WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:26.199 Hey, folks, welcome back. 2 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:29.960 It's doctor Scott, Doctor Shiloh. Wow. Remember we used to 3 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:34.960 do that, remember that time? Remember this whole special episode 4 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:36.840 is just I wanted to take a moment to tell 5 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:39.560 people why we're really wrapping up the show. And it's 6 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:41.799 because I keep getting alerts that we're almost out of 7 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:44.719 Google storage. So I think that means we have to 8 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:45.719 stop doing this or something. 9 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.320 I told you that's a scam that has nothing to 10 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:49.200 do with reality. 11 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:49.920 Damn it. 12 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:54.520 This dropbox does the same thing, although dropping well also 13 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.039 just go Yeah, we're tired of holding your data for it. 14 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.520 It's all gone by. I hope there was nothing important there. 15 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:04.519 Yeah after eight million reminders. No, just kidding guys, that 16 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:05.920 has nothing to do with it. 17 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:09.519 Yeah, it doesn't. We have had a big weekend so far. 18 00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:12.680 Early this morning at eight am, we were recording our 19 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:15.840 last episode, which ended up being over two hours long. 20 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:19.599 You're welcome, as we do, and it was it really 21 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.079 felt like another day of recording that we've been doing 22 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.560 now for eight years, and whether we're together in person 23 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.040 doing it or doing it remotely like COVID taught us 24 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:35.359 to do. But we want to close this chapter of 25 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:37.719 a book that is still ongoing, but we didn't want 26 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:41.000 to close this chapter without taking an opportunity to say goodbye, 27 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:43.200 and we didn't want it to be in the forensic episode. 28 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.560 We just wanted to say thank you, and really sincere 29 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.079 thank you. I think I sometimes, I always I worry 30 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.439 about people, like God, do people think I'm being an 31 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.200 authentic because I can. I'm sure I can come across 32 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:58.640 as modeling in some of these exaltations about our audience 33 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:02.719 and this experience, but it really it's just amazing, and 34 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:06.560 we wanted to make sure that the goodbye was real 35 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:09.400 and substantial to every single one of you, even the 36 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:11.280 ones that listened to us for a while and got 37 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:13.439 mad at something that we said and went away. We 38 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.639 still think you're amazing. Yeah, I really do. 39 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.240 Yeah, And doing this as a standalone I think is important. 40 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:22.919 And you and I know that goodbyes are hard for 41 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:25.360 people sometimes. How are you with goodbyes? 42 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:31.199 That I'm not good? And I have a better understanding 43 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:33.680 of it now than I did when I was a kid. 44 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:36.400 One of just to dip into the psych part of 45 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.439 it or my clinical makeup is you know, I'm very 46 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:42.439 much scotch Irish and I've always known the saying of 47 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.120 the Irish goodbye, which I used to do a lot. 48 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:49.080 And as much of an out going extrovert as I am, 49 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:52.080 there is a part of me that is a little 50 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.960 bit of an introvert. So maybe I'm an extroverted introvert 51 00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:00.680 and goodbyes, I think as a younger person, we're confusing 52 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:06.240 for me because I didn't know what the expectation was, 53 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:07.919 Like am I doing the right thing? Have I been 54 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.000 a good friend? Has this gone the way it's supposed 55 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.199 to go. There's a lot of questioning myself. Yeah, so 56 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:14.599 that made for uncomfortable. And then on top of it, 57 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:18.439 ADHD does this weird thing to those of us with 58 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:23.680 the diagnosis that I call temporal displacement. It's like a 59 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:26.919 science fiction y term, but it really is, like all 60 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.520 of you are ever present in my mind. Like my 61 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.199 friends that I have not seen since I was a 62 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:36.520 freshman in college or high school, I still think about 63 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:39.159 them and and that's weird because they don't have a 64 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:42.199 relationship with me after thirty years, but I remember those 65 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.639 moments and they're special. And also because of it's just 66 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:49.759 always not been easy to stay in contact. But like 67 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.080 it's just as a live to me moment by moment, 68 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:54.560 and it probably isn't returned on the other side, and 69 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:57.520 that's okay. So that's my very long, woinded way of 70 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.159 saying I am not great, how about you. 71 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:02.879 I think I've come to learn and this is probably 72 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:08.159 not shocking that I am so in getting more education 73 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.759 on loss and bereavement and things like that, I've learned 74 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:14.039 that I'm a practical griever and so I probably don't 75 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.920 show and grieve and sometimes don't feel the way other 76 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.800 people do in those times. And I think sometimes that 77 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:25.519 crosses over to goodbyes, where I'm just like goodbyes are 78 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:27.639 supposed to happen at certain points, whether it's like I'm 79 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:29.279 saying goodbye to someone that I'm going to see again 80 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:30.920 in a few months and I know they're going to 81 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.879 be back, or you know, it's kind of a final goodbye. 82 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.600 In this day and age, I think it just reinforces 83 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:39.519 some of that of I can always kind of contact 84 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:43.519 someone in some way, so I tend to be a 85 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.120 little bit more, I don't know, come off as like 86 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:50.439 nonchalant about it, which doesn't mean I don't care, and 87 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:53.600 it doesn't mean that practical grievers don't care aren't grieving, right, 88 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:56.800 because I'm such a social person and for me, connection 89 00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:01.240 is so important. If I don't have of a lunch 90 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.879 with someone at work lined up to kind of get 91 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:10.160 that little social camaraderie hit for the week, or something 92 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.199 obviously planned like with my family or what have you, 93 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:15.680 I just I need that I love that human back 94 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.560 and forth. So I do care, I'd care deeply. But yeah, 95 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.839 I think I'm a practical goodbyer and irish goodbye, not 96 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:25.879 because it's hard for me, but because like I don't 97 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.079 need to say goodbye. I'll see you guys later anyway. 98 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.439 That's just how I am. But yeah, goodbyes can be 99 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.040 hard or awkward for folks. I mean, you and I 100 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:39.480 have both had clients who ghost that last therapy session 101 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:44.399 because they don't like goodbyes, especially after building a healthy, 102 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:48.079 safe relationship in therapy, sometimes for the very first time. 103 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:50.199 So I thought it would be interesting to just include 104 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.199 just a snippet of a little clinical piece here. But 105 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.920 goodbyes serve a really important psychological role, right. They help 106 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:04.480 us express emotions, define some memories, and mark transitions that 107 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.959 can really bring a nice resolution or closure to different 108 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:09.959 life phases. 109 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.560 I like that I like. Especially, the thing that pops 110 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:18.439 out for me from that quote is mark transitions, because 111 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.639 I think that we're living in a world that doesn't 112 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.160 recognize transitions, especially you know, with the challenges that we 113 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:30.439 have today in the US. Everybody's just grinding. Everybody's just 114 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:36.759 grinding to stay afloat and alive, and that doesn't allow 115 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.759 for transitions. You know, we've talked about Victorian mourning rituals 116 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:44.519 and how I remembered all those years ago we went 117 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:49.839 to Heritage Square Museum and saw that particular Halloween presentation 118 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.839 which was so fascinating, and the opening of Six Feet 119 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:58.639 Under where the mom gets really frustrated with her husband's death. 120 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.920 It's like, why is this so samd Terry put your 121 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.079 hands in the dirt. Put your hands in the dirt 122 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.040 to throw the dirt on the you know, and there's 123 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:07.399 something I mean that seems like dramatic, but at least 124 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:11.480 it's acknowledging loss. Right, So it's going to stay with 125 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:14.519 me that this is marking a transition of something that 126 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:19.279 we worked on together and collaborated on, and we'll continue 127 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:21.560 to create. We'll do something, even if it's let's start 128 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.040 a knitting club. I don't know, let's do it, but 129 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.079 we're going to create. And this is just the transition 130 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.399 of leaving this as a good, solid legacy for people 131 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:35.519 to enjoy and hopefully learn something from. Now, all of 132 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:38.920 that being said, a little bit more psycho education here. 133 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:46.480 As we close. Across various cultures, people create rituals, farewell meals, parties, airports, 134 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:52.000 send offs, and they are transitional mile posts to mark 135 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:56.720 these endings. And shore crot and Ottinger in twenty twenty 136 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:01.040 introduced the idea of a well rounded ending. What a 137 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:05.000 lovely phrase, a well rounded ending, and they describe it 138 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:09.319 as an ending or a goodbye that feels complete and 139 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:14.040 provides closure. And their finding suggests that people experience a 140 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:17.759 well rounded ending when they believe that they did everything 141 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:22.040 they could, fully completed the experience and tied up loose ends. 142 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.600 And I know that's not always possible, but that makes 143 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:26.519 so much sense to be able to do that. 144 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.279 Yeah, it's something to aspire to. I mean, I think 145 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:32.440 in every single situation we certainly can't do all of that, 146 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:36.120 but if you can mark off those things, I would 147 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.559 say that you probably walk away feeling like it was 148 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.639 a very well rounded ending, right, I am. 149 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:46.240 A person who craves resolution at the end of any 150 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.320 type of relationship. And before we start push the record 151 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.720 button today I was talking about, like, there is an 152 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:55.039 ongoing issue in one period of my life that it's 153 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.759 been three years. Where is the resolution for this? Just 154 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.320 give me even if you're going to say no, just 155 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.840 say it and let's all move on. And as a clinician, 156 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:06.519 I see a lot of clients that have to navigate 157 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.120 ridiculous behaviors of ghosting, you know, And I just I 158 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:13.320 think it says something about us that we aren't just 159 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:14.799 going to go okay, that's the end of it. We're 160 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:18.159 gone by by everybody that's supported and helped us do 161 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.759 this thing for so many years. I think about how 162 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.919 I think it's what's the character's name, is it Steve 163 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:25.960 from Blues Clues? 164 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.279 I think so that sounds k It's. 165 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.799 Steve who was just who was a wonderful young actor 166 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.120 that fell into this role and kids and parents fell 167 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.639 in love with him, just like really really fell in 168 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:40.639 love with him and his wonderful, gentle voice and his 169 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.840 kind attention to children, and he made a decision to 170 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.080 leave the show because he was rapidly going bald and 171 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.440 he's like, I think that's weird for me in a 172 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:55.600 kid's show. For me to go bald and a wig 173 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:57.000 is not going to do it, So it's maybe it's 174 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:58.360 this is time for me to go. And then he 175 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.200 went and did other things, and then he came back 176 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.960 as an adult fifteen years later during a really difficult time, 177 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.320 like during COVID, and he did in his Blues Clues voice, 178 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:12.080 he's like, hey, this is a tough time for you guys. 179 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:15.399 And I just remember bawling when he was saying that. 180 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:19.919 It was so sweet. But look, this is a mixed bag. 181 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.120 And oh god, am I gonna have water works? 182 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:27.679 Here we go, here we I'm off, I'm off, but 183 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:29.679 hold on, yep. 184 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:35.320 We're doing this with my best friend. That's just it's amazing. 185 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:40.000 It's just been amazing. And this is this month sixteen 186 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:41.080 years ago that we met. 187 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:46.919 It is god a world away. So today, in between 188 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:50.639 our two recording sessions, I went and got a facial. 189 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:52.679 It's probably the best thing I could have done for 190 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:56.000 myself today. But on my way driving there, I don't 191 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.240 know why, And please nobody analyzed this, like I don't 192 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:00.039 know why this was floating through my head. But I 193 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:02.360 was thinking of the people I have been in love 194 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.240 with in my life, and I was thinking about that 195 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.000 one thought leads to another, and I was like, Oh, 196 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.360 it's gonna be so weird if my kid comes to 197 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:10.759 me one day is like, how do you know you're 198 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:13.320 in love? And don't worry, I'm not going to profess 199 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.759 my love to you, Scott. But you know, you can 200 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:19.200 have great loves in your life and they last for 201 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:22.519 as long as they're supposed to last. And I've always 202 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:27.159 felt that way. And sometimes when you realize that the 203 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:31.840 effort or the energy isn't the same or you'd rather 204 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.759 be putting that into something else, that's kind of those 205 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:39.720 markers to know when maybe that is. And I then 206 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:42.720 started thinking, you know, I've had and because of today 207 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.639 and the recording that we're doing, thinking about the ending 208 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:50.759 and how I've had great loves or passion projects in 209 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.639 my life and things that I've done and accomplished, And 210 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.000 to me, that's an incredible driver, right, like a sense 211 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:01.799 of accomplishment, whether it was the academy through that grad school. 212 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:05.879 But I consider this podcast is one of my great 213 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.200 loves and passion projects and it's the only one that 214 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.080 I have that I got to do with somebody else, 215 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:14.480 Like every other accomplishment in my life has been me 216 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:18.799 and my drive, and it's something that when I describe 217 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.720 this what we have done, that I always lead with 218 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.039 that I got to do this with you, and that's 219 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.279 hands down the most special part of it. So, yeah, 220 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:35.000 you are one of my great loves. Oh man, So 221 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:38.360 look here I am. Thanks for letting me ramble my 222 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:39.159 story today. 223 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:43.159 Now it's really beautiful, and it's like it is again. 224 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:45.559 It's so strange to think that this is not the 225 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.720 end of us. It's the end of this particular thing. 226 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:51.559 But it's been such a big deal, and these are 227 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.399 escalated times in the world, and you know, we've had 228 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:57.799 some hard discussions. I did want to share with people something. 229 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.679 There's so many amazing things about you and your family 230 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.519 welcoming Dan and I in in such a wonderful way. 231 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:10.480 But we've also, while we've been doing this, have gone 232 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:16.480 through some unbelievably challenging times. And without one of you 233 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.600 you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. But the one 234 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.720 where we had a shared relationship with an individual who 235 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:27.600 was not who we thought they were, Yeah, was like 236 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:31.720 something out of a movie. It felt like that last 237 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:35.559 scene of Gone Girl where everybody is sitting in the 238 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:39.919 living room and they all know what happened and they 239 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.080 know that it's like all the stories are coming together 240 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.879 and everybody is just so astounded. And you and I 241 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.240 have not only did you and I have that moment, 242 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:53.799 but you did something that is so typical Shiloh. I 243 00:13:53.960 --> 00:14:00.519 was flagellating myself over guilt of not being able to 244 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:04.200 preserve this relationship, like if I did this, I should 245 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.440 have done and you in front, and it was you 246 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:13.240 and me and several other people, and it cut weirdly uncomfortable, 247 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.480 and you handled it like a pro and you looked 248 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.240 over at me and said, you need to understand, Scott, 249 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.279 that this person is not who you think they are. 250 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.720 And then I was stunned with that information. But anyway, 251 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.279 so without going into any of the details, it let 252 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.360 me off the hook in a way that I never 253 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:36.759 would have known, like the burden that I was carrying 254 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.679 with that. But again, there's just this nature you have 255 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:43.240 of being so stalwart you know, I mean, I don't know. 256 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.879 I mean. It's also funny. The first time I ever 257 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:46.960 met your mom, your mom is such a riot. She 258 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.519 goes I hope you'll pull that stick out of her ass. 259 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:54.320 And I was like, don't you talk about my my girlfriend, right, 260 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.360 don't you talk about her, save. 261 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:59.159 My life, internship, What are you talking about? She's exactly 262 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:00.799 who I want around. 263 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.559 Me, exactly. You keep that stick right up your ass, lady. 264 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:05.440 It's working for you, lady. 265 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:06.879 It's totally work for you. 266 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:08.360 Oh that's so sweet. 267 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:10.000 But the other part of this is that I've talked 268 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.919 about with you too, is that so many kids of 269 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:17.240 my generation, being a gay kid growing up in Alabama 270 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:20.600 in a time where that was just not a thing, 271 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.240 you carry a lot of baggage with you that is 272 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:27.320 about code switching and performative emotional access in order to 273 00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.679 navigate the world around you. And I have wonderful friends 274 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:32.759 who are my same age and went through exactly the 275 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.440 same upbringing. They don't have this baggage at all. But 276 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.000 I do love that. I think. I remember one time, 277 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:40.919 and I wasn't fishing for a compliment, but I was 278 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:42.919 like looking at you and Anthony's la and I said, 279 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:48.000 I don't understand why you guys like me, Like what really? Like, 280 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:51.320 aren't I kind of annoying? And you were like, what 281 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:53.360 the fuck? Are you talking about? It was like, this 282 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.679 is the weirdest you know, for this guy who's almost 283 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.200 a generation older than you. And yeah, but for all 284 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:01.720 the things that we have in common, and there is 285 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:06.960 a spark that I've never had with any other friendship. 286 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:12.960 There is a spark of excitement. And I've had like wonderful, wonderful, 287 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:16.440 fulfilling friendships over the years. But like you hit all 288 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:20.200 the angles, like the passion about research, the passion about 289 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:25.559 weird shit, the passion for doing good in the world 290 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.120 and having a sense of purpose. 291 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.559 It's just talking shit, Struth when we need to. 292 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.480 I know you will. You see, here's the thing, you say, 293 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.960 you are so lightweight of a shit talker than I am. 294 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:41.320 You're so good, but you put up with which all 295 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:41.519 of it. 296 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.679 But I do appreciate it. That's so funny. Well, thank 297 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:48.519 you for saying that. And I'm probably going to be 298 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.799 on another podcast pretty soon coming up, and I'll let 299 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.200 you guys know about it through Patreon. But it's focused 300 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.000 on mental health and support for that community in law enforcement, 301 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.320 and so we're going to do an episode on mental health, 302 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:04.599 but they decided we want to do an episode on 303 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.759 allyship as well, and so it has me kind of 304 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.319 like thinking about all the experiences in my life and 305 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.480 you'll certainly be a huge part of kind of my 306 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.119 story of how to be a good ally and just 307 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.119 the impact that you've had on me in that sense. 308 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:20.839 Even at the time in my life where I met you, 309 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.400 it was like I could always do better and I 310 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.720 can always learn how to incorporate that into my life 311 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.359 on a conscious level. So you'll get some shout outs 312 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:31.480 and some love on that all that comes out too, 313 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.559 But thank you because that's enriched my life in my 314 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:37.400 family's life as well. Should we get on with like 315 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:38.200 think you yeah. 316 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.440 Yeah, now that I've like, now that I've reconstituted. 317 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.720 Good we got all that out. 318 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.440 Thank God again. Now the project has been more than 319 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.960 we could ever imagined or asked for, and in ways 320 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:55.200 that are completely unexpected. And we absolutely could not have 321 00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:00.000 done this without this incredible intersection of so many people 322 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.960 people coming into our lives. 323 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.359 It's amazing, it is And I hate when people are 324 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:09.279 doing thank yous and they say like, I can't possibly 325 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.000 thank everyone, But now I kind of understand that because 326 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:16.000 we'd be here all day and there are so many 327 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.000 of you that have touched us in ways that we 328 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:21.240 can only hope that we took the time to tell 329 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.240 you in that moment or showed our appreciation in some way. 330 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.799 But yeah, here we go. So first on the list 331 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.839 we have Tim and Lance. It was such an honor 332 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.799 to be invited into the crawl Space network and family 333 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.720 all the way back in twenty nineteen. From that first 334 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.640 moment up until now, we are just blown away by 335 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:45.599 the caliber of your reputations and have truly found you 336 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.799 guys to be two of the most genuine and goofy 337 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:50.920 people in this industry. 338 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:51.599 And so authentic. 339 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:56.480 So aes love you more for that, and we have 340 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.839 been through some wonderful and strange experiences together. Yeah, so 341 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.000 that has bonded us, and you guys are like our 342 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:05.359 foundation when we look back. 343 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.519 Yeah yeah, foundation is a good word. But again, I 344 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.400 think that this is going to be the common thread 345 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.920 among this list of people is just we absolutely are 346 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.279 magnetically attracted to authentic people that are real and we've 347 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.759 met some. You know, you think in the true crime 348 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.759 community you're going to meet authentic people, and you really do. 349 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:28.119 You just beat wonderful people. Tammy and Bryce from Hollyweird 350 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:32.039 Paranormal who are our dupar besties. Dupars is like a 351 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.279 classic old diner here in LA And the first time 352 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.119 we met them we were like scarfing down pancakes and 353 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.039 laughing wildly with each other. It was like these we 354 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:44.240 had known them all our lives. The world is truly 355 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.160 better with both of you in it, and we're so 356 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.319 lucky to know you do amazing humans, you really are 357 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.880 and continue to astound us after all these times. Bryce 358 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:56.799 is a producer, Tammy is a producer. They're both doing 359 00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.839 amazing things and you'll be hearing more from them as well. 360 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:05.400 Absolutely, Beck's of course the queen of it all. Trivia 361 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:10.160 branding and of course interviewing dialogue is still I swear, 362 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:12.640 some of the best true crime content in this space. 363 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:17.519 We are always admiring the curiosity that you have brought, 364 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:22.519 and you know, really through some times that have crossed 365 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:27.720 over into some very uncomfortable issues, and nobody has approached 366 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:31.880 that with more grace than you have. And clearly you're 367 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:34.480 such a dear, dear friend to the both of us. 368 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:40.119 But your talents just deserve to be praised. I Scott 369 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.759 knows that behind the couch wasn't always my favorite thing 370 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.519 because I'm so nervous when I'm interviewing people, and I 371 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.880 think it always turns out horrible in my mind, and 372 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:50.599 I just always I'm like, why can't I be like 373 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.160 Rebecca Sebastian. 374 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.839 I mean, it's funny to hear you feeling so non 375 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.039 secure about that because from a collaborator perspective, and you 376 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.799 your perspective, it comes very naturally to you. Your flow 377 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.279 is great, and you're so interested in people, Like I 378 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.119 think that's something else that we share. We just like 379 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.920 are fascinated by people, which it makes perfect to do 380 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.680 this kind of content. Caz. She is the CAZ and 381 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:20.519 probably the most logical critical thinker in our group, which 382 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.079 is really needed. Like and as an attorney with a 383 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.920 law background, you're amazing, Like can really pull us back 384 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.319 the reality sometimes when we are just untethered. She just 385 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.240 has the magic to bring our text thread that needs 386 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:36.240 to be a movie in itself, that text thread needs 387 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.759 to be a full feature linked film. She always brings 388 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.960 us back to center and somehow we found the one 389 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:47.119 person with a dryer with an iron link. She hurt 390 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:58.160 sarcasm and sly retorts just they're like through a it's 391 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:01.039 like I remember the first, she pulled what I mean, 392 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:03.000 I was so taken it back. I had said something 393 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.640 and she texted me she goes weird flex but okay. 394 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.200 Perfect. 395 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.599 On the other I felt that, I was like, oh wow, 396 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.920 I got smacked with that. We love you, Kaz. 397 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.720 Yes, and thank you for always lending your legal mind 398 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.279 when it's been needed, not just to us, but to 399 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:21.519 so many other creators. 400 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:21.960 Yeah. 401 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.599