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<v Speaker 1>Seven oh five, here a fifty five krc DE talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Tuesday one time's right here. Glad to be hosted

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<v Speaker 1>for fifty five Carcy Mornings. So especial when a guy

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<v Speaker 1>like Todd Zinser is in studio to talk about what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on in Washington, d C. Spent a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>time there because Todd was an inspector generally. He was

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<v Speaker 1>in DC for thirty one years conducting audits and investigations

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<v Speaker 1>of federal officials programs and operations. And he penned an

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<v Speaker 1>op ed piece to the Cincinni Inquirer of the new

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<v Speaker 1>igs and Doge should collaborate Todd, It's always great to

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<v Speaker 1>have you in studio, my friend. Thank you, Brian, Good morning,

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning. Let's start with, you know, ten thousand foot view.

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<v Speaker 1>What do before we get to the idea of Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump firing them? What do inspector generals do? What are

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<v Speaker 1>they tasked with? What are their day to day responsibilities?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? The Inspectors General are based on a nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>eight law called the ig Act of nineteen seventy eight.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been amended a couple of times, but it basically

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<v Speaker 2>puts Inspectors general in each of the department or cabinet

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<v Speaker 2>departments and numerous other agencies. And it basically has two sides.

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<v Speaker 2>They have an investigative side and they have an audit side.

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<v Speaker 2>An audit is very expansive. It's it security audits, contract audits,

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<v Speaker 2>grant audits, financial statement audits. They do the whole thing,

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<v Speaker 2>and on investigations. They do investigations of fraud against the government,

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<v Speaker 2>criminal cases, and they also do administrative cases involving misconduct

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<v Speaker 2>and other rule violations and things like that. They operate

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<v Speaker 2>a hotline for fraud, waste and abuse reports, and they

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<v Speaker 2>have a dual reporting requirement. They report to both the

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<v Speaker 2>Secretary of the Department. They have a reporting obligation to Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're like stuck in the middle. And in years

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<v Speaker 2>past they've been described as straddling a barbed wire fence.

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<v Speaker 2>So there are i think right now, seventy four Inspectors General.

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<v Speaker 2>Back in nineteen seventy eight, I think it started with

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<v Speaker 2>a dozen, and it's just expanded. And there are igs

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<v Speaker 2>that are appointed by the president and there are igs

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<v Speaker 2>that are appointed by the head of their independent agency.

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<v Speaker 2>So the igs that Trump removed, it's called removal in

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<v Speaker 2>the federal government not firing, but the ones that he

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<v Speaker 2>removed are all from most For the most part, they're

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<v Speaker 2>from the cabinet departments. There's only two cabinet departments that

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<v Speaker 2>were not affected. Two IGS and cabinet departments that were

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<v Speaker 2>not affected. One was Justice Michael Horowitz and the other

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<v Speaker 2>was the IG at the Department of Homeland Security, who

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<v Speaker 2>is currently doing cases or investigations of the Secret Service

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<v Speaker 2>and what happened with the assassination attempts. So those are

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<v Speaker 2>the only two. All the other igs removed came from

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<v Speaker 2>cabinet departments. There are a couple of agencies, like the

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<v Speaker 2>IG for Afghan Reconstruction, I guess was removed for some reason.

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<v Speaker 2>He was actually a good IG. But the focus is

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<v Speaker 2>on the departments.

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<v Speaker 1>Now this I guess what I consider. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>pick a department, and I don't think you can find

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<v Speaker 1>a single department in the federal government that hasn't been

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<v Speaker 1>accused of or allowed fraud, waste, and abuse to occur

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<v Speaker 1>under its watch. I mean Medicare, Medicaid, social Security, the

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<v Speaker 1>PPP loan program. We go down the entire list of

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<v Speaker 1>any government program. People are constantly committing acts of fraud,

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<v Speaker 1>and billions and billions of dollars could be saved if

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<v Speaker 1>that was ferreted out. So that that has happened and

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<v Speaker 1>continues to happen over I would argue deck aids that

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<v Speaker 1>failure lies in the lapse of the IGS.

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<v Speaker 2>Then, well, to a certain extent it does. They have

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<v Speaker 2>to I mean they have to have a good program

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<v Speaker 2>in place to identify their risks in the department. They

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<v Speaker 2>look at programs and say, what are the risks in

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<v Speaker 2>these departments that is going to be defrauded and they're

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to identify that and report those And the fact

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<v Speaker 2>is that the programs are set up in such a

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<v Speaker 2>way that they're easy to defraud. Yeah, and there's not

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot the IG can do across the board

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<v Speaker 2>like that. But if they have a case, or if

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<v Speaker 2>they have an audit that they perform, they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>make a recommendation for improvements. And they're not the most

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<v Speaker 2>well funded agencies in the federal government.

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<v Speaker 1>I can tell you that well, I can understand that,

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean therein lies the challenge. If billions of

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<v Speaker 1>dollars are being misspent or stolen, I can make the

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<v Speaker 1>argument then it will be a great allocation of resources

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<v Speaker 1>to improve the funding to allow the its to actually

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do their job and ferret out this

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<v Speaker 1>waste and abuse and fraud.

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<v Speaker 2>Right and and not to be too cynical, but like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll go ahead, there's been there's been special Inspectors General

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<v Speaker 2>set up for various reasons, like Pandemic Relief, the Recovery Act.

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<v Speaker 2>They set up special igs to focus on those areas.

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<v Speaker 2>And when they do that, Congress is able to say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we put an IG in place, so we have fixed

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<v Speaker 2>that problem. The IG is on the case when it's

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<v Speaker 2>really kind of just window dressing in a lot of cases,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh exactly, they put an IG in place, but they

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<v Speaker 2>don't give the IG all the resources here or she

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<v Speaker 2>needs so.

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<v Speaker 1>Or as you put it out a moment ago. Congress

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<v Speaker 1>is the ones who is the one who created the

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<v Speaker 1>program or passed the law that's being followed in its implementation.

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<v Speaker 1>But the law itself has so many giant holes in

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<v Speaker 1>it that allow this easy fraud to occur. They don't

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<v Speaker 1>go back and fix the problem that they started with this,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a poorly written law.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, like the the pandemic relief programs, like the people PPP,

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<v Speaker 2>the pandemic relief has been defrauded by hundreds of billions

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<v Speaker 2>of dollars. Yeah, so in situations like that, there are

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<v Speaker 2>some things the igs can do, but not much really.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh all right, well, sorry conclusion on that from Todd Zenzer,

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<v Speaker 1>But he was in this role and he knows what

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<v Speaker 1>he's talking about. Is there any argument that these now

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<v Speaker 1>fired igs can make that they're allowed to keep their job?

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<v Speaker 1>I know there's been a tradition of presidents keeping in

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<v Speaker 1>place and this is the subject matter of your op

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<v Speaker 1>ed piece. New igs and doges should collaborate, Obviously. Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump's wants is a new sheriff in town. He wants

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<v Speaker 1>his own people there, people who are aligned with his

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<v Speaker 1>message about ferreting out fraud, waste, and abuse and cutting

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<v Speaker 1>the size and the scope of government. So I get

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<v Speaker 1>his motivation, But do they have any claim to the

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<v Speaker 1>job that they have been removed from? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, back in two thousand and eight, Congress was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to put some kind of protection in place for the igs,

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<v Speaker 2>and the original idea was to establish some kind of

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<v Speaker 2>four cause standard for igs that they couldn't be fired

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<v Speaker 2>at will. The president would have to establish some cause

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<v Speaker 2>to fire them. Well, that never happened, and instead, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>they compromised and put this reporting requirement in place that

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<v Speaker 2>the president had to give Congress thirty days. Notice why,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't really know. I never understood what was supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to happen in those thirty days, except maybe give the

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<v Speaker 2>IG a couple more paychecks or give Congress time to

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<v Speaker 2>build a big frenzy around it. But it really has

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<v Speaker 2>no purpose. And I think that Trump ignored that requirement

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<v Speaker 2>on purpose, on purpose because they don't think it's constitutional.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can see that that.

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<v Speaker 2>It interferes with the president's authority to hire and fire. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so I think they just ignored it. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>case involving the Consumer Financial Protection Board, the thing that

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<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Warren set up. They set that up completely outside

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<v Speaker 2>of the president's authority and Congress's authority. That is funded

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<v Speaker 2>by the Federal Reserve, and there is a fork. They

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<v Speaker 2>tried to put a four cause provision in there, and

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<v Speaker 2>that failed. Somebody sued them, and that no longer exists.

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<v Speaker 2>So they are now also under the authority of the president.

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<v Speaker 2>But the authority of the president to hire and fire

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty fundamental. Well, I would say, I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 2>his administration, and he the nation would well served if

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of IGS are out there undermining the administration's

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<v Speaker 2>aims and goals. Well, the other thing that goes on,

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<v Speaker 2>and it goes on under the radar, is back in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, I did a presentation for a group about

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<v Speaker 2>the IGS, and I went and looked at headlines in

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<v Speaker 2>the paper trying to figure out what the IGS were

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<v Speaker 2>up to, and article headline after headline after headline where

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<v Speaker 2>all of these reports about Democrats asking igs to investigate

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<v Speaker 2>the Trump administration for one reason or another. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, one of them was they wanted the Treasury

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<v Speaker 2>IG to investigate why the Harriet Tubman twenty dollars bill

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<v Speaker 2>was being delayed. I mean, that's that's the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>thing that Congress just tries to harass the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 2>back in twenty twenty at least. And I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>Trump wants to put up with that either. So he's

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<v Speaker 2>can imagine he's going to put his people in place

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<v Speaker 2>that will tell Congress, you know, we're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>do that. Plus he disrupts the relationship between the incumbent

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<v Speaker 2>IGS and Congress. You build a relationship with people in Congress,

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<v Speaker 2>congressmen and staff. Well, he's disrupted all of that with

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<v Speaker 2>these removals.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's pause. We'll bring Todd back and find out do

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<v Speaker 1>Inspectors General have to listen to folks in Congress badgering

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<v Speaker 1>them to investigate the president himself. Let's find out what

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<v Speaker 1>leverage they have with Todd Zen's or former Inspector General himself.

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<v Speaker 1>First word for Pressedisionterriers. You want a kitchen remodel project

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<v Speaker 1>the man that'll sit down, maybe in your own kitchen

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<v Speaker 1>an initial design to final installation, work out the details

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<v Speaker 1>of your kitchen. I strongly recommend when you're working with

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<v Speaker 1>John listen to some of the ideas he has because

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<v Speaker 1>they are brilliant. With more than thirty maybe thirty five

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<v Speaker 1>been there and done that. He knows what works, he

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<v Speaker 1>knows what doesn't, and he will kindly talk you away

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<v Speaker 1>from making mistakes and offering better solutions like storage solutions,

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<v Speaker 1>which we follow. John's recommendation on that and love how

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<v Speaker 1>John was able to find extra space in our kitchen

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<v Speaker 1>and it seemed like an impossible challenge, but no, it's

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<v Speaker 1>truly truly impressed with the work, the attention to detail,

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<v Speaker 1>and you'll enjoy working with John. I can assure you

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<v Speaker 1>of that. A real pleasant, pleasant man uh and again

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<v Speaker 1>knows what he's doing with all those years of experience. Experience,

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<v Speaker 1>learn more and maybe check out some of the prior

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<v Speaker 1>Atte said, Hi when you call him up to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about your kitchen. Five one three two four seven zero

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<v Speaker 1>two two nine five one three two four seven zero

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<v Speaker 1>two two nine.

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<v Speaker 2>This is fifty five krc an iHeartRadio station, Win.

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<v Speaker 1>The Wild Time for the Channel nine weather forecast. It's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be mostly sunny day today with a higher forty

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<v Speaker 1>two and some light win partly cloudy every night. Gusty

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<v Speaker 1>wins a lower thirty one. Sonny tomorrow for the most part,

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<v Speaker 1>forty five for the high down to twenty six overnight

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<v Speaker 1>with some clouds and a partly cloudy start. A Thursday

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<v Speaker 1>showers and rain shows up sometime in the evening. I

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<v Speaker 1>have forty seven on Thursday. Right now, it's thirty one

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<v Speaker 1>in type.

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<v Speaker 3>For traffic from you See Out Traffic Center. Expect more

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<v Speaker 3>and you see health more clinical trials, more treatment options

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<v Speaker 3>for personalized care, more chances to get you back to being.

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<v Speaker 3>You visit you seehealth dot com. A couple of accidents.

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<v Speaker 3>Northbound seventy five. There's a wreck at the very end

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<v Speaker 3>of the ramp from eastbound seventy four. The second wreck

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<v Speaker 3>is near Town Street. Was in the left lane, now

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<v Speaker 3>on the right shoulder, but traffic's backing up through Saint Bernard,

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<v Speaker 3>Chuck King, Vermont fifty five krc the talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>Fifty about KRCV talk station, Happy Tuesday. Todd's ins are

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<v Speaker 1>consider at city. He knows what he's talking about because

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<v Speaker 1>he was an inspector general, had to live in Washington,

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<v Speaker 1>d C. And he served his various different inspectors General.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess firing these inspectors centers makes all the sense

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<v Speaker 1>in the world, and he todd. As you've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>and as I asked you, given the scope of any

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<v Speaker 1>of these departments over which they set, getting a handle

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<v Speaker 1>on the job in and of itself has got to

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<v Speaker 1>be a long term proposition. I mean the size of

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<v Speaker 1>like the Medicare program or Social Security or Commerce, as

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<v Speaker 1>you just mentioned to me when you were when you

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<v Speaker 1>get centered to Commerce, like I really didn't even know

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<v Speaker 1>what commerce is all about. So I learned the.

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<v Speaker 2>Job right well. The the transition between igs goes on

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<v Speaker 2>and you have to rely on your You have to

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<v Speaker 2>rely on the staff there that they're still They've got

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<v Speaker 2>their audits planned and they're conducting their audits, and the

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<v Speaker 2>investigative side is doing their investigations. That the challenge is

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<v Speaker 2>to understand from the department's perspective what's going on, and

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<v Speaker 2>meeting with the heads of the departments, meeting with the

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<v Speaker 2>people in the departments that are really carrying out the programs.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to get out and you have to do

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of groundwork to really understand what the issues

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<v Speaker 2>are in the department. When I got to Commerce, I

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<v Speaker 2>went around to each departments and spoke to the leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's an example. I went to the Patent Office

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<v Speaker 2>right and talked about their challenges, and the big challenge

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<v Speaker 2>for them was how long what their backlog was. There's thousands,

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of thousands of patent applications in a backlog, and

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<v Speaker 2>I said, well, isn't the goal to reduce the backlog

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<v Speaker 2>to like zero or close to zero. Well, no, they

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<v Speaker 2>can't do that because if it gets too low, then

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<v Speaker 2>they don't have enough work for their patent examiners. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's like you run into things like that. They really

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<v Speaker 2>don't really don't make sense.

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<v Speaker 1>That doesn't make any sense.

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<v Speaker 3>It does.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's just an illustration of the stupidity of government,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. Because they do not have to earn to

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<v Speaker 1>keep themselves alive and to float like any other business.

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<v Speaker 1>They live off stealing money from us. They've got no

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<v Speaker 1>incentive to do their job. In order to keep the job,

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<v Speaker 1>they've dragged their feet.

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<v Speaker 2>We did one case at the Patent Office where they

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<v Speaker 2>hired all these paralegals because they were going to hire

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of additional patent judges. So they hired all

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<v Speaker 2>these paralegals, but they never got around to hiring the judges.

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<v Speaker 2>So these paralegals worked from home and did nothing, and

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<v Speaker 2>somebody finally got a guilty conscience that called the IG's

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<v Speaker 2>office and said, hey, we're sitting around getting paid to

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<v Speaker 2>do nothing. And they wasted millions and millions of dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>And what was crazy is they all got above average

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<v Speaker 2>performance appraisals and they got performance bonuses. Oh so things

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<v Speaker 2>like that happen.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you say it and you just wish it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't true, But in so many levels, it just doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>surprise me at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, it's a big The federal government is huge.

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<v Speaker 1>It's too big people.

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<v Speaker 2>People don't really appreciate how huge it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, going back to the idea that Congress can pester

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<v Speaker 1>one or other inspectors general to look into and investigate,

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<v Speaker 1>like say the president of the United States of America,

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<v Speaker 1>which has happened under Trump administration. Do the inspector general say,

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<v Speaker 1>Can they turn around and say, no, that's not my job.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm over the Commerce Department. I don't have anything to

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<v Speaker 1>investigate about Trump or fill in the black president. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the big controversies that the IG investigated

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<v Speaker 2>under Trump was when a Hurricane Dorian occurred and there

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<v Speaker 2>was all kinds of destruction. Trump had actually predicted that

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<v Speaker 2>the hurricanes path was going to be different than what

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<v Speaker 2>the Weather Service had predicted, and he used the little

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<v Speaker 2>marker to mark up their math. Yeah. Well, the IG

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<v Speaker 2>was requested to investigate all that, and it's like, why,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the big deal?

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the find out if Donald Trump's clairvoyant. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I demanded an answer. So that's the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that can go on, and it did. It did

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<v Speaker 1>go on with the Democrats when Trump came in. They

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<v Speaker 1>were sending all kinds of requests to the igs all

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<v Speaker 1>over the government. Well, you didn't restore my confidence in

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<v Speaker 1>the government, todd Sensor, just putting an exclamation point on

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<v Speaker 1>everything that we were fearing and worrying about. It's all true, folks,

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<v Speaker 1>It's a lot worse than you and I ever imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>Please Dear God, new sheriff in town lot, Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>and the DOGE team and everybody else, These new Inspector

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<v Speaker 1>General stick to the task of their job and fared

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<v Speaker 1>out the fraud wasted abuse on behalf of the American taxpayer.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have any optimism that that might happen time?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what I'm optimistic for is that a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>this is being done with these removals clear the path

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<v Speaker 2>for the IGS to align their YEAH resources and operations

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<v Speaker 2>with the Department of Government Efficiency the government that DOGE

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<v Speaker 2>has put teams in each department, but it's very small teams.

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<v Speaker 2>And if they could align with the IG and instead

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<v Speaker 2>of thinking of it as they want to prevent the

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<v Speaker 2>IGS from doing work, they need to view it as

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<v Speaker 2>they want the IGS to do specific, exactly targeted work

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<v Speaker 2>that will support what DOOSE just trying to do.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Hopefully that can happen. And let's face it, man, there

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<v Speaker 1>is a ton of low hanging fruit out there that

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<v Speaker 1>they could get rid of right away. Todd, you always

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<v Speaker 1>have a welcome spot here in the fifty five KRC

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<v Speaker 1>Morning Show. Appreciate your being able to tap into your

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge and expertise in these areas, and we'll look forward

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<v Speaker 1>to having you on the show again real soon seven

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six. Right now, folks, if you have KRCD talk stations,

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<v Speaker 1>five KRC dot com. Hello