1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,480 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,640 go to thepeteclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,679 smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,679 your support. Pete Calendar here and well, you know, overnight, 10 00:00:34,039 --> 00:00:40,799 well not overnight, late yesterday, the North Carolina General Assembly leaders, 11 00:00:41,079 --> 00:00:44,719 the Speaker of the House, and the President pro tempore 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:46,960 or however that's pronounced. 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: I still don't know. 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: And I one time did ask Senator Phil Berger how 15 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,679 he pronounces it, and he just said pro temp So 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,799 I guess anyway, So Phil Berger and Destin Hall announced 17 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:04,359 that they would be when the legislature comes back into session, 18 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:08,480 they are going to draw a new map for the 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:14,040 fourteen congressional seats, and by all indications, all the reporting 20 00:01:14,079 --> 00:01:17,159 seems to be that they're going to try to ring 21 00:01:17,239 --> 00:01:22,400 out one more Republican seat. Believe we've got there are 22 00:01:22,599 --> 00:01:25,799 what fourteen seats eleven of the noor No. Ten of 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,760 them are held by Republicans, four held by Democrats, So 24 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:33,560 this would if they are able to do it, they 25 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,959 would draw eleven seats for Republicans and three for Democrats, 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,640 and the likely target is District one, current Democrat incumbent 27 00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:46,359 Don Davis in that seat. Let me bring on, as 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,879 we always do on Tuesdays at noon. It is Andrew Dunn. 29 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:52,599 He is a contributing columnist over at the Charlotte Observer 30 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:56,400 but also the publisher of long Leaf Politics. You can 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,760 head on over there to longleafpol dot com read his work. 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,319 Subscribe Andrew. How are you today, sir, Oh. 33 00:02:05,079 --> 00:02:07,079 Speaker 3: I'm doing well. Always good to be with you. 34 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:11,599 Speaker 1: So you had a piece that hit the Observer on 35 00:02:11,879 --> 00:02:15,039 the redrawing of the maps. When did you have time 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,360 to write this bad boy up? 37 00:02:18,479 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 4: Yeah? 38 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:21,319 Speaker 3: That was my project this morning. I thought you had 39 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:26,199 a really good summation of the situation just then. My 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,800 view on this is when I look at something like this, 41 00:02:29,319 --> 00:02:32,159 I think about what's the upside here versus what's the 42 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,039 downside here? You know, how good could this be versus 43 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,439 how bad could it possibly be? I don't know about you. 44 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,800 I'm a pretty conservative investor. I don't do the crypto 45 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:46,520 or the DraftKings or anything like that. I like bets 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,599 that have a lot of upside and just a little 47 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:52,919 bit of downside, you know, low risk, high reward. 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,199 Speaker 1: So wait, the headline here is the headline is conservative? 49 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,360 Is conservative? Is that the Is that the headline on that? 50 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 4: Yeah? 51 00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go. But this, I think, I think 52 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,360 redrawing these congressional maps are the opposite. I view this 53 00:03:08,599 --> 00:03:14,280 as a low upside, high potential downside bet to make here. 54 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,199 You know, the upside is very limited, right, so we 55 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:19,960 could potentially go from a ten to four map to 56 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,080 an eleven to three map. You know, you get one 57 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,199 more congressional Republican, which is a good thing. Does it 58 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:28,680 move the needle a whole lot? 59 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 4: No? 60 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,759 Speaker 3: And you know, you make President Donald Trump pathy, which 61 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,840 I think is another good thing, but it can be sickle, 62 00:03:37,879 --> 00:03:41,400 and I don't know how tangible the benefits there are. 63 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:47,159 On the downside, I think the best likelihood is that 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,280 nothing really bad would happen. I think voters tend to 65 00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:53,759 not get too in the weeds and redistrict thing. They 66 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,759 don't care all that much, So I think the most 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,039 likely scenario is that everything's fine and nothing bad happened. 68 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,960 But there is a small but not completely irrelevant, downside 69 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,680 risk that this feeds into a broader narrative that makes 70 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,400 it harder for Republicans in elections down the line, especially 71 00:04:14,439 --> 00:04:18,000 looking at the judicial race elections in twenty twenty eight. 72 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: All right, so let me go over some of the upside. 73 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,920 You said it was limited. What about the makeup of 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,879 the US House of Representatives? Right, we got because all 75 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,560 this started, Texas did its mid decade or a mid 76 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:39,759 decade redistricting, drawing more districts for Republicans. They cite the 77 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,439 use of non citizens counted in the last census. There 78 00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:47,720 were also a bunch of problems with the counting in 79 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:51,639 the census that we found out afterwards, where red states. 80 00:04:52,079 --> 00:04:55,199 I think there were five of the six states that 81 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,920 were undercounted were Republican and something like five of the 82 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:02,959 six states were over counted were Democrats. So there is 83 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:08,639 a belief that Democrats have about a dozen seats too 84 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:14,120 many because of illegal immigrants and also the census problems 85 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,240 from twenty twenty. 86 00:05:15,639 --> 00:05:17,319 Speaker 2: So Texas started it. 87 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: California is now going to a ballot referendum to ask 88 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:24,639 its voters, Hey, can we abandon this constitutional method that 89 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,199 we were using with this independent redistricting commission which I 90 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,959 won't even get into that because I don't believe it 91 00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:33,759 to be independent, which has drawn Republicans basically out of 92 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:39,040 existence in California as part of their delegation. So California 93 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,439 is looking to retaliate Illinois looking to retaliate We had 94 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,879 the Maryland maps, and so there is a power play 95 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,240 going on across the country to try to secure more 96 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,040 seats in the House, right, and so against that backdrop, 97 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:59,639 and if Democrats are successful in out jerrymandering Republicans, then 98 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:05,480 we end up with impeachments, subpoenas, investigations, the blocking of 99 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,680 the Trump agenda for the final two years. Right, all 100 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,560 of those could be pretty serious downsides if you end 101 00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:17,839 up losing the House by a single congressional seat, if 102 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:19,040 North Carolina doesn't do it. 103 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:19,959 Speaker 2: So what do you say to that? 104 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you raise good points, and I don't 105 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,800 have a problem with partisan jerry pandering per se. I 106 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,519 think in North Carolina Republicans have done a pretty good 107 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,560 job at drawing the maps. I think that they give 108 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,839 Republicans an advantage, which is totally their prerogative to do. 109 00:06:39,439 --> 00:06:42,000 But we don't see any of those crazy, you know, 110 00:06:42,079 --> 00:06:45,040 really crazy districts that we had under Democrats in the 111 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:48,439 two thousands. I'm thinking of District twelve, which looked like 112 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,800 a snake. I mean, that was just absolutely insane. So 113 00:06:52,879 --> 00:06:56,920 what my concern is here is trying to kind of 114 00:06:57,519 --> 00:07:00,240 go that extra step. So I think we have pretty 115 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,439 good maps. We finally reached equilibrium, most of the court 116 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,920 cases have been settled. We're finally ready after two decades 117 00:07:07,959 --> 00:07:11,000 of never ending legal trouble to finally be in a 118 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,879 spot where we have pretty good maps and no real 119 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:19,040 risk to them. Is it worth going that extra step 120 00:07:19,079 --> 00:07:21,839 and trying to squeeze out one more And I just 121 00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:24,120 don't see it as worth It. 122 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: Is the juice worth the squeeze, That's what I always 123 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:27,160 ask myself. 124 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,639 Speaker 2: Is the juice worth the squeeze? 125 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: And sounds like you're saying, no, it is not worth 126 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,680 the squeeze for the legislature. 127 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:36,879 Speaker 3: But yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I also, I 128 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,879 don't know, you know, I think that there could probably 129 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,160 be a way to you know, take a little bit 130 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,079 out of District three. Greg Murphy's district put it in 131 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,040 district one kind of shift of voters around a little 132 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,240 bit to accomplish that. But I also know that once 133 00:07:52,279 --> 00:07:56,120 you start moving lines, then a lot more lines start moving. 134 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,959 You know, there's a lot of requirements around equal popular 135 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:05,560 If I'm a sitting congress person, I certainly don't want 136 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:08,639 these lines redrawn and not know what my district is 137 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:09,040 going to be. 138 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Andy Jackson over at the John Locke Foundation 139 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:15,639 was talking about he was quoted in a piece of 140 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,480 Carolina Journal talking about the so called dummy mander, where 141 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,160 you think you're doing like you think you're drawing this 142 00:08:22,279 --> 00:08:26,319 line in order to give yourself the upper hand. And 143 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,480 then just what I try to tell people also on 144 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,120 all these redistrict things is that populations change, you know, districts, 145 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,279 the makeup of the district changes over time, and so 146 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,320 the lines, if you keep fighting and keep suing over 147 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,080 the lines, you keep giving them the chance to redraw them, 148 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,919 they stay more current. But sometimes you draw the lines 149 00:08:44,919 --> 00:08:47,200 and you think you're drawing it to your benefit, and 150 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,240 it turns out in one or two cycles, no, you've 151 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:53,200 drawn yourself out of power basically, which I kind of 152 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,879 think is what democrats did back in twenty ten. 153 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, probably so. And you know, I think this district 154 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,399 district won the Don Davis district. It desperately wants to 155 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,039 be a red district. Yeah, I was going back through 156 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,000 some of the data of previous elections. 157 00:09:10,039 --> 00:09:10,519 Speaker 4: I mean it. 158 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 3: Voted for Ted Budd in twenty twenty two. I think, 159 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,279 you know, with the right campaign, with the right candidate, 160 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:21,080 with the right money investment, this district wants to be 161 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,240 a Republican health seat as it is today. 162 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 163 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: Well, and the Speaker of the House I talked with 164 00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:27,799 him back in August about this and he said the 165 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,960 same thing. He said, it looks like District one they 166 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,639 have a pretty good shot to win anyway. 167 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,399 Speaker 2: So at that time he was like, we. 168 00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: Probably are happy with our maps, but he left the 169 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,759 door open to doing this exact thing, so we shall 170 00:09:40,799 --> 00:09:44,200 see real quick. You had a piece also over at 171 00:09:44,279 --> 00:09:48,159 long Leaf Politics which I was very interested to read, 172 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,759 and we can't go over all of it, but it's 173 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:52,399 a very lengthy piece. The headline is why County GOP 174 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,320 groups have so much drama, And this is one of 175 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,039 the things, like I tend not to wade into these 176 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,480 local part party fracases. 177 00:10:02,799 --> 00:10:04,159 Speaker 2: Frack Eye frank Eye. 178 00:10:04,159 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't know what you'd call that, but I tend 179 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,080 not to do it because I don't know the personalities. 180 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,840 I don't know there's personal history, people have personal slights 181 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,519 that you are not aware of as like a reporter 182 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,000 or a talk host or whatever. But you make the 183 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,120 point that this is sort of the nature of the 184 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:30,720 party operations, and the key here is that if you 185 00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:35,399 show up, you can actually make a difference in the 186 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,120 way a local party goes. 187 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:42,279 Speaker 3: No, yeah, that's exactly right. I try to generally stay 188 00:10:42,279 --> 00:10:45,240 out of these disputes as well, because they are very 189 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:47,679 deeply personal and you have to know a lot of 190 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,039 the backstory and the personalities involved to really get a 191 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,440 handle on it. But I was thinking about it. You know, 192 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,600 from time to time, some of these disputes will make 193 00:10:55,639 --> 00:10:58,879 the news, and that's what we had over in Cumberland County. 194 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:03,559 There was kind of a dueling assault allegations, so it 195 00:11:03,639 --> 00:11:05,919 made the news, and so I wanted to weigh in 196 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,480 at least a little bit. And you know what, on reflection, 197 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:13,919 why I think county partisan groups and I focus on 198 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,759 Republicans because that's my area of concern, But you see 199 00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:22,000 it with Democrats as well, is that these county party 200 00:11:22,039 --> 00:11:24,919 groups kind of fall right in the sweet spot for drama. 201 00:11:25,039 --> 00:11:29,159 They're local enough where everybody's in the same building talking 202 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,120 with each other, so they're personal and they're unavoidable, but 203 00:11:32,159 --> 00:11:36,960 they're also important enough for them to have real repercussions. 204 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,960 You know, these county parties do have actual power, they 205 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,799 do actually matter. You know, if a General Assembly member 206 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,600 leads in the middle of their term, it's a county 207 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,159 party that gets to decide who's going to fill that seat. 208 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,000 And it's the county party that's setting up door knocking campaigns, 209 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,159 that's setting up pole observers all that sort of thing. 210 00:11:56,279 --> 00:12:00,240 So the confluence of those two factors makes this kind 211 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,000 of unavoidable. 212 00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's this tension as well. 213 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:09,159 Speaker 1: You define it as pragmatism versus idealism, electability versus purity, 214 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,200 and I've seen this play out as well. You end up, 215 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,360 you know, they're not a real Republican, they're a rhino 216 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,600 because they're two establishment and they're like, well, no, we're 217 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,200 trying to win the general and well, no, you're not 218 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,200 true to the you know, the the ideology of republicanism, 219 00:12:25,879 --> 00:12:28,879 and and that tension is I think always going to 220 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,480 be there, and I would imagine it's probably more acute 221 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:40,000 in areas that are more heavily dominated by the one party. 222 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 3: You would think that. I actually think it's the opposite. 223 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,360 Really think in areas that are heavily read, you get 224 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:54,080 more the disputes are more on, you know, in group 225 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:56,440 versus out group, like this is my thing, the county 226 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,759 party is my thing. I don't want somebody else coming 227 00:12:58,759 --> 00:13:02,440 and taking over. Everybody kind of believes the same things. 228 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:07,559 In those situations, I think it's actually more in more 229 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,960 split counties where you have the more concern, you know, 230 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,240 the grassroots versus the establishment, the people that want to 231 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:17,919 win the elections and want to put forward electable candidates 232 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,679 versus people who really want purity. 233 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: No, that makes sense, Yeah, because if you got it 234 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:26,279 would empower it would empower the electability argument if you're 235 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,639 in a more divided county. 236 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,759 Speaker 2: That does make sense exactly. Andrew Dunn always appreciate your time, sir. 237 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,759 Speaker 1: Check him out long Leaf Politics, long leafpol dot com. 238 00:13:34,799 --> 00:13:37,360 He's got a piece up today as well at The 239 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,000 Charlotte Observer, where he is a contributing columnist. Appreciate your time, 240 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:42,159 as always, Andrew thanks. 241 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: Sir, Yes, sir, thank you, all right, take care. 242 00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to 243 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:51,639 a really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina. 244 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,919 Just a quick drive up the mountain and Cabins of 245 00:13:53,919 --> 00:13:58,320 Asheville is your connection. 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Obviously, Democrats 270 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,840 are rejecting this narrative because they don't jerrymander as we 271 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:27,279 all know. 272 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,159 Speaker 2: That's that's not at all what Democrats do. 273 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:38,679 Speaker 1: They didn't do it in California, or Maryland, or Illinois, 274 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:41,519 all of the states think or New York, and then 275 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,000 they got smacked down by the courts in New York 276 00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:51,759 of all places. So, yes, the Republicans are responding to 277 00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:56,919 the efforts by California and Illinois to try to jerrymander. 278 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: More. 279 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Maryland was never really a threat, although there was, you know, 280 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,879 a couple members of the Maryland delegation and the governor 281 00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:04,759 and they were like, well, we're gonna look at Jerry 282 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:07,240 manderin two and it's like, did you already drew every 283 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,720 single Republican out of a district? 284 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: There's none left in Maryland? 285 00:16:11,039 --> 00:16:16,919 Speaker 1: Like what, how could you get more jerrymandered Illinois particularly egregious, 286 00:16:16,919 --> 00:16:19,399 one of the worst gerrymandered states in the country. 287 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,799 Speaker 2: But JB. Pritzker has this. 288 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: Dream of being, you know, the second largest president ever 289 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:32,159 after Taft, and so he's he's been trying to push 290 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,240 this as well in his state. And what it comes 291 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,360 down to is control of the Congress. Now, Republicans are 292 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:42,600 making the argument that, yes, we are drawing new districts 293 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:46,000 in Texas, and we're doing so because, as I mentioned, 294 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:53,080 the counting of non citizens in the census and the 295 00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,879 fact that the twenty twenty census had problems with the counts, 296 00:16:57,399 --> 00:16:59,919 and I think, if memory serves, there were like four 297 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:08,160 teen states that the Census Bureau recognized as as error 298 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,359 ridden counts, and half of them were overcounts, half of 299 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:20,200 them were undercounts, roughly, and virtually every single one of 300 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:24,440 the over counted states were Democrat states, and virtually every 301 00:17:24,519 --> 00:17:29,680 single one of the undercounted states were Republican states, including Texas. 302 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:36,119 So yeah, the Republicans actually do have a legitimate grievance 303 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,119 when it comes to control of the House of Representatives. 304 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,640 Based on the census count, they actually have a legitimate grievance. 305 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,920 And so they are saying in Texas, well, we're going 306 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,880 to take steps to address this because we should have 307 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,079 more seats. The Republican Party should have more seats in 308 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,720 the House. Democrats do not want to touch this argument, 309 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,319 which is why they're arguing about democracy. 310 00:18:03,759 --> 00:18:05,559 Speaker 2: I mean, to be fair, they argue. 311 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:10,279 Speaker 1: That in like literally every issue, So they don't want 312 00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:12,319 to touch this argument. So they're just saying, you're trying 313 00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:15,440 to disenfranchise and Jerry Mander and all. This. The problem 314 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:16,960 that they are having, and I'm going to give you 315 00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:21,440 some examples, the problem they're having is that they're in 316 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,480 the process of doing the very same thing. So how 317 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,519 do you make an argument against this thing that you 318 00:18:28,519 --> 00:18:34,519 yourself are doing right now, aren't you then disenfranchising as well? 319 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,920 Of course you are. I know it's different when Democrats 320 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,720 do it. So when I was a kid, my grandpa 321 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,400 died with Alzheimer's and before he died, my mom and 322 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,400 my dad took care of him as he got worse. 323 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,359 Forty years ago, there were no treatments and not much 324 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,640 support for caregivers and family. But things are different today 325 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,240 because of the work of so many people, including the 326 00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:02,160 Alzheimer's Association of Western Carolina organization with awesome people with 327 00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:05,079 huge hearts. I've been a supporter for twenty five years. 328 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,440 This cause means a lot to me. I participate in 329 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,319 the annual Walk to end Alzheimer's and I'm leading a 330 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,519 Charlotte team again this year, and it's called once again 331 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,000 Pete's Pack. You can sign up and you can join 332 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,880 the team and walk with us. It's on October eighteenth, 333 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,960 that truest field. Sign up at alz dot org slash 334 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,359 walk and then you can search for my team name 335 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,920 Pete's Pack. There's also a link at thepetepod dot com. 336 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,599 There's also a link in the description of this podcast. Also, 337 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:36,359 I'll be am seeing the Gastonia Walk on October eleventh, 338 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,200 and so you can make a team and join that 339 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,559 one too, or make a donation and help me hit 340 00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:42,839 my goal of five thousand dollars. If you do, I 341 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,319 really appreciate it. There are a bunch of other walks 342 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,000 all over the Carolinas. You can go to alz dot 343 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,119 org slash walk for all the dates and locations. We're 344 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,960 closer than ever to stopping Alzheimer's. Can you help us 345 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,279 get there? Will you walk with me? For a different future, 346 00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:59,240 for families, for more time for treatments. 347 00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 2: This is why we walk. 348 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: So In Andrew Dunn's piece his op ed at the 349 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,920 Charlotte Observer, we talked a bit about it when we 350 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,240 had him on. In the first segment, the target appears 351 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:20,839 to be District one in North Carolina, and he writes 352 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,279 that the Republican majority is not as sturdy as it looks. Again, 353 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,519 there are fourteen congressional seats. These are allocated or apportioned 354 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,559 based on population counts. The population counts are based on 355 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,720 the census that's done every ten years, and basically you 356 00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:47,359 take the entire American population, which also includes the counting 357 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,240 of non citizens. 358 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: For some reason. Well, I know the argument there. 359 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: The argument is that, well, they live in these areas, 360 00:20:55,759 --> 00:20:59,519 and so there are just like the district counts, the 361 00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:06,319 population counts they matter for the disbursement of federal money, 362 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,359 and so if you're funding some sort I know they 363 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,559 say that the illegal aliens aren't getting any kind of 364 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,720 you know, public subsidies or any welfare or anything like that, 365 00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:19,319 although that's not true they are, but whatever like they 366 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,119 That's the argument is that, you know, if you've got 367 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,440 a certain population size, that should dictate the grants. I 368 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,839 disagree with this argument. I do not find that to 369 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,440 be persuasive. I find it to act as a magnet 370 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:36,680 and an encouragement for the very kinds of scoff lawish 371 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,480 behavior that we have seen from democrats in these states 372 00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:46,480 and cities where they say we are sanctuary jurisdictions, and 373 00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:50,119 so they use it to beef up their population counts. 374 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,759 So you take the entire population and then you divide 375 00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:55,920 it by four hundred and thirty five, because that's how 376 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,240 many seats are in the House, and there are arguments 377 00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:02,599 to expand the number of House seats in order to 378 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,240 make the district smaller. But regardless, you have the total 379 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,079 count of the population divided by four thirty five, and 380 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,759 what you end up with is the target population for. 381 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 2: Each district. 382 00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: And right now, that number, if memory serves, is somewhere 383 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,359 around eight hundred thousand people per congressional district. Now there 384 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,000 are some states that don't even have eight hundred thousand people. 385 00:22:27,799 --> 00:22:31,880 What of them, Well, you get one House member, you 386 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,160 have two US Senators and one member of the House, 387 00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:39,279 like that's it. You get one congressional or one representative 388 00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:43,599 in the House because technically Senate is also congress So anyway, 389 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,680 but in North Carolina, our population of now more than 390 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:53,319 ten million people, we get fourteen seats, each district being 391 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,160 the same size about eight hundred thousand people. 392 00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: Okay, so we have fourteen of these seats. 393 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: Republicans drew the maps to give Republicans ten of the 394 00:23:04,519 --> 00:23:09,200 fourteen seats currently four Democrat seats. One of those district 395 00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:13,000 one is seen as the most flippable seat, and as 396 00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:16,519 Andrew Dunn outlines here, a bear Democratic majority in the 397 00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:22,279 state House is reachable by flipping twelve Republican held districts. 398 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,319 This is the state legislature now, I should say, because 399 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,559 what he's concerned is the impact it's going to have 400 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,519 from a messaging standpoint on the legislative races. And he's 401 00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:38,400 saying that the Republican majorities are flippable twelve districts in 402 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,960 the House with about eighteen thousand voters switching sides combined. 403 00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:46,599 That's all it would take. The Senate flips with roughly 404 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,039 thirty one thousand votes across six seats. 405 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,079 Speaker 2: Okay. And then Andrew Jackson, not the President. 406 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,559 Speaker 1: Andy Jackson the director of the Civitas Center for Public 407 00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:01,400 Integrity at the John Locke Foundation. He says regarding the 408 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,519 first congressional district, currently occupied Democrat by Democrat Don Davis, 409 00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:09,839 the most he said, it would most likely make the 410 00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:14,200 first district more Republican at the expense of making District 411 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,960 three less Republican. 412 00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:19,039 Speaker 2: That's Greg Murphy's district. Andrew Dunn mentioned. 413 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:25,039 Speaker 1: That that would make both districts Republican leaning but competitive. Okay, 414 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,960 so yes, Republicans would have a better shot, but not 415 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,960 by much. This is what he calls dummymandering. When you 416 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:37,359 like you can draw a seat that's so safe, think 417 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,319 like Congressman Tim Moore seat. I think that's like a 418 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,640 plus forty four Republican seat. Okay, like that is not 419 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:50,759 that's not going Democrat anytime soon. But a Republican say 420 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,680 plus four plus five something like that. Well, now that's 421 00:24:55,759 --> 00:25:01,400 flippable depending on turnout, the general move of the country, 422 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,079 based on the candidates campaigns they run. 423 00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 2: That sort of thing. 424 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,519 Speaker 1: So third district becomes maybe more winnable. That would make 425 00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:14,960 both districts Republican leaning, but competitive. Since the president's party 426 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:18,359 tends to suffer in the midterm elections, Democrats would have 427 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,319 a shot. 428 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,279 Speaker 2: At winning both of those seats. 429 00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:24,799 Speaker 1: So you may be trying to get that first congressional 430 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,279 district from Don Davis and end up losing it to 431 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:35,599 Don Davis and also losing the third district. He also 432 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,160 points out that if you alter the district's racial composition, 433 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:45,720 that could invite litigation, which we know Democrats love to do. 434 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:51,400 They love suing North Carolina the Republican legislature over the maps. Right, 435 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,680 we've been embroiled in lawsuits for the better part of 436 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,359 fifteen years. Any change that significantly drops the number of 437 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,440 minorities in and in the first district and maybe even 438 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,079 the third, when you start redrawing these lines, you start 439 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:09,319 messing with the demographic apportionment. And when you do that, 440 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:17,279 now you open yourself up to litigation, especially if it 441 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,440 also negatively affects the district's compactness and it splits more counties. 442 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:25,839 That means it will be less likely to survive a 443 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,519 lawsuit because you got to draw the districts. 444 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: Compact and we'll know it when we see it. 445 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,279 Speaker 1: And you cannot split counties unless you absolutely have to. 446 00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:39,559 And by the way, this is because Democrats used to 447 00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:43,799 split counties just all over the place. They would gerrymander 448 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,200 counties in order to get gerrymandered districts as they were, 449 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,279 you know, clutching on to power over the congressional maps. 450 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,559 Speaker 2: So this is the risk. Is it worth it? 451 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 4: You know? 452 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: Stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, 453 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,400 to understand aperiences. Stories connect us to the people of 454 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,759 our past while transcending generations. They help us process the 455 00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:09,240 meaning of life. And our stories are told through images 456 00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:13,119 and videos. Preserve your stories with Creative Video. Started in 457 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,000 nineteen ninety seven and Minhill, North Carolina. It was the 458 00:27:16,079 --> 00:27:20,000 first company to provide this valuable service, converting images, photos 459 00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:24,240 and videos into high quality produced slide shows, videos and albums. 460 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,799 The trusted, talented and dedicated team at Creative Video will 461 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:29,880 go over all of the details with you to create 462 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,799 a perfect project. Satisfaction guaranteed. Drop them off in person 463 00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:35,599 or mail them. They'll be ready in a week or two. 464 00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:41,039 Memorial videos for your loved ones, Videos for rehearsal, dinners, weddings, graduations, Christmas, 465 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,319 family vacations, birthdays, or just your family stories all told 466 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,079 through images. That's what your photos and videos are. They 467 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:51,960 are your life told through the eyes of everyone around 468 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,240 you and all who came before you, and they will 469 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,599 tell others to come who you are. Visit creative video 470 00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:01,680 dot com. All right, So, as you might imagine, Democrats 471 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,680 not happy that the Republican legislative leaders say that they're 472 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,000 going to introduce some new maps. And by the way, 473 00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:13,839 the governor does not get a veto of the maps 474 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,640 due to a little power sharing agreement that was cobbled 475 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,119 together years ago when North Carolina finally gave the governor 476 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,400 the power to veto bills. That was in nineteen ninety seven. 477 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,759 It was the last state in America to give its 478 00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:35,200 governor a veto. But they didn't want the governor to 479 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,440 have a veto over everything. See, Republicans had taken control 480 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,519 of the House for the first time in a century 481 00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:47,119 and wanted a comprehensive veto, but Democrats in the House 482 00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,640 did not want to seed any of the power that 483 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,400 they had long enjoyed. The result a compromise that gave 484 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,880 North Carolina's governor a veto, but still left the state's 485 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,680 top leader with one of the weakest veto powers in America. 486 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,119 The governor is not able to strike down parts of 487 00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:08,880 a bill so a line item veto, and has no 488 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:14,599 say in redistricting bills, local bills, or constitutional amendments or 489 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,599 General Assembly resolutions. And for matters that the governor can reject, 490 00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:22,680 the legislature can override with a three to fifths vote 491 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,480 that is below the two thirds threshold of most states. 492 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:33,200 The architect of this brilliant idea, this deal was Roy Cooper. 493 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:38,319 Roy Cooper, state senator at the time. He is the 494 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:44,119 reason why the veto is what it is. Democrats. Now, 495 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:47,400 I did ask the Speaker of the House, Destin Hall, 496 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,759 whether they would redraw the maps when I had him 497 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:52,480 on the program back in August. Here's what you mentioned, 498 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,440 the census and the counts. I've been covering that too. 499 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:59,200 You're exactly right. Are you any appetite for doing a 500 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,480 Texas style mid decade redistrict? I know you guys love 501 00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:07,559 doing the redistricting. It's so much fun and well, you. 502 00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 4: Know, I used to share redistricting, but yeah, I was 503 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,599 the speaker, so I've got a lot of experience with that. 504 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:16,799 I think we've redrawn the maps about five times in 505 00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:20,680 my five terms there. You know, this last time around 506 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,400 when we redrew, I think we did the things that 507 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,720 we needed to do in that map. We're watching the 508 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,359 national picture right now, of course, seeing what Texas and 509 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,079 some other states are doing. We have a lot of 510 00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:36,440 experience with redistrict in North Carolina that other states may not, 511 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,920 So you know, I think that we have the maps 512 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,880 that we need. But I think the injustice out there 513 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,640 right now is states like California have more seats than 514 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,319 they really should be entitled to. And so you see 515 00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:51,119 Texas and Florida and some of the other states who 516 00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:54,480 may have drawn maps that we're not as republican as 517 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,920 they possibly could have been. And they're looking back now 518 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,160 to say, well, we're going to right the wrong of 519 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:03,119 illegal aliens being counted by redrawing our districts. And you know, 520 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,000 in North Carolina, will we redraw again. 521 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,079 Speaker 3: We'll see. 522 00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:11,599 Speaker 4: What I'll say is right now, there's a very competitive 523 00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:15,519 district in the first district in North Carolina. Don Davis, 524 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:19,880 Democrat there, who votes with the Democrats in Washington, very vulnerable. 525 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,079 I think we're going to beat him anyway under the 526 00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,799 current maps, and so we have I think the maps 527 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:30,359 we need in order to the formalth Carolina is the 528 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,480 vote on this time around. 529 00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so he did leave the door open. He said, 530 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,160 will we redraw again? We'll see, but he thinks we 531 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,039 have the maps we need now. This has prompted outrage 532 00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:45,599 from Democrats. Here's the chair of the North Carolina Democrat Party, 533 00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:50,119 Anderson Clayton, who is breezy. I mean that's her Twitter handle. 534 00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:53,759 Big Daddy. Trump calls in Phil Berger and Destin Hall 535 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,599 answer the call like the boot liquors that they are 536 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,480 North Carolina voters ain't letting y'all get away with. 537 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: This horsepoop or bullpoop. But she didn't say poop. 538 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: Then she had another tweet saying truly said to see 539 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,880 Destin lose the last independent brain cell he had and 540 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,960 cave to Washington d C minority leader Robert Reeves says 541 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,160 they are stealing a congressional district in order to shield 542 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,119 themselves from accountability at the ballot box, which the same 543 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,640 could be applied to California. See this is the problem. 544 00:32:29,079 --> 00:32:32,160 All of their arguments just swap out the name North 545 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,640 Carolina for California, it's the same thing. So if you're 546 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,000 going to accuse, as Josh Stein does, the Republicans of 547 00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:46,440 trying to quote take away your freedoms, then California is 548 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,640 doing the exact same thing. Shameless politicians abusing their power 549 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,279 to take away yours. That's what the governor said, same 550 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,559 thing would apply to California. So that's a problem just 551 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,599 from a messaging standpoint, and because we have such a 552 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:05,839 bipartisan and unbiased media, I'm sure that will totally break through. 553 00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:09,880 All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you 554 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,920 so much for listening. I could not do the show 555 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,480 without your support and the support of the businesses that 556 00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,640 advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support 557 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,319 them too and tell them you heard it here. You 558 00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:22,000 can also become a patron at my Patreon page or 559 00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:25,720 go to dpecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much 560 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:32,599 for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.