WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.679 --> 00:00:03.919 Disclaimer. We'd like to know before the start of this 2 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:06.519 interview that the opinions about to be expressed by the 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:09.679 guest of tonight's Getting Salty Experience Podcast are that of 4 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:12.679 the guest and do not directly or necessarily reflect the 5 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.960 views of the host of the Getting Salty Experience Podcast. 6 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:34.359 You're listening to the Getting Salty Experience Podcast. 7 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:49.719 Hello, Hello, Doc qcy Beast, Darren p qucy Beast, Rob Pocaccini. 8 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:51.840 Welcome all back to the Get. 9 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:55.079 Salty Experienced Podcast, the only one you know what brings 10 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.479 the fire house kitchen table to you, to you Hello, 11 00:00:58.600 --> 00:00:59.200 whateverthing else? 12 00:00:59.240 --> 00:00:59.399 Bro? 13 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:00.159 Right? 14 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:04.159 No, no, no, I'm disappointing park right now. But no, 15 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:08.879 not yet. No, No, I'm gonna all to you out 16 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:11.000 of place right now. You see that I'm not kidding. Wow, 17 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:12.719 I don't know. 18 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:15.200 Continuing in our segments of. 19 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.799 The authors, Oh yeah. 20 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:20.319 Thirty five is you must know? 21 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:24.200 Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, number one best seller right now 22 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:26.280 on Amazon. Guys, better get it, you baby to it. 23 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:30.079 Oh sorry, we have we have best selling authors on 24 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:31.640 this show. What else can we do on this show? 25 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:31.799 Bro? 26 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:35.359 We get the legends, we get best selling authors, we 27 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:36.799 get guys from all world. 28 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:38.359 Still they're still for sale? 29 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:39.480 Or what's the story. 30 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:41.359 Back on Amazon's second rock. 31 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.959 Yeah, yep, yeah, hot right now, Hot. 32 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:49.680 Hot, the hot item for Christmas. That and Cornerstones of Leadership. 33 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.280 You gotta get that in there, little plug in the 34 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:54.959 form you know what I mean? Wait a minute, I 35 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:55.760 mean this one right here? 36 00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:01.480 Okay, the stameless plug. Sorry, the chief he doesn't even 37 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:01.840 realize it. 38 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:04.799 The guy who knew right rough work with him that 39 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:06.560 this guy is going to be best selling. 40 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:07.680 All what the you mean? 41 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:09.719 We kind of knew the job. 42 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.080 We knew it wasn't going to be Yes, you. 43 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:16.800 Don't know when you're an idiot. I'm an idiot, so 44 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:19.599 I'll never never are you anyway? 45 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:19.919 Rough? 46 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:23.560 You're out in Iowa? 47 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:24.560 Wow? 48 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:26.080 Is it lonely day? By yourself? 49 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:28.120 Right now? By myself? 50 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:28.800 Yeah? 51 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:29.919 Who you have to hunting with? 52 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:38.120 Wordy myself? Enjoy at Eastern quiet yourself? 53 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:40.479 Yeah, my friends right up the road. 54 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:42.039 Are your friends there already? 55 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:44.319 They go cow tipping? 56 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:45.520 Yeah? 57 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:52.080 So you got one right sticking in your Grandma, you 58 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:52.919 got one already. 59 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.840 You can come home now. I'm coming home Sunday, Sunday. 60 00:02:58.360 --> 00:02:59.400 What do you get? 61 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.240 Yeah, you know, get one one or two. I'm still 62 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.039 waiting for the picture. He's supposed to me the other day. 63 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.199 What's the big one look like? How many points? 64 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:08.360 Fifteen? 65 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.479 Fifteen pointer? No room in the dead room. 66 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.879 Where are you gonna put it in the headroom? 67 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:21.120 The death room? 68 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:25.759 Yeah, oh man, that's right. That's where the key truck is. 69 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:27.360 The truck is out here, the old truck. 70 00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:29.120 You uh you hit it with the boat. 71 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:31.039 Bone arrow? 72 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:32.120 Yeah, boone hour. 73 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:32.759 I told Roofie. 74 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:34.080 The next thing I wanted to do is run out 75 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:35.800 there with a bulle knife and his teeth and jump 76 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.159 on his back and just d it. 77 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:41.080 You know, I see that? 78 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:42.879 Did he did he hear? 79 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:44.639 What his last word was before you put an hour 80 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:45.960 through his heart? Did he say anything? 81 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:47.759 He didn't say nothing? 82 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.759 Nothing? He said he served them a little have a 83 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:52.319 little tears. 84 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:58.400 Did the Sebastian man of scalcoal? He realized the mind 85 00:03:58.400 --> 00:03:59.919 fuck with this thing sticking out of his chest? 86 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.280 I served him as papers coops, you did, yeah, but. 87 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:10.400 You got you gotta bring that up. 88 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:16.000 That was a good one. Oh uh, I got today. 89 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:17.480 I gotta served papers today. 90 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.360 And then my wife. 91 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:22.600 Didn't even come out of my finished coming out of 92 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:26.040 my mouth before he was like what I'm like? Coops 93 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:26.759 still got it. 94 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:27.800 Man, he's pretty quick. 95 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:29.600 Man. Yeah, Man, so that old. 96 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.560 Guy I practiced on the little l Asian kids. Bro, 97 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:32.560 you know what I mean. 98 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.680 All right, but let's get all the shenanigans and chicanery 99 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:40.319 out of the way, because we got some serious topics. 100 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:42.279 I want all your young guys out there to get 101 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:46.839 a pad, paper pad, paper paned pencil and jop down 102 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.360 notes because there's nuggets in every one of these stories. 103 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:54.000 We got two stories today's different fires of the thirty 104 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.399 fives that you missed. Know my best selling alph Billy 105 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:03.920 Goldfetter and chief Lead. He's gonna get frequent flyer miles 106 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:05.879 from getting salty now he's been on the shelf cent. 107 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.920 He's definitely we can see this point counter is up to. 108 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:12.480 He's gotta be up there twice flying all over the world. 109 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.040 He's got to get insalty credit card. 110 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.399 We got to send them a microphone or something for 111 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:19.839 God to FMB man. 112 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:22.879 Or LM money. We gotta turn this sound down. 113 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:24.720 Figure me in, figure me in, baby. 114 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.879 Let's go, oh God, let's get to two commercials really 115 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.160 quick and then we'll bring them in. 116 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.480 All right, let's listen to New Jersey Fire. 117 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.959 Established in nineteen thirty and under the current ownership since 118 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:40.879 nineteen eighty seven. The New Jersey Fire Equipment Company handles 119 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:45.160 a complete line of fire department equipment and supplies. Headquartered 120 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.680 in green Brook, the company operates full three M Scott 121 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:53.079 service facilities in Ridgefield Park and Tom's River, staff by 122 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.199 ten fully authorized Scott certified technicians with a fleet of 123 00:05:57.319 --> 00:05:59.360 six fully equipped service fans. 124 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:00.800 All New Jersey. 125 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:04.759 Fire technicians and sales representatives are active or retired firefighters, 126 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.600 officers or chief officers, career and volunteer. 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Sales and service are limited to the state 138 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:59.399 of New Jersey. Find us now at www dot NJFE 139 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:14.160 dot com. That's www dot NJFE dot com. 140 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.199 All right next to what is here? 141 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:14.279 Need a new floor for your fire station? Choose an 142 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:18.040 Armor Tough interlocking flooring system to cover your aging, stained, crack, 143 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:21.759 concrete or epoxy floor. Armourtuff has been around for nearly 144 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.160 twenty years and has proven to be the best choice 145 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.800 and renovating your station's floors, covering nearly six hundred floors 146 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.680 across the country. Proudly made in America, Armourtuff comes with 147 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:34.959 a lifetime warranty and are usually installed in one or 148 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:37.160 two days, depending on the size of your station, with 149 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.439 virtually no disruption in your station's operation. Our system is 150 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.839 guaranteed from chipping, cracking, peeling, braking, or staining. The tiles 151 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.959 are stained resistant and impervious to chemicals or volatiles that 152 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.279 are used in the fire service. Damage one tile, lift 153 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:55.800 and replace without anyone knowing, and once installed, your floor 154 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:57.879 would be easy to clean with just soap and water. 155 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:02.519 Is your current floor slip? Eliminate the slip with Armor Tough. 156 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:10.279 You asked me watching frishing coefficient. Well here it is. 157 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:20.680 Hoppy clocking the coefficient. We left that in there for 158 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.839 Lee because see, that's how you're a best selling office. 159 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.560 Sounds she would find puticit, He writes. 160 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.600 His he's I don't know. His reaction is not really 161 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:32.279 he didn't find it funny. 162 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:37.960 That's fine, all right, all right, I think that's it. 163 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:39.200 I think we're gonna jump right in. 164 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.519 And bring you want to do the shout out now 165 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:43.320 to your friend really quick? 166 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:45.840 Oh no, you have to get Chief leaping because he's walking. 167 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:48.039 Okay, Yeah, let's bring in Cheap. 168 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:52.720 Leap and Billy Goldfetter. Worldcome round. I'm going up the 169 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:56.840 world round Office of thirty five. As you must know here. 170 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:06.000 You are, you're back again. You must like us, really. 171 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:16.320 Like us, like you guys, mush. 172 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.960 I went to a fantastic I was I was honored 173 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:23.720 to be asked to go to Chief leave for time 174 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.000 with five Joe, wiz Me and Chief Steve went all 175 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.759 the way out there. We had a hell of a time, 176 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.320 a lot of great guys. I'm gonna be there with 177 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:36.240 the Chief lead. Thanks for the invite, fellow, Thank you brother. 178 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:39.360 But do you have that picture of a boy Mikey 179 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.039 who was out there? 180 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:40.440 I do? 181 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:41.399 I do? You ready? 182 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:41.919 All right? 183 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:44.240 So we have two of them. So I'm going to 184 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.120 show you this one boy, the little Michael little shout 185 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:46.960 out there. 186 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:50.279 He is there, he is. So that's that's Mike with 187 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:53.840 his parents. Who his parents? So he had he had 188 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.559 been the Elmhurst buff all of the years that I 189 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:00.159 worked in the four six Battalion. They moved down on 190 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:04.200 to North Carolina and when Mike found out about the party, 191 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.279 he told his parents, we gotta go, and he drove. 192 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:11.399 They drove him up there and they attended the party. 193 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:12.559 So it was pretty cool. 194 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.840 So thank you to not only Mike but his parents. 195 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:17.919 And I think he got another cool picture. 196 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.240 Yeah, I think. So let me see this one might 197 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:21.080 be a good one. Let's see. 198 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:26.039 Oh it's a great shot. Who's that old man? Oh 199 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:26.399 that's me. 200 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:28.799 I was gonna say, how can you. 201 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:30.440 Tell everybody it was a Hawaiian party? 202 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:30.559 Oh? 203 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.919 You and uh five fight at Joe Hawaiian shirts on? 204 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.879 Yeah it was because it wasn't five Fight at Joe Wizz. 205 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:41.000 So what do you want to wear? I said? 206 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.679 I said, let's wear a collar shirt that says f 207 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:46.639 dn Y or something. He's like, how about Hawaiian shirt? 208 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:47.919 I said, why are you asking me? 209 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:48.120 Then? 210 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.600 I said, you want to wear Hawaiian shirts? Who wear 211 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:54.759 Hawaiian shirts? So that's what we did. We wore Hawaiian shirts. 212 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:55.440 All right. 213 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:57.440 It was a great time. Food was good too. 214 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:00.720 Man. Yeah, Michael was in the chat. 215 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:08.919 I see, Uh, he's available on the air, available, available for. 216 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:12.240 Nice nice job, Mikey. 217 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.559 All right, we're gonna give Chief Leave and Billy the 218 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.759 privilege of bringing in these next two ones. The chief, 219 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.639 right one's still a fire fighter, I believe. 220 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.639 Man, Yeah, introduce him. 221 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:26.120 Yeah. 222 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:32.000 So uh, I'm gonna start with our first guest, Mike Tiger, 223 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:36.320 who's the deputy chief and the chief fire marsh from 224 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.879 Loud County, Virginia. And he's gonna talk to us this 225 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.919 evening about about as close a call as you can have. 226 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:48.360 All Right, ready, family dwelling, bring them both upright. 227 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:53.840 Here we go, Yes, and then ready for the next one. 228 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:54.879 Good Frank. 229 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:59.320 And the other person we're going to bring in is 230 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:03.799 Brandon Corey, and he's going to talk about a fire 231 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:05.720 that that he responded to. 232 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.360 In the up the Upper Peninsula. 233 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.279 You stole out from me, I say that. 234 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:20.480 Well, here he is baseball. 235 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.120 Applause, he's in the other day where it snows three 236 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:25.879 hundred and sixty two days out of the year. 237 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:30.519 I went six to eight feet and welcome to the show. 238 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.360 Welcome to the show, gentlemen, Thanks for joining us, Thanks 239 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.759 for being part of the thirty Fires. 240 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:37.639 You can know it's an amazing book. 241 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:39.759 I think this is going to go down with the 242 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.159 Report from Engine coup in the eighty two is one 243 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:45.120 of the iconic books in the fire's service. 244 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:46.919 That's how good I like, that's how. 245 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:48.399 Much I love it. 246 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.840 Wherever you want to jump in first the pledge. 247 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:55.600 So just real quick, I just just and again, as 248 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:57.679 we said on the last show, there's there's no bragging 249 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.360 here because Frank and I coordinated it, but the people 250 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.679 who were there are telling the stories. And then all 251 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:06.639 the money being made from this book is being donated 252 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:10.639 to four charities, Chief for a Downy Firefighter, can't support Network, 253 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:14.519 Tunnel to Towers, and the First Responder Center of Excellence, 254 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:17.480 so there's no money, but we are really excited. Yesterday 255 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:21.759 we found out that it's an Amazon bestseller, so it's 256 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:22.279 pretty cool. 257 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:23.159 We're pretty excited. 258 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:27.679 And they thought I was pulling that Leke Amazon bestseller Baby. 259 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.320 Yeah, we're real proud of that, and again not only 260 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.159 for the learning but for the money we're raising. But 261 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.120 people like Micah and Brandon, who after we went through 262 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.519 the whole process, said yeah, we like to tell our story. 263 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:44.360 So I'm going to start my conversation with Mike. And 264 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.159 this is a little close to me. I was the 265 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.840 chief of department there in Loudon County in the for 266 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:53.799 about almost ten years, in the very very early stages 267 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:57.879 when it was mostly volunteer, and now it's about fifty 268 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:02.200 to fifty right, half career, half volunteer, and careers staffing 269 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.399 around the clock pretty much. So it's one of the 270 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:11.960 its America's dastest growing county. And in May of twenty 271 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:17.080 eight they had that fire, that fire that not only 272 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:22.200 changed some of the guys involved, but it changed the 273 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.000 direction of the organization in my opinion, And Michaeh will 274 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.000 get into that. But they went to a dwelling fire 275 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.679 on a street named Meadowood that they'll never forget. They 276 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.399 arrived on the scene and they had heavy fire coming 277 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:40.600 from this two story, single family modern construction right lightweight 278 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.440 wood trusts. This thing was rocking when they went in 279 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:48.120 the house and they were doing a search. Things got very, 280 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:53.200 very very ugly, and instead of telling the story, I'm 281 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:56.200 going to yield to micaeh who now serves as a 282 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:01.320 four star chief in Loud County. He's the chief of 283 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.840 the Far Marshall Bureau. And Michael, welcome to Getting Salty. 284 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.159 It's a pleasure to have you. And I think, as 285 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.159 the guy said when they opened the show, whether it 286 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:14.759 was Cubes or whoever, grab your pencils because there's a 287 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:22.200 lot to learn. Yeah, these guys have got some stories. Michael, welcome, aboard, welcome, if. 288 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:25.159 I thank you, it's it's an honor to be with 289 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:29.120 the group. And either Gonza wants to hit the pledge, 290 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:29.639 I believe. 291 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.320 Oh he's a mind reader too. 292 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.799 Look at him. Look at that ship. I mean, okay, 293 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:36.399 and we just get that the way before we get going. 294 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:37.159 Thank you, guys, can we go? 295 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.240 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States 296 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:48.799 of America and to the Republic for which it stands, 297 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:56.879 One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 298 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.559 Excellent, Thank you everyone, thankesure the reminder chief patriotics. Great 299 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.519 to be an American today. 300 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:19.080 Yes, sir, all right, chief, whenever you're ready, jump right in. 301 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:21.039 So if you're ready, I guess we'll get into it. 302 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:22.639 Yeah, man, let's do it. 303 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.440 So May fifth, two thousand and eight. Let's talk about 304 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.679 it man four three two three eight Metalwood Court, Leesburg, Virginia. 305 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.480 As our third or fourth box call for the day. 306 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.240 I would love to tell everybody that you know we 307 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.399 burn stuff every day in Loudon County, that is not 308 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.919 the case at all. We do run fires. As you 309 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.559 see there in that picture. That's a Type five construction 310 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.200 lightweight which was very common for our county. Was built 311 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.639 in two thousand and six. Brick facade on it two 312 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.639 stories in the front, three in the rear, has a 313 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:03.159 walk out basement on side. Charlie which is actually below 314 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.359 grade to the rear of the home. Arrived on the 315 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.279 scene found two story single family dwelling had smoke and 316 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.680 fire looked like it was either in the attic or 317 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:16.559 run inside. Charlie got out of the truck out of 318 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:21.039 the engine, started side alpha side delta, stopped at the 319 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.480 Charlie Delta corner of the house. This fire looked so 320 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.079 much like all of the other similar types of fires 321 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:34.359 where started on the back melted off the vinyl siding, 322 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.200 off the back end of a V up into the 323 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.960 ventedsaphat up into the attic space, and off to the races. 324 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.039 So I would be remiss if I didn't tell you 325 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:47.839 that my decision for us to go inside that house 326 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.759 was made way before that picture was taken right there, 327 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:59.000 And that's where transparent accountability, however you want to chalk 328 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:02.200 it up on the is my decision that we were 329 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.359 going to go inside that house was before I ever 330 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:09.160 saw four three two three eight meta wood Court. I 331 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.359 account a lot of that either to fire service confidence, 332 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.359 which in other terms could probably be labeled as complacency. 333 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:17.880 I've been to fires like this before. I thought this 334 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.519 one was no different. That picture right there was taken 335 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.519 exactly four minutes before a may day occurred, and I 336 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.839 didn't think me or my crew were going home. Two stories, 337 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.599 single family. You can see very very light smoke at 338 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.680 the front door right there. Made entry on the first floor. 339 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:43.279 After I got in, sighed light whitish grayish colored smoke. 340 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.279 I could see about a foot out ahead of me. 341 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.119 You know the rules. If you can't see, your feet 342 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:50.960 need to be on your knees or down on the floor. 343 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.960 I was able to kind of bend oversee the floor, 344 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:58.519 so I was about ten or fifteen feet behind my firefighter, 345 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:01.319 which her name is Brandy. This was her second ever 346 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:07.160 working structure fire working in the county, so I knew 347 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.359 that this one. What I saw on the backside of 348 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.720 the house, as I said, was the fire haad ran 349 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.000 the outside and up into the attic, but it was 350 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.559 also vented out the second floor window in the center 351 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.480 of the house on the rear, which brings into question 352 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.920 what do we actually call houses, you know, how do 353 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.720 you label floor, so on and so forth. So my 354 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:32.079 return that I gave on the radio was confirming we 355 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.079 had a two story single family dwelling of fire second floor, 356 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.559 and it brought into question whether I was talking second 357 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:43.920 floor from street side or second floor from the rear 358 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.720 of the house. So to be very clear on that 359 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.720 is now, if iire arrived on the scene, I would 360 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.279 describe that as a two story single family dwelling have 361 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:58.640 fire on the number two floor. Then I would also 362 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.200 confirm that we are labeling the floor's basement floor number one, 363 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.960 floor number two. That way, when I say that I've 364 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.440 got a working structure fire number two floor. There is 365 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:12.079 no question where I'm talking about inside that house, so visibility, 366 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.279 As I said, it was about a foot whitish grays 367 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:20.880 colored smoke on the first floor, ticking. I guess what 368 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.599 I saw on my thermal imager before we went up 369 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:26.319 the stairs. Ay, they have a guess. I can give 370 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.440 that answer because I was there obviously. But the answer 371 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.599 was nothing. I saw nothing on my thermal imager because 372 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.359 it was left outside, outside the structure. It was not 373 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.559 in my hands. So that's a learning point. That is 374 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:43.000 a tool. Even jumping in the time machine back to 375 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.720 two thousand and eight, we had technologies such as a 376 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:48.640 thermal imager, and it only works if you have it 377 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:52.680 with you. So I did what I was taught in training. 378 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:55.160 You will hear me talk about training over and over, 379 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:58.200 probably as we're talking here. I am a huge advocate 380 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:01.240 for training. At some point point in my training. It's 381 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.599 as simple as if you can't see, how do you 382 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.160 know that you're getting closer to the fire. What's the 383 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:11.680 simple answer? Simple answer is it's getting hotter. So I 384 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.799 learned very early on in my career that if I 385 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:17.519 turn my head, I can actually tell the difference between 386 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:20.440 heat on my face and heat on my ears. So 387 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:22.880 with that is, it's what I call the microwave test. 388 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:25.160 Is I take things out of the microwave, I hold 389 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.960 it up and I turn my head and you can 390 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.160 use that as a as a teaching point to folks. 391 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.839 So with that is, I turned my head at the 392 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:35.079 bottom of the stairs. Didn't notice any heat whatsoever. So 393 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:40.680 where's the fire? Fires upstairs? So we start upstairs, make 394 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:45.160 the second floor. Trust in your gut and paying attention 395 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.920 to all the different senses that we have. It's not 396 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.279 just vision, it's not hearing, you know. Is we went 397 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.400 up those stairs right there, right there at that banister 398 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.599 on the right hand side. 399 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.880 When you say you went upstairs, did you have a line. 400 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:05.480 Yes, sir. We deployed a two hundred no on the engine. 401 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.359 We stretched a two hundred foot inch and three quarter 402 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.599 attack line with a fog nozzle on it. Made the 403 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.359 second floor. The firefighter did not open the nozzle until 404 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:16.400 we got into the fire room, which was in the 405 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.359 center of the house. Second floor. Conditions in there were 406 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:23.799 as you would expect, you know, fire, active fire in 407 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:28.119 that room. Excuse me, And you know, visibility was a 408 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.480 little bit different. Airbody knows that after you opened the nozzle, 409 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:35.680 what happens your visibility changes, but started hitting active fire 410 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:41.519 inside that room. And something to make a note of 411 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.359 is where I was talking about, you know, paying attention 412 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.160 to where the heat's coming from inside that room. The 413 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:51.359 heat was coming from the left hand side. After we 414 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.599 were in there for a couple of minutes, I left 415 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.440 the line. Immediately after we got up there. The firefighter 416 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:58.519 was still spraying water. I came off the line and 417 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.400 I've entered a window on side Charlie of the house 418 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.880 was double hung window. I raked it out. I pulled 419 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:10.880 the sash into the room. Uh. And you know there's 420 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:13.680 a question I just said, you know, I left the line, 421 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.160 I left my I left my firefighter. Can you do that? 422 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:21.519 Answer is yes. If you talked to Osha, what's osh 423 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.319 you're going to say about it? Well, I've got an 424 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:27.559 answer for that. Also is Osha says that if you're 425 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.160 in an id LH, what do you need to do? 426 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.400 You need to operate as a crew, and that crew 427 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.920 is two or more personnel maintaining contact and in a 428 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.759 position to be able to render assistance. So with that 429 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:41.680 is I maintained voice contact with my firefighter. So I 430 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:42.440 was comfortable with that. 431 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:43.279 Oh. 432 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:46.640 After I got back on the line, the tower crew 433 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:50.960 Lieutenant early in firefighter Singleton, Uh. They came up to 434 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.279 the house, second floor. They started a primary search and 435 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:57.119 a bedroom towards side Alpha that was at the at 436 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:01.319 the corner of Alpha and Delta. To be honest with you, 437 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:05.640 when we made the top of the stairs, I would 438 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.200 I would say what how I would describe it is? 439 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:14.279 The crime wasn't you know? The punishment wasn't fitting the 440 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.519 crime is. I didn't encounter the volume of fire that 441 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.759 I thought that should be there, which meant that it 442 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.680 was definitely above us in the attic. So with that 443 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:26.839 in mind, started knocking down the fire in that bedroom 444 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.440 and I came off the line a second time. I 445 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.400 came off the line a second time. I started doing 446 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:35.480 a primary search inside the master bedroom and I started 447 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.200 noticing some changes. That directional heat that seemed to be 448 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:40.640 coming from the left hand side initially now felt like 449 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.440 it was all around us and kind of felt like 450 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.599 it was trying to push us down into the floor. 451 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:50.599 It went from being warm to being hot to being uncomfortable. 452 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:53.880 Of everybody probably on this call has been on a 453 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.559 fire at some point. Where you try to get that 454 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:58.559 air gap in your gear where you kind of move 455 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:01.759 around a little bit to get a little space in there. 456 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:05.799 And that wasn't clear in it at all. I had 457 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:09.119 called out on the radio to ask the exterior the 458 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:12.599 chief that was on the scene, Yes, sir. 459 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:17.279 How many people are on How many guys are at 460 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.000 the scene at this point? Is it just you and 461 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:20.599 three guys? 462 00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:26.440 How many guys? So our staffing minimum staffing on an 463 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.160 engine is three, and at that point minimum staffing on 464 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:36.759 special service to include tower, straight truck rescue squad was three. 465 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:42.279 Three was bare bones minimum. That day we had three 466 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:44.440 on the truck or on the tower, and there was 467 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.839 actually supposed to be four. That was the staffing thing 468 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.319 that we had going on in the county where they 469 00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.880 would deploy the fourth person off of the Special Service 470 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.400 and deploy them into a minimum staff position elsewhere to 471 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.160 keep units in service. So we were used to running 472 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.000 with four. That day we were actually running with three, 473 00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:07.720 which actually kind of plays into uh when we when 474 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:10.000 we see a picture of the timeline here in a 475 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.319 couple of minutes of how the how the incident went 476 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:16.799 down time wise with it that I speak of it 477 00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:18.759 in four four and four. We were on the scene 478 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:23.119 for four minutes. May day occurred, took accountability was was 479 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.920 was declared on the scene. Now, if you listen to 480 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:28.359 so you only. 481 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.160 Have six people, you have six people on You got 482 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.720 six people there, that's what you're saying. 483 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:37.039 Well, the show is outside, right, the driver engineers outside. 484 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.519 So yeah, so we have fewer folks inside and two outside, 485 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:45.039 so you only have one line, one. 486 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.200 Line with you and and a nozzleman or not the 487 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:52.960 woman at the time, right, Yes, sis. 488 00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:55.759 How it goes with that minimum staffing when you have 489 00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:58.599 those minimum staffing levels like South Florida for some of 490 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.400 us are accustomed to, it's you gotta juggle a lot 491 00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:03.400 of things until the crews get there. 492 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:05.720 And this is the majority of the country, right, so 493 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:08.640 we are we are spoiled. 494 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:09.440 When we think figure out. 495 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:13.680 So we have NFP compliance staffing in New York City 496 00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.400 and only very few other cities and areas have that. 497 00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:20.079 So that's that's an important consideration when you think about 498 00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:22.200 this and you think about the staffing. Uh, you know, 499 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.279 for anybody who's watching and listening to this about you know, 500 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:28.240 you got to make do with what you have on scene. 501 00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:30.960 And that's exactly what he's doing and walking us through. 502 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.599 You know, I'm sure, Chief, you would have loved to 503 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.000 have thirty fire fighters on scene at that fire, but 504 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.160 the reality is that at that point in the fire, 505 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.960 he's gonna have six, and like you said, some of 506 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:47.400 them are outside. He's trying to, you know, comply with 507 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:49.680 OSHA to the degree that we that we can. 508 00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:55.960 While so there's a lot of competing concerns here. 509 00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.920 Nothing that can happen. Well, guys are gonna wear many 510 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:01.960 that something. They're going to push the limits until they 511 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.759 can get the personnel there that they really need, the 512 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.000 proper personnel there that need to get and fight that fire. 513 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.759 So did you, Chief, you want to pull up the 514 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:13.319 timeline now? 515 00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:16.920 Sure I can. I can speak on that here for 516 00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.480 a second. I think where I left off was I 517 00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:22.279 called out to the chief that was on the scene 518 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:24.240 and I asked him if we were if we were making 519 00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.079 any progress, and he came back and he said, you're 520 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:32.000 starting to make a hit on it, but you still 521 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.440 have heavy fire in the attic ridge. Vent I liken 522 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.279 that to the fact of kind of making a push 523 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.519 on an entire second floor of a house being on 524 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:44.640 fire as you're making progress and you get kind of 525 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.319 the point of what I call the point of conversion 526 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.720 is you kind of get teeter in there on the 527 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:50.559 edge of whether the fire is going to go out 528 00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:52.319 or whether you're going to make a decision to have 529 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.440 to back out. That's where I was in my brain. 530 00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.279 So along with it went from being warm to being 531 00:28:57.319 --> 00:29:01.599 hot to being uncomfortable. When he gave me the return 532 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:03.039 and said you were starting to make a hit on it, 533 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:04.880 I thought that we were at that point of conversion, 534 00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:06.480 you know, to be honest with you, was like, man, 535 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:09.400 we're right there, We're it's going to start getting better. 536 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.920 And with that was I called out on the radio 537 00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:16.200 and I said, visibility is zero. And the folks that 538 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.440 are on here know that, you know know now through 539 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.680 Project may Day that is one of the things that's 540 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:23.519 a trigger, that is something if you hear it on 541 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.400 the radio, you need to pay attention to it. So 542 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.519 with that is the tower crew that was out towards 543 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.319 the front of the house, they started noticing all the 544 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.880 exact same changes that we did, and they came and 545 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.279 as soon as they got to the doorway of the 546 00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.920 master bedroom, we now had fire blowing over us from 547 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.599 the first floor. So the origin and cause on this 548 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:50.400 fire was improperly disposed of smoking materials on the back deck. 549 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:53.160 The back deck was located off of the first floor 550 00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:57.839 on side Charlie, so it burned into the house horizontally 551 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.440 as well external on the house going up the vinyl 552 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:09.160 siding on the outside, so it came into the first 553 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.519 floor while we were on the second floor, got into overstuffed. 554 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.920 Yes, sir, yeah, let me just. 555 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.480 I'm still on the I want to pause from a 556 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:23.200 staffing issue, because what was missed is that your first 557 00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.720 alarm that would have generally been on this assignment was 558 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.319 tied up in the neighboring town on another run. So 559 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.000 that plays into the response challenge. But you know, when 560 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:39.119 we talk about mutual aid, Louden County is probably as 561 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:42.359 aggressive with automatic mutual aid as anybody in the country. 562 00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:45.759 There are parts of Loudon County where the first alarm 563 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:50.960 is coming from Maryland, Virginia and West Virginia, three states. 564 00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:52.680 And they were doing that when I was there in 565 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.720 the eighties. So it's not about it's not about they 566 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.480 don't want to staff well or they can't stand well. 567 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:05.400 And people listening to our show tonight, if you're staffing sucks, 568 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.279 then you need to look beyond what you can do 569 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:10.720 about it. They're not going to hire you fifty people tomorrow, 570 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:12.839 So what are you doing with your neighbors? What are 571 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:17.000 you doing with you with automatic mutual aid? In my area, 572 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.640 all over, departments are doing everybody's fires. I'm getting thirty 573 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:25.039 guys in about eight to ten minutes, depending, but that's 574 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:27.039 not from one fire department. So I just want the 575 00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:31.559 listeners to as the guys from Salty pointed out, they're 576 00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:34.880 only staffing for one line right now, and that's not 577 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:38.880 due to any attitudes of not wanting mutual aid. Companies 578 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:40.960 were not in the right position at the time that 579 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.599 shit happens. That's going to happen. So if I want 580 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.240 to just kind of paint that picture and also remind 581 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:51.319 people if you're staffing sucks, there are some solutions to that. 582 00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.440 And I also wanted to touch on something because I 583 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.160 was kind of trying to listen to what you were saying. 584 00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:00.279 So you said it was early on. 585 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.559 You had mentioned something like it got from the siding 586 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.720 into the attic and you thought it was above you, 587 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:09.559 and then the second floor had a room that was 588 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:11.839 on fire. But now you're saying that the fire is 589 00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:13.119 actually on the first floor. 590 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:18.240 Is that what you're saying? Yep? 591 00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:24.079 Chief, So uh, yes, sir, that's exactly what I'm saying. 592 00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:28.160 So this fire basically throughout, but you guys were on 593 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.079 the second floor and the fire was actually originated on 594 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.759 the first floor. 595 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:34.519 Tell where the fire started, Chief. 596 00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.279 So yeah, the fire started on the xterior on the 597 00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:42.160 deck which was off of the first floor. So it 598 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.319 was starting to break through apparently at the same time 599 00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:44.839 that we went. 600 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:45.480 To the second guard. 601 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:50.000 So it wasn't showing they got into the family It 602 00:32:50.119 --> 00:33:00.599 was not shown on the first floor right got in there, Yes, sir. Oh, 603 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:04.039 so fire had gotten into the family room or living 604 00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.960 room directly below us and got into over stuffed furniture 605 00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:12.200 which sent it to flash over rapidly after it got 606 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.319 in that room and started taking possession of it. So 607 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.119 there would be the view from the Charlie Delta corner. 608 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:21.759 I saw in the chat there was a three sixty 609 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.759 completed before entry, And the answer is absolutely it was not. 610 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:28.799 And that is a huge takeaway on this, whether it 611 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.759 would have changed my decision making at all on this. 612 00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:34.640 I already I already gave you all the farm, so 613 00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:36.319 to speak, because I told you my decision to go 614 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.799 inside that house was before I ever saw four three 615 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.960 two three eight metalwood court. We cannot be that way, 616 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:48.000 We just we can't. Oh, and that's where my size 617 00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:52.119 up stopped. I went from side alpha side delta, Charlie delta. 618 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.200 That's where it stopped. I had seen this fire before 619 00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.720 I had been on fires. I addressed him the exact 620 00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:02.839 same way, and I articulate that point because if it 621 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.599 sounds like I'm confident when I tell you that, it's 622 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.280 because I'm confidently complacent with exactly the way that we 623 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.920 handle this fire. Oh so I'll hit rewind here for 624 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.440 a second. 625 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.079 Go ahead, sir, I'm just gonna mention just a little 626 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.480 FYI on my part, was that's a good teaching moment, 627 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.280 at least a three sixty done. Great question. It's from 628 00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.760 the chat because if you look at some of the 629 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:29.840 ritz and may days and stuff like that and see 630 00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:32.199 what some of the elements of contributing factors, that's one 631 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:33.920 of the factors that gets lined up in there. So 632 00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:36.800 for those that will want a learning point, it's take 633 00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:38.519 that extra second. If you can get the Billity's not 634 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:40.519 too big and you can do that three sixty. It's 635 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:42.199 imperative that you make that three sixty. 636 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:43.239 You know. 637 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.760 In the chat also somebody absolutely and. 638 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:49.480 Somebody in the chat wrote. 639 00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.840 What if you're alone. I'm gonna be real respectful. You're 640 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.719 not a fire department if you're alone. If you're sending 641 00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:59.280 one person on a piece of apparatus and the community 642 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:04.800 feels that's a department, then you're just kidding yourselves. It's 643 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.519 just such a sentiment. It spot to me because we 644 00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:09.519 see if people want to cut budgets and want to 645 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:12.880 do this, at some point, you got to decide. Laven County, 646 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:15.280 the first alarm assignment with this would have been three 647 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:17.079 or four engines, two or three trucks, a couple of 648 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:21.119 They have good responses. But there are places in this country, 649 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.880 certainly Frank and I have seen it, maybe even Brandon 650 00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:27.000 and Micah that are running one person on duty, and 651 00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.480 you know what, that's a salesman. It's not a fire 652 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:33.559 fire department. And so I saw the comment, what if 653 00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:36.159 you were alone, you're going to hit it with a 654 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:36.639 deck gun. 655 00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:40.079 I meant something going in, I'll make an entry. 656 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.639 At some point, we can't do the job, that's right, Yeah, 657 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:43.320 that's true too. 658 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:44.199 Chief. 659 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.480 If you had done the three sixty and you saw, 660 00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:48.119 you know, you think you would have saw, I know, 661 00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:50.280 hindsight being twenty twenty, what would what would you have 662 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:50.920 done differently? 663 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.960 So it's not a fair question to say what would 664 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.639 have done different on this fire because I had handled 665 00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:04.719 fires like this the exact same way before, and this 666 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.039 is the one that burned me and my crew literally. 667 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:09.840 So I don't say that to be a smart ass 668 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:13.000 at all. I say that as a point that when 669 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:16.599 you cut corners you do exactly that is, you just 670 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:18.360 get in the way, which isn't. 671 00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:18.639 The right way. 672 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:19.360 Oh. 673 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.199 I would love to tell you that had I made 674 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.239 a three sixty on that house, that would have completely 675 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.599 changed everything that I did. The answer is no. Sixteen 676 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:29.960 years later, if I went on that same fire today, 677 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:32.400 or as a command officer, you know, as a deputy 678 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.840 chief in a department, you know, or as a shift 679 00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.639 commander or whatever, would I have somebody's ass for not 680 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.960 doing a three sixty or hitting it with a large 681 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.880 line on the exterior that knock down the fire before 682 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:47.960 a cruise ever went in there. The answer is absolutely yes. 683 00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:52.159 Is that's where the learning, you know, has has occurred 684 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.760 that I cannot be more transparent that the things that 685 00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:59.559 I see now if folks have completely changed, and it's 686 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.159 not because we jumped in a time machine and things changed. 687 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.159 It's because our folks have continued to change. And as 688 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:10.360 Chief Goldfeaer said earlier, is it's a cultural thing in 689 00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.280 the fire department. And unfortunately May twenty fifth, two thousand 690 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.519 and eight, was a day that started to change the 691 00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:20.000 culture for our department and for our county. 692 00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:24.400 And we are so we are so great think that's 693 00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:29.280 on here and telling us the honest story, and most 694 00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:33.400 importantly is how you've evolved to be better today than 695 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:36.480 you were more than a decade ago. Right, So that 696 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.639 is such a huge a huge takeaway here is that 697 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:44.239 we're trying to be better and learn and evolve, and 698 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:45.800 that's exactly what we did. 699 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.079 So we're super appreciative of of you being on here. 700 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:53.079 And I would advise you don't read the chat because 701 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.000 you'll lose track of your of your thoughts. 702 00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:57.840 The chat can the chat can blow up and have 703 00:37:57.880 --> 00:37:58.920 a thousand. 704 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.159 Black Oh the chat, don't go down the black hole. 705 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:03.760 Say from the rabbit hole, rabbit. 706 00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:09.000 Switch, I switch over the private chat. 707 00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:12.559 It'll just be it's just something that's important, guys. I'll 708 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:13.440 bring it up just so you know. 709 00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:17.679 But so I'm just I'm just thinking about like that. 710 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:20.280 The picture of that house. My house is very similar, 711 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:23.719 two story, has the deck and then has a walk 712 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:28.599 out for the basement in the back. There's basically in 713 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:30.920 my mind, I mean, unless there's no way I could 714 00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.199 go in there with two people with one line with 715 00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:37.280 fire that's on the first floor, it got into the 716 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:38.639 second floor, into the attic. 717 00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:41.400 There's basically there's nothing. What are you going to do there? 718 00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:44.639 Like, you can't you can't hit that with with thirty guys. 719 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.360 It's going to take two or three lines and immediately 720 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:52.119 being stretched to make any impact. So it's not it's 721 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.280 not saying anything about what you guys did. I'm not 722 00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:56.599 I'm not saying that. I'm just saying in general, I 723 00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:59.480 can't imagine stretching a line into my house and thinking 724 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.920 that I I could do something there. Like it's just 725 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:02.719 not gonna happen, you. 726 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:03.199 Know what I mean? 727 00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:06.119 Gonzo, can you get back to that first picture. 728 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:10.199 From the just one exposure? 729 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.559 Uh, there should be the one, the one with our 730 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:15.480 crew there. 731 00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:16.760 So. 732 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:20.599 I can tell you it's a twenty eight year old captain. 733 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:26.639 I wait for you in the county. That fire, that 734 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.360 fire there was go all day long to me. And 735 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.719 I don't say that, you know, trying to trying to 736 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:35.920 be in a measuring contest at all. It was. It 737 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:38.800 was just the facts of what it was. Oh and 738 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:41.559 again was the confidence or complacency, whatever you want to 739 00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.119 assign to it is We've I've been to this fire before. 740 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.280 Oh so that picture there is we are still trying 741 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:51.039 to figure out how to get out that joint after 742 00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:54.599 we called him ay Day. So I'll use that as 743 00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:59.719 I'll use that picture as a good indicator of the 744 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.960 may it was called. I think that you've got a 745 00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.559 snippet there of the actual may Day from video on 746 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:09.199 the scene. I'll give a little background then if we 747 00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:11.519 could go into that, that would be good. Uh So 748 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:15.480 with that is I left off with, I had just 749 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:18.760 called out on the radio, told him visibility was zero. 750 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:21.280 I thought that we were at that point where we 751 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.159 were just starting to maybe get a hit on it 752 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.280 to get ahead, which wasn't the case. Uh And it 753 00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.719 went from being warm to being hot to being we 754 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.159 need to get the hell out of here. The tower 755 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:37.159 crew had came and made the doorway of the second floor. 756 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:38.360 So if you want to let it play there for 757 00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.039 a second, then I'll take it. 758 00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.679 Okay, we'll play about thirty seconds of it. So here 759 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:42.960 we go. 760 00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:48.760 Okay, safety tick. 761 00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:49.039 That one. 762 00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.639 Day in the second floor, you're in there for reactivating 763 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:12.280 the one to create evacuate chunky class evacuate. 764 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:14.199 That smoke is just. 765 00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:20.000 You can't put that out with two towel added. 766 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.599 Yeah, down to cheap eleven. 767 00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:32.440 Did you copy everything? Radio craft crane all out? 768 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:33.519 Okay? 769 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.159 So chief, now what are you seeing when this is going? 770 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:43.440 So just prior total black, absolute total black. 771 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:44.400 Uh. 772 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.760 And it was literally four years after this, excuse me, 773 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:50.000 six years after this when we went in a flashover 774 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:51.800 can for the third time that I've ever been in 775 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.360 a flashover can for training. Is I had a thermal 776 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.320 imager with me that third time that I went in, 777 00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:02.760 and I was able to but connect what I was 778 00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.880 seeing or not seen at Metalwood Court to what I 779 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.840 saw in that flashover can. And that is what's called blackfire. 780 00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:12.360 And that was the fingers coming through the smoke that 781 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:14.559 was burning in the room that we were in. So 782 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:18.039 with that being said, is it went in my brain. 783 00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:21.000 When that m word may day popped into my head. 784 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:24.159 There was no waiting to call may day. It was 785 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.480 I know that we've got fire below us were stuck. 786 00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:31.800 Tried to call mayde and I couldn't. I couldn't because 787 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:34.039 I carried my radio on the outside of my gear. 788 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:38.920 The interface on where the lapel mic connected into the 789 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.920 side of the radio had melted, burned clear away. And 790 00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:44.039 the reason why I couldn't transmit a may Day is 791 00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:46.159 because my fingers melted into my lapel mic. 792 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:47.039 Oh my god. 793 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:50.320 So I don't say that to dramatize things. I say 794 00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:58.719 that because hey, my radio wasn't working. Well, my radio 795 00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.000 would have worked if I would have reached down and 796 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:03.400 actually squeezed the button on the side of the radio. 797 00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:06.440 Is that's another training point. Wherever you push the push 798 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.599 to talk on your radio, whether you got to lapel 799 00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:10.639 my cooked up to it or not, is where that 800 00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.000 thing opens up. If I would have keyed it up 801 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.960 actually on the box itself, guess what it would have happened. 802 00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:17.760 It would have worked. I would have been able to 803 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:22.119 transmit a may Day. But what happens training wise with that, Well, 804 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.239 I couldn't do it. So what did I do. I 805 00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.599 told Jack to call may Day and guess what he did. 806 00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:29.679 It wasn't by policy, it wasn't perfect, but you know 807 00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:32.840 what he transmitted it It was acknowledged and they started 808 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:36.000 deploying resources. So that is a win in my brain 809 00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:38.719 on exactly how to address that situation. 810 00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:39.800 So at that. 811 00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:43.119 Point, we made it to Brandy and I stretched to 812 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.679 the top of the stairs. It took me two weeks 813 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:48.360 after the fact to remember what I saw or what 814 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:51.559 I felt at the top of those stairs. Well, what 815 00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:55.440 I felt was burning, but what I saw was orange. 816 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:57.159 That was it. It was like our head was in 817 00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:00.000 a jet engine with fire blowing past us, coming up 818 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:03.519 these stairs. So Brandy tells me, well, actually, before I 819 00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:05.159 get ahead of myself, do you know what we've heard. 820 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:08.159 We've heard nothing, nothing at all, no federal cues. I 821 00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.400 could barely hear myself talk. Well, if I can barely 822 00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.840 hear myself talk, it's not just the normal, you know, 823 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.679 muffled face piece. You all saw the picture there of 824 00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:20.960 how thick that smoke was coming out of that house, 825 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:24.840 How black, how dark? You know, how thick that stuff is. 826 00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:30.159 That's an indicator on the inside of a fire. If 827 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:34.039 you can't hear your partner, right. Besides, you smoke burns, right, 828 00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:36.280 that's a concern. We need to be aware of that. 829 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:41.280 So Brandy tells me I don't have any water, and 830 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:44.920 I'm thinking to myself, pan is the way that you play? 831 00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:49.159 That's just that is what it is. And I went 832 00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:52.039 into survival officer mood. She told me she didn't have 833 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.760 a water. What am I thinking? I'm thinking that because 834 00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:58.039 of how stressful this situation is. Something as simple as 835 00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:01.239 pull to open and close that wasn't a thing. So 836 00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:04.039 you know what, I took the line from her. I 837 00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.360 opened it up, It goes limp. I close it, it 838 00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:09.079 goes semi rigid, well ten feet back from the nozzle. 839 00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:12.239 Our hose almost burned completely in half in that amount 840 00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:18.280 of time. So that's where you talk about training is 841 00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:25.480 day one bengeon company operations? What do they tell you? 842 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:27.280 Once you're on that line, you don't put it down. 843 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.480 So we had to abandon the line because we're burning 844 00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:32.760 above the fire and it's doing nothing for us. So 845 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:35.599 that umbilical cord that's connected to moms sitting out on 846 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.280 the street, you know, with that hose met up with 847 00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:44.239 Jack didn't have any contact at all with Bones. Bones 848 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.280 is Lieutenant Early, which was the tower officer. 849 00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:52.679 So one second, you would Brandy together, who's Jack? 850 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:56.159 So Jack was the firefighter on the tower. He was 851 00:45:56.199 --> 00:46:00.920 the backstep firefighter on the tower. Normally when I tell 852 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:02.599 this story, I give all the names at the at 853 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:04.800 the beginning, I apologize. I need to have like a 854 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.800 spreadsheet here to go off through all this stuff. 855 00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:12.840 So, oh my god, wow. 856 00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:15.079 So where are you right now? 857 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:21.480 Lose them? 858 00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:23.599 His signal has been cutting in and out. 859 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:25.400 Micah, So can you guys hear me. 860 00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:28.360 On and off? 861 00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:35.280 Yeah, signal keep coming in and out, all right, check 862 00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.840 check out me. It was okay, I think as you're 863 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.920 in it, it's a little gammed up. Excuse you with 864 00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:41.440 the AOL. 865 00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:42.400 Can you hear me? 866 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:42.719 Now? 867 00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:43.679 Got you out? 868 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:48.239 All right? So try to transmit a may day. Get 869 00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.559 to the top of the stairs. Don't have any water. 870 00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.599 Throw our hose line down. We make it back. Brady 871 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.639 and I make it back to outside the master bedroom. Jack, 872 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.000 the firefighter from the tower, is outside. We're making contact 873 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:04.599 with him literally verbally. Can't see anything whatsoever. No contact 874 00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:09.199 with Lieutendant Early, which was the tower officer. So what's 875 00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:14.880 going through our mind. Why why is bones noting answering? Well, 876 00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.840 he's not answering because he's dead. That's exactly what went 877 00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:21.840 went through our heads is you know the reason he's 878 00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.880 not answering is because he's dead. He is overrun by fire, 879 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.159 just like we are. But I will tell everybody that's 880 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:32.000 on this podcast that I believe in training, because if 881 00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:34.800 you train the right way, it will not fail you. 882 00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:39.719 I it just won't. Oh, I switched into survival mode. 883 00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:42.679 The first thing that I recognized other I told Brandy 884 00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:43.920 to get a hold of me and not let go. 885 00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.960 She got a hold of my waist strap on my SCBA, 886 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.960 and I wanted tactile contact with her. It's just I 887 00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:54.400 knew the experienced level Jack was used to operating on 888 00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:59.199 a truck, you know, without a line, with unassisted searches. 889 00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:01.440 You know, he was used to that. So I'm good 890 00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:05.199 maintaining contact with him verbally or yelling at him and 891 00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.440 you can barely hear it. But the first thing that 892 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:11.440 I noticed was how fast I was breathing. And this 893 00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:14.239 is where I can The first thing that I corrected 894 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.519 was my breathing is I knew that I needed as 895 00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:19.519 much air as what I had in my cylinder. Well, 896 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:21.800 secondary to that, I wondered how many more times I 897 00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:23.119 was going to be able to breathe that air out 898 00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:24.920 of my cylinder because it was hot air that was 899 00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:28.320 coming into my face piece. Then third to that, I 900 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:30.920 don't say this to dramatize this, this is the reality 901 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:33.440 of it. I was already making preparations of what I 902 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.239 was going to do with my face piece melted off. 903 00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:39.599 So it didn't I think that I was going to die. Yep, 904 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:42.840 sure did. But a good motivator is having people with 905 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:49.519 you that's screaming, and that's just the fact of what 906 00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:53.320 it is. And it was my job to get him out. 907 00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.320 So that's what we did. So it went from the 908 00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:02.440 center of the house toward side. Bravo. First door that 909 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:07.079 I came to was an inward swinging door. Couldn't see anything. 910 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:11.599 We're burning, and my hands slide across the floor. I 911 00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:15.480 recognized that I was either on linoleum or I transitioned 912 00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:18.760 from carpet onto a slick, slick surface inward swinging door. 913 00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:21.519 Where do inward swinging doors go in your house? Generally 914 00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:25.800 somewhere where they can be occupied, right, So my hands 915 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.440 slid across the floor as tywer linoleum. Where am I? 916 00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:30.960 I'm in the bathroom. I'm in a bathroom off of 917 00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:36.039 a hallway. How big are bathrooms off of hallways? Generally 918 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:39.239 not very big. I was in that bathroom long enough 919 00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:41.599 for me to recognize that and turn around and come 920 00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:46.679 right back out. I couldn't explain it to you that day, 921 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.920 but in training you pick up on these things. So 922 00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.199 kept going towards side. Bravo. We make it inside a 923 00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:58.920 secondary bedroom, towards side, bravo. No windows on the front 924 00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:04.039 side or the side of this, you know, of this bedroom. 925 00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:07.199 When Jack came through the door, it was me the brandy, 926 00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:09.480 then Jack. When Jack made it through the door, Jack 927 00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:11.800 closed the door. This was two thousand and eight, mind you, 928 00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:14.480 this is when we were still punching out windows, you know, 929 00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.800 on structure fires, because that's what we did because the 930 00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:22.519 change to survive the building profile for anybody that was 931 00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:28.559 stuck inside that house. Right right. So with that being said, 932 00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:32.039 is we didn't talk about flow pass. We didn't really 933 00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:34.440 do reco vs. We didn't do any of that shit. 934 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.159 We didn't recognize it. You know, we didn't have all 935 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:39.800 the science that we have now. But what did Jack 936 00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:42.000 do when he came through that door, he closed the door. 937 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:45.119 So what did that do? That compartmentalized where we were. 938 00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:47.239 Stuff that was on fire stayed on fire, but it 939 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.920 kept additional heat and fire from coming in on top 940 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:55.800 of us. So inside that bedroom we end up, you know, 941 00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:59.400 I'm scraping the wall trying to find windows, ended up 942 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:04.039 hearing glass window was taken out onside Charlie. That ladder 943 00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:07.760 was thrown by my engine driver. He threw the ladder 944 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:11.360 long enough for it to punch the window. Then he 945 00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:14.400 went back to help the tower driver throw more ladders. 946 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:19.079 So with that is we go out through the window, 947 00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:23.440 make it down, make it outside. I'm trying to cut 948 00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:26.079 down some of the story here. I apologize, but make 949 00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:28.519 it aroundside Alpha and I look back at this house 950 00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:31.559 and it's one hundred percent involved, you know, at this point, 951 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:33.880 and I'm like, what the hell did I miss? You know, 952 00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:35.880 is it's not like we were in there for twenty 953 00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:38.119 minutes fighting fire, you know, or a half hour. It 954 00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:43.119 just wasn't. And somebody came past and I said, bones 955 00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.039 are still in there, which is Lieutenant earlier. I said 956 00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:47.199 bones are still in there. They said, no, bones is 957 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:49.840 over there. So let's talk about bones for a second. 958 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:54.719 Right towards the end to win that video was stopped. 959 00:51:55.480 --> 00:52:01.960 Is you hear the chief on the radio, he says, Evacuate, 960 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:04.719 structural collapse in the rear. Evacuate. He says that over 961 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:09.320 the radio, we hadn't made a trust system. Ends up 962 00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.679 coming down inside this master bedroom, which actually separated Lieutenant 963 00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:17.280 Early from myself, Brandy and Jack. So Buns ends up 964 00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:21.880 going into a master bathroom, closes the door. He's taking 965 00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:25.800 baseball swings with his four foot d handle Boston Rate 966 00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:28.400 trying to bust out these four by four windows that 967 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:31.800 are around a garden tub. Well, these windows don't open. 968 00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.199 They don't open up and down. They're not casement, they 969 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.480 don't open side to side, none of that. Well, you 970 00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:39.519 come to find out these these windows were made out 971 00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:42.719 of what's called hurricue light glass. It is a laminated 972 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:45.239 type glass. Is the safety glass. It's similar to what 973 00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:47.840 they put in cockpits of aircraft. Why the hell would 974 00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:51.039 anybody put this in their house? Well, safety, they're not 975 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:54.039 thinking about firefighters. If I'm getting in the garden tub 976 00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:56.480 and I've had a couple of chardonnay and I slip 977 00:52:56.519 --> 00:53:02.880 and I put my arm over end of the glass. 978 00:53:03.079 --> 00:53:05.360 My arm's not going through it. So it's a thing. 979 00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:08.000 It's a safety thing, right, It's a safety thing that 980 00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:10.239 we know about now that I didn't know about. Then 981 00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:13.639 he displaced that thing two or three inches clear out 982 00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.440 of the frame and couldn't fracture it, couldn't get out. 983 00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:19.440 He dropped to the floor to die until he thought 984 00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:22.000 about his family. He would tell you the same thing 985 00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:23.840 if he was sitting right here beside me right now. 986 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.199 That was his motivation to get up off the floor 987 00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:28.960 and give it one last shot. He opened up the door, 988 00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:33.079 he used his get this thermal imager, looked for the 989 00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:38.039 coolest spot in the room, which he figured was a window. 990 00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:41.599 And you know what he was right. He goes head 991 00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:50.639 first running through this window, head first, goes out three 992 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:53.840 stories down to the ground into the woods out back 993 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:56.440 in front of Engine eighteen's crew that had just stretched 994 00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.760 to the line aroundside. Charlie hadn't gotten water yet, lands 995 00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:03.440 right in front of them on fire, so they're putting 996 00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:05.760 him out with hing point here is remember that window 997 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:08.079 that I talked about at the beginning, that I took 998 00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:10.320 the time to rake all the glass out and take 999 00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:13.639 the sash and everything out. If you ever wonder why 1000 00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:17.320 that's the window that he ended up going out unobstructed. 1001 00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:20.239 He didn't have to stop messing around with the window. 1002 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:24.320 He went headfirst out that window. So they dragged him 1003 00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:29.519 around inside Charlie sid Delta side Alpha, and they told me, 1004 00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:31.400 they said, hey, bones is over there, and I had 1005 00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:35.719 to see it for myself, and I heard him before 1006 00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:43.760 I ever saw him. But that meant to things, meant 1007 00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:47.000 that he had an airway and he was alive. Those 1008 00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:49.440 were a whole lot better in my brain than being dead. 1009 00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:54.280 So insert three months later, most of us were back 1010 00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:56.280 to work, well half of us were back enter after 1011 00:54:56.440 --> 00:55:02.079 multiple grafting surgeries. And you know what, he got retired 1012 00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:06.079 because of his injuries from Metalwood Court. You know what 1013 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:08.440 we have to show for that today? You know what 1014 00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:10.760 they did with the house after they investigated, They knocked 1015 00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:12.960 the damn thing down. Then they rebuilt it back on 1016 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.559 the exact same foundation. Wow, we had nothing to show 1017 00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:20.320 for almost killing four of us inside that house because 1018 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:23.360 the decision was made before I ever got to that house. 1019 00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:27.320 So I can't speak enough on this subject. And with 1020 00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:32.360 Chief Goldfeder calling, you know this morning to see if 1021 00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:36.599 I was interested. You all often hopefully see my passion. 1022 00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:39.440 And you know, I'm not telling you we did everything 1023 00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.159 right on this call, but I'm telling you that there's 1024 00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.280 a lot to learn from here. That this book it's 1025 00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:49.440 fun to save somebody's life. And that's I can't articulate 1026 00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:50.679 it any further than that. 1027 00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:56.480 Chief, What was the time frame from the time that 1028 00:55:57.320 --> 00:55:59.639 shit went sideways till the time that you guys came 1029 00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:00.400 out that window? 1030 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:05.159 So it was four minutes. Uh, it's there's a few 1031 00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:09.480 seconds here here or there with it, but it was 1032 00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:11.840 about four minutes after the May Day is when we 1033 00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:12.800 finally made it out. 1034 00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.760 That's a long time, man, is Yeah, it seemed. 1035 00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:18.920 A lot longer than that, I can assure you. 1036 00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:23.599 Yeah, So what what were to take what we what 1037 00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:24.480 were the takeaways? 1038 00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:25.719 Like, what did you feel? 1039 00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:27.079 What it all over the place? 1040 00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:32.920 I know it was it was several. There's several takeaways, yep. 1041 00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:36.760 So some of the takeaways. Uh, yeah, there's there's a 1042 00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:39.880 whole bunch from it. But I'll start with accountability. Is 1043 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:41.880 that's one of the pieces that I talked about. Listening 1044 00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:44.199 to the radio traffic with it, You'll be like, I 1045 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.119 don't know what he's talking about with this four four 1046 00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:50.280 and four. Well, because the times don't match up with 1047 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.760 where my brain was, with what I remember as stuff. 1048 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.880 I remember looking at the safety officer at a specific time. 1049 00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.559 Then I remember him talking on the radio, so I 1050 00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.320 know because I was there, that we were all out 1051 00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:03.599 at that point. Well, it was after that when they 1052 00:57:03.599 --> 00:57:07.119 got on the radio and said, you've got firefighters jumping outside, Charlie, 1053 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.639 you know, out to the rear, all these different things, 1054 00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:13.119 and we were already out at that point. And with 1055 00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:20.599 that is they went for the longest time thinking that 1056 00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:23.840 we had a firefighter that was missing. And this is 1057 00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:26.320 one of the biggest points to make out of all 1058 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.639 this is would I make a decision to put a 1059 00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:32.920 brother or sister in house? The answer is, you damn right, 1060 00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.480 I will, because I am That's exactly what I would 1061 00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:39.280 want to do if I was in that situation. So 1062 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:44.199 with that being said, is accountability matters all the time. 1063 00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.159 It really really matters in these types of situations. Because 1064 00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:49.639 we thought that a fourth person or excuse me, the 1065 00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:53.400 fourth on the tower was missing, when in fact they weren't. 1066 00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:56.960 We only had three and they were starting to deploy 1067 00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.239 additional rit teams and stuff inside to look for a 1068 00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:03.159 firefighter that that just wasn't there. Uh So they actually 1069 00:58:03.239 --> 00:58:05.440 were able to figure it out once they got off 1070 00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:12.199 our passport accountability uh tags to the command posts and 1071 00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:14.880 they started checking people off and determined that, oh man, 1072 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:18.679 they're they're at minimum staffing today, so we're good and 1073 00:58:18.679 --> 00:58:21.719 and they got full accountability of all of us. So 1074 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:22.880 that's one of the big ones. 1075 00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:24.079 Uh well, three. 1076 00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:27.800 Sixty I can't hit enough on that is whether it 1077 00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:31.559 would have changed my decision or not. Go ahead. I'm 1078 00:58:31.599 --> 00:58:33.880 sorry saying something. 1079 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:39.000 The accountability part that's kind of that's that's after things 1080 00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:39.679 have gone bad. 1081 00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:42.760 I was trying to to key in on, like if you. 1082 00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:46.159 Want to try and have guys in the future who 1083 00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:49.480 are fighting something similar to this, you know what, what 1084 00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:51.800 would you say, like from the from the get go 1085 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:55.519 that what were the takeaways like after they looked at 1086 00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:58.920 the fire like what what things that they said you 1087 00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:01.559 could have done, should have done, didn't do? You know 1088 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:03.880 those types of things that you know those guys will 1089 00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:04.719 know for the future. 1090 00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:05.480 You know what I mean. 1091 00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:12.320 Sure is to kind of summarize very quickly, is three 1092 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.320 sixty whether you want to do it or not, we 1093 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:19.239 now have a policy that you shall it is whether 1094 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:22.199 you can agree with policy not agree with policy. That 1095 00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.159 was a cultural change that we made. You have to 1096 00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:29.239 view all sides before you go into the structure that is. 1097 00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:33.480 That is a rule unless you're in a known rescue situation. 1098 00:59:33.559 --> 00:59:35.119 When you get there, you better hear it on the 1099 00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:38.480 radio for folks to hit and agreed, disagree with whatever. 1100 00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:41.039 But you know what, our folks know that that is 1101 00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:43.440 a checkbox that they have to hit before they can 1102 00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:47.880 go inside. I think the you know, the big T word, 1103 00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:50.760 the transitional fire attack, even though transitional is not really 1104 00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:54.119 a mode, is will our folks pull up on a 1105 00:59:54.159 --> 00:59:56.840 structural fire like this, whether they're fully staffed or not, 1106 00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:00.559 and take a big line around side Charles and knock 1107 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:04.320 it down for thirty sixty seconds and eliminate your problem, 1108 01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:06.960 you know, and make it safer, you know, to reset 1109 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:08.960 the fire? Is that a thing now? Absolutely? 1110 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.320 It is. 1111 01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:11.960 You know, if if we would have started on the 1112 01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:14.639 back of that house, you know, hitting it from the outside, 1113 01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:17.679 you all wouldn't listen to me tonight verbally flagelate. 1114 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:22.559 You know, that's pretty good on your show. 1115 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:25.320 So because it would have been enoughing fired to be 1116 01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:27.960 honest with you, and that's that is just the fact 1117 01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:31.599 of it is just the fact of what it is. Oh, 1118 01:00:31.960 --> 01:00:34.800 you know, as many as many takeaways as there are 1119 01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:38.559 from this and against I know the book I think 1120 01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:43.320 articulates it very well, the points in it. But the 1121 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:47.440 facts are that for every one thing that went wrong 1122 01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:51.000 on this incident, two things went right. And I think 1123 01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:53.760 that you can you have to focus on the things 1124 01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:57.199 that you can learn. Because after this incident, the first 1125 01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.159 time that I ever gave a presentation on it was 1126 01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:02.360 in Fairfax, kunt Virginia to an officer development school. They said, hey, 1127 01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:04.800 can you put some you know, can you tell us 1128 01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:07.480 about your fire. I started off with literally, you know, 1129 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:11.079 four power point slides, you know, in a bulleted list 1130 01:01:11.119 --> 01:01:13.280 that I had jotted down, like on a napkin or 1131 01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:15.760 something to talk to these folks about. But it's morphed 1132 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:19.920 into a four hour presentation now because of the things 1133 01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:26.599 to learn. And I dedicated myself on the front end 1134 01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:29.239 of all this thing that I would do my best 1135 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.000 to try to pass this information on as much as 1136 01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:34.960 I could as long as the information was still relevant. 1137 01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:37.480 And you know what, I haven't worked myself out of 1138 01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:41.000 a job yet because there's always there. It's the same 1139 01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:44.199 stuff that you see all the time. And you know, 1140 01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:46.599 I hate to be blunt with that, but that's just 1141 01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:48.039 the fact of what it is. 1142 01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:48.159 Is. 1143 01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.360 I wish that I didn't have to teach about this 1144 01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:54.559 fire anymore because we were perfect. But we are some 1145 01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:57.119 hard headed bastards in the fire department, and you know 1146 01:01:57.159 --> 01:02:00.599 what is sometimes it just takes hearing it from the 1147 01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:04.800 right person to man that sounds like me, and I 1148 01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:07.559 hope that folks take that to heart. So that's that's 1149 01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:08.480 some of the big ones for. 1150 01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:11.239 Me, you know, Michael. One of the things we tried 1151 01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:13.159 to do when and I think we shared this the 1152 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:15.079 last time we were on with the guys Who'm getting 1153 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:18.679 salty is to identify fires that most firefighters are going 1154 01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:21.480 to go to. And I would argue that other than 1155 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:28.000 maybe in some cornfields or something, every firefighter in America 1156 01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.280 has these houses. If there's a new construction in your 1157 01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:34.480 area in the last thirty years, you have these three 1158 01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:38.400 four thousand square foot lightweight would trust basically pieces of shit. 1159 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:40.480 They're dangerous before they catch fire. 1160 01:02:41.119 --> 01:02:45.719 So everybody, you know what you said too, Chief, Like 1161 01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:47.639 you said for everything you did wrong, you did four 1162 01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.480 things right. And I'm sure there was a time that 1163 01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:52.440 you might have beat yourself up for doing some things. 1164 01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:55.000 But as I'm listening to your story, I'm still listen. 1165 01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:58.719 I'm listening to your training come through, like, because you 1166 01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:00.679 should be proud of that, Like the fact that you 1167 01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:03.360 knew has to float on your breathing, you knew that 1168 01:03:03.400 --> 01:03:05.760 she should grab onto the fact there's things that came 1169 01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:09.119 through from your training that probably saved your lives. So 1170 01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:10.079 you should be proud of that. 1171 01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:14.360 You know, he won't say it, but he received the 1172 01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:17.280 Silver Medal of Valor for saving that cruise life. 1173 01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:18.400 Yep, and he should have. 1174 01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:21.039 Like I said, it comes through, the training comes through, man, 1175 01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:24.480 And I kudos for you, man, you did a great job. 1176 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:26.159 Yeah. 1177 01:03:26.239 --> 01:03:27.960 So I have so many I have so many points 1178 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.719 I want to talk to talk about on this fire. 1179 01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:33.079 Is full? 1180 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:37.320 But can you where where is everybody today with their injuries? 1181 01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:40.599 You know, with more than a decade past that? So 1182 01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:42.599 tell us a little bit about that and explain this 1183 01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:43.599 picture to us as well. 1184 01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:45.480 Sure. 1185 01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.519 So a point that uh that I'll hit here that 1186 01:03:50.719 --> 01:03:53.800 I find interesting is that you never want to become 1187 01:03:53.800 --> 01:03:56.880 a statistic, right, But I can also validate that some 1188 01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:00.880 of the things on Project may Day are very valid. 1189 01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:04.000 You know, from a front row seat is where I 1190 01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:09.639 hit earlier on you know, we're above the fire or 1191 01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:13.159 visibility is zero. You know these triggers. Those two gentlemen 1192 01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:15.320 that you see stand on the left hand side of 1193 01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:19.920 that picture, we're both drivers for my station, but both 1194 01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:22.840 of them were assigned to the opposite shift because what 1195 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.320 is one thing that happens with may Day's you don't 1196 01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:33.000 have the usual crew working interestingly enough, that was us 1197 01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:35.920 that day, or you don't have your normal staffing that 1198 01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:39.400 was us that day. So technician the oder standing there 1199 01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:42.000 on the left, Technician Dave Allen in the blue shirt, 1200 01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:45.000 second in from the left. Both of those guys still 1201 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.480 work with the Fire depart Dave Allen, you know the 1202 01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:49.920 guy in the blue shirt there on the left, he's 1203 01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:55.480 actually assigned in our Internet or information technology system of 1204 01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:58.000 section within our fire department. 1205 01:04:58.119 --> 01:04:58.360 Now. 1206 01:04:59.199 --> 01:05:01.880 Jack Shingleton, the one in the sunglasses there in the center, 1207 01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:06.760 he was the backstep firefighter on the tower that day. 1208 01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:10.719 You know he's he's a technician now, which is a 1209 01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:16.360 heavy apparatus driver as well of you know Lieutenant John 1210 01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:19.760 bones Early, he's the one that's standing there with the 1211 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:28.559 wraps on him. Is he sometimes when you say that 1212 01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:32.639 people go through things, is I think that, as terrible 1213 01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:35.920 as this sounds, is out of all of us standing 1214 01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:38.840 in that picture, that is the one that dude is 1215 01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:44.960 a fireman's fireman through and through. Oh, he spent three 1216 01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.320 months in the Burn Center. That's actually the picture of 1217 01:05:47.360 --> 01:05:50.199 the day that we picked him up to bring him home. 1218 01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:54.800 Three months in the Burn Center, multiple grafting surgeries, and 1219 01:05:55.079 --> 01:05:58.199 now he got medically retired because of his injuries at 1220 01:05:58.239 --> 01:06:01.320 Metalwood Court. But you know what, that dudes alive because 1221 01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:02.440 his training worked. 1222 01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:03.280 Oh. 1223 01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.360 Then of course the good looking dude over on the 1224 01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:08.840 right hand side, this short guy that's me Then, Uh, 1225 01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:18.119 that's a Brandy Eisman. Was Brandy Laypole in this pick? Sure? Uh? 1226 01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:21.360 You know three three kids since then, she's actually a 1227 01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:27.280 lieutenant in our department. That chick is she's solid. She 1228 01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:29.840 is assigned to one of the busiest engines in the county. 1229 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:33.360 And you know at Metalwood Court that is that is 1230 01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:35.239 a tough chick that will have your back. 1231 01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:35.480 Man. 1232 01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:40.280 Oh, I can't speak enough for you know, the folks 1233 01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:42.920 that I went through that experience with. I wouldn't say 1234 01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:45.440 that I would hand pick him. But you know what 1235 01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:48.000 is that is the best hand that I could have 1236 01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:50.239 had that day to make it through that damn experience. 1237 01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:54.679 But you know, to say that these folks made lemonade 1238 01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:57.119 out of lemons, that that's probably a good way to 1239 01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:05.199 put it. Is everyone has made positive rides since that day. 1240 01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:09.840 Everybody has their their own way that they tell the story. 1241 01:07:10.440 --> 01:07:10.679 Uh. 1242 01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:13.840 And interestingly enough is I went through a part of 1243 01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:16.719 one of my law enforcement classes for the fire marshal stuff, 1244 01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:20.639 uh crisis intervention team training, and we were talking about 1245 01:07:20.679 --> 01:07:22.360 this and a guy looked at me and said, well, 1246 01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:24.239 you know, I don't see you know, a whole lot 1247 01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:26.719 of scars you know, from your from from this incident. 1248 01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:28.840 And I said, brother, I said, my scars are on 1249 01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:33.239 the inside. And that is something that I know that 1250 01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:36.000 a lot of folks in the fire service, whether it's 1251 01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:39.639 behavioral health or whether it's actual you know, just remembering things, 1252 01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:42.320 or whether it's actual outward injuries, all of us have 1253 01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:45.119 at some point, uh that you know is a big 1254 01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:49.519 takeaway from this incident as well. Yeah, I'll tell you 1255 01:07:49.639 --> 01:07:51.599 I'm gonna a couple of a couple of points. 1256 01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:55.639 I want to quickly highlight uh that you mentioned we 1257 01:07:55.760 --> 01:08:00.039 had nothing to show and lost almost four members a 1258 01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:02.360 couple of months later when we knocked it down and 1259 01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:07.000 built a new structure right on its place. The impact 1260 01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:09.239 of the direction of the door where it leads to 1261 01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:11.599 how important that is for us to know. 1262 01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:15.800 You're worrying about your face piece melting. 1263 01:08:16.119 --> 01:08:19.479 And I think about the Pennsylvania Fire Academy, which is 1264 01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:21.720 one of the fires that's in the book, and we've 1265 01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:24.960 now seen that the change in that if you have 1266 01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:27.960 it's very different if you have an impact failure of 1267 01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:29.960 your s CBA face piece or if you have a 1268 01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.960 face piece melting. We used to just say cover the area, 1269 01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:36.079 and we've learned now that if you cover the if 1270 01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:38.239 you cover the area or put your hand over it, 1271 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:43.920 you're basically gonna wipe away the polycarbonate and visit, you're 1272 01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:44.439 gonna make. 1273 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:48.520 Yourself breathing worse. So you're gonna make it worse. 1274 01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:53.760 I think about you mentioned understanding black fire volume, velocity, density, 1275 01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:56.439 color of fire, the importance of that, and understanding that 1276 01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:59.439 we are close to a flashover, we are close to 1277 01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:03.640 order a ignition. You know, all of these different things 1278 01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:07.560 that it's just missing the right mixture, and that black 1279 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:11.039 fire isn't a you won't see the flame, but once it. 1280 01:09:10.960 --> 01:09:13.439 Gets the right mixture of oxygen, it's gonna light off. 1281 01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:17.840 Understanding that you mentioned the lady on the outside and 1282 01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:22.960 the radio, we know that the radio straps, the those 1283 01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:25.239 electronics are some of the weakest link in ours in 1284 01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:28.079 our equipment, So having them protected by a bunking gear, 1285 01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:32.159 how important that is. The thermoaning camera. Back in two 1286 01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:33.840 thousand and eight, we didn't always take it off for 1287 01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:36.880 the rig. Today you're negligent if you don't take it 1288 01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:39.399 off the rig in a structural fire, and there's so 1289 01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:44.039 many and knowing that, how we train with that. You 1290 01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:47.399 barely mentioned even the ceiling height as another factor. We 1291 01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:49.600 saw a fire at the front door in an area 1292 01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:52.520 that had a very fall ceiling there in one of 1293 01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:55.239 the pitches. We saw on the side of the siding 1294 01:09:55.920 --> 01:09:58.119 what looked like smoke that would have been from the 1295 01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:01.439 area of the trust lock for the first and second floor. 1296 01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:05.119 I think about, you know the importance of the three sixties. 1297 01:10:05.199 --> 01:10:08.159 Somebody put this in the chat about what else are 1298 01:10:08.159 --> 01:10:09.079 we going to gain from that? 1299 01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:09.560 From that? 1300 01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:12.880 Seeing that other side and we're gonna first off, we're 1301 01:10:12.920 --> 01:10:15.079 gonna we may see where the actual fire started, the 1302 01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:19.319 fire location, an alternate an alternate access point. We may 1303 01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:22.760 see victims locate a victim location. We may see the 1304 01:10:22.760 --> 01:10:24.720 height difference. It could be two stories in the front 1305 01:10:24.760 --> 01:10:26.800 and three stories in the back. We're to walk out, 1306 01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:28.760 and how important that is. We could see if the 1307 01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:32.680 fire started below us. Sometimes we can't see that from 1308 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:36.680 the from the side. I said, my my sheet of 1309 01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:41.840 paper is full of information, of notes that I took tonight, 1310 01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:45.000 and I had already known so much about this fire 1311 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.920 from interacting with your story and from this book. So 1312 01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:51.600 I really I can't thank you enough for coming on 1313 01:10:51.680 --> 01:10:54.640 here and being honest and thank god it was a 1314 01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:57.439 close call and not aligned to do to death, because 1315 01:10:57.560 --> 01:11:02.319 that is boy the Swiss Cheese was close to lineing 1316 01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:05.960 up and the training and it was mentioned right, don't 1317 01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:09.279 let anybody short change your training. It's so important that 1318 01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:12.800 we stay current and everybody's got these structures in their area. 1319 01:11:12.880 --> 01:11:16.760 So again, thank you for being on here tonight. 1320 01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:19.199 Think you know what of the guys said thank you to. 1321 01:11:19.399 --> 01:11:25.039 One of the guys said that the organization changed because 1322 01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:28.560 we see so many incidents like this where they go 1323 01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:32.479 back to business the same way. And credit to Chief 1324 01:11:32.600 --> 01:11:35.840 Keith Brower at the time, who was leading it, and 1325 01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:39.520 literally it changed the department and that's a good thing, 1326 01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:48.319 thank god it did. Thanks for being with us tonight, Micah. 1327 01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:48.319 Yes, thank you, thank you all. 1328 01:11:50.439 --> 01:11:52.520 I can mute myself. Thank you, Chief, appreciate you. 1329 01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:52.880 Coming on. 1330 01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:56.920 All right, Brandon, you've been on deck circle. 1331 01:11:56.960 --> 01:11:59.760 You ready? I think he was itching. 1332 01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:05.840 See he's ready so long if you want to stood up, yeah, 1333 01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:06.560 I'll set him up. 1334 01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:10.920 So chapter seven was was written by Brandon Corey and 1335 01:12:11.399 --> 01:12:13.359 I met him a couple of years ago at a 1336 01:12:13.359 --> 01:12:16.479 fire conference and he had presented his story. I missed it, 1337 01:12:17.279 --> 01:12:19.279 but a couple of people came up to me and said, 1338 01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:21.680 he's a guy you gotta meet. You got to hear 1339 01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:24.279 his story. So I basically got a one on one 1340 01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:29.560 of course about that fire and about his friend Ben. 1341 01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:30.800 Uh. 1342 01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:35.680 And since since I met Brandon, I have I have 1343 01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:38.720 met his dad, who's in the fire department. 1344 01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:44.439 I have also met Ben, his friend. I've met his 1345 01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:47.560 dad and his and his mom. 1346 01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:56.399 I've Ron is Ben's father, uh And I also met 1347 01:12:56.439 --> 01:13:00.880 his mother recently at the at the fire at the 1348 01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:04.399 they were there at the Memorial Weekend, and it's important 1349 01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:08.840 to point out that this fire was in twenty twenty 1350 01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:13.239 and after their twenty three year old son, who was 1351 01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:15.880 a captain in their fire department, was killed in. 1352 01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:16.520 The line of duty. 1353 01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:19.359 Their son was honored at the National form fire by 1354 01:13:19.359 --> 01:13:22.640 the Memorial Weekend, and when I met them, they were 1355 01:13:22.640 --> 01:13:27.319 there to help out new families that are coming on 1356 01:13:27.479 --> 01:13:33.079 being part of Memorial Weekend, and it's just it's just 1357 01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:39.000 remarkable the generational impact. And at the time, his sister, Tory, 1358 01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:45.359 was in the volunteer department and Ben's mom is Caller Caller, 1359 01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:50.279 I've got the name for a minute there, And because 1360 01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:53.279 meeting them was pretty emotional for me in what they've 1361 01:13:53.319 --> 01:13:55.119 gone through and what they continue to do. 1362 01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:57.920 I couldn't even imagine losing. 1363 01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:02.760 Your child at twenty three years old at a fire 1364 01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:05.920 that you're at, So Brandon, thank. 1365 01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:10.159 You for sharing the story and for Ben's parents. 1366 01:14:10.520 --> 01:14:13.119 Know that we will always make sure that people know 1367 01:14:14.039 --> 01:14:21.319 your son's story and that other firefighters will understand, and 1368 01:14:21.359 --> 01:14:24.319 we'll have these watch outs for people to to make 1369 01:14:24.359 --> 01:14:29.039 sure that we can potentially have different outcomes. As Mike 1370 01:14:29.079 --> 01:14:34.479 I said earlier, this is how we save five lives. So, Brandon, 1371 01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:36.079 thank you for being on the show. 1372 01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:37.640 Yeah, for sure, Thanks. 1373 01:14:37.479 --> 01:14:42.439 Brandon, Yeah, thanks for having me. 1374 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:44.159 I want to give a quick. 1375 01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:47.039 Shout out to Ron and Carla also, you know, they've 1376 01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:50.479 obviously losing their son helping out with all the stuff, 1377 01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:54.359 and they're a really big help with me too. You know, 1378 01:14:54.600 --> 01:14:56.640 a lot of the stuff that I go down and 1379 01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:00.159 talk about Ben do all the teaching, you know, they 1380 01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:01.319 they allow me to do it. 1381 01:15:02.640 --> 01:15:03.920 You know, when I. 1382 01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:06.000 First started doing this, I went and talked to them first, 1383 01:15:06.039 --> 01:15:07.880 just to make sure, you know, I had their blessing 1384 01:15:07.960 --> 01:15:10.840 to be able to go and share their son's story 1385 01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:13.760 and everything. And they obviously gave me the go ahead 1386 01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:16.840 because they know the impact that hopefully this story will 1387 01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:19.359 continue to have on the fire service and hopefully be 1388 01:15:19.399 --> 01:15:22.079 able to save other firefighters' lives in the future. So 1389 01:15:22.760 --> 01:15:25.760 I just want to give them a quick shout out 1390 01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:28.199 and everything for all the stuff they continue to do 1391 01:15:28.319 --> 01:15:30.359 to help make the fire service better. 1392 01:15:30.399 --> 01:15:35.000 Also, so we'll. 1393 01:15:34.920 --> 01:15:40.760 Jump into our fire like Chief Leap said, it's chapter 1394 01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:44.600 seven on a duplex. It's on an old Air Force 1395 01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:48.560 base up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, just a 1396 01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:54.560 little south of Lake superior, So there's a picture sometime 1397 01:15:54.640 --> 01:15:58.720 after the fire. Unfortunately, now, just like the last story 1398 01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:03.960 we heard, it is tore down and everything. But it 1399 01:16:04.039 --> 01:16:08.439 is a duplex kind of split level. So on the 1400 01:16:08.479 --> 01:16:12.479 front half where you're looking at, the actual doors to 1401 01:16:12.800 --> 01:16:15.600 enter the structure are on the side of the house, 1402 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:20.279 so the B and D corners the fire around this 1403 01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:23.479 one will be on the A B side of the 1404 01:16:23.479 --> 01:16:29.359 house or the duplex. The kitchen and living room are 1405 01:16:29.399 --> 01:16:33.239 what you're looking at right as you go in the door. 1406 01:16:33.640 --> 01:16:36.439 We'll see a picture later. A little bit inside you 1407 01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:39.279 have the stairs going upstairs where all the bedrooms were 1408 01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:41.560 in one bathroom, and then the stairs right next to 1409 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:42.960 it go down to the basement. 1410 01:16:44.079 --> 01:16:46.399 The A side of the structure. 1411 01:16:46.039 --> 01:16:50.479 Also was on a concrete slab, so the basement was 1412 01:16:50.840 --> 01:16:56.479 underneath the bedrooms and everything. So here's the side of 1413 01:16:56.479 --> 01:17:00.840 the structure that the fire was actually on. So we 1414 01:17:00.880 --> 01:17:06.600 got called that night, right around between nine thirty and 1415 01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:12.039 ten o'clock that night for a structure fire. Everyone out 1416 01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:18.479 of the building. This was in Ben Lauren's jurisdiction in 1417 01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:22.199 their township, Forsyth Township. The department I was on for 1418 01:17:22.279 --> 01:17:25.920 that was our county rescue team through the Sheriff's department, 1419 01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:31.439 so we were part ten deputies with them, most of 1420 01:17:31.520 --> 01:17:35.960 us firefighters EMS I was a paramedic at the time. 1421 01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:39.640 We got dispatched for as the WRIT team, so in 1422 01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:42.159 a lot of area in our county we would get 1423 01:17:42.199 --> 01:17:45.840 dispatched too structure fighters as the WRIT team. They also 1424 01:17:45.920 --> 01:17:48.880 had two other departments called there for mutual aid for 1425 01:17:48.960 --> 01:17:54.279 tankers and manpower. Up in the up we are pretty 1426 01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:59.399 rural and everything even there. First station where they're all 1427 01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:02.800 coming from was a little ways away, so from time 1428 01:18:02.800 --> 01:18:05.920 of dispatch to time on scene was about twenty minutes, 1429 01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:09.640 but in reality that's pretty normal for most of our 1430 01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:15.880 area up here in the rural area. From where we're 1431 01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:19.239 coming from, we're kind of scattered all over the county. 1432 01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:23.960 Our truck that we responded from and everything got on 1433 01:18:24.119 --> 01:18:28.159 scene about thirty five to forty minutes from page out, 1434 01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:32.359 so they were already on scene before we got there. 1435 01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:38.000 Their first officer arriving on scene gave a first time 1436 01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:42.760 the report that fire through the roof fully involved, so 1437 01:18:42.800 --> 01:18:46.079 it is kind of one first teaching point that kind 1438 01:18:46.079 --> 01:18:49.920 of hit us. Obviously we heard that, we kind of 1439 01:18:49.960 --> 01:18:53.279 started talking, getting our game plan as the rit team, well, 1440 01:18:53.479 --> 01:18:56.439 if fire is already through the rough, fully involved, we don't. 1441 01:18:56.279 --> 01:18:59.279 Think that anyone's going to be in there, you know from. 1442 01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.760 The fire department, you know, me and my partner that 1443 01:19:01.760 --> 01:19:04.920 we're in the back. You know, our idea of fully 1444 01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:09.119 involved is flames everywhere that we can't occupy that space. 1445 01:19:09.720 --> 01:19:13.039 So we're not thinking, you know, anyone's going to be 1446 01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:17.960 in that structure at that now after that doesn't matter 1447 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:21.000 what kind of first in report we're getting, I'm always 1448 01:19:21.039 --> 01:19:24.680 thinking that there's going to be victims or people in 1449 01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:27.000 that you know, fire until we get on. 1450 01:19:27.039 --> 01:19:28.079 Scene improve otherwise. 1451 01:19:29.439 --> 01:19:33.720 So our mindset kind of a little bit, uh was 1452 01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:36.479 a little relaxed, just because we didn't think anyone was 1453 01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:39.760 going to be in there. So we pull on scene. 1454 01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:44.079 We were back about half a block because it's kind 1455 01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:45.680 of in the middle of the block that they were on, 1456 01:19:46.279 --> 01:19:49.960 and we could see, you know, an orange glow in 1457 01:19:50.039 --> 01:19:54.319 the night sky. When we get there, we can kind 1458 01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:59.319 of see fire through that side roof and then I 1459 01:19:59.319 --> 01:20:02.439 look down and I can see hose lines going into 1460 01:20:02.479 --> 01:20:05.439 the structure, And obviously that changed my mindset and my 1461 01:20:05.479 --> 01:20:06.760 partner's mindset a little bit. 1462 01:20:07.720 --> 01:20:10.039 At that because now we know that the people are 1463 01:20:10.039 --> 01:20:15.920 in there. So me and my partner and my dad, 1464 01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:16.680 who was. 1465 01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:20.279 Our officer for that night, we go meet up with 1466 01:20:21.439 --> 01:20:24.159 their assistant chief to start kind of getting. 1467 01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:26.880 The game plan and finding out where people were. 1468 01:20:28.039 --> 01:20:32.359 I didn't know until after talking getting more stuff after 1469 01:20:32.399 --> 01:20:36.960 the incident, their first arriving truck that Ben was on again, 1470 01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:37.560 they had. 1471 01:20:37.479 --> 01:20:39.720 Fire through that seaside roof. 1472 01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:43.680 They set a crew inside kind of at the bottom 1473 01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:47.159 of the stairs, going upstairs to spray water, and then 1474 01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:50.760 Ben and his partner went down in the basement to 1475 01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:55.119 check for extension everything. They did have some fire down there, 1476 01:20:56.319 --> 01:20:58.119 not a whole lot. They were able to put all 1477 01:20:58.159 --> 01:21:01.960 that out, kind of did some search down there. At 1478 01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:05.680 that point, his partner started get a little low on air, 1479 01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:09.720 so they came out of the structure to switch out bottles. 1480 01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:14.800 So when we got unseen, the first crew that went 1481 01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:16.720 in was still in there at the bottom of the 1482 01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:20.600 stairs spraying water. They had a crew on the sea 1483 01:21:20.680 --> 01:21:23.600 side spraying water onto the roof and through that. 1484 01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:25.880 Hole, and then they're pulling another line. 1485 01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:29.359 At that point, when we made it to the b 1486 01:21:29.560 --> 01:21:31.960 side where the door was and started talking to their 1487 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:37.279 assistant chief, that crew that was inside made their way out, 1488 01:21:38.159 --> 01:21:39.880 kind of talked to them, kind of see what was 1489 01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:44.680 going on. They said that hole second story where the 1490 01:21:44.720 --> 01:21:47.239 bedrooms were. It was pretty much fully. 1491 01:21:46.960 --> 01:21:50.159 Involved, not really getting a great. 1492 01:21:50.079 --> 01:21:53.159 Knocked on it, but they had to switch out bottles. 1493 01:21:54.319 --> 01:21:57.399 At that point, I noticed some fire coming out of 1494 01:21:57.439 --> 01:22:01.039 a b side window to go grab a hand line, 1495 01:22:01.119 --> 01:22:03.439 just to kind of again try to phrase some of that, 1496 01:22:03.600 --> 01:22:07.159 but they got another crew to start doing that. So 1497 01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:13.920 I continue talking with the assistant chief trying to get 1498 01:22:13.960 --> 01:22:17.840 some more information. My partner that was in the back 1499 01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:20.520 of the truck and another one of our members that 1500 01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:24.079 showed up. They started doing a three sixty, got some 1501 01:22:24.119 --> 01:22:27.079 more information At that point, I was about to start 1502 01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:27.800 my three sixty. 1503 01:22:28.039 --> 01:22:29.960 At this point Ben came up. 1504 01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:34.279 Talked to him a little bit because we go way 1505 01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:36.720 back a little bit. Both of our dads in the 1506 01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:42.560 area were volunteer firefighters, so kind of knew Ben growing 1507 01:22:42.640 --> 01:22:45.960 up and everything. At first, I was always the young 1508 01:22:46.039 --> 01:22:48.319 kid going around to all of our county trainings, and 1509 01:22:48.800 --> 01:22:50.920 I always had to be, you know, the victim for 1510 01:22:50.960 --> 01:22:53.720 our dads and you know, the extrication. 1511 01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:55.039 Stuff for different things. 1512 01:22:55.119 --> 01:22:58.479 And then Ben finally got old enough and started coming around, 1513 01:22:58.520 --> 01:23:01.600 and it was like, sweet, I'm not that young guy anymore. 1514 01:23:02.199 --> 01:23:05.039 I can start watching a little bit more and Ben 1515 01:23:05.119 --> 01:23:07.560 can take over for that. So I got to talk 1516 01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:10.640 to him a little bit at that time to my 1517 01:23:10.760 --> 01:23:15.920 wife and his girlfriend worked at the hospitals nurses together, 1518 01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:19.479 so we made a little joke about them. His partner 1519 01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:25.039 came up and they went back into the fire to 1520 01:23:25.079 --> 01:23:26.199 try to. 1521 01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:26.920 Stop the spread. 1522 01:23:27.359 --> 01:23:29.960 How long at that point I didn't realize that was. 1523 01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:38.600 At this point probably close to fifty minutes, because the 1524 01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:41.079 other thing with it too, that. 1525 01:23:41.119 --> 01:23:46.399 We found out after that, the person that was renting 1526 01:23:46.439 --> 01:23:49.720 it waited about twenty to thirty minutes to call nine 1527 01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:54.079 to one one after the fire started, not really sure 1528 01:23:54.159 --> 01:23:55.880 why anything left. 1529 01:23:55.960 --> 01:23:59.760 You know, I'll say, fifty minutes. It's a nut. 1530 01:24:01.319 --> 01:24:04.600 Wow, yeah, go ahead, thank you. 1531 01:24:04.680 --> 01:24:07.239 So mm hmm. 1532 01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:09.479 So yeah, I didn't know. 1533 01:24:09.439 --> 01:24:11.479 That was going to be, uh, you know, the last. 1534 01:24:11.359 --> 01:24:14.079 Time I got to ever talk to Ben really. 1535 01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:17.600 So watched him go in. Him and his partner. He 1536 01:24:17.680 --> 01:24:19.439 was the first on the hose line. They're at the 1537 01:24:19.439 --> 01:24:22.479 bottom of the steps just spraying water. Kind of looked, 1538 01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:22.880 you know. 1539 01:24:23.439 --> 01:24:24.159 I always got the. 1540 01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:26.560 Question, I was like, well, did you feel comfortable with 1541 01:24:26.600 --> 01:24:29.560 them going in. Yeah, because where they were at that point, 1542 01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:32.319 they were on a concrete slab, nothing burning over on, 1543 01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:34.560 spraying water, protecting themselves. 1544 01:24:35.159 --> 01:24:37.159 Totally fine. 1545 01:24:37.680 --> 01:24:41.039 At that point, I looked at my dad told him 1546 01:24:41.079 --> 01:24:42.479 now I was going to start doing, you know, my 1547 01:24:42.560 --> 01:24:44.920 three sixty as the rit team to get more eyes 1548 01:24:44.960 --> 01:24:47.760 on it. As I was about to turn around look 1549 01:24:47.840 --> 01:24:50.640 back one more time, noticed that Ben and. 1550 01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:52.479 His partner, you know, weren't. 1551 01:24:52.159 --> 01:24:53.560 At the bottom of the stairs anymore. 1552 01:24:54.319 --> 01:24:56.439 I could see. Didn't know how far they were up 1553 01:24:56.439 --> 01:24:57.600 the stairs, but they're. 1554 01:24:57.439 --> 01:25:00.760 On the stairs kind of back in my mind there's 1555 01:25:00.800 --> 01:25:04.840 a picture going up to the stairs. In my mind 1556 01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:06.399 noted that do that. 1557 01:25:06.680 --> 01:25:07.399 It had to be. 1558 01:25:07.760 --> 01:25:10.039 Somewhat good because there was a crew just up there. 1559 01:25:12.039 --> 01:25:13.960 It was just about to turn. 1560 01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:15.960 The corner around that little. 1561 01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:19.680 Garage that was on the front, and all of a 1562 01:25:19.720 --> 01:25:24.159 sudden heard his assistant chief kind of say Ben, you 1563 01:25:24.159 --> 01:25:26.640 know over the radio, Ben, you try to say something, 1564 01:25:27.119 --> 01:25:29.520 and you know that for some reason, the hairs on 1565 01:25:29.560 --> 01:25:31.279 the back of my neck stood up, like that's just 1566 01:25:31.319 --> 01:25:33.720 not normal. And then all of a sudden his partner 1567 01:25:33.760 --> 01:25:36.800 came running out of that side door, screaming for help. 1568 01:25:37.359 --> 01:25:42.119 You know, I didn't even think twice, dropped my knee, 1569 01:25:42.479 --> 01:25:46.600 started to get my mask on, gloved up everything. My 1570 01:25:46.680 --> 01:25:50.439 partner right there too, everything, and we were probably masked 1571 01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:54.760 up into the building to Ben after his partner came 1572 01:25:55.159 --> 01:25:59.119 and within sixty seconds. So that's a picture of the 1573 01:25:59.119 --> 01:26:04.039 basement after the fire, so you can see that there 1574 01:26:04.119 --> 01:26:08.439 was some fire down there. Some of the fire did 1575 01:26:08.479 --> 01:26:12.520 reach to the floor, trust trustes and everything. They did 1576 01:26:12.720 --> 01:26:17.279 char him up a little bit, but nothing not bad 1577 01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:24.039 enough that it caused true structural damage. But so, like 1578 01:26:24.079 --> 01:26:27.239 I said, me and my partner got to Ben. If 1579 01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:31.800 you could go back to that one picture with the stairs, 1580 01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:36.399 so these are the stairs going up. Ben was right 1581 01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:40.680 at the top of the stairs, kind of facing us, 1582 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:44.159 but also more towards the railing a little bit, so 1583 01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:47.680 he wasn't looking directly down the stairs. He was at 1584 01:26:47.800 --> 01:26:50.520 kind of an angle. So I was the first one 1585 01:26:50.560 --> 01:26:54.239 to him up those stairs, grabbed onto him right away. 1586 01:26:54.720 --> 01:26:56.920 He was still trying to push up a little bit, 1587 01:26:56.960 --> 01:26:59.880 try to get unstuck. Let him know, you know, hey, 1588 01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:00.760 it was me. 1589 01:27:01.239 --> 01:27:02.880 We're here, We're gonna, you know, get you out. 1590 01:27:04.199 --> 01:27:08.560 So I grabbed because his bottle was still above the floor, also, 1591 01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:11.880 so I grabbed the back of his bottle and his 1592 01:27:12.039 --> 01:27:16.119 right shoulder strap. My partner grabbed his left, and we tried, 1593 01:27:16.479 --> 01:27:19.960 you know, pulling them up, because training before all the time, 1594 01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:22.479 you know, someone falls through a hole, you just grab 1595 01:27:22.520 --> 01:27:23.359 them and you pull them up. 1596 01:27:23.560 --> 01:27:25.279 You know, no big deal. So we're like, all right, 1597 01:27:25.560 --> 01:27:25.840 you know. 1598 01:27:25.880 --> 01:27:28.560 We're gonna have this. We went and pulled them and 1599 01:27:28.680 --> 01:27:31.880 Ben maybe moved an inch and all that. It was 1600 01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:35.039 like a wine bottle cork stuck in a bottle when 1601 01:27:35.039 --> 01:27:41.319 you're trying to pull it out, and there's there's kind 1602 01:27:41.319 --> 01:27:44.880 of the picture of the hole. The one kind of 1603 01:27:44.880 --> 01:27:49.079 little deceiving of this picture, because that hole looks pretty 1604 01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:51.000 big that someone should be able to, you know, either 1605 01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:52.359 fall all the way through or. 1606 01:27:52.479 --> 01:27:54.399 Get out be pulled out pretty easy. 1607 01:27:55.039 --> 01:27:59.560 But if you look kind of halfway back on that hole, 1608 01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:03.079 you see that little triangle piece that's sticking out. If 1609 01:28:03.079 --> 01:28:06.159 you draw a line from that triangle piece all the 1610 01:28:06.159 --> 01:28:09.279 way over to the other side and fill in everything 1611 01:28:10.039 --> 01:28:15.720 behind it, that's the size of the hole. Because everything 1612 01:28:15.760 --> 01:28:18.720 behind that little triangle piece was not burned through when 1613 01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:22.520 we were there. That burned through after. 1614 01:28:23.239 --> 01:28:24.079 We got bent out. 1615 01:28:25.079 --> 01:28:28.079 I went back, uh about a year later and got 1616 01:28:28.159 --> 01:28:33.039 measurements and it was about a thirteen inch all the 1617 01:28:33.079 --> 01:28:37.800 way around size hole and everything right in between the trusses. 1618 01:28:41.039 --> 01:28:43.479 So he was, you know, stuck in there pretty good. 1619 01:28:44.439 --> 01:28:50.319 How far after we tried to pull him his it 1620 01:28:50.399 --> 01:28:53.279 was about belly button ish that. 1621 01:28:53.399 --> 01:28:59.079 Was you know, kind of to the floor right hard 1622 01:28:59.119 --> 01:28:59.880 to really tell. 1623 01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:06.319 So the fire conditions were, you know, it was still 1624 01:29:06.359 --> 01:29:09.880 pretty well involved up there, I say all the time. 1625 01:29:09.920 --> 01:29:13.760 Thankfully they did have that vent hole that was created 1626 01:29:13.800 --> 01:29:17.920 by the fire in the roof already, just because a 1627 01:29:17.960 --> 01:29:22.359 lot of stuff was still venting out there. But everything 1628 01:29:22.399 --> 01:29:26.039 around us and behind us was still rolling pretty good, 1629 01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:30.800 and everything because obviously you saw that one picture with 1630 01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:34.239 the stairs. You know, two firefighters and gears on stairs 1631 01:29:34.319 --> 01:29:36.680 doesn't give us a whole lot of room, especially when 1632 01:29:36.680 --> 01:29:37.600 we're trying to reach. 1633 01:29:37.359 --> 01:29:39.920 Over and grab one of our own to pull up. 1634 01:29:40.319 --> 01:29:42.039 So you can see in this picture kind of the 1635 01:29:42.159 --> 01:29:46.840 drywall is knocked down or even where the studs are exposed. 1636 01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:50.920 That driver was there, but me and my partner were 1637 01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:53.840 just trying to knock more stuff around to try to 1638 01:29:53.880 --> 01:29:58.039 gain more access. So what are you looking at where 1639 01:29:58.079 --> 01:30:00.680 you see the exposed studs that's actually the of origin. 1640 01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:03.600 I was trying to knock some of that stuff down 1641 01:30:03.640 --> 01:30:05.800 and actually get into that room and around him more, 1642 01:30:07.119 --> 01:30:10.319 but I really only lasted seconds in there just because 1643 01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:15.439 it was getting so hot. So kind of going back 1644 01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:19.439 again after we tried to pull them the first time. 1645 01:30:20.680 --> 01:30:23.199 Again, knowing training. 1646 01:30:22.800 --> 01:30:26.479 Before pulling the floor usually means that more of the 1647 01:30:26.479 --> 01:30:29.840 floor is weakend, So I started hitting around him to 1648 01:30:29.880 --> 01:30:32.720 try to break more of that floor up and everything. 1649 01:30:33.159 --> 01:30:36.880 That floor was solid, rock solid all the way around him. 1650 01:30:36.920 --> 01:30:40.039 Even the year after when I went back, you could 1651 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:41.399 walk that whole floor. 1652 01:30:41.479 --> 01:30:41.680 You know. 1653 01:30:41.880 --> 01:30:44.520 It was no structural damage to the floor. It was 1654 01:30:44.600 --> 01:30:48.439 just that that thirteen by thirteen by thirteen hole that 1655 01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:54.319 burned right there. So we tried gaining more access. Like 1656 01:30:54.399 --> 01:30:56.600 I talked about, we tried to pull him up again, 1657 01:30:57.399 --> 01:31:05.319 barely moved again, and us just at that point, remember. 1658 01:31:07.760 --> 01:31:10.479 Nope, no fire underneath him. 1659 01:31:10.520 --> 01:31:13.199 Because at this point a third member of our team 1660 01:31:13.239 --> 01:31:15.960 came in and we sent him to the basement to 1661 01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:19.079 one again check conditions, but see if he could kind 1662 01:31:19.079 --> 01:31:23.199 of see everything. He said there was no fire anything 1663 01:31:23.199 --> 01:31:27.039 down there causing any issues. And thankfully he's like six 1664 01:31:27.159 --> 01:31:29.840 six sixty seven. That we sent down there because Ben 1665 01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:32.960 was actually able to stand on his shoulders and kind 1666 01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:35.960 of you know, push up a little bit. So he 1667 01:31:36.039 --> 01:31:40.119 tried again, and my partner that was down there, he 1668 01:31:40.279 --> 01:31:41.439 was actually able. 1669 01:31:41.199 --> 01:31:43.079 To reach up and. 1670 01:31:43.119 --> 01:31:46.520 Undo his waist belt because his waist belt was underneath 1671 01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:49.880 the floor. And when we did that, I kind of felt. 1672 01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:51.079 Some you know, relief in him. 1673 01:31:51.640 --> 01:31:53.560 So we went to pull him one more time. Still 1674 01:31:53.560 --> 01:31:56.520 didn't move at that point because I had my arm, 1675 01:31:57.119 --> 01:31:59.680 my right arm wrapped around him, I could feel him 1676 01:31:59.720 --> 01:32:02.600 go lim in my arm, so kind of talk to him, 1677 01:32:02.720 --> 01:32:06.000 got no response, couldn't tell if he was breathing or 1678 01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:08.279 just not breathing enough to engage our MMR. 1679 01:32:08.800 --> 01:32:10.239 So I hit the purge valve. 1680 01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:14.560 Again, trying to figure out something to do because he's 1681 01:32:14.600 --> 01:32:19.279 not coming this way. My partner decided that we're gonna, 1682 01:32:19.760 --> 01:32:21.800 you know, set him down to the basement. You know, 1683 01:32:21.840 --> 01:32:24.000 he's not coming up. Let's try to get him down. 1684 01:32:25.640 --> 01:32:28.800 And even that was kind of tough again just to 1685 01:32:28.800 --> 01:32:31.319 size the whole Almer gear. So as we're pushing him through, 1686 01:32:31.640 --> 01:32:33.399 we're taking off his air pack, his mask. 1687 01:32:33.600 --> 01:32:35.159 He had to take his jacket off. 1688 01:32:36.520 --> 01:32:39.159 There is that what happened. I don't even I wouldn't know. 1689 01:32:41.720 --> 01:32:43.479 His face he. 1690 01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:47.600 Went, Yep, he had his face peace on bottle was 1691 01:32:47.680 --> 01:32:50.159 pretty much full because by the time from the time 1692 01:32:50.159 --> 01:32:54.479 that he went in the second time too, when uh, 1693 01:32:54.920 --> 01:32:58.720 his partner came yelling out, was maybe five minutes of 1694 01:32:58.840 --> 01:33:02.039 him in the structure. So he never ran out of air, 1695 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:07.079 even with the purge valve open. So once we lowered 1696 01:33:07.119 --> 01:33:11.439 him to the basement, we had one of our guys there, 1697 01:33:11.720 --> 01:33:14.119 his partners down there, they started, you know, bringing off 1698 01:33:14.159 --> 01:33:16.760 the stairs. I went and met them at those stairs. 1699 01:33:17.640 --> 01:33:23.119 We finished getting them up and then got them out 1700 01:33:23.479 --> 01:33:27.039 to a backboard that was waiting, got him onto the stretcher. 1701 01:33:28.399 --> 01:33:30.439 Their fire department had. 1702 01:33:30.319 --> 01:33:35.359 A limited advanced life support ambulance on scene with three 1703 01:33:35.439 --> 01:33:36.399 e mts. 1704 01:33:37.000 --> 01:33:37.960 So they were getting them loaded. 1705 01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:41.239 Knew that an ALS ambulance from our area was coming, 1706 01:33:41.439 --> 01:33:45.039 but was still a little ways out. So I'm coming out, 1707 01:33:45.279 --> 01:33:46.600 you know, kind of tired and everything. 1708 01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:47.119 Uh. 1709 01:33:47.800 --> 01:33:50.359 But in my mind, you know, the job wasn't done 1710 01:33:51.199 --> 01:33:55.319 nothing against you know, foresighted e MS. But I knew 1711 01:33:55.319 --> 01:33:57.760 I was the only medic on that scene, so I 1712 01:33:57.800 --> 01:33:59.199 started ditching my fire gear. 1713 01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:00.960 You know. 1714 01:34:01.119 --> 01:34:03.000 At this point, my Dad's right on me. Asking me 1715 01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:04.800 if I'm okay. I'm kind of pushing them away. 1716 01:34:04.600 --> 01:34:05.520 Like hey, get out of my way. 1717 01:34:05.560 --> 01:34:07.520 I you know, I still want to do my job, 1718 01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:09.680 so I'm I'm ditching my fire gear, knowing I have 1719 01:34:09.680 --> 01:34:12.680 to hop on this ambulance and you know, start doing 1720 01:34:12.720 --> 01:34:16.119 what I can until we can get to the ALUs care, 1721 01:34:17.600 --> 01:34:18.399 get him under the rig. 1722 01:34:19.319 --> 01:34:20.760 What what caused? 1723 01:34:20.920 --> 01:34:25.600 What was his injuries he fell into. 1724 01:34:25.720 --> 01:34:34.119 So yep, so quick examine everything. I couldn't see any injuries. 1725 01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:38.640 He didn't have, you know, any cuts. He did have 1726 01:34:39.199 --> 01:34:42.600 an abrasion on his side, but I think that happened 1727 01:34:42.600 --> 01:34:44.840 when we lowered him, you know, through the floor, kind 1728 01:34:44.840 --> 01:34:49.720 of the jacket coming up, but no no obvious injuries 1729 01:34:50.279 --> 01:34:52.640 and a quick trauma. 1730 01:34:54.359 --> 01:34:56.720 Yeah, he was unconscious and wasn't breathing. 1731 01:34:57.479 --> 01:35:00.399 He was starting to turn you know, cyanaudic the lips 1732 01:35:00.399 --> 01:35:04.640 and everything at this point. So when we were when 1733 01:35:04.720 --> 01:35:07.800 we were pulling him out, you know, just trying to 1734 01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:10.479 get him out, he was put based on the backboard. 1735 01:35:11.479 --> 01:35:12.319 It is what it is. 1736 01:35:12.520 --> 01:35:16.920 When we got him into the ambulance, you know, I 1737 01:35:17.119 --> 01:35:20.479 wanted to obviously roll them. I just kind of point 1738 01:35:20.520 --> 01:35:22.279 to everyone that was, you know, standing at the back 1739 01:35:22.319 --> 01:35:24.199 of the open door, say hey, you come up here, 1740 01:35:24.279 --> 01:35:27.079 help me roll them and grab the one side of him. 1741 01:35:27.119 --> 01:35:30.640 As I roll him, I look up and I didn't 1742 01:35:30.680 --> 01:35:34.039 notice that I had pointed to his dad to come 1743 01:35:34.119 --> 01:35:36.640 up and help me roll him and everything. So that 1744 01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:39.760 was kind of a shock. Yeah, So I looked at him. 1745 01:35:39.760 --> 01:35:42.039 I said, hey, Ron, I know what's going on, but 1746 01:35:42.159 --> 01:35:44.119 I need you to, you know, get out of the 1747 01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:47.079 ambulance right now so I can continue my job. And 1748 01:35:47.760 --> 01:35:53.159 he understood. He yep, got right out and everything. So 1749 01:35:53.279 --> 01:35:58.199 got that, got the monitor hooked up to him. They 1750 01:35:58.239 --> 01:36:00.800 are also the only ones that our county that have 1751 01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:04.479 a Lucas device, so we got that hooked up to him. 1752 01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:09.079 I got started and we all. 1753 01:36:09.039 --> 01:36:15.520 Right, yeah, yep, yeah, mm hmm, and then we left. 1754 01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:21.239 We left scene right away, met up with uh Als, 1755 01:36:21.279 --> 01:36:24.560 the medic working that night. Was one of my mentors 1756 01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:28.199 coming up through the medical side and everything's been doing 1757 01:36:28.199 --> 01:36:29.520 it for you know. 1758 01:36:29.520 --> 01:36:30.680 Twenty years and everything. 1759 01:36:30.840 --> 01:36:34.039 So I was really happy, you know, at that point 1760 01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:38.079 to see him pop through my ambulance doores, because I knew, 1761 01:36:38.239 --> 01:36:42.159 you know, again, we had the A team going, so 1762 01:36:42.159 --> 01:36:44.800 we got all our meds going and everything. 1763 01:36:44.920 --> 01:36:47.239 I already had an io started all that. 1764 01:36:49.239 --> 01:36:52.319 I had him in debate because again thinking traumatic, you know, 1765 01:36:52.399 --> 01:36:55.199 probably arrest. So I wanted to get that definitive. 1766 01:36:54.800 --> 01:37:01.079 Airway and you know, we ran everything we could think. 1767 01:37:00.960 --> 01:37:05.399 Of for you know, that code. You know, through multiple 1768 01:37:05.479 --> 01:37:06.199 rounds of Eppie. 1769 01:37:07.199 --> 01:37:07.920 We threw. 1770 01:37:09.720 --> 01:37:12.479 D fifty at him because we figured, hey, he was 1771 01:37:12.520 --> 01:37:15.000 working maybe a little bit of a glucose issue. 1772 01:37:15.520 --> 01:37:17.960 We got on the phone with our er doc who. 1773 01:37:18.119 --> 01:37:20.560 Used to actually be a medic in the Detroit area, 1774 01:37:21.239 --> 01:37:24.039 so bouncing stuff off him. We did crush injury, you know, 1775 01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:27.159 anything that we could think of. You know, we threw that. 1776 01:37:27.319 --> 01:37:32.680 Ben got to about, you know, the forty forty five 1777 01:37:32.720 --> 01:37:36.359 minute mark of running this code and kind of had 1778 01:37:36.399 --> 01:37:39.880 to have that you know, decision and everything. And I'll 1779 01:37:39.880 --> 01:37:43.479 never forget it. You know, it was something was mentioned. 1780 01:37:43.199 --> 01:37:45.680 And I kind of looked up at the medic. 1781 01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:49.760 That came and because he was begging after he innovated, 1782 01:37:50.359 --> 01:37:52.399 and he kind of had that look on his face 1783 01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:56.560 that hey, it's it was mentioned. It's probably time to 1784 01:37:56.600 --> 01:37:58.960 think about, you know, talking to the doctors and the 1785 01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:01.399 family about calling it. But I will sit here with 1786 01:38:01.439 --> 01:38:02.399 you until. 1787 01:38:02.279 --> 01:38:04.760 You know you're ready and all that, and you know, 1788 01:38:05.119 --> 01:38:05.479 I didn't. 1789 01:38:05.479 --> 01:38:06.880 He just had that look on him and I'll never 1790 01:38:06.920 --> 01:38:09.479 forget it. And I just kind of look at him 1791 01:38:09.479 --> 01:38:11.239 and I said, is it. 1792 01:38:11.359 --> 01:38:13.159 And he said yeah, I think so. 1793 01:38:13.560 --> 01:38:17.000 I said, well, you know, I'll stay in here, continue stuff. 1794 01:38:17.079 --> 01:38:20.720 But his dad and sister were, you know, on seeing 1795 01:38:20.720 --> 01:38:22.119 because we stopped at the side of the road when 1796 01:38:22.159 --> 01:38:24.800 we met up with als, I said, you go talk 1797 01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:26.880 to them and if they say they're good, you know, 1798 01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.159 I'm good. But I'm going to run this, you know, 1799 01:38:30.159 --> 01:38:33.079 until we run out of stuff, for you know, someone 1800 01:38:33.119 --> 01:38:37.279 pulls me away. So he went and talked to Ron 1801 01:38:37.319 --> 01:38:39.600 and his sister and they said it was okay, and 1802 01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:42.520 you know, we stopped like safety measures at that point. 1803 01:38:44.960 --> 01:38:48.520 How far What was it that killed him, Brandon? Did 1804 01:38:48.520 --> 01:38:48.800 they know? 1805 01:38:51.399 --> 01:38:56.720 Traumatic asphyxiation, So autopsy was done. He had no underlying 1806 01:38:56.800 --> 01:39:00.399 medical issue that he didn't know about and everything, but 1807 01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:03.119 just with the size of the hole and where he 1808 01:39:03.199 --> 01:39:06.880 was at just kind of with or squeezing him from 1809 01:39:06.880 --> 01:39:07.479 the inside out. 1810 01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:11.239 So he probably couldn't expand his ripcage to breathe either, right, 1811 01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:12.720 I mean that's what I would think if he. 1812 01:39:12.760 --> 01:39:13.720 Was correcting this. 1813 01:39:14.199 --> 01:39:17.760 Yeah. 1814 01:39:17.920 --> 01:39:23.319 Yeah, I got a couple of quick quick questions for you. 1815 01:39:23.319 --> 01:39:26.760 You mentioned the sheriff Rescue. Is that a heavy rescue 1816 01:39:26.800 --> 01:39:30.800 that's funded by the sheriff but staff by firefighters? 1817 01:39:34.479 --> 01:39:34.760 Yep. 1818 01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:37.800 Yeah, so it's uh funded through the Sheriff's department through 1819 01:39:37.800 --> 01:39:42.960 their Special Ops division. I'm not on that unit now 1820 01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:46.640 that I'm in a different department full time, but uh, 1821 01:39:46.960 --> 01:39:52.119 the staff it's like a paid on call department, so 1822 01:39:52.319 --> 01:39:57.079 but staffed with uh a firefighter e mts, paramedics. They 1823 01:39:57.119 --> 01:40:01.079 do have two full time staff deputy that are also 1824 01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:06.520 firefighter EMTs that run it too, but everyone else is 1825 01:40:07.560 --> 01:40:08.319 like a volunteer. 1826 01:40:09.159 --> 01:40:10.520 It's just a regional rest. 1827 01:40:10.479 --> 01:40:17.159 They cervictly spawned up. Yeah, tech rescue. It started as 1828 01:40:17.159 --> 01:40:19.960 an execation unit for the whole county, but as more 1829 01:40:20.359 --> 01:40:24.920 departments started getting execation tools, you know, expanded and then 1830 01:40:25.159 --> 01:40:29.600 for pretty much the central and west and some south 1831 01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:33.199 of our county that they're writ and then the parts 1832 01:40:33.239 --> 01:40:36.000 that not are covered by my department that I work 1833 01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:36.800 at now full time. 1834 01:40:37.680 --> 01:40:41.680 Okay, you mentioned about switching out bottles. It's just so 1835 01:40:41.720 --> 01:40:47.680 important for our suburban and urban folks listening that in 1836 01:40:47.720 --> 01:40:52.159 this rural scenario there may be nobody else coming for 1837 01:40:52.199 --> 01:40:55.439 a half hour. So you go in, you come out, 1838 01:40:55.520 --> 01:40:59.399 you put on your bottles. Many many, many years ago, 1839 01:40:59.560 --> 01:41:01.840 we had a fire and it was in a relatively 1840 01:41:01.920 --> 01:41:05.199 rural area. I went through five bottles. I mean today 1841 01:41:05.239 --> 01:41:08.319 that's not even thought of. You have replacement, you have 1842 01:41:08.439 --> 01:41:11.520 people on deck. But it really clicked when you said 1843 01:41:11.560 --> 01:41:15.079 that nobody else coming, right, And then the last thing 1844 01:41:15.199 --> 01:41:20.279 is just a comment. This is a classic rural operation 1845 01:41:20.479 --> 01:41:24.119 where it's a family affair and that's good and then 1846 01:41:24.239 --> 01:41:28.119 also is negative. You've got family members responding together, but 1847 01:41:28.199 --> 01:41:30.800 if the families don't join, who else is joining? 1848 01:41:30.920 --> 01:41:31.119 Right? 1849 01:41:31.199 --> 01:41:35.039 So thank you for your for sharing this. I'm sure 1850 01:41:35.079 --> 01:41:38.359 Frank's got the points he wants to make, and maybe 1851 01:41:38.399 --> 01:41:39.000 Micah too. 1852 01:41:39.199 --> 01:41:43.000 So yeah, I just wanted to thank you for being 1853 01:41:44.199 --> 01:41:50.560 thank you to Ben's family. As I mentioned, I know 1854 01:41:50.680 --> 01:41:54.399 you're now an advocate for the n Triple F as well, 1855 01:41:54.479 --> 01:41:59.960 which I think is amazing as well, and the evolution 1856 01:42:00.039 --> 01:42:03.319 and what happens. I know you run the area's fire conference. 1857 01:42:03.359 --> 01:42:07.680 In fact, for you guys, I'm wearing my great Legs 1858 01:42:08.319 --> 01:42:14.199 Hot T shirt tonight and I just think that the 1859 01:42:14.239 --> 01:42:17.840 evolution of what you continue to do, and I'm glad 1860 01:42:17.880 --> 01:42:20.359 you mentioned the size of the all. I know, when 1861 01:42:20.359 --> 01:42:22.920 you go and teach this, you have a piece of 1862 01:42:23.880 --> 01:42:26.600 plywood that has that demonstrates the size of it, which 1863 01:42:26.640 --> 01:42:31.399 really drives it home. And I know from the from 1864 01:42:31.479 --> 01:42:34.680 the writ from your entrance to having him out trying 1865 01:42:34.840 --> 01:42:36.720 all of the different things that you tried to do 1866 01:42:37.720 --> 01:42:41.439 was nine minutes, which it may like a lot, but 1867 01:42:41.560 --> 01:42:43.600 you guys try to plan a B, C and D 1868 01:42:44.439 --> 01:42:50.000 in that time frame under extremely difficult circumstances. 1869 01:42:50.000 --> 01:42:54.119 So again, thank you, Bred. 1870 01:42:54.640 --> 01:42:59.479 Takeaways from you? What's your teaching point? 1871 01:43:04.399 --> 01:43:07.279 So some of them kind of like every time I 1872 01:43:07.319 --> 01:43:09.479 go talk about this, you know, I opened the book 1873 01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:14.039 on myself and some of the things. Biggest one or 1874 01:43:14.119 --> 01:43:17.960 some of the biggest ones obviously radio communication. I mean 1875 01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:20.720 if you look at the Niash five, that's always there. 1876 01:43:22.680 --> 01:43:26.439 But I've always you know, trained as written everything. The 1877 01:43:26.479 --> 01:43:28.319 one thing I did not do what I got to 1878 01:43:28.399 --> 01:43:31.800 them was give a radio report of the conditions that 1879 01:43:31.840 --> 01:43:36.279 we had or you know, the conditions of ben I 1880 01:43:36.359 --> 01:43:39.000 just didn't even think about it. So getting you know, 1881 01:43:39.079 --> 01:43:42.760 really comfortable with using those radios, train on the you know, 1882 01:43:42.840 --> 01:43:47.319 give those reports. It doesn't have to be anything major, 1883 01:43:47.439 --> 01:43:50.319 just something quick to give those people on the outside 1884 01:43:51.640 --> 01:43:55.039 what's going on and everything, because the people at our 1885 01:43:55.119 --> 01:43:57.279 dispatch actually thought that it was. 1886 01:43:57.239 --> 01:43:59.600 Me that has the may Day because. 1887 01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:02.560 People on the outside were trying to reach me over 1888 01:44:02.600 --> 01:44:05.720 the eight hundred and I wasn't responding, so a lot 1889 01:44:05.720 --> 01:44:08.119 of people thought, you know, I was the one. 1890 01:44:07.960 --> 01:44:09.439 Down and everything. 1891 01:44:10.720 --> 01:44:18.119 So that that's a big one. You know, I've done 1892 01:44:18.159 --> 01:44:21.760 a lot of research and talking with people about the incident. Overall, 1893 01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:25.079 I don't think anything instant wise could have been, you know, 1894 01:44:25.359 --> 01:44:28.359 really done different that would have came the outcome. It's 1895 01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:32.479 it's a new, weird incident that happened. But my kind 1896 01:44:32.520 --> 01:44:37.279 of biggest thing just overall is, you know, obviously training 1897 01:44:37.800 --> 01:44:40.760 huge thing. You know, have that mindset of whatever you're 1898 01:44:40.840 --> 01:44:44.079 going to you know, be ready for it, trained for it, 1899 01:44:44.520 --> 01:44:48.920 prepare for it. But not only just at the skills, 1900 01:44:49.600 --> 01:44:53.000 but you know the science behind you know, fires reading, 1901 01:44:53.039 --> 01:44:56.119 smoke reading, fire conditions and all that. We need to 1902 01:44:56.159 --> 01:45:00.239 be those critical thinking firefighters. Also if we don't, if 1903 01:45:00.279 --> 01:45:02.239 we're good at our skills but don't have that critical 1904 01:45:02.279 --> 01:45:05.359 thinking or that knowledge behind it, you know, you're still 1905 01:45:05.359 --> 01:45:07.840 going to get yourself in trouble. We got to be 1906 01:45:08.239 --> 01:45:11.319 you know, capable, competent, and confident firefighters. In my eyes, 1907 01:45:12.199 --> 01:45:14.960 if we can have those three things as firefighters, you know, 1908 01:45:15.199 --> 01:45:18.239 we're in reality going to make that fare ground safer. 1909 01:45:18.640 --> 01:45:21.279 If we have a fire ground full, no matter. 1910 01:45:21.079 --> 01:45:24.520 Of how many of the numbers are, if we're all capable, confident, 1911 01:45:24.800 --> 01:45:27.119 and confident firefighters, it is going to make that fire 1912 01:45:27.159 --> 01:45:27.800 ground safer. 1913 01:45:29.239 --> 01:45:31.439 So one thing that really stands out to me chiefly 1914 01:45:31.560 --> 01:45:35.199 will definitely back down this is that when things go 1915 01:45:35.319 --> 01:45:37.640 soldils in the both of you, I mean, your training 1916 01:45:37.800 --> 01:45:40.760 just kicked in like that, man, like you seem so 1917 01:45:40.840 --> 01:45:43.479 young to me too, like to think out of the box, 1918 01:45:43.520 --> 01:45:45.479 like you're thinking, trying multiple things. 1919 01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:46.680 It's it's really amazing. 1920 01:45:46.720 --> 01:45:48.880 He says a lot about you about how you know, 1921 01:45:50.399 --> 01:45:53.720 how much wiser you are, you know, according to your age. 1922 01:45:53.760 --> 01:45:56.760 I mean you just you took over and you tried 1923 01:45:56.800 --> 01:46:00.680 many things and you you're training kicked in and Bothy 1924 01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:04.039 is actually you know and Chief Leap says it all 1925 01:46:04.079 --> 01:46:06.279 the time. Man, he's the training guy, he's the guy 1926 01:46:06.319 --> 01:46:07.079 who built the rock. 1927 01:46:07.159 --> 01:46:08.399 He's right. 1928 01:46:08.479 --> 01:46:11.399 So just my hat's off, you know, it's a sad thing, 1929 01:46:11.520 --> 01:46:13.720 especially being your friend. Man, I'm sitting here broken hot 1930 01:46:13.800 --> 01:46:17.199 for you, but if you can help out somebody else 1931 01:46:18.079 --> 01:46:18.720 in this book. 1932 01:46:19.199 --> 01:46:22.239 And did you guys, did you guys start like uh, 1933 01:46:23.319 --> 01:46:27.159 like after we had certain fires we you know which 1934 01:46:27.279 --> 01:46:30.399 is go Fanny, similar to to what you said where 1935 01:46:30.399 --> 01:46:32.159 he didn't you know, guys went down to get him 1936 01:46:32.159 --> 01:46:33.119 and they it was like. 1937 01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:34.239 He was nail to the floor. 1938 01:46:35.359 --> 01:46:38.800 And so they came up with a mock scenario and 1939 01:46:38.840 --> 01:46:42.800 they had guys run through that scenario and find the 1940 01:46:42.840 --> 01:46:43.520 best way to. 1941 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:48.239 Again if that happened tomorrow, you know what they would do? 1942 01:46:48.439 --> 01:46:49.079 You know what I mean? 1943 01:46:49.319 --> 01:46:49.680 Do you do? 1944 01:46:49.760 --> 01:46:51.239 You do you guys like. 1945 01:46:51.760 --> 01:46:54.680 Drill on that drill on a scenario where let's say 1946 01:46:54.720 --> 01:46:58.640 it's it's if the same thing happened tomorrow, what. 1947 01:46:58.560 --> 01:46:59.119 Would you do? 1948 01:46:59.439 --> 01:47:00.000 You know what I mean? 1949 01:47:00.199 --> 01:47:03.720 Like, have you guys when you saws all or. 1950 01:47:03.560 --> 01:47:06.159 You know, I'm just saying I'm just shooting. 1951 01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:07.159 Yeah. 1952 01:47:07.279 --> 01:47:10.920 No, We've done it a couple of times. I'm working 1953 01:47:10.960 --> 01:47:13.680 with a couple of people actually designed a prop for 1954 01:47:13.800 --> 01:47:17.880 it and everything. The hardest part is, you know, getting 1955 01:47:18.920 --> 01:47:21.680 the size of the hole for that and the mannequin. 1956 01:47:21.319 --> 01:47:25.359 And and kind of doing that. So but in other. 1957 01:47:25.199 --> 01:47:29.560 Trainings I've done, I've you know, somewhat simulated it with 1958 01:47:29.880 --> 01:47:32.920 you know, like Keith Leap says, I'll put sheets of plywood, 1959 01:47:33.039 --> 01:47:36.920 you know, to make it the narrow hallway, to try 1960 01:47:36.960 --> 01:47:40.079 to do some of that stuff. But I am working 1961 01:47:40.119 --> 01:47:42.760 with a couple other people that design a prop and 1962 01:47:43.039 --> 01:47:45.319 test a couple of different things and all that. 1963 01:47:46.119 --> 01:47:48.359 I guess it's going to be a good thing and 1964 01:47:48.359 --> 01:47:48.720 all that. 1965 01:47:49.640 --> 01:47:52.359 You got to do that, and I mean that's the thing, 1966 01:47:53.159 --> 01:47:57.159 and we have been in different things. I'm sure you 1967 01:47:57.199 --> 01:48:01.239 guys have done it for the drill everybody yep. 1968 01:48:02.840 --> 01:48:06.039 Mm hmmm. So hopefully here soon we'll have some of 1969 01:48:06.079 --> 01:48:09.800 that that that we can put out that We've tested 1970 01:48:09.800 --> 01:48:12.920 a couple of things, but the hardest thing to kind 1971 01:48:12.920 --> 01:48:16.479 of put up against it is that time frame, you know, 1972 01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:21.359 with within nine minutes. So, but we're testing a couple 1973 01:48:21.359 --> 01:48:24.920 of different things to you know, give out to people 1974 01:48:24.920 --> 01:48:26.920 that hey, you know, you get maybe. 1975 01:48:26.720 --> 01:48:27.640 It comes across this. 1976 01:48:28.000 --> 01:48:30.600 You know, you normally don't grab say the sALS all 1977 01:48:30.880 --> 01:48:32.760 or a battery power saw. You know, if you have 1978 01:48:32.840 --> 01:48:34.439 someone stuck in the floor, you might want to grab 1979 01:48:34.439 --> 01:48:37.359 that right away, so you have it with you and everything, 1980 01:48:38.239 --> 01:48:42.439 just because if you do that situation, you know, yep. 1981 01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:50.840 But again you can I jump down real quick on something. Yeah, broh, 1982 01:48:51.279 --> 01:48:54.199 a couple of things that I wrote down here h 1983 01:48:57.359 --> 01:49:04.359 uh mad respect for you brother, That is everybody had 1984 01:49:04.359 --> 01:49:06.279 to take a bite out of that one man. It's 1985 01:49:07.319 --> 01:49:11.640 the key point that I kind of connect on a 1986 01:49:11.680 --> 01:49:14.720 couple of things here between my incident and your incident 1987 01:49:14.760 --> 01:49:18.399 literally for the group I speak about it when I 1988 01:49:18.439 --> 01:49:21.640 do my presentation is if you've never ran the scenario 1989 01:49:21.760 --> 01:49:24.159 in your head of the next victim or person that 1990 01:49:24.199 --> 01:49:26.560 you work on, maybe the person that you rode on 1991 01:49:26.640 --> 01:49:29.239 the apparatus with to that incident, you need to run 1992 01:49:29.239 --> 01:49:31.960 that scenario in your head. And I don't say that 1993 01:49:32.000 --> 01:49:33.800 to be morbid, but it's one of those things that 1994 01:49:34.159 --> 01:49:42.239 you just have to kind of have the wiring connected 1995 01:49:42.319 --> 01:49:44.399 in on your head with it. But secondary to that 1996 01:49:44.720 --> 01:49:49.039 is the fact of being prepared. With being being prepared, 1997 01:49:49.279 --> 01:49:52.920 is you expect fire, you expect victims. And number three 1998 01:49:53.079 --> 01:49:56.720 is I say that you expect may Day's because if 1999 01:49:56.760 --> 01:49:59.600 you have that in your head already, you've already you've 2000 01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:03.079 alreadyaed because you've already thought that worst case scenarios. So again, 2001 01:50:03.239 --> 01:50:06.560 is man, keep telling the story, brother, because folks need 2002 01:50:06.600 --> 01:50:08.800 to hear it, and mad respect to you. 2003 01:50:10.319 --> 01:50:11.720 No respect to the both of you guys. 2004 01:50:11.720 --> 01:50:15.680 We appreciate it, thanks too. 2005 01:50:15.640 --> 01:50:16.079 Chief Lee. 2006 01:50:16.119 --> 01:50:20.920 But Billy, did you ever think I mean, I can't 2007 01:50:20.960 --> 01:50:23.840 even grasp it sometimes, the impact that this is going 2008 01:50:23.920 --> 01:50:27.039 to have on the fire service. I know you guys 2009 01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:29.680 are planning on even more stories after this, right, but 2010 01:50:30.319 --> 01:50:32.960 I mean it just visit into these two stories. 2011 01:50:34.800 --> 01:50:39.800 I just texted Billy g I just said another incredible jo. 2012 01:50:40.479 --> 01:50:44.239 It's just Rob said it in the chat. I couldn't 2013 01:50:44.279 --> 01:50:44.880 say it any better. 2014 01:50:44.920 --> 01:50:47.319 There's two types of people in ourline of work, people 2015 01:50:47.399 --> 01:50:49.279 on the job and people into the job. And these 2016 01:50:49.319 --> 01:50:52.800 gentlemen totally into the job. I totally agree. And that's 2017 01:50:52.840 --> 01:50:54.840 what we see with all of the people that wrote 2018 01:50:54.840 --> 01:50:57.239 these chapters. These are people that care about the job. 2019 01:50:57.680 --> 01:50:59.399 They care about the people they work with. You could 2020 01:50:59.439 --> 01:51:01.720 see it, right, You can hear it in their voices, 2021 01:51:01.760 --> 01:51:08.039 how passionate they are about it. And it's really it's incredible. 2022 01:51:08.119 --> 01:51:11.239 It's and it's about training. But uh so Brandon mentioned 2023 01:51:11.359 --> 01:51:12.640 the Niosh five. 2024 01:51:12.640 --> 01:51:14.600 So so nobody has to look it up. I'm gonna 2025 01:51:14.680 --> 01:51:16.079 I'm gonna read the Niosh five. 2026 01:51:16.520 --> 01:51:20.319 So Nia has identified the top five causal factors in 2027 01:51:20.920 --> 01:51:24.479 injuries and line and do these desks, Improper risk assessment, 2028 01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:29.000 lack of incident command, lack of accountability, inadequate communications, and 2029 01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:32.920 lack of sp A failure to followers. So since he 2030 01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:35.840 mentioned it, I just wanted to point those out since 2031 01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:41.399 hopefully people will continue to use these as another resource 2032 01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:45.199 along with the book when they go on to the website, 2033 01:51:45.760 --> 01:51:46.920 the companion website. 2034 01:51:46.960 --> 01:51:48.560 For this to be. 2035 01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:53.600 Able to be the Companion website, yes that is thirty 2036 01:51:53.600 --> 01:51:56.960 fires dot com www dot. 2037 01:51:56.520 --> 01:52:00.159 Right, Yes, I don't people, We're gonna load up up 2038 01:52:00.640 --> 01:52:03.960 these podcasts and some other ones to the appropriate section 2039 01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:07.479 so they'll actually be able to read the book, look 2040 01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:10.159 at the reports, and now go to the podcast and 2041 01:52:10.239 --> 01:52:11.159 listen to the people. 2042 01:52:12.279 --> 01:52:14.279 So there's only one problem with that, Billy, there is 2043 01:52:14.279 --> 01:52:18.359 no other podcast except that's. 2044 01:52:17.079 --> 01:52:18.279 What I meant. 2045 01:52:18.800 --> 01:52:21.279 I don't know if you know what what? 2046 01:52:21.960 --> 01:52:24.319 And jeez, Frank and I could sit and talk about 2047 01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:27.079 the NIASH five all night long. But one of the 2048 01:52:27.079 --> 01:52:30.039 most important things is when when Frank menzi the lack 2049 01:52:30.079 --> 01:52:34.600 of incident command so critical, and I think I mentioned 2050 01:52:34.600 --> 01:52:37.600 this in the last show. If you're a boss and 2051 01:52:37.680 --> 01:52:40.760 your companies are training get out there and train with them. 2052 01:52:40.800 --> 01:52:43.680 You can't sit in the office. And I'm not saying 2053 01:52:43.680 --> 01:52:46.279 that a battalion chief pulls hose. I'm saying, if you've 2054 01:52:46.279 --> 01:52:49.159 got a multi company drill, the battalion chief does what 2055 01:52:49.159 --> 01:52:51.640 the battalion chief does at the fire and what you 2056 01:52:51.640 --> 01:52:53.600 would do on the job. It's such a big deal. 2057 01:52:54.039 --> 01:52:57.680 And and again we see this conflict all the time. 2058 01:52:58.359 --> 01:53:00.439 I'm a good guy. I want to get along my people. 2059 01:53:00.520 --> 01:53:03.279 You know what, you gotta be tough sometimes. And here's 2060 01:53:03.279 --> 01:53:05.720 two examples of why you gotta be tough. You got 2061 01:53:05.720 --> 01:53:08.920 to run a tight ship. And again we could talk 2062 01:53:08.920 --> 01:53:11.039 about all night. But when Frank mentions that, it's one 2063 01:53:11.079 --> 01:53:14.680 of my favorite subjects because it's so critical. You literally 2064 01:53:14.760 --> 01:53:17.920 can go from being that decent guy in the firehouse 2065 01:53:17.960 --> 01:53:20.079 having a good time when the bell goes off. 2066 01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:20.760 It's no bult. 2067 01:53:21.680 --> 01:53:23.760 Well, I wouldn't mind get a chief pull some. 2068 01:53:27.439 --> 01:53:30.199 I knew somebody was gonna say that. 2069 01:53:29.760 --> 01:53:31.800 If you're watching this and you don't know what to 2070 01:53:31.880 --> 01:53:34.560 drill on, make a mock up and stick a guy 2071 01:53:34.800 --> 01:53:36.800 up to his waist or up to his m pits 2072 01:53:37.560 --> 01:53:42.479 and practice that, because if you don't and it happens again, 2073 01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:46.520 then you didn't shame on you, right like then then 2074 01:53:47.159 --> 01:53:49.920 you didn't learn anything. And unfortunately the guy that you 2075 01:53:49.920 --> 01:53:53.319 know that passed away, it's going to happen again, you 2076 01:53:53.359 --> 01:53:55.960 know what I mean. So all these little things you 2077 01:53:56.000 --> 01:53:56.880 have to learn from it. 2078 01:53:57.119 --> 01:53:58.159 I mean, that's the bottom line. 2079 01:53:58.199 --> 01:54:00.119 You have to drill on it. 2080 01:54:00.119 --> 01:54:03.000 It's the Bible, Denver drill, It's the John Mance drill. 2081 01:54:03.039 --> 01:54:04.520 There's so many. I mean, look this up if you 2082 01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:08.359 don't know the story of John Nance. The article the 2083 01:54:08.439 --> 01:54:11.239 Murder of John Nance. It's an article I used to 2084 01:54:11.279 --> 01:54:14.520 give to New Prob's certainly the Denver drill mentioned in 2085 01:54:14.560 --> 01:54:18.079 the in the chat as well by Steve uh just yeah, 2086 01:54:18.119 --> 01:54:20.479 these are these are things, These are companions to be 2087 01:54:20.560 --> 01:54:23.000 drilling with on this topic so we could be so 2088 01:54:23.039 --> 01:54:25.479 we could continue to progress forward. 2089 01:54:26.720 --> 01:54:29.000 We got one more company we got to talk about tonight, right. 2090 01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:32.239 Guys, Oh, which one is that? Oor Houston? 2091 01:54:33.039 --> 01:54:35.319 I think I might let him pick the health and 2092 01:54:35.359 --> 01:54:36.319 safety tip of the night. 2093 01:54:36.439 --> 01:54:37.920 What do you think I would write? 2094 01:54:38.359 --> 01:54:38.880 Let's see what? 2095 01:54:39.760 --> 01:54:40.039 All right? 2096 01:54:40.359 --> 01:54:42.479 He got twenty you got twenty three seconds of figure 2097 01:54:42.479 --> 01:54:42.680 it out. 2098 01:54:43.279 --> 01:54:45.760 I'm I'm gonna let you so you know what I 2099 01:54:45.760 --> 01:54:47.920 would say from both of these, from both of our 2100 01:54:47.960 --> 01:54:51.439 guests tonight, it's okay to not be okay and to 2101 01:54:51.600 --> 01:54:54.079 identify that and make sure that you're taking care of 2102 01:54:54.159 --> 01:54:56.720 your people on and off the fire ground. That your 2103 01:54:56.720 --> 01:54:59.840 responsibility doesn't end when we pack up the homes and 2104 01:54:59.880 --> 01:55:01.800 we go back into the station, and we have to 2105 01:55:01.800 --> 01:55:03.840 make sure that we are looking out for them. And 2106 01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:08.800 Mike hah said that several times extremely well so did Brandon, 2107 01:55:09.239 --> 01:55:13.760 and I think that we couldn't end on a more 2108 01:55:13.920 --> 01:55:17.079 poignant health and wellness tip than that. 2109 01:55:17.600 --> 01:55:19.520 Yes, well we're gona play the commercial anyways, seeing that you 2110 01:55:19.600 --> 01:55:22.880 jumped the gun on that one, but yeah, standard. 2111 01:55:24.159 --> 01:55:26.520 The First Responder Center for Excellence is a not for 2112 01:55:26.600 --> 01:55:30.159 profit organization dedicated to protecting their lives and livelihoods of 2113 01:55:30.279 --> 01:55:33.840 first responders. Their education and research initiatives aim to bring 2114 01:55:33.920 --> 01:55:38.039 greater awareness and understanding the challenges to the health, safety, 2115 01:55:38.119 --> 01:55:41.319 and well being of firefighters, EMS personnel, and other first 2116 01:55:41.319 --> 01:55:44.520 responders too. They are an affiliate of the National Volume 2117 01:55:44.640 --> 01:55:45.960 Firefighter Foundation. 2118 01:55:47.640 --> 01:55:48.880 And if we want to hear the tip of then 2119 01:55:48.920 --> 01:55:51.000 I just rewind about twenty three seconds, and you know 2120 01:55:51.039 --> 01:55:53.239 he chiefly to give the tip of the night. I 2121 01:55:53.319 --> 01:55:55.760 like what you said. It's okay not to be okay, 2122 01:55:56.479 --> 01:55:58.239 And we have to look out for each other. Man, 2123 01:55:58.279 --> 01:56:01.239 and you talk about two fires like this man, they 2124 01:56:01.399 --> 01:56:04.279 leave last d marks on you your entire life. So 2125 01:56:04.319 --> 01:56:05.840 you need to get out. And it's good that you 2126 01:56:05.880 --> 01:56:08.439 guys getting out and talking about it and talk about 2127 01:56:08.439 --> 01:56:10.119 it with the guys in any fire. You go to, 2128 01:56:10.159 --> 01:56:12.800 any emergency, you go to any Yeah, that's friend. 2129 01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:13.119 You got. 2130 01:56:13.159 --> 01:56:14.640 You gotta get it out, you gotta talk. 2131 01:56:15.239 --> 01:56:18.479 Yeah, bottle it up, bottle it up. 2132 01:56:20.159 --> 01:56:20.359 Yeah. 2133 01:56:20.439 --> 01:56:23.880 One more thing, ghance. We have a line of duty tonight. 2134 01:56:23.920 --> 01:56:26.439 We have to Unfortunately, yes we do. 2135 01:56:29.159 --> 01:56:33.439 Marcelo Garcia forty two years old, three alarmed warehouse fire, 2136 01:56:33.800 --> 01:56:36.359 ten year veteran on the job or station twenty three. 2137 01:56:37.880 --> 01:56:39.840 So I'll bring up his picture. Are you ready? 2138 01:56:40.039 --> 01:56:42.159 I will play the bells. 2139 01:56:41.720 --> 01:56:58.159 Here it is there is rest in peace, brother, Yeah, 2140 01:56:58.920 --> 01:57:01.079 rest in peace brother. If I fail, if I failed 2141 01:57:01.079 --> 01:57:04.520 to mention he's a Houston firefighter. When was that guns 2142 01:57:04.840 --> 01:57:08.199 that was just I think yesterday's yeah. 2143 01:57:08.119 --> 01:57:09.640 Less than twenty four hours ago. 2144 01:57:09.960 --> 01:57:14.199 Yeah, and our prayers go out to the firefighter. And 2145 01:57:14.520 --> 01:57:16.439 was the Chicago that fell through the chef too? 2146 01:57:16.920 --> 01:57:17.159 Right? 2147 01:57:18.119 --> 01:57:18.760 Amen? All right? 2148 01:57:18.800 --> 01:57:20.560 So we got you booked, I think on a calendar, 2149 01:57:20.600 --> 01:57:22.159 so start getting some other guys in here. 2150 01:57:22.199 --> 01:57:25.600 Fella, I think I think we I have. 2151 01:57:25.640 --> 01:57:28.760 You in the December, I do, right, Yeah, I can't 2152 01:57:28.800 --> 01:57:32.079 keep tracking. Yeah right, I'll keep on top of you. Leave. 2153 01:57:32.119 --> 01:57:33.079 Don't worry here. 2154 01:57:33.119 --> 01:57:33.439 All right? 2155 01:57:34.880 --> 01:57:36.439 What the heck got it? All right? 2156 01:57:36.560 --> 01:57:36.800 Alright? 2157 01:57:36.840 --> 01:57:39.079 Listen, it's the last thing. We're having Chief Done on again. 2158 01:57:39.199 --> 01:57:41.000 If I have to break a few arms. Yes, you 2159 01:57:41.000 --> 01:57:44.039 guys don't want to ask the vidy done any questions? 2160 01:57:44.079 --> 01:57:46.600 Send him in Coops Podcast at gmail dot com if 2161 01:57:46.640 --> 01:57:47.920 you want to do it. We're doing a Q and 2162 01:57:47.960 --> 01:57:51.039 A with the Chief VIDI done. It's a good friend 2163 01:57:51.039 --> 01:57:54.960 of the Chief Leaps, a good friend of ours. He's 2164 01:57:55.000 --> 01:57:58.119 a legend. So send you questions into the Coops Podcast 2165 01:57:58.159 --> 01:57:59.239 dogmail dot com. 2166 01:57:59.279 --> 01:58:00.600 The show's on on the bookshere right. 2167 01:58:01.359 --> 01:58:04.880 No, I'm waiting to gather enough questions when these nip them. 2168 01:58:04.720 --> 01:58:08.479 In because we have Captain Tim Grant on the eighteent 2169 01:58:08.520 --> 01:58:09.800 because we don't have a show next week. 2170 01:58:10.720 --> 01:58:12.880 Yes, I will be away for the week. I'm taking vacation. 2171 01:58:13.039 --> 01:58:14.159 So how do you like them apples? 2172 01:58:14.239 --> 01:58:15.640 Yeah, me too, I'm right there with you, bro. 2173 01:58:16.039 --> 01:58:22.760 Like apples like apples. Billy, about those Mica and Brandon. 2174 01:58:23.159 --> 01:58:25.079 Thank you so much for coming on. Like I said, 2175 01:58:25.119 --> 01:58:32.199 this book, generations, brother, generations for sure. Rough God kills 2176 01:58:32.199 --> 01:58:34.039 something else while you're up there and enjoy yourself. 2177 01:58:34.520 --> 01:58:34.960 Thank you. 2178 01:58:35.479 --> 01:58:37.880 Yeah, maybe you could talk to Brandon because he likes 2179 01:58:37.880 --> 01:58:39.720 to kill stuff too. Up there in the north, up 2180 01:58:40.039 --> 01:58:50.079 some what it is and that's all I got. 2181 01:58:52.159 --> 01:58:53.479 I can't see. Let me get up here. I gotta 2182 01:58:53.479 --> 01:58:57.520 get damn. Camera's in a bad spot. Rookie numbers, God, rooie, 2183 01:58:58.159 --> 01:59:01.439 you gotta get those numbers are two three times a day. 2184 01:59:01.479 --> 01:59:03.239 I don't know where you will be next, Chiefly, but 2185 01:59:03.520 --> 01:59:04.720 be safe in your travels. 2186 01:59:04.760 --> 01:59:05.720 You're all over the world. 2187 01:59:06.000 --> 01:59:06.840 Good for you. 2188 01:59:07.680 --> 01:59:09.760 Billy joined us with Chiefly. I'm sorry he's gonna join 2189 01:59:09.840 --> 01:59:15.840 us with the Vinnie Chiefly. He's gonna join us with Vinnie. 2190 01:59:15.840 --> 01:59:16.039 Done. 2191 01:59:16.079 --> 01:59:19.640 All right, Billy, keep the most you know, Vinny, you know, 2192 01:59:19.960 --> 01:59:20.960 like like Ed. 2193 01:59:22.479 --> 01:59:24.359 Come on, I'll ask I'll ask the Chief. Done a 2194 01:59:24.359 --> 01:59:25.239 couple of questions. 2195 01:59:25.600 --> 01:59:32.000 Yeah, all right, Yeah, you know you don't have the 2196 01:59:32.039 --> 01:59:33.560 show enough. We gotta get you on a little bit. 2197 01:59:35.840 --> 01:59:38.920 I spread it, share it, like it, you know how 2198 01:59:38.920 --> 01:59:42.479 to do it. We'll see you in two weeks until then, 2199 01:59:42.880 --> 01:59:44.680 stay long ago, all right. 2200 01:59:44.720 --> 01:59:46.920 Everybody will see it, the big one. 2201 01:59:46.159 --> 01:59:47.800 See the big one, all right, yeah, all right, just 2202 01:59:47.920 --> 02:00:00.000 have a good night everyone. Take care, yeah,