1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: If something leads to our own destruction and our own collapse, 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,200 it means there's an anti human aspect to it. And 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,240 it's definitely related to the end of the World War 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,240 two consensus. It's all about freeing ourselves from stricture, right, 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,679 and the individual like the idea that your self realization 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,719 is more important than you perpetuating the human race. I mean, 7 00:00:20,719 --> 00:00:22,920 think about it when I say it that way, like 8 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:25,920 your self realization. What I mean by self realization is 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,199 not like some high spiritual thing. It's not like you 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,760 dedicate your life to God as a monk or something. 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: What I mean by yourself realization. 12 00:00:32,679 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: Is like your career or your you know, you being 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,039 able to buy a boat, or to be able to 14 00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:42,520 retire at forty five, like something like that. Like that's 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,759 more important than the continuation of the human species, which 16 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:49,240 is which is crazy that anybody could ever think that, 17 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:52,280 and though it's been completely normal to think that now 18 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:53,200 since the sixties. 19 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: This is Jonathan pshol Welcome to the Symbolic World. 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,879 Speaker 3: Hello there, Well, this is Martin Shaw, and I'm afraid 21 00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:26,640 whatever you had planned for January scrap it. I am 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,319 returning to symbolic world gleefully with one of the great 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,719 stories of our time, the Epic of Passable, the story 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,719 of the Holy Grail itself. Over five nights, I will 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,319 be telling the tale. These will not be dry lectures 26 00:01:42,599 --> 00:01:50,079 or PowerPoint presentations. This will be wild, old philosophical storytelling 27 00:01:50,239 --> 00:01:54,959 in its deepest dimensions. It is life changing stuff, this story. 28 00:01:55,519 --> 00:01:58,000 I've written a book about it. I've been studying it 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,319 for twenty years. I've told it all over the world, 30 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:03,200 but I have not shared it with you. I've not 31 00:02:03,319 --> 00:02:06,239 shared it with Symbolic World. So what else would you 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,039 want to do in the great wintering time but to 33 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,319 sit at the feet of this wonderful story and let 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,120 me be your guide. I'll see you there. 35 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, I am here with Jean Philip Marson. I 36 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,280 think most of you that have watched my channel for 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,120 years know about John Philip. Jean Philip is actually the 38 00:02:25,159 --> 00:02:28,719 author of our very very first theory book at the 39 00:02:28,719 --> 00:02:32,080 Symbolic World. It's called You Got It. Also, it's called 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,240 post reductionist Christianity, a way out of the Meaning Crisis. 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,960 It has been called by people that I trust very much, 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,680 the mere Christianity for the twenty first century. 43 00:02:42,159 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: It's a very it's a lean book. 44 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: It's not very thick, it's very efficiently written, and it 45 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:51,080 gives you a line through the argumentation, you know, at 46 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,759 the end of reductionism and kind of how to think 47 00:02:53,759 --> 00:02:56,560 about this new mode of re enchantment. But today that's 48 00:02:56,599 --> 00:02:59,479 not what we're going to talk about. Jean philipp wrote 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,560 this article on demography which surprised everyone, and you know, 50 00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:07,000 all these people were writing me, people that I did 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,680 not expect were writing me messages, you know, saying it 52 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,560 was such a great article. And so we thought, you know, 53 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:14,719 because it's kind of in the air right now, like 54 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,639 the whole question of demography, it says something that it 55 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,560 seems like we could never talk about before, and all 56 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:22,599 of a sudden, everybody's talking about it. So we thought 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,479 we do a podcast podcast on it. And so Jeffrey, 58 00:03:25,719 --> 00:03:27,080 thanks for thanks for coming on. 59 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: Thanks Jonathan. Yeah, it's as you seen, Cindy Air. I 60 00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:34,159 feel like one aspect of this especially that we couldn't 61 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,479 talk about was the genetic aspects. I think with good reason, 62 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,400 like after World War Two, we just had to not 63 00:03:39,479 --> 00:03:42,240 think about this. But it's coming back, and the first 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,560 time I heard about this, I was very surprised. The 65 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,919 the I must give credit to Louis Perry. That's the 66 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:51,879 first person I heard say this. She mentioned she was 67 00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:59,680 on Chris Williamson's podcast, that progressivism as an ideology, also 68 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,599 in our in people, is self limiting because its adherence 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,919 don't reproduce enough. And the thing I hadn't realized before 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,960 was that the propensity, because the propensity for political and 71 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,560 religious inclination is partly genetic, like not that genetic, but 72 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,279 around forty percent of the variance is explained by genetics. 73 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,480 It means that because progressivism doesn't like lead to people 74 00:04:26,519 --> 00:04:31,240 having enough kids, they get out bred essentially by more 75 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,399 conservative people. And because the math of reproduction is exponential, 76 00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:38,959 what seems to be happening is okay, right now, there's 77 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:45,720 like a replacement happening of conservative people taking over culture 78 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:49,199 more and more, even the genetic layer. And it means that, Okay, 79 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,600 while the population is shrinking right now, as soon as 80 00:04:53,639 --> 00:04:59,959 a country industrializes, it seems its birth rates start to plumb. 81 00:05:00,399 --> 00:05:02,600 The only exception right now seems to be Israel that 82 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,920 has both. But like every other culture, it seems that 83 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:12,879 when the industrialized, the demographics collapse. But we might see 84 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:16,879 at some point like a rocket upwards, because if then 85 00:05:16,879 --> 00:05:18,600 the people who were left or the people who are 86 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,120 resistant to the demographic collapse that were currently undergoing, then 87 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:27,319 the population might just expose. So I was I, this 88 00:05:27,399 --> 00:05:29,959 may be very interesting because it seems like it's a 89 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,040 very strong pattern moving through Istraam right now, and I 90 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,959 had no immediate way to connect it to the Bible. 91 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,480 And like I always like, if there's a powerful explanaion 92 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,079 of something, I always try to see, okay, like what's 93 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,560 the analog in the Bible, Because in theory, I think 94 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,439 all the patterns should be there, like at the core, 95 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,360 every pattern should be somewhere around the incarnation. So I 96 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,759 thought about this with you privately in like the conversations 97 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,800 that we have offline, and the only thing we could 98 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:02,160 up with was the flood. And okay, so there's like 99 00:06:02,199 --> 00:06:07,319 this this parallel that Noah, with righteousness generation while there's 100 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,839 depravity around him, is the seed that is left to 101 00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:14,879 repopulate the world afterwards. And it's not just his ideas, 102 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,399 it's also like his say, his genius, We're gonna then 103 00:06:17,439 --> 00:06:21,680 repropulate the earth. And okay, so there's there's definitely this 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,079 that's happening. One thing then that we also noticed was 105 00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:28,879 I could could be fine surrounding ideas that also match 106 00:06:29,079 --> 00:06:33,120 the demographic collapse that's going on. And the thing that 107 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,120 we can see pretty pretty easily is why the flood happened. 108 00:06:38,759 --> 00:06:41,639 It's not detailed that much in Genesis itself. It says 109 00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:45,959 it talks about the Nephilim and de pravity going on 110 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:47,959 in the Earth, but it doesn't provide that many details. 111 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,759 It's essentially a reference to the Book of Knock and 112 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,199 then like if you read that, you can see, okay, 113 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:59,000 it's a mix of technological and sexual sense, like the 114 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:05,160 there demons with the Watchers who give forbidden knowledge to humanity, 115 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,680 knowledge that they're not ready for yet. And also the 116 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,360 Nephilim will sorry and the watchers will reproduce with human 117 00:07:12,439 --> 00:07:16,480 women to create weird hybrids the nephylum, and that that 118 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,519 sounds very fantastical for people who weren't like kind of 119 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,079 aware of symbolism. But if if we try to explain 120 00:07:23,199 --> 00:07:25,920 what's going on right now to a population that doesn't 121 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,399 know about like Facebook and porn up and like all 122 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,720 of our technological system, it's hard to see how else 123 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,439 we could put things like we have technology that allows 124 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:39,959 stuff like contraception and women doing pornography online and then 125 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,480 spreading that to like thousands or tens of thousands of 126 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,560 men at the same time and stealing their seeds at 127 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,959 the same time. Like you have a kind of weird 128 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,879 hybrid there, Like there is this technologically enabled pattern that 129 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,600 lends in women and creates these eyebrids and then it 130 00:07:56,639 --> 00:07:59,120 does stuff like steal the seeds of men. So I mean, 131 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,480 we're literally going to have sex robots like pretty soon. 132 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: So how would you explain sex robots to Let's take 133 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,079 a culture that has lost all of that technology. Let's say, 134 00:08:08,199 --> 00:08:10,800 I mean, it would be be very difficult to explain 135 00:08:10,839 --> 00:08:13,519 it except to talk about some kind of mechanized demon 136 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,839 or so you know, like it would be very difficult 137 00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:18,360 to explain it without using the type of language that 138 00:08:18,399 --> 00:08:21,439 you find like in the Book of Narchs running those traditions. 139 00:08:21,639 --> 00:08:24,879 Speaker 2: And so okay, So that's interesting, and you can make 140 00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:27,360 other parallels, but like basically the kinds of sense that 141 00:08:27,399 --> 00:08:28,920 you've seen in the Book of Enoch, you can you 142 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:31,199 can see parallels with what we're doing in culture right now. 143 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:33,200 And you've made videos relative to this too, Like if 144 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,120 people have watched your your videos on whether the witches 145 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,279 have won. Like, it's the same kind of kind of ideas, 146 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,799 these word eyebrids that we've created in part through technology. Okay, 147 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,039 so it seems like we're starting to have an interesting 148 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,679 pattern now that's matching between genesis and our current demographic collapse. Honestly, 149 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,120 if I only had these ideas, I don't think I 150 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,240 would have written an article though, because it's very one sided. 151 00:08:55,279 --> 00:09:02,080 It's like, okay, sexual revolution bad, and then the progressives 152 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,039 are gonna vanish and only like the conservative religious folks 153 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,720 are left and there we go we want So that 154 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,000 would have been too one sided as an article, But 155 00:09:11,879 --> 00:09:15,600 like digging more into biology because it's not just that, 156 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,559 but in general, biology seems to be the place where 157 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,440 there's lots of like interesting ideas to mind these days, 158 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,759 especially for symbolism. But digging more into this, I ended 159 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:31,679 up learning that it's not just religious people or conservative 160 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,360 people who reproduce more than progressives. Like more specifically, one 161 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:39,519 thing that's worrisome is it turns out that people who 162 00:09:39,639 --> 00:09:45,200 have authoritarian leanings and xenophobic leanings also like have pretty 163 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,279 eye birth rates, and in fact, like those tendencies correlate 164 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,039 more closely with iyebert rates than religiousness. So it means 165 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,240 that like for the I said, the people who want 166 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,639 to be like faithful faithful Noah, okay, like they're going 167 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,639 to make it through the blood. But then it's not 168 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,080 like it's paradise on the other side and everything is rosy, 169 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,360 like there will be something like Babel and the Copse 170 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:11,799 of Babel coming afterwards. Like yeah, I think that really, 171 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:14,159 I mean for people to kind of understand it's symbolically. 172 00:10:14,279 --> 00:10:18,279 It's such a powerful insight because when you look at 173 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,399 the story, it's so confusing, right because you use your 174 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,080 like okay, well here's this breakdown and then here's this 175 00:10:24,279 --> 00:10:27,480 fall leads to the flood, leads to chaos, leads to 176 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,200 Noah making it through the fall, and then immediately after 177 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,200 you again have this like this weird thing that goes on. 178 00:10:35,919 --> 00:10:37,559 And what you realize is that in. 179 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: Some ways you could understand with what's happening now, what 180 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,200 you're describing, you could understand why the fact of reducing 181 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,840 the seed, you know, and to in some ways eliminating 182 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,200 all of the elements that would lead to more looser 183 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:57,080 behavior you could say, or more experimentation and more exploration 184 00:10:57,279 --> 00:11:00,600 type of behavior. That leads ibridity and confus usually chaos, 185 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,720 and also to some generacy that you would end up 186 00:11:03,799 --> 00:11:06,840 with something like a tendency towards tyranny. 187 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, It's one way that I tend to put it 188 00:11:12,759 --> 00:11:20,600 is like the sexual revolution tries to detach sexuality from 189 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,799 its procreative purpose and just lets people try to enjoy 190 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:28,519 the pleasure without the purpose. And the people who accept 191 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,399 this detachment rather the people who can resist this detachment, 192 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,159 or the people who have some kind of attachment to 193 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,159 a tradition that binds them to life, like that will 194 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,879 attach like sexuality to its purposes. And people can be 195 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,240 attached for good and bad reasons to their tradition. So 196 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,279 like someone can be faithful like Noah, but someone could 197 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,200 also just be stubborn and be like just super conservative 198 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,080 and nothing too much, and like those people will make 199 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,960 it through the flood too, so will I think. I 200 00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:01,320 think it's good to to keep in mind. Okay, So 201 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,759 on the one side, like the like the run progressivism 202 00:12:05,919 --> 00:12:09,279 that seems to like have picked somewhere in the like 203 00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:14,200 early twenty twenties is gonna die down. But what we 204 00:12:14,799 --> 00:12:19,399 must start to pay attention to is like over correction 205 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,759 to conservatism to something that's too rigid like people. 206 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's probably why such a variety people reached 207 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,679 out to us to, you know, relating to the articles 208 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,720 that they could see that we weren't just saying, like 209 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,279 you said, hooray, you know this this whole progressive thing, 210 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:37,480 it's like self defeating. 211 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,759 Speaker 2: It's gonna it's gonna basically swallow itself. 212 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:42,879 Speaker 1: And so you know, it's for sure, there's no there's 213 00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:46,600 no winning on that side, but that that in that 214 00:12:46,759 --> 00:12:49,440 reduction would you end up what you end up having 215 00:12:49,519 --> 00:12:52,440 is a propensity towards tyranny. It's interesting because it makes 216 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,200 you realize how in some ways, you know, I think 217 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,279 Joan Peterson talked about this quite a bit, which is 218 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:01,000 the idea that in some way's religious and some and 219 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,000 social strictures what they do is that they actually limit 220 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:10,120 the excesses and so by in some ways enforcing basically 221 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,759 enforcing monogamy, you know, through social strictures. In some ways, 222 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,679 what we've done is we would have kept these more 223 00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:21,679 exploratory aspects of sexuality and and you know, would have 224 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:24,200 remained in the margin like they would have still been there. 225 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,240 The types of behaviors that have led to the sexual revolution. 226 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,879 We're still we're still there and they're still around. 227 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:30,759 Speaker 2: Uh. 228 00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: And and then the reasons for for people mating and 229 00:13:34,279 --> 00:13:37,000 the reason for people moving in a certain direction wouldn't 230 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000 be those characteristics, right, it would be all kinds of 231 00:13:39,039 --> 00:13:41,960 other characteristics. But now what happens with the sexual revolution 232 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,440 is that profligate type sexual revolution people end up matching 233 00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:49,200 with each other. People that are very progressive end up 234 00:13:49,399 --> 00:13:51,759 coupling and end up moving in that in that direction, 235 00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:54,759 and then conservative people kind of find each other and 236 00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:57,440 move and then come together. And so what you end 237 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:00,679 up having is exactly this surprise, which is, in some 238 00:14:00,799 --> 00:14:04,799 ways you're you're you might be weeding out those characteristics 239 00:14:04,919 --> 00:14:08,519 from the genetic pool over a few generations because the 240 00:14:08,799 --> 00:14:11,080 people that have that tendency they fight each other and 241 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:12,639 they don't they don't reproduce. 242 00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: It's wild. 243 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: It's like when you start taking that way, like it 244 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,279 makes you realize just how the world has a form, 245 00:14:19,399 --> 00:14:21,559 you know, and and if you if you just pull, 246 00:14:21,679 --> 00:14:24,159 like if you pull things in one direction, it just 247 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,919 naturally swings because just because of how it's how how 248 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:28,480 it works. 249 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's surprising that let's say it's becoming so clear 250 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,759 now and I eventually arge people talk about this like 251 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,320 just a year ago. And I also think there are 252 00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:45,159 probably historical precedents for this. I've heard some people make 253 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,679 the argument it's start to know for sure, like what 254 00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:49,600 happened how Rome converted, but that one of the big, 255 00:14:49,799 --> 00:14:53,039 big reasons might have been precisely this. Yeah, I'm almost 256 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,799 exactly the same pattern that we're having right now, because 257 00:14:55,919 --> 00:15:01,080 the ancient Romans were very degenerate sexually to a point 258 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,840 where the male Romans didn't want to have kids, like 259 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,960 they were such a it's a regress extreme artline bunch 260 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:14,519 that they didn't want to have to deal with children, 261 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,840 so they would have the kinds of sexual relations that 262 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,480 don't yield to children, or they would just expose the 263 00:15:21,679 --> 00:15:25,960 babies to let them die. So like, you're not going 264 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,919 to have a culture for very long if like all 265 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,480 of your elites do this, and the Christians did like 266 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:35,200 the opposite, Yeah, the opposite. So like just and you 267 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,600 can do the math, and it's possible that a very 268 00:15:37,679 --> 00:15:40,559 large amount of the conversion of Rome was due to 269 00:15:40,679 --> 00:15:42,919 exactly this pattern. And it's the same thing as the flood. Basically, 270 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,440 you add like this this previous world that like a 271 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:51,559 mix of technology and sexual degeneracy that dissolves and the 272 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,080 only seed that's left for the next world or the 273 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,679 people who accept Christianity and they then take over exponentially 274 00:15:58,799 --> 00:15:59,679 during a few centuries. 275 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I mean, and it's fascinating too, 276 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:06,559 Like you said, in some ways, it's weird how narrative 277 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,600 function and how you know, you know, I mean, I'm 278 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:12,679 sure you have known, you had noticed it very for 279 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:14,799 a very long time. Like these are things that that 280 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:17,360 I've been thinking about for long. There are a lot 281 00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:18,960 of things that I think about that I don't talk 282 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,559 about because I also want things to land. There's some 283 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:25,279 things that aren't worth saying because you know, there's no 284 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,000 there's no fertile ground for them. But it feels like 285 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,360 in the last one year, like really one year, things 286 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:35,240 have radically changed. We were Jean Philip and I were 287 00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:39,679 talking about this is very niche for us. But just 288 00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:44,519 last week a famous French Canadian kind of polemicist uh 289 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:48,399 Coute was on a like the most popular TV show 290 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,879 here in Quebec and talked about demography and talked about 291 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,879 you know, the the the idea of basically you know, 292 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,200 immigration and demography and how you know with French, with 293 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:02,360 French Canadians having children and people from the outside coming 294 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,200 and having children like you're going to vanish and they're 295 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,480 like left leaning respondents were just hushed to silence, which 296 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,359 would never have happened like just two years ago. They 297 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,559 were just completely they just they couldn't answer, and it 298 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,880 was wild to watch it. And we've seen sim similar 299 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,039 things in the US as well, these kind of discussions. 300 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,680 It's so I think that you know, in this time, 301 00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:28,359 it's it's definitely worth for us to take the time 302 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,480 to how can I say this, to to bring in 303 00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:35,160 some wisdom and to show that yes, this is true 304 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,759 and it's important to see it. And it's important to 305 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:40,880 see how degenerasy leads to lack of children and basically 306 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,720 the end to people, but that the reaction is positive, 307 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:47,279 but it also has has a dark side, you know, 308 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,359 in the coming behind it you could say, yeah, yeah, 309 00:17:51,599 --> 00:17:55,640 I think there's also this moment that we it's it's 310 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,400 easier now to talk about higher level patterns like demons. 311 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,799 Speaker 2: And I even think there's like again this historical parallel 312 00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:08,240 because I was listening to a doctor Michael Iser's book 313 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,119 on the Watchers, on reversing Arman, that's the title of 314 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:18,880 the book, and he mentions that people seeing the incarnation 315 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:26,400 as the reversal of what the watchers did. This used 316 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,240 to be a very common interpretation for the first three 317 00:18:28,319 --> 00:18:32,000 fourth centuries in Christianity, and then it pretty much vanished, 318 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,200 like people started to focus on the fall of the Watchers, 319 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,559 and people started to focus instead on the fall of 320 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,920 Adam and Eve. And I think it's related to what 321 00:18:40,039 --> 00:18:43,759 we said with Rome again, like there were these higher 322 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,519 level patterns of degeneracy in Rome that were fanquished by 323 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,839 the incarnation, and then people did need to talk about 324 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,599 them as much, and then it became more relevant to 325 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,599 talk about the sin of Adam and Eve and how 326 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,680 not to commit that again ourselves. One way maybe to 327 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,400 put it is let me know what you think. But 328 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:08,119 one way to put it is that because Jesus succeeded 329 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,920 in reversing what happened on Mount Herman with the Quatchers, 330 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:12,920 then you sort of put us back in the garden, 331 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,359 like he transformed Rome into the Eden or in the 332 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,720 division that you have of the evenly Jerusalem. Obviously it's 333 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,039 not perfect, but like, yeah, typologically that's what happens, some 334 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:24,200 iteration of it, and then when you were there, then 335 00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:26,480 the sin that you must focus on is not repeating 336 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:30,720 what Adam and Eve did. But now that Christianity has 337 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:34,079 collapsed so much, we're definitely not in the garden anymore. 338 00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:36,519 I feel like we're more in the Rome situation. And 339 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,400 now like people can talk about the higher level patterns 340 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,160 that are controlling us, and it's much more obvious now 341 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:43,480 than it would have been three hundred years ago. 342 00:19:43,559 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: Let's say, yeah, I mean that that makes sense. And 343 00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:50,440 what's interesting is also in some ways to see the blindness, 344 00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:55,680 you know, because anybody who was attentive would have noticed 345 00:19:55,839 --> 00:20:00,319 that these types of patterns would lead to the like 346 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,119 the breakdown of people, like you know, when the pride 347 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:08,559 culture was becoming ubiquitous, and you know, let's say at 348 00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:10,519 the Sexual Revolution, we should have seen it. But then 349 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,640 especially when pride culture was becoming kind of more popular, 350 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,079 people should have started to notice that. It's like, you know, 351 00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:20,279 that you need certain things for there to be more people. 352 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,480 And as we actually like watched and we would say, 353 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,359 like if you remember, I remember when I was in 354 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,359 high school, they would say it. They would say, oh, 355 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,920 the birth rate is such so, and it's below replacement rate. 356 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,119 But it was as if there were these weird blinders 357 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,559 that even though we keep saying that, we don't realize 358 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,279 what first of all led us there and then what 359 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,000 that means down you know, just two generations down down 360 00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:49,240 the line, and so, you know, and to realize that 361 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,359 if something leads to our own destruction and our own collapse, 362 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,400 it means there's an anti human aspect to it. 363 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 2: But it is wild to see how no. 364 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: One was able to notice that until like basically, I mean, 365 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,319 there's some people, you know, I know, there are some 366 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,200 voices that have been screaming it for a while. But 367 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,920 let's say, all of a sudden, it's become more accessible 368 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,079 to public discourse, you know, now for just like for 369 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:17,200 just a year. And it's definitely related to the end 370 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:21,680 of the World War two consensus, you know, because the 371 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:24,839 World War two consensus is in some ways all about, 372 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,240 especially in the West, it's all about the freeing ourselves 373 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,000 from stricture, right, and the individual versus the collective and 374 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,240 all of these types of things. And so this idea 375 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,559 of self realization, like the idea that your self realization 376 00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:45,079 is more important than you perpetuating. 377 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 2: The human race. 378 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it when I say it that way, 379 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:51,200 like your self realization. You know what I mean by 380 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,920 self realization. It's not like some high spiritual thing. It's 381 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,079 not like you dedicate your life to God as a 382 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,400 monk or something. But what I mean by your self 383 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,440 realization is like your career or you're you know, you 384 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,880 being able to buy a boat or to like be 385 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,880 able to retire a you know, forty five like something 386 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,920 like that. Like that's more important than the continuation of 387 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,440 the human species, which is which is crazy that anybody 388 00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:17,680 could ever think that, And though it's been completely normal 389 00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:18,519 to think that now. 390 00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:22,519 Speaker 2: Since the sixties. I think also that like it's people 391 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,079 have an art time imagining, like the negative aspects of 392 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,160 population collapse. There's some we can go over. But I 393 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,559 also think just to circle out to the World War 394 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,480 two consistence consensus is like not talking about aridity. I 395 00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:39,799 also think that's a huge aspect, Like it became totally 396 00:22:39,799 --> 00:22:43,319 off the table to talk about aridity with good reason. 397 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,920 But I think one of the reasons why the article 398 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,759 it's own for people is that it's easy to picture, 399 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,279 like if you just do that that quickly, because like 400 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,279 it's in many countries, like in the US and Canada. 401 00:22:55,319 --> 00:22:56,799 If you look at the people who go to church 402 00:22:57,079 --> 00:23:00,880 at least once a week, they have a birth rate 403 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,640 that's like above replacement or around replacement, and it's stable. 404 00:23:05,519 --> 00:23:07,880 If you look at the people who don't attend church, 405 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,160 it's it's quite low. Like it's similar to Japan. Let's see. 406 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,440 So if you just do the math on that, like 407 00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,400 you could see pretty quickly what's gonna what's gonna happen, 408 00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:20,680 and then people can picture this okay, like and it's 409 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,680 even more intense if you consider more conservative religious groups 410 00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:27,839 like the Amish or aesthetic Jews or even people around you, 411 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,759 you know, go to church and you have like four 412 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,920 six kids, Like if someone has let's say five kids 413 00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:37,440 and their kids have five kids, and someone like they're 414 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,559 gonna have yeah, yeah, they're gonna have like over one 415 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,839 hundred great grandchildren. But if you do them the same 416 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,839 math for people who like who are secular progressives and 417 00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:48,359 like a couple has one kid, like you have like 418 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:51,400 two parents for one child you have you need like 419 00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:56,759 four uh four grandparents to have one grandchild, you need 420 00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:59,480 exponentially like they're gonna be like if you should do 421 00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:02,240 the bath for the few generations. Yeah, it's really like 422 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,119 a quick collapse. And then you can imagine this like 423 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,359 if you're progressive and you imagine yourself like all of 424 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,920 a sudden, rather than being like fifty of you with 425 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,200 fifty conservatives, like all of a sudden, it's like one 426 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,599 of you with ninety nine conservatives. That's that's easy to imagine. 427 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,799 And like I think at It's home, like there's a 428 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,599 real problem there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it 429 00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:23,559 is definitely wild. 430 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: And in some ways I think that the the for 431 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,880 now since the six because that there was this World 432 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,839 War two narrative that was strong on us. Then in 433 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,319 some ways the progressive thought that if I mean, it 434 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,079 wasn't a conscious thing. But let's say it ended up 435 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,720 that the progressive taking over the education system, they thought 436 00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:47,000 that they could win because by taking over the education system, 437 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:52,480 then they could perpetuate themselves through initiation. Rather they perpetuate 438 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:56,759 themselves through transmission, right, I mean through through like giving 439 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,799 having children. So the way to perpetuate yourself is mimetic. 440 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:04,680 You're you're you're doing this like transfer of information. But 441 00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:07,599 then that that can last a little while, but it. Obviously, 442 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,079 it still will collapse because I mean, at some point 443 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,079 you just have less people and then the mass of 444 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,599 you you can maybe influence some of them to become progressive, 445 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,400 and it's gonna work for a while, but it's a 446 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:21,920 it's a losing game if you try to look at 447 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,079 it over over a few generations. 448 00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:27,559 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, yeah, I want to talk more about that. 449 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,599 And also it circles back to just demographic collapse and why, 450 00:25:31,759 --> 00:25:34,119 like it's hard to imagine what will happen. I used 451 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,599 to think that, Okay, there's just going to be sure 452 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,759 people and I don't know, it's going to be easier 453 00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:40,839 to buy oss. I guess I didn't used to see 454 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,440 it as sold negatively. But again, there's researching this. I 455 00:25:46,599 --> 00:25:48,559 found some people to make good arguments that it's it's 456 00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:53,599 like really a huge problem because our socio economic systems 457 00:25:53,799 --> 00:25:58,079 expect exponential growth, and we've based our systems on those 458 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,960 expectations for a long time now. So for instance, you 459 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,240 need something like three people working full time to pay 460 00:26:05,319 --> 00:26:09,519 for one person's pension, like one elder elderly person's pension, 461 00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:12,759 and like we're not at that racial. 462 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,279 Speaker 1: Racial going to bring that, it will bring about some 463 00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:22,640 kind of civil unrest, not not very far in the future. Uh, 464 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,359 you know, I was talking to some people in France. 465 00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:28,519 You know, it's already really heavy. I mean the weight 466 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,400 is very heavy on people there, and so I don't 467 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,240 I know that that will you know, and you know 468 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,599 that is definitely one of the reasons why here in 469 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,400 Canada they've been pushing made they've been pushing medical assisted 470 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,200 dying because they they can they know what's coming. 471 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: H and so yeah, it's all pretty terrified. Yeah, and 472 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,119 and even like in the private sector, so you can 473 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,640 look at because it's happening already in some cities, like 474 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,359 they're not able to let's say, pay the de pensions 475 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,920 of let's say the police force enough and then they 476 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,000 they can't hire like more policemen because then they can't 477 00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:05,319 even pay for the pensions of the older like retirees. 478 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,119 So like, so you have less people in your town, 479 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,319 that's all. You have less policemen in your town. So 480 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,519 like there's more crime, so people don't want to go there. 481 00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:15,880 So like the property values like they all go down, 482 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,839 so there's twer taxes, so it just parles. And like 483 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,319 in those situations, the people who are able to leave, 484 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,759 like at the skill of a city or a country, 485 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:26,559 Like if a country starts to have this imbalance where 486 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:28,920 there's too many old people and they're like trying to 487 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,599 extract everything they can from the younger people for their 488 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,599 pensions and for the public infrastructure, and some one like 489 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,480 the young people who are able to leave, they'll they'll 490 00:27:35,559 --> 00:27:38,160 just leave, So like you just perpetuate, like you just 491 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,559 accelerate the problem. And like many many countries seem to 492 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:43,799 have gotten into this place where I don't think they're 493 00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:47,240 really going to get out. And it's even chanelst robots. 494 00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:52,079 Speaker 1: That's the solution Elon has been pushing hard for, Like 495 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:54,480 that's he's based. I mean, I think he sees what 496 00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:58,519 we're saying, and he's saying the only way forward is 497 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,559 robots because there's no other there's. 498 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,559 Speaker 2: Like no other way. Maybe like Babel again, it's super skeptical, 499 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,920 like it I know, well that's right, but that's the 500 00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,240 right way to think about it, is that you know, 501 00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:14,279 the the some of the interesting things about the recent robots, 502 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,519 like the there's this new robot where it seems to function, 503 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,519 but it's actually someone in India with like a headset 504 00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:25,720 that is like controlling your robot in your house, my goodness. 505 00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,920 So so yeah, so I guess that could give us 506 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,559 like a little bit of a little like a little longer, 507 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,440 but I don't see it doesn't we need people. Yeah, 508 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,799 it's scaled. One thing that also, to go back to 509 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,599 one of your previous points that also parallels with what 510 00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:48,839 we said earlier, is like it's quite likely that as 511 00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:54,039 like governments start to collapse to due to lack of 512 00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:58,799 funding due to drinking populations, it's hard to imagine any 513 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,359 country that can get out of this without some kind 514 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,759 of dictatorship or like market call system, because like pensions 515 00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:11,200 are super popular, like people don't especially if you have 516 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,599 a population of more elderly people. Yeah, they're they're they're 517 00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:18,440 unlikely to vote against pensions. So like you need democracy, 518 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:22,480 like typically you won't fix the problem. So it's quite 519 00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:25,119 likely that at some point, like it seems like the 520 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,839 only way that the country can get out of this 521 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,960 kind of stuff is like someone just imposing, Okay, like 522 00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:32,559 we're gonna we're gonna get rid of all this like 523 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:37,480 public spending and we're gonna start something else. So again, 524 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:42,119 like babel kind of system that just unifies everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 525 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:42,880 and you can see. 526 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think, uh, there's there's Malay, 527 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,000 and then there's also Trump, who's who's kind of trying 528 00:29:50,079 --> 00:29:50,519 to do that. 529 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,039 Speaker 2: But he's not he's not really succeeding, you know. 530 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,119 Speaker 1: Those was a desire to kind of do that, kind 531 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,640 of make that kind of gesture, but doesn't seem like 532 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,680 it's it's it's exceeding because he wants to be popular 533 00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,160 more than he wants to cut spending, and so he 534 00:30:05,799 --> 00:30:12,039 he still has a massive, uh deficient deficient budget. So yeah, 535 00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:14,039 it doesn't I don't It's going to be interesting to 536 00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:16,440 see how how it all plays out. But I mean, 537 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,079 I think that though the one thing that we can 538 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,240 still say, even though there's danger in it, is that 539 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,200 what all of this does demonstrate is that those who 540 00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:32,559 get married have children who raise families like they really 541 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,519 are the only future. 542 00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:35,279 Speaker 2: There is no other future. 543 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: All other futures are they're stunted, you know, they're selfish, 544 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,480 and they they lead to kind of they lead to 545 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,119 to to degenerously and. 546 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: They fizzle out, you know. 547 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:49,119 Speaker 1: And so and even though we have to be attentive 548 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,960 to the problem of the problem of tyranny, which is 549 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,160 definitely real. Uh, there still is no other way forward. 550 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, like again, doing the math and 551 00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:04,759 thinking about where to see there at least makes me 552 00:31:05,079 --> 00:31:08,559 quite hopeful. Because let's say if you told most people that, okay, 553 00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:10,160 like if they're a good Christian, they're going to influence 554 00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:13,759 like one hundred people throughund their lifetime. I think most 555 00:31:13,759 --> 00:31:15,720 people would be pretty happy. Like if like one hundred 556 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,880 people let's say converted through like in part three your actions, 557 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,559 I think most people would be pretty happy. But like, 558 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,680 if you just have good families for a few generations, 559 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,440 you're gonna have that kind of impact, especially because like 560 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,680 the rest of the culture dissolves so much. Like so 561 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,519 I don't know. Again, you can do the math a little, 562 00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:35,279 like let's say you have three kids, your kids have 563 00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:37,880 three kids, and then they again have three kids. You're 564 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:43,920 can have something like twenty seven great grandchildren, yeah grand schildren, 565 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,400 no great grandchildren, and like if you contrast this with 566 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:50,559 like if if the rest of the culture, let's say 567 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:54,759 add like a fertility rate at replacement, they would have 568 00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:00,400 like on average, I think it would be eight for 569 00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:06,720 eight sixteen sixteen great grandchild And Okay, so you wouldn't 570 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,079 like necessarily think too much that you're having this propersonal impact. 571 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,279 But if the like popular the birth rate is around one, 572 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,119 like the rest of the population is really is really 573 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:18,279 gonna have like probably like less than one or just 574 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,160 one great grandchild. So like you have a massive like 575 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:26,920 impact on the world just by like being faithful like 576 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,200 in your generations, like like no one being righteous in 577 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,039 your generation. So and the thing is that's important, and 578 00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:34,160 this is going to be the most controversial thing we'll say. 579 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,759 But the thing that's important is to understand is that 580 00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:39,680 there are people that totally understand this, you know, and 581 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,559 that in some in some Islamic circles, this is a 582 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:44,680 clear strategy. 583 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: You know. It's like where we will just upbreed them 584 00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:50,440 and it just means that we'll we'll outbreed them and 585 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,599 will and then within a few generations then they'll be gone. Uh, 586 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,720 you know, they'll be gone, not necessarily eliminated, but they'll 587 00:32:57,759 --> 00:32:59,799 be gone in a sense that their influence will have 588 00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:05,079 diminished and will be irrelevant. And so you know, unless 589 00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:08,680 we're kind of aware of these realities, like we we 590 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,799 we can't be in the illusion. But I think the 591 00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:14,839 illusion is bursting, you know, because look there's a there's 592 00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:18,240 a Muslim mayor of New York. Now there's a Muslim 593 00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:22,119 mayor of London, you know, and so this is this 594 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:24,519 is something that that is going to happen more and more. 595 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,279 So it's good to be aware of it. It's also 596 00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:30,960 important to talk about technology there. I try to go 597 00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:34,319 through this snet balance between the article, but like there's 598 00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:38,480 this real challenge of how do you maintain the fruits 599 00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:41,039 of civilization, how do you maintain like the good aspects 600 00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:45,359 of technology without also collapsing fertility rates, Because that's really 601 00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:48,200 the challenge right now. You missioning Muslims makes me think 602 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,799 about this because right now Muslims have a huge issue 603 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,000 that if they're in like they come from poor countries, 604 00:33:54,039 --> 00:33:55,880 they have ey birth rates, they go to the West 605 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,599 and their birth rates collapses first faster than Christians. Yeah yeah, 606 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,240 so like the only group that seems to have managed 607 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,079 so far or Jews and like some kinds of conservative Christians, 608 00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:09,119 but they're not as easy to identify. But if you 609 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:12,000 look at Israel, for instance, as a frgital free rate 610 00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:16,719 of like three, which is very impressive for an industrialized country. 611 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,320 And even if you look at Jews in let's a 612 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,119 big cities in the West, they like they typically around 613 00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,599 replacement a little bit above, which isn't the case for like, 614 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:26,480 if you take just questions, that's say, typically they're not 615 00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:30,400 going to be there. But I think probably if you 616 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,800 could like select specific groups of Christians, probably you'd be 617 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,119 able to. 618 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 2: Get something like this. But still, like there's the overall 619 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,480 challenge of out do you maintain the good aspects of 620 00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:44,320 technology without the civilizational collapse? And I think there are 621 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,079 good things to do with technology, so I tried to 622 00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:47,599 do that in the article. I realized so far that 623 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,079 in this discussion we've been mainly negative about technology, but 624 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,800 that's something that's becoming clearer as well. Now we have 625 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,199 stories now of people during the last few years who've 626 00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:00,920 converted in large part through social media, YouTube, podcasts, and 627 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,880 so on. And sometimes it's really like helping reinvigorate churches 628 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,920 that have real troubles. I've heard a lot of this 629 00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,400 in France, for instance, where the culture is collapsing so 630 00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:16,679 much around young people that they get interested in alternatives. 631 00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:21,039 Like typically people will start looking online now and they'll 632 00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:25,920 find good content online by let's say Christian or especially 633 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,119 Catholic content creators and in France, and they'll consume that 634 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,079 kind of content for about a year and afterwards they're 635 00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:35,840 ready to go like their local church and often it's 636 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,280 not that great. So like if if that was their 637 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,960 only exposure to Christianity, they might just like stop right there. 638 00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:44,599 But because they've seen so much good stuff online, then 639 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,400 they're willing to like to make the. 640 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,079 Speaker 1: Effort because their parish church might be might be a 641 00:35:49,159 --> 00:35:50,199 complete catastrophe. 642 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I heard this. 643 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: I heard this proably, all these old trees that are 644 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,239 still in the old mentality, like they're still in charge. 645 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,119 So it's like it's it probably is exactly what you're saying. 646 00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:01,840 They come in and they're like like, oh, but they're 647 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,400 probably prepared for that online too, because people talk about it. 648 00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:06,079 Speaker 2: You know, people talk about how you know. 649 00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: The church is real, but that there's you know that 650 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,679 there's difficulties in the higherarchy and there's all this stuff. 651 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think you're right that. 652 00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:19,639 Speaker 1: Uh, when in some ways, when technology, because it so 653 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,079 has so much reach, when it can point back to 654 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,320 to buy, to physical connection, point back to to to 655 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,679 presence and to to relationships, and obviously to going to church, 656 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,679 to worshiping to having a family. Then you know, it's 657 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,079 it's doing what it what it can it's doing the 658 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:40,000 best thing that it can do, you know. And also 659 00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:42,800 like by connecting people, because one of the things this 660 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,920 is actually probably one of the biggest thing that technology 661 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,199 is doing, is that when things contract the way they're contracting. Now, 662 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,880 let's say, as you know, even though there is this 663 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:56,400 kind of renewal that we see happening with young people 664 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,800 in terms of Christianity, it's still shrinking, right, So it's 665 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,760 like Christianity is still shrinking for all the reason why 666 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:03,679 I was shrinking before. 667 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 2: And so one of the things the online. 668 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: World does is that it can create an alternative network 669 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,199 in order to create a sense of a body. You know. 670 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,800 So even though you go to your maybe your parish church, 671 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,320 your church in your town, and it's all white headed 672 00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:23,719 people except for three people, and it's like, if it 673 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,159 was just that, you would you would think this is 674 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,039 not worth it, like what am I doing? You know? 675 00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,679 But because you can then go online and be connected 676 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,039 to all these people that are going through similar things 677 00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:35,440 as you are and that are trying to push through, 678 00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,719 then it can create a kind of momentum. So it's 679 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,719 not just about information, but it's actually about connectivity in 680 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,559 the really in. 681 00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 2: The way that the internet. 682 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: What the internet does in the negative sense, it does 683 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,559 it too, right. So it's like, you know, there probably 684 00:37:49,679 --> 00:37:51,639 might have been people one hundred years ago that had 685 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,039 something akin to a furry fetish, like even though it 686 00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:57,159 didn't exist because it was so weird and so rare. 687 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,960 But because now they're able to go on Reddit or 688 00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:04,039 Tumblr whatever wherever these people go and create networks, then 689 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,960 it creates it creates a body, uh for something that 690 00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:11,360 before it didn't really have a clear body, you know, 691 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,360 and so so so in some in some ways, I 692 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,519 think traditional thinking and you know kind of traditional valids 693 00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:20,400 can also ride that you know, can also use that 694 00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:24,320 same process, but then to create bodies that point back. 695 00:38:24,199 --> 00:38:27,639 Speaker 2: To the world and point back to reality. Yeah, so 696 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,920 I think that's like one concrete example in which we 697 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,880 can build the kind of arc with technology to something good. 698 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,960 And I think we need we need like no one 699 00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:39,440 needed to build the arc or like Iatman at the 700 00:38:39,519 --> 00:38:41,719 garments of skin, Like we we live in a world 701 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,840 where like this technology is ear and I don't think 702 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,519 we can just ignore it. Like one way to have 703 00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:47,599 ice for tailty rates is to be poor, like poor 704 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,960 nations have iron fertility rates, but like the in the 705 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,800 world where other nations and justust realize like you can't 706 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,519 you can stay that like you're not gonna thrive that way. 707 00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:01,840 So you need to use technology in good ways to 708 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,760 to to prepretiate yourself like in the future. So I 709 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,800 think it's this balance that will need to maintain in 710 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,880 the future. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 711 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,679 Speaker 1: And I think that the point you make about the 712 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,360 arc and to always remember that to remember, especially as 713 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:20,119 technology comes uh pervasive and kind of seems like it's 714 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,480 take taking over everything, to remember that God's salvation for 715 00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,440 the fallen world before the flood was a technological one. 716 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,679 Speaker 2: So was in only that, it was also. 717 00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:32,199 Speaker 1: To find the just person right and to gather his 718 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,159 seed and to kind of gather creation in that in 719 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,880 that moment, but it was done in some part through. 720 00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 2: Through the means of technology. I think it's important to remember. Yeah, 721 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,320 all right, well. 722 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,079 Speaker 1: Who says we don't talk about countray things here on 723 00:39:48,199 --> 00:39:52,719 SLA uh and so so yeah, so check out the 724 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,039 post Reduction this book. It's it's really great and like 725 00:39:56,119 --> 00:39:58,920 I said, it's it's actually it's a quick read. It's 726 00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:01,760 very it's very very efficient, like if you need to 727 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,079 kind of bring together the arguments that you've heard all 728 00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:08,480 through the Symbolic World, but also you know a lot 729 00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:11,599 of modern thinkers like David Benleyhart, you know, and John 730 00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:14,239 Raveaki and all these people that are thinking about what's 731 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:14,559 going on. 732 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 2: It's definitely the book to check out. And so Jean, 733 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,320 thanks for thanks for your time. Thanks Jonathan, and. 734 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,679 Speaker 1: Don't forget check out the article as well. We'll put 735 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,320 the link in the description. What was the name of 736 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,239 the article if you remember, it's Is this the flood? 737 00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:28,440 Is Babel next? 738 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,639 Speaker 2: All right? All right, thanks everyone. 739 00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:34,519 Speaker 1: If you enjoy these videos and podcasts, please go to 740 00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:37,239 the Symbolic World dot com website and see how you 741 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,440 can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers 742 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,320 with perks. There are apparel in books to purchase. So 743 00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:45,519 go to the Symbolic World dot com and thank you 744 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:46,639 for your support.