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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Babylon.

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<v Speaker 2>We are the podcast that is watching and breaking down

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<v Speaker 2>episodes of Babylon five. We just watched Come to the Inquisitor,

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<v Speaker 2>season two, episode twenty one.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>I am Jenny. I'm a massive fan of the show

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<v Speaker 2>and I've watched it through many times.

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<v Speaker 3>Unacceptable are you?

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<v Speaker 1>I am the Bermudian? Unacceptable. I don't have the magicals you.

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<v Speaker 3>Get do anything to be in hindsight? It is really

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<v Speaker 3>funny that I have. I have interjected in a third

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<v Speaker 3>of our episodes. Who are we in hindsight? Anyway?

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<v Speaker 4>True?

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, I'll let you interject that again right now.

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<v Speaker 3>Who are you?

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<v Speaker 5>I'm Jed accept screenwriter, showrunner. Watched the show a long

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<v Speaker 5>time ago, missed this episode. New was out there because

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<v Speaker 5>people talk about it, but I didn't never see it

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<v Speaker 5>in person until today.

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<v Speaker 3>I am Achelle. If I fall another, We'll take my place.

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<v Speaker 3>I've got I'm an actor her first set watcher bel five.

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<v Speaker 3>I love this show so much.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm Ali. I'm a screenwriter and an actor.

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<v Speaker 7>Not for fame where no one can see.

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<v Speaker 4>That's right.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and this is my first time watching Babylon five.

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<v Speaker 7>What a what an episode.

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<v Speaker 3>The Babylon podcast was our last best hope for a

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<v Speaker 3>deep dive, A self contained discussion for hosts, strong located

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<v Speaker 3>in the neutral territory of the Zokolow, a place of

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<v Speaker 3>commentary and analysis for two veterans and two newcomers, a

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<v Speaker 3>shining beacon of fandom, all alone in the streaming void.

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<v Speaker 3>It was the dawn of the streaming age, the year

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<v Speaker 3>the great theories came upon us all this is the

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<v Speaker 3>story of Babylon. The year is twenty twenty six. The

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<v Speaker 3>place wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>As I guess noted while the episode is happening, but

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<v Speaker 2>just for the podcast listeners. This was written by j

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<v Speaker 2>MS and directed by Mike Vehar, who was directed several

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<v Speaker 2>episodes previously.

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<v Speaker 6>So this man was into spirituality.

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<v Speaker 3>This man in psychology background, doesn't he does?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay?

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, that was great because I was like, this is

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<v Speaker 7>all psychology, yeah and spirit Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 7>Because I was like, Jesus was great.

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<v Speaker 3>This was so good. This was so freaking good. I

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned go ahead, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just at the very end you were like,

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<v Speaker 2>don't call it out. Don't call it because he does

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<v Speaker 2>make it very explicit at the end. It is Jack

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<v Speaker 2>the Ripper in the Jama Speaks part. It's like, he says,

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<v Speaker 2>flat out. Some people were really mad at me for

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<v Speaker 2>making it really explicit, and some people were like, why

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<v Speaker 2>didn't you tell us who that dude was?

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<v Speaker 6>That's what I said. I was like.

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<v Speaker 7>I was like, you have to thread the middle ground

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<v Speaker 7>every time, because because some people will get it right away, right,

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<v Speaker 7>and some people are going to still be like.

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<v Speaker 6>Who they'd never explained to Jack?

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<v Speaker 3>What is the East End?

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<v Speaker 6>Where is London?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? The east End? West End? Did you get to

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<v Speaker 1>that part in the notes?

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<v Speaker 2>Hold on, I gotta find it because I don't remember

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<v Speaker 2>which one it is one of them?

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<v Speaker 1>If people who love Jack the Ripper know which one

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<v Speaker 1>it is.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, when we say love Jack the Ripper, I mean

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<v Speaker 7>or the Laura yea fascinated by the.

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<v Speaker 6>Laura, Yes he calls.

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<v Speaker 5>He says, Okay, here's one clue for any would be

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<v Speaker 5>ripperologists out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he uses that term a lot. But I was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to pay attention to it and I couldn't figure

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<v Speaker 2>it out. He Bruce says one, and then the actual

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<v Speaker 2>audio says another because they fixed it.

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<v Speaker 5>In Oh, that's really funny, right right, right, right.

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<v Speaker 1>They sucked it up, but the first time it aired

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<v Speaker 1>they hadn't fixed it.

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<v Speaker 3>So they said west end. Because said, yeah, so here's what.

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<v Speaker 4>So here's what.

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<v Speaker 5>Here's the JMS said, yes, I know, it's the east end,

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<v Speaker 5>not the west end. I looked write at my notes

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<v Speaker 5>when I was writing the script and they said east

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<v Speaker 5>and I typed west and nobody noticed until it went out.

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<v Speaker 5>I could have replaced it with a looped line prior

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<v Speaker 5>to the first airing here, as this was found during

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<v Speaker 5>the UK airings, but looping never improves, only diminishes of performance.

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<v Speaker 5>And he's on camera and the words wouldn't match his mouth.

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<v Speaker 5>So I decided to let it go out this way

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<v Speaker 5>once for performance, and we'll correct this aspect with a

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<v Speaker 5>loop in later airings, even though that will somewhat lessen

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<v Speaker 5>the performance aspect.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and he says it, And there's another part where

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<v Speaker 2>he talks about it. So he says basically all that's so,

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<v Speaker 2>I won't repeat it, But he says, so I can

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<v Speaker 2>hent myself with the notion that it's west of Babylon five.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, if you excuse me, I'm going to go shoot myself.

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<v Speaker 3>That's pretty fun, you know. He made one mistake.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh god, it's right.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. Writing is hard, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>triple check stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>And still I mentioned in the episode unless there's.

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<v Speaker 1>Something else, No, No, that's it.

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<v Speaker 3>He starts in with who are you? Who are you?

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<v Speaker 3>Who are you? And after the third time, I said

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<v Speaker 3>something to the effect of this is giving what do

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<v Speaker 3>you want? Vibes?

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<v Speaker 1>What you want?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and Jenny, you you grinned really hard when I

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<v Speaker 3>said that. I think you did, or maybe you maybe

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<v Speaker 3>you didn't, and maybe your avatar glitched out, But I

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<v Speaker 3>I bring that up because it they're both very existential questions.

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<v Speaker 3>They're both very you know, if we're looking at psychology,

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<v Speaker 3>which we are now, there are questions that kind of

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<v Speaker 3>hit close to the court are we But it's funny because.

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<v Speaker 2>Existential questions offered by human ambassadors of weird.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, but they're opposite, kind of very opposite.

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<v Speaker 2>They're directed by Morgan comes in and he's like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>how you doing.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm happy to see you. What do you want? And

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<v Speaker 1>and Sebastian comes in He's like you, I hate Jack.

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<v Speaker 3>But they're also questions because what do you want is like,

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<v Speaker 3>what do you want? Is this? What is the void?

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<v Speaker 3>That you have within you and what are you trying

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<v Speaker 3>to fill it with? And who are you?

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<v Speaker 6>Is?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, now look at the void. Yeah, acknowledge that you

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<v Speaker 3>are the void and you can't fill the void.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never thought of this as the ego death episode.

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<v Speaker 2>And like the second you said it, I was like, oh, fuck, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>But what do you want? Is like, tell me what

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<v Speaker 2>your ego wants? Like it's basically an ego question. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is the ego death question.

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<v Speaker 3>Consume, consume, consume? How do you how are you trying

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<v Speaker 3>to fill the emptiness? Whatever the emptiness is? What what

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<v Speaker 3>do you think will make the pain go away? Whatever

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<v Speaker 3>the pain is the pain of my heart Totley who

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<v Speaker 3>Ali has been telling me to read forever and ever

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<v Speaker 3>and ever, and I finally started reading it, talks about it,

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<v Speaker 3>started reading that's so good, it's so good. Who could

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<v Speaker 3>have known this? Who could have known this? And then

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<v Speaker 3>I was talking to my therapist about it today, as

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<v Speaker 3>I always mentioned my therapist on this podcast, because I

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<v Speaker 3>have therapy.

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<v Speaker 6>One men seeing therapist.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was talking about it and it was it's funny.

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<v Speaker 3>He was like, yeah, he actually developed his theories a

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<v Speaker 3>lot more after he wrote the book because the book

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<v Speaker 3>talks about don't think at all, but you're reading a

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<v Speaker 3>book and the book is nothing but thoughts. And that's

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<v Speaker 3>a good point.

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<v Speaker 6>Well he does point that out, he.

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<v Speaker 3>Does, and whatever, it's it's a great book. But but

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<v Speaker 3>I want, oh, I bring this up because he talks

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<v Speaker 3>about how when you start trying to be be present

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<v Speaker 3>yourself and not subsume yourself in thought, your mind freaks

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<v Speaker 3>out and rebels against it, because that's that's all it is.

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<v Speaker 3>The views it as an existential Yeah. Yeah, your ego

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<v Speaker 3>views that as an existential threat. And then that's kind

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<v Speaker 3>of where a lot of that need to do stuff

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<v Speaker 3>and to fill stuff and to think and to want

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<v Speaker 3>comes from is because if you are simply present and

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<v Speaker 3>be that part of your psychologistic to a Cartola is

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<v Speaker 3>like I'm gonna die. And that's that's so. I just

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<v Speaker 3>I like to love this show so much because he's like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>what have we had the Shadows who are completely aligned

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<v Speaker 3>with that, like give, give, give, take, take, take give, give, give, take,

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<v Speaker 3>take take, feel the void, fill the void, and then

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<v Speaker 3>the Vorlon and by extension, Jack the fucking Ripper, who

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<v Speaker 3>is not I have learned his lesson who is the

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<v Speaker 3>opposite of that pretty much, which is just okay, now,

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<v Speaker 3>be well.

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<v Speaker 5>Because if someone came and said to him eight hundred

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<v Speaker 5>years ago, five hundred years ago, I mean not.

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<v Speaker 4>From us from that show, yeah, from the show.

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<v Speaker 5>If they said, you know fours, I guess who are

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<v Speaker 5>you four hundre years ago, he would say, I'm Jack

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<v Speaker 5>the Ripper.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and chosen by God to give them whatever in

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<v Speaker 2>the show, Like that's what he said he was doing.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, and then here he says that's basically not

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<v Speaker 5>who he is.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, you know, he's like, I'm not even Sebastian.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's it's really ah, it's really interesting. Hello, Okay,

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<v Speaker 6>except it's really interesting.

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<v Speaker 7>I like, yeah, it's this whole idea of like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 7>we spend all of this time trying to like define ourselves.

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<v Speaker 7>We define ourselves by our past and our future and

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<v Speaker 7>like not really by our present. We like don't actually

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<v Speaker 7>live our lives being focused on like where we are

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<v Speaker 7>in this moment in time. And then like so we

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<v Speaker 7>actually like miss most of our lives because we're either

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<v Speaker 7>using stories from the past or like having anxieties about

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<v Speaker 7>the future or thinking that the future is going to

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<v Speaker 7>bring us some level of happiness or fulfillment that we

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<v Speaker 7>are working toward, as opposed to actually like experiencing the

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<v Speaker 7>totality of our lives and really like it's once we

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<v Speaker 7>are no body and no thing that we stop because

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<v Speaker 7>the past and the future don't exist technically, I mean,

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<v Speaker 7>like they're not happening now, and like the past is

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<v Speaker 7>not in actually informing the present in any particular way.

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<v Speaker 7>It's like the stories and pain bodies that you introduce

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<v Speaker 7>to it. So it's like and the future will not

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<v Speaker 7>bring you happiness, the happiness, like the full total peace

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<v Speaker 7>and fulfillment that you think it's going to, because there

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<v Speaker 7>will always be problems, Like there will always be things

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<v Speaker 7>or like future things to think about or worry about.

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<v Speaker 7>So it's like the only way that you will ever

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<v Speaker 7>actually know peace is if you experience it now.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and you learn how to experience it.

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<v Speaker 7>Is it now in every moment, even when you are suffering,

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<v Speaker 7>because if you are just using the past future to

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<v Speaker 7>inform what's happening, you're only increasing your own suffering.

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<v Speaker 6>And like that's insane and isn't.

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<v Speaker 5>That in part the definition of enlightenment I think? So

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<v Speaker 5>you know, is the like the recognition of like just

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<v Speaker 5>just being I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna.

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<v Speaker 6>Sell you a budget. It's okay to be wrong.

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<v Speaker 7>That's okay, Lama, and I just worried about about being

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<v Speaker 7>after having read one chapter of a book, you know

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<v Speaker 7>how much I just got it gets so much comment

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<v Speaker 7>that book everyone you don't understand. And the next what

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<v Speaker 7>you read is you read on the Soul. That's the

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<v Speaker 7>next one. Okay, it's so good. No, it's so good.

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<v Speaker 3>And my therapist told me to read. I got to read.

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<v Speaker 6>I learned how like.

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<v Speaker 5>I've also been sick for a week and happen I'm

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<v Speaker 5>totally still in fever dream states.

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<v Speaker 4>So good.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it's it's ant that like nothing matters, so everything matters,

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<v Speaker 7>and that like you aren't you're you're nobody and no thing.

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<v Speaker 7>You are like the universe experiencing life, right, Like you're

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<v Speaker 7>a piece of the universe experiencing life.

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<v Speaker 6>So it's like you actually.

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<v Speaker 7>It's like you're your feel you kind of like are

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<v Speaker 7>observing your own life as if you're in a movie.

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<v Speaker 6>You kind of are like.

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<v Speaker 7>You, you understand this true self exists behind all of that,

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<v Speaker 7>behind the ego, behind the mind, it's like a third

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<v Speaker 7>party observer that you kind of like tap into and

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<v Speaker 7>kind of observe yourself experiencing your own life.

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<v Speaker 3>But you're also extremely connected to it at the same time.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it's not like a compartmentalization thing or like a

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<v Speaker 7>dissociation thing.

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<v Speaker 6>It's like.

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<v Speaker 3>You're not there's nothing between you and experiencing your life. Yes, yes, yes, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>you're like you're not. You're not constantly thinking about everything

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<v Speaker 3>like this.

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<v Speaker 6>This is just like that time.

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<v Speaker 3>I should say this, I should really probably make sure

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<v Speaker 3>and I got to remember to cross my legs and

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<v Speaker 3>I gotta tune my body. You're not doing any of that.

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<v Speaker 3>You're not worried about what people think about you. You're

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<v Speaker 3>not worried about anything. You're just kind of there. Do

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<v Speaker 3>you kind of just exist because you're going to be

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<v Speaker 3>there anyway. Really lovely, it's good.

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<v Speaker 7>And it's really lovely, and like I'm where it's a

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<v Speaker 7>frequency I can I find and then lose and then

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<v Speaker 7>find in the lose forever. But like it's it's great

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<v Speaker 7>when I have it.

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<v Speaker 6>It's like.

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<v Speaker 7>It's so nice. It's so nice. It's the best because

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<v Speaker 7>you just you realize nothing matters.

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<v Speaker 3>You're just like oh like, but in a good way again,

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<v Speaker 3>like with with with with Sebastian. You can read a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of the stuff he says as dismissive and negative

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<v Speaker 3>and nihilistic and pessimism, like who are you? You know?

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<v Speaker 3>Who do you? Why do you think you matter? You

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<v Speaker 3>just dada dada, You're a nail? All this stuff. You

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<v Speaker 3>can read it as defeatist.

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<v Speaker 6>But all the nails in the house matter.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it's not like be content with being a nail.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not the thing necessarily is like give up your dreams.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not the point. But the point is hard to

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<v Speaker 3>hard to encapsulate in less than an hour of screen time,

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<v Speaker 3>I guess. But the point is whatever you're doing is important.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>And the idea that, like what your thought was the

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<v Speaker 5>pinnacle of importance or the thing the role that people

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<v Speaker 5>would point to and say that was the lynchpin that

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<v Speaker 5>was the important thing could be very different than what

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<v Speaker 5>you're expecting, right, And by being here and being committed

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<v Speaker 5>and being present, you are adding to it in the

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<v Speaker 5>way that you need to be adding to it.

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<v Speaker 7>It's like, if you think about it, right, like most people,

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<v Speaker 7>most people, and this is not to make people sad,

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00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:52.240
<v Speaker 7>but most people after a few generations, Like I don't

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<v Speaker 7>know my great grandparents' name. I do, I know, I

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00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:56.960
<v Speaker 7>know their names, but I don't know their parents' names

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<v Speaker 7>off the top of my head. Right, But I am

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<v Speaker 7>the totality of all of their choices, right like each

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<v Speaker 7>of us is the the conglomeration of all of the

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<v Speaker 7>choices of every single person in our lineage that came

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<v Speaker 7>before us. Right, So it's like every person's choices do matter,

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<v Speaker 7>because it's like everyone matters.

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<v Speaker 3>Every Yeah, everything that came before informs what is happening now,

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<v Speaker 3>and everything that's happening now informs what's happening. Like we

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00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:25.879
<v Speaker 3>talked about this on Wheel Takes four Youth three years ago,

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00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.039
<v Speaker 3>two three years ago, where we were talking about like

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00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:29.960
<v Speaker 3>you're not gonna don't be remembered, blah blah blah, and

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00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.120
<v Speaker 3>I started ranting about how much I hate business school

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00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:36.480
<v Speaker 3>and because they, you know, and I pointed over there,

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<v Speaker 3>I said, I don't know who came there was a

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<v Speaker 3>coffee machine over there. I said, I don't know who

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<v Speaker 3>invented coffee filters. I use them every day. They matter

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00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.200
<v Speaker 3>to me. I don't know who designed this particular coffee filter.

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<v Speaker 3>They may or may not be alive anymore. I use

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<v Speaker 3>it every day. It matters to me, you know, like

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00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:57.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't know who built my house. It's important to me, Like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>there are jokes that people probably came up with three

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<v Speaker 3>hundred years ago that have filtered into today's parlance and

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00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.720
<v Speaker 3>everybody uses them as people who invented words and you

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00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:08.840
<v Speaker 3>never knew about it. And that's I started. Boss.

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<v Speaker 5>Sorry, very important, I said, I started, Boss started. That's

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<v Speaker 5>the Boss before anybody anyway.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe, I believe everything matters.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's cool.

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00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry we've been we got excited about that. Yeah,

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00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:29.919
<v Speaker 3>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>To bring it back to like the Lane of Babylon five,

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00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.200
<v Speaker 2>we've got these two questions, Uh, what do you want?

325
00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:37.279
<v Speaker 1>And who are you?

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00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.840
<v Speaker 2>And I'm just gonna point somebody out that like was

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<v Speaker 2>maybe giddy the first time we went through this.

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00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Because it's like, oh, yeah, cool.

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00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you remember when Jeff was in

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<v Speaker 2>the Triangle place in the Mimbari ship getting tortured.

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00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Ask who are you?

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00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:54.360
<v Speaker 1>What? He was yelling at them because he was like,

333
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:55.440
<v Speaker 1>who are you?

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00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:56.120
<v Speaker 4>What do you want?

335
00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:58.399
<v Speaker 2>Because he didn't know why he was being tortured and

336
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.120
<v Speaker 2>it was literally echoing in the room, like you guys

337
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.960
<v Speaker 2>started dancing to it because it was like, who are you?

338
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.079
<v Speaker 1>What do you want? Who are you?

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00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:05.559
<v Speaker 2>What do you want?

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00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:06.480
<v Speaker 1>This was going over.

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00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:08.559
<v Speaker 3>Should watched that again? See what else? He asked?

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00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:21.960
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, cool, that's where am I?

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00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know?

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00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:23.480
<v Speaker 4>Who are you?

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00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:28.680
<v Speaker 6>What do you want? Yeah? I think? I mean how

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00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.079
<v Speaker 6>those are the two kinds of questions.

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00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Again in the notes, one of the things that jamis

348
00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:37.359
<v Speaker 2>people must have asked about it multiple times because he

349
00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:39.359
<v Speaker 2>answers it several times, So I'm going to get lost

350
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:41.799
<v Speaker 2>and trying to find it. But he talks about how

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00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.599
<v Speaker 2>who are you is an important question to answer before

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00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:47.079
<v Speaker 2>you answer the question.

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00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:47.440
<v Speaker 3>What do you want?

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00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:49.839
<v Speaker 2>Because if you answer what do you want? First, it's

355
00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.279
<v Speaker 2>going to be Okay, what the fuck?

356
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:52.599
<v Speaker 4>HOLI?

357
00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:57.319
<v Speaker 3>How you doing?

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<v Speaker 6>That was just really struck me as very true in

359
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.759
<v Speaker 6>that moment. I'm very sorry I was in a voluntary

360
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:06.480
<v Speaker 6>that was so true. That was insane? How true that

361
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.759
<v Speaker 6>hit for me? No, not at all.

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00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:13.920
<v Speaker 7>Definitely have not been experiencing a profound spiritual awakening this

363
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.279
<v Speaker 7>entire year. Definitely have not had my entire nervous system

364
00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:19.440
<v Speaker 7>burned to the ground and re animate.

365
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:22.240
<v Speaker 6>It's great, it was deeply painful.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyways, you know he's right about that. You do want

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<v Speaker 3>to know who you are before you ask what.

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00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:29.759
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, because if you are not fully integrated and fully

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<v Speaker 7>aware of yourself, you have the power to project all

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00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.799
<v Speaker 7>kinds of bullshit onto other people that you don't mean

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00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.839
<v Speaker 7>to make. You can make your and other people's lives

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00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.759
<v Speaker 7>so much worse. Like, much of the problems that exist

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<v Speaker 7>today are from people who don't under fully encapsulate self

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<v Speaker 7>awareness and awareness of others.

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00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:52.519
<v Speaker 3>Just shadow projecting all over the fla walking.

376
00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.799
<v Speaker 7>Battle projecting all over the fucking place, all over everyone.

377
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.200
<v Speaker 7>It's very rude to everyone else who's just trying to live.

378
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.000
<v Speaker 7>We do not ask to be covered in their shadow

379
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.720
<v Speaker 7>projection bullshit, Like, how many times have you received this

380
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:08.079
<v Speaker 7>energy from someone where you're like, I didn't. That is

381
00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.599
<v Speaker 7>not about me, and I don't know where that's coming from.

382
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.799
<v Speaker 7>But that is not about me. That is not accurate.

383
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:16.440
<v Speaker 7>That is not an accurate story. And it's like, yeah,

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00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.559
<v Speaker 7>that's because that person has a part of themselves that

385
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.200
<v Speaker 7>they are telling stories about that you have just randomly

386
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:28.400
<v Speaker 7>become a player in like, and that's why bullshit happens.

387
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.200
<v Speaker 3>Every negative YouTube comment. Just shit.

388
00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:35.119
<v Speaker 7>If you have left negative YouTube comment that shadow projection,

389
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:35.839
<v Speaker 7>fix yourself.

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00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, there's a show that I really like called A

391
00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Crazy Ex Girlfriend, and there's just this one random song.

392
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember what season, but it's just this girl singing.

393
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Everybody's like projecting stuff onto her and she sings a song.

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00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:50.519
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, this isn't about me. It's not like

395
00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.680
<v Speaker 2>a Bastinva song. It's so great it's not.

396
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.680
<v Speaker 7>And the minute that you realize that, the more at

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00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:01.000
<v Speaker 7>piece you feel. I mean, unless if you actually did

398
00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:04.400
<v Speaker 7>fuck up some which as possible, which is which you

399
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.599
<v Speaker 7>also have to do your own inner work to find

400
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.400
<v Speaker 7>out how you might be unintentionally fucking with other people.

401
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.039
<v Speaker 7>That's the thing is, it's not just about like going, oh, well,

402
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:14.200
<v Speaker 7>most stuff's not about me.

403
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.039
<v Speaker 6>It's like it also very much could be.

404
00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:20.839
<v Speaker 7>You must investigate yourself and then understand how like that

405
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.720
<v Speaker 7>also might be other people rejecting onto you.

406
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.799
<v Speaker 6>It can be both, and it can be both at

407
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:25.519
<v Speaker 6>the same time.

408
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.079
<v Speaker 7>That's the other thing that you have to understand is

409
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:30.920
<v Speaker 7>like we're all bumping into each other's wounds all the

410
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.599
<v Speaker 7>time by accident. If you are unaware of yourself, unaware

411
00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:37.519
<v Speaker 7>of the world, unaware of other people suffering, you can

412
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:41.079
<v Speaker 7>cause suffering in your wake all over the fucking place.

413
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.079
<v Speaker 3>Which is why Cash was like, we should make sure

414
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.839
<v Speaker 3>that this lady's on the level and she's not going

415
00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.160
<v Speaker 3>in there with all of her ego. And I don't

416
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.319
<v Speaker 3>mean ego in a negative sense. I mean literally identity

417
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.160
<v Speaker 3>and self importance and gonna just go in there and

418
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.359
<v Speaker 3>blast her shit all over the map. She's gotta go

419
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:01.319
<v Speaker 3>in there and be like it and about me. That

420
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.279
<v Speaker 3>was the point from the beginning.

421
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.200
<v Speaker 6>It didn't her it is, which I didn't.

422
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Where he came from, by the way, because in season

423
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.680
<v Speaker 3>one she was like, I'm going to do this transformation

424
00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:14.799
<v Speaker 3>and I'm going to put myself through these things and

425
00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm there, I'm going to stay on Babylon five and me, me, me,

426
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:20.519
<v Speaker 3>me me, And that's fine. She was right, because but

427
00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:22.839
<v Speaker 3>she was doing these things from a self sacrificing perspective.

428
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.359
<v Speaker 3>But I also understand why he would be kind of like, hmmm,

429
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:27.359
<v Speaker 3>do you want to be in the history books? Is

430
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:28.960
<v Speaker 3>that why we're doing this? Is that?

431
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.559
<v Speaker 7>And it's like, don't we all a little bit want

432
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.759
<v Speaker 7>to be important? Of course, of course we want to

433
00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:37.880
<v Speaker 7>be important. Of course we want to matter to people.

434
00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.559
<v Speaker 7>Of course. Of course, of course I have thought extensively.

435
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.519
<v Speaker 7>I've spent hours of my life wondering if I matter

436
00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:46.039
<v Speaker 7>to people.

437
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.039
<v Speaker 6>I've spent so much.

438
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.160
<v Speaker 7>Time wanting to matter, wondering if I matter to certain people,

439
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:55.799
<v Speaker 7>getting all caught up in my bullshit about whether or

440
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.960
<v Speaker 7>not somebody gives a shit about me, Like, and you

441
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:04.200
<v Speaker 7>know what, it wasn't particular, it's not particularly productive, it's

442
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:05.640
<v Speaker 7>not particularly helpful.

443
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.400
<v Speaker 6>It's like that is something I have zero control.

444
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:14.759
<v Speaker 7>Over, zero, Like yeah, and it's and it's not the

445
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.039
<v Speaker 7>reason to do anything, Like you don't.

446
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:18.880
<v Speaker 6>This is the thing about relationships.

447
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:21.440
<v Speaker 7>You don't do something for someone in the hopes that

448
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:24.400
<v Speaker 7>then you will matter to them. That's like, oh weird,

449
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.519
<v Speaker 7>let's say, but you do at the same time, like

450
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.680
<v Speaker 7>like that's a natural impulse to like want to connect

451
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:32.799
<v Speaker 7>with someone, want them to like you, so you like

452
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.119
<v Speaker 7>do a bunch of self sacrificing bullshit.

453
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.960
<v Speaker 6>What are you doing? Why are you looking at? Okay?

454
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.160
<v Speaker 6>Is this is this hitting something for you?

455
00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.160
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm thinking about your car.

456
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:48.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, I did want to talk about your car anyway, I.

457
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:53.720
<v Speaker 6>Was, I was, I have zero ego about this, but just.

458
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.240
<v Speaker 5>But I do want to say one more thing about

459
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.720
<v Speaker 5>de Lenne, because I get I get what you're saying

460
00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:01.359
<v Speaker 5>about I'm glad, like I'm glad Cosh was checking in

461
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:05.079
<v Speaker 5>and making sure this isn't just about glory in your

462
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:11.039
<v Speaker 5>own way. And I suppose on one level, yeah, I

463
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 5>mean like I get that. But Delenne has consistently not

464
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.519
<v Speaker 5>just spoken of, but demonstrated she's from the religious cast

465
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.599
<v Speaker 5>whose entire identity is about service to others and.

466
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:29.240
<v Speaker 4>About the greater.

467
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:35.359
<v Speaker 5>Good, and went through this transformation and has been getting

468
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:41.000
<v Speaker 5>herself not well received for such lost you know, is

469
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:43.079
<v Speaker 5>considered an outcast among our own people, doesn't fit in

470
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:43.799
<v Speaker 5>with the other people.

471
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.039
<v Speaker 4>Like so, I'm just.

472
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:48.400
<v Speaker 5>When you were like, you know, like we want to

473
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:49.839
<v Speaker 5>make sure you don't have any ego, and I'm like,

474
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:51.839
<v Speaker 5>what the fuck ego? Do you have cash that you

475
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.400
<v Speaker 5>can't see that everything Delenne has done to this point

476
00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:57.160
<v Speaker 5>but has been selfless.

477
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:02.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, but yes, but it's been selfless and not by

478
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.359
<v Speaker 3>any fault of her own in a public sphere, very

479
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:06.359
<v Speaker 3>publicly in.

480
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:10.599
<v Speaker 5>A public sphere, and and doing the thing that she

481
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:14.240
<v Speaker 5>we know she values highest and so like that's the

482
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:14.559
<v Speaker 5>thing too.

483
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.519
<v Speaker 3>It's true clearly you know she was being selfless and

484
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.480
<v Speaker 3>I had no real concern that she wasn't. But I

485
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.720
<v Speaker 3>also you know, like there are people who are like

486
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:29.119
<v Speaker 3>publicly very very giving and very very and then they

487
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.279
<v Speaker 3>go home and they go to their family and they're

488
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:33.200
<v Speaker 3>like I saved so and so today.

489
00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.000
<v Speaker 6>You know, and like, are you talking about anybody in particular?

490
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:41.359
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm not getting into that. But it's not me.

491
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:42.599
<v Speaker 3>It's absolutely not.

492
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 6>I know it is.

493
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.880
<v Speaker 3>I can guarantee you they're not watching. Oh we know

494
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:51.319
<v Speaker 3>they're not. And so uh, people, there are people who

495
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.599
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't diminish the good that they do, no, still

496
00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.799
<v Speaker 3>doing good, but just you know, there's there's the question,

497
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:01.160
<v Speaker 3>doesn't make them bad people?

498
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's people looking for aljaml.

499
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.200
<v Speaker 7>It's from It's that their ego, Yes, it's yeah, it's

500
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.119
<v Speaker 7>that their ego is tied up in for being perceived

501
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:14.240
<v Speaker 7>as good. And like that's not that doesn't the gate

502
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.200
<v Speaker 7>the good, but it is still ego. Like ego doesn't

503
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:19.319
<v Speaker 7>have to look bad.

504
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:20.519
<v Speaker 6>That's the thing.

505
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:24.160
<v Speaker 7>It's not necessarily an inherently bad thing. It's just that

506
00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 7>if you are not aware of your ego, right, if

507
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.319
<v Speaker 7>you are not bringing your awareness. The death comes from

508
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.880
<v Speaker 7>awareness of the ego and like what your bullshit is,

509
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.279
<v Speaker 7>and it's like and then you go like, oh, that's

510
00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.920
<v Speaker 7>not really who I am, and you can but it

511
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.480
<v Speaker 7>also is, so you can like bring awareness to it

512
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.519
<v Speaker 7>and allow it to kind of fall away and then

513
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:49.319
<v Speaker 7>like that feels awful.

514
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.400
<v Speaker 3>It feels awful with the Jakar. Before I forget the

515
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:55.359
<v Speaker 3>your car, the jak is telling to me that this

516
00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.480
<v Speaker 3>episode was juxtaposed against an episode where Jakar insisted that

517
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:01.559
<v Speaker 3>he remained in control of the resistance. Yeah, because I

518
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.960
<v Speaker 3>also think he is right. He is the best person

519
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 3>for that.

520
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that and the Bruce wants him in that PO.

521
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:08.279
<v Speaker 3>Wants him there too.

522
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't want a new person.

523
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I am just realized I'm cognizant of the time and

524
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:14.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little because I know, Gus, you might.

525
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.720
<v Speaker 3>I did just check out what they landed. My dad

526
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:20.799
<v Speaker 3>just texted me we're on the ground.

527
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:22.240
<v Speaker 1>I saw that.

528
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.680
<v Speaker 2>That was actually why I thought, because I saw you

529
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 2>text on your phone. So before you go, I do

530
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:26.799
<v Speaker 2>want to discuss your theories.

531
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes, we can do that. This was such a good,

532
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.359
<v Speaker 3>goddamn episode. I could talk about this literally all night.

533
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.279
<v Speaker 1>I know, I want to get to these before you go,

534
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:36.920
<v Speaker 1>So you had to.

535
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 2>You had two theories that you had posted in our chat.

536
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.640
<v Speaker 1>One of them was Delenne secret telepath.

537
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was before we learned that Evanava was a

538
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:48.480
<v Speaker 3>secret telepath. I don't know how many secret telepaths we're

539
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.599
<v Speaker 3>going to have. But when Tully I looked at Mordan,

540
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.720
<v Speaker 3>I almost said, when Tully looked at Mordan, everything got

541
00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:01.480
<v Speaker 3>real dark in the face zone. And Elen looked at Mordon,

542
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:05.960
<v Speaker 3>everything got real dark in the face zone. Delenn is

543
00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.920
<v Speaker 3>also repeatedly spoken highly about how Minbari treat their telepaths,

544
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:13.359
<v Speaker 3>and she is also quite well appreciated and venerated among

545
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:18.680
<v Speaker 3>the Minbari. Possible she might have some telepathic ability. However,

546
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.079
<v Speaker 3>we have never heard any indication from Csycor or from

547
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.440
<v Speaker 3>Talia or from I guess Ivanav even that she would

548
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 3>have that. So I haven't no other evidence other than

549
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:28.039
<v Speaker 3>what was going on with Morden.

550
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and then your other theory.

551
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.119
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember Cauto is an angel?

552
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Yell?

553
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.759
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Well, because it's such a weird, why do you

554
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.759
<v Speaker 3>never take off your suit? Every who would recognize you everyone,

555
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:47.119
<v Speaker 3>And so I said, okay, well, maybe Vorlon's are like

556
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:50.759
<v Speaker 3>the prototypical stereotypical image of angels with all.

557
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:51.480
<v Speaker 6>The eyes and stuff.

558
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:56.880
<v Speaker 3>The wings accurate, one of the wings, because they're they're

559
00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.480
<v Speaker 3>the shoulder pads look like wings from behind, they do.

560
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:01.440
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, well, maybe a lot of different

561
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:05.839
<v Speaker 3>cultures have similar imagery surrounding celestial beings or divine beings

562
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:06.920
<v Speaker 3>and it's angels.

563
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.079
<v Speaker 6>Because they said they've been everywhere.

564
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, because that's what Worlons look like. Is the Vorlons

565
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:12.440
<v Speaker 3>look like prototypical angels.

566
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:14.680
<v Speaker 2>And they said that this episode. You're right, they said

567
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:15.720
<v Speaker 2>that this episode.

568
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:17.279
<v Speaker 3>And so the reason why he can't take off his

569
00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 3>suit is because he'd just be a big fucking winged

570
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.079
<v Speaker 3>dude walking around and everybody like, that's an angel, and

571
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 3>everybody would agree that was an angel.

572
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.720
<v Speaker 6>Well, also, also, did you say anything else?

573
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.440
<v Speaker 7>If I remember correctly, Like, isn't it one of those

574
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.799
<v Speaker 7>things where well, there's certain cultures where like the angels,

575
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:36.079
<v Speaker 7>if you see them, it's like to like it's too divine, And.

576
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:37.799
<v Speaker 3>I mean that's literally.

577
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:41.759
<v Speaker 1>Angel shows up. The very first thing is they say is.

578
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:47.480
<v Speaker 7>Like settled out too much.

579
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, quaking quaking.

580
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:54.160
<v Speaker 6>Also, oh one more thing, Okay, oh this is like

581
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:58.000
<v Speaker 6>this is just like a quake thing. It's like.

582
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 7>Totally about how like when like somebody is bothering you

583
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:04.759
<v Speaker 7>or somebody like there's it's just conflict or whatever.

584
00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:08.240
<v Speaker 6>You look at that person because he's like he's.

585
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:09.759
<v Speaker 3>Like, this sounds grim, but it's not.

586
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:13.160
<v Speaker 7>He's like simultaneously, he's like, you recognize the divinity in

587
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:15.240
<v Speaker 7>each person. Like he's like, you are a piece of

588
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 7>the divine, Like even the person that cut you off

589
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.599
<v Speaker 7>in traffic, you're a piece of the divine, and also

590
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:22.079
<v Speaker 7>recognize the humanity in them, the fact that we're all

591
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.400
<v Speaker 7>going to die, and you just go like yeah, And weirdly,

592
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.079
<v Speaker 7>I cannot tell you how much piece it gives me.

593
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.599
<v Speaker 7>Every time I like someone's annoying me in some way,

594
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.960
<v Speaker 7>I just go, you, I recognize the divinity in you

595
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:33.400
<v Speaker 7>and also the fact that we're all going to die.

596
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:34.319
<v Speaker 6>So none of this really.

597
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.599
<v Speaker 3>Matters, you know what we just started saying. Whenever somebody's

598
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.440
<v Speaker 3>driving like an asshole and like cutting up, it makes.

599
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:40.519
<v Speaker 6>Me feel better every time.

600
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:43.640
<v Speaker 3>We go maybe they just really got a pool.

601
00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:46.240
<v Speaker 6>Just really out to take a shit. It's just you

602
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:48.079
<v Speaker 6>know is an emergency.

603
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't drive anymore because I live in South Korea.

604
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:52.279
<v Speaker 2>But one of the things I used to do and

605
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.359
<v Speaker 2>I would get because I get, I get really angry

606
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.599
<v Speaker 2>when I'm driving if people do rude things is I

607
00:29:56.599 --> 00:29:58.799
<v Speaker 2>would tell myself a story about them. Yeah, be like,

608
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.759
<v Speaker 2>hey day, you had to do a report today and

609
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:05.319
<v Speaker 2>their boss got really mad at them, and then they young.

610
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I just tell myself a long It makes you so much.

611
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.119
<v Speaker 5>They have to take a ship, say they're on their

612
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:16.359
<v Speaker 5>way to deliver a baby, but I like gotta poop no.

613
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:18.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, because I used to say deliver baby.

614
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:20.039
<v Speaker 3>That's a guy.

615
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:24.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. Now the ship one's even funnier, Like she just cracks.

616
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.799
<v Speaker 6>You can't help it. You're like, that's funny.

617
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:27.559
<v Speaker 4>I would come up.

618
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:29.880
<v Speaker 1>I would come up with elaborate narratives about each of them.

619
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.559
<v Speaker 3>Well, let's better story for everyone.

620
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.079
<v Speaker 1>It would occupy my mind while I was getting angry.

621
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.359
<v Speaker 3>Oh Ver, before we leave vera talk.

622
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.440
<v Speaker 6>About we're gonna do something with forgiveness.

623
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.039
<v Speaker 3>Y'all gonna keep talking before I leave.

624
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:46.759
<v Speaker 7>We're gonna do something with forgiveness. I'm gonna tell you

625
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:48.839
<v Speaker 7>that right now. We're not gonna leave it there. The

626
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:50.359
<v Speaker 7>power of forgiveness is important.

627
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 6>It's important.

628
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.640
<v Speaker 2>His his reflex and after running away was I'm sorry.

629
00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember how hard it was for Londo to

630
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:02.480
<v Speaker 2>say I'm sorry to the what's his face? The magic guy?

631
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:03.359
<v Speaker 2>The technomage?

632
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and London and Londo's.

633
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Apology to apology to the Technomage was like it was.

634
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:12.880
<v Speaker 2>It was basically a modern apology and well, if you're

635
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.279
<v Speaker 2>offended by anything that I did, I am sorry for

636
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the feelings that you are feeling.

637
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.160
<v Speaker 1>And but like it was not where vere was just

638
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>like straight up I'm sorry. Sorry.

639
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.519
<v Speaker 7>I really struggle with people who can't apologize.

640
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.640
<v Speaker 6>I really struggle with that. Like I just.

641
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.200
<v Speaker 7>I recognize that people are often taught not to apologize,

642
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:36.079
<v Speaker 7>and that is a journey that they are on, but

643
00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:39.000
<v Speaker 7>I feel that there is very little that cannot be

644
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:40.559
<v Speaker 7>resolved with a genuine apology.

645
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.400
<v Speaker 3>Londo also, though, is really tied up an ego and

646
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.160
<v Speaker 3>identity and how people receive him in his role in society,

647
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:47.000
<v Speaker 3>and fear is not.

648
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:52.240
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, like what strength means, and you know how strength

649
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:53.359
<v Speaker 5>is perceived.

650
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:55.759
<v Speaker 3>And and he views himself as a servant to the

651
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.240
<v Speaker 3>centaury to an extent, but he also like, I mean

652
00:31:58.240 --> 00:31:59.960
<v Speaker 3>the technic was holding the technod He's like, I follow,

653
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.640
<v Speaker 3>he wants people to want people to kind of worship him.

654
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.000
<v Speaker 3>He wants people to venerate him. He wants to have

655
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:07.319
<v Speaker 3>renown and glory. He wants all of these things that

656
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.799
<v Speaker 3>are indefinable. And the same thing as Jakar was talking

657
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 3>to yeah, yeah, and Jaikar talking to people on the

658
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 3>on the zocal where he's like, you think they're not

659
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.759
<v Speaker 3>gonna come for you next, the same thing. It's his

660
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.799
<v Speaker 3>undefinable need for glorious, undefinable need for for for veneration

661
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:25.960
<v Speaker 3>or what whatever.

662
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:27.599
<v Speaker 2>Ver isn't like.

663
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.400
<v Speaker 3>That, I mean Vera's Vere has been putting up a

664
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.000
<v Speaker 3>front to Londo on and off for a long time

665
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:39.160
<v Speaker 3>from from the Coming of Shadows, I think. And yeah,

666
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:40.759
<v Speaker 3>I made a comment in the episode, I said, this

667
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:44.359
<v Speaker 3>apology is for Vere to an extent, but it's also

668
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.279
<v Speaker 3>but it's also like, I.

669
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Mean, what else is in a situation like what else

670
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:50.200
<v Speaker 1>do you do?

671
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's literally I have to acknowledge, like and in

672
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:56.799
<v Speaker 2>the words i'm sorry, is an acknowledgment we I am wrong.

673
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.359
<v Speaker 6>That you suffered? Yeah, I mean.

674
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:04.880
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, what I like about this moment too, especially in

675
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.200
<v Speaker 7>considering like I don't mean, we're a part of a

676
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:10.839
<v Speaker 7>country where I personally don't endorse most of what's happening

677
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:19.319
<v Speaker 7>in our country right now. Personally, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah,

678
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.839
<v Speaker 7>I'm not American, so I will just yeah, uh yeah.

679
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:27.319
<v Speaker 7>And there are other countries that are doing things that

680
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:31.000
<v Speaker 7>I'm sure have civilians in them that don't endorse what's happening.

681
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.920
<v Speaker 7>And it's like, yeah, even like big groups of people

682
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:39.480
<v Speaker 7>are not a monolith there. I like that there's humanity

683
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:41.799
<v Speaker 7>in like even the oppressors, because I feel like there's

684
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:44.400
<v Speaker 7>often this thing where it's like all the oppressors are

685
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:48.559
<v Speaker 7>bad and all of the victims are good, and it's like, yeah,

686
00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:53.799
<v Speaker 7>nothing is a monolith, right, Nothing is a monolith. Like

687
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:56.519
<v Speaker 7>there can be people who are part of an oppressive

688
00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:00.799
<v Speaker 7>class that look to correct things or feel bad about

689
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.400
<v Speaker 7>it or genuinely are like not on on board.

690
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.360
<v Speaker 6>That's possible. It's harder, but it's possible.

691
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:20.280
<v Speaker 7>Like, and I like that Veer exists because it's like,

692
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:24.039
<v Speaker 7>let's let's bring some nuance to ship, like that the

693
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 7>centauri are not all monsters is an important thing, and

694
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:33.239
<v Speaker 7>even the ones who are acting monstrously are kind of

695
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:34.880
<v Speaker 7>questioning their decision making.

696
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:37.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they're.

697
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.119
<v Speaker 7>Like it's like, are you when are you going to

698
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:42.559
<v Speaker 7>turn back from this? Like at what point? At what

699
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:44.920
<v Speaker 7>point is the cost so high you have to keep going?

700
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:49.559
<v Speaker 3>Refa is a piece of ship though. Fuck that guy.

701
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:53.559
<v Speaker 7>We can have, We can have and then have like

702
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:56.480
<v Speaker 7>because I feel like oftentimes they're all refunded.

703
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Refu Londo, that guy from a couple episodes ago, veer

704
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:06.679
<v Speaker 3>exactly right now.

705
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.719
<v Speaker 4>The Emperor the Emperor here.

706
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:15.119
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, es so like, yeah, I just feel like it's

707
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:20.119
<v Speaker 7>nice to see some nuance to that situation. It's nice

708
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:22.679
<v Speaker 7>to see like yeah, because I just feel like a

709
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.239
<v Speaker 7>lot of the time, you know, it's it's like, this

710
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.800
<v Speaker 7>is the monster group monsters.

711
00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:31.639
<v Speaker 6>All of them, including the children, are all monsters.

712
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.519
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, drags are all evil, And I'm like, I have

713
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:38.400
<v Speaker 7>never once encountered a group of people where everyone is

714
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:42.599
<v Speaker 7>just evil. Like it just doesn't it doesn't exist.

715
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:44.719
<v Speaker 3>I have to leave. Do you want to see anything

716
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:46.599
<v Speaker 3>else you want from me? Right before we leave?

717
00:35:47.199 --> 00:35:50.559
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you one thing just before you leave us,

718
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:51.599
<v Speaker 2>because it's interesting.

719
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Uh, And we could keep talking after this.

720
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:59.239
<v Speaker 2>They in England, they cut the scene where Jakar cuts

721
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:02.239
<v Speaker 2>his hand, so people were really confused if it's just

722
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:07.000
<v Speaker 2>for violence, they they censored it. They snipped the shot

723
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.719
<v Speaker 2>and slicing his hand. This is un quoting JMS. You're kidding.

724
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:15.159
<v Speaker 2>I find that quite astonishing. It was done very districtly, discreetly.

725
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:18.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm dumbfounded. No wonder there was confusion about that scene.

726
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.159
<v Speaker 3>That's pretty funny. That's kind of an important scene and

727
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:25.199
<v Speaker 3>incredibly moving and Andres consulas should win a million awards

728
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:26.480
<v Speaker 3>every episode show.

729
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:29.119
<v Speaker 2>What they would have shown in England was just him

730
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:31.280
<v Speaker 2>suddenly holding his hand up with blood dripping.

731
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, and they're like, did you just strangle somebody?

732
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:40.880
<v Speaker 3>That's silly anyway.

733
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:49.199
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, yeah, this is a really good episode.

734
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 3>I really like my buddy.

735
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:59.800
<v Speaker 6>I just yeah, what an interesting Yeah, I just uh yeah.

736
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I really liked the choices that they made in that

737
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.199
<v Speaker 2>elevator scene to sit on it for so long, like, yeah,

738
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.320
<v Speaker 2>let us see Year's initial because it shows the to me,

739
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:14.519
<v Speaker 2>his initial fear and running away from Jakar made his

740
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.119
<v Speaker 2>eventual standing and looking in the eye while he apologized

741
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.000
<v Speaker 2>feel so much more if he had just immediately turned

742
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.880
<v Speaker 2>and been like I'm sorry. It wouldn't have felt as much.

743
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:27.079
<v Speaker 2>But you saw him steel himself.

744
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.119
<v Speaker 5>Because I mean I was, I was enjoying him looking

745
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.239
<v Speaker 5>out the non windows. I thought that was really quite fun.

746
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:34.920
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, like what do you do? Where do you go?

747
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.320
<v Speaker 5>What do you look at? How do you not engage?

748
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:37.519
<v Speaker 9>Well?

749
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.679
<v Speaker 7>Because apologizing, apologizing when you know you have something to

750
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.559
<v Speaker 7>apologize to or to is a deeply vulnerable act.

751
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:44.760
<v Speaker 6>I will not pretend like it's not.

752
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 7>It's a deeply vulnerable act because it opens you up

753
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:53.920
<v Speaker 7>to all kinds of reactions right, like at the same time,

754
00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:00.320
<v Speaker 7>definitely a necessary thing to do, yes, and it h

755
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:06.280
<v Speaker 7>you like, yeah, it's it's everything. It's everything, the ability

756
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.480
<v Speaker 7>to apologize, especially especially when you've done something like or

757
00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:15.440
<v Speaker 7>when you're a part of something that is actively so harmful.

758
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.960
<v Speaker 6>Like, I know it's uncomfortable.

759
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:22.360
<v Speaker 7>And like it's scary because you don't know how people

760
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:26.000
<v Speaker 7>are going to receive it, But it's so much better

761
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:26.440
<v Speaker 7>than not.

762
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm gonna try and say this without talking about

763
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Wheel time so people don't get upset. But there was

764
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:37.239
<v Speaker 2>I was having a conversation with someone about character in

765
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.599
<v Speaker 2>the Wheel of Time that I at a certain point

766
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.679
<v Speaker 2>I am no longer I still am rooting for her,

767
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:46.760
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not on her side anymore. And it's just

768
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:48.880
<v Speaker 2>because I want her to say I'm sorry. That's the

769
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I just want her to say I'm sorry because she

770
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:54.519
<v Speaker 2>hurt people. And a friend of mine response was why

771
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.559
<v Speaker 2>you need we need less women apologizing? It was like, why,

772
00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>first of all, what a typically? What we need is

773
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.639
<v Speaker 2>more men apology. Apologizing is not a sign of weakness.

774
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:09.159
<v Speaker 6>No, no sign of strength strength. It's that's what this.

775
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Scene showed to me. It's a sign of the big

776
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:13.320
<v Speaker 2>technical energy that be your hands.

777
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:17.559
<v Speaker 7>What makes me insane is that we have equated things

778
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:20.039
<v Speaker 7>that are strong with weakness in a way that makes

779
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:24.800
<v Speaker 7>me the ability to feel strength always, the kind heartedness

780
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:29.239
<v Speaker 7>strength always, like imagine going The kindest people I know

781
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 7>are the people who have gone through the most ship.

782
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.760
<v Speaker 7>They're always the kindest fucking people I've ever met in

783
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:35.280
<v Speaker 7>my life.

784
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.039
<v Speaker 6>Because why do you want to make your life worse?

785
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:38.360
<v Speaker 9>Yeah?

786
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:39.280
<v Speaker 6>Duh?

787
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.519
<v Speaker 5>The apologizing thing is interesting, So we but but it

788
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:48.159
<v Speaker 5>is interesting. So we initially on little Ellen and I'm

789
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:50.760
<v Speaker 5>wearing my Ellen shirt today.

790
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:55.159
<v Speaker 4>We you know, we we we did. We had sort

791
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:55.400
<v Speaker 4>of a.

792
00:39:57.239 --> 00:39:59.639
<v Speaker 5>My writing team and I my writing team came to

793
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:03.199
<v Speaker 5>me because Okay, I am a classic I'm an over apologizer.

794
00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:05.599
<v Speaker 5>And then I've been called on it some time. Yeah,

795
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:07.400
<v Speaker 5>and you're Canadian, so and I might as well be Canadian.

796
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:09.400
<v Speaker 5>I'd like grew up right across the Canadian border, so like,

797
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.480
<v Speaker 5>you know, and I'm an overapologizer by far, and so

798
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:15.280
<v Speaker 5>I and I got called out at it. I remember

799
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:17.760
<v Speaker 5>when I went to Denmark when I was fourteen and

800
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:21.320
<v Speaker 5>I was living with my Danish family, and I my

801
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.199
<v Speaker 5>Danish mom, I kept saying like, oh, I'm sorry, like

802
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.760
<v Speaker 5>for everything. I mean, I mean okay, and I just

803
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:29.039
<v Speaker 5>spent a week being sick and apologizing for being sick.

804
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:30.880
<v Speaker 5>And David was like, if you say sorry one more time,

805
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:32.360
<v Speaker 5>you're gonna have.

806
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:33.480
<v Speaker 4>Something to be sorry for our lady.

807
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.400
<v Speaker 5>You know, he never actually say that, but you know,

808
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:39.599
<v Speaker 5>so I'm a classic overapologizer and I apologize and too much.

809
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:42.360
<v Speaker 5>So my Danish mom after I said it like five

810
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:44.119
<v Speaker 5>times in a row, like oh, I'm sorry, like I

811
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:45.840
<v Speaker 5>bumped into the wall and said I'm sorry, like I

812
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:48.159
<v Speaker 5>don't know, it was just stupid, and she was like Jennifer,

813
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:50.239
<v Speaker 5>and I was using it in Danish. I was saying

814
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:52.320
<v Speaker 5>in Danish school, and she was like, stop step stop.

815
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.679
<v Speaker 5>That is not how we use that word here. It

816
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:59.320
<v Speaker 5>means nothing if you say it constantly. And it was

817
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:03.440
<v Speaker 5>this really wonderful like wake up call for me of like, oh,

818
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:06.320
<v Speaker 5>apologizing to say like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

819
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.559
<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry, but everything is like makes it meaningless. And

820
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:10.320
<v Speaker 5>she was like, say you're sorry when you fucking do

821
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:12.639
<v Speaker 5>something wrong. She didn't say fucking say you're sorry when

822
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:14.519
<v Speaker 5>you do something wrong. Say you're sorry when you hurt

823
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 5>somebody's feelings. Say you're sorry when you like, when you

824
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.360
<v Speaker 5>break something, even if it's an accident. Sure, say you're sorry.

825
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:22.639
<v Speaker 5>Don't say you're sorry for things that aren't important, because

826
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:26.159
<v Speaker 5>it diminishes what it means it has value, which I

827
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:29.119
<v Speaker 5>thought was such a great lesson. I'm still an overapologizer,

828
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 5>but I'm much better than I was at fourteen.

829
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.079
<v Speaker 6>I must say with that, I'm business say thank you.

830
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.039
<v Speaker 4>Ud and so on. Little Ellen.

831
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:41.559
<v Speaker 5>You know, me still being an overapologizer and me being

832
00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:43.760
<v Speaker 5>a woman's showrunner and one of the first womens showrunners

833
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Speaker 5>at Warner Brothers Animation, found myself sometimes apologizing when I

834
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.760
<v Speaker 5>probably shouldn't have, and my two young women writers on

835
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:54.800
<v Speaker 5>my on my writing team writing staff, who are very

836
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.400
<v Speaker 5>good friends of mine, were just like Jennifer stopp fucking apologizing.

837
00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.920
<v Speaker 5>They did say, fucking is it stop apologizing? You are

838
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:03.719
<v Speaker 5>not allowed to say say you're sorry, like because I

839
00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:05.719
<v Speaker 5>was saying it for things again that were just sort

840
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.599
<v Speaker 5>of like either not my fault or not in my control.

841
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:12.280
<v Speaker 5>And and they were like, you shouldn't. You don't need

842
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.960
<v Speaker 5>to apologize for that, or if I would ask them

843
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.920
<v Speaker 5>to do something, they're just like why he was apologizing,

844
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.480
<v Speaker 5>Like that's our job. And so that like it became

845
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:23.280
<v Speaker 5>a balance. And then we had we had a show

846
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:25.440
<v Speaker 5>with three kids, two girls and a boy. This is

847
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.039
<v Speaker 5>I'm getting to a point and they were like, how

848
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:30.679
<v Speaker 5>about we have a rule where because you know, and

849
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:32.800
<v Speaker 5>I would write sorry into a script, and they were like,

850
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:34.440
<v Speaker 5>she doesn't need to say sorry for that. She didn't

851
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.800
<v Speaker 5>do anything wrong, Like that's not something to apologize for,

852
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.280
<v Speaker 5>she didn't do anything wrong, Like, so let's let's make

853
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:40.880
<v Speaker 5>a rule that not like none of the girls on

854
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:45.079
<v Speaker 5>the show are like saying sorry, you know. Like so

855
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:46.559
<v Speaker 5>it was kind of in the beginning of the show

856
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:48.559
<v Speaker 5>kind of a rule of like making sure, we weren't

857
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:51.480
<v Speaker 5>writing that into scripts. And then a little bit later

858
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 5>I was like, you know, like, sorry, there's a loud

859
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:55.239
<v Speaker 5>coughing coming from the.

860
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:56.360
<v Speaker 6>Other don't say sorry.

861
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.079
<v Speaker 5>Oh my god, I did didn't I I literally I

862
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 5>just did it.

863
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:01.480
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

864
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.320
<v Speaker 5>So a little bit later into the season, we were like,

865
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 5>we need a show that's about an apology, that's about

866
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:12.840
<v Speaker 5>how to apologize, And so we wrote a whole show

867
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:18.039
<v Speaker 5>that was about like a little Ellen taking like potshots

868
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:19.880
<v Speaker 5>at her friends, like sort of for the fun to

869
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:21.679
<v Speaker 5>like get a laugh because she was practicing out of

870
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 5>comedy skills, but she was doing it really badly and

871
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.039
<v Speaker 5>saying things that were hurtful and mean and then had

872
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.719
<v Speaker 5>to yeah, and then had to have her apologize to them.

873
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.360
<v Speaker 5>And so the whole episode, like I mean, and I

874
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.199
<v Speaker 5>did like such a great deep dive into psychology and like, really,

875
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:37.480
<v Speaker 5>what is an apology? What is what makes a good apology?

876
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.079
<v Speaker 5>What makes it important? And I was like I'm going

877
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:40.920
<v Speaker 5>to write it in like I want this to be

878
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:42.760
<v Speaker 5>in there. I want this to be the lesson episode

879
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:48.320
<v Speaker 5>that teaches people why apologizing is strength and important and

880
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.079
<v Speaker 5>how to do it in a meaningful way that actually

881
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:54.159
<v Speaker 5>means something and isn't just lip service anyway. That's a

882
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:55.440
<v Speaker 5>really long ass story.

883
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.360
<v Speaker 7>I've been thinking a lot about apologizing because I am

884
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:02.599
<v Speaker 7>also an overapologizer, have been called out for it, had

885
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:06.159
<v Speaker 7>friends do an intervention where they're like, you need to

886
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.639
<v Speaker 7>like understand that, like you're not doing anything wrong, Like

887
00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:13.239
<v Speaker 7>when when there's something to apologize for, we'll let you know,

888
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:18.360
<v Speaker 7>and like that was nice. At the same time, and

889
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:21.679
<v Speaker 7>I've been thinking a lot about overexplaining and like the

890
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.199
<v Speaker 7>need to be understood, and I think I think it's

891
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.039
<v Speaker 7>this thing of like there's a line that gets crossed

892
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:31.440
<v Speaker 7>where it becomes and it attempts to control things, to

893
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.519
<v Speaker 7>like control how people see you, you know what I mean,

894
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.880
<v Speaker 7>Where it's like your attempts at repair and your attempts

895
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:38.760
<v Speaker 7>at like it's the delend thing.

896
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:40.440
<v Speaker 6>It's like why are you doing it?

897
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:43.079
<v Speaker 7>Are you doing it because you genuinely feel bad or

898
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.039
<v Speaker 7>because you're trying to control the outcome of this interaction

899
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:49.639
<v Speaker 7>before you even have any evidence that there's anything to control.

900
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 7>It's like your brain is scanning for threats in advance,

901
00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:56.079
<v Speaker 7>and so you need to like like take control of

902
00:44:56.079 --> 00:45:00.320
<v Speaker 7>the situation and over explain or overapologize for yourself when

903
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.960
<v Speaker 7>like no one is needing or asking for you to

904
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:03.360
<v Speaker 7>do that.

905
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:05.360
<v Speaker 6>It's a fawning response.

906
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:09.559
<v Speaker 7>Right, And it attempts to like ingratiate yourself with people

907
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:12.920
<v Speaker 7>so that you are not exposed in any way, so

908
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.599
<v Speaker 7>that you are not uncomfortable in any way, so you

909
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:19.159
<v Speaker 7>don't actually have to genuinely feel bad. It's an attempt

910
00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:23.960
<v Speaker 7>to like alleviate discomfort in advance for yourself. And it's like,

911
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:27.159
<v Speaker 7>discomfort is not necessarily bad. That's the thing about apologies,

912
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:28.480
<v Speaker 7>genuine apologies.

913
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:29.199
<v Speaker 6>It's like it's.

914
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:32.280
<v Speaker 7>Uncomfortable, but it should be not But yeah, but it's

915
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 7>discomfort isn't bad. Discomfort is not a threat. Like anxiety

916
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.000
<v Speaker 7>comes from the inability to sit in discomfort.

917
00:45:41.079 --> 00:45:45.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, because you viewed discomfort as a threat. Yeah, So

918
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:46.559
<v Speaker 6>like that's what I've.

919
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:48.679
<v Speaker 7>Been working on in myself, is like because at first,

920
00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:51.920
<v Speaker 7>I was like, what's wrong with over explaining, Like isn't

921
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.400
<v Speaker 7>it good to make sure that everybody understands where you're

922
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:57.960
<v Speaker 7>coming from? And it's like, well yeah, but like at

923
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:01.239
<v Speaker 7>a certain point it takes your or oh, it's so

924
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.320
<v Speaker 7>much emotional labor that is not asked for and it's

925
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:07.880
<v Speaker 7>not really about them and making sure that their feelings

926
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:13.039
<v Speaker 7>are good. It's about controlling their perception of you, which

927
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.639
<v Speaker 7>is just as bad as not just as bad. It's

928
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:21.320
<v Speaker 7>different bad. Let's not say bad. It's a different issue then,

929
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:25.159
<v Speaker 7>but not dissimilar issue for being someone who can't apologize

930
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 7>because you're again trying to control how people see you.

931
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's true, it's true.

932
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:32.079
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

933
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:34.320
<v Speaker 7>It comes from a desire to control the outcome of

934
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:37.760
<v Speaker 7>a social situation so that you're not left feeling uncertain

935
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:38.559
<v Speaker 7>and uncomfortable.

936
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:40.480
<v Speaker 9>Yeah.

937
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the apology thing.

938
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:43.960
<v Speaker 2>As a Canadian, I actually have had to explain to

939
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.599
<v Speaker 2>my Korean friends that when I say I'm sorry, I

940
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:50.599
<v Speaker 2>don't mean like the Korean version, which is miyanada. I like,

941
00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:54.400
<v Speaker 2>if I mean nyandada, which is like I apologize or

942
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:56.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. I will say it in Korean. I'm not

943
00:46:56.599 --> 00:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>going to say it in English because when I say

944
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, I literally just mean a bad thing happened.

945
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Like that's that's what it means, a bad thing happened.

946
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:07.320
<v Speaker 2>And now I will say the bad thing like you know,

947
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:09.199
<v Speaker 2>somebody's coughing in the other room, I would say a

948
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:11.480
<v Speaker 2>bad thing happened. A person is coughing in the other room,

949
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:14.280
<v Speaker 2>like that's that's what it means. It doesn't mean anything,

950
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and then I'm okay, but then why do you Like,

951
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:20.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I can't explain it. It's just language

952
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:26.199
<v Speaker 2>is stupid and weird. But bringing it back to the show,

953
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:29.480
<v Speaker 2>like that's I just really like that scene takes time,

954
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:32.440
<v Speaker 2>and it takes the time in that in that moment

955
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:35.400
<v Speaker 2>to see the whole emotional journey that Vier goes on,

956
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.119
<v Speaker 2>and I.

957
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:41.039
<v Speaker 6>It sits in the discomfort. It's the most discomfort.

958
00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:45.599
<v Speaker 5>And also Veer's I mean, you know, all truth be told,

959
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:50.360
<v Speaker 5>like yes, the only thing he can do is say

960
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:55.960
<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry and offer his personal apology, which is wrapped

961
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:59.360
<v Speaker 5>up with condolences on that like on some level, but

962
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:04.719
<v Speaker 5>it's also like it's it's just like, how do you

963
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:08.360
<v Speaker 5>he Also, this is what's so beautiful about that performance.

964
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:14.440
<v Speaker 5>He knows that he could he could literally just let

965
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.519
<v Speaker 5>his veins and like and just bleed out on the

966
00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:23.039
<v Speaker 5>floor and it would not in sufficient be sufficient for

967
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:26.559
<v Speaker 5>what has happened, and that Jaikar, the depth of what

968
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:29.199
<v Speaker 5>that apology is trying to represent, the depth of what

969
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:34.199
<v Speaker 5>he's apologizing for, is unknowable. And so it is a

970
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:37.079
<v Speaker 5>it's that is really clear in that moment as well,

971
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:40.559
<v Speaker 5>because it's not like sorry, Jakar, I told him the locker,

972
00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:44.000
<v Speaker 5>your locker combination and your your gym clothes not stolen.

973
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:47.079
<v Speaker 5>You know, it's so much more than that, and it's

974
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:51.280
<v Speaker 5>it's a beautiful scene and says a lot about Stephen Firth.

975
00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:53.800
<v Speaker 7>I've had some really and I won't go into what,

976
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.159
<v Speaker 7>but I've had some like pretty dark stuff happen in

977
00:48:57.199 --> 00:48:57.679
<v Speaker 7>my life.

978
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.199
<v Speaker 6>And like I've talked about this before, where.

979
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:04.920
<v Speaker 7>I just I think about it and I'm like, I

980
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.320
<v Speaker 7>would so much rather have had it happen to me

981
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:10.679
<v Speaker 7>than live my life being a person that did those things,

982
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:12.039
<v Speaker 7>do you know what I mean?

983
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:13.519
<v Speaker 6>Like I think about that a lot.

984
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:17.559
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Like, yeah, I think about those people a lot,

985
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:19.800
<v Speaker 7>and I think about them and I go, like, what

986
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.400
<v Speaker 7>a burden to carry for the rest of your life,

987
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.280
<v Speaker 7>because you if you've done something to someone where you know, sorry,

988
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:27.519
<v Speaker 7>is is it insufficient action?

989
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

990
00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:36.119
<v Speaker 7>That is so hard to live now, Listen, they did

991
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.719
<v Speaker 7>they still did that thing, so like you know, on

992
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:42.559
<v Speaker 7>the one hand, like, yeah, I hope they think about it,

993
00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:44.320
<v Speaker 7>and I hope they live with it, and well, let

994
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:44.639
<v Speaker 7>it up.

995
00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:45.719
<v Speaker 6>But I sit here and I go.

996
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.159
<v Speaker 7>If I had to pick, and like, if there's two

997
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:56.480
<v Speaker 7>shitty scenarios in this case, ah fuck, like having to

998
00:49:56.559 --> 00:50:00.000
<v Speaker 7>sit with being on the side of stuff where you're like, sorry,

999
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.320
<v Speaker 7>he doesn't cut it, but I'm going to try anyway.

1000
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.440
<v Speaker 6>Damn. Like damn.

1001
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:09.440
<v Speaker 7>Like that's the thing to carry. It's a thing to carry,

1002
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:11.239
<v Speaker 7>and you carry it for the like if you are

1003
00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:13.679
<v Speaker 7>not a monster, you carry that shit for the rest

1004
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:16.800
<v Speaker 7>of your life. Like you can shadow project and make

1005
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.199
<v Speaker 7>some fucking terrible decisions, and then as you grow up

1006
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:23.199
<v Speaker 7>and learn, then you have to circle back to that

1007
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.760
<v Speaker 7>thing and sit with it and stay with the fact

1008
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 7>that you hurt people.

1009
00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:29.719
<v Speaker 5>You're right, you're right, But you just said if you're

1010
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:31.960
<v Speaker 5>not a monster, and I just want to bring that.

1011
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.920
<v Speaker 5>I want to like, I want to jump on that

1012
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.000
<v Speaker 5>because we're talking about the episode of Jack the Ripper.

1013
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:37.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and.

1014
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:53.119
<v Speaker 5>I don't think he has redeemed himself. I don't think

1015
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:57.039
<v Speaker 5>he's not a monster by the end of this. You know,

1016
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:00.440
<v Speaker 5>he's like, I've been inservited to them for vote under ideas,

1017
00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:05.280
<v Speaker 5>and yet he's also like I thought I was driven,

1018
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.960
<v Speaker 5>My god, I thought I had a purpose.

1019
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:08.920
<v Speaker 4>And and his.

1020
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:14.840
<v Speaker 5>He's not, he's he hasn't convinced himself that he's not.

1021
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:18.239
<v Speaker 5>He doesn't think he's a monster. Like I don't think

1022
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:21.239
<v Speaker 5>that he thinks that he's not, Like I was this

1023
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.719
<v Speaker 5>horrible person, and I'm so grateful to the Vorlans for

1024
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:29.719
<v Speaker 5>rescuing me and setting me straight. Because he's and because

1025
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:31.840
<v Speaker 5>even in the last moment when he's like saying, you know,

1026
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:36.280
<v Speaker 5>when when Shardan figures out who he was and he's like,

1027
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.400
<v Speaker 5>good luck on you, a quist, you know, because he's

1028
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:42.760
<v Speaker 5>still kind of like my quest was holy too.

1029
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:43.440
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1030
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:47.199
<v Speaker 5>I just I don't see that he's like sorry, I

1031
00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:51.360
<v Speaker 5>don't see that he's come to terms with that. I

1032
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 5>think he is a monster. So I think when you're

1033
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:55.519
<v Speaker 5>saying like Ali, when you're saying like I, you'd rather

1034
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:58.800
<v Speaker 5>be the person who's had something happened to them rather

1035
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:00.960
<v Speaker 5>than the person who committed the all those crimes and

1036
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:04.079
<v Speaker 5>all those things, unless you're a monster. I think he's

1037
00:52:04.119 --> 00:52:06.239
<v Speaker 5>still a monster. And I don't think he does have

1038
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:09.000
<v Speaker 5>the level of depth of understanding of that. I'm not

1039
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:11.440
<v Speaker 5>sure that Jack does. I think other people do.

1040
00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:12.480
<v Speaker 9>Hope.

1041
00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 4>It's that interesting thing of like many.

1042
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:17.920
<v Speaker 6>I've been thinking about this a lot lately. It's so funny.

1043
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:21.440
<v Speaker 7>I cut sometimes sometimes I'll be like grappling with something

1044
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:23.719
<v Speaker 7>and then it comes up on the show. I'm like,

1045
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.840
<v Speaker 7>it's so weird, or like I'll be or it'll come

1046
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:27.480
<v Speaker 7>up in wheel of time, or I'll be like working

1047
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:29.239
<v Speaker 7>on it in acting class somehow or whatever.

1048
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:30.360
<v Speaker 6>It's like, it's so weird.

1049
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.159
<v Speaker 7>But like, I've been thinking a lot about like people

1050
00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:36.320
<v Speaker 7>who do things, to do objectively bad things, and it's

1051
00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:38.679
<v Speaker 7>like the fact that one of the hard things as

1052
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:44.159
<v Speaker 7>somebody who has had objectively difficult things happen, is not

1053
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:49.239
<v Speaker 7>knowing the impact of that on another, on the person

1054
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.039
<v Speaker 7>that did it to you, the people like your community,

1055
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:56.079
<v Speaker 7>that kind of stuff, like you don't know, you don't

1056
00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:59.639
<v Speaker 7>get You don't get to know whether they sit up

1057
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:01.679
<v Speaker 7>at night thinking about it. You don't get to know

1058
00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:05.519
<v Speaker 7>if it visits the highlight reel of bad stuff you've

1059
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:07.440
<v Speaker 7>done in your life. You don't know if they even

1060
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:11.639
<v Speaker 7>remember it sometimes right right, And like you don't get

1061
00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:13.960
<v Speaker 7>to control that, And it's like you don't get to

1062
00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:16.559
<v Speaker 7>control what happens, and you don't get to control like

1063
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:20.920
<v Speaker 7>whether they reflect or how they reflect or how they

1064
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:24.119
<v Speaker 7>make amends to or whether they do or like. But

1065
00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:27.519
<v Speaker 7>this man has theoretically been punished for four hundred years,

1066
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:32.199
<v Speaker 7>right by the Vorlns. How much time do we at

1067
00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:35.960
<v Speaker 7>what point are we like? He has been suffered enough,

1068
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:37.599
<v Speaker 7>even if he hasn't reflected.

1069
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:40.480
<v Speaker 6>We know, we don't know punishment.

1070
00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:43.119
<v Speaker 5>His punishment is to go around and interview people, is

1071
00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:46.840
<v Speaker 5>to find out if they are worthy, And he says,

1072
00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:49.599
<v Speaker 5>I've literally done this gazillion times and I have not

1073
00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:51.320
<v Speaker 5>found anybody yet who was worthy.

1074
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:54.360
<v Speaker 7>His punishment is that, over and over and over again,

1075
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:59.360
<v Speaker 7>he has to re experience his own falsehoods for four

1076
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:03.280
<v Speaker 7>hundred years, I guess, over and over and over again

1077
00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:07.159
<v Speaker 7>he threw other people, well intentioned people. Gets to re

1078
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:11.519
<v Speaker 7>experience his own delusional thinking and have it thrown back

1079
00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:15.639
<v Speaker 7>in his face for four hundred years, over and over

1080
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:17.960
<v Speaker 7>and over again. He gets to see himself and his

1081
00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:23.159
<v Speaker 7>delusional bullshit reflected in other people over and over and again.

1082
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:25.519
<v Speaker 5>What you're saying, which is yes, I get what you're saying.

1083
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:26.320
<v Speaker 5>And if he is a.

1084
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.119
<v Speaker 7>Until he finally finds someone who's the real deal, who's

1085
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:38.000
<v Speaker 7>exactly what he isn't, That's why he's bitter at the end. Yeah, okay,

1086
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:40.880
<v Speaker 7>because Jeff is everything what of John's everything?

1087
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:41.199
<v Speaker 3>He's not.

1088
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:43.039
<v Speaker 6>He finally gets.

1089
00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:49.079
<v Speaker 7>Who he thought he was right and the real deal

1090
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.960
<v Speaker 7>of it all and it and has to live with

1091
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:57.440
<v Speaker 7>the fact that that's not him. Yeah, he did monstrous

1092
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.320
<v Speaker 7>things thinking that he was right, and he he gets

1093
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:03.320
<v Speaker 7>to highlight reel over and over again how stupid and

1094
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:06.719
<v Speaker 7>like deluded he was for four hundred years, then gets

1095
00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:09.599
<v Speaker 7>to see who the actual real deal is everything that

1096
00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:10.119
<v Speaker 7>he is not.

1097
00:55:11.320 --> 00:55:11.639
<v Speaker 3>M hm.

1098
00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:17.239
<v Speaker 6>He just he still sounds like it sucks to me, and.

1099
00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:19.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean it doesn't seem like a love and you know,

1100
00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:21.320
<v Speaker 2>he's referring to it as unpleasant, so I'm going to

1101
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:25.480
<v Speaker 2>assume that it's not. He's not enjoying himself, but he

1102
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:31.400
<v Speaker 2>does still feel really wrapped up in his like, yeah,

1103
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I was chosen by God to like kill a bunch

1104
00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:36.559
<v Speaker 2>of people in London. Oh wait, no, now I was

1105
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:40.199
<v Speaker 2>chosen by the Vorlon to find the like he's still.

1106
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:42.960
<v Speaker 5>Seen torture people into into finding them.

1107
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, well he's uniquely suited to it. He's a violent person.

1108
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:47.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's exactly.

1109
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:49.840
<v Speaker 7>Like I just said this today on the Wheel of

1110
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:53.039
<v Speaker 7>Time podcast. I was like our on Wheel Takes. I

1111
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:57.559
<v Speaker 7>was like, you know, people who become torturers are probably not.

1112
00:55:57.519 --> 00:55:59.559
<v Speaker 6>Inherently like the nicest people in the world.

1113
00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:01.679
<v Speaker 7>I'm going to be honest about that, Like not to

1114
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:06.000
<v Speaker 7>offend the torturers out there. I'm sure many of them listen,

1115
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:09.599
<v Speaker 7>but you know, I'm just gonna say that that doesn't

1116
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:11.920
<v Speaker 7>seem like a career path that attracts like the most

1117
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:16.599
<v Speaker 7>morally upstanding human beings. Yeah, Like, I'm not They're not

1118
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:18.679
<v Speaker 7>going to go to John and be like, for four

1119
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:21.679
<v Speaker 7>hundred years, we want you to torture people Like, they're

1120
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.360
<v Speaker 7>gonna pick Jack the Ripper because he's gonna be good

1121
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:27.360
<v Speaker 7>at it. He's gonna know what he's doing, and in

1122
00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:33.079
<v Speaker 7>recompense recompense in in return, he's also going to be

1123
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:35.280
<v Speaker 7>punished for four hundred years.

1124
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1125
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:40.920
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it's kind of the perfect give in take. It's like,

1126
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:44.639
<v Speaker 7>we know you have a unique set of skills. We

1127
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:47.599
<v Speaker 7>know you are also a completely delusional human being and

1128
00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:50.639
<v Speaker 7>need to be reminded over and over again. Your soul

1129
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:53.480
<v Speaker 7>at its base level, needs to be told over and

1130
00:56:53.480 --> 00:56:58.000
<v Speaker 7>over again what a fucking idiot you are. I don't

1131
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:00.000
<v Speaker 7>like being called an idiot. Once let alone for four

1132
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:00.800
<v Speaker 7>hundred years.

1133
00:57:02.440 --> 00:57:03.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't enjoy it.

1134
00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:06.239
<v Speaker 7>It's like I want the sweet release of death, is

1135
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.199
<v Speaker 7>what he said. Yeah, how many people are like how

1136
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.239
<v Speaker 7>much suffering do you have to go through before you're like,

1137
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:13.960
<v Speaker 7>please let me die?

1138
00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:17.639
<v Speaker 6>And then you do that for four hundred years?

1139
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:19.760
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1140
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.440
<v Speaker 7>That seems like and that just gets to us to

1141
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:25.280
<v Speaker 7>a point where it's like, at what point has someone

1142
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:30.599
<v Speaker 7>suffered enough for us for our satisfaction? At what point

1143
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:33.440
<v Speaker 7>is someone doing some who has done something awful? At

1144
00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:37.239
<v Speaker 7>what point do they suffer enough? Are we like, you

1145
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.960
<v Speaker 7>know what, We're good now? At what point, like are

1146
00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:41.639
<v Speaker 7>we going to be like, you know what, Londo, this

1147
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.679
<v Speaker 7>makes up for all the shit you did. There isn't

1148
00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:47.559
<v Speaker 7>a way to repay all that cost. There isn't He

1149
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:50.400
<v Speaker 7>could suffer for thousands of years and there's no way

1150
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:52.800
<v Speaker 7>to repay the cost of what he did, right.

1151
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:53.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's just.

1152
00:57:56.079 --> 00:58:00.800
<v Speaker 7>At a certain point, do like you either have to

1153
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:04.400
<v Speaker 7>I mean, forgiveness is done for you, not for the

1154
00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:07.639
<v Speaker 7>other person. I mean it's it's both. It's like but

1155
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:09.320
<v Speaker 7>this is but at this.

1156
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:11.880
<v Speaker 6>Place, like it's it's so you don't have to carry

1157
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.639
<v Speaker 6>it anymore. They have to carry it.

1158
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:17.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, so.

1159
00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:20.599
<v Speaker 2>I did want to just talk a little bit about

1160
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:23.119
<v Speaker 2>what the Lens says at the end of the torture

1161
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:25.880
<v Speaker 2>when he's like, you know, for this one person in

1162
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:29.320
<v Speaker 2>the dark whatever, and then she but what about your cause?

1163
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:31.599
<v Speaker 2>And she yells that this is my cause. My cause

1164
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.440
<v Speaker 2>is life or a million, it doesn't matter, but that.

1165
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:44.400
<v Speaker 7>I no, I mean yeah, I mean yeah, like it

1166
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:50.719
<v Speaker 7>doesn't it's everyone's important.

1167
00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:54.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's what it was waiting for her to say,

1168
00:58:55.159 --> 00:58:56.800
<v Speaker 5>Like I said, this is not an episode i'd seen,

1169
00:58:57.320 --> 00:58:59.800
<v Speaker 5>and so I didn't have like I didn't know where

1170
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:02.480
<v Speaker 5>the lines are going. But that was like I just

1171
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:07.079
<v Speaker 5>kept her wanting, wanting to hear her say it's sort

1172
00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:11.000
<v Speaker 5>of the the it doesn't matter how big or how small,

1173
00:59:11.079 --> 00:59:12.920
<v Speaker 5>because they keep talking about the great War, this big

1174
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.280
<v Speaker 5>war is coming, like the war is coming, it's this

1175
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:19.199
<v Speaker 5>big deal and like, you know, it's the you know,

1176
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:21.519
<v Speaker 5>and the universe is at stake and whatever. I mean

1177
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:23.360
<v Speaker 5>like that, you know, everybody's just like this is gonna

1178
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:24.000
<v Speaker 5>be really big, this.

1179
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:24.440
<v Speaker 4>Is a big thing.

1180
00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:28.039
<v Speaker 5>And her response of like, but every you know, every

1181
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:31.519
<v Speaker 5>life matters, or if we're not, and I'm trying to

1182
00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:34.440
<v Speaker 5>like there's something else I have like that I've seen.

1183
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.679
<v Speaker 5>It's something even you know, in recent media that I

1184
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:40.360
<v Speaker 5>can't put my finger on, and maybe it's even real time,

1185
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:42.519
<v Speaker 5>which I just know too well. But the idea being

1186
00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:46.599
<v Speaker 5>that if I can't save this one life next to me, like,

1187
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.599
<v Speaker 5>then what does it matter about trying to save the

1188
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:52.280
<v Speaker 5>entire galaxy or whatever.

1189
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:54.840
<v Speaker 2>And it's literally a quote from the Tumut, whoever saves

1190
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:55.960
<v Speaker 2>one life saves the world.

1191
00:59:56.920 --> 00:59:58.440
<v Speaker 1>That's a time quote.

1192
00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:02.079
<v Speaker 5>So mm hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah, well and it is

1193
01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:02.960
<v Speaker 5>a beautiful sentiment.

1194
01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:07.239
<v Speaker 7>Yeah yeah, well, I mean, I mean you even think

1195
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:12.159
<v Speaker 7>about it just in terms of like our impact tends

1196
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:16.559
<v Speaker 7>to not be like in this grand scale, right of

1197
01:00:16.679 --> 01:00:21.119
<v Speaker 7>like I'm a person who saved millions of people, right, Yeah,

1198
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:25.000
<v Speaker 7>it's the impact that we tend to have tends to

1199
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:30.760
<v Speaker 7>be in our immediate communities, like we build one house,

1200
01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:34.079
<v Speaker 7>we talk to one person. I was watching Zootopia too

1201
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:36.000
<v Speaker 7>the other day, which is a profound film, and I

1202
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.960
<v Speaker 7>will not be apologizing.

1203
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:38.800
<v Speaker 6>For how much I love that movie.

1204
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:43.599
<v Speaker 7>But like he literally the snake at one point literally

1205
01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:47.679
<v Speaker 7>says to Judy, He's like, who, I'm very Judy hops

1206
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:50.480
<v Speaker 7>coded like I've always tried to, like, you know, do

1207
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:53.239
<v Speaker 7>the most. And he just looks at her and he goes,

1208
01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:55.840
<v Speaker 7>my family has been trying to get this done for

1209
01:00:56.079 --> 01:00:59.159
<v Speaker 7>hundreds of years, and he goes, they would not want

1210
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:02.519
<v Speaker 7>the like all of the all of that weight to

1211
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:05.639
<v Speaker 7>be just on your shoulders, like nothing was meant to

1212
01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:07.239
<v Speaker 7>be on just one person's shoulders.

1213
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:11.280
<v Speaker 6>We will succeed, Judy Hops. Yeah, And I say that

1214
01:01:11.320 --> 01:01:12.360
<v Speaker 6>to myself all the time.

1215
01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:14.039
<v Speaker 7>Now I just sit there and I go, we will succeed,

1216
01:01:14.119 --> 01:01:17.599
<v Speaker 7>Judy Hops, like it's I love that we will succeed.

1217
01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:22.760
<v Speaker 7>The difference that we make is largely like smiling at

1218
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.360
<v Speaker 7>someone who needed someone to smile at them that day.

1219
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:28.840
<v Speaker 6>That's that is, and we are not. And this is

1220
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:30.000
<v Speaker 6>something that I always.

1221
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:32.960
<v Speaker 7>Think about, is I'm like the coolest thing about like life,

1222
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.719
<v Speaker 7>if if that was like a request I could make,

1223
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.920
<v Speaker 7>is to know, like truly how much impact I had.

1224
01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:43.840
<v Speaker 6>I know, like, oh that person that like.

1225
01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:46.840
<v Speaker 7>You had that one brief interaction with that one time

1226
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:48.119
<v Speaker 7>you never thought about them again.

1227
01:01:48.199 --> 01:01:50.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that like changed their lives, Like that would be

1228
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:51.039
<v Speaker 6>so cool to know.

1229
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:55.000
<v Speaker 5>It would be And I think it's and you have

1230
01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:57.440
<v Speaker 5>to know that you'll never know all the stories so

1231
01:01:57.519 --> 01:01:59.519
<v Speaker 5>that there are so many of those out there that

1232
01:01:59.559 --> 01:02:02.719
<v Speaker 5>you just and when you hear it from somebody, it'll

1233
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.000
<v Speaker 5>be the smallest thing that you like that you're like,

1234
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:11.159
<v Speaker 5>what I just all I said was cheese, you know whatever,

1235
01:02:11.239 --> 01:02:13.239
<v Speaker 5>I mean. It'll be something so seems so small and

1236
01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:15.679
<v Speaker 5>mundane to you that in the moment you didn't even

1237
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:18.000
<v Speaker 5>think about it. It was just so authentic coming from you

1238
01:02:18.360 --> 01:02:20.880
<v Speaker 5>that had a massive impact on something. I just actually

1239
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:23.199
<v Speaker 5>told a good friend of mine, a good friend of

1240
01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:25.480
<v Speaker 5>mine who I'm like, I don't I haven't seen her

1241
01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:30.800
<v Speaker 5>physically in thirty years, about twenty five years, but you know,

1242
01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:32.840
<v Speaker 5>we just had a zoom call with everybody. It was

1243
01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:34.320
<v Speaker 5>the first time I actually had zoom caller where that

1244
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:36.519
<v Speaker 5>we've only been like texting for years and we don't

1245
01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:38.800
<v Speaker 5>text all the time, not very often. And I told

1246
01:02:38.800 --> 01:02:41.760
<v Speaker 5>her this thing that she that she did for David

1247
01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:43.519
<v Speaker 5>and I right before we got married that was so

1248
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:45.920
<v Speaker 5>impactful for our wedding and that we tell the story

1249
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:48.039
<v Speaker 5>all the time. And she was like, I don't even

1250
01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:51.039
<v Speaker 5>remember saying that, and I'm like, of course you don't,

1251
01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:53.320
<v Speaker 5>because it was so obvious and simple and authentic to you,

1252
01:02:53.840 --> 01:02:56.199
<v Speaker 5>and it had such an impact on us that it

1253
01:02:56.599 --> 01:02:58.400
<v Speaker 5>because she came to our pre wedding party in the

1254
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:00.079
<v Speaker 5>West Coast. It had such an impact on this that

1255
01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:03.280
<v Speaker 5>it affected our actual wedding day in such a profound

1256
01:03:03.320 --> 01:03:08.239
<v Speaker 5>way and impacted how we experience things together in the future,

1257
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:11.039
<v Speaker 5>like in our whole lives since then. And it is

1258
01:03:11.039 --> 01:03:13.599
<v Speaker 5>a story we tell that we tell to people who

1259
01:03:13.639 --> 01:03:16.280
<v Speaker 5>are getting married, like like a piece of advice kind

1260
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:19.079
<v Speaker 5>of thing, and we tell them this story about how

1261
01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:20.320
<v Speaker 5>how we got this advice.

1262
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:23.079
<v Speaker 4>And she was just like, I don't even remember doing it.

1263
01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:26.360
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, I bet you don't. Yeah, you know, yeah,

1264
01:03:26.480 --> 01:03:27.079
<v Speaker 4>it's really no.

1265
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:31.039
<v Speaker 6>The idea is how we am no white people none.

1266
01:03:31.119 --> 01:03:32.599
<v Speaker 6>And it's like that's the thing is.

1267
01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:36.920
<v Speaker 7>It's like, yeah, you're impacting people all the time, like

1268
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:39.639
<v Speaker 7>all the time, and you have no idea, Like I mean,

1269
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:43.239
<v Speaker 7>I bet it's quite possible that the woman that you

1270
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:45.760
<v Speaker 7>lived with who said that to you about apologies, like

1271
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:47.320
<v Speaker 7>has no idea that she said that.

1272
01:03:47.480 --> 01:03:48.159
<v Speaker 6>Does not remember.

1273
01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:50.960
<v Speaker 7>Like it's possible she might not remember that abs And

1274
01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.639
<v Speaker 7>it made an impact on you that you're telling the

1275
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:54.199
<v Speaker 7>story you were fourteen.

1276
01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, well that's I just realized.

1277
01:03:57.079 --> 01:04:00.000
<v Speaker 5>And I'm always having now two years ago, when she's

1278
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:02.360
<v Speaker 5>said that to me, you know, I mean.

1279
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Somebody said, somebody said something like that to me when

1280
01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I was around middle school age. They complimented me on something,

1281
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:12.320
<v Speaker 2>and I did that whole like, no, no, no, no,

1282
01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:16.239
<v Speaker 2>you realize you're insulting me because I complimented you and

1283
01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:18.199
<v Speaker 2>you are telling me that you don't like that thing.

1284
01:04:18.360 --> 01:04:21.280
<v Speaker 2>You've just insulted me. You've insulted my taste. And so

1285
01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:24.800
<v Speaker 2>like I was like, oh shit, oh my god, you're right.

1286
01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:28.360
<v Speaker 2>So now, like I I take compliments because of like

1287
01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:29.199
<v Speaker 2>a random thing.

1288
01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.320
<v Speaker 1>It was a woman at church. It was a woman

1289
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:32.360
<v Speaker 1>at church who said that to me.

1290
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.559
<v Speaker 2>It's like, oh, yeah, no, when people compliment you, that's

1291
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:37.360
<v Speaker 2>them saying a nice thing, and if.

1292
01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:39.960
<v Speaker 1>You deflect from it, you literally are saying, yeah, I

1293
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:43.280
<v Speaker 1>think your taste is bad. Yeah, your tastes is sad.

1294
01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:45.360
<v Speaker 6>No, it's wild, it's wild.

1295
01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:48.639
<v Speaker 7>What like, yeah, what someone will say to you that

1296
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:52.480
<v Speaker 7>just sticks with you for the rest of your day life.

1297
01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:54.880
<v Speaker 1>She was just an old lady who said that to

1298
01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:55.760
<v Speaker 1>me at church.

1299
01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:57.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I remember it was.

1300
01:04:57.400 --> 01:04:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Like thirty five, because I was thirty.

1301
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:03.199
<v Speaker 7>Reach out to I reach out to a former teacher

1302
01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:06.239
<v Speaker 7>of Bine recently and said to her, like, you don't

1303
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:08.519
<v Speaker 7>remember this, probably, but you said something to me at

1304
01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:10.800
<v Speaker 7>a really pivotal time in my life that I still.

1305
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:12.039
<v Speaker 6>Think about all the times of this day.

1306
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:14.800
<v Speaker 7>And it was really cute, Like we had a cute

1307
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:17.159
<v Speaker 7>little interaction on Facebook, and it was like it was

1308
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:19.000
<v Speaker 7>so nice, and it had been wet like over a

1309
01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:20.119
<v Speaker 7>decade since I've seen her.

1310
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:21.880
<v Speaker 4>It's really sweet.

1311
01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:25.239
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, truly, it's nice, Like, yeah, we have impacts on

1312
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:27.320
<v Speaker 7>people all the time. We have no idea, like you

1313
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:29.960
<v Speaker 7>have no idea, and like, and those are going to

1314
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:31.679
<v Speaker 7>be the things that are going to be the most

1315
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.800
<v Speaker 7>immediate like that, and you're never going You're probably not

1316
01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:37.920
<v Speaker 7>going to see most of your impact. And that's why

1317
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:42.599
<v Speaker 7>it's like, no, every single person matters because they're all

1318
01:05:42.679 --> 01:05:45.000
<v Speaker 7>influencing and informing each other all the time.

1319
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:49.760
<v Speaker 6>Our our like frequencies.

1320
01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:53.880
<v Speaker 7>Are project outside of our bodies, Like how we're doing

1321
01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:58.519
<v Speaker 7>that day, just walking by someone influences how that other

1322
01:05:58.599 --> 01:05:59.360
<v Speaker 7>person feels.

1323
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:01.519
<v Speaker 6>Like we are like like.

1324
01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:05.159
<v Speaker 7>Fields of energy, always influencing each other all the time.

1325
01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:08.159
<v Speaker 7>So it's just like once you start to recognize that that,

1326
01:06:08.199 --> 01:06:10.840
<v Speaker 7>you're like, I have so much more power just in

1327
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:13.599
<v Speaker 7>my little body than I think I do just in

1328
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:19.119
<v Speaker 7>walking by somebody and being a good vibe, Like, that's

1329
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:22.280
<v Speaker 7>huge because you could also I mean, how many times

1330
01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:24.480
<v Speaker 7>has someone ruined your fucking day and you don't even

1331
01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:25.039
<v Speaker 7>know their name?

1332
01:06:25.719 --> 01:06:26.599
<v Speaker 6>So many times?

1333
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:29.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure I've done it to other people too.

1334
01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:32.400
<v Speaker 7>Like it I'm sure, and it's like you just you

1335
01:06:32.599 --> 01:06:34.960
<v Speaker 7>just then you just start to like kind of go Okay.

1336
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:36.719
<v Speaker 7>Then one of the best things I can do for

1337
01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:41.400
<v Speaker 7>the world is try to be a vibe as much

1338
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:44.559
<v Speaker 7>as possible. I'd be aware of myself enough to try

1339
01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:49.000
<v Speaker 7>to be a vibe like and not put all my

1340
01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:53.840
<v Speaker 7>bullshit on other people. Yeah, Like, it's it's really that simple,

1341
01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:58.079
<v Speaker 7>you know, I don't know, it's like that. That is

1342
01:06:58.119 --> 01:07:00.360
<v Speaker 7>one of the best things you can do right now.

1343
01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:04.760
<v Speaker 7>You can do today all the time. Like if you're

1344
01:07:04.760 --> 01:07:07.039
<v Speaker 7>feeling shitty about how the world is, you can literally

1345
01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:08.679
<v Speaker 7>look at yourself and go, like, what if I was

1346
01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:10.679
<v Speaker 7>just a vibe today and I made like the cashier

1347
01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:11.639
<v Speaker 7>and whole food smile.

1348
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:15.719
<v Speaker 6>Great, you've done You've done good that day. You did

1349
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:16.239
<v Speaker 6>a good job.

1350
01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:20.440
<v Speaker 7>Great, you made one person happy that for five seconds, Like,

1351
01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:21.320
<v Speaker 7>isn't that.

1352
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:26.760
<v Speaker 4>Like what we're here to do mm hmm. So yeah, but.

1353
01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:29.800
<v Speaker 7>Or you could just be a drip that and a

1354
01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:32.639
<v Speaker 7>drain on people. That's fun too, I guess, like for

1355
01:07:32.679 --> 01:07:37.320
<v Speaker 7>about five minutes, Like what a waste of your time,

1356
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:42.920
<v Speaker 7>their time and your life. Yeah, yeah, lets people do it.

1357
01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:46.239
<v Speaker 6>People choose that, why not? But like, I don't know,

1358
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:48.559
<v Speaker 6>it seems like a waste, waste of time.

1359
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:53.199
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so that's like, but that's a whole like the

1360
01:07:53.239 --> 01:07:55.039
<v Speaker 7>whole thing of like what de Lenne said to him,

1361
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:57.079
<v Speaker 7>which he was like, I think that you're like this

1362
01:07:57.199 --> 01:07:58.719
<v Speaker 7>and lady, da da dad, And I was like, well,

1363
01:07:58.719 --> 01:08:02.159
<v Speaker 7>that's also quite presumptuous about somebody. Like we'll sometimes have

1364
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:05.000
<v Speaker 7>people treat a shitaly and we'll just decide that person's

1365
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.760
<v Speaker 7>a fucking awful person. And I'm like, all right, how

1366
01:08:07.760 --> 01:08:10.719
<v Speaker 7>many times have you accidentally been awful to somebody? Like

1367
01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:13.280
<v Speaker 7>never assume malice where ignorance could be explained.

1368
01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:16.079
<v Speaker 6>You have no idea feelings.

1369
01:08:16.119 --> 01:08:19.279
<v Speaker 1>She could assume some sort Well she didn't.

1370
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:20.159
<v Speaker 6>End up finding out that.

1371
01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:22.600
<v Speaker 7>I mean, he ended up being Jack the Ripper, so like, okay,

1372
01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:27.479
<v Speaker 7>you know, but I'm like, maybe, but you've known him

1373
01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:28.800
<v Speaker 7>about ten minutes.

1374
01:08:28.479 --> 01:08:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Like that's right, he has been torturing her the entire time.

1375
01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:36.960
<v Speaker 6>Granted, granted, granted, but like that is also his job.

1376
01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:44.439
<v Speaker 7>But again, as you said, somebody who listen, listen, I'm like,

1377
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:47.399
<v Speaker 7>there's a lot of nuance to unpack here.

1378
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:49.159
<v Speaker 6>Two things can be true at the same time.

1379
01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:50.920
<v Speaker 7>He can't have been Jack the Ripper, and she can't

1380
01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:53.159
<v Speaker 7>have also been quite presumptuous because she didn't know it

1381
01:08:53.239 --> 01:08:54.399
<v Speaker 7>was Jack the fucking Ripper.

1382
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:56.800
<v Speaker 4>This is true. This is true, This is true.

1383
01:08:57.079 --> 01:09:00.319
<v Speaker 7>There could be multiple truths that exist simultaneously, and the

1384
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:02.920
<v Speaker 7>minute that we get comfortable with that fact, the better

1385
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:07.000
<v Speaker 7>we will be doing. As a specie my opinion.

1386
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, do we have any other thoughts about this specific episode?

1387
01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:13.439
<v Speaker 6>It was a ripper?

1388
01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:17.760
<v Speaker 4>What you did?

1389
01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:22.840
<v Speaker 3>You know what?

1390
01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:25.079
<v Speaker 6>I didn't even do it on purpose until I did,

1391
01:09:25.159 --> 01:09:27.039
<v Speaker 6>do you know what I mean? Like I started saying it.

1392
01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:30.279
<v Speaker 7>By the time I finished the sentence, I had done

1393
01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:30.960
<v Speaker 7>it on purpose.

1394
01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:33.520
<v Speaker 6>But when I started the sentence, I did not. You

1395
01:09:33.560 --> 01:09:34.079
<v Speaker 6>know what I mean?

1396
01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I Oh my god, that's amazing. Any other jen

1397
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:45.119
<v Speaker 1>any thoughts that we can know the power of now?

1398
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:49.000
<v Speaker 6>It's so good, Okay, I'm going to be the power

1399
01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:49.880
<v Speaker 6>of now. I swear to God.

1400
01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:59.239
<v Speaker 7>I totally needs to start paying me because I serious, serious,

1401
01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:06.279
<v Speaker 7>like work for like trulye Pacholdren is also great. Check

1402
01:10:06.319 --> 01:10:11.079
<v Speaker 7>her out as well. Anyway, everybody should be doing that anyway.

1403
01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:11.600
<v Speaker 3>Yea.

1404
01:10:13.880 --> 01:10:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, on that note, I do have some stuff to

1405
01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:19.399
<v Speaker 1>say that you're not allowed to hear, Ali.

1406
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:22.560
<v Speaker 7>So oh okay, now I need to I've never you know,

1407
01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:25.399
<v Speaker 7>it's so funny. I've never been the one to put

1408
01:10:25.479 --> 01:10:28.560
<v Speaker 7>out of this no, so I got to figure this out.

1409
01:10:29.039 --> 01:10:30.119
<v Speaker 6>Okay, leave studio.

1410
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:37.960
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, my friends, you have reached the most dangerous part

1411
01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:41.079
<v Speaker 10>of our journey, the Gray Council.

1412
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:48.880
<v Speaker 11>Here we speak of things that must not be spoken, secrets, betrayals, spoilers.

1413
01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:53.760
<v Speaker 11>If you are not ready, turned back now. But if

1414
01:10:53.800 --> 01:10:58.000
<v Speaker 11>you dare to proceed, I promise you it will be.

1415
01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:01.680
<v Speaker 1>If I said.

1416
01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:05.520
<v Speaker 3>We got a baldy.

1417
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:09.920
<v Speaker 2>This episode is such a different one to watch once

1418
01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:12.560
<v Speaker 2>you know who the Vorlons are and what they're doing,

1419
01:11:12.640 --> 01:11:17.319
<v Speaker 2>because while yes, ego death good and healthy, there was

1420
01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:19.920
<v Speaker 2>no fucking need for this. This is a philosophy argument

1421
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:21.680
<v Speaker 2>with the Shadows. Why are we torturing de Len?

1422
01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:25.920
<v Speaker 5>I was really like, and I was trying. I was like,

1423
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:28.319
<v Speaker 5>as soon as I started going on about him making douche.

1424
01:11:28.359 --> 01:11:31.000
<v Speaker 5>I was like, because I actually I knew that there

1425
01:11:31.079 --> 01:11:32.520
<v Speaker 5>was a Jack the Ripper episode, but.

1426
01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:34.279
<v Speaker 4>I like it did not I did not.

1427
01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:36.359
<v Speaker 5>I didn't read the Lurker's Guide first, so I'm kind

1428
01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:38.359
<v Speaker 5>of glad I didn't because I didn't put the two

1429
01:11:38.399 --> 01:11:39.039
<v Speaker 5>and two together.

1430
01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:41.319
<v Speaker 4>I should have liked SiZ at eighteen eighty eight. I

1431
01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:44.039
<v Speaker 4>was like an idiot or eighteen hundreds.

1432
01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:51.840
<v Speaker 5>But but but I didn't. I didn't think. I was like,

1433
01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:54.279
<v Speaker 5>I was just like I was.

1434
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:54.720
<v Speaker 9>I was.

1435
01:11:55.239 --> 01:11:58.039
<v Speaker 5>I was just like, you guys are dickheads for doing this,

1436
01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:00.600
<v Speaker 5>and I was mad at Cash from the and then

1437
01:12:00.640 --> 01:12:03.119
<v Speaker 5>I was like, fuck, I'm like, I'm mad at Cash

1438
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:04.319
<v Speaker 5>because I know more.

1439
01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:09.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But then I'm like, no, I'm not like even

1440
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:11.520
<v Speaker 2>because I know I was in I was in the

1441
01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:14.760
<v Speaker 2>same boat as them the first time. Obviously, yes, even

1442
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't I'm not doubt the second time. But I

1443
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:19.199
<v Speaker 2>definitely like the first time I watched this, I was like,

1444
01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:21.960
<v Speaker 2>he's got a purpose. This is job in the Bible,

1445
01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:23.840
<v Speaker 2>although even job in the Bible is like, why did

1446
01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:24.199
<v Speaker 2>you do that?

1447
01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:24.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

1448
01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:27.560
<v Speaker 5>Yah, yeah yeah yeah, And I think maybe that's I think, well,

1449
01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:28.960
<v Speaker 5>that's a really good point that when you talk about

1450
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:30.520
<v Speaker 5>the first time you watched it versus now, because I

1451
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:34.279
<v Speaker 5>think me, as a younger me, would have been more

1452
01:12:34.359 --> 01:12:36.520
<v Speaker 5>like it's job in the Bible, and it's there's a purpose,

1453
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:44.279
<v Speaker 5>and me, me like agnostic atheists, grown up jen is like,

1454
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:47.720
<v Speaker 5>fuck you for job in the Bible.

1455
01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:47.720
<v Speaker 4>You know.

1456
01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:49.840
<v Speaker 5>And so there's a part of me that's like, no,

1457
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:52.600
<v Speaker 5>you don't have to. And I also do I not

1458
01:12:52.720 --> 01:12:55.560
<v Speaker 5>think that people like become deeper if they've suffered. I

1459
01:12:55.600 --> 01:12:57.399
<v Speaker 5>think you have to live. I think things happen to

1460
01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:01.800
<v Speaker 5>every good buddy. But this idea of you have to

1461
01:13:01.880 --> 01:13:05.159
<v Speaker 5>go through it to reflect on it, you have to

1462
01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:08.399
<v Speaker 5>like break everything down. I mean, here's the thing. It's like,

1463
01:13:08.680 --> 01:13:12.760
<v Speaker 5>I'm a horse trainer. I grew up riding and training horses,

1464
01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:15.880
<v Speaker 5>and the idea of like you've got to break a

1465
01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:18.159
<v Speaker 5>horse's spirit, You've got to break a horse to be

1466
01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:24.239
<v Speaker 5>able to ride them, versus the like the different sort

1467
01:13:24.239 --> 01:13:26.920
<v Speaker 5>of training that is more common today that like Mike

1468
01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:30.600
<v Speaker 5>Roberts started and stuff of like you know, like let's

1469
01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:33.760
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't have to be a battle in a competition.

1470
01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:35.960
<v Speaker 4>It can be a cooperation.

1471
01:13:36.800 --> 01:13:42.560
<v Speaker 5>And this to me is gratuitously like thankfully. It's just

1472
01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:45.239
<v Speaker 5>like zapping people with energy and like whatever, and like

1473
01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:48.079
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, I can be comfortable watching the actor go

1474
01:13:48.159 --> 01:13:50.279
<v Speaker 5>ah and pain knowing that they're not and I'm not

1475
01:13:50.359 --> 01:13:55.159
<v Speaker 5>seeing Game of Thrones level garbage, but which then I

1476
01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:56.840
<v Speaker 5>would have a whole of the conversation about why are

1477
01:13:56.880 --> 01:13:58.960
<v Speaker 5>we watching this? And I'm not saying it's gratuitous and

1478
01:13:59.039 --> 01:14:01.680
<v Speaker 5>GMS is part, but I am saying that that idea

1479
01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:05.560
<v Speaker 5>that you have, yeah it is, and like the idea

1480
01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:07.680
<v Speaker 5>that we have to break you down to make sure

1481
01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:09.760
<v Speaker 5>that you are the thing. And also Jack the Ripper's

1482
01:14:09.840 --> 01:14:14.239
<v Speaker 5>line that he says of like I've never found anyone

1483
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:16.560
<v Speaker 5>who is willing to just sacrifice in the dark with

1484
01:14:16.640 --> 01:14:20.000
<v Speaker 5>no one watching them, And I'm like, bull fucking shit,

1485
01:14:20.439 --> 01:14:24.960
<v Speaker 5>or a you've never tortured a mom, because no fucking

1486
01:14:25.039 --> 01:14:27.720
<v Speaker 5>mother on this planet wouldn't be like fucking take my

1487
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:32.039
<v Speaker 5>life to save my kid. When when this is all

1488
01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:33.960
<v Speaker 5>going down and I don't care if we're in a

1489
01:14:34.039 --> 01:14:35.479
<v Speaker 5>dark cave and no one's going to see it, I'm

1490
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:37.760
<v Speaker 5>not here to be a hero. I'm here because I

1491
01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:40.279
<v Speaker 5>love that part of my body that is outside of

1492
01:14:40.279 --> 01:14:43.359
<v Speaker 5>my body even more and I see all the potential

1493
01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:46.159
<v Speaker 5>that my younger thing, this younger person can grow into.

1494
01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:48.239
<v Speaker 4>So like fucking.

1495
01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:50.479
<v Speaker 5>Bullshit, I like call such bullshit on that line of

1496
01:14:50.560 --> 01:14:53.119
<v Speaker 5>like in all these four hundred years, no one is

1497
01:14:53.560 --> 01:14:56.079
<v Speaker 5>it's just who the Vorlon sent him to, like right,

1498
01:14:56.319 --> 01:14:59.119
<v Speaker 5>And I'm like, also, like that proves that you're the one.

1499
01:14:59.199 --> 01:15:01.720
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, no, that is that you're a fucking empathetic

1500
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:06.399
<v Speaker 5>human being. Yeah, there are lots of people who would say,

1501
01:15:06.439 --> 01:15:08.800
<v Speaker 5>you know, I see why I want that person to

1502
01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:10.880
<v Speaker 5>live more, and a lot of couples it would be

1503
01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:13.479
<v Speaker 5>like I like my I like I save my partners,

1504
01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:14.000
<v Speaker 5>save my partner.

1505
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:15.199
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to see my plate.

1506
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Partners strangers have save strangers like it's yests, like it's ysts.

1507
01:15:19.399 --> 01:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>It's such a The arrogance of the Vorlons makes like

1508
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:27.319
<v Speaker 2>I do have to consistently remind myself that this cash

1509
01:15:27.399 --> 01:15:32.039
<v Speaker 2>eventually is gonna he he's nicer than the other Vorlons.

1510
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:35.319
<v Speaker 2>But they are they are doing things, they are moving

1511
01:15:35.479 --> 01:15:39.159
<v Speaker 2>pieces around on a board because we are not real

1512
01:15:39.199 --> 01:15:39.439
<v Speaker 2>to me.

1513
01:15:39.560 --> 01:15:49.920
<v Speaker 9>Of value to them.

1514
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.439
<v Speaker 5>But it's also like, but there is even a level

1515
01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:59.119
<v Speaker 5>of like sociopath to it, because I mean, look, I

1516
01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:02.199
<v Speaker 5>I'm an animal BIOst I'm an animal behaviorist, Like I

1517
01:16:03.199 --> 01:16:07.399
<v Speaker 5>don't and I've never subscribed to the like humans have

1518
01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:09.960
<v Speaker 5>souls and animals stones and whatever, and they're lesser than us.

1519
01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:13.640
<v Speaker 5>At the same time, we get infested in California with

1520
01:16:13.680 --> 01:16:15.800
<v Speaker 5>these things called argentine ants. They're tiny little ants and

1521
01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:17.720
<v Speaker 5>they just like a million of them come into your

1522
01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:20.359
<v Speaker 5>house on there like trek through California, and then they

1523
01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:22.800
<v Speaker 5>go out a few days later, but they don't leave

1524
01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:25.159
<v Speaker 5>really unless you convince them to leave, and you kind

1525
01:16:25.159 --> 01:16:27.720
<v Speaker 5>of have to kill them along the way. Admittedly, I

1526
01:16:27.760 --> 01:16:29.680
<v Speaker 5>have killed many and I am very sorry and I

1527
01:16:29.720 --> 01:16:32.239
<v Speaker 5>feel actually bad about it. But at the same time,

1528
01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:36.720
<v Speaker 5>I'm not pitting one aunt against another and being like

1529
01:16:36.920 --> 01:16:40.319
<v Speaker 5>difference choose who's the sacrifice, like chooses the thing. And

1530
01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:42.640
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, that's fucking sociopathic behavior.

1531
01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like that's what it's. They are.

1532
01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:49.039
<v Speaker 2>They are orchestrating this, and part of me thinks that

1533
01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:50.880
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons they did this is not just

1534
01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:52.960
<v Speaker 2>to like make sure that the lens the one, but

1535
01:16:53.560 --> 01:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>it will make it feel more like they are above

1536
01:16:56.720 --> 01:17:00.600
<v Speaker 2>her in this, like they are. It's it's the it's

1537
01:17:00.680 --> 01:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>theater for the len, we are putting you through a

1538
01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:05.640
<v Speaker 2>trial that will make you feel more short a in

1539
01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:10.359
<v Speaker 2>your place, in our plan, but also in our place.

1540
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we are allowed to judge.

1541
01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:13.600
<v Speaker 4>You have control.

1542
01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:17.520
<v Speaker 5>We have the control in the judge and yeah they Yeah,

1543
01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:19.880
<v Speaker 5>I'm just like I was mad at them the whole time.

1544
01:17:20.079 --> 01:17:21.520
<v Speaker 5>I was mad at them for doing it. I was

1545
01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:24.640
<v Speaker 5>like it's unnecessary and I'm like, you're and your excuse that,

1546
01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:28.399
<v Speaker 5>Like that's what trustte, that's what proves you're the chosen

1547
01:17:28.399 --> 01:17:30.600
<v Speaker 5>one and you're the only two that can save the word.

1548
01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:32.279
<v Speaker 5>I mean because I know that that, like we're going

1549
01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:35.399
<v Speaker 5>to this place where like they are important characters in

1550
01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:37.279
<v Speaker 5>this story and have to be there, but I'm like,

1551
01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:39.760
<v Speaker 5>this is not the trial that shows us that. And

1552
01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:44.439
<v Speaker 5>also I understand the philosophy of like the question of

1553
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:48.119
<v Speaker 5>who are you, and like you are more than your name,

1554
01:17:48.279 --> 01:17:50.880
<v Speaker 5>You are more than your father's name, you are more

1555
01:17:50.960 --> 01:17:54.119
<v Speaker 5>than your job, you are more than your position in society.

1556
01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:59.720
<v Speaker 5>I get that. Yeah, but the the the the idea

1557
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:03.199
<v Speaker 5>of that is you keep asking the question when the

1558
01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:07.239
<v Speaker 5>answer is this to me, the way to get to

1559
01:18:07.319 --> 01:18:09.239
<v Speaker 5>the question, to gain is to just like to just

1560
01:18:09.279 --> 01:18:12.359
<v Speaker 5>wait and listen, like not to say, oh, good answer.

1561
01:18:12.399 --> 01:18:13.399
<v Speaker 4>It's to say go.

1562
01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:16.880
<v Speaker 5>Deeper, go deeper, yeah, and not to go zap zabs app.

1563
01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:17.439
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1564
01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:19.239
<v Speaker 2>There are so many other ways that they could have

1565
01:18:19.319 --> 01:18:21.359
<v Speaker 2>done this, but they do it this way this way

1566
01:18:21.399 --> 01:18:25.560
<v Speaker 2>because hey, it's the same as like people who pull

1567
01:18:25.600 --> 01:18:27.079
<v Speaker 2>a really weird thing out of my hat, but like

1568
01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Temple Grandon coming up with a different way to sorry,

1569
01:18:30.279 --> 01:18:31.159
<v Speaker 2>you just talk about.

1570
01:18:30.960 --> 01:18:34.039
<v Speaker 5>Soupburn conditioning, no, but upburn conditioning, yes, it's.

1571
01:18:34.279 --> 01:18:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Coming up with a different way to slaughter animals humanely,

1572
01:18:37.279 --> 01:18:38.760
<v Speaker 2>and everybody going, yeah, but we've been doing it this

1573
01:18:38.800 --> 01:18:41.399
<v Speaker 2>way and we don't really care about their suffering.

1574
01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:42.479
<v Speaker 1>Because it doesn't matter to us.

1575
01:18:42.800 --> 01:18:45.760
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter, And that's like there is it. There

1576
01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:48.159
<v Speaker 2>are other ways that they could have gotten her to

1577
01:18:48.199 --> 01:18:50.920
<v Speaker 2>that point of like if they thought, okay, I can't

1578
01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:53.159
<v Speaker 2>I still don't like that they're manipulating this battle, like

1579
01:18:53.199 --> 01:18:55.640
<v Speaker 2>they're literally creating a war that we have to fight in.

1580
01:18:56.399 --> 01:18:58.840
<v Speaker 2>But whatever, they want to get us to the point

1581
01:18:58.880 --> 01:19:01.399
<v Speaker 2>where we're going to fight in the war. There are

1582
01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:04.479
<v Speaker 2>other ways they could do it that would not be

1583
01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:08.359
<v Speaker 2>damaging and painful, but they do not care. They just

1584
01:19:08.439 --> 01:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>care about the outcome, so they're not going to think

1585
01:19:11.359 --> 01:19:12.920
<v Speaker 2>about other ways to do it.

1586
01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:15.720
<v Speaker 5>And it's not like it's getting there faster either. Like

1587
01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:17.880
<v Speaker 5>you know, you could even you could even not make

1588
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:21.279
<v Speaker 5>the excuse for but you could you could write a

1589
01:19:21.319 --> 01:19:26.600
<v Speaker 5>scenario where if you don't learn these lessons by tomorrow

1590
01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:29.640
<v Speaker 5>when they're going to get here, we're going to lose

1591
01:19:29.680 --> 01:19:31.960
<v Speaker 5>this war. Like I need to put you through through

1592
01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:34.560
<v Speaker 5>the ringer today. You need to like grow up overnight,

1593
01:19:34.600 --> 01:19:36.960
<v Speaker 5>whatever that is. Like you could you could come up

1594
01:19:36.960 --> 01:19:39.479
<v Speaker 5>with other scenarios where it would be very important to say,

1595
01:19:40.119 --> 01:19:42.199
<v Speaker 5>we'd love to be gentle about this, but we can't be.

1596
01:19:42.399 --> 01:19:44.000
<v Speaker 5>We got to ask you the hard questions right now

1597
01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:46.600
<v Speaker 5>and go deep. But this was like again, like you said,

1598
01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:47.680
<v Speaker 5>it just feel gratuitous.

1599
01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:50.319
<v Speaker 2>It is, and I don't I want to be very clear,

1600
01:19:50.359 --> 01:19:54.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that this is gratuitous on on jms's part.

1601
01:19:54.760 --> 01:19:56.399
<v Speaker 1>I feel what it feels like.

1602
01:19:56.800 --> 01:19:59.600
<v Speaker 2>And I've reference the show here before, but it's like

1603
01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:02.720
<v Speaker 2>the good where you're watching it and being like why

1604
01:20:03.039 --> 01:20:05.920
<v Speaker 2>why is why can't ge On you bleed?

1605
01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:09.760
<v Speaker 1>And why does no why does Cheety have a stomach ache?

1606
01:20:09.800 --> 01:20:11.560
<v Speaker 2>And like that's where and then you get to the

1607
01:20:11.680 --> 01:20:13.720
<v Speaker 2>end and you're like, oh, end of season one and

1608
01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:15.600
<v Speaker 2>a big reveal happens.

1609
01:20:15.800 --> 01:20:17.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna try that to buy a bit.

1610
01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:20.439
<v Speaker 2>A reveal happens, and you go, oh, okay, that's what

1611
01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:23.960
<v Speaker 2>it's gratuitous here. But if you are looking at it

1612
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:25.840
<v Speaker 2>from the lens of here, you go, oh, they have

1613
01:20:25.880 --> 01:20:28.239
<v Speaker 2>a purpose, they have a plan, blah blah blah. And

1614
01:20:28.399 --> 01:20:29.680
<v Speaker 2>when you look back on you.

1615
01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Go, no, that was a clue. That was a clue

1616
01:20:31.840 --> 01:20:32.239
<v Speaker 1>that they.

1617
01:20:32.119 --> 01:20:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Were not good guys, and that was what that feels

1618
01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:37.399
<v Speaker 2>That's what it feels like. I don't think it's gratuitous

1619
01:20:37.439 --> 01:20:38.279
<v Speaker 2>on jms's part.

1620
01:20:38.359 --> 01:20:38.800
<v Speaker 1>I think it is.

1621
01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:42.119
<v Speaker 5>I agree, I too, think it is intentional, and I

1622
01:20:42.119 --> 01:20:44.880
<v Speaker 5>think it is his intention of saying like it's it's

1623
01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:47.760
<v Speaker 5>one of his clues that he's laying that the Vorlons

1624
01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:51.680
<v Speaker 5>are the benevolent angels that we think they are.

1625
01:20:51.720 --> 01:20:54.119
<v Speaker 2>That we're gonna find out that they look like next episode.

1626
01:20:54.119 --> 01:20:56.199
<v Speaker 2>And I sorry, I know I did that a little.

1627
01:20:56.239 --> 01:20:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Heavi heavy handedly getting his prediction in there, but he

1628
01:20:59.319 --> 01:21:03.720
<v Speaker 2>sent that d to me three weeks ago have to

1629
01:21:03.760 --> 01:21:06.039
<v Speaker 2>talk about it in the podcast, and I desperately wanted

1630
01:21:06.039 --> 01:21:09.199
<v Speaker 2>to get that thing about him saying so they kind

1631
01:21:09.199 --> 01:21:11.399
<v Speaker 2>of look like angels, or maybe they look like angels

1632
01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:16.479
<v Speaker 2>before the next episode when they're going to look like angels. Yes, yes, yes,

1633
01:21:16.560 --> 01:21:18.840
<v Speaker 2>both heavy handed, and I apologize, but there was no

1634
01:21:18.880 --> 01:21:19.960
<v Speaker 2>other way to do it.

1635
01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:21.479
<v Speaker 4>I'm so glad we did.

1636
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:23.800
<v Speaker 5>But I heard something different in the way that he

1637
01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:25.720
<v Speaker 5>described it, Like I kind of went back and looked

1638
01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:29.000
<v Speaker 5>at it. Is that the theory he did too well?

1639
01:21:30.279 --> 01:21:34.239
<v Speaker 5>I he said something before, but and you and I

1640
01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:38.880
<v Speaker 5>talked about it about like he's clued into how how

1641
01:21:39.039 --> 01:21:43.640
<v Speaker 5>angels look different to every alien race, every species, because

1642
01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:45.960
<v Speaker 5>we all have our own mythology of what an angel is.

1643
01:21:47.720 --> 01:21:51.680
<v Speaker 5>But he didn't today. He said there's a universal angel

1644
01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:56.560
<v Speaker 5>that every race shares or something. And so I think

1645
01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:58.520
<v Speaker 5>it's going to be really exciting because it's gonna because

1646
01:21:58.520 --> 01:21:59.880
<v Speaker 5>they're gonna have to tweak it a little bit and

1647
01:21:59.880 --> 01:22:02.600
<v Speaker 5>be like, oh no, he actually looks different depending to

1648
01:22:02.640 --> 01:22:04.560
<v Speaker 5>whom he is appearing, Like.

1649
01:22:04.760 --> 01:22:07.039
<v Speaker 1>Does actually different to whoever he's appearing to.

1650
01:22:07.319 --> 01:22:08.800
<v Speaker 5>This is true, So I guess that side of it

1651
01:22:08.840 --> 01:22:10.800
<v Speaker 5>makes it the universe universality of it.

1652
01:22:10.840 --> 01:22:12.720
<v Speaker 2>But but it is different, You're right, which is why

1653
01:22:12.760 --> 01:22:15.439
<v Speaker 2>it's difficult for it. Like that the reason he's in

1654
01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:17.600
<v Speaker 2>the encounter students, because he would have to.

1655
01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:18.520
<v Speaker 1>He has to conscious.

1656
01:22:18.640 --> 01:22:21.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it's conscious, might be reflexive, but

1657
01:22:21.119 --> 01:22:25.920
<v Speaker 2>he looks it's a slightly different winged angel to every species.

1658
01:22:26.359 --> 01:22:30.560
<v Speaker 5>So you're what you're did Contact come out the movie Contact?

1659
01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:32.880
<v Speaker 5>Well whatever, Sagan had written it way before this, and

1660
01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:35.560
<v Speaker 5>I'm sure that JMS read Sagan because that I mean,

1661
01:22:35.560 --> 01:22:37.279
<v Speaker 5>and not that this hasn't been done before, but that

1662
01:22:37.399 --> 01:22:40.359
<v Speaker 5>is the idea in Contact, the aliens take the form

1663
01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:42.319
<v Speaker 5>that you that looks familiar to you.

1664
01:22:42.800 --> 01:22:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

1665
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:47.199
<v Speaker 5>The movie Contact probably came out around ninety four, but

1666
01:22:47.479 --> 01:22:50.600
<v Speaker 5>the book came out in the seven indies, I think,

1667
01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:53.119
<v Speaker 5>so yeah, anyway.

1668
01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just I'll read the direct quote from his from

1669
01:22:56.720 --> 01:23:00.159
<v Speaker 2>the from our DMS. Although we did talk about it,

1670
01:23:00.600 --> 01:23:03.279
<v Speaker 2>he and I talked about it separately, and then uh,

1671
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:05.800
<v Speaker 2>but anyway, this I can't remember exactly what he said,

1672
01:23:05.800 --> 01:23:07.279
<v Speaker 2>but this is what he said. Maybe Kush looks like

1673
01:23:07.319 --> 01:23:10.840
<v Speaker 2>an angel. Maybe everyone has the same conception of quote angel,

1674
01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:12.720
<v Speaker 2>and that's why everyone would recognize him.

1675
01:23:13.079 --> 01:23:17.119
<v Speaker 1>And then that was it. Because I didn't want to harp.

1676
01:23:17.319 --> 01:23:19.039
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to be like, oh, that's interesting again,

1677
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:20.920
<v Speaker 2>because I didn't wanted to realize that I was interested

1678
01:23:20.920 --> 01:23:24.560
<v Speaker 2>in that, so I just I pretended I didn't see

1679
01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:27.239
<v Speaker 2>it until he then a couple of later.

1680
01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:29.159
<v Speaker 5>Next later one was oh I missed that one.

1681
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:32.479
<v Speaker 2>Because then he put the oh new theory to lend

1682
01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:36.319
<v Speaker 2>his telepathic blah blah blah. And then I said, oh, yeah,

1683
01:23:36.359 --> 01:23:38.039
<v Speaker 2>I said, I missed your other theory.

1684
01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:38.479
<v Speaker 1>Sorry.

1685
01:23:38.960 --> 01:23:41.640
<v Speaker 5>So it was very clever. You got me on that too.

1686
01:23:42.199 --> 01:23:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, anyway, that was I'm very very pleased with them.

1687
01:23:47.880 --> 01:23:49.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is this is one of those ones.

1688
01:23:49.520 --> 01:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Is such a different one to watch, uh, knowing who

1689
01:23:52.800 --> 01:23:57.000
<v Speaker 2>the Vorlons are, and then the vere apology get like

1690
01:23:57.920 --> 01:24:00.159
<v Speaker 2>I like I said, I love how long we it

1691
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:04.239
<v Speaker 2>in that moment, but it also again just a mirror

1692
01:24:04.520 --> 01:24:07.319
<v Speaker 2>or I don't know, mirror is the only word I

1693
01:24:07.359 --> 01:24:10.039
<v Speaker 2>can think of right now, but comparing him to Londo,

1694
01:24:10.399 --> 01:24:14.199
<v Speaker 2>who has like his big arc you know, and I

1695
01:24:14.199 --> 01:24:18.239
<v Speaker 2>guess season one, whatever season it is with the technomages, uh,

1696
01:24:18.520 --> 01:24:22.079
<v Speaker 2>where he takes in the entire episode to apologize.

1697
01:24:23.239 --> 01:24:25.119
<v Speaker 1>Like a lot of season.

1698
01:24:24.880 --> 01:24:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Five to finally apologize to Jakar and it's going to

1699
01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:32.039
<v Speaker 2>have a heart attack and and all of this, and

1700
01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:35.359
<v Speaker 2>he will say sorry and Jakar will forgive him, like

1701
01:24:36.119 --> 01:24:39.319
<v Speaker 2>I can forgive you, but I can't like my people

1702
01:24:39.359 --> 01:24:42.359
<v Speaker 2>can never forget like you know. And and Jakar's forgiveness

1703
01:24:42.359 --> 01:24:44.600
<v Speaker 2>at that point is very individual.

1704
01:24:44.119 --> 01:24:50.039
<v Speaker 5>Like yes, what they have done together specifically.

1705
01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Exactly like it's it's not yeah, And it's because I

1706
01:24:55.079 --> 01:24:55.479
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

1707
01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:56.560
<v Speaker 1>There's no way to.

1708
01:24:58.199 --> 01:25:01.319
<v Speaker 2>You as you guys were taught, like I found myself,

1709
01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:03.359
<v Speaker 2>like there's just there are some things that there's no

1710
01:25:03.479 --> 01:25:08.439
<v Speaker 2>apology that can cover. But certain point forgiveness has to

1711
01:25:08.479 --> 01:25:12.760
<v Speaker 2>be given. Well, it doesn't have to be, but it

1712
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>is health. It is good to release things, just even

1713
01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:21.680
<v Speaker 2>with the depths of it. And I just know the

1714
01:25:21.720 --> 01:25:25.399
<v Speaker 2>show handles it so well. Yeah, and and oh that was.

1715
01:25:25.399 --> 01:25:26.880
<v Speaker 1>The other thing. I didn't write it down. I was okay,

1716
01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:28.079
<v Speaker 1>my nose, there's another thought.

1717
01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:31.600
<v Speaker 2>But the difference between when you were talking about that's

1718
01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:32.840
<v Speaker 2>why I was agreeing with you when you were talking

1719
01:25:32.880 --> 01:25:35.119
<v Speaker 2>about how Jack still seems like a monster at the end,

1720
01:25:35.560 --> 01:25:39.479
<v Speaker 2>the difference between him and Londo at the end, where

1721
01:25:40.680 --> 01:25:43.119
<v Speaker 2>I I don't think Londo's a monster at the end,

1722
01:25:43.159 --> 01:25:47.680
<v Speaker 2>even though what Londo did is like arguably factually objectively

1723
01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:48.560
<v Speaker 2>in the firy.

1724
01:25:48.359 --> 01:25:52.039
<v Speaker 5>Fictional way worse way worse.

1725
01:25:52.159 --> 01:25:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, he has a certain he has accepted his

1726
01:25:56.199 --> 01:25:59.960
<v Speaker 2>guilt at the end, like ye, like and his respon

1727
01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:03.800
<v Speaker 2>responsibility where I never got that mixed that feeling from

1728
01:26:04.439 --> 01:26:06.800
<v Speaker 2>like Jack. Jack was like I was chosen then and

1729
01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:09.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm chosen now and yeah, I'm miserable, but I was

1730
01:26:09.960 --> 01:26:12.239
<v Speaker 2>chosen for this and this is where I'm living my destiny.

1731
01:26:12.319 --> 01:26:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah.

1732
01:26:14.199 --> 01:26:17.239
<v Speaker 5>Whereas and he didn't like and his thing of like,

1733
01:26:17.720 --> 01:26:21.000
<v Speaker 5>you know, you're the chosen one too. He was kind

1734
01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:25.279
<v Speaker 5>of like, you're just like me. He wasn't like you're

1735
01:26:25.359 --> 01:26:26.439
<v Speaker 5>the You're what I thought.

1736
01:26:26.479 --> 01:26:29.760
<v Speaker 4>I was like that. I didn't that didn't see that

1737
01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:30.159
<v Speaker 4>at all.

1738
01:26:30.239 --> 01:26:32.479
<v Speaker 5>He was like, no, you're just like maybe yeah, no,

1739
01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:35.319
<v Speaker 5>maybe you're also wrong maybe.

1740
01:26:35.640 --> 01:26:38.239
<v Speaker 2>And it was almost like an abdication of his responsibility,

1741
01:26:38.399 --> 01:26:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Whereas that's the different, like Londo has taken responsibility for

1742
01:26:41.680 --> 01:26:46.279
<v Speaker 2>what he did and he suffers horribly, but it is

1743
01:26:46.520 --> 01:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>like there is no sense of him being like, well,

1744
01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:52.840
<v Speaker 2>I just sort of fell into that, and it was like, no,

1745
01:26:53.199 --> 01:26:56.600
<v Speaker 2>I made these choices and I have taken respect. The

1746
01:26:56.680 --> 01:26:59.640
<v Speaker 2>difference between them, it was I never thought that. I

1747
01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:02.640
<v Speaker 2>never thought to compare Londo and Jack the Ripper until

1748
01:27:02.880 --> 01:27:07.199
<v Speaker 2>when you were having that conversation, it's like that is interesting, Yeah,

1749
01:27:07.359 --> 01:27:11.600
<v Speaker 2>because you don't like Jack I think in his last

1750
01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:15.279
<v Speaker 2>ones on the show, where I still like when Londo

1751
01:27:15.359 --> 01:27:17.760
<v Speaker 2>is suffering, it's like, I'm so sad that you're suffering.

1752
01:27:18.840 --> 01:27:21.600
<v Speaker 2>You deserve it, I'm glad you're suffering, but I'm also

1753
01:27:21.680 --> 01:27:22.239
<v Speaker 2>sad about it.

1754
01:27:22.279 --> 01:27:24.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how that it makes no sense.

1755
01:27:24.399 --> 01:27:30.079
<v Speaker 5>Iense like but that's no yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure

1756
01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:30.640
<v Speaker 5>those are.

1757
01:27:31.039 --> 01:27:34.119
<v Speaker 1>There's a good episode. It's a very good episode. Not

1758
01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>much like one, well two things things.

1759
01:27:37.199 --> 01:27:39.399
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, not much of the but but not a time

1760
01:27:39.439 --> 01:27:43.319
<v Speaker 5>going on in terms of like I mean, there's the

1761
01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:45.680
<v Speaker 5>Chikar sub plot of trying to get that get the

1762
01:27:45.720 --> 01:27:48.640
<v Speaker 5>message weapons and stuff and yeah, and the message and

1763
01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:51.840
<v Speaker 5>like hang on to power, well whatever power that is

1764
01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:55.600
<v Speaker 5>what that means. But yeah, there's that, there's that side story,

1765
01:27:55.640 --> 01:27:57.720
<v Speaker 5>but it really just feels like it's the delend story.

1766
01:27:57.800 --> 01:27:59.199
<v Speaker 1>It's definitely the Delen story.

1767
01:27:59.279 --> 01:28:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh, I did mean to talk. Well, we just

1768
01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:05.760
<v Speaker 2>ran out of time, so it wasn't something I skipped

1769
01:28:05.800 --> 01:28:10.319
<v Speaker 2>in whatever. But when we're during the reaction, when Lanier

1770
01:28:10.399 --> 01:28:13.560
<v Speaker 2>shows up, there's questions how did he find them? It

1771
01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:15.439
<v Speaker 2>is addressed in the notes. I actually filmed the scene

1772
01:28:15.680 --> 01:28:19.600
<v Speaker 2>where he gets worried about Dylenn and goes Tolson, but

1773
01:28:19.640 --> 01:28:21.000
<v Speaker 2>it just was cut for time, and.

1774
01:28:20.920 --> 01:28:24.399
<v Speaker 4>I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

1775
01:28:24.399 --> 01:28:27.159
<v Speaker 5>And I was like, I mean, I was like, it's

1776
01:28:27.159 --> 01:28:29.319
<v Speaker 5>a big stay station. But it's also like not that hard.

1777
01:28:29.359 --> 01:28:32.239
<v Speaker 5>I mean, Sheridan knows where she is because he was like, and.

1778
01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:36.680
<v Speaker 2>He's her attache, So why wouldn't she have told him

1779
01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to grade nineteen?

1780
01:28:38.319 --> 01:28:40.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, exactly. It wasn't a big leap for me. It

1781
01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:42.520
<v Speaker 5>wasn't a hard it wasn't a hard lead for me.

1782
01:28:42.920 --> 01:28:47.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not for me either. But yeah, I think

1783
01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:50.079
<v Speaker 1>I think that those are.

1784
01:28:51.520 --> 01:28:51.600
<v Speaker 2>It.

1785
01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:55.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm just gonna I think that's it for me for sure. Yeah,

1786
01:28:56.680 --> 01:28:58.880
<v Speaker 5>except that I find myself okay, so this is the

1787
01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:00.359
<v Speaker 5>opposite of I do have one thing.

1788
01:29:00.359 --> 01:29:01.920
<v Speaker 4>This is the opposite of the londo of it all.

1789
01:29:02.439 --> 01:29:07.359
<v Speaker 5>I find myself obviously sympathizing with Jakar and caring so

1790
01:29:07.479 --> 01:29:10.840
<v Speaker 5>much about Jakar and his journey and his story now,

1791
01:29:10.880 --> 01:29:14.359
<v Speaker 5>and I do find it sometimes hard to reconcile that

1792
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:19.000
<v Speaker 5>with Hey, Leita, Heylita, you want to make some babies,

1793
01:29:19.560 --> 01:29:23.720
<v Speaker 5>like I mean, and it is you know. And I'm

1794
01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:25.479
<v Speaker 5>also gonna just say like a part of that was

1795
01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:27.560
<v Speaker 5>like jam Us writing a pilot and then like finding

1796
01:29:27.560 --> 01:29:29.960
<v Speaker 5>his way and like nuancing it in the year that

1797
01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:35.279
<v Speaker 5>it was from the pilot to episode one. But sometimes

1798
01:29:35.279 --> 01:29:38.119
<v Speaker 5>I look at that, I'm like, why do I like you?

1799
01:29:38.560 --> 01:29:39.439
<v Speaker 5>I did not like you.

1800
01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:42.439
<v Speaker 2>Jakar does one thing like that is one of those

1801
01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I think part of writing that into the pilot and

1802
01:29:46.479 --> 01:29:48.600
<v Speaker 2>is you were not supposed to like Jakar at first.

1803
01:29:48.600 --> 01:29:51.760
<v Speaker 2>You were something like Londo and so making him do

1804
01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:53.760
<v Speaker 2>creepy things and it wasn't like he was.

1805
01:29:55.159 --> 01:29:57.920
<v Speaker 5>Nah, he wasn't as creepy as I mean, frankly, doctor

1806
01:29:57.960 --> 01:29:59.319
<v Speaker 5>Steven is just as screepy.

1807
01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:00.399
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1808
01:30:00.520 --> 01:30:04.119
<v Speaker 2>He was offering what he thought was a position like

1809
01:30:05.119 --> 01:30:08.199
<v Speaker 2>it's it is creepy, it's uncomfortable and gross, but it

1810
01:30:08.279 --> 01:30:11.439
<v Speaker 2>also is like he was trying to be pragmatic.

1811
01:30:11.520 --> 01:30:12.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it's weird.

1812
01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, he does one other thing later on

1813
01:30:15.680 --> 01:30:18.640
<v Speaker 2>in the in the show that is one of the

1814
01:30:18.680 --> 01:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>things that I Nope, didn't happen.

1815
01:30:20.760 --> 01:30:21.560
<v Speaker 1>It did not happen.

1816
01:30:21.680 --> 01:30:24.680
<v Speaker 2>That is my thing where he gets a false eye

1817
01:30:24.760 --> 01:30:27.079
<v Speaker 2>because Cartagia takes out one of his eyes and he

1818
01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:30.640
<v Speaker 2>gets like a prosthetic eye and when I'm just gonna

1819
01:30:30.640 --> 01:30:32.520
<v Speaker 2>mention it now and then we'll have to talk about

1820
01:30:32.520 --> 01:30:34.399
<v Speaker 2>it when it happens, and then I'm just gonna pretend

1821
01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:39.359
<v Speaker 2>it never happens, because uh, Delenn and Sheridan get married.

1822
01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:43.800
<v Speaker 2>He leaves his eye in their room because he can

1823
01:30:43.840 --> 01:30:44.159
<v Speaker 2>see it.

1824
01:30:45.680 --> 01:30:50.479
<v Speaker 5>Yes, yeah, that's pretty gross and also really gross.

1825
01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:55.159
<v Speaker 1>It's really gross. It's also not just a car.

1826
01:30:56.800 --> 01:31:00.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to think when when did show right, like,

1827
01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:05.279
<v Speaker 2>when did men male writers start to realize that peeping

1828
01:31:06.079 --> 01:31:09.359
<v Speaker 2>was not cute or funny it was an incredible violation

1829
01:31:09.439 --> 01:31:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and a sex crime because like think about Back to

1830
01:31:11.960 --> 01:31:15.199
<v Speaker 2>the Future, which begins with oh he's a peeping tom.

1831
01:31:15.239 --> 01:31:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Look how nerdy and dorky and endearing he is, Like

1832
01:31:18.640 --> 01:31:20.840
<v Speaker 2>that's what the tom is supposed to make you feel

1833
01:31:20.880 --> 01:31:23.479
<v Speaker 2>like he's a little endearing.

1834
01:31:23.079 --> 01:31:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Nerd instead of Oh, no, that's a fucking sex.

1835
01:31:25.720 --> 01:31:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Criminal who is violating that woman sexually, Like yes.

1836
01:31:32.279 --> 01:31:35.279
<v Speaker 5>Why, yes, I mean And then well it was also

1837
01:31:35.399 --> 01:31:38.119
<v Speaker 5>that isn't because it's Christmin Glover right, It wasn't smarty

1838
01:31:38.199 --> 01:31:42.680
<v Speaker 5>he was yeah, yeah, but because I'm like, because you

1839
01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:45.159
<v Speaker 5>can't say nobody can ever say anything bad about Michael J.

1840
01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:45.560
<v Speaker 4>Fox.

1841
01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:49.960
<v Speaker 5>But but I wonder, Okay, I'm gonna go like, fuck,

1842
01:31:50.119 --> 01:31:52.840
<v Speaker 5>all right, am I making excuses for disgusting men? Or

1843
01:31:52.880 --> 01:31:55.760
<v Speaker 5>am I trying to find okay? Because I was gonna say,

1844
01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:58.399
<v Speaker 5>is there is there a culture because because pranking a

1845
01:31:58.439 --> 01:32:03.800
<v Speaker 5>wedding couple on their wedding night, it's also not on

1846
01:32:04.479 --> 01:32:08.439
<v Speaker 5>like there are many cultures in which there are pranks

1847
01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:10.920
<v Speaker 5>or watching. I mean, it used to be that you

1848
01:32:10.960 --> 01:32:13.640
<v Speaker 5>actually watched a couple consummate their marriage to make sure

1849
01:32:13.640 --> 01:32:16.520
<v Speaker 5>that they actually consummated their marriage. Let's talk about how

1850
01:32:16.560 --> 01:32:20.279
<v Speaker 5>that's bad in so many ways. But but I'm actually

1851
01:32:20.279 --> 01:32:25.720
<v Speaker 5>remembering my my, my cousins, my cousins. So one of

1852
01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:28.319
<v Speaker 5>my cousins is a priest who married me. He like,

1853
01:32:29.319 --> 01:32:32.439
<v Speaker 5>performed the ceremony, not married me. I didn't marry my cousin.

1854
01:32:32.520 --> 01:32:34.640
<v Speaker 5>I know my cousin married me.

1855
01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:35.000
<v Speaker 9>I do.

1856
01:32:35.640 --> 01:32:38.239
<v Speaker 5>And but he and so he's you know, so he's

1857
01:32:38.279 --> 01:32:40.079
<v Speaker 5>a Catholic priest. He's a Catholic priest. He is a

1858
01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:44.279
<v Speaker 5>celibate Catholic priest. And then his brother, my cousin, Greg,

1859
01:32:44.520 --> 01:32:49.279
<v Speaker 5>whom I adore both of them. Greg is a prankster

1860
01:32:49.560 --> 01:32:52.399
<v Speaker 5>in a big way, like always has been, knows how

1861
01:32:52.439 --> 01:32:54.079
<v Speaker 5>to make me cry when we're playing cards, Like he

1862
01:32:54.119 --> 01:32:57.560
<v Speaker 5>can be a dick, but I love him and he

1863
01:32:57.560 --> 01:33:01.359
<v Speaker 5>he and Mike jumped in a car and tried to

1864
01:33:02.319 --> 01:33:05.560
<v Speaker 5>We drove away from the reception to go to our hotel,

1865
01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:08.680
<v Speaker 5>and David's best man drove us. But the idea was

1866
01:33:08.680 --> 01:33:10.119
<v Speaker 5>like we were leaving and going out and we just

1867
01:33:10.119 --> 01:33:11.800
<v Speaker 5>like drove out into the country because it was beautiful's

1868
01:33:11.800 --> 01:33:13.279
<v Speaker 5>where we grew up and we wanted to go see it.

1869
01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:15.840
<v Speaker 5>But they tried to follow us because nobody knew where

1870
01:33:15.840 --> 01:33:17.479
<v Speaker 5>we were spending the night, nobody knew what hotel we

1871
01:33:17.479 --> 01:33:18.840
<v Speaker 5>were staying at that night, and they tried to follow

1872
01:33:18.920 --> 01:33:21.640
<v Speaker 5>us because they wanted to like yell outside the window

1873
01:33:21.680 --> 01:33:24.640
<v Speaker 5>all night, right, which was so silly and dumb.

1874
01:33:24.640 --> 01:33:26.920
<v Speaker 2>But that me is different because it would be a

1875
01:33:26.960 --> 01:33:29.560
<v Speaker 2>prince that you were aware of, whereas your car does

1876
01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:33.279
<v Speaker 2>not be like ha ha ha, I'm leaving an eye here,

1877
01:33:33.439 --> 01:33:35.159
<v Speaker 2>or even the next day it was like ha ha ha,

1878
01:33:35.479 --> 01:33:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I left my eye here so I could watch you.

1879
01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:40.159
<v Speaker 5>It was that's just really disgusting.

1880
01:33:40.560 --> 01:33:43.479
<v Speaker 2>Eat it, and like I said, there's if you like

1881
01:33:43.560 --> 01:33:45.880
<v Speaker 2>go back to a lot of movies and shows from

1882
01:33:45.880 --> 01:33:49.680
<v Speaker 2>the eighties and nineties, men doing weird, gross sexual things to.

1883
01:33:49.640 --> 01:33:50.439
<v Speaker 1>Women was a joke.

1884
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:56.920
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, okay, I am glad that we have And

1885
01:33:57.520 --> 01:33:59.880
<v Speaker 2>in this case, incidentally, I will just say, because I'm

1886
01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:02.159
<v Speaker 2>sure somebody will say this in the comments, he didn't

1887
01:34:02.199 --> 01:34:03.800
<v Speaker 2>just do a sexual gross thing to a woman. He

1888
01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:08.239
<v Speaker 2>did a sexual gross thing to John and to Lend.

1889
01:34:08.520 --> 01:34:11.439
<v Speaker 2>He violently did their prophecy in ways that they were

1890
01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:12.119
<v Speaker 2>not aware.

1891
01:34:11.960 --> 01:34:17.680
<v Speaker 4>Of and consent to and did not did not approve of.

1892
01:34:17.840 --> 01:34:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, no, And I, like I said, it did not

1893
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:25.239
<v Speaker 2>happen because I liked your car, and so.

1894
01:34:25.680 --> 01:34:27.600
<v Speaker 5>Does it make me less sympathetic in general?

1895
01:34:28.359 --> 01:34:29.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1896
01:34:29.199 --> 01:34:29.439
<v Speaker 2>But it.

1897
01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:32.399
<v Speaker 1>Didn't happen.

1898
01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:35.640
<v Speaker 2>It just didn't happen. That's all you have to do.

1899
01:34:35.840 --> 01:34:37.920
<v Speaker 2>That is there's certain things in the wheel of time

1900
01:34:37.920 --> 01:34:39.560
<v Speaker 2>that I did that for. You're like, oh, that's the

1901
01:34:39.600 --> 01:34:40.720
<v Speaker 2>thing that just didn't happen.

1902
01:34:41.199 --> 01:34:42.800
<v Speaker 1>There you go, look at that.

1903
01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Weird, weird how the paragraph just skips like it just

1904
01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:48.279
<v Speaker 2>jumps from here to year.

1905
01:34:48.600 --> 01:34:51.279
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, I don't know. I don't know.

1906
01:34:54.159 --> 01:34:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Anyway. So that's it, I think though, That is it

1907
01:34:59.800 --> 01:35:03.279
<v Speaker 1>for the for this episode. And next week we will

1908
01:35:03.319 --> 01:35:12.039
<v Speaker 1>do the season finale where the change change. So so yeah,

1909
01:35:12.079 --> 01:35:13.600
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining us.

1910
01:35:14.199 --> 01:35:16.880
<v Speaker 2>If you like this podcast, you probably will like the reaction,

1911
01:35:16.920 --> 01:35:18.560
<v Speaker 2>which is up on YouTube.

1912
01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:19.359
<v Speaker 1>You can check that out.

1913
01:35:20.079 --> 01:35:23.000
<v Speaker 2>You can join our Patreon, you get early access, you

1914
01:35:23.039 --> 01:35:26.640
<v Speaker 2>can get unedited versions of the reactions. You can get

1915
01:35:27.079 --> 01:35:31.520
<v Speaker 2>sometimes some behind the scenes babbling on uh stuff.

1916
01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:35.520
<v Speaker 1>That we do as we are wont to do. And

1917
01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:39.079
<v Speaker 1>you can join the discord and it's super secret because

1918
01:35:39.079 --> 01:35:42.279
<v Speaker 1>there's super secret conversations there and because there's a super

1919
01:35:42.279 --> 01:35:44.840
<v Speaker 1>secret chet for patriots. That's why.

1920
01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Yeah, I think that's it. Like subscribe, rate review hype.

1921
01:35:50.880 --> 01:35:54.039
<v Speaker 2>I still don't know what hype has, no idea, I

1922
01:35:54.039 --> 01:35:54.359
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

1923
01:35:54.399 --> 01:35:59.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm assuming it's a good thing. So yeah, no idea.

1924
01:35:59.520 --> 01:36:01.520
<v Speaker 1>If it does, do you think, but do it and

1925
01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:18.640
<v Speaker 1>I yeah, we'll see you next time. Bye,