Speaker 1: Hello, this is the Itchy and Bitchy Podcast because being
itchy is bitchy and our medical system sucks. I'm doctor
Keith Nolica, a vetnary, allergist and dermatologist.
Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Miller, a doctor of nursing practice and
a Q Care nurse practitioner.
Speaker 1: Send us your questions at ask at itch not dot com.
We love you, but we're not your doctors. The information
we discuss is not direct medical advice. Please talk to
your provider who is the expert on your care. The
Itchy and BITCHI podcast is sponsored by doc Itchy Medical
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send us a question at it ask at itchnot dot com.
Speaker 3: Thanks, hello, doctor Miller. How are you today?
Speaker 2: Wayne dia Oliver? I?
Speaker 3: Okay? You ready for an episode? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1: So I a little bit about me, maybe too much information,
but I have horrible sensitivity to beef. So like, even
if I eat at a restaurant and they grilled my
chicken or shrimp on the same grill that they had
steak grilled, or if I eat a little bit of
the potato that has some steak juice on it, or
the bun from a hamburger, I will have horrible reactions
to the point of like rolling around in the bathroom
on the floor thinking I should call nine to one one.
Speaker 3: It's not very pleasant.
Speaker 1: Okay, So last night I was at a party with
friends and this guy friend said, oh, I have that too,
Is it from the tick bite? And I was like,
what are you talking about? Yeah, And actually I didn't
know what he was talking about. He's talking about Alpha
gal And this came out in the literature popular literature,
just like a few years ago.
Speaker 2: So it's important to kind of tease through, like yeah,
Alpha gl Now though it is not like a gay
drag queen thing like Alpha Guru. This is like legit style.
Speaker 1: So it's basically where you get bitten by a tick
and that's a specific tick, and then that mimics animal protein,
so that when you eat beef, pork, lamb, any kind
of animal protein, you end up having an allergic reaction
to the meat. And so it's a sensitivity triggered by
tick bites. So our care captain here, Doctor Miller is
going to tell us about alpha gal and then we're
going to talk about other richetsial diseases, and those are
tick board diseases, so like Rocky Mountain spotted fever or
Lickia anaplasmosis, and then we're going to talk about how
to prevent that. And there's actually a lot of information
from dogs and cats that is being applied to humans.
So usually we steal information from the human side and
apply it to dogs and cats, but this is actually
going backwards.
Speaker 3: So tell us about alpha.
Speaker 1: Gal and why I'm rolling around on the bathroom floor
in agony.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like you said, alpha gal is a tick
associated condition that is caused by immune globulian E mediated
allergy to beef and other mammalian meats. And so alpha
gal stands for a big long bunch of words called galactose,
alpha one three galactose short shortened alpha gal. And what
it does is tick Spit contains alpha gal, which then
triggers IG and A bodies, and then when sensitized individuals
eat beef or mammalian meat, alpha gal anigen absorbs through
the fat via glacolipids and are incorporated via chylomcrons are
tiny little you know, faticles, yeah, fat vescals, and so
these inner circulation in approximately two hours after eating, and
then you have the reaction at the level of the
mast cells in the gut, and so the reaction you know,
can be things like terrible headache, horrible fatigue. You know,
they're so you can feel really miserable with it, and
some people can actually get anaphylaxis. So it's important for
those people, you know, to keep an epi pan around
should they have anaphylaxis with this.
Speaker 3: So a little bit of unpacking that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: Tick spits, So what's up with the spit, Like, why
are tick spitting? Well, they have saliva, just like so veterinarians.
To a lot of parasitology, the saliva of biting insects, mosquitoes,
ticks is actually an anti coagulant. So what they do
is they have their little nose, and the nose as
like little scissor kind of apparatus, and it pierces the skin.
It kind of scissors through the skin, and then they
start producing salivary pumps, produce saliva spit, and they inject
it into the mammals skin and it's an anti coagulant,
so they can suck blood. But it's the saliva the
spit that does a couple things. One is that it
can cause allergy, so animals and people can actually be
allergic to the insects saliva, and this is why some
people are super sensitive to insect bites like mosquitoes compared
to other people that aren't really bothered. But the spit
can also transfer proteins like this alpha gal or tick
born diseases. So a lot of these tickborn diseases like
Rocky Mountain spots fever, actually live in the stomach of
the biting insect, like the mosquito with malaria or the
ticks with antiplasma or lichea, and when they inject the saliva,
they kind of like vomit into the skin as well,
and the saliva and the secretions from the tick transfer
a lot of kind of nasty things. So it turns
out that this alpha gal in the spit just happens
to mimic animal protein that we like to eat as
pork chops and steaks, and then we can get sensitized
to it. So my symptoms, I actually think that I
truly have a food allergy. I've never been tested for
alpha GAL, but I within twenty to thirty minutes, so
it's not instant. But twenty thirty minutes start having horrible
abdominal cramps and horrible blowout diarrhea a little bit maybe TMI,
and then I start getting lightheaded and faint and almost
almost feel like I'm going into like an anim a phylactic.
Speaker 2: You might have riilled back on the blowout.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's too discovered. But so can people go
into naflexus with this? They actually can't be pinned.
Speaker 2: They can, and so it's important you know that if
you've had a history of tick by IT and you're
exhibiting these symptoms of diarrhea and nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain,
that you share that with your provider so that the
proper testing can be done, because there is an alpha
GL specific IgE blood test that can be evaluated.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I've never been tested, So I go to
my provider. They'd get a blood sample. I assume they'd
send it off somewhere, and then a couple of days
later they tell me if I'm positive or negative, and
then if I'm positive, I know that I truly am
not crazy that I an issue. And then is there
anything you can do to fix the hypersensitivity or do
you do?
Speaker 2: Pretty much it's meat dietary avoidance is the main thing.
And then tick by prevention, so if you're out and about,
you know, doing it, we'll talk about that in a minute.
And ticks are really nasty, oh fature. Yeah, and they
like cracks and crevices, Oh my goodness. Really, they transmit bacteria,
they transmit viruses and parasites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So interestingly, what if I took like a benadryl before
I ate a steak? Would I be able to still
eat the steak?
Speaker 2: Probably not, but it might. I mean, there's no way
to know and to attempt that. Like premedicating for your food.
Speaker 1: What we see in dogs is that the amount of
food enagen is not is so so great, like a
big chunk of steak, that it overwhelms any mild impact
that anyhistamines might have or something like that. I kind
of bring this up because the guy that brought this
up Last night we were actually eating fall off the
bone ribs that our other good friend had cooked, and
we had waited and waited all evening for these ribs.
Speaker 2: Technically we didn't get to eat them because they were late.
Speaker 1: Well they came out like ten o'clock. But anyway, but
he really was debating the concept of getting an epi
pen and eating.
Speaker 3: The ribs and being prepared with his epipin.
Speaker 2: Now it is ever. I mean, people that get anaphylaxis
they ip and different works.
Speaker 3: So should you have epinifferent and eat the ribs? No?
Speaker 2: Hell no, like you're going to put your body through that.
Speaker 3: It's probably not a good idea.
Speaker 1: And that's actually what we told So maybe rethink that
a little bit. But the ribs did look really good.
So what about other proteins? You said, mammal proteins, So
what about poultry or yeah?
Speaker 2: So really, truly, when you look in the literature, it
is to beef, pork, and lamb, although like in your
case that you can eat lamb and you can eat pork,
but you can't eat beef.
Speaker 1: So I may not be positive for alpha GU. I
may have a true food allergy to beef. It's hard
to know until you get the tests and they're actually
testing for food allergy is really really difficult in animals
and people. The accuracy of the tests is pretty low
even though they're offered. But this is one that's a
very clear yes or no blood test, and so definitely
it's worth getting more information.
Speaker 2: Just for the general there are lots and lots of
gelatine containing vaccines and pill coverings and things that can
have beef.
Speaker 3: Yeah, run into this.
Speaker 1: So I'm so sensitive to beef that some of the capsules,
like antibiotics will come in a capsule sometimes and a
lot of those are gelatine or jello. The most common
source of gello. This is kind of gross, but it's
actually beef bovine trachea. So they take the tracheas because
there's a lot of collagen in it and they kind
of dissolve it and that forms this gelatine coagulant that
we then use to cook with and eat. Even some
of the joint supplements like glucosamine are often source cow
source bovine is a scientific word, and I'm incredibly sensitive
to those. So if you are sensitive food allergy or
this alpha gal, then really look at all of these
supplements and make sure that you have like a seafood
origin glucosamine, or if you're taking any collagen, make sure
that it's poultry collagen and not a bovine based or
cow based collagen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think our topic is certainly apropos with
summer coming now, Alpha gal is going to affect the
individual no matter what the season, But certainly I think
with the with some are coming around and the exposure
to ticks, we're certainly at an opportune moment to start
exploring tick moore and illnesses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're they're pretty nasty. So okay, we're going
to take a break here and then we're going to
come back and talk about there riquet seal diseases, the
true nasty, life threatening disease like lime disease, rocky Mountain
spotted fever. We have some statistics on those in dogs, cats,
and humans. A little bit of foreshadowing. All of the
incidents are doubling or tripling with all of those diseases,
so we're getting more and more exposure and that can
cause really severe chronic diseases sometimes. And then finally we'll
finish up with how to prevent and avoid ticks and
insect bites, a lot of information from our pets that
can apply to people, and then finally at the end
we'll have our legit or bullshit episode, So hang in
there and stick with us. We'll be right back after
a short break. All right, welcome back. We're going to
talk about some of the other scarier diseases, the er Lika,
Rocky Mountain spotted fever, anaplasma lime disease, and those are
usually transferred by ticks and so kind of like the
alpha gal but a little bit different. These are actually
truly infectious organisms. They're called rickettsial organisms or diseases, and
they're tick born. And so some of these, like lime disease,
mainly affect people, but they can't affect dogs and cats.
And then some affect more in dogs, like or Likia
was discovered during the Vietnam War in nineteen sixty eight,
and a lot of the military dogs were actually having
life threatening bone mirror suppression and anemias and we're dying
in the jungles of Vietnam. And it was finally discovered
that this was an insect vector bore and disease that
potentially could be treated. So the most common of these
are going to be the Rocky Mountain spotted fever, which
our government or of Tennessee actually contracted several years ago. Anaplasma.
Antaplasmosis is the name of that. If they add osis,
that's usually the name of the disease as opposed to
the organism. And then we have or likia, and then
finally we have lime disease.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Lime disease is really the most common in people LIKA
the United States, and we see quite a bit of that.
As a matter of fact, I've seen already this week
some people who have been suspected of tick bite and
then subsequent symptoms.
Speaker 1: So we need to kind of say we're in the
late spring, early summer months here as we're recording this,
and ticks depending on your weather. If you don't have
snow on the ground, then probably you need to worry
about insects, mosquitoes, chuggars, scabies from wildlife, and then here
we're talking about ticks. So the concept of winter time
and you don't need to worry insects or ticks is
really if you have snow and ice on the ground,
not just the season of December, January, February.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's also really interesting with the varying forms of take
born disease that most of the treatments are doxy cycling. However,
unless you get babiosis, which.
Speaker 3: Is abiosis is how I say it?
Speaker 2: Now? What well, pardon wall, And so it's a parasitic infection,
and so that one is treated differently with samazethromyce and
a TOVA kwone or whatever, a tova I know, Yeah,
I'm not really up on these.
Speaker 1: N The other thing with all of these is that
the way to diagnose it used to be really difficult.
They would do like just screen screen, bloodwork CBC, and
then you would have symptoms and it was sometimes really
challenging to diagnose, like lime disease or Rocky Mountains spotted fever.
Speaker 2: It's still very challenging.
Speaker 1: Well, so nowadays DNA testing is very very accurate unless
you have chronic exposure. And that's almost like the alpha
gal where these tick born diseases could have come and gone,
but the chronic sort of inflammation and immune stimulation almost
like a loopus kind of situation that's been triggered by
the infection.
Speaker 2: The problem is that the symptoms are so vague and
generalized that it's like everybody that enters the hospital has
these symptoms, and then you're like, but like for lime disease,
there's a two tiered zerological testing the ELISA and then
a second ELISA, so you do this two tiered testing
for that one. So yeah, kind of challenging. Blood smears
certainly help and so those are certainly helpful, especially with
the parasitic types of infection or where the patient ends
up having some severe aplastic and emi or something like that. Association.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is actually where our veterinary species we're
a little bit ahead of this. So we actually have
a snap test which does this kind of in clinic.
You just get a blood sample, you spin it down,
collect the serum off the blood sample, and then you
put it on this little it's almost like the COVID
tests that we have now, but this actually tests for
three to four different diseases simultaneously and it cooks for
five to ten minutes, and then a little positive or
negative like a pregnancy test, pops up. And the accuracy
on those is actually pretty good. It's about ninety to
ninety five percent sensitivity and specificity, which means how accurate
it is. Those are scientific statistical kind of parameters, but
so in animals, it's actually relatively easy to get at
a preliminary test within ten minutes. In the clinic, which
is kind of cool.
Speaker 2: It's also interesting that not all of these infections have
rash associated. So, for example, with lime disease, about seventy
to eighty percent individuals will develop a rash and it
may develop this sort of classic rash, which is a
target or bullseye type of rash that people can get.
And so that's very specific for Rocky mount spoted fever,
for elecies, I mean s for lime disease. Yeah, sorry
about that. And so for Rocky Mounts spitted fever, which
has the highest mortality rate. You know, the classic is fever, headache,
and rash. So it's a kind of a macular, raised
kind of rash, generalized rash that those folks get.
Speaker 3: But then in dongs, the most common is are likia.
Do people get ar likia?
Speaker 2: Yeah, people get or likiosis. And as a matter of fact,
I've had a gentleman that had or lichiosis, so we
have of course, of course he was treated many years ago.
Rash can occur in those individuals up to about thirty
percent of the time, So not everybody gets.
Speaker 3: A rash, and that's why it's hard to diagnose.
Speaker 1: There's not an absolute hallmarks symptom and then even like
the lime disease, the ring can be caused by other
things as well, So I definitely talk to your provider,
you know, don't try to treat yourself. And nowadays testing
is readily available and much much more accurate.
Speaker 2: And it's also important for folks to remember that there
are some many evolving pathogens for takeboarding illness, so it
can be very very challenging. I think sort of key
principles is doxy cycling for his first line treatments and
pets as well. Yeah, and of course treating coinfection, and
then prophylactic doxycycling can be considered, you know, for if.
Speaker 1: You're going hiking the app Lachian Trail, for instance, you
might talk to your provider about that, and that's somewhe controversial,
but we always want to look at what are the
side effects if we're taking something prophylactically versus the potential benefit,
So definitely talk to your provider about those. Any last
words before we take a break and move on to prevention.
Speaker 2: No, I think this is just an opportune time to
start talking about tick more and illness, and as people
are getting going hiking and spending time in their yards
and playing with their children. Just keep this in mind,
a type symptom so a tic check their YouTube videos.
But cracks and crevice inspection for ticks definitely after you've
been outside. And ticks can actually be kind of neighborhood
to neighborhood in the suburbs. So if your neighborhood has
a lot of ticks, then you really need to keep
an eye out and do tick screening. You know, the
hunting cracks and crevices very often. So Okay, we're going
to take a quick break, and then when we come back,
we're going to talk about preventing tick bites and insect bites.
And actually, I think the veterinary world is a little
bit ahead of the human world. We have much safer,
less toxic options, but they're working their way into the humans.
Speaker 1: And then we'll take another break and then finally the
legit or bullshit segment. So hang in there and come
right back. All right, we're back. I hope you're stuck
with us after that break. How do you survive the break,
doctor Miller? I survived. I'm still in all right. That's
a good thing. So preventing is really what we want
to do with all of the insects. We talked about,
the salivas and anticoagulant, and all of the infectious organisms
kind of travel with the saliva and the gastric juices.
And so if we can prevent the bites or at
least the transfer of the spit the saliva, then we're
way ahead of the grame rather than having to treat
the disease and diagnose it. So in human medicine, my
understanding is that they use a lot of things like
deep and unthrids, those kinds of things. Uh, any other
kind of common preventions Steven.
Speaker 2: No, The most common thing, clearly is tick checks. And
I always used to laugh at all the theories and
and thinks the things of pulling the tick off.
Speaker 3: So that don't squeeze.
Speaker 1: Thing actually kind of makes sense because if you squeeze
on the body of the tick, you're actually squirting all
of the stomach content into the skin, and you don't
really want to do that.
Speaker 2: At least fill me what, yes, wisdom.
Speaker 1: They make little like button size uh devices that have
like a little divot or uh check uh cut out
of the side and you can kind of scoop that
under the tick and then lift it off. Those are
readily available and they're almost disposable, very easy.
Speaker 3: You can use some tweezers.
Speaker 1: You don't really want to use your fingers because our
fingers are too big, and then you're getting exposed to
all of the juices and stuff. So you do want
to try to lift the tick off. Kind of doing
these things with burning the tick probably not really a
good idea. Sometimes you can put some oil or something
and the tick will back out on their own because
they can't breathe very well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but repellents are definitely good. Interestingly, all of the
repellents date pyrethrins. Permethrons are relatively toxic, and there was
a big issue during the Iraq War about exposure to
permethrins combined with deet to avoid sandflies and other biding
insects and the transmission of leshmaniasis and all sorts of
nasty insects transmitted diseases. In veterinary medicine, we actually have
this class of compounds called isoxazylins, and this is relatively new,
probably the last five to six years, maybe a little
bit longer than that, and the FDA has done us
a really nice job in the last ten years, so
that they tend to name compounds with the same ending
in the same class of compounds. So all of these
isoxazyling group of drugs end in Lanner, and so we
have Flora Lanner, A Foxolanner, Sora Lanner. The human drug
that just came out is LOADI Lanner, and so we
can kind of know that they're in this family. And
what's amazing about these compounds is that you take them orally.
And that sounds okay, well, I'm going to take an
oral pesticide to kill the insects. That doesn't sound like
a really good idea, but they're so incredibly specific for
the insect the ticks and mosquitoes and sandflies, that they
pass right through the mammal's body and only affect the insect.
And then the other really cool mat trick that they
do is that they're so incredibly potent and fast acting
that they actually paralyze the salivary pumps of the insect
so that the insect can't inject enough spit or saliva
to cause allergic reactions or transmit these tick born diseases
or racketsial diseases. So the products that we have in
ventory medicine for now at least five years or things
like Simperica is my favorite, regular full strength Symperica, not
the all in one Symperica. Trio Prevecto is another one
every ninety days, there's Credilio.
Speaker 2: And I think it's important that our alreadience understand that
these are veterinary medicine myths, right, These correct for human consumption.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 1: But what's amazing with these is that they work so
well at preventing tickboarn diseases and animals that they've actually
been investigated in humans. So there is a human loading
lander and it goes by XDEMV and it's actually FDA
approved for the treatment of demod x blephritis, probably also
helpful for roseatia. So talk to your provider about the
possibility of these. But the interesting thing again, it passes
through the mammal so even though we're giving a neurotoxin,
they work by interacting with the GABA channels that the
incidence of neurologic symptoms is less than one percent over
millions and millions of doses in dogs and cats. So
the human data is new enough and they don't have
millions of doses yet, But they seem to almost have
zero effect on mammals, and that's in comparison to the
promethans or like ivermectin that at the dose to kill
demod x like this human x DEMV product, the dose
that we would need for demodex ivermectin has about a
thirty percent neurologic side effect toxicity incidents, So thirty percent
of neurologic symptoms compared to these isox as elings that
have less than one percent. And then this also brings up, well,
if we can prevent the transmission of lime disease, and
that's been documented in dogs with these compounds, what about
malaria and mosquitoes and so it's actually being explored in
humans for the prevention of malaria and even insect population control.
So if we know that with dogs in the neighborhood,
if they're all on these products, you can actually decrease
the population of ticks or biting insects because the dogs
act as a reservoir sink to eliminate a huge percentage
of the insect population.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think to making sure that the audience,
our listeners understand not to overreact to tick bite. So
there are three criterion that are used for high risk
tick bites and those are what's used for guidance as
far as treatment with doxycycling. So that buy was front.
There were three criterion. One is that it was the
bite was from an identified suck exodise exit ez er
back legged deer tick is better with species. And then
number two if it occurly, if it occurred in a
highly endemic area for lime disease. And then number three
if it was attached for more than thirty six hours.
Speaker 1: So that's the twenty four hours is the big criteria
and that's why the tick checks are so important. That
if you get the tick off of the body human, dog,
cat within twenty four hours, the transmission rate is pretty
close to zero.
Speaker 2: Not but how does like the common person out there
know if it was from a black legged deer tick?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can actually nowadays you can collect the
tick again if you're careful and don't burn it with
a match another reason, and then you can have Google
identify it. But another tick is the lone star tick
which has like a little white dot on the back,
and you can always call your agriculture department, even your
local veterinarian probably not human providers. They don't know much
about parasitology, but veterinarians know kind of what ticks are
in the area. And then definitely the agriculture department knows
exactly what species of ticks are where, and then the
incidence of lime disease like up in New England, you
would know that you're in a hotspot kind of area.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll have to look and see if there's
some I'm sure there's an AI method for taking a
picture of a tick and uploading.
Speaker 3: Yeah, by the plant out that I take pictures of plants, and.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's important for people to remember
if if the tick bite doesn't involve these high risk criterion,
it's more of a watch and weight approach. But always, always, always,
if you're having symptoms, seek the care, because seek care.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk provider works. We love you, but we're not
your doctors. Talk to your provider. They're the expert on
your care. Okay, we're going to take a break and
when we come back, we're going to do a legit
or bullshit segment, So stick with us. Hopefully we'll have
some laughs and learn some things about some weird scientific information.
See you on the other side. All right, welcome back.
We are in the legit or bullshit section of this.
Are you ready, Doc Miller or care Captain? I was
born ready. All right, here we go. So this is
going to be short and quick. That all the questions
are related. So the first one, I picked this because
I was intrigued by it because I don't I'm not
sure about this in the veterinary world, so I wanted
to get some information on the human side. So, do
can antibiotic therapy change your mood or depression anxiety levels
in people taking antibotics like you would for sinus infection
or acne or something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any direct causation, so you would say, late,
that may be a little bit of bullshit.
Speaker 1: Okay, So it turns out it actually does. Antibotics can
statistically change mood as they relate to anxiety, depression, those
kinds of things in humans. And it kind of relates
to serotonin. So what organ in the body produces the
most serotonin? Okay, what organ in the body produces the
most serotonin the brain? Most people would say the brain,
because we take anti serotonin reuptake inhibitors, which are antidepressants is.
Speaker 3: Actually the gut.
Speaker 1: So the gut is you know what, one mile long
or something crazy thirty feet or I don't know the statistic,
but really really a lot of your abdominal masses tested,
so kind of a lot, just more than your brain.
Speaker 3: And apparently it produces serotonin.
Speaker 1: So then that kind of makes sense how antibiotics would
affect serotonin levels if it's in the gut, because it
affects the microbiome, the leaky gut syndrome in kind of situations.
So you take the antibiotic, your gut microbiome changes, the
serotonin levels change, and it can affect mood.
Speaker 2: I will give you that the microbiome changes do happen
with antibiotics, and certainly I can see there is a
correlation there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I see that in dogs and cats.
So that's why I was curious when I read that.
I was like, you know, I've never asked pet owners
if they think the dog is more or less grumpy.
I've taken a lot of antibiotics I haven't noticed in obvious,
but I've never really thought to pay attention.
Speaker 2: Either it's not in the you know, the product or
whatever to that depression is going to be something that's
a side effect from the medicine. And it's also really
challenging to prove because these most of these people are
on a million other things, right, not a single That's
the reason I'm saying that it might be a little
bit of be a so.
Speaker 1: We'll put a question mark. Okay, So then that kind
of raises the question that if serotonin's in the gut
and all of this microbiome kind of leaky gut syndrome,
what about diseases like Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's can that
be affected by leaky gut and antibotic therapy?
Speaker 2: So specifically connecting antibiotic therapy a symptoms. It's a challenging course.
So there's all manner of confounding variables to that question.
And I'm not I mean, while there may be some
may have some association between leaky gut and Alzheimer's and
this and that and or the progression of it, I
think it's really important to remember that, especially with patients
with MINSHA, that minor changes in medications can cause big
impact because of interactions between the other medicines that they
take and clearance in this and that. So again I'm
not willing to give it one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is I talked to Karen when she
interviewed me the first time in our transition.
Speaker 3: The whole leaky gut thing.
Speaker 1: We definitely know it's a problem, and so we know
that leaki gut changes the microbiome, and then a lot
of the processed foods have a multifiers which increase permeability
of the gut, and then we have inflammation associated with
alterations and gut microbiome, but we don't really know what
to do about it. So taking just random bacteria and probiotics,
we don't really know which ones and what dose and
are they even active if they're not refrigerated, And so
inflammation can definitely make a whole bunch of diseases worse.
And the microbiome and leaki gut is absolutely a huge
source of inflammation. Does it cause Alzheimer's or Parkinson's?
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 1: Maybe it could be a risk factor, but just I
think there at the beginning of asking the questions and
collecting data. So again I don't I think it's legit
to ask the question, and you know, maybe there's some
link and symptom increases if you have leaky gut in inflammation.
But clearly there's not It's a correlation, not a causation
at the time.
Speaker 2: So again just me looking into the resources that it's
not yet defined. So there's not yet good studies to
look at the gut brain access and so I'll stick
with my bullshit. Well, I don't know that I would
say bullshit. I would say nine hundred percent. I might.
Speaker 1: We're investigating one of my students right now when she
when I challenge her with some blood worker unknown in
a case, she says, that's intriguing. So I'd say that
it's intrigued, the concept is intriguing. We need to explore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the definition of no definitive evidence.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So again back to the correlation is not causation, So
you know, always kind of look for biomechanisms and data.
Speaker 3: All right, Well that's it for us. Any last words, Stephen.
Speaker 2: No, I hope you all have a spectacular week and
that you're doing things in life that make you feel
fulfilled and happy.
Speaker 3: Get up and move.
Speaker 2: And yes, again, if you've followed me on my Facebook page,
I am a big proponent of Move Move, Move, and
even if your only form of movement is sitting in
a chair and doing chair aerobics, that's better than not
moving at all.
Speaker 1: Okay, so don't forget to sense questions at ask at
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