falls on the ground, whatever, parents
come look at the window. Pennywise is gone obviously in
that time. It's like you don't need to be supernatural
to ditch that quickly. It's also like nighttime, she could
have just been hiding behind that tree. Still, who knows,
But yeah, all stuff that, like in hindsight feels believable,
and those aren't moments when Pennywise was doing some big
crazy thing that only something entity with magic powers could
be able to do. So interesting, uh, interesting plot point
for sure, like that's kind of kind of crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm quite blown away by it. How
she's just kind of tributing herself in this sense to
Penny Wise. But again, it makes sense. She's she wants
her dad, and she thinks that every time she gets
a kid to this creature that hey, my dad comes
out and wouldn't you do anything for your dad kind
of a thing. And she's definitely she's got our demons.
So she's pretty fucked up. So it'll be interesting to
see what happens. But I kind of liked that they
made her out this way and just just for the
fact that she's she's absolutely bonkers in the it chapter two.
So I like that this character that became that weird
creepy granny long legs thing has this kind of demented backstory.
But we just need to have it executed properly and
it's not just some botched butchered narrative. I want them
to actually give us a good the times they have
in two episodes fleshed out reason like Okay, yeah, she's
the daughter of this Carne and this Carney was absorbed
by Pennywise. That's I just need that to be clarified.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean we that's definitely the end of
this episode is too big cliffhangers. One is like what's
gonna happen at the hideout? And then also she gets
dressed up again in the attic and we get like
that creepy, kind of silhouetted shot she's about to go
do some stuff. But I forgot to mention this earlier,
but I like what you brought up to of like
specifically her being affiliated with the UH with Juniper Hill
because obviously a lot of the people there, they have
their demons, they've been going through something, and so I
feel like it's it's like prime time for like finding
easy marks for people who are have some predetermined fear
something that Pennywise can like almost immediately tap into to
screw with them. And yeah, obviously she can kind of
get like the intel, she can like scout them out
obviously lure them in some way, but also just like
literally has like their you know, doctor file of like
here are all the things that are like categorically quote
unquote wrong with this person, and like how can we
uh you know, siphon those out to get like pump
that you know, fear, cortisol whatever, like to the maximum degree.
So really interesting kind of snaring system.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I quite like this bit of lore. I think this
is a This is interesting. And obviously we know that
she you know, spoilers in chapter two exists, like, she
survives this. So whatever she's doing next week of going
around as a cleeping creepy clown doesn't get her shot
by a local sheriff or something like that. So clearly
she survives through this.
Speaker 1: Well that's the interesting thing. I mean, will she survive?
I mean, maybe she becomes something that Pennywise absorbs and
it's just something that you know, like the Maddie situation.
She oh, yeah, I guess it just pops in there
as old missus kersh yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess you're right. And then because both Beverly knew
miss Kirsh as a kid too though.
Speaker 1: Right, I think, so I need to revisit that in
the movie.
Speaker 2: And so that would have been God. Now the math
doesn't seem to math because now this lady thirty years
from now. Okay, So I guess here's what I'm taking
it as When Beverly I'd interact with mister Kerch, she
was the old lady you know in it chapter one timeline,
but then the Kursh in chapter two that is just Pennywise, right,
Like the one we see is actually just Pennywise doing
creepy shit, right.
Speaker 1: I think so because he's.
Speaker 2: Doing you know, he's like teleporting around and like doing
penny Wise stuff. But Beverly, I assume Beverly knew or
interacted with the actual missus Kirsh, who was like eighty
or whatever at the time of chapter one. So okay,
that's making sense for me now. So I think that
was probably part of maybe why Beverly was tripped out
when she went there in like chapter two as Chastain
to be like, oh, Kursh's still hear what's going on?
And obviously it was like a destroyed building that she
was just miss viewing the entire time.
Speaker 1: But okay, that's right.
Speaker 2: That's the head kenon I'm going with because that kind
of makes sense to me, and I just got to
latch on whatever makes sense for me right now.
Speaker 1: For sure, you highlighted that that ending narrative there where
is the mob's kind of coming to just destroy the
hangout place and the cop two bowers. He's no longer sheriff.
The mayor relieved him of his duties, right, Yeah, and he.
Speaker 2: Seemed a little disheveled because of that for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that kind of fits with how you know
his son and his grandson are in the present it
movies because they're just they're racists and they're mean and
all that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, definitely, Yeah. I do you think anyone
any key players are dying in that interaction if it
turns into like a little like war or something.
Speaker 1: Mmm, I think you. I mean, you got a lot
of side characters in there right now, and I think
if one or two of them might get killed. Uh,
I don't know. It's on isn't on like the military base.
It's just it's amazing how they able to get there.
Maybe it's on the outskirts.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. But like, yeah, I don't think you
would go through like you know, in this episode we
saw will like blast through like one of the security
checkpoints past like the safe haven houses. Like I don't
think that one has, like you know, a security checkpoint.
I think it's just hidden by virtue of it being
in the woods on like a beaten off off the road,
beaten path.
Speaker 1: You know, well, the person that tipped them off. I
think it was Missus Kirch. I think she tipped them off,
and she's putting her clothing on her clown costume and
she's going there because the officer was like, yeah, I
got a tip from a lady Anonymous that plays would
be and I mean the only people that know where
he would be would be Hamlin's wife and then Missus
Kirch as well. Yeah. So I think Kurse is the
one who, you know, while they did sleep together and
they connected, I think she's definitely playing him and wants
Penny Wise to appear there, so she's getting into her
suit to watch it happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think, you know, obviously the perspective
of the other two guys that we don't really know,
they're like, they're not key players in this season? Who
are part of this? A little hideout here? Like what
are they doing? You know, like they're they're hiding a
guy who broke out of jail here. There's like a
bunch of kids hanging out.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like they just had this sequence
in the sewer where multiple comrades of Theirs died, Like
what are they doing? I guess you know, it's good
to have like a party, to get everyone's spirits up whatever,
But I feel like you don't do it here like
that that one you plan somewhere else, And obviously we've
seen that particularly the people setting this up are not
like welcome at like the bar in certain places in
Dairy itself, like the main proper town. But I just
feel like timing wise, come on, guys, like you should
have kicked this down the road a couple of weeks
to do this big soiree. But I guess they're excited
they finally got the the place built up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah cool.
Speaker 2: I think that's all my notes, mister Field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's all I got. That's all I got,
so cool. Right on. It was a good episode. Yeah,
we're back next week with the penultimate episode. Maybe you'll
see all three of us there, maybe just two. I
don't know. It's a it's a game of roulette with
this review, but just be one. Maybe I can't, I can't,
but yeah, until then, have a good one and we'll
see you in the search bar.
Speaker 2: Good night. What