WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Constance News Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, welcome back, everybody. We are going to talk

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<v Speaker 2>first hour tonight about college tuition. As some of you,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure probably heard over the weekend or perhaps read

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<v Speaker 2>in today's newspapers that the University of Massachusetts, the president

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<v Speaker 2>of you mass Marty Me and he was interviewed over

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<v Speaker 2>the weekend on WCVB what they call us a A

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<v Speaker 2>it's an interview show. I called on the record and

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<v Speaker 2>he said me and said, President Mean said during COVID,

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't increase two years in a row, but we're

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<v Speaker 2>trying to make sure that if there is an increase

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<v Speaker 2>in tuition, it's below the rate of inflation. He didn't

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<v Speaker 2>confirm a rate, but told WCBB that he expects it

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<v Speaker 2>will come in it under three percent this year. Now

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<v Speaker 2>that sounds, you know, I guess, reasonable in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>the amount of inflation that we've all been exposed to. However,

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<v Speaker 2>it just so happened, as luck would have it, that

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<v Speaker 2>over the last few days, Massachusetts state employee salaries have

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<v Speaker 2>been released, and at the top of that pyramid is

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<v Speaker 2>the University of Massachusetts, which has over thirty thousand employees.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot of people. You could almost fill Fenway

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<v Speaker 2>Park with that. Now, according to the statistics that have

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<v Speaker 2>been released for the most recent year, which is twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four, last year, the average salary in the UMS

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<v Speaker 2>system was fifty five and eighty five dollars. Okay, that

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<v Speaker 2>is that's pretty reasonable when you think about it. The

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<v Speaker 2>average salary in the Massachusettstate Police it's one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>eight thousand dollars. That's the average salary. The average salary

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<v Speaker 2>in the Massachusetts MBTA, it's eighty four thousand dollars. So

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<v Speaker 2>the average salaries at UMass are pretty reasonable. However, when

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<v Speaker 2>you get to the specifics, and I'm not looking to

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<v Speaker 2>embarrass people here and I certainly don't want to get

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<v Speaker 2>into names, but the salary UH is the head basketball

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<v Speaker 2>coach at UMass Amherst and that is about one point

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<v Speaker 2>eight million dollars, actually one point seven million, UH seventy

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<v Speaker 2>one million, seven hundred and seventy eighty nine hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen dollars. This is he's the most most well paid

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<v Speaker 2>individual UH in the in the system. But then you

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<v Speaker 2>get to others. The chancellor at U mass Medical Center

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<v Speaker 2>million and a half. And again I think all of

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<v Speaker 2>those those two salaries are people who are, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in their fields, probably they have the ability to demand that. However,

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<v Speaker 2>when you start to look down some of the different salaries,

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<v Speaker 2>as highlighted today in a Globe, in a in a

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<v Speaker 2>Herald editorial, you have I don't know, the chief People's

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<v Speaker 2>Strategy officer whatever that is four hundred and fifty three

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars. I have no idea what that would be.

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<v Speaker 2>There are lots and lots of people who make chancellors

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<v Speaker 2>do well at you Mass six, earning between a half

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<v Speaker 2>a million and six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. A

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<v Speaker 2>trio of chancellor professors earned between two hundred and two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty three thousand dollars. Now, again, there are

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<v Speaker 2>individuals who you know, just by virtue of their status

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<v Speaker 2>in anything, can command top salaries. But when I looked

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<v Speaker 2>at this list of salaries last week, it was extraordinary

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<v Speaker 2>the number of people who were making more than the

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<v Speaker 2>president president me and I think he was making eight

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<v Speaker 2>hundred thousand. There were several people above him, and several

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<v Speaker 2>people very close to him. So the question is, and

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<v Speaker 2>again this is the Herald today makes point that the

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<v Speaker 2>State House News reported last summer that U MASS enrollment

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<v Speaker 2>was projected to decrease by a third of a percent

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<v Speaker 2>in this fiscal year, and apparently there is a downward

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<v Speaker 2>trend lower birth rates. And U MASS is a really

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<v Speaker 2>good system, whether it's U MASS Amherst the flagship, or

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<v Speaker 2>whether it's you Mass, Boston, U Mass, Lowell, U Mass Dartmouth,

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<v Speaker 2>all the different you know, state universities. But the amount

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<v Speaker 2>of money that we are spending here probably not as

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<v Speaker 2>much as being spent at some schools like Ohio State

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<v Speaker 2>or Michigan State, where where you know, they don't have

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<v Speaker 2>as much competition. There are private colleges in those states,

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<v Speaker 2>but here in Massachusetts we have an abundance of private colleges.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, some of the best in the world. Harvard, Mit,

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<v Speaker 2>Boston College, Boston University, just to name a few toughs.

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<v Speaker 2>The list goes on, and it's just the question is

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<v Speaker 2>how much do we need to spend on education and

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<v Speaker 2>at what point? At what point There's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people who have had to tighten their belts, family budgets,

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<v Speaker 2>small businesses, but at the University of Massachusetts it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>seem to me to be a lot of belt tightening

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<v Speaker 2>going on. So what I want to do is just

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<v Speaker 2>open up the phone lines and see what you think

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<v Speaker 2>is fair. There are just a lot of people in

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<v Speaker 2>the article. The companion article is written by Matthew menscrom

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<v Speaker 2>in The Herald Today is there's a lot of information

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<v Speaker 2>and specifics again about things like the head football coach

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<v Speaker 2>making nine fifty which included a sixty seven thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 2>buy it when he was fired in November. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>as they said Marty Mehen was around eight hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and eight thirty seven to be exact. The university system

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<v Speaker 2>will begin waiving the cost of tuition for families making

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<v Speaker 2>less than seventy five thousand dollars annually this coming year.

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<v Speaker 2>And me And said, under his watch, he's seen the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of need based financial aid increased by seventy three percent,

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<v Speaker 2>which is great. But when you have this many people

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<v Speaker 2>making that amount of money, you have to wonder if

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<v Speaker 2>there are not some some simple budget cuts that could

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<v Speaker 2>be instituted. So I'm going to open it up. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're a UMass student and want to defend, or a

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<v Speaker 2>UMass graduate and I'm a UMass Boston graduate, because I

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<v Speaker 2>graduated from Boston State College a long time ago. But

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<v Speaker 2>I'm proud of the system, and I'm proud of the

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<v Speaker 2>people who I know who work there. But when I

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<v Speaker 2>looked at all of these salaries, I just thought, WHOA,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a lot of salaries in the in big range

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<v Speaker 2>half a million dollars or more. For it looks to

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<v Speaker 2>me like positions that are relatively undefinable, I guess would

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<v Speaker 2>be the one word. I describe it as six one, seven, two, five, four,

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<v Speaker 2>ten thirty six months, seven nine three, one, ten thirty,

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<v Speaker 2>Your comments, your observations. We are back on Night's side

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<v Speaker 2>right after this shortbreak.

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<v Speaker 1>Now after Dan Ray live from the Window World night

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<v Speaker 1>Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So just looking at at some of again, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>looking to embarrass people with names, Okay, that's not my point.

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<v Speaker 2>The head basketball coach out at UMass is getting a

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<v Speaker 2>total of one point eight million dollars. Okay, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>gonna I'm not gonna give you all this one point well,

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<v Speaker 2>one point eight hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. The

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<v Speaker 2>head of the the University Medical System, the Chancellor uh

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<v Speaker 2>and senior vice president of Health Sciences at the University

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<v Speaker 2>of Massachusetts one million, five hundred and ninety eight thousand

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<v Speaker 2>dollars UH. The Executive Deputy Chancellor provo In Dean of

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<v Speaker 2>the University of Massachusetts System one point one million, one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred forty nine thousand dollars. They head football coach nine

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The Executive Vice Chancellor of

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<v Speaker 2>Innovation and Business Development the University of Massachusetts System eight

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars. It is only then

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<v Speaker 2>that we get to the president of the university, former

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<v Speaker 2>Congressman Marty Meehan, who receives boy this is eight hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and thirty seven thousand dollars. Then the Athletic Director of

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<v Speaker 2>the UMass System seven hundred and twenty six thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>The Executive Vice President Vice Chancellor Administration and Finance six

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars, The Executive Vice President

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<v Speaker 2>for Health Consulting the University of Massachusetts System six hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and sixty five thousand dollars. The Chancellor of the University

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<v Speaker 2>of Massachusetts System six hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>The Chancellor of the University of Massachusetts System, six hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty seven thousand dollars. Of the University of Massachusetts

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<v Speaker 2>System Athletic Coach six hundred and forty two thousand dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>the University of Massachusetts System. The Vice Chancellor of University Advancement.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea what that means. Five hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>eighty five thousand dollars. The University of Massachusetts System, Chancellor,

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<v Speaker 2>University of Massachusetts System, five hundred and seventy two A

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<v Speaker 2>lot of chancellors. The Dean of the Management, University of

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<v Speaker 2>Massachusetts System, five hundred and sixty three thousand dollars. The

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<v Speaker 2>Deputy EVC Facilities Management, University of Massachusetts System. Five hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty seven thousand dollars, the EVC, University of Massachusetts Emeritus.

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<v Speaker 2>No idea what that means. Five hundred and forty nine

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars. The University Massachusetts System, Director of the Institute

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<v Speaker 2>of Applied Life Sciences five hundred and forty nine thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the all the employees up until now U

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<v Speaker 2>mass Whatever the number of employee here would be the

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<v Speaker 2>tenth employee. I'm not sure, Philip Bang, who's the MBTA

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<v Speaker 2>General Manager four hundred excuse me, five hundred and forty

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<v Speaker 2>six thousand dollars. Then we have a University of Massachusetts

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<v Speaker 2>distinguished professor. Has to be very distinguished. Five hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>seven thousand dollars. The Chancellor the University of Massachusetts System.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds like we've gone through a bunch of chancellors already.

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<v Speaker 2>Four hundred and ninety four thousand dollars. Also close to

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<v Speaker 2>a half a million dollars. The senior vice president of

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<v Speaker 2>the University of Massive Boy, there's a lot of titles.

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<v Speaker 2>Four hundred and ninety eight four hundred and eighty nine

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars. The Director Executive I'm not, I guess not

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<v Speaker 2>executive director. The director Executive, University of Massachuset System. Four

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<v Speaker 2>to seventy six thousand dollars. Here's one. The Chair of

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<v Speaker 2>the Department Tenured in Tract, University of Massachusetts System. Six

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and twelve thousand dollars. Uh, it just goes on

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<v Speaker 2>and on and on, and now we're getting into some

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<v Speaker 2>some other Most of them are U mass folks. Professor

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<v Speaker 2>tenured track. If you get to be a professor with

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<v Speaker 2>a tenure track, you're five hundred and eighty seven thousand.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an amazing system. The ice hockey coach out there

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<v Speaker 2>gets four hundred and fifty nine thousand dollars. They have

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<v Speaker 2>a chief medical examiner out there, four hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 2>four thousand dollars. Oh, that could be a state that's

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily associate with the with the school. That's a state. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a state office. So it goes on and on.

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<v Speaker 2>An assistant professor, here's a good one. An assistant professor,

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<v Speaker 2>not a full professor. And assistant professor four hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty three thousand dollars. I just again, it's now we're

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<v Speaker 2>into the professors and they're all it looks like, well

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of them are in the four hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>forty thousand dollars range. It says, I, I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if that's interim, if it stands for international, I have

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<v Speaker 2>no IDEA Senior vice president of academic and Student Affairs

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<v Speaker 2>four hundred and forty two thousand dollars. So on and

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<v Speaker 2>on and on. It goes professor four thirty three. So

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<v Speaker 2>the question, I guess is are these salaries. It's it's

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<v Speaker 2>just not one or two or five or six. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot these salaries. Are they acceptable? Let me go

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<v Speaker 2>to Nico in mathuen Nico. I appreciate you calling in.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you tonight?

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<v Speaker 3>How are you mister ra. Nice to see, nice to

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<v Speaker 3>hear it, Nice to talk to you again.

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<v Speaker 2>Nice to talk with you again. Now you are you

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<v Speaker 2>still in school or have you graduated?

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<v Speaker 3>I am no. I actually I'm a comment sophomore at BABS.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's actually why I called a great.

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<v Speaker 2>School at BABS. And I'll say it's a it was

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<v Speaker 2>a top rated school. I thought of you and I

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<v Speaker 2>saw a few weeks ago. I think that in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the in the the starting salaries that graduates make

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<v Speaker 2>from different colleges, they track and I think Batson is

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<v Speaker 2>the number one school in the country.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we are up there. That's that's one of the

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<v Speaker 3>chief statistics that we like to float amongst them.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, proud of that one. Yeah, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>No, So I think now this is I mean, UMass

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<v Speaker 3>Amhurst is a very large school, so I don't I

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<v Speaker 3>think that. I think they have a student population of

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<v Speaker 3>around twenty thousand. Just for clarity, I'm at my campus

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<v Speaker 3>is around three thousand. So I think when when you're

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<v Speaker 3>talking about the the sports. I don't know about basketball

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<v Speaker 3>and hockey, but I know football is a D one

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<v Speaker 3>program which drastically increases the price in terms of in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of the players. I think I'll high state who

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<v Speaker 3>is going to the championship, going to the NASTER the

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<v Speaker 3>College Football Playoffs championship against Notre Dame soon or if

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<v Speaker 3>they have played already, they spent ten million dollars on

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<v Speaker 3>the team of players themselves. They're getting paid to play apparently.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well that's a new development. But you're you're correct, Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you're correct.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think I think that the the plus they

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<v Speaker 3>have to hire, they they run the football program, they

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<v Speaker 3>come up with everything. I think that a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the I don't want to say waste, I'm talking about

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<v Speaker 3>the government, but there is definitely you were mentioning former

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<v Speaker 3>Congressman Maham, I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, and I think realistic from my own from

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<v Speaker 3>my I mean, the president of my school's name is

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<v Speaker 3>Steven Spinelli. He's the he's the he's a co founder

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<v Speaker 3>or a founder of Jiffy Lube. And realistic or yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>so realistically, I mean, I don't know his if he

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't write out his duties for him. But I

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<v Speaker 3>mean he represents the school and tries to get us

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<v Speaker 3>into different places. So I think that's that's the reason

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<v Speaker 3>that I think mister Hanna is probably compensated for that

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<v Speaker 3>because he has to know, since we are at state school,

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<v Speaker 3>you have to know you have to have the political connections.

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<v Speaker 3>To my understanding, you probably have to have political connections

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<v Speaker 3>to get the funding for things you need. But I

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<v Speaker 3>would be I mean, I I don't know what my

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<v Speaker 3>school pays for. Is this just out of curiosity? Is

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<v Speaker 3>this including benefits?

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<v Speaker 2>Is this I think that salary. I'm sure there are

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<v Speaker 2>benefits on top of it, but these are the salaries

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<v Speaker 2>good they've broken down. I rounded the figures to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one point eight million, but it's like one point eight

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<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, it's very very scidentific.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I don't, I don't. I mean, I will

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<v Speaker 3>say you also, and I say, this is somebody who

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<v Speaker 3>is who's going to apply there if I didn't, if

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't get accepted for as an early decision to

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<v Speaker 3>my current school, The Edinburgh School of Business at ums

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<v Speaker 3>Amhurst is very very selective, So I mean, the I

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<v Speaker 3>forget the chances that you were mentioning, I probably would

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<v Speaker 3>expect that considering the amount of money that they're trying

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<v Speaker 3>to invest to get that school up to par I

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<v Speaker 3>think that that's probably well worth. Really, the stuff that

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<v Speaker 3>gets you is tenure, and I think depending on what

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<v Speaker 3>you're trying to cut, it's also the amount of students

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<v Speaker 3>that they have. If you have a class of like

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<v Speaker 3>three hundred kids. I don't know how they're paid specifically,

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<v Speaker 3>but I think that there's also some stuff in there

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<v Speaker 3>that you might if we're gonna if you wanted to

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<v Speaker 3>talk about belt tightening, I think that there's definitely things

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<v Speaker 3>in there. Plus all the the more the more letters

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<v Speaker 3>you add onto your name in the fact, as it

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<v Speaker 3>was explained to me by a faculty member, is how

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<v Speaker 3>you get a better pay. I mean, it's how many

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<v Speaker 3>I totally get that.

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<v Speaker 2>I totally get that you have to have a master's

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<v Speaker 2>degree at least or maybe a PhD. I get all

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<v Speaker 2>of that. It's it's just that I don't even know

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<v Speaker 2>what the tuition is at you Mass at this point,

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<v Speaker 2>but it just seems to me that there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of not only at you Mass but at any college

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<v Speaker 2>around the country. Uh that that there's there's so much

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<v Speaker 2>money that has been pumped into education by the federal government.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people take loans, but the people who

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<v Speaker 2>then have to pay back the loans or guys like you,

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<v Speaker 2>are students like you who graduate and you come out

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<v Speaker 2>of school with a nice with a good degree, but

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<v Speaker 2>you also come out with a bill of whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 3>One hundred Yeah, I think. I think that also what

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<v Speaker 3>what colleges are paying for. And this is also this

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<v Speaker 3>is kind of just a reflection about how how I

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<v Speaker 3>view the matriculation process.

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<v Speaker 4>It is.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a network. It's a it's a it's a

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<v Speaker 3>it's a networking experiment, especially for business from where I

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<v Speaker 3>come from. You know, business instincts are not something you

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<v Speaker 3>can really teach. You know, you can you can teach

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<v Speaker 3>account and you can teach some manners of finance. But

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<v Speaker 3>I think that depending on what you're going for, it's

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<v Speaker 3>who you're connected to. And that's that's kind of I

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<v Speaker 3>think what school if you're asking me personally, I think

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<v Speaker 3>that's what schools are paying for. And that's why it's

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<v Speaker 3>going up so much, because having inns in these specific

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<v Speaker 3>industries is just it's well, it is valuable.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, but I just look at it and again,

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<v Speaker 2>I I hold a state.

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<v Speaker 3>College, I cannot.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't to a different standard. I mean, if someone

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<v Speaker 2>wants to start a private college and they're gonna rely

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<v Speaker 2>on now, again, the private colleges also get benefits of

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<v Speaker 2>all the different you know, federal infe usion of money,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it's just it gets out of reach for

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people. Someone suggested on Friday night, but

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<v Speaker 2>we did the twentieth Hour, that we do more topics

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<v Speaker 2>of how people can get into the trades. And we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to do that because I am a firm believer

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<v Speaker 2>that the college is not for everyone, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>for a lot of people, but not for everyone, and

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of people can become you know, you know, plumbers, electrician, roofers,

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<v Speaker 2>HVAC masons. There's all sorts of art of things that

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<v Speaker 2>can be done that do not require and you can still.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a guy called the other night on Friday

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<v Speaker 2>night who said he was a tower climber. He climbs

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<v Speaker 2>up the big towers you see, the TV towers, And

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<v Speaker 2>I mean he was telling me that he has educated himself,

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily through college, but by taking individual courses here

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<v Speaker 2>on individual courses. Nikola, I got to let you run here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm way past my break, but I always lov when

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<v Speaker 2>you call, and I hope you're going to do great.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no question. Thanks YouTube banks. All right, we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to take a break, take a quick news break here.

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<v Speaker 2>Feel free to join the conversation. Is college just too

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<v Speaker 2>darn expensive? I mean, I remember the guy ran for

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<v Speaker 2>mayor in New York a few years ago because the

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<v Speaker 2>rent was too damn high. That was his platform. I

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<v Speaker 2>think colleges have become, uh just extraordinarily expensive and out

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<v Speaker 2>of reach of a lot of people. Uh And and

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<v Speaker 2>they're they're they're tough. Well again, I think if you

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<v Speaker 2>look at the amount of money that people are coming

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<v Speaker 2>out now with loans, and you see it right here,

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<v Speaker 2>someone's paying these administrators. And I suspect that many of

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<v Speaker 2>these administrators are not interfacing with students, they're not teaching classes,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're getting paid a lot of money. We'll be

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<v Speaker 2>back on Nightside six one, seven thirty six one seven, nine,

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<v Speaker 2>ten thirty. Coming back on Nightside.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're talking about the global actually was the one

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<v Speaker 2>that broke this story. The state payroll climbed in the

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<v Speaker 2>year of twenty twenty four ten point twenty six billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>That's an annual increase of nearly ten percent.

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<v Speaker 5>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's better than inflation. So if you worked at

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<v Speaker 2>for the for the Cormewalth of Massachusetts, chances are that

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<v Speaker 2>your salary increase outpaced inflation, which is good. Roughly seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>percent of the state's payroll, about one point seven six

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars went to the UMAs system. MBTA was second

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<v Speaker 2>at eight hundred and seventy nine million dollars. Trial court

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<v Speaker 2>was third at six forty seven State police fourth at

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<v Speaker 2>four sixty four million. For yeah, four hundred and sixty

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<v Speaker 2>four million point four to seven million dollars. So the

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<v Speaker 2>question that I have is we working for the government

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<v Speaker 2>seems like good jobs? Okay. I want to turn the

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<v Speaker 2>question around and find out from people if they think

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<v Speaker 2>the price of a college degree has simply got too high,

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<v Speaker 2>that there has to be an adjustment here. To send

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<v Speaker 2>your son, your daughter, or your children off to college

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<v Speaker 2>can be extraordinarily expensive for the average family. Now, I

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<v Speaker 2>know that there are programs, and we've talked about that

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<v Speaker 2>on the show before, But are any of you out

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<v Speaker 2>there thinking that, hey, it would be better to learn

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<v Speaker 2>a trade, get a good high school diploma, learn a trade,

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe self educate. People can read books and and

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<v Speaker 2>if they become you know, there's always your sort as

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<v Speaker 2>of electricians, plumbers, Mason's roofers. Now some of you may

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<v Speaker 2>have done it. Feel free to call six seven ten

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six seven nine ten thirty. Then we'll go to

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<v Speaker 2>Robert and Wellesley. Robert, welcome, how are.

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<v Speaker 5>You sir, Good evening, Dan, Thanks for taking on this topic.

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<v Speaker 5>Sure well, And in brief, I am this sounds harsh,

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<v Speaker 5>but I think that higher education in some ways has

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<v Speaker 5>become an expensive rocket and needs to be reformed. And

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<v Speaker 5>I think this has been handled concretely when a comparison

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<v Speaker 5>has been made between secondary school education and jociary school

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<v Speaker 5>education or college that they're if tuitions are compared, there

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<v Speaker 5>really isn't a good reason for there to be the

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<v Speaker 5>tremendous disparity. And I think that so, in other words,

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<v Speaker 5>things could be done less expensively concretely. And the other

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<v Speaker 5>thing is that there has I think with your discussion

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<v Speaker 5>about trades is important. I think there's become an unnecessary

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<v Speaker 5>disparity between education secondary and tertiary level of education and

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<v Speaker 5>UH work and and UH and applying education in work.

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<v Speaker 5>There is a I think a misconception that what you

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<v Speaker 5>learn in school is something that you have to do

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<v Speaker 5>to get a job, but then you don't actually use

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<v Speaker 5>it when you when you get into the in the

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<v Speaker 5>job you need to Some employers may mistakenly say forget

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<v Speaker 5>all that and and just you know, do the job

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<v Speaker 5>they So I think the uh, the I forgot exactly

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<v Speaker 5>how I wanted to express this.

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<v Speaker 3>But the.

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<v Speaker 5>Example would be turning scientists into bureaucrats and then having

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<v Speaker 5>them function more as bureaucrats than as scientists forgetting their

401
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.039
<v Speaker 5>training and huge mistakes can occur in A centerpiece of

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<v Speaker 5>that was the Shuttle disaster, where scientific efferencials were not

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<v Speaker 5>being followed and it had a tremendous consequences. And that's

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<v Speaker 5>just a symbolic example. I feel that I did do

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<v Speaker 5>these comments feel like they're relevant to the discussion.

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<v Speaker 2>Relevant to you. Well, when you went to the Shuttle disaster,

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about the uh, not not the flight that

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<v Speaker 2>on re entry burned up, but you're talking about the

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<v Speaker 2>flight that took off from Florida and the old rings fail,

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<v Speaker 2>uh and blew up as we were watching it. You

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<v Speaker 2>go off into space. Is that is that the.

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<v Speaker 5>Disaster that's the one I'm referring to.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I think that there was some question about

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<v Speaker 2>the overnight temperatures. There was a January lift off, and

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<v Speaker 2>what I forget for the moment what the final result was,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think that they that the o rings on

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<v Speaker 2>the on the shuttle failed. Yeah. I just would rather

419
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 2>simplify it a little bit, Robert and say, hey, is

420
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:17.759
<v Speaker 2>a college degree worth You come out of college these

421
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>days and you could have one hundred and fifty two

422
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:24.680
<v Speaker 2>hundred thousand dollars or more ode and you may have

423
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:27.480
<v Speaker 2>a tough time getting a job with a salary which

424
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.279
<v Speaker 2>will help you live as well as pay off those loans.

425
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.720
<v Speaker 2>And I think that you know, you talk about sort

426
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of the military industrial complex, I think there's an educational

427
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:39.559
<v Speaker 2>industrial complex, and I think it's a little lot of

428
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 2>balance right now, and that if your son or daughter

429
00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:45.599
<v Speaker 2>comes out and decides that they want to become a

430
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.759
<v Speaker 2>plumber or electrician or roofer, I mean those are good jobs.

431
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:53.400
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of skill involved in those jobs, and

432
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:57.279
<v Speaker 2>those jobs. They have to be trained and retrained every

433
00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.799
<v Speaker 2>couple of years to make sure they're staying up to date.

434
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>All of that, they're compensated well, and they don't have

435
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 2>to pay off student loans. And I just think that

436
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.400
<v Speaker 2>more people over time are going to start, hopefully beginning

437
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 2>to look at some of those jobs and say, hey,

438
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.119
<v Speaker 2>if I come out with a degree in archaeology from

439
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.079
<v Speaker 2>a great college, what am I going to do with that?

440
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:19.759
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's there's no great demand for people with

441
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:21.359
<v Speaker 2>the archaeology degrees.

442
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.359
<v Speaker 5>That's your comments about I'm sorry, your comments self education

443
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.119
<v Speaker 5>or are very are very relevant, pertinent. I agree with

444
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 5>them and I and there's the saying they used to

445
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.960
<v Speaker 5>be saying. In the final analysis, all education is self education.

446
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:43.880
<v Speaker 5>What formal education is an advantage in that in that

447
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.039
<v Speaker 5>it teach, it makes the person better equipped to do

448
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:49.680
<v Speaker 5>self education.

449
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:53.960
<v Speaker 2>And fair enough, I'll accept that, Robert. I'm that's my

450
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>break here. I don't mean to interact your train of thought,

451
00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.319
<v Speaker 2>but you made some interesting points. I appreciate your call

452
00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:01.200
<v Speaker 2>as always. Thank you have a right take a very

453
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:03.880
<v Speaker 2>quick break. Coming right back on night side. We're talking

454
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:08.359
<v Speaker 2>about the cost and the value of college and university education,

455
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.640
<v Speaker 2>and you look at this payroll and you say, boy,

456
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:13.200
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of folks out there making a lot

457
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.920
<v Speaker 2>of money. And I frankly don't know what a lot

458
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:20.680
<v Speaker 2>of these positions are. But once you get one of

459
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:25.759
<v Speaker 2>those jobs at that level, uh, you you could take

460
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.960
<v Speaker 2>a glide glide glide path to a very comfortable retirement

461
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.279
<v Speaker 2>with that type of employment. Back on Nightside after this.

462
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World

463
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.519
<v Speaker 1>Nightside Studios on w b Z, the news radio.

464
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:42.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, let's see what the rest of our call is said.

465
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Let me go to Joseph in Middleton. Joseph next on Nightsider.

466
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Right ahead, we lost Joseph. Okay, Joseph, call back. We'll

467
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>try to get you on. What happens is a lot

468
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.920
<v Speaker 2>of times people are waiting and they're listening on speakerphone,

469
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.799
<v Speaker 2>and of course when they go to to reconnect, they

470
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:03.440
<v Speaker 2>lose the connection. So, Joseph, you waited a long time,

471
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Feel free to join us. Six one seven four ten

472
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>thirty six one seven nine. Tom in West Virginia, Tom,

473
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 2>welcome back.

474
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 5>How are you you know?

475
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:20.319
<v Speaker 4>I Camember time and Billy Bulger were tired and he

476
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 4>was going to look like two hundred grand a year

477
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:27.960
<v Speaker 4>working for you mass. I don't know if he's and

478
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.440
<v Speaker 4>I remember thinking at that time that's unbelievable. But you

479
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 4>really should do an exposies of the people of two

480
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:40.440
<v Speaker 4>masked universe. It's un.

481
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Tom, hold on for a seconds reason we're having Tom.

482
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:48.519
<v Speaker 2>We're having trouble with your with your call here. Let

483
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:50.799
<v Speaker 2>me Rob trying to clean up your line. I think

484
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:53.480
<v Speaker 2>the controversy that you're referring to with Bulger was he

485
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.559
<v Speaker 2>was getting a pension for like two hundred and twenty

486
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.960
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars. I think that his salary far exceeded that

487
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.119
<v Speaker 2>in actuality. But Robo tried to clean up your line.

488
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:04.839
<v Speaker 2>In the meantime, let me go to Debbie and Quincy.

489
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.119
<v Speaker 2>W you're going to get you in here. Go right ahead,

490
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:09.119
<v Speaker 2>you're next a night side. Hi.

491
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.440
<v Speaker 6>I am an actual union painter, and I've been in

492
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:15.839
<v Speaker 6>the trade for forty seven years.

493
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Good for you.

494
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:20.880
<v Speaker 6>And I got a college degree at forty two, okay,

495
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.799
<v Speaker 6>And I have a daughter who actually went to college

496
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.839
<v Speaker 6>and came out with one hundred thousand dollars and now

497
00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:29.359
<v Speaker 6>is a union electrician.

498
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Good for her because she.

499
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:36.279
<v Speaker 6>Couldn't find a job that was paying a substantial amount

500
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 6>of money so she can play her student loan and

501
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:40.880
<v Speaker 6>live on her own.

502
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're exactly the caller that I was hoping to

503
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:48.519
<v Speaker 2>hear from tonight, because you got your college degree and

504
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>worked as a painter, probably a pretty good one. And

505
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:57.720
<v Speaker 2>your daughter is now working as an electrician to help

506
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.240
<v Speaker 2>pay off for her college loans. Right.

507
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:02.720
<v Speaker 6>Well, mom and dad helped her pay that. And I

508
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:06.200
<v Speaker 6>also have a daughter that went to college with a

509
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:10.440
<v Speaker 6>large degree amount of money that you know, for her degree,

510
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:13.039
<v Speaker 6>and not even work in the trade she went. She

511
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.880
<v Speaker 6>went into graphic design, and she works at a dispensary

512
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.360
<v Speaker 6>making lousy money and just barely makes her rent. And

513
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.480
<v Speaker 6>with the college degree that she had, she's done nothing

514
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:28.599
<v Speaker 6>with it and can't simply do anything with it because

515
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.840
<v Speaker 6>with graphic designs, it just the work is an outfit

516
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:33.239
<v Speaker 6>that pays that kind of money.

517
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, Debbie, I think you're the listener I was

518
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:44.360
<v Speaker 2>talking to tonight. I mean, you figured it out. Your

519
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:47.679
<v Speaker 2>daughter took the more traditional route and she's paying through

520
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 2>the nose. Where did you get your college degree? If

521
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I could, if I could be so bold to.

522
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 6>Ask, I got it at Marshall University, with the help

523
00:34:55.400 --> 00:35:00.360
<v Speaker 6>of my union. I am a part time instructor. Frendice

524
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 6>instructor helped and safety instructor that I was apprentice instructor

525
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.960
<v Speaker 6>for a while, and my union actually helped pay my degree.

526
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.119
<v Speaker 2>And you said it was Marshall University.

527
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I was Huntington West Virginia.

528
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm familiar with Marshall University.

529
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

530
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.440
<v Speaker 2>I think that they had a horrific plane crash many

531
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:25.400
<v Speaker 2>many years ago which wiped out their football team, if I'm.

532
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.000
<v Speaker 6>Not mistaken, and the unions with they have I'm sorry, Yes,

533
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:30.000
<v Speaker 6>I am familiar with that.

534
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Are you are you from that neck of the woods

535
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 2>or were you able to do this?

536
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:33.800
<v Speaker 4>No?

537
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:37.719
<v Speaker 6>No, I'm a dchess. I did it remotely, and once

538
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.880
<v Speaker 6>a year we had to go down and do classes

539
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:44.280
<v Speaker 6>down there on site. And the union is one to help.

540
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Good for you. That's great to hear. I'm going to

541
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:50.599
<v Speaker 2>do more on this sort of topic. I really am.

542
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.559
<v Speaker 2>And I'm so glad you listened. And I'm so glad

543
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.239
<v Speaker 2>you called because most people also.

544
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.800
<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry, but I was going to say, is I

545
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:05.360
<v Speaker 6>work right now? My second job is I work full

546
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:08.840
<v Speaker 6>time instructor for what they call the building Pathways Boston,

547
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:12.960
<v Speaker 6>which helps young students and young adults get into the trade.

548
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:16.159
<v Speaker 6>It was actually shotted by Maddy Walsh thirteen years ago.

549
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, do be a favorite, Do be a favorite, stay

550
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.400
<v Speaker 2>in the line, give you a call dur in the week,

551
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:23.000
<v Speaker 2>and I'd like to get more and I get some

552
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.559
<v Speaker 2>representative of that group and come on and talk about it.

553
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.280
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Oh wonderful, they would love that.

554
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Rob, will give you my direct line and give

555
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:34.679
<v Speaker 2>me a call and give leave me a daytime phone number,

556
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.159
<v Speaker 2>either of you or a person I can talk to

557
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:37.760
<v Speaker 2>with that group.

558
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:41.119
<v Speaker 3>Fair enough, sad enough, thank you, thanks that.

559
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I'd be appreciate. Okay, hope we got Tom back. Tom,

560
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.360
<v Speaker 2>you were breaking up for us before. Go right ahead.

561
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I've got satellite internet down here. My apologies. No,

562
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 4>it's funny that she mentioned Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia.

563
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:02.079
<v Speaker 4>I worked at a local three seventeen, West Virginia, and

564
00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:05.400
<v Speaker 4>their football teams called the Thundering Herd, but I wrote

565
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.679
<v Speaker 4>for the Mountaineers. My mom went to Morgantown back in

566
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:13.400
<v Speaker 4>the early fifties. Anyway, what I was saying with regards

567
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:20.000
<v Speaker 4>the salaries that the administrators at UMass get is just unbelievable.

568
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.599
<v Speaker 4>And if I go back to the early eighties, I

569
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.559
<v Speaker 4>had a girlfriend that went to the old UMass Lowell.

570
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:31.199
<v Speaker 4>Her tuition back then with room and board was twenty

571
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:34.920
<v Speaker 4>five hundred a year, and I would say that now

572
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:38.199
<v Speaker 4>it's called you mass l it's a very good engineering school.

573
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:42.880
<v Speaker 4>I would say, now it's probably at least forty grand

574
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:48.079
<v Speaker 4>a year, and it's unbelievable, you know, And that's a

575
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:54.559
<v Speaker 4>state school. And I don't know, I you know, I

576
00:37:54.840 --> 00:38:00.360
<v Speaker 4>do remember my senior year in high school, I had

577
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.440
<v Speaker 4>a math teacher that was talking about how at some

578
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:07.159
<v Speaker 4>point Yale University would go from about five thousand dollars

579
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.719
<v Speaker 4>a year to nine thousand. And I really wasn't paying

580
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.480
<v Speaker 4>attention because I went to technical school after high school.

581
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.519
<v Speaker 4>But I did a friend of mine that was going

582
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 4>to Boston College back then on the fall of seventy eight,

583
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:23.599
<v Speaker 4>and I don't know if it was a semester or

584
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.320
<v Speaker 4>for the year, it was fifty four hundred dollars, and

585
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.440
<v Speaker 4>I just about choked when he told me that. I

586
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.440
<v Speaker 4>went to Coin Electrical School, you know, in the corner

587
00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:36.079
<v Speaker 4>of mass Aven Newbury to be essentially trained for electrician

588
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.679
<v Speaker 4>and I think I paid eighteen or nineteen hundred dollars

589
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:40.199
<v Speaker 4>back then.

590
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:41.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that would be the same.

591
00:38:41.719 --> 00:38:42.079
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

592
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure the cost or equivalent. And you got a

593
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:48.320
<v Speaker 2>career out of it. A lot of people who went

594
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:52.760
<v Speaker 2>to great colleges ended up in different careers. That's again,

595
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:56.280
<v Speaker 2>It's just my point is it's different paths for different people.

596
00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:00.639
<v Speaker 2>That's all simple, simple as that. Yeah, absolutely, I'm up

597
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:03.320
<v Speaker 2>against it. I know your time next time, but unfortunately,

598
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.679
<v Speaker 2>your your connection is fortunately your connection is much better

599
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:10.760
<v Speaker 2>now than it was before. We'll talk soon, okay, yep,

600
00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:13.199
<v Speaker 2>take care, Thanks Tom, talk to you, bye bye. Okay,

601
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:14.840
<v Speaker 2>we come back and take a break and to talk

602
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:18.039
<v Speaker 2>with John Cesto. John wrote a very interesting piece in

603
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:20.760
<v Speaker 2>the Boston Globe this morning in the Business section that

604
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:25.960
<v Speaker 2>talked about the uh people are still leaving Massachusetts, but

605
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:28.559
<v Speaker 2>not as at higher rate as it was a year

606
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:31.559
<v Speaker 2>or so ago. Uh So, I guess we can say

607
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:34.119
<v Speaker 2>something positive about that. But we'll see what John Shasto

608
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:36.280
<v Speaker 2>has to say. Coming back on Night's side right after

609
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:36.400
<v Speaker 2>this