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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome. This is Seventh Sanctum and I'm Kerry Anne

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and as usual, I'm joined with my co host this evening, Natalie.

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How are you, Natalie, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not too bad.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Every time we record the podcast the moment it seems

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to be windy and rainy.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, it's on another windy and rainy night,

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and I think, what a better Yeah, And I think, actually,

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do you know what, considering the way our podcast is

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going to go this evening with the guests that we

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have with some storytelling, I think this might be because

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some nice armbiance totally yeah, who knows, it might just

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play into us a little bit, that's true. So with that,

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i'd like to introduce Simon. Thank you so much for

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joining us this evening.

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Speaker 3: Simon, my absolute pleasure. It's a great pleasure to see

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you both as well. Really is. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So whenever we invite guests onto our show, we always

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love to learn a little bit about them and how

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they got to where they are now, what they're doing,

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and how their story began, which is I think would

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be a great place to start this evening with your

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story and how your story began to where you share

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all your stories.

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Speaker 3: Now very good. Well, I suppose. Really my story started

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way back in nineteen ninety six. I had a wife,

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two children, and a baby on the way, and I

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work for the local authority and you should never ever

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complain about being employed, but the wages were very, very bad,

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and I had this idea of starting what's called the

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ghost Walk in my hometown of Clithero And for the

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first in my life, I found I was actually doing

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a job which I really enjoyed. I got job satisfaction,

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and what was so nice is when people said how

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much they enjoyed the tour, and it seemed to snowball

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from there. Really, after some six years, I left the

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local authority and took a leap of faith and started

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conducting guided coach tours, guided ghost walks, but also visiting schools.

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I also wrote a book and did some local work

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on local radio and local television, and really that's how

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I started. But I found my inner self really through

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that leap of faith. And I don't believe there's such

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a thing as a boring person, as an unskilled person.

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I think every human being on this planet has got

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some form of skill, and my skill just seemed to

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be the ghost walks and storytelling.

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Speaker 1: Really, that's fantastic. It definitely sounds like you come into

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your power when you found that and explored that part

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of yourself. That's fantastic to hear. So when you first started,

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when I think back to when I started doing paranorl researching,

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this was ten years ago, and it was very sparse,

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very undercover, wasn't very it wasn't very much in the mainstream.

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So how did you find your first kind of well,

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your leap of faith really in that storytelling. How did

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you find you was being received by the people in

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your local town.

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Speaker 3: Was it was marvelous? Really, A little voice in the

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back of my head said, Simon, you're actually doing a

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job you enjoy and what's more, people actually enjoying going

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on the tours. And I felt I could really just

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be myself. When I left school at the age of fifteen,

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had some very very boring jobs. I was in the

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army for a while. I worked in a shoe factor

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for a while. I worked in a washing machine factor

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for a while, doing jobs which I wasn't very very happy.

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And you could say that that famous word eching my

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way through society, But that day in nineteen ninety six

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when I took that very very first tour, I've found

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my inner self and it's just snowballed from there. Really,

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I'm the telephone never stops ringing. Nowadays, I have coached

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companies from right across Great Britain that will contact me

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and they'll come on the tours and I never tire

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of it. I never tire of a tool. Really. Some

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of the tours are paranormal, some are just historical. Some

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are school visits where I mentioned heroes and villains. But

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like everyone, I do enjoy the ghostly stories. They're the

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ones I've found quite intriguing. Really, the very very first

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toy I'd love to bring to attention if I could do,

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would probably answer your questions really, and I can assure

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you this is a very very true story and viewers

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can find this on YouTube under my name Simon Ensil

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and it's called the forty four million to one Against

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We are going to turn the clock back to nineteen sixty.

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I was just five years old, my mother and father.

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They lived in Lancaster at the time, and my dad

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had got a job as a personnel officer in Cumbria

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South Lake and the English Lake District, and I remember

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the Pickford's vehicle arriving. All the furniture go in the

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back of this vehicle, or the tea chest full of crockery, etc.

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And we set off in the Pickford's vehicle, my mum, Dad,

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my brother and sister. We arrived at this really gorgeous house.

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And it was a gorgeous building, a three stone limestone

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building with its own grounds behind it. You can see

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the lake district fells, you see the lakesvick Woods, Blenk

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half of the Langdale Pikes, all this beautiful way right

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scenes if you will. And I fell in love with

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the house straight away. Now, my mum and dad they

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made the beds very very quickly for my brother, sister

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and I and we fell into sleep as kids do,

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into a deep sleep. But Mum and Dad carried him

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working til the early hours of the morning, unloading tea chests,

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et cetera. And around one o'clock in the morning they thought, well,

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we'll make our bed up and we'll turn in. Because

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the house was a country house, the last thing they

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needed to do was to put up any curtains. My

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dad mentioned he climbed into bed and turned over, and bright,

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bright moonlight seemed to fill the bedroom, lovely gorgeous silver moonlight.

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As he turned over the second time, he heard tiny

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footsteps commit the stairs towards the bedroom, and he thought

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it was either my sister or myself. The door opened

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and in came a liver and white Cocker Spaniel dog,

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and he thought, how's that got in here? He got

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out of bed. He walked across the room to get

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the dog by the collar to take it downstairs and

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put it out into the grounds. But as he attempted

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to do this, his hand went straight through the collar.

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He tried again, and his hand went through the dog

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for the second time. The dog then turned and looked

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at the window, the bedroom window, and then it just

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literally faded away. My father was quite shocked. He'd seen

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something very very paranormal. My mother had been in a

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very deep sleep and she woke up with a jolts

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and said, I've had a strange dream. There's a man

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outside in Victorian clothing with a dog leader's hand pointing

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up at the bedroom window. My mother told him what

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had happened to her in her dream, and they put

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two and two together. It had been some form of

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par paranormal contact. Now I was five, my sister was two,

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brother was ten, so they never told us until we

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were all teenagers. But in that period of time I

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really grew to love the house. I've been to parties there,

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Christmas is there, went to the local primary school. From

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there the local second in modern school, and I fell

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in love with the house. In nineteen seventy three, my

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dad sold the house and it broke my heart as

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he locked the door for the last time and we

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left this gorgeous location. However, this is where the story

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takes on another very very spooky side. It would be

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about ten years ago my wife and I went on

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a Mediterranean cruise, absolutely loved it. Went to Gibraltar, to Cadiz,

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to Venice, etc. And it was a lovely vessel called

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the Oceana. Piano cruises had what's called the black tie

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events and you'd wear dicky bowtie dinner jacket. I went

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down to the restaurant, sat down, enjoyed a lovely meal,

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but just two tables away there was a young lady

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that kept looking at me, and I thought, I really

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cannot be that good locking But as it happened, she

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knew me she's called Louise, and Louise is still the

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events manager on this vessel called the Oceana. She comes

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from a village not too far from where I live

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in Lancashire, Simon, isn't it so that's right. I've been

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in your coach tours. I quite enjoy them. I like

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the stories very much. Have you ever thought about doing

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a PowerPoint show on a vessel like this? And I said, well,

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would people like witches with the like, ghosts with the like? Murders,

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heroes and villains? She said, you'd be very surprised, Simon.

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I'm going to give you a email address when you

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get back to England. And I said to my wife

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it's very likely it might get a free cruise out

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of this. So I got back home and I emailed

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Piano and within three days ad got an audition. I

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could go down to Suffolk or I could go to

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Cumbria to be interviewed and auditioned. Of course, Cumbria is

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so near to Lancashire, there was no option. I was

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giving a telephone number and I telephoned a lady called

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Maureen and she said, Simon, bring your laptop and I'll

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audition you but we need six hours of material. So

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if you get to my home at ten o'clock in

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the morning in Cumbria, so that's no problem tool Really,

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she said, my house is very hard to find. I said, well,

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I know South Lake's quite well, said, you won't find

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my house. It's a bit isolated. She gave me a

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sat NAV code and I remember putting the sat NAV

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code into my car setting off, going over the gorgeous

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top of Bowland, a mountain range in Lancashire, down into

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the city of Lancaster, and then turning right for the

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Lake district. I went past my old primary school and

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then passed my old second Modern school, up a beautiful

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road through a forest, and then down the bottom the

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road and turning left up a very very familiar driveway.

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It was the house that my father had sold in

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nineteen seventy three. When I got there, I stood in

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awe and looked up at the three story limestone building.

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Marian came to the door, Come on, Simon, we need

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to get this audition done. You look a little bit

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She said, Well, I know you won't believe this morning,

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but I used to live here. Oh incredible, As it happened,

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I did have some photographs of my laptop which confirmed

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it for my childhood. She said, let's have a cup

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of tea. I went into the front room, sat down

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and admired the doorknobs, the fireplace, which I had last

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seen as a fifteen year old boy. She then came

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back with a tray of tea, milk and sugar in cups, etc.

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And I mentioned my father's experience of the liver and

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white cocker spaniel that first day when we arrived, Maureen

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dropped the tray. I can still see that the tea

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going across the carpet, the sugar and the milk and

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broken saucer, and she gassed with breath. Oh some, that's amazing.

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My brother lives in London and every Christmas he spends

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Christmas with my husband and I. That very first Christmas

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we moved in, he would have had what would have

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been your mother and father's bedroom upstairs. He told us

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on Christmas morning that in the early hours of the

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morning the door opened and in came a liver and

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white Cocker Spaniel dog. I looked at ceiling. My dad

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had died way back in nineteen eighty two, and I said,

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thank you, Dad. It's confirmed that ghosts really do exist,

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and that I can assure you is a true story.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that must have been like shocking when you were

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like walked into that house and because you know, like

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when you revisit your past anyway, it's very different. But

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then to find that the same things as it has

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happened as well, and in somewhere that you loved as well.

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And she obviously looked after the house from what you've saying,

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so you know you've come home but not come home

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at the same time.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing, Natal, I mean, I still think of the house.

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I still have those lovely memories as a boy, and

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I grew to love the building. I grew to love it,

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and it's almost if the house wanted me back again. Yeah,

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it's incredible. The Daily Mail got hold of the story,

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and so did the local radio station as well, and

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some I got a call from your university in the

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chapter that the chaps that happening are forty four million

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to one against. But if people who were watching, if

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they want to, they can go into youtubeer but Simon

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entlesol forty four million to one and you can see

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the whole video of the house and the rooms and

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indeed the story, but it is a very very true story.

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As far as the audition went. It sounds great, doesn't

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it really, But these cruisers are ideal if you're a

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single person. I've got a loving wife actually, and I

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did just the one which was a Norwegian tour, but

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I was by myself and although there's lots of people

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to talk to, it didn't feel right to be by

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myself away from home in that predicament room.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing. And what we will

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do is we will find that video ass and we'll

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put that share that onto our group and our LA

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page as well, so that people can go ahead and

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watch that, and definitely will give that watch ourselves. So

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that's really that's really interesting how almost things kind of

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did a full circle from the first sever parental experience

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into then bringing you in, especially into your storytelling and

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sharing that more worldwide as well, which is fascinating. And

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I do believe there's no such thing as coincidences. There

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is consequences. I am aware of this, but maybe that's

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a Freudian slip, I don't know, but coincidences, I don't

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believe there's such thing as coincidences. So Yeah, it's fantastic.

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Thank you so much for sharing that. We'll make sure

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that we share that as well as the people that

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watching listening.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I still feel that the house hasn't finished with me.

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I still feel that there's something in the post where

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I might end up going back again.

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Speaker 2: I just feel it. Really, Yeah, that's what I was

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going to say. Actually, it's a funny thing about buildings.

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It's like, because certain buildings do, even ones you don't

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live in, will call you. It's like we lived in

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a house when I was little and my mum said

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that the house didn't like people leaving it and it

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wanted to be occupied all the time. And it's like

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I did a ghost I didn't do a ghost on

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I did a tour at the Galleries of Justice in

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Nottingham and it's in the my mind ever since then.

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That place just you can feel it calling you, carn't

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you all the time. It's like this sort of like

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I don't know it. It's strange how places have that

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effect on people and houses and it's almost like some

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of them have more more of a I don't know,

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don't once he is we're consciousness, but sort of spirit

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of place to them, you know, than others. Some places

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are just buildings, but other places always seem to have

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this thing to them. Yes, right, they're alive.

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Speaker 3: Almost very much. So that's a very app description, I think,

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a very app description, definitely.

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Speaker 2: So what made you decide to do the ghost walk?

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Why pick ghosts in the first place rather than just

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like a historic type walk around your area. What made

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you decide to do that?

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Speaker 3: Then? Really natally, it would be my dad, because my

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dad told me the story, and he was a man

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who wouldn't lie about anything. He didn't need to, he

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didn't need to invent the story, and it still fascinates me.

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In fact, I would love to go back to the house.

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And I mean I'm not a medium, I'm not a psychic,

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and I know quite a people who are, and it'd

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be really nice to have a bit of a seance

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in room, just to see if the dog would appear.

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That would be something which I would find absolutely fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I think as well, when you think a little bit

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about the psychic link, it could be that you could

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conduct a seance whilst not being in the building. There

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is where being able to remote view and to link

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in that way. So who knows what the potential could be,

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but absolutely an evening of connection spirit connection would be

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fascinating to see what does come up.

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Speaker 3: I was looking the internet recently and the house is

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actually up for sale. It is out of my price range.

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I would love to buy it, I really really would

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love to buy it, but it's well out of my

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price range. I'm afraid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's strange though, isn't it. How kind of life

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will in twine? We never say never, We don't know

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what the future may hold, never say never. But that

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would be really interesting. Yeah, fantastic. Okay, So when we

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think with some of the stories that you share from

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your local area, what is the most fascinating story that

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isn't as well known as others may be?

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Speaker 3: Well, I found when I started my guided tours, I

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like eye witness accounts like my dad's story. There really

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and you can always tell when someone is pulling your leg,

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you can always tell when someone's fabricating a story. You

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can always tell when someone's very, very honest. And I

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met a marvelous chap from the town of Darwin, which

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is quite near Blackburn in Lancashire, and through the tourism association,

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I met him lovely guided tour too, called Bill Morris,

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and we went to the local Witherspoons, had a pint

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and a pie together, had a good chat and he said, Simon,

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the story I'm going to tell you is quite intriguing, really,

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he said, I was born by the railway, the East

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Lancashire Railway, and my mum and dad had a vegefoot

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patch right next to the railway line where there was

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a fence, and we'd dig at the potatoes, the carrots

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and the spinach and watch the steam engines go by.

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And I told my mum and dad when I left school,

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I'd like to work in the railway. And he left

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school at fourteen and got a job on what's called

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the East Lancashire Railway, linking the city of Carlisle with

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the city of Manchester, and as the trains went by,

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he would tap the wheels and make sure they weren't damaged.

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He then got a job as a fireman on a

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steam engine, and then just after his twenty first birthday,

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he got the job off his dreams, every little boy's dream,

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a steam engine locomotive driver, and he would take the

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engine up to the city of Edinburgh bring it down

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through Carlisle, right down towards Manchester, and when he went

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past his mum and dad's house, he'd pull the whistle.

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It was like a and his mum and dad would

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go rushing down to waive at him as a train

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went past. He said. In the summer of nineteen sixty two,

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he took the engine down the line, and in between

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Manchester and Darwin, you'll find a beautiful tunnel, a very

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long tunnel. On either side of the tunnel are these

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really large open green fields full of cattle and sheep.

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As he took the train down the line, he noticed

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sitting on the fence very near the tunnel entrance, a

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little boy with straw colored hair, and the little boy

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started to waving. Of course, Bill, having once been a

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little boy himself, would wave back, and the little boy

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was always there, always the same time, for the next

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five weeks. However, in October of that year, he took

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the engine down the line and noticed for the very

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first time the straw colored haired boy was not sitting

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on the fence, but he was standing in the field

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next to the tunnel entrance, surrounded by sleeping sheep. As

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the train came down the line. The little boy looked

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up and ran towards the fence to waive at Bill

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and the fireman. But Bill noted the little boy was

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actually running through sleeping sheep. The sheep didn't even know

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he was there. He elbowed the farmer. Look at that,

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Look at that? Sorry mate, too busy shoveling, came the reply.

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They went into the tunnel down to Manchester and went

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to the Buffy bar at their Victoria station, Manchester, and

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the fireman said, Bill, you've been very very quiet. Bill,

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what's the problem. Well, it really worries me. You know

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that young lad with a straw colored hair who sits

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on the fence near the tunnel entrance. Oh, yes, he

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wasn't there today. He was in the field soon rand

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by sheep and cattle. And when he saw he started

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to run towards the fence. And I saw him running

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through sleeping sheep. No, no, no, said the fireman, No, no, no,

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you're seeing things Bill. They changed the freight over and

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came back up north. As the train was about to

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enter the tunnel from the Manchester side, Bill noted a

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red light. He slowed the steam engine down and there

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in the tunnel entrance was a police sergeant holding up

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a large red lantern. But what's wrong, sergeant, shouted Bill. Oh, terrible,

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there's been a young lad killed. It entered the tunnel. Oh, sergeant,

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that's terrible. Ay it is he lost his brother there

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five years ago. Oh, sergeant, that is heartbreaking. Ay, we've

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just been to see the parents. It wasn't pleasant. No, no, no,

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it wouldn't be, said Bill. Word filtered through the tunnel.

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They could take the engine through it. As Bill brought

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the steam locomotive down the length of tunnel, it's emerged

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into bright, bright sunlight, and Bill glanced the left and

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saw the straw colored haired boy hold in the hand

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of a much taller boy. As Bill turned away with them,

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they rose their hands and both faded into thin air.

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On Bill's neck rose as he held with the farm

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of the second time. Look at that, sorry mate, two

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bus he's shoveling, came the reply. Bill never saw them again.

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We can always tell when someone's been very honest and

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very truthful. And of course I did look into the

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history of the East Langshire Railway and they were two

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brothers that were killed five years apart at the tunnel

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entrance it seems that Bill really did see something very

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very paranormal, a very touching story, but also a very

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true eye witness account, which I find make the best stories,

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they really do.

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Speaker 2: Wow. The consistency of him seeing the boy as well,

403
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it's sort of like it's it was the boy the

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one that had been killed originally that was waiting for

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his brother, do you think, or it.

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Speaker 3: Was the straw cold haired boy that was killed the

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second time his brother he'd been killed five years pre

408
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But there was obviously a link between the two of them,

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really and obviously link and but a tragic story, but

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also a very very true story.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And I think when we think about winness statements and

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how we can validate them through different ways, it's always

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amazing when we have these experiences firsthand, but actually when

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there's other sources as well that can validate that as

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much as this is a really touch in the moving story,

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but that experience with himself is very profound, and the

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fact that that would have been pivotal in that person's

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like man's life, but being able to then validate that

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and explore that historically as well, just gives it another layer,

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doesn't it?

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Speaker 3: Very very much, very much so, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. That's really interesting and I

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think I also really enjoy the stories that are first

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hand experienced, but especially when it comes to the paranormal,

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because you do get an e gauge of a person's

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kind of authenticity in the way that they share and speak.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So when is that with that within your local area?

430
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A little bit further.

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Speaker 3: Out, Well, what actually happened when I started the tours,

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all the local councils got in contact with me, and

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in the nineteen nineties councils had what's called tourism officers,

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and I got invited to all the local councils in

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the in the Greater Manster area, in the Cumbria, in

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the Yorkshire areas, and I was invited to conduct guided

437
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tours in all those locations. But the councils in those

438
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:43,880
days were very helpful and they'd even sell tickets for

439
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,519
you and even promote them for you. But because of

440
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:51,039
government cutbacks, all the tourism officers have gone. Councils looked

441
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on that as the first people to cut but that

442
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:59,160
was through black men with Darwin Council and a lovely

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lady called and I went to the local library with

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00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,759
her and we looked at some stories and she said

445
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she'd like me to conduct this tour but with heroes

446
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,799
and with villains as well, really to make it a

447
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bit more exciting.

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Speaker 1: Really, Okay, So thinking a bit about the villain stories,

449
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have you got a villain story that you'd like to

450
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,440
share from that area?

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Speaker 3: I have. It's not a very pleasant story, but there's

452
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a big twist at the end of it, a really

453
00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,680
big twist at the end of it, involving Madame two swords.

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But we are going to turn the clock back in

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time and people say the good old days, I don't

456
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think they were. I think they're just as bad as

457
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they were nowadays. Really, But we are going to go

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to Blackburn Town Center eighteen seventy five and the story

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of a young lady called Emily Holland. Emily is nine.

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She's walking home through the center of Blackman with her

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two brothers. As they make the way past a old

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hotel which is still there to this very day, called

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the Wheat Sheaf. She just disappeared her brother's card and

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00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,240
walking turned around, where's Emily gone to? She must have

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run ahead of us when they got home. Emily wasn't there,

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and mother and father were distraught. What do it mean

467
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:14,640
she disappeared? You should have stayed with her, Well, she

468
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:19,759
just disappeared. How can anyone disappear? They ran down to

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the police station in Blackburn. There they met Inspector Potts,

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Inspector Eastwood and Detective lives In and they said, don't worry,

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she's probably just gone somewhere else. But they searched the

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whole town for seven days and seven nights, and this

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was getting quite concerning for the mother and father. As

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you can imagine. On the eighth day, a gentleman comes

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to Peter Thairdcloff took his dog for a walk in

476
00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:46,319
the local park and the dog came out of the

477
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,240
park with some newspaper in its mouth, saturated in blood.

478
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,319
Faired to have said, get that out your mouth. He

479
00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:57,119
pulled the newspaper, tore it from the creature's jaws, and

480
00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:02,440
out came a child's hand. Eastwood and Potts were alerted

481
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,720
immediately and they ascertained that the hand belonged to nine

482
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:11,000
year old Emily Holland. An hour later, missus White from

483
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:14,400
North Blackman was walking to work and she tripped her

484
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,319
with some more newspapers heavily stained in blood. She picked

485
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,720
up the newspaper, which was quite heavy, and opened it

486
00:28:20,759 --> 00:28:24,160
and was horrified to see the torso of a child.

487
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,839
She was violently sick. Eastward, Pots and Livesey of Blackman

488
00:28:28,839 --> 00:28:31,519
police arrived and they took the remains back to the

489
00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:35,359
moor tree. That's when Inspector Eastwood looked inside the newspaper

490
00:28:35,839 --> 00:28:40,240
and saw lots of human hair belonging to different human beings.

491
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,039
He said, I've got it. Whoever committed this despicable act

492
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:46,680
on this nine year old girl was a barber. A

493
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:49,640
barber is the man we need to be looking for now.

494
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,400
Blackburn at that period of time was a very large

495
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,279
textile town and they had lots and lots of barbers.

496
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,759
In fact, thirty two individual barber shops. Would you believe

497
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,359
they checked every single one of them out, one of

498
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:05,440
them being a shop owned by a chap calls the

499
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,480
William Fish. William Fish was twenty five years old, had

500
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:12,759
a wife and two daughters, and was considered to be

501
00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:16,960
quite a civilized gentleman. As Eastwood and Pops and Livesy

502
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,599
went into the shop, they saw a huge pile of

503
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,559
the local newspapers which was indeed the Blackburn Herald. Potts

504
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:27,079
took his pad out. He had made a note of

505
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,720
all the numbers and all the dates on the newspaper

506
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:35,200
where the poor girl's organs were installed, and that paper

507
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,960
was missing. It was the fish where's last week's herald newspaper? Oh?

508
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,759
I used this morning, sir to light the fire. And

509
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:48,319
they accepted his story. Remember his twenty five, a father

510
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,880
of two daughters and considered to be quite a nice person. Really.

511
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,119
The officers went back to the police station, and they

512
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,000
went to their office, and they looked out of the

513
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,519
window and they could see a billboard on the other

514
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,559
side of the street with the words Blackburn police incompetence,

515
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,680
Blackman police no nearer to catching maniac. This upset them,

516
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,680
but they couldn't get any lead whatsoever. There was no leads.

517
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,240
A week past, another week past, and no arrest, and

518
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:22,400
the billboards outside the police station were getting very very nasty.

519
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,680
Blackman police not worth the weight payers money in competence.

520
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,440
That's when a local mill owner called mister William Hornby

521
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,480
put up one hundred pounds to anyone who could find

522
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,119
the murderer, and also the Home Office in London were

523
00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:42,079
getting very very concerned because this was a particularly nasty,

524
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,279
nasty murder and they wanted to catch this person before

525
00:30:46,319 --> 00:30:51,279
he reoffended. So two hundred pounds to catch the offender.

526
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:54,920
Who should pick up the gauntlets? But a thirteen year

527
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,119
old boy from the city of Preston called Peter Levine,

528
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,000
and Peter wrote to Blackburn police, Sir, I've got a

529
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,680
little dog is called Morgan. He'll find your murderer. Eastwood,

530
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:10,279
Pots and Livesey had a good laugh, but they looked

531
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:12,960
out of the window. So the billboard that morning was

532
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:17,039
extremely critical of all three of them because no arrest

533
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,119
had been done, and said, look this young lad, let's

534
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,960
let's go and meet him. They arranged to meet him

535
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,319
at railway station in Blackburn, and he had this little

536
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:28,799
dog called Morgan, which was shivering with the cold, a

537
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,079
little lurcher colleague cross shivering with the cold on the platform,

538
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,640
and he said, Sir, my dog just needs to get

539
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:40,400
a cent from the newspapers that this poor girl's body

540
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,599
was put in and he'll find a murderer. Okay, said Eastwood.

541
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,880
We'll try it, We'll try it. They went to the

542
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:50,079
Moortree they brought the remains of poor Emily's torso and

543
00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:55,079
her hand out, and the dog started to bark hysterically.

544
00:31:55,839 --> 00:32:00,400
He said, sir, my dog, it's got a cent. They

545
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,279
opened the mortary door. The dog ran into the center

546
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:05,799
of Blackman, followed by the three officers and young Peter.

547
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:09,319
They went to Darwin Street, through King Street, through the

548
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:15,160
center of Blackman and straight to William Fish's barber's shop.

549
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:19,000
Behind the frosty glass in the window was a rather

550
00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:21,599
frosty looking William Fish. As he saw the three officers

551
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:24,160
and the dog scratching at the door, he opened the door.

552
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,359
The dog went through his legs straight to the front

553
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,799
room and started barking up the chimney. Peteried, sir, me

554
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,880
dog knows this. Someone took that chimney, Sir right, arrest

555
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,000
Fish eastward, handcuffed him and fought into the floor, whilst

556
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:43,279
Inspector Potts knelt down and reached behind the chimney breast

557
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,559
and found some more newspaper. He opened the newspaper and

558
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:52,920
found the charred remains of poor Emily's dress, the dress

559
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,480
she'd been wearing that day. Now, in those days, the

560
00:32:56,559 --> 00:32:59,039
police will allowed to be a lot more persuasive than

561
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:02,920
they are nowadays, and they gave Fish a really good hiding.

562
00:33:03,319 --> 00:33:06,799
In fact, you could say they assaulted him. He was

563
00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:11,039
then dragged down the police station black and blue and

564
00:33:11,079 --> 00:33:14,720
then sent straight to Liverpool for trial. At the trial

565
00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:20,119
he admitted to drinking very, very heavily on the day

566
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:23,279
of the murder. When this nine year old girl, a

567
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,240
nine year old girl went past him, he grabbed her.

568
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,200
He committed a despicable act and this young girl horrified

569
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,400
what he'd done. He thought, I can't let her go.

570
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,680
He strangled her and as Inspector Eastwood quite rightly ascertained.

571
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,720
He took the body to the barbershop and dissected the

572
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,640
body on the barbershop floor, and of course there's lots

573
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,359
of human hair on the floor at the same time.

574
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,079
And Eastwood was quite right. He was found guilty of

575
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,359
her murder and was hung on the twenty second of

576
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,160
November eighteen seventy five. Now he was hung by a

577
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,960
gentleman comes to William Marlwood, who was called the gentleman hangman,

578
00:34:04,359 --> 00:34:06,319
who would look at the weight of a human being

579
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:09,280
and the necessary drop to break the neck cleaning, and

580
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,599
he gave Fish a much more humane death than poor

581
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,199
Emily all those years ago. The one thing William Fish

582
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,000
did become was the very very first Lancashire man ever

583
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:24,599
to be made and Madame two Swords waxwork dummy and

584
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,880
was in Madam two Swords from eighteen seventy five to

585
00:34:28,039 --> 00:34:32,199
nineteen o five and was called simply the Blackburn Butcher.

586
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:36,639
A terrible story but also a very very true story.

587
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,280
As for young Peter, he was only a thirteen year

588
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,119
old boy. Did he get the two hundred pounds His

589
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,840
mum and dad did, And by the time he was eighteen,

590
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,719
they'd spent every single penny, so he never saw a

591
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,320
penny of the reward money. A great story.

592
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: Bless him. I think the dogs should have got the

593
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,199
reward money.

594
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: I agree. Really he should have had a new collar,

595
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:01,960
shouldn't he.

596
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

597
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 2: That's really sad that his parents spent it or hasn't

598
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,440
even given him.

599
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: A little bit of it.

600
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: That's until he was eighteen, it had all gone.

601
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,119
Speaker 2: Natalie, Yes, oh gosh, I could do you know. We

602
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,079
interviewed someone not that long ago who was an ex

603
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:24,239
detective and he said that the thing with a lot

604
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,599
of murderers and killers and things are that they seem

605
00:35:26,679 --> 00:35:29,519
so normal you know, and like you say, there very

606
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:33,760
often very respectable seem to be nice people with families

607
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,480
and high in the social and it's like that kind

608
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:41,679
of illustrates it. But he also said like that, very often,

609
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,599
like we catchy murderers a lot of it, it's like

610
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,880
random coincidences. Like you say, what would have happened if

611
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,199
that kid with the dog hadn't had tried and they

612
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,719
hadn't allowed it. I mean, nowadays they wouldn't have allowed

613
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,039
a thirteen year old to try and find a murderer,

614
00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:57,360
but they needed it as well. I mean, he could

615
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,960
have gone off scott free, and like you say, reoffended.

616
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:03,559
Next time he drank heavily, and if it wasn't for

617
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:06,440
that dog and that kid, he it would have taken them.

618
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:08,480
The minia might still have found him, but it would

619
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,159
have taken him longer. And it's like, it's funny how

620
00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:15,559
these little coincidences and things add up, isn't it to

621
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,320
get people caught as well?

622
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,199
Speaker 3: But yeah, and one of my soores, I took a

623
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,079
tour into Blackburn and the Heroes and Villain's Tour, and

624
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:27,599
I do mention that story of course from the old

625
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:31,519
wheat sheep where it's a lovely old Victorian public house actually,

626
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,440
and the stable block is still there where where Fish

627
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,159
committed this table act. But over the use there's been

628
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,199
stories of the sound of a little girl screaming or

629
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,159
crying that has come from there, and it breaks my

630
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:47,400
heart to think how she lost her life, you know.

631
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,000
I mean they do say the good old days, I

632
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,039
don't think they were really. And I was watching the

633
00:36:51,079 --> 00:36:55,159
news tonight there's a case of a chap who deliberately

634
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:01,280
stabbed two people in Brighton on the beach deliberately, And

635
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,480
then you look at that terrible case of the Pakistani

636
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:07,840
father who tortured his own daughter to death. I mean,

637
00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:10,800
nothing's changed, has it, really? But as just say, these

638
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,320
people look normal but so very very dangerous, very very dangerous.

639
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:21,159
Speaker 2: And like you say, it's very often it's triggers things

640
00:37:21,159 --> 00:37:23,599
that trigger them, so they can sort of like say,

641
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:27,159
if he never drank, he probably never would have gone

642
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,239
over that line. But there's certain triggers that sort of

643
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:35,239
what's it tipped them over into crime. So you know,

644
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,039
if he'd been a sober, sort of god fearing man,

645
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,400
he may never have been in a situation that would

646
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,519
have triggered that that action as well. It's very specific.

647
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:51,239
It's it is sad. It's sad when you think about it,

648
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,320
And like you say, I don't think it's any different

649
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,679
now than it was even thousands of years ago. I

650
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,199
remember reading stories about the vikings and things, and like

651
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:02,559
you say, people would behave in the same len as

652
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:07,039
they do now. It's just in a different social context.

653
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: But when you think of it, alcohol is a very

654
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:15,519
very dangerous drug, isn't it. Yeah, I love a pint,

655
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,719
I do. I do love a pint. But you can

656
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,559
guarantee this Christmas Eve someone will go over the top

657
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:27,239
of the Christmas party or get a bit violent by

658
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,159
drinking too much, et cetera. But I'm sure if alcohol

659
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:37,519
was invented tomorrow, it'd be a class A drug, probably banned, most.

660
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,559
Speaker 1: Likely, absolutely, And I have tried to do that. When

661
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:45,880
we have the the ambitions and prohibitions, that's its time,

662
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:50,639
thank you. Yeah, We've had prohibitions throughout history, and I

663
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:55,360
think that, yeah, it can. It acts as a lethal ingredients.

664
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,360
Sometimes when you've got the perfect storm, we call it

665
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,000
the perfect song. When Natalie said that we had interviewed

666
00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:04,920
the police officer we were talking about, he was one

667
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,679
of the arrest well, he was one of the investigators

668
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:10,719
for the John Wayne Casey case in America, and we

669
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,039
were talking about how crazen he was when it comes

670
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:17,239
to the things, the things that he would do, like

671
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,239
he would have the John Wayne Gacy would have politicians

672
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,840
at his house, but then also leave guns around. So

673
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:26,679
it kind of like thought. It is very strange, I

674
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,639
suppose if you haven't got that mindset, it's it's very

675
00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:33,920
hard to understand that mindset. But yeah, that's that's Thank

676
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,480
you so much for sharing that story. And I think

677
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,039
you mentioned Christmas Eve, and we're coming close to the

678
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:45,880
end of the show now, so one of the things

679
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,039
that we thought might be really nice if we could

680
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,960
hear one of your Christmas maybe spooky stories that you

681
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:52,519
might have.

682
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,199
Speaker 3: Very much so, Natalte. So it's a beautiful story. It

683
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,800
would be much Twenty years ago, the meta chup called

684
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,199
Billy Laiken came to my house. I made him a

685
00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:07,119
cup of coffee and he knew that I like ghost stories,

686
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:10,079
and he told me a beautiful one. Actually, he reached

687
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:13,559
into his pocket and produced a photograph of fifty seven

688
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:18,239
young men outside the parish church office in Clithero and

689
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,440
on the back of the photograph was Evans's name Clithero

690
00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:25,039
Territorial Army. September nineteen thirty nine, when Great Britain and

691
00:40:25,079 --> 00:40:27,840
the conword declared warn next to Germany, he said, the

692
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,000
photograph was taken. They were then sent to the Magino

693
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:32,719
Line in France, and the friend said the Germans will

694
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,639
never get through here. And there Tendency walked up and

695
00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:39,440
down the Magineo line, saw no action whatsoever. But it's

696
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,000
all changed in the tenth of May nineteen forty when

697
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,239
the Germans laws we were now called Blitzkrieg. He found

698
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,360
himself on the beats of Dunkirk, absolutely shattered. He had

699
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,320
worn the leather off his boots from the march from

700
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,760
the Magino Line to Dunkirk. He was starving and he

701
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,320
was also really tired. He took his tin helmet off

702
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,360
and dug trench in the side of a sand dune

703
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,800
and lay inside the sand dune. In the meantime, the

704
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,920
German Air Force are strapping the beaches, and Corpora wakes

705
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,679
him up and says, look, we're being evacuated at four

706
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,519
o'clock this afternoon by an operation called Dynamo. The Royal

707
00:41:16,559 --> 00:41:18,960
Navy going to take us off the beaches. He got

708
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,000
down to the beach and a German aircraft came down

709
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:24,719
the beach open fire. He dived under the water. When

710
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,599
he came to the surface, the sea was red with

711
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:30,400
the blood of his mates. He then felt a hand

712
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,760
grab his battle dressed tunic. He was pulled into a

713
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,480
small row boat, rode out to a Royal Naval destroyer

714
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,480
and had the finest meal he's ever had, the first

715
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:43,000
food in seven days, a corned beef sandwich, a mug

716
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:47,000
of tea and a delicious woodbine cigarette. He got to

717
00:41:47,079 --> 00:41:51,000
Dover and then told just go back to the Battanion headquarters.

718
00:41:51,199 --> 00:41:55,320
In his case, that would be Clithero, who remember getting

719
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,440
a train from Dover to London, London to the city

720
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,079
of Preston and then the little branch line that took

721
00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:04,320
him to Clithero. When he got to Clithero, he opened

722
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,880
the carriage door and he literally kissed the platform. He

723
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,360
then made his way straight to the parish church office.

724
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,119
As he opened the door, out of the fifty seven

725
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:17,639
young men on the photograph, only nineteen had got back,

726
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,239
who were told down then to make up the numbers. Now,

727
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,079
in those days, if you were eighteen, you were conscripted.

728
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,519
If you were seventeen you could join up. You had

729
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:31,159
to have your mum and dad's consent. Now Bill was nineteen.

730
00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:33,159
He had a young friend who was seventeen, and this

731
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,079
young lad said, oh, Bill, go and see me. Mum

732
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,320
and dad, I want to fight me country, Bill said.

733
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,760
The young boy's parents. They said, I'm sorry, he's our

734
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,320
only son and the walker be oba necture. Anyway, Oh please, please, Dad,

735
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,800
want to fight for me country. They gave him on

736
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,000
one condition that Bill would look after him like a brother,

737
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,719
and he saw he would do so. They signed the

738
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,079
consent forms and the young boy joined the cly R

739
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:05,320
Territorial Detachment, who were then sent overseas to the beautiful

740
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,239
Greek island of Crete to make up the garrison there,

741
00:43:08,519 --> 00:43:12,599
along with the Australian and New Zealand Armed Forces. On

742
00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:15,239
the twenty first of May nineteen forty one, the Germans

743
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,840
launched a highly disciplined airborne invasion of the island of Crete.

744
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,639
The fighting was ferocious. The Britishness and ANZAC forces nearly

745
00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:29,280
turned it around, but the Germans had superior equipment, total

746
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,119
air cover and in the fighting. The detachment lost fourteen

747
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:36,280
men killed, one of them being the seventeen year old

748
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,760
young boy. Bill was absolutely heartbroken at this young boy's

749
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,000
death and blamed himself entirely from his pow camp in

750
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:49,559
Poland for the Red Cross. He would write letters frequently

751
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:52,960
backed this young boy's mother and father, just simply saying, please,

752
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:56,639
please forgive me. They wrote back, and they said, we

753
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,920
don't personally wholly responsible for the day of our son,

754
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:05,199
but Bill did. He was repatriated in nineteen forty five,

755
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,840
got a job in a local factory, but was never

756
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,760
ever the same man. Never smiled, never talked, never joked,

757
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:16,519
was always almost like a permanent daydream. This young boy's

758
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:22,039
death affect them very badly. However, things were going to change.

759
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,960
On the twenty fourth of December nineteen sixty eight Christmas Eve,

760
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:31,320
when he went to the parish church office to watch

761
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:36,840
the Clithero Amateur operat Excitists Christmas Plate the same building

762
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,320
where the photograph was taken in nineteen thirty nine. He

763
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,400
left the building at the end of the show and

764
00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:45,599
lit a cigarettes. As he smoked the cigarette, he looked

765
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:48,119
at the wall where the photograph was taken in nineteen

766
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:52,679
thirty nine. Took a deep sigh, exhumusated cigarette with his foot,

767
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,960
and then walked in front of the building. Then turned

768
00:44:55,039 --> 00:44:58,559
left down a little gimmel, a little snikelway, if you will,

769
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:00,840
that would take him onto a a little street called

770
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,719
York Street. As he turned down the cobblestone gimmel, he

771
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,679
heard three whispers. Hey Bill, Hey Bill, Hey Billy. He

772
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,920
turned round and saw the ghost of the young boy

773
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,760
in British Army uniform. And the first thing Bill noted

774
00:45:18,119 --> 00:45:21,280
was this young lad had an aged the day he

775
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,320
looked exactly and he had an uncreat in nineteen forty one.

776
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,599
The boy rose his arm, A Bill, Bill, don't worry

777
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:33,360
about me. Bill, don't worry Bill. I'm fine. I've always

778
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:38,320
been fine with that. Billy's knees gave way. He knelt

779
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,639
on the cobblestones that Christmas Eve, and he told me, Simon,

780
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,599
I bellowed like a wounded animal. I was yelked in pain.

781
00:45:48,039 --> 00:45:50,760
The tears streamed down my cheeks. I was yelked in pain.

782
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,320
I looked up. The boy turned, smiled and vaporized. It

783
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,119
took Bill thirty minutes half an hour to get to

784
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:06,320
his feet. He just knelt there in pain, emotional pain.

785
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,000
He got to his feet. He walked home that Christmas Eve,

786
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,320
past the happy Christmas revelers. The last thing he felt

787
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:18,000
was celebrating anything. He'd seen something very, very, very paranormal.

788
00:46:18,639 --> 00:46:22,519
He got home and quite surprisingly, he fell into a

789
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:27,480
deep sleep. The following morning, Christmas Day, nineteen sixty eight,

790
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,559
he was woken by the church bells of Saint Mary's,

791
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:34,280
Saint Paul's, and Saint James. He got out of bed,

792
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,400
feeling totally different. He made his way to the bathroom,

793
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,599
opened the bathroom door and caught his reflection in the

794
00:46:42,639 --> 00:46:47,280
shaving mirror. He noticed a change in his facial appearance.

795
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,199
He noted, for the first time since nineteen forty one,

796
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,239
he was actually smiling, and he felt had been truly

797
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,280
forgiven for the death of this young boy all those

798
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,159
years ago. I never forget Bill's words as he left

799
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:07,360
my house that day, said Simon. I never believed in

800
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,559
ghosts until I saw one with my own eyes. Billy

801
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:16,840
died when a good fifteen sixteen years ago. Because I

802
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,039
knew him, I went to his funeral. I then went

803
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:23,079
to the interment at the cemetery, and by his grave

804
00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:25,760
were two elderly gentlemen. I had a diplomatic talk with

805
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,960
both of them and they said, oh yes, we all

806
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,119
got captured together on crete. I mentioned that the young boy,

807
00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:34,559
Oh yes, said one of them, Billy was looking after him.

808
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,719
He sent him back to the ammunition truck that had

809
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,000
a metal tailgate that would give him some protection, but

810
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:44,480
a German sniper caught him an open ground. And of

811
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,639
course every November we think of, well, these lads who

812
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,360
lost their lives, we buy poppies. I always think of

813
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,480
those two really, but a very very touching story. My

814
00:47:54,519 --> 00:47:57,440
wife and I did go to Cretes, oh some six

815
00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:01,719
years ago, and I went to the a Bay Military Cemetery.

816
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,519
And what I found particularly touching the two guys that

817
00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:08,760
looked after the cemetery. They knew every single gravestone, and

818
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,760
they knew edwe's name, and they took it to this

819
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,000
young boy's grave, John Hudson, seventeen years of age. And

820
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:18,480
I for the Royal British Legion in Clithero. I left

821
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,960
a poppy there for him on behalf of the people

822
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,440
of Clithero, which of course was quite touching really, but

823
00:48:25,199 --> 00:48:26,440
a great story in itself.

824
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: If you will, thank you so much. Thank you for

825
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:30,639
sharing that.

826
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,159
Speaker 3: It's very much the story, isn't it.

827
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 2: I was going to say it's funny, like a lot

828
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,920
of people say that about ghosts. I don't believe in

829
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,239
them until I saw one. Well, it's really nice that

830
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,559
that helped him move on, because I mean, he could

831
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:47,679
have lived the rest of his life like that. And

832
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:51,760
the fact that the spirit actually came and told him

833
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,000
it was okay is actually really touching. That he didn't

834
00:48:55,159 --> 00:48:57,000
like very much, Yeah.

835
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 3: Very much, because he'd been grieving for so long, exactly

836
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,440
for so long, and he said that it was almost

837
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,719
the boy hadn't aged a day. He looked exactly as

838
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,199
he had them in nineteen forty one, standing in the

839
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,199
gunnel there, and he said, don't worry about me. I'm fine.

840
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:16,320
I've always been fine.

841
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,159
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder, actually, if he came through him

842
00:49:20,159 --> 00:49:25,840
at his funeral, you know, like when he reunited with

843
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,280
him both once they both yeah, isn't it.

844
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd like to think so, nut, I'd like to

845
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:34,440
think so. I really would like to think. So. That's

846
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:35,119
quite beautiful.

847
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:38,519
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, yeah, yeah, it's a nice thought. I hope

848
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:38,920
they did.

849
00:49:40,119 --> 00:49:44,119
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, thanks, yeah, thank you so much for sharing

850
00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:46,039
that story. And that is a that is a very

851
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,840
beautiful story too, because when we think a little bit

852
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,039
about Christmas, we are really aware of those that aren't

853
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:58,800
around our table, and we are faced more with that

854
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,840
when we have those moments, especially around Christmas. So to

855
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:07,679
have that closure given in such a beautiful way, I

856
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,440
think it's a really lovely sentiment. Thank you for sharing

857
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:15,119
that well that it is a really good place for

858
00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:17,159
us to kind of bring our podcast to an end

859
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:22,079
this evening. It's been so good to share this with you.

860
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,920
If for anyone that would like to find more about you,

861
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,760
how can they find you? And what have you got

862
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:29,480
coming up next?

863
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 3: Right? Well, I've got a very very exciting project with

864
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:38,920
a general called Daniel Ross, and it's called the Haunted Project,

865
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,519
and this is actually on Pendall Hill. They have an

866
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:46,840
exclusive location in the very very heart of the Pendle

867
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,400
Witch story, which is the most famous witch trials in

868
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,559
Great British history. I'm heavily involved in that project, which

869
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:57,360
will be taking people around all the villages but also

870
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,960
telling the story and they will handle the power normal's side.

871
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:03,360
But I'm looking forward to that very very much. Indeed,

872
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,119
I do have a book out on Amazon called Ghost

873
00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:10,440
details are the unexpected and some of the stories you've

874
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,440
heard tonight are actually in the book but on YouTube

875
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:19,159
under Simon Entwisol Tales from the Graves. There's a lot

876
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,880
of material there, including the forty four million to one story,

877
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:24,960
which is quite unique.

878
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: Really, okay, we'll make sure that we share that out

879
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,559
as well, so people and a very interesting project coming

880
00:51:34,599 --> 00:51:36,840
up to it was that with Danny Moss.

881
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,559
Speaker 3: Is that that's the one Danny Moss? Yes, yeah, he

882
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:43,800
has my Hanted Hotel project which is very very popular,

883
00:51:44,159 --> 00:51:48,760
but he's actually got an exclusive location. It's a farmhouse

884
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,159
on the side of Pendle Hill, which is right in

885
00:51:52,199 --> 00:51:56,960
between New Church and Barley and Black Oat and down it.

886
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,880
He could not have got a better location. He's got

887
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,519
it exclusive rights to use the cottage and has asked

888
00:52:03,559 --> 00:52:06,360
me to go there with groups and tell them the

889
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,039
whole story of the Pendle Witches and then they will investigate.

890
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:12,960
So I'm looking forward to that very very much indeed,

891
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,639
and it will be on Amazon Prime and there's a

892
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,360
lot of international interest in that story there really really is.

893
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,360
So I'm looking forward to getting involved in that.

894
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,039
Speaker 2: Really, will you get to dress up when you do that?

895
00:52:26,639 --> 00:52:29,000
Will you get to dress up because I.

896
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,559
Speaker 3: I for the ghost walks, I definitely wear Victorian frock

897
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:36,800
coats and the top hat, which I do enjoy. I

898
00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:40,199
enjoy that very much. But I think for the paranormal side,

899
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,880
I tend to be well just dressing normal clothing really,

900
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,840
but I do tours of local halls and I do

901
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,880
tend to wear Victorian clothing for that. Really, I think

902
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,079
the Victorian period with a guard's ghost to it is superb.

903
00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:56,400
And only yesterday I was invited to a local college

904
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:02,000
to go on the stage where they put a desk

905
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,239
and a candle and to quite a large audience for

906
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,159
kids and teachers, I brought the Christmas Carol to life

907
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:13,800
and that's one of the greatest ghost stories in British

908
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,440
history and really brings up the best of Charles Dickens.

909
00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:25,119
Speaker 1: Really, that's fantastic. Yeah, absolutely, And I think when we

910
00:53:25,159 --> 00:53:27,679
think a little bit about the paranormal the Victorian era,

911
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,360
we think about the Foxes, when we think about in

912
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,559
America the Fox's sisters, and then what that looked like

913
00:53:34,639 --> 00:53:36,639
for us, When we think a little bit about the

914
00:53:36,639 --> 00:53:41,119
British history of mediumship, I think the Victorian area has

915
00:53:41,119 --> 00:53:44,800
a lot to kind of set the corner stones really

916
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:54,280
for parapsychology and for physical mediumship as well transfiguration and whatnot. Yeah, yeah,

917
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,559
I think my most favorite, my most Next year, I'm hoping, well,

918
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:02,199
what I'm planning to do is the Conductor, a Victorian

919
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,360
style investigation within a beautiful manor house. We've just been

920
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,440
given the okay to be able to do it. So yeah,

921
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,159
so that's something that I'll keep you updated with Simon.

922
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 3: That sounds great, it really does. That sounds lovely. I

923
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,239
can imagine every room will have a different story, every

924
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:22,840
room the story.

925
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I've got some videos so I'll send

926
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:28,800
them marry to you. But that's the building itself is

927
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,679
absolutely stunning. But yes, thank you, Thank you so much

928
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,960
for your time. Thank you for joining us this evening.

929
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:39,519
It's been really lovely to hear your stories. We'll link

930
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,280
your YouTube channel and anything that we see you have

931
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,199
coming up for some of our listeners and watchers to

932
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:49,880
have a look look at themselves. But with that, I

933
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,159
just want to say thank you so much for joining us.

934
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 3: The pleasure has been all mine. I really have enjoyed.

935
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,239
It's been a pleasure meeting you both. It really has

936
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,960
Thank you for kindly having me.

937
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, and I hope you enjoy your

938
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,800
well earned Christmas break and also just want to just

939
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,079
wish happy holidays and a merry Christmas to everyone that's

940
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:16,719
watching and listening, and we will see you in twenty

941
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:23,199
twenty five. Twenty twenty five, How quick has that gone.

942
00:55:23,519 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 2: It's frightening, isn't it. It's king to.

943
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,519
Speaker 1: Absolutely so good night everyone, and thank you so much

944
00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:31,320
for joining us.

945
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much