Speaker 1: And I remember it kind of caught my attention, and
I had a friend actually at the time. He was
getting into it, and he was trying to argue with me,
and I, like most people, argued against bitcoin, and I
was like, Oh, this is a scam. It's to get
us into a cash lists control drid.
Speaker 2: It is not. And so I thought I.
Speaker 1: Knew what it was from a kind of an overly
conspiratorial perspective. But I'm glad all that happened because it
forced me to look deeper into it to see if
that in fact was the case, and I just every
one of my objections kind of fell the more that
I looked into it.
Speaker 3: I wrote The Bible and Bitcoin for you Bible believing
Christian and in it, I lay out the Biblical basis
for what money is, why our current fiat monetary system
is on godly in how bitcoin is the best and
most viable biblically compliance replacement for government fiat money. There's
even a small group study guide in the back with
additional resources to study with your church small group. Get
it on Amazon or pay with the Bitcoin at the
Bible and Bitcoin dot Com.
Speaker 2: For a discount.
Speaker 3: Welcome to another episode of the Bible and Bitcoin Podcast.
I'm your host, Alan Armstrong aka Pastor Coin and on
today's episode have mister Jay Dyer. Welcome to the show, Jay.
Speaker 2: What's up man? Glad to be here. Thanks for reaching out,
looking forward to conversing with you.
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, I found you debating Muslims and I thought, wow,
I like this guy, and followed you on Twitter and
enjoyed much of your work, and then I saw that
you are a bitcoin proponent. I guess you could say, so,
tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell us a
little bit about yourself, your background, your your beliefs, and
things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I come from the Bible Belt.
Speaker 1: I was raised in Tennessee, grew up part of the
time in California. My dad was in the Navy, so
I was always in the church, so speak from a
young age Baptist Church. Eventually, by the time I was
senior in high school college started studying church history and
that got me more moving in the direction of at
that time Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I was trying to decide
between the two. This was a long time ago. Eventually
ended up in the Orthodox Church, so I defend that
as Christianity. From my advantage point. Yeah, the last say
five years, I think has really kind of picked up
in terms of Muslim debates. That's not something I really
thought I was going to be doing. It just kind
of fell into my lap. Hooked up with the Shimoun
maybe four or five years ago as well. We started
doing a lot of podcasts and interviews and teamed up
on some debates, and so that was a that's its
own kind of sphere of stuff. We've done a lot
of atheist debates. We've done a lot of debates with
other religions and groups. So that's one thing I do.
But I also do a lot of film analysis symbolism.
So I've written a couple of books on Hollywood and
and film symbolism and kind of the messaging that's.
Speaker 2: Going on in movies.
Speaker 1: I've hosted the fourth hour of the Alex Jones Show
for the last four or five years. Every Friday, we
did a TV show based on my book, and then
I cover a lot of other books that you see
behind me. I do a lot of lectures through these
texts to kind of do people's homework for them. So
I call it the Global Elite Book Series, which gives
you an insight into how the elite they themselves think
from their own writing. So we do all of that
as well as some comedy and live events, and you
can find all that at my website, Jaysnalysis dot com.
Speaker 3: Tremendous. I didn't know all that, so I'll have to
go pick up the book and check all that out
and after this interview. So, speaking of Sam Schmun, it's
funny because last year I offered to to tip him
in bitcoin. I said, Sam, offer bitcoin as a as
an option to give, and he literally laughed at me
and insulted my mother and then and then then and
then just kind of ignored me. That's okay, I don't mind.
It's Sam. When he insulted me, I took it as
a as a badge of honor. You know, not everyone
gets insulted by Sam Schmun, So I absolutely don't mind.
Speaker 1: So Sam if I haven't talked to Sam about anything
outside of theology, so I don't know. I have no
idea what he would think about that, but he probably
thinks as you. You know, I'm sure both of us
have had infinite conversations trying to explain this kind of
stuff to people who have so many misconceptions, So he
probably has a misconceptions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: So I started following you and then recently saw you
posting about bitcoin and and and some really some really
good tweets and stuff like that. You've been apparently I did.
I did some homework. I went back in time, and
you've been an outspoken supporter of bitcoin for a while now.
So when did that aha moment come when you were like, Wow,
this bitcoin thing is more than just you know, some
numbers on the screen. You know what contributed to you
publicly coming out and supporting bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the story in brief was in about twenty fourteen fifteen,
I was invited to a kind of a conspiracy alternatemmedia
conference in.
Speaker 2: Texas, and I met some guys that were at.
Speaker 1: The conference who were really cool in Austin, and they
ran a show called The Crypto Show.
Speaker 2: At the time, I had heard a bitcoin because I'd
heard Max Kaiser.
Speaker 1: I used to go on Alex Jones all the time
back in the day, and he would talk about bitcoin.
But I just kind of put it in the back
of my mind. I was like, I don't know what
that is, doesn't mean anything to me. So I'm at
this conference in about twenty fourteen and fifteen somewhere in there,
and these guys were like.
Speaker 2: Hey, get a wallet, I'll give you a couple bitcoin.
And I'm like, I don't let her know what you mean.
I don't know what a wallet is. So I just
didn't take the time to do it.
Speaker 1: And at around that that was around the time that
bitcoin hit maybe one thousand, two thousand, somewhere in there
in that range, and I remember it kind of caught
my attention. And I had a friend actually at the time.
He was getting into it, and he was trying to
argue with me, and I, like most people argue against bitcoin,
and I was like, Oh, this is a scam. It's
to get us into a cash list control grid.
Speaker 2: It's this and that. And so I thought I.
Speaker 1: Knew what it was from a kind of an overly
conspiratorial perspective. But I'm glad all that happened because it
forced me to look deeper into it to see if that,
in fact was the case.
Speaker 2: And I just every one of my objections kind of fell.
Speaker 1: The more that I looked into it. I don't think
it's you know, it's not centralized, it doesn't have a CEO.
It doesn't have a controller, it's not invented by and
run by the CIA and the NSA, and it's not
you know, going to be tracking and tracing everybody in
the world. It's not the more of the Beast, on.
Speaker 2: And on on.
Speaker 1: So all those objections eventually fell, and I decided about
twenty seventeen that I would start buying. I wasn't confident
enough yet to talk about it publicly, because at that
time it was still pretty That was around the time
it hit three or four and twenty seventeen, somewhere early
twenty seventeen, maybe May summer period, and so I wasn't
confident enough, and I was kind of an idiot still
about crypto, and I remember just buying all kinds of
random coins because you know that's.
Speaker 2: Everybody has these phases.
Speaker 1: You think, oh, I'm gonna buy this one and this one,
and they're all gonna this is the next bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Right then you.
Speaker 1: Realize, well, there's not really going to be a next bitcoin, probably, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So by about twenty.
Speaker 1: Nineteen twenty, I got a little more confident.
Speaker 2: I'd read a lot more and studied a lot more.
Speaker 1: I met a girl who was a friend of mine
who had written a book, co written a book on bitcoin.
Speaker 2: Her book was really insightful.
Speaker 1: She actually wrote it from a Christian perspective too, So
when I met somebody who was, you know, believing and
a Bible believing person who also wanted to promote bitcoin,
that was another kind of like, Okay, you could actually
defend this from a Christian perspective, from you know, the
ethics of money, this is.
Speaker 2: Actually ethical money.
Speaker 1: So her book, Julia Toroyanski's book on Bitcoin, is really good.
That was a big game change for me back in
about twenty nineteen. And yeah, it was just kind of
like I think, what happens with most of us is
we just learn more and more and more. The more
you interact with and start stacking bitcoin. Over time, you
get more confident. You realize, just from an investing perspective,
it's not bad. And then we couple that with the
ethics and you realize, you know, this is non you know,
scam money. This is actually the hardest type of money.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Proverbs says to not have deceptive weights and measures for
your interactions. And the more I thought about that verse
and Proverbs, the more I thought this really applies to
the principles behind fair, ethical, objective hard money in terms
of bitcoin. So those are some of the things that
you know, like big things that happened on the way.
And then yeah, like I said about twenty twenty, I
just got more confident about being vocal and public about it,
tweeting about it, started using Twitter more, you know, right.
That was around the time of the you know, COVID crisis.
So yeah, I mean, I think it's just born itself
out now that we have the institutional acceptance that it's
not going away. It's not a scam, it's not backed
by nothing, it's legit.
Speaker 3: I'd love to get your take, if you're willing to
give it on Well, maybe I should word it this way.
If you had a Christian come to you and say, hey, man,
the bitcoin it looks like the mark of the beast.
It smells like the mark of the beast. It's got
to be the market the beast. How do you answer
that question, because that's one question or objection. Rather I
get yeah all too often, and I've done articles, I've
made videos about it. But how would you answer that
question or that objection If a Christian says, dude, it's
the mark of the beast. Can't you see I mean,
you're Jay Dyer, you should see this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard the same objection, and I probably thought
at one time, maybe in twenty fourteen fifteen, maybe it's
something around the same lines. And I think I wrote
a whole article which I had to eventually take down.
Speaker 2: IM so embarrassed about it because I wrote this article.
Speaker 1: It wasn't saying it was the mark of the Beast,
but I was arguing in twenty fourteen fifteen that oh,
this is the cash list grid that.
Speaker 2: They want to put us in and all that.
Speaker 1: And I think the more that I looked at, first
of all, what money is, so I think you have
to do a little more background information. You realize that,
you know, money is a representation of our time and energy,
and it's a way to store and transact through currency
that time and energy and value. So it's ultimately a
kind of a It tended to be a store of value.
That's at least what bitcoin is. And everybody's familiar with gold.
And when I was in various Christian circles back in
my twenties, I was around a lot of Protestants who
were very into ron Paul. They were very into the
gold standard, and so when I started thinking about it
from that perspective, I kind of sold it to a
lot of people as digital gold. When you think about
it that way, I think especially for a lot of
boomers or for a lot of Gen X people who
might not understand that there can be value for things
that are electronic.
Speaker 2: Right. Think about your even a boomer.
Speaker 1: For example, you have an app on your phone where
you do your banking, and you're not actually using physical
cash when you do your banking, but you don't think
of your online banking app.
Speaker 2: As the mark of the beast.
Speaker 1: You don't think of using zell to transfer cash as
the mark of the beast. Right, So when I start
to I usually try to use these kinds of basic
examples about how you know, bitcoin's not really that different
from gold. Gold wasn't the mark of the beast. The
dollar wasn't the mark of the beast. It's a superior
form to those things. And if you look at the
mark of the beast, there's I think some key indicators
that bitcoin just doesn't match up to that, like the.
Speaker 2: Mark of the beast.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, however it comes about, actually has to
be a way to shut down and turn off people
economic abilities if they don't worship the Satanic system or
the Satanic Antichrist or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right, But there's.
Speaker 1: Nothing in bitcoin, the protocol, the way it runs, it's
decentralized node system that would at all.
Speaker 2: Work for that.
Speaker 1: There's a public private ledger system, but it's not even
going to be possible if, for example, let's say the
majority of the world converts to utilizing bitcoin as a
reserve standard or as some kind of medium of exchange standard. Like,
there's not feasibly any way to track everyone's economic you know,
interactions and to quote turn off you know, anybody's and
there's no you know, you're not marked with bitcoin on
your forehead or your hand. It's like there's so many
things about bitcoin that just don't at all match up
and actually would be contrary to.
Speaker 2: You know, the so called market the beast.
Speaker 3: Do you view the mark of the beast as being
a primarily physical or spiritual or a mix like are
you are you? Are you anticipating an actual sort of
physical thing where if you take it then you're marked
or is this you know, like what's your what's your
take on.
Speaker 2: That that's a good question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean I I just had an
interview with my godfather and he published a he's just
published a trilogy commentary on the Book of Revelation by
a famous kind of Anglican guy named James Jordan, and
that commentary makes the very point actually.
Speaker 2: That you're just talking about. That.
Speaker 1: He argues that the mark of the Beast is primarily
something that's spiritual that will essentially for the you know,
angels and demons mark people for you know, which kingdom
they're a part of. So it may not necessarily be
an implant or a microchip or a nano dot or
whatever the possibilities might be. Maybe it's some kind of implant,
microchip or something down the road. I don't know, but
there is a there's a strong case to be made
that it's contrasted to, for example, in the Book of Revelation,
the servants of God who are marked also with the
name of God.
Speaker 2: That's presumably not physical.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna get yahweh tattooed on your forehead, right,
so you're spiritually marked, contrasted to the spiritual marking that
may be the case for the people who accept the
Beast or whatever. So, yeah, you can make a case
that it's not even physical. I don't personally know, but
I think you could make that case.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The way I've understood it is that, you know, after
it seems Revelation thirteen, everything the beast does is the
counterfeit of what the lamb does or did, and so
the mark of the beast is the counterfeit of the
of the mark of the lamb, or the name of
God on the forehead and so forth. So even in
that paradigm, bitcoin can't be that thing, because it seems
like the mark of the beast is anything which would
give allegiance to a godless system for economic gain. That's
what it seems like to me at least. So something
like the COVID vaccine was a type of mark of
the beast because a lot of people were like, hey,
take this shot, or else you can't work, or else
we're kicking you out of the economic system. Here, Essentially,
the COVID vaccine mandates were take this or starve. That
was sort of the the ultimatum. So bitcoin doesn't fit
in anyway you look at it, and it can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, the only parallel I could even loosely see
would be that it's quote cashless. But I mean there's
nothing in the Book of Revelation or you know, other
apocalyptic texts that necessarily demonstrates that this economic control system
has to be non physical, like you said, it could
be spiritual, it could be there's different possibilities.
Speaker 2: But we are basically already.
Speaker 1: Not in a quote cash system, right, So it's like, well,
if the mark of the beast is essentially whatever's quote cashless,
I mean, I just think it makes more sense to say, well,
we're already in a cashless society, so it's like the.
Speaker 2: Most part I mean.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, you know, cash itself is unethical.
Speaker 2: So if anything.
Speaker 1: Was beast like, it would be the fiat theft based system,
because fiat currency is stealing from future generations purchasing power.
Speaker 2: It's a form of theft.
Speaker 1: That's more of a best system than what bitcoin is
and principle ethically.
Speaker 3: Bitcoin Well is a non custodial bitcoin platform in Canada
and the USA that means every single Satoshi you buy
goes straight to your self custody. They offer free withdrawals,
a simple one percent spread, and they have the Bitcoin
Wishing Well where you can win up to a million
satosis by earning points and throwing the coin in the well.
In fact, you get five coin tosses to the Bitcoin
wishing well when you sign up at bitcoin well dot
com slash pastor coin. Yeah, that was gonna be My
next question was Fiat appears to be a lot more
beastly than bitcoin is. So how would you interact with
somebody who is a sort of a normy in this
and just say, hey, man, hey, this is what this
is one of my bet my pet peeves when people
say cash is king, right, I hear this, especially with
maybe the older types who the boomers who went through
COVID and were freedom fighters. They said, no, man, cash
is king. How do you explain to these people that
that physical paper cash is controlled by the same entity
that and they could, you know, they could just sort
of cancel that cash any minute. So how do you
respond to to the Cash's king crowd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, I'm just like you,
I'm tired of that objection. Just think about the Canadian protesters.
They had their bank account accounts off. Now for most people,
they don't have, you know, stacks of dollars like you know, rappers,
and you know, like they don't have big wads of
cash sitting under their bed.
Speaker 2: Maybe a few old generation.
Speaker 1: People do, but for most people the cash means their
bank account and their you know, check card or whatever.
Speaker 2: But the Canadian protesters had all that shut off.
Speaker 1: They got d banked and hence they're in a worse
situation because they believed cash was king when although it
is a little bit of a hassle at this stage
in the world, it is possible to have bitcoin or
perhaps stable pins or something like that if you couldn't
transaction with bitcoin, but you can get apps like BitPay
where you actually can buy groceries, gift cards, et cetera
with crypto right now. So it is technically possible to
live on crypto right now if you're debanked. And already
quite a few people who did get debanked. As that
Mark Andresen, who was talking to Joe Rogan the other day,
he pointed out that a lot of people were already
kind of you know, have been saved. You you can
infer from having various forms of crypto. Obviously, I think
I'm a bigcoin supremacist. I think it's the best. There
might be some uses for stable coins or something like that.
But so maybe you know, in the future, people might
have to you know, if they're forced to sell bigcoin
to survive, you might have to sell it into something
else or buy gift cards or something like that. So
that's possible now, and that's already for people who've been debanked,
like they've already experienced the necessity of these alternate payment
systems and these alternate forms.
Speaker 2: Of currency transactions.
Speaker 1: So that is is a defeater I think for cashus
king again that andresen guy already told Rogan that there's
a secret group that basically tells.
Speaker 2: Companies who to debank. Wow. Yeah, so this was like
that they're Rogan in the other day that was going around.
If you saw it, it's he's some kind of Silicon Valley.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust that dude, But I think what he's
saying is true, because like Alex was debanked multiple times
because some unknown bureaucratic entity basically just said debanked this person,
this person, this person, this person, and down the road
that could be all Christians, right, Christians need to be
debanked because.
Speaker 2: There are hate speech people or whatever.
Speaker 1: So cash is king doesn't work for that reason, just
in terms of the last four years.
Speaker 2: And then cash is not king because cash is based
on fiat.
Speaker 1: It is fiat since the you know, Nixon shot doctrine
of taking us off the goaltender.
Speaker 2: So it's not based on anything.
Speaker 1: It's that's the Keynesian model of you can print forever,
and every fiat currency ever has gone to zero because
it's too much of a temptation for centralized private banking
entities that control the money printer to just keep printing
into oblivion because they can print and sell the fiat
currency to themselves, buy it up through the bonds, treasuries
or whatever, and they can buy up real assets with
the fake money. So once you figure out that it's
a scam, then you realize, oh no, actually cash isn't king.
Cash is like the ultimate scam. I mean the way
cash is now fiat I'm.
Speaker 3: Saying right, right, because bitcoin is technically peer to peer
electronic cash according to the Well and the White paper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly to be to be precise, like the way
that the way that the gold bugs believed about gold
and the fill of reserve, like they ought to be
the most bitcoin right affiliated people, because this is a
better form of gold, and it's based on all the
same principles of what gold at least wanted to and
tried to be.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't necessarily gold's problem. It was a
man problem, right, That temptation to centralize, that temptation to
print more than you have, it's never it's not going away.
And so gold's the vulnerability of gold has been exploited.
It's already out there. You can't put that rabbit back
in the hat. So it's gonna keep happening. That's why
I tell people who are gold bugs, hey, this is
get on the gold standard. Well we'll just end up
on a fiat standard in you know, a couple decades. Again,
it's not fixing the problem. Bitcoin actually fixes the problem.
And speaking of the problem, Donald Trump, Now I'm Canadian,
so I went through the whole truckers thing. I wasn't
I'm not a trucker. I wasn't in Autawa for that,
but I know people who were affected. As a matter
of fact, the woman that I buy my eggs from,
there's a woman. She lives in the county and she
has chickens. We buy eggs, great delicious farm eggs. She
gave twenty five dollars to the truckers and was debanked
for a week. Oh wow, for a twenty five dollar donation.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And I felt bad for her because she couldn't access
her money to buy groceries obviously, and so they had
to start killing some of their chickens just to eat
that week. And so it was absolutely bonkers up here.
And bitcoin was for many people the saving grace they
needed in that time. Yeah, and it opened up, It
opened up bitcoin to a whole new, whole new crowd.
Now you're in America and Donald Trump's talking about this
strategic bitcoin and reserve, he hinted at it. I saw
you were in Nashville. I was there too, would have
been nice to meet up, but I didn't really know
you back then. But so you were there, you saw
the speech. Do you think this is actually gonna happen?
Is this a serious thing or is he just saying
what needs to be said? Uh?
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, politicians oftentimes say what needs to
be said, and then you know you're lucky if they
follow through with half of their or one third of
their promises. So you know, politics is all about compromise.
So I don't know if this will ever actually happen.
But I am optimistic because at least it looks like
he's kind of doing and trying to follow through on
some of the stuff, at least maybe half three fourths
of what he said he's going to do.
Speaker 2: So I think so.
Speaker 1: I think the bill from Senator Loomis, and I remember
her being there. I walked right past her and didn't
realize who she was. I probably would have said something,
but yeah, because I listened to her speech, to her
talk about the bill, and I think.
Speaker 2: That they're going to try.
Speaker 1: For sure, they have, you know, hopefully the votes and
the support, and I think as more corporations pile in,
and now that they've figured out what it is, you
get more and more companies doing what Microsoft mean micro
Strategy has been doing. It's going to be harder to
ignore it and act like this isn't a legitimate thing
and that this isn't real money. So I would that
on hopefully I think they I think there will move
in that direction.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of people in the country
who you know, are still legacy, you know, committed to
what I think is an evil system, that are going
to try everything they can to you know, undermine this,
but no, I think they're going to actually do it.
Speaker 2: People are going to start figuring out.
Speaker 1: That it's actually working against your interest to oppose this right.
Speaker 2: And so if the US.
Speaker 1: Doesn't start doing this, more countries will be like Ol Salvador, Bhutan.
They're going to do it, and they're going to front
run and they're going to have uh, you know, more
bitcoin in the window of open bitcoin for one hundred
thousand versus trying to get into bitcoin when it's five
hundred thousand, when it's a million in five ten years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The Canadian Prime minister literally called the bottom last cycle
when the Conservative candidate was going on bitcoin podcast and
he was being very bitcoin friendly, and then you know,
we hit the bottom and that's when Justin Trudeau said
it was irresponsible for him to recommend bitcoin. That was
the literal sixteen k bottom.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: And then so this is the trading strategy, guys, just
do what do the opposite of what Justin Trudeau says,
you'll and you'll do very very well with bitcoin. He
called the bottom. Yeah, exactly in verse Kramer and verse Trudeau,
and you'll do very well. It's it's really that that easy.
So it's going to be interesting to see how this
plays out if the United States does, even if it's
not a million bitcoin, even if it's two hundred thousand whatever,
it is to see how the other countries of the world, respond,
especially Canada, because I mean, the US is right there
without you or nothing, and so we're gonna have to
pick up the slack as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw the France was discussing there's fully socialist policies
of taxing all bitcoin unrealized gains is what they didn't
pass per se, but they're discussing wanting to do that,
so yeah, I mean, I think what happens is that
these socialist countries that are fully on board with Fabian
socialism and even more than Fabian's just full on marxsist socialism,
like they're gonna suffer and people.
Speaker 2: Will leave, and bitcoin will leave.
Speaker 1: Bitcoin will fly to the places where there is liberty,
and those are the places they are going to prosper.
So again, it's really against your own interests to act
this way.
Speaker 2: But people who are committed to these evil systems like socialism,
like they just double down.
Speaker 1: They always commit to their own self destruction no matter what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that capital will flee quickly. If anything like that
happens in Canada, I'm gone and there's not a chance,
you tweeted on November twenty sixth, A really interesting thing recently,
you said, I've been listening to various boomer financial ex
podcasts and interviews going back a few years to see
why they thought bitcoin was soon going to zero. Most
just repeated MSM fud to sound smart. Many are still
doing this. And here's the thing that caught my attention
this sentence. Here, there's a human psychological reaction here that
is purely religious. Did you elaborate a bit more on
what you meant by that term that purely religious?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that human beings are fundamentally religious beings, meaning.
Speaker 2: That the way they operate about their.
Speaker 1: Attachments and what they believe in and what they like
and love becomes religious for them. Even if you're an
atheist and you don't believe in any God or you know,
transcendent realm or anything like that, you're still going to
have some kind of religious faith commitment to atheism to
you know, your magical big bang worldview that something comes
out of nothing that you know, the mud causes minds
to exist, Like, there's so many magical things going on
in the atheist world view that when you really drill
into it as an example, it's hard to see how
they are not magical thinking beings, even way more so
than Christians.
Speaker 2: Right, So.
Speaker 1: I was noticing the type of attachment that people have
to their positions, even in situations where there's all the
evidence to the contrary. And I think we all know
about this as like you know, cognitive dissonance, you know,
confirmation bias, all these terms that express the same way
that people have religious commitments to things, even if they're irreligious,
or even if their positions are demonstrably false, they'll still
cling to it. And there's a lot of reasons why
people do that. One reason is just pride. People are,
you know, humans are falling, and so therefore their sin
is rooted in pride.
Speaker 2: They don't want to be wrong, They.
Speaker 1: Want to perceive and be he perceived as see themselves
as always correct, geniuses, et cetera. So one thing that
happens with probably you and me and everybody who's gone
through this journey for this stuff is you know, we
get humbled by it. You know, I could have had
two more bitcoin. Had I listen to the dudes in
twenty fourteen and not just assume that, oh, well I
know better than this and that you know, I know
what this is and blah blah blah, I could have
been doing much better. So I'm happy and thankful that
I did, you know, get involved in twenty seventeen. But
if I had been a little more perceptive and pay
more attention and not been arrogant, I probably would have
been doing even better. So we end up really being
our own enemies. And you know, I'm I like to
make jokes. I don't hate boomers. I just make a
lot of Boomer jokes. It's just kind of a shick
I've been doing for like ten years.
Speaker 2: And so bitcoin is just one of those classic.
Speaker 1: Things that I love to kind of prod boomers about
because they're so hardheaded about it. And I thought that
it was just so it was like perfect when I
was looking at YouTube the other day and the algorithm
fed me this video of I think it was like
an old video Peter Shift and then an old video
of Dave Ramsey and like all of the you know,
the boomer commentators, and they were just talking about why
they don't like bitcoin, why it's going to zero? I
went and found that Peter z iihon video where he's
on you Joe Rogan, the famous video where.
Speaker 2: Bitcoin's about to go to zero last year or something,
and of course it's been obviously, but uh.
Speaker 1: And I was watching these interviews and listening to all
their reasonings, and I noticed, like you said, like they
didn't actually put in time and effort to study and
look at it and understand it. They were literally, as
like financial expert men, just repeating what other mainstream media
sources had said against bitcoin, which to me tells me
that's just laziness.
Speaker 2: That's laziness and arrogance. And I'm just going to stick
to my position because.
Speaker 1: Well I'm a successful gold investor and I know my position,
so I can't be wrong, right, which is.
Speaker 2: Again it's just hurting yourself.
Speaker 1: It's the same mindset, ironically as a socialist who in
France just want to steal everybody's money, and even though
they know that's going to like destroy the country, they
just double down and keep doing it.
Speaker 2: So it's a religious commitment.
Speaker 3: When I started getting involved in bitcoin more heavily and
speaking about it, it's not like I was preaching about
it at church, but you know, after church, you talk
to people, you have conversations whatever, And I would bring
up bitcoin. And there was one guy I remember in
particular who was so offended. It was like I offended
his mother mm hm. When I said, hey, maybe fiat
money is the problem, you know, just throwing it out there.
I wasn't being a toxic MAXI just hey, have you
considered maybe fiat money might be might be the actual problem.
And he got really offended when I said, hey, you
need to realize that every dollar is debt, like like
fiat money is a debt system, and the Bible is
not friendly to debt, Like debt is not good. So
if you build a whole system them on debt, yeah,
that can't be good and that can't be ethical, that
can't be consistent with God's words. So and he got
so offended, like I offended his mother. It was the
most bizarre thing. And when I read your tweet, I
was like, oh, that's why, because it's religious, this field
the same conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people also they understand like
in America, for example, the dollar, right, I mean, the
dollar kind of is almost this sort of religious thing.
It's like a mystical sort of thing that everything that
America represents, whether it's you know, space travel and you know,
winning the world wars and liberty and the constitution, Like,
it's also kind of symbolized by the dollar. And so
if you go against the dollar in the mindset of
so many people, you're going against you know, America, and
it's it's weird because the the point is that, no,
it's the elites that have gone against America by destroying
the dollar, you see, So the dollar needs to be rescued,
is actually the point. The only way to rescue the
dollar would be again, like I don't even know if
it could be done, given how big the debt is,
but like to get basically into the federal reserve system
base it on bitcoin is about the only way to
save the dollar if you were to try to save
the dollar. But I don't even know if the dollar
can or could be saved given the.
Speaker 2: Fact that there's always going to be the temptation with.
Speaker 1: The dollar to like you said, run up the money
printer again, or to go off of a hard standard.
I mean, there's nothing that because it's not actually a
bitcoin there's nothing that prevents the dollar from falling back
into the same problems of the dollar, which can't happen
with bitcoin. There's no fiat bitcoins unless you're talking about
some kind of old coins, right, there's no fiat bitcoin. So,
but the dollar can even if it got pegged somehow
or backed up by bitcoin, which I think would be helpful.
It's really the only lifeline for the dollar. But I
also I'm not sure that the dollar needs to be saved,
because it's can just like you said, like go back
to being another fiat scam problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The only way I could ever see this working is
if somehow you programmatically connected each dollar to the bitcoin
and reserve in a decentralized way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then you're asking the government to relinquish all
power over over the money, which is their only business
right that the government is in one business, the money business,
the centralizing controlling of the money. If if you separate
money in state, there essentially is no state. Yeah, because
what else are they going to do at that point?
It's just a free market, like hey, you need to
pay for this service or else you don't get it.
It's not really government it's not really taxation anymore. You're
just paying for service voluntarily, which is ideal. You know,
this is what we want to see, and I think
bitcoin can do that.
Speaker 1: I also heard a good argument too about this in
regards to war. I think it was that Samson mal
Guy was making an argument that war. I mean, obviously
you can have war for reasons other than money. You
could have ethnic, tribal, you know, resource war. Sure, but
a lot of wars are actually, at least in the
modern world, propped up by and funded by fiat money.
So if fiat money was gone, it's not that you
couldn't have war, but a lot of the reasons why.
Speaker 2: We have modern war would be gone.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, there might still be resource wars, but if
we were on a bitcoin standard, it would be a lot.
Speaker 2: Less easy to have war based around Viat dollars.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the wars would certainly become a lot shorter in
duration as nations run out of bitcoin. And then you
got to think, too, is it worth it? This happens
in your personal life, I'm sure it happened on a
national scale too. Once you start saving in bitcoin, you realize,
do I really need that thing? Is it really worth
it to spend my bitcoin on you know, X, y Z,
you actually become more frugal.
Speaker 2: It's save exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a phenomenon that is strange to those on
the outside. But the more the more your money increases
in value, the less you spend on stupid things, you know,
you become a lot less more financially savvy, a lot
more wise and prudent.
Speaker 1: And how you use Why would I want to I
don't want to spend bitcoin right now. If I spend
one thousand dollars in bitcoin right now, and I think
about the fact that you know, in five to seven.
Speaker 2: Years that can be a ten x.
Speaker 1: I'm spending ten thousand dollars of future money on something
that's one thousand dollars now right.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make much sense. The value has to match up.
And I think that those incentives. Bitcoin is re naturalizing
the true incentive of value in people's minds. And it
starts in the mind and it works out into the economy.
So I think we're going to see an interesting next
decade with with how how money operates. As bitcoin infiltrates
trojan horses its way into Wall Street and even into government.
We've already seen it in.
Speaker 1: El Salvador exactly, and I remember some people criticized.
Speaker 2: I remember some criticisms of a few years back where
it was like, well, but you know, this is uh,
it's this.
Speaker 1: Is like money that is international, and so therefore it's
like a globalist type of money because it's not a
nation state money. But the problem is that the nation
state money itself is also still a problem. Yeah, it's
the nation state money allows the state to control the
issuance of money and currency, which allows them to have, like,
like we've been saying that on this ridiculous level of
power that is just too easy and natural for government
and private controlled governments to abuse. And so in other words,
even if we were to say, go back to a
gold standard, and let's say we got rid of the
federal reserve and we went back to a gold standard
and the government issued the money the way a constitution
talks about and not private federals or bank and all
this kind of stuff, like, there's still the temptation to
meddle with finagle the system, go to wars for the
for that go back and issue more notes than there
is actual holdings.
Speaker 2: Because first of all.
Speaker 1: I mean, who actually audits to see that the government
has the goal to back up the dollars? Are we
going to trust aligning government to tell us, oh promise,
we promised, We've got all of you know, it's a
one to one peg one dollar to you know how
much goal. We can't trust them, right, So we're just
back to the It's like we would be going back
to an earlier.
Speaker 2: Version of the problem system.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, let's go back the windows two thousand,
not XP.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like the same bugs are going to
be there, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, gold, here's the thing with when people talk about
globalist money, having a global money is not the problem. Right,
Gold was the global money for a long time.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 3: It wasn't that gold was defective. Gold is just a
it's just the metal. It is what it is. It's
is the money fair, ethical and true? And if it is,
why shouldn't it be global? Of course, every human being
should have access to fair, honest money. So globalism in well,
maybe globalism is the wrong term, but having a money
that all humans can use is not a bad thing
unless it's unfair, unjust measure that that's the real right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people think that the fact that the money is
international it self is what makes it sus bad when
it's not that, it's the misuse of the thing. And
in fact, it precisely ought to be an objective, mathematics based,
protocol based money that can't be inflated and tampered with.
That's why it has to be not a nation state
controlled system.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: There's this meme that goes around the bitcoin circles every
now and then, Jesus with the court of whips in
the temple driving out the money changers. And the parallel
is that if Jesus was walking the earth physically in
his body today, he would be doing the same thing
in the Federal Reserve in Central Banks. Do you think
that's an appropriate parallel. I've heard different takes.
Speaker 1: It's a loose, loosely appropriate parallel, because I mean, in
the context, you know, Jesus is angry over the fact
that what's supposed to be a house of prayer is
being turned into a kind of you know, profiteering operation.
So that's the immediate context, and obviously that you know,
that's what drove him to, you know, clear them out.
But I think the basic principle is there again kind
of going back to proverbs that having unjust measures and
weights and so is a form of theft, and obviously
theft violates the Ten Commandments, so the principle is applicable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, would you this is This is the question that
gets maybe some trouble for me and others who ask it,
but I'd like to ask it to Christians because I
think it's interesting to get their take. Do you think
Jesus would be a bitcoiner or is a bitcoiner since
obviously he's alive.
Speaker 1: I do think that God gives these kinds of gifts
providentially within history, you know. I think if you look
at big advancements in medicine, advancements in technology from Western civilization,
a lot of those come from people who believed in God,
believed in a meaning for universe, believed in you know, health, healing,
doing good things for people. So I think a lot
of those motivations of people within history were because of
belief in God, and I think they were providential gifts
from God.
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1: And I think I did a podcast on this maybe
three or four years ago, that it's like kind of
God money in the sense, I don't know, God is money.
But I mean that it's a gift, I would say,
providentially for humans to have a solution to a problem
that has plagued humans for a long time. It's not
the salvation from all problems, obviously, it's not going to
make all conflicts or wars go away. It's not going
to solve every economic crisis, but it is a basic
solution to man's economic issues, kind of like you know,
if you think about the early days of the spread
of Christianity, you kind of had to have providentially coin
a Greek being spoken by the empire for.
Speaker 2: The message to be able to spread.
Speaker 1: And that was providentially the case because Alexander the Great
and et cetera. So, and it's the same way like
the Internet needed to exist before we could have something
like this. This type of thing wouldn't be possible obviously
without the level of technology that we have. So yeah,
I think it's a it's a providential blessing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I would agree as well. I see you're
wearing a Sotoshi shirt, so maybe the last question I
ask is do you have any theories as to who
he might be. I don't think it's a she. People
say he or she I don't think it's a sheet,
but anyways.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've looked at a lot of these, you know,
claims and the people and this and that over the years,
and I'm not really worried about it.
Speaker 2: I don't have any real theories.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've always kind of thought maybe Max Kaiser,
but nobody thinks this Max Kaiser. But Max was involved
in the inventing a a kind of algorithmic tracking system
for betting on It was called the Hollywood Stock Exchange.
Speaker 2: And he sold it.
Speaker 1: So there's a patent on it, and he always he
would always talk about this patent to kind of talk
about his pedigree, and I was always wondering, well, why
was he always talking about that patent and Petrick Now,
I mean, obviously that's not bitcoin, But what it shows
is that he foresaw a future and when he was
going on Alex back in the day in twenty eleven,
he was always talking about the.
Speaker 2: Future casino goolog where people would be.
Speaker 1: Living out their life on the internet and like buying
and trading fake currencies. I don't think he was talking
about bitcoin. I think he was talking about the imposter versions.
And so I've always thought maybe he might have had
a roll. Maybe so too, she was multiple people in
the community of the cyberpunks or whatever. But no, I
don't have any hard theories. Obviously, I don't think it's
like Craig Wright, but I don't know.
Speaker 3: What do you think it personally? I think it's Adam Back.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought I was gonna say he's probably the
next best content.
Speaker 3: But you know, it is what it is like to me,
it doesn't matter either. The thing is is it took
on a life of its own. Even if Satoshi came
out and sold all his bitcoin today, and I mean
he would be not be incentivized to do so. But
even if he did, I think you see a market
dump and then it recovers. So it really doesn't matter
at this point. I just think it's a fun, fun
little thing to think about. He left some interesting little clues,
you know, October thirty first the white paper, and then
in January whatever he issues the software and stuff. So
the Genesis block. You know, there's all these theories about
is he a Christian? Did he have biblical you know,
did he leave little biblical things along the way. I
don't know, maybe, but regardless, it is what it is,
and I'm glad he's he's anonymous, and it kind of
had to be that way because e cash failed or
e goold I think. I think it's called egold because
it was centralized. The only way a digital currency is
going to survive in this day and age is if
no one knows who made it and it just proliferates
by itself.
Speaker 1: I think it had to be. It had to be
an anonymous beginning for it to work.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So do you have any last words?
Speaker 1: You find people want to check out my stuff? I
have a link for swan bitcoin. If they want to
get started with bitcoin, you can use my link it
so it's in all my videos. You can follow me
on YouTube, Twitter under my name, and if you want to.
Speaker 2: Get my books, you can get him at the shop
at my website.
Speaker 3: Awesome, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate your time.
Until next time, everyone, thanks for watching and grace and peace.
Great chat Man, thank you your family. Your nation in
your world needs strong men. The devil ones men weak,
emasculated and addicted to porn. This is why I designed
the Slaying the Beast course to help men take back
the dominion porn stole from them. This course will help
you discover your identity as God's image, how porn leverages
and twists that against you, and how with God's help
you can turn the tables on the beast and lift free.
There's also access to a discord server where you can
have fellowship with others in the fight. You do not
have to wait any longer to conquer this beast once
and for all. Go to lifegiverchurch dot net to get
started today.