Speaker 1: So welcome to our latest episode of The Path Went Chili,
Speaker 1: and Ashley is pretty busy right now, so we've given
Speaker 1: her another break. So for the next series of episodes,
Speaker 1: it'll just be Jewels in Myself again, where I will
Speaker 1: provide her with details about a case and she will
Speaker 1: give off her live reaction. So, Jules, have you ever
Speaker 1: heard of the death of k Hall?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. But once you give me the details,
Speaker 2: like I say all the time, because clearly I'm terrible
Speaker 2: at remembering names, I might recognize the details of this case.
Speaker 2: But maybe not. Maybe this is completely foreign to me.
Speaker 1: Well surprised, surprised. This was a case that was once
Speaker 1: featured on Unsolved Mysteries. I originally covered it on the
Speaker 1: Trail Went Cold as a Patreon bonus episode, but during
Speaker 1: one of the weeks when I was taking time off,
Speaker 1: we decided to release it into our main feeds. So
Speaker 1: it is possible that you have heard the episode at
Speaker 1: some point. And this is one of our favorite sub
Speaker 1: genres Unsolved Mysteries, cases where a woman's disappearance or death
Speaker 1: is under suspicion and their spouse is the prime suspect
Speaker 1: and they were willing to appear on Unsolved Mysteries and
Speaker 1: give an interview to proclaim their innocence, and thought it
Speaker 1: would make them look good, but the majority of the
Speaker 1: time it did not, and it wound up backfiring in
Speaker 1: a huge way. This is one about a woman where
Speaker 1: her husband was accused of running her over with her
Speaker 1: own pickup truck. It did eventually reach a resolution, but
Speaker 1: it was a very unsatisfying resolution. So there are a
Speaker 1: lot of unanswered questions. And this is one of those
Speaker 1: cases where you think, even if the suspected spouse was guilty,
Speaker 1: how exactly did they pull it off? And that's that's
Speaker 1: why I thought we should cover this one, because even
Speaker 1: though from a legal standpoint it is solved, there's still
Speaker 1: a lot to discuss.
Speaker 2: Well, this sounds like a really interesting case. And to
Speaker 2: think that if you were going to end the life
Speaker 2: of your spouse, the idea of running them over, it
Speaker 2: just it feels really horrific. Is there not another i mean,
Speaker 2: less messy or painful way to do it, a way
Speaker 2: that would as sure that that person would pass on calmly?
Speaker 2: I mean just to run somebody over that feels so savage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always suspected that if the spouse did do
Speaker 1: it in this case, it probably wasn't premeditated. It may
Speaker 1: have been just a violent heat of the moment thing.
Speaker 1: But what's really interesting to analyze is that the timeline
Speaker 1: is so important because you can pretty much measure out
Speaker 1: where certain people were at certain times, and you look
Speaker 1: at it and you're wondering, Okay, would the spouse have
Speaker 1: had enough time to pull this crime off and get
Speaker 1: away with it? And what do you been known where
Speaker 1: the victim was and known where to find her in
Speaker 1: order to commit this crime. And that's why people are
Speaker 1: still debating this one nearly forty years later, even though
Speaker 1: it has technically resolved.
Speaker 2: Well, I love a tricky timeline, So let's dig into
Speaker 2: the details.
Speaker 1: Okay. So it takes place in Virginia, and the victim
Speaker 1: was Kay Hall, who was forty five years old at
Speaker 1: the time of her death. During the nineteen seventies, she
Speaker 1: was unmarried and was going under the name Kay Bredorius,
Speaker 1: and she became acquainted with a guy named Bob Hall.
Speaker 1: There really aren't that many details about Bob's previous life.
Speaker 1: We do know that he had a daughter, but it's
Speaker 1: unclear if he was married or if the relationship with
Speaker 1: the mother just fell apart pretty quickly, and it sounds
Speaker 1: like Bob and Kay were just casual acquaintances. But in
Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties, Bob wound up getting arrested for
Speaker 1: selling drugs and he received a two year prison sentence,
Speaker 1: And the details about this are murky, but somehow, after
Speaker 1: Bob went behind bars, he and Kay developed a stronger relationship,
Speaker 1: became involved in a prison pen pal program, and continually
Speaker 1: corresponded over the course of the next two years. So
Speaker 1: by the time Bob was released in nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 1: Kay was waiting for him outside the prison to pick
Speaker 1: him up, and she actually brought Bob home to live
Speaker 1: with her. They developed a serious relationship. She pretty much
Speaker 1: financially supported him before they got married in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, so that's a lot of information that's really interesting.
Speaker 2: We have Bob Hall who has drug offenses in his past,
Speaker 2: but insofar as we know, there's no violent offenses.
Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent sure, because as we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about, there would be allegations of domestic violence
Speaker 1: in this marriage. But like I said, I don't know
Speaker 1: any details about Bob's previously relationship with his daughter's mother,
Speaker 1: So there could have been domestic violence. We just don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we have to take the time
Speaker 2: period into account that in many situations, women would be
Speaker 2: a lot less likely to come forward versus today. Even now.
Speaker 2: It's difficult, but if we're talking nineteen seventies nineteen eighties,
Speaker 2: the view of authorities to a woman who would go
Speaker 2: into a police station and talk about how her husband
Speaker 2: was physically abusing her or abusing her in some way
Speaker 2: might not be taken the same as it would today.
Speaker 2: She might be laughed out of there if she got
Speaker 2: a particularly insensitive police department. So there can be a
Speaker 2: lot of variables that go into if a woman decides
Speaker 2: to come forward and share her story, or a man
Speaker 2: decides to share his story. So, like you said, just
Speaker 2: because the information there, the absence of evidence, isn't the
Speaker 2: evidence of absence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, It is very possible that Bob did have
Speaker 1: a prior history of violence. We just don't know about
Speaker 1: it yet. But whatever happened, Even though it sounds like
Speaker 1: Kay and Bob were nothing more than real casual acquaintances
Speaker 1: before he went to prison, it seems like Kay developed
Speaker 1: a fascination for him after he went behind bars, and
Speaker 1: maybe she was just lone, maybe she just had a
Speaker 1: hard time finding a man, so she decided to enter
Speaker 1: this prison pen pal program and obviously thought of Bob
Speaker 1: so highly that the moment he was released from prison,
Speaker 1: she pretty much decided, I want to be in a
Speaker 1: relationship with this guy, and I'm going to allow him
Speaker 1: to live with me. So very unusual.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think oftentimes when you look at prison relationships,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of different things to go into it.
Speaker 2: If you are somebody who maybe wants a safe relationship
Speaker 2: and that you can't get as emotionally devastated, and you
Speaker 2: keep somebody at an arm's length, then being with somebody
Speaker 2: who's in prison, you have that barrier between you, so
Speaker 2: it can't get too deep. It can't get too serious
Speaker 2: like it can, but it really can't in the same
Speaker 2: way that having somebody physically near you a relationship would
Speaker 2: typically develop. And then you have those who have hybristophilia
Speaker 2: who are sexually attracted to those that who have criminal
Speaker 2: or deviant acts, and that is arousing for them. But
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like that is the situation here. It's
Speaker 2: not like Bob was out there doing violent, horrible things.
Speaker 2: It's a drug offense, and we don't really know the
Speaker 2: details of what type of drugs, do we No, We
Speaker 2: don't no. So I mean, for all we know, it
Speaker 2: could be marijuana, it might be something really minor. And
Speaker 2: maybe when Bob went to prison it was just a
Speaker 2: case that Cave was like, Wow, I really miss having
Speaker 2: him in my life, and let's just see where this goes.
Speaker 2: Because that's a big commitment to take on to write
Speaker 2: to him in prison all the time, and then when
Speaker 2: he gets out, to allow him to live with you,
Speaker 2: and then to financially support him. So it sounds like
Speaker 2: Kay was all in with Bob.
Speaker 1: That's what it sounds like. Yeah, And you see him
Speaker 1: interviewed on unsol Mysteries like, he doesn't come across as
Speaker 1: like a creep. He sounds like someone that if you
Speaker 1: just knew him as a casual acquaintance in real life,
Speaker 1: you would think he was a decent guy. So I
Speaker 1: obviously probably had some charm, even though he may have
Speaker 1: just been using her to try to have a meal
Speaker 1: ticket when he finally got released from prison. So the
Speaker 1: couple lived in a community called Mary Point, Virginia, located
Speaker 1: in Lancaster County and their home was on the shores
Speaker 1: of the Corodamin River near at Chesapeake Bay. And even
Speaker 1: though Kay had a successful career as an insurance executive
Speaker 1: at that point, she decided to leave that behind to
Speaker 1: open an oyster farming business with Bob, which whenever I
Speaker 1: heard that term on Unsolved Mysteries, I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I had never heard of that, But apparently it is
Speaker 1: something that originated from France. It's very popular there where
Speaker 1: you catch oysters and then sell off their shells and
Speaker 1: their pearls and also sell them off for food and
Speaker 1: you can apparently make a lot of money. And I
Speaker 1: guess they are also prominent New yor Chesapeake Bay because
Speaker 1: there are a lot of oysters there. But here it
Speaker 1: turned out to be a disaster because within six months
Speaker 1: the business ran into serious financial difficulties. Ka lost around
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars and she completely exhausted the assets
Speaker 1: of her retirement fund, and perhaps nevitably, this caused friction
Speaker 1: on the marriage, as Kay had this six scessful career
Speaker 1: going on as an insurance executive and she decided to
Speaker 1: go all in with her husband to start this new
Speaker 1: business and it failed almost immediately.
Speaker 2: I really wonder what the dynamics of this decision to
Speaker 2: leave her career as a successful insurance executive to start
Speaker 2: an oyster farm. What was it Bob who broached the
Speaker 2: subject and really pushed and said, Hey, I've got this idea.
Speaker 2: And maybe it sounds a little flash in the pan,
Speaker 2: this oyster farm idea, but hey, we could if we
Speaker 2: are successful, then this could be incredibly lucrative for us.
Speaker 2: And that's a big if, because there's so many things
Speaker 2: to go into starting a business, and then you have
Speaker 2: something like oysters. If they're prominent, they're then great. But
Speaker 2: I don't know what type of business plan or research
Speaker 2: they put behind this before Kay decided this was a
Speaker 2: good time to quit her very successful career that she
Speaker 2: likely had spent years building up and building up the
Speaker 2: relationships in order to get to where she had ascended to.
Speaker 2: So it sounds like a big decision. I'm just curious
Speaker 2: how much of it was Kay and how much of
Speaker 2: it was Bob applying pressure.
Speaker 1: Would not surprise me if it was Bob, and I
Speaker 1: saw the confused look on your face when I mentioned
Speaker 1: oyster farming for the first time, that's just not something
Speaker 1: people familiar with. It sounds like a really niche business,
Speaker 1: and it's obviously a lot of hard work because you
Speaker 1: got to get a boat, you got to go out
Speaker 1: there and catch oysters and hope that you're able to
Speaker 1: sell enough of it to make a profit, and obviously
Speaker 1: they didn't. Bob actually wound up declaring bankruptcy and he
Speaker 1: had an interest in their home, but Kay decided to
Speaker 1: sell it in order to satisfy a tax lean and
Speaker 1: then Kay subsequently purchased Bob's interest in an internal revenue
Speaker 1: delinquent tax sale. So the whole situation caused a negative
Speaker 1: impact on their marriage, as the friend said that Bob
Speaker 1: and Kay started drinking heavily and were constantly fighting, and
Speaker 1: Kay even went so far as to tell a couple
Speaker 1: of her friends that Bob was being physically abusive towards her,
Speaker 1: And even though no one personally witnessed any abuse and
Speaker 1: she'd never called the police, there were people who said
Speaker 1: that they were called seeing her with bruises or black eyes,
Speaker 1: so her allegations did seem credible. But in spite of that,
Speaker 1: Kay said that she was willing to go to marriage
Speaker 1: counseling and make try to make the relationship work. But
Speaker 1: it sounds like that all the financial pressures and the
Speaker 1: heavy drinking were just causing the marriage to get worse.
Speaker 2: Wow. I feel really bad for Kay at this point
Speaker 2: because she had everything going for her and then she
Speaker 2: decides to embark on this relationship with Bob and everything
Speaker 2: starts to fall apart. Not only did she lose her
Speaker 2: very successful career, but her retirement fund or like her
Speaker 2: retirement savings and all the save money that she had.
Speaker 2: And then she had the tax Liane on the home
Speaker 2: which she decided to sell and then bought Bob's part.
Speaker 2: It seems like there's a lot of pressure. It sounds
Speaker 2: like her marriage right now is a pressure cooker because
Speaker 2: you have one a failed business too, You're going to
Speaker 2: have to move and so your home, which we know
Speaker 2: is one of the biggest stresses in life. And then
Speaker 2: we add alcohol to the mix, so we have two
Speaker 2: people who are potentially in the throes of alcohol used
Speaker 2: disorder or just drinking too much. So that can really
Speaker 2: shine a spotlight on any little, tiny issue. And if
Speaker 2: we have domestic violence happening, which I choose to believe, women,
Speaker 2: if Kay's telling her friends that that's what's happening in
Speaker 2: their marriage, then I believe her. We've got no reason
Speaker 2: not to. And Bob, obviously, when we don't know if
Speaker 2: this is an alcohol fueled thing where he drinks and
Speaker 2: then he's abusive, or if it's just the financial pressure
Speaker 2: and potentially the power dynamics in that if he were
Speaker 2: to split from Kay, what would he have k would
Speaker 2: be okay, she could go and find another job in insurance.
Speaker 2: Maybe it wouldn't be as lucrative as being an insurance executive.
Speaker 2: But I feel as though she would be okay. But Bob,
Speaker 2: on the other hand, I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely like this later on is going to
Speaker 1: be pushed forward as a potential motive for murder because
Speaker 1: Kay had bought like Bob's interest in the house. Bob
Speaker 1: was bankrupt, his business has gone downhill, so if she
Speaker 1: left him, if she kicked him out, he would have nothing,
Speaker 1: and obviously, as a former drug dealer who spent time
Speaker 1: in prison, it's not going to be easy for him
Speaker 1: to get another job. And sure enough, there would be
Speaker 1: more money coming into this situation, which provided a potential
Speaker 1: motive because on September the thirtieth, nineteen eighty seven, Kay
Speaker 1: learned that she was going to inherit fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: from a relative who passed away, and that was seriously
Speaker 1: going to help her financial issues, and that very same
Speaker 1: morning she immediately transferred half the money into her bank accounts.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like things were going better for her,
Speaker 1: But of course Bob would not be entitled to that
Speaker 1: money if Kay decided to end the marriage, so you
Speaker 1: can see how some tension was going to get even worse.
Speaker 1: So later that very same night, Kay and Bob decided
Speaker 1: to go to a party at the Indian Creek Country Club,
Speaker 1: which was located about fourteen miles from their home in
Speaker 1: an adjacent county, Northumberland County. And everyone said that this
Speaker 1: good fortune, this new inheritance, put Kay in a very
Speaker 1: great mood. They described her as being outgoing and friendly
Speaker 1: and being the life of the party. But her and
Speaker 1: Bob started to partake in some heavy drinking and this
Speaker 1: eventually led to another argument, and it sounds like the
Speaker 1: big breaking point is that Kay got angry with Bob
Speaker 1: because he apparently gave the bartender an unusually large tip,
Speaker 1: which may have been the result of this big inheritance
Speaker 1: where he finally decided I'm going to start tipping people,
Speaker 1: even though it's technically not my money. So this caused
Speaker 1: a huge rift, and Kay decided to storm out of
Speaker 1: the country club at around eight pm and just decided
Speaker 1: to get into her pickup truck and drive away, stranding
Speaker 1: Bob there. So when the party ended, Bob did not
Speaker 1: have a ride home, so another couple drove him home
Speaker 1: and dropped him off at eight forty five PM. And
Speaker 1: this is a very important detail because sometime within the
Speaker 1: next hour Ka would be killed. And now we know
Speaker 1: that Bob was at his house at eight forty five,
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a lot of unanswered questions about how,
Speaker 1: if he did kill k did he know where to
Speaker 1: find her.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's interesting, So we see something some major cracks
Speaker 2: in the marriage in that Bob is out there spending
Speaker 2: and Kay is probably of the mindset that, like, let's
Speaker 2: be more responsible. She was an insurance executive, so Kay's
Speaker 2: good with numbers. We can assume that much, and we
Speaker 2: can assume that she's got a pretty good eye on
Speaker 2: what would be the right financial moves. And then we've
Speaker 2: got Bob, who doesn't seem to be formally educated in
Speaker 2: anything of the sort, and he was a former drug dealer,
Speaker 2: so I mean it is possible that he could be
Speaker 2: good with numbers. But if he's spending lavishly and tipping
Speaker 2: money that isn't his, I could see how that would
Speaker 2: frustrate Kay, especially if this is a pattern of behavior.
Speaker 2: Bob is spending what they don't have, and now Ka
Speaker 2: is in a situation where she's cleaning up his messes,
Speaker 2: and it sounds like that that is a potential for
Speaker 2: maybe what happen with you Oyster Farm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like the same type of thing where
Speaker 1: Kay is in a great mood, like she says, I've
Speaker 1: got this fifty thousand dollars inheritance, like this could be
Speaker 1: the resolution to all our problems, and it leaves her
Speaker 1: in a great mood, and then the very same night
Speaker 1: she suddenly starts getting pissed off again because Bob is
Speaker 1: becoming irresponsible and probably sent spending too much money. And
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who witness that argument
Speaker 1: were probably thinking of themselves, hmm. Maybe now that Kay
Speaker 1: has more financial security, she'll be more comfortable ending the marriage.
Speaker 1: And this as we're going to find out is one
Speaker 1: of the main reasons people suspected that Bob suddenly decided
Speaker 1: that night that he was going to kill his wife
Speaker 1: and possibly even gets entitled to inherit that fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: So it'd be around nine to fifty five pm, just
Speaker 1: over an hour after Bob was dropped off at home,
Speaker 1: when Kay would be discovered to be dead. Two car
Speaker 1: loads of people who are leaving a party in Northumberland
Speaker 1: County came across kse pickup truck parked on Bluff Point Road,
Speaker 1: which was a dead end back road located two miles
Speaker 1: east from the Indian Creek Country Club. And I find
Speaker 1: that detail interesting because this is in the opposite direction
Speaker 1: of the Hall's residence, because when Bob was dropped off
Speaker 1: at home, they traveled fourteen miles west and here she
Speaker 1: is two miles east from the club, in the opposite direction.
Speaker 1: But these people would find Ka's body underneath the truck's tires,
Speaker 1: and it was apparent that she had been run over
Speaker 1: and crushed to death. The keys were in the truck's ignition,
Speaker 1: the engine was still running, the lights were on, and
Speaker 1: the transmission was in park. It appeared that someone had
Speaker 1: backed over K's torso with the left rear tire, and
Speaker 1: the driver then attempted to apply the brakes and stop
Speaker 1: the truck, but it wound up skidding and this caused
Speaker 1: the left front tire to catch Kse torso and pull
Speaker 1: her backwards, which twisted her body into a very awkward position.
Speaker 1: And because K's body was still warm, like her death
Speaker 1: had taken place a very short time before her body
Speaker 1: was discovered and under normal circumstances, people were thought, well,
Speaker 1: could this be some tragic freak accident, But the fact
Speaker 1: that the transmission was in park was a sign that
Speaker 1: someone had deliberately backed the truck over her.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the distance from where K's body is found
Speaker 2: and the residence is how far sixteen miles?
Speaker 1: Oh, we have the club where Bob and K were
Speaker 1: which is located in Northumberland County, and it's fourteen miles
Speaker 1: west from the club to the Hall residence, and it's
Speaker 1: two miles east from the club to the spot where
Speaker 1: K was found. So obviously, even you know you're suspecting Bob,
Speaker 1: you're thinking to yourself, why was Kay in this particular
Speaker 1: location and how did Bob know where to find her?
Speaker 1: If he did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like initially I was thinking if this was just
Speaker 2: like two miles away, then I could see a scenario
Speaker 2: where Bob comes home. K's home already and he says,
Speaker 2: let's go for a and talk, and they go for
Speaker 2: a drive. Then they're arguing. At some point she gets
Speaker 2: out of the vehicle, he runs her over, and then
Speaker 2: he jogs back to the residents. I guess there's still
Speaker 2: a possibility that that could have happened, and he hitchhiked
Speaker 2: and got back to his home, and that way he
Speaker 2: wouldn't have to know where to find her because she
Speaker 2: was already at home. They took the vehicle and then
Speaker 2: he just left it there and then hitchhiked. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're taking a pretty large risk if you're going to hitchhike,
Speaker 2: because you're exposing yourself to somebody. But this is before
Speaker 2: social media. This is before the internet, right, what years.
Speaker 1: This again, nineteen eighty seven?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so the internet wasn't what, It wasn't a
Speaker 2: variable here, Like they wouldn't have had a computer. And
Speaker 2: so if somebody is getting the news that somebody may
Speaker 2: have hitched a ride and they want information pertaining to that,
Speaker 2: you would have to catch it very specifically on your
Speaker 2: local news, I would think, because there'd really be no
Speaker 2: other way to disseminate that information pretty much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And as we're going to talk about, Bob did
Speaker 1: own a jeep that he had at his residence, so theoretically,
Speaker 1: after he was dropped off, he could have climbed into
Speaker 1: the jeep and gone out driving and found Kay. And
Speaker 1: as we're going to talk about, there is some evidence
Speaker 1: to suggest he did use a vehicle that night. But
Speaker 1: once again, the question is how did he know where
Speaker 1: Kay was? Because this was in the opposite direction of
Speaker 1: the club. As far as I can tell, there was
Speaker 1: no significance to this particular road. So Bob theoretically could
Speaker 1: have driven to this spot, killed k and driven home.
Speaker 1: The timeline is possible, but it's just a matter of
Speaker 1: would he know where to find her because obviously in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven there aren't any cell phones, so it's
Speaker 1: not like he could have called She could have called
Speaker 1: Bob and say, come meet me at this specific spot.
Speaker 2: And wasn't she run over with her own vehicle? She was, yes,
Speaker 2: So what did Bob find her and then get her
Speaker 2: out of the driver's seat and then push her out
Speaker 2: and then run her over. It would make more sense
Speaker 2: if she was run over by another vehicle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's why it is so unusual about this case,
Speaker 1: is the running over with her own truck. And at
Speaker 1: first they even explored the possibility that it could have
Speaker 1: been an accident because Kay. As we talked about, Kay
Speaker 1: left the country club at eight o'clock and the last
Speaker 1: confirmed sighting of her took place at eight point fifty,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like that she was very intoxicated at
Speaker 1: the time because a homeowner from the area claimed that
Speaker 1: she saw k running over a boxwood of plants on
Speaker 1: someone's lawn and she nearly drove into a swimming pool
Speaker 1: before she backed up and drove away. And they would
Speaker 1: later do a toxicology g test and a toxicology test
Speaker 1: and found out that she had a blood alcohol content
Speaker 1: of zero point two seven, which was nearly three times
Speaker 1: the legal limit. And she also, a couple months beforehand,
Speaker 1: had gotten the DUI and was driving on a restricted
Speaker 1: license at this point, so she obviously had a history
Speaker 1: of driving well intoxicated. But unfortunately, there were also some
Speaker 1: signs to point towards foul play because there appeared to
Speaker 1: be visible signs of a scuffle inside tab of the truck,
Speaker 1: as Kay's broken necklace and three fake fingernails were found
Speaker 1: on the seat and the floor. And like I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: the transmission was in Parks. So even though because of
Speaker 1: Kay's intoxication it wasn't completely implausible that this could have
Speaker 1: been in a freak accident, there was enough evidence there
Speaker 1: to suggest that she was in a struggle and that
Speaker 1: someone used the truck to run her over.
Speaker 2: And this sounds like a pretty likely theory, but I
Speaker 2: mean not a theory, but like, this sounds like it's
Speaker 2: highly probable. But then we also have to introduce the
Speaker 2: possibility that, what is more likely, did Kay in her
Speaker 2: drunken stupor maybe pick up a hitchhiker or give somebody
Speaker 2: a ride and then that person did her harm. Or
Speaker 2: did Bob just have the incredible luck to be able
Speaker 2: to randomly find her sixteen miles from his home, quite
Speaker 2: the way in the opposite direction of the country club.
Speaker 2: It just seems so improbable to me that he would
Speaker 2: get into his vehicle and somehow be able to find
Speaker 2: her and then get her out of the driver's seat,
Speaker 2: get himself into the driver's seat, then fight with her
Speaker 2: and then run her over and leave. I'm almost more
Speaker 2: inclined to believe that they both took that vehicle if
Speaker 2: Bob did it. They both took her vehicle, went for
Speaker 2: a drive to talk, and then she got out of
Speaker 2: the vehicle and he ran her over, and then he
Speaker 2: hitchhiked out of there. And the person who gave him
Speaker 2: a ride just never saw any coverage on the news
Speaker 2: or any asking of information, if there was any, because
Speaker 2: I just think it seems so it seems like so
Speaker 2: statistically improbable that such a distance away from your home
Speaker 2: you're looking for somebody, you're going to be able to
Speaker 2: find them. Why would you even be looking there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like on the surface, when you hear all
Speaker 1: the details, like it's easy, you think like it's really
Speaker 1: difficult for Bob to have pulled this off. But now
Speaker 1: I'm going to start sharing the details which cast him
Speaker 1: in a very suspicious light. Make you wonder like why
Speaker 1: this case is such a conundrum, because you'll change your
Speaker 1: mind several times when you hear more details. So, at
Speaker 1: around one am, the Virginia State Police showed up at
Speaker 1: Bob's residence to try to inform him about Kay's death.
Speaker 1: The first person who showed up with a state trooper
Speaker 1: who said who told Bob that Kay had been killed
Speaker 1: in an accident, but didn't really provide any specific details.
Speaker 1: And shortly thereafter, the lead investigator, special Agent David Riley
Speaker 1: from the Virginia State Police, showed up to Bob's residence
Speaker 1: and when they started the conversation, Bob casually mentioned that
Speaker 1: Kay had been run over with a truck, and Riley
Speaker 1: instantly became suspicious because the state trooper had simply said
Speaker 1: Kay had been killed in an accident. He didn't specifically
Speaker 1: say she had been run over by a truck. So
Speaker 1: if you're informed that your spouse has been killed, you're
Speaker 1: automatically assumed that when they say accident, that she crashed
Speaker 1: her car. But him saying that she was run over
Speaker 1: by the truck seemed awfully specific, So that immediately raised
Speaker 1: some red flags.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, Bob, Like, how would you know that information?
Speaker 2: And why would one assume that if you were told
Speaker 2: that somebody was in an accident. I would think that
Speaker 2: that would be somewhere on like, you know, your fourth
Speaker 2: or fifth guess as to what could have happened to
Speaker 2: somebody if they were in an accident, You wouldn't assume
Speaker 2: they were run over. Why would you even think that
Speaker 2: they were outside of the vehicle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and obviously like they weren't thinking. Bob was
Speaker 1: a suspect at first because here he was at home
Speaker 1: and it was such an unusual manner of death. But
Speaker 1: then things got even worse because when Agent Riley Special
Speaker 1: Agent Riley showed up at the residence, he noticed Bob's
Speaker 1: jeep in the driveway and decided to touch the engine
Speaker 1: and discovered that it was warm, indicating that it had
Speaker 1: been recently driven, even though Bob had been taken to
Speaker 1: the country club in case trucks, so there should have
Speaker 1: been no reason for him to be driving it that night.
Speaker 1: So when he initially questioned Bob, he said that after
Speaker 1: he was dropped off by his friends at eight forty five,
Speaker 1: he was at home the entire time, But then asked,
Speaker 1: how come the engine on your jeep is warm, and
Speaker 1: Bob suddenly changed his story and said that, oh, when
Speaker 1: I arrived home and noticed that Kay was not there,
Speaker 1: I drove to the end of the lane on our
Speaker 1: road and back in order to perform a quick search
Speaker 1: for her. But I couldn't find Kay well specially, Agent
Speaker 1: Riley was still pretty suspicious, so he decided to use
Speaker 1: a trick to try and call Bob's bluff and said
Speaker 1: that someone had seen him in the town of Kilmarnock,
Speaker 1: which is located about halfway between the Hall residents and
Speaker 1: the location where Kay was killed. Now, this was completely untrue.
Speaker 1: There was no one who had seen Bob. But Bob suddenly,
Speaker 1: once he hears this, decides to change his story again
Speaker 1: and said that, oh yeah. When I couldn't find Kay,
Speaker 1: I decided to make a quick drive to the Lancaster
Speaker 1: Courthouse because Kay had recently been arrested for you a dui,
Speaker 1: and since she had been intoxicated when she left the
Speaker 1: country club, I was concerned that she may have been
Speaker 1: arrested again. But then I drove to the courthouse and
Speaker 1: I noticed that her pickup truck was not in the
Speaker 1: parking lot, So then I just immediately drove back home.
Speaker 1: And more red flags here, because he just keeps changing
Speaker 1: his story when they give him new information.
Speaker 2: This is highly suspicious. I feel like, because of the
Speaker 2: wild timeline and because we have it just seems so
Speaker 2: highly improbable that Bob would be able to drive find
Speaker 2: her and that things would go down the way that
Speaker 2: they did. But with every interaction that he's having with police,
Speaker 2: it seems like he's lying, and he doesn't seem to
Speaker 2: be lying to cover anything else up. I mean, insofar
Speaker 2: as we know he's not out there dealing drugs anymore,
Speaker 2: because we know oftentimes people can be hiding something, it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean they're responsible for the crime. But in this case,
Speaker 2: we know that Bob has what seems like a pretty
Speaker 2: clear motive since Kay inherited that money, and it looks
Speaker 2: like Kay might be leaving Bob, and the timing of
Speaker 2: it all is highly suspicious.
Speaker 1: Kay is dead.
Speaker 2: He's lying about the use of the vehicle and why
Speaker 2: the engine is warmer the hood it is warm from
Speaker 2: the engine, and anytime new information is given, he's amending
Speaker 2: his story. It's looking pretty clear that Bob is being
Speaker 2: deceptive here, and I can't really see a way that
Speaker 2: he isn't involved at this point. So, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 2: I'm changing my mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not surprised. Usually when people hear that story,
Speaker 1: that's when they start changing their mind and realize, oh,
Speaker 1: even though the logistics are difficult, it really does sound
Speaker 1: like Bob is involved. But of course you presented that
Speaker 1: really intriguing theory about the hitchhiker, because I'm thinking maybe
Speaker 1: there's a scenario where Kay after she left the club,
Speaker 1: maybe she met Bob at home, they went out and
Speaker 1: to drive together, and then after he killed her, he
Speaker 1: hitchhiked home. But the problem is that the engine on
Speaker 1: the jeep was warm, and there's no indication that Bob
Speaker 1: would have driven it anywhere else that night, So that
Speaker 1: pretty much shows that if he did this, he had
Speaker 1: to have driven the jeep, and that this whole hitchhiker
Speaker 1: theory probably didn't happen.
Speaker 2: Okay, Devil's Advocate, I don't think this is likely, but
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna throw it out there. So I just
Speaker 2: mentioned that oftentimes people will lie or be deceptive because
Speaker 2: they have something to hide, or they don't want to
Speaker 2: appear a certain way, and so they'll change some details,
Speaker 2: put some judge on it, maybe amend the truth a
Speaker 2: little bit in hopes that the way that they're perceived
Speaker 2: is different. And maybe we have Bob who was out
Speaker 2: there looking for k and maybe his intentions weren't good.
Speaker 2: Maybe he realizes, oh my gosh, Ky's been found dead.
Speaker 2: And I was out there driving around, They're going to
Speaker 2: think that I did it. So maybe I should lie
Speaker 2: and just say that I wasn't out driving around, because
Speaker 2: then they know that I was dropped off. The logistics
Speaker 2: are difficult. I had nothing to do with this, so
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna lie a little bit because I don't
Speaker 2: want to go back to prison. And I don't think
Speaker 2: it's likely, but it is possible.
Speaker 1: Well, the one reason that might be plausible is because
Speaker 1: it was established that Bob had been drinking heavily at
Speaker 1: the club, so he technically shouldn't have been driving if
Speaker 1: he had gotten home. So maybe he's thinking to himself,
Speaker 1: even though I didn't kill k, I'm technically out there driving. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm intoxicated, and if they give me a breathalyzer, I
Speaker 1: might be charged and arrested anyway. So that's why he
Speaker 1: decided to lie, even if he was completely innocent.
Speaker 2: And at this point do we know if he's on parole.
Speaker 1: It's been five years since he was released from prison,
Speaker 1: so I don't know if, like, if there were any
Speaker 1: terms for his probation, but since he only served two years,
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that maybe if he had a
Speaker 1: parole period or a probation period it might have expired
Speaker 1: since he was released in nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 2: Probably since it was a drug offense, it wasn't a
Speaker 2: violent offense, so I couldn't see like parole or probation
Speaker 2: or whatever extending past the five year period.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. He probably wasn't any any
Speaker 1: legal risk of possibly being sent back to jail for
Speaker 1: violating his parole. But like you said, obviously like police
Speaker 1: become suspicious because he definitely has the motive. It just
Speaker 1: seems like quite a coincidence that Kay would inherit a
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars that very same morning and then get
Speaker 1: killed several hours later that same night. And they started
Speaker 1: talking to Kay's friends and they're saying that, yeah, Kay
Speaker 1: had spoken about divorcing him and threatening him with divorce,
Speaker 1: and since she owned controlling interest in their home, this
Speaker 1: would mean that Bob would get nothing. But because like
Speaker 1: no divorce papers have been filed now, Bob was in
Speaker 1: a position to possibly inherit the fifty thousand dollars even
Speaker 1: though it technically did not belong to him. So it
Speaker 1: just seems like if they had a breaking point that night. If,
Speaker 1: like K flat out told him I want a divorce,
Speaker 1: then Bob could have been motivated to kill her in
Speaker 1: the heat of the moment.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the laws are in the state
Speaker 2: and when it comes to divorces, because it varies from
Speaker 2: state to state, But if they didn't have a prenuptial agreement,
Speaker 2: then even though the house is in K's name, Bob
Speaker 2: might have still been able to lay claim to fifty
Speaker 2: percent of that if they did in fact go forward
Speaker 2: with the divorce proceedings.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I guess it was like extraordinary circumstance.
Speaker 1: This is because technically she purchased controlling interest in the
Speaker 1: home from him as part of a tax lean because
Speaker 1: he had filed for bankruptcy, So no matter what the
Speaker 1: divorce laws were, it's possible she still would have been
Speaker 1: entitled to the entire house. So obviously, the big problem
Speaker 1: with pitting this crime on Bob is finding any evidence
Speaker 1: to place him at the scene, because I mentioned that
Speaker 1: he was dropped off at home at eight forty five.
Speaker 1: The last confirmed sighting of K while she was alive
Speaker 1: was at around eight point fifty, when the neighbor thought
Speaker 1: that she was about to drive into the pool, and
Speaker 1: Bob also made a five minute long distance phone call
Speaker 1: to his daughter from his house at nine forty seven,
Speaker 1: And so that's literally a window of one hour and
Speaker 1: two minutes when Bob could have driven to this location,
Speaker 1: driven home, killed Kay, and then driven home in order
Speaker 1: to make this phone call. So it was sixteen miles
Speaker 1: from the Hall residence to the spot where Kay was found,
Speaker 1: and it would have taken between something like seventeen to
Speaker 1: twenty four minutes to drive there, so Bob could have
Speaker 1: had maybe between fifteen to twenty five minutes to kill
Speaker 1: k and then drive back home to make the phone call.
Speaker 1: But they just didn't have any evidence placing him at
Speaker 1: the scene because even though the engine on the jeep
Speaker 1: was warm, there was no one who could verify that
Speaker 1: they saw Bob driving him that night or saw him
Speaker 1: in the area near Bluff Point Road where Ka was found.
Speaker 1: And there was also one witness who lived near the
Speaker 1: crime scene who said that they remembered seeing Kay's pickup
Speaker 1: truck drive past her house that night, but she claimed
Speaker 1: that she saw no other vehicles pass by for another
Speaker 1: hour or so before the police and paramedics arrived at
Speaker 1: the crime scene. So even though it was theoretically possible
Speaker 1: for Bob to have driven this distance, they just couldn't
Speaker 1: prove it. There was no one who saw him in
Speaker 1: that area.
Speaker 2: I mean, we know that Bob did drive somewhere because
Speaker 2: he has the hood of the vehicles warm he admits
Speaker 2: to it. But I do have still an issue with
Speaker 2: logistics here, Okay, So like it's taking him maybe seventeen
Speaker 2: minutes to drive each way. Like let's just say, if
Speaker 2: he knows exactly where he's going, it's taking like thirty
Speaker 2: five ish minutes, So that gives him what like twenty
Speaker 2: six twenty seven minutes something like that to kill Ky
Speaker 2: and then to go on his way or to look
Speaker 2: for her. Because we're assuming if he's spending thirty five
Speaker 2: minutes driving, he's got twenty five minutes. That means he
Speaker 2: knows exactly where he's going, that he's not doing any
Speaker 2: driving around looking for her. And this seems to be
Speaker 2: an odd place where she was found or where her
Speaker 2: vehicle was. It wouldn't be like this a lookout point
Speaker 2: or somewhere that like she was known to go, So
Speaker 2: we would have to assume that he would spend some
Speaker 2: time looking for her. He's not just going to know
Speaker 2: where she is. He doesn't have her on like Find
Speaker 2: my Friends, so it's not like he can track her
Speaker 2: location or anything like that. So how would he know
Speaker 2: to find her here? And how did he do so
Speaker 2: within such a tight timeline?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is my big sticking point to this case.
Speaker 1: And the fact that there doesn't seem to be any
Speaker 1: significance to this particular road where she was found because
Speaker 1: it was a dead end road. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say anything about Kay having any connection to the area.
Speaker 1: And also the fact that she left the club at
Speaker 1: eight o'clock and we have the eyewitness sighting of her
Speaker 1: almost driving into the pool at eight point fifty and
Speaker 1: this is only two miles away, So where was Kay
Speaker 1: during that fifty minute window? Like what was she doing?
Speaker 1: Was she just driving around or something like that thinking
Speaker 1: about what she's going to do? And like we talked about,
Speaker 1: how did Bob know that Kay would be in this area, because,
Speaker 1: like we said, she's not going to call on the
Speaker 1: cell phone. We know that they checked Bob's phone records.
Speaker 1: So if theoretically, if Kay had found a payphone and
Speaker 1: then called the residence and told Bob, hey, I'm at
Speaker 1: this location, can you come meet me? That would have
Speaker 1: shown up on the phone records. So it just seems
Speaker 1: like if Bob did this, he just got incredibly lucky
Speaker 1: that he was able to find Kay in such a
Speaker 1: narrow window of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, he definitely has the motive, and we see
Speaker 2: the money motive, We see Kay potentially leaving him and
Speaker 2: his life would implode, and we also have the fight
Speaker 2: at the country club. But logistically, it's so hard for
Speaker 2: me to wrap my head around the fact that he
Speaker 2: could do this in this amount of time, and that
Speaker 2: he would be able to successfully find K in such
Speaker 2: a short timeframe, so far away from his home in
Speaker 2: the opposite direction of the country club, and he was
Speaker 2: incredibly intoxicated at the time too. It's not like he
Speaker 2: was operating on all cylinders. So this is really hard
Speaker 2: for me to wrap my head around. As much as
Speaker 2: I think, like Bob is not a great guy because
Speaker 2: of the domestic potential domestic violence, and also just his
Speaker 2: pattern of behavior and the way that he seems to
Speaker 2: treat K, but I also just could never with one
Speaker 2: hundred percent certainty based on the information that we have,
Speaker 2: say that it's one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Bob, Yeah, exactly, like I still think. No matter if
Speaker 1: you think Bob is guilty, there is still a lot
Speaker 1: of reasonable doubt in this case. And of course investigators
Speaker 1: would attempt to test out the timeline because the lead investigator,
Speaker 1: Special Agent Riley, would drive the sixteen mile route from
Speaker 1: the Hall residence at the end of Bluff Point Row
Speaker 1: numerous times to try to test it. And he said
Speaker 1: that yes, depending on how fast I was driving, each
Speaker 1: trip usually took between seventeen to twenty four minutes, and
Speaker 1: theoretically Bob would have had enough time to kill k
Speaker 1: there and drive home. And I know these are very
Speaker 1: popular in true crime cases. We've seen this on Cereal
Speaker 1: where they do simulations of the routes that were driven
Speaker 1: to see if it's theoretically possible to do it. But
Speaker 1: the issue with these simulations is that you can't one
Speaker 1: hundred percent recreate the circumstances of the night the crime
Speaker 1: took place, because hopefully Agent Riley is not going to
Speaker 1: be drinking before he performs these tests, so he's obviously
Speaker 1: not going to be able to recapture Bob's mindset that
Speaker 1: night when he would have been intoxicated and been driving
Speaker 1: around possibly erratically and not thinking clearly. And the big
Speaker 1: difference is when Riley does the simulation, he knows where
Speaker 1: he's going, he knows a specific point he can go to,
Speaker 1: and as far as we can tell, Bob didn't like
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have known that K was going to be
Speaker 1: at this location, so you can't really you have to
Speaker 1: factor in a whole bunch of other stuff, like would
Speaker 1: he have gone on different routes like searching around for
Speaker 1: K before he found her? So that kind of means
Speaker 1: that even though the timeline shows that he theoretically could
Speaker 1: have done it, it doesn't mean that it's one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And I think you made some great points. We have
Speaker 2: a lot of variables that we can't fully understand. You
Speaker 2: can't get into the mind of Bob because, like you said,
Speaker 2: it would be illegal for him to be running the
Speaker 2: simulation and being completely drunk, right, you can't. You can't
Speaker 2: do it. It's just it wouldn't be an ethical thing
Speaker 2: to do and it would be illegal, So that is
Speaker 2: out the window. And Bob doesn't know where he's going,
Speaker 2: so you add him being well past the legal limit,
Speaker 2: I'm sure, and also he doesn't know where he's driving
Speaker 2: it's nighttime, you don't know what the weather was like,
Speaker 2: what the traffic was like, exactly what he was thinking.
Speaker 2: So yeah, theoretically it is possible, but how probable it is,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I just can't in good conscience be like, oh,
Speaker 2: Bob did it, even though I know he's not a
Speaker 2: great guy and there's like a strong likelihood that he
Speaker 2: could have I just can't one hundred percent say like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's the guy, just because, like, how rare is it
Speaker 2: that we have a case with such clear motive and
Speaker 2: we have them have a fight right before the victim
Speaker 2: in this case, Kay ends up murdered and you end
Speaker 2: up saying I don't know if he's responsible. It's it's
Speaker 2: not very often.
Speaker 1: It's true, like this case is a roller coaster ride,
Speaker 1: And brace yourself because I'm going to give you another
Speaker 1: swerve now, which is probably going to make you start
Speaker 1: thinking again that Bob did it, because it casts them
Speaker 1: in a very suspicious light. So, but before we do this,
Speaker 1: we're going to bring an end to this. I think
Speaker 1: we've talked about enough. So this is an end of
Speaker 1: part one, So join us next week for part two,
Speaker 1: when we talk further about the murder of k Hall Robin.
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Speaker 1: Yes. The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
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