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<v Speaker 1>Hey, folks, we are recording at stable Coins Summit NYC,

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<v Speaker 1>co hosted by PayPal and borderle Us XYZ and joining

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<v Speaker 1>me is Ellie Faresi, who is the lead software engineer

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<v Speaker 1>at Dynamic. Ellie, great to have you, Hey, thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>having me.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm excited to learn about Dynamic. Let's kick it

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<v Speaker 1>off with your background. Tell us about where you're from.

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<v Speaker 1>How'd you get into crypto and things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'd love to, like you said, my name is Ellie.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been in crypto since twenty seventeen. Twenty nineteen is

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<v Speaker 2>when I started dabbling in it. Left my tech job

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<v Speaker 2>at NBC full time to join a Web three startup

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty, so I've been a full stack Web

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<v Speaker 2>three engineer for I don't know however many years that

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<v Speaker 2>is now at this point. I love building products. I

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<v Speaker 2>love being in like a hackathon mindset. I then left

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<v Speaker 2>that startup that I was working at to found my

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<v Speaker 2>own company called Bellow, which was a data analytics product

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<v Speaker 2>focusing on marketers and creators and Web three at the

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<v Speaker 2>time to help them understand their audience anywhere a wallet touched.

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<v Speaker 2>It was during that period that I actually met the

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<v Speaker 2>founders of Dynamic. We were a Dynamic customer as well

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<v Speaker 2>during that time and loved the team immensely and I

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<v Speaker 2>left below in October of twenty twenty three four twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four, sorry dates remembering, and joined Dynamic And it's

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<v Speaker 2>been an incredible experience building out their embedded wallets team.

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<v Speaker 2>I lead the engineering there for embedded wallets and it's

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<v Speaker 2>been Yeah, it's been awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>So give us an overview Dynamic and all the services

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<v Speaker 1>and infrastructure and solutions you offer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Dynamics started probably similar to the time that

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<v Speaker 2>my company had started, maybe theirs was a bit before,

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<v Speaker 2>like twenty twenty one, really focusing on how do people

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<v Speaker 2>access crypto and use crypto, and that was such a

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<v Speaker 2>big problem in still as today. Frankly, at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>the main key point we were trying to solve was

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<v Speaker 2>around authentication, like how do you give people an ability

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<v Speaker 2>to log in with their email and connect their wallet

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<v Speaker 2>and really have the access come to this off layer.

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<v Speaker 2>So authentication was the core main focus. And as we

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<v Speaker 2>started building, growing with more customers, more sophisticated customers especially,

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<v Speaker 2>we realize that it's not just like how do you

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<v Speaker 2>connect these wallets that you have. It's how do you

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<v Speaker 2>actually give a wallet to somebody who doesn't have a wallet,

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<v Speaker 2>an application that doesn't have a wallet, And so instead

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<v Speaker 2>of making you have to go like get a meta

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<v Speaker 2>mask or a coinbase, a wallet account or any of

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<v Speaker 2>these things, you can now just like build your app

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<v Speaker 2>as you would, log in with an email, get a

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<v Speaker 2>wallet and a secure wallet at that.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. So is it kind of a dynamic wallet setup

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<v Speaker 1>where it's generated uniquely.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it's all based on you authenticating as a user.

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<v Speaker 2>So you log in, whether it's with your TikTok account

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<v Speaker 2>or Instagram or email, phone number, whatever you choose. From

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<v Speaker 2>your authentication, it's then giving you an embedded wallet into

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<v Speaker 2>the application, so you now have a fully functioning EOA.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a real wallet. It has a it can

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<v Speaker 2>have a private key like you can get private key

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<v Speaker 2>if you'd want to, but from the end user perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't matter to them. They just want to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to sign, transact all these things which may also

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<v Speaker 2>be hidden behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 1>So is it a self hosted wallet like you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>the private keys, where if I want, I can control

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<v Speaker 1>the private keys, but also if I lose those private

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<v Speaker 1>keys like any other.

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<v Speaker 2>So with with our offering, we leverage MPC and I

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<v Speaker 2>will try not to go too technical because that's that's

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<v Speaker 2>my background. But it's actually a non custodial wallet, so

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<v Speaker 2>there is no like we as dynamic have your private

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<v Speaker 2>keys any of that. The application developer also doesn't have

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<v Speaker 2>your private keys. It all works with this model of

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<v Speaker 2>share distribution where through the NPC libraries that we leverage,

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<v Speaker 2>there actually is never at a single point of creation

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<v Speaker 2>or signing a private key that exists. Oh wow, only

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<v Speaker 2>when you choose to go and leave the platform. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>say you can then bring the shares together to export.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a very secure model because if a private

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<v Speaker 2>key never exists, you can never get your private key stolen.

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<v Speaker 2>If your share gets stolen, it still doesn't necessarily mean

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<v Speaker 2>that you can bring all the other shares together because

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<v Speaker 2>it needs a quorum to be introduced.

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<v Speaker 1>And what companies or brands are you working with to

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<v Speaker 1>help them create these wallet services for their users.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think a really great use case for this

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<v Speaker 2>embedded wallet product is Kraken. Crackin's been around for a

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<v Speaker 2>very long time. They've had their centralized exchange and realize

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<v Speaker 2>that there's so many more things that they can offer

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<v Speaker 2>their customers as they move into the DeFi space. They

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<v Speaker 2>need a wallet for all of their customers right to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to do these lending, borrowing, all these different apps.

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<v Speaker 2>They're doing a ton of stuff on chain right now,

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<v Speaker 2>and each of them need a wallet. Kracken doesn't need

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<v Speaker 2>to be responsible for custoding or making their end users

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<v Speaker 2>have to have like hold the private keys themselves. That

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be a great devx or UX. So what they

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<v Speaker 2>do is leverage Dynamics embedded wallets, where again their customers

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<v Speaker 2>just log in with email, they get a wallet.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that makes things so much easier because you know

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned earlier, if you want to get people on

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<v Speaker 1>board on chain in Web three, you need to make

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<v Speaker 1>it easy. The on ram has to be seamless. You

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<v Speaker 1>highlighted the connection of web through platforms like TikTok right right.

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<v Speaker 1>That would make it a lot easier for the average

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<v Speaker 1>Joe and Jane, who you know, they may be scared

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<v Speaker 1>of ce phrases like oh my god, I have to

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<v Speaker 1>remember this and things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I think TikTok and that those kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of places are a really great use case, both as

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<v Speaker 2>the end user, but honestly more as the creator platform.

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<v Speaker 2>Because what does TikTok do with creators? It pays them.

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<v Speaker 2>And what do you need to get paid, either right

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<v Speaker 2>now a bank account or if you're using stable coins,

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<v Speaker 2>a wallet, And so if you could log in with

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<v Speaker 2>your TikTok account and you just automatically get a wallet,

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<v Speaker 2>and now as a creator, you can start getting paid

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<v Speaker 2>via this stable coin. You don't need to know it's

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<v Speaker 2>a stable coin, it's to you, it's a US dollar.

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<v Speaker 2>You really just start opening the opportunities of where crypto

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<v Speaker 2>can actually start being the fundamental layer under all of

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<v Speaker 2>these social apps, other financial apps, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't know how much you can reveal here,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm curious, are you using AI in anywhere? A

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<v Speaker 1>plan to use AI to assist in the walla generation

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<v Speaker 1>or assistance and things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So one of the big focuses as we launched

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<v Speaker 2>this new embedded wallet with NPC was actually offering a

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<v Speaker 2>server version of it. So what that means is that

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<v Speaker 2>if you're building agentic use cases, if you're saying, like

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<v Speaker 2>I want a trading bot that's like built using some

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<v Speaker 2>LM in the background that it can also be non

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<v Speaker 2>custodial because previously to have a trading bot, again, where

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<v Speaker 2>do you store those private keys if you're managing them,

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<v Speaker 2>like maybe you literally just have it on your computer,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not the most cure way to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>So with with Dynamic, you can leverage our embedded wallet

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<v Speaker 2>infrastructure to have a non custodial wallet where you don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to worry about the private keys. And now you

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<v Speaker 2>can start doing agentic use cases. And you can combine

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<v Speaker 2>this with the end user like login experience and a

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<v Speaker 2>server wallet, and so this the way you can do

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<v Speaker 2>this essentially with Dynamic is what we call delegation, where

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<v Speaker 2>you can have a wallet, say on TikTok or any

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<v Speaker 2>any financial app to like, you go to your banking app,

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<v Speaker 2>sure you get a wallet as the as the end user,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can delegate permissions to the application, so to

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok or too wells Fargo or whatever your your application

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<v Speaker 2>may be. Where now you can say I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>allow them to perform actions on my behalf. So say

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<v Speaker 2>every Monday at eight am, you want to set a

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<v Speaker 2>payment to go to your UH or every month I

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<v Speaker 2>have like a rent payment that goes because my rent

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<v Speaker 2>is old Florial in New York, and I have to

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<v Speaker 2>send a check, so I have to do a build

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<v Speaker 2>pay that way, that kind of system can exist now

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<v Speaker 2>through automation that they create in their back end that

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<v Speaker 2>they don't need to have your private key to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can just get a share of the wallet that

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<v Speaker 2>they can operate to some degree with limited permissions.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it? Are there any risk or vulnerabilities? And you

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<v Speaker 1>guys probably thought of all these things, but with the

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<v Speaker 1>connection of these social platforms being able to log in

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<v Speaker 1>that way, or you maybe could talk a bit about

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<v Speaker 1>the security layers.

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<v Speaker 2>And yes, I think about security all day, all night.

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<v Speaker 2>I dream about these problems. So I love this question

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<v Speaker 2>and that's really where I think what we do at

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<v Speaker 2>Dynamic with MPCTSS architecture is the best solution because it

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<v Speaker 2>is not saying that if you lose access to your

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok account, let's say that you whoever the bad actor is,

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<v Speaker 2>automatically gets your wallet. It's saying that they could potentially

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<v Speaker 2>get access to a share one single share, and one

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<v Speaker 2>single share on its own does not give you permission

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<v Speaker 2>to export a private key to sign a message, to

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<v Speaker 2>transfer any of that kind of stuff. It has to

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<v Speaker 2>be this combination so that on its core with TSS

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<v Speaker 2>NPC gives you immediate level of security that doesn't exist

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<v Speaker 2>with again traditional other providers that are working in the

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<v Speaker 2>embedded wallet space. On top of that, I think for

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<v Speaker 2>us as the people building the product, then it's how

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<v Speaker 2>do we take that a step further? Like the fundamental

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<v Speaker 2>is there secure? How can we then say what are

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<v Speaker 2>we detecting? When can we just detect that someone took

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<v Speaker 2>your account? We should be why can't we know that?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>And so can we block requests from even attempting to

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<v Speaker 2>be happening? If someone do we see a suspicious activity,

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<v Speaker 2>we're like, hey, this doesn't look like they're signing in

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<v Speaker 2>from their account. Immediately block the ability to export a

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<v Speaker 2>private key. And so there's all of this laundry list

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<v Speaker 2>of items that we're thinking about and crossing off and saying,

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<v Speaker 2>what can we do to ensure protection fully for this

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<v Speaker 2>end user?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Absolutely, yeah, And I know it's a delicate balance,

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<v Speaker 1>right of usability and security and all these things. You

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<v Speaker 1>have to think about so many situations and scenario the

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<v Speaker 1>fun problems though, Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's such a critical component for you know, we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about it earlier adoption. Yeah, on rap right, it has

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<v Speaker 1>to be easy where mom and dad can say, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is like using Facebook or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't even know. I think that the end goal

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<v Speaker 2>is invisibility. Yeah, if you can just if there's zero

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<v Speaker 2>knowledge that there's crypto, a wallet, any of the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that's existing. That's that's how you know we were able

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<v Speaker 2>to reach MAT's adoption. Whether or that does it on

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<v Speaker 2>its own, I think there's other things I think to

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<v Speaker 2>get there, but it's that fundamental layer of invisibility that

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<v Speaker 2>needs to exist to reach it.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, And is it you know, at this point in

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<v Speaker 1>time it has to feel a little bit like Web

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<v Speaker 1>two but have Web three function and al in the background.

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<v Speaker 1>But still we're so used to the web to interface.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the way to go at this point in time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's this I always think about, like

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<v Speaker 2>the idea that you expect that we expect as crypto

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<v Speaker 2>developers or native users. I should say that most people

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<v Speaker 2>are gonna ever write down a seed phrase or like

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<v Speaker 2>know how to to wear Like we all are operating

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<v Speaker 2>in Web three with just like this crazy security hat

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't even know that we're wearing, right, because

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of the world doesn't do that, and they

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<v Speaker 2>it's not that the like they they don't do it,

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<v Speaker 2>like they will never do that. And I think that

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<v Speaker 2>they that it's this expectation of like emulating meeting the

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<v Speaker 2>user where they already are in terms of security. And

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<v Speaker 2>I always look at personally at like some of the

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<v Speaker 2>features that Apple has launched as a north star for security,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think they're one of the people at the

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<v Speaker 2>forefront of security and user experience for small things like

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<v Speaker 2>being really the biometric scanners. Introducing face I D Pass

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<v Speaker 2>keys huge win for people out all the everywhere. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a now this MFA that's built into your phone where

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<v Speaker 2>you just scan your face and it doesn't really impact

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<v Speaker 2>your your day to day. It's also not like you're

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<v Speaker 2>not losing any security because you're not giving the developer

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<v Speaker 2>access to your face. Yes, right, So they're they're digging

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<v Speaker 2>doing the hard problem of thinking of how can we

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<v Speaker 2>make this easy because millions of people all over the

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<v Speaker 2>world are going to use this, Right. There's a laundry

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<v Speaker 2>list of examples from that to UH to hide my email.

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<v Speaker 2>Those types of behaviors that like they're they're doing the

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<v Speaker 2>job of making the most secure best UX. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's what a dynamic we really try to emulate

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<v Speaker 2>is how can we make sure that the security is

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<v Speaker 2>number one? Like it is, there's nothing else that's more

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<v Speaker 2>important than protecting users and their funds and providing that

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<v Speaker 2>UX on.

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<v Speaker 1>Top of it, and what they're doing compliments you know

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<v Speaker 1>what you're trying to build because in parallel the A

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<v Speaker 1>the hardware is being built with the software exactly use

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<v Speaker 1>your behavior.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say part of what we've been working

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<v Speaker 2>on a lot is like how can we leverage pass

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<v Speaker 2>keys in MFA because that's that's always going to protect

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<v Speaker 2>you more. Yes, whether everybody does it today has MFA

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<v Speaker 2>on their phone, like you all should encourage everyone to

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<v Speaker 2>and so incorporating features like that where you're just you're

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<v Speaker 2>immediately going to get more security the second that. So

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<v Speaker 2>you want to go sign a message that or sign

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<v Speaker 2>a transfer that's over one hundred dollars. Let's say you

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<v Speaker 2>enforce MFA and you say you have to now you

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<v Speaker 2>have to do face ID to actually be able to transact.

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<v Speaker 2>That's going to be way better for the end user

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<v Speaker 2>to provide that.

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<v Speaker 1>So on that note, hard question for you. It's twenty

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<v Speaker 1>thirty five. What does a crypto wallet look like? Is

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<v Speaker 1>it integrating all the things you're saying where advance the users,

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<v Speaker 1>the customers are educated about the technology, the phones are

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<v Speaker 1>up to par, and it's that and more.

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<v Speaker 2>I think so. I mean, I think it's back to

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<v Speaker 2>that simple word of invisibilit like it doesn't exist to

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<v Speaker 2>the end user. It is just an account that you're

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<v Speaker 2>logging into. And I think that these devices will get better.

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<v Speaker 2>I personally think biometrics will we'll get to a new

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<v Speaker 2>place as well. But it's really just how can you

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<v Speaker 2>ensure And I think it will become increasingly more important

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<v Speaker 2>with the rise of agents via AI to have these

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<v Speaker 2>biometric capabilities because you want to make sure you are

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<v Speaker 2>who you are who you say you are. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's the key thing that we'll hopefully see

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty five. I can't say I know for sure, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, what's on your roadmap? What can you share

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<v Speaker 1>that's on it for the year.

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<v Speaker 2>I think some of the areas like we've kind of

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<v Speaker 2>spoken about that we're really excited about is back to

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<v Speaker 2>this protecting of the user in terms of policies, in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of access controls. This is something that exists to

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<v Speaker 2>some degree in different financial apps and Web two. And

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<v Speaker 2>we've already done a lot to launch policy engines preventing

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<v Speaker 2>like certain addresses you can send to in those types

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<v Speaker 2>of things. There's gonna be a lot more in the

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<v Speaker 2>policy world that we're very excited about. And I'd say,

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<v Speaker 2>there's there's a bunch of things around, uh, providing more

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<v Speaker 2>access to more places. I should say, sure, but we'll

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<v Speaker 2>leave it.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll leave it at that for Yeah. I mean, eventually

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<v Speaker 1>I would hope to see the biggest brands integrate crypto

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<v Speaker 1>functionality Walletfacehan Theater.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say in the last Yeah, in the last year

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<v Speaker 2>or so, we've had conversations with some of the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>financial institution's, biggest just applications. People building in this outside

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<v Speaker 2>of crypto like traditional Web two, uh, and everybody is

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<v Speaker 2>curious how how to build in it, build in it securely,

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<v Speaker 2>and it really brings out some really fascinating use cases

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<v Speaker 2>that I don't think traditionally in crypto we've we've thought

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<v Speaker 2>about or maybe if i'd act to all we've all

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<v Speaker 2>had a pipe dream of it, but now it's becoming

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<v Speaker 2>a reality.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's exciting and I'm really really excited to see

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<v Speaker 1>the future utbates around dynamic and you know which brands

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<v Speaker 1>integrate these things, because they're going to be big on

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<v Speaker 1>rams to bring people on chain. One hundred percent awesome, Ellie,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this has been fun. Thank you so much for

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<v Speaker 2>having me.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes

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<v Speaker 1>big fan of this hardware wallet, so if you'd like

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<v Speaker 1>to learn more, visit the link in the description. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for tuning in. Please hit the like

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