Speaker 1: Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
Speaker 1: I've been on for most of my life. Ever since
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I've heard tales of Bigfoot and
Speaker 1: wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
Speaker 1: As I grew older and read more about the paranormal,
Speaker 1: my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm so excited to share with you what
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Speaker 1: than just a podcast network. It's a community that allows
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Speaker 2: Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going
Speaker 2: on here. Something just kid with my dog, something to
Speaker 2: kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through there over
Speaker 2: the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, damn,
Speaker 2: I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
Speaker 2: over the fence and name was dead once you hit
Speaker 2: the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
Speaker 2: was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what are
Speaker 2: you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
Speaker 2: out here? Did you see what it was? It was
Speaker 2: enough out here looking. I'm new to the window now and
Speaker 2: I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside. Hello,
Speaker 2: hit the fuddy out here? What quin I'm out there?
Speaker 2: I thought of a bit of about sixty nine. I
Speaker 2: don't know easy out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm walking right a heady our focus will Welcome
Speaker 1: O guest to the show. It is been it from
Speaker 1: the Broadcasting Seeds podcast. Welcome to the show man.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this man. We met up
Speaker 1: in Gatlin Burger. You stopped by the booth and we
Speaker 1: had a great conversation. I've always looking forward to having
Speaker 1: people on that I've actually met in person. We do
Speaker 1: all of this stuff over the internet, so it's always
Speaker 1: cool to meet people and shake people's hand in person
Speaker 1: and then have them on the show. You have a
Speaker 1: better rapport. I think, let's talk about this bigfoot thing.
Speaker 1: What in the world got you interested in the subject
Speaker 1: to begin with?
Speaker 3: From childhood, I've always been attracted to whether it started
Speaker 3: with mythology. I'm old enough that we didn't have the internet.
Speaker 3: It's a library kid, right, I was always that kid.
Speaker 3: I would go into the libraries my big thing really
Speaker 3: when I was young. I remember, as eight or nine
Speaker 3: years old, being enthralled with locked ness. Those gateways. They
Speaker 3: just always open up to Bigfoot, right, that's the rock
Speaker 3: star of the high strange in this genre. Really early
Speaker 3: I remember getting my hands on everything that I could find,
Speaker 3: but there wasn't that much, not back in those days.
Speaker 3: There was a couple of books I remember watching. I
Speaker 3: can't remember the name of the show, but it was
Speaker 3: Leonard Nimoy. I remember he hosted it, and I remember
Speaker 3: they had a thing on that My dad was a
Speaker 3: shortwave radio guy and he would listen to Coast to
Speaker 3: Coast AM. I remember like sneaking up so I could
Speaker 3: hear that really early in the morning, listening to Coast
Speaker 3: to Coast a m and at that time it was
Speaker 3: ar Bell and he had the occasional Bigfoot guy on.
Speaker 3: That's really what my gateway was into the whole Bigfoot
Speaker 3: Sasquatch world.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing for me.
Speaker 1: NeSSI was my first cryptid love, like the gateway drug
Speaker 1: of cryptids got me interested in Bigfoot. I had an experience,
Speaker 1: like when I was twelve years old with one of
Speaker 1: these things out in the woods while I was hunting,
Speaker 1: and I was hooked. From then on, I had to
Speaker 1: let it go for a while because I did a
Speaker 1: stint as a cop. I've said it before many times,
Speaker 1: you just don't talk about that kind of stuff because
Speaker 1: people look at you like you got three heads. I
Speaker 1: just suppressed it until I left that in twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: and I was able to dive back into the love
Speaker 1: for cryptids and the love for Bigfoot, and then I've
Speaker 1: had experiences since then that have just kept me going
Speaker 1: and talking to at this point, probably a thousand or
Speaker 1: more people interviewing them for the show and talking to
Speaker 1: people at conferences. It's really my passion and love. But
Speaker 1: we're not here to talk about me. We're here to
Speaker 1: talk about you and your experiences. I know you're here
Speaker 1: to talk about some encounters and experiences you've had. Why
Speaker 1: don't you take us back to where you were, what
Speaker 1: you were doing, and tell.
Speaker 4: Us what happened to you.
Speaker 3: Again, that's kind of piggyback sound exactly what I was saying.
Speaker 3: I was a Boy Scout. Also have a similar background
Speaker 3: to you, in essence that I was in the military.
Speaker 3: Then I got out of the military. I was a
Speaker 3: police officer for a while, and I spent my time
Speaker 3: in corporate security or contracting for years until I just
Speaker 3: got to a point where I couldn't carry a gun anymore.
Speaker 3: I just couldn't do it. I didn't want to do
Speaker 3: it anymore. These aren't places that you talk about this stuff.
Speaker 3: I suppressed it for years. I toiled the occasional person.
Speaker 3: But the first encounter, and I've had multiples, the first
Speaker 3: encounter that I had I was eleven, so it was
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five. I was a boy in the Boy
Speaker 3: Scouts in Illinois. There was this camp ground called I
Speaker 3: think it was Camp Heffernan, which doesn't exist anymore in
Speaker 3: McLean County, Illinois. I think it's on Bloomington Lake, is
Speaker 3: what it's called. We were camping, and it was probably
Speaker 3: in the fall, because we didn't do stuff in summer
Speaker 3: really because it's just so hot. But it was in
Speaker 3: the fall. The leaves had started to fall. It was
Speaker 3: in the evening sun was starting to go down. The
Speaker 3: glory of this campground is that it was like one
Speaker 3: hundred and something out of acres and we just had
Speaker 3: free reign of the whole campground. So we would break
Speaker 3: into squads and we got to choose where we wanted
Speaker 3: to camp. We always chose this. I guess you would
Speaker 3: call it a pine forest, just because it was soft
Speaker 3: and they're this matt bed of pine needles. So it
Speaker 3: was real comfortable to sleep in. But it was a
Speaker 3: good half a mile from the main cabin where the
Speaker 3: Scout leaders would stay and we would eat. We were
Speaker 3: running a little late for dinner. One night, we decided
Speaker 3: we were going to take a shortcut little boys always do,
Speaker 3: because Heaven forbid we actually take the right way around.
Speaker 3: We have to find the shortcuts. Right there was these
Speaker 3: hedges and I say hedgerows. If you think of World
Speaker 3: War two in France, there was all these hedgerows. So
Speaker 3: it was like a ten foot row of bushes basically
Speaker 3: that you could slide up underneath, or we could at
Speaker 3: ages ten through eleven where you could slide underneath, and
Speaker 3: we didn't have to go all the way around, because
Speaker 3: all the way around meant an extra fifty feet. Probably
Speaker 3: on the other side of this hedgerow there was a
Speaker 3: little bit of woods and then an open field which
Speaker 3: was like a parade ground there, and then on the
Speaker 3: other side of that was all the cabins. Port of
Speaker 3: this parade field is important, but I'll end this story
Speaker 3: with that. And there's a little drainage ditch right before
Speaker 3: you get to this hedge, and it had rained the
Speaker 3: night before, so there was a little bit of water
Speaker 3: running through there. Nothing that we couldn't jump over and
Speaker 3: then dive under the bushes. That little stream is probably
Speaker 3: twelve to fifteen feet off of those bushes, so we're running.
Speaker 3: I was the first one and I jumped the stream, landed,
Speaker 3: and the first thing that hit me was this obnoxious smell.
Speaker 3: Everyone's heard this a million times, the wet dog e
Speaker 3: Coom swamp nasty smell. Just shit to me in the
Speaker 3: face like a wall. Right, one of the other kids
Speaker 3: that's behind me, he jumps across and to hear him
Speaker 3: go ooh, what's that smell. As soon as he said that,
Speaker 3: it's like the hedgerow erupted. It just started shaking. It
Speaker 3: was terrifying. I guess the best way to describe it
Speaker 3: as like it exploded. Because we were running into the
Speaker 3: setting sun, you could see whatever it was, and you
Speaker 3: could see the find shoulders and head. Now keep in mind,
Speaker 3: this headerow is about ten feet tall. This thing's got
Speaker 3: its hands pulling it apart. Now at this point you
Speaker 3: could look up and just see like the head and
Speaker 3: like the traps, probably about eight eight and a half feet.
Speaker 3: It was just monstrous, and they let out this god
Speaker 3: awful roar, scream, roar. It was almost like it was
Speaker 3: on multiple levels, like different factaves, and you could feel
Speaker 3: it as much as you could hear it. We were
Speaker 3: all frozen. Didn't even wait for it to stop yelling.
Speaker 3: I looked to my right and the other two boys
Speaker 3: are hauling butt down the hedgerowe. I just follow them.
Speaker 3: I've never run so fast in my life across that field.
Speaker 3: I was just afraid that this thing was going to
Speaker 3: come after us. I kept looking back, but it never did.
Speaker 3: It didn't chase us or anything. We got to the cabin,
Speaker 3: people were like, what just happened to you? I told them,
Speaker 3: and one of the other kids was like, yeah. The
Speaker 3: third kid, who was the youngest, he was out of it.
Speaker 3: His parents had to come pick him up because he
Speaker 3: just couldn't handle it. And I don't know how or
Speaker 3: why in my brain, I was scared, of course, but
Speaker 3: it didn't feel like it was a threat because I
Speaker 3: went later that night and slept over beyond that again.
Speaker 3: But for some reason, I was scared of the instance
Speaker 3: at the time, but I was not brightened afterwards. Now
Speaker 3: I look back and I get a little bit of
Speaker 3: pangs retelling the story because it was so I would
Speaker 3: say traumatic, but that's not the right word, at least
Speaker 3: not for me. Now for the other kids, I would
Speaker 3: say it was traumatic. The other kid, I never saw
Speaker 3: him again. We were friendly with each other, but I
Speaker 3: saw him one out of their time. We acknowledged that
Speaker 3: had happened, but he didn't want to talk about it,
Speaker 3: and then two years later he passed away. I had
Speaker 3: alluded earlier to this giant field. This is a kid's remembrance,
Speaker 3: and I can't get any verification of this. I've looked online.
Speaker 3: I've dug and dug, and I've tried to find people
Speaker 3: that I was with at that camp. The scoutmasters passed away.
Speaker 3: I can't find his son, who was the assistant scout master.
Speaker 3: I know it's not there now, but at at that time,
Speaker 3: there was like a statue, but it wasn't a statue.
Speaker 3: It was a log, like a giant log that was
Speaker 3: cut out like a chair. I can't even tell you
Speaker 3: how big around it was. It was giant like. We
Speaker 3: couldn't move it no way they needed, like giant machinery.
Speaker 3: Was sitting in the middle of this field. And I'm
Speaker 3: telling you that I had a plaque on it that
Speaker 3: was alluding to the fact that there was a sasquatch
Speaker 3: or bigfoot type creature that Native Americans used to talk about,
Speaker 3: and that they would actually give them a young girl
Speaker 3: once a year. A plaque was on that stump. I
Speaker 3: don't know if I made that up to be honest,
Speaker 3: it's a weird thing for me to just make up.
Speaker 3: But I can tell you that stump is not there anymore.
Speaker 3: You can look at satellite footage of it and it's
Speaker 3: just not there. So I don't know if I imagine that,
Speaker 3: but I thought it was interesting. Lower with the area,
Speaker 3: there really is no lore that I can find, and
Speaker 3: I'm a pretty decent researcher, and I can't find it.
Speaker 3: I put that with the preface that it might be
Speaker 3: my brain, but I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Before we move into your other experiences, I want to
Speaker 1: bring up a couple of things here that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: First and foremost is the smell. It's always interesting to
Speaker 1: me when I hear people talk about the smell, because
Speaker 1: that's something that the legend of Boggi Creek obviously made
Speaker 1: very famous or infamous, dependence on which way you look
Speaker 1: at it, back in the early seventies. But it's honestly,
Speaker 1: and probably i'd say maybe twenty five to thirty percent
Speaker 1: of the encounters or experiences that I've documented, so it's
Speaker 1: not a very common thing. If seventy five percent of
Speaker 1: the people have experiences with these creatures and don't smell anything.
Speaker 1: I think I've been pretty close to these things four times,
Speaker 1: maybe six or eight times total in my life, and
Speaker 1: I've never smelled anything that was weird or out of
Speaker 1: the ordinary, except for a couple of times here on
Speaker 1: the property, I've smelled what smells like like a wet horse,
Speaker 1: kind of musky smell.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1: That's really weird because there's no horses within at least a.
Speaker 4: Couple miles of us.
Speaker 1: Could it have carried on the wind through the valleys
Speaker 1: and over the hills and into the area where I
Speaker 1: happen to be walking on our property.
Speaker 4: That's possible. But outside of that.
Speaker 1: I've never experienced anything, and I was ten feet away
Speaker 1: from one of these things last summer. The smell is
Speaker 1: always something that's fascinated me about these creatures. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you this before we move on, because this is
Speaker 1: really the only question that I've gotten to a point
Speaker 1: where I ask people who experienced that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course it's subjective, we don't know.
Speaker 1: But do you think that is something that is environmental
Speaker 1: or do you think it's something that they have the
Speaker 1: ability to use as a defense mechanism. Some people have
Speaker 1: postulated that they may have this gland under their arms,
Speaker 1: very similar to great apes and other primates. Given what
Speaker 1: you know now and the research that you've done in
Speaker 1: your other experiences. Do you think that's something that is
Speaker 1: environmental with these creatures or do you think it could
Speaker 1: be something that they use as intimidation or maybe even
Speaker 1: some sort of a display.
Speaker 3: I think it might be a combination of both. And
Speaker 3: part of that I think is geographical. I would think
Speaker 3: that especially down south, like way downs up like Skunk
Speaker 3: Cape territory like Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi. Being in the military,
Speaker 3: I've marched through many a swamp and you smell like
Speaker 3: that when you come out of it. That bacteria turnover,
Speaker 3: and that's very similar to the smell we're talking about,
Speaker 3: like sewage mixed with dog or something like that. I've
Speaker 3: had two experiences where I smelled that smell, and I've
Speaker 3: had two where I didn't. The two that I did,
Speaker 3: I could see how it would be, like the way
Speaker 3: it's skunk. He has it as a defense mechanism. Because
Speaker 3: we happened upon this, I think it was just the
Speaker 3: way that it reacted both times we happened upon it.
Speaker 3: They were just as scared or shocked to see us
Speaker 3: as we were shocked to see it. In my opinion, and.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Sasquatch out to see We'll be
Speaker 1: right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: That could be true, that could not. Now the other
Speaker 3: two incidents, they were in control of all of it,
Speaker 3: and those two situations were more on a woo the scale,
Speaker 3: where the first two were totally out in the woods
Speaker 3: in the middle of nowhere. The second one was the
Speaker 3: first one was there at the camp. So I have
Speaker 3: a feeling, and I've postulated that as well, is that
Speaker 3: maybe it is a defense mechanism. I think it's just
Speaker 3: as good a theory as any.
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 1: Let's go into your next experience with these things.
Speaker 3: This song, I've actually been asked not to go too
Speaker 3: deeply into it, so it's going to be really quick.
Speaker 3: It's when I was active duty military. I've told it
Speaker 3: on another show and I got phone call, not from
Speaker 3: some shadowy CIA or anything like that, but some guys
Speaker 3: that I was with that were like, could you not,
Speaker 3: So just to say it was identical almost to the
Speaker 3: first one, except for we were in Alaska. It was
Speaker 3: me and five other Marines. We were basically ran into
Speaker 3: a Sasquatch. We weren't crawling under a hedgerow or anything,
Speaker 3: but we were patrolling through a National forest in Alaska,
Speaker 3: came across the smell roar, shaking the trees, could see
Speaker 3: the outline perfectly. It was me and another guy, and
Speaker 3: the third guy ran up when that happened. That's the
Speaker 3: sanitized version, gotcha.
Speaker 1: One of the things that fascinates me about Alaska is
Speaker 1: there tends to be, at least in my experience, in
Speaker 1: the tons of story that come out of there. Fred
Speaker 1: from Subarctic Alaska, Sasquatch. Fred's been on the show. I
Speaker 1: use some of his stories to give them a different
Speaker 1: and broader audience. I usually put out one of Fred's
Speaker 1: episodes every Sunday for the audience here on Sasquatch Odyssey,
Speaker 1: and by and large, those experiences and encounters that he relays,
Speaker 1: including his own, tend to be very aggressive.
Speaker 3: Yes, I would agree.
Speaker 1: These things are throwing things at people, They're trying to
Speaker 1: bust into and sometimes busting into cabins. They're picking things up,
Speaker 1: generators and tearing things up. I don't know what to
Speaker 1: make of that, because I think one of two things
Speaker 1: is going on here. Either some people are making up
Speaker 1: these stories whole cloth just to be sensational with it,
Speaker 1: or the flip side of that is, maybe these things
Speaker 1: are happening in other areas and we're just not hearing
Speaker 1: these stories for whatever reason. I don't know if it
Speaker 1: has something to do with that the First Nations or
Speaker 1: Native people's approach to the subject, they don't tend to
Speaker 1: share those with a lot of people outside of their
Speaker 1: villages or outside of their areas. Fred has this interesting
Speaker 1: way of pulling those stories out of people because he
Speaker 1: is part of the First Nations. Yeah, so I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's something that's going on. Have you had
Speaker 1: that same experience. Are you familiar with some of these
Speaker 1: aggressive encounters that are happening in Alaska and do you
Speaker 1: think that's something that's maybe happening in other areas and
Speaker 1: we're just not hearing about it.
Speaker 3: The weird part about that encounter is we were we
Speaker 3: were carrying, we had full combat load at that time
Speaker 3: because of what we were doing there. We had an
Speaker 3: encounter with a moose earlier that day, so we were
Speaker 3: triggered anyway, because moose man when they get angry, they're terrifying.
Speaker 3: They are terrifying a giant, they're just so big. But
Speaker 3: this thing, the only way that I can describe it
Speaker 3: is the air just changed. I actually just chills thinking
Speaker 3: about it. It was angry, and you could tell this
Speaker 3: sasquatch was bigger than the one that I had encountered
Speaker 3: seven years frier. The reason I know that is because
Speaker 3: number one, I was bigger. Everything seemed so big when
Speaker 3: you're little, right, I was a grown man at this point.
Speaker 3: It had to have been nine feet tall, but it
Speaker 3: was so wide. It was just massive, and when it
Speaker 3: ran away, you could actually the first few footfalls you
Speaker 3: could feel just as much as you could hear them,
Speaker 3: and it went through the force like a freight train. Literally.
Speaker 3: I don't have the pictures anymore. This is one of
Speaker 3: my biggest regrets. Took pictures of the path that a
Speaker 3: tourists getting out of there. Three four inch saplings just snapped,
Speaker 3: just like you. Hear other stories about that too. That
Speaker 3: one was scarier, But I never got the inkling to
Speaker 3: pull the sugar. I don't know why. I think I
Speaker 3: was just so shocked. We had heard other stories from
Speaker 3: that area where allegedly some folks had gotten I wouldn't
Speaker 3: say attacked, but there was like some serious bluff charging
Speaker 3: type incidents going on in the area where we were operating.
Speaker 3: I could tell you what that was offline, I just
Speaker 3: can't tell you what it is on the air. So yes,
Speaker 3: the answer to your question is yes, I've heard that
Speaker 3: they're just more aggressive up there, and I don't know
Speaker 3: if it's because there's less people maybe, who knows. There's
Speaker 3: all kinds of theories. I got out of the military,
Speaker 3: got in the law enforcement. Frankly, I didn't want anything
Speaker 3: to do with the woods for years and years. I
Speaker 3: think it was a combination of I did that enough
Speaker 3: when I was in the military. We also, I think
Speaker 3: maybe now that I look back hindsight's twenty twenty, I
Speaker 3: look back in my mind and I go, I don't
Speaker 3: want to run into one of these out there and
Speaker 3: again because no, no thanks. So I just kept having
Speaker 3: this urge. Later, once I got out of the security
Speaker 3: and law enforcement, realm to get back into the woods
Speaker 3: because I also find the woods very therapeutic. I have
Speaker 3: a rooftop tent now. Just popping my tent, building the
Speaker 3: fire and sitting there, that's enough for me. I don't
Speaker 3: have to walk through the woods. I just I need
Speaker 3: to be surrounded. It's the reason I like national forests,
Speaker 3: because you can go in and find a disperse campsite
Speaker 3: and just the park and you're done. There's not a
Speaker 3: lot of rules. You don't to pay, you don't have
Speaker 3: to do all these things. So I was like, you
Speaker 3: know what, though, I need to find a hobby. This
Speaker 3: is how my thought process was. I followed the BFRORO
Speaker 3: for a while. Everyone has their opinion about BFRORO, but
Speaker 3: it is what it is. They were the only ones
Speaker 3: at the time that I knew of, at least In
Speaker 3: the fall of twenty twenty too, COVID had gone down
Speaker 3: and I needed to get back out in the woods,
Speaker 3: so I signed up for an ex edition in the
Speaker 3: Allegheny National Forest. Turned out that place is crazy. It's
Speaker 3: a wild place. I went and met up with a
Speaker 3: whole bunch of folks, some really good folks that I'm
Speaker 3: still friends with and do some research stuff with to
Speaker 3: this day. A whole wap in three years later, but
Speaker 3: feels like it's been a decade just because so much stuff.
Speaker 3: So on that trip, we'd actually found some signs, deteriorated footprints,
Speaker 3: maybe kind of thing belong with that. We found huge
Speaker 3: not like huge, oh my gosh, it's a dog man,
Speaker 3: but very large K nine tracks and amongst these other tracks,
Speaker 3: so that peaked our interests as well. We went out
Speaker 3: and did some investigations and stuff at night and we
Speaker 3: did the knocking and the whooping. And I had never
Speaker 3: done any of this stuff, so I was like, Okay.
Speaker 3: The first night it was nothing. Second night we had
Speaker 3: some maybe that was a callback right. Then the third
Speaker 3: morning we went down this one road and that there
Speaker 3: was a really good track and it was about a
Speaker 3: sixteen inch track. There was two of them. I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, we literally had been there yesterday and
Speaker 3: that was not there.
Speaker 2: Then.
Speaker 3: I'm also in the back of my head maybe somebody
Speaker 3: put it there. So one did this, but it had
Speaker 3: the mid tarsl break and everything. It was pretty feller track.
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, this is gonna be fun. I
Speaker 3: have very good spidy senses. We were at the campsite.
Speaker 3: It's a big campsite too, so there's a road that
Speaker 3: goes through it, but it's an old road. It's an
Speaker 3: old oil and gas road, but nobody can drive on
Speaker 3: it now. But beyond that there's about ten meters of
Speaker 3: woods and then there's like a cliff that goes up
Speaker 3: and there's actually a restricted area up on that clip
Speaker 3: on that hill. It's totally fenced off, allegedly at the
Speaker 3: hunting lease or something like that, but I'm not positive
Speaker 3: what it is, but I can tell you they have
Speaker 3: raiak cams and stuff there and it do not enter everywhere,
Speaker 3: but from that ridge. I'm like, something is up there
Speaker 3: watching us. All day long, I felt this. I videoed
Speaker 3: up there all day. Nothing ended up coming out of it.
Speaker 3: But that night we're at the fire and a couple
Speaker 3: people had left because there was a storm coming in,
Speaker 3: and there was like four or five of us left,
Speaker 3: and we were just gonna ride it out, have a fire,
Speaker 3: see if we could get something to come to us,
Speaker 3: and we did so. One of the guys does a
Speaker 3: really good sasquash call, and he walked out to the
Speaker 3: edge of that tree line. And of course you don't think, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm going to record this. For some reason just didn't
Speaker 3: run into my head, but he did his right up
Speaker 3: to where I was like, do it right there. As
Speaker 3: soon as he did it right back at us, so loud,
Speaker 3: so powerful, just the loudest was a whoop. It reminded
Speaker 3: me of the other roars that I had heard from
Speaker 3: when I was younger, and again you could hear it,
Speaker 3: and it ended with this like whoop at the end,
Speaker 3: and it sounded just like an ape literally like a
Speaker 3: gibbon or a pull or monkey, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And we were all like, what just happened? Yeah, that
Speaker 3: was intense. If you backtrack a few hours before that,
Speaker 3: and I didn't hear this, but the guys that were
Speaker 3: at the camp one of the guys was a new
Speaker 3: guy and one of them was a more seasoned guy.
Speaker 3: They had heard from the area that we're talking about
Speaker 3: up in that court owner of the campsite, they had
Speaker 3: heard samurai chatter. That's basically what got me hooked again
Speaker 3: from that point on. Now, I came home and I
Speaker 3: told my buddy his name is Jewel. He was like,
Speaker 3: funny that you should tell me this story. So he
Speaker 3: lives up in what is called the tug Hill Plateau,
Speaker 3: which is a very sparsely populated area foothills of the
Speaker 3: Adirondack Mountains in upstate New York. He has a big
Speaker 3: swath of land up there and around him, we probably
Speaker 3: have two hundred and fifty to three hundred acres of
Speaker 3: just untouched wilderness that nobody goes into. Except for us
Speaker 3: really to either hunt. We now call a Broken Bridge
Speaker 3: Research Area because something's going on there in Broken Bridge,
Speaker 3: for sure. We call it broken Bridge because there was
Speaker 3: this bridge. There's a trout stream that runs through the property,
Speaker 3: and there's this bridge. My partner didn't build it, but
Speaker 3: he had fixed it and used it all the time
Speaker 3: to go over to the other side of his property.
Speaker 3: Of his property, there's something like sixty acres on that
Speaker 3: side of the stream. He was also a marine like myself.
Speaker 3: I've had a couple incidents where I would get the
Speaker 3: willies when it would go over to that side of
Speaker 3: the stream. Not that long before I came to him
Speaker 3: of the story, he had gone down to go across
Speaker 3: one day and the bridge and I can attest, and
Speaker 3: I've taken pictures and I can actually send you some.
Speaker 3: It looked like something literally ripped down the bridge. These
Speaker 3: are like smaller fence post size timbers that were going
Speaker 3: across plus two by sixes. It was strong. He would
Speaker 3: go across it like there was nothing, and he had
Speaker 3: repaired it, and something definitely tore it down, at least
Speaker 3: as my opinion, and he would agree. So that kind
Speaker 3: of started this whole thing. Where after I came back
Speaker 3: and told him the story. He told me about that.
Speaker 3: He told me also about it encounter that he had
Speaker 3: was something that bluff charged them in his backyard, him
Speaker 3: and his wife and his dogs. He has two Great Pyrenees,
Speaker 3: which are monster. They're both over one hundred and twenty
Speaker 3: pounds and one of them is about one point fifty.
Speaker 3: I can't even drive up and walk up to the
Speaker 3: house without them barking. They're really good guard dogs. These
Speaker 3: things wanted nothing to do with whatever was there. He
Speaker 3: got bluff charged, and he showed me because I went
Speaker 3: out there the next day after he told me the story,
Speaker 3: and it's all like trampled down this long grass and
Speaker 3: there's a couple breaks right by there as well. It
Speaker 3: terrified him and his wife. Where's life. I was like,
Speaker 3: not that I can help you with this, but I
Speaker 3: can tell you what I think. So we went out
Speaker 3: and we've been now from that point on, we've been
Speaker 3: doing all kinds of stuff out there, and we found
Speaker 3: in certain spots these like strange drag marks, which there's
Speaker 3: no explanation for him other than whether something I don't
Speaker 3: even know how to describe it, something got killed. And
Speaker 3: then it was drug, but there's no blood or anything
Speaker 3: like that, so it's hard to say whoops from the
Speaker 3: other side of the stream. We had this one incident
Speaker 3: where we were walking back on the trail and I
Speaker 3: looked over and there was this tree break, which, not
Speaker 3: in itself, was like, oh my gosh, it's a broken tree.
Speaker 3: People see tree breaks all the time. But the way
Speaker 3: that this was broken, it was right into the why
Speaker 3: of another tree, like another two limbs. I'll send you
Speaker 3: a picture of this too. It's what I call a
Speaker 3: blair Witch They were like blair Witch sticks. Do you
Speaker 3: remember that movie blair Witch Project, Remember how it had
Speaker 3: those stick figures that were hanging from the trees. This
Speaker 3: was like that, but the sticks were all woven together.
Speaker 3: I can't even describe it. Have to see it and.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back after these.
Speaker 3: Messages, which is really bizarre, and there's no way that
Speaker 3: those are just happening. There was no way that's just
Speaker 3: happening in the woods. So that all comes up to
Speaker 3: my last story that I've got for the broken bridge,
Speaker 3: because stuff just keeps happening there. I did gifting. He's
Speaker 3: got stone fences that run through this property, like the
Speaker 3: old cool stone fences. They're about three and a half
Speaker 3: feet tall. I'm a big rock nerd. I polish the
Speaker 3: stones right from all over the place. I put a
Speaker 3: couple of those out there. I put a stuffed animal
Speaker 3: that looked like a monkey or a sasquatch out on there.
Speaker 3: I think I put an apple out. I put a
Speaker 3: trail cam on it. I saw a couple of deer
Speaker 3: in the trail cam, but nothing else. But everything was gone.
Speaker 3: The apple, I understand, but the other there's stuff where
Speaker 3: we're to go. Then as I'm walking around, like walked
Speaker 3: spiraling out around this fence, I get to a spot
Speaker 3: on the fence. This fence is like two feet wide,
Speaker 3: like I said, about three and a half feet tall.
Speaker 3: In this spot, just off of camera where the camera
Speaker 3: was covering, there was this giant pile of what looked
Speaker 3: like human poop, human feces. It wasn't there, It wasn't deer,
Speaker 3: it wasn't coyote. It looked like a human had squat
Speaker 3: on top of the fence and taken up poop, which
Speaker 3: is just super weird. Again, I can send those pictures
Speaker 3: seat as well. But super bizarre, and it wasn't their prior.
Speaker 3: Definitely wasn't their prior. The last story that I have
Speaker 3: from there, and I haven't been out there since then,
Speaker 3: mainly because my health kind of declined a little bit
Speaker 3: and I just haven't been able to walk around in
Speaker 3: the woods. We have a camp out there. It's actually
Speaker 3: up off of the stream on a big flat area,
Speaker 3: but it's got a gray view. You can watch the
Speaker 3: sunset down the stream and whatnot. It's just a great spot.
Speaker 3: We have a fire pit out there. There have been
Speaker 3: some incidents where we had been sleeping and something was
Speaker 3: coming into the sleeping area and messing with tents, like
Speaker 3: pushing down on the tents and stuff like that. I
Speaker 3: never experienced it, but other people did. So we put
Speaker 3: a fence around it. And it's just like that green
Speaker 3: mesh fence material. It's metal, but it's light weight. But
Speaker 3: we wrapped it around some of these trees and we
Speaker 3: left ourselves like a four foot entry spot. It's about
Speaker 3: six and a half seven foot tall. The fences just
Speaker 3: to deter anything, I guess you could say. And by
Speaker 3: that time, I've also learned that trail cams are very
Speaker 3: good at keeping things at bay. I don't know if
Speaker 3: they can see in for it. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: All I know is that whenever I have trailcams out, well,
Speaker 3: I don't have issues and I don't want the issues, really,
Speaker 3: But when I'm going to sleep, I put trail cams
Speaker 3: out and I've got two other small cams that I
Speaker 3: clip onto things that over the entire site one night
Speaker 3: because I got this nice new thermal camera that goes
Speaker 3: onto your cell phone. Very cool tool, and it's just
Speaker 3: cool to go out there with and just look at
Speaker 3: anything at night, let alone sasquatch. I have four daughters,
Speaker 3: so they go through phones like their job. So I
Speaker 3: have a couple extra ones that I use for recording
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So I have two dedicated phones
Speaker 3: besides my own that I take out to the field
Speaker 3: with me. I have these things totally charged up. I
Speaker 3: am going to set a camera trap. This is what's
Speaker 3: in my head. I go out there all alone, which,
Speaker 3: by the way, just don't do that, my warning to folks.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, yeah, my buddy's two hundred meters from me.
Speaker 3: If anything really goes down, it's all faulty thinking. But
Speaker 3: either way, I had set up the cameras in a
Speaker 3: type of camera trap where there was about a eight
Speaker 3: foot wide area of the fence that was the closest
Speaker 3: to the tent, so it was about six or seven
Speaker 3: feet from the tent to the fence. I funneled it
Speaker 3: to where I wanted it. Something bipedal the footfalls came
Speaker 3: up from the stream. I could hear it. And this
Speaker 3: is two in the morning, and I'm waiting. I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, the hearse starts racing. I'm in the tent,
Speaker 3: sitting in a chair with the part of the window
Speaker 3: just enough so I can see out at one of
Speaker 3: these blackout tents. I looked and I made sure that
Speaker 3: my phone, the one that I had the thermal in,
Speaker 3: was at one hundred percent, and it absolutely was one
Speaker 3: hundred percent. Thermal is on, and I've got it down
Speaker 3: in my lap. I hear this thing coming up, and
Speaker 3: I hear it pause exactly where I want it. It
Speaker 3: sounded like because I could hear the fence move a
Speaker 3: little bit like it put its hands on the fence.
Speaker 3: And as soon as that happened, I lifted up my
Speaker 3: phone to do the thermal. One's dead completely sapped of energy.
Speaker 3: I do what you would call a reload, like a
Speaker 3: mag reload. But I pulled my other phone out, pop
Speaker 3: the thermal onto it, power it up, and I bring
Speaker 3: that one up and it goes dead too. I don't
Speaker 3: know what to say about that other than oh, my gosh,
Speaker 3: are you kidding me? Of course, this is what's happening, right,
Speaker 3: But this one, now, I'm like, oh, what have I done.
Speaker 3: I'm scared because there's this thing out there right. I
Speaker 3: can't even tell you how many times it swore. I
Speaker 3: was just like, this is the dumbest idea I've ever
Speaker 3: had in my entire life. And I'm telling you that
Speaker 3: this thing's just standing there and I can feel it.
Speaker 3: I can't hear anything, but I can feel it. I
Speaker 3: can feel that it's there. Now, I'm gonna get a
Speaker 3: little woo on everyone, But this is my story and
Speaker 3: this is where I'm telling it, right. So I had
Speaker 3: a I guess what you would call a near death
Speaker 3: experience when I was in the military. I drowned in
Speaker 3: open ocean. I was a reconnaissance marine in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 3: We would find and scuba dive all the time. There
Speaker 3: was stationed at Cambellgion in North Carolina and one day
Speaker 3: we're finning. We do a whole combat load with US
Speaker 3: sometimes and we tie that combat load off to us
Speaker 3: with five point fifty cords, and you waterproof your backpack.
Speaker 3: When you do that, the backpack floats, and it's just training,
Speaker 3: so you have resistance. My waterproofing failed that day, and
Speaker 3: it took me down under and I couldn't fight it.
Speaker 3: It took me down. I'm telling you, I don't know
Speaker 3: what it was, but I could not free myself from
Speaker 3: that five fifty line. I couldn't cut it. I even
Speaker 3: had my die knife out, which I sharpened later on
Speaker 3: after I got rescued. It would not cut through that cord.
Speaker 3: And I just remember everything going black and I was
Speaker 3: shockingly calm. That was all training though. Then the next
Speaker 3: thing I know, I wake up on the safety boat
Speaker 3: just puke in my guts out over the side because
Speaker 3: they had got me breathing again. It's not like I
Speaker 3: had a near death experience where I like talk to
Speaker 3: Jesus or had anything happen. But ever since that's happened,
Speaker 3: I've been able to see auras around people. I can
Speaker 3: tell what type of mood they're in now, not through TV.
Speaker 3: It's always in person. I can only do it in person.
Speaker 3: I can't even do it through my glasses. I hunt
Speaker 3: a decent amount too. I can see a deer if
Speaker 3: they have an aura as well. I don't know what
Speaker 3: that means, but they have an aura, and even if
Speaker 3: it's dark out, but I know there's a deer there
Speaker 3: because I've done it the tests with thermal where I've
Speaker 3: seen a deer and I brought the thermal down and
Speaker 3: I could see the aura around the deer even in
Speaker 3: the dark. I know this thing is in front of me.
Speaker 3: I'm on the verge of having a nervous breakdown because
Speaker 3: I feel this thing there. And I also can tell
Speaker 3: you that it didn't have an aura, so that to
Speaker 3: me just made it that much worse. I don't know
Speaker 3: what that means exactly, but it did not have an aura.
Speaker 3: I couldn't see it. And I can tell you that
Speaker 3: everything that I know that it's physical in this world,
Speaker 3: I can see its aura. I guess I haven't looked
Speaker 3: for auras and fish and bugs, but mammals and stuff
Speaker 3: I can see them. This thing did not have it,
Speaker 3: so it was scary to me. I just remember sitting there,
Speaker 3: everything was buzzing, Yeah, never go out again, but it
Speaker 3: myself like that.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that you obviously had this we
Speaker 1: call a near death experience. I've talked to people that
Speaker 1: have had things similar to that happen after having something
Speaker 1: like that, so I think that's a very interesting thing
Speaker 1: that you're able to do.
Speaker 4: At this point. I don't really consider that WU.
Speaker 3: People do. Plenty of people do, trust me. I don't
Speaker 3: think it of it as WU either, But thanks for
Speaker 3: validating me there, Ryan.
Speaker 4: You are so welcome.
Speaker 1: You've been validated, which means absolutely nothing that in eight
Speaker 1: dollars at.
Speaker 4: Starbucks, a good you, a cup of coffee.
Speaker 1: What I consider WU, and I want to get into
Speaker 1: this a little bit with you before we get out
Speaker 1: of here, is some of the other high strangeness things,
Speaker 1: the orbs, the weird things that go along with these creatures.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's in conjunction with these encounters. Sometimes it's before,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's after, but there are weird or high strangeness
Speaker 1: things that go along with this. People believe these things
Speaker 1: disappear in front of their eyes. I'm not talking about camouflage.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about being able to blend with the environment.
Speaker 1: I'm talking people have physically claimed to see them evaporate.
Speaker 1: In lack of a better term, that is some weird
Speaker 1: shit to me. I've actually done follow up videos because
Speaker 1: I've posted videos from things that I've found here on
Speaker 1: the property. Which's one footprint. The first footprint that I
Speaker 1: ever physically cast myself was here on our property in
Speaker 1: North Carolina three plus years ago. It was one single
Speaker 1: footprint in the middle of a path that I walked
Speaker 1: the dogs every day. Of course, as soon as I
Speaker 1: posted a video, they're like, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1: You had bigfoot on a pogo stick, right, big dude, right, Yes, No, jackass.
Speaker 1: It has to do with the substrate, because six inches
Speaker 1: to the right or left or even in front of
Speaker 1: this print was higher ground our properties, not level. I
Speaker 1: actually went out and physically showed people how it had
Speaker 1: rained a couple of days before. This was a low
Speaker 1: spot where water had collected. Absolutely, I went out there
Speaker 1: and jumped up and down multiple times on video right
Speaker 1: next to I'm talking four to six inches away from
Speaker 1: this priant and you could see nothing.
Speaker 3: I've seen one where it was like tracks in the snow,
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, it's gone, I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's kind of weird, but it is a different thing.
Speaker 1: You're right, And I don't know where to put that.
Speaker 1: I don't know what box to put that in because
Speaker 1: it is weird and high strangeness, but all of these
Speaker 1: other things that go along. I've literally interviewed a guy
Speaker 1: in the past who said he saw one of these
Speaker 1: creatures coming off of a freaking UFO that had landed
Speaker 1: in the middle of the woods.
Speaker 4: I don't know where to put that.
Speaker 3: I don't know yet there.
Speaker 1: When you're doing your research and I know you auras,
Speaker 1: And obviously people think this guy's bad shit crazy because
Speaker 1: he says he could see oors. But where do you
Speaker 1: put that high strange and stuff when you do hear
Speaker 1: other stories. I've told it so many times recently people
Speaker 1: are probably tired of hearing me talk about my experiences
Speaker 1: last summer. The weird part of that was we saw
Speaker 1: two sets of glowing white eyes. I literally did an
Speaker 1: episode yesterday of that Bigfoot podcast I recorded with doctor
Speaker 1: Hogan Chirot something like four thousand hours he spent in
Speaker 1: the wilderness with chimps, other primates, gorillas. We were having
Speaker 1: this conversation about this high strangeness, this weird part of Bigfoot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you just don't know where to put some of
Speaker 1: the things that happen. I guess it comes down to this,
Speaker 1: when you're talking about those things that are outside of
Speaker 1: what we understand to be normal. How do you approach
Speaker 1: that in this subject when you're doing research. Do you
Speaker 1: dismiss that whole cloth? Do you think there might be
Speaker 1: some other things going on, or do you think it's
Speaker 1: part of the phenomenon. And it's possible that these creatures
Speaker 1: may have some of these abilities light glowing eyes, because
Speaker 1: it's one of the things that came up in that
Speaker 1: conversation is human beings don't have it to pay them
Speaker 1: loose to them. We don't have the eyeshine that deer, cats, dogs,
Speaker 1: other creatures in the wild, even spiders. You go out
Speaker 1: at night in the woods here and you shine a
Speaker 1: flashlight on the ground. It is frightening how many spiders
Speaker 1: are standing back at you because they're reflecting the light
Speaker 1: from the flashlight. We don't have that as humans. Apes
Speaker 1: don't have that. Great apes don't have that ability because
Speaker 1: they don't have the physical thing in your eye that
Speaker 1: to pay them loose to them. That causes that effect.
Speaker 1: So glowing eyes is a weird thing, and I know
Speaker 1: where I was going Earlier that conversation I was having
Speaker 1: with Hogan, I said to him, I've said it so
Speaker 1: many times. I haven't seen all of the footage that
Speaker 1: we were recording at the time this happened, when we
Speaker 1: had this encounter, I have seen something in the video.
Speaker 1: There is light in front of us. It's quick, it's fast,
Speaker 1: but it's there. So I know I'm not crazy. And
Speaker 1: I told Hogan the other day, I said, look, in
Speaker 1: the heat of the moment, very much like your story earlier.
Speaker 1: You said, I don't know if I freaking made up
Speaker 1: this big log or this big ass plaque or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: So I said to him, is it possible that someone
Speaker 1: had ambient light? Was it from one of the cameras.
Speaker 1: Was somebody's flashlight on maybe not pointing there that was
Speaker 1: causing this to be reflected back to us and it
Speaker 1: wasn't self illuminating. That's possible. I'm open to that because
Speaker 1: it could have been the thing that was going on.
Speaker 1: But I do believe that what I saw was bioluminescence
Speaker 1: or these glowing white eyes. That's some weird shit. Man,
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. I don't know where to file that away.
Speaker 1: And that happened to me obviously, You've had some weird
Speaker 1: stuff happen. How do you approach that as a researcher
Speaker 1: investigator looking into this. Is it something you say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to dismiss that, or I'm going to take
Speaker 1: that data and say that's something new.
Speaker 4: How do you approach the WU and the high strangeness.
Speaker 3: I take it and stride. I would never discard that,
Speaker 3: and so many people do though. They just push it
Speaker 3: off to the side and they're like, that doesn't fit
Speaker 3: within my paradigm. I can't do that. This podcast that
Speaker 3: I do started as a sasquatch podcast. I just can't
Speaker 3: stay within it, right. I can't stay within the confines
Speaker 3: because to me, I've dealt with and experienced too many
Speaker 3: things that make me question all of that. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that there's not a bipedal Harry eight and that's
Speaker 3: what we're actually dealing with, but there's something more to that,
Speaker 3: in my opinion.
Speaker 1: And stay tuned for more Sasquatch out Toesy. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: What that is exactly? We all have theories, and theories
Speaker 3: are like assholes. We all have them, right, and usually
Speaker 3: they probably stink. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I think my motto is I don't know anything, so
Speaker 3: I have to look at everything with an open mind.
Speaker 3: And as soon as you start shutting those things down,
Speaker 3: I think you're missing it. I think you're missing probably
Speaker 3: ninety percent of what's happening, because if you shut it out,
Speaker 3: you're not going to experience it. At least that's my opinion.
Speaker 3: I really have had some seriously weird experiences, not just sasquatch,
Speaker 3: but paranormal stuff because I'm open to it. I think
Speaker 3: that certain things happen to folks that are and then
Speaker 3: people be like, I think you might be delusional, maybe
Speaker 3: you're making it up, or maybe your brain is making
Speaker 3: it up. I always counter with the fact that I
Speaker 3: am a trained observer. This is what I did for
Speaker 3: a living. I would go into contested areas and sketch
Speaker 3: targets and stuff right my entire job as a reconnaissance marine,
Speaker 3: then as a police officer, to see things that other
Speaker 3: people don't see. Right, ye have as much discernment. It's
Speaker 3: absolutely possible, and that the one thing I've gotten very
Speaker 3: good at is not letting my emotions take me out
Speaker 3: of that and being able to sit in the moment
Speaker 3: and be comfortable enough to be coherent in how I
Speaker 3: approach this, so fear doesn't affect me the same way
Speaker 3: that it does other people, because I've trained to myself
Speaker 3: to not be that way. So, yes, there are some
Speaker 3: weird things that go on out there. I've had some
Speaker 3: orb stuff happen in the woods. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: I can't explain any of it, but I saw it,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't the only one that was there that
Speaker 3: saw it, so at least I know it's not a
Speaker 3: complete figment of my imagination. That's where I would file
Speaker 3: all that stuff, is that you've got to put it
Speaker 3: at least as a side note or a footnote and
Speaker 3: be like, this is part of this experience, whether I
Speaker 3: even believe it myself, this is something important to this
Speaker 3: and I need to at least acknowledge it in the research,
Speaker 3: in the data, because let's be honest, data matters. There's
Speaker 3: folks out there. I don't know if you got to
Speaker 3: meet her in Gallinburg. Her name's Terrestrial. She does the
Speaker 3: Sasquatch data project I should have introduced you to. She
Speaker 3: takes actual data from sightings and stuff and crunches those numbers,
Speaker 3: and her data is amazing. And she's got things that
Speaker 3: deal with eyeshine and the color of the eye shine
Speaker 3: and stuff like that color of the fur. That data
Speaker 3: is pretty amazing. I've tried to hook up her with
Speaker 3: the gentleman that does the Bigfoot mapping project. I've interviewed
Speaker 3: him and his Texas Siding's pretty awesome. There's just as
Speaker 3: much non tangible things, but people need to give it credence.
Speaker 4: We mentioned you show a couple of times.
Speaker 1: Tell everybody really quickly about your podcast, Broadcasting Seeds, where
Speaker 1: they can find it and what they can expect when
Speaker 1: they go check it out.
Speaker 3: So Broadcasting Seeds is the podcast, and you can find
Speaker 3: it at broadcasting seeds dot com or any of the
Speaker 3: podcast players YouTube. Sometimes when I remember, I try to
Speaker 3: do Rumble too, but YouTube and where you can find
Speaker 3: all the other podcasts, Apple, Spotify, the whole gamut awesome.
Speaker 1: I will link to it in the show notes right here.
Speaker 1: All you guys have to do is click it, go
Speaker 1: over and check it out. Show them some love over
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Watch a few videos, leave them some comments,
Speaker 1: and do some liking over on YouTube.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for coming on home. I've had a
Speaker 4: blast talking to you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you having men. I've been a fan of
Speaker 3: your show for years.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it very much, my friend.
Speaker 5: They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay.
Speaker 5: I don't want to be out that.
Speaker 6: Job, this job, Chid everything, Wait king back for joy
Speaker 6: for me, joy staying right.
Speaker 3: You come in.
Speaker 5: Right away, Sissie still sat side side stay, stay, stills
Speaker 5: gas and games and start plays and pst start my side,
Speaker 5: gainstusts pass