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<v Speaker 1>Welcome the More Outdoors on News Top five sixty klv I.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Chester Moore. If you've listened to this program

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<v Speaker 1>for more than probably a month or six weeks, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that I love wild turkeys are a very important animal.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe to our forest in North America. As I've

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<v Speaker 1>said before, as turkeys go so to America's forest. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Texas is really an awesome, unique turkey state.

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<v Speaker 1>And to talk about this, I got the best person

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<v Speaker 1>on the planet talk about turkeys in Texas. I got

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Harden. He is a Texas Parks and Wildlife Department

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<v Speaker 1>turkey program coordinator. Welcome the More Outdoors.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Chester, You're great, appreciate you having me.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Texas is a huge state, but we've got

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<v Speaker 1>a really big turkey population, and just the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the audience and maybe doesn't know a lot about wild turkeys.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I give just a basic overview of turkeys in

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<v Speaker 1>the state of Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, So I'll start out in a little broader if

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<v Speaker 2>you go nationwide, we only have one species of turkey

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<v Speaker 2>in North American that's the North American wild turkey, but

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<v Speaker 2>there are five subspecies across the state, across the country,

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<v Speaker 2>and we had three of those here in Texas. Across

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<v Speaker 2>the nation, the eastern wild turkey is king. There's more

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<v Speaker 2>Eastern wad turkeys than any other subspecies, but in Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>the Rio Grand wild turkey rank the frame. We have

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<v Speaker 2>about a half million Rio Grand wild turkeys in the

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<v Speaker 2>state of Texas. It's a destination state for folks looking

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<v Speaker 2>to get their Grand Slam, and we get a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of folks coming from out of state to hunt those birds,

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<v Speaker 2>and a fair amount of harvest here in from our

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<v Speaker 2>resident hunters as well. Probably the second most populated in

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<v Speaker 2>Texas would be that Eastern wild turkey, but they're far behind,

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<v Speaker 2>probably on about ten thousands of those birds in East Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>and then just a handful of the Mirriams wild turkey,

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<v Speaker 2>the birds that you'd normally find across the Rocky Mountains

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<v Speaker 2>we were Historically their southern end of their range was

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<v Speaker 2>the Guadalupe Mountains right just on the edge of New

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<v Speaker 2>Mexico and Texas. We did some restoration in the early

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties and the Davis Mountains and those birds did

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<v Speaker 2>really well for a long time, but the success of

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<v Speaker 2>the Rio Grand water at the same time kind of

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<v Speaker 2>was the end of that bird just through hybridization. So

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<v Speaker 2>now in the Davis Mountains we probably had more what

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<v Speaker 2>I like to call you know that hierburd mirios, So

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<v Speaker 2>Miriam's innerbred with rios, and that's what we have out

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<v Speaker 2>in that area now. But we've been pretty successful in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>Got a lot of different habitat types and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of different subspecies for our hunters and our general public

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<v Speaker 2>to enjoy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for those who are listening from East Texas right,

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<v Speaker 1>this is coming out of the Beaumont Station. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we got birds in Newton County and all these areas,

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<v Speaker 1>some restored some native population. But I'd like to start

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<v Speaker 1>more with the Rio gram because that's that's when you

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<v Speaker 1>think Turkey's in Texas. That's pretty much the one people

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<v Speaker 1>have seen. So kind of where does their rain start?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, where does it start an end in Texas?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, So if you look the Grand Turkey, we get

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<v Speaker 2>up around Grayson County. So if you go due north

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<v Speaker 2>out of out of DFW A Highway seventy five, that's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of that demarcation zone. And we see some hybridization

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<v Speaker 2>between the eastern and the rio there in Grayson County

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<v Speaker 2>and just imagine a straight line going down to Wharton County.

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<v Speaker 2>We had some historic hybridization that occurred there as well,

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<v Speaker 2>So everything kind of that that line west is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be rios all the way out to the Pacas River,

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<v Speaker 2>and it bleeds over a little bit here and there

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<v Speaker 2>across that line. A few birds west of the Pacas

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<v Speaker 2>River out in the Transpacas, a few rios east of

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<v Speaker 2>that line in the black Land Prairie over going towards

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<v Speaker 2>the Triney River. But for the most part, you would

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<v Speaker 2>think about that I thirty five corridor west of the

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<v Speaker 2>Pacas River all the way down to the Valley of

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<v Speaker 2>South Texas and all the way up to Oklahoma and

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<v Speaker 2>pretty close to New Mexico line.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you know, Rio granz are a beautiful bird.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, it's interesting though there are some gaps

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<v Speaker 1>like well you will hardly see turkeys in the range,

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<v Speaker 1>and then some areas in Rio grand seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>like infested with them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, So one thing that's really interesting about the

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<v Speaker 2>Rial Grandville trees and all turkeys, you know, they need

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<v Speaker 2>to have roosting habitat not an issue in East Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>You get east about thirty five plenty of trees, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five feet tall and up to one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty feet tall out in your area of South Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>But you get out in the rolling plane, you get

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<v Speaker 2>out in the western part of the hill country or

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<v Speaker 2>in South Texas, and roosting habitat becomes really limited. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't have those fingers of rock Aian habitats,

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<v Speaker 2>those creeks, the rivers, even the small streams that had

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<v Speaker 2>the big trees right next to them, and that might

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<v Speaker 2>be Hottonwoods, it might be small Hackberry or the countries,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever it is, depending on where you're at in that landscape.

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<v Speaker 2>If you don't have those trees, you don't have turkeys.

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<v Speaker 2>If they don't have a place to rest at not

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<v Speaker 2>then you're not gonna have those birds. So you'll go

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<v Speaker 2>through an area, say the soft Flour up in the

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<v Speaker 2>rolling Plain, soft Fork in the Red River, turkey's everywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you get ten miles away and nothing, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're really tied to those Rypraian habitats. You go down

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<v Speaker 2>to South Texas, Brooks County, Enterity County, that area you

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<v Speaker 2>see a lot of that. They would call that the

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<v Speaker 2>coastal standsheet and there's a lot of live oak motts

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<v Speaker 2>out there, and turkeys are just everywhere, But you get

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<v Speaker 2>a few miles away from those oak monts, you won't

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<v Speaker 2>see them anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. That's really interesting because this comes back to

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<v Speaker 1>like a habitat conservation issue. And you know, I think

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<v Speaker 1>most land owners in Texas are probably tuned into, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>livestock first. It's a big money maker, it's a traditional

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<v Speaker 1>Texas thing, and livestock can work really well with wildlife.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you got the guys that are definitely tuned

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<v Speaker 1>into wildlife and white tail deer. But do you think

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<v Speaker 1>there's maybe some room for some of these guys to

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<v Speaker 1>maybe do a few things that could tweak and help

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<v Speaker 1>turkey habitat.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, no matter where you're at in the state. If

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<v Speaker 2>that's managing pine forests out in East Texas, are managing

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<v Speaker 2>cattle out in the rolling Plains or South Texas, there

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<v Speaker 2>are all kinds of opportunities to manage for wild turkey.

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<v Speaker 2>That might be timber management, just regular timber thinning, prescribe

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<v Speaker 2>fires phenomenal in East Texas, or if you go out

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<v Speaker 2>to that rangeland country, just rotating cattle. Turkeys can live

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<v Speaker 2>just fine on a heavily grazed pasture. But that's those

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<v Speaker 2>mature birds. Whenever you have a hen sitting on a

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<v Speaker 2>nest for twenty eight days, she's going to lay an

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<v Speaker 2>egg a day, about twelve on average, and she's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>sit on that nest when she lays that last egg

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty eight days. So imagine that first eggs on

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<v Speaker 2>the ground for forty days. That's a long time for

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<v Speaker 2>an egg to survive, and we see a lot of failure.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you have an area that has some tall

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<v Speaker 2>grasses and weeds with some low growing woody cover, that's

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<v Speaker 2>going to provide phenomenal nesting cover. And that's what those

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<v Speaker 2>birds need, and you can do that through rotational grazing.

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<v Speaker 2>Once those birds hatch, there's a pasture not too far

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<v Speaker 2>away that's been grazed a little heavier, maybe it's a

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<v Speaker 2>few more weeks, it's going to provide a good brewed habitat.

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<v Speaker 2>There's lots of opportunities out there no matter where you're

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<v Speaker 2>at the state try to improve your habitat for wild turkeys,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's plenty of people out there with the knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>to help guide you along your way till you get

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<v Speaker 2>comfortable with those practices.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you kind of segued right in the world and

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it's about what's happening this time of year.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's turkey season across some of the state.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we have the eastern turkey season in some

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<v Speaker 1>Pine Woods County is coming up. But this is the

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<v Speaker 1>time of year birds are breeding. So let's talk about

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<v Speaker 1>that breeding period. So kind of when does it start

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<v Speaker 1>in Texas and wind does it end, and when when

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<v Speaker 1>we start maybe seeing polts, for example, maybe in the

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<v Speaker 1>Texas hill country.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, so whenever you look across Texas, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the breeding is going to be keyed in by daylight hours.

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<v Speaker 2>But once we start hitting about that twelve twelve where

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<v Speaker 2>we're at right now, twelve hours of daylight twelve hours

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<v Speaker 2>of dark, there's some there's some queues right out there

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<v Speaker 2>that's gonna make those birds start switching up into more

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<v Speaker 2>of a bringing behavior. See the flocks start to break up,

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<v Speaker 2>You're gonna see the gobblers and Jake's getting separate from

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<v Speaker 2>those hens, uh, and they're gonna start doing their thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Hens are gonna start breaking up from their flocks looking

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<v Speaker 2>for gobblers to breathe. So that's that's the approach to

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<v Speaker 2>this time of year. Now in Texas, we're really heavily

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<v Speaker 2>influenced by weather. And if you look at what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on across South Texas, the hill country, the rolling plains

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<v Speaker 2>right now, we're burning up figuratively and literally. We high wind,

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<v Speaker 2>low humidities, a lack of rainfall. That's a big impact.

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<v Speaker 2>I was down in South Texas hunging this past weekend

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<v Speaker 2>with my twelve year old son, and there's the breggest

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<v Speaker 2>pasture or the Fregas fire that just get burned over

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<v Speaker 2>fifty thousand acres uh. And you just go across that country,

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<v Speaker 2>the only thing green is a few mesquites. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I got back to home, I lived Leon County and

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<v Speaker 2>see the green pastures and the green trees. It really

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<v Speaker 2>made me feel uplifted to be in that green area.

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<v Speaker 2>And I really feel like those birds are kind of

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<v Speaker 2>the same way. You're out in that dry country and

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<v Speaker 2>no greens, no weeds, no very little green grass growing up.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little depressing, and I think, not only for

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<v Speaker 2>my physical condition, those birds not getting the greens to

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<v Speaker 2>put on that fat reserve to help them start developing

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<v Speaker 2>eggs and help them start thinking about breeding, but even

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<v Speaker 2>some visual cues, you know, not having that green on

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<v Speaker 2>the landscape. Like I said, I think it was a

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<v Speaker 2>little depressing to me, and I know I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>the birds feel the same way physically, perhaps mentally. They

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<v Speaker 2>know they're trying to survive and they're kind of staying

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<v Speaker 2>in that winter mode of fine enough to eat, to

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<v Speaker 2>maintain myself. They're not getting those good greens and all

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<v Speaker 2>that extra food that they would normally get if we

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<v Speaker 2>had a wet winter or an early wet spring and

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<v Speaker 2>to getting that good physical condition for reproduction. The males

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<v Speaker 2>they're ready to go, but the hens are not. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's just kind of slowed down the hunting season. So

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<v Speaker 2>I expect that pulp production is going to be delayed

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<v Speaker 2>this year. Hopefully we get from you know, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>a common in Texas twenty eleven, zero reproduction, almost no

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<v Speaker 2>nesting effort. If we could turn it around and we

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<v Speaker 2>start getting some moisture in May in June, we'll get

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of a hatch, but it's not looking good

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<v Speaker 2>right now. All the other inspectrum in East Texas, a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of drier conditions might not be that bad.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have the hens getting wet on the nest.

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<v Speaker 2>That should help them. So hopefully, at least in East Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be going towards a more production and recruitment.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll take a silver lining anytime we can for wild

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<v Speaker 1>turkeys and wildlife. And when we come back, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk more with Jason Hart and Texas Park's a

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<v Speaker 1>Wildlife turkey program director about wild turkey's in Texas. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to Moro Outdoors on News Talk five sixty k

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<v Speaker 1>l v I don't forget. You can listen at KLVI

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. You can also get the iHeartRadio app and listen. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>go to archival sections of this program. We get archives

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<v Speaker 1>going back three years. You can also get that at

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<v Speaker 1>KALVI dot com. Click on the podcast link at the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the page you'll get the More Outdoors podcast

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<v Speaker 1>ere From this live broadcast, we have Jason Harden, Texas

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<v Speaker 1>Parks and Wildlife Departments turkey program leader, and we've been

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<v Speaker 1>talking about all things turkey in Texas and we kind

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<v Speaker 1>of ended there talking about might be a rough season

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<v Speaker 1>and part of the state because of the fires, the

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<v Speaker 1>drought conditions on the ground, but maybe East Texas is

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit better, so that eggs out there in

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<v Speaker 1>the nest. You know, mom's gotta you know, hang around.

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<v Speaker 1>It's got to be good conditions. But I know any

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<v Speaker 1>ground nesting bird has predators to deal with. Can kind

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<v Speaker 1>of talk about predators in the life of turkeys?

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<v Speaker 2>Sure absolutely? I mean dreading through a pub location learner

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<v Speaker 2>today that to friends of mine from LSU and UGA

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<v Speaker 2>put out looking at some of their nesting you know,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two percent nest success. If you think about that,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that is that is really really low. And

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<v Speaker 2>you imagine a turkey trying to sustain itself a population

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<v Speaker 2>from year to year. You've got to make new folks,

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<v Speaker 2>you got to you've got to recruit new birds into

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<v Speaker 2>that system. And historically we you know, based on VHF data,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the backpacks we used put on most birds,

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<v Speaker 2>we would see, well it's about fifty percent. Actually it's

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<v Speaker 2>really low in some years of zero. Some years it

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<v Speaker 2>might be fifty in a really good year. But we're

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<v Speaker 2>seeing that twenty five percent of twenty twenty five percent

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<v Speaker 2>nest success and uh and it's kind of eye opening

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<v Speaker 2>for us, and you realize just how valuable every nest

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<v Speaker 2>out there is to sustaining your turkey population, and not

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of nests are just turkeys. Hens don't just

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<v Speaker 2>get up and walk away and give up on it.

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<v Speaker 2>For the most part, most of those in the es

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<v Speaker 2>are to fill due to predation. And a turkey is

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<v Speaker 2>going to walk around the landscape and she's coming up,

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<v Speaker 2>getting ready to start laying eggs. She's going to find

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<v Speaker 2>a location somewhere to no, she's not going to not nest.

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<v Speaker 2>And if it's send for habitat, that ness is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be more exposed to predators. If it's in quality habitat,

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<v Speaker 2>then she will not have a little better chance. And

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<v Speaker 2>on top of that, you have all that alternative prey

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<v Speaker 2>that's living in that better habitat. Your mice, other ground

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<v Speaker 2>nesting birds, rabbits, things like that. They can be alternative

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<v Speaker 2>prey that allows those hens to be on the landscape

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<v Speaker 2>and sitting on the nest longer. That's the only part

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<v Speaker 2>of a hen's life other than being a pole for

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<v Speaker 2>the annual lifecycle of that bird, that's the only time

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<v Speaker 2>she's going to stay on the ground the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>her life. She's going to be up in a tree

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<v Speaker 2>every night safing predators for those twenty eight days, and

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<v Speaker 2>in some cases that else she's going to do a

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<v Speaker 2>second nest. So every day she sits on that nest,

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<v Speaker 2>the likelihood of her being killed or her eggs being

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<v Speaker 2>depredated goes up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you think twenty something percent. I mean, that's that's low.

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard success rates of pintails when I was working

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<v Speaker 1>on my Texas Waterfowl book here is and go like

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<v Speaker 1>six percent in part of Saskatchewan because of predation, because

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<v Speaker 1>of degraded habitat. And you think about taking a twenty

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<v Speaker 1>two percent nest rate for these birds, you know, kind

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<v Speaker 1>of concerning, especially from the you know idea, we don't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily have in a lot of areas optimal turkey habitat.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that snakes like rat snakes can be a

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<v Speaker 1>predator raccoons, but what are some of the other potential

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<v Speaker 1>predators of the wild turkeys.

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<v Speaker 2>The list is long. I mean it can range from

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you mentioned raccoons, rat snakes, the big nest predators, skunks, awesomes.

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<v Speaker 2>Any of your small mammals are gonna are gonna potentially

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<v Speaker 2>depredate your nests. But even some of the larger ones

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<v Speaker 2>you can see things like coyotes and podcasts, but usually

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<v Speaker 2>we think about those smaller the rackings of possums and skunks,

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<v Speaker 2>fox having the data's impact. One thing that people don't

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<v Speaker 2>think about are things like American crows or ravens out

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<v Speaker 2>in the western part of the state. They will take

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<v Speaker 2>their share of nests as well. We did an artificial

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<v Speaker 2>nest study in East Texas and almost fifty percent of

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<v Speaker 2>the nests that were depredated or by American crows. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's different all the diversity of animals out there that

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<v Speaker 2>are looking to eat those eggs.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew I didn't like crows for a reason. They

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<v Speaker 1>drive me absolutely nuts on my dear least, they hang

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<v Speaker 1>out by my stand and go crazy. Now I have

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<v Speaker 1>another reason not to like, you can't do anything about it,

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<v Speaker 1>but uh, you know, and they annoy me, now they

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<v Speaker 1>really annoy me. But you know, it's it's interesting to

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<v Speaker 1>look at all the things just in this, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the fifteen minutes or so we've been speaking. They are

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<v Speaker 1>like a challenge to get to the point where you

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<v Speaker 1>can go hunt that turkey, where that turkey can reproduce,

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<v Speaker 1>and it shows are just a lot of things, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of factors out there, and there's a new study

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<v Speaker 1>LSU was doing in conjunction with Texas Parks and Wildlife,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was so honored to get to go out

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of shoot the first photos of this where

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<v Speaker 1>y'all are placing GPS trackers on birds mainly hens here

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<v Speaker 1>in East Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct. Yeah, we're doing what we can to try to

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<v Speaker 2>continue to gain knowledge on how we can best manage

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<v Speaker 2>the wild turkey in Texas. And GPS technologist Phenomenal I

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned earlier VHS units, So that's just a radio kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like the transmitter on the back of a bird,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're walking around listening for a ping. We maybe

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<v Speaker 2>go out and track that bird once or twice a week.

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<v Speaker 2>The GPS units we're collecting a location every hour throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the day in the location and midnight, very precise data

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<v Speaker 2>that we're getting off of that, so we're able to

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<v Speaker 2>use that to better manage to track there in East Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what is the scale of fire that we

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<v Speaker 2>want to be approaching, What is the timing of that fire?

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<v Speaker 2>Are these birds utilizing findings? Are they utilizing food plots?

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<v Speaker 2>How our feeder is impacting the movement of these birds?

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<v Speaker 2>And even hunters. So there's a lot of information to

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<v Speaker 2>be a gain. You're very well aware of our restoration

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<v Speaker 2>efforts in East Texas. Are we doing it the right way?

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<v Speaker 2>Are we going to the right places? And that GPSDA

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<v Speaker 2>is going to help us continue to improve our approach

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<v Speaker 2>to not only management through the habitat, but management through

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<v Speaker 2>restocking of birds.

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<v Speaker 1>If I had, like Elon musk money, I would have,

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<v Speaker 1>like the Chester more put a tracker on every wildlife

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<v Speaker 1>foundation because I'm so intrigued by wildlife movements. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>And the thing in East Texas that I thought was

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<v Speaker 1>interesting was that I was talking with you about the

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<v Speaker 1>first time you mention that one of the goals was

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of look at some of these maybe native populations,

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<v Speaker 1>the ones that have kind of taken and they're not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily the most optimal turkey habitat, but for whatever reason

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<v Speaker 1>or thriving.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. You look over it at Newton County and

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<v Speaker 2>we have places like the more plantations to be national forests,

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<v Speaker 2>nice beautiful open understories, lots of her bases cover and

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<v Speaker 2>turkeys do well in that landscape. But some of that

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<v Speaker 2>landscape next door is yo pond, choked forest, understory, and

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<v Speaker 2>these birds are making do with daylight and roads and

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<v Speaker 2>clearcuts and finding efforts where they go in and disturb

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<v Speaker 2>that they're finding enough habitat to sustain themselves. One of

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<v Speaker 2>the benefits of that landscape is it's right next to

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<v Speaker 2>Louisiana and you get south of the dam at Toledo

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<v Speaker 2>Ben and there's nothing to prevent those birds, and they

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<v Speaker 2>are connected to the Louisiana population. So we're part of

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<v Speaker 2>that meta population down there, rather than being an island population,

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<v Speaker 2>which we end up with at some our restock sites.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I discovered that by reaching out to you a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of years back when I was working on my

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<v Speaker 1>Turkey Revolution project year two, and that was the photograph

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<v Speaker 1>of wild eastern Turkey in East Texas and I got

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<v Speaker 1>one in Newton County and I kind of ask you,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when when was the last time there was

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<v Speaker 1>a stocking. It was like a handful of birds in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand, like there were no real stocking efforts. And

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned that this was part of this population south

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<v Speaker 1>of the dam, and I thought that was really really

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<v Speaker 1>interesting right there, that there is some tradeover and things

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<v Speaker 1>like that, and I'm really excited to see what maybe

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<v Speaker 1>the results of this study are in the next few years.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, and part of that study, you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>actually marking some of our restock birds as well, the

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<v Speaker 2>nations river ties in over to that landscape where we

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<v Speaker 2>had those native populations. Are we seeing our restock birds,

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<v Speaker 2>we're taking DNA off those birds. Are we going to

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<v Speaker 2>over time see that that DNA showing up in that

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<v Speaker 2>in that native population or vice versa, and so at

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<v Speaker 2>lots of different tentacles going out in different directions trying

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<v Speaker 2>to figure out whatever we can to improve the management

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<v Speaker 2>of that species on public and private lands in Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's a great species, a cornerstone species. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>people aren't willing to spend tons of money to save

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<v Speaker 1>the eastern indigo snake or the gopher tortoise, the red

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<v Speaker 1>cockaded woodpecker maybe, but there's a couple hundred thousand people

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<v Speaker 1>that belong to the National Wild Turkey Federation and people

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<v Speaker 1>will buy an upland games bird stamp here in Texas

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<v Speaker 1>and all of that contribute. So that's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>reasons that I'm excited about getting the word out on

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<v Speaker 1>what you guys are doing for turkeys because in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 1>at least if more people kind of think about turkeys

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe turkey habitat, then maybe they'll think more about

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<v Speaker 1>habitat issues overall, and we'll see maybe a reversal to

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<v Speaker 1>some trends that aren't positive and more people focused on

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<v Speaker 1>this great game burden. We'll talk more about the So

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<v Speaker 1>we come back on More Outdoors. Welcome back to More

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<v Speaker 1>Outdoors on News Talk five sixty klv I. This is

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<v Speaker 1>Chester Moore And if you've missed the first couple of segments,

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<v Speaker 1>you want to go back klv I dot com click

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<v Speaker 1>on the podcast link at the top of the page,

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<v Speaker 1>and you don't want to miss this. It's a cool show.

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Hard and Texas Park's a while department's turkey program

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<v Speaker 1>director and glad to have him on the program. And

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<v Speaker 1>we were talking about, you know, this cool study. Matter

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<v Speaker 1>of fact, the cover story for the March April Texas

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<v Speaker 1>Fishing Game is a story I did on this You

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<v Speaker 1>can check that out on newsstands also at fishgame dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, there's a lot of turkey management and

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of it has to do with human management,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, you know, from a habitat standpoint, from a harvest standpoint,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of things that we have to consider

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<v Speaker 2>from from hunting to habitat and they all tie in

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<v Speaker 2>really well together.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's really unique to see that technology is

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<v Speaker 1>being a very beneficial factor to this. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>these things is harvest requirement. So if you harvest an

419
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.200
<v Speaker 1>eastern Turkey in that season hasn't opened yet, you have

420
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.039
<v Speaker 1>to report that and there's an app and you can

421
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.200
<v Speaker 1>use that. But you also have you said, a new

422
00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:19.240
<v Speaker 1>area where you're requiring harvest requirements.

423
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:24.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we've had the East Texas counties with an

424
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.119
<v Speaker 2>open season for a long time. For twenty plus years,

425
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.640
<v Speaker 2>we've had mandatory harvest recording. Used to be a physical

426
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.200
<v Speaker 2>check station that hunters can take their births to, you know,

427
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.039
<v Speaker 2>take a few photos next to the sign and all that.

428
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.160
<v Speaker 2>But we switched that over to it to an app

429
00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:40.799
<v Speaker 2>or our only partial life website a few years back,

430
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:44.240
<v Speaker 2>and that app has kind of grown. People are reporting

431
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:48.039
<v Speaker 2>gar wide tailed, your doze and some landscapes to that app,

432
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.240
<v Speaker 2>and we recently added ten new counties. So it's a

433
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:58.039
<v Speaker 2>one Gobbler county landscape going from Milham County south of

434
00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Mattagorda County includes bast say It Call It will, Colorado, Jackson,

435
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.279
<v Speaker 2>and a few others, and we've implemented mandatory harvest reporting

436
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.880
<v Speaker 2>in those counties. This is the first year that it's

437
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>on the books. We've already received I think close to

438
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.319
<v Speaker 2>fifty harvest reports from those ten counties this year April

439
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.920
<v Speaker 2>one April thirty season, so it's given us phenomenal data.

440
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:24.359
<v Speaker 2>I've already mapped out those harvest locations and we're seeing

441
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.240
<v Speaker 2>distribution of birds that we weren't even aware of. So

442
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:31.000
<v Speaker 2>it's great information. Using the apps on your phone, your smartphone,

443
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:34.440
<v Speaker 2>or even on the website reporting those harvests. We can

444
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.079
<v Speaker 2>do it voluntary for rios across the state, but it

445
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:39.279
<v Speaker 2>is mandatory and eat sexes in that Kent County area,

446
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.279
<v Speaker 2>and it's going to provide us great information, especially in

447
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.400
<v Speaker 2>the areas where we have lighter populations, where we don't

448
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.519
<v Speaker 2>capture that harvest through our through our paper survey that

449
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.359
<v Speaker 2>we've set up the past. So going in the right direction.

450
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:53.319
<v Speaker 2>I think now on.

451
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:57.680
<v Speaker 1>The counties with the new RIO requirements is that because

452
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:01.039
<v Speaker 1>maybe those are marginal population counties, are just that there's

453
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:05.920
<v Speaker 1>not enough data out there on those areas.

454
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.279
<v Speaker 2>It's both. So if you look at that landscape, that's

455
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.440
<v Speaker 2>the eastern edge of the Rio Grand turkey population. So

456
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.720
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned that I thirty five four to or all

457
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:19.039
<v Speaker 2>these counties are east of by thirty five, and we

458
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.880
<v Speaker 2>just dis light populations one bird compared to the rest

459
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.400
<v Speaker 2>of real Grand rangements. The four bird annual bag limits

460
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.400
<v Speaker 2>spring and fall season. For the most part, these are

461
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:32.680
<v Speaker 2>thirty day season spring only April and April thirty And

462
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.000
<v Speaker 2>like I said, there are turkeys there huntable populations, but

463
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.039
<v Speaker 2>the numbers just aren't as robust is what we see

464
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 2>in some areas like Minard or Slipher County. So we

465
00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:44.119
<v Speaker 2>had to do something to try to get a better

466
00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:47.000
<v Speaker 2>handle on what is harvest like in that area. We

467
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.400
<v Speaker 2>can use that harvest data to extrapolate that to get

468
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.799
<v Speaker 2>answers to populations and density distribution those birds and how

469
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:59.200
<v Speaker 2>are they spreading out over time. So lots of good

470
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:02.880
<v Speaker 2>information on a population that that we just don't have

471
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:03.599
<v Speaker 2>much information of.

472
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, it's amazing you think about trying to

473
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:09.799
<v Speaker 1>manage how many counties take two hundred and fifty counties.

474
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Plus in Texas were four counties across the state, and

475
00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 2>I would say over half of them have turkey populations.

476
00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so think you know one hundred and twenty five

477
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.200
<v Speaker 1>plus counties with turkeys, that's all. That's a lot to

478
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.440
<v Speaker 1>manage and get information on. And I'm sure that's a

479
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:26.759
<v Speaker 1>constant challenge trying to figure out, Okay, how can we

480
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.799
<v Speaker 1>best manage this area and sustain this or and you

481
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.519
<v Speaker 1>know in these maybe not necessarily in the UH, in

482
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.119
<v Speaker 1>these new requirements of reporting, but then just maybe talking

483
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.640
<v Speaker 1>with different people in private land. Ever, since Texas is

484
00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:43.039
<v Speaker 1>ninety seven percent privately owned, have you ever been kind

485
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:45.359
<v Speaker 1>of shocked, like some branch here and maybe you thought

486
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.519
<v Speaker 1>was a nominal area, go, oh, there's hundreds of turkeys

487
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:49.599
<v Speaker 1>and there turns out to be hundreds of turkeys on

488
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:50.759
<v Speaker 1>a ranch. You ever had that happen?

489
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I can remember driving through the rolling Plane and

490
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.759
<v Speaker 2>going through just cotton field, cotton field, cotton till and

491
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.960
<v Speaker 2>thinking where we go and then you go down a

492
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:04.160
<v Speaker 2>little up a little bluff, down another one, and you

493
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:10.119
<v Speaker 2>run across these cottonwood draws and they're just turkeys everywhere.

494
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>It is amazing how much life can exist in some

495
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.000
<v Speaker 2>areas where you didn't think.

496
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:19.400
<v Speaker 1>It was Now with that, I would like to talk

497
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:22.279
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about drought situation. So Texas kind of

498
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.000
<v Speaker 1>broken strout for a while, but we're having a situation

499
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.319
<v Speaker 1>this year in areas which is pretty nasty. So obviously

500
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:33.200
<v Speaker 1>drought's gonna be a big impact on birds. But you know,

501
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.759
<v Speaker 1>for example, coyotes, there's research that shows when coyotes get

502
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.839
<v Speaker 1>pounded really hard, the moms will have more babies. Is

503
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.359
<v Speaker 1>there any kind of mechanism that's been recognized? And maybe

504
00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:45.960
<v Speaker 1>wild turkeys where you have a really bad season or

505
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.160
<v Speaker 1>two of recruitment and then maybe there's more production.

506
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean usually that's going to occur more in

507
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.279
<v Speaker 2>our semi arid regions the state, so across that Rio

508
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Grande range. But it's cycles. You've seen that for decades

509
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:04.759
<v Speaker 2>and decades, where you have a drought year and then

510
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.200
<v Speaker 2>you'll have an average year and above average year, and

511
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.720
<v Speaker 2>then you have another drought year. So it just cycles

512
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 2>back and forth, and our populations follows cycles. So we'll

513
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.920
<v Speaker 2>have a year like we're having right now where it's

514
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>just not looking very promising, but hopefully next year of

515
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 2>the year after we'll get those winter and spring rains

516
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.279
<v Speaker 2>and the populations will boom. The good thing about turkeys

517
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.400
<v Speaker 2>is they have great survival when they're not sitting on

518
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.799
<v Speaker 2>the nest. So a lot of those hens, if they

519
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.680
<v Speaker 2>end up not attentioning to nest this year, they're going

520
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:36.519
<v Speaker 2>to carry over to next year. The survival is going

521
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:39.519
<v Speaker 2>to go up and compared to what it would be

522
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.240
<v Speaker 2>and hopefully have an opportunity to nest next year. So

523
00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>that's a good thing about turkeys. They're a little longer

524
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:49.839
<v Speaker 2>to live than some other ground nesting birds like quail,

525
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.440
<v Speaker 2>and more opportunity and they can have a much quicker rebound.

526
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.880
<v Speaker 2>We look at twenty eleven where we had just horrible

527
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.480
<v Speaker 2>droughts of wildfires, kind of setting up a situation like

528
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.039
<v Speaker 2>what we're having this year and our populations we just

529
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:05.759
<v Speaker 2>didn't get the recruitment. Yeah, but did you go to

530
00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:08.880
<v Speaker 2>fourteen fifteen, sixteen and you see this boom in the

531
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.759
<v Speaker 2>population turkeys and areas they'd never been before. And we're

532
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:14.960
<v Speaker 2>back going back to the other direction. But again it's

533
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>cycles every five years, every decade or so. You see

534
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:19.960
<v Speaker 2>that those ups and downs.

535
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, very interesting stuff. It's good to hear that. You know,

536
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.880
<v Speaker 1>on those drought years you have good hens survival I

537
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:29.200
<v Speaker 1>mean even going back to like you know, Moses, the

538
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Lord gave Moses instructions, if you come into an area

539
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:33.839
<v Speaker 1>in the Holy Land, you don't take the mother off

540
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the nest. You can only take the eggs. You know,

541
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.319
<v Speaker 1>we didn't figure out that the in the West until

542
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:42.400
<v Speaker 1>the eighteen hundreds, right, But so mom would mat lay again,

543
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and maybe the next year she would lay. But if

544
00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:47.799
<v Speaker 1>you lose that mom, and you know, then you lose

545
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 1>maybe a generation. If you had if you had a

546
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.279
<v Speaker 1>year where like they're just hens got wiped out, that

547
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:53.039
<v Speaker 1>would be nasty.

548
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, the hens are critical. We had the males

549
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:01.119
<v Speaker 2>out there, but the males don't contribute to anything other

550
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.359
<v Speaker 2>than bringing the in. He doesn't incubate eggs, he doesn't

551
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.440
<v Speaker 2>raise pulls. So we can we can really afford to

552
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.039
<v Speaker 2>harvest at least a certain percentage of our gobblers during

553
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.039
<v Speaker 2>the spring season. But when we start taking hens off

554
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:19.160
<v Speaker 2>the landscape, you know, dead, dead hens don't lay eggs.

555
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 2>So we got to protect our hens and we want

556
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.319
<v Speaker 2>to grow that population.

557
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.480
<v Speaker 1>And that's a big part of this study in East

558
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Texas right now. If I'm correct as monitoring.

559
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:32.319
<v Speaker 2>These hens, absolutely we have a good idea of what

560
00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:35.079
<v Speaker 2>the males do and what they don't do. But having

561
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:42.680
<v Speaker 2>a very good understanding of nesting behavior, renesting effort, nest success,

562
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:46.200
<v Speaker 2>hoult survival windows, polts are hitting the ground. All that

563
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:50.839
<v Speaker 2>will help us make other management decisions and hopefully improve

564
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:53.880
<v Speaker 2>habitat for those birds and keep them around for decades

565
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>to come.

566
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.920
<v Speaker 1>All right, we come back on More Outdoors, wrap up

567
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:01.359
<v Speaker 1>our conversation about turkeys with restoration efforts in the Ponne Woods.

568
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to More Outdoors on News Talk five sixty KLV.

569
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>This is Chester More. You can follow me at the

570
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Chester More on Instagram, Higher Calling Wildlife on Facebook, and

571
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:13.960
<v Speaker 1>my blog at Higher Kaling dot and that of course

572
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:16.680
<v Speaker 1>my work in Texas Fishing Game every issue and at

573
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:20.240
<v Speaker 1>fishgame dot Com all over the place out there. Sometimes

574
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:22.160
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of hard to keep up with myself. So

575
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to give it to you guys here on

576
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:25.519
<v Speaker 1>the air so you can connect with all these different

577
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.839
<v Speaker 1>stories and things. Wrapping up our conversation with Jason Harden,

578
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.359
<v Speaker 1>Texas Park's a Wildlife Department's turkey program leader, and we

579
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:35.039
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate you being on the show today.

580
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Hey, I'm happy to be here Chester. I appreciate all

581
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:39.799
<v Speaker 2>you do to get the word out on what we

582
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.240
<v Speaker 2>do at Parks and Wildlife National Wantrik Federation. You've been

583
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.960
<v Speaker 2>a big supporter of ours, and we really appreciate it.

584
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.160
<v Speaker 1>It's my honor and privilege. So one of the coolest

585
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:51.680
<v Speaker 1>things I've gotten to do is go photograph a bunch

586
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:56.119
<v Speaker 1>of turkey releases. And I think the turkey release thing

587
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.079
<v Speaker 1>has an interesting history, so kind of a you know,

588
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.359
<v Speaker 1>like maybe late seventies somewhere in there, there were some

589
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:05.039
<v Speaker 1>efforts to put turkeys back in East Texas, but didn't

590
00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:07.759
<v Speaker 1>what they're using like pen raised birds.

591
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.680
<v Speaker 2>If you look at the history of restoration in the

592
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.599
<v Speaker 2>Pinting Woods of East Texas. You know, the our predecessor

593
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:17.359
<v Speaker 2>with the Game Fish Norse Commission back in nineteen forty

594
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.359
<v Speaker 2>two estimated probably only one hundred eastern wild turkeys. So

595
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.119
<v Speaker 2>native birds remained turkey settlement and you're talking about millions

596
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 2>and millions of acres all the way from the Red

597
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:31.599
<v Speaker 2>River down to your country, all over to the Trinity River,

598
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:36.039
<v Speaker 2>and so there weren't birds out there to trap and restock.

599
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:39.720
<v Speaker 2>So early efforts around the nineteen twenties and thirties, they

600
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.680
<v Speaker 2>were catching rios in South Texas and up around Concho

601
00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:45.039
<v Speaker 2>and Coma County and bringing those all over the state.

602
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Huge success. But they were also bringing the pony witho

603
00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:50.480
<v Speaker 2>to be Texas and they stuck around for a decade

604
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:54.759
<v Speaker 2>or so, but eventually started to fade away. In the

605
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:58.319
<v Speaker 2>going into the sixties and seventies, there was a lot

606
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.240
<v Speaker 2>of pen raise efforts were going on the ground. Again

607
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:05.680
<v Speaker 2>we know today those fail. Today our state legislatures has

608
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.839
<v Speaker 2>made it where it's illegal to release pen raise birds

609
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:09.880
<v Speaker 2>in the Wall just due to the failure and the

610
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>negative impacts on our wild populations. It wasn't until nineteen

611
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 2>seventy nine that we moved exclusively to wild trapped Eastern

612
00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:21.279
<v Speaker 2>subspecies in the Pine Woods to East Texas, and from

613
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.759
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy nine to two thousand and three, over seven

614
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:27.839
<v Speaker 2>thousand Eastern Wall turches were released across I thinks like

615
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.119
<v Speaker 2>fifty six counties across the Black Lamb Prairie, post Oke,

616
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Savannah and Pine Woods, and they used of blockstocking approach.

617
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.039
<v Speaker 2>They released fifteen to twenty birds per county in about

618
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:42.960
<v Speaker 2>five to ten locations per county, and it was successful

619
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.279
<v Speaker 2>in some areas like you mentioned, you know, the Newton,

620
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Jasper Sabine County, Nacinoch's County, Folk County. They have open

621
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:53.920
<v Speaker 2>seasons today and part of that driven by those restoration efforts.

622
00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:57.720
<v Speaker 2>But the vast majority of those restocking efforts failed, and

623
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.920
<v Speaker 2>we think part of that was the method that we

624
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:05.680
<v Speaker 2>went with. You might let three birds go today, you

625
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.920
<v Speaker 2>might let five birds go a week later, and when

626
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:12.640
<v Speaker 2>you only let three males go on twelve hens, you

627
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.519
<v Speaker 2>lose the three males in your stockings filled. So it

628
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.640
<v Speaker 2>just wasn't as successful. We'd hope it wasn't a successful

629
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:20.599
<v Speaker 2>We saw a lot of other states that got an

630
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.400
<v Speaker 2>earlier starts than us using that same approach. During the

631
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.880
<v Speaker 2>latter part of the blockstocking era, we were doing some

632
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:29.680
<v Speaker 2>research with Texas A and M and doctor Roal Lopez

633
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.599
<v Speaker 2>did some modeling off of some of the birds he

634
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.799
<v Speaker 2>marked and came up with what he called a super

635
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.319
<v Speaker 2>stocking approach to restoration. He said that we've let these

636
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:41.440
<v Speaker 2>large numbers of birds go and did a mix of

637
00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:44.759
<v Speaker 2>juvenile adults that by year four and five we'd have

638
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:47.720
<v Speaker 2>a much better chance of success. We were putting all

639
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:50.279
<v Speaker 2>our eggs in one basket with those fifteen birds out

640
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>there get production year one, they prepair together and we

641
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.839
<v Speaker 2>have this county wide population. We manage hardest at the

642
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.480
<v Speaker 2>county scale rather than at an eco reaching scale, and

643
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:04.880
<v Speaker 2>so that was the approach. Let's pre stock this county.

644
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.519
<v Speaker 2>So following doctor Rolopez is a superstocking model. In around

645
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.760
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and seven, we'd walked away from blockstocking, were

646
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:14.920
<v Speaker 2>put birds in the ground. So we had a lot

647
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:18.679
<v Speaker 2>of landowners NWTF and our own staff clamoring let's get

648
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:21.519
<v Speaker 2>back in the turkey restoration business. We were not as

649
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.519
<v Speaker 2>successful as we thought we were. Let's get back into this,

650
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 2>let's do it. And we didn't want to jump back

651
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.199
<v Speaker 2>in just do the same thing we'd been doing. So

652
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:32.119
<v Speaker 2>we did funder some research through student f Fosston, Texas,

653
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:34.920
<v Speaker 2>A and M. We tested, which it was just a

654
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.440
<v Speaker 2>mathematical mode at the time, a super stockings. We wanted

655
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:39.760
<v Speaker 2>to do some empirical testing on the ground to release

656
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:45.079
<v Speaker 2>eighty birds per site at four sites and basically had

657
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.519
<v Speaker 2>the population establishment that we would see in nesting effort,

658
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:53.639
<v Speaker 2>pope recruitment like what we'd see in southeastern states. Established population.

659
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:56.119
<v Speaker 2>So we felt like we had a good approach. Now

660
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.679
<v Speaker 2>looking back at some of those sites, we stocked a

661
00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:01.239
<v Speaker 2>site in Montgomery County stock to side in Houston County,

662
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.000
<v Speaker 2>and they were very far removed from other existing populations.

663
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.320
<v Speaker 2>And today those populations are are blinking out because they're

664
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:11.519
<v Speaker 2>still removed from other populations. So what that told us

665
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.400
<v Speaker 2>is we need to if we're going to do restoration,

666
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.199
<v Speaker 2>we need to do it in these priority landscapes we're

667
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.440
<v Speaker 2>over time. These first have opportunities to exchange genetics across

668
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a large landscape. So the Natures River Priory landscape is

669
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.000
<v Speaker 2>one approach that we took leased birds down on Angelina

670
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.400
<v Speaker 2>National Forest at least a little further up in along

671
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.920
<v Speaker 2>with Angelina where you were at a little further up

672
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 2>in Cherokee County, and just create this daisy chain of

673
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.000
<v Speaker 2>populations where there's an opportunities to exchange genetics over time,

674
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.480
<v Speaker 2>so one population is not relying on itself. To go

675
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:46.840
<v Speaker 2>from an island population to a landscape of established purpose, it.

676
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Makes perfect sense. And I believe you guys are trying

677
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.079
<v Speaker 1>to make a minimum, but eighty to one hundred turkeys.

678
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 2>Per site, yeah, I don't think we released on a

679
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:58.159
<v Speaker 2>site that wasn't at least eighty birds. Yeah, And some

680
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 2>of them, you know, over one hundred, and that has

681
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:04.559
<v Speaker 2>its own drawbacks. You know, it's hard to get those birds.

682
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:08.880
<v Speaker 2>They're all coming from out of state for the most part, Southeastern, Northeastern,

683
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:13.800
<v Speaker 2>and Midwestern states, and it's getting harder and hard to

684
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.000
<v Speaker 2>get our hands on birds. We feel like we've had

685
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of success up to this point, but it's

686
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:20.119
<v Speaker 2>always a struggle.

687
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know, just from going to photograph there's a

688
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of start and stop, Like the birds will come in,

689
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.360
<v Speaker 1>they got to get a test. It's not just like, hey,

690
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.440
<v Speaker 1>go set a trap and catch birds. I mean it's

691
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 1>a challenging thing. And then you've got to get them

692
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:34.599
<v Speaker 1>from state to state. I mean most of the birds

693
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:36.760
<v Speaker 1>in the last year have come from Maine, right.

694
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we received birds from from, like I said,

695
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:47.840
<v Speaker 2>across the southeast, Midwest, South Carolina, Alabama, North Carolina, Missouri,

696
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:53.360
<v Speaker 2>West Virginia, our you know, just all over the Midwest, Southeast,

697
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:57.480
<v Speaker 2>and now the Northeast. Remain getting those birds. And it's

698
00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:00.159
<v Speaker 2>not just like you said, go sheer rocket over bring

699
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 2>them back to Texas. We have to assure they don't

700
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.559
<v Speaker 2>have avan influenza. You know, we're having a big issue

701
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:10.679
<v Speaker 2>across the country with high pathagenic avian influenza wiping out

702
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:15.400
<v Speaker 2>commercial and back to our birds. That's always a concern

703
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.440
<v Speaker 2>here in Texas. So we bring birds across state lines,

704
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:19.880
<v Speaker 2>got tested for that, We've got tested for salmonella. We

705
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:21.760
<v Speaker 2>have to have a vet look at them. We have

706
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.360
<v Speaker 2>to get them here, you know, we don't drive them

707
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:26.000
<v Speaker 2>from Mayne. We work with the National Ball Turkey Federation.

708
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:29.119
<v Speaker 2>They throw them on a Delta cargo plane, they fly

709
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:30.559
<v Speaker 2>them here. We pick them up in the middle of

710
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.280
<v Speaker 2>the night, take them through our facilities, work them over.

711
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Maybe we're gonna put a GPS unit on their back,

712
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.880
<v Speaker 2>whatever the case may be. Meant a lot of effort

713
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:44.000
<v Speaker 2>in those states that are doing the trapping, getting those

714
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.639
<v Speaker 2>birds worked up, taking bloodrom those birds overnight in that

715
00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:51.119
<v Speaker 2>blood to our lab and center, our Textaventary Medical Diagnostic

716
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:54.880
<v Speaker 2>labin center, running a twenty four hour test to see

717
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:58.599
<v Speaker 2>if they have it avian influenza or salmonila, getting the

718
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.599
<v Speaker 2>vet there at our facilities. So and then after all that,

719
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.800
<v Speaker 2>getting the birds to re lease side and releasing them

720
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:09.119
<v Speaker 2>safely and healthy. So it's always a struggle, but we've

721
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:12.760
<v Speaker 2>we've got it down pretty good. But there's always bumps

722
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:13.159
<v Speaker 2>in the road.

723
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I really want to get that out there

724
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:18.639
<v Speaker 1>just to show the level. Like you got National Law

725
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Turkey Federation covering like moving costs and boxes, and you've

726
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 1>got other states cooperating, you know, having people out there

727
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:28.519
<v Speaker 1>setting out of airports, catching news in the turkeys.

728
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:31.840
<v Speaker 2>And you know traps and absolutely and and you know

729
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.239
<v Speaker 2>we have to do evaluations all the sites. Those landowners

730
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.159
<v Speaker 2>to pass an evaluation to qualify, they have to be

731
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:39.519
<v Speaker 2>doing the habitat work. We're not going to let birds

732
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:42.719
<v Speaker 2>go on a site that doesn't have good quality habitats,

733
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.800
<v Speaker 2>So helping them find the funding for them funding it themselves.

734
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.400
<v Speaker 2>So there's a lot of work from the private landowners

735
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.400
<v Speaker 2>to the National Aultraity Federation, to the state agency to

736
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Texas Hunters to combine all this costs money. And it's

737
00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:59.960
<v Speaker 2>our upland game birst stamp the people buying that supercommon

738
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:02.360
<v Speaker 2>buying up on game versus stamps that are paying the

739
00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:06.199
<v Speaker 2>tab to restore turkeys in East Texas. So it's always

740
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.679
<v Speaker 2>been that way. Hunters are the reason why we have

741
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.079
<v Speaker 2>turkeys in East Texas, waite tail deer, all these other

742
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.280
<v Speaker 2>gang species. And it continues to be that way, they're

743
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:17.119
<v Speaker 2>putting the bill for for getting those birds in the ground.

744
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's a great conservation success story and that's

745
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.719
<v Speaker 1>going to continue, I believe, and thank you for all

746
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:24.239
<v Speaker 1>your efforts.

747
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, I appreciate Chester and you play a role as well,

748
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:28.679
<v Speaker 2>like I've said, you know, getting out there and getting

749
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.280
<v Speaker 2>the word out. Even with this interview, letting folks know

750
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:34.800
<v Speaker 2>that the state and all our partners are continuing to

751
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:36.719
<v Speaker 2>do what we can to get the birds on the

752
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:41.199
<v Speaker 2>ground to their historic range one thousand, over one thousand

753
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.840
<v Speaker 2>birds in twenty fourteen release all over East Texas and

754
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.400
<v Speaker 2>these priority landscapes, and we'll continue to do the work

755
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and hopefully over the next few decades we'll have huntable

756
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:53.559
<v Speaker 2>populations in those areas.

757
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:55.920
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, thanks for being on the show, and

758
00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.800
<v Speaker 1>thank you all for listening to more Outdoors. God bless

759
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.800
<v Speaker 1>and have a great, awesome outdoors weekend.