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Speaker 1: You were listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network, where

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you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else

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to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial

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Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork

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dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial

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Survival Network now more than.

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Speaker 2: Ever, and welcome. This is Financial Survival Network. I'm your host,

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Carrie Let's person you're about to hear from. If I

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had listened to him twelve thirteen years ago, well I

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probably wouldn't be doing this podcast now, or if I

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was doing it, it would be from my villa and

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the Mediterranean. He told me that I should buy bitcoin

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right then, and there he had the wallet, he was

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ready to sell it to me. I'm sitting at a

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table in a restaurant in Broadway in New York, and

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bitcoin had just gone up to ten dollars, and I said,

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you know, I think it's a little high priced. I'm

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going to wait for it to go back down to seven.

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And you know what happens when you say I'm gonna wait,

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you never do it. And of course I never did

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till many years later, till it was fifty thousand a coin.

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But this guy, of all the people I've net talked to,

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and it's thousands of people over ten thousand podcast interviews,

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probably had the best calls of anyone talking about Trace

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mayor Trace. It's great to have you back on the show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd great to be here, Carrie, And that was

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quite an interview. I think we can still find it

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on YouTube. So if I are seen years ago.

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Speaker 2: It should be on YouTube, or I probably have it

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in the archives. If I can find it, I'll put

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a link to it in the show notes of this interview,

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which will be on Financial Survival Network dot com. So

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what's been going on here since we last spoke ten

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twelve years ago.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, this little magic internet money thing, it's become something.

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And now the President of the United States has created

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a US Bitcoin Strategic Reserve.

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Speaker 4: We have strategy and publicly traded company.

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Speaker 3: They've acquired close to sixty billion dollars of bitcoin as

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a reserve treasury reserve asset on their balance sheet. And

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we have lots of copycats, a couple hundred of those

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treasury reserve companies.

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Speaker 4: And then the retail space, everybody's.

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Speaker 3: Heard of bitcoin almost everybody's bought some or used it

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or sent it around or somehow played with the technology.

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So we've had just deep penetration of the technology from

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where it was thirteen years ago. I mean, it's really

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kind of crazy to think about what bitcoin was like

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back when we kind of had that lunch.

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Speaker 2: The wild West, for sure. So let me ask you

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a question, how did you know?

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Speaker 3: I think there's uh a lot of human capital that

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went into it. When you do the work, uh, you know,

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the consequences follow, and so our mind has to be prepared.

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We first we have to have good soil to plant

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the trees in the trees being thoughts or ideas, So

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we have to have good purposes or intentions that we

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that we then get grasses and shrubs and trees. These

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are thoughts, ideas and convictions, and those come because we study.

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In bitcoin's case, is highly interdisciplinary mathematics, cryptography, internet protocols,

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computer networking, thermodynamics. You know, you got the hardware, the

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software mining. Then you layer on top of that all

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of the sociological and economic aspects, game theory, and you

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need you need the Austrian school of economics, not political dogma.

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Because of you start from a wrong premise. You're going

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to even if you reason correctly, you will still get

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an incorrect conclusion. So you have to start from like

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real premises, from the Ostrian school. And that means that

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you're now into praxeology, the study of human action. Yes,

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you're into all these types of things, and all of

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our universities and these types of courses. In the economics,

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they just teach the political dogma and they, I mean,

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they don't even acknowledge that there's an entire branch called

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monetary science. And so you know, I was I had

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put in the work in all of these different areas. Intellectually,

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I'd even had a lot of practical experience playing with

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digital currencies that came up in these virtual games and

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stuff like that. And you know, I'd also experimented with

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PGP encryption and peer to peer networks like LimeWire and

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kazah and eventually bit torrent and before that, things like Napster,

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and I'd even played around with things like egold in

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gold money dot com, which experimented with the first versions

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of sound money in the digital age. And so you know,

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it was it was for me. I had a rich

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garden of the mind which had been cultivated, pruned. You know,

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everything wasn't just growing wildly, but you know, it actually

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seemed to have been organized in a very methodical and

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deliberate way. Looking back, you know, seeing kind of the

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divine providence at work in my life. And so, you know,

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when I did come into contact with bitcoin, and at

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this point, I was already running my blog Run to Gold,

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which I had started in January two thousand eight. Yeah,

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and so you know, i'd been writing about monetary science,

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monetary sovereignty, some of the financial issues and my conclusions,

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you know, studying the stream school, trying to apply it

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to current events and everything for blog articles. So you know,

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I'd been putting in the hard work that was needed

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in order to then when I was exposed, you know,

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to bitcoin, I could fit it into a model that

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already existed. I had a very well cultivated garden, and

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it was like, oh, this bitcoin tree can go right

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over here, boom and it. You know, it's like there

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was a spot especially for it, and you know, and

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so then once you know, I get that, get get

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the little bitcoin seed planted in there, Well, I have

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to water it, I have to dung it. I have

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to prune it. I have to you know, I have

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to let time go by so that it grows. You know,

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everybody wants the flower, but nobody wants all of that stuff.

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Speaker 4: Nobody wants to do.

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Speaker 3: The work that is precedent to the flower or the fruit.

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You know, everybody wants to eat the mango, but they

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don't want to like grow the mango tree from a seed.

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And so, you know I I did that, and so

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like the rest is kind of history, and that's you know,

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those are trades that we make with our future self.

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Why why did I do that instead of watching you know,

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cap videos on YouTube and going to the beach and

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staying out late and you know, like I never drink alcohol.

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A lot of my friends were drinking alcohol.

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Speaker 4: They would stay out.

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Speaker 3: Late, they'd have a hangover in the morning. I'm reading

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Austrian school aeronomics book, you know. So I'm making trades

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with my future self. So it's not like it just

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happened by accident. It's not like I got lucky, you know,

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I got fortunate. And I do think there was an

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aspect of being in the right place at the right time,

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and that's called opportunity and preparation combined with opportunity.

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Speaker 4: That's what a lot of people call luck.

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Speaker 2: Well, in the Hebrew the symbol for luck, the word

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is mauzle, and the symbols comprised of time, play, action,

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and that kind of sums it up. So looking at it, though,

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like me, I think I brought a lawyer's mindset to it.

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Was much into economics in many ways, as you not

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so much into math. But where I went wrong is

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I'm the hardened skeptic and I always thought that the

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government would do its best to close it.

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Speaker 4: Down, and which I'd tried.

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Speaker 2: But you know, they could have shut down the notes.

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I mean that was the ultimate attack of the notes,

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physically and cyber, but they never did because my theory

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was crypto is the best way to pay off a

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politician ever created.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's I know that I'd say that because it

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is very traceable, especially now with tools like chain analysis

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and all the washing analytics. So it's not necessarily a

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very good tool to use for engaging in crime like

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bribery politicians.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it could go to the relatives and

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the friends and the lawyers.

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Speaker 3: And all that's getting very much. Those those loose ends

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are being tightened up with all of the AML, the KYC.

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Speaker 4: And we saw this with Operation Choke Point.

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Speaker 3: You know, they wanted to operational, they wanted to weaponize

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the financial and monetary system to suppress political opponents.

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Speaker 4: They did, and they did.

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Speaker 3: You know, they very got real, like very real, just

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pure expression of political power.

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Speaker 2: Guns, online gamblingde orange zack lenders, yeah, payday lenders, everything.

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Speaker 3: Crydo industry. Even Milania Trump got debanks. She talks about

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it in her Memoirs of America. And so you know,

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we had this private sanctions regime. No notice, no due process,

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no ability to appeal, no reason, no way to even

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know what you did. It's being done by private actors,

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but at the behest of regulators. But they're not putting

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anything in writing. Yeah, it's government action through their puppets,

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their puppet regulated parties. You know, some countries like Uruguay,

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for example, having access to a bank account is a

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civil right. And so you like you have to be

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given a bank account, Yeah, because you need one in

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order to participate in society.

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Speaker 2: I was surprised I was never debanked. Honestly, they just

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keep offering me more cards and more accounts. But as

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very real. But we're kind of past that at least

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for now, and probably won't go back to it anytime soon.

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So future here, we got thirty seven trillion of debt,

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we've got hundreds of we've got a few trillion of bitcoin,

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you know, maybe five to ten trillion altogether of cryptos

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out there.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean the bitcoin market casts about two trillion

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right now, another one trillion for all the other all coins.

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But I guess getting to your point, President Trump, he said,

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maybe we'll pay off the thirty six trillion dollars of

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that with a little bit of bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: How do you do that when you make the coin

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go up to fifteen million?

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, it's the same as you would do with gold,

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right like Franklin Roosevelt had the revaluation from twenty dollars

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announced to thirty five. So you know, if you have

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the bitcoin price go up and the liabilities are staying

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the same.

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Speaker 2: But this is different because there's only so much gold,

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and different parties control the largest amounts.

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Speaker 4: Like China and Russia, HRO.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't benefit us if the price that gold goes up,

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it benefits them exactly.

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Speaker 2: So instead you take an asset that was originally worthless,

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you seize it from unsuspecting drug dealers and money longers

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and other ne'er do wells, and you tax it, and

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you tax it, maybe do a windfall profits tax, or

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maybe it just doesn't qualify for capital gains although it

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does now. And then then basically you pump it up

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to a fifteen million because it becomes a true competing currency.

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And then before you know it the depth you have

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your choice. You can you can keep getting twenty five

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bases points interest, or you could take these bitcoin to payoff,

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or we create a new coin that's backed by bitcoin

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and then we use that to pay it off, something

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to that effect. How likely is this, Well.

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Speaker 4: We look at Senator Witness.

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Speaker 3: She's introduced a bill and it would have the US

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government buy I think four million bitcoins or something like that,

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different iterations of it.

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Speaker 4: So you know, there's that what.

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Speaker 2: If it's been buying it all along? What if the

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Fed's been buying bitcoin all along and you don't being

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what they've confiscated. Yeah, we don't necessarily know the true

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We have no a true ownership of all the utxos.

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I mean maybe Chanealysis has some idea, but it would

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definitely be a way that the US government could exert

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some dominance over their geopolitical foes.

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Speaker 4: If we look at it, we have gold.

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Speaker 3: In twenty two trillion dollar market cap, half a billion

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dollars of daily emission new gold being mined. Bitcoin is

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about a tenth the size, two trillion dollars fifty million

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a day. Then the US dollar, you know, so we

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got gold, the US dollar, Bitcoin, those are kind of

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our three main reserve assets. And then around bitcoin, we've

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got the Euro, We've got the U on the yen,

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you know, stuff like that. You know, if Bitcoin can

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go up to you know, five or ten trillion dollar

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market cap, now you're looking at a displacing any of

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these other fiat currencies, which just further entrenches the US

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dollar and allows extension of the US dollar through you know,

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additional credit creation for maybe another twenty forty years, but

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it keeps you know, if the US can control the

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top three search results effectively for world reserve asset, gold, bitcoin,

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and dollar and use stable points for all of that,

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you know, they can box out the geopolitical rivals from Europe, China,

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et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So you see it, I see it. I think there's

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a few other people that see it, not a lot,

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but somebody who's actually working from the government actually has

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figured this out already.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it seems about a year ago, a year

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and a half ago when the ETFs got approved. A

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year before that, it just seemed like there was an

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about face from the government. So maybe there was something

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deep in the roots of the Pentagon that changed and

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they decided, you know what, we're going to use bitcoin

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in a geostrategic manner, and all of a sudden, Oh,

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instead of Operation choke Point, it's Operation Floodgates.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, operation floodgates, like open.

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Speaker 2: Them, that's what we should call it, Operation Floodgates. Yes, So, yeah,

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it seems obvious to me. I've written a couple of articles.

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Has gotten completely ridiculed about it. But there is no

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other way because there's only so much gold, and like

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our adversaries have it, and you can only how much

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can you make it go up to? Can you make

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it go up to?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean two hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 2: Thousand an ounce then we're gonna you're gonna crash the

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dollar doing that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean gold is gold is already a massive

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asset and its market gap is outperformed bitcoin's market gap

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in twenty twenty five. So as a tool for monetary sovereignty,

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gold is a phenomenal tool. And the market says that

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my thesis has always been that bitcoin could also be

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a very powerful tool for monetary sovereignty in a different

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way than gold is. And because bitcoin started out just

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crawling out of the primordial ooze, you know, sixteen years later,

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here it is. But where's it going to be in

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another sixteen years and another thirty years after that?

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Speaker 2: It can only go higher, way I see it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because the dollar will only go lower.

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Speaker 2: It's going to go you know, saw tooth. But it's

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and the beauty is talking with your assistant about it.

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The tops, the peaks are so easy to detect. I

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knew it in seventeen. I knew it in twenty one,

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you know, nineteen seven and sixty seven seven, I think

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it was sixty nine seven. They were just so obvious

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because the parabolic move has to.

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Speaker 3: Die, yeah, because of the proof of work, nature of

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the of the of the asset.

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Speaker 4: Same with gold.

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Speaker 3: You know, like we can get these rhino horns, but eventually,

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you know, when you're producing so much of this and

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you're having to convert electricity and hash power, or oil

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and steel into gold or into bitcoin. That acts as

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a natural corrective mechanism for the price.

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Speaker 2: And it's just the nature of markets. When you get

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a parabolic move, it's just the tree does not grow

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to the sky right exactly. And you combine all the factors,

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you know, because most of Wall Street financial experts they

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just extrapolate. They say, whatever is happening today, we extrapolate

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that into the future, and that's how we sell. But

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it doesn't work that way because it's just like I

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used to liken it too, commuting to New York City

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on the highways, like it's direct the amount of traffic

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was directly correlated to economic activity. And I would know

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when something was going to happen because we hit peak everything,

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every toll plaza, every highway going into Manhattan. I knew

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it can't go on, and yet they're extrapolating as if

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it can go on forever. And that's the mistake of

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maybe it's by accident, maybe it's by design, maybe it's both.

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But that's what I've always found, the flaw of extrapolation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is the madness of crowds, right, I

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read behavioral economics. We're getting into, you know, Austrian business

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cycle theory, you know, booms and bus and crashes. And

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actually how FIA currency in our frash members or banking

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system exacerbates these amplitudes causing damage into in this allocation

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and capital into the economy.

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Speaker 2: Multiple bubbles, oh, everything bubble. Back in the good old

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days when there was a real currency, a sound money, gold, silver,

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you can only pretty much have one bubble at a time.

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Now you could have realistening, you could have crypto, you

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can have stock market bonds, currencies, everything, the everything bubble.

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Speaker 3: Right, It all gets correlated, you know, basically to M two.

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Speaker 2: So you know, and then how do you stop printing

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money in this day and age.

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Speaker 3: It's not very politically palpable to do that. So you'd

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take the inflation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's built baked into the cake. So inflation, what

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are you thinking on?

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Speaker 3: Well, the you know, fundamentally, it's a form of taxation

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without representation, it's confiscation without due process of law. And

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so you know, when you're when you're able to just

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print this stuff out of nothing and confiscate surreptitiously tens

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of millions of hours of people's labor. I mean, it's

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just a terrible system to live under.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like it's unconstitutional to me.

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Speaker 3: Well, Article one, Section ten, Clause one clearly in constitutional

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line and Jerry system.

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Speaker 2: And the Fifth Amendment, taking without just compensation, it's a taking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm not sure under how we generally define

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the takings, but it's definitely a you're diminishing the value,

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and you're interfering with the obllegation of contracts, which are

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you know, other constitutional clauses.

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Speaker 4: That you could have in asiment laws.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's clearly you know, the federal government has

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no power to make anything legal tender, and if the

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states make anything legal tender, it must be either gold

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or silver. So the federal government can't make anything legal tender.

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The states are restricted in what they can make legal tender. Somehow,

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this federal reserve note got made legal tender by the

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federal government. That's clearly unconstitutional. They don't have that power.

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The states can't make a federal reserve notes legal tender.

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So but you know, Roosevelt breached this, the legislature breaches

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making it holding golden and using it illegal and then

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in City versus Dover.

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Speaker 4: The US Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

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Speaker 3: So all three branches of government have clearly abdicated their

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duty to uphold the Constitution. On what moneitors this in

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the United States chooses, and it's so big now that

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the US arene courts isn't going to hear it because

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it's a outal question.

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Speaker 2: So that's like the income tax probably wasn't legally passed

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and Peter Schiff's father fowarded for years and he wound

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up in jail. He's probably right, but there's no way

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that any court is repealing the amendment. Was the thirteenth

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Amendment to creating income fact I don't remember. Yeah, I

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think I'm thirteen twelve. Thirteenth one was.

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Speaker 3: But there's even less there's even less room to argue

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here because Article one, Section two, Clause one is clear

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clear on his face, there's prima facia. So but what

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what happens is we just are going to lurk from

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one crisis to the next until it implodes and deflation

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or explodes and hyperinflation.

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Speaker 4: And this is this.

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Speaker 3: Is the this is the cause of so many of

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the negative effects in society, as the corruption of our

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monetary system. And Johann men Gutta wrote about this in

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Fast part two. And they brought Isaac Newton and as

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Master of the Men in sixteen ninety six to fix

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the great the failure, and so he created the gold standard.

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You know, so this is not new. We've been through

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this before many cycles.

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Speaker 2: You look at the breakdown of the family. It's directly

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attributable to inflation because it used to be one parrot.

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Back then it was the mother stayed home, raised the kids.

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But then the cost of living got so out of

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hand you needed a dual income family just to survive.

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Speaker 3: And why did that cost of living get out of hand?

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And it's because there was no safe store of value

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golden economic freedom, bye green span. If there were, the

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government would make it i illegal like that in the

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case of gold. A good example is my father. He

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graduates from college. He takes a job with the railroad

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instead of the accounting firm nine hundred dollars per month.

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And you know, back then it was twenty five point

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seven ounces of gold seven hundred thousand dollars a year

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and purchasing power for a brand new college graduate, no experience.

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Speaker 4: And that's how much the standard of living has.

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Speaker 3: Been eroded for the benefit of those that are closer

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to the money printer.

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Speaker 2: The bank's kasha and they love inflation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the big corporations that are house by them.

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You know, we've had huge productivity gains over the last

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forty years.

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Speaker 2: That's the only thing that's kept US afloat is those productivity.

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Speaker 3: But it hasn't been to the benefit of the American citizen,

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as clearly illustrated between my dad's salary starting now and

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a college graduate starting today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, one.

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Speaker 3: Tenth or one twelfth the value of what the purchasing

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power because one as of gold. There is still one

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ounce of gold today. And then when you look at

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the Golden Constant by Professor Jastrom the book, the price

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of all the other assets and services and stuff in

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the economy, they rotate around gold, just like the planets

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do around the sun.

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Speaker 4: And so you know, when we're not earning.

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Speaker 3: Twenty five point seven ounces of gold for our college

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graduates coming out of school, yeah, they're wages have been diminished.

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Speaker 4: In Article three of the Constitution.

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Speaker 3: The federal judges their wages are not to be diminished.

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That's part of an essential check amounts in our political

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machinery to have in an event in judiciary.

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Speaker 4: And yet what do we have.

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Speaker 3: We have this unaccountable, unelected, unreviewable federal reserve deciding what

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the length of the dollar is.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and so we got to wrap up. I know

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you've got another appointment. Any place we can find you

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00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,160
on the web these days.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I host the Bitcoin Knowledge podcast Bitcoin dot kN.

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Speaker 4: Have a Twitter thing.

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Speaker 3: I haven't really been acted there for a while, but

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maybe I'll start something up there.

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Speaker 4: Anyways, those would be kind of the two main places.

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Speaker 2: All right. The links are in the show notes. This

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interview on Financial Survival Network dot com. You got a

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00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,799
question for Trace myself, Shoot me an email kl at

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00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,640
Carrie LUTs dot com. Trace great reconnecting with you here

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00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,680
in your wisdom that's and born by over a decade now,

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00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:04,319
and we really appreciate it.

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00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much, Kerry. You do a great job.

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Keep up the good work.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network your

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00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:15,319
solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to

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00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:21,400
Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more than

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00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:21,759
ever