WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:31.440 Welcome back to the Pathway Chili. 2 00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:33.840 I'm Robin, I'm Jules. 3 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.520 And I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. 4 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:43.920 December thirteenth, two thousand and nine, Henderson, Nevada. A security 5 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.520 camera captures thirty year old Stephen Kocher arriving in a 6 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:50.960 residential neighborhood, where he parks his car and is seen 7 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.640 walking down the sidewalk before he vanishes without a trace. 8 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.359 Earlier that day, Stephen had made one hundred and thirty 9 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.880 five mile trip to Henderson from his hometown of Saint George, Utah, 10 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:07.760 but never told anyone why. Since Stephen was struggling financially, 11 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.280 it is theorized that he might have traveled to that 12 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:13.640 area in order to seek employment or earn some money, 13 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.359 but there is no conclusive evidence of what happened to him, 14 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:19.959 and Stephen is never found. 15 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.519 After that the path went Chiley. So this week we're 16 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:26.719 going to be exploring one of the more baffling missing 17 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:29.599 persons cases of the modern era, the two thousand and 18 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.680 nine disappearance of Stephen Kocher. At the time Stephen Coacher 19 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.719 went missing, he was residing in Saint George, Utah, and 20 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.159 decided to make an unexplained trip to Henderson, Nevada, where 21 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.120 he parked his car in an affluent retirement community and 22 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.319 was captured walking away by a security camera before he 23 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.920 inexplicably seemed to vanish into thin air. What makes this 24 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.599 story even stranger is that in the days prior to 25 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:56.319 his disappearance, Stephen would make some other unexplained road trips 26 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.719 through Utah and Nevada before he returned home, and one 27 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.319 of the trips was nearly eleven hundred miles long. Since 28 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:06.920 Stevo was experiencing financial problems and had trouble securing full 29 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.159 time employment due largely to the recession which was taking 30 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:12.759 place in the United States at that time, there have 31 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:15.879 been two primary theories pushed forward to explain his actions. 32 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.800 Either Stephen was feeling depressed or suicidal over his situation 33 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:22.680 and this caused him to experience some sort of mental 34 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.360 breakdown which prompted him to disappear voluntarily or take his 35 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.840 own life. Or he became so desperate for money or 36 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:33.520 employment that Stephen was roped into doing something which compelled 37 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:36.039 him to make these lengthy trips and he wound up 38 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.360 becoming the victim of foul play. For the longest time, 39 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.439 I found myself completely perplexed by this case. But in 40 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.599 recent years, two forms of media have been produced that 41 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:49.680 revealed previously undisclosed information which seemed to shed some more 42 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.400 light on what might have happened. One of them is 43 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:55.080 a YouTuber named Aaron Stoner who has done a deep, 44 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:58.800 multi episode dive into the disappearance on his channel, and 45 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.360 the other is a long force podcast titled Eyes on Justice, 46 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.680 which came out in twenty twenty one and was produced 47 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.199 by a team of private investigators who were hired by 48 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.639 Stevens family, and they have done extensive work on this case. 49 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:14.400 I learned all this new information when I covered the 50 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:16.840 case on an episode of The Trail Went Cold nearly 51 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:19.280 three years ago, and it caused me to look at 52 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:22.080 things in a different light. In fact, there's so much 53 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.919 to talk about here that our series of episodes on 54 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.240 The Path Went Chile is going to be a three parter. 55 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.680 Well start off by sharing the primary details about this case, 56 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:34.159 which you'll find in most mainstream sources, before we discussed 57 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:36.840 these new revelations that have come out in recent years. 58 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:40.960 Okay, this is incredibly interesting. I remember when we had 59 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.560 this incredible depression going on in the United States, where 60 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:47.840 finances were up in the air, where people's retirement accounts 61 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:50.639 were completely wiped out, where stocks had crashed, And so 62 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:54.639 I remember the stress, especially that my parents were in 63 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:57.360 at the time, of scrambling to figure out how do 64 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.360 we make ends meet and how do we make up 65 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.560 in this moment what we were losing so rapidly, And 66 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:07.039 so to think about Steve and think about the idea 67 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:10.599 that perhaps he had gotten incredibly depressed. That makes sense. 68 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:15.199 You saw incredible rises in things like family annihilations, where 69 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.600 the main breadwinner would come home and kill their entire 70 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.279 family and then complete suicide to spare them of the 71 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:26.600 financial distress. You saw suicide rates go incredibly high. But 72 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:29.240 this is interesting because this is not the only trip 73 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:32.199 that Steven takes. He's starting to make these really bizarre 74 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:35.720 trips on a pretty regular basis, where he's traveling at 75 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:38.879 this day one hundred and thirty five miles, but another 76 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.639 time eleven hundred miles on these just unexplained trips. I'm 77 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.199 almost leaning towards the idea that he had gotten caught 78 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.079 up in something or there was a group of people 79 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.360 that he was involved with for some reason that he 80 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:55.879 was making these these long haul destination trips for no 81 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.040 one around him seemed to know what was going on. 82 00:04:58.079 --> 00:04:59.600 So I'm really excited to know more. 83 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:03.279 Yeah. I was first introduced to this case when I 84 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.879 saw it on an episode of Disappeared many years ago, 85 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.079 and I was initially completely perplexed by it and didn't 86 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:10.759 know what to make of it. But I will say 87 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:12.720 that some of the new information that has come out 88 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.360 within the past couple years has put some of the 89 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:18.120 pieces of the puzzle together at trying to figure out 90 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.839 what happened. But of course Stephen is still missing, and 91 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:23.879 there are still a lot of unanswered questions, so it's 92 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:25.600 still a big baffling mystery. 93 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.319 Our story begins in two thousand and nine, and our 94 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.199 central figure is thirty year old Stephen Coacher. Stephen was 95 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.759 born in Amarillo, Texas to parents Ralph and Dianne Cocher, 96 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.439 and as the second of their five children. The Coacher 97 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:43.920 family are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of 98 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:48.519 Latter day Saints aka the LDS Church, and Stephen is 99 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:53.120 very devoted to Mormonism. Following his graduation from high school, 100 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:56.839 Stephen would travel to Brazil to perform missionary work, and 101 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.959 he eventually earned a degree in communications from the Universe 102 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.920 City of Utah. By this point, the Coachers have relocated 103 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.879 to Utah, and Ralph and Dianne live in the town 104 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:11.120 of Bountiful, just outside Salt Lake City, where Ralph works 105 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:15.040 as the editor for the Davis County Clipper newspaper. Stephen 106 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:17.879 wanted to follow in his father's footsteps and publish some 107 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:21.079 freelance stories in the Clipper before he took a position 108 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:25.480 with the Salt Lake City Tribune's digital advertising division. While 109 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:28.360 Stephen liked the job itself, he did not like the 110 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.600 fact that it required him to work overnight hours, so 111 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:34.240 he wound up taking a new advertising position with the 112 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:38.959 website match bin dot com. Stephen was also not too 113 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.399 fond of the cold winter weather of Salt Lake City, 114 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:44.360 so in April of two thousand and nine, he decided 115 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.560 to move to Saint George, which was located three hundred 116 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.720 miles away in the southernmost section of Utah near the 117 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:54.160 Nevada and Arizona borders. He would rent a room at 118 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:57.360 a house which he shared with another tenant named Jordan Zirkle, 119 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:01.680 but the two roommates couldn't have had more opposite personalities. 120 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.120 While Stephen was very devoted to his church and faith, 121 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:08.199 Jordan liked to drink and smoke weed and had a 122 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:11.879 prior conviction on his record for possession of a controlled substance. 123 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.839 But while they did not become close friends, they were 124 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:19.560 still able to maintain an amicable relationship. Upon his arrival 125 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:22.800 in Saint George, Stephen became a member of the Bloomington 126 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:27.399 Hills Seventh Ward, a local singles ward. While Stephen's siblings 127 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:30.519 had gotten married and had children by this point, he 128 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:34.000 continued to remain single and once broke off a serious 129 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:36.639 relationship with a woman who did not hold the same 130 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.160 interest in the LDS church that he did. Unfortunately for Stephen, 131 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:44.120 one month after he moved to Saint George, he would 132 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.759 be laid off from his job at matchbin dot com. 133 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:49.600 Since the United States was in the midst of the 134 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:53.279 Great Recession and the job market in Saint George was scarce, 135 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.680 Stephen had trouble finding steady employment, though he did manage 136 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.160 to get a part time job handing out flyers for 137 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:04.040 a business called Travis's Window and Blind Cleaning. However, this 138 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.759 job did not provide Stephen with enough income to pay 139 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:10.399 his bills, and by the end of November Jordan Circle 140 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:12.920 had moved out of their house and he was now 141 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.360 three months and fifteen hundred dollars behind in his rent. 142 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:19.560 This that's an interesting layer to the case when you 143 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:23.120 look at his devotion to the LDS Church to not 144 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.560 be a married man at that point and to not 145 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.439 be able to, you know, live up to what's expected 146 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.759 very quickly. A lot of people in the LDS Church, 147 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:37.879 they're you know, introduced to people in hopes of a marriage. It's, 148 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.720 you know, the whole goal. You want family to be 149 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.120 the heart of who you are. And so he's thirty, 150 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:47.960 which is you see him join this local singles ward, 151 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:49.720 but I guarantee you most of the people and there 152 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:53.000 were not thirty year olds, and so I guarantee you 153 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:55.720 there's that pressure on his shoulders as well, that he 154 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:59.519 has been in relationships where quote he would have been 155 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.360 doing the right thing or he would be close to 156 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:05.360 the goal of having the family that is expected, and 157 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.279 then he calls it off. He's looking for other people 158 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:11.440 who might be interested in the same kind of things 159 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.080 in the local singles ward. But then he gets exposed 160 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.720 to this roommate who's not very much like him. And 161 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.720 eventually the roommate moves out and he's behind in his rent. 162 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.279 So he has got a lot of pressure on his shoulders, 163 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.879 losing his job, not being the ideal Mormon young man 164 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.000 that he was quote supposed to be, and then having 165 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:35.080 these financial struggles. And so when you describe that the 166 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.240 options become turned to something that'll get you money quick. 167 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:44.120 Very that's very that's very possible when you look at 168 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.480 this case. And then also when you say, well, wait, 169 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:49.639 what if he made this trip and he went to 170 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:52.720 complete suicide. But again, I think because this was not 171 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.480 the only time you saw this kind of trip, that 172 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.759 makes me less inclined to think that suicide was the 173 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:01.200 goal at the at the front. 174 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.919 Yeah, I've seen interviews with Steven's family, and they do 175 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:09.200 seem like genuinely nice people, and I think they supported 176 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.960 him no matter what, and that even though he probably 177 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:14.240 felt he did not live up to their expectations because 178 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.799 he was still single, he couldn't find steady employment, I 179 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:19.919 think he might have felt like a failure in their eyes, 180 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.519 even though they loved him no matter what. And I 181 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.440 think that would shed a lot of light on many 182 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.039 of his decisions, Like you said, either he traveled to 183 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.639 a far away location because he thought suicide was the 184 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.600 only option, or it became so desperate that he could 185 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:35.600 have been roped into doing something that he ordinarily wouldn't 186 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.919 have done just for the chance to earn money or 187 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:38.799 steady employment. 188 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:42.320 I remember when I first watched this, I too, watched 189 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:45.120 this on Disappeared for the first time, and there's just 190 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:49.039 something about it that just is so so sad, because, 191 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:52.159 like you said, Steven's family they seemed to be very successful, 192 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.000 and they were living their lives in a certain manner. 193 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.720 They were getting married, and they all seem to have jobs. 194 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.559 And then poor Steven, just the timing of everything just 195 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:04.639 didn't seem to align for him, and he wasn't able 196 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.639 to keep the employment, and he was too proud to 197 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.480 ask his family for help. So he's stuck in this 198 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:14.519 situation where Jordan moves out and now he doesn't have 199 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:17.240 a roommate and all the rent is on his shoulders. 200 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.320 I can't imagine how he felt. It would have opened 201 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.200 him up to the possibility that if somebody had some 202 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.440 kind of illegal work that would have been cash in 203 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:29.960 hand quickly, then potentially he would have taken it because 204 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.840 I'm sure a lot of people in that time period 205 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.279 when they needed work would be open to doing things 206 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:39.320 that they wouldn't normally do just because they needed the money. 207 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.799 Yes. In spite of his financial difficulty, Stephen was reluctant 208 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.440 to accept assistance from his family, as a check was 209 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.919 sent to him by his grandmother which was never cashed. 210 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.120 On December ninth, Rolf Kosher received a phone call from 211 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.639 Brett Bishop, who was Stephen's landlord. Bishop said that he 212 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:57.519 had been unable to get a hold of Stephen and 213 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.960 was calling Rolph because he was listed as a reference 214 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.159 on his rental agreement. Bischof let Rolf know that Stephen 215 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:06.000 was way behind with paying his rent, which prompted Rolf 216 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:07.639 to call him on a cell phone while he was 217 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.840 out grocery shopping. Rolf told his son that he was 218 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.919 willing to offer financial support, but Stephen seemed defended by 219 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:17.919 the suggestion and abruptly hung up. The following day, Steven 220 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:20.720 sent his father a text which read quote, Hi Dad, 221 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.600 I'm okay. At six fifty six pm Mountain time, Stephen 222 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.000 received a call on a cell phone from his mother, Dianne, 223 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.159 and told her that he was planning to come home 224 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:32.120 to visit their family and Bountiful for Christmas and would 225 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:35.519 likely be arriving on December the twenty third. To assist 226 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.799 him with his financial issues, Diane also transferred some money 227 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:41.039 to her son's bank account, but it was never touched. 228 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.720 That same day, Stephen also received a phone call from 229 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.960 his sister, and both she and Dianne would describe Stephen 230 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.720 as sounding like he was in an upbeat mood, but 231 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.000 at the time they were both completely unaware that Stephen 232 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.559 had taken both calls in the midst of a lengthy 233 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:59.759 road trip. Before we start talking about this trip, I 234 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:02.200 just just wanted to clarify that the locations will be 235 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:06.039 discussing in Utah our mountain time, and locations in Nevada 236 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.360 our Pacific time, so we'll try to differentiate between them. 237 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.080 Oh, this is so sad. So the family's aware that 238 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.399 he's struggling, in fact, they're trying to help him. I honestly, 239 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.440 you know, my late husband's family is LDS and they're 240 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.240 phenomenal human beings, and the church as a whole really 241 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.080 does take care of the people that are in their 242 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.440 wards and in their church, and so I can only 243 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.639 imagine the way this family operated. They're saying, hey, son, 244 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.080 you're struggling, it's okay, Hey Grandma sent you a check. Hey, 245 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.960 Dad just wants to make sure you're okay. Mom's checking 246 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.840 in with him, and he's sounding upbeat and excited, and 247 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.679 he's even making plans that he's going to be home 248 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:51.799 for Christmas. And so to detail those kinds of plans, 249 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.919 if you knew that you were going to complete suicide, 250 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.360 I wonder if you would continue to play along with 251 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.639 those or if maybe his mind would change at some 252 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.480 point after he had confirmed those plans. But when you 253 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:08.840 see people who have a purpose and they have people 254 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.759 who care about them and who plan and expect them 255 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:14.320 to be home, that's always a good sign. When you're 256 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.240 talking about, hey, where's his mental health? That he's communicating, 257 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:21.000 he's making plans, he's seeming like he's upbeat with his family. 258 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.000 Now again, people who are having mental health crises often 259 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.639 can hide those things. But right now, you know, from 260 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:30.840 this phone call, the family seems to think we have issues. 261 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.799 He's struggling, but not to a point where we were 262 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.080 concerned to this extent right that he was going to 263 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:38.159 go missing or that something would have happened to him. 264 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.720 Yeah, And I've always used that as the biggest argument 265 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.480 against the idea of suicide. It just seems kind of 266 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:47.600 cruel to tell your family I'm going to be home 267 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.879 for Christmas when you already know you're going to end 268 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.679 your own life. And as we're going to talk about momentarily, 269 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:54.960 he would later buy a couple of Christmas gifts for 270 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.799 his brother and his nephew, and it just seems like 271 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:59.519 he would have no reason to do that if he 272 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:01.840 knew he is never going to see them at Christmas. 273 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:05.559 So I do think that possibly the reason he sounded 274 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.320 upbeat is because he may have been making this road 275 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.600 trip for other reasons that he felt we're going to 276 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:12.919 solve his problems, which is why he was in a 277 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.679 much better mood. But I don't think anyone expected that 278 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:17.519 within a few days he would go missing. 279 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.840 Just an idea to play devil's advocate. And I'm not 280 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:24.960 saying that this is true because I'm more inclined to 281 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:29.679 think what you just said is correct, Robin. But people sometimes, 282 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.639 and it's been studied that they can be in a 283 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.120 really bad mood, they can be doing horribly, but once 284 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.240 they make that decision to end their life. It can 285 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:42.440 completely turn around their moods and they can seem really 286 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:47.679 upbeat and more relaxed and happier. So I don't think 287 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.120 it cancels out that possibility. I think it's not very probable. 288 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.720 And also, like we discussed before, the literature supports that 289 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:58.919 people make that decision typically in a very short period 290 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:04.039 of time, based on those people who've survived attempts. So 291 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.080 to think that like somebody has to plan it way 292 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:09.240 in advance, that doesn't seem to be true according to 293 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:12.639 the studies. So it could be a situation where there 294 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.159 was maybe the intention to do that, but then that 295 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:20.080 intention changed in a split second. But again it's just 296 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.799 to play devil's advocate. I don't think that, But I 297 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.960 just think that there's always that possibility. 298 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:27.519 Oh, very true. And I think you can have, you know, 299 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.960 suicidal ideations or have that depression that feels like would 300 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:34.320 I be better off if I wasn't here, and that 301 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.879 can quickly change into action plans when you know, you 302 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.039 think you're fine, and then all of a sudden, a 303 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:45.039 plan can come, like you said, in minutes, So definitely possible. 304 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.320 And like you said, what if he's what if he's saying, oh, 305 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.399 I'm at peace. You know, I don't want my family 306 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.600 to worry, and so I'll tell them this upbeat story. 307 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:58.440 But then again, like Robin said, my gut wants to 308 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.200 think he's on this mission because he's excited. I'm going 309 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:03.720 to get to go home for Christmas and I'm going 310 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:05.400 to get to tell my family that some of these 311 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.119 issues are resolved. And maybe he was doing something a 312 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.400 little nefarious that gets him into trouble, but he thinks, hey, 313 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.440 I have a solution. Remember, there are not. In that time, 314 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.240 it was a really really difficult time financially in the 315 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:23.119 United States. This is people are getting laid off and droves. 316 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.480 People's accounts are just completely wiped out. People's you know, 317 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:30.559 resources are completely dried up. People aren't hiring, and so 318 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.519 it was a really desperate time for a lot of people. 319 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:36.079 And so I could see someone who would normally not 320 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.799 be inclined to do something that's you know, illegal or shady, 321 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:41.799 to say, hey, it's so it's a way to make 322 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:43.079 a buck right now, and I'm desperate. 323 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.400 At some point on the evening of December ninth or 324 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.119 the early morning hours of December tenth, Stephen left Saint 325 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.440 George in his white two thousand and three Chevrolet Cavalier, 326 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.279 and debit card records would later show that he traveled 327 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.759 three hundred miles to Salt Lake City and purchased gas 328 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:05.720 there at six forty five am Mountain time. He soon 329 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.240 crossed the state line into Nevada and proceeded to purchase 330 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.279 gas in the town of West Wendover one hundred and 331 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:16.200 twenty five miles away. After that, Stephen traveled another one 332 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:20.720 hundred and fifteen miles to the unincorporated community of Ruby Valley, 333 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:24.599 where at eleven am Pacific time, he stopped at a 334 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.440 ranch owned by a couple named John and Cathy Nef. 335 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.920 Years earlier, when Stephen was a member of Salt Lake 336 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.680 City's LDS Singles Ward, he became acquainted with their daughter, 337 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.200 Anne Marie Nef, and while they dated for a brief period, 338 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.440 they never developed a serious relationship. Stephen wanted to see 339 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.680 Anne Marie, and even though she was not there at 340 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:47.759 the time, her parents still invited him inside for lunch. 341 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.839 During their conversation, Stephen mentioned that he was planning to 342 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.920 visit friends or family members in Sacramento, California, but he 343 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.960 wasn't sure if he would continue in that direction because 344 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.680 of the bad weather. This remark would later strike Stephen's 345 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:05.400 loved ones as odd because, as far as they knew, 346 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:09.880 Stephen did not know anyone in Sacramento. After leaving the ranch, 347 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.960 Stephen headed back into Utah and deba transaction showed that 348 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.160 he purchased food at a convenience store in Salt Lake City, 349 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:22.359 fuel in Springville, in food in Nephi. During the afternoon 350 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.000 and early evenings, Stephen received the aforementioned phone calls on 351 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.960 his cell phone from his sister and mother, but never 352 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.519 mentioned that he was driving through the state at that time. 353 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.079 By the time he arrived back in Saint George, Stephen 354 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.880 had driven nearly one thousand miles. 355 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.839 And this is a different trip than the one hundred 356 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:44.440 and thirty five miles that he traveled before his disappearance. 357 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:48.640 Yes, like this is a couple days beforehand, Like, he 358 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:51.440 hasn't even made the trip to Henderson, so he's making 359 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.759 this unexplained road trip which no one has been able 360 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:57.680 to figure out to this day, and people have wondered, like, 361 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:00.920 what connection did this have to his trip to Henderson 362 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.799 A couple days later? It only adds an extra level 363 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:05.200 intrigue to this whole mystery. 364 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.000 Yeah, and it's really interesting because remember, this is a 365 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.359 gentleman who's behind fifteen hundred dollars on his rent. He's 366 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.079 making a thousand mile road trip. That's a lot of 367 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:18.279 gas and food and needs that you're on the road. 368 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.559 Is he staying over night in hotels or motels? And 369 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.680 so this is not a cheap thing to do to 370 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:27.000 hop in your car and to travel for hours and 371 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.160 hours and to make a trip like that. 372 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.799 And it's always been to explain why he suddenly decided 373 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:35.039 to see John and Kathy Neff, the parents of a 374 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.519 girl he had not dated in a long time. I mean, 375 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.720 it seems very unlikely that he would decide to like 376 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.160 just travel to this location and maybe rekindle the relationship. 377 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.559 And if he wanted to do that, why would he 378 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.359 call first to say he was coming. So it's always 379 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.000 been a big question. Did he go there for the 380 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.519 express purpose of seeing them, or did he go to 381 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:55.920 the area for another reason and then just decided to 382 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.880 visit them because he happened to be there. 383 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.559 And did they allude to anything else other than that 384 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:01.720 trip to California? 385 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.480 Not really, No, he didn't provide any explanation for why 386 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:07.200 he was in the area, and the only reason we 387 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.160 know where he was is because of his debit transaction 388 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:13.519 showing him purchasing food and getting fuel, But we just 389 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:18.640 don't know why he was at these specific locations. So 390 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:21.440 on December the eleventh, Stephen spent the day handing out 391 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.359 some more flyers for the window washing business, and he 392 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.720 also had a meeting with the Bishop of the Bloomington 393 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.480 Hills seventh Ward, who promised that he would help him 394 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.640 find a job by the new year, and would later 395 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.359 say that Steven seemed to be in a positive mood. 396 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.720 On December the twelfth, Stephen left Saint George on another 397 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.119 unexplained road trip to Nevada, and at eight nineteen am 398 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.839 Pacific time, his cell phone would ping off a tower 399 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.400 near Overton, about eighty miles away. Nearly eight hours later, 400 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.759 Stephen used his debit card to purchase gas and Mesquite, Nevada, 401 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.160