Speaker 1: And this is Michael Rosenbaum Alex Luthor, and you're listening
Speaker 1: to Always hold on to Smallville.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Always hold on to Smallville. In this podcast,
Speaker 2: we've talked about each and every episode of the Young
Speaker 2: Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
Speaker 2: twenty eleven on the WB and the CW. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Zach Moore, and we're back with another top ten episodes.
Speaker 2: That's right, the top ten episodes of Smallville as voted
Speaker 2: by you, the listeners, and this time the number eight
Speaker 2: entry Finale, the series finale. Now, as y'all heard on
Speaker 2: the podcast proper in our Finale Part one and Finale
Speaker 2: Part two coverage, we were all pretty critical of the finale,
Speaker 2: but as you might have also heard in our finale
Speaker 2: intermission podcast, a lot of you out there enjoy the finale.
Speaker 2: Even so seeing it here on the top ten list
Speaker 2: was surprising to me. But that's why I open it
Speaker 2: up to the listeners. Right, the people have spoken, and
Speaker 2: speaking of finale as a title, I joked about pilot
Speaker 2: being a very uninspired title, but I also said, in
Speaker 2: its defense, a lot of series title they're pilot pilot.
Speaker 2: There's no proper title for the pilot episode, but for
Speaker 2: a finale, come on finale like now, that is lazy,
Speaker 2: that is uninspired and my mind will never change about that.
Speaker 2: But before we get into it, let's look back on
Speaker 2: what we gave finale on the letter grade scale on
Speaker 2: the podcast Proper. Of course, we split up the finale
Speaker 2: and those discussions into part one and part two, So
Speaker 2: finale Part one had myself, Lance Laster, Caavante, Chillis, Matt Trux,
Speaker 2: and Victoria Malay And here are are grades. I gave
Speaker 2: finale Part one to see, Lance Gay, finale part want
Speaker 2: to see. Gavante gave finale part want to see, Matt
Speaker 2: gave finale part want to see, and Victoria gave Finale
Speaker 2: Part one a C plus, so slightly more positive than us.
Speaker 2: And for Finale Part two that was myself, Lance Laster, Cavante, Chillis,
Speaker 2: and Matt Trux. I gave Finale Part two a C plus,
Speaker 2: Lance Gay Finale Part two a B minus. Gavante gave
Speaker 2: Finale Part two of B minus, and Matt gave Finale
Speaker 2: Part two of B minus. That was interesting, as we
Speaker 2: discussed in those podcasts, separating the episodes out looking at
Speaker 2: them that way, in a way I'd never had before.
Speaker 2: And of the two, despite the egregious choices, a couple
Speaker 2: of egregious stories that were made. I'm talking about the costume,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about Lex's memory wipe. On the whole. Part
Speaker 2: two is a better episode than part one. But in
Speaker 2: this top ten episode discussion, for the sake of conversation
Speaker 2: and votes and rankings, I counted the finale as one episode.
Speaker 2: It was aired as one episode, it was intended to
Speaker 2: be watched and consumed as one episode, and that's how
Speaker 2: we kept it in our top ten rankings, and it
Speaker 2: ended up as number eight. And what's interesting here is
Speaker 2: you're going to hear a lot of the same people
Speaker 2: talk about the series finale, So you're gonna hear a
Speaker 2: lot of the same takes. You might hear some variations
Speaker 2: or slightly more or less positive or negative angles that
Speaker 2: we all take in this conversation. That's what's interesting to
Speaker 2: me anyway about this conversation, because you're hearing a lot
Speaker 2: of the same people talk about the same thing, but
Speaker 2: at a different time. Obviously, these were recorded at a
Speaker 2: different time than we discussed the series finale for the
Speaker 2: podcast proper, so a lot of it will sound the same,
Speaker 2: forgive us there, but some of it will be a
Speaker 2: little different, probably a little different gear. So I hope
Speaker 2: that again, its presence on this list reassures all the
Speaker 2: listeners out there who enjoyed the finale and were disappointed
Speaker 2: in our coverage and lack of enthusiasm about it on
Speaker 2: the podcast proper. But I also have to apologize because
Speaker 2: most of us are still pretty critical of the same
Speaker 2: things we were in our series finale coverage of Finale
Speaker 2: Part one and Finale Part two. Let's hear us talk
Speaker 2: about it now. I'm again joined by Lance Laster from
Speaker 2: Always hold On to Arrow, Victoria Malay, and Matt Truix
Speaker 2: from Lewis and Clark, the new podcast of Superman and
Speaker 2: many of the podcasts you're on the Always hold On
Speaker 2: To network and Patreon. So without further ado, let's discuss
Speaker 2: the number eight episode of Smallville finale.
Speaker 3: Kids, just don't fall out of Scott. What are you
Speaker 3: trying to tell me?
Speaker 4: Dad?
Speaker 3: Then? From another planet?
Speaker 1: So what are you gonna managed?
Speaker 3: Superman?
Speaker 5: We have the destiny together on the on different side,
Speaker 5: you're super You're here to be forced.
Speaker 3: That's where you.
Speaker 2: Every world needs its heroes.
Speaker 4: Time to become the Luther in the destined to be.
Speaker 3: I'm believing you, God, have you be the hero.
Speaker 2: Finale? First of all, was this on anyone's top ten list?
Speaker 2: I'll go first, it's yours. I wasn't on mine? What
Speaker 2: about you?
Speaker 1: It was not on mine?
Speaker 3: No, very very very far from the top ten list.
Speaker 4: That's a noe for me.
Speaker 5: Doc.
Speaker 2: Yes, to be fair, I think it was on Matthew Rocus.
Speaker 3: He's winning bingo between us.
Speaker 2: He's I think every single episode is. In fact, did
Speaker 2: I do the math wrong? Am I just using his
Speaker 2: top ten list for this thing? That might be? Honestly,
Speaker 2: I didn't think of finale was gonna be in the
Speaker 2: top ten. If you love the finale, hey, good for you.
Speaker 3: We're sorry.
Speaker 4: No, I am ready to give credit to the finale
Speaker 4: for some good things. I'm not here to shit on it.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 3: I'm glad there's a genuine fan perspective here in the finale.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 4: Someone had to do it.
Speaker 2: Friday to thirteenth, which was an omen in of itself
Speaker 2: that that's when the finale was gonna air. And Lance
Speaker 2: and I removemates of the time, and we sat and
Speaker 2: we watched this, and we were like, we kept looking
Speaker 2: at each other and we're like, he hadn't put the
Speaker 2: suit on yet. There's still time. There's still time. There's
Speaker 2: like thirty minute stuff like, there's still time, right, So
Speaker 2: what are your memories of us watching that together all
Speaker 2: those years ago?
Speaker 1: We just kept waiting for something like to happen, Like
Speaker 1: I remember both of us going like, all right, here
Speaker 1: we go when like stuff like you know, actually hit
Speaker 1: the fan and like some actions started happening. For much
Speaker 1: of the beginning parts of the episode, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of cwnis going on with the wedding and stuff.
Speaker 1: So when some stuff started to happen, we were like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's go. And then we waited a while
Speaker 1: and nothing happened for a while.
Speaker 3: Watched a bunch of montages together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's like, we spent so much time will
Speaker 2: they won't they for a wedding which kind of happened
Speaker 2: but then didn't. Where were you, Victoria? You remember the
Speaker 2: first time we watched the series FINALEUS Mobile.
Speaker 4: It's vaguely because it wasn't live. I watched the first
Speaker 4: episode of season ten live. But it was crazy though,
Speaker 4: because watching it I watched it like last night and today,
Speaker 4: the two two.
Speaker 2: Parter finale part one and finale Part two.
Speaker 4: My problem with it is there were actual moments that
Speaker 4: really I think maybe it's because we watched the pilot
Speaker 4: recently that had me so nostalgic and like really was
Speaker 4: again giving me the feels. But the problem is they
Speaker 4: would just take it two steps too far on everything,
Speaker 4: like the wedding, Like that whole scene where they're reading
Speaker 4: each other's vows is actually like really sweet and I
Speaker 4: know it's CW, but like it's this very interesting, vulnerable
Speaker 4: and honestly something I love, like actually exploring what it
Speaker 4: would be like if you're dating a superhero and having
Speaker 4: to make those kinds of choices. She's like, oh my god.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I did not like the Roundie
Speaker 4: Rown Merry go round camera work with that, but okay,
Speaker 4: but I was ready to forgive it. We were trying
Speaker 4: to be artsy, we were trying to be creative. There
Speaker 4: wasn't going to be another episode, so we were going
Speaker 4: all out. But then like when they brought up the
Speaker 4: vowels again, I did like the montage during the wedding ceremony.
Speaker 4: I was like, what is this show. My jaw was
Speaker 4: on the floor, and like, you know, it's a lot
Speaker 4: if I'm saying, like, let's stop doing close ups of
Speaker 4: Tom mulling space. That's my point. And I feel like
Speaker 4: this is the wedding is I'm harping on it, but
Speaker 4: like I feel like that was with everything. They just
Speaker 4: had a good idea, but then they would write it
Speaker 4: into the ground. And that's why it was a two
Speaker 4: part episode, because are like, wait, have we written in
Speaker 4: this concept into the ground? No, we need three more
Speaker 4: pages worth of it.
Speaker 2: Great, all right, good initial thoughts from you, Victoria Matt
Speaker 2: Can you recall when you saw finale? Did you watch
Speaker 2: that faithful Friday the thirteenth in twenty eleven, I did.
Speaker 3: Something marrible to people I was with. I was home,
Speaker 3: like right after college whatever that semester was. A friend
Speaker 3: of mine was down from New York. We were spending
Speaker 3: the weekend. I'm like, sorry, just one thing, Like, we
Speaker 3: have to watch Smallville. It's the finale. It's ten years.
Speaker 3: It'll be great though, he'll become a superman, he'll be awesome.
Speaker 3: You've seen a few episodes, sure, Oh, everything's great. And
Speaker 3: I felt so self conscious watching that episode with my
Speaker 3: friend and my parents the first time, because I'm just like,
Speaker 3: oh no, it's terrible. Oh no, it's terrible.
Speaker 4: Wait has anyone else ever felt personally victimized and self
Speaker 4: conscious when watching Smavell with the friends like raise your hands.
Speaker 3: Yes, raising my hand on audio? But yeah, it was
Speaker 3: by the third montage, I was like, oh no.
Speaker 2: This is the show that you wanted us to watch.
Speaker 2: You've been watching for ten years, Matt.
Speaker 3: Right, and it's Friday nights. They had run out of
Speaker 3: any story. There was like this much story in these
Speaker 3: two hours, and most of it is just like, guess
Speaker 3: what he's gonna do at the end, Guess what it's
Speaker 3: gonna do, you know. And then when talk about blue balls,
Speaker 3: like when it finally happens and we're just close on
Speaker 3: his face the entire time, it was just such a.
Speaker 2: When he quote unquote puts on the costume, lifts his hair,
Speaker 2: like cgi costume kind of floating onto his body and
Speaker 2: we stay super tight. That's when we knew. We see
Speaker 2: the Brandon Rause suit in the Fortress, which we saw
Speaker 2: that Martha made for him in the season premiere.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's let's discuss. Let's discuss that suit. Very briefly,
Speaker 3: because we see the Randon Routh suit at the end
Speaker 3: of season nine and I think the beginning of season
Speaker 3: ten ish. By the time it's later on, that's a
Speaker 3: different s. It's a smoothed out S and the fabrics different,
Speaker 3: like at the end.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, the one that Jonathan gives him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the one that Jonathan gives him. And then just
Speaker 3: that the shirt rip at the end. You know why
Speaker 3: am I acting this out on the podcast? Yeah? Rip?
Speaker 2: That is someone glued a. Superman return s to a
Speaker 2: blue T shirt that Tom Walling was wearing as he
Speaker 2: ran out the roof. Now there were a few rabbit
Speaker 2: holes will go down as we talked through here, but
Speaker 2: the suit is the big I think we can all
Speaker 2: agree the lack of seeing Tom Walling and Superman costume
Speaker 2: was crushing, right.
Speaker 4: Crushing the nerve crushing. But I was pleasantly surprised that
Speaker 4: I feel like we got more flying than I would
Speaker 4: I was expected.
Speaker 2: Well if it wasn't him, So yeah, that cgi Superman
Speaker 2: flying around.
Speaker 4: I seriously, I literally thought, because I just thought again
Speaker 4: years later, I just thought it was just going to
Speaker 4: be that last shot at the end, because I think
Speaker 4: I'd seen like that little clip at the end, but
Speaker 4: when he floats, I was like, for me though actually
Speaker 4: exciting because I thought we were literally getting like the selch.
Speaker 2: Speaking that last shot. I will say the last scene
Speaker 2: is great John Williams music. You have Lois and and
Speaker 2: Jimmy's little brother. The voice of Michael McKean is probably
Speaker 2: white through a door and Lex Luthor was elected president
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen because smallvel people can't do math. And
Speaker 2: then know when election years happened and you have all
Speaker 2: the players in place, and then you have them bump
Speaker 2: onto the stairs and it's kind of fun. He's like
Speaker 2: miss Lane, She's like, oh, that is so hot. When
Speaker 2: you say that that was pretty I know.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, finally someone acknowledges.
Speaker 3: Ut for seven years.
Speaker 4: This is my lowest is my woman.
Speaker 2: So we get that a little cute moment and he's like,
Speaker 2: kill the minister, how about be a few minutes late.
Speaker 2: And he goes up to the top of the roof.
Speaker 2: You're like, they do push it a little too far?
Speaker 2: Like why is it extreme extreme slow motion doraor I
Speaker 2: need to see him open their.
Speaker 3: Doorroh his vest take off? Y?
Speaker 2: You know all that's it's like, okay, we get.
Speaker 4: It as someone who again it's very pro Tom Welling
Speaker 4: taking off his clothing I big big draw smavel for me,
Speaker 4: and of course the amazing storytelling, but everything was just
Speaker 4: taken too far. Like yeah, I also think they used
Speaker 4: slow moo so many times throughout the episodes that you
Speaker 4: were like, by the it had no impact when you
Speaker 4: used it. At the end, you're like, you've you've burned
Speaker 4: this this shot too many times.
Speaker 2: Well, the worst LOMO of all time in Smallville is
Speaker 2: in this episode, and it's during the wedding when Chloe
Speaker 2: sees the wrong ring and she's like.
Speaker 4: I kind of love that.
Speaker 3: I wish I wish.
Speaker 4: I kind of love the irony of that, and I
Speaker 4: wish that had been played more than like the stupid
Speaker 4: overwrought drama Apocalypse Cult, because that's that's kind of like
Speaker 4: to me, I love the irony of that. Like she's like, no,
Speaker 4: don't put the ring on because she's trying to save Clark.
Speaker 4: But when everyone else is like, oh my god, she
Speaker 4: still hasn't gone over it exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: We took care of the seven years ago on the show.
Speaker 4: Like, like Chloe, I thought we had our personal growth moment.
Speaker 2: No, okay, what all the people in the stands thing,
Speaker 2: the stands, the seats, the audience. Oh okay, this so
Speaker 2: so I got it. Let's finish with the costume and
Speaker 2: then we'll talk on these other things so we can
Speaker 2: go on and on. I know. So yeah, the costume.
Speaker 2: If that ending was the ending of season five or
Speaker 2: even season seven, I would have been like, well done,
Speaker 2: show amazing. You brought it home, all right, But let's
Speaker 2: not forget back. In season nine we already had a
Speaker 2: shirt rip. It was in Warrior, which is an underrated
Speaker 2: episode by the way. They want the warri Rangel where
Speaker 2: they go to the comic con and all that. So
Speaker 2: I watched a couple of scenes on YouTube every now
Speaker 2: and then, which is the Clark and Lex scene. We'll
Speaker 2: get the Lex scenes, yeah, and then the last scene
Speaker 2: right where he goes up to the roof and he
Speaker 2: rips open the shirt and so like in little capsules,
Speaker 2: those are great. I really think they are. But it
Speaker 2: just after coming after seeing cgi Superman fly around and
Speaker 2: do things like, it's not very fulfilling to see Clark
Speaker 2: Kent rip open his shirt and have the s on there.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's my what do you guys think that's
Speaker 2: a fair opinion to have about that.
Speaker 1: I think so, especially considering in other seasons we've seen
Speaker 1: him do more super heroic looking things than that at
Speaker 1: the like that we saw in this episode, you know,
Speaker 1: in previous seasons as him and as the Blur putting
Speaker 1: the glow back on top of the Daily Planet. That
Speaker 1: was really cool. The train thing, yeah, standing with the flag,
Speaker 1: stuff like that that we've already seen, the stopping the
Speaker 1: nuclear missile like now season five, you know. So it's
Speaker 1: like we've seen like real super cool things already. You
Speaker 1: couldn't give us like something that was like finale worthy,
Speaker 1: like earlier in this season, like in Homecoming we saw him,
Speaker 1: you know, stop that explosion the helicopter.
Speaker 2: We saw it again in this episode. Superman's introduction scene
Speaker 2: Tyler Hecklin's introduction scene in Supergirl season two, episode one.
Speaker 2: That is what I wanted to be the last scene
Speaker 2: of Smallvillehere he's like almost yes, oh there's a space
Speaker 2: plane and he rips open his shirt, Like I would
Speaker 2: have lost my if that was the last scene of Smallville.
Speaker 2: But instead it was them opening the door, and I'm
Speaker 2: thinking that was great again. It's great in a capsule,
Speaker 2: but for ten years, you know, it's disappointing. I think
Speaker 2: we can all say, as people who had watched this
Speaker 2: for ten years, we wanted to see one thing when
Speaker 2: to see Clark becomes Superman. Did we get that? I
Speaker 2: mean technically yes, but it was an unfulfilling way of
Speaker 2: getting it right.
Speaker 3: Part of that promise, though, is just inherently seeing Tom
Speaker 3: Welling in a Superman suit, and it's it's the easiest
Speaker 3: part of this.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: But also like they sold it to the network with
Speaker 4: no flights, no tights.
Speaker 2: Well they sold it to Tom Welling with no flights,
Speaker 2: no tights, which is the real problem. Like like they've
Speaker 2: been like as the years have gone on, more and
Speaker 2: more has come out about this, right, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I don't think we earned it. You know, that wasn't
Speaker 2: what our show was about. It's like, Tom, you just
Speaker 2: didn't want to wear the costume. Like, let's just be
Speaker 2: honest about this, Like like there was a script written
Speaker 2: where he was going to be Superman much earlier, and
Speaker 2: then he was gonna be Superman the whole episode, and
Speaker 2: that's what I thought it was going to be. But
Speaker 2: he went to Peter Roth and he's like, hey, I
Speaker 2: don't think this is our show. We haven't earned it yet.
Speaker 2: And so they basically changed the script because of Tom
Speaker 2: Willings's preferences. And that's and I think that's why we
Speaker 2: had not much story, because they had to like, well,
Speaker 2: we got to plash the Superman back because we can
Speaker 2: only afford a cgi Superman who's one thousand feet away
Speaker 2: for so much of the episode. And honestly, I really
Speaker 2: do think it's I think two thousand and eleven, Tom
Speaker 2: willing he was burned out. He agreed never to wear
Speaker 2: a Superman costume. He thought he might be typecast. But
Speaker 2: if you played Clark Give for ten years, you're already
Speaker 2: type cast. So I don't understand why that's still a concern.
Speaker 4: I heard that Tom was getting seven figures per at
Speaker 4: the end, was getting like seven figures per episode. What
Speaker 4: you need to pay him because he's number one on
Speaker 4: the call sheet and he's directing and producing at this point.
Speaker 3: Seven figures an episode that buys you a Superman suit
Speaker 3: that puts a cape on your back, Like, come on, man.
Speaker 2: We all were on that same page. Dark side. Let's
Speaker 2: talk about dark side. This is kind of a season
Speaker 2: talk two because it's a payoff of the season and
Speaker 2: the series. I was like, Okay, we're gonna have smoke Side, right,
Speaker 2: So we called him on the forums. I think that's
Speaker 2: what they call Side and I'm like, Okay, that's fine
Speaker 2: because it's they gotta save for the series finale. You know,
Speaker 2: that's fine. They've never done Dark Side and live action before.
Speaker 2: I'll be patient. It's cool. Mike Lyron's side is leis
Speaker 2: his dad on the show. He's been in the season.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he'll do the voice piche' do on the
Speaker 2: animated series. It's all gonna come together. And then he
Speaker 2: still smokes Side for like two scenes, and then he
Speaker 2: possesses zombie Lionel Luther because John Glover's a lot cheaper
Speaker 2: than than a CGI monster of Dark Side, I will
Speaker 2: not true, which is a ridiculous anson. I joke about
Speaker 2: that line for about a year.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, John Glover is like
Speaker 4: a master of the craft, and like, look where we are.
Speaker 4: I just feel like I just got a very strong
Speaker 4: vibe being like, oh my god, Okay, everyone, we can
Speaker 4: do this. It's the last one. Like everyone just dug
Speaker 4: down deep and grounded.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what That's what I always thought. Definitely that
Speaker 3: you were watching it the first time, like seeing that
Speaker 3: that was his last scene, that was John Glovery's last scene.
Speaker 3: It's just like, oh man, you're going out like this,
Speaker 3: steally happy to get you back.
Speaker 1: It's like, this is what we get him back for.
Speaker 1: We get him back for and I will annihilate you.
Speaker 2: When we were watching like oh, well, okay, well he
Speaker 2: flew through the vessel of dark Side. Now he's gonna
Speaker 2: go put on the Superman costume and fight real dark
Speaker 2: Side and the world will see that Superman and because
Speaker 2: I like what he says to him, He's like, hey,
Speaker 2: it's easier to hate, but love is stronger than hate.
Speaker 2: And then like, okay, that's a good message. It's a
Speaker 2: good super message. He's hope, he's all that right, He's
Speaker 2: the light. That's what they would talk about this whole season.
Speaker 2: It's all coming back to me watching this. And then
Speaker 2: he flies through Lionel dark Side Zombies line or whatever
Speaker 2: we called him, and then he disperses into crows and
Speaker 2: then that's it. And then he could just goes up
Speaker 2: cgi Superman goes up and pushes the planet away and
Speaker 2: that cures every one of their evil that didn't make
Speaker 2: that that that was very inspiring to the There.
Speaker 4: Was like a thrown where they were like, it's the proximity.
Speaker 4: It's activating everyone. So all he had to do was
Speaker 4: like push.
Speaker 1: It's like Superman returns him pushing the continent away while
Speaker 1: a short of Kryptonites in his side. But honestly, it's
Speaker 1: just ridiculous.
Speaker 4: It was strange because like, there are a lot of
Speaker 4: moments that felt very nineteen seventies Superman, but they were
Speaker 4: not working right. Like they were like, let's do this
Speaker 4: call back, and I'm like, I don't know or and
Speaker 4: I think like the score, and I was just like,
Speaker 4: I don't think this is quite right.
Speaker 2: Okay, well about the scope, No, no, I will say
Speaker 2: this about score. I love the fact that used the
Speaker 2: Williams music. You hadn't heard it in the show since
Speaker 2: season two. And I like the blur thing like done
Speaker 2: dun dun d d D. But I spent my I
Speaker 2: spent the last five years of the show thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: I can't wait to the finale when they turn that
Speaker 2: into the Supermann, Like I can hear it in my
Speaker 2: head musically, where it's like duh da du like it
Speaker 2: just I need to go.
Speaker 1: And yet there is definitely a to mash all of
Speaker 1: that up and make it work. These themes and like
Speaker 1: the you know, the way that they come together musically,
Speaker 1: it makes sense.
Speaker 3: We believe in you make this happen.
Speaker 1: It's a project of mine for sure. But like it
Speaker 1: was good to hear the Williams music, and it was
Speaker 1: good to have the actual Smallville themes in there, like
Speaker 1: you know, like the Blur theme, the Clark and Lowis
Speaker 1: theme was good as well because that one could also
Speaker 1: go into the Clark and Lowis like the can You
Speaker 1: Read My Mind theme from the seventies movies, so that
Speaker 1: could also get in there as well. But like we
Speaker 1: didn't kind of like Zach sent was saying, we didn't
Speaker 1: really get it, and it's it's unfortunate.
Speaker 2: What I wanted was a reorchestration like they did what
Speaker 2: Mark Snow did in season two been said, But I
Speaker 2: mean to your point, Victory, like they pushed play on
Speaker 2: the CD, you know, on the track, and it's like
Speaker 2: we're gonna loop this. Yeah, last couple of scenes of
Speaker 2: the show. But I will say, like even watching it now,
Speaker 2: like I was like, we were like exchanging some glances
Speaker 2: and comments of frustration, but like the end did it
Speaker 2: did end on a feel good note when like the
Speaker 2: ass comes out of you like s I got.
Speaker 4: The emotional when Chloe ends telling the story to her
Speaker 4: son for me, and I don't know about you guys,
Speaker 4: but it's very hard to remember the first time you
Speaker 4: heard about Superman because he is so embedded into popular
Speaker 4: culture worldwide, and so I liked it, Like it was
Speaker 4: very emotional for me because like I could empathize with
Speaker 4: being a kid, like learning about Superman for the first
Speaker 4: time and just being in awe and wonder like, so
Speaker 4: I thought those like there were some moments that were great,
Speaker 4: and then there were some moments yeah, with the score
Speaker 4: and stuff, and I was just like no, no, I
Speaker 4: think that was another thing too that made it. It
Speaker 4: was just like consistently bad then fine, but there were
Speaker 4: these little moments where they like grasped it, but then
Speaker 4: they would like let it go, then they'd drop it.
Speaker 2: So let me get this straight. Clark Kent's Life is
Speaker 2: a comic book published by DC Comics.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because it was a DC comic and like
Speaker 4: the DC representation of Superman.
Speaker 3: That's what takes me out of it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't understand the in universe logic of that.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that tricks?
Speaker 3: The universe breaking of it just takes me out of
Speaker 3: it completely. I I don't understand why they do the
Speaker 3: like I get that, it's I'm so sorry to I
Speaker 3: get what you're saying, Victoria, like, I think that's their
Speaker 3: intention here, but I'm the weirdo fan. That's just like,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, do people know he's from Smallville?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: No, no, I think no, No, I think it's I think
Speaker 4: it's too.
Speaker 3: Pete and Lana are in this comic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would I would pay a thousand dollars
Speaker 2: to have that issue of that comic.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I don't understand that as a but I
Speaker 3: do understand. I understand Superman being a character or a
Speaker 3: publishable character in that world. But obviously that's just that's
Speaker 3: too close. Like they that's his origin story. They wouldn't
Speaker 3: do no, like.
Speaker 4: Someone could pick that up who went to small vill
Speaker 4: High and be like this even if they because the
Speaker 4: thing I was thinking, I was like, well they change
Speaker 4: his name or they just refer to him as.
Speaker 3: Kaal El throughout right, like the Spider Man thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or but like I feel like someone could pick
Speaker 4: that up. Who went to small ble Hie be Like
Speaker 4: Jesus really sounds like this kid I went to high
Speaker 4: school with looks like him too.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 3: We saved everybody and looked all said.
Speaker 1: Well, not only that, but it's just like Clark was
Speaker 1: like semi famous, Like you know, Clark was a state
Speaker 1: champion high school quarterback. Clark was friends with Lex Luthor
Speaker 1: from the Jump. Clark, you know was his name is
Speaker 1: on all these police reports that they still have records
Speaker 1: of it that they keep in the small Lildle Police department.
Speaker 1: All roads lead to Clark Kent. So if that comic
Speaker 1: was published, literally everybody knows.
Speaker 3: He's also still in the public eye as an intrepid
Speaker 3: reporter for the Daily Plast the greatest Metropolitan but.
Speaker 4: He wears glasses when he does that, so he's also.
Speaker 1: And he's also engaged like the most famous like newswoman
Speaker 1: like in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, probably a better Christian amport, probably better.
Speaker 2: But my favorite line of this entire finale is when
Speaker 2: Lois is arguing with that other what's the reporters and
Speaker 2: the other one Janet random hot girl and yeah sure, uh.
Speaker 2: Lois is like trying to convince her to tell the
Speaker 2: president something. She's like, no one's gonna believe you, Lois,
Speaker 2: and then Lois like she gets a stapler and then
Speaker 2: she knocks her out and she says, I'm sorry I
Speaker 2: had to do that. I wouldn't have done it if
Speaker 2: the world wasn't at stake and you weren't such a bitch.
Speaker 2: That's my favorite line.
Speaker 4: Of the feminism feminism women supporting women, Lois freaking call.
Speaker 2: Your dad, well, who was not at the wedding?
Speaker 1: He was not on the He was not at the wedding,
Speaker 1: but he was also not on the plane. Wasn't he
Speaker 1: supposed to be on the plane?
Speaker 3: Wasn't, thank you?
Speaker 4: And then also he wasn't the president. The president was
Speaker 4: the secretary.
Speaker 3: That was the president. Afterwards, Okay, he like gets out
Speaker 3: of the bathroom. I guess he was.
Speaker 1: On the toilet the whole time, all right, But she
Speaker 1: barges in on the Secretary of Defense, and like earlier
Speaker 1: in episode, they're just like, oh, he was whisked away
Speaker 1: with the joint chiefs, So does that doesn't that mean
Speaker 1: that he was on the plane, like the bathroom was
Speaker 1: supposed to.
Speaker 4: Be around stressed stressed person. Also, why is she like,
Speaker 4: I'm Sam Lane's daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And where's your sister at the wedding? You know,
Speaker 2: let's talk about the wedding for a piece of.
Speaker 4: Crappy that's been well established.
Speaker 2: Why is Clark not wearing his glasses right during this wedding?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: What well the glasses. By the way, the glasses are
Speaker 2: smaller if you guys notice this. When he got the
Speaker 2: glasses in season ten, they were smaller than they were
Speaker 2: in like season nine and seven when they like hint
Speaker 2: at some glasses like well it was like okay, it's
Speaker 2: more than one moment, but they're gonna be smaller. I'm like,
Speaker 2: why you think he's such a dick about the glasses, man,
Speaker 2: Like glasses are in you know, like like I just
Speaker 2: don't understand. And a huge dick move by Clark. I know,
Speaker 2: I guess it paid off. Lois is like, come down
Speaker 2: the aisle, Clark is not there, so for like she
Speaker 2: thinks that he left her at the altar for a
Speaker 2: while and then he like swoops in the side. Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna walk you down there.
Speaker 3: All.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a dick move. Victoria tell me,
Speaker 2: was that romantic or not?
Speaker 4: Okay? I had friends who did this. I mean obviously
Speaker 4: it was planned, like the groom went and got the
Speaker 4: bride and walked around the aisle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was not planned.
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay. I'm like, if it's right for the couple's right, well,
Speaker 4: because and it's like then fine, I'm not judging it.
Speaker 4: I think, well, you know what, here's the thing. It
Speaker 4: probably no because he can't use it. I was like,
Speaker 4: it was honestly, probably just a blink and then he
Speaker 4: was there. But I was like, no, we can't use
Speaker 4: his spouse in front of a chapel full of people.
Speaker 3: Nope, that's how little plot they had that this became
Speaker 3: a dramatic turn.
Speaker 4: And because it also was yeah, I was like, well
Speaker 4: did they just hype it for like seven and a
Speaker 4: half minutes and that's why it felt long? And like
Speaker 4: he left it and I was like, no, Also, was
Speaker 4: she supposed to walk by herself? And she I thought
Speaker 4: she was supposed to walk by herself and then just
Speaker 4: like was really nervous and then Clark was there.
Speaker 2: Well I thought that too, But then when they make
Speaker 2: a point that like Clark is not standing up there,
Speaker 2: so I don't know. That's what stick out to me
Speaker 2: this time. It's crazy that we spend so much time
Speaker 2: on this wedding and then it doesn't happen, and for
Speaker 2: some reason, the darkness turns the Holy water dark and
Speaker 2: bubbly it turns into venom.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just about to say, look like the
Speaker 1: venom symbiat.
Speaker 4: Tom Hardy like comes out of the well.
Speaker 2: And then Clark end of part one he fights possessed
Speaker 2: Oliver and then the end of part two he fights
Speaker 2: possessed zombie Line and Luther. I'm like, come on, this
Speaker 2: is what we're doing in this series finale.
Speaker 4: Also like the fact that he didn't have to. The
Speaker 4: way he got the darkness out of Oliver was like
Speaker 4: I believe in you.
Speaker 1: I'm like what, yeah, it's yeah. And also I got
Speaker 1: to be the one that asked us where was Pete?
Speaker 1: Why was Pete not at this wedding?
Speaker 4: Pete hoocked on that kryptonite gum. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't
Speaker 4: able to kick it.
Speaker 3: Was Pete in jail at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe Sam Jones the third was criminally.
Speaker 3: Incarsat recently incarcerated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he got out and he's cleaned up
Speaker 2: his ax.
Speaker 3: He was he was the first to fall in a
Speaker 3: long line here.
Speaker 4: Did I tell you guys that I met him an
Speaker 4: auditioned with him once? Fun fact, Oh yeah, it was
Speaker 4: my first casting internship in la I think it was
Speaker 4: the end of the day and everyone wants to go home.
Speaker 4: But I went up to my casting office, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: that was the season regular on small Though. She's like, okay,
Speaker 4: bring him in, and so all these other assistants my god,
Speaker 4: which it was probably like a Friday night God, we
Speaker 4: just want to get out of here, which I now
Speaker 4: fully empathize with. But it was cool, like we brought
Speaker 4: him in and then I was the person reading the
Speaker 4: script with him, so I got to like have a
Speaker 4: little moment with Pete Ross.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 4: I should have been like, do you want some kryptonite
Speaker 4: lace scum script?
Speaker 2: Night free? Lana was not in this episode at all.
Speaker 4: That was endlessly disappointing. What are you doing? Was your
Speaker 4: weird beauty of the b show on? At that point?
Speaker 3: I think it was, wasn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: But like again, a.
Speaker 4: Day of work. It's a day of work.
Speaker 2: I don't know what capacity, Like, I think in my mind,
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, if we can get a shot of
Speaker 2: like Christian Kuric watching a TV and seeing Superman Save
Speaker 2: to Day and not in approval or something why she's
Speaker 2: like feeling her Kryptonite necklace which is now clear or
Speaker 2: something like that, I would have been happy with that.
Speaker 2: In fact, we can we can try a fan out
Speaker 2: that one day, we can make that happen. But I'm
Speaker 2: sure there's some scene in Beating the Beast which she's
Speaker 2: watching TV we can use that. But I don't know
Speaker 2: if remember last time she came on the show in
Speaker 2: season eight, she completely derailed everything and it was terrible,
Speaker 2: classic Lana classic, classic horrible hair. Yes, oh horrible. It's
Speaker 2: some bad hair too, Chloe hair.
Speaker 4: No, but like, oh my god, no, Chloe's hair was
Speaker 4: terrible in this. I think Kristen was going through the
Speaker 4: phase that like stunningly beautiful women go through where they're like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm just something ugly with my hair, because like, I
Speaker 4: don't want you to just see how beautiful I am.
Speaker 3: Let's try and bangs in the Beatles Bob maybe yeah.
Speaker 4: No, seriously, like Scarlett Johanson just got over hers keep going.
Speaker 2: Well, I just don't know how they would have incorporated
Speaker 2: her because they would have to explain, Hey, I got
Speaker 2: cured of my kryptonite Prometheus suit the Lex made and
Speaker 2: then it's like, oh, great that we can be together.
Speaker 2: Now forget this wedding with Lows. I guess exactly what.
Speaker 2: I have no doubt that's what Clark would have done,
Speaker 2: because that's what he's done dime after dyme on this show.
Speaker 2: So it actually was like a blessing in the sky.
Speaker 2: She didn't want to. I'm sure they asked her. I know,
Speaker 2: Welling was like, oh, we got to get Lana back.
Speaker 4: What do you want to see for Clark and your
Speaker 4: trying to season Clark.
Speaker 6: And Lex, Clark and Lex, maybe Alana Clark.
Speaker 3: Lois the triangle again?
Speaker 2: Who knows.
Speaker 6: I want to see a lot of the people that
Speaker 6: we know that the fans dealt and the show come
Speaker 6: back and and see those relationships.
Speaker 4: What do you think the chances of getting christitted.
Speaker 6: Mike back on the Shower, Well, I'd like to think
Speaker 6: they're good, but I don't. Always my reality sometimes it
Speaker 6: is different than other realities. But I hope they know
Speaker 6: that we want them back, and I know, we're gonna
Speaker 6: do everything we can see in the day.
Speaker 2: I think it was for the best that she was
Speaker 2: not in the episode, although she was all over the flashback,
Speaker 2: so it was like, you keep who's this woman that
Speaker 2: he keeps saving year after year and.
Speaker 1: He's not here?
Speaker 2: Just as odd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I never thought she'd show up.
Speaker 4: I missed her. I like your I liked you. Well,
Speaker 4: I'm like, well they got lex so they'll get Lana.
Speaker 4: I liked your pitch Zach on how to do it?
Speaker 4: You just show are kind of like from a distance,
Speaker 4: she's observing.
Speaker 2: And she's in Paris somewhere.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna write that fanfic, don't you.
Speaker 3: Really Natalie Portman grabs some old footage and just throw
Speaker 3: her in, right.
Speaker 2: So that's Lana. Another thing we have to talk about
Speaker 2: Ghost Dad confusing the weirdest creative choice I have seen
Speaker 2: in a television show. Maybe I don't know, Latoria, what
Speaker 2: are your thoughts on ghost Dad?
Speaker 4: Honestly speechless? What the actual Like I was like at first,
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, so it's like happens when he's
Speaker 4: like it's his in his mind, like he's talking. I
Speaker 4: get that, Like that's a commonly used trope like you know,
Speaker 4: you're talking to the character in your mind, and then
Speaker 4: like Martha comes in. I'm like, wait did she see
Speaker 4: him too? And then and then he said the wedding,
Speaker 4: she's kind of looking at him. I was like, wait, what.
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 4: And then also like we're and then we're the fortress
Speaker 4: and like Jarrelle is like he's like, all right, remember
Speaker 4: how I've been like the worst for ten years? And
Speaker 4: Martha like let's let's let's all give him like some props.
Speaker 4: Like so this is such a great I mean, it
Speaker 4: was obviously Forest and Harry, but like I was ready
Speaker 4: to accept this resolution between Clark and Durell because now,
Speaker 4: like again, if I'm going to insert it into like
Speaker 4: the Superman's seventies timeline, it's like, now, this is how
Speaker 4: they got to the point where they have like not
Speaker 4: this relationship filled with animosity.
Speaker 1: Fine, I know, I just don't understand, like how does
Speaker 1: he give him the suit? Does Martha see him? Does
Speaker 1: Clark see him the whole time or does he only
Speaker 1: see him that one time? And it's like unclear, It's
Speaker 1: all unclear, and it's and it kind of boils down
Speaker 1: to you shouldn't have killed off Jonathan kn't if you
Speaker 1: wanted him in here this much, you shouldn't have killed him.
Speaker 3: Yep, well I explained the magical realism. But like, this
Speaker 3: is the same thing that BVS did. Guys, like they
Speaker 3: did this.
Speaker 2: Just a couple of years ago Smallville exactly.
Speaker 3: I know it's oh, it's nuts, but but like it
Speaker 3: just it keeps coming up, the fact that they actually
Speaker 3: let him. It's just no offense. Oh, this seems dangerous.
Speaker 3: No offense to the title of this very podcast that
Speaker 3: I listened to by myself, even when I'm.
Speaker 4: Not on it.
Speaker 3: What was the point of that line?
Speaker 2: Yes, the haters, I'm sorry, but the podcast.
Speaker 4: The title is perfect for this podcast. Is it perfect
Speaker 4: for the last thing that Jonathan says in a very
Speaker 4: contrived weird ghost at situation?
Speaker 1: No, but you know what, But what it does though,
Speaker 1: it gives us a plus one for podcast title set
Speaker 1: an episode. That's what it gives.
Speaker 3: So it was all did anyone catch the Jirell line
Speaker 3: of like, but it was your time in Smallville with
Speaker 3: Jonathan and Martha Kent and all the other people there,
Speaker 3: so like like and the rest, we're not going to
Speaker 3: name everybody you know, and Whitney and b Girl.
Speaker 2: Sure yeah, Sureriff Adams, I got you, guys, I mean
Speaker 2: like you no, no, no, really, like thinking about the
Speaker 2: reason the really kick started this podcast was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I know I know the name because I remember that
Speaker 2: line from the show. I was like, that's the perfect
Speaker 2: title for a podcast. I always want to do Smallville.
Speaker 2: It's meta because the small is the town saw the show.
Speaker 2: But I haven't sooner agree with you guys, because like
Speaker 2: the John the canty served on a purpose, you would
Speaker 2: feel his absence more if he wasn't there instead of
Speaker 2: like being in a geas all the time.
Speaker 4: Like except instead of being in like six scenes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I really want to know what direction they
Speaker 2: gave John Schneider because like it's it's like he's kind
Speaker 2: of there and he's not. He's on the fringes right,
Speaker 2: but then he decides to like before he like touches
Speaker 2: Clark's hand or Martha's shoulder, like he like hesitates and
Speaker 2: like like hmm, I'm gonna do it, like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: cross that barrier or something right, And I'm like, who
Speaker 2: are you a spirit? Are you their imagination? Like I
Speaker 2: want to know what they told him he was, But
Speaker 2: as y'all mentioned earlier, I think my favorite aspect of
Speaker 2: ghost Dad was the fact that he changed clothes for
Speaker 2: the wedding, like but it was still flannel. It was
Speaker 2: just darker, Like he cleaned up nice for the wedding.
Speaker 4: It's his fancy flannels aslannel.
Speaker 2: I just it's bizarre. It really is so bizarre. So
Speaker 2: if Clark, I did like the scene, the little nugget
Speaker 2: of a scene when Oliver comes to see Clark he's
Speaker 2: in the graveyard. He's like, hey, you know all the
Speaker 2: things I remember about graduating, I don't remember anything about
Speaker 2: the day, so my parents weren't there, right, And he
Speaker 2: tries to connect with them, and Clark's like whatever, because Clark,
Speaker 2: that's how he is on the show. But like if
Speaker 2: you had seen Martha sitting in the pew and like
Speaker 2: there's that space, like they framed the shot that space
Speaker 2: next to Martha, you'd be like, oh man, that's like
Speaker 2: you see like a ray of sunlight going in the
Speaker 2: through the window to that spot. That would have been
Speaker 2: far more effective than than John Schneider just like walking
Speaker 2: around like so nice to see John Schneider, but just
Speaker 2: bizarre usage of him. We kind of touched on John Glover.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was unfortunate that we didn't get a
Speaker 2: scene between Lex and uh Lionel again, but I understand
Speaker 2: that their time was limited. So Chloe was fine, I guess.
Speaker 2: I mean she kind of exited the scene pretty early.
Speaker 1: She said before she left, she said that she's going
Speaker 1: to Star City. Where is star City?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Like in regards to Smallville, Kansas?
Speaker 3: And what timeframe is it in?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it' supposed to be Seattle, so she's supposed to
Speaker 1: go with the there was a little apocalypse happening. She's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Star City. It's like, girl, what, like,
Speaker 1: how are you gonna get there?
Speaker 4: I think Chloe's I also, can we all understand Chloe
Speaker 4: being like I have done your dirty work and not
Speaker 4: been loved by you for ten years. If this is
Speaker 4: how it's gonna happen, then like bye, cool.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't say anything. I'm just happy that she
Speaker 2: ended up with the Batman of this universe if she
Speaker 2: didn't give the Superman. Is everybody happy with that?
Speaker 3: Sure? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah she.
Speaker 3: Earned that.
Speaker 4: Justin Hartley, she earned it.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure that if they made a real green
Speaker 2: arrow show, he would n't up with the Black Canary.
Speaker 2: I mean, they wouldn't make him get with some like
Speaker 2: blonde computer hacker person again. But anyway, an itt o'tool.
Speaker 2: Clark says the most disrespectful thing he's ever said to
Speaker 2: his mom in this episode because he's not gonna sell
Speaker 2: the farm, and she's like, I didn't want you to misunderstood.
Speaker 2: This is our home. You have to embrace the past.
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm sorry, mom, but you do have to
Speaker 2: move on. Like that was the most condescending jerked your mom?
Speaker 2: But an that old tool was. I mean, I liked
Speaker 2: her in the episode.
Speaker 4: She's always she's always fire and like. Even though there
Speaker 4: was one of the most condescending lines in that scene,
Speaker 4: it was it was still one of the best acting
Speaker 4: scenes in the episode.
Speaker 2: In the finale, absolutely it was on Yes, so test Mercer.
Speaker 2: You know, I came to really love Cassidy Freedman's character
Speaker 2: and in her performance on the show. They really never
Speaker 2: knew what to do with her because they didn't know
Speaker 2: if she was good or bad, and they decided to
Speaker 2: rick on her and Alexis sister, which I am convinced
Speaker 2: they did not know that because they kind of implied
Speaker 2: they had like a thing going on, you know, in
Speaker 2: season eight, Like I mean Lex, you know, incest, I
Speaker 2: don't know, he's a bad guy. So Game of Thrones
Speaker 2: hashtag finalees topical. I f also bad for Tests in
Speaker 2: this episode because she had no scenes with any other characters.
Speaker 2: She's running around trying to save the world. She gets kidnapped.
Speaker 2: It was really awesome to see her save herself because
Speaker 2: she is a Checkmate trained agent, so on you right,
Speaker 2: But then she gets killed by Lex at the end.
Speaker 2: So like I felt really bad for Tests, Like what
Speaker 2: a tragic into this character.
Speaker 1: It was just not a good ending for her. It
Speaker 1: was just it was very unceremonious, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like she's she's just literally by herself and all that
Speaker 1: work for nothing.
Speaker 3: Basically at least she gets to have the Rosenbaum scene,
Speaker 3: you know, like that that kind of felt like, here's
Speaker 3: the promise fulfilled to the fact that she's a luthoriit
Speaker 3: it sucked that she he wasn't with Lionel, but it
Speaker 3: was nice to see them square off. It was very
Speaker 3: strange to see him the scene before talk about his
Speaker 3: sister that he's never actually met on screen, but I
Speaker 3: liked her getting to use that was the gu.
Speaker 2: Almost were almost there, Victor. Do you have anything to say, Victoria?
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry so sorry, No, No, it's fine.
Speaker 4: I was just gonna say, like, well, it's just like,
Speaker 4: who can you afford to kill off? You have to
Speaker 4: have some deaths in the fin alley? But like She's
Speaker 4: was an invention of the show, right, I think?
Speaker 2: So, well, well, technically, what do you hate Chloye so much? Mad?
Speaker 2: Why why you like.
Speaker 4: That?
Speaker 2: We're way past killing Chloe at this point. I know,
Speaker 2: at this point, Lex does have a sister in the comics,
Speaker 2: Lena Luther. Okay, her middle name is Lena, her name
Speaker 2: is Lutessa Lena Luther because Smallville folks. I agree, Matt
Speaker 2: her having a rosenbom scene kind of made up for
Speaker 2: most of her isolation and tragic end. So let's talk
Speaker 2: about it. Lover hate this finale no matter where you
Speaker 2: fall in the spectrum. I mean, I have my issues
Speaker 2: with it, but it would have been an epic fail
Speaker 2: on all levels if Rosenbaumen and returns Lex. It's that simple.
Speaker 2: Like this show, you can say it's about Clark Lina Lex.
Speaker 2: I mean, but Lana kind of fell off. They were
Speaker 2: the three main characters at the beginning. But ultimately this
Speaker 2: show is about Clark and Lex Clark Kent Lex Luthor,
Speaker 2: their journeys to become the Lex Luthor of the comic books,
Speaker 2: the greatest roll amount of our time, and then Clark
Speaker 2: Kent becoming Superman, and without those parallel journeys, you know,
Speaker 2: what is the point of the show. So yes, he
Speaker 2: was gone for a couple of seasons. I actually, you know,
Speaker 2: I love season nine and there's a lot of great
Speaker 2: stuff in season eight, and he had been a presence
Speaker 2: in season ten. It was very clever. They didn't really know.
Speaker 2: They knew they had to get him back. They're like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna clone him. He's gonna be a case be old.
Speaker 2: We don't parallel universes are now in play, like, we
Speaker 2: don't know how we're gonna do it. But there was
Speaker 2: enough on the table where they could pull in Alex
Speaker 2: Luthor and have him for the finale one way or
Speaker 2: the other. And that was smart. And you know, up
Speaker 2: to the last minute, they did not think they were
Speaker 2: gonna get Rosamond back. I mean, like, like I remember
Speaker 2: the headlines, like Michael Rosamom says no to the finale,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, my life is that
Speaker 2: is over? Like I've wasted ten years of my life.
Speaker 3: What what is it?
Speaker 1: He literally was like this, I can I can confirm.
Speaker 2: Hell man.
Speaker 3: Like at like several conventions that year, he would just
Speaker 3: keep getting asked and like no, guys, I'm sorry and me.
Speaker 4: Do you think he was trying to make it a
Speaker 4: surprise no money.
Speaker 2: That's why they gave him a million dollars or whatever
Speaker 2: the hell it was.
Speaker 3: And I think it was a good move.
Speaker 4: It was I think it. I think it was a
Speaker 4: million dollars.
Speaker 1: It's the movie equivalent of like an athlete holding out
Speaker 1: from training camp, like they're trying to get that contract.
Speaker 2: Higher if Rosamund doesn't come back. First of all, I
Speaker 2: don't know what they do for Lex in the finale,
Speaker 2: some stock footage, some audio looking out the window, reflection,
Speaker 2: like I mean, you can fan edit it. It's funny
Speaker 2: because because I was sharing a last scene small with
Speaker 2: some people on YouTube, you know, years ago, and I
Speaker 2: show him the last scene it has Lex becoming the president,
Speaker 2: and like, oh that's cool with like a fan make this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do you mean. You're like, yeah, well
Speaker 2: looks like I mean, good for the fan who ever
Speaker 2: made this, but this is clearly like just threw this together, right.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, they filmed this for the actual show.
Speaker 2: This is this is legitimate. They're like, you're serious, because
Speaker 2: it does. He was done for a day. So basically
Speaker 2: what they did they had him standing from a green
Speaker 2: screen and turn around, fit on that white suit. Yeah
Speaker 2: he's president. Check, and then you have him taking off
Speaker 2: the mask. Check. Because I remember in the interviews she
Speaker 2: said he did four things. He was there one day
Speaker 2: and he had four things. I'm like, okay, that's two.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: I thought this was a great scene if if you
Speaker 2: take out the mind wipe thing, you can actually edit
Speaker 2: around it. I've played with this before because he kills
Speaker 2: her and then he walks and looks up and looks
Speaker 2: out the Window're like, oh, that's great because he says,
Speaker 2: I'm actually saving you from becoming me, which is a
Speaker 2: great lex Luthor mentality. I believe lex Or thinks that.
Speaker 2: And then and then she has the ultimate dig at
Speaker 2: and she's like Clark already did that because he hates
Speaker 2: Superman and Clark I'm well, that's great, but then she
Speaker 2: reaches out with her hand and wipes his face, and
Speaker 2: we're like, then they act like we're supposed to know
Speaker 2: what this is, which is infuriating. And then they erase
Speaker 2: his memory and it's like she's like, what, well I remember?
Speaker 2: She's like nothing. I'm like, what do you mean?
Speaker 3: Is he not?
Speaker 2: Does he remember? Does he remember anything of his entire life?
Speaker 2: Is he a blank slate? Like this? This was in
Speaker 2: to your point, Victoria. Yeah, they kept trying to like, hey,
Speaker 2: we got to make it like it was in the
Speaker 2: seventy eight movie or the comic books, like lux doesn't
Speaker 2: know who Superman is. I'm like, no, you don't need
Speaker 2: to do that. You don't have any more story to tell.
Speaker 2: You can have Lex Luthor, No Clark a Superman. He
Speaker 2: already had a brilliant scene. And why I don't know
Speaker 2: why they felt the need to erase his memory. What
Speaker 2: do you guys think about this?
Speaker 1: I just think they were just trying to get to
Speaker 1: the status quo, which is that I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but I think that's what they were doing. So again, like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand the reasoning for it, but their reasoning
Speaker 1: is like to the people that don't know anything. They're
Speaker 1: just like, oh, well, Lex Luthor doesn't know his identity.
Speaker 1: It's a secret, so we have to get rid of it.
Speaker 1: We have to make him no know somehow, and that's
Speaker 1: what they came up with. So obviously I disagree with him,
Speaker 1: and I think we're all in agreement on that, because
Speaker 1: it's just it's I think that that's just the wrong
Speaker 1: move and it makes no sense, especially when they literally
Speaker 1: bring it out a left field for this moment in
Speaker 1: the finale, right before it ends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretquel Titus, you know, it's exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 3: It's they're feeling hamstrung, being tied into how it should be.
Speaker 3: But at that point, we'd already lived whatever two or
Speaker 3: three years with the fact that okay, he knows now,
Speaker 3: like that's just what this version of Superman is. So
Speaker 3: I was kind of looking forward to how are they
Speaker 3: going to set it up so that he can't just,
Speaker 3: you know, get on his loudspeaker and say like Clark
Speaker 3: Candon Superman and go from there. But obviously they went
Speaker 3: the easier way.
Speaker 4: Well, and I think, like thinking about that, Matt, I
Speaker 4: think they did it in an interesting way too, with
Speaker 4: the scene between Clark and Lax because he's like we
Speaker 4: need each other or like we are like I'm defined
Speaker 4: by you. It's like the Magneto Doctor Xavier thing. So
Speaker 4: like they know each other, they have this history and sorry,
Speaker 4: I'm an AVENGERSS girl and not an X Men girl,
Speaker 4: and like that history. Like the fact that they shared
Speaker 4: a history and we're once friends is like such a
Speaker 4: huge part of that.
Speaker 2: Are you coming in? Why do you ask questions? Would like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I agree with God, that's the dynamic. I wanted to
Speaker 2: see between them absolutely, but.
Speaker 4: Honestly, and I know we had a lot of montages,
Speaker 4: but for some reason, the Lex Lucia's Memory montage is
Speaker 4: very impactful for me. You know what was not impactful
Speaker 4: was the ride at Universal Studios. I felt that I
Speaker 4: went on in nineteen eighty seven when dark Side John
Speaker 4: Glover Lionel throws Clark through the barn and then you
Speaker 4: go into his pupil and we literally watched three minutes
Speaker 4: of small Voe clips and the cheesiest music is playing,
Speaker 4: and I just like my skin crawled for Tom Wealling.
Speaker 4: I mean, like think because he's just like looking like
Speaker 4: sid like just like looking now look over here, Tom,
Speaker 4: look over there, look over here, look over there. Why egregious?
Speaker 4: Like everything had been like camp at this point. It
Speaker 4: just had gone into camp and it wasn't like good camp.
Speaker 4: It was bad camp. But I was like, you know,
Speaker 4: it's the last one. They're trying to make it super
Speaker 4: many and I feel like they're trying to go for
Speaker 4: the seventy eight comic book vibe. So okay, again, it's
Speaker 4: our last hurrah.
Speaker 2: I'll go with it.
Speaker 4: And then they did the clip show and it literally
Speaker 4: felt like an amusement park ride, and I was like,
Speaker 4: I can't do this.
Speaker 3: That's a good point on the camp. Like I was thinking,
Speaker 3: as it's going, like there are aspects of the Superman
Speaker 3: mythology that, like, I feel like the show thinks are stupid.
Speaker 3: Here it is, you know, like they're really ignoring it.
Speaker 3: And like I liked that last scene, but some of
Speaker 3: that kind of felt like here's your stupid here, you know,
Speaker 3: great Seizar's ghost or whatever, and it's like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: that's a great Caesar's ghost. You know, come on. Yeah,
Speaker 3: good point on the camp, Victoria.
Speaker 2: That's a good nineteen eighty seven Universal Studios. Right, that's
Speaker 2: perfect because you're right, it just stops. Like I didn't.
Speaker 2: I like, I was, I know, we were just in
Speaker 2: here watching it right before we recording, and I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: no one says anything. I thought Jirell from I remember,
Speaker 2: I thought Durell was like narrating or something. But no,
Speaker 2: it's just duh, duh, generic hero music and inspiration and
Speaker 2: here's the last ten years and who's this line of
Speaker 2: person we've seen? Is it in the episode? But but
Speaker 2: but I was like, you know what do they have
Speaker 2: him saving the dog? And then they had oh it's Crypto.
Speaker 2: All good, okay, so they have him saving Crypto, so
Speaker 2: everything was fine, but he saved the missile, like there
Speaker 2: are some great moments and I'm like, oh that's cool,
Speaker 2: that's cool, But why do they need to show us that?
Speaker 2: I mean order?
Speaker 1: Also, they put it like all the events were out
Speaker 1: of order, like say things like with Lex's too like
Speaker 1: cause I get what they're trying to do, Like you know,
Speaker 1: with Clark, he's going like when his montage is like, oh,
Speaker 1: all the moments where he saved the day and all
Speaker 1: his trials leading up to him becoming Superman, And with Lex,
Speaker 1: it should have been like all the stuff going backwards
Speaker 1: instead of starting from the beginning and going up to
Speaker 1: a certain point. And then all of a sudden it
Speaker 1: was like, oh remember all the Lexana stuff, like that's
Speaker 1: what happened with lex.
Speaker 2: I was like, what they just throw it in there,
Speaker 2: because I think we were also said, well, you know,
Speaker 2: at least they're keeping your collage order and then boom,
Speaker 2: it's complete, completely chaos. It's like they were editing or not. Crap,
Speaker 2: we need more clips. Well just put him in at
Speaker 2: the end, you know. And with Lex's we see a
Speaker 2: memory that he never experienced. Is the one with him
Speaker 2: the trench coat outside the fortress that never happened, that
Speaker 2: never he It looks like he got transported there at
Speaker 2: the end of commencement when he's just like in the
Speaker 2: snow and he's like, doesn't know what's going on. That
Speaker 2: is not a deleted scene from a quest or Sleeper.
Speaker 2: The trailer for it. You see Lexa to Parka walking
Speaker 2: up to the Fortress of Solitude. That is from the
Speaker 2: deleted scenes from Veritas, which have never released, by the way,
Speaker 2: some of them. But that was gonna be the cliffhanger
Speaker 2: season seven if Veritos was the scene finale, Lex was
Speaker 2: gonna use find that box in Zurich from season seven,
Speaker 2: open it up, go to the fortress in his parka
Speaker 2: and go in, just like Gene Hackmand in Superman two.
Speaker 2: That was gonna be the cliffhanger of season seven. And
Speaker 2: now if Roseman didn't come back after that, I don't
Speaker 2: know what the hell they would have done, but that
Speaker 2: was the idea. Rosen mom said he shot some stuff
Speaker 2: out there in the Arctic as well, so I think
Speaker 2: maybe for season five they shot Chloe Alex out there.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing I can think of, because he's
Speaker 2: wearing the clothes he was in commencement, but he's outside
Speaker 2: the I spent a lot of time thinking about this
Speaker 2: and researching, so like he's wearing the coat he was
Speaker 2: wearing the he was in convincement. And remember Chloe and
Speaker 2: Lex both get zapped, you know there, Maybe they thought
Speaker 2: about zapping them both out there. Maybe they didn't know
Speaker 2: so why they were there. They're like, let's let's get
Speaker 2: Michael out there in the snow or something. So they
Speaker 2: had this clip, but I don't know why it ended
Speaker 2: up in the series finale with something that never happened.
Speaker 2: You have ten seven years of footage to choose from
Speaker 2: for him, and you choose something that never happened.
Speaker 3: I hate that, and no Darth Lex either, what the hell?
Speaker 4: But I did appreciate the close aspects of this episode.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to be positive, and there were moments that
Speaker 4: got me very nostalgic.
Speaker 2: Let's do this, let's do this, let's let's be positive. Yes, So, Victoria,
Speaker 2: what are like three things you love about the finale? Again?
Speaker 4: I really do love the scene where they read each
Speaker 4: other's vows. I get god, I'm sorry. I think they're
Speaker 4: all gonna be close. I love the scene where they
Speaker 4: bump into each other on the stairs. I don't know,
Speaker 4: because I think also it's like there's this just feeling
Speaker 4: of this there was. They had these fleeting moments where
Speaker 4: there was this very acute feeling of nostalgia that I experienced.
Speaker 4: It was like, it's like my special happy, nostalgic Smallville feeling.
Speaker 4: And I think that's what gets me so impassioned when
Speaker 4: we're talking about this, because I'm like, you guys, you
Speaker 4: guys had it like you were you had it and
Speaker 4: then you pushed it too far. But I really appreciated
Speaker 4: the moments where they captured it excellent.
Speaker 2: What about you, Matt, What were three things you loved
Speaker 2: about this from Noale?
Speaker 3: So two of them are clearly likes related, but just
Speaker 3: the fact that kind of there it's not their exact
Speaker 3: last moments, but their last moments together are just that, like,
Speaker 3: straight up, you're going to try to do this, and
Speaker 3: I'm going to always be there to stop you. Oh,
Speaker 3: I'm counting on it. Like the acting. There was just
Speaker 3: everything I wanted from him. And it's a weird thing,
Speaker 3: but like I remember being so excited when we heard
Speaker 3: that Rosenbaum was definitely coming back and like freaking out
Speaker 3: the first picture. Yeah, the first picture they released was
Speaker 3: of him in the bald cap, sitting in the chair
Speaker 3: behind the desk in the office at Luther Court and
Speaker 3: just like seeing that scene again today really just like
Speaker 3: it was such a fulfilling thing and as a fan
Speaker 3: watching at the anticipation of this finale was so far
Speaker 3: beyond like nostalgia looking back, like what the actual finale
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 2: They made a Lex Luthor specific trailer. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you remember it made.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do remember that. It was huge. It was
Speaker 3: so exciting.
Speaker 5: They say every man is a dark side aside, he
Speaker 5: keeps hidden hidden from the light from friends, from loved ones,
Speaker 5: hiven from the side.
Speaker 3: We have the destiny together.
Speaker 5: Clark on the undifferent side. I'm not different, man.
Speaker 3: I watched Lucid Lexi going to the nostalgia thing too,
Speaker 3: that Superman you know in me was was aided when
Speaker 3: when you heard Perry's voice, when you just like they
Speaker 3: were back. They those two characters were in The Daily
Speaker 3: Planet with Perry White, and that was just that's all, Like.
Speaker 4: We've like pulled into the station, our journeys.
Speaker 3: Complete, exactly, Yes, like everyone's where they should be, especially
Speaker 3: in this little in this building exactly. That's what.
Speaker 2: What are your top three things you loved here?
Speaker 1: Clark and Oliver's seen at the graveyard. I thought that
Speaker 1: was really good, you know, the two of them being bros,
Speaker 1: which for some reason was hard for them to like
Speaker 1: show on the show because every time they tried doing it,
Speaker 1: one of them was being like a dick to the
Speaker 1: other and was not like being very receptive. And so
Speaker 1: it even happened in this one also because Clark was
Speaker 1: kind of dismissive, but like I loved Oliver's attempt at
Speaker 1: trying to reach out to his friend and just you know,
Speaker 1: just trying to be there for him. I like that.
Speaker 1: Of course, Clark and Lexis scene, it makes you know
Speaker 1: this finale worth watching. And then Clark and Lois at
Speaker 1: the beginning, when is just very confident that the two
Speaker 1: of them are going to get married that day, and
Speaker 1: it's convincing Lois that that's what needs to happen. And
Speaker 1: then Lois also having a valid argument for why she
Speaker 1: thinks that they shouldn't. She was hesitant about sharing a
Speaker 1: life with somebody that the world needed, and she thought
Speaker 1: she was doing the right thing by doing so. But
Speaker 1: I love that little hiccup right there in their relationship.
Speaker 1: I like that for me.
Speaker 2: I would say probably number three with the Oliver Clark
Speaker 2: scene in the graveyard. Number two would be the lex
Speaker 2: test scene, even though the memory ration is just a
Speaker 2: horrible decision and defeats the purpose of the entire show.
Speaker 2: And then finally would be the Clark and lex scene.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about this when we'll wrap up here.
Speaker 2: This is the best scene in the finale. This justifies
Speaker 2: the finale being the way it is. This is just
Speaker 2: like the perfect way to cap off their relationship and
Speaker 2: just but it's distinctly Smallville as well, Like can't say
Speaker 2: I love what you've done with the place, right, That's
Speaker 2: that's the small little Lex Luthor right there. But you know,
Speaker 2: and he looks a little different because the bald cap
Speaker 2: because we nobody looks like Ball a little bit larger.
Speaker 2: But he's a clone, right, so that's fine, Like in
Speaker 2: the universe, I'm com totally fine with that.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Apparently he could not clone a perfect hand because he
Speaker 2: wears that club because of the messed uff hand. They
Speaker 2: just had to do it whatever, But you know, for
Speaker 2: all the you know Lex Luthor, I thought that was
Speaker 2: really smart about season ten. Like in the com books,
Speaker 2: he does he clones himself. He has duplicates and all
Speaker 2: this stuff. So I believe that he came back in
Speaker 2: this way. There's a president for it. I think they
Speaker 2: probably should have said Lex zero was the original Lex
Speaker 2: and he like used clones to repair himself. I would
Speaker 2: have preferred that to like, this is a clone as well,
Speaker 2: because where memories come from. Smallvill doesn't understand how cloning
Speaker 2: works with like, hey, we clone all the Condorians, they
Speaker 2: remember their lives, No it doesn't work that way. You're
Speaker 2: blank slates, you know, clean slay the ultimate tool for
Speaker 2: the master thief. So hey, we got Lex and Clark
Speaker 2: and they had a final scene and I don't know
Speaker 2: what Smallvil would have done without it, it would have
Speaker 2: been so incomplete. So for all that I know, we've
Speaker 2: been pretty venting our frustrations as fans here because this
Speaker 2: is a big deal to us. I've been watching the
Speaker 2: show for years and this was the end, and we
Speaker 2: didn't feel satisfied. But that was satisfying. And even Lex
Speaker 2: says in that scene, he's like, Hey, that's the thing
Speaker 2: about memory, you can't forget them. So maybe that implies
Speaker 2: he'll get his memories back. I don't know, but they
Speaker 2: planted some seats there so that that was a great
Speaker 2: scene between the two of them, like I'm sorry, I
Speaker 2: couldn't save you ax any superspeeds away and then for
Speaker 2: that three minutes, this is the show that we all
Speaker 2: fell in love with back in the day between those guys.
Speaker 2: So so, ultimately, last question, did you find the finale satisfying? Yes? No,
Speaker 2: we're sort of Victoria. What's your answer.
Speaker 4: I'm a strong, sort of strong, sort of.
Speaker 2: Okay, what about you, Matt, I'll be a sort of yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what we wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Know, Brave, that's that scene was great.
Speaker 2: But overall, no, and see I'm not the negative one tonight, guys.
Speaker 2: Is I'm gonna say sort of stuff I loved.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was a long journey, so pass with
Speaker 3: flying sort of that's.
Speaker 1: New one Blue Ray DVD. This is where it's all
Speaker 1: been leading you become.
Speaker 3: That's great to say.
Speaker 4: More than two hours of special features the final season
Speaker 4: of Small Tale on Blue Ray and DVD November two,
Speaker 4: on the Complete series collection on DVD.
Speaker 2: All Right, I hope you all enjoyed our conversation about finale. Again,
Speaker 2: it's interesting to talk about it, and I'm sure listen
Speaker 2: to us talk about it as in close proximity to
Speaker 2: the podcast proper covering. It covered a lot of the
Speaker 2: same ground, I know, but look, it's the same episode.
Speaker 2: We had a little variation there. I know, Victoria came
Speaker 2: in a little more positive about things intentionally so and
Speaker 2: I appreciated that. Uh because yeah, guys, you know how
Speaker 2: I feel about it. I haven't had my feel things
Speaker 2: about the entire podcast. Not one of my favorite episodes, certainly,
Speaker 2: not one of my top ten episodes. But obviously it's
Speaker 2: important to a lot of y'all to make it in
Speaker 2: the top ten, number eight. Even so, even in the
Speaker 2: lower half of the top ten, the fact that is
Speaker 2: there shows that it worked for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: and it didn't work for me, but I am glad
Speaker 2: that it worked for so many other people. So I
Speaker 2: have nothing else to say about the serious finale. I've
Speaker 2: talked about it so much, especially this year. So let's
Speaker 2: talk about the music then. You know, I thought about this,
Speaker 2: is there a real banger here? There? You know, there's
Speaker 2: a pop song and during the wedding, but what is
Speaker 2: the banger song here? That has been the through line?
Speaker 2: What is the banger needle drop of the episodes? And
Speaker 2: you know what it is, y'all, the theme to Superman
Speaker 2: by John Williams. That's right. It doesn't counter as a
Speaker 2: traditional pop song with the fact that it's a piece
Speaker 2: of music that existed outside a small film and they
Speaker 2: brought it in and they played it. That works here,
Speaker 2: So a little bit of a stretch, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a stretch. The series finale's
Speaker 2: in the top ten. Okay, let's be honest. So Hey,
Speaker 2: the trend continues. That's the series finale, that's our discussion
Speaker 2: about It almost feels like an alternate version of the
Speaker 2: same discussion we had earlier this year on the podcast
Speaker 2: Proper because again a lot of the same people talking
Speaker 2: about a lot of the same episodes. But I am
Speaker 2: excited to move past the pilot, to move past the finale,
Speaker 2: and to get more into some individual episodes moving forward
Speaker 2: on our top ten list here. So stay tuned next
Speaker 2: next week to find out which episode is the number
Speaker 2: seven episode of Smallville as voted by you, the listeners,
Speaker 2: and until then, Always hold on To Smallville. Always Hold
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