Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome. This is Seventh Sanctum and I'm Kerry Anne
and as usual, I'm joined with my co host this evening, Natalie.
How are you, Natalie, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not too bad.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Every time we record the podcast the moment it seems
to be windy and rainy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, it's on another windy and rainy night,
and I think, what a better Yeah, And I think, actually,
do you know what, considering the way our podcast is
going to go this evening with the guests that we
have with some storytelling, I think this might be because
some nice armbiance totally yeah, who knows, it might just
play into us a little bit, that's true. So with that,
i'd like to introduce Simon. Thank you so much for
joining us this evening.
Speaker 3: Simon, my absolute pleasure. It's a great pleasure to see
you both as well. Really is. Thank you.
Speaker 1: So whenever we invite guests onto our show, we always
love to learn a little bit about them and how
they got to where they are now, what they're doing,
and how their story began, which is I think would
be a great place to start this evening with your
story and how your story began to where you share
all your stories.
Speaker 3: Now very good. Well, I suppose. Really my story started
way back in nineteen ninety six. I had a wife,
two children, and a baby on the way, and I
work for the local authority and you should never ever
complain about being employed, but the wages were very, very bad,
and I had this idea of starting what's called the
ghost Walk in my hometown of Clithero And for the
first in my life, I found I was actually doing
a job which I really enjoyed. I got job satisfaction,
and what was so nice is when people said how
much they enjoyed the tour, and it seemed to snowball
from there. Really, after some six years, I left the
local authority and took a leap of faith and started
conducting guided coach tours, guided ghost walks, but also visiting schools.
I also wrote a book and did some local work
on local radio and local television, and really that's how
I started. But I found my inner self really through
that leap of faith. And I don't believe there's such
a thing as a boring person, as an unskilled person.
I think every human being on this planet has got
some form of skill, and my skill just seemed to
be the ghost walks and storytelling.
Speaker 1: Really, that's fantastic. It definitely sounds like you come into
your power when you found that and explored that part
of yourself. That's fantastic to hear. So when you first started,
when I think back to when I started doing paranorl researching,
this was ten years ago, and it was very sparse,
very undercover, wasn't very it wasn't very much in the mainstream.
So how did you find your first kind of well,
your leap of faith really in that storytelling. How did
you find you was being received by the people in
your local town.
Speaker 3: Was it was marvelous? Really, A little voice in the
back of my head said, Simon, you're actually doing a
job you enjoy and what's more, people actually enjoying going
on the tours. And I felt I could really just
be myself. When I left school at the age of fifteen,
had some very very boring jobs. I was in the
army for a while. I worked in a shoe factor
for a while. I worked in a washing machine factor
for a while, doing jobs which I wasn't very very happy.
And you could say that that famous word eching my
way through society, But that day in nineteen ninety six
when I took that very very first tour, I've found
my inner self and it's just snowballed from there. Really,
I'm the telephone never stops ringing. Nowadays, I have coached
companies from right across Great Britain that will contact me
and they'll come on the tours and I never tire
of it. I never tire of a tool. Really. Some
of the tours are paranormal, some are just historical. Some
are school visits where I mentioned heroes and villains. But
like everyone, I do enjoy the ghostly stories. They're the
ones I've found quite intriguing. Really, the very very first
toy I'd love to bring to attention if I could do,
would probably answer your questions really, and I can assure
you this is a very very true story and viewers
can find this on YouTube under my name Simon Ensil
and it's called the forty four million to one Against
We are going to turn the clock back to nineteen sixty.
I was just five years old, my mother and father.
They lived in Lancaster at the time, and my dad
had got a job as a personnel officer in Cumbria
South Lake and the English Lake District, and I remember
the Pickford's vehicle arriving. All the furniture go in the
back of this vehicle, or the tea chest full of crockery, etc.
And we set off in the Pickford's vehicle, my mum, Dad,
my brother and sister. We arrived at this really gorgeous house.
And it was a gorgeous building, a three stone limestone
building with its own grounds behind it. You can see
the lake district fells, you see the lakesvick Woods, Blenk
half of the Langdale Pikes, all this beautiful way right
scenes if you will. And I fell in love with
the house straight away. Now, my mum and dad they
made the beds very very quickly for my brother, sister
and I and we fell into sleep as kids do,
into a deep sleep. But Mum and Dad carried him
working til the early hours of the morning, unloading tea chests,
et cetera. And around one o'clock in the morning they thought, well,
we'll make our bed up and we'll turn in. Because
the house was a country house, the last thing they
needed to do was to put up any curtains. My
dad mentioned he climbed into bed and turned over, and bright,
bright moonlight seemed to fill the bedroom, lovely gorgeous silver moonlight.
As he turned over the second time, he heard tiny
footsteps commit the stairs towards the bedroom, and he thought
it was either my sister or myself. The door opened
and in came a liver and white Cocker Spaniel dog,
and he thought, how's that got in here? He got
out of bed. He walked across the room to get
the dog by the collar to take it downstairs and
put it out into the grounds. But as he attempted
to do this, his hand went straight through the collar.
He tried again, and his hand went through the dog
for the second time. The dog then turned and looked
at the window, the bedroom window, and then it just
literally faded away. My father was quite shocked. He'd seen
something very very paranormal. My mother had been in a
very deep sleep and she woke up with a jolts
and said, I've had a strange dream. There's a man
outside in Victorian clothing with a dog leader's hand pointing
up at the bedroom window. My mother told him what
had happened to her in her dream, and they put
two and two together. It had been some form of
par paranormal contact. Now I was five, my sister was two,
brother was ten, so they never told us until we
were all teenagers. But in that period of time I
really grew to love the house. I've been to parties there,
Christmas is there, went to the local primary school. From
there the local second in modern school, and I fell
in love with the house. In nineteen seventy three, my
dad sold the house and it broke my heart as
he locked the door for the last time and we
left this gorgeous location. However, this is where the story
takes on another very very spooky side. It would be
about ten years ago my wife and I went on
a Mediterranean cruise, absolutely loved it. Went to Gibraltar, to Cadiz,
to Venice, etc. And it was a lovely vessel called
the Oceana. Piano cruises had what's called the black tie
events and you'd wear dicky bowtie dinner jacket. I went
down to the restaurant, sat down, enjoyed a lovely meal,
but just two tables away there was a young lady
that kept looking at me, and I thought, I really
cannot be that good locking But as it happened, she
knew me she's called Louise, and Louise is still the
events manager on this vessel called the Oceana. She comes
from a village not too far from where I live
in Lancashire, Simon, isn't it so that's right. I've been
in your coach tours. I quite enjoy them. I like
the stories very much. Have you ever thought about doing
a PowerPoint show on a vessel like this? And I said, well,
would people like witches with the like, ghosts with the like? Murders,
heroes and villains? She said, you'd be very surprised, Simon.
I'm going to give you a email address when you
get back to England. And I said to my wife
it's very likely it might get a free cruise out
of this. So I got back home and I emailed
Piano and within three days ad got an audition. I
could go down to Suffolk or I could go to
Cumbria to be interviewed and auditioned. Of course, Cumbria is
so near to Lancashire, there was no option. I was
giving a telephone number and I telephoned a lady called
Maureen and she said, Simon, bring your laptop and I'll
audition you but we need six hours of material. So
if you get to my home at ten o'clock in
the morning in Cumbria, so that's no problem tool Really,
she said, my house is very hard to find. I said, well,
I know South Lake's quite well, said, you won't find
my house. It's a bit isolated. She gave me a
sat NAV code and I remember putting the sat NAV
code into my car setting off, going over the gorgeous
top of Bowland, a mountain range in Lancashire, down into
the city of Lancaster, and then turning right for the
Lake district. I went past my old primary school and
then passed my old second Modern school, up a beautiful
road through a forest, and then down the bottom the
road and turning left up a very very familiar driveway.
It was the house that my father had sold in
nineteen seventy three. When I got there, I stood in
awe and looked up at the three story limestone building.
Marian came to the door, Come on, Simon, we need
to get this audition done. You look a little bit
She said, Well, I know you won't believe this morning,
but I used to live here. Oh incredible, As it happened,
I did have some photographs of my laptop which confirmed
it for my childhood. She said, let's have a cup
of tea. I went into the front room, sat down
and admired the doorknobs, the fireplace, which I had last
seen as a fifteen year old boy. She then came
back with a tray of tea, milk and sugar in cups, etc.
And I mentioned my father's experience of the liver and
white cocker spaniel that first day when we arrived, Maureen
dropped the tray. I can still see that the tea
going across the carpet, the sugar and the milk and
broken saucer, and she gassed with breath. Oh some, that's amazing.
My brother lives in London and every Christmas he spends
Christmas with my husband and I. That very first Christmas
we moved in, he would have had what would have
been your mother and father's bedroom upstairs. He told us
on Christmas morning that in the early hours of the
morning the door opened and in came a liver and
white Cocker Spaniel dog. I looked at ceiling. My dad
had died way back in nineteen eighty two, and I said,
thank you, Dad. It's confirmed that ghosts really do exist,
and that I can assure you is a true story.
Speaker 2: Wow, that must have been like shocking when you were
like walked into that house and because you know, like
when you revisit your past anyway, it's very different. But
then to find that the same things as it has
happened as well, and in somewhere that you loved as well.
And she obviously looked after the house from what you've saying,
so you know you've come home but not come home
at the same time.
Speaker 3: It's amazing, Natal, I mean, I still think of the house.
I still have those lovely memories as a boy, and
I grew to love the building. I grew to love it,
and it's almost if the house wanted me back again. Yeah,
it's incredible. The Daily Mail got hold of the story,
and so did the local radio station as well, and
some I got a call from your university in the
chapter that the chaps that happening are forty four million
to one against. But if people who were watching, if
they want to, they can go into youtubeer but Simon
entlesol forty four million to one and you can see
the whole video of the house and the rooms and
indeed the story, but it is a very very true story.
As far as the audition went. It sounds great, doesn't
it really, But these cruisers are ideal if you're a
single person. I've got a loving wife actually, and I
did just the one which was a Norwegian tour, but
I was by myself and although there's lots of people
to talk to, it didn't feel right to be by
myself away from home in that predicament room.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing. And what we will
do is we will find that video ass and we'll
put that share that onto our group and our LA
page as well, so that people can go ahead and
watch that, and definitely will give that watch ourselves. So
that's really that's really interesting how almost things kind of
did a full circle from the first sever parental experience
into then bringing you in, especially into your storytelling and
sharing that more worldwide as well, which is fascinating. And
I do believe there's no such thing as coincidences. There
is consequences. I am aware of this, but maybe that's
a Freudian slip, I don't know, but coincidences, I don't
believe there's such thing as coincidences. So Yeah, it's fantastic.
Thank you so much for sharing that. We'll make sure
that we share that as well as the people that
watching listening.
Speaker 3: Actually, I still feel that the house hasn't finished with me.
I still feel that there's something in the post where
I might end up going back again.
Speaker 2: I just feel it. Really, Yeah, that's what I was
going to say. Actually, it's a funny thing about buildings.
It's like, because certain buildings do, even ones you don't
live in, will call you. It's like we lived in
a house when I was little and my mum said
that the house didn't like people leaving it and it
wanted to be occupied all the time. And it's like
I did a ghost I didn't do a ghost on
I did a tour at the Galleries of Justice in
Nottingham and it's in the my mind ever since then.
That place just you can feel it calling you, carn't
you all the time. It's like this sort of like
I don't know it. It's strange how places have that
effect on people and houses and it's almost like some
of them have more more of a I don't know,
don't once he is we're consciousness, but sort of spirit
of place to them, you know, than others. Some places
are just buildings, but other places always seem to have
this thing to them. Yes, right, they're alive.
Speaker 3: Almost very much. So that's a very app description, I think,
a very app description, definitely.
Speaker 2: So what made you decide to do the ghost walk?
Why pick ghosts in the first place rather than just
like a historic type walk around your area. What made
you decide to do that?
Speaker 3: Then? Really natally, it would be my dad, because my
dad told me the story, and he was a man
who wouldn't lie about anything. He didn't need to, he
didn't need to invent the story, and it still fascinates me.
In fact, I would love to go back to the house.
And I mean I'm not a medium, I'm not a psychic,
and I know quite a people who are, and it'd
be really nice to have a bit of a seance
in room, just to see if the dog would appear.
That would be something which I would find absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 1: I think as well, when you think a little bit
about the psychic link, it could be that you could
conduct a seance whilst not being in the building. There
is where being able to remote view and to link
in that way. So who knows what the potential could be,
but absolutely an evening of connection spirit connection would be
fascinating to see what does come up.
Speaker 3: I was looking the internet recently and the house is
actually up for sale. It is out of my price range.
I would love to buy it, I really really would
love to buy it, but it's well out of my
price range. I'm afraid.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's strange though, isn't it. How kind of life
will in twine? We never say never, We don't know
what the future may hold, never say never. But that
would be really interesting. Yeah, fantastic. Okay, So when we
think with some of the stories that you share from
your local area, what is the most fascinating story that
isn't as well known as others may be?
Speaker 3: Well, I found when I started my guided tours, I
like eye witness accounts like my dad's story. There really
and you can always tell when someone is pulling your leg,
you can always tell when someone's fabricating a story. You
can always tell when someone's very, very honest. And I
met a marvelous chap from the town of Darwin, which
is quite near Blackburn in Lancashire, and through the tourism association,
I met him lovely guided tour too, called Bill Morris,
and we went to the local Witherspoons, had a pint
and a pie together, had a good chat and he said, Simon,
the story I'm going to tell you is quite intriguing, really,
he said, I was born by the railway, the East
Lancashire Railway, and my mum and dad had a vegefoot
patch right next to the railway line where there was
a fence, and we'd dig at the potatoes, the carrots
and the spinach and watch the steam engines go by.
And I told my mum and dad when I left school,
I'd like to work in the railway. And he left
school at fourteen and got a job on what's called
the East Lancashire Railway, linking the city of Carlisle with
the city of Manchester, and as the trains went by,
he would tap the wheels and make sure they weren't damaged.
He then got a job as a fireman on a
steam engine, and then just after his twenty first birthday,
he got the job off his dreams, every little boy's dream,
a steam engine locomotive driver, and he would take the
engine up to the city of Edinburgh bring it down
through Carlisle, right down towards Manchester, and when he went
past his mum and dad's house, he'd pull the whistle.
It was like a and his mum and dad would
go rushing down to waive at him as a train
went past. He said. In the summer of nineteen sixty two,
he took the engine down the line, and in between
Manchester and Darwin, you'll find a beautiful tunnel, a very
long tunnel. On either side of the tunnel are these
really large open green fields full of cattle and sheep.
As he took the train down the line, he noticed
sitting on the fence very near the tunnel entrance, a
little boy with straw colored hair, and the little boy
started to waving. Of course, Bill, having once been a
little boy himself, would wave back, and the little boy
was always there, always the same time, for the next
five weeks. However, in October of that year, he took
the engine down the line and noticed for the very
first time the straw colored haired boy was not sitting
on the fence, but he was standing in the field
next to the tunnel entrance, surrounded by sleeping sheep. As
the train came down the line. The little boy looked
up and ran towards the fence to waive at Bill
and the fireman. But Bill noted the little boy was
actually running through sleeping sheep. The sheep didn't even know
he was there. He elbowed the farmer. Look at that,
Look at that? Sorry mate, too busy shoveling, came the reply.
They went into the tunnel down to Manchester and went
to the Buffy bar at their Victoria station, Manchester, and
the fireman said, Bill, you've been very very quiet. Bill,
what's the problem. Well, it really worries me. You know
that young lad with a straw colored hair who sits
on the fence near the tunnel entrance. Oh, yes, he
wasn't there today. He was in the field soon rand
by sheep and cattle. And when he saw he started
to run towards the fence. And I saw him running
through sleeping sheep. No, no, no, said the fireman, No, no, no,
you're seeing things Bill. They changed the freight over and
came back up north. As the train was about to
enter the tunnel from the Manchester side, Bill noted a
red light. He slowed the steam engine down and there
in the tunnel entrance was a police sergeant holding up
a large red lantern. But what's wrong, sergeant, shouted Bill. Oh, terrible,
there's been a young lad killed. It entered the tunnel. Oh, sergeant,
that's terrible. Ay it is he lost his brother there
five years ago. Oh, sergeant, that is heartbreaking. Ay, we've
just been to see the parents. It wasn't pleasant. No, no, no,
it wouldn't be, said Bill. Word filtered through the tunnel.
They could take the engine through it. As Bill brought
the steam locomotive down the length of tunnel, it's emerged
into bright, bright sunlight, and Bill glanced the left and
saw the straw colored haired boy hold in the hand
of a much taller boy. As Bill turned away with them,
they rose their hands and both faded into thin air.
On Bill's neck rose as he held with the farm
of the second time. Look at that, sorry mate, two
bus he's shoveling, came the reply. Bill never saw them again.
We can always tell when someone's been very honest and
very truthful. And of course I did look into the
history of the East Langshire Railway and they were two
brothers that were killed five years apart at the tunnel
entrance it seems that Bill really did see something very
very paranormal, a very touching story, but also a very
true eye witness account, which I find make the best stories,
they really do.
Speaker 2: Wow. The consistency of him seeing the boy as well,
it's sort of like it's it was the boy the
one that had been killed originally that was waiting for
his brother, do you think, or it.
Speaker 3: Was the straw cold haired boy that was killed the
second time his brother he'd been killed five years pre
But there was obviously a link between the two of them,
really and obviously link and but a tragic story, but
also a very very true story.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And I think when we think about winness statements and
how we can validate them through different ways, it's always
amazing when we have these experiences firsthand, but actually when
there's other sources as well that can validate that as
much as this is a really touch in the moving story,
but that experience with himself is very profound, and the
fact that that would have been pivotal in that person's
like man's life, but being able to then validate that
and explore that historically as well, just gives it another layer,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3: Very very much, very much so, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. That's really interesting and I
think I also really enjoy the stories that are first
hand experienced, but especially when it comes to the paranormal,
because you do get an e gauge of a person's
kind of authenticity in the way that they share and speak.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: So when is that with that within your local area?
A little bit further.
Speaker 3: Out, Well, what actually happened when I started the tours,
all the local councils got in contact with me, and
in the nineteen nineties councils had what's called tourism officers,
and I got invited to all the local councils in
the in the Greater Manster area, in the Cumbria, in
the Yorkshire areas, and I was invited to conduct guided
tours in all those locations. But the councils in those
days were very helpful and they'd even sell tickets for
you and even promote them for you. But because of
government cutbacks, all the tourism officers have gone. Councils looked
on that as the first people to cut but that
was through black men with Darwin Council and a lovely
lady called and I went to the local library with
her and we looked at some stories and she said
she'd like me to conduct this tour but with heroes
and with villains as well, really to make it a
bit more exciting.
Speaker 1: Really, Okay, So thinking a bit about the villain stories,
have you got a villain story that you'd like to
share from that area?
Speaker 3: I have. It's not a very pleasant story, but there's
a big twist at the end of it, a really
big twist at the end of it, involving Madame two swords.
But we are going to turn the clock back in
time and people say the good old days, I don't
think they were. I think they're just as bad as
they were nowadays. Really, But we are going to go
to Blackburn Town Center eighteen seventy five and the story
of a young lady called Emily Holland. Emily is nine.
She's walking home through the center of Blackman with her
two brothers. As they make the way past a old
hotel which is still there to this very day, called
the Wheat Sheaf. She just disappeared her brother's card and
walking turned around, where's Emily gone to? She must have
run ahead of us when they got home. Emily wasn't there,
and mother and father were distraught. What do it mean
she disappeared? You should have stayed with her, Well, she
just disappeared. How can anyone disappear? They ran down to
the police station in Blackburn. There they met Inspector Potts,
Inspector Eastwood and Detective lives In and they said, don't worry,
she's probably just gone somewhere else. But they searched the
whole town for seven days and seven nights, and this
was getting quite concerning for the mother and father. As
you can imagine. On the eighth day, a gentleman comes
to Peter Thairdcloff took his dog for a walk in
the local park and the dog came out of the
park with some newspaper in its mouth, saturated in blood.
Faired to have said, get that out your mouth. He
pulled the newspaper, tore it from the creature's jaws, and
out came a child's hand. Eastwood and Potts were alerted
immediately and they ascertained that the hand belonged to nine
year old Emily Holland. An hour later, missus White from
North Blackman was walking to work and she tripped her
with some more newspapers heavily stained in blood. She picked
up the newspaper, which was quite heavy, and opened it
and was horrified to see the torso of a child.
She was violently sick. Eastward, Pots and Livesey of Blackman
police arrived and they took the remains back to the
moor tree. That's when Inspector Eastwood looked inside the newspaper
and saw lots of human hair belonging to different human beings.
He said, I've got it. Whoever committed this despicable act
on this nine year old girl was a barber. A
barber is the man we need to be looking for now.
Blackburn at that period of time was a very large
textile town and they had lots and lots of barbers.
In fact, thirty two individual barber shops. Would you believe
they checked every single one of them out, one of
them being a shop owned by a chap calls the
William Fish. William Fish was twenty five years old, had
a wife and two daughters, and was considered to be
quite a civilized gentleman. As Eastwood and Pops and Livesy
went into the shop, they saw a huge pile of
the local newspapers which was indeed the Blackburn Herald. Potts
took his pad out. He had made a note of
all the numbers and all the dates on the newspaper
where the poor girl's organs were installed, and that paper
was missing. It was the fish where's last week's herald newspaper? Oh?
I used this morning, sir to light the fire. And
they accepted his story. Remember his twenty five, a father
of two daughters and considered to be quite a nice person. Really.
The officers went back to the police station, and they
went to their office, and they looked out of the
window and they could see a billboard on the other
side of the street with the words Blackburn police incompetence,
Blackman police no nearer to catching maniac. This upset them,
but they couldn't get any lead whatsoever. There was no leads.
A week past, another week past, and no arrest, and
the billboards outside the police station were getting very very nasty.
Blackman police not worth the weight payers money in competence.
That's when a local mill owner called mister William Hornby
put up one hundred pounds to anyone who could find
the murderer, and also the Home Office in London were
getting very very concerned because this was a particularly nasty,
nasty murder and they wanted to catch this person before
he reoffended. So two hundred pounds to catch the offender.
Who should pick up the gauntlets? But a thirteen year
old boy from the city of Preston called Peter Levine,
and Peter wrote to Blackburn police, Sir, I've got a
little dog is called Morgan. He'll find your murderer. Eastwood,
Pots and Livesey had a good laugh, but they looked
out of the window. So the billboard that morning was
extremely critical of all three of them because no arrest
had been done, and said, look this young lad, let's
let's go and meet him. They arranged to meet him
at railway station in Blackburn, and he had this little
dog called Morgan, which was shivering with the cold, a
little lurcher colleague cross shivering with the cold on the platform,
and he said, Sir, my dog just needs to get
a cent from the newspapers that this poor girl's body
was put in and he'll find a murderer. Okay, said Eastwood.
We'll try it, We'll try it. They went to the
Moortree they brought the remains of poor Emily's torso and
her hand out, and the dog started to bark hysterically.
He said, sir, my dog, it's got a cent. They
opened the mortary door. The dog ran into the center
of Blackman, followed by the three officers and young Peter.
They went to Darwin Street, through King Street, through the
center of Blackman and straight to William Fish's barber's shop.
Behind the frosty glass in the window was a rather
frosty looking William Fish. As he saw the three officers
and the dog scratching at the door, he opened the door.
The dog went through his legs straight to the front
room and started barking up the chimney. Peteried, sir, me
dog knows this. Someone took that chimney, Sir right, arrest
Fish eastward, handcuffed him and fought into the floor, whilst
Inspector Potts knelt down and reached behind the chimney breast
and found some more newspaper. He opened the newspaper and
found the charred remains of poor Emily's dress, the dress
she'd been wearing that day. Now, in those days, the
police will allowed to be a lot more persuasive than
they are nowadays, and they gave Fish a really good hiding.
In fact, you could say they assaulted him. He was
then dragged down the police station black and blue and
then sent straight to Liverpool for trial. At the trial
he admitted to drinking very, very heavily on the day
of the murder. When this nine year old girl, a
nine year old girl went past him, he grabbed her.
He committed a despicable act and this young girl horrified
what he'd done. He thought, I can't let her go.
He strangled her and as Inspector Eastwood quite rightly ascertained.
He took the body to the barbershop and dissected the
body on the barbershop floor, and of course there's lots
of human hair on the floor at the same time.
And Eastwood was quite right. He was found guilty of
her murder and was hung on the twenty second of
November eighteen seventy five. Now he was hung by a
gentleman comes to William Marlwood, who was called the gentleman hangman,
who would look at the weight of a human being
and the necessary drop to break the neck cleaning, and
he gave Fish a much more humane death than poor
Emily all those years ago. The one thing William Fish
did become was the very very first Lancashire man ever
to be made and Madame two Swords waxwork dummy and
was in Madam two Swords from eighteen seventy five to
nineteen o five and was called simply the Blackburn Butcher.
A terrible story but also a very very true story.
As for young Peter, he was only a thirteen year
old boy. Did he get the two hundred pounds His
mum and dad did, And by the time he was eighteen,
they'd spent every single penny, so he never saw a
penny of the reward money. A great story.
Speaker 2: Bless him. I think the dogs should have got the
reward money.
Speaker 3: I agree. Really he should have had a new collar,
shouldn't he.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: That's really sad that his parents spent it or hasn't
even given him.
Speaker 1: A little bit of it.
Speaker 3: That's until he was eighteen, it had all gone.
Speaker 2: Natalie, Yes, oh gosh, I could do you know. We
interviewed someone not that long ago who was an ex
detective and he said that the thing with a lot
of murderers and killers and things are that they seem
so normal you know, and like you say, there very
often very respectable seem to be nice people with families
and high in the social and it's like that kind
of illustrates it. But he also said like that, very often,
like we catchy murderers a lot of it, it's like
random coincidences. Like you say, what would have happened if
that kid with the dog hadn't had tried and they
hadn't allowed it. I mean, nowadays they wouldn't have allowed
a thirteen year old to try and find a murderer,
but they needed it as well. I mean, he could
have gone off scott free, and like you say, reoffended.
Next time he drank heavily, and if it wasn't for
that dog and that kid, he it would have taken them.
The minia might still have found him, but it would
have taken him longer. And it's like, it's funny how
these little coincidences and things add up, isn't it to
get people caught as well?
Speaker 3: But yeah, and one of my soores, I took a
tour into Blackburn and the Heroes and Villain's Tour, and
I do mention that story of course from the old
wheat sheep where it's a lovely old Victorian public house actually,
and the stable block is still there where where Fish
committed this table act. But over the use there's been
stories of the sound of a little girl screaming or
crying that has come from there, and it breaks my
heart to think how she lost her life, you know.
I mean they do say the good old days, I
don't think they were really. And I was watching the
news tonight there's a case of a chap who deliberately
stabbed two people in Brighton on the beach deliberately, And
then you look at that terrible case of the Pakistani
father who tortured his own daughter to death. I mean,
nothing's changed, has it, really? But as just say, these
people look normal but so very very dangerous, very very dangerous.
Speaker 2: And like you say, it's very often it's triggers things
that trigger them, so they can sort of like say,
if he never drank, he probably never would have gone
over that line. But there's certain triggers that sort of
what's it tipped them over into crime. So you know,
if he'd been a sober, sort of god fearing man,
he may never have been in a situation that would
have triggered that that action as well. It's very specific.
It's it is sad. It's sad when you think about it,
And like you say, I don't think it's any different
now than it was even thousands of years ago. I
remember reading stories about the vikings and things, and like
you say, people would behave in the same len as
they do now. It's just in a different social context.
Speaker 3: But when you think of it, alcohol is a very
very dangerous drug, isn't it. Yeah, I love a pint,
I do. I do love a pint. But you can
guarantee this Christmas Eve someone will go over the top
of the Christmas party or get a bit violent by
drinking too much, et cetera. But I'm sure if alcohol
was invented tomorrow, it'd be a class A drug, probably banned, most.
Speaker 1: Likely, absolutely, And I have tried to do that. When
we have the the ambitions and prohibitions, that's its time,
thank you. Yeah, We've had prohibitions throughout history, and I
think that, yeah, it can. It acts as a lethal ingredients.
Sometimes when you've got the perfect storm, we call it
the perfect song. When Natalie said that we had interviewed
the police officer we were talking about, he was one
of the arrest well, he was one of the investigators
for the John Wayne Casey case in America, and we
were talking about how crazen he was when it comes
to the things, the things that he would do, like
he would have the John Wayne Gacy would have politicians
at his house, but then also leave guns around. So
it kind of like thought. It is very strange, I
suppose if you haven't got that mindset, it's it's very
hard to understand that mindset. But yeah, that's that's Thank
you so much for sharing that story. And I think
you mentioned Christmas Eve, and we're coming close to the
end of the show now, so one of the things
that we thought might be really nice if we could
hear one of your Christmas maybe spooky stories that you
might have.
Speaker 3: Very much so, Natalte. So it's a beautiful story. It
would be much Twenty years ago, the meta chup called
Billy Laiken came to my house. I made him a
cup of coffee and he knew that I like ghost stories,
and he told me a beautiful one. Actually, he reached
into his pocket and produced a photograph of fifty seven
young men outside the parish church office in Clithero and
on the back of the photograph was Evans's name Clithero
Territorial Army. September nineteen thirty nine, when Great Britain and
the conword declared warn next to Germany, he said, the
photograph was taken. They were then sent to the Magino
Line in France, and the friend said the Germans will
never get through here. And there Tendency walked up and
down the Magineo line, saw no action whatsoever. But it's
all changed in the tenth of May nineteen forty when
the Germans laws we were now called Blitzkrieg. He found
himself on the beats of Dunkirk, absolutely shattered. He had
worn the leather off his boots from the march from
the Magino Line to Dunkirk. He was starving and he
was also really tired. He took his tin helmet off
and dug trench in the side of a sand dune
and lay inside the sand dune. In the meantime, the
German Air Force are strapping the beaches, and Corpora wakes
him up and says, look, we're being evacuated at four
o'clock this afternoon by an operation called Dynamo. The Royal
Navy going to take us off the beaches. He got
down to the beach and a German aircraft came down
the beach open fire. He dived under the water. When
he came to the surface, the sea was red with
the blood of his mates. He then felt a hand
grab his battle dressed tunic. He was pulled into a
small row boat, rode out to a Royal Naval destroyer
and had the finest meal he's ever had, the first
food in seven days, a corned beef sandwich, a mug
of tea and a delicious woodbine cigarette. He got to
Dover and then told just go back to the Battanion headquarters.
In his case, that would be Clithero, who remember getting
a train from Dover to London, London to the city
of Preston and then the little branch line that took
him to Clithero. When he got to Clithero, he opened
the carriage door and he literally kissed the platform. He
then made his way straight to the parish church office.
As he opened the door, out of the fifty seven
young men on the photograph, only nineteen had got back,
who were told down then to make up the numbers. Now,
in those days, if you were eighteen, you were conscripted.
If you were seventeen you could join up. You had
to have your mum and dad's consent. Now Bill was nineteen.
He had a young friend who was seventeen, and this
young lad said, oh, Bill, go and see me. Mum
and dad, I want to fight me country, Bill said.
The young boy's parents. They said, I'm sorry, he's our
only son and the walker be oba necture. Anyway, Oh please, please, Dad,
want to fight for me country. They gave him on
one condition that Bill would look after him like a brother,
and he saw he would do so. They signed the
consent forms and the young boy joined the cly R
Territorial Detachment, who were then sent overseas to the beautiful
Greek island of Crete to make up the garrison there,
along with the Australian and New Zealand Armed Forces. On
the twenty first of May nineteen forty one, the Germans
launched a highly disciplined airborne invasion of the island of Crete.
The fighting was ferocious. The Britishness and ANZAC forces nearly
turned it around, but the Germans had superior equipment, total
air cover and in the fighting. The detachment lost fourteen
men killed, one of them being the seventeen year old
young boy. Bill was absolutely heartbroken at this young boy's
death and blamed himself entirely from his pow camp in
Poland for the Red Cross. He would write letters frequently
backed this young boy's mother and father, just simply saying, please,
please forgive me. They wrote back, and they said, we
don't personally wholly responsible for the day of our son,
but Bill did. He was repatriated in nineteen forty five,
got a job in a local factory, but was never
ever the same man. Never smiled, never talked, never joked,
was always almost like a permanent daydream. This young boy's
death affect them very badly. However, things were going to change.
On the twenty fourth of December nineteen sixty eight Christmas Eve,
when he went to the parish church office to watch
the Clithero Amateur operat Excitists Christmas Plate the same building
where the photograph was taken in nineteen thirty nine. He
left the building at the end of the show and
lit a cigarettes. As he smoked the cigarette, he looked
at the wall where the photograph was taken in nineteen
thirty nine. Took a deep sigh, exhumusated cigarette with his foot,
and then walked in front of the building. Then turned
left down a little gimmel, a little snikelway, if you will,
that would take him onto a a little street called
York Street. As he turned down the cobblestone gimmel, he
heard three whispers. Hey Bill, Hey Bill, Hey Billy. He
turned round and saw the ghost of the young boy
in British Army uniform. And the first thing Bill noted
was this young lad had an aged the day he
looked exactly and he had an uncreat in nineteen forty one.
The boy rose his arm, A Bill, Bill, don't worry
about me. Bill, don't worry Bill. I'm fine. I've always
been fine with that. Billy's knees gave way. He knelt
on the cobblestones that Christmas Eve, and he told me, Simon,
I bellowed like a wounded animal. I was yelked in pain.
The tears streamed down my cheeks. I was yelked in pain.
I looked up. The boy turned, smiled and vaporized. It
took Bill thirty minutes half an hour to get to
his feet. He just knelt there in pain, emotional pain.
He got to his feet. He walked home that Christmas Eve,
past the happy Christmas revelers. The last thing he felt
was celebrating anything. He'd seen something very, very, very paranormal.
He got home and quite surprisingly, he fell into a
deep sleep. The following morning, Christmas Day, nineteen sixty eight,
he was woken by the church bells of Saint Mary's,
Saint Paul's, and Saint James. He got out of bed,
feeling totally different. He made his way to the bathroom,
opened the bathroom door and caught his reflection in the
shaving mirror. He noticed a change in his facial appearance.
He noted, for the first time since nineteen forty one,
he was actually smiling, and he felt had been truly
forgiven for the death of this young boy all those
years ago. I never forget Bill's words as he left
my house that day, said Simon. I never believed in
ghosts until I saw one with my own eyes. Billy
died when a good fifteen sixteen years ago. Because I
knew him, I went to his funeral. I then went
to the interment at the cemetery, and by his grave
were two elderly gentlemen. I had a diplomatic talk with
both of them and they said, oh yes, we all
got captured together on crete. I mentioned that the young boy,
Oh yes, said one of them, Billy was looking after him.
He sent him back to the ammunition truck that had
a metal tailgate that would give him some protection, but
a German sniper caught him an open ground. And of
course every November we think of, well, these lads who
lost their lives, we buy poppies. I always think of
those two really, but a very very touching story. My
wife and I did go to Cretes, oh some six
years ago, and I went to the a Bay Military Cemetery.
And what I found particularly touching the two guys that
looked after the cemetery. They knew every single gravestone, and
they knew edwe's name, and they took it to this
young boy's grave, John Hudson, seventeen years of age. And
I for the Royal British Legion in Clithero. I left
a poppy there for him on behalf of the people
of Clithero, which of course was quite touching really, but
a great story in itself.
Speaker 1: If you will, thank you so much. Thank you for
sharing that.
Speaker 3: It's very much the story, isn't it.
Speaker 2: I was going to say it's funny, like a lot
of people say that about ghosts. I don't believe in
them until I saw one. Well, it's really nice that
that helped him move on, because I mean, he could
have lived the rest of his life like that. And
the fact that the spirit actually came and told him
it was okay is actually really touching. That he didn't
like very much, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Very much, because he'd been grieving for so long, exactly
for so long, and he said that it was almost
the boy hadn't aged a day. He looked exactly as
he had them in nineteen forty one, standing in the
gunnel there, and he said, don't worry about me. I'm fine.
I've always been fine.
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder, actually, if he came through him
at his funeral, you know, like when he reunited with
him both once they both yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd like to think so, nut, I'd like to
think so. I really would like to think. So. That's
quite beautiful.
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, yeah, yeah, it's a nice thought. I hope
they did.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, thanks, yeah, thank you so much for sharing
that story. And that is a that is a very
beautiful story too, because when we think a little bit
about Christmas, we are really aware of those that aren't
around our table, and we are faced more with that
when we have those moments, especially around Christmas. So to
have that closure given in such a beautiful way, I
think it's a really lovely sentiment. Thank you for sharing
that well that it is a really good place for
us to kind of bring our podcast to an end
this evening. It's been so good to share this with you.
If for anyone that would like to find more about you,
how can they find you? And what have you got
coming up next?
Speaker 3: Right? Well, I've got a very very exciting project with
a general called Daniel Ross, and it's called the Haunted Project,
and this is actually on Pendall Hill. They have an
exclusive location in the very very heart of the Pendle
Witch story, which is the most famous witch trials in
Great British history. I'm heavily involved in that project, which
will be taking people around all the villages but also
telling the story and they will handle the power normal's side.
But I'm looking forward to that very very much. Indeed,
I do have a book out on Amazon called Ghost
details are the unexpected and some of the stories you've
heard tonight are actually in the book but on YouTube
under Simon Entwisol Tales from the Graves. There's a lot
of material there, including the forty four million to one story,
which is quite unique.
Speaker 1: Really, okay, we'll make sure that we share that out
as well, so people and a very interesting project coming
up to it was that with Danny Moss.
Speaker 3: Is that that's the one Danny Moss? Yes, yeah, he
has my Hanted Hotel project which is very very popular,
but he's actually got an exclusive location. It's a farmhouse
on the side of Pendle Hill, which is right in
between New Church and Barley and Black Oat and down it.
He could not have got a better location. He's got
it exclusive rights to use the cottage and has asked
me to go there with groups and tell them the
whole story of the Pendle Witches and then they will investigate.
So I'm looking forward to that very very much indeed,
and it will be on Amazon Prime and there's a
lot of international interest in that story there really really is.
So I'm looking forward to getting involved in that.
Speaker 2: Really, will you get to dress up when you do that?
Will you get to dress up because I.
Speaker 3: I for the ghost walks, I definitely wear Victorian frock
coats and the top hat, which I do enjoy. I
enjoy that very much. But I think for the paranormal side,
I tend to be well just dressing normal clothing really,
but I do tours of local halls and I do
tend to wear Victorian clothing for that. Really, I think
the Victorian period with a guard's ghost to it is superb.
And only yesterday I was invited to a local college
to go on the stage where they put a desk
and a candle and to quite a large audience for
kids and teachers, I brought the Christmas Carol to life
and that's one of the greatest ghost stories in British
history and really brings up the best of Charles Dickens.
Speaker 1: Really, that's fantastic. Yeah, absolutely, And I think when we
think a little bit about the paranormal the Victorian era,
we think about the Foxes, when we think about in
America the Fox's sisters, and then what that looked like
for us, When we think a little bit about the
British history of mediumship, I think the Victorian area has
a lot to kind of set the corner stones really
for parapsychology and for physical mediumship as well transfiguration and whatnot. Yeah, yeah,
I think my most favorite, my most Next year, I'm hoping, well,
what I'm planning to do is the Conductor, a Victorian
style investigation within a beautiful manor house. We've just been
given the okay to be able to do it. So yeah,
so that's something that I'll keep you updated with Simon.
Speaker 3: That sounds great, it really does. That sounds lovely. I
can imagine every room will have a different story, every
room the story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I've got some videos so I'll send
them marry to you. But that's the building itself is
absolutely stunning. But yes, thank you, Thank you so much
for your time. Thank you for joining us this evening.
It's been really lovely to hear your stories. We'll link
your YouTube channel and anything that we see you have
coming up for some of our listeners and watchers to
have a look look at themselves. But with that, I
just want to say thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: The pleasure has been all mine. I really have enjoyed.
It's been a pleasure meeting you both. It really has
Thank you for kindly having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, and I hope you enjoy your
well earned Christmas break and also just want to just
wish happy holidays and a merry Christmas to everyone that's
watching and listening, and we will see you in twenty
twenty five. Twenty twenty five, How quick has that gone.
Speaker 2: It's frightening, isn't it. It's king to.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so good night everyone, and thank you so much
for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much