Speaker 1: I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder
Speaker 1: and weirder, and finally it's going to be so weird
Speaker 1: that people are going to have to talk about how
Speaker 1: weird it is. Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm
Speaker 1: your host Chris Matthew. Today my guest is Jared Woods.
Speaker 1: Be sure and check out our merchshop. Amazing shirt designs.
Speaker 1: We've got shirts from the films as well. I am
Speaker 1: wearing the Doors of Perception shirt right here. Use the
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Speaker 1: of Perception on Amazon Prime. I am booking guests for September.
Speaker 1: If you have suggestions or you'd like to be a guest,
Speaker 1: email me Forbidden Knowledgenews at gmail dot com. Today I
Speaker 1: want to welcome Jared Woods. He is an author, artist, traveler,
Speaker 1: and theological researcher. Jared, welcome.
Speaker 2: How you doing, mates, I'm so good, so s happy
Speaker 2: to be Christen having a wonderful day. So it's good
Speaker 2: to see him.
Speaker 1: Man, yeah, man, looking forward to this. We're going to
Speaker 1: be getting into your book Jesus Was a Shape Shifting
Speaker 1: Alien and twenty two other Christ Conspiracies. It's a collection
Speaker 1: of esoteric and occult themed theories exploring what you call
Speaker 1: Christ conspiracies, which includes the classic gnostic Christ, the mystery
Speaker 1: cult possibilities, even ancient alien interpretations. In my personal journey,
Speaker 1: the teachings of Christ have been such a powerful spiritual
Speaker 1: foundation in my perspective, it doesn't really matter if he
Speaker 1: was an alien or an archetype or a man. His
Speaker 1: teachings have impacted humanity in an extremely powerful way, and
Speaker 1: I'm very open minded as to who or what Jesus
Speaker 1: really was. You seem to have covered all the possibility,
Speaker 1: so looking forward to getting into this. Before we do,
Speaker 1: this is your first time on tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about your yourself and let the audience know how
Speaker 1: they can find more.
Speaker 2: Great Well, thank you for that excellent introduction, mate, And
Speaker 2: a little bit about myself. My background is in I'm
Speaker 2: an author, so I've written quite a few books on
Speaker 2: various topics, from self help to music related topics, but
Speaker 2: my passion has always been comparative religion. So I spend
Speaker 2: once a year I read a holy text. So whether
Speaker 2: that be the Corona, or the Bible, or the Satanic
Speaker 2: Bible or the Scientology. You know, every year, for the
Speaker 2: last I believe it's eleven years now, I've read one
Speaker 2: of those. At the same time, I travel full time.
Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate as being an author. All I need
Speaker 2: is WiFi so I can get to explore the world,
Speaker 2: and I've used that. I mostly select the locations that
Speaker 2: are extremely potent with their spiritual reputations, for example India
Speaker 2: or Central Australia or South America. You know, I've done
Speaker 2: pretty well with my travels extensively, and so all of
Speaker 2: that kind of feeds into my passion for writing about theology.
Speaker 2: Last year I had a kind of what I thought
Speaker 2: was a really good idea. I rewrote the story of
Speaker 2: Christ the four Gospels as one timeline, and I also
Speaker 2: added two hundred and fifty non canonical texts that speak
Speaker 2: about Jesus's story, the Gnostics ones, of course, and then
Speaker 2: other ones that vary in like debatable with the authenticeship,
Speaker 2: but the authenticity rather. But the idea was not to
Speaker 2: present what I say is the most factual presentation of Jesus.
Speaker 2: But the idea was to give the most thorough story
Speaker 2: of Jesus. I wanted to make sure that everything that's
Speaker 2: ever been kind of said about it or hypothesize was there,
Speaker 2: even when contradictory. I'll say that some people say this,
Speaker 2: some people say that anyway, on this great mission that
Speaker 2: was really just taught me so much about Jesus, who
Speaker 2: I am a huge fan of. Despite not being completely Christian.
Speaker 2: I did find a lot of strange works. For example,
Speaker 2: Jesus was an Alien was a theory that I just
Speaker 2: did not feel was scholarly enough to put into what
Speaker 2: was supposed to be a very serious work. So when
Speaker 2: I finished what I called the Gospel of Christ last year,
Speaker 2: I had all these kind of very interesting theories that
Speaker 2: just couldn't fit into a serious narrative. And then I
Speaker 2: was like, well, actually I should. This is actually an
Speaker 2: even better book to compile these together, these very in depth,
Speaker 2: strange and sometimes you know, sometimes they're really out there,
Speaker 2: but sometimes they does feel like there's something to them,
Speaker 2: and just put them in one place and without an agenda,
Speaker 2: I argue foreign against each theory, and just to present
Speaker 2: them as like a complete collection, and I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, it is really a testament to Jesus that
Speaker 2: I managed to find twenty three very distinct conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2: It just shows how wide his influences and how much
Speaker 2: attention and fascination there is with the story two thousand
Speaker 2: years later, that there's still so much content to write
Speaker 2: a book like this right on.
Speaker 1: Man and you mentioned that you're not particularly Christian.
Speaker 2: Do you have.
Speaker 1: Any spiritual leanings or particular lens that you viewed everything through?
Speaker 2: Yes, I am. I am. I'd like to say that
Speaker 2: I'm spiritual. It's taken me a long time of soul
Speaker 2: seeking and, as I say, a lot of travels to
Speaker 2: really define what that is for me. And I think
Speaker 2: I've found something that makes sense to me and is
Speaker 2: quite unique. But for me there is I do find
Speaker 2: what I love about comparative religion is finding what the differences,
Speaker 2: because that justifies their existences. Each religion has to be different,
Speaker 2: otherwise they'll be redundant, but more importantly the similarities. And
Speaker 2: I just am so fascinated with how so similar every
Speaker 2: religion really is when you get down to not what
Speaker 2: the organizations say and not what people have developed and
Speaker 2: denominations developed, but what the profits all said really is
Speaker 2: very much in tune with each other, and so that's
Speaker 2: what fascinates me. So when it comes to writing by Jesus,
Speaker 2: it's really is through the lens of Jesus. I think
Speaker 2: for good reason that Christianity as the most popular religion
Speaker 2: in the world is because as teachings were revolutionary and
Speaker 2: also incredibly you know, forgiving and kind and you know
Speaker 2: things that's still the world desperately needs. And even people
Speaker 2: who call themselves Christians are not following as well as
Speaker 2: we would hope. So there's still there's still you know,
Speaker 2: we have still not even exhausted the power of Christ
Speaker 2: even remotely in our current age. Right.
Speaker 1: Another aspect I would add is that they're very easy
Speaker 1: for most people to understand the concept behind the teachings.
Speaker 1: It just adds to I believe the power and the
Speaker 1: popularity of Jesus christ teachings. Let's go through some of
Speaker 1: the chapters, some of the theories that you've come up with,
Speaker 1: see what comes out. We could start with Jesus was
Speaker 1: a shape shifting alien.
Speaker 2: Yes, so, I mean, this is an interesting theory. But
Speaker 2: I think the best thing is that as a title,
Speaker 2: it's very it grabs your attention. Already there's been a
Speaker 2: bit of pushback on we're going to imagine you can't
Speaker 2: matter of course, But I just always want to remind
Speaker 2: people the best thing to do is read the book.
Speaker 2: You'll find that I present the case on both sides,
Speaker 2: and these are theories that pre existed. It's not like
Speaker 2: I'm making them up, right, But yeah, I think the
Speaker 2: you know, I know on your show you've spoken about
Speaker 2: this type of thing before. The Nephilim is obviously so
Speaker 2: aliens and the watches have all been tied to Biblical
Speaker 2: mythology anyway, so there's already that. So I do start
Speaker 2: with that. I start with how there was possibly these
Speaker 2: these watches that came and bred with women and then
Speaker 2: the Nephlim were born, and that was kind of the
Speaker 2: missing Lincoln away. But how a lot of scholars now
Speaker 2: are leaning, especially more scientifically inclined scholars, are leaning closer
Speaker 2: to towards the idea that these weren't angels, but there were aliens.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's lots of different scripture you can
Speaker 2: talk about. One of the most famous ones, I guess
Speaker 2: is like how biblically accurate aliens are described as wheels
Speaker 2: within wheels within wheels, which is a technological thing rather
Speaker 2: than anything you would associate with angels. So from there
Speaker 2: I built into the idea that if that's the case,
Speaker 2: and every angel sighting or experience could possibly be looked
Speaker 2: through the lens of alien then we were talking about
Speaker 2: we talk about Mother Mary. We took about how the
Speaker 2: imactive conception was actually if you look at it was
Speaker 2: an artificial insemination and the fact that she was there
Speaker 2: was no intercourse. There was an insemination without intercourse. So
Speaker 2: that is an artificial insemination, which a lot of people
Speaker 2: put that would you know, they say that aliens have
Speaker 2: been doing that. Anyway, the Star of Bethfieldhem appeared with
Speaker 2: the birth of Jesus, and he was a a child
Speaker 2: that you know, had exceptional powers from from the beginning,
Speaker 2: you know, so really there was this kind of this
Speaker 2: otherworldly aspect to it. But of course I think one
Speaker 2: of the major things was, well, you know, what's really
Speaker 2: interesting actually is that the Gospel of Mark, which is
Speaker 2: the first gospel. You know, we had this wonderful uh
Speaker 2: story of Mary and the virgin birth, but that is
Speaker 2: actually quite late. It was many many decades after the
Speaker 2: fact that Matthew and Luke brought those two two up.
Speaker 2: But the first gospel that we know of is called
Speaker 2: Mark is Mark's one, and that and Jesus just appears
Speaker 2: as as already a full grown man and starts as ministry.
Speaker 2: There's actually another gospel that has since been lost, but
Speaker 2: it's it's the Gospel of I'd never not to say
Speaker 2: this name, and I'm so apologized, but because I only
Speaker 2: have read it. It's like Marcion or Marchion or something
Speaker 2: like that. But it's a he was a guy who
Speaker 2: they believed just rewrote Luke. But their scholars now that
Speaker 2: have a theory called the marsh Priority theory, and they
Speaker 2: believe that it was actually before or the other gospels.
Speaker 2: And in that gospel, Jesus floats down from the sky
Speaker 2: as an adult man and begins his ministry. So again
Speaker 2: that kind of ties into Okay, something's coming from you know,
Speaker 2: in the olden days you see something from the sky,
Speaker 2: you think heavens. Now that we are kind of moving
Speaker 2: away from these mythological ideas and more into science, coming
Speaker 2: from the sky, we know that space. So again it
Speaker 2: kind of ties into this from above. And always it's
Speaker 2: a voice from above. It's always Jesus on the right
Speaker 2: hand of God on the clouds. So there's always these kind.
Speaker 1: Of So you say, the earliest writings about Christ don't
Speaker 1: acknowledge his birth or any event surrounding it at all.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the very very first writings we have of Christianity
Speaker 2: was the Poor Apostle Letters, which actually don't deal with
Speaker 2: Jesus's life at all. There was just poor He kind
Speaker 2: of spoke, he was trying to he was trying to
Speaker 2: kind of iron out the logical disputes and kind of
Speaker 2: build up more of a like an organizational aspect of Christianity.
Speaker 2: So it took it took a couple of decades before
Speaker 2: we got Mark. But yeah, as I said, the Gospel
Speaker 2: of Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, that was
Speaker 2: zero mention of of of Mary I think was mentioned
Speaker 2: as a name, but never as a virgin birth, and
Speaker 2: never as as a mother, which you think would be included,
Speaker 2: because that is quite a bit, quite a giant aspect
Speaker 2: of of what was so miraculous about his life. But
Speaker 2: you know, it took, it took another couple of decades.
Speaker 2: I wish I had the exact numbers, but I would
Speaker 2: estimate six or seven even maybe longer than that. Decades
Speaker 2: before the virgin birth was first mentioned in the Luke
Speaker 2: or Matthew. But as I say, there were other texts
Speaker 2: that were our hYP hypothesized to be as early as
Speaker 2: Mark that spoke about Jesus just coming from the sky
Speaker 2: as a full grown man.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, you sign another interesting point that oftentimes
Speaker 1: Jesus was unrecognizable to those that were closest to him.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, exactly, I'm so glad that's exactly. The next
Speaker 2: point was, because you know, these days, a lot of
Speaker 2: these kind of David Iike types of conspiracy theories speak
Speaker 2: about how it's we have shape shifting aliens among us
Speaker 2: right now. So that's a common theory, and so you know,
Speaker 2: and then there's a lot of shape shifting evidence inside
Speaker 2: and outside the Bible of Jesus. The most famous ones were,
Speaker 2: for example, when he first resurrected, Mary Magdalen was by
Speaker 2: the tomb. It was empty. She runs straight, almost knocks
Speaker 2: into the gardener. She accuses the gardener of stealing the body.
Speaker 2: The gardener says, Mary, it's me. And then only then
Speaker 2: she goes, oh, this this is Jesus. There is also
Speaker 2: a very famous one, of course, I mean, Jesus was
Speaker 2: a huge figure with a massive following, the most famous
Speaker 2: person in Jerusalem, they would say at the time. And
Speaker 2: yet Jesus said to the I mean Judas said to
Speaker 2: the Jewish priests, the man that I kiss is the
Speaker 2: man you need to arrest, because otherwise they wouldn't recognize
Speaker 2: him because he only the disciples could see which one
Speaker 2: he was. He had to kiss the guy and to
Speaker 2: identify him so they could take him away. And there's
Speaker 2: many other examples after the resurrec after the you know,
Speaker 2: during the resurrection, I wish I could remember. There's two apostles.
Speaker 2: One of them is nameless and the other has a
Speaker 2: name I've forgotten. But they walked from Jerusalem to the
Speaker 2: next town. A man walks with them the whole way,
Speaker 2: and they chat the whole way. They sit down, they
Speaker 2: have a meal, and when this stranger breaks the bread,
Speaker 2: they realizes Jesus and he disappears. So these are curious
Speaker 2: day biblical in the Gospels, instances of Jesus changing shape,
Speaker 2: and this is not This is very very prevalent across
Speaker 2: a lot of scripture, like a non canonical scripture. There's
Speaker 2: there's stories of him changing shape in front of people unrecognizable,
Speaker 2: there's a there's the transfiguration of don't if you remember
Speaker 2: that story. He's on a mountain and he kind of
Speaker 2: glows white. I think, I think it's like what I
Speaker 2: wish I could remember. But one of the non canonical
Speaker 2: gospels talks about how he changes into a short, old man.
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's there's lots of very
Speaker 2: strange things going on there, whatever that might mean.
Speaker 1: I love that you did this because, as it is,
Speaker 1: there is infinite ways to interpret biblical scripture and spiritual stories.
Speaker 1: So breaking down just the stories about Jesus gives a
Speaker 1: more focused lens for people to look at things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I think like one thing that I
Speaker 2: do constantly go back to in the book is that
Speaker 2: there's so many occasions where someone like the Romans or
Speaker 2: people like the Jewish priests at the time, you know,
Speaker 2: a couple of decades after his death, it would be
Speaker 2: so easy for them to say that this guy didn't exist,
Speaker 2: he was made up. But instead, it's like every story,
Speaker 2: no matter whether you think it's an alien or whether
Speaker 2: you think it's a sorcerer, it's always he was some historical,
Speaker 2: extremely powerful figure with all these stories that revolve around
Speaker 2: him that a lot of people deny his existence today,
Speaker 2: but that's a very very recent development. For thousands of years,
Speaker 2: I was never even brought up really as a question.
Speaker 2: It was always trying to explain his powers, rather than
Speaker 2: say this guy was made up. So I think all
Speaker 2: these stories are kind of a testament to at least
Speaker 2: some figure who had an incredible abilities.
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into some many that I've never heard of,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure men in the audience haven't either. Jesus
Speaker 1: was a holographic time traveler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the That's the second chapter.
Speaker 2: And I think there's there's a lot of similarities between
Speaker 2: the first and second chapter, but there is the reason
Speaker 2: why I put those together, was why I split as
Speaker 2: a part, is because I feel like there was enough
Speaker 2: distinction to justify it. So, first of all, Jesus was
Speaker 2: a prophet in the purest sense. He predicted many many things.
Speaker 2: He predicted, you know, he predicted his death, He predicted
Speaker 2: the fall of the temple, which happened forty years after
Speaker 2: his death, and he wish that's not even in the
Speaker 2: Bible that that was That's a historical fact, the Romans
Speaker 2: destroyed it. And I think to me, the most incredible
Speaker 2: thing that that was predicted by Jesus according to the scripture,
Speaker 2: was he said that everyone to the ends of the
Speaker 2: earth will know my name. That's still that's like never
Speaker 2: been true. It's as true still today as that was.
Speaker 2: And that's a bold thing for someone who was in
Speaker 2: a very limited geographical position with a couple of thousand
Speaker 2: followers to declare, now is in here with seven billion
Speaker 2: people and you know, everyone who is, you know, past
Speaker 2: a certain age has probably heard his name of you know,
Speaker 2: you're looking at billions of billions of people know him.
Speaker 2: So that was an incredible prediction. Another thing about that
Speaker 2: about why he might be a time traveler is that
Speaker 2: he's thought. He was so progressive in what he is,
Speaker 2: what he taught. He talked for forgiveness, he talked dignity
Speaker 2: between people, he talked, he talked like yeah, no, non violence.
Speaker 2: These things were incredibly forward thinking at the time when
Speaker 2: they were living, and you know, and and and jerusal
Speaker 2: the time, it was a very unforgiving, brutal society. And
Speaker 2: so he came from this quiet, forward thinking place. But
Speaker 2: the hologrammic aspect is actually incredibly interesting as well. So
Speaker 2: so going back to Mary and the gardener, she tries
Speaker 2: to touch him and he says, don't touch me. But
Speaker 2: you can't touch me because I haven't haven't quite yet
Speaker 2: like fully formed. There's something to that effect, which I
Speaker 2: thought was really good, and I actually just wanted to
Speaker 2: pull this up because there is. Yeah, there's a there's
Speaker 2: a non canonical uh uh, a scripture called the Acts
Speaker 2: of John, and he talks about he says, sometimes when
Speaker 2: I would lay hold of him, I met with a
Speaker 2: material and solid body. And at other times, again when
Speaker 2: I felt him, the substance was immaterial, as if it
Speaker 2: existed not at all. So he was talking about how
Speaker 2: you would touch him in his hand and go through him.
Speaker 2: There's also on that in that same scripture that he
Speaker 2: he Jesus was walking in there's no footprints. Everyone leaves
Speaker 2: for foot Princeville, but Jesus. So these are the kind
Speaker 2: of things that lend itself to how he would sometimes
Speaker 2: appear and disappear, how he could walk on water, these
Speaker 2: types of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, some of the wildest, most interesting stories come
Speaker 1: from the non canonical books from both times.
Speaker 2: They're they're great Yeah. Yeah, sometimes it's like you kind
Speaker 2: of wish they're included in the Bible, and sometimes you
Speaker 2: realize why they weren't included in the Bible because it's
Speaker 2: just really weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when it comes to Jesus being a time traveler,
Speaker 1: this would also mesh with why the story of Christ
Speaker 1: essentially repeats through different historical periods throughout different theological beliefs.
Speaker 1: Many argue the details, but when you step back and
Speaker 1: look at the story as a whole, it's almost exactly
Speaker 1: the same throughout different time periods.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that is so fascinating and something
Speaker 2: that I'm just so interested in. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: you get the kind of zeitgeist version of that, where
Speaker 2: it's all like a mythology that's been repeated. But I
Speaker 2: think there's there's this very interesting idea I don't know
Speaker 2: if you're aware of. There's a relusion could be high
Speaker 2: faith and there is story is that there's kind of
Speaker 2: a you can call it Christ consciousness, so you can
Speaker 2: call it the Buddha or whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 2: but there is this kind of repetitive energy that that
Speaker 2: comes into the world every time. There's kind of a
Speaker 2: spiritual imbalance and it comes to rectify this. And Jesus
Speaker 2: actually does mention kind of like this in a way,
Speaker 2: he's going back to the time traveling thing in the Bible.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why they really turned against him
Speaker 2: was he speaks about how he was there with Moses.
Speaker 2: He talks about how he was there from the beginning
Speaker 2: of time, how he knew Abraham, which is kind of
Speaker 2: indication of this kind of rebirth process. And and yeah,
Speaker 2: again it's like the high Faith, you know, believes so
Speaker 2: these the extents to people like Confucius, extents to Mohammed,
Speaker 2: to certain Native American tribe leaders. So yeah, I love
Speaker 2: to believe that that there's this type of that that
Speaker 2: Jesus is one thing. Jesus was a manifestation a human
Speaker 2: and at a certain point in period and history, but
Speaker 2: that Christ was different. Christ was a title which is
Speaker 2: actually an anointed title. It's the anointed one that actually
Speaker 2: is continuously repeated because Christ has said Jesus said time
Speaker 2: and time again, I will come again, and people are like,
Speaker 2: he never came back. But it's like, because you're waiting
Speaker 2: for Jesus, you're waiting for a human to come again.
Speaker 2: That's not how it works. Perhaps perhaps he's talking about
Speaker 2: a christ energy that actually has come back and we
Speaker 2: just don't we just don't register it. It's a theory, you know,
Speaker 2: but I enjoyed the idea.
Speaker 1: He also made several predictions that have come to pass
Speaker 1: which could also indicate the time travel aspect as well.
Speaker 2: Right, definitely, no, No, he made loads of those, But
Speaker 2: he also made a couple of My biggest thing about
Speaker 2: the time traveler thing as an argument against it, is
Speaker 2: that Christianity there's been so much death in the name
Speaker 2: of it. There's been so many people who have distorted it.
Speaker 2: They've weaponized Jesus for all stars of hatred towards demographics
Speaker 2: of people, and I find it kind of weird, Like
Speaker 2: maybe you know, if Jesus was a time traveler, he
Speaker 2: might be like, Hm, I need to reword this a
Speaker 2: little bit stronger so people don't mess this up where
Speaker 2: they Yeah, there's been just a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: I think for the majority of Christians, it's been a
Speaker 2: very beneficial religion, but they're just unfortunately there has just
Speaker 2: been so much pain caused by it. But every religion,
Speaker 2: I guess is has its faults.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you also pose the question, could his miracles be
Speaker 1: misunderstood science even in our modern age. As time goes on,
Speaker 1: several things that we once considered to be miracles are
Speaker 1: woo woo or mystical now we understand as a form
Speaker 1: of science. And I'm sure ten twenty years from now
Speaker 1: we will see those things differently than we see them now.
Speaker 1: But that also could connect with the time travel theory
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, definitely, definitely, yeah, yeah, no, he yeah, he was
Speaker 2: I mean, above all else, Jesus was a healer. That
Speaker 2: was his number one miracle that he performed. So you know,
Speaker 2: he could just could really just be put down to
Speaker 2: advanced understanding of surgery, understanding of medicine, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: not quite sure how he brought certain characters back to life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's that's a good one. We still haven't caught
Speaker 2: up with that one just so yet.
Speaker 1: We also know that in our modern age there's a
Speaker 1: lot of psychological manipulation in what we would consider the
Speaker 1: occult in dark arts, and I think that's been implemented
Speaker 1: into our technology in many different ways which most people
Speaker 1: just look at now as part of technology, are part
Speaker 1: of human psychology. But our psychological states can be manipulated
Speaker 1: to a point where we have no idea if what
Speaker 1: we're seeing is real or not. And that's just based
Speaker 1: off of what we're subjected to today with our technology. So
Speaker 1: if he had these mystical abilities, if he really did
Speaker 1: study mystery schools and these different esoteric concepts, I'm sure
Speaker 1: he would have a great knowledge of human psychology and
Speaker 1: how to I don't want to say manipulate it, but
Speaker 1: kind of manipulate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Well, I mean this is the thing
Speaker 2: the very idea of I'm not saying he's a con man,
Speaker 2: but the idea of con man is a confidence man.
Speaker 2: And one thing that Jesus definitely was was a charismatic speaker.
Speaker 2: So he had people you would be useless, even if
Speaker 2: you had superhuman powers, even if you were born a
Speaker 2: certain way, you would be useless if you weren't able
Speaker 2: to pull a crowd. And one thing that Jesus was
Speaker 2: very proficient that was was to capture the imaginations of
Speaker 2: the people and have them following him with his public
Speaker 2: speaking abilities. So yeah, who knows, Yeah, he might have
Speaker 2: just just been incredibly convincing.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the possibility that Jesus' resurrection appearances were
Speaker 1: not physical.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a that is a good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the main things against that was, and kind
Speaker 2: of goes back to what we were saying, is that
Speaker 2: the original post, well, the the earliest earliest cightings, sorry,
Speaker 2: the earliest writings of Jesus were by Paul's letters, and
Speaker 2: he believed that he cited Jesus, but what he said
Speaker 2: he cited was very much just a vision. So the
Speaker 2: idea was that that that all these sightings of Jesus,
Speaker 2: you know, because he was cited by the disciples, he
Speaker 2: was cited by Mary, that there were other there were
Speaker 2: other causes of this, and some of them that have
Speaker 2: been proposed was grief trauma, memory distortion, cognitive refusal of acceptance,
Speaker 2: wish for thinking, sleep deprivation, fasting for too long, desperate expectations,
Speaker 2: spiritual trances or ecstatic epiphanies, or just simply mass hysteria
Speaker 2: and so also but the other thing that's interesting about this,
Speaker 2: and I think to take it a lot more seriously,
Speaker 2: is that there was a that originally Jesus was talking
Speaker 2: very much about a kind of there's a theory that
Speaker 2: he was kind of leading a political revolution. He was
Speaker 2: there to kind of overthrow the Jewish rule and the
Speaker 2: Roman occupation, and in doing so, he kind of all
Speaker 2: these disciples believed that he was he was. The disciples
Speaker 2: were promised kind of very higher positions after success. So
Speaker 2: when Jesus was Crucifer, the idea was that that now
Speaker 2: they lost a huge section of of you know, they
Speaker 2: all this kind of they were promised to a certain
Speaker 2: hierarchy and rankings that they weren't going to get. So
Speaker 2: they developed a story where that he he appeared to
Speaker 2: them and it became from he went from a military
Speaker 2: leader into then the prophetic figure that we now understand.
Speaker 2: So it was kind of like a made up story
Speaker 2: of of of a belief. But there's a there's a
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a very another interesting one. If we
Speaker 2: keep going back to the Gospels and how we spoke
Speaker 2: about the Mark being the first one, uh, the resurrection
Speaker 2: of Christ being seen was it was in Mark, but
Speaker 2: those lines were added many many decades afterwards, so it
Speaker 2: was kind of just written in almost like by hand.
Speaker 2: So there's there's there's a there's no one as like
Speaker 2: the second ending to Mark. So the resurrection of Christ
Speaker 2: wasn't really in Mark. Yeah, it wasn't really a Mark either.
Speaker 2: There was an angel in the tomb that said Jesus
Speaker 2: has risen, so there was kind of that in Mark.
Speaker 2: But the woman that discovered the empty tomb see at
Speaker 2: the second version of Mark, do actually bump into Jesus
Speaker 2: and they see him for themselves. That was added in
Speaker 2: decades later to probably be more congruent with the later
Speaker 2: Matthew and Luke to say, oh, there was deathnely a resurrection.
Speaker 2: So again, you know, the whole idea is unfortunately the
Speaker 2: skepticism comes, which just the length of time it took
Speaker 2: for these things to actually be noted.
Speaker 1: You also mentioned the ongoing visions that people have. You
Speaker 1: cited the visions in slices of toast or on the wall.
Speaker 1: Many people have vivid dreams or even meditation experience. Near
Speaker 1: death experience is where they need Jesus. That is still
Speaker 1: a powerful archetype that appears in many instances as people's consciousness.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great thing. And I think
Speaker 2: if that happens to you, you know, it's going to
Speaker 2: be difficult to convince other people that's happened to you.
Speaker 2: But if you if you know, spirituality is not a science,
Speaker 2: spirituality is something that that everyone needs to have as
Speaker 2: an individual experience. So you know, I'm more for that
Speaker 2: if someone if someone sees Jesus and a piece of
Speaker 2: toast but actually feels something about that, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that's great. Or you know, if they manage to
Speaker 2: make some money orf it, that's also you know, that's
Speaker 2: good for them. But I think, uh, I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's there's there's nothing worse than someone who's just
Speaker 2: super cynical or just very harsh on people who believe
Speaker 2: they've had these experiences. And for me, I think, you know,
Speaker 2: as long as you have had a positive experience and
Speaker 2: you don't use it to mistreat anyone else or in
Speaker 2: any way, I think who's to say what a what
Speaker 2: a spiritual experience has to be. So you know, I'm
Speaker 2: all for man, wherever you see Jesus or Buddha or
Speaker 2: whatever you want. I think it's it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's all. It's a beautiful thing as long as it yeah,
Speaker 2: as long as no one gets hurt.
Speaker 1: I want to get to one of your chapters that
Speaker 1: really stood out for me. Jesus was a mushroom all
Speaker 1: along being a former psycho not. This really stood out
Speaker 1: for me, so let's get into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's great because then you will understand a
Speaker 2: lot a lot of this. The funny thing about this
Speaker 2: is it's there was a guy called John m Allegro,
Speaker 2: I think that's how you pronounce his name. He was actually,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know much about the Dead
Speaker 2: Sea Scrolls. They found these scrolls that I kind of
Speaker 2: talk about the I think they called the Esseny's or
Speaker 2: they're kind of like a Jewish sect, and he was
Speaker 2: one of the main scholars on on the of these scrolls,
Speaker 2: so he had a good name for himself. And he
Speaker 2: was a teacher at the Manchester University and he came
Speaker 2: up with this theory which is slightly different than the
Speaker 2: one that I'm going to talk about, but it's he
Speaker 2: kind of popularized this idea that that Jesus was was
Speaker 2: a mushroom, kind of an allegory for a mushroom. And
Speaker 2: the poor guy, he got laughed out of the community.
Speaker 2: It was completely debunked in some ways or just disregarded
Speaker 2: at least, and there was and he lost his job,
Speaker 2: even though I think he quits just because it became
Speaker 2: so stressful for him. But when you look into this theory,
Speaker 2: there actually is a lot, a lot I found. You know,
Speaker 2: you hear the title Jesus was a mushroom. It sounds hilarious,
Speaker 2: but the more I dug into I'm like, there's a
Speaker 2: lot to this, and the it's it's times a few
Speaker 2: things we actually have spoken about. But at the time
Speaker 2: of Jesus, when he was in Jerusalem, we know that
Speaker 2: there was a big connection with the Greeks. The Greeks
Speaker 2: were there. There's mention of the Greeks. Jesus probably spoke
Speaker 2: a bit of Greek because we know that he communicated
Speaker 2: with Pontious Pilot and the only the only shared language
Speaker 2: there would be would be Greek. It was also Juruism
Speaker 2: was a massive trade town, so it was quite multicultural.
Speaker 2: So we know there was a Greece connection. And in
Speaker 2: Greek Greece at the time there were these mystery celts.
Speaker 2: The Dionysius cult is one of the most famous, and
Speaker 2: that one is specifically about. What we're talking about is
Speaker 2: that they would drink wine believed to be laced with drugs,
Speaker 2: whether it be opioids or some something or rather, and
Speaker 2: the entire point of it was to mimic the experience
Speaker 2: of death and then to come back to life and
Speaker 2: then to kind of then then first of all no
Speaker 2: longer be afraid of death, but second of all kind
Speaker 2: of had this experience that that completely changes your perspective.
Speaker 2: So and and as as many people who are that
Speaker 2: way inclined, No, there is that there is a thing
Speaker 2: on mushrooms called ego death, when when you kind of
Speaker 2: completely lose yourself and then come back, and people have
Speaker 2: have have different reports on that, but it's often considered
Speaker 2: to be quite quite a quite a foremanth of experience.
Speaker 2: So the idea with this is that that's actually what
Speaker 2: Jesus was. Tisn't to gnosticism a bit, but a lot
Speaker 2: of what Gnostics spoke about was that the resurrection. And
Speaker 2: I'm actually gonna pull this up here, but the resurrection
Speaker 2: was not real. This is what the Gnostics believe. It
Speaker 2: was a metaphorical thing. And there is a beautiful The
Speaker 2: Gospel of Philip, which is one of the more famous ones,
Speaker 2: talks about how he says here those who say that
Speaker 2: they'll die first and then they'll rise are wrong. If
Speaker 2: they don't first receive the resurrection while they're living, they
Speaker 2: won't receive anything when they die. So the idea of
Speaker 2: the gnosticism is about gaining the knowledge of death. So
Speaker 2: the resurrection wasn't literal. It was that we all need
Speaker 2: to die and be reborn, and the ideas through these drugs,
Speaker 2: which kind of makes sense in a way, because Jesus said,
Speaker 2: I am bread, Eat me bread, being a yuse, being
Speaker 2: a fungish, I am wine, drink me intoxications that he
Speaker 2: was welcoming us to eat and drink as him, and
Speaker 2: so that's kind of the the concept behind that that
Speaker 2: it's all allegory.
Speaker 1: Another reason that stood out for me is because my
Speaker 1: very last psychedelic experience, the most profound experience I've ever had,
Speaker 1: led me to my current you could say, relationship with Christ.
Speaker 1: It was a very much near death experience in my perspective,
Speaker 1: that brought me to a physical outcome during the experience
Speaker 1: that couldn't be denied. It actually brought me to a
Speaker 1: preacher's house. I'm not going to get into the full story,
Speaker 1: it's a very long story, but it was so profound
Speaker 1: that I could not deny at least the power of
Speaker 1: the Christ archetype.
Speaker 2: After that experience, Matt's first of all, I would love
Speaker 2: to hear that story at some points.
Speaker 1: But it's on one of my episodes.
Speaker 2: Also, ye send that to me because that sounds great.
Speaker 2: But you were literally one hundred percent applying yourself to
Speaker 2: the Gnostic process. You were, you were exactly you're achieving
Speaker 2: what these Gnostic scriptures asking us to achieve. So I
Speaker 2: think that's that's a beautiful thing. Man, however you get there.
Speaker 1: You know, anything else relating to psychedelic Christ before we
Speaker 1: move on from that, I mean, the.
Speaker 2: One thing I just wanted to say was that John
Speaker 2: m Legro one of the reasons why I think his
Speaker 2: theory was kind of lost a bit is because he
Speaker 2: actually also went further that the Celts were not only
Speaker 2: drug related, but they were massively about fertility. So he
Speaker 2: was basically composing that Jesus was doing these mass orgies
Speaker 2: or that the Christians were just basically a Celt of
Speaker 2: mass auguries drug taking. And he would say things like
Speaker 2: the cross is quite phallic, and the mushroom is quite phallic,
Speaker 2: and these types of things are why the guy lost
Speaker 2: his job.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I can see that, I could see that.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to Jesus is already here
Speaker 1: and he is AI. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one is close to my heart because I
Speaker 2: have a I'm a creative obviously I'm a writer, but
Speaker 2: I also do a lot of art stuff, So AI
Speaker 2: is a tricky one for me. It's really kind of
Speaker 2: messed the industry. But what I like about this chapter
Speaker 2: is I do see people kind of writing about similar
Speaker 2: stuff because it's such a new idea. The theories in
Speaker 2: my book are much more fresh and I think more independent.
Speaker 2: A lot of the other theories I kind of repurposed
Speaker 2: and rewrote and put my swing touch on it, but
Speaker 2: this one is pretty much all me but the main
Speaker 2: I mean, I can go into many many aspects, but
Speaker 2: I think when we talk about the Bible and we
Speaker 2: talk about conspiracy theories, generally they go hand in hand
Speaker 2: with the Book of Revelation. It's always about the Book
Speaker 2: of Revelation. The number of the Beast is always tied
Speaker 2: into this, and there's always really fascinating ways that people
Speaker 2: have used this apocalyptic prediction text to tie into other
Speaker 2: ways that the world might end. But I find the
Speaker 2: AI one is stronger than the other ones that I've
Speaker 2: come across. First of all, it talks about a beast
Speaker 2: that will arise builth from from like amalgamation of contents.
Speaker 2: It talks about like a leopard and a band of
Speaker 2: line and dragon with seven heads, keeping in mind that
Speaker 2: there's seven tech companies Alphabet, Amazon and Apple, Meta, Microsoft,
Speaker 2: Navidia and Tesla or the main ones. One of the
Speaker 2: monster's heads is supposed to have a wound over here,
Speaker 2: which kind of could be allusion to Elil Musk's neuralink.
Speaker 2: But that's that's that's barely any of It's one of
Speaker 2: the main main things that they say of this beast
Speaker 2: that is going to rise is that it's going to
Speaker 2: deceive us. It's going to see the inhabitants of the earth.
Speaker 2: And if you look at AI, what is it doing.
Speaker 2: You can't trust photos anymore, there's deep face. These chatbots
Speaker 2: are just pandering to you, telling you what you want
Speaker 2: to hear, and it's all very much fake information that
Speaker 2: you can't trust anything anymore. And it talks about how
Speaker 2: people wouldn't care. People don't care if you can trust
Speaker 2: it or not. They just really really enjoy it. And
Speaker 2: then what so then what event? What revelation says and
Speaker 2: the merchants of earth sore, weep and mourn for no
Speaker 2: one buys their merchandise anymore. So that's industries being completely
Speaker 2: taken over and cut off and people and a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of industries are losing money because of AI. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and of course, of course that them. And he goes
Speaker 2: straight to the billionaires and the CEOs, which Jesus warned against.
Speaker 2: He was always warning against these people that worship money.
Speaker 2: You can't serve both garden money, he said. But I
Speaker 2: think the most to me, the most potent thing was
Speaker 2: that AI data centers. You know, they're talking about five
Speaker 2: million gallons gallons of water per day. It's just the
Speaker 2: type of water that these these data centers require. And
Speaker 2: if you look at what the Bibles with their revelations, says,
Speaker 2: a third of the waters turned bitter and many people
Speaker 2: died from the waters. Now that are these people that
Speaker 2: can't drink from their faucets anymore because the data setters
Speaker 2: that have poisoned the water. It says great rivers dried
Speaker 2: up to prepare the way for kings. So it's like
Speaker 2: the rivers are going to dry up to prepare the
Speaker 2: wave for the millionaire kings, which are like the kings
Speaker 2: of today really, and the rivers and springs of water
Speaker 2: became blood. So these kind of you know, it's really
Speaker 2: just warns, well the deceits that the lines that we
Speaker 2: see and the water use is going to be crazy.
Speaker 2: But it even says it's like, why would we let
Speaker 2: this happen? The Bible says the whole earth marveled and
Speaker 2: followed the beast because it looks soft like a lamb,
Speaker 2: but it speaks like a dragon. Yeah. So there's a
Speaker 2: lots of little other things. Yeah, but it just seems
Speaker 2: like you can definitely look at it through that lens.
Speaker 1: You also asked the question, if humanity creates something more
Speaker 1: intelligent than itself, have we effectively created God? And I
Speaker 1: always say that if God created us based on a
Speaker 1: perfect divine foundation, and and us as humans are extremely flawed,
Speaker 1: shit shows most of the time, and we create life,
Speaker 1: what does that reflection end up looking like when it
Speaker 1: comes to growth and fruition.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I lose sleep over these types of things, man.
Speaker 2: I find it very scary. I mean, I mean, AI
Speaker 2: is incredibly useful, and no one's denying ads, and there's
Speaker 2: definitely beautiful things about you know, some of the medical
Speaker 2: breakthroughs and AI I think are incredible. But yeah, for
Speaker 2: the most part, I just I worry about the environmental impact.
Speaker 2: I worry about There's just so many people, even I
Speaker 2: have a lot of graphic designer friends that are just
Speaker 2: out of work, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, We're in a very interesting time. I think
Speaker 1: we have some big decisions to make as humanity about
Speaker 1: what we want to give our energy and attention to.
Speaker 1: And I don't think it should be AI. At least
Speaker 1: the direction that it's headed now has very strong potential
Speaker 1: for a negative impact. To say the least, I not.
Speaker 2: You know, I've I have very few things have scared
Speaker 2: me in my life, and I think AI is the
Speaker 2: first time that I really just it was such an
Speaker 2: immediate and undeniable impact, and so it just feels at
Speaker 2: the tip of the iceberg. Man, We've only just entered
Speaker 2: the roller coaster. And I think, yeah, it makes me
Speaker 2: very nervous. What makes me nervous most of all is
Speaker 2: just the people in control of it. It's not so
Speaker 2: much what it does. But I don't trust these these
Speaker 2: massive billion CEOs with in control of this kind of technology. Man,
Speaker 2: it's terrifying. One the wrong.
Speaker 1: Let's get into Jesus's missing years. This has always fascinated me,
Speaker 1: the possibilities that there may be some kind of documentation
Speaker 1: out there that suggests he was traveling the world and
Speaker 1: learning these mystery traditions.
Speaker 2: M yeah, that's well, I guess I think probably of
Speaker 2: all these things, that might be the oldest one that's
Speaker 2: got to be because it's always been. The Church has
Speaker 2: never really given the explanation for it. They've kind of
Speaker 2: just said, well, while he was working with his dad
Speaker 2: doing carpentry. But there's not a single shred of actual documentation.
Speaker 2: I mean there is. There has been a lot of
Speaker 2: things that have been written kind of almost like a
Speaker 2: fan fictions about that. But yeah, the in the book,
Speaker 2: I kind of cover a few options, but they generally
Speaker 2: go towards a lot of them kind of suggest that
Speaker 2: he went east, either to India or even to Japan.
Speaker 2: But I think the Indian one, Yeah, Japan was a
Speaker 2: weird one. Yeah, the documentation is it's so fascinating and
Speaker 2: also so blatantly fabricated. No one has any belief in that,
Speaker 2: but the one in India, there's many books written about that.
Speaker 2: They really do believe that there was a good chance
Speaker 2: that he was there makes sense in a lot of
Speaker 2: ways because his teachings, as we said, very revolutionary, but
Speaker 2: very He's not I wouldn't you know. They're not Buddhists,
Speaker 2: but they were not far off. Buddha was a very passive,
Speaker 2: non violent type of preacher. Jesus came with a similar
Speaker 2: message which was very contrary to the to the environment
Speaker 2: that he was in. So that's kind of I guess
Speaker 2: the basis of of that exact theory was, like how
Speaker 2: his his philosophy's just seemed a little more Eastern than
Speaker 2: the paganistic Romans or the Jewish traditions. But yeah, there
Speaker 2: was a guy and I forgot his name, unfortunately, but
Speaker 2: he claims that he found the temple and that they
Speaker 2: have they he found the documentation that kind of proved
Speaker 2: that Jesus spent some time in India. But there's a Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's another one as well, which is quite famous. I'm
Speaker 2: currently in the UK and just the other day I
Speaker 2: went to Glastonbury and there's I'd never been there to
Speaker 2: the not to the festival, but to the town. It's crazy, man,
Speaker 2: because it's like it's this mix of pagan druid culture
Speaker 2: with this very ancient a lot of conspiracy theories around Christianity.
Speaker 2: So the tourism there, it's like you're going to have
Speaker 2: like crystals and Mother Mary right next to each other,
Speaker 2: like Tara readings with like a big Jesus image. Just
Speaker 2: really this mishmash of this kind of paganistic English culture. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it is is really cool, But there was One of
Speaker 2: the stories was that him and his uncle went and
Speaker 2: sold tin in Glastonbury and then his uncle afterwards went
Speaker 2: there to build the first church ever and that's where
Speaker 2: the Holy Grail kind of comes from. That he bought
Speaker 2: the Codly Grail. I believe that that was just typical
Speaker 2: Britishness trying to claim a bit of the story for
Speaker 2: their own. That is my theory completely, because that's what
Speaker 2: the British do. You got to take a little slice.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: Any thoughts are research done about the possibility of Christ's
Speaker 1: tomb being in Japan? I've heard this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, that's the that's that's the other one. So
Speaker 2: there's a guy could and again I'm bad with pronunciation.
Speaker 2: I think it's good. Takeshi and he claimed that he
Speaker 2: found these documents that not only put Christ there, but
Speaker 2: I think it was like Muhammad was there, Moses was
Speaker 2: there everywhere, that that that basically Japan was the center
Speaker 2: of human creation, and that the kind of emperors at
Speaker 2: the time were basically deities. But yeah, I called Shingo Village,
Speaker 2: but they basically yeah, so they've they've they kind of
Speaker 2: those documents were lost unfortunately in World War two, uh so,
Speaker 2: and and they were never taking seriously from the beginning.
Speaker 2: But because then I think it was like lonely Planet,
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, kind of did a did a
Speaker 2: special on it, and then the tourism started to go
Speaker 2: there all the time, so then they this whole village
Speaker 2: just transformed into this Jesus theme park. And there there
Speaker 2: is a mound where there's a there's a cross on it,
Speaker 2: and they claim they have a bit of his hair there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they say that he lived there until it
Speaker 2: was one hundred and six because he escaped crucifixion and
Speaker 2: went there and and that then when it was one
Speaker 2: hundred and six, and yeah, and there's like a there's
Speaker 2: like a museum there claiming that that that that that's
Speaker 2: the case, and there's like a it's like there's even
Speaker 2: like a like almost like a quickie mart type of supermarket.
Speaker 2: That's all Jesus, Theamed biscuits and Jesus Theamed rice and
Speaker 2: and and uh Jerusalem Israel. They they actually recognize that
Speaker 2: they send her. They sent a stone there a part
Speaker 2: of like the Jerusalem. There's a Jerusalem stone that that's
Speaker 2: there as a gift. So it's it's gone out of
Speaker 2: control of anything. But I really want to go. I
Speaker 2: just want to go check that. So interesting. Yeah, really weird.
Speaker 2: But there's like zero chance, man, like there's there's like
Speaker 2: not there's even today there's very little Christian influence in
Speaker 2: that country. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the theories that you say may even
Speaker 1: be connected with this, it's often is is the possibility
Speaker 1: that Jesus was married with children and he has a
Speaker 1: bloodline that is carrying on christ bloodline.
Speaker 2: Absolute the I mean, I guess that's probably the most
Speaker 2: famous one thanks to Da Vinci code. That was one
Speaker 2: of the big ones. Yeah, you know, I I I
Speaker 2: think that's that's a very interesting one. I do cover that,
Speaker 2: but there is there is, Yeah, it's I think there is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's an interesting one. I think the one thing that
Speaker 2: I makes sense about that rather than it being true,
Speaker 2: is that there It would make sense that if that
Speaker 2: was true, how drastically they would need to suppress it,
Speaker 2: because if you were organization organizing a religion that had hierarchy,
Speaker 2: that had a pope, that had a bishop, that had
Speaker 2: you bishops and had priests, and this kind of which
Speaker 2: which Rome developed, this kind of Christianity, hierarchy of spirituality,
Speaker 2: that would go out the window. If there was descendants
Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ and the official story, if I if
Speaker 2: I remember, if there can be such a thing, is
Speaker 2: that it was a daughter that that was that was
Speaker 2: initially born, and then that would also you know, one
Speaker 2: of the big things about the Christianity, not what Christ said,
Speaker 2: but what what was developed in the Christian religion was
Speaker 2: a suppression of females. So that would go out the
Speaker 2: window as well, the bloodline the woman. So you know,
Speaker 2: the one thing that kind of does it kind of
Speaker 2: makes sense to me, is that not so much that
Speaker 2: that is true. It could be true. I mean, who's
Speaker 2: to say. And I do believe that him and Mary
Speaker 2: Magdalen might Mary Magdalen was written out the Bible furiously
Speaker 2: she was, but her name has been tainted and they
Speaker 2: just did everything they could to remove this woman, and
Speaker 2: there was a lot of non canonical scripture that places
Speaker 2: her at the absolute forefront of the disciples, So that
Speaker 2: much I can buy into. And so I don't know,
Speaker 2: did did did they? Were they in love? And did
Speaker 2: they mess around a bit? And you know, who's to say?
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, it doesn't seem that far
Speaker 2: fetched to me, but and yeah, I definitely agree that
Speaker 2: if it was the case, there would be a big
Speaker 2: operation of suppression, but I wouldn't who Who's who's to say?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right on, let's get into the possibility that Jesus
Speaker 1: died on the cross but didn't resurrect, his body was
Speaker 1: just stolen.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, So there's I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of these about about Jesus about how he wasn't he
Speaker 2: didn't die on the cross, that he just kind of fainted,
Speaker 2: And there's ones that he he replaced who was replaced
Speaker 2: with someone else? But yeah, yeah, these are already good.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the the this is actually what's interesting about
Speaker 2: this one is that there's a scripture about this about
Speaker 2: how they they And I'm so sorry, I'm just like
Speaker 2: double checking my notes. Share. No, it's all good, but
Speaker 2: there's like there were quite a few anti Christians written
Speaker 2: at the time that actually said that they they they
Speaker 2: did have the body and they paraded it around the
Speaker 2: streets just to like kind of show that it was yeah,
Speaker 2: that that that actually killed him. But the other there's
Speaker 2: like there's like less dramatic theories. For example, very very
Speaker 2: common in those days was that bodies were buried with families.
Speaker 2: Some people have said that the body was just removed
Speaker 2: to go to go to a proper burial site and
Speaker 2: then everyone was like, oh, is an empty tomb or
Speaker 2: or there was even a theory that there was massive
Speaker 2: concern that if they have them in the tomb, it's
Speaker 2: gonna have this have this big pilgrimage effect, so they
Speaker 2: just mad, they just removed it. There's even a very
Speaker 2: comedic version of this that the gardener was was the
Speaker 2: gardener that's that's mentioned the Bible was worried that people
Speaker 2: were gonna trample his flowers and his carrots and stuff,
Speaker 2: so he removed the body. Yeah. So there's just a
Speaker 2: whole whole bunch of these these things. But what's very
Speaker 2: what's the to me, what's actually this is what's cool
Speaker 2: about this one is that it is the original conspiracy
Speaker 2: theory in a way, but it's the other way around
Speaker 2: because according to this is and this is in the Bible,
Speaker 2: that was the official cause of this because when Jesus's
Speaker 2: body went missing, the high priests started to apparently spread
Speaker 2: a rumor and said Jesus's body was stolen. It was stolen,
Speaker 2: it was stolen, So that was the official word. So
Speaker 2: that was almost like the original conspiracy theory. And now
Speaker 2: it's kind of flipped around. But like the original story
Speaker 2: was no, his body was stolen. Now that's become the
Speaker 2: conspiracy theory, whereas the conspiracy theory was before was he
Speaker 2: actually came back to life, and now that's become the
Speaker 2: official version. So it's kind of this weird flip around
Speaker 2: that's happened. But yeah, but apparently the gods, according to
Speaker 2: the Gospel of Matthew, the gods of the tomb were
Speaker 2: paid money to spread to spread this rumor that he
Speaker 2: was stolen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right on, we'll do a couple of more
Speaker 1: and we'll close it out. I've never heard this one.
Speaker 1: After Jesus's resurrection, he visited the Americas. Tell us about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is completely based on the Latter day Saints
Speaker 2: and the Book of Mormon. So they believe that Jesus
Speaker 2: after his resurrection appeared in multiple places. I believe, but
Speaker 2: one of the one of the places was you know what,
Speaker 2: one of the I got to give credits with credits
Speaker 2: due with the Book of Mormon. It was very clever
Speaker 2: in that it did not specify locations, did not specify dates. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so there's no way to really prove or disprove this stuff.
Speaker 2: But their belief was that, well, according to John's stunt,
Speaker 2: John Joseph Smith, he yeah, he's his official account was
Speaker 2: that yet Jesus that the twelve in the Bible, there's
Speaker 2: the twelve Lost Tribes of Israel, and one of one
Speaker 2: of those was at that time had had migrated to
Speaker 2: South America's so Jesus's resurrection, he actually appeared in different
Speaker 2: places around the world to save these lost tribes of Israel,
Speaker 2: one of which being South America. And so we appeared
Speaker 2: to these who you are supposed to be the ancestors
Speaker 2: of the current indigenous Americans and kind of taught them,
Speaker 2: taught them, well, basically I have read it and it's
Speaker 2: incredibly generic based on the Temple and sorry that the
Speaker 2: Sermon on the mount there's a sermon in the Mounts
Speaker 2: in the Bible where Jesus goes up this hill and
Speaker 2: kind of just like gives like a long long speech
Speaker 2: about things that he needs to rectify about the current
Speaker 2: belief system. And it's almost like a word for word
Speaker 2: copy of that. So this is one of the things.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's nothing about it that's new information, which
Speaker 2: I find it's difficult about it as well as that,
Speaker 2: you know, these these things are written so long after
Speaker 2: the fact. But yeah, I mean there are millions and
Speaker 2: millions of people who adhere to this this version of Christianity.
Speaker 2: So you know, who's to say he's he's obviously got
Speaker 2: something right.
Speaker 1: We briefly touched on this in the beginning. After all
Speaker 1: your research and everything that you've looked at, do you
Speaker 1: think that Jesus was a real person?
Speaker 2: From all of my research, I have to agree with
Speaker 2: every single major historian in the world that Jesus was
Speaker 2: a figure who existed at the time that they believe
Speaker 2: existed in Jerusalem. That's everything. It's really difficult to find
Speaker 2: a reputable historian or religious scholar who disagrees with this fact.
Speaker 2: The issues kind of come with what he actually said,
Speaker 2: what he actually did. The details get hazy and we're
Speaker 2: not sure about that. But the existence of Jesus I
Speaker 2: struggle to find anyone to take seriously who denies that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but there, yeah, it's there's certain aspects of it. The
Speaker 2: story that they say is if you were to fabricate
Speaker 2: the story, you would never write a crucifixion, you would
Speaker 2: never kill the prophets, you know, who should shouldn't be
Speaker 2: able to be killed. That type of stuff is like,
Speaker 2: it does not seem a Bible. And a lot of
Speaker 2: people say, well, there's not enough documentation, but if you
Speaker 2: actually look at it, there's more documentation about Jesus than
Speaker 2: any other person of that time in Galilea. There was
Speaker 2: not a single other person that is as well documented
Speaker 2: with as old documents as there are for him. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that's his existence is undeniable.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll go over one more, the possibility that Jesus'
Speaker 1: father was a Roman soldier. Tell us a little about.
Speaker 2: This, Yeah, that one. That's also very fascinating and a
Speaker 2: little bit a little bit brutal. So this is what's
Speaker 2: interesting about this one is that there is a there's
Speaker 2: there's the Hebrew Bible, which is the very same as
Speaker 2: the Old Testament, is the most authoritative text in Judaism.
Speaker 2: The second most authoritative texts is a text called the Talmut,
Speaker 2: and the Talmut actually talks about this. It says that
Speaker 2: Jesus was the son of a guy called Pantira and Panterira.
Speaker 2: The story goes, and there's a couple of other documents
Speaker 2: from the second century that speak of this, this Roman
Speaker 2: soldier Pantira, who and it's some texts say it was consensual,
Speaker 2: some say it wasn't consential, but sept with Mary, who
Speaker 2: at the time was was very very young by any account,
Speaker 2: she was thirteen or or maybe a little bit old
Speaker 2: or even a little bit younger. And then yeah, then
Speaker 2: that's and then that was the father. And there's names,
Speaker 2: for example in the time which they refer to Jesus
Speaker 2: as Binnida, which means bastard, son of a menstruating woman.
Speaker 2: So it's pretty pretty vicious. And then but here's what's
Speaker 2: fascinating is that in eighteen fifty nine they found a
Speaker 2: tombstone of a guy Tiberis Julius abdes Pantira, who was
Speaker 2: was a soldier who was born in twenty two BC
Speaker 2: in Sidon died forty a d There and a lot
Speaker 2: of researchers are saying this might be the guy. That
Speaker 2: might actually be the guy who might have found his grave.
Speaker 2: But at the same time there was a ton of
Speaker 2: theories against it. First of all, that the names used
Speaker 2: for Jesus and the Tumult were quite common names at
Speaker 2: the time. Yes, you were, for example, so it's no
Speaker 2: actual fact that that's the guy. A lot of the
Speaker 2: timeline didn't quite add up. And also Pantera was quite
Speaker 2: a common names that I find a tumb with Pania
Speaker 2: and it doesn't really mean anything either. So again it's
Speaker 2: just like people believe what they want to believe.
Speaker 1: Really, I think, well, this is awesome research, man, We're
Speaker 1: gonna have to definitely do this again. Are there any
Speaker 1: particular theories that you lean in on more than others.
Speaker 2: The one that makes the most sense to the point
Speaker 2: of it, I think it's almost being undeniable, is that
Speaker 2: the unfortunate case with the New Testament was that it
Speaker 2: was selected under a Roman rule, so they were very
Speaker 2: much selecting the choices of texts that would allow them
Speaker 2: to continue the empire and build the empire, and it
Speaker 2: allowed them to take control of Christianity and and declare
Speaker 2: so many other texts like the Gnostics as hearsay. So
Speaker 2: you know, I do believe that the New Testament Scripture
Speaker 2: is incredibly, credibly powerful, and I think it's great choices
Speaker 2: and a lot of the choices were actually the oldest
Speaker 2: written text, so there is something to it. But I
Speaker 2: think to trust the Romans with this, who are famously
Speaker 2: known for their conquests. You know, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't they. I think there was some manipulation perhaps,
Speaker 2: but I don't think that that ruins the sacredness at all.
Speaker 1: This was great. Like I said before, I let you go.
Speaker 1: Let the audience know the best way that they can
Speaker 1: pick up your works.
Speaker 2: Great, Thank you, Chris. And so you can find my
Speaker 2: website on jard Woods Saved my Life dot com, but
Speaker 2: also on Amazon. So if you just type in Jesus
Speaker 2: was a shape Shifting Alien, it should come up. I mean,
Speaker 2: this book just came out, it's it's it's less than
Speaker 2: a month old, so this thing's fresh. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so please please do consider getting it. You can also
Speaker 2: follow me on instag at Lego Trips. So like EGO
Speaker 2: Trip with an L L E gt r IP, you'll
Speaker 2: see all my travels there. I go to all these
Speaker 2: kind of I just had a whole African trip. The
Speaker 2: show went to ten different African countries checking out traditional
Speaker 2: African and religious sacred sites. So it's there's a lot
Speaker 2: of cool content out there.
Speaker 1: I hope definitely man amazing. Like I said, we'll do
Speaker 1: this again until next time. Everyone, have an excellent evening.
Speaker 1: We will talk again tomorrow. We'll see y'all. Then watch
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