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<v Speaker 1>Are we going.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going, let's go gold like punditry right, doing politics right.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think we should be as far away from

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<v Speaker 1>as possible act. I mean, I mean everybody does everybody

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<v Speaker 1>does that like we only we're the only people who

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<v Speaker 1>do us right. So the more we do us, the better.

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<v Speaker 2>That is fantastic. It's the IDEs of May. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is pop culture. But start again, well I start again?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it because I said pop culture and not?

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<v Speaker 1>That's funny?

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<v Speaker 2>And that's because I have this in my head and

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about it. So I'm not going

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<v Speaker 2>to start again. Glove culture May John pod Hornets talking here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm looking here. You're not seeing him, but I'm seeing

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<v Speaker 2>in I believe in Princeton, New Jersey, in Manhattan, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>in Manhattan, wearing a very nice striped shirt, and lie,

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<v Speaker 2>I like it. I'm enjoying it. And in his aria

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<v Speaker 2>in northwestern DC. Northwest DC, we don't say northwestern. See

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<v Speaker 2>is Jonah Goldberg?

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<v Speaker 1>Hi Jonah? Hello John.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to say before we start that, I

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<v Speaker 2>just I spent about an hour reading the dispatches New

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<v Speaker 2>Acquisitions Scotus Blogs live blog of the Supreme Court proceedings

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<v Speaker 2>today May fifteenth, and it was absolutely fascinating. It was great.

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<v Speaker 2>I read it. I wasn't doing it, I wasn't following

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<v Speaker 2>it live. I actually read it after after the blog

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<v Speaker 2>had finished, and therefore was able to sort of read

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<v Speaker 2>it chronologically to see where the argument was going and

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<v Speaker 2>how things were. It was lively, It was funny, interesting, good,

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<v Speaker 2>juicy details from Sarah Esker on the fact that Neil

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<v Speaker 2>Gorson's has a gigantic moose's head in his office and

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<v Speaker 2>Amy Cony Barrett has some kind of anyway, So.

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<v Speaker 1>What part of pop culture?

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<v Speaker 2>John, Yes, we're gonna so this is what we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to see.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this is gonna be the right Yeah, because

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<v Speaker 1>my question is my question is do you believe that

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<v Speaker 1>what you just said counts as pop cultures?

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<v Speaker 2>I think anything that I say counts as pop culture

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<v Speaker 2>because you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know what, I think it might have identified the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, now, okay, we have been doing this podcast. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe we're trying to figure out twelve years. Thirteen years.

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<v Speaker 2>You did it for a year before I joined with

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<v Speaker 2>mark Stein, and then mark Stein went off as mark

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<v Speaker 2>Stein is inclined to do, and I came on and

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<v Speaker 2>we have been having this conversation monthly in front of people,

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<v Speaker 2>and we have conversations not in front of people for decades,

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<v Speaker 2>and why it was monthly May we used to do

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<v Speaker 2>it every two week.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's true.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we still do it? I still do it. We

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<v Speaker 1>do it twice a month though.

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<v Speaker 2>No, we don't, but we could. But here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm worried, and I keep expressing my worry that we're

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<v Speaker 2>running out of gas, that we have had the conversations

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<v Speaker 2>right now that we're constantly defaulting to.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's true topics, but I think that is. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I can let John make the case before you get there.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have a case, you know. I just keep thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, have we had this exact conversation before

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<v Speaker 2>about the episode of The Odd Couple when Felix and

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<v Speaker 2>Oscar each tell the story of or how they first

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<v Speaker 2>four different how they first met shows, or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Have Have we done this before? Have we told our

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<v Speaker 2>anecdotes before? Have we talked about it? And we have

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<v Speaker 2>talked about because let's face it, we're not consumers of

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of pop culture that we once were when

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<v Speaker 2>we started right, We're not going to the movies as

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<v Speaker 2>much as we used to. We don't watch broadcast television.

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<v Speaker 1>This is this is our memory care facility here, that's

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<v Speaker 1>what this is. Everybody, half podcast, half early on set

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<v Speaker 1>kind of therapy.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if people knew the kinds of things that

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<v Speaker 2>I send to you guys offline from Facebook as a

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<v Speaker 2>result of Facebook, Like, do you think those people would do.

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<v Speaker 1>You think they would be surprised? Is that what you're No,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>But it would just show the depth that what is

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<v Speaker 2>an interest to me that can't be of interest to

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<v Speaker 2>anybody else on the planet Earth, which is like what

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<v Speaker 2>we're the highest rated shows in nineteen sixty seven in.

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<v Speaker 1>The discuss absolutely let me let me just say that Red.

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<v Speaker 2>Skelton's Variety Show was the second highest rated television program

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty seven. And let's just guess how many

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<v Speaker 2>people listening to my voice right now know the name

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<v Speaker 2>Red Skeleton.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, thirty of this audience, eighty percent of this audience,

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<v Speaker 3>because they're also pretty much in the same old agean we.

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<v Speaker 2>Are, okay, all right, of average Americans?

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<v Speaker 1>I once, yeah, I think that's a part of the

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<v Speaker 1>pop culture umbrella would include TikTok Uh, and TikTok is

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<v Speaker 1>a great place to watch TV if you don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to see TV. For instance, I mentioned a while back

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<v Speaker 1>that I hadn't seen that show Gilded Age, but I

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<v Speaker 1>actually went into TikTok and I said Gilded Age, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's like four like terrific scenes in it, and in

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<v Speaker 1>the whole series, I think, and I saw, I saw

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<v Speaker 1>them all, so I feel like I've seen the Guilded Age.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also some weird dude, John, who is I think

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<v Speaker 1>in some way probably has the other half of the

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<v Speaker 1>amulet you carry around your neck, who is uploading the

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<v Speaker 1>themes and title sequences to every night of primetime television

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<v Speaker 1>from the seventies on. And he's very melogous. It's Wednesday

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy three on NBC, and here's what you're watching.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he shows you what you were watching on NBC.

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<v Speaker 1>Sign severy three to me. Eventually, when the two of

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<v Speaker 1>you meet, it's going to be like, you know, he's murder.

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<v Speaker 1>He could write, well, he does that one too, he

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<v Speaker 1>could you. I would not be surprised if you were

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<v Speaker 1>once contacted by his doctor, because there you're a kidney match.

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<v Speaker 1>Put it that way, there's something very close to it.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's all sorts of there's also what we sometimes do,

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<v Speaker 1>which is we just we don't have a weird topic

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<v Speaker 1>that I mean, I chafe at because I just that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's my personality. Uh, and we kind of just go

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<v Speaker 1>off on little directions. We just kind of do our own,

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<v Speaker 1>our own weird thing, all right.

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<v Speaker 3>So, can I summarize the broad brushstrokes of this this

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<v Speaker 3>not so much disagreement but uh and not in a conflict,

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<v Speaker 3>but friction of visions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, oh here you go.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so so so.

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<v Speaker 3>John has been airing this reservation, these reservations about glop

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<v Speaker 3>for a while now with me, and I've mostly rejected them,

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<v Speaker 3>finding them fairly unpersuasive. And then in the wake of

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<v Speaker 3>last month our last episode, John said, Okay, here's what

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<v Speaker 3>I'm talking about. We try to talk about all these

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<v Speaker 3>things and Rob just doesn't care about pop culture anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was like, nah.

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<v Speaker 3>And since that episode was fairly fresh in my mind

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<v Speaker 3>because this text came mere minutes after the show, I said, well, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>that's a good point and we should talk about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I and you make a very.

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<v Speaker 3>Powerful case that basically what this podcast is, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>the glop culture, the pop culture part of it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Part of the stick.

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<v Speaker 3>But basically people tune in to listen to us gibbets

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<v Speaker 3>and bigger and reminisce and whatnot, and they they tend

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<v Speaker 3>to like it. And the fact that we're not doing

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<v Speaker 3>what the mission and it originally was as.

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<v Speaker 2>Much as we once were.

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<v Speaker 3>Most people who listen, by definition of the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>they're listening, they don't really give a rats ask. They

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<v Speaker 3>just want to hear us. You know, Uh, what's the

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<v Speaker 3>Yiddish word I'm looking for.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kibbits. It's a kibbe, it's kibbits schnor no, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not it a beggar. So anyway, snoring is begging. So

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<v Speaker 2>all right, so let me put it this way. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me let me just so, uh, I feel because in

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<v Speaker 2>a weird way, hosting duties, not that there is a host,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of devolved to me over time how this happened.

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<v Speaker 2>So I feel like I.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you'rey.

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<v Speaker 3>Joy give the mic to John, he'll host anything, or like.

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<v Speaker 2>A friend of mine realized he's an art historian and

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<v Speaker 2>he was sort of a young art historian and came

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<v Speaker 2>to get a job, his first tenure track job, and

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<v Speaker 2>people were like, hey, you're great, you are the greatest

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<v Speaker 2>thing ever. We want you to be chair of the department.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was like, oh my god, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>be chair of the department. And then he became chair

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<v Speaker 2>of the department. Of course, they all closed the door

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<v Speaker 2>and then burst out into gales of contemptuous left because

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<v Speaker 2>this is the worst job in the world, actually, being

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<v Speaker 2>a departmental chair at a second rank university where you

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<v Speaker 2>have no disciplinary authority or anything over anybody and you

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<v Speaker 2>just have to do administrative.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the new guy always gets a bad job. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean I've heard this from like uh old the old

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<v Speaker 1>but like middle middle career priests, episcopal priests, especially when

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<v Speaker 1>he started out. You know, the guy running the church,

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<v Speaker 1>the woman running church runs a little finger down the calendar.

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<v Speaker 1>It sees what the electionary calendar is, what the readings

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<v Speaker 1>are each Sunday. It decides that the Sunday where Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>says like, hey, if you're divorced, you're going to Hell,

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<v Speaker 1>or any of those really tough things. It's like, what

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<v Speaker 1>is the new guy do the sermon on that one right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, that's exactly it. So, so the hosting duty

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<v Speaker 2>has devolved to me, and then I feel this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of responsibility to introduce points of discussion, and Robin has

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<v Speaker 2>been your increasing habits not increasing, and I do that

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<v Speaker 2>to say, eh, so like.

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<v Speaker 1>That's and that is a fair criticism, rob That is

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<v Speaker 1>a fair I I I absolutely one hundred percent cop

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<v Speaker 1>to it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't mind in the sense that then I think

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you're saying, because all of these topics are boring,

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<v Speaker 2>how do you feel about the fact that HBO went

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<v Speaker 2>back to HBO Max And.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that about that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's good.

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<v Speaker 4>We should talk about that because that's delicious. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>that's hilarious. Okay, So I guess what I mean is

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<v Speaker 4>this is.

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<v Speaker 1>That uh uh uh you ever gone on one of

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<v Speaker 1>those well, I know, Joan of the answer to drones. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to one of those NR cruises.

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<v Speaker 2>We've all we've all.

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<v Speaker 3>We of this podcast stretched back into the Okay, so wow,

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<v Speaker 3>you just came up with that right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, back in the midst of I have an allergic

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<v Speaker 1>reaction to the cruise industry and their need to corral

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<v Speaker 1>you and organize you into areas in which you were

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<v Speaker 1>told where to be at a certain time, even when

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<v Speaker 1>that is inconvenience. So the idea, especially when you dis embark,

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<v Speaker 1>there's this, well you're purple, so you you will, We'll

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<v Speaker 1>call for purple. And I'm like, this is the stupidest thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not playing this game. And when they say, well

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing I remember having it. I rarely have a Melton, Right,

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<v Speaker 1>but are you calling me?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you saying no?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I think that was a well run ship. But

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<v Speaker 1>I remember I went had dinner Julie McCoy, Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Did it was an eight? No? No, I'm probably like

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<v Speaker 1>the daughter, the little one on.

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<v Speaker 2>The Amy Carter of the Pacific Prince. Yea the daughter

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't know, the daughter, the daughter that the closet

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<v Speaker 2>and Captain Stuming didn't know that he had as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I love the idea that at no point with.

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<v Speaker 2>Just so you know, I can't possibly have a daughter. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I can't say that, right because it's nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>seventy nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and ron bring her on and and and pay

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<v Speaker 1>no attention to the fact that she lives in a

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<v Speaker 1>cruise ship and is not being educated in any way

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<v Speaker 1>that she doesn't do anything but work.

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<v Speaker 2>She's learning the rules of rum sobbi and the last.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you because anybody, anybody who could teach that,

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<v Speaker 1>it's Captain Meryl stupid. She's going to the mit of

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<v Speaker 1>that anyway. So you have to sit down at eight o'clock.

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<v Speaker 1>Sit down at eight o'clock, because that's why they tell

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<v Speaker 1>you sit out. So he said, out for dinner eight o'clock,

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<v Speaker 1>if you order your thing. And I wore your wine,

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<v Speaker 1>and I were wine at the beginning of the week,

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<v Speaker 1>and they keep bringing to you and then it sounds eight,

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<v Speaker 1>and I say, bring me this, and bring me the

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<v Speaker 1>wine and the bottle wine. And that's eight forty five

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<v Speaker 1>and nine o'clock and they're basically clearing the table and

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't had a glass of wine yet. So I

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<v Speaker 1>called the guy, said, where the hell is my wine?

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<v Speaker 1>Really I wanted the wine here. I'm here at eight, like,

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<v Speaker 1>where's the wine? It's nine o'clock. I've had, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And he says this to me because he's the guy

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<v Speaker 1>running the plate as well, you know. So it's very

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<v Speaker 1>difficult for us because of course everybody comes at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time. And I just shouted at him, that's because

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<v Speaker 1>you made us. I would be happy to show up,

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<v Speaker 1>not at time. This is a schedule that you have created.

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<v Speaker 1>And he sort of looked at me. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>always it's always a Pacific islander or a Malay person

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<v Speaker 1>in those jobs for that reason, and he was struck

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<v Speaker 1>by my rudeness. But that so, I do have a

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<v Speaker 1>psychological problem about rules and order and calling a schedule

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<v Speaker 1>and then being corralled. And sometimes I feel like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>now we're gonna talk about a boring topic when we

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<v Speaker 1>could we're almost on the edge of an interesting riff

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<v Speaker 1>about something. Here's what here's what he's I'm going for

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<v Speaker 1>for true, for true, for true glop fans, they'll get this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going for some of that corn hole magic.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't happen on his own. By the way, so

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<v Speaker 2>Meryl Steuming was played by Gavin McLeod. Gavin McLeod in

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<v Speaker 2>the sixties weighed one hundred pounds more than Gavin McLeod

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<v Speaker 2>did in the seventies, and so he played literal heavies

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<v Speaker 2>on every show ever. Mannix the Fugitive whatever. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a big, hulking fat guy and then he lost all

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<v Speaker 2>his weight went on the Mary Tyler Moore Show, as

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<v Speaker 2>Murray did that and then was did the did the law.

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<v Speaker 2>And what was interesting was how the weight covered up

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that he was Faye. He didn't seem Faye

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<v Speaker 2>as a big, hulking heavy on every television show. When

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<v Speaker 2>he was liberated from his fleshly prison, he basically came

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<v Speaker 2>out of his shell, shall we say? And of course

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<v Speaker 2>we never met Murray's wife on the Mary Tyler Moore Show.

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<v Speaker 3>And yes we did, Murray, Yes we did, Yes we did,

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<v Speaker 3>we did, Yes we did.

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<v Speaker 1>She was played by Joyce Boulevart. I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>Joyce played Murray's wife.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe she did.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, then I stand corrected. I actually now psychotic

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<v Speaker 2>podcast after all, a psychotagram. I read Joyce's memoir, I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I read her memoir. It was called My Five Hollywood Husbands. Literally,

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<v Speaker 2>I can believe she was married to after she was

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<v Speaker 2>married to Murray on the show, she was married to

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<v Speaker 2>William Asher, who had been married to Elizabeth Montgomery and

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<v Speaker 2>when they did Bewitched, and then she married William Asher.

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<v Speaker 2>How's that for a thrilling piece of trivia about Joyce.

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<v Speaker 2>Joyce ballafant?

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<v Speaker 3>But are we actually saying, are we suggesting that Gavin

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<v Speaker 3>McLeod in real life was gay or just the Meryl

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<v Speaker 3>Steubing character presented as gay.

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<v Speaker 2>No. I think Gavin McLeod presented as as as a

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<v Speaker 2>classic Hollywood character actor of the Faye dis position he

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<v Speaker 2>presented because I think he was married, you had kids.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you ever remember tattle Tales that show tattle

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<v Speaker 1>Tales and they would they would have like real couples, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and then suddenly they would have like, like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Deacon and Dody Goodman who were kind of not

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<v Speaker 1>who were not a couple in the sense that Dody

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<v Speaker 1>Goodman was not a man, but also just they were

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<v Speaker 1>just it was, oh, no, you're gonna get And nobody

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<v Speaker 1>ever said, oh, you guys are going out or anything.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just we'll have Richard Deacon Doty Goodman. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember that, and of course it didn't make an difference

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<v Speaker 1>to me because I was a kid.

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<v Speaker 2>What did I know?

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<v Speaker 1>But he already this seems more interesting to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Gavin McLeod, Well, now it's not became an evangelical Christian

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<v Speaker 2>that I do know, but that was after that was

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<v Speaker 2>like in the after the the eighties and the nineties anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just thought it was an interesting detail that

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<v Speaker 2>he was once a fat guy and had a completely

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<v Speaker 2>different affect from when he was a thin guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that now? If you do, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to reboot The Love Boat.

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<v Speaker 2>They have rebooted The love Boat and it features and

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<v Speaker 2>it features a throttle. It's called Doctor Odyssey. It's on ABC.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 3>See this gets us back to the problem that you're

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<v Speaker 3>not paying attention to pop culture anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>I really am not.

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<v Speaker 2>Literally. So this show, which is produced by Ryan Murphy,

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<v Speaker 2>is about a cruise ship. Don Johnson is the Meryl

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<v Speaker 2>Stooping of the show. Jeremy Jackson, Joshua Jackson, who was

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<v Speaker 2>on Dawson's Creek, is doctor. And then there are two nurses,

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<v Speaker 2>one played by Philip as Sue is a nurse. Two nurses.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like a partly a medical drama, the medical drama

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<v Speaker 2>set on a cruise ship.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Every episode. Well, so here's the thing. It isn't a

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<v Speaker 2>preposterous but there's a love triangle. And the love triangle

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<v Speaker 2>is that Philip is Sue, the beautiful nurse who was

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<v Speaker 2>who was Eliza, and Hamilton Uh is torn between the

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<v Speaker 2>other nurse who is I think a Hispanic guy, and

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<v Speaker 2>Joshua Jackson, who is the doctor. Doctor No, then they

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<v Speaker 2>have a throuple. Then they literally she sleeps with Joshua Jackson.

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<v Speaker 2>On the next episode she sleeps with the other guy,

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<v Speaker 2>and then on the third episode they actually end the

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<v Speaker 2>episode having a throupple. On network tep, I believe perhaps

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<v Speaker 2>last on network television, because give Bryan Murphy, you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to give Ryan Murphy a show broadcast television. He is

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<v Speaker 2>going to try to introduce we used.

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<v Speaker 1>To like we used to. We would get calls this

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<v Speaker 1>is the nineties where they'd say, you know, listen, you

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<v Speaker 1>know you said ass, like last week and the week before,

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00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>and this week you're saying, you know, bastard, can it's

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<v Speaker 1>your fault?

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<v Speaker 2>Can you not? You know? Can you? Can you not?

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<v Speaker 1>Next week? No ass? Can you just know? No ass?

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<v Speaker 1>For the rest of the season.

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<v Speaker 2>You've hit your ass quota and.

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<v Speaker 1>You hit your quote. And and then when I was

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<v Speaker 1>doing another show on the ad supporting case.

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<v Speaker 2>Phrase Captain Steubing never heard because he had a different port.

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<v Speaker 1>To another show. Later on, Uh, you could say ship,

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<v Speaker 1>but not if it referred to feces. Huh. You you

358
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<v Speaker 1>can say, I look at all that shit, Oh that

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00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.839
<v Speaker 1>was bullshit. You know, everything you're saying is shit.

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<v Speaker 2>This is all shit.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you said, oh that that dog took a

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<v Speaker 1>ship over there, they would say, oh, you can't do that.

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<v Speaker 2>You do that.

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<v Speaker 1>And so now on broadcast TV, Little Dawson's Creek can

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<v Speaker 1>have a threatle have a three way.

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<v Speaker 2>Now. So Eli Lake has a fantastic podcast out just

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<v Speaker 2>now about Lenny Bruce, and he actually says, look, here's

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<v Speaker 2>the story of Lenny Bruce. Lenny Bruce, the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the sick comic who literally was thrown in jail for

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<v Speaker 2>making a joke about Jackie Kennedy like he was. He

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<v Speaker 2>went to jail for making a joke about Jackie Kennedy

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<v Speaker 2>running away from the bullet when when Jay.

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<v Speaker 1>Was shot, she kind of did.

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<v Speaker 2>That was his point. That was offensive, trying to buy

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<v Speaker 2>out the year was this? This was nineteen sixty four,

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<v Speaker 2>So there's anyway, right, No, but nobody here the too

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<v Speaker 2>soon factor here, right. But the reason that I'm bringing

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<v Speaker 2>this up is that Eli, it's a brilliant podcast talking

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<v Speaker 2>about how all of this ruined Lenny Bruce and like

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<v Speaker 2>nine years late. You know, five years later, Midnight Cowboy

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<v Speaker 2>wins the Oscar Like that that the the moment at

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<v Speaker 2>which obscenity disappeared from our entire understanding of the of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, what was right and wrong and how things

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<v Speaker 2>went was so fast and so quick that not only

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<v Speaker 2>Lady Bruce died overdosed and died in nineteen sixty five,

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<v Speaker 2>had he just lived a couple more years, he would

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<v Speaker 2>have been just fine, like nobody would have left him alone. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>but this rate, And then Eli says, well, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>does Lenny Bruce deserve some censure or the world in

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<v Speaker 2>which there was there were people who wanted to throw

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<v Speaker 2>Lenny Bruce and Jail's also world that did not have

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<v Speaker 2>pornography on an iPhone. And we live in this world

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00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.559
<v Speaker 2>you in which a five year old can find porn

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<v Speaker 2>on an iPhone. What are the two connected? Can you?

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00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.279
<v Speaker 2>Can you prevent pornography from being on an iPhone without

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<v Speaker 2>having the standards that would lead you to throw Lenny

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<v Speaker 2>Bruce in jail? And that's an unanswerable question, but it

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00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.880
<v Speaker 2>is sort of suggested by this Ryan Murphy story. Right,

399
00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.160
<v Speaker 2>you were very eager to say ass in nineteen ninety three,

400
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>and then in twenty twenty five, Ryan Murphy has Thrupples

401
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:40.279
<v Speaker 2>on ABC in prime time that there that the slippery

402
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.640
<v Speaker 2>slope was real, and it wasn't just slippery, it was

403
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.640
<v Speaker 2>like retigenous. It was like falling off a cliff, you know.

404
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean the neighborhood that Joan and I lived in

405
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.799
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen sixty three, there was a movie theater called

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00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:56.759
<v Speaker 2>the Midtown, which was a third rate theater, and by

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00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.119
<v Speaker 2>the time I was seven years old at ninety ninth

408
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.799
<v Speaker 2>and Broadway, it was a hardcore porn theater that I

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<v Speaker 2>walked by every day on my way to school, with

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<v Speaker 2>hardcore porn pictures, you know, with posters and everything right there.

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<v Speaker 2>That was again, five years after Lenny Bruce went to

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<v Speaker 2>jail for obscenity and you know, essentially seditious libel or

413
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:25.000
<v Speaker 2>something like that. It's just sort of an interesting phenomenon

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<v Speaker 2>that it is okay for Ye Murphy to do a

415
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:30.640
<v Speaker 2>thrupple on sure sure.

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<v Speaker 3>So I mean, look, I so I have a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of different views on this.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, you see this in a lot of

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00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:36.640
<v Speaker 2>different ways.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Poor Judge Ginsburg, who turned out he smoked pot,

421
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.920
<v Speaker 3>lost a shot at the Supreme Court, and then five

422
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.279
<v Speaker 3>years later it's like Ganjamin, who cares?

423
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:48.599
<v Speaker 2>Right?

424
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:54.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, these things happened really fast. Without getting too

425
00:24:54.079 --> 00:25:00.799
<v Speaker 3>philosophical about any of this, I I think you can

426
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:06.079
<v Speaker 3>have a society that says no porn on iPhones, but

427
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:11.279
<v Speaker 3>it requires the will power to do it, But I

428
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 3>think I think it's worth thinking about. I agree a

429
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:17.640
<v Speaker 3>lot of taboos have disappeared, but that doesn't mean we

430
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:18.599
<v Speaker 3>don't have taboos.

431
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.519
<v Speaker 1>They just yeah, what is taboo?

432
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Changes?

433
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 3>And it's sort of like my thing about censorship. I

434
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.000
<v Speaker 3>used to love getting into big arguments with libertarians who

435
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.799
<v Speaker 3>said they were against all forms of censorship. And I

436
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.200
<v Speaker 3>would be like, okay, so like hardcorese enough films on

437
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:34.160
<v Speaker 3>Saturday morning TV, You're fine with that, you know uh?

438
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:35.920
<v Speaker 3>And they're like, well, no, no, of course not, that's not

439
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.799
<v Speaker 3>that's that's not that's just community standards, you know, or whatever, right,

440
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:42.200
<v Speaker 3>And so there are all sorts of things we Irvan

441
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 3>Crystal used to make this point is that censorship is

442
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.759
<v Speaker 3>one of these words that we only use for the censorship.

443
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.440
<v Speaker 3>We don't like everything else. We just don't call it

444
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:51.920
<v Speaker 3>censorship community standards.

445
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like.

446
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Eli points out Eli points out that that in comedy, right,

447
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.480
<v Speaker 2>bocuness has now been seems to have been overturned. Right

448
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>that guy Tony Hinchcliff made the joke about Puerto Rican's

449
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.319
<v Speaker 2>at the Trump rally. He's doing fine. Now you can

450
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:10.720
<v Speaker 2>use party again all of this. The one word that

451
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.359
<v Speaker 2>you cannot say, right George Carlin said there were seven

452
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.319
<v Speaker 2>words you couldn't say on television. There is one word

453
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Speaker 2>you cannot say period anywhere ever, and that's the end word. Right.

454
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:22.440
<v Speaker 2>That is a thing where.

455
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:24.079
<v Speaker 1>That that's still a thing, that's still a thing.

456
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.319
<v Speaker 2>Unless you're black, or you're in you're a rapper.

457
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Or unless you're unless you were you know, a middle

458
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.759
<v Speaker 1>aged Jewish comedy writer in the nineteen seventies writing for

459
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.079
<v Speaker 1>Sanford and Son. Right, right, then you could then you

460
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.920
<v Speaker 1>could use but let me let me just your two

461
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:47.759
<v Speaker 1>end points here. From my own career, I used to

462
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.160
<v Speaker 1>do my Martini shot, my famous Martini shot, which of

463
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.920
<v Speaker 1>course everybody loves. I used to do it for the

464
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Irish radio or it was on Irish radio, and I

465
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.880
<v Speaker 1>did one that was I thought was completely benign, in

466
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:05.359
<v Speaker 1>which I made a I told a story about James

467
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.079
<v Speaker 1>conn on a BBC documentary about Hollywood in the late eighties,

468
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>in which he said, you know, Hollywood location shootings terrible.

469
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.000
<v Speaker 1>People always think of it's so glamorous, location shootings, the

470
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.079
<v Speaker 1>words shooting a movie on location is really really awful.

471
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 1>It's like Auschwitz. And we thought that was hilarious, and

472
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 1>so from the from that day on in the office,

473
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:27.039
<v Speaker 1>we would say, yet, we're out of the little bottles

474
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.279
<v Speaker 1>of Evyon, what is this Auschwitz? I wanted to turn

475
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.839
<v Speaker 1>to smoke turkey wrap, not the regular roasted turkeys. This

476
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.279
<v Speaker 1>is Auschwitz, which we thought was very, very funny. Of

477
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.000
<v Speaker 1>course it's not, and uh and then some it's some.

478
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.720
<v Speaker 1>The point was, somebody takes that joke home from the

479
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.359
<v Speaker 1>writer's room, and that's a terrible idea. And somebody took

480
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:46.119
<v Speaker 1>that joke home to Thanksgiving when I think it was like,

481
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>there was only three kinds of pie, and he's only

482
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>three kinds of pie? What is this Auschwitz? And he

483
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:55.400
<v Speaker 1>forgot that his wife's grandfather who was there was the survivor.

484
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Ha ha ha.

485
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.519
<v Speaker 1>Did I get an email saying Hi, we had some

486
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:04.319
<v Speaker 1>we had a complaint about your martini shots. Are really

487
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:06.000
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to take a pause on it for now

488
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:09.319
<v Speaker 1>because and I said, well, but but I was making

489
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:11.319
<v Speaker 1>I was joking. It was a joke. It was I

490
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.480
<v Speaker 1>was talking about how this is outrageous, but it didn't work.

491
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.519
<v Speaker 1>So then yesterday or two days ago, whatever whenever, it dropped,

492
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:20.960
<v Speaker 1>because that's what happens when podcasts they drop, this one

493
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:26.440
<v Speaker 1>will drop. I was talking about when I was in

494
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.960
<v Speaker 1>the hospital a few years ago for uh for vertigo.

495
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.920
<v Speaker 1>But I was being we didn't know it was ver

496
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to go until we thought it was a stroke. And

497
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 1>I woke up one kind of terrified in my hotel,

498
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean my hotel, my in my hospital bed and

499
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:44.200
<v Speaker 1>looked up and saw my neurology consult pet a staff

500
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:48.160
<v Speaker 1>there from Letex Hill Neurology neurological department, and every single

501
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.400
<v Speaker 1>one of the doctors, and he was about a dozen

502
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:53.279
<v Speaker 1>in a semi circle around my hospital a bit. We're

503
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.680
<v Speaker 1>either Asian or South Asian. And I thought to myself,

504
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:03.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be okay. And I said this on NATIVZ

505
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:05.960
<v Speaker 1>shat yes two days ago, and I'm still waiting to

506
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.000
<v Speaker 1>see if it doesn't be any push back at all.

507
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:12.599
<v Speaker 1>So I think I can say evidence example, a h

508
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:19.240
<v Speaker 1>E A wokenus is near dead. Look, we all want

509
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:21.839
<v Speaker 1>Wocus to be dead. We all want it to be dead.

510
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:24.119
<v Speaker 1>I didn't really want it to be dead so that

511
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Martyr Made could talk about how Winston Churchill was the

512
00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>great villain of the Second World War, and so that

513
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:34.559
<v Speaker 1>Kanye West could release a song called Hyley Hitler.

514
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.720
<v Speaker 2>That wasn't why I thought Vocus should die. Was too

515
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.880
<v Speaker 2>free up. You can't tatzism. I mean, okay, but that's

516
00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:46.839
<v Speaker 2>the point, which is when you also when you suppress,

517
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.720
<v Speaker 2>and then the suppression is ended violently right by like

518
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the result of this twenty twenty four election. You have

519
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.000
<v Speaker 2>no idea how it's going to how the how the

520
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:01.880
<v Speaker 2>expression that has been sp is going to explode.

521
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:02.920
<v Speaker 5>Out, But you know it's going to be horrible, right,

522
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 5>It's not going to be someone's.

523
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Not going to write Ulysses, right, you know that's not right.

524
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.319
<v Speaker 2>So the censorship battles of the early twentieth century were

525
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:17.240
<v Speaker 2>making sure that great novels with erotic themes like Ulysses

526
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:19.920
<v Speaker 2>or Lady Child's Lover or something like that, we're not

527
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:24.559
<v Speaker 2>we're not kept out of the public view by censors

528
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:28.279
<v Speaker 2>who were unable to grasp that they were works of value.

529
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>And but that's not what you're going to get.

530
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Now, well, that's not usually what you get. We get

531
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.079
<v Speaker 1>more of culture and more of pop culture. You're gonna

532
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.559
<v Speaker 1>get more crap. That's just the way it is. More

533
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.640
<v Speaker 1>or more ship. You could say that now what we're

534
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:44.039
<v Speaker 1>saying it right here right now.

535
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.119
<v Speaker 2>So I think the last book banned in Boston was

536
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:49.960
<v Speaker 2>like not it was well into the sixties.

537
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:52.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh you know what book was it?

538
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.000
<v Speaker 2>You know? I don't, I don't.

539
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a great some crap, prob great Dick Cavit joke,

540
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:06.359
<v Speaker 1>he said once about the Now, this is completely not this,

541
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:09.279
<v Speaker 1>this idea does not connected to what you just said.

542
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:11.160
<v Speaker 1>But he just said that. It was like you know

543
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:12.880
<v Speaker 1>that old story about it. You know, a thousand monkeys

544
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and a thousand typewriters will eventually produce works of Shakespeare.

545
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:19.799
<v Speaker 1>And they actually did an experiment with a thousand monkeys

546
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.279
<v Speaker 1>and a thousand typewriters in a room, and they didn't

547
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:26.720
<v Speaker 1>write any work of Shakespeare. But four of them wrote

548
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Bally of the Dolls. Okay, first great joke, by the way.

549
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:35.039
<v Speaker 2>I looked it up, and it's a great joke. I

550
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 2>looked it up. Naked Lunch was the last okay, last

551
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.160
<v Speaker 2>book band in Boston in nineteen sixty five. But of

552
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.799
<v Speaker 2>course there are plenty of book bands that aren't the

553
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:50.720
<v Speaker 2>that aren't the sexually restrictive censorship. Right. There are book

554
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:53.839
<v Speaker 2>bands all over the place. There there are kind of

555
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.960
<v Speaker 2>do you remember the kind of weird moral panic over

556
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:03.799
<v Speaker 2>American Psycho? Ellis's American Psycho, which is a satire, which

557
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 2>is a book about uh yuppies being materialist ciphers who

558
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.119
<v Speaker 2>do everything that everybody else does and have no souls

559
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>and therefore, you know, are all It takes it to

560
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:21.880
<v Speaker 2>the point where they not only dressed like this and

561
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:23.720
<v Speaker 2>listen to Phil Collins and do this and do that,

562
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.119
<v Speaker 2>but like are willing to kill people and eat them

563
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and get away with it.

564
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Phil Collins was the gateway drug.

565
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>But that's in the book. Patrick Bateman is obsessed with

566
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:37.359
<v Speaker 2>is obsessed with Phil Collins.

567
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 5>Another movie, by the way, American Psycho is a It

568
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:46.079
<v Speaker 5>was a hard satire and people like Kurt Anderson of

569
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:53.160
<v Speaker 5>Spy supported its suppression, but people wanted Random House to

570
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.279
<v Speaker 5>pulp the book because they found it so disgusting.

571
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:02.079
<v Speaker 2>I actually think it's kind of brilliant, uh As Ellis

572
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:03.799
<v Speaker 2>can be and and.

573
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:07.519
<v Speaker 1>You know it's he's super right wing right now, or

574
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:08.680
<v Speaker 1>it's just not.

575
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I get you something. But that that book, by the way,

576
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.880
<v Speaker 2>all of his work is like his Lesson zero is

577
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.599
<v Speaker 2>a book about soulless material. You know, it's he's almost

578
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:23.200
<v Speaker 2>well a back or somebody like that.

579
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.519
<v Speaker 1>He's like but like, it's like, is there that is

580
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.680
<v Speaker 1>a weird social movement that I don't I'm gonna refer.

581
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to defer to Joanah on this.

582
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:33.519
<v Speaker 2>Has it ever?

583
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:36.079
<v Speaker 1>Has this actually happened before? Where you have a bunch

584
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:40.200
<v Speaker 1>of people who in this weird to punch drunk kind

585
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:47.000
<v Speaker 1>of reaction to wokeism and censorship. And also now uh

586
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Hamas and Gaza have found themselves. You know, if you

587
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.880
<v Speaker 1>were a liberal and you were like, well, I'm you know,

588
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:58.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm a liberal, so I'm a free hentoff liberal and

589
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.079
<v Speaker 1>free speech liberal, and I also think that Israel's are

590
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:03.799
<v Speaker 1>right to exist and to defend itself. And suddenly you

591
00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:06.920
<v Speaker 1>find yourself kind of marching in a parade with a

592
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:11.079
<v Speaker 1>bunch of right wing kooks. Right, you know what I mean,

593
00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:11.800
<v Speaker 1>just bad.

594
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:15.239
<v Speaker 4>But let's do it reverse. So the age you don't

595
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:16.639
<v Speaker 4>do it my way. I don't do it verse yet.

596
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Now I want to do it reverse because I thought

597
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.440
<v Speaker 2>of an interesting verse example. So the ACLU existed as

598
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:25.559
<v Speaker 2>the absolutist free speech organization, right, That's what it was

599
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:27.960
<v Speaker 2>there for, to say the First Amendment gives you the

600
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:32.320
<v Speaker 2>right to pretty much do anything. And that was season Skokie, right, Na,

601
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Season Skokie. And then in the twenty seventeen or twenty

602
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:40.559
<v Speaker 2>eighteen the head lawyer of the New York Civil Liberties

603
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Union was a guy named Chase Strange EO. And Chase

604
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:46.119
<v Speaker 2>Strange GEO decided he.

605
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Was not that was that was not his name.

606
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:53.800
<v Speaker 2>That is Strangeo. That is actually his name. That's like

607
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:56.800
<v Speaker 2>the Beavis and butt Head cornfolio. Yeah. To bring it

608
00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:59.159
<v Speaker 2>back to yes, yes.

609
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.199
<v Speaker 1>A Strange Geo, Nazis and Skokie.

610
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:06.079
<v Speaker 2>That Chase Stranger would enjoy TP for his bunkhole as

611
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:10.800
<v Speaker 2>as I will explain, because he became. His idea was

612
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>that the the the ACLU and the NYL you should

613
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:20.639
<v Speaker 2>become advocates for the suppression of books about and articles

614
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:23.360
<v Speaker 2>and things like that about trans that he didn't like.

615
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.679
<v Speaker 1>I see, so he literally hants to change you O.

616
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.039
<v Speaker 1>So he probably his name probably isn't change.

617
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:29.760
<v Speaker 2>He just.

618
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:36.719
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So he was Phil status quoio, and then he

619
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:40.800
<v Speaker 3>was Phil Danglio.

620
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:47.239
<v Speaker 2>Demanded that that Amazon suppress Abbiel Schreyer's book Irreversible Damage

621
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:53.079
<v Speaker 2>out of his post at the American Civil Liberties Union

622
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:56.239
<v Speaker 2>or the New York branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.

623
00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:59.440
<v Speaker 2>So you had this weird thing that happened, okay, and

624
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.880
<v Speaker 2>that's the River twenty tens. Right. So now, if you're

625
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:06.800
<v Speaker 2>a free speech advocate, right, the question now is.

626
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:09.199
<v Speaker 1>That's what I guess what I went from Joan is

627
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:14.599
<v Speaker 1>like that has that ever happened before? As the cultural

628
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:16.719
<v Speaker 1>movement historian.

629
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm hard pressed to think of a cultural analog. But like,

630
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, like the I mean, the way you

631
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:34.280
<v Speaker 3>were describing it originally about you find yourself marching in

632
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:36.440
<v Speaker 3>lockstep with right wing, which.

633
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Is marching in the same parade, I mean maybe not,

634
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:38.280
<v Speaker 1>you know.

635
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, like so the popular front stuff of

636
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:47.280
<v Speaker 3>the nineteen nineteen thirties, right was I was recently rereading

637
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 3>chunks of Witness for this piece I wrote for Dispatcher

638
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:54.280
<v Speaker 3>about some of this stuff. Like part of what he

639
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 3>talks about confronting was what he called the popular Front

640
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:01.039
<v Speaker 3>mind and which is this this idea that you have

641
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:06.599
<v Speaker 3>to have complete solidarity with your side, And of course

642
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:08.639
<v Speaker 3>it never actually works that way because the people who

643
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:11.280
<v Speaker 3>are really enforcing the popular Front crap the communists.

644
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.599
<v Speaker 2>In this case, the stalin is the second they could

645
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:16.039
<v Speaker 2>throw other members of the faction under.

646
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.559
<v Speaker 1>The blast, they would.

647
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they have no solidarity for anybody. They want everything.

648
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:21.840
<v Speaker 2>It's a one way or it's one way thing.

649
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.800
<v Speaker 3>And it's very similar to the MAGA stuff these days,

650
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:29.280
<v Speaker 3>where you criticize Trump or anything in MAGA and you

651
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:31.840
<v Speaker 3>get this, I guess you don't believe in Reagan's eleventh

652
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.239
<v Speaker 3>commandment and they're like, why are you, like, you know,

653
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.039
<v Speaker 3>get on the get on board. And then the second

654
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:41.360
<v Speaker 3>you know you're problematic for anything, you cuck rhino squish.

655
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:45.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, they have no problem throwing anybody else under

656
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.559
<v Speaker 3>the bus. And I think there's a lot of popular frontism,

657
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:49.360
<v Speaker 3>and I think the ACOU stuff is sort of an

658
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.360
<v Speaker 3>example of that, where no one wants to stay in

659
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 3>their lane and actually do the job of their institution.

660
00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:59.440
<v Speaker 3>You know, remember the Poetry Foundation during the Black Lives

661
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Matter thing were basically they were ordered to demonstrate their

662
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:11.199
<v Speaker 3>racial enlightenment by essentially like dismantling their own organization, quitting

663
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:12.079
<v Speaker 3>all their jobs.

664
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, so I think there is there are some

665
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:22.440
<v Speaker 2>versions of this, but they're I mean, what happens is

666
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:29.000
<v Speaker 2>that people have their eyes opened to the intolerances and

667
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:34.519
<v Speaker 2>smallnesses and totalitarian tendencies of their own side. That happens

668
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:37.440
<v Speaker 2>on both sides of the aisle, and then the question

669
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.039
<v Speaker 2>is what is it that they can tolerate, What is

670
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:43.559
<v Speaker 2>it about the other side that they can't stand, and

671
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:46.800
<v Speaker 2>can they can they make their peace with the things

672
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.719
<v Speaker 2>they can't stand on the other side, because the other

673
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:52.440
<v Speaker 2>side at least isn't trying to make sure that they

674
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.280
<v Speaker 2>end up in jail for having the views that they

675
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 2>might have. Right, That's the sort of the neo The

676
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:02.159
<v Speaker 2>story of the neo Conservatives is they could no longer

677
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.840
<v Speaker 2>affiliate themselves with a Democratic Party controlled by the mcgovernites,

678
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.119
<v Speaker 2>which was that we're actively rooting for an American loss

679
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:14.400
<v Speaker 2>in Vietnam. That was not you know, as Prooffrock would say,

680
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:18.719
<v Speaker 2>that was not it at all. That's not what that

681
00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>they could stand for. And so they sort of tried

682
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.400
<v Speaker 2>to save the Democratic Party and that didn't go anywhere,

683
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and then they sort of had a choice, which is

684
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:32.559
<v Speaker 2>could they make their peace on the right, and then

685
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 2>could they make their peace with Republicans. And that was

686
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:38.199
<v Speaker 2>a ten or fifteen year journey for a lot of

687
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:42.679
<v Speaker 2>people who couldn't imagine, particularly Jews, couldn't imagine being that

688
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>way with Republican Party because the old Republican Party was

689
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:52.519
<v Speaker 2>kind of genteel, anti Semitic country Republicanism. But it's a journey,

690
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.000
<v Speaker 2>and there are people who are on that journey from

691
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:58.119
<v Speaker 2>left to right now. It's just that people do seem

692
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.639
<v Speaker 2>to shift a lot faster, just like everything is fast.

693
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.920
<v Speaker 3>But I'm you know, I'm fascinated by all that stuff,

694
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.440
<v Speaker 3>and it is worth pointing out. I agree that the

695
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:10.440
<v Speaker 3>shifts are faster, but if you go back and you

696
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:15.119
<v Speaker 3>look at you know, I don't want to get too

697
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.280
<v Speaker 3>close to home. But basically, everybody, every one of the neocons,

698
00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:23.440
<v Speaker 3>with very few exceptions, some exceptions. The gateway drug was

699
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.039
<v Speaker 3>foreign policy for the nineteen seventies ones right right. For

700
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:31.000
<v Speaker 3>the nineteen sixties ones, it's great society stuff. And for

701
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:34.480
<v Speaker 3>the nineteen fifty ones, I would argue, you know, like

702
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:37.280
<v Speaker 3>half of the founders of National Review were all ex communists,

703
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.880
<v Speaker 3>and I still think that they followed the Neocon playbook.

704
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:42.440
<v Speaker 3>It was communism, right, So like it's these different domestic

705
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:46.519
<v Speaker 3>communisms as much as anything. But what is remarkable is

706
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:50.480
<v Speaker 3>you have a gateway drug of a single issue, and

707
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:55.119
<v Speaker 3>it's not very long until you know, Charles Crowdhammer is

708
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:59.440
<v Speaker 3>just a full fledged conservative on almost every issue. It's

709
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.639
<v Speaker 3>not very long. Your dad, you know, came over for

710
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:06.440
<v Speaker 3>a specific reason. It became basically a full fledged conservative.

711
00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:08.880
<v Speaker 3>Bill Bennett, you go down a very long list, and

712
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:12.239
<v Speaker 3>I think there's something about the cognitive dissonance of being

713
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.280
<v Speaker 3>of switching aside, where you try to hold on tight

714
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.679
<v Speaker 3>to all your old positions. It's catch one and it

715
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.079
<v Speaker 3>gets really hard, and you start listening to your friends

716
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:24.719
<v Speaker 3>and they get more persuasive, and I'm I'm not saying

717
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:27.320
<v Speaker 3>it's an intellectually dishonest thing or anything like that, but

718
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.400
<v Speaker 3>it is a fascinating sort of thing to see. Nat

719
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 3>Glazer basically had to like get and and and what's

720
00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:38.800
<v Speaker 3>his name, the first founder of the Public Interest. They, yeah, Bell,

721
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:41.519
<v Speaker 3>some of those guys who were part of all that stuff,

722
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:43.760
<v Speaker 3>they had to kind of pull back and hide a

723
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:47.960
<v Speaker 3>bit because the poll of just having to join check

724
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.159
<v Speaker 3>all the boxes seemed to be pretty strong.

725
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.199
<v Speaker 2>And they and they didn't want to and they in

726
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:56.239
<v Speaker 2>the end Nat and Daniel bellnck Glazer and did not

727
00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:00.599
<v Speaker 2>so they were founding the Conserve. They did not end

728
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:04.639
<v Speaker 2>up there. They ended up as kind of as kind

729
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:07.519
<v Speaker 2>of moynihan liberal I don't know even know there was

730
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:11.880
<v Speaker 2>no place for them, but they they were. They remained

731
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 2>discomfited mostly by the by the by the Christian right,

732
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.519
<v Speaker 2>and they they could not make their peace with any

733
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:23.760
<v Speaker 2>of that or or with really serious like with untrammeled

734
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:24.360
<v Speaker 2>free market.

735
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 3>Sure, but the exceptions are more are few and far between,

736
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:31.840
<v Speaker 3>but they do exist. And meanwhile, I think it's it's

737
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:35.719
<v Speaker 3>kind of amazing how and we don't because some of

738
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 3>these people are our friends. We don't need to get

739
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.800
<v Speaker 3>into all that. But like, there are a bunch of

740
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:44.280
<v Speaker 3>people on the anti Trump side who have just basically

741
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:49.159
<v Speaker 3>become liberal Democrats now. And I think it's for the

742
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:53.719
<v Speaker 3>same reasons. It's wanting to have a team and and

743
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:54.800
<v Speaker 3>beyond the team.

744
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:57.719
<v Speaker 2>And I will say this, I will say.

745
00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:59.519
<v Speaker 1>This, by the way, so is Trump a little bit

746
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.039
<v Speaker 1>That's like pretty soon those are friends who are now

747
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:05.079
<v Speaker 1>liberal Democrats will notice that he's also in the room.

748
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:06.159
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, i'll give it.

749
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.719
<v Speaker 1>I'll give you following you along whatever you join he joins.

750
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:13.280
<v Speaker 2>So I'll give you an example. Two issues that that

751
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Speaker 2>were not neocon issues, uh, that were enormously important to

752
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:24.519
<v Speaker 2>the right, but we're not neocon issues guns and abortion.

753
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:29.639
<v Speaker 2>Guns and abortion not important in neocons who were foreign

754
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:35.000
<v Speaker 2>policy or when they were domestic policy. The central concepsia

755
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:39.159
<v Speaker 2>of the of of neo conservatism was they're trying, they're

756
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:41.760
<v Speaker 2>trying to do all this stuff and it's not going

757
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:45.280
<v Speaker 2>to work right, It's not going to work, and it's

758
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:48.519
<v Speaker 2>going to make everything the The intentions may be good,

759
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:50.480
<v Speaker 2>but they're going to make everything worse, and it's going

760
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.400
<v Speaker 2>to be a huge mess. And the great Society is

761
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.599
<v Speaker 2>going to be a huge mess. It has bad incentives

762
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:59.159
<v Speaker 2>and perverse incentives, and and better not to do it

763
00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:02.000
<v Speaker 2>and mess much everything up. But that wasn't more. The

764
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.559
<v Speaker 2>moral frame was your goals are admirable, Your your your

765
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:08.880
<v Speaker 2>stratagems are not right.

766
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I just want to know. I'm not trying to interrupt,

767
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:17.199
<v Speaker 1>but I just want to note we started talking about

768
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Joyce Boulevont now and this.

769
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Is what we getting you right now. Joyce balf voted

770
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.760
<v Speaker 2>for voting for Trump.

771
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:27.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure this is what we do.

772
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.599
<v Speaker 3>And this is the only podcast where you can get yes,

773
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.519
<v Speaker 3>you get that, you get the high and the low,

774
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:37.960
<v Speaker 3>and then and where a person uses the word conceptsia, yeah, concept.

775
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but here's what I here's what just so, I

776
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:44.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't care about guns, I don't care about a boy.

777
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:46.000
<v Speaker 2>I really don't care about guns and an abortion, but

778
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:51.400
<v Speaker 2>so I am. I find myself in close proximity to

779
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.559
<v Speaker 2>people who care about these issues more than they care

780
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:58.679
<v Speaker 2>about anything else. And when you don't really care about things,

781
00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:01.400
<v Speaker 2>you don't read about them all. You know, you don't

782
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.480
<v Speaker 2>pay much attention to them. They bore you or they're

783
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:07.599
<v Speaker 2>not that interesting. And then you start having conversations with

784
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:10.800
<v Speaker 2>people about this because they're interesting and they interest you,

785
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.440
<v Speaker 2>and they start telling you things and you start reading

786
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.079
<v Speaker 2>up on it, and you're like, you know what, these

787
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:23.960
<v Speaker 2>are really interesting, complicated matters, and you know, don't be

788
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:28.760
<v Speaker 2>so quick to say I'm pro choice. You know, I

789
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:32.079
<v Speaker 2>was there myself with my wife and you know, in

790
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:35.360
<v Speaker 2>the in the doctor's office looking at the fetal heartbeat

791
00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:39.719
<v Speaker 2>and saying that's a living creature in there, right, you know,

792
00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean stuff like that, Like there's also I mean,

793
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>you're open to things that you they really ever think

794
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:49.480
<v Speaker 2>you needed to be open to, although.

795
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:52.719
<v Speaker 3>I would argue that the catalyst is often different. It's

796
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:55.559
<v Speaker 3>less that it makes you open to the new things.

797
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.480
<v Speaker 3>It's that you start talking to your old friends from

798
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.400
<v Speaker 3>your old position and they're like, how can you be

799
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.519
<v Speaker 3>part of the party that supports guns or the supports

800
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:04.840
<v Speaker 3>pro life or whatever? And you get defensive, and so

801
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.000
<v Speaker 3>you start trying to come up with arguments right to

802
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:11.039
<v Speaker 3>defend your associations, and it turns out the arguments aren't

803
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:12.880
<v Speaker 3>as stupid as the people on the other side always

804
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:15.280
<v Speaker 3>thought they were. And does I mean they're necessarily right

805
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.719
<v Speaker 3>or wrong, But my point is that they're more complicated.

806
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Than people think.

807
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.679
<v Speaker 1>There's a theologian named Richard Rohorr who's written a little

808
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.280
<v Speaker 1>bit about this, not quite the idea of like ideas shifting,

809
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.840
<v Speaker 1>but the idea that you as long as you maintain

810
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:43.920
<v Speaker 1>this sort of studious ignorance of the value of the

811
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.280
<v Speaker 1>person that you're against right or the person that you

812
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:50.760
<v Speaker 1>disagree with, you feel safe and so that's why you

813
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.280
<v Speaker 1>want to do it. But the minute, for whatever reason,

814
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:56.119
<v Speaker 1>that wall is broken. Sometimes broken because you're just you're

815
00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:58.360
<v Speaker 1>reaching out to somebody that you love, who you disagree with,

816
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:00.960
<v Speaker 1>or because there's a bigger issue that draws you there.

817
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:05.360
<v Speaker 1>That's when things start to get really really uncomfortable for people,

818
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:08.039
<v Speaker 1>which is I think, what what? I don't know? He

819
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:10.480
<v Speaker 1>would say, that's the goal is to be uncomfortable. I

820
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:12.599
<v Speaker 1>will say just as a as a as a show

821
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.480
<v Speaker 1>business anecdote, because that's my job. Here. I was walking

822
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:17.880
<v Speaker 1>it's a National View conference, isn't this is not maybe

823
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:24.400
<v Speaker 1>thirty years ago maybe walking down some walking down this

824
00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:29.679
<v Speaker 1>long path in the Centry Park Hotel in La with

825
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Tom Selleck and Tom was gonna post that was going

826
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.280
<v Speaker 1>to be see the dinner or something. We're walking down

827
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:40.119
<v Speaker 1>and uh uh. The first person we passed it was

828
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:44.119
<v Speaker 1>leaving another event in the hotel was Liza Minelli and

829
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:47.519
<v Speaker 1>who just ran after. You know, there are weird time.

830
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:51.679
<v Speaker 1>It's just some terrific it just terrific and she had

831
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.840
<v Speaker 1>just done something and uh and and he said, well

832
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:56.480
<v Speaker 1>great to see you, and she had such great to

833
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:58.559
<v Speaker 1>see you. It's look good to see you a big kiss,

834
00:47:58.559 --> 00:47:59.880
<v Speaker 1>we said, walking and said, I don't know you.

835
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:01.440
<v Speaker 2>I've never met her before.

836
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:05.280
<v Speaker 1>It we're walking around the outside, you know how the

837
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:07.519
<v Speaker 1>outside of these conferences always people with with tables and things.

838
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:09.280
<v Speaker 1>And some guy runs up. The little guy runs up

839
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:11.280
<v Speaker 1>to him and he's wearing this vest with all these

840
00:48:11.320 --> 00:48:13.639
<v Speaker 1>buttons on it, and he goes, I'm so glad to

841
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.920
<v Speaker 1>know that you're one of us, Tom, and Tom so

842
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:20.000
<v Speaker 1>I was like, well, I don't know who what you are?

843
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:22.239
<v Speaker 1>You got any points to all the buttons because you've

844
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:26.360
<v Speaker 1>got a lot going on there, just very much. And

845
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:28.159
<v Speaker 1>you look at the buttons, and buttons are all that crazy,

846
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:31.400
<v Speaker 1>like you know, the kinds of things that were alarming

847
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:35.440
<v Speaker 1>back then, but now would would be completely normal. Uh

848
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:37.960
<v Speaker 1>and would probably that guy could, as far as I know,

849
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:40.880
<v Speaker 1>could be actually in the Trump administration now. He seems

850
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:43.360
<v Speaker 1>to have the right views. But that is that is

851
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:45.440
<v Speaker 1>the case. You like, you see something, you're one of me?

852
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:46.639
<v Speaker 2>Now, I'm I'm with you.

853
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Now, who slow down?

854
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:53.599
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know a bit of a tangent, but I

855
00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:56.679
<v Speaker 3>don't want to lose the ability to get the story

856
00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:58.599
<v Speaker 3>I probably told last time on here nine years ago.

857
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:04.960
<v Speaker 3>But when you brought up Conceptsia the Housekeeper, which I

858
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:11.280
<v Speaker 3>take prilosect for the Back in my early days when

859
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.880
<v Speaker 3>I was a television producer working out of AI, me

860
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:19.239
<v Speaker 3>and my buddies, we had this parlor game where we

861
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:23.159
<v Speaker 3>would try to find examples of people using foreign words

862
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:28.480
<v Speaker 3>where English words would be just fine for the pretentiousness

863
00:49:28.519 --> 00:49:30.679
<v Speaker 3>of it, right, And we had contests and we would

864
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:32.079
<v Speaker 3>find you know, you'd be reading the New Criteria and

865
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 3>you find something commentary whatever, and you find.

866
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 1>Something and then a new criteria Scott Scott nickol.

867
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:41.639
<v Speaker 2>Wait, I got a good new Criteria, Scott Nick Lucas, John,

868
00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:43.599
<v Speaker 2>you've Matt. He was at my roast, right, you know,

869
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:47.679
<v Speaker 2>he comes running in like he won the lottery.

870
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:50.559
<v Speaker 3>And because he was reading a piece I believe by

871
00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:53.719
<v Speaker 3>Michael Jos Flajos, who's a smart guy. I'm not trying

872
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:55.320
<v Speaker 3>to denounce him or anything like that. But he had

873
00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:00.320
<v Speaker 3>written something for the American Spectator where he said, and

874
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:03.920
<v Speaker 3>I can't remember the exact context, but it was and

875
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:09.599
<v Speaker 3>so we have to dig deeper into this con zept.

876
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:13.119
<v Speaker 2>And he spelt concept in the German with the K.

877
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:18.000
<v Speaker 3>And like like sort of like rob with the what

878
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:21.920
<v Speaker 3>is this Auschwitz thing? But the next five years, anytime

879
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:23.599
<v Speaker 3>said hey you want to go at some wings?

880
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:25.400
<v Speaker 1>Interesting?

881
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:31.519
<v Speaker 2>My favorite, my favorite new criterionism It wasn't wasn't the

882
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:34.559
<v Speaker 2>use of a foreign word, but but but it is

883
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:41.599
<v Speaker 2>the adoption of britishisms that are that are bizarrely out

884
00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:44.679
<v Speaker 2>of place or inappropriate. And the best one was a

885
00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:48.480
<v Speaker 2>sentence in which somebody this was Todd Lindberg's favorite. He's

886
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:51.159
<v Speaker 2>the one who discovered this. That there was a passage

887
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.159
<v Speaker 2>and he said, aha, someone wrote, you know this is

888
00:50:54.199 --> 00:51:03.440
<v Speaker 2>it the smoking pistol as it were the smoking pistol

889
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.760
<v Speaker 2>as this you know anyway, So yes, so the so

890
00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:11.960
<v Speaker 2>if you're if you're blaming me for saying conceptci I know.

891
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:16.119
<v Speaker 3>So again, I just want to keep calling back to

892
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:20.360
<v Speaker 3>previous bits of the conversation speaking of the N word, Uh,

893
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:24.119
<v Speaker 3>my dad and britishisms. My dad had a business partner

894
00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:27.920
<v Speaker 3>in the UK who or a consultant that he worked with,

895
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:31.360
<v Speaker 3>very nice guy, Oxford Don Good, fifteen twenty years older

896
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:35.360
<v Speaker 3>than my dad, and they were talking about some sales

897
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:38.960
<v Speaker 3>rights thing in the UK media market and there are

898
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:42.239
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of people on the call and this guy,

899
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:48.119
<v Speaker 3>very enlightened, sweet British guy, Oxford guy, he says, and

900
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:50.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to boulderize it for our purposes because he

901
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:51.679
<v Speaker 3>can't say it.

902
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:52.679
<v Speaker 2>He says, hm on.

903
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:54.480
<v Speaker 3>The question of rights on that, I think we have

904
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:59.199
<v Speaker 3>a bit of an N word in the woodpile. Yeah,

905
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:04.559
<v Speaker 3>and his total deafening silence. Oh god, Yeah, my dad

906
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.960
<v Speaker 3>was like, Peter, we don't. We don't really use that

907
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:09.559
<v Speaker 3>phrase anymore.

908
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:13.400
<v Speaker 1>But like, on another note, my favorite Agatha Christie novel

909
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:15.920
<v Speaker 1>is Let's go Smoke some faggots.

910
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:23.760
<v Speaker 2>But that's the story. Agatha Christie's most famous novel until.

911
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.599
<v Speaker 1>A play, right was it a play too? But I

912
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:27.039
<v Speaker 1>think Indians.

913
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was to be called ten Little Indians. Oh,

914
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:33.880
<v Speaker 2>in America was called ten Little Indians. It was called

915
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:36.480
<v Speaker 2>ten little n words. And when they when they made

916
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.599
<v Speaker 2>the movie, there's actually a great movie made out of

917
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:45.119
<v Speaker 2>it because it's basically one of these everyone.

918
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Died, everyone.

919
00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Called, and then there were none.

920
00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:50.239
<v Speaker 1>And then there were none. Is the name of the novel.

921
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:53.159
<v Speaker 2>It was was how Hollywood dealt with the but I

922
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:55.719
<v Speaker 2>mean that's how that's how a word. It was in

923
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:56.559
<v Speaker 2>the English language.

924
00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I played the judge writer in England, I played the

925
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.199
<v Speaker 1>judge in that in the High school, and it was

926
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:05.280
<v Speaker 1>the job I was well, I had a very specific

927
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:11.719
<v Speaker 1>conception that role. No, but I uh I uh okay,

928
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:16.199
<v Speaker 1>this is another you know, name dropping Hollywood anecdote, this

929
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:19.440
<v Speaker 1>time a slightly bigger star for you. I've worked for

930
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:25.519
<v Speaker 1>years intermittently, happily but intermittently on a project that I

931
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:28.280
<v Speaker 1>was pretty sure was going to never go uh with

932
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Morgan Freeman, and I spent a lot of time with him.

933
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.960
<v Speaker 1>It was a lovely, really thoughtful, incredibly smart guy, been

934
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:35.960
<v Speaker 1>around like just could tell great stories and just a

935
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:39.639
<v Speaker 1>wonderful guy. So I would fly to Mississippi where he

936
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:42.760
<v Speaker 1>lived a lot of the time. He was born in Charleston, Mississippi,

937
00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:44.840
<v Speaker 1>and we would you have dinner and he'd tell me stories.

938
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:46.239
<v Speaker 1>And we were working on a story set in the

939
00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Mississippi Delta, which actually was turned out was a great

940
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:50.760
<v Speaker 1>great would have been a great series. And then he

941
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:52.280
<v Speaker 1>had a car accident, a lot of other things happened,

942
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:55.039
<v Speaker 1>so we didn't quite make it. Uh, But he told

943
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:57.599
<v Speaker 1>me he would tell me each time, he would tell

944
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:04.880
<v Speaker 1>me stories of encountering uh uh old Mississippi guys, old

945
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Mississippi white guys.

946
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

947
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:08.920
<v Speaker 1>And he was a movie star, so they won't talk

948
00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:11.079
<v Speaker 1>to him, and the things that they would say. And

949
00:54:11.119 --> 00:54:13.559
<v Speaker 1>he said, this one old guy he likes very much,

950
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:14.960
<v Speaker 1>so he's a friend of his. But the old guy

951
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:16.960
<v Speaker 1>would talk about At one point said they're there. They're

952
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:20.400
<v Speaker 1>having a drink because Morgan had and a friend of

953
00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:23.000
<v Speaker 1>his who's also helped on this project. They owned this

954
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:27.760
<v Speaker 1>giant blues club called Ground Zero and Morgan, so they're

955
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:29.360
<v Speaker 1>sitting there having drink and he goes, yeah, Morgan, I

956
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:32.719
<v Speaker 1>can't tell you how different my life is now and

957
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:36.360
<v Speaker 1>how different I am and my thoughts about you know,

958
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:44.000
<v Speaker 1>the various social and cultural things that you Yeah, exactly.

959
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.920
<v Speaker 1>He's basically making this kind of confession about how he's

960
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.880
<v Speaker 1>changed over time, and he says, you know, for instance,

961
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.119
<v Speaker 1>I I'll be honest with you, when I's growing up

962
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:54.400
<v Speaker 1>for a long time, I would use the N word,

963
00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:58.400
<v Speaker 1>and my my, my father, my grandfather, the whole family

964
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:00.000
<v Speaker 1>they used it. I mean, we used it all the time.

965
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:02.360
<v Speaker 1>And I will not use that word. I would never

966
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:05.360
<v Speaker 1>use that word, and I will tell the young people

967
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:08.480
<v Speaker 1>in my world that that word is absolutely you did

968
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:10.559
<v Speaker 1>not allowed to use the N word. And then he

969
00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:12.000
<v Speaker 1>said you pause, took a sip of his drink. But

970
00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:13.800
<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, you know, I hear the Ends

971
00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:16.599
<v Speaker 1>using it all the time. The Ends are driving up

972
00:55:16.599 --> 00:55:18.920
<v Speaker 1>and down they listen to their their music. That end

973
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:21.480
<v Speaker 1>music's got that word an word in all time. But

974
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the Ends just love that word more. You just love

975
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:26.639
<v Speaker 1>that story so much. You didn't wait to tell me

976
00:55:26.679 --> 00:55:27.320
<v Speaker 1>that story.

977
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh that is fantastic, by the way, Just cultural recommendation time.

978
00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of Mississippi, this uh you know movie Sensation Centers,

979
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:42.519
<v Speaker 2>which came out about a month ago. Yeah, with Michael B. Jordan,

980
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a story about twin brothers returning to their hometown in

981
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Mississippi and getting in order to open a big blues

982
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:59.760
<v Speaker 2>club juke joy like the one that you're talking about

983
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:04.320
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the depression, and uh get get

984
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:08.199
<v Speaker 2>waylaid by some vampires. And it is fantastic, which great

985
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:10.440
<v Speaker 2>idea it is a It is a The movie itself

986
00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:14.519
<v Speaker 2>is spectacular, and it deals with all kinds of weird. Basically,

987
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:18.159
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of the story of Robert Johnson, the famous,

988
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:22.800
<v Speaker 2>the famous, the mythical, mythical guitar blues guitarist.

989
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I can't see that movie because somebody explained

990
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.119
<v Speaker 1>that to me. And it was exactly what we were

991
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:32.639
<v Speaker 1>trying to do. We were trying to do this multi

992
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:36.360
<v Speaker 1>generational in and out, past and present, because there's no

993
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:41.280
<v Speaker 1>spookier place in America than the city, and it's got

994
00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:42.960
<v Speaker 1>all this great story. It's just too.

995
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

996
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:48.000
<v Speaker 1>And Robert Johnson the story, well, Robert Johns the story.

997
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Robert Johnson was a young uh blues guitarist and he

998
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:54.800
<v Speaker 1>was terrible. He was terrible, and they were hooting him

999
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:56.800
<v Speaker 1>off the stage. I mean, I wrote that I have

1000
00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:01.320
<v Speaker 1>a scene written and he goes uh and he leaves

1001
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and he's sitting in the crossroads over sixty one and

1002
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:07.000
<v Speaker 1>something else, and it happens to be a full moon

1003
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:10.280
<v Speaker 1>and suddenly there's an old man sitting next to him

1004
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 1>and it's the Devil. And that was good. That was

1005
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.840
<v Speaker 1>the part that Morgan was gonna play. He was gonna

1006
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:18.519
<v Speaker 1>play the devil who has been living in the Delta

1007
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:24.199
<v Speaker 1>forever and just he's always there and the guy is

1008
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.639
<v Speaker 1>a Robert Johnson, and he basically makes a deal because

1009
00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:30.400
<v Speaker 1>the Mississippi Delta is like, we're a million deals being made,

1010
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:34.199
<v Speaker 1>and he wants to he wants to play the guitar

1011
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:38.760
<v Speaker 1>because the reading exactly right. It's the cutter of the

1012
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:41.559
<v Speaker 1>He wants play guitar because he's like been, he's been

1013
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:44.519
<v Speaker 1>dissed by all these all the hot girls in the club.

1014
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Nobody wants to do anything with anything to do with

1015
00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:49.039
<v Speaker 1>him because he can't play. And so he sells his

1016
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:53.159
<v Speaker 1>soul and comes back to the club, disappears for about

1017
00:57:53.159 --> 00:57:54.719
<v Speaker 1>a year, comes back to the club. But this is

1018
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:56.440
<v Speaker 1>all true, though. He did disappear for a year and

1019
00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:58.920
<v Speaker 1>come back, and he's one of the best loose guitars,

1020
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:01.960
<v Speaker 1>if not, he created this and he created the whole genre.

1021
00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:06.480
<v Speaker 1>And and you know that kicked off the show. It's

1022
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:08.039
<v Speaker 1>a great story.

1023
00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:10.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean right, So the idea of how did

1024
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:14.679
<v Speaker 2>this kid couldn't play here come back as the greatest

1025
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:18.639
<v Speaker 2>guitarist anyone had ever heard? And the story was, obviously

1026
00:58:18.679 --> 00:58:20.760
<v Speaker 2>he must have sold his soul to the devil. And

1027
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:23.760
<v Speaker 2>so this is one of the great American myths and

1028
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:25.760
<v Speaker 2>it is at the center of Centers. And I really

1029
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:29.199
<v Speaker 2>do highly recommend Centners, but not to rob because it

1030
00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:32.360
<v Speaker 2>is really awful, I have to say. And I've known

1031
00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:38.880
<v Speaker 2>people who have had this experience when when somebody makes

1032
00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:42.599
<v Speaker 2>something that you wrote and then does it like and

1033
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:44.400
<v Speaker 2>you're like, I don't care if it's good.

1034
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:46.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm never going to know the worst thing in the

1035
00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:46.480
<v Speaker 1>world is.

1036
00:58:49.719 --> 00:58:58.159
<v Speaker 2>Great. Yeah. So I Jonah's mother and I became friends because.

1037
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.960
<v Speaker 1>I came winter how that sentence went.

1038
00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:06.519
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen eighty two because I had an idea for

1039
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:10.519
<v Speaker 2>a humor book, and it was a parody, full on

1040
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:13.760
<v Speaker 2>cover to cover of TV Guide, like a week of

1041
00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:17.800
<v Speaker 2>TV Guide. And this was when parody books were like

1042
00:59:18.519 --> 00:59:20.360
<v Speaker 2>all the rage. And my idea is we would do

1043
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:24.000
<v Speaker 2>a fake issue of TV Guide, like the Sunday newspaper

1044
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.639
<v Speaker 2>parody that National Impoon put out or the Yuppi Handbook

1045
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:29.119
<v Speaker 2>or something like that, and the week and it was

1046
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:32.079
<v Speaker 2>really good. And I'm telling you right now, it was

1047
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:35.199
<v Speaker 2>really really good. And we did you know, I don't know.

1048
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I did twenty five pages of it, a day's worth

1049
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:41.480
<v Speaker 2>of listings, articles, whatever, and then was gonna and the

1050
00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:44.360
<v Speaker 2>day that we were taking it out to market, somebody

1051
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:48.840
<v Speaker 2>bought one. Yeah, you know this firm, Andrews and McNeil

1052
00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:51.280
<v Speaker 2>or whatever they decided they were going to They made

1053
00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:54.159
<v Speaker 2>a deal with Tony Hendra or somebody like that to

1054
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:57.719
<v Speaker 2>do a TV Guide parody. And I was heartbroken. And

1055
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.519
<v Speaker 2>then it came out a year later and it's steak

1056
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.320
<v Speaker 2>and it was a complete bomb in the marketplace, and

1057
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:07.840
<v Speaker 2>that was very satisfying that.

1058
01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it's worse because then you're like, well, well

1059
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:11.960
<v Speaker 1>we have a good one, like, no, we've tried it,

1060
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:14.519
<v Speaker 1>and that happens and Joe is a lot. We've tried it. It

1061
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:16.280
<v Speaker 1>doesn't work. What do you mean it doesn't work?

1062
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:17.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1063
01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Everything can work.

1064
01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:20.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, now you could just put out what

1065
01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:24.119
<v Speaker 2>you did on the internet, but then it had to

1066
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:27.239
<v Speaker 2>it was going to be mimetically perfect and all of that.

1067
01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:29.119
<v Speaker 2>That is a that is a that is a rough.

1068
01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:30.320
<v Speaker 1>That is a rough.

1069
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:40.079
<v Speaker 2>Go all right, so I guess waiting it? Are we

1070
01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:41.400
<v Speaker 2>just going to keep doing this? Is that?

1071
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:43.079
<v Speaker 1>That was a fun conversation, don't you think?

1072
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:43.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1073
01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And because you're yeah, no, it was was fine.

1074
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:48.239
<v Speaker 2>It was good.

1075
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:51.119
<v Speaker 1>It was wait, voice, what up? When your voice goes

1076
01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:51.519
<v Speaker 1>up like that?

1077
01:00:51.679 --> 01:00:52.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1078
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:55.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe we can't. Maybe we should change the name

1079
01:00:56.599 --> 01:01:03.440
<v Speaker 3>of this HBO he Max bought Max Max klob.

1080
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:09.280
<v Speaker 2>So it was HBO Max. First it was HBO, then

1081
01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:12.159
<v Speaker 2>it was HBO Go, then it was HBO Max, then

1082
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:18.199
<v Speaker 2>it was Max and now it is HBO Max again. Right, okay,

1083
01:01:18.280 --> 01:01:21.480
<v Speaker 2>here's my quick question for you, David Zaslov, who now

1084
01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:24.079
<v Speaker 2>is the runs Warner Brothers Discovery, which is the parent

1085
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:28.280
<v Speaker 2>company ran Discovery, right that we ran the Discovery networks,

1086
01:01:28.519 --> 01:01:32.719
<v Speaker 2>which were wildly successful and so successful that this guy

1087
01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:36.519
<v Speaker 2>five six, seven years ago made and I'm not kidding,

1088
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:39.920
<v Speaker 2>in salary one hundred and fifty million dollars a year

1089
01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 2>in salary at Discovery. So the engineered this thing. Discovery

1090
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:49.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of takes over Warner Brothers and he's running everything

1091
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:52.519
<v Speaker 2>after at and T screws up and all this okay,

1092
01:01:53.519 --> 01:01:59.679
<v Speaker 2>and he's now making fifty million, one hundred and fifty million.

1093
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Now I'm expect and people are saying okay, And people

1094
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:09.079
<v Speaker 2>are saying okay, people are saying, this is the dumbest

1095
01:02:09.079 --> 01:02:10.559
<v Speaker 2>thing I've ever seen. What do you mean? They're calling

1096
01:02:10.599 --> 01:02:13.880
<v Speaker 2>it HBO. They could have just why did they ever change?

1097
01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:17.400
<v Speaker 2>This is this is what you get, This is the innovation,

1098
01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:20.480
<v Speaker 2>this is what's going to turn the company around. What

1099
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:23.519
<v Speaker 2>the hell is going on? And I keep having these experiences,

1100
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:25.880
<v Speaker 2>particularly when I read about show business or about mergers

1101
01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:30.320
<v Speaker 2>or about anything, where it's like, really, these people make

1102
01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:34.760
<v Speaker 2>one hundred million dollars a year. And this is what

1103
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:37.760
<v Speaker 2>they do. Explain this.

1104
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:43.920
<v Speaker 1>To I have a metric that I intend to use

1105
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:50.000
<v Speaker 1>like it's like it's the base input is number of meetings.

1106
01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:54.559
<v Speaker 1>So the number of meetings that this calling it HBO,

1107
01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:58.440
<v Speaker 1>HBO Go, HBO max max and back to HBO max.

1108
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:00.480
<v Speaker 1>The number of meeting and meeting hours supposed to have

1109
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:03.840
<v Speaker 1>been well, number meetings must have been at least two dozen,

1110
01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:05.559
<v Speaker 1>so the number of eighty hours must have been at least

1111
01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:08.880
<v Speaker 1>a thousand, probably a thousand hours of either consultant time

1112
01:03:09.079 --> 01:03:14.280
<v Speaker 1>or an executive time to do basically nothing. And the

1113
01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:18.400
<v Speaker 1>problem with HBO and HBO max and max and HBO

1114
01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:21.199
<v Speaker 1>max has nothing to do with what they called it

1115
01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:25.880
<v Speaker 1>right there, the amount of effort and money and time

1116
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:28.880
<v Speaker 1>spent trying to fix a thing that isn't. The problem

1117
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.719
<v Speaker 1>is everything you need to know about why they show

1118
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:36.719
<v Speaker 1>businesses in trouble and maybe why businesses get in trouble.

1119
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:39.719
<v Speaker 2>So, Rob, you wrote a really great piece for me,

1120
01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:44.280
<v Speaker 2>thank you, thank you about bob Iger bob Iger, Yeah,

1121
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:48.440
<v Speaker 2>out of Disney and basically based on his using his memoir,

1122
01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:51.840
<v Speaker 2>and the question is bob Iger was this wildly successful,

1123
01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:55.280
<v Speaker 2>like the most successful entertainment executive of his time and

1124
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:57.320
<v Speaker 2>took Disney to New Heights and all this, and he

1125
01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:00.639
<v Speaker 2>wrote this book called Right of a Lifetime or something

1126
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:05.239
<v Speaker 2>like that, and the book begins with him deciding in

1127
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:07.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen to have an off site with all of

1128
01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:12.559
<v Speaker 2>his lead saying, we need to make our path for

1129
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:15.559
<v Speaker 2>the future. And it's going to be streaming because you

1130
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.519
<v Speaker 2>can see Netflix here it is and Netflix and streaming

1131
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:22.679
<v Speaker 2>and Netflix and this whole thing basically is his bid

1132
01:04:22.679 --> 01:04:25.920
<v Speaker 2>for immortality in the book by saying that unlike other

1133
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.599
<v Speaker 2>corporate executives who sat on their laurels and missed the moment,

1134
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:33.199
<v Speaker 2>he had jumped on it early. He had seen the threat,

1135
01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:36.079
<v Speaker 2>he had addressed it, he was working on it. And

1136
01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:38.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, three years later or something that they introduce,

1137
01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:43.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, Disney Plus, and isn't this fantastic? Okay? Flash forward,

1138
01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:51.880
<v Speaker 2>it's twenty twenty five and Disney Plus has materially destroyed Marvel.

1139
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.440
<v Speaker 1>And Star Wars, the two.

1140
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Things that they bought. Disney Plus said to Marvel, make

1141
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:01.639
<v Speaker 2>us twelve television series and they did. And now nobody

1142
01:05:01.639 --> 01:05:03.880
<v Speaker 2>cares about Marvel anymore because there was too much of

1143
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:07.320
<v Speaker 2>it and it was too junkie, and this incredible cash

1144
01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:10.360
<v Speaker 2>cow and the driver of show business for twenty years

1145
01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:13.320
<v Speaker 2>was ruined. And even though and or the latest Star

1146
01:05:13.360 --> 01:05:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Wars thing is great, it is great, it is great,

1147
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:20.320
<v Speaker 2>did exactly the same to Star Wars series after some

1148
01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:23.920
<v Speaker 2>bad series, after the Acolyte at Obi Wan Kenobi and

1149
01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:27.719
<v Speaker 2>the Book of Boba Fett and this and that, and

1150
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:32.440
<v Speaker 2>they created this series. They created the service to save Disney,

1151
01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:39.480
<v Speaker 2>and they basically killed their milkcows and they over milked

1152
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:42.880
<v Speaker 2>their milk cows and now they're ruined. And it's interesting

1153
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:46.840
<v Speaker 2>because had he just retired, had he just retired and

1154
01:05:46.880 --> 01:05:49.840
<v Speaker 2>gone off into the sunset and not come back or whatever,

1155
01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:52.400
<v Speaker 2>had he not done this and he had just like, oh,

1156
01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:54.519
<v Speaker 2>you know what, it's twenty eighteen. I guess we better

1157
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:57.320
<v Speaker 2>have a good streaming service. We'll just do it in

1158
01:05:57.320 --> 01:05:59.280
<v Speaker 2>a year and we'll throw some stuff up and see

1159
01:05:59.320 --> 01:06:06.639
<v Speaker 2>what happens. He wouldn't have had this drive to copy

1160
01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Netflix and and try to compete there when Disney was

1161
01:06:11.079 --> 01:06:12.679
<v Speaker 2>doing just fine.

1162
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Where it was yep, yep.

1163
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:19.519
<v Speaker 2>It's like the fear of not being innovative ended up being.

1164
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:26.239
<v Speaker 1>There is a thing called pilot induced turbulence. And it's

1165
01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:29.320
<v Speaker 1>when you're flying and your hand is on the stick

1166
01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:32.280
<v Speaker 1>and you maybe hit a little buck, small buck, and

1167
01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:35.280
<v Speaker 1>then you compensate for that, and then because you compensated,

1168
01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:37.079
<v Speaker 1>maybe you overcompensate a little bit, and then you kind

1169
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:39.280
<v Speaker 1>of now you need to recompensate for that, and then

1170
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:41.679
<v Speaker 1>compensate for that, and before you know it, you're convinced

1171
01:06:41.679 --> 01:06:44.800
<v Speaker 1>that you've hit choppy air because you keep bouncing up

1172
01:06:44.840 --> 01:06:47.679
<v Speaker 1>and down. But actually you've created all that turbulence yourself.

1173
01:06:48.119 --> 01:06:49.760
<v Speaker 1>And so they sometimes that happens in a big car.

1174
01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:54.199
<v Speaker 1>They always hit a little your cabinet, me a little

1175
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.760
<v Speaker 1>choppy air up here. So I'm gonna put on a

1176
01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:01.679
<v Speaker 1>he did it, he created it. It's because you just

1177
01:07:01.719 --> 01:07:02.679
<v Speaker 1>script it to tight.

1178
01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Jonah blame the captain. Then Jonah hates Jonah is the

1179
01:07:07.639 --> 01:07:10.320
<v Speaker 2>person I know who flies the most, who hates flying

1180
01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the most.

1181
01:07:11.960 --> 01:07:12.800
<v Speaker 1>Fair.

1182
01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:16.039
<v Speaker 2>It's really not fair. And I think you should go

1183
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:17.119
<v Speaker 2>and yell at the captain.

1184
01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Just pound on the door. They love that, They love that.

1185
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:22.039
<v Speaker 2>And you know you're not going to get in trouble

1186
01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:22.639
<v Speaker 2>or anything, but.

1187
01:07:22.679 --> 01:07:23.719
<v Speaker 1>Put on a fun accent.

1188
01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:27.920
<v Speaker 2>They have guns now, they are they are?

1189
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:30.400
<v Speaker 3>They not allowed to carry guns. I love to do

1190
01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:38.280
<v Speaker 3>is yellar? That's great coffee anyway?

1191
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:43.519
<v Speaker 2>And or is great? I mean, Andre just finished unbelievably

1192
01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:47.280
<v Speaker 2>innovative second season. Did this thing where they released three

1193
01:07:47.400 --> 01:07:52.360
<v Speaker 2>episodes per week each. These three episodes are take place

1194
01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:56.920
<v Speaker 2>each a year apart, as we approach closer and closer

1195
01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:05.440
<v Speaker 2>to the moment that theos are sent to Aldron Tattooine

1196
01:08:06.760 --> 01:08:10.559
<v Speaker 2>and Luke finds them and sees the hologram of Princess

1197
01:08:10.639 --> 01:08:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Leah saying help me Obi wan Kenobi are my only hope?

1198
01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:19.239
<v Speaker 2>That was That's the entire backstory. Wow, twenty seven hours

1199
01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of backstory and it's back to that moment. I know

1200
01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:22.479
<v Speaker 2>we got to get out.

1201
01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:24.960
<v Speaker 3>But you know, one of my my my basic take

1202
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:27.800
<v Speaker 3>about why it's so good, unlike so much other stuff,

1203
01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:34.359
<v Speaker 3>is that one of the first rules of fantasy stuff,

1204
01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:38.399
<v Speaker 3>of escapism, sci fi, whatever, is you have to take yourself.

1205
01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:43.680
<v Speaker 3>You have to take your actual product seriously. And so

1206
01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:45.439
<v Speaker 3>much of the Star Wars stuff you saw it with

1207
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:49.039
<v Speaker 3>the problem with George Lucas was he had little kids

1208
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:53.239
<v Speaker 3>when he was making those prequels and they were his

1209
01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:56.079
<v Speaker 3>test audience, and so they're all of these scenes in

1210
01:08:56.119 --> 01:09:02.439
<v Speaker 3>those originals, not the originals in the sequels sequel prequel sequels,

1211
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:05.640
<v Speaker 3>Attack of the Clone, Revenge of the Cess, where they

1212
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:10.840
<v Speaker 3>basically wink or make inside jokes that only work in

1213
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:12.159
<v Speaker 3>our universe, right, that.

1214
01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Like like like little sort of cutesy.

1215
01:09:14.680 --> 01:09:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's got to hurt, right, And these kinds of

1216
01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:19.680
<v Speaker 3>references that take you out of things. And we I

1217
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:21.439
<v Speaker 3>wrote about a little bit for the commentary piece about

1218
01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:25.279
<v Speaker 3>Battlestar Galactago where where Obi Wan Kenobi, young Obi Wan

1219
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:28.800
<v Speaker 3>Kenobi has to get a little dig in against George w.

1220
01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:33.199
<v Speaker 3>Bush with you know, uh when when Young Anakin Skywalker

1221
01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:37.039
<v Speaker 3>says if you're not with me, you're against me, which

1222
01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:39.600
<v Speaker 3>was like obviously a reference to the whole Moor Entior stuff,

1223
01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:43.479
<v Speaker 3>and and George and and George Lucas the rose away

1224
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:49.319
<v Speaker 3>the entire metaphysics of the Force by saying only sith

1225
01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:52.479
<v Speaker 3>deals and absolutes. Well, wait a second, I'm a burkiyan,

1226
01:09:52.520 --> 01:09:54.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm with you. But the whole point of the freaking

1227
01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:55.960
<v Speaker 3>Force was there's a light side of the dark slide

1228
01:09:56.119 --> 01:09:58.479
<v Speaker 3>was mannekean, and there's all these things that they throw

1229
01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:00.199
<v Speaker 3>out and and or gets back to this thing where

1230
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:05.199
<v Speaker 3>it takes itself seriously and lets you take it seriously

1231
01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:06.720
<v Speaker 3>in a way that you can't with a lot of

1232
01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:08.239
<v Speaker 3>those other crap that they put out.

1233
01:10:08.840 --> 01:10:10.960
<v Speaker 2>See what I love about it, what I loved about it,

1234
01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:12.800
<v Speaker 2>and by the way, I love it even though I

1235
01:10:12.880 --> 01:10:16.800
<v Speaker 2>hate its politics. It's basically a Howard Zinn story. And

1236
01:10:17.079 --> 01:10:19.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's a lot of There's a lot there,

1237
01:10:20.319 --> 01:10:22.560
<v Speaker 2>just as there's the cyth deals and absolutes. There's a

1238
01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:27.119
<v Speaker 2>whole Fox News subplot there is, I mean, but it's

1239
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.960
<v Speaker 2>done so much better. It's not cartoony, so no, it's

1240
01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:33.079
<v Speaker 2>so it's it's it's beautifully dumb, but it is there anyway.

1241
01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Is that like Game of Thrones, which I also loved,

1242
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:44.199
<v Speaker 2>You don't have to cringe at the fantasy elements because

1243
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:50.119
<v Speaker 2>it's really it's about backdoor politics, right, That's.

1244
01:10:49.960 --> 01:11:01.319
<v Speaker 1>What I like about it. Nice go politics by thirty

1245
01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:07.399
<v Speaker 1>years in Hollywood Bike Gavin mclos it's fair.

1246
01:11:08.039 --> 01:11:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I mean, let's get back to

1247
01:11:11.079 --> 01:11:11.960
<v Speaker 2>paul In jokes.

1248
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:16.119
<v Speaker 1>Paul In jokes, and what do you mean, what are

1249
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:17.399
<v Speaker 1>you insinuating.

1250
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Richard Richard Deacon ellen Brady's brother in law. Yeah, yeah,

1251
01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:25.560
<v Speaker 2>needed a job because otherwise he was going to be

1252
01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:31.079
<v Speaker 2>out on Christopher Street. As you might say, anyway, sorry,

1253
01:11:32.359 --> 01:11:37.479
<v Speaker 2>uh so and watch and or Centers, except unless you're rob.

1254
01:11:37.960 --> 01:11:38.680
<v Speaker 1>I'll see it anyway.

1255
01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:40.159
<v Speaker 2>I jack right on.

1256
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:42.960
<v Speaker 3>Brit Box is fun. It's kind of nuts, but it's fun.

1257
01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:46.920
<v Speaker 3>Brit Box is playing games though the whole season's out

1258
01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:49.439
<v Speaker 3>and they're holding on to the last two episodes to

1259
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:51.960
<v Speaker 3>get people to check out other things on brit Box.

1260
01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:55.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh and it's so freaking obnoxious, but.

1261
01:11:57.079 --> 01:11:57.760
<v Speaker 2>That is not good.

1262
01:11:58.760 --> 01:12:01.159
<v Speaker 1>Brit Box is fun because you and you and you.

1263
01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:06.680
<v Speaker 1>There's like a category for murder mysteries in like the

1264
01:12:07.439 --> 01:12:13.159
<v Speaker 1>countryside and and it's like the endless scroll You've never

1265
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:15.399
<v Speaker 1>you never see is it?

1266
01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Because I've never been on brother this is like countryside,

1267
01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:24.199
<v Speaker 2>Scotland yard, Manchester Police Department. Right, That's how I would

1268
01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:25.000
<v Speaker 2>That's how.

1269
01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:29.079
<v Speaker 1>It's more like you know that the Somerset County murders.

1270
01:12:29.800 --> 01:12:33.960
<v Speaker 1>It's like and it's just a it's just everybody in

1271
01:12:34.239 --> 01:12:38.079
<v Speaker 1>rural England is is killing everybody else in rural England.

1272
01:12:38.319 --> 01:12:42.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll see what. I always showing up showing up

1273
01:12:42.359 --> 01:12:44.800
<v Speaker 2>at my parents' house and they're like what is this

1274
01:12:44.920 --> 01:12:51.319
<v Speaker 2>And they're like, well, it's Inspector McGill cutty. Okay, you know,

1275
01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:55.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean I sort of jumped off this at Prime suspect.

1276
01:12:55.159 --> 01:12:59.680
<v Speaker 2>But okay, that was many, many, many you guys like Modland.

1277
01:12:59.359 --> 01:12:59.760
<v Speaker 3>Not like my.

1278
01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:04.159
<v Speaker 1>It's okay, I saw my thing.

1279
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm sposed to I'm supposed to watch it. I mean,

1280
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Pierce Brosidon is fantastic good in general. Yeah, he has

1281
01:13:11.479 --> 01:13:13.920
<v Speaker 2>had a very interesting career. Like he's a guy who

1282
01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:16.880
<v Speaker 2>like every five years pops up and you're like, man,

1283
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:17.439
<v Speaker 2>he's good.

1284
01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:18.560
<v Speaker 1>He's really good.

1285
01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:21.199
<v Speaker 2>And now he must be in his late seventy I

1286
01:13:21.279 --> 01:13:23.840
<v Speaker 2>mean he must, right, Revington Steel was forty some odd

1287
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:25.960
<v Speaker 2>years ago, so it's got to be in the seventies.

1288
01:13:26.399 --> 01:13:29.960
<v Speaker 1>Like, boy is he good looking? Yeah, guy like that.

1289
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:34.159
<v Speaker 1>I've never heard anyone say anything about him that isn't.

1290
01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh he's the nicest, greatest guy. Oh he's a running

1291
01:13:38.039 --> 01:13:40.319
<v Speaker 1>to people and they oh he's you know, I had

1292
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:42.560
<v Speaker 1>a flat tire and he fixed it some crazy stuff,

1293
01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:45.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, Like he's just apparently the world's nicest person.

1294
01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:46.960
<v Speaker 2>So can I give you one piece of credit before

1295
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:48.800
<v Speaker 2>we go, Rob, because I think you're the one who

1296
01:13:48.840 --> 01:13:51.439
<v Speaker 2>came up with this, because you mentioned the Liza meeting

1297
01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:54.159
<v Speaker 2>Tom in the hallway and they kissing and everything. He's

1298
01:13:54.399 --> 01:13:57.880
<v Speaker 2>never matter Before that you said, there's this world. There

1299
01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:03.279
<v Speaker 2>are these people. They're all face famous celebrities, and they

1300
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:07.800
<v Speaker 2>all feel like they're part of the same They're like

1301
01:14:08.079 --> 01:14:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Jews as saint. It doesn't matter if they've never met,

1302
01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:15.199
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter. They know each other. They're all part of

1303
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:20.079
<v Speaker 2>the same congregation, and they can immediately be familiar because

1304
01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:24.800
<v Speaker 2>nobody knows what it is like except them. They they're

1305
01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:27.000
<v Speaker 2>the only people. It's sort of like the ex presidents.

1306
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Nobody knows what it's like to be really famous except

1307
01:14:30.119 --> 01:14:34.039
<v Speaker 2>really famous people, and really famous people don't live normal lives,

1308
01:14:34.159 --> 01:14:38.800
<v Speaker 2>and so they have this instant connection. It's like when

1309
01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:42.239
<v Speaker 2>you see the photograph my favorite photograph, which is it's

1310
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:46.119
<v Speaker 2>the cast of Happy Days, and they're standing there and

1311
01:14:46.239 --> 01:14:48.199
<v Speaker 2>in the middle there's this kid, and if you look

1312
01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:51.520
<v Speaker 2>really closely, you'll notice that it's Sean Lennon. And then

1313
01:14:51.680 --> 01:14:56.000
<v Speaker 2>on the left standing there also smiling is John Lennon.

1314
01:14:57.039 --> 01:14:58.399
<v Speaker 2>So it's John Lennon.

1315
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:02.720
<v Speaker 1>And Potzi, yeah, right, and Ralph.

1316
01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:07.680
<v Speaker 2>And on the far side is Henry Winkler and and

1317
01:15:07.840 --> 01:15:11.159
<v Speaker 2>then Ron Howard. But basically Potzy and Ralph get to

1318
01:15:11.199 --> 01:15:14.199
<v Speaker 2>be in a photo with John Lennon has more in

1319
01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:17.880
<v Speaker 2>common with Potzy and Ralph than he does with.

1320
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:20.399
<v Speaker 1>It's all show business. Everybody in show business isn't show

1321
01:15:20.439 --> 01:15:25.640
<v Speaker 1>business and it's your Vin vendors. You're Mikyl Rischikov, You're

1322
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Joyce Boulevard. It's all show business. And don't act like,

1323
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:32.399
<v Speaker 1>oh well, I'm I'm, I'm, I'm I'm really actually a

1324
01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:35.159
<v Speaker 1>very well known But no, no, no, you're you're in

1325
01:15:35.199 --> 01:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>show business.

1326
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:38.359
<v Speaker 2>And I just want to say that Joyce Ballafan is

1327
01:15:38.439 --> 01:15:44.239
<v Speaker 2>no Arleane Golanka. That's what I have to say. All Right,

1328
01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:48.079
<v Speaker 2>So we'll we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll do this again.

1329
01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:51.680
<v Speaker 1>One one glop at a time. We're not gonna one

1330
01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:52.399
<v Speaker 1>at a time.

1331
01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Uh. And we could do the inter music from One

1332
01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Day at a Time for the top of the show.

1333
01:15:57.079 --> 01:16:01.319
<v Speaker 2>There you go. Maybe maybe some quotes from Schneider Schneider

1334
01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:04.800
<v Speaker 2>the only Jewish, the only you know, Pat Pat Harrington,

1335
01:16:05.279 --> 01:16:10.319
<v Speaker 2>famous Irish comic playing a Jewish super in Indianapolis because

1336
01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:15.359
<v Speaker 2>it's American comic from Queens only in America said of

1337
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the mayor of Dublin, who was Jewish, told that Bobby Briscoe,

1338
01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:21.319
<v Speaker 2>the mayor of Dublin, was Jewish. Yo Eberra, who turned

1339
01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:24.359
<v Speaker 2>a hundred, who would have turned a hundred three days ago,

1340
01:16:25.039 --> 01:17:03.039
<v Speaker 2>said only in America, all right, mistake and legging one

1341
01:17:03.159 --> 01:17:07.159
<v Speaker 2>day is shide one day, one day inside.

1342
01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:09.520
<v Speaker 1>His side.

1343
01:17:10.840 --> 01:17:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Day inside.

1344
01:17:18.079 --> 01:17:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Can't top that