Speaker 1: Welcome to the WWE Podcast, your place for the most
Speaker 1: passionate wrestling analysis on the web.
Speaker 2: Just turn Roman Heel. What is WWE Waiting for? Another
Speaker 2: wrestling podcast put you to sleep?
Speaker 1: You can count on the WWE Podcast to get you
Speaker 1: engaged and asking for more.
Speaker 2: I've been watching wrestling for over twenty years and that
Speaker 2: was one of the best matches I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: If you're easily offended, this may not be the show
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Whatever happened to the men being able to physically retaliate
Speaker 2: against the women in WWE, This is a fantasy environment.
Speaker 1: This is unlike any other wrestling analysis. So without any
Speaker 1: further delay, let's get the show started right now.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the WWE Podcast. On this Thursday, June twentieth,
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, the last day of spring, so summer actually
Speaker 2: starts tomorrow, longest day of the year for daylight anyway,
Speaker 2: and after that, sadly, things start to turn the other
Speaker 2: way until we get to the winter beginning of winter
Speaker 2: in December. So longest day of the year tomorrow, Enjoy it.
Speaker 2: It'll be light at least where I am until probably
Speaker 2: like you can see the sunlight up until nine p
Speaker 2: fifteen at night. It's just nuts. So enjoy that and
Speaker 2: enjoy this podcast as well, because we have a great
Speaker 2: one for you might be And I keep saying this,
Speaker 2: but I keep topping myself. The longest show in the
Speaker 2: history of the WWE podcast, my co host Anthony DeMarco
Speaker 2: and I we chatted for over two hours about the
Speaker 2: status of WWE, the current product, Ron spack Down dove
Speaker 2: a little bit into the past because a lot of
Speaker 2: the past is now relevant for what's going on now.
Speaker 2: So some cool tidbits there, and of course we give
Speaker 2: our predictions for the Stomping Grounds pay per view this Sunday,
Speaker 2: so we get you all ready for that with some
Speaker 2: interesting selections and what is a pay per view that
Speaker 2: on paye looks very predictable, and so we've got a
Speaker 2: couple of swerve picks for you there and I think
Speaker 2: you'll enjoy it. But again, guys, if, by the way,
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Speaker 2: to like a zillion shows that I've done. Okay, not
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Speaker 2: enjoy them. It's always a good read, not coming from me,
Speaker 2: not just my brain, other people's brains, which is a
Speaker 2: good thing. And so the site is growing in content,
Speaker 2: it's growing in general. This podcast is growing, as you
Speaker 2: guys know, and that's all thanks to you. So this
Speaker 2: will be the final show of the week, but I'll
Speaker 2: be starting a new week and just a few days
Speaker 2: on Sunday, when I do my wrestling nostalgia and or
Speaker 2: what if segment. I haven't decided yet, so what I've done,
Speaker 2: what I've decided to do, just so you guys know,
Speaker 2: my schedule is. On Sunday, I'll be doing my typical
Speaker 2: what if and or wrestling nostalgia segment, and then I
Speaker 2: will be taking Monday off from doing audio, and then
Speaker 2: Tuesday I'll be doing a raw show. Wednesday I'll be
Speaker 2: reviewing SmackDown Live. Thursday will be my typical co hosting spot,
Speaker 2: and then I'll take Friday and Saturday off, so you
Speaker 2: guys will get me four days a week. This week
Speaker 2: I did experiment with five. I think four is more
Speaker 2: realistic for me just in terms of time, and I
Speaker 2: have other projects going on. So I think that Sunday,
Speaker 2: Monday or Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Speaker 2: Thursday will be your audio audio pleasure of wrestling, and
Speaker 2: so I'll be off three days a week, working four
Speaker 2: days a week for you. So just so you guys know,
Speaker 2: and thank you guys for listening. Thank you guys for
Speaker 2: making this a great show, a big show, and much
Speaker 2: more to come. As you guys know, this show is
Speaker 2: just getting started, so no further Ado, Let's just get
Speaker 2: you to the conversation with myself and Anthony and everybody.
Speaker 2: Enjoy your weekend. I'll be back Sunday. Take care. Okay,
Speaker 2: welcome to the WWE podcast, and this week I have
Speaker 2: my third co host in the rotating cast of three,
Speaker 2: Anthony DeMarco, who is officially on the show as a
Speaker 2: co host for the first time, and it's a blast
Speaker 2: to have him here. So Anthony, welcome to the show,
Speaker 2: and congrats on being the official co host of the
Speaker 2: ww podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Matt.
Speaker 4: It's a real honor to get this position. I'd just
Speaker 4: like to thank everyone who voiced their opinion, who supported
Speaker 4: me and wanted to be wanted me to be a
Speaker 4: permanent co host.
Speaker 3: So thank you all, and especially thank you Matt.
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's always great when I have an
Speaker 2: opinion that agrees with the masses. And you were one
Speaker 2: of the three that people were like, oh, you got
Speaker 2: to bring them back on, you got to make them
Speaker 2: make him a co host. You guys had good chemistry,
Speaker 2: and so I was like, yes, all right, so I
Speaker 2: don't have to pick somebody that I was didn't feel
Speaker 2: was the best choice, and I got my wish. So
Speaker 2: it's a it's a blast to have you on and
Speaker 2: we certainly don't have any shortage of things to talk
Speaker 2: about this week. There are a lot of things going
Speaker 2: on in WWE. The some of them good, some of
Speaker 2: them not. With the lowest SmackDown rating in the history
Speaker 2: of w WE, that's a non holiday. That is a
Speaker 2: telling tale sign for WE, and you can't really blame
Speaker 2: it on any kind of sporting event. You can't blame
Speaker 2: it on Memorial Day, fourth of July, and so we'll
Speaker 2: get to smack Down live. But so ay, they let
Speaker 2: me just ask you this, out of this entire week
Speaker 2: in WWE, what are some of the things that really
Speaker 2: stood out and that you're like, we need to talk
Speaker 2: about this.
Speaker 4: Well, I think the biggest thing, and I'll start with
Speaker 4: a positive, is I actually like Seth Rollins's kind of
Speaker 4: changing character with the chair shot the business that he's
Speaker 4: on right now. It kind of adds a new element
Speaker 4: to his character. I feel like he was getting a
Speaker 4: bit stale there for a bit and it was just
Speaker 4: kind of getting repetitive. But it kind of gives him
Speaker 4: almost like a Steve Austin anti hero type of thing
Speaker 4: that I'm really liking, and I guess and then on a.
Speaker 3: Bit on the negative side of it, it's.
Speaker 4: Just kind of like the Shane McMahon in your face
Speaker 4: over over and over and over and over and over
Speaker 4: and over again of raw and SmackDown.
Speaker 3: It's just the same thing.
Speaker 4: It's like it's just getting repetitive a bit, and I'm
Speaker 4: just kind of getting tired of it. So there's my
Speaker 4: big positive and there's my big negatives for this week
Speaker 4: so far, and.
Speaker 2: So I want to touch on that. I mean, I
Speaker 2: I'm with you about the Shane McMahon deal. I was
Speaker 2: a proponent and still I am a proponent of Shane
Speaker 2: McMahon staying heel. I think he's doing a very good
Speaker 2: job as a heel. But the problem is, Shane McMahon
Speaker 2: is not the future, right. Shane mcman' is a forty
Speaker 2: nine year old son of the promoter who is the
Speaker 2: head of this stable that has no name that I
Speaker 2: know of that is that should be. And it's starting
Speaker 2: to transition to focusing on the wrestlers Drew McIntyre and
Speaker 2: Elias who's just kind of there. So, yeah, I'm with
Speaker 2: you about the Shane deal. I understand what they're going
Speaker 2: for with the heat, but at some point this is
Speaker 2: going to need to come to an end. There needs
Speaker 2: to have a faction that stands up to them and
Speaker 2: just dismantles them and they all go their separate ways.
Speaker 2: But I'm with you on that. The chair the chair
Speaker 2: shots with Seth Rollins, I'm all for too. I mean,
Speaker 2: that was a nice change, a nice big difference from
Speaker 2: what we have seen from Seth in the past of
Speaker 2: just kind of like talking and there was no real aggression.
Speaker 2: There was no sense of urgency from Seth. It felt
Speaker 2: like and he has seemingly snapped and become the chairman
Speaker 2: of WWE and gone around and just pummeled anybody that
Speaker 2: has thought about being a special guest referee for Baron Corbyn.
Speaker 2: So I really liked that aggressiveness from Seth to It
Speaker 2: needed to be done. As you said, Seth has been
Speaker 2: feeling a bit stale and adding this to his character
Speaker 2: is just another layer that we need to see from Seth.
Speaker 2: We needed that and I was glad to see it
Speaker 2: Monday night and obviously bleeding into Tuesday night.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and It brings almost like a realistic sense to
Speaker 4: the character. Because anyone who's constantly being shadowed by a monster,
Speaker 4: by a guy like brock lesnar and toyed with the
Speaker 4: potential cash, and then you have Baron Corbin just always
Speaker 4: kind of like busting his balls in the background and
Speaker 4: like taking cheap shots at him. So it makes sense
Speaker 4: that eventually any normal person would come to this conclusion
Speaker 4: where you would snap eventually. So I like that it
Speaker 4: shows it's more like of a realistic feel from seth
Speaker 4: Rawlins as opposed to just the repetitiveness that were both
Speaker 4: alluded to. But then to just go back to the
Speaker 4: shame thing a bit. I really do like what Chaine's doing.
Speaker 4: I've always been a big Shane McMahon fan, and I
Speaker 4: like the whole faction thing. I think factions are kind
Speaker 4: of a lost art in the WWE these days, or
Speaker 4: if they are, if they do get assembled, they're quickly
Speaker 4: died out, like that awful faction the League of Nations
Speaker 4: way back in twenty fifteen or what was it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I like it.
Speaker 4: I like that now it's transitioning onto Drew McEntire. But
Speaker 4: I think just as a.
Speaker 3: Result of this stupid wildcard rule.
Speaker 4: It's kind of getting diluted a bit that we're seeing
Speaker 4: it on both shows for more than once per show.
Speaker 4: So I just wish they would tone it down of
Speaker 4: it because I loved the idea, I love the people
Speaker 4: in it, I love McIntyre, I love the revival.
Speaker 3: But I just think it's getting a bit too diluted.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned wildcard. What are your thoughts on the
Speaker 2: wild card I'm hearing a lot of conflicting opinions, very
Speaker 2: strong opinions one way and the other. What are your
Speaker 2: thoughts on this wildcard rule?
Speaker 4: If it was used to the pure definition of it,
Speaker 4: just like three random wrestlers per week could go on,
Speaker 4: maybe I could get behind it. Like I told you
Speaker 4: the first time I was on the show, before I
Speaker 4: was a permanent co host, I grew up in the
Speaker 4: ruthless aggression era, and that's when the brand split was
Speaker 4: in full force, and that was like, no one crossed
Speaker 4: over brands. The only only time you saw crossovers was
Speaker 4: at the Royal Rumble. Now I understand it's not like
Speaker 4: that anymore, but and I know they're more loosely with
Speaker 4: the rules, So like I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying to be open to the idea.
Speaker 4: You know, times change, but it's not even random three
Speaker 4: on each shows. It's now four or five or six,
Speaker 4: and it's always the same four or five or six.
Speaker 4: They're just using the wild card to use the same
Speaker 4: wrestlers weekend week out on both shows.
Speaker 3: It's not changing.
Speaker 4: It's always samy Ze going to SmackDown, Alexa Bliss going
Speaker 4: to SmackDown, Drew going to smack down. It's always Roman
Speaker 4: coming to Raw, Kevin Owen's coming to Raw, Bailey coming
Speaker 4: to Raw. It's not being creative, and I thought the
Speaker 4: whole point was to give more creativity to the writing
Speaker 4: and make it more unpredictable, but it's actually become the
Speaker 4: exact opposite. It's predictable, same thing, same thing, every week,
Speaker 4: and I absolutely hate it, Honestly, I can't stand it.
Speaker 4: And we're not seeing other wrestlers being used, like we've
Speaker 4: barely seen Cedric Alexander since he came up, and he
Speaker 4: was supposed to be like the big graduation from cruiser
Speaker 4: Weight to Raw. So yeah, I just think it's done more.
Speaker 3: Harm than good.
Speaker 2: And it's also I think an admission, although would never
Speaker 2: be admitted, but it's kind of in a subset admission
Speaker 2: by WWE that they're of their failure to create big
Speaker 2: stars that can hold down both brands, so they have
Speaker 2: to take their biggest stars and put them on both shows.
Speaker 2: And as you just said, you already know who's going
Speaker 2: to be there. So this quote, this idea that the
Speaker 2: wild card is supposed to add this this unpredictability factor
Speaker 2: that anything could happen at any time, it's done the opposite,
Speaker 2: because you know which stars are going to show up,
Speaker 2: and they've taken their top stars and just diluted the
Speaker 2: entire product with those stars, and now you've overexposed them
Speaker 2: on both shows twice a week. So it's not you're
Speaker 2: doubling down on the problem by doing this, which is
Speaker 2: it's really unbelievable when you think about it, that this
Speaker 2: rule was supposed to be doing the opposite of what
Speaker 2: it's actually doing. And if it was, as you said,
Speaker 2: implemented to a t in the exact way that it
Speaker 2: was meant to. Yes, this could be a very cool
Speaker 2: idea if NXT stars could do it. Have we seen
Speaker 2: an NXT star come up and utilize this wildcard rule?
Speaker 2: I mean anybody? And furthermore, and I've said this before,
Speaker 2: and I won't get too much more into it, but
Speaker 2: how is this done. Nobody has explained to the fans
Speaker 2: how it's decided who shows up. They just I don't
Speaker 2: understand as it first come for surf, first to the building.
Speaker 2: Nobody's explained this, so that furthermore is diluding this whole
Speaker 2: wild card thing, which is just it's nonsensical. But as
Speaker 2: you said, I would love them to go back to
Speaker 2: totally sprint lands sprit split brands, I'll get it right.
Speaker 2: And they just have one world living in it of itself,
Speaker 2: and an island another island, and they never ever ever
Speaker 2: cross paths unless there's an absolute, big reason to do it.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's WrestleMania. As you said, I remember when Goldberg
Speaker 2: and brock Lesner were on separate brands, and I mean
Speaker 2: back in two thousand and four when they had their
Speaker 2: terrible match of WrestleMania twenty. But I remember how crazy
Speaker 2: it was to see, oh my god, Goldberg's on SmackDown.
Speaker 2: He's not supposed to be here, and it just felt
Speaker 2: like it felt much more exciting when it genuinely felt
Speaker 2: as if somebody was invading the other opposing brands show.
Speaker 2: So we don't have that. Nothing surprising. You know who's
Speaker 2: gonna be there. And this whole thing is not even
Speaker 2: a wild card, it's just a it's a quasi brand split,
Speaker 2: but really there's no brand split anymore.
Speaker 3: So no, yeah, and that's exactly it.
Speaker 4: And it just feels like they knew the ratings were down,
Speaker 4: so they wanted a reason to get top superstars from both.
Speaker 3: Brands and just use them on Raw and smack them.
Speaker 4: Like look look at this past week on Raw Daniel
Speaker 4: Bryan Verus Eth Rollins of that kind of match, zero
Speaker 4: build to it, no logic behind it, Like it makes
Speaker 4: no sense and you're just wasting it. And was it
Speaker 4: a good entering, Matt, of course it was. It's two
Speaker 4: of the best wrestlers there. But you're you're just wasting
Speaker 4: this to get cheap ratings, in my opinion, because you
Speaker 4: advertise this big time match and I just I can't.
Speaker 3: I think you're you're a big proponent of this.
Speaker 4: I don't care if the match is super good, if
Speaker 4: the story is garbage or in this case, nonexistent, I'm
Speaker 4: not gonna care about it.
Speaker 3: I won't.
Speaker 4: I've never been a big guy of like, Okay, well
Speaker 4: we'll throw two really technical guys together out of nowhere
Speaker 4: and you'll draw attention. No, I'll get behind a really
Speaker 4: good story, even if I know that the in ring
Speaker 4: product won't be its best, Like Shane mcmah versus Vince
Speaker 4: McMahon at Wrestling in seventeen that like we knew that
Speaker 4: the entering product wasn't gonna be too good, But I
Speaker 4: to this day go back and watch that match because
Speaker 4: I remember the build to it and the build of
Speaker 4: Shane coming to his mother's aid and all this in
Speaker 4: the street fight and Dad versus Son and this and that,
Speaker 4: and now with this wildcard rule, like except for like
Speaker 4: the same stories of Roman against Shane or Alexa Bliss
Speaker 4: against Bailey, and then somehow, some way, Kevin Owens and
Speaker 4: Sammy Zane always weasel their way in as just guys
Speaker 4: who lose. Because that's why I just feel like they
Speaker 4: are now guys to put over the good guys. I
Speaker 4: don't know, it's just really bothersome to me that they're
Speaker 4: just using this to be creative, but it's the opposite,
Speaker 4: and it's just the same thing weak in week out,
Speaker 4: and just the stories have just gotten so diluted and
Speaker 4: just poorly written.
Speaker 2: And and we're not gonna beat it at horser but
Speaker 2: I yeah, I mean we've said everything there is to
Speaker 2: say in terms of the wild card execution, and I
Speaker 2: don't think we're being unfair. This is just the truth.
Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that you can bring a team
Speaker 2: over and only consider them as one out of the
Speaker 2: four wild cards is preposterous, because why doesn't everybody just
Speaker 2: say they're a team, and oh, we're all just considered one.
Speaker 2: So I mean, like, it's just the ridiculousness of this
Speaker 2: and the fact that they don't ever take the time
Speaker 2: to just give us basic details of how this works
Speaker 2: is maddening and insults fans intelligence. And it's lazy, sloppy
Speaker 2: booking to allow themselves leeway to book however they want
Speaker 2: without regulation, to fit whatever story they want to fit
Speaker 2: at the time, even if there's no parameters for it.
Speaker 2: It's it's the worst possible storytelling that you could make
Speaker 2: if you're if you're an author of any book. It's
Speaker 2: just terrible. So moving on, though I want to, I'm
Speaker 2: going to move away from this because I could, I
Speaker 2: could run about the wildcard for a while. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna do that. So what about Dolf Ziggler. Do you
Speaker 2: are you are you thinking like, hey, does Dolf Ziggler
Speaker 2: even belong in the main event picture? Do you think
Speaker 2: that Dolf Ziggler is deserving? Do you like that he
Speaker 2: is saying it should have been me? What's your take
Speaker 2: on Ziggler and Kofi Kingston.
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, I've always like Dolf Ziggler.
Speaker 4: I I because I he's kind of a diverse character.
Speaker 4: You can kind of give him anything and he'll spin
Speaker 4: it into gold if you will. But I, as we
Speaker 4: talked about when I came on the show about a
Speaker 4: month ago, I really liked at the beginning, I feel
Speaker 4: like it this should have been me saying the promos.
Speaker 3: It's starting to.
Speaker 4: Get a little bit repetitive, but I still like it.
Speaker 4: But even though he's kind of referring back to like
Speaker 4: his screaming thing now the one thing about Golf, And
Speaker 4: I'm happy that he's getting a second match because I
Speaker 4: thought it was just gonna be a one and done
Speaker 4: in a Super Showdown, But I still feel like he's
Speaker 4: just a placeholder challenger, and it just it gets that
Speaker 4: feeling because he doesn't really like even though he's the
Speaker 4: number one contender for the w Championship, He's still kind
Speaker 4: of just on the side of it. Like he comes
Speaker 4: out at the first segment of the show, he wrestles
Speaker 4: a match against Zavier Woods and he's done, and then
Speaker 4: the guy who he's challenging for the belt on Sunday
Speaker 4: is often a completely irrelevant tag team match.
Speaker 3: So even though I.
Speaker 4: Like for the most part what he's doing, and I
Speaker 4: think that he should have been there, no pun intended,
Speaker 4: even though I think that he belongs to be there,
Speaker 4: it just it gives off this feel and this is
Speaker 4: more on the writing than him, that I'm not taking
Speaker 4: him seriously as a potential winner and they're just kind
Speaker 4: of finding a placeholder challenger until they can find something
Speaker 4: more concrete heading into SummerSlam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does. He feels like a placeholder. And I
Speaker 2: said this last night on the show that I did
Speaker 2: with for the SmackDown review, is that Dolf Ziggler. He
Speaker 2: the thing is his character has been educated to fans
Speaker 2: for how many years now that he can wrestle his
Speaker 2: ass off, he can sell his ass off, he can
Speaker 2: cut a good promo'. He's not a bad character. He's
Speaker 2: not bad on the mic, he's decent on the mic.
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from his screaming, and even when he's screaming,
Speaker 2: you're still paying attention. There are certainly worse guys in
Speaker 2: the business on the promo than Dolf Zigler. He's I
Speaker 2: would say good to above average. And so the problem
Speaker 2: though is, no matter what how good his promo is,
Speaker 2: no matter how good he is in the ring, you
Speaker 2: just know, because of years and years and years of
Speaker 2: booking that Dolph Zigler is going to lose the big
Speaker 2: match because we have been educated to believe that, and
Speaker 2: I have no reason to believe otherwise until proven wrong.
Speaker 2: Dolf Ziggler's character has been a victim of creative booking
Speaker 2: and just just booking that has destroyed the credibility of
Speaker 2: his character. Anytime he tells us he's going to win,
Speaker 2: he has to win, I will beat you, it's like,
Speaker 2: but you're not going to, Like Dolph, let's be real,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna win. We all know you're not going
Speaker 2: to win. And that's the problem with his character. Beyond
Speaker 2: the fact that he is one of the best in
Speaker 2: the ring and has been for quite some time and
Speaker 2: is a he can make his opponent look like a
Speaker 2: million bucks. That's a huge asset. But as you just said,
Speaker 2: Kofi Kingston, I think is on a roll and he
Speaker 2: is a people's champion, no pun intended, and he anytime
Speaker 2: that and I've said this before too, anytime Kovie Kingston
Speaker 2: or anytime a champion wins the championship at WrestleMania, it's
Speaker 2: a championship win that needs to stick for six months.
Speaker 2: And I really believe that you can't just have a
Speaker 2: champion win it WrestleMania and then have them lose the
Speaker 2: next month or two months after, because then it really
Speaker 2: means nothing. WRESTLEMANI is the reset button Wrestlemani's the end
Speaker 2: all be all. And on top of it, it doesn't
Speaker 2: hurt that Kobe Kingston's a black man. I mean, let's
Speaker 2: be honest, he is the perfect candidate right now for
Speaker 2: WWE's progressive ideology to play Kate Hey, we have an
Speaker 2: African American champion. I mean, I don't think he's being
Speaker 2: used for that, but it certainly doesn't hurt that he
Speaker 2: is the face of WWE right now. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of things going against Dolf Zigler, and those are just
Speaker 2: a couple of them, but overall, look, I am a
Speaker 2: fan of Dolf Ziggler to a point. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna go there and scream my face off like
Speaker 2: a thirteen year old girl for him. But I think
Speaker 2: that he has a lot of good qualities and it's
Speaker 2: just unfortunate that they didn't strike while the iron was hot.
Speaker 2: And when I think the iron was the most hot
Speaker 2: for him was I think it was the night after
Speaker 2: WrestleMania at twenty seven, don't quote me on maybe twenty
Speaker 2: seven to twenty eight, and he cashed in and won
Speaker 2: the World Heavyweight Championship against Alberto del Rio and he
Speaker 2: was placeholder champion then and he feels like a placeholder
Speaker 2: contender now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because if if memory certainly correctly, they ended up
Speaker 4: at the end of that feud, it culminated in a
Speaker 4: double term turn with him in Alberto do Rio, if
Speaker 4: I'm not mistaken, where like in one match they swapped heel.
Speaker 3: And face positions, and honestly, like that whole feud, like
Speaker 3: I just hated Alberta do Rio.
Speaker 4: I thought he was the most boring thing I'd ever seen,
Speaker 4: and they were just kind of recreate Eddie Guerrero to
Speaker 4: be honest. But yeah, to get back on Dolf Zigler, Like,
Speaker 4: it's just kind of been the same thing.
Speaker 3: Over and over and over again with him.
Speaker 4: I did think they were kind of rejuvenating it with
Speaker 4: his initial phase run when they first did the brand
Speaker 4: split in twenty sixteen or the second brand splint, I
Speaker 4: must say, because he was the initial number one contender
Speaker 4: to Dean Ambrose at the time on SmackDown to.
Speaker 3: The w W Championship.
Speaker 4: They actually had a title match at SummerSlam that year,
Speaker 4: and then he kind of had that feud with the
Speaker 4: Mizz of the Intercontinental Championship, and I thought that there
Speaker 4: was going places, and then it just kind of died again.
Speaker 4: And then he did the whole like the no music thing,
Speaker 4: the no entrance themes thing, and then he walked out
Speaker 4: after winning the US titles. So I just found that
Speaker 4: his character has been kind of hard to follow. He's
Speaker 4: all over the place. He was somewhat relevant when he
Speaker 4: teamed with Braun and McIntyre last year when he was
Speaker 4: on Raw. It's just and I feel bad because I
Speaker 4: do like the wrestler for the most part, but it's
Speaker 4: just been way too hard to follow because it's been
Speaker 4: all over the place.
Speaker 3: He's been faced, he's been heal, he's.
Speaker 4: Been kind of cocky and arrogant, or now he's kind
Speaker 4: of psycho. It's just too much and I just I
Speaker 4: don't see how there's any way that he actually wins
Speaker 4: this title or how I can even take him seriously.
Speaker 2: You can't. And that's a good point too, that his character,
Speaker 2: there's zero consistency in his not just as you said
Speaker 2: heal and face, just his personality, like we don't know
Speaker 2: who he is outside of a great in ring wrestler.
Speaker 2: We we just don't know who he is. And I'm
Speaker 2: sure that him as a as a person is extremely
Speaker 2: frustrated with Creative just not giving him a clear path
Speaker 2: and saying, yeah, you're you're this this month, this next month,
Speaker 2: but you know, we'll see how this goes, and then
Speaker 2: we pull back and then there's just stop start, stop, start,
Speaker 2: go over here, go over there, And when you get
Speaker 2: to that point, no matter how good you are in
Speaker 2: the ring, fans get complacent. They just go who cares?
Speaker 2: I mean, like this, this guy's clearly not the guy
Speaker 2: that WW is gonna get behind. How can we get
Speaker 2: behind him if we know that he's going nowhere? And
Speaker 2: that's exactly where Dolph Ziggler is and it's really unfortunate
Speaker 2: because I really think he could have been He could
Speaker 2: have been a top top guy had they given him
Speaker 2: a serious run and go all in with him at
Speaker 2: one point, but they never have. So let's let's get
Speaker 2: to something that we like and something that I like.
Speaker 2: And I thought I brought this up last time, but
Speaker 2: it is a shining light in my week of WWE,
Speaker 2: and that's a Firefly fun House Now I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Are you a fan of the Firefly fun House?
Speaker 3: Yes? Very much? So.
Speaker 2: Okay, now now that we're what almost two months, probably
Speaker 2: closing in maybe on two months of this, are you
Speaker 2: still as big of a fan? Are you ready to
Speaker 2: just say, oh my god, just dive you already? Where
Speaker 2: do you stand with this?
Speaker 3: I've loved it.
Speaker 4: There was a point where that one episode of him
Speaker 4: when he was like dancing and it was almost like
Speaker 4: a weird music video, and I looked at my girlfriend,
Speaker 4: I'm just like, did we take LSB? And I didn't know,
Speaker 4: but but on his ears note, there was a point
Speaker 4: where I was like, Okay, it's hanging old. But it
Speaker 4: actually worked out perfectly because they dropped the whole fiend
Speaker 4: thing for a bit, and there was either two or
Speaker 4: three weeks where you didn't really see him, and now
Speaker 4: he pulls you back in. And this episode was just
Speaker 4: amazing because now it's kind of it's starting to make
Speaker 4: a lot more sense that like, from what I'm taking
Speaker 4: from it is that he's saying like he was always rejected,
Speaker 4: so he created this altered ego to protect himself from it,
Speaker 4: And I just think it's amazing.
Speaker 3: I think they're really pushing the boundaries here of PG.
Speaker 4: Again, I think you shared the same concern, or the
Speaker 4: only concern I may have is that I just hope
Speaker 4: that when he finally does debut, they execute it properly,
Speaker 4: because they've built it so well better than anything they've
Speaker 4: done in the last number of years, that it would
Speaker 4: just kill me to see them just butcher it when
Speaker 4: he finally does debut.
Speaker 3: But as of right now, I think it's the best
Speaker 3: thing they have going.
Speaker 2: WWA cannot, under any circumstances screw this up. They can't.
Speaker 2: This is one of the best things, as you said,
Speaker 2: that they have had going in. I can't remember the
Speaker 2: last time, when is the last time that WWE has
Speaker 2: utilized Vignette's videos, promos, whatever, to this extent to where
Speaker 2: there's this much anticipation and for not only the video itself,
Speaker 2: but also when is he going to debut? I can't wait.
Speaker 2: What's gonna happen? How's it gonna be? Is he gonna
Speaker 2: come out in a sweater vest? Is he gonna come
Speaker 2: out as a fiend? How's it gonna work. Is he
Speaker 2: gonna be like Finn Balor and kind of a regular
Speaker 2: guy but bring out the demon when he needs to?
Speaker 2: I don't know, And I think that's the that's the
Speaker 2: interesting part, but also the part that I'm scared of,
Speaker 2: Like I'm nervous that they are going to really really
Speaker 2: mess this up and they can't. And bray Wyatt has
Speaker 2: done an amazing, amazing job going all in with this character.
Speaker 2: Like when I when I look at bray Wyatt, I
Speaker 2: believe that he's like that in real life. He's gotten
Speaker 2: me to that point where I believe that he is
Speaker 2: this crazy. Of course, I still know it's fantasy, but
Speaker 2: at the same time, when I'm watching, I get lost,
Speaker 2: and that's what I miss watching w w E. And
Speaker 2: I just I watch this this Firefly funhouse every week
Speaker 2: and I'm looking for Easter eggs and I'm looking for
Speaker 2: hints and there are there's so many layers to every
Speaker 2: episode that he's done that you could spend hours every
Speaker 2: week dissecting just that episode because of just all the
Speaker 2: different things that he's put in each episode, between the
Speaker 2: characters' names and the things that he says, the looks
Speaker 2: that he gives, the way he says things. There are
Speaker 2: so many different things that you could dissect that it's
Speaker 2: just it's so complex, but it's easy to follow at
Speaker 2: the same time, and he is he's a he's a
Speaker 2: master at making you just in pulling you in right now.
Speaker 2: He's masterful at that. And he has got us hooked.
Speaker 2: And it's been two months, I think around two months,
Speaker 2: probably a little bit less, but it's been to the
Speaker 2: I don't think it's I'm not to the point of,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm sick of this. Let's just get
Speaker 2: him in the in the ring. I want this to
Speaker 2: go as long as it needs to go, and I
Speaker 2: want creative behind the scenes and Vince McMahon to make
Speaker 2: sure they have all of their ducks in a row
Speaker 2: and have a long term plan for bray Wyatt, not
Speaker 2: just well we're debuting against I don't know Matt Hardy
Speaker 2: and see how he does. No, no, no, they need
Speaker 2: to have a vision and stick by their guns and
Speaker 2: go all out with this character and see their plan through,
Speaker 2: which hopefully is a three to six month maybe even
Speaker 2: longer plan for bray White. I need this to succeed,
Speaker 2: bray needs us to succeed, and WWE cannot flop on this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm really hoping that when he does come out,
Speaker 4: it's not just him, you know, squashing people like just
Speaker 4: no names or really bottom card guys. Because you mentioned
Speaker 4: this the last time we spoke about it. He's already
Speaker 4: an established wrestler. Sure he's been repackaged to the fullest extent,
Speaker 4: but people know who Bray White is. He's been a
Speaker 4: WWE champion, he's been around since twenty twelve or whatever
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 3: He can't just.
Speaker 4: Come in and you know, squash like Apollo Cruise or
Speaker 4: whatever one of the guy's chasing the twenty four seven title.
Speaker 4: He has to come in and get into a few
Speaker 4: that's worthwhile, like come in and attack Reigns or take
Speaker 4: or fight with Kofi Kingson. I want him to come
Speaker 4: in and make an impact because already his story of
Speaker 4: the Firefly.
Speaker 3: Hunhouse is making such an impact and he's not even
Speaker 3: in the ring. So I don't want.
Speaker 4: Him to show up on either Raw or SmackDown, or
Speaker 4: at this streat both and take a back seat. I
Speaker 4: want him to come in and I want this story
Speaker 4: to be the focal point of the show because I
Speaker 4: think it can be, and I think people want it
Speaker 4: to be. And he's just such a mastermind at it,
Speaker 4: as you brought up, and he's good in the ring.
Speaker 4: We've seen him be good in the ring. I just
Speaker 4: think that when he comes out, they better pick their
Speaker 4: spot properly, because it can't just be a storyline on
Speaker 4: the back burner. It has to be front and center.
Speaker 4: It has to be in a major storyline or possibly
Speaker 4: for a title. I don't know what they're gonna do,
Speaker 4: but I just know that they have to make it worthwhile.
Speaker 4: It can't just be an afterthought.
Speaker 2: No, it absolutely can't. WW has no choice on this one.
Speaker 2: And I don't say that lightly. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I've said that in quite a while, but if they
Speaker 2: botched this, there's gonna be I think a lot of
Speaker 2: angry fans that that are. I mean, they might I
Speaker 2: don't I don't want to say the rebel, but you
Speaker 2: could turn a lot of fans off very quickly if
Speaker 2: this is is failed, and it's failed on the part
Speaker 2: of WWE, and Bray White has put so much effort
Speaker 2: into this and has done an amazing job. So let's
Speaker 2: touch on the women's division, and I just have to
Speaker 2: put some quick thoughts. So in general, you know, for
Speaker 2: a while, it felt as if Becky Lynch, I think
Speaker 2: has been cooled off and I think that she has
Speaker 2: been kind of just flopping out there since WrestleMania. I
Speaker 2: alluded to a few weeks ago that maybe it's because
Speaker 2: she hasn't had the great dance partner of Ronda Rowsey
Speaker 2: hanging around, which I think is a is a big
Speaker 2: contributing factor. And you have Lacey Evans who's been put
Speaker 2: front and center against Becky Lynch. And while some people
Speaker 2: may really really dislike Lacy Evans and thinks she's undeserving,
Speaker 2: and yes, she had a terrible match against Charlotte a
Speaker 2: number of weeks ago. Of course it was awful. It
Speaker 2: was probably the worst match of the year. But you
Speaker 2: need to establish new stars and build new stars. You
Speaker 2: can't just have all the time stars against stars. You
Speaker 2: need to have people that are up and coming, and
Speaker 2: after WrestleMania is the perfect time to do it, to
Speaker 2: build that new star for the new year. And I
Speaker 2: think overall, Lacy Evans has done a good job as
Speaker 2: the heel. I don't think she's masterful in the ring.
Speaker 2: She does need work, but that'll come in time. She's
Speaker 2: got her promo down better than most do when they
Speaker 2: come up from NXT, even though she does speak a
Speaker 2: little bit slow, and Becky Lynch alluded to that pretty
Speaker 2: well on Monday net Raw, but I think she's she's
Speaker 2: got a good presence. I don't mind her right now
Speaker 2: is the challenger because I want to see Lacy Evans
Speaker 2: get her kicked and that's what I want to feel.
Speaker 2: And Becky Lynch, on the other hand, has kind of
Speaker 2: felt lukewarm. I haven't got that spark, that energy that
Speaker 2: I want as a as Becky Lynch really had when
Speaker 2: she turned heel and turned her really into the biggest
Speaker 2: babyface in WWE, but has since cooled off and right
Speaker 2: now she's I don't think going to be getting back
Speaker 2: to that status when she's in a program with Lacy Evans. However,
Speaker 2: right now I'm fine with Lacy Evans and going against
Speaker 2: Becky Lynch. We all know Lacy Evans isn't going to
Speaker 2: win the championship, at least not at this time. So
Speaker 2: those are my thoughts. What do you think about the
Speaker 2: women's division, and not just even Becky and Lacy Evans,
Speaker 2: but the SmackDown women's division.
Speaker 3: As well well.
Speaker 4: I think the women's division as a whole has kind
Speaker 4: of I won't see torpedoed, but it hasn't been as
Speaker 4: good as it was pre Wrestlmingia, because leading up to WrestleMania,
Speaker 4: I would argue that it was much more entertaining than
Speaker 4: the men's division. But since Wrestlingia, you know, Charlotte's kind
Speaker 4: of she's been there, but now like the past few weeks,
Speaker 4: she's kind have not been around. Sasha Banks has been
Speaker 4: on a hiatus. We haven't really seen Naomi or Ember
Speaker 4: Moon prominent roles, so it's kind of just been Bailey,
Speaker 4: Becky and Lacy Evans. Becky, I find she's gotten really stale,
Speaker 4: you know. I feel like her promos have just becne
Speaker 4: the same thing, calling people.
Speaker 3: Blokes or what have you.
Speaker 4: And I won't say that I'm happy that she's cooled
Speaker 4: off to this extent.
Speaker 3: But I am also because I think people took Ronda.
Speaker 4: Rousey for granted and they didn't realize just how good
Speaker 4: Rowsey was in promos and in the ring, and as
Speaker 4: you said before, she was a great dance partner for Becky.
Speaker 3: I personally really like Lacy Evans.
Speaker 4: Obviously she does need work in the ring, but I
Speaker 4: think she's hammered down her character perfectly. Her promos are good,
Speaker 4: you understand her standpoint, and she's just not quite there
Speaker 4: to elevate Becky's game. I just think that Becky's become
Speaker 4: just repetitive and it's the same thing and we know
Speaker 4: that people have held you down and blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: and I don't know. I just I've had a hard
Speaker 4: time getting behind Becky lately. But as for Lacey, I
Speaker 4: think she's been the best part of the women's division
Speaker 4: up until Alexa Bliss getting back into entering competition, because
Speaker 4: I think that Alexa Bliss Bailey storyline is much more intriguing,
Speaker 4: aside from the fact that Alexa Bliss is a raw
Speaker 4: competitor fighting for the Smackdowens title.
Speaker 3: But we already touched the wildcard rule.
Speaker 4: But as a whole, I think that storyline of Bailey
Speaker 4: and Alexa is much more intriguing than Becky and Lacey
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm glad you brought up Becky and Alexa
Speaker 2: because that's something I wanted to talk to about as well.
Speaker 2: But just to finish up on Becky and Lacey, I
Speaker 2: really think that they As you said, Lacy Evans has
Speaker 2: her character. She down more than most do and more
Speaker 2: than some more established stars do. And she has come
Speaker 2: up from NXT and made it impact, made it impact quickly,
Speaker 2: and that's what you want. And she feels different than
Speaker 2: most of the women. That's what you want too. You
Speaker 2: want to differentiate yourself from the pack. She's done that.
Speaker 2: She's the sassy Southern Bell or whatever cute nickname they
Speaker 2: give her. But she plays the part. She goes all in.
Speaker 2: That's what I want, and she does it, and she's
Speaker 2: got a really good looking finish. I like the woman's right,
Speaker 2: it's it's nice. It's kind of the female version of
Speaker 2: Big Shows WMD Weapon of Mass Destruction. I'm fine with it.
Speaker 2: I think it's unique. And you know, on top of that, Becky,
Speaker 2: as you said, has kind of just spun her wheels.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of a that's a good analogy.
Speaker 2: She's just there running on old fumes, not giving us
Speaker 2: something new to get behind her on. She's just still
Speaker 2: kind of in WrestleMania post match mode. Instead of looking
Speaker 2: ahead and just saying the same things you said, it good.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's just saying, everybody's held me down. I've
Speaker 2: done this all my life. I've put dopes down like you. Okay,
Speaker 2: well come up, we need something more, Becky. Please. Right now,
Speaker 2: I'm starting to lose a little bit of interest in
Speaker 2: Becky Lynch. She's nowhere near how hot she was. If
Speaker 2: you would put her out of ten from how hot
Speaker 2: she was the night after the Royal Rumble, I'd say
Speaker 2: she's about a three or a four right now. That's
Speaker 2: based on crowd reaction. That's just based how I feel
Speaker 2: sitting at home watching her. I mean, I'm interested when
Speaker 2: she comes out, but I don't have that unpredictable feeling.
Speaker 2: I don't have the rebellious nature, that instinct that I
Speaker 2: felt when Becky Lynch came out. She's just kind of
Speaker 2: another one of the women, and she happens to be champion,
Speaker 2: and I don't want that for Becky Lynch. As far
Speaker 2: as Bailey and Alexa go man. That promo they had
Speaker 2: on SmackDown, While they clearly booked it for a work
Speaker 2: shoot promo, it came cross very real and I'm sure
Speaker 2: that a lot of that, some of that material was
Speaker 2: instinctual and from their own brains in the moment. And
Speaker 2: that's what I love too. When Alexa noted to Bailey, hey,
Speaker 2: you know you peaked an NXT. What have you done
Speaker 2: since you got here? And boy is that true? Since
Speaker 2: Bailey got here outside of her being the I don't
Speaker 2: know she was some surprise tag team partner. I forget it,
Speaker 2: what pay per view? She has just gone up, down, up, down, down, down, down,
Speaker 2: down down, and her and Sasha going back and forth
Speaker 2: and the love you Hate You mode for a year
Speaker 2: and a half and the Bailey this is your life
Speaker 2: that she had with ironically Alexa Bliss a year and
Speaker 2: a half ago. None of that did her any favors,
Speaker 2: and the promo they had it brought it all back together.
Speaker 2: It made Bailey human again. It It really also kind
Speaker 2: of made me side with Alexa because she had a
Speaker 2: lot of good valid points that as a heel. I
Speaker 2: typically don't. I'm not supposed to. I feel like I
Speaker 2: agree with and you know, see that they're see their
Speaker 2: side of it. But they both had some scathing things
Speaker 2: to say. And yes, of course it was a workshoot promo,
Speaker 2: but I don't know, I loved it. What did you
Speaker 2: think about that on SmackDown Lives?
Speaker 4: Oh, it was really good. It felt real, it felt authentic.
Speaker 4: I liked I well, in general, I've liked the nikky
Speaker 4: cross element to it. I like that, like, you know,
Speaker 4: the whole manipulation on the part of Alexa Bliss, and yeah,
Speaker 4: I just think that a lot of it felt like
Speaker 4: it came from the gut with them. It's made me
Speaker 4: care about Bailey. It's not just like she you know,
Speaker 4: she was the cartoon character and at first it was fine,
Speaker 4: but then the fire dynam quick. But lately, like I
Speaker 4: like seeing her come out just in street clothes and
Speaker 4: jeans and a T shirt and regular girl heels or whatever,
Speaker 4: and it just felt like she's more relatable now, and
Speaker 4: so it.
Speaker 3: Makes me care about Bailey. It makes me you want
Speaker 3: to support her.
Speaker 4: And Alexa, well, she's just always been great as a
Speaker 4: heel and getting heat. But yeah, I'm really invested in
Speaker 4: this match. I'm looking forward to this match as opposed
Speaker 4: to the raw one where I just really couldn't care
Speaker 4: at this point. But yeah, I really like what Bailey
Speaker 4: and Alecxa have done and that promo they had on
Speaker 4: Spact that was amazing, And.
Speaker 2: Like you said in One Fell Swoop, they made me
Speaker 2: care about this program more than they have ever since
Speaker 2: they started having a few, and that was years ago too.
Speaker 2: This this is not something I want to see all
Speaker 2: the time. I don't need this workshoot style every single time.
Speaker 2: But when it's done in dribs and drabs here and there,
Speaker 2: when you don't see it coming, that's when it's the
Speaker 2: most effective. So just because it was super effective this
Speaker 2: week doesn't mean I want to see it every single week.
Speaker 2: I don't mind the you know, the typical WWE created promo.
Speaker 2: Sometimes that's not a bad thing to have. I don't
Speaker 2: want to make it feel like they're reading lines. But
Speaker 2: I also don't need the shoot aspect all the time
Speaker 2: because it just it takes me out of the moment
Speaker 2: I need. I need it occasionally. So yeah, the street
Speaker 2: clothes thing, and while Alexi said it looks like you're
Speaker 2: working at you know, Forever twenty one, which made me laugh.
Speaker 2: It did humanize her, just as it did with Drew McIntyre,
Speaker 2: not constantly seeing him in street clothes or in his
Speaker 2: wrestling gear and having him just wear jeans and his
Speaker 2: shirt or whatever. Just the simple thing of that humanizes
Speaker 2: people quickly. And Bailey was a cartoon character. Bailey buddies.
Speaker 2: I just like to hug people. I come out and
Speaker 2: I'm all colorful. I want to who's Bailey. I need
Speaker 2: to know who you are as a person and what
Speaker 2: your mission is. Apparently you're done giving hugs, but your
Speaker 2: Bailey buddies are still here. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: But the Nikki crossing is interesting too. And for Bailey
Speaker 2: to say to NICKI, Hey, do you remember Naya Jacks?
Speaker 2: What did Alexa do to Nia Jacks? You remember Mickey James?
Speaker 2: What did she do to Mickey James? How do you
Speaker 2: not see this coming? And interestingly too, I don't know
Speaker 2: if this was by design or not, but Nicky Cross
Speaker 2: never actually punched, kicked, did anything too to to Bailey
Speaker 2: to pull her off of Alexa. Other than just pull
Speaker 2: her off, There was no actual physical exchange between the two.
Speaker 2: So whether Nicky Cross turns on Alexa or not remains
Speaker 2: to be seen. But it was just interesting that they
Speaker 2: never actually had a physical exchange in that moment that
Speaker 2: she could have and there was there was also a
Speaker 2: pause or a hesitation by Nicki after Bailey had started
Speaker 2: attacking Alexa, So that's just something interesting. But yeah, to
Speaker 2: take Nicky Cross into this, it does add another layer.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the endgame is for Nicky, but
Speaker 2: I hope it ends with Nicky not looking like a fool.
Speaker 5: You know, Matt, you said something in there that I
Speaker 5: wanted to touch on because it doesn't have to do
Speaker 5: with the women particularly, but you said that it worked
Speaker 5: this week, So I hope they don't keep using it
Speaker 5: and gets diluted because I think we've touched on When
Speaker 5: Vince McMahon likes something, he beats that thing to death.
Speaker 4: And one thing that I don't understand why he keeps
Speaker 4: going to is Sammy Sane and Kevin Owens.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't understand why that these two constantly
Speaker 3: have to be paired together as just glorified trolls, and
Speaker 3: because they have relatively big names attached to them that
Speaker 3: like their losses will automatically put over the over guys,
Speaker 3: and it's just been something bothering me that like these guys,
Speaker 3: like I've has had seen them been building matches like
Speaker 3: final time ever culmination of former best friends they won't
Speaker 3: meet again. Now one's on raw, one's unsmacked up, but
Speaker 3: then for some reason they're always just put back together
Speaker 3: as giant trolls. And it's just it's bothered me that,
Speaker 3: like it's been going on for so long now, because
Speaker 3: now we're coming up on two years that the whole
Speaker 3: thing started with the angle against ironically Shane McMahon, that
Speaker 3: that's all that they've been and since the days where
Speaker 3: Sammy Sing was actually a somewhat relevant mid card guy
Speaker 3: and Kevin Owens was a competitor against aj Styles for
Speaker 3: the US title and the Universal Championship, And now I
Speaker 3: just feel like, because their whole slightly heeled comedic act work,
Speaker 3: that that's all they use these guys for. And I
Speaker 3: just feel like these guys are being wasted big time.
Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna try to remain a little calm here
Speaker 2: because last night I went I went off on this
Speaker 2: topic that Kevin Owens and Sammy's ain they are sorely underutilized,
Speaker 2: and that is being the most mild I can be.
Speaker 2: Do they have such an upside? I don't care if
Speaker 2: Vince McMahon looks at Kevin Owens and says, look at him,
Speaker 2: he's got a beer gut. He can't be the face
Speaker 2: of the WWE. I mean, I feel like that's what
Speaker 2: Vince McMahon is thinking. And I don't know why they
Speaker 2: put him as Universal Champion. And since that time after
Speaker 2: Triple H handed it to him, if we all forgot
Speaker 2: he lost to Goldberg and then we have he just
Speaker 2: spiraled down into an abyss. And once he was doing
Speaker 2: these promo videos to come back, if you want to
Speaker 2: call him promo videos. He's in a bowling alley with
Speaker 2: his kids, he's at a movie theater and he comes
Speaker 2: back as a babyface, and I'm like, all right, cool,
Speaker 2: Like I want to see how this Kevin Owens' babyface
Speaker 2: run goes. And they cut that so quickly that I well,
Speaker 2: I mean, everyone said all they shouldn't have done it
Speaker 2: that quick, and I'm kind of torn because we all
Speaker 2: knew the other shoe was gonna drop and it was
Speaker 2: a matter of time when he turned here Okay, so
Speaker 2: he turns, heal, he's back to where we all thought
Speaker 2: he was going to be anyway. But then they just
Speaker 2: have him lose and lose and lose. What has Sammy
Speaker 2: done since he came back and was a critic of
Speaker 2: the critics, which I think has gotten good momentum and
Speaker 2: I actually enjoy It's something different, unique, And they bring
Speaker 2: out an electric chair one week, which made no sense,
Speaker 2: but they had an interaction with fans and it seemed legitimate.
Speaker 2: It didn't seem like they were plants in the audience.
Speaker 2: You get to ask Sammy z Ain questions and he
Speaker 2: attacks the fans and he's the critic of the critics.
Speaker 2: I think that was great, it was original. I am
Speaker 2: enjoying it, and they gave him a lot of time
Speaker 2: to do it. And yet braun Stroman comes out flattens him.
Speaker 2: You know, Kofi Kingston beats him like there. And I
Speaker 2: know wins and losses don't really matter too much in
Speaker 2: the in the world of professional wrestling, this fantasy environment,
Speaker 2: but I can't get behind characters that lose and lose
Speaker 2: and lose and lose, and two guys that could easily
Speaker 2: either one be a top guy and I'm talking champion
Speaker 2: just to Samojo, and maybe we'll touch on Samojo too.
Speaker 2: You can put Samoa Jo in this argument too. All
Speaker 2: three guys, why are they being just just pushed to
Speaker 2: the side, not given an opportunity to take the ball
Speaker 2: and just go to the end zone when they could
Speaker 2: easily do it. All three are are very experienced independent scene.
Speaker 2: They've had their independent scene run. They know who they are.
Speaker 2: They are, they understand the business, they understand the psychology.
Speaker 2: They can work a crowd, they can have amazing matches,
Speaker 2: and yet they lose week after week after week. And maybe,
Speaker 2: and I said this last night, maybe it's because for
Speaker 2: Kevin Owens anyway, that he's being punished by management for
Speaker 2: not going to Saudi Arabia. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: know the reasoning, but it is maddening that three, these
Speaker 2: three guys who could if my god, maybe they're eyeing
Speaker 2: a w because if they ever go to AW and
Speaker 2: are allowed to just creatively do whatever they want, look out.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure they feel handcuffed. I'm sure all
Speaker 2: three feel frustrated. So I'll just stop there.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and we saw glimpses of the old Kevin
Speaker 4: Owens when he was like that vicious heel, like he
Speaker 4: could really be a force that you reckon with Samy's ay,
Speaker 4: and it feels as though, like, unless he's just riding
Speaker 4: shotgun with Kevin Owens, he's a nobody to them. And
Speaker 4: it's kind of weird because when he first came back
Speaker 4: and he was the critic of the critics, you thought like, Okay,
Speaker 4: they're finally gonna let him go off on his own,
Speaker 4: but no, he just somehow inexplicably used the wild card
Speaker 4: rule again, jumped a SmackDown, and now him he's basically
Speaker 4: riding shotgun with Kevin, like I just said. As for
Speaker 4: Samoa Joe, it's just it's feeling like bray White all
Speaker 4: over again, where he's like this vicious, like evil heel
Speaker 4: and like no one can stop him, and then he
Speaker 4: I remember you talked about how like Somojo has this
Speaker 4: aspect that even when he loses, he makes you believe
Speaker 4: that he's gonna come back better than ever. But even
Speaker 4: when he loses now he always has that like look
Speaker 4: of shock on his face. I don't know if you
Speaker 4: know what I'm talking about, where he gets rolled up
Speaker 4: and he's like completely distraught.
Speaker 3: But it happens so often.
Speaker 4: He loses so much that that look on his face.
Speaker 3: It's not even realistic anymore. It's almost funny to me
Speaker 3: because you're just like, how is he shocked? This always
Speaker 3: happens to him. He always loses. And I know that
Speaker 3: they put the US title back on him, which I am.
Speaker 4: Happy about because I think he's a guy that could
Speaker 4: benefit from it and the title could benefit from him
Speaker 4: as well. I still find it ridiculous that he got
Speaker 4: it because Raymond Steer just vacated it. I remember you
Speaker 4: touched on it, Like when has that ever happened before?
Speaker 4: The title never just gets vacated and then handed to someone.
Speaker 4: It always has to be fought for, like what happened
Speaker 4: with Roman Reigns when he had to go away for
Speaker 4: his leukemia. So even though they put the belt back
Speaker 4: on Joe, it doesn't mean anything because they just handed
Speaker 4: it to him. But another thing is like, do titles
Speaker 4: mean anything anymore? Obviously the two major titles of the
Speaker 4: Universal and the WWE means something. But again, Finn Baler,
Speaker 4: besides his win against Andradi a Super Showdown, I don't
Speaker 4: even know if I've seen him on television, let alone
Speaker 4: win a match since he's been drafted the SmackDown. Samoa
Speaker 4: Joe is the US champ, but I don't think he's
Speaker 4: one match since being the US champ. And as for
Speaker 4: the tag team titles, well, Hawkins and Ryder literally lost
Speaker 4: it their first titled event since WrestleMania, and that's that's
Speaker 4: just ridiculous to me. Like I think people had forgotten
Speaker 4: that they had these titles and that's why they eventually
Speaker 4: just put them back on the Revival. So yeah, I
Speaker 4: think Joe at this point is just a very big
Speaker 4: victim of just how badly they use the titles right now.
Speaker 2: It's a crime. I mean, I feel like this could
Speaker 2: be a felony of sorts, Like there's got to be
Speaker 2: some kind of penal code for this. It's it's awful.
Speaker 2: And Samoa Joe is a guy that could easily be
Speaker 2: a top guy, you know. And when I said that
Speaker 2: about Samoa Joe and his promos, he is you could
Speaker 2: have him lose and his promo the next night would
Speaker 2: make you feel like he won and you want to
Speaker 2: see him you lose again. He's got that ability, and
Speaker 2: that is an ability I don't really know anybody has
Speaker 2: that I can think of beyond Smojoe. It is such
Speaker 2: a good quality. But he loses and loses and loses.
Speaker 2: It's it's as if his one win was a fluke
Speaker 2: win and it happened to be for a championship and
Speaker 2: since then, I mean, he constantly loses. At WrestleMania, I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: here we go. He beat Raymisterio in like a blink
Speaker 2: of an eye. They're gonna finally strap the rocket to him.
Speaker 2: He's just gonna tear through in the SmackDown Live roster
Speaker 2: and they're just gonna have him be a bulldozer. And
Speaker 2: he loses and loses and loses on roll ups and
Speaker 2: roll ups and roll ups, and it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous
Speaker 2: That'smojo would lose on a roll up, the guy that
Speaker 2: nearly beat brock Lesner straight up. So but as far
Speaker 2: as the tag team champions go, if we're gonna jump
Speaker 2: into that realm the revival, yeah, I think it's simply
Speaker 2: because they are associated with Shane McMahon and they want
Speaker 2: to get more heat on that faction that they have
Speaker 2: the Gold and they were told, if you bring the Gold,
Speaker 2: you can come to the party. Well, they brought the
Speaker 2: gold and now they're invited to that backstage champagne lobster
Speaker 2: whatever it was that Roman Reigns ended up crashing. But
Speaker 2: on the flip side, I'm really liking Rowan and Brian
Speaker 2: as champions on SmackDown Live and Heavy Machinery. I really
Speaker 2: think that they are good, formidable opponents for daniel'brien and
Speaker 2: for Rowan. Rowan, who has been reinvented from the really
Speaker 2: the third wheel of the Wyatt family and has been
Speaker 2: re educated to us as a legitimate threat, a legitimate
Speaker 2: big man, a guy that can take a lot of punishment,
Speaker 2: kick out of finishers, and is the heavy for Daniel Bryan.
Speaker 2: And I'm really liking this duo the Planet's champions. I
Speaker 2: think that Daniel Brian has done a great job with
Speaker 2: his veganism brought to the max to be arrogant and
Speaker 2: an obnoxious and they're doing a really good job. Despite
Speaker 2: the fact that they are not being booked to be
Speaker 2: anywhere near the focal point of the show. They are
Speaker 2: always a highlight of the show because Daniel Brian is
Speaker 2: so believable and his delivery is always very smooth. It's
Speaker 2: easy to understand, and it's they're arrogant, and the fact
Speaker 2: that Daniel Bryan has been able to pull the wool
Speaker 2: over fans eyes and in a way that you resent
Speaker 2: Daniel Brian now a character that we never thought we'd
Speaker 2: hate again is just a tribute to the genius and
Speaker 2: mastery that is Daniel Brian and he's and Rowan is
Speaker 2: certainly benefiting from this, and that's that's always a plus.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Daniel Brian is brilliant. I think he's one of
Speaker 4: the best talkers right now. He's a great wrestler and
Speaker 4: he's just great in whatever role he does. He's really
Speaker 4: taking the ball and run with it. In his he'll
Speaker 4: full blown he'l Vegan mode. And I think Rowan is
Speaker 4: really excelled. He got a shot and he's really been
Speaker 4: like taking advantage of it. And I really it's good
Speaker 4: to see how well they're doing because if I've seen
Speaker 4: this though before WrestleMania SmackDown was loaded with tag teams
Speaker 4: and now all of a sudden, there's none. You know,
Speaker 4: Jeff Hardy got hurt, so they're so the Hardy Boys
Speaker 4: don't exist right now.
Speaker 3: The USOS went to Raw.
Speaker 4: The New Day have basically been taken out because of
Speaker 4: what's gone on with Kofi. The bar inexplicably dismembered, and
Speaker 4: now Cesarro is off being some weird character on Raw
Speaker 4: that we'll get to. But yeah, I really like what
Speaker 4: they've done on SmackDown Rowan and Brian, that is, I
Speaker 4: like how Brian has alluded to the fact that SmackDown
Speaker 4: has no formidable tag team challengers. As for Heavy Machinery,
Speaker 4: I really like them. They feel like an old school
Speaker 4: type tag team. I find them funny too, and they're
Speaker 4: well placed comedy because it's organic they don't go out
Speaker 4: of their way to but they.
Speaker 3: Also are good in the ring.
Speaker 4: I find them entertaining, and I think it's a good
Speaker 4: kind of feud because obviously Heavy Machinery are rather heavier
Speaker 4: set guys. Daniel Brian can kind of, like, you know,
Speaker 4: grasp on to that about like the whole vegan thing
Speaker 4: and being healthy and not stuff in your face with gluten.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's been a really bright spot. I've always liked.
Speaker 4: Daniel Brian Rowan's been nice touch and they've had good
Speaker 4: chemistry with Heavy Machinery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and while we're on that subject, as you said
Speaker 2: about Cizarrow, though I don't know what they're doing with Czarrow.
Speaker 2: I don't think Cesarrow knows what they're doing with Czarrow.
Speaker 2: It's just another iteration of them trying to find and
Speaker 2: Cesarrow trying to find who he is. We all know
Speaker 2: he is freakishly strong in the ring, he's a great competitor,
Speaker 2: he is in incredible shape. All of that is true,
Speaker 2: check check check. The problem is he has never been
Speaker 2: able to organically connect with the fans on a level
Speaker 2: that's outside of the tag team of the bar. And
Speaker 2: even the bar didn't really like it. Never connected with me,
Speaker 2: like I understood who they were, but I never was saying, oh, hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: I understand what you I mean, I can I feel
Speaker 2: what you're doing. They just kind of came up with
Speaker 2: the catchphrase that you know we are we aren't the bar,
Speaker 2: we set the bar, you know whatever, And they never
Speaker 2: just felt like they were something that would be long term.
Speaker 2: They were just in good in ring competitors. And now Cizzar,
Speaker 2: as you said it, is doing this whatever he's doing
Speaker 2: with new music. Okay, he's refreshed with new music. I'd
Speaker 2: like to see a promo from him to let us
Speaker 2: know who he is. But his in ring competition on
Speaker 2: Monday Night certainly spoke for itself. And that's where he
Speaker 2: does most of his talking is in the ring.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And in his crazy strength that he you know, what
Speaker 2: he showed against Bronz Stroman was just otherworldly. Uh. And
Speaker 2: you know he has that ability to go toe to
Speaker 2: toe with anybody and put on a five star match
Speaker 2: if given the time. So, I mean, obviously that match
Speaker 2: was really more focused around Broun Stroman, who tossed everybody
Speaker 2: around for you know, half the match until he was
Speaker 2: eliminated by two guys who were already eliminated and then
Speaker 2: hit you know, about three finishers on him before he
Speaker 2: was taken out of the match. So what did you
Speaker 2: think about that match and what did you think about
Speaker 2: Cizarrow getting kind of repackaged.
Speaker 3: Well, the match was good, the match was entertaining.
Speaker 4: I think it was like a cool aspect that it
Speaker 4: was the elimination factor. As for Cizarrow, I think it's
Speaker 4: never been in doubt how good he is in the ring.
Speaker 4: I remember, even before the bar he had one or
Speaker 4: two really really good matches with John cenn Raw and
Speaker 4: people were always kind of waiting for him to break out.
Speaker 4: And then when he got paired with Seamus, I was
Speaker 4: personally a.
Speaker 3: Fan of the Bar. I liked them.
Speaker 4: I've always liked Shamus, and I found that they were
Speaker 4: also kind of like an old school like brutish tag team.
Speaker 4: But ever since he's been repackaged, it kind of made
Speaker 4: me realize why he.
Speaker 3: Was in a tag team because he I don't know
Speaker 3: who he is.
Speaker 4: I don't know what his character is, and I found
Speaker 4: it weird because they feel like there was even confusion
Speaker 4: between him and the creative because when he first started
Speaker 4: coming out on raw solo post WrestleMania without Seamus, he
Speaker 4: came out using Seamus's music and then they quickly switched
Speaker 4: it to new music. But then for the biggest while,
Speaker 4: he was still coming out with the Bar wrestling attire
Speaker 4: and doing the sign coming to the ring, while the
Speaker 4: commentators were making no reference to the Bar.
Speaker 3: And it's only been the past few.
Speaker 4: Weeks where he's got rid of the sign and got
Speaker 4: rid of the attires, So it's almost been me just
Speaker 4: not taking him seriously because obviously he's good in the
Speaker 4: ring and no one can take that away from him,
Speaker 4: but it's just the whole character direction just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: He hasn't said a word since coming over to Raw
Speaker 4: and being dismembered from the bar. So I can't get
Speaker 4: behind him because I just don't know who he is.
Speaker 4: I don't know why he's there. I don't know why
Speaker 4: him and Shamus broke up. I know, for real reasons.
Speaker 3: I think Seamus left to go fill him teenage mutant
Speaker 3: Ninja turtles or something thing.
Speaker 4: But just tell me why, tell me what happened, Just
Speaker 4: tell me anything, you know. It could be as easy
Speaker 4: as when Bobby Rood and Chad Gable split and Ruges said, ah,
Speaker 4: he was weighing me down and I shed two hundred
Speaker 4: pounds of nothing.
Speaker 3: Okay, at least I get it, at least I know why.
Speaker 4: But like, I have no reason as to why won
Speaker 4: the most successful tag teams over the last two and
Speaker 4: a half years randomly dismembered.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but it's just been kind of hard for.
Speaker 4: Me to get behind him when it's like there's been
Speaker 4: no explanation as to why he's solo.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a funny point. I mean, when you
Speaker 2: see Cizarro outside of a tag team, you just said it.
Speaker 2: I mean, you go, oh, that's why they put him
Speaker 2: in a tag team and him and Seamus before they
Speaker 2: became the Bar. We're having a best of seven series
Speaker 2: and if you remember, they got to game seven, if
Speaker 2: you will, they got to the seventh match, of course,
Speaker 2: and I believe that match ended in a draw. And
Speaker 2: so Mick Foley decided to put them together, and they
Speaker 2: reluctantly were together for I don't know how many months
Speaker 2: before they finally started to gel and just accepted each other,
Speaker 2: and the fans got behind him for a while. It
Speaker 2: was Boo shamous, yay Cesarrow, Boo shamous, yay Czarrow, and
Speaker 2: then they just kind of morphed into one and you know,
Speaker 2: outside of their catchphrase, they didn't say a whole lot.
Speaker 2: It was just their catchphrase. And so now that he's
Speaker 2: on his own, he needs to tell us his identity
Speaker 2: and tell us it fast. While you while you kind
Speaker 2: of alluded to it, and I agree that I'll get
Speaker 2: behind him because I like Cesarrow as an in ring performer.
Speaker 2: I respect him so much and he's so good that
Speaker 2: I'll get behind him until they tell me otherwise. But
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get super excited about who he
Speaker 2: is or where he's going until I'm told who he
Speaker 2: is until they tell me something. But WWE doesn't care
Speaker 2: about detail, and Vince McMahon you can hear him backstage. Oh,
Speaker 2: people don't remember that. People don't care, They just want
Speaker 2: to be entertained. Well, here's how you entertain people by
Speaker 2: telling them detail and rewarding them for paying attention to detail.
Speaker 2: But that's not gonna happen. You know, we'll never get
Speaker 2: an explanation, just as and I don't know why I
Speaker 2: keep bringing this up, but it irks me. Charlotte got
Speaker 2: a SmackDown Women's Championship title match a week before WrestleMania,
Speaker 2: yet and she won. I mean there was no zero
Speaker 2: explanation against Oscar for that. I mean things like that.
Speaker 2: How can you overlook that? How can you not tell
Speaker 2: fans why this is happening or how it's happening. Obviously,
Speaker 2: Ciesarro and Seamus breaking up, I don't think is on
Speaker 2: the scale of Charlotte winning the SmackDown Women's Championship a
Speaker 2: week before WrestleMania. But it's that same logic, that same
Speaker 2: mentality that WWE has creatively Vince McMahon that we don't
Speaker 2: need to tell him, we'll come up with something later. No,
Speaker 2: one's gonna ask, well, we're asking, we're asking why wouldn't
Speaker 2: we want to know? And it's a fundamental problem with WWE.
Speaker 4: And you know what, I like that you brought up
Speaker 4: the lack of logic because this is something and it's
Speaker 4: been amplifed by the wildcard rule that's been bothering me.
Speaker 4: Why is it that heels who have never come into
Speaker 4: contact before, or heels that have had past beef with
Speaker 4: each other, just because their heels they're friends? Like why
Speaker 4: do Sammy Zain and Kevin Owens inexplicably have the back
Speaker 4: of Baron Corbyn?
Speaker 3: Why is it that like Baron Corbyn can bump.
Speaker 4: Into Bobby Lashley backstage and all of a sudden their
Speaker 4: buddies and it goes on to SmackDown Sea McMahon's walking
Speaker 4: into the building, Sammy Zane and Kevin Owens are there
Speaker 4: to greet him and kiss his ass. Do we not
Speaker 4: remember what went on a year and a half ago
Speaker 4: that lasted six months between Seaye McMahon and Kevin Owens
Speaker 4: and Sammy z Ain. It's just like I understand the
Speaker 4: premise of it that eventually heals will side with heels
Speaker 4: and babyfaces will side with baby faces, but like, let
Speaker 4: me know why you guys are siding like with each other.
Speaker 4: I always found it cool when heels would come into
Speaker 4: contact with each other and they would actually like have
Speaker 4: a bit of beef and say like, oh, you know,
Speaker 4: like I don't like you, but the the enemy of
Speaker 4: my enemy is my friend or whatever it is. But like,
Speaker 4: just give me something, like I just can't get behind like, okay,
Speaker 4: they're together because they're two heels.
Speaker 3: No, why are they together?
Speaker 4: Why is this guy backing this guy? And it's just
Speaker 4: it's too much of just like it's just lazy, like
Speaker 4: oh yeah, like.
Speaker 3: You mentioned about Vince mcmatt.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, they will remember that Sammy San and Kevin
Speaker 4: Owens and made the shame mcmhan's life a living hell
Speaker 4: for five or six months on end.
Speaker 3: It's just like, give me something. It just can't be
Speaker 3: so easy as heels are friends of heels and babyfaces
Speaker 3: are friends of babyfaces.
Speaker 2: I think maybe the logic would be, if you're if
Speaker 2: I'm talking to Vince McMahon, why are all heels automatically friends?
Speaker 2: Maybe his explanation would be, well, fans aren't gonna care
Speaker 2: about two heels fighting each other. There's no investment there.
Speaker 2: They have nobody to get behind. And that's probably what
Speaker 2: he would say, is that's the reason that no one
Speaker 2: would care who wins if they got in in any
Speaker 2: kind of argument or program, because no one would care. However,
Speaker 2: you could create a new star and see who who
Speaker 2: the fans would organically get behind by putting two heels together.
Speaker 2: They did that, maybe you remember or not with Kurt
Speaker 2: Angle and Triple H when Kurt Angle was getting with
Speaker 2: Stephanie McMahon and getting a little close, but Triple H
Speaker 2: was still the heel. So do you side with Angle?
Speaker 2: Do you side with Triple H? And ww left it
Speaker 2: up to the fans to decide. That's how you created.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and exactly culminated at Summerstime two thousand and a
Speaker 4: triple threat match with The Rock, and it actually happened
Speaker 4: where the Kurt Angle and Triple H brawled for about
Speaker 4: ten minutes before the Rock even got to the ring.
Speaker 4: And now I'm not not like you are right because
Speaker 4: why would heels like go against each other? The fans
Speaker 4: women get behind it, and I'm not saying that, but
Speaker 4: it's it's also it's and more so in the fact
Speaker 4: that like Why are Sammy Zinging and Kevin Owens so
Speaker 4: behind helping Baron Corbin out? Why can't heels trying to
Speaker 4: undercut each other? Like I liked it a bit when
Speaker 4: Baron Corbin tried to like take advantage of Drew McIntyre
Speaker 4: in a Number one Contenders match.
Speaker 3: Something like that.
Speaker 4: I just I want a bit more of like a
Speaker 4: bit more meat behind the storyline, Like explain to me
Speaker 4: why they're helping him. I'm not saying that they have to,
Speaker 4: you know, go against each other, because you are right there.
Speaker 4: I don't think there would be too much emotional investment
Speaker 4: in from the fans. But at the same time, it
Speaker 4: can't just be Okay, well, they're both bad guys, so
Speaker 4: he's gonna have automatically come out to help him, like
Speaker 4: what happened at the end of Raw, where like all
Speaker 4: these different people were coming out, like the USOS came
Speaker 4: out to help the Fate the the New Day, just
Speaker 4: because they're both good guys, like in the Daniel Brian
Speaker 4: and seth Rawlins match. I just don't like how, just
Speaker 4: like all these different storylines will intertwine and and people
Speaker 4: will side with each other just because ones are booked
Speaker 4: at baby Faces and the other ones are booked as heels,
Speaker 4: and that's the only explanation we get for it.
Speaker 2: I think it's just reasons. I mean, that's just reasons.
Speaker 2: I mean that you're right that there are no inexplicable
Speaker 2: rational reasons why heels and heels and faces and faces
Speaker 2: are all just we Oh, well, you're on my side
Speaker 2: of the land. Here're on my side of the train tracks.
Speaker 2: We all like you. Once you cross over, we automatically
Speaker 2: dislike you. I mean, it's not reality, that's not life,
Speaker 2: but it's the life of WWE's interpretation of professional wrestling.
Speaker 2: So now I do want to get to stomping grounds.
Speaker 2: But before I get into stomping grounds, is there anything
Speaker 2: else that maybe I didn't touch on from this week
Speaker 2: that you wanted to get to.
Speaker 4: Well, there was one little tidbit of SmackDown that happened backstage,
Speaker 4: and it was the whole Apollo Cruise on Ratty part
Speaker 4: where you know, on draw he basically got Selina Vega
Speaker 4: to goat in Apaulo Cruz and then he attacked them.
Speaker 4: And I actually liked that story, and I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, this is like a cool, fresh storyline and
Speaker 4: then it made me realize, like, you know, because of
Speaker 4: the wildcard rule, all these guys got in this week
Speaker 4: a WWE programming was a minute and a half of
Speaker 4: a backstage segment. But that's why I liked the brand split,
Speaker 4: because guys like Androtti and Apollo Cruz would get screen
Speaker 4: time and it was fresh feuds. And those are two
Speaker 4: guys that ONRAFTI much more so than Apolo Cruz, But
Speaker 4: those are two guys that are very good in the
Speaker 4: ring and I think have potential, but they're just buried
Speaker 4: because Raw and SmackDown are constantly being taken up by
Speaker 4: the same guys and the same storylines. And I just
Speaker 4: feel like, if they just let the brand split alone,
Speaker 4: these are two guys that could actually have a really
Speaker 4: good undercard feud and maybe eventually culminated an Intercontinental Championship
Speaker 4: match or Number one Contenders match. And again, like, where
Speaker 4: is Finn Baler And I think he's also a victim
Speaker 4: of this wildcard rule. So that whole segment backstage made
Speaker 4: me realize that I want to see your wrestlers, and
Speaker 4: I like a lot of the wrestlers are not using
Speaker 4: and just kind of makes me despise the wild card
Speaker 4: that much more.
Speaker 2: We keep coming back to the wild card, but a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of the source of the problem
Speaker 2: is the wild card that's been implemented, and that is
Speaker 2: a side effect, a negative side effect. Another that we
Speaker 2: can just tally up on this bandwagon of just terrible ideas,
Speaker 2: is that yes, because you are now bringing in the
Speaker 2: same predictable wrestlers into each show. Now, that takes away
Speaker 2: from the guys that would have gotten the screen time
Speaker 2: to build new stars for the guys that are already here,
Speaker 2: to just kind of run the same main storyline through
Speaker 2: and have the leftovers on SmackDown and the real the
Speaker 2: progression of the storylines un raw and then the leftovers
Speaker 2: are smacked down. It's the same thing over and over
Speaker 2: and over now since it's been implemented. And guys like Andrade, who,
Speaker 2: as you said, Andrade is so damn good in the ring.
Speaker 2: He's so damn good. Zelena Vega adds so much to
Speaker 2: his character. I love that pairing. They are so good together.
Speaker 2: Apollo Cruz, who I think inarguably may have been one
Speaker 2: of the i'd say least successful NXT call ups since
Speaker 2: NXT has been a thing, and he was actually I
Speaker 2: believe one of the first NXT call ups. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: could be that the spark for Apollo Cruz that he
Speaker 2: needs in his career going against Andrade, who could make
Speaker 2: him look really good in the ring. It was and
Speaker 2: it is a few that I want to see, but
Speaker 2: it's a blink of an eye in terms of the
Speaker 2: airtime that it's given because we got to worry about
Speaker 2: Shane McMahon and his faction or is Roman Reigns gonna
Speaker 2: come out here? I mean, it's the same thing as
Speaker 2: Seth Ronin's gonna attack somebody from behind with a chair,
Speaker 2: which I like, but again it's it's over exposing the
Speaker 2: top guys when I want to see less of them,
Speaker 2: which makes it more special to see them, and I
Speaker 2: want to see newer stars built. That's the cycle of
Speaker 2: professional wrestling, and right now we're not getting that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly because I remember days of pay per views,
Speaker 4: especially when they were Brad exclusive pay per views, where
Speaker 4: I would look forward to some of the undercard matches
Speaker 4: and I would look forward to the US title feuds
Speaker 4: and the Intercontinental Championship feuds. Like I find it kind
Speaker 4: of crazy that, Like, yes, the match was great, but
Speaker 4: the US Number One Contender Championship match of the Fatal
Speaker 4: Five Way where Ricochet ended up winning. I find it
Speaker 4: kind of insulting to that whole group of wrestlers that
Speaker 4: they were given just a week to build a feud
Speaker 4: with Samojo for a title before a pay per view event.
Speaker 4: And as I brought up several times already, but Finn
Speaker 4: Baller holding one of the most prestigious titles on the
Speaker 4: main roster is just irrelevant and we just I don't
Speaker 4: see him and there's not even a challenger for him,
Speaker 4: Like no one brings up the Intercontinental Championship, and that's
Speaker 4: after years and years and years of the Miz repeatedly
Speaker 4: saying that he was trying to elevate it and make
Speaker 4: it relevant. And again, I just think it all comes
Speaker 4: back to the Wild Carnival because they're just devoting so
Speaker 4: much time to the same three or four storylines and
Speaker 4: then recycling it and as you said, Raw gets the
Speaker 4: main advancement and then SmackDown kind of just picks up
Speaker 4: the scraps. So I just find it really a disservice
Speaker 4: to a lot of these wrestlers who are very talented
Speaker 4: that they can't get the proper airtime now, obviously Apollo Cruz, like,
Speaker 4: you know, I wish you would stop smiling. Damn it,
Speaker 4: you know, like it's kind of the same thing over
Speaker 4: and over again. But maybe if he got a somewhat
Speaker 4: relevant feud, he could become something. I think and Drowndi's
Speaker 4: one of the best up and comers they have. But
Speaker 4: how are they supposed to take that next step and
Speaker 4: advance themselves when all they get is a minute and
Speaker 4: a half of backstage airtime.
Speaker 3: In a few that we don't even really know why
Speaker 3: it's happening.
Speaker 2: You can't. The answer is you can't. You can't succeed
Speaker 2: with that little air time. I know that the old
Speaker 2: adage is maximize your minutes. Well when you don't even
Speaker 2: get minutes you get minute, you can't do it. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just not feasible, it's not realistic, and it's not
Speaker 2: fair to expect any performers to excel if they're getting
Speaker 2: that little air time. And it's unfortunate because and I
Speaker 2: understand that there are some wrestling fans out there that
Speaker 2: don't have the patience to build new stars and that
Speaker 2: they just want to see all the big names all
Speaker 2: the time. And they don't care about these people that
Speaker 2: we don't know their names, Well, why don't you learn
Speaker 2: their names? Because eventually the people that you like to
Speaker 2: see all the time, and that's all you care about.
Speaker 2: You want to see your favorite moves and your biggest stars,
Speaker 2: they will be cycled out because Father time wins all
Speaker 2: the time. You need to constantly have people up and coming.
Speaker 2: You need to have that farm system, which is why
Speaker 2: NXT is so brilliant. And credit Triple H for his
Speaker 2: vision and his execution of it, because that is the
Speaker 2: breeding ground for the stars of tomorrow. And so when
Speaker 2: you don't have that mentality on the main roster, eventually
Speaker 2: you're going to be so reliant and heavy on the
Speaker 2: top stars that you are quote top stars of Roman
Speaker 2: and Seth and Drew. Whatever what if they get injured,
Speaker 2: What if they decide to leave and their contract expires,
Speaker 2: they go to a different promotion. There are so many
Speaker 2: variables and factors that I understand. You can't get everybody
Speaker 2: hot all the time, but you certainly can add new
Speaker 2: things to their character. You can progress them in different ways.
Speaker 2: There are ways to advance characters and move them along
Speaker 2: and give everybody an equal share of the time that
Speaker 2: is allotted unsmackedown. I know SmackDown's two hours, which is
Speaker 2: why I enjoy the show more. But they need to
Speaker 2: understand that while all the big stars do indeed draw ratings,
Speaker 2: you need to also build new stars and you can't
Speaker 2: do that if the current stars are sucking up all
Speaker 2: the airtimes. So one more thing I want to get
Speaker 2: to and then I want to talk about stomping grounds
Speaker 2: and get your predictions. What are your thoughts on the
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven Championship still funds kind of corny
Speaker 2: in between, I.
Speaker 4: Think that it's done better than I would have anticipated.
Speaker 4: I'll give them that They've come up with some creative
Speaker 4: things to keep me interested, Like you know, the whole
Speaker 4: elevator scene is kind of funny. I found the whole
Speaker 4: airplane thing going to Jetta funny. How our Truth covered
Speaker 4: Jinner Mahal and then everyone chased them through the plane.
Speaker 4: I think that given my ultra low expectations for it,
Speaker 4: it's really succeeded. I think that they've timed it properly,
Speaker 4: unlike how when it originally started. I think they've kind
Speaker 4: of reduced how many times they use it on a
Speaker 4: programming show. So yeah, I think even though it started
Speaker 4: maybe a bit too much to just get the point across,
Speaker 4: I think the past month or so they've done a
Speaker 4: pretty good job with it.
Speaker 2: I'll second that. I mean, I was a lukewarm proponent
Speaker 2: of it when Mick Foley introduced it in front of
Speaker 2: my hometown crowd that gave it no reaction, So congratulations Albany.
Speaker 2: I was a proponent of it, and it was we
Speaker 2: all kind of alluded to it as the PG hardcore
Speaker 2: title because it's got the same rules, and we all
Speaker 2: kind of we all poo poo on what it looks like. You, Oh,
Speaker 2: it looks like awful. I don't need the belt to
Speaker 2: look good. I don't really care about that part of it.
Speaker 2: I don't care what the belt looks like so much
Speaker 2: because it's not a belt that's supposed to take seriously anyway.
Speaker 2: But in execution, they are certainly going wild with the
Speaker 2: creative on this, and the creative is. The upside is
Speaker 2: there is no limit to what they could do, the
Speaker 2: scenarios that could happen, and I think that it adds
Speaker 2: a little bit to that unpredictability that Vince McMahon is
Speaker 2: looking for. But at the same time, they need to
Speaker 2: be careful to not undermine their own product with such
Speaker 2: a joke of a championship, and there's that fine line,
Speaker 2: and right now I think they're teetering on it. I
Speaker 2: love Our Truth as champion. I loved the Drake Maverick
Speaker 2: interaction because Drake mav has been going all in on
Speaker 2: his character on social media, putting up wanted signs for
Speaker 2: Our Truth, just saying you know, I'm gonna find you.
Speaker 2: He bumps into him backstage a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2: They look at each other and Our Truth takes off.
Speaker 2: They have a really good chemistry right now, at very
Speaker 2: unexpected chemistry with Drake Maverick and Our Truth. And Our
Speaker 2: Truth obviously loses this week because Drake Maverick dresses up
Speaker 2: as Carmela, which was really funny, and Drake Maverick ends
Speaker 2: up tweeting out that you guys don't know how much
Speaker 2: those fake boobs cost or something like that. Like, I mean,
Speaker 2: just the hilarity of it is. It does make me chuckle.
Speaker 2: It is a nice bit of a comedy segment to
Speaker 2: cut through all of the quote serious storylines. I'm fine
Speaker 2: with it right now. I think that eventually that it
Speaker 2: will get boring and we'll all go home. My god, Okay,
Speaker 2: what are they doing this week? This is getting boring,
Speaker 2: This is stupid, This is totally unbelievable. I'm sure we'll
Speaker 2: get there. I mean, this has a shelf life. This
Speaker 2: championship does have a shelf life. But for the moment,
Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it. I love the the completely impossible scenarios
Speaker 2: that happen. Do I enjoy that our Truth is constantly
Speaker 2: being chased in it by I don't know, the same five, six, seven,
Speaker 2: eight guys that aren't having anything going on backstage, and
Speaker 2: they all just chase them in a straight line all
Speaker 2: the time, and it gets a little bit cartoonish. But
Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it for what it is right now, and
Speaker 2: I'm on board. It'll eventually, you know, wear itself out,
Speaker 2: and the expiration date will happen. But I'm fine with it.
Speaker 4: One thing about one of the wrestlers that's constantly chasing
Speaker 4: our Truth, because I think the Our Truth has been
Speaker 4: fantastic doing it. I love what Drake Maverick has done.
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed that elevator scene. I found that pretty comedic.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 4: About you, Matt, but how lost does EC three look?
Speaker 4: In every single segment? He looks like just completely low.
Speaker 3: Like in that elevator scene, I remember when everyone's.
Speaker 4: Fighting each other, he was literally being restrained by the
Speaker 4: ref but the ref wasn't even looking at him.
Speaker 3: Like it's just like it's like he couldn't get around
Speaker 3: the five foot five ref and I just he it's
Speaker 3: almost distracting that like as soon as the segment comes out,
Speaker 3: like I automatically focus on him and.
Speaker 4: He's just just so bad And I don't want to
Speaker 4: be mean, but he's just bad.
Speaker 3: And he's never even said a word.
Speaker 4: And like, okay, his segment on Raw when he got
Speaker 4: clobbered by Seth but the chair was purely funny. But
Speaker 4: aside from that, just like the twenty four to seven
Speaker 4: Championship moments, like he's so he stands out in the
Speaker 4: worst ways and I just can't understand how clumsy he is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is a tough one with EC three.
Speaker 2: As you said, with the elevator segment, yeah, I'm on
Speaker 2: board with that. It made no sense that he couldn't
Speaker 2: get past the referee. It's just preposterous. I mean, and
Speaker 2: he when he game to the main roster, I believe
Speaker 2: he was in a very very short program with Dean Ambrose.
Speaker 2: I think he lost one week and one another week.
Speaker 2: The crowd didn't react to him in any kind of
Speaker 2: significant way, and he's just all over the place in
Speaker 2: the twenty four to seven Championship trying to be a referee.
Speaker 2: They don't know what the hell to do with him.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very clear right now. They're going here, there, up, down,
Speaker 2: left and right. And what's very interesting, though, beyond this
Speaker 2: this disaster that he has so far had in WWE,
Speaker 2: is that when they were doing all of the promos
Speaker 2: for hey, we're bringing up new stars, and Lars Sullivan
Speaker 2: was one of the freaks. And obviously he's injured for
Speaker 2: the next six to nine months with a knee injury,
Speaker 2: which is I'm kind of sad about. Honestly. I think
Speaker 2: that when you have EC three as one of the
Speaker 2: stars of that promo, if you remember, it was just crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean they were talking about all these new stars
Speaker 2: that are gonna come up, boom boom, boom, and then
Speaker 2: it slowed down and was EC three walking into a
Speaker 2: room in a suit, and you were like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: They're clearly going to focus on him because he seems
Speaker 2: to be the focal point of this promo video that
Speaker 2: they aired like four hundred times leading up to all
Speaker 2: of these this change that they were implementing, and since
Speaker 2: then they've done absolutely nothing, zero less than zero with
Speaker 2: EC three. He doesn't look lost. He looks like he's
Speaker 2: in another universe right now. He looks like he's he
Speaker 2: doesn't know what to do, where to go, And I
Speaker 2: really hope that they know and figure out what to
Speaker 2: do with him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it hurts his reputation and more that
Speaker 4: there was so much hype behind him, and like, okay,
Speaker 4: his initial feud with Dean Ambers was underwhelming, but you can't.
Speaker 3: Just pour cold water on him. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3: I'm not the biggest fan of him, and I wasn't
Speaker 3: as soon as he debuted it.
Speaker 4: But like, what are you saying to the other guys
Speaker 4: coming up from an X that you build and hype
Speaker 4: up this guy so much.
Speaker 3: And so much and then he's just become such an
Speaker 3: utter joke.
Speaker 4: Like I don't know how he could ever come back
Speaker 4: from what happened to him on RAW where he got
Speaker 4: obliterated with the chair and then the New Day mocks
Speaker 4: somewhere again, like, come on, really, like he's that Like
Speaker 4: they were acting as if he was dead, Like let's
Speaker 4: be real, like I'm all about comedy, but after a
Speaker 4: certain point it just kind of becomes hokey and unrealistic.
Speaker 4: But aside from that, like that segment alone buried him.
Speaker 4: There's no way that he can ever come back from
Speaker 4: this and be a somewhat relevant wrestler or superstars, they
Speaker 4: like to say. And I just I can't understand how
Speaker 4: that early into this guy's career, especially after all of
Speaker 4: this hype behind him and you thought that they were
Speaker 4: gonna give him this big push, especially that he had
Speaker 4: that opening feud with Dean Ambrose. Obviously Ambrose was on
Speaker 4: his way out, so he wasn't held in as higher regard.
Speaker 3: But it's just how could you bury a guy so
Speaker 3: so fast and not even give him a chance to breathe?
Speaker 2: Well, they're doing it. And again, I didn't follow EC
Speaker 2: three too much before his WWE entrance, to be honest
Speaker 2: with you, like I knew a little bit about him,
Speaker 2: I didn't follow him beyond or before that too much.
Speaker 2: So if you didn't know anything about him, before you
Speaker 2: would just think that this guy's here to be used
Speaker 2: as an enhancement talent. And like you said, he's basically
Speaker 2: laying there like a corpse after a few chair shots. Really,
Speaker 2: all he did was get hit in the back. You
Speaker 2: didn't get hit in the skull. Chair shots of the
Speaker 2: skull are gone. I mean, you got knocked out from
Speaker 2: being hit in the back. Really, I mean, and then
Speaker 2: they made a reference to weekend at Bernie's and all
Speaker 2: that stuff. I mean, it was clearly just a segment
Speaker 2: to try to make people laugh or Vince McMahon, you know,
Speaker 2: sitting backstage, you know, Nie slapping and chuckling, and a
Speaker 2: lot of this humor seems to be Vince McMahon driven,
Speaker 2: and any nine times out of ten, Vince McMahon humor
Speaker 2: is not the majority of the audience's taste in humor.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's really just a shame that they're doing
Speaker 2: with him. Find something for him, do anything anything, I
Speaker 2: don't care what it is, but find something and stick
Speaker 2: with it. And right now they don't have a direction,
Speaker 2: So let's get to stomping grounds. And I want to
Speaker 2: start right at the top of the card here and
Speaker 2: not waste any time, I'm gonna go with the Universal
Speaker 2: championship of Seth Rollins and Baron Corbin. That floating guest
Speaker 2: referee is out there, I think we all know who
Speaker 2: it's going to be, so I won't steal your thunder.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on this match? Who's that special
Speaker 2: guest referee going to be?
Speaker 4: If I were to take a guess, I would have
Speaker 4: to guess Elias, But again, I'm not too sure of it.
Speaker 3: You seem more sure than me, but I was gonna
Speaker 3: guess Elias.
Speaker 4: I think that no matter who the guest referee is
Speaker 4: gonna be, I think Seth Rollins is gonna win, and
Speaker 4: I just think that Baron Corbin's have a placeholder challenger
Speaker 4: right now. I do like what they've done with Baron Korman,
Speaker 4: but just not enough to overtake Seth Rowlins for the title.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree with the outcome, so I'm gonna second
Speaker 2: that that Seth Rollins isn't gonna lose. He's on fire.
Speaker 2: Baron Corbin as champion would be a disaster, ratings disaster
Speaker 2: more than it is now. Seth has really got a
Speaker 2: lot of momentum. To use the corporate buzzword, he is
Speaker 2: on a tear and he won it WrestleMania. Again my
Speaker 2: argument that WrestleMania Championship wins need to stick and this
Speaker 2: one will. So my pick though for referee, and I'm
Speaker 2: only saying this confidently because I had heard someone suggest
Speaker 2: it and go, oh, how is this person not going
Speaker 2: to be the special guest referee? And that is one
Speaker 2: and only brock Lessner as a special guest referee, because
Speaker 2: if Baron Corbin has him as a special guest referee,
Speaker 2: then it would essentially put doom and gloom to Seth
Speaker 2: Rollins as champion. I mean, at least in the story
Speaker 2: arc of brock Lesner being this special guest referee, and
Speaker 2: if he is and then Baron Corbin, which I think
Speaker 2: he's going to lose somehow, Seth Rollins wins the match,
Speaker 2: but he'll be beaten down and worn down from the match,
Speaker 2: which would put brock Leser in a very advantageous position,
Speaker 2: which Brocklezer would want to be in if he was
Speaker 2: a special guest referee to cash in his money in
Speaker 2: the bank contract. Do I think He's going to cash in?
Speaker 2: Maybe not, but the scenario just seems to make sense
Speaker 2: that brock Lesner would be the special guest referee. What
Speaker 2: do you think about that?
Speaker 4: I think that would be great. I think it would
Speaker 4: be really cool. I didn't even think about brock Lesnar.
Speaker 4: I was just under the impression that they were going
Speaker 4: to kind of let Brock sit a bit and lurk
Speaker 4: in the weeds and aka let him have time off
Speaker 4: that we all know he loves. But no, if that's
Speaker 4: the case, I think it would be the best case scenario.
Speaker 4: It would kind of suck to have him, you know,
Speaker 4: kate the belt away from Seth because one thing I'll
Speaker 4: say about Brock is that they can have another failed
Speaker 4: cash in. So the only reason why I think they
Speaker 4: may not do that is to build up when you
Speaker 4: said it, they want set to run with the belt
Speaker 4: here have a good long title run, but they can
Speaker 4: have another failed cash into the third year in a
Speaker 4: row or also just diminish the value of the money
Speaker 4: in the bank. So I think that's a really cool concept.
Speaker 4: I'm just not sure if they would go with that
Speaker 4: and have Brock failed cash it in.
Speaker 2: Very possible. Yeah, I don't think a failed cash in
Speaker 2: by brock Leser especially would I don't. I think that
Speaker 2: would be disastrous as much as nobody really wants to
Speaker 2: see Brocklesner's champion anymore, I think the prestige and value
Speaker 2: of the money the bank briefcase is worth more at
Speaker 2: this point because Seth could come back the next night,
Speaker 2: challenge Brocks somehow and even win it back the next
Speaker 2: to not unraw. I mean it's very possible so that
Speaker 2: you know, Brockleazer could cash in, and maybe he does,
Speaker 2: and maybe we just say, okay, good, Brock doesn't have
Speaker 2: a championship, he doesn't have money in the bank, go
Speaker 2: away for a little while, and we keep thinking Brock's
Speaker 2: just going to kind of go away. And every time
Speaker 2: we think he's gonna go away and sit on his
Speaker 2: farm in Minnesota, he ends up showing up out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: And I like that to a point because it's not predictable.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, brock Lesnar needs something in
Speaker 2: his character as well. It's just kind of the same
Speaker 2: old Brock. He's Brock freaking Lesnar. I mean, think about
Speaker 2: who he is. He doesn't need to pick people apart
Speaker 2: at their weakest moment. He is the guy that was
Speaker 2: the UFC champion and came in and dominated the sport.
Speaker 2: He's the guy that came in and demolished the WWE stars,
Speaker 2: the wrestlers. Think about who he's beaten. He's beaten Goldberg,
Speaker 2: he's beaten Big Show, He's beaten the rock Like, you
Speaker 2: don't need to have Brock Lesnar playing this heel character
Speaker 2: as this guy that, oh, I'm only gonna I'm only
Speaker 2: gonna cash in when you're at your weakest. Brock doesn't
Speaker 2: need to be that. And I know he's a heel,
Speaker 2: but that's not Brock. I need Brock to be Brock,
Speaker 2: and Brock hasn't felt like himself for quite some time now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's why I like, I found and get
Speaker 4: kind of weird that he like planned his cash in
Speaker 4: after the Super.
Speaker 3: Showdown, which I know how you felt about that show
Speaker 3: because I listened to your rant about it.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think that a scenario of Brock being
Speaker 4: the ref and then cashing in on vulnerable sent rollins,
Speaker 4: I don't think that would be too good for his character.
Speaker 4: I think, as you mentioned, they should get brought back
Speaker 4: on the whole train of doing everything face to face,
Speaker 4: beating the hell out of the guy's face to face.
Speaker 3: He doesn't need any advantages.
Speaker 4: That's why I did find it a bit weird that
Speaker 4: they put the money in the bank on him so quickly,
Speaker 4: but look look at the braun Strowman how he did
Speaker 4: it last year. Obviously it was a failed cash in,
Speaker 4: but in a similar aspect, he wanted to face Roman
Speaker 4: face to face. So I think Brock will eventually do that.
Speaker 4: But I'm kind of expecting something more down the line
Speaker 4: towards SummerSlam a bit, because as of right now, I
Speaker 4: think people are still like on their heels for Brock
Speaker 4: to come back, because we had what three four weeks
Speaker 4: of Brock consistently being on coalition for a bit. So
Speaker 4: I think now they want to let people kind of
Speaker 4: forget about Brock a little bit and then finally come
Speaker 4: in and actually surprise people when he does show up.
Speaker 2: Very possible. I mean, that was just a logical choice
Speaker 2: that I was like, oh, because I didn't think of
Speaker 2: it either, And I'm like, how did I not think
Speaker 2: of that? But it would make sense for him to
Speaker 2: commit as a special guest referee. I'm fine with a
Speaker 2: long periods of time without seeing brock Lesner, at least
Speaker 2: in his current incantation. I want to see a different
Speaker 2: brock Lesner. Maybe one that even if he cuts his
Speaker 2: own promos or whatever, they're just short, sweet, to the point,
Speaker 2: because that's where brock Lesner lives and thrives. He's never
Speaker 2: been a good long promo guy. That's why Paul Haym
Speaker 2: is with him and is a perfect mouthpiece for him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I would also like to see somebody get an
Speaker 2: advantage on brock Lesner or face him face to face
Speaker 2: and get an advantage without having to kick him in
Speaker 2: the nuts. Like the only way that seth Rollins has
Speaker 2: been able to get an advantage is by kicking him
Speaker 2: between the legs. That has been the only way as
Speaker 2: a babyface. I'm just like, come on, even the Undertaker
Speaker 2: did it when he faced brock Lesner a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago. I don't want that. I want to see
Speaker 2: a babyface be able to go on, like you know,
Speaker 2: Manda Man, toe to toe and be able to find
Speaker 2: a way to get an advantage on Brock without having
Speaker 2: to resort to that. And it's just it diminishes the
Speaker 2: babyface's credibility every time I see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's just it shows just how
Speaker 4: much stock Convince is put into brock Lesner and that
Speaker 4: he wants to build Brock as like this bigger than
Speaker 4: life character that even the best of the best wrestlers
Speaker 4: need to cheat to beat him. But you're right, it
Speaker 4: takes away from the whole baby face because yes, Seth
Speaker 4: climb that mountain and finally beat Brock on the grandest
Speaker 4: stage of them all, but like, at what cost did he.
Speaker 3: Have to do that? So yeah, I would like to
Speaker 3: see someone be Brock clean.
Speaker 4: Well, obviously we know Triple H did it and Goldberg
Speaker 4: did it, but like, it doesn't always have to be
Speaker 4: the select few that Vin chooses, and as we brought
Speaker 4: up before, like he always relies on like the established legends,
Speaker 4: but like, let Seth beat him clean as Roman did,
Speaker 4: because it always kind of leaves that Asterix beside him
Speaker 4: or that that stain on him. And even now, you know,
Speaker 4: like Seth beat the holy hell out of him at
Speaker 4: Super Showdout, but you did it with a low blow
Speaker 4: and twenty four times you hit him with a chair.
Speaker 4: So again, like it's cool to see him get the
Speaker 4: better of Brock because it shows that he's smart and
Speaker 4: he'll do anything, but it takes to win the title
Speaker 4: and take Rock down, which I could kind of get behind,
Speaker 4: but again, it would be nice to actually see him
Speaker 4: be able to be brought clean and true baby faced fashion.
Speaker 2: So I think we're both on board with Seth retains
Speaker 2: as long as Brock doesn't cash in.
Speaker 3: Yes, all right.
Speaker 2: So with that said, moving on to the other big
Speaker 2: championship match, Kobe Kingston against Dolf Ziggler in a steel cage.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take a breath and a pause. What are
Speaker 2: your thoughts.
Speaker 4: I think Kofe's gonna win. I think Kofe's gonna win clean.
Speaker 4: Because obviously Xavier got involved in the match at Super Showdown,
Speaker 4: which I liked because it allowed for the storyline to
Speaker 4: advance a bit and set up a rematch.
Speaker 3: I think it's probably going to be the match of
Speaker 3: the night.
Speaker 4: These two guys inside the steel cage is gonna be something.
Speaker 3: To be seen.
Speaker 4: But I think that eventually KOFE will come out on top.
Speaker 4: He's gonna win, and then they'll finally close the book
Speaker 4: on this storyline and move on to bigger and better things.
Speaker 4: But I will add one tidbit that I do think
Speaker 4: that when Brock does cash it, it will be on
Speaker 4: KOFE and not Seth.
Speaker 3: Hm.
Speaker 2: I was thinking the same thing. Really Yeah, well, I
Speaker 2: don't know if it'll happen on Sunday night, but people
Speaker 2: keep thinking it's definitely gonna be set, It's gonna be set,
Speaker 2: It's gonna be Seth, and you're not even thinking about Kofe.
Speaker 2: And I think it very well could be. And think
Speaker 2: about the heat that that would put on Brock Lesen
Speaker 2: to beat Kofe Kingston. That feel good story comes crashing
Speaker 2: down to a guy that is going to hold that
Speaker 2: the WWE Championship, which has a hell of a lot
Speaker 2: more prestige in the Universal Championship does in lineage and
Speaker 2: hold that championship hostage for months or maybe even years
Speaker 2: at a time. I wouldn't put it pat pass Vince
Speaker 2: McMahon to do that. And it could very easily happen
Speaker 2: because we've seen Brock and we've seen Seth a couple
Speaker 2: of times, and now it's time for maybe a new
Speaker 2: opponent and when the guy we're not thinking of as
Speaker 2: Kobee Kingston. But to the match on Sunday, assuming again
Speaker 2: Brock doesn't cash in on Koffee, is I'm looking forward
Speaker 2: to this match. You hit it on the head. This
Speaker 2: could easily be and should be, on paper, the best
Speaker 2: match of the night if given enough time. Both of
Speaker 2: them are very similar styles, they both sell well. They
Speaker 2: do have a lot of parallels which do alluded to,
Speaker 2: and they do. They are both very good in the
Speaker 2: ring and if given enough time, this could be a classic.
Speaker 2: And so my prediction is Koffee wins hands down, goes away.
Speaker 2: And so let's get that out of the way. The
Speaker 2: only thing, the only tidbit I have and an issue
Speaker 2: I have, is just the premise of a steel cage
Speaker 2: match itself. And I went off a little bit on
Speaker 2: this last night. I don't understand that why and how
Speaker 2: escaping a cage or walking through a door is a
Speaker 2: legal way of winning a match. Basically, whoever can run
Speaker 2: away from their opponent the fastest or the best wins
Speaker 2: the match. And think about this. All you have to do,
Speaker 2: if you're a super athlete is you could throw somebody
Speaker 2: in the other side of the ring and if you
Speaker 2: really wanted to, you could climb over the cage in
Speaker 2: the blink of an eye. And think about I mean,
Speaker 2: think about all these athletic crazy things that they do,
Speaker 2: but they just somehow can't get up that cage in
Speaker 2: time and draw it out. I don't like the fact
Speaker 2: that you can open a door and walk out and win.
Speaker 2: In what world is that a legal way of winning
Speaker 2: any sports sports situation, whether I don't care what sport
Speaker 2: you're talking about, in you know, whether it's a competitive sport,
Speaker 2: professional wrestling, it just doesn't make sense. And the fact
Speaker 2: that supposed to believe that a steel cage always keeps
Speaker 2: out interference, there's nobody gonna be able to help you.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna have any help, it's just you and me. Well,
Speaker 2: the last time I checked, a steel cage match is
Speaker 2: a no disqualification match, which means the world could come
Speaker 2: in that match, the entire locker room could come in
Speaker 2: that match, and it would still be legal. So it
Speaker 2: just every time I hear that and hear those two arguments,
Speaker 2: it's it just hurts my brain. It should be pinfall
Speaker 2: or submission only inside of a steel cage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I've always personally hated the walk through
Speaker 4: your door, the walk through your doorway to victory because
Speaker 4: you're right, like, anyone if they try hard enough, could
Speaker 4: scratch and claw their way out of there or weasel
Speaker 4: their way out. And I don't think I've ever seen
Speaker 4: someone actually win by going out of the door.
Speaker 3: I don't so much mind the over the top of the.
Speaker 4: Cage thing, because at least that proves an obstacle, like
Speaker 4: you have to actually climb the damn thing and go
Speaker 4: over it before the guy can come up and stop you.
Speaker 3: But yeah, the whole.
Speaker 4: Like argument of like oh yeah, like there's gonna be
Speaker 4: no more interferences.
Speaker 3: Side like oh come on.
Speaker 4: You know, one of the most iconic steel cage matches,
Speaker 4: well maybe not iconic, but one that sticks out of
Speaker 4: my mind is the one that the Rock and Stone
Speaker 4: Cold ad after wrestling its seventeen when Vincent Triple Ah
Speaker 4: got in the cage and they just beat the holy
Speaker 4: hell out of the Rock and formed the two man
Speaker 4: power trip. And I'm just like, okay, well, what the
Speaker 4: hell was the plying of that they just basically trapped
Speaker 4: the Rock inside and destroyed them. But yeah, I've hated
Speaker 4: that whole narrative and it's gone on for as long
Speaker 4: as I could remember about like oh, well, no one's
Speaker 4: gonna get in now, it's just you and me. Then
Speaker 4: maybe I've just become accustomed to it, and I don't
Speaker 4: really you know, react to it the same way anymore.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm with either the whole notion of being
Speaker 4: able to walk out of the door and win, or
Speaker 4: that we're supposed to believe that no one's gonna.
Speaker 3: Get inside like and I think.
Speaker 4: What makes it worse is that we all know that
Speaker 4: when and it's actually a match where no one's getting inside,
Speaker 4: it's the hell in the cell. And I think that
Speaker 4: makes it a bit more or less believable for us,
Speaker 4: because WWE has an exact other match that does that
Speaker 4: exact purpose that the steel Cage match pretends to do.
Speaker 2: Yep, they do, they do. But as much as I
Speaker 2: would love to make the Helenacell a prestigious match and
Speaker 2: make it only for extremely deserving heated rivalries, that you know,
Speaker 2: you've gone from a standard wrestling match, maybe into a
Speaker 2: street fight, then you go to the steel cage and
Speaker 2: the blowoff is a hell in a cell. I mean,
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to happen like that all the time,
Speaker 2: but that to me would be how a natural progression
Speaker 2: of a heated blood feud would end, and that the
Speaker 2: Helen of Cel would be the blowoff of that feud,
Speaker 2: and the Helen of Cel pay per view unfortunately dissolves
Speaker 2: all of the mistique of the Hell in a Cell
Speaker 2: because it's built into the pay per view schedule, so we're,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever feuds happened to be going on at
Speaker 2: that time, well, just to in the cell because it's
Speaker 2: a cute gimmick and it's killed the Hell in a Cell.
Speaker 2: To me, the hell in a Cell is such a sacred,
Speaker 2: special place that so many amazing matches have happened, so
Speaker 2: many amazing moments, from the very first one with Shawn
Speaker 2: Michaels an Undertaker, which was the very first program that
Speaker 2: I remember watching, and it just that drew me in,
Speaker 2: like I was hooked forever because of that program, all
Speaker 2: the way obviously mcfoley's fall off the cage to Cactus
Speaker 2: Jack retiring at the hands of Triple H and I
Speaker 2: believe it was two thousand when he pedigreed him on
Speaker 2: top of the cell to the Armageddon pay per view
Speaker 2: and a Rakishi got choke slammed off of it into
Speaker 2: like a bunch of wood chips. I mean, there's so
Speaker 2: many things that happened inside the cell that are special
Speaker 2: that when you put it into a pay per view schedule,
Speaker 2: completely kills the mystique of it. But I'm getting way
Speaker 2: off track. But you're right, they have a structure that
Speaker 2: could do exactly what they're telling us could do. There's
Speaker 2: no roof on the cell, on the cage, it's just
Speaker 2: a it's not even a cage by definition, has a roof.
Speaker 2: This is like a four walled you know. I don't
Speaker 2: know what you'd call it. It's not true a true cage.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they are making us supposed to believe that
Speaker 2: nobody can get interfere. But even in Hell and a Cell,
Speaker 2: you've seen people hide under the ring up until the
Speaker 2: point when they're supposed to come out. I mean, you've
Speaker 2: seen wacky things happen, but less so. But back to
Speaker 2: this match, I'm really looking forward to it. I think
Speaker 2: they could blow the roof off the place, and I'm
Speaker 2: expecting a lot of high spots, a ton of near falls,
Speaker 2: a zigzag off the top. I'm expecting some crazy crap
Speaker 2: because these two are capable of it, and I expect
Speaker 2: Kofe to come out on top in the end. So
Speaker 2: Roman reigns and Drew McIntyre, I am just I'm a
Speaker 2: little bit torn on this. I don't think this one's
Speaker 2: as easy as most people think. And the reason is
Speaker 2: Drew McIntyre has been groomed over the past couple of
Speaker 2: months to be a top guy. Yet Roman Reigns is
Speaker 2: the elder statesman of Vince McMahon being the top guy.
Speaker 2: Roman he's the big, he's the he's the gatekeeper to being,
Speaker 2: you know, the top guy. But we saw them face
Speaker 2: at WrestleMania, which we're all supposed to forget. This time around,
Speaker 2: I think the program has been built much better, much
Speaker 2: more properly. I'm much more invested in this program than
Speaker 2: it wasn't WrestleMania, which kind of felt like a last
Speaker 2: minute We'll throw these two big guys together and they'll
Speaker 2: have a match. Roman came out on top of that match.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be so sure that Roman comes out on
Speaker 2: top of this match as revenge. I think since this
Speaker 2: is the first time that they're officially meeting. And I
Speaker 2: say that in air quotes, I say, Drew McIntyre wins this,
Speaker 2: and I say that because I think Drew needs to
Speaker 2: win more than Roman does.
Speaker 3: What do you think, I'm with you. I think Drew's
Speaker 3: gonna win this.
Speaker 4: I think that they're fully behind building this stable with
Speaker 4: Shane and Drew and the Revival. But I think, like
Speaker 4: you said, I think Drew needs to win more. He
Speaker 4: hasn't really had a big time pay per view victory
Speaker 4: in a while now, and he's and I think they
Speaker 4: want him to be established as an actual threat, not
Speaker 4: just a lackey or just the right hand man of Shane,
Speaker 4: a man. They want him to be his own guy
Speaker 4: and be able to fight Roman reigns on his own
Speaker 4: and be able to take him out. Now, in saying that,
Speaker 4: I don't think he's gonna win clean. I think there
Speaker 4: will be outside of the ring shenanigans from obviously Shane,
Speaker 4: maybe the Revival, maybe Elias or what have you.
Speaker 3: But I think when it all comes, when it.
Speaker 4: All finishes, it will be Drew McIntyre coming on top
Speaker 4: and in some way, shape or fashion. I feel like
Speaker 4: this is all gonna culminate at SummerSlam. But you know,
Speaker 4: Shane gets that win against Roman at Super Showdown. I
Speaker 4: think they're gonna make Roman lose again here due to
Speaker 4: outside interference and just keep Roman's frustrations building and boiling
Speaker 4: and culminate down the line. But as for this match
Speaker 4: on Sunday, I think Drew comes out with the win
Speaker 4: and get some more momentum behind them.
Speaker 2: They have to. It's almost as if Drew has to
Speaker 2: win this because of everything that they've put in front
Speaker 2: of him and everything he's talked about and said, he
Speaker 2: has to back up his words. I don't care if
Speaker 2: it's a clean win over Roman Reigns. And you know what,
Speaker 2: I would actually prefer a clean win. I know he's
Speaker 2: a heel, and heels traditionally win by hooker, crook low
Speaker 2: blows feet on the ropes, refezent looking for an object.
Speaker 2: I want to see Drew outright beat Roman Reigns with
Speaker 2: the Claymore, which has been established as a killer move,
Speaker 2: and it looks like Drew McIntyre is. It looks like
Speaker 2: a shotgun going off. I mean, it's it's sold really well,
Speaker 2: nobody's kicked out of it. It's a money finisher, and
Speaker 2: I would like to see Drew McIntyre outright beat Roman Reigns.
Speaker 2: I would that, to me, would be the most beneficial
Speaker 2: to Drew. It would establish him as a credible threat,
Speaker 2: not just a guy that uses any means necessary. All
Speaker 2: heels don't have to do that. You could be a
Speaker 2: guy that beats your opponent clean as a heel. But
Speaker 2: you're what you stand for is is demonic, It's it's
Speaker 2: just nasty. Who you are as a person is terrible,
Speaker 2: even if you're winning matches clean. And I think Drew
Speaker 2: could do this because it would What it'll do is, yes,
Speaker 2: it'll get him over as a heel, as a credible heel.
Speaker 2: But when he turns babyface, eventually the fans will remember
Speaker 2: that that he was this guy that just came out
Speaker 2: and kicked ass and now when he flips, you're gonna
Speaker 2: remember that. So of course that's down the line. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't I wouldn't want him to turn babyface for a
Speaker 2: year or two. But I think that Drew needs to win,
Speaker 2: and he needs to win clean and decisively.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And because like I think what you said about
Speaker 4: imentering babyface one day is perfect. I think that they
Speaker 4: need to give the fans something to kate Drew McIntyre seriously,
Speaker 4: because yeah, he's talked a big game and he's been
Speaker 4: a lot of wrestlers on side matches, but like there's
Speaker 4: yet to be that one big time feud that he's
Speaker 4: really culminated in with a victory. Because he didn't beat
Speaker 4: Roman at rest sure he had his way with Dean Ambrews,
Speaker 4: but we know that Dean Ambrose was just doing the
Speaker 4: favors going out the door. But yeah, I think that
Speaker 4: for the long term vision of Drew that he really
Speaker 4: needs this win. They've done a great job billing.
Speaker 3: Up to now.
Speaker 4: I really like what he's like his partnership with Sean McMahon.
Speaker 4: But I do kind of fear that, like, if he
Speaker 4: doesn't get this win, he'll just be viewed as an
Speaker 4: afterthought because it would look kind of straighte like, Okay,
Speaker 4: well Shane could beat Roman, but Drew can't, So yeah,
Speaker 4: it would hurt his reputation. I think that Roman could
Speaker 4: survive it because you know, Roman could just bounce back
Speaker 4: from anything due to the writing and how w W
Speaker 4: has built him, you know, come back.
Speaker 3: It's survive and lost to Drew McIntyre.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I really think this is a crucial mat
Speaker 4: Drew and he really needs this victory to build himself
Speaker 4: in the future.
Speaker 2: Roman is elastic. I think that's a good point to
Speaker 2: bring up. Roman can survive, and he can survive a
Speaker 2: big string of losses because Roman has been established for
Speaker 2: so long in the minds of fans that He is
Speaker 2: a top guy, and at any moment, regardless of how
Speaker 2: terrible of a losing streak he goes on who he
Speaker 2: loses to, he could come back at any moment with
Speaker 2: fire in his eyes and just start as wait, let
Speaker 2: me say the tagline, start kicking ass and taking names.
Speaker 2: He could do that. I mean, don't don't even get
Speaker 2: me started on that forced nonsensical, corporate corporately forced into
Speaker 2: every promo garbage. So that's what I think about that.
Speaker 2: It's it's awful, But Roman could do that. Roman could
Speaker 2: easily come back regardless of the losing streak, which is
Speaker 2: why Drew needs this tenfold over Roman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exactly it. Man.
Speaker 4: You hit it on the head there, because Roman just
Speaker 4: keeping knocked down and he will get up and he
Speaker 4: always will, and like even just like the whole real
Speaker 4: life battle he had with leukemia, that he no matter
Speaker 4: how many times he gets knocked down, he will be
Speaker 4: built back up.
Speaker 3: But Drew needs it.
Speaker 4: And I think Drew needs to kind of get the
Speaker 4: jackpack put on him and blown away here in the trajectory.
Speaker 3: Of you know, succeeding.
Speaker 4: And I think they're kind of doing that with with
Speaker 4: Sea McMahon right now, but he also has to find
Speaker 4: some you know, solo success at the same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. So let's move on
Speaker 2: to the Raw Women's Championship, the Becky Lynch versus Lacy Evans.
Speaker 2: We alluded to this a little bit before, so I
Speaker 2: honestly don't have a whole lot to add to this
Speaker 2: other than I think that this will be a better
Speaker 2: match than their first, which I didn't think was a disaster.
Speaker 2: But it's their second match. They should get to get
Speaker 2: a feel for each other more. They probably will get
Speaker 2: a little bit more time. I think Becky wins, and
Speaker 2: I think that's the end of the story. I honestly
Speaker 2: don't have a whole lot to add to this. I
Speaker 2: think just as Dolf will go into the background, I
Speaker 2: think Lacy Evans will fade into the background into another
Speaker 2: program after Becky Lynch beats her here. So what are
Speaker 2: your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, as I said before, I'm a big
Speaker 4: fan of Lacy Evans, but she's not ready yet to
Speaker 4: overtake someone like Becky Lynch. I think Becky's gonna win
Speaker 4: clean and kind of close the book on the story
Speaker 4: for this particular fear. But yeah, we kind of said
Speaker 4: all we had to say before. There's not too much
Speaker 4: to add. Becky wins clean and just closes it off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean case closed. Really Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 2: it's very straightforward here, I believe. So all right, what
Speaker 2: about the SmackDown Women's Championship Bailey and alexas a little
Speaker 2: more interesting, so you know, you go ahead, What do
Speaker 2: you think?
Speaker 4: I like this story a lot, so I don't think
Speaker 4: it's gonna be as cut and dry. I think that
Speaker 4: it's gonna end kind of in a disqualification of sorts.
Speaker 3: I think that it's going to I think I would
Speaker 3: say I'm not sure who will win.
Speaker 4: I will say Alexa wins via disqualification and warns a
Speaker 4: future title match, because I don't think that alex is
Speaker 4: gonna take the belt away from Bailey so soon after
Speaker 4: she won it and for the women the next pay
Speaker 4: per view after she wanted, because they compete at Super Showdown.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think it's gonna end in disqualification match
Speaker 4: due to Niki Cross getting not a disqualification match, but
Speaker 4: disqualification finished due to Nicki Cross somehow getting involved, so
Speaker 4: no clean finish and just something to result in a
Speaker 4: future match down the line, to keep this story going.
Speaker 3: As we both mentioned, we both really like this story.
Speaker 4: I don't think they're quite ready to close it off completely,
Speaker 4: So I would say Alexa wins disqualification, but Bailey keeps
Speaker 4: the title.
Speaker 2: Man, I feel like I'm just gonna repeat what you said.
Speaker 2: It's the only thing I would change on that is.
Speaker 2: I think it easily and probably will be a disqualification.
Speaker 2: But Bailey wins via disqualification after Nicky, you know it,
Speaker 2: unintentionally gets caught by the referee hitting her in the
Speaker 2: head or you know, kicking her or pulling her off
Speaker 2: the apron or something. Something will cause a disqualification. I
Speaker 2: don't care who wins the disqualification because either way, the
Speaker 2: championship doesn't change hands. But yes, I think that is
Speaker 2: the case. This is the start of the program. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is their first match. It can't be a clean
Speaker 2: finish either way. I believe that it is going to
Speaker 2: be a three maybe longer pay per view match, or
Speaker 2: a pay per view long feud. This could actually go
Speaker 2: all the way to Summer Slam. I really believe that
Speaker 2: if this is done correctly and we have no more Bailey,
Speaker 2: this is your Life segments. This could be a program
Speaker 2: that does culminate at SummerSlam. So yeah, this is going
Speaker 2: to be a finish that has nothing clean about it.
Speaker 2: There's going to be a lot of tomfoolery in this finish,
Speaker 2: and you know that's just ww logic. I mean, there's
Speaker 2: other ways to do it, but just based on how
Speaker 2: WWE presents their programs, especially at the beginning of programs, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that's really the only way that this program
Speaker 2: can start off as via disqualification or some kind of
Speaker 2: some kind of funky ending.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because
Speaker 4: if you have a I don't think it'd be wise
Speaker 4: to the belt off of Bailey this way. And if
Speaker 4: Bailey wins, the story's pretty much done. So I think
Speaker 4: that if she wins clean that is, then the story's
Speaker 4: pretty much done. So yeah, I think in some way
Speaker 4: there's gonna be some nonsense that goes on outside something
Speaker 4: to keep the storyline going. And Warrant selects a Bliss
Speaker 4: to have another match, and I think that's good, as
Speaker 4: I just said, because these two clearly do have chemistry
Speaker 4: outside the ring.
Speaker 3: They will have chemistry inside the ring.
Speaker 4: They are two very good in ring competitors, and I
Speaker 4: think the whole wrinkle of the effect of Nikki Cross
Speaker 4: has led to a way more complex story than we've
Speaker 4: just been presented on the surface.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is we've kind of said it all. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the beginning of a program. So okay, the
Speaker 2: United States Championship, Samoa Joe and Ricochet. I'm gonna toss
Speaker 2: it to you first in this.
Speaker 4: I think samo Joe wins here. I'm hoping, as you
Speaker 4: brought up for that, it's a start of a long run.
Speaker 4: I think Rikochhet won that fatal five way match to
Speaker 4: take the first loss to Samoojo. I don't think Rikoshet
Speaker 4: is gonna beat Samojo at Stomping Grounds to win his
Speaker 4: first title. I just don't think the stars are aligned
Speaker 4: for that. I think that it will be a very
Speaker 4: good match. I'm looking forward to it, but I just
Speaker 4: don't see how Rikoshet comes out.
Speaker 3: I think it's a good.
Speaker 4: First step to first step rather to get Rikochet's feet
Speaker 4: wet a bit in the title scene and his first
Speaker 4: kick at the can of the title. But no, there's
Speaker 4: no way that he can come out here with a victory.
Speaker 3: I think Joe wins.
Speaker 2: So my brain is telling me, don't pick Rikoshet. This
Speaker 2: is a very easy pick. It's a slam dunk. The
Speaker 2: problem is everything that we just talked about a little
Speaker 2: while ago about Samojo and the way that WWE treats him.
Speaker 2: I could see Ricochet winning this, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: pick him for that reason that WWA has not only
Speaker 2: devalued Samoa Joe to this point, but also they don't
Speaker 2: seem to really care about the United States Championship itself.
Speaker 2: So by Ricochet winning it, it's not the most prestigious.
Speaker 2: It's not in in line with or or at the
Speaker 2: same level as even the Intercontinental Championship. Even it's if
Speaker 2: it's presented to be. It's not so for Rick Ischet
Speaker 2: to win this, I think would be I think the
Speaker 2: fans will go nuts. They the fans are behind him
Speaker 2: because he does really crazy, wacky moves, even though we
Speaker 2: haven't heard a word from him yet. He is exciting,
Speaker 2: he's fun to watch all of that, which is true.
Speaker 2: So I think Samoa Joe loses here. I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: bet any money on it at all. Then this is
Speaker 2: probably a dumb pick, But I'm gonna go there's always
Speaker 2: that one or two, those one or two matches that
Speaker 2: you think are locks that Vince ends up in going out. No,
Speaker 2: they think this is gonna happen. This looks too predictable.
Speaker 2: We're gonna We're gonna change it up, and this could
Speaker 2: be that one, This could be that one. That is
Speaker 2: that that's sleeping giant. So I'm gonna go with Rickochet
Speaker 2: winning the United States Championship here to shake things up.
Speaker 2: As Vince McMahon would say, I'm just trying to get
Speaker 2: in that man's brain. And I think that Rikoshet could
Speaker 2: win this and try to bring some life back to
Speaker 2: the United States Championship. And do I want that to happen.
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Do I think that should happen. No, But I could
Speaker 2: see a case of Vince McMahon wanting it to happen.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean all the points you just outlined,
Speaker 5: it could very well happen.
Speaker 4: Like I would have never thought in a million years
Speaker 4: that being Mysteria would have beat Samojo for the US title.
Speaker 4: And just the way that Simojo has been treated as
Speaker 4: all the points you just brought out, it's completely realistic,
Speaker 4: and I have to keep bringing myself back down to
Speaker 4: earth about the US title because you're right, it's not
Speaker 4: that prestigious anymore. They don't seem to care about it.
Speaker 4: It is kind of an afterthought. So even if rik
Speaker 4: A were to win, it's really not a big deal
Speaker 4: and that would kind of stuck for Rik Koshet, like
Speaker 4: his first title win is supposed to be this big
Speaker 4: monumental achievement, but it's the US title who don't really
Speaker 4: cares about. But no, yeah, I think that he could
Speaker 4: go either way. Just based on McMahon wine to swerve US.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's a bad pick at all on
Speaker 4: your part.
Speaker 2: And think about the way Simo Joe quote won the
Speaker 2: United States Championship. He inexplicably had his long time he
Speaker 2: did rival just handed to him. So that tells you
Speaker 2: what Vince McMahon thinks about the United States Championship. So
Speaker 2: this could Now I'm kind of like talking myself into it,
Speaker 2: but I really believe Ricochet could win this. So that's
Speaker 2: my pick. SmackDown Tag Team Championships with Daniel Bryan and
Speaker 2: rowing against Heavy Machinery. I think this one is a
Speaker 2: pretty darn good lock and I don't think anybody's gonna
Speaker 2: be surprised by this that Daniel Brian and Rowan retain,
Speaker 2: and my god, they should retain. Is. I enjoy Heavy Machinery.
Speaker 2: I enjoy Otis and Tucker, especially Otis, who he's clearly
Speaker 2: the star out of the two. They're funny, but they're
Speaker 2: also serious when they need to be, and they're legitimate,
Speaker 2: so they're not just a comedy act only. But they're
Speaker 2: not ready, just as Ricochet. It doesn't seem ready this one. Really,
Speaker 2: they are really not ready, and Daniel Brian and Rowan
Speaker 2: are on a roll as the Tag Team Champion champions
Speaker 2: on SmackDown Live, and they're bringing credibility back to the
Speaker 2: tag team division. They're clearly the top team. There's just
Speaker 2: no reason to have Heavy Machinery win this match. Daniel
Speaker 2: Brian and Rowan walk away as champions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you there, I love Heavy Machinery.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna just sound like a Maco and You here,
Speaker 4: but yeah, they're just not ready, especially in a SmackDown
Speaker 4: world that the tag team division isn't especially deep. I
Speaker 4: think Rowan and Daniel Bryan are single handedly carrying it
Speaker 4: and making those titles relevant just because of the star
Speaker 4: power attached to Daniel Brian. And give give Rome for
Speaker 4: addit like you brought up before, He's done a really
Speaker 4: good job. But yeah, there's just no logical scenario how
Speaker 4: Heavy Machinery comes out with a win. I think it's
Speaker 4: gonna be a good match. I think it's gonna be
Speaker 4: an entertaining match. I hope then it's not the last
Speaker 4: match these two teams have. But yeah, I think Rowing
Speaker 4: and Daniel Bryan come away with.
Speaker 3: A win here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really have nothing more to add to this.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it'll be an entertaining match. I
Speaker 2: think it'll be you know, physical, It'll be just a
Speaker 2: very I think smooth logical ends with even if it's
Speaker 2: by hook or crook, Daniel Brian just does something underhanded.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm fine with it. I I don't care
Speaker 2: how Daniel Bryan and Rowan retained. They just need to retain.
Speaker 2: Just end of subject. Uh, New Day and Kevin new
Speaker 2: Day versus Kevin Owens and Sammy Zay. Your thoughts, you know.
Speaker 4: I wish that it was a harder pick that honestly,
Speaker 4: but as we've seen Kevin Owens and Sammy zaem being
Speaker 4: utilized lately. I'm gonna go with the New Day because
Speaker 4: just like how much how buried Zane.
Speaker 3: And Owens have been.
Speaker 4: But I could see Kevin Owens and say Za play
Speaker 4: the swerve here beating the New Day. But I just
Speaker 4: feel like the New Day has taken such a bat
Speaker 4: And by New Day I mean obviously Biggie and Koha
Speaker 4: and Xavier Woods. I feel like they've taken such a
Speaker 4: back seat to Kofe's title reign that they've almost been
Speaker 4: an afterthought and they they need this win. But then
Speaker 4: you could also say, on the other hand, that Kevin
Speaker 4: Owens and Sammy z need to win.
Speaker 3: But I think when all of a said and done,
Speaker 3: that the New Days go with the win.
Speaker 4: Here, just solely based on how Zane and Owens have
Speaker 4: been voked recently.
Speaker 2: You're You're right. I just I'm trying to talk myself
Speaker 2: into Kevin Owens and Samuse and winning. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: come up with a reason and trying to convince myself
Speaker 2: to pick them. I just can't. I can't pick them
Speaker 2: for the fact that they haven't won a match since
Speaker 2: they came back. And yeah that Vince McMahon could this
Speaker 2: could be another one of the swerves that all people
Speaker 2: think that New Days just gonna win and Kevin and
Speaker 2: Samy are gonna lose because they've continue to lose. I
Speaker 2: don't think this is a swerve because there's no reason
Speaker 2: to do the swerve in this case, there's no championship
Speaker 2: on the line. Clearly, Vince does not think very highly
Speaker 2: of either Kevin or Sammy as long term single stars
Speaker 2: in WWE. So I think New Day wins and Xavier
Speaker 2: and Biggie come out on top. Will I be absolutely
Speaker 2: stunned if Kevin and Sammy win. No, I won't because
Speaker 2: they honestly need the wins more than anybody on the roster.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, look at the track record
Speaker 2: they do. Their track record is awful. It's it's abysmal.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go with the New Day and it's sad,
Speaker 2: but that's my pick.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it feels like we're both kind of getting
Speaker 4: depressed here. But yeah, you want it to be more
Speaker 4: of like a hard pick. You want to have trouble
Speaker 4: pick if this pick, But it also it isn't a
Speaker 4: hard pick because you just know that Kevin Owens and
Speaker 4: Semizan are and Tken seriously.
Speaker 3: In the eyes of Fence McMahon and I just it's
Speaker 3: really sad to see. But yeah, there's just no way
Speaker 3: that I could see them coming out with a win here.
Speaker 2: I can't. I really want to. I'm trying. I'm in
Speaker 2: I do I sound depressed because I am, because I
Speaker 2: can't believe that I'm not having a hard time with this.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to come up with something in my brain,
Speaker 2: but it's very depressing. So moving on Raw Tag Team Championship,
Speaker 2: A Revival versus the USSOS, I think this one's another one.
Speaker 2: This card up and down the line looks very predictable,
Speaker 2: and it looks like you can make a case of
Speaker 2: no championships changing hands at all on the entire card,
Speaker 2: and I think in general that will be the case here.
Speaker 2: With the exception of the United States Championship. Is don't
Speaker 2: go to dount on the limb. But this Raw Tag
Speaker 2: Team Championship, I don't see how the Revival lose them
Speaker 2: to the USOS. I just don't. I think the Revival,
Speaker 2: with Shane McMahon behind him and the McMahon power by
Speaker 2: behind them, in the stable that they're in, they don't
Speaker 2: lose here. I think that the Revival and usso's are
Speaker 2: going to have a very good match. This could be
Speaker 2: a sleeper of a match that people are overlooking. And again,
Speaker 2: if given the time, that's the key. They could have
Speaker 2: a very very good match, you know, like three and
Speaker 2: a half maybe even higher out of five stars. They
Speaker 2: could have a hell of a match. I just don't
Speaker 2: know if they'll be given the time, and ultimately the
Speaker 2: Revival comes out as champions. What do you think?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Revival a going to come out on
Speaker 4: top as well. I think the USOS could survive in
Speaker 4: victory as opposed to the Revival that although they are
Speaker 4: multi time tag team champions, it seems like every time
Speaker 4: they have a chance to defend the titles, they are
Speaker 4: unable to, whether it be against Gable and Rude or
Speaker 4: Ryder and Hawkins.
Speaker 3: I think like a big statement.
Speaker 4: Win over arguably the best tag team in ww REE
Speaker 4: right now is needed for them. I think if they
Speaker 4: are to drop the titles so soon after winning them,
Speaker 4: it would almost like I wouldn't be able to take
Speaker 4: the seriously.
Speaker 3: So I think this is a crucial opportunity.
Speaker 4: For WWE to allow the Revival to get a big
Speaker 4: impact win against a team like the US those and
Speaker 4: show that they are on that same level with them.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I really think the revivalill come out with
Speaker 4: the win here, and they need the win here.
Speaker 2: They do. And again, I'm not a hot potato title fan.
Speaker 2: I don't like title changes for the sake of title
Speaker 2: changes and oh it's newsworthy. I like long reigning champions
Speaker 2: regardless of who's holding the belt. It means so much
Speaker 2: more when the belts change hands. So in this case,
Speaker 2: in this day and age, long term championship reigns last
Speaker 2: beyond a pay per view like Unfortunately, that is the
Speaker 2: scale and definition of what long term now means. But yeah,
Speaker 2: Revival retains. I think you can pretty much take that
Speaker 2: one to the bank as well. And finally, the Cruiserweight
Speaker 2: Championship with Tony Nice versus Drew Gulak and a Kra Tazawa.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 3: I'm basically Tony Nice.
Speaker 4: I like the way that they've built the I think
Speaker 4: that when he beat Buddy Murphy at WrestleMania, who is
Speaker 4: a telltale sign that they were serious about him.
Speaker 3: I'm with you.
Speaker 4: I like the long title rings here, so I think
Speaker 4: they're gonna stick with Tony Nies here. They've built them well,
Speaker 4: and I think they're gonna give him a bit more
Speaker 4: time before he drops the belt.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't have a strong feeling on this, to
Speaker 2: be honest, because I don't have a lot of emotional
Speaker 2: investment in this, and I don't think most people do.
Speaker 2: I mean, however, two or five Live, they've been putting
Speaker 2: out some good matches as of late. There was some
Speaker 2: controversy in the finish of the number one contender fatal
Speaker 2: four way match, so Gulai can Tzau got the opportunity.
Speaker 2: I think Tony Niss retains because he seems I think
Speaker 2: he's got the most established character in the in the
Speaker 2: cruiserweight division. He's a good champion. As you said, his
Speaker 2: win at wrestle Mania was a statement made by WWE
Speaker 2: to say, hey, we're changing. This is changing of the
Speaker 2: guards here, so we're gonna go with Tony Nice. And
Speaker 2: I think it's Tony Nice for probably the next few months.
Speaker 2: I don't see any reason to take the championship off
Speaker 2: him and just put him in matches, because you know
Speaker 2: he can have good matches and at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, though, he's gonna be the champion. And I
Speaker 2: don't see anything different happening here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, as you brought up like it
Speaker 4: was a change of the guard, and they gave the
Speaker 4: reins to Tony Niese and just in the fashion that
Speaker 4: the two challengers got put into the match, like the
Speaker 4: controversial finish at the end of the Number one Contenders match,
Speaker 4: I don't think that's the kind of, you know, storyline
Speaker 4: that would culminate in Tony lose event actually losing the championship.
Speaker 4: I think it would be something of way more of
Speaker 4: like an intense storyline, a one on one storyline for
Speaker 4: a guy like Tony needs to drop the belt. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be a good match. I think
Speaker 4: it's they're gonna all put on a good show. As
Speaker 4: you mentioned, they've been putting on a good product there lately.
Speaker 4: But I don't think a guy like Tony Nice, after
Speaker 4: winning such a big match against Buddy Murphy would lose
Speaker 4: it in this kind of fashion.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's totally right. I honestly don't have
Speaker 2: a whole lot more to add to this, And it's
Speaker 2: just a shame that they have really defined down the
Speaker 2: cruiserweight division. You know, I just they WW can't seem
Speaker 2: to find that perfect balance of being able to showcase
Speaker 2: this division in a way that feels legitimate and not
Speaker 2: just kind of the stepchild to well, this is the
Speaker 2: main roster and then we have this little, this little
Speaker 2: side thing of the Cruiserweight division. It just doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like it's as important, at least the way they present
Speaker 2: it on air, as it should. And that's the problem
Speaker 2: that I have.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and because again I know I always keep bringing
Speaker 4: back up, but I remember how it was in the
Speaker 4: Ruthless Aggression era and how they weren't kind of just
Speaker 4: segregated into their own TV show, and the Cruiserweights could
Speaker 4: also be taken seriously, Like look at Raymond Sierra Eastern
Speaker 4: as the cruiserweight. I remember the days of Titchierri being
Speaker 4: a cruiseweight and all these guys who were just taking
Speaker 4: more seriously because they could sometimes compete with guys on
Speaker 4: the main roster. So I have had a bit of
Speaker 4: a hard time taking the Cruiserweights seriously because even how
Speaker 4: they treat the cruiser eights when they jump up to
Speaker 4: raw like it's almost like they're graduating to the big show.
Speaker 4: So I'm almost like, oh, Okay, So is this like
Speaker 4: kind of on the par with NXT Because when Cedric
Speaker 4: Alexander jumped from two to five Live to RAW, I
Speaker 4: was at the two five Live there in Montreal on
Speaker 4: his final show, and it was almost like he was
Speaker 4: saying goodbye, he was moving on to bigger and better things.
Speaker 4: So on that respect, I've always kind of had a
Speaker 4: hard time getting emotionally invested into the new version of
Speaker 4: the Cruiserweight Division.
Speaker 2: WWE is just not doing what they should be to
Speaker 2: get people to care because they probably think people don't care.
Speaker 2: But the ironic thing is that people don't care because
Speaker 2: they are showing us they don't care, So how are
Speaker 2: we supposed to care? It's this vicious circle, and I
Speaker 2: just they aren't showing the respect that they should be
Speaker 2: for these athletes that are putting on matches that are
Speaker 2: going overlooked by the majority of fans because WWU is
Speaker 2: not presenting them as as a big of a deal
Speaker 2: as they should be, so fans aren't tuning in. And
Speaker 2: and again it's just like this self fulfilling prophecy of
Speaker 2: c These people aren't paying attention, they don't care. Well,
Speaker 2: we don't care because you're telling us. You don't care,
Speaker 2: so how are we supposed to? It's just this, this,
Speaker 2: and I really believe that that's the psychology going on
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, and it's just it's a shame because
Speaker 2: of the fact of how good some of these guys
Speaker 2: are so antony. Anything else that we didn't touch on
Speaker 2: that you wanted to discuss.
Speaker 4: No, I think we covered everything up the bottom the
Speaker 4: We really touched on all bases this week.
Speaker 3: I find.
Speaker 2: We did. We did, and it's easy. It's crazy how
Speaker 2: fast two hours can go when you're talking wrestling. It's
Speaker 2: it's amazing. Like I'm looking at I'm like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: probably been an hour, right, No, it's been two hours.
Speaker 2: So it's just that's what professional wrestling does. And I'm
Speaker 2: not complaining because that's that's what we love to tell
Speaker 2: talk about. And it's always great to be able to
Speaker 2: bring people on the show that are so much fun
Speaker 2: to talk to, and it's great to have you here
Speaker 2: as a co host. So, but before we let you go,
Speaker 2: let everyone know where they can follow you as an
Speaker 2: official co host now.
Speaker 4: And you can follow me at aid to Marcos twenty five.
Speaker 4: I'll put out this caution if you're gonna follow me.
Speaker 4: I hope you like hockey, because I'm all about that.
Speaker 4: I'm sure you've seen that. Matt especially was the last
Speaker 4: month or so.
Speaker 3: I'm big into hockey. But yeah, at Aid to Marco's
Speaker 3: twenty five was my handle.
Speaker 4: And I just want to say thank you again Matt
Speaker 4: for choosing me to be one of the permanent co hosts,
Speaker 4: and thank you to everyone who wanted me to be
Speaker 4: one of the permanent co host I expressed my absolute
Speaker 4: gratitude and it's my pleasure and I can't wait to
Speaker 4: do it again in three.
Speaker 2: Weeks definitely, I mean it three weeks flies by. I
Speaker 2: know it seems like a long time, but it'll be
Speaker 2: here sooner than you think. And yeah, if you like hockey,
Speaker 2: it is a good follow. I do say that, like
Speaker 2: I am a casual hockey fan. I mean, being from
Speaker 2: the United States, it's not as like Rabbit as it
Speaker 2: is in Canada. However, you know, once the playoffs come
Speaker 2: around in NHL gets into the mix here like I do,
Speaker 2: kind of pop in. So if you do like hockey,
Speaker 2: it's a good follow. You should you should definitely do that.
Speaker 2: And Anthony, it's been a pleasure and always good talking
Speaker 2: with you, and we will definitely be in touch and
Speaker 2: you'll be on the show sooner than you think.
Speaker 3: All right, then, have a good night and can't wait
Speaker 3: to do it again in three weeks.
Speaker 2: Definitely, take care, take care,