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Speaker 1: Welcome to this edition of The High Strangest Factor copyright

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on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. I am Steve Ward,

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one of your hosts, along with Andy Mercer, host and

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producer for the show, and Susie Basstile, host and pug

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Wedgie whisper. We are back from a long hiatus and

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on The High Strangest Factor we delt delve into all

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aspects of the paranormal and the unexplained, and sometimes I

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don't even talk about John Peel, so Andy and Susie

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let's just catch up a little bit. Andy, your publishing company.

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How's that going very good.

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Speaker 2: I'm just working on the next book, which should be

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out in hopefully some mid late September. Just in the

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process of laid out into the format to be printed,

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which takes a few weeks.

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Speaker 3: It's just getting it quite right and the exactly but yes,

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it's going pretty well.

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Speaker 2: This is the fourth title un Publishing and this one

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is a reprint of an old manuscript from the eighteen

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fifties which is from Greek magical papyary and it's interesting

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because it's best known for the source of original Caught

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the Headless or the Baldness one which mister Adda Crowley

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made famous, but a lot of us are cultist not

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quite well. But this is the first time that's published

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and we're doing a completely new, reformatted version. People have

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printed the original book for the eighteen fifties in its

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old format, but I've reformatted it completely so it's in

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a modern font, much clearer, easier to follow and without

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going to too much detail. The original manuscript was missing

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some text which has been printed separately, but I've now

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put the two together for the first time, so that

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to keep me quite busy for the last couple of months.

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I've it's been very warm here in England of the

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last couple of months, very hard to work when it's

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both about thirty our degrees.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I think we can all relate to that over

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on the other side of the ocean as well. So

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your change in profession has been pretty rewarding.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, I mean I still have a couple of clients. Yeah,

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so that's always helped sort of something income between books.

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But yeah, it's going pretty well as worth i'd hoped

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it would, so I'm pretty pleas of that.

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Speaker 1: And so when you say clients, what is your chosen profession?

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Speaker 2: Well, as you know, as a psychotherapist of twenty years

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and sort of retired in quotation marks to move from

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my old hometown close to London across the coach at Somerset,

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living in a small village yard, which is actually wonderful.

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Speaker 4: Is calm and quiet and peaceful.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm enjoying how much quieter, relaxing life over here,

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getting into all sorts of adventures, including going on a

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ghost investigation last weekend, which a time later i'll talk

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about if you're interested.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, on our PBS, on the British murder

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mystery TV shows, it's always those quiet little towns that

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you're rept in mayhem, you know.

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Speaker 3: So oh yes.

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Speaker 1: Now the last question is you don't plan on plan

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on publishing any graphic novels now do you plan? Very good?

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And and Susie, now tell us, uh, tell us about

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your uh hoggie whisper uh persona and uh where people

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can contact you and give reports.

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Speaker 5: So all hate mail can go to my manager. His

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name is Steve Ward. You can find him on Facebook.

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And I do have a blog out there, what is

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it Steve Blogges dot blogspot dot com.

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Speaker 1: I think that's close enough they'll find it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Uh, Google Susie Bastille and I come up all over

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the place if you want to hear interviews with me

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and whatnot. I am a bit of a recluse online nowadays,

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So I'm just gonna I'm going to be mysterious for

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a while over here.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 5: I've been more concentrated on acting like a paquajy lately

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than talking about them on the internet.

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Speaker 1: Oh here's my Uh, this is lucky. If I've decided

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to make a cravesit here very nice, well, very good.

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And if I'm going to get all that hate mail,

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I'm glad that I have access to a psychotherapist. Now,

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let's with no further ado, Let's introduce our guest. Ken

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Gerhart is a widely recognized cryptozoologist, author, and lecturer who

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frequently appears on television. Ken has traveled the world searching

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for evidence of mysterious creatures, including Bigfoot, the lock Nest Monster,

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the Chupacabra, Mothman, and the Beast of Ja Boudin. I

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think I got that close. In addition, he has authored

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seven books on the subject of unknown animals. His research

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has been featured on numerous TV shows including Missing in Alaska,

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Monster Quest, Ancient Aliens, America, Unearthed, The Unexplained with William Shatner,

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and Legend Hunters. Ken has appeared on major networks including

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the History Channel, Animal Planet, Discovery, Sci Fi, National Geographic,

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and the Science Channel. Currently, he is featured on The

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Proof Is Out There. Ken, Welcome to the Sky Strangeness Factor.

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Speaker 4: Hey, it's great to see us, Steve, and you too. Everyone.

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It's an honor to be here with you tonight. Thanks

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for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, thanks for coming and right off the bat,

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let's tell people that they will be able to see

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you shortly speaking at the Mothman Festival coming up on

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the twentieth and twenty first of September.

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Speaker 4: Yes, always stoked about that, Steve.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll keeps for putting a word in you know

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what I mean. No, I mean you know Jeff. Just

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so people know, Jeff Bondsley is the man. He makes

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the decisions sometimes I can. I just just lost a cat.

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He's okay, oh man, okay, little little extra entertainment, no

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extra charge. But I have he had you in his

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sights anyway, so I don't think I can claim, you know,

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any credit here. I don't think I'll get a finder's fee,

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is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate it. They've asked me back a few times,

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so I guess they don't help you too much.

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Speaker 1: That's that's very good. Yeah, you're one of the regulars

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that comes back occasionally. So and I remember the night

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you and I and a few people were out. This

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might have been I don't know if it was your

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first time there, but we were standing by the fence

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where the old Norse power plant used to stand out

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there in the TNT area. I don't know if we

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could call that.

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Speaker 4: So I think that was twenty fifteen. I think was

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the first time I went up with Nick Redfern and

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uh the Frick brothers were there and you and uh

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John John Lee if I remember.

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Speaker 1: Him, might have been I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, it was a fun group, good time.

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Speaker 1: And I remember you asked for somebody to say something

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profound now that we were there at the point, and

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so I whipped out a quote by none other than

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John Keele. I was glad to do it, but at

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any rate, uh, you know, can I originally I thought,

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I'm wondering, you know, how did how did it can

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get into this stuff. I mean, so many people were

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influenced by the Beast of Boggy Creek film. That's the

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one that kind of set them off. But I think

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you had I think your parents were instrumental and kind

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of uh guiding you along and and you know where

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you found some of your interests.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. My father was a forestry professor, so he

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spent a lot of time in the outdoors, and I

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collected all kinds of animals, and so I loved animals,

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and I love monster movies. I kind of grew up

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in the you know, Godzilla movies and King Kong, Creature

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from the Black Lagoon and all that kind of stuff.

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So I saw a Bigfoot documentary I guess probably about

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nineteen seventy six when Bigfoot was kind of really taking

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off in pop culture, and it just changed my life.

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I became obsessed with unknown animals, cryptids, And of course

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my mother was a huge influence because she was a

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travel agent and she took me all over the world

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when I was growing up. So I was always studying

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legends of different creatures and things. But I never certainly

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ever planned on making this a career. I've just been

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very blessed and have had some really amazing opportunities. So

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I've just kind of gone with it.

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Speaker 1: So you traveled with your mom places that she.

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Speaker 4: Went, Yeah, she would travel, My dad would go, and

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my sister as well sometimes. But my mom was actually

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one that used to you know, when I got into

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this stuff, you know, she used to talk about the

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Yetty although she traveled to the him. I never made

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it over there with her to that spot, but she

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told me about She always called it the West Virginia

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moth Man. She loved to talk about that. And then

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when I was fifteen years old, she arranged for me

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to travel to Lockedness and that's when I did my

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first field research when I was fifteen years old and

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at lock Ness that would have been eighty two. So

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so yeah, it's been a it's been a fun ride.

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Speaker 1: Very good. I was over there my first time in

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seventy three, oh wow, backpacking through Europe. I got to

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see Stonehenge and sponge off my relatives, which was it

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was really great. I had a bunch of second cousins

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that were all quite a bit older than me, but

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they had they bore striking resemblances to my relatives back home.

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I mean, my grandfather Alec looked so much like my

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second cousin Alec who lived in Grangemouth in Scotland, and

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on and on. So but yeah, I had and I

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had read the book I had read on the lock

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Ness Monster was F. W. Holliday's first book on the

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Great orm Rm of Lockness, And of course he was

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the one I'm sure you're familiar with him. He initially

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thought that perhaps this had nothing to do with the policeosaur,

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but it had something maybe more to do with a

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sort of an oversized mollusk or something like that from

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his observations. And I remember some of the incredible land

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sightings that he talked about that happened, you know, early

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in the thirties and on, and so I was, I

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was scanning the waves for the locked Nest Monster. I

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was also looking over my shoulder just in case this

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thing came bouncing off the road or something.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, Holliday was an interesting guy, and of

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course later he went into the more Your Your Cup

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of Tea with Goblin Universe and some of that kind

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of high strangeness stuff. But he was actually notable for

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being in one of nine eyewitnesses the most perhaps the

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most significant messy siding ever was I think June fifteenth,

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nineteen sixty five, and Holiday was up at the Klansman

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Hotel looking at He had just quit the Lockness Investigation Bureau.

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He wanted to do his solo research. And he saw

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this big hump moving across the loch and there were

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two guys on the other side of the lock fishing

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that also saw Sergeant Ian Cameron, who was a law

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enforcement and a local city official. Can't remembers now at

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the top of man, but anyways, there were nine people

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that watched this thing for an hour, this giant hump

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like a whale they described, surging against the tide, submerging

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coming up, moving around. And so I've gotten to know

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Ian Cameron's son Willie at loch Ness and we talk

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about all the time. We said, man, that was a

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heck of a sight. Again, he got nine witnesses. They

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didn't even see, you know, they saw each other across

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the lake looking at They were all looking at the

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same time, like do you see this? And so that

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was a yeah. So Holliday was there for that monumental

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event and very good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: He was.

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Speaker 1: He was an angler, a fisherman and that's what that's

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what brought him there and uh, and then he went

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off to uh uh he found it. You know, of course,

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a lock ness is a huge body of water and so.

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But then he heard about some of the sightings in

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Ireland and uh and so and some of those lakes

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were very small and shallow, and they thought maybe they'd

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have a better chance if they were dragging nets and

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so forth, which brings me to Andy. I'm actually going

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to be talking about loch Ness at the I'm the

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last speaker and the end of Sunday when everybody is

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going home, so the the six people that are there,

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I'll be talking about the paranormal aspects of Lockness. But

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the uh, the Irish lakes are spelled l o U

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g h. But the pronunciation sounds like lock. Is that correct?

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And yeah.

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Speaker 2: They put l A a K. Yeah, yeah, it's it's plows.

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The Roughies say it's spelled differently because it's.

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Speaker 1: It's just a confused Yanks like me. That's all okay

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with you.

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Speaker 4: At the end, I had some phlem at the end.

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Speaker 2: Exactly you said about going to kenn at fifteen O

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it's a lock ness. When I finished the school sold

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a friend of mine who was sixteen. We actually planned

241
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the camp for a week. Was that lock ness, but

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he's mum would let him go. We didn't do it

243
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because I'm really saying my friends, Oh yeah, that sounds

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fun of you.

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Speaker 4: Was she afraid he'd get eaten?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Trusted? Mean, necessarily.

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Speaker 2: That was always the plan. We talked about it for

248
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good sort of the last year at school. We do

249
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in the summer, but his parents said, no, no, I

250
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don't think you should do that.

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Speaker 1: So, Ken, how did things kind of evolve for you?

252
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I mean, when you you had this interest in animals,

253
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you were I had opportunities to go over the world,

254
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even go to locks at age fifteen and do research.

255
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I mean that was pretty amazing. But how did how

256
00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:56,720
did the I mean you've covered We're going to get

257
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to your moth Man book soon, but how did you've written?

258
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,919
How many books have you written at this stage?

259
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:04,000
Speaker 4: Seven?

260
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Speaker 1: I believe it. I've written partially one book and contributed

261
00:14:10,879 --> 00:14:13,759
a few chapters. That's all I got, you know right now?

262
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So how did these things kind of evolve for you

263
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:17,120
in the beginning?

264
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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I guess said this has been a

265
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lifelong interest of mine. But you know, I kind of

266
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was derailed by a music career. For about twenty years.

267
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I was writing, recording and producing music, touring and stuff

268
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like that, and that was kind of my passion for all.

269
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But even when I was doing that, everyone around me

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and my periphery kind of knew my passion and would

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bring me books or you know, we even on tours

272
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sometimes we would stop and you know, I would jump

273
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off on Bray Road in Wisconsin and run around for

274
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a few minutes. You know, I'm for the way from

275
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one gig to another. So but I guess things really

276
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maybe late nineties when the Internet was becoming a thing

277
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and I got online and I met these other bigfoot

278
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research in Texas where I was living, and they were

279
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,240
like they were I was like, oh wow, this is cool.

280
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These guys do this and they go out and look

281
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for it. And so I started tagging along with them

282
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and doing big foot field research throughout Texas, Louisiana and

283
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other places. And uh then I bumped into Lauren Coleman,

284
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of course, one of the icons of cryptozoology, and I

285
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asked him, you know, how can I do this, you know,

286
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to the level that you are. He said, well, you

287
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need to write a book because that opens a lot

288
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of doors. So so I wrote my first book about

289
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big bird you know, winged cryptids thunderbirds, if you will.

290
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And then around that time I was discovered by a

291
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,200
producer for the Travel Channel who was doing a show

292
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called Legend Hunters, and he, you know, interviewed me and said, hey,

293
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do you want to come do this bigfoot show? And

294
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so that, you know, that opened a lot of doors too,

295
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:50,159
because then Monster Quest and you know, once you're once

296
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you're on television, and as long as you don't crap

297
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the bed, then people start calling you back and saying, hey,

298
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you know, you're pretty good. So so, so it was

299
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just that and.

300
00:16:01,039 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 1: You know, at my age, I gotta be careful about that.

301
00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:04,799
But go ahead, now, I was just going to.

302
00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:06,519
Speaker 4: Say, you know, I had a part time job for

303
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,159
many years because it's very difficult to earn a living

304
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,320
doing this kind of stuff full time. But then in

305
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,000
twenty nineteen, I finally just said, you know, I'm screw it.

306
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,159
I'm going to go for it. And I had a

307
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,759
little bit of money in the bank and just started

308
00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:23,000
doing this kind of research full time. And you know,

309
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,279
between television shows, which really don't pay as much as

310
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,879
people think, and book royalties and doing lectures and just

311
00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:33,360
different things like that. I'm able to eke out a living.

312
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Speaker 1: So well, that's pretty cool. You know, you're one of

313
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,039
the There's not too many people that can do that. Now, me,

314
00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:45,120
I could sort of since I'm retired, but you know,

315
00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:47,919
I don't. I actually do work at the Mockman Museum

316
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,440
part time, which is I mean, they pay me to

317
00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:54,559
do that, ken, I mean, can you imagine that's.

318
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Speaker 4: A game job for sure.

319
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Speaker 1: Well, let's let me let's see. There's so much I

320
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,320
want to ask you. I was reading something that you

321
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,480
were you were being interviewed or whatever, and you were

322
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,240
talking about you know how everybody, a lot of people

323
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,559
they'll they'll report some kind of a winged creature apparition

324
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,359
or whatever it is, and it's all these stamped mothman

325
00:17:17,519 --> 00:17:20,960
or often oh it's it's mothman. Even though I'm a

326
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,119
little bit protective of my point pleasant mothman, I'm not

327
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,039
quite sure. Well, for example, have you looked much into

328
00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:30,279
the Houston Batman? Was that in the fifties?

329
00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, yeah, I know. I've worked on that case

330
00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:35,079
quite a bit because I lived in Houston for about

331
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:41,079
twenty years, so yeah, that was June eighteenth, nineteen fifty three,

332
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,480
I believe, and that was in a place called the Heights,

333
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,759
which is a neighborhood close to where I lived in Houston.

334
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Now the actual address were supposed to has happened, has

335
00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:52,279
long since been taken over by a freeway that's kind

336
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:54,839
of going over that location. But I never interviewed any

337
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,799
of the principal people because of course that was a

338
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:02,440
very old case. But I did. I did study that case,

339
00:18:02,519 --> 00:18:06,359
and then I had subsequently came up with a couple

340
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:11,240
of very vague, ambiguous, possible Houston Batman follow up sightings,

341
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but you know, I couldn't really there wasn't a lot

342
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,880
of substance to them. So I think it's just the

343
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,640
one sighting in nineteen fifty three that really And of

344
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,079
course the name Houston Batman probably similar to Mothman and

345
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,440
other cryptids, that that name was somewhat of a newspaper invention, right,

346
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:32,799
they just kind of thought it sounded cool. But just

347
00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:34,839
just for your listeners that aren't familiar, you know, this

348
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,519
was in the age, of course, the flying saucer invasion

349
00:18:38,599 --> 00:18:41,039
fears and things like that a lot of you know,

350
00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:44,240
Flatwood's Monster, Hopkinsville Goblins, a lot of stuff going on

351
00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:48,079
around the fifties. But these three people were sitting out

352
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,440
on a patio, Hilda Walker, Judy Myers, and Tom Phillips.

353
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It was hot, kind of like now, late at night.

354
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They didn't have avery conditioning, so they're sitting out on

355
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their porch and they thought this shadow of something flying

356
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,359
under the street light, and then they saw it landed

357
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:06,279
on the large branch of the contree, and they described

358
00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:07,839
it as being about a six and a half foot

359
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:12,440
tall humanoid shape with you know, wings folded against its back,

360
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:14,720
and it had kind of a glow to it, like

361
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a dull yellow glow, and it was really weird. Does

362
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,200
it seemed to be silhouette. They looked dressed like it

363
00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:22,319
dressed in a paratrooper costume with a helmet and knee

364
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,720
length boots and a like a body suit. And then

365
00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:28,000
after a few minutes, the light began to fade and

366
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it vanished, and then they saw something shoot into the

367
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,440
sky from across the street, a torpedo shaped object. And

368
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Hilda Walker was so freaked out by this that she

369
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,319
called the Houston police. They came out and then of

370
00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:42,319
course ended up in the Houston Chronicle newspaper and the

371
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,400
name Houston batman was born. So you know, all of

372
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,079
the witnesses there kind of associated it with you know,

373
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flying saucers or UFO since that was kind of so

374
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,400
much in the news around that time.

375
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,559
Speaker 1: Well, especially if it looked like it was wearing some

376
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,839
kind of a suit. Yeah, I mean, that's just you know,

377
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,880
I mean, it's bizarre enough as it is. Compare that

378
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,559
to the you remember about the year that Wisconsin man

379
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,599
bat showing up, the one that Linda Godfrey reported on.

380
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that was twenty sixteen, maybe thirteen sixteen,

381
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,839
somewhere in there, all right, and that.

382
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: Was just kind of like a big, ugly, oversized vat

383
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,640
and the father and son I think became ill afterwards

384
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:22,880
after they saw it when they went.

385
00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 4: Home, correct, And they also claimed that their dog was

386
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,359
acting weird when they got home and they were hearing

387
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,119
like banging noises. So I don't know, that's interesting. We

388
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,640
can talk about the similarities to some of the original

389
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,480
mothman cases, but you know, these claims of kind of

390
00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:40,759
residual hauntings and things that surround a mothman or a

391
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:42,000
flying humanoid sighting.

392
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes I know that. I'm going to mention the

393
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,839
Keel word now. I remember Keel wrote somewhere that he

394
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,920
thought that some of the some of the cryptids or

395
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,160
apparitions or whatever that had a glow to them might

396
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,319
be paranormal and might not actually be a physicality.

397
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, makes sense. I mean, there aren't a lot of

398
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,319
glowing animals outside of lightning bugs and you know, maybe

399
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,160
things that live in the deep ocean. But I can't

400
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,480
think of a lot of life forms on this planet

401
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,440
that amid any type of you know, energy like that.

402
00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about thunderbirds, but first,

403
00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:22,759
you have moved from Texas to upstate New York. Is

404
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:23,319
that correct?

405
00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 4: Yes? Correct, you know New York.

406
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:33,079
Speaker 1: Susie is your neighbor. She lives in Connecticut. Susie a

407
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:39,039
young lady right here. Sorry, there's so many He is

408
00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:41,039
doing a good job at hiding den.

409
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 5: That's been my vibe lately. I just lurk in the

410
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,240
shadows in the background.

411
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 4: No, you're I'm sure you'll have some great questions here

412
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:58,640
in a moment. Yeah, well, Hidi Gabor, Connecticut, huh yeah, Connecticut. Yeah, okay,

413
00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:01,400
very cool. Hey, I'm it up here. It's hot right

414
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,960
now because I don't have air conditioning. I'm in a

415
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,440
one hundred and sixteen year old house here on a

416
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,559
mountain in the woods. It's pretty cool, but it's very hot.

417
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,200
But I'm sure it'll be quite the opposite later on

418
00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:14,359
this year. But I love it. It's beautiful. People are great,

419
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,160
very friendly, the wildlife, the just the beautiful scenery. It's

420
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:20,880
really nice.

421
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 5: Have you gotten any local cryptid reports or anything from

422
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,079
your area yet?

423
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 4: Nothing really substantial. That is a good question. See, I

424
00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:32,319
knew that was coming. I've spoken to a guy named

425
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:38,000
Bruce hollandback who encountered the Kinderhook creature Kinderhook, New York,

426
00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,119
and the Kinderhook Blob, a weird bloblike creature that was

427
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,559
peeking out from behind a tree. And he's only about

428
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:46,440
an hour east to me. So I've been talking to

429
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:48,400
him and I got his book and I said, hey,

430
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,200
I want to come out and check that out. And

431
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,200
of course I've studied the Beast of Whitehall just up

432
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,839
north of us, and we have the Champ and some

433
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,960
cool lake monsters in the finger Lakes, and I've done

434
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:02,759
lot of thunderbird research in northern Pennsylvania, which isn't too

435
00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:04,519
far away. That's kind of a hot spot. So this

436
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:06,720
seems to be a good area. But I haven't heard

437
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:11,559
Steve in anything. You know, the Iroquois apparently referred to

438
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:16,480
Bigfoot as rock giants, and not necessarily because they were

439
00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:19,640
made of rocks, but because they threw rocks, you know,

440
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,960
And that's a behavior that's often associated with sasquatches, that

441
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:25,240
these rocks come curly, big rocks out of the woods

442
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,559
of people. And so that's supposedly what the local indigenous

443
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,200
people thought, that these big giants throwing rocks at them.

444
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,799
So they talk about rock giants around here quite a bit.

445
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: He's investigated the Bridgewater Triangle. I don't know if you've

446
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,400
ever been there. Yeah, yeah, no. And have you ever

447
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,480
looked at anything like a punk wedgie or little permittative

448
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,160
critters anywhere?

449
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 4: Can you describe an art typical puck wedgie? I mean,

450
00:23:54,839 --> 00:23:58,559
I'm vaguely familiar, but what would a puck wedge look like?

451
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 5: Think home? Okay, the ones in the Bridgewater Triangle are

452
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,880
they say, they're about like three feet tall, usually described

453
00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:14,720
in literature as having porcupine quills. But everyone I have

454
00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:17,759
talked to you that has seen one has not described

455
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:20,559
the quills, so we're not sure where the quills came from.

456
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,720
But then you have the Midwest Paquajis, which have like

457
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,839
a blonde bob and they wear blue smocks. So it

458
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,240
kind of varies by region.

459
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: You know, we're more stylish out here in the Midwest

460
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:36,680
where I used to live.

461
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 4: Anyway, Now that's interesting, Well, I can say, maybe not locally,

462
00:24:40,519 --> 00:24:43,839
but I've investigated some little people, if that's what we're

463
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:47,559
going to call them, in Belize, in Mexico, I investigated

464
00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:52,880
some the Duende, which means tata Duende. I've investigated that

465
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,519
down in Central America, and then in Alaska when I

466
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:59,599
was up there filming, we did an episode on the

467
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,240
little people of Alaska, which have many different names in

468
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:07,400
different cultures, Urchin Rock, jinxy Ox, and Nukins. But they

469
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,759
basically live in little holes in the ground and they're little.

470
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,119
They have magical powers. They can control time and do

471
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,359
different things like that. So yeah, there have been a few,

472
00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:20,119
you know, not certainly not to that level of your research,

473
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,559
but I've had a few of those cases come across

474
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:23,319
from time to time.

475
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: I was actually in Belize back in seventy four. Briefly,

476
00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:34,279
my buddy of mine's uncle was the Roman Catholic Bishop

477
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,480
of Belize. This is shortly after it changed from being

478
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,759
British Honduras, and we stayed in the presbytery with the priests,

479
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,359
and at night the cats would run up and down

480
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:51,720
the hallways chasing cockroaches the size of kayaks just about it,

481
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,799
So that's my memory. I didn't run into any little creatures,

482
00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:58,960
but we'd got to see some Aztec ruins, and I

483
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,359
did make a trip over to Carl They actually see those,

484
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,880
which was pretty cool, otherwise known as the Rebel bass

485
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,880
in the first Star Wars movie. Andy, you must have

486
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:19,519
a big bursting with questions here. Maybe maybe bursting is

487
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,200
of the worry, but you're you know, I'm missing something

488
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:22,839
here so far.

489
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: I think with us in the UK, because it was

490
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,640
so much smaller, cryptids don't tend to be a major

491
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,759
feature other than things like the august A lot less monster.

492
00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:34,440
They don't tend to get reports of any other the

493
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,519
occasional sort of large cat that may be not quite

494
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,319
the home tabby. So it's not only I know and

495
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,519
awful about. I'm fascinated by to listening to you guys

496
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:45,400
talking about it. Of course you've got the vast, open,

497
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:48,319
huge wilderness of North America that you can have all

498
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,039
sorts of things lurking that will be missing for years,

499
00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:53,440
decades and never be found seen. But the funnily enough,

500
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,039
having a conversation that we claim with friends as was

501
00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:58,680
heading off to our ghost investigation, talking about big Foot specifically,

502
00:26:58,759 --> 00:27:02,799
how it's such an interesting phenomenon that you have on

503
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,079
the two verses if you like the idea that is

504
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,519
some kind of unknown sort of eight like animal that's

505
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:11,880
hiding in the woods, or the interdimensional Bigfoot that appears

506
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,759
and reappears all by itself, and that I find that

507
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,720
idea the most fascinate of all the culture, that there

508
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,960
is this creature that is wandering around that does disappear

509
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,519
into other realities. It isn't for the physical. I find

510
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,359
that idea most fascinating. But there's not a lot over

511
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:29,759
here that really can compare. I mean, there are places

512
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,920
like can It Chase in the Midlands as a large

513
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,839
state that all sorts of things have been claimed about

514
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,200
over the last sort of.

515
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 3: Decade or so, but they're a bit dubious, to be honest.

516
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,880
With some of the claims have been made are.

517
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:44,599
Speaker 2: Speculative shows there, and sometimes we trace all back to

518
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,720
one particular person who was very much the motor of

519
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,279
can It Chase about twenty years ago, and it seems

520
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:51,519
to have succeeded in convincing people.

521
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,599
Speaker 3: That there were something pursuerous going on. But it's an

522
00:27:54,599 --> 00:27:56,559
area that I do find interest. As I say, but

523
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,640
it's not my field, don't when you questions, I'll.

524
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 4: No, it's great if I could just tag onto that,

525
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,759
because I love the UK, And you know, when I

526
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:09,880
think of and you're right as far as like Bigfoot

527
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,279
and Sasquatch, you know that you just don't have the

528
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,640
habitat over there. You know, maybe in the past, but

529
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:16,720
it's and I think a lot of the researchers over

530
00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:19,440
there then tend to that are into Bigfoot, tend to

531
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:23,200
fall back on those more paranormal explanations. But when I

532
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,440
think of the UK, I think of lots of lake monsters.

533
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,440
I mean, besides Messi Messi, you have lake monsters throughout Scotland, Ireland, Wales,

534
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:34,839
England and the Big Cat mystery, which I find very fascinating.

535
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,559
Between the Beast of x More and Bodmin Moore the service.

536
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:41,359
But then you also have some really weird things of course,

537
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,920
like the owl man you know from church. You have

538
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,839
the big gray Man of Ben mcdowey in Scotland, which

539
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,599
is like a big you know, like a giant that

540
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,559
lives on a mountain. And boy, but there's a bunch

541
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,640
more than a monkey man, I mean. So there's a

542
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,559
lot of really weird things that are reported from the UK.

543
00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: I think there's stories I can tell you about that.

544
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:06,720
So I've mentioned before the guys I just script back around.

545
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:09,200
I wrote a book which is a compilation of spells

546
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:13,480
and incantations section from sort of touring England and back,

547
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:16,680
a compilation from old focal Society and books. I've got

548
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,279
a collection off and amongst those are say direct spells, incantation,

549
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,960
also stories of strange crypted experiences that people have and

550
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,440
I've been trying to get around to compiling those together

551
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:29,599
into the book as well. And a couple that always

552
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,000
stick in my mind, one of which is similar thing

553
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:35,599
you just mentioned where two sailors set cells up in Scotland.

554
00:29:36,279 --> 00:29:38,680
There was a group say going on a small boat

555
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:40,519
out fishing for a couple of days that we're going

556
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,799
to go out for And the first day they were out,

557
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,519
but see something landed on the top mast. They scut

558
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:49,599
has been about five foot tall with wings and glowing

559
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,000
red eyes, and it sat up there for a couple

560
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,000
of days before it off. Literally they were like looking up.

561
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: With this thing about it called the brief report and

562
00:29:58,039 --> 00:29:59,400
saying that what is that?

563
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: What are we going to do?

564
00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:03,279
Speaker 3: Let's just keep quiet and calm, and then it just

565
00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:04,799
flew away, which I.

566
00:30:04,839 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: Thought was really quite fascinating. Another story which I found

567
00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:12,440
really strange was two young boys, I think a boy

568
00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:15,559
or girl had great skin, who, according to the report,

569
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,880
were able to teleport a cow from a cliff down

570
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,119
to the sea, the sea and back up on to

571
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,599
the cliff. Again I don't have a bit of Apparently

572
00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:25,680
these two gray beings to do it, and one of

573
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,000
them would speak, but the mouth wasn't moving. The force

574
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:32,160
was coming directly from their throat, which was strange. I mean,

575
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:34,480
it's just describe almost a matter of factory like that,

576
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,680
and you're reading the begining, Hang on, what's that? So

577
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,799
there are lots of stories and tales over in the

578
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,079
UK that, as I say, I will eventually get into

579
00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:45,799
compiling these into a book, but it is just taking

580
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,880
me a while. But yeah, there are definitely strange phenomenons.

581
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,400
I'm just trying to think of one in my locally

582
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,799
in Somerset here, but popping was not far for already

583
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:55,200
of actually, so that's something.

584
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm going I'm going to use this as an

585
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:03,200
opportunity to shamelessly plug my friend's book, The Unexplained Paranormals

586
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,559
and Encounters in the UK by Nathan Lockley. He talks

587
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:09,640
a lot about the big cat sightings.

588
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: Wing snakes.

589
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:16,079
Speaker 5: Are in here, black eyed children, the pigmy and the

590
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,640
owl Man, lots of beasts in here. Black dogs.

591
00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna say the Black Shock, that's a

592
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,839
good one. And uh and the Brentford Griffin. If you

593
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:29,319
never heard of that case, you know, a green dog

594
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,759
flying over a London suburb. That's a pretty So you

595
00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:35,160
guys get You've got that magical kind of mythical aspect

596
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,920
over there with all that great history and legends, and

597
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,400
I think that adds a cool element.

598
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I know, research right for Griffin and.

599
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,799
Speaker 1: Andy the voice coming from the throat that goes back

600
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,519
to uh, some beliefs in demonology. The demons didn't have

601
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,720
any vocal cords, so the voice was just kind of

602
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,599
out there and.

603
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,559
Speaker 2: Of mind to mind communication actually experience, and they would

604
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,279
have to explain, but that's why, that's what they were experiencing,

605
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,279
that kind of more telepathy, kind of a connection actually

606
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:09,960
hearing the voice.

607
00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: The same with some UFO pilots. Sometimes they have the

608
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,759
speaker on their chest and sometimes there is no speaker,

609
00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:19,839
but they're hearing a voice, but there's no lips moving.

610
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:23,920
So that's another kind of a weird thread that shows up.

611
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,640
So Ken, you started out writing about thunderbirds, and I

612
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:34,079
was always curious as to how things as large could

613
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,799
appropriate and stay hidden and so forth. I think you've

614
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:43,920
written about some of their their routes and so forth,

615
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:49,440
migration routes. So what what I just wonder what you

616
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,839
thought about thunderbirds when you started writing about them, if

617
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,640
you're thinking has changed at.

618
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:59,079
Speaker 4: All, Well, you know, I think thunderbird the name thunderbird

619
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,880
is kind of a compiled as it identity cryptid. To

620
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,440
borrow a term from Carl Schuker, he uses that well.

621
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,039
But you know, so there are different things getting mixed

622
00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:11,160
together in terms of the so called thunderbirds so certainly

623
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
of misidentifications. There are some large birds that people aren't

624
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,039
familiar with or don't see very often, and sometimes it's

625
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:19,119
hard to estimate the size of how big a bird

626
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,000
is depending on how high it is and where you

627
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:26,359
are and so forth. Also, you know, you have kind

628
00:33:26,359 --> 00:33:28,359
of two types of descriptions. I get a lot of

629
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,880
people that describe basically a giant raptor like you know,

630
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,920
like a hawk or an eagle, solid dark color, hooked beak,

631
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,720
usually a wingspan about fourteen or fifteen feet across on average.

632
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,960
And then you also have the people that describe these

633
00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:46,160
prehistoric looking thunderbirds that they describe like you know, batlike,

634
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:50,480
leathery wings and kind of reptilian features like a pterosaur,

635
00:33:51,079 --> 00:33:53,160
a flying reptile. So I get a lot of both

636
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,039
types of reports, and then I get the flying humanoid

637
00:33:56,079 --> 00:33:58,279
reports to get mixed mixed in as well. But what's

638
00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:00,519
interesting about thunderbirds? And I go to see Steve as

639
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:03,039
far As like compared to Bigfoot in Lake mantas like

640
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,000
NeSSI there's really not a lot of evidence in terms

641
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,679
of thunderbirds other than Native American legends and traditions from

642
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,119
different tribes and modern sightings and reports, but we don't

643
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,559
have a good controversial film even really well, we got

644
00:34:16,599 --> 00:34:20,239
one controversial film. We don't have any giant feathers or

645
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,760
eggs or nests or giant piles of bird crap that

646
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,239
have appeared mysteriously on people's cars, So we know it's

647
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,679
not a lot of evidence. But it's just fascinating to

648
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,920
me because you have so many Native American legends of

649
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,800
these thunderbirds, which the native people were certainly familiar with

650
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,119
eagles and other large birds condors in some cases, so

651
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,000
this was described as something much greater and larger than

652
00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:45,000
that often displayed on the top of a totem pole

653
00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:48,079
because of its great power soaring through the air. But

654
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,599
I've interviewed dozens of people, credible people that seemingly credible,

655
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,159
people that claim that they've seen these giant winged creatures

656
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,840
flying around. And so that was kind of the spring

657
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,559
or the launch into my flying humanoid investigations because I

658
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:07,519
did an episode on thunderbirds for the show Monster Quest

659
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,559
back in the day, and then the next season the

660
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:12,679
producers called me back and said, hey, this was in

661
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,719
two thousand and nine. They said, there have been some

662
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,360
recent mothman sightings in Mexico, you want to go down

663
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,519
there and investigate those? And I said, sure, yeah, I'd

664
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:22,039
like to look into that. So I went down and

665
00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:27,000
did a flying Humanoid episode from Mexico in two thousand

666
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,000
and nine, and once that happened, that a lot of

667
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,039
these Mothman and flying humanoid eyewitnesses began reaching out to

668
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,400
me with their accounts. You know, as you know, Steve,

669
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:41,800
when someone has had an experience like this, it's often

670
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,039
very therapeutic for them to reach out to an investigator

671
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:48,280
or someone that has you know, can will basically listen

672
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,480
without judgment or ridicule and say, okay, other people claim

673
00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:56,920
they've seen that too, or you know, whatever closure they

674
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,519
can get, you know, or they just want to share

675
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:02,360
those So anyways, I've interviewed, subsequently interviewed dozens of people

676
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,400
that claim that they've either encountered the Mothman or other

677
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,199
creatures like Mothman.

678
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:12,559
Speaker 1: So remember tom Ury. Tom Murray one of the original witnesses,

679
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:15,280
he really saw a thunderbird. He did not see the Mothman.

680
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,400
It was misreported. I think it was actually originally a

681
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,280
misreporter by Mary Hyer who yes, and uh and Jacques

682
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,599
Filet and John Keel and others quoted that and really

683
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:34,320
got it, really got Tom Stander up. You know, he

684
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:36,719
would be at the Mothman Festival at one of the

685
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,000
tables talking about his sighting and he'd have he'd have

686
00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:42,800
a Valet's book, he'd have Keel's book and he'd have

687
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,960
the places yellow that the way they made mistakes and

688
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,280
Grey Barker too, So he he confronted both Gray Barker

689
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,760
and John Keel about the mistake. But you know, he

690
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,840
originally thought that the other witnesses were saw the same

691
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,039
thing he did, but due to the freak out factor,

692
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,119
they added the details. But then he was traveling to

693
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,599
remember how they filmed the Mothman Prophecies, some of it

694
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,760
in Catanning, Pennsylvania. He was with Marcella Bennett going to

695
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:16,119
do a promotion for the film back in two thousand

696
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:19,000
and two. They told each other their stories. Marcella is

697
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:21,719
the one that was holding her infant child when he

698
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,119
saw this thing rise up out of the ground, and

699
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:28,599
he decided that they had actually seen different things. He

700
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,199
was sitting there with Linda Scarberry when she was still

701
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,039
with us Fade de Witt at the table at them

702
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:40,320
at one of the festivals, and you know, you think

703
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,880
everybody that's seen Mothman, they all know each other well

704
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,360
the first time they had met, and so that was

705
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,519
kind of cool to talk to get all their stories.

706
00:37:49,559 --> 00:37:54,360
Do you remember a wave of reports of thunderbirds in

707
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,000
the forties? Was it in the Saint Louis area? Okay?

708
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: Forty eight? Several sightings and there was even a kernel

709
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,360
I think his name was William Sigmund, who was an

710
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,400
Air Force colonel that was on an air base there.

711
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,960
This was mostly around Alton, Illinois, just outside of Saint Louis,

712
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,840
and he claimed that he saw this B twenty nine

713
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,320
sized airplane or bird flying over along with another colonel.

714
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,559
And then there were other reports too, So yeah, these

715
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:29,400
thunderbird reports seemed to come in waves. You have the forties,

716
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,559
as you mentioned near Saint Louis. In the early seventies,

717
00:38:32,599 --> 00:38:37,320
there were you know, northern Pennsylvania Susquehanna River Valley. Also

718
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,719
in the mid seventies, you had another flap in Illinois

719
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,239
in nineteen seventy seven with the Lawndale incident where the

720
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,880
young boy got picked up allegedly by a thunderbird. So yeah,

721
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,840
and then big bird in Texas, which is how I

722
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,719
started my research. That was a cluster. So you have

723
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,400
these clusters or flaps of these big bird sightings and

724
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,639
then they kind of disappear for a while.

725
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: Let me do my intermission here really quick. You were

726
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,639
listening to The High Strangers Factor copyrighted on the Paranormal

727
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,840
UK Radio Network. Today we are talking to Ken Gearhart

728
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,360
about his investigations, research and his books. Yeah. The other

729
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,519
Keel of course has a chapter what is it the

730
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,559
Flutter of black Wings or something like that, early in

731
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:23,480
the Monckmann prophecies where he covers all kinds of bizarre

732
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:30,199
winged reports and he touches on that Saint Louis flap.

733
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,320
And I'll never forget the one guy he quotes, some

734
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,800
guy that wrote he said, I've seen the thing what

735
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,480
was it? Three times in the last four days. And

736
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:43,360
that's too much tom foolry for a man of fifty

737
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,199
to take. I'm thinking, what about a man of seventy

738
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,440
two for crying out loud?

739
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,519
Speaker 4: But so yeah, and I just want to add one

740
00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:55,039
thing to your West Virginia Thomas Ury. I use that

741
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:58,239
as an example when I'm talking about, you know, could

742
00:39:58,679 --> 00:40:01,440
mothman be a thunderbird of of some type. There are.

743
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,360
I've collected at least a couple of interesting thunderbird reports

744
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,039
from West Virginia that described more of the traditional thunderbird creatures. So,

745
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,239
and of course other cryptos olds like Lauren Coleman and

746
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,679
I mentioned earlier, and Mark mark Hall, who sadly passed

747
00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:22,159
away a few years ago, still always advocated that the

748
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,239
mothman was a giant owl, some kind of giant man

749
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,519
sized owl unknown to science, or a thunderbird or something

750
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:32,159
like that. They kind of rejected, I think, or may

751
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,719
still reject. I don't know. When I posted about my

752
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,079
new book online, Lauren put up a comment about hmm,

753
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,559
flying humanoids. Huh, So that's what you're going with. So

754
00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:44,000
I know he and Mark Hall were close, and they

755
00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:47,400
always advocated that big hoot, right, Steve, That's what they

756
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,320
called it, instead of big foot, it was big hoot.

757
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,039
It was a six foot owl.

758
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: That's a big bird. Yeah. Well, if some of the

759
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,519
I've spoken to several excuse me, of the original witnesses,

760
00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:03,559
like Linda Siegmund, for example, and you know, whatever the

761
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:06,119
heck it was, it was not a giant owl. I

762
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:09,679
don't think giant owls don't seem to create poltergeist phenomenon.

763
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:12,559
When people went home for a couple of weeks, they

764
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:15,719
had these bizarre outbreaks At the researcher named Friends and

765
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,639
at foul Keel into Point Pleasant a year or two later,

766
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,159
interviewed some of the same witnesses and more, and they

767
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:26,920
were constantly getting these reports of a Poultergeist outbreak afterwards,

768
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:32,199
suggesting something else is going on. But now you your

769
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,800
more recent book, it covers Mothman and other wing creatures.

770
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,599
What's the actual title of it.

771
00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 4: It's The Essential Guide to Mothman and Other Flying Humanoids.

772
00:41:43,519 --> 00:41:46,559
Speaker 1: Okay, so how will this differ from some of your

773
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:49,400
earlier books? What else? What can we expect to find there?

774
00:41:50,199 --> 00:41:53,559
Speaker 4: Well, truthfully, it's somewhat revised from a book I published

775
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:56,639
in twenty thirteen called Encounters of Flying Humanoids, but I

776
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,880
added a lot more in in terms of like, you know,

777
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,599
the Chicago Mothman case and some other modern reports that

778
00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:08,159
I've collected. And I also eliminated a few cases that

779
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,519
I looked back on and thought, Okay, maybe that wasn't

780
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:16,039
connected or substantial or whatever. And you know, I consulted

781
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:18,360
with a lot of people you know, yourself included, and

782
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,400
other people. Just to make sure that. I've written two

783
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,239
other books, Essential Guides. One is the Essential Guide to

784
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,320
Bigfoot and one is the Essential Guide to the Lockness

785
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,239
Monster and other aquatic cryptids. And what I try to

786
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,159
offer the reader is very accurate, objective information because we

787
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,239
live in a day and age with social media and

788
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,320
all of these channels where there's just a lot of

789
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,559
storytelling and you know, if you can watch, you know

790
00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:44,679
not to be a cryptid snob, Steve, but I'm sure

791
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:46,880
you're the same way if you watch a bunch of

792
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:49,800
short YouTube videos on the mothmn that these people are

793
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,760
putting together for like ten minutes, and they're full of inaccuracies,

794
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,639
and you're watching it going, no, that's not right, that

795
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,480
wasn't the right, you know. So you want to provide

796
00:42:58,519 --> 00:43:00,960
the reader with the most accurate, different information so that

797
00:43:01,079 --> 00:43:06,079
they can make their own judgments and determinations as far

798
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:08,000
as what they think really happened, you know, or what

799
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:12,639
could be going on. So yeah, so some new cases

800
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:15,239
in there, the Ottawa Angel from Canada that was in

801
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,840
twenty thirteen, and some flying humanoid cases from West Texas.

802
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,920
I investigated that described a twelve foot winged humanoid with

803
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,840
angelic wings and long flowing hair and other weird features.

804
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: So did you ever look into the e calls Ika

805
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,480
ls Oh, yeah, Central America. Yeah, little guys who seem

806
00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:39,599
to have jet packs on their back or something like that.

807
00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:44,159
Speaker 4: They live in caves, you know. Yeah, yeah, there's a

808
00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:45,800
lot of those, you know, and I talk about that

809
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,280
as well, because you know, with regard to flying humanoids,

810
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,679
and you know, there's there are some connections I think,

811
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,920
in terms of these different types, even though the physical

812
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,960
descriptions often vary dramatically from what we think of in

813
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:03,760
terms of the tradition mothman archetype from from Scarberry and

814
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,159
Bennett and all those other eyewitnesses Connie Carpenter. But you know,

815
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,280
there are there are some similarities in the cases. But

816
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,519
there's also a lot of evidence in antiquity, if we

817
00:44:14,599 --> 00:44:18,000
look back at ancient mythologies and legends as far back

818
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:21,199
as seventeen three hundred years ago, there's a cave painting

819
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,199
in France of something called the Birdman of Lascaux, which

820
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,039
is basically a man figure with a bird's head no wings.

821
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:31,440
But that's weird. An anthropomorphic creature. And then you know,

822
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:35,760
the ancient Assyrians had the Apcalu, these winged humanoids from

823
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:42,559
the sky. The ancient I think the Assyrians actually I'm sorry,

824
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:46,719
was Pezuzu. Sumerians were the Apcollo, but you know, Pazusu was.

825
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:50,280
You know, we're mentioning demons earlier. You know, Pazuzu was

826
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,440
a demon, a winged demon, but it had a human

827
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,719
shaped form, and it was often associated with disasters. You know,

828
00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:00,840
they if Pazuzu came, that meant there was going to

829
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,320
be a flood or a famine or some horrible catastrophe.

830
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:08,239
So it's interesting you find that theme, you know, thousands

831
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,760
of years ago, and another on another continent.

832
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:16,079
Speaker 3: Harsh wings from the west, the lion's head on the wings.

833
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: Yes, is that the one that showed up in the

834
00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:24,360
beginning of The exorcistem Okay was framed.

835
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:28,599
Speaker 3: We have no proof it was him, you know, actually him,

836
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:29,960
but it's become demonalized. Of course.

837
00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: I just wonder how much he got paid. There was

838
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:33,280
probably only scale.

839
00:45:33,679 --> 00:45:39,599
Speaker 3: You know, it's fool would fit would describe me here

840
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:40,559
with the wings especially?

841
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, very cool. You know I had a couple other

842
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,000
really good questions, and I didn't write them down, so

843
00:45:48,039 --> 00:45:52,079
I've lost them. So I know another back to thunderbirds

844
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:54,880
a little bit. What about the bizarre case. I mean

845
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:58,400
there is uh well, I know, before we get to that,

846
00:45:59,199 --> 00:46:01,679
some of these things, you know, as you know, I'm Achelian,

847
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,199
and what I don't believe all these things are, you know,

848
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,079
trans modifications of energy or altra terrestrials or whatever. It

849
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,760
is possible that some of these that are more ethereal

850
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,559
more paranormal, perhaps the same source, whatever that may be,

851
00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:21,119
is responsible for them, and they manifest in different ways,

852
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,320
you know, So perhaps it's the same energy or whatever

853
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,599
in some cases, but it just comes about in different ways.

854
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:30,519
But what I was wanted to you to talk about

855
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,760
was the case was it in Illinois where that a

856
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,320
young child was actually picked up by something by a

857
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,199
large bird? I mean that puts it right in the

858
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,880
physical Yes.

859
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,199
Speaker 4: Eight point thirty on the evening of July twenty fifth,

860
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,559
nineteen seventy seven, Londale, Illinois, there was a young boy

861
00:46:48,679 --> 00:46:51,039
named Marlon Lowe. He was nine years old. He weighed

862
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,039
about sixty five pounds. He was playing hide and seek

863
00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:56,000
with two other friends in the yard. Travis Goodwin and

864
00:46:56,199 --> 00:46:59,960
Michael Thompson I think, and his parents and two family friends.

865
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:02,719
The adults were out in the yard doing something as well,

866
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,840
and in front of all of these seven eye witnesses,

867
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,880
these two great birds swooped down. One of them dove

868
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,039
it one of Marlin's friends, and then the eventually came

869
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:16,280
and picked up Marlin by his shirt strap he was

870
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,119
wearing a tank top and carried him for about thirty

871
00:47:19,199 --> 00:47:23,119
feet just off the ground while he fought back and

872
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,599
kicked and fought his way free. And then the birds

873
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:32,039
flew off together. And Marlon's mother, Ruth, who witnessed the

874
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:35,599
whole thing, obviously was horrified. She debated whether she should

875
00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:37,559
call anyone because she didn't think she'd be believed, but

876
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:40,679
ultimately she was concerned for other children's safety, so she

877
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:45,000
contacted the local police and then it became the Lawndale incident.

878
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:49,960
So yeah, that's a you know, are pretty weird case.

879
00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:53,119
You know, if you consider the weight of Marlon Lowe

880
00:47:53,159 --> 00:47:57,639
at sixty five pounds, generally speaking, a bird of prey

881
00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:01,159
can only pick up about half its body maybe, you know,

882
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,760
I mean, they're birds, even big birds are very lightweight.

883
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,880
They have hollow bones, and they're not. They have powerful

884
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,119
claus but you know the physics, so it's weird, you know.

885
00:48:11,199 --> 00:48:13,960
And then local officials, much like sandhill cranes have been

886
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,039
brought up and where they art a mothman. All the

887
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:18,280
local people in Illinois, the walle if officials said, oh,

888
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:22,119
those are just turkey vultures. Well, certainly turkey vultures are

889
00:48:22,159 --> 00:48:24,119
not able to pick up anything. They don't have the

890
00:48:24,199 --> 00:48:27,599
strength in their talents. So that that's a famous case.

891
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,679
And Steve, I've got a great set, if you don't

892
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:32,360
mind me taking me a taking a segue here, because

893
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,320
you were talking about you like this as achilium. So

894
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,679
a few years ago I interviewed several eyewitnesses who claim

895
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,320
to have seen something called the dog Man, which is

896
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,760
anthropomorphic creature with ahetable wolf for a dog and a

897
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,239
human like body. So for a project, I interviewed many

898
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,280
people who claim to have encountered this dog man phenomenon.

899
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,159
And what occurred to me after all of these interviews

900
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,880
is that it's except for the physical description of the

901
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,639
creature itself, all of the particular surrounding the incidents in

902
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,559
terms of the trauma, the hyper aggressive behavior, the weird

903
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:11,760
glowing eyes and glows and weird is just like mothman

904
00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:15,840
and flying humanoids. So I think Keel would take that

905
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,880
opportunity to say that in fact, this is the same phenomenon,

906
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,039
and whatever this thing is that's manifesting, these monsters that

907
00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:27,400
are scaring people have to death take different forms, and

908
00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:30,639
sometimes it's a winged creature, but sometimes it may be

909
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,719
something like a wolfheaded or you know, were wolf type

910
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,480
of creature. Sometimes it might be another type of monster.

911
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:40,599
You know, for all kinds of different descriptions of weird

912
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:47,480
creatures that don't fit into the paradigm of natural history.

913
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:50,559
So their physical descriptions are too weird to be anything

914
00:49:50,639 --> 00:49:53,400
that evolved on our planet. But when you look at

915
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,440
the trauma and all the residual you know, Linda Godfrey

916
00:49:57,159 --> 00:50:00,320
would have talked. You know, she was the see one

917
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,039
of the first investigators of the dog man phenomenon, and

918
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,119
she found these patterns wherein you know, people would see

919
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:09,599
dog Man and there were these weird green mists that

920
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:12,320
would appear when they were having their sighting, and there

921
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,840
were weird crackling and popping noises like there was an

922
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,199
electricity in the air, and residual hauntings to the eyewitnesses

923
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,599
or multiple experience or UFO sightings. I don't know about

924
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:25,119
men in black. I can't think of any dog what

925
00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:25,840
it is they got.

926
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:29,119
Speaker 1: But she found a correlation with some of the epigy

927
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:32,679
mounds in southern Wisconsin, and they wind up perfectly with

928
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,519
some of the groupings of dog man reports and most

929
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:43,320
specifically panther epigy mounds and spirit epigy mounds. Isn't that bizarre?

930
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:45,079
Speaker 3: And I was.

931
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:48,159
Speaker 1: I've spoken at the Beast of Bray Road conference a

932
00:50:48,199 --> 00:50:51,159
couple of times, and the great part of that is

933
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:52,920
have you been out there? Have you been out to

934
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:53,800
Lee Hample's farm?

935
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 4: No? No, I know who he is, but I haven't

936
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:57,119
been to his property.

937
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: What he does is he'll for for two hours. You'll

938
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,079
sit there in his barn and they'll show you photographs

939
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:06,800
that he's taken in that area, uh, with trap cameras,

940
00:51:07,159 --> 00:51:10,559
and there's bizarre things in the sky. There's footprints of

941
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:16,400
these things that start nowhere, split into two like two creatures,

942
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,800
and then go off and end somewhere. I mean, it's

943
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,719
just and he's taken thousands of these And when he

944
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,960
tells the story about how when he moved, you know,

945
00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:29,119
and he retired. He's a mathematician and a chemist. And

946
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,320
when his neighbors said, you know, there's a werewolf those

947
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,639
lives back in those woods, he's looking at him like

948
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,039
like they're crazy. But then he sees it himself. He

949
00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:41,000
a couple of times, and he has missing time himself.

950
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,480
It's uh, you know, you're you're right. The whatever this

951
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:50,239
thing is does seem to be surrounded by something truly bizarre.

952
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:53,840
And and you talk about those mists, he uh, he's

953
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,679
got he's he's standing there on his he's captured by

954
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,840
his trap camera. There's a mist that's surrounding him and

955
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:01,280
he doesn't see it in real time.

956
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:05,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty weird stuff. And I guess when when

957
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,280
you investigate all these different types of cases, to me,

958
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,679
it really comes down to two possible I won't say explanations,

959
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,440
because I think a lot of this stuff is really

960
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:17,960
beyond our understanding at this point. But there's the kilium

961
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:21,840
theory that there is the quote unquote cosmic joker, some

962
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,280
type of ultraterrestrial intelligence that is, for whatever reason, this

963
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,960
intelligence is manifesting and kind of interacting with us in

964
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,599
these ways that we don't understand. And then the other

965
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,440
possibility is that this is a phenomenon from within ourselves,

966
00:52:38,159 --> 00:52:41,360
and that somehow we are able to project or manifest

967
00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:45,280
like a tulpa, some type of physical creature into our

968
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,760
reality for a brief moment of time. And I don't

969
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,480
understand or couldn't explain the mechanics of how that could

970
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,400
be possible. But there's just so much we don't know about,

971
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,599
you know, the powers of like I say, magical powers,

972
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:01,679
but you know what we're capable of, you know, in

973
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,079
terms of our interaction with our reality.

974
00:53:05,639 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 5: I have a very important question for you. Between a

975
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:12,840
dog man and mothman, who do you think would win

976
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:13,320
in a fight?

977
00:53:14,159 --> 00:53:14,280
Speaker 1: Oh?

978
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's I think that's a sci fi

979
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:18,480
movie in the making.

980
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: Let's see, remember when they used to make those really

981
00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:26,880
cheesy movies for what Friday or Saturday Night, Just awful

982
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,800
stuff with the worst cgi imaginable.

983
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,639
Speaker 4: But go ahead, that's no let's see. Well, mothman certainly

984
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,320
has the power of flight, so he can attack from above,

985
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,000
so that's pretty intimidating. But some of these dog man

986
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:44,320
that people describe are pretty powerful, you know, like like

987
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,440
a big sasquatch, seven feet tall with these broad shoulders

988
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,320
and sharp, razor sharp teeth. So I think Mothman we

989
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:52,920
don't even know if it has a mouth, right, So

990
00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:57,639
maybe dog Man would just bite, bite poor Mothman to death.

991
00:53:57,679 --> 00:53:59,159
I don't know, that's a that's a great question.

992
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 5: Mothman's known to make that high pitch squeak. Yeah, maybe

993
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:07,079
that's just what our ears can register. You can make

994
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:09,360
an even higher pitch noise. It would be like a

995
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,679
dog whistle for the dog man and scare him away.

996
00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:16,119
Speaker 1: No, let me tell you as an expert, Mothman expert,

997
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:20,039
don't let h there's somebody that doesn't want to hear that.

998
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 3: But uh not here.

999
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: But uh, what Mathlam would do is simply chase the

1000
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,239
dog man. Just stay a little bit out of reach.

1001
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,440
Dog Man would be snipping at him and going nuts,

1002
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,480
and that's all he would do. He just chase him

1003
00:54:33,559 --> 00:54:34,639
until he uh.

1004
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 5: Well, dogs don't seem to like Mothman or they don't

1005
00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:39,880
fare well with him sometimes.

1006
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: Well perhaps you know if those some of those stories

1007
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,840
are true. But we were actually the uh uh, the

1008
00:54:48,519 --> 00:54:54,840
Merle Partridge encounter with Bandit his dog. He clarified that

1009
00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:58,239
I think I think some of the Keel's problems were, uh,

1010
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,039
those faceless energery, because if you read a report he

1011
00:55:02,119 --> 00:55:06,480
did on Mural Partridge and bandit, it's it's much more accurate.

1012
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:09,559
It's it's actually an accurate report. In the Mockman prophecies,

1013
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,400
it implies that it was the Mothman, when actually he

1014
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,199
told Jeff Walmsley they were just kind of spinning lights.

1015
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:18,079
It was implied it was electrical. So we don't even

1016
00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:21,639
know that Mothman was the culprit for Mural Partridge. And

1017
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:26,239
I still see books printed with his name incorrect new

1018
00:55:26,599 --> 00:55:30,519
Cartridge that was Barker and Keel got that from his

1019
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:34,440
birth certificate. It was misspelled in this actually.

1020
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,599
Speaker 4: Mural Partridge, not to anybody cares, but you know, no,

1021
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:39,400
we got to keep facts matter.

1022
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 1: If I was he's no longer with us, But if

1023
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,920
I was alive and will and they were mispronouncing my

1024
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:49,360
name in books all over the place, I'd be pretty angry.

1025
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:54,000
I think, well, I think we're getting we're getting close

1026
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:56,480
to our time here. So so Ken, give us a

1027
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,639
tell us about the books you have available where people

1028
00:56:00,679 --> 00:56:07,000
can find you and any are you guys hearing story anything?

1029
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: Yes, I understand it.

1030
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: Must be my must be my awesome voice or something

1031
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,000
that's weird. Okay, but anyway, Yeah, give us, give us

1032
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,159
a lowdown on what how to find you and things

1033
00:56:24,199 --> 00:56:27,239
you've got coming up. Of course we'll talk about the

1034
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,119
Mothman Festival again. Schedule, it's not I'm assuming you'll be

1035
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:37,000
speaking on Saturday, but I believe Saturday at two is okay,

1036
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:37,559
very good.

1037
00:56:38,119 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Thank you guys for having me great conversation.

1038
00:56:42,199 --> 00:56:45,320
I expected that for sure. Yeah. My news book is

1039
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,559
the Essential Guide to Mothman and other Flying Humanoids. I've

1040
00:56:48,599 --> 00:56:50,719
also written The Essential Guide to the Lockness Monster and

1041
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,639
Other Aquatic Cryptids, Any Essential Guide to Bigfoot, among others.

1042
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,920
You can find them all on Amazon dot com, many

1043
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,880
of them in kindle form as well. If people can

1044
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,679
go to my website Kengearhard dot com and there's different

1045
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,360
links to buy the books. I do online courses on

1046
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:10,239
cryptozoology and different cryptids, and a couple of cool events

1047
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,599
coming up. I'm going to be, as you mentioned, at

1048
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:18,400
Mothman Festival. I'll also be at Goblin Con in Hopkinsville,

1049
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,159
Kentucky in October is the fiftieth anniversary of the Kelly

1050
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:27,039
Hopkinsville Goblin invasion, which is a pretty cool story. And

1051
00:57:27,719 --> 00:57:29,920
so you know a few Bigfoot conferences here and there

1052
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:30,840
along the way as well.

1053
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: So is there a place that if people have had

1054
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,760
experiences or siting scandy contact you on your website?

1055
00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:40,159
Speaker 4: Yes, if you go to my website, there's actually a

1056
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:42,159
tab at the top that says report is siting, and

1057
00:57:42,239 --> 00:57:44,599
you can fill out a brief description. And I, of

1058
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:48,679
course always will honor someone's privacy and anonymity if they

1059
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,639
don't want their name or anything published. Of course I'm

1060
00:57:51,679 --> 00:57:53,840
not going to do that, but I do like to

1061
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,840
collect those reports and add them to my database for

1062
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:58,719
you know who knows evidence.

1063
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: Actually. Well, Ken, thank you so much for being here.

1064
00:58:03,679 --> 00:58:08,000
And if if lady and gentlemen, do you have any

1065
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,519
parting questions or for comments for Ken?

1066
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:16,119
Speaker 2: Ye, I'm good, Okay, I'm must be boiling him. I

1067
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,880
can think interesting. It's mean to you as I say, And.

1068
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:25,719
Speaker 1: I can tell you Susie's question about who would who

1069
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,079
would beat the other one mothman or the dog man

1070
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:32,199
was totally unscripted. Okay, let me do, let me do.

1071
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,159
Everybody sit tight, let me do the close out again. Ken,

1072
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,840
thanks for coming, Thank you all. The heightst Rangis Factor

1073
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,360
was created by Steve Ward and Any Mercer, and it's

1074
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,039
copywritered on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Our Fearless Leader

1075
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:47,440
is at the network our I ring, Alan block, Mark

1076
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:50,840
Johnson and Andy Mercer. Andy is also producer of the

1077
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,880
show and composer of the closing theme. Brian Zeller composed

1078
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,599
the opening theme for the show. Susie Bastile provided the

1079
00:58:58,599 --> 00:59:02,440
extremely connection otherwise nobody'd hear us. And I can also

1080
00:59:02,599 --> 00:59:06,039
be heard on mcmlloney's Military X Files as a correspondent

1081
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,559
every week, and I often do a refringe report at

1082
00:59:10,639 --> 00:59:15,480
that time. And macloney's Military X Files can also be

1083
00:59:15,599 --> 00:59:19,159
heard on this network and many other platforms. And I

1084
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:21,800
am Steve Lord, your humble host here on the Highest

1085
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:27,280
Rangess Factor. Displaced Michigander deep in the Ohio Valley, living

1086
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,039
on the same road that the Mothman chased the two

1087
00:59:30,119 --> 00:59:34,239
couples on November fifteenth, nineteen sixty six. We will see

1088
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,039
you all again in about a fortnight, closer to a

1089
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:41,400
fortnite this time than usual here on the Paranormal UK

1090
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,079
Radio Network. Take care